Meeting Title: navigating combating client relationships with other vendors — coffee chat Date: 2026-05-08 Meeting participants: Pranav, Greg Stoutenburg, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:14.020 ⇒ 00:00:14.940 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, Prov.
2 00:00:16.820 ⇒ 00:00:18.420 Pranav: Hello, hello, how’s it going?
3 00:00:19.640 ⇒ 00:00:20.679 Greg Stoutenburg: Dude, alright, how are you?
4 00:00:22.170 ⇒ 00:00:23.040 Pranav: You’re alright.
5 00:00:29.490 ⇒ 00:00:33.690 Greg Stoutenburg: How are things on, Eden AI right now.
6 00:00:36.680 ⇒ 00:00:48.370 Pranav: We’ll see today. I’m having my first, danny’s been kind of out of office, preoccupied with other things for, like, the last 3 weeks, so we really haven’t met for, like, 3 weeks, which is kind of crazy.
7 00:00:48.650 ⇒ 00:00:49.480 Pranav: Yup.
8 00:00:49.790 ⇒ 00:00:57.809 Pranav: But we’ve just been kind of pushing, giving async updates, and then, some of them he responds to, some of them, you know, we just don’t get any feedback on.
9 00:00:57.810 ⇒ 00:00:58.550 Greg Stoutenburg: But…
10 00:00:58.640 ⇒ 00:01:07.110 Pranav: why it’s not super concerning to me, as it was maybe, like, earlier this week, is that we got pretty good feedback, on Tuesday, I think.
11 00:01:07.430 ⇒ 00:01:11.440 Pranav: And so… and we’ll have a meeting today, so it’s probably a good sign.
12 00:01:11.830 ⇒ 00:01:12.420 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
13 00:01:12.990 ⇒ 00:01:15.780 Pranav: Yeah, so, overall, okay.
14 00:01:16.270 ⇒ 00:01:21.460 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, good. Yeah, I’ve… I’ve always found communication with those folks challenging.
15 00:01:21.730 ⇒ 00:01:25.789 Pranav: Oh, really? And are you working closely with Danny, or is this somebody else from Eden?
16 00:01:26.200 ⇒ 00:01:30.920 Greg Stoutenburg: I mean, I work… well, I haven’t worked closely with Annie, I just,
17 00:01:31.250 ⇒ 00:01:36.289 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve mostly worked with, Mitesh and Ryan over there,
18 00:01:36.770 ⇒ 00:01:43.519 Greg Stoutenburg: And now, I don’t know, I mean, like, my role with Eden has just sort of, like, it’s just changed a lot since.
19 00:01:44.360 ⇒ 00:01:55.569 Greg Stoutenburg: late January, or whenever I was asked to do some work for them. But, yeah, I don’t know, communication has always just seemed like a challenge. And just, like, very quick pivots in terms of what their priorities are at any given time.
20 00:01:56.090 ⇒ 00:01:57.350 Pranav: Yeah, yeah.
21 00:01:57.600 ⇒ 00:02:03.390 Pranav: this was definitely also scoped to benefit them in that way, where it was really, I think.
22 00:02:03.700 ⇒ 00:02:10.290 Pranav: They had, like, a direction, but other than that, we’ve been moving week to week, it feels like.
23 00:02:11.830 ⇒ 00:02:12.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
24 00:02:13.250 ⇒ 00:02:14.819 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s… that is tough.
25 00:02:15.390 ⇒ 00:02:16.060 Pranav: Yeah.
26 00:02:16.250 ⇒ 00:02:22.130 Pranav: It’s okay, I mean… it’s, par for the course, you know? Every client’s.
27 00:02:22.130 ⇒ 00:02:23.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
28 00:02:25.700 ⇒ 00:02:26.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
29 00:02:26.470 ⇒ 00:02:29.989 Pranav: Did you set up this meeting, or… I just saw it on my calendar the.
30 00:02:29.990 ⇒ 00:02:33.959 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so I arranged it at Utam’s request,
31 00:02:34.560 ⇒ 00:02:40.509 Greg Stoutenburg: there was a question that Jasmine had asked about a client saying something that sort of hinted at, like.
32 00:02:41.390 ⇒ 00:02:48.429 Greg Stoutenburg: A client hinted at… Contracting another agency to do some work that we do.
33 00:02:48.590 ⇒ 00:02:53.130 Greg Stoutenburg: And so he was like, oh, let’s have a call with delivery leads, even just 15 minutes, to, like.
34 00:02:53.290 ⇒ 00:02:57.489 Greg Stoutenburg: talk about how to handle that sort of thing. So, I was like, okay, I’ll set up the call.
35 00:02:57.990 ⇒ 00:02:59.289 Pranav: Okay, interesting.
36 00:03:01.130 ⇒ 00:03:02.439 Pranav: See if people join.
37 00:03:02.660 ⇒ 00:03:03.320 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
38 00:03:05.810 ⇒ 00:03:08.199 Greg Stoutenburg: I will just give him a bump.
39 00:03:11.190 ⇒ 00:03:15.180 Pranav: Yeah, it seems like, UTAM has been very busy as of recent.
40 00:03:16.400 ⇒ 00:03:17.540 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I think so.
41 00:03:17.660 ⇒ 00:03:21.760 Greg Stoutenburg: I was talking to him yesterday, he said that things have just been really pretty crazy in the last few weeks.
42 00:03:22.090 ⇒ 00:03:22.800 Pranav: Hmm.
43 00:03:23.560 ⇒ 00:03:30.569 Pranav: And, like, it seems like I hear, like, EY popping up a good amount, so… maybe that’s taking up a lot of the time? Not sure.
44 00:03:31.510 ⇒ 00:03:32.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
45 00:03:35.420 ⇒ 00:03:37.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, he says, okay, there we go.
46 00:03:37.860 ⇒ 00:03:38.680 Pranav: Perfect timing.
47 00:03:41.550 ⇒ 00:03:42.619 Greg Stoutenburg: Man of the hour.
48 00:03:43.890 ⇒ 00:03:46.329 Greg Stoutenburg: Nope, he didn’t hear me. Still connecting to audio.
49 00:03:48.370 ⇒ 00:03:49.950 Pranav: Man of the 10 minutes.
50 00:03:50.120 ⇒ 00:03:52.419 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s right, that’s right.
51 00:03:57.960 ⇒ 00:04:01.810 Greg Stoutenburg: In other news, yesterday I learned that a thermos that I bought,
52 00:04:02.190 ⇒ 00:04:08.420 Greg Stoutenburg: Was… is under recall, because if you leave hot food in it for too long and then try to open the lid, it can explode.
53 00:04:08.990 ⇒ 00:04:15.239 Greg Stoutenburg: I found that 30 people apparently have been, like, pretty injured from an exploding thermos.
54 00:04:15.550 ⇒ 00:04:16.190 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, Tom.
55 00:04:16.500 ⇒ 00:04:17.160 Pranav: Oh my gosh.
56 00:04:18.070 ⇒ 00:04:20.100 Greg Stoutenburg: Just telling stories.
57 00:04:22.810 ⇒ 00:04:33.849 Greg Stoutenburg: My small thermos has been recalled, because apparently if you leave hot food in it too long and you start to open the lid, it can blow off. And, like, 30 people have been… have suffered serious lacerations, it says, from…
58 00:04:33.850 ⇒ 00:04:34.670 Uttam Kumaran: have…
59 00:04:34.670 ⇒ 00:04:36.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Their thermos exploding.
60 00:04:36.160 ⇒ 00:04:37.170 Pranav: So…
61 00:04:37.580 ⇒ 00:04:41.830 Greg Stoutenburg: And that’s what I make, so… so when I go… when I ski, often I’ll, like, make chili, and then I’ll.
62 00:04:41.830 ⇒ 00:04:42.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
63 00:04:42.200 ⇒ 00:04:48.229 Greg Stoutenburg: Get up in the morning, and then, you know, lunchtime, got some chili. But shouldn’t do that with this one.
64 00:04:48.690 ⇒ 00:04:50.540 Pranav: Yeah, you might get something else, yeah.
65 00:04:52.950 ⇒ 00:04:54.779 Greg Stoutenburg: Chilly and severe bleeding. Anyway…
66 00:04:54.780 ⇒ 00:04:57.680 Uttam Kumaran: How did… how did, Caffeine day go yesterday?
67 00:04:58.060 ⇒ 00:05:03.869 Uttam Kumaran: Everybody can go around, share their caffeine story from yesterday. I had a coffee in the morning.
68 00:05:04.260 ⇒ 00:05:07.360 Uttam Kumaran: And I went to WeWork to work with Mickey and Davis.
69 00:05:07.990 ⇒ 00:05:09.660 Uttam Kumaran: I had another coffee.
70 00:05:10.480 ⇒ 00:05:12.499 Uttam Kumaran: And I had a hibiscus tea.
71 00:05:13.100 ⇒ 00:05:16.010 Uttam Kumaran: I wish I had another con… I needed one more.
72 00:05:16.250 ⇒ 00:05:21.560 Uttam Kumaran: But I was sort of locked in this booth at the WeWork, and I was like, I’ll get up in 5 minutes, and…
73 00:05:21.890 ⇒ 00:05:26.199 Uttam Kumaran: Just didn’t get up. So that’s my caffeine journey yesterday.
74 00:05:26.850 ⇒ 00:05:27.610 Pranav: Oh, man.
75 00:05:27.870 ⇒ 00:05:29.780 Pranav: I had, I had, like.
76 00:05:29.940 ⇒ 00:05:32.490 Pranav: 2 of those, or 3 of those mints.
77 00:05:32.490 ⇒ 00:05:36.049 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s… that’s a lot.
78 00:05:36.210 ⇒ 00:05:37.180 Pranav: Yeah, yeah.
79 00:05:38.200 ⇒ 00:05:53.490 Greg Stoutenburg: I had a… I had a double espresso, and then, like, a 12-ounce strip coffee out at a coffee shop. Then I came back here, and then I think I had… I think I made 2 instant coffees, like, 12 ounces or so each, and then in the afternoon, I had, Grande cold brew.
80 00:05:53.660 ⇒ 00:05:54.900 Greg Stoutenburg: From Starbucks.
81 00:05:55.270 ⇒ 00:05:56.989 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so, pretty high cash.
82 00:05:56.990 ⇒ 00:05:58.650 Uttam Kumaran: Damn.
83 00:06:00.550 ⇒ 00:06:01.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
84 00:06:01.600 ⇒ 00:06:07.700 Uttam Kumaran: Did you, like, foresee that? Was it, like, spur of the moment? Like, let’s get animated? Like, what was the…
85 00:06:07.700 ⇒ 00:06:14.339 Greg Stoutenburg: I woke up ready for some, like, good espresso, and I was like, alright.
86 00:06:14.340 ⇒ 00:06:18.649 Uttam Kumaran: I need coffee right now, and just hearing you… hearing how much coffee you have makes me.
87 00:06:18.650 ⇒ 00:06:19.020 Greg Stoutenburg: once.
88 00:06:19.020 ⇒ 00:06:20.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
89 00:06:20.960 ⇒ 00:06:25.770 Greg Stoutenburg: The other thing I’ll do sometimes, I’ll do this right now, this is just grapefruit juice. I don’t know if the lens will let it through.
90 00:06:25.770 ⇒ 00:06:28.010 Uttam Kumaran: I just thought it was maybe a whiskey in the morning, I didn’t know.
91 00:06:28.010 ⇒ 00:06:28.410 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
92 00:06:28.410 ⇒ 00:06:28.870 Uttam Kumaran: nowadays.
93 00:06:29.290 ⇒ 00:06:33.310 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, well, I mean, well, whiskey and grapefruit juice, that’s what I mean.
94 00:06:33.310 ⇒ 00:06:35.850 Uttam Kumaran: Classic grapefruit.
95 00:06:35.850 ⇒ 00:06:42.439 Greg Stoutenburg: But, like, the grapefruit juice, like, I don’t know if it’s just the fruit sugar or what, but, like.
96 00:06:42.760 ⇒ 00:06:45.110 Greg Stoutenburg: It’s like another kind of boost, so…
97 00:06:45.380 ⇒ 00:06:46.900 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. Great.
98 00:06:47.870 ⇒ 00:06:56.839 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. Okay. Okay, cool. Well, this call… I mean, we could probably save this in the vault for people to watch, but…
99 00:06:57.000 ⇒ 00:07:04.009 Uttam Kumaran: I think, Jasmine had asked a question, like, hey, there’s another vendor
100 00:07:04.120 ⇒ 00:07:10.219 Uttam Kumaran: That Element is exploring for something that seems like we could handle.
101 00:07:10.280 ⇒ 00:07:27.499 Uttam Kumaran: Like, how should we sort of deal with that? And I kind of just… let me just… I just want to get a charger. I kind of want to just do a little bit of, like, a how I see that, and then get some feedback, because this is something we deal with pretty often. I think to set the, like.
102 00:07:27.660 ⇒ 00:07:28.650 Uttam Kumaran: the…
103 00:07:29.010 ⇒ 00:07:48.709 Uttam Kumaran: Oftentimes, people get very, like, diff… like, it’s easy for consultants to get defensive in a situation like that, where you’re like, oh my god, intruder alert, these guys are, like, coming in to take my scope, like, I don’t know whether, like, I should support them, or whether we should kind of, like, fuck them, or whether we should, like.
104 00:07:48.870 ⇒ 00:07:52.719 Uttam Kumaran: Like, sort of, like, railroad everyth, like, so…
105 00:07:52.980 ⇒ 00:08:09.339 Uttam Kumaran: my, like, philosophy coming into Brainforge has always been, like, just do the honest thing, which is be supportive, and be open, and try to drive towards, like, client success. I think, ultimately, what I found is that
106 00:08:09.420 ⇒ 00:08:17.710 Uttam Kumaran: Even if they are to take on scope that we could have had, it’s actually… there’s just pie… there’s pie for everybody, basically.
107 00:08:18.660 ⇒ 00:08:24.080 Uttam Kumaran: in the moments where, like, I feel like when we didn’t have a lot of money, we were, like.
108 00:08:24.180 ⇒ 00:08:39.649 Uttam Kumaran: okay, trying to basically be like, well, it’s us versus them, things like that, and I don’t think overall that was, like, the best move. In fact, I think what you’re seeing on Element, Greg, is, like, Shivani’s asking us to help her evaluate those guys.
109 00:08:39.650 ⇒ 00:08:40.110 Greg Stoutenburg: Yup.
110 00:08:40.110 ⇒ 00:08:45.849 Uttam Kumaran: So, even in the long run, we are actually at the top of the totem pole.
111 00:08:46.430 ⇒ 00:08:53.899 Uttam Kumaran: Atomic and these guys are SaaS products, they’re not consultants, so… Yeah. They’re never gonna make it inside.
112 00:08:54.340 ⇒ 00:08:56.899 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, I feel like…
113 00:08:57.040 ⇒ 00:09:03.029 Uttam Kumaran: she has, like, a team of, like, 6 or 7 now, and, like, 2 of those people are me and Robert, like…
114 00:09:03.500 ⇒ 00:09:19.000 Uttam Kumaran: it’s hard to kind of, like, we’re not, like… you can’t… it’s gonna be hard to find some… something like us. Now, yes, like, we are charging them a lot, and, like, that probably stings for them, but, like, I also put on my Clarence hat in this moment, and I’m like…
115 00:09:19.150 ⇒ 00:09:30.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, this is… we’re really good at what we do, this is how much it costs. And like, you almost are like, where are you gonna go? Like, what… where are you gonna get
116 00:09:30.640 ⇒ 00:09:40.479 Uttam Kumaran: this type of environment with these people that are chill, like, a lot less PMO stuff, but also, like, really forward on, like, collaboration. So…
117 00:09:40.590 ⇒ 00:09:43.479 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, when there’s only one product on the shelf.
118 00:09:43.770 ⇒ 00:09:52.040 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not like we charge a million dollars, but yeah, we… I understand why we are good. And so that’s sort of how I think about, like.
119 00:09:52.330 ⇒ 00:10:11.170 Uttam Kumaran: something that comes in, like, that kind of combats us. Part of it, so kind of the net-net is, like, as long as you have a strong relationship with the client, you will be able to get the next thing that comes in. And oftentimes, the better thing you have with the client, like, the more they actually want you to take.
120 00:10:11.240 ⇒ 00:10:16.950 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think Pranav, a good example is on ABC. There’s a lot of software that actually now does what we do.
121 00:10:17.350 ⇒ 00:10:23.649 Uttam Kumaran: I think me and you both know that, like, there’s, like, CX AI tools that, like, claim to do this stuff.
122 00:10:24.410 ⇒ 00:10:34.680 Uttam Kumaran: On one hand, do you think ABC’s gonna go do, like, a vendor search? Maybe not. Do you think someone’s gonna approach them? Sure. Do you think they’re gonna approach them…
123 00:10:34.770 ⇒ 00:10:46.390 Uttam Kumaran: go into that org, understand all this mess, and actually be able to produce a solution? No. Like, who internally is gonna be the person to, like, help set up that software? Nobody. So…
124 00:10:46.620 ⇒ 00:11:02.140 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the case in where I feel less worried about getting displaced, but over time, will those software continue to get cheaper and cheaper? Yes. Like, will Google maybe release something? Yes. So that’s why we have to continue to find ways to diversify our offering.
125 00:11:02.140 ⇒ 00:11:10.720 Uttam Kumaran: and do more within a client and evolve. Like, that’s why I’m looking forward to the ADC renewal, because I think there’s opportunities for us to go do different things.
126 00:11:10.720 ⇒ 00:11:21.520 Uttam Kumaran: That’ll… that continue to express what we’re actually good at, which is, like, the strategy of it, the implementation of it, the, like, the nuance of a specific client versus, like.
127 00:11:21.540 ⇒ 00:11:23.950 Uttam Kumaran: A generalized solution.
128 00:11:24.070 ⇒ 00:11:28.730 Uttam Kumaran: And so, that’s like… my, like.
129 00:11:29.150 ⇒ 00:11:32.000 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of perspective on this a bit, but…
130 00:11:32.000 ⇒ 00:11:43.860 Pranav: Yeah, on that note, too, I… I think I totally agree, kind of like, you know, doing the honest thing is gonna be a better long-term solution, long-term, kind of…
131 00:11:44.340 ⇒ 00:11:58.890 Pranav: partnership that we’re gonna have with the clients, it’s gonna… it’s gonna support that. And I think, maybe more specifically, what we could do, which I try to do with, like, that renewal with ABC, is, okay, they have other vendors, you know, maybe they have other consulting firms.
132 00:11:58.890 ⇒ 00:12:04.700 Pranav: they’re most likely gonna have other SaaS tools and potentially, like, partners with them.
133 00:12:04.700 ⇒ 00:12:07.959 Pranav: How do you kind of take the initiative to integrate with them?
134 00:12:07.960 ⇒ 00:12:25.680 Pranav: So, right now with ABC, right, like, one issue that they have is, like, everything is siloed. And so what I’m doing with, like, this next effort is, okay, let’s integrate with all of these different platforms so that we make sure that we’re getting, you know, the entire context of… specifically for the customer service division.
135 00:12:25.730 ⇒ 00:12:37.320 Pranav: So, I think that’s a good way to think about it, too. Like, if another consulting firm is coming in to do some other AI work, just talk to the client, figure out, okay, what are they doing? How can we use that to leverage what we’re doing?
136 00:12:38.130 ⇒ 00:12:38.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
137 00:12:40.180 ⇒ 00:12:41.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay.
138 00:12:44.890 ⇒ 00:12:48.909 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, I think in the case of Element, I mean, I…
139 00:12:49.130 ⇒ 00:12:56.689 Greg Stoutenburg: it didn’t even really register to me that it was… that it was competition in the way that I would think of competition as, like, direct.
140 00:12:56.700 ⇒ 00:13:12.350 Greg Stoutenburg: Rather than just as something like, oh, that could be included in our scope. And maybe that’s just because I see the client relationship as such a good one there. Like, she just signed for a lot of money, and is conscious of that, and I think really trusts us, so,
141 00:13:12.610 ⇒ 00:13:16.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I do feel good about that one, and…
142 00:13:17.540 ⇒ 00:13:22.450 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I don’t know. I’ll, like, I’ll keep an eye on it, but I think that everything is fine there, and that.
143 00:13:22.450 ⇒ 00:13:29.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I think Jasmine’s fair to say that, because they’re like, oh, these guys are gonna do forecasting for us, why don’t we do it?
144 00:13:29.110 ⇒ 00:13:29.750 Greg Stoutenburg: Right.
145 00:13:29.750 ⇒ 00:13:32.689 Uttam Kumaran: I would go to Jasmine, I’d say, you go sell that.
146 00:13:33.510 ⇒ 00:13:34.140 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
147 00:13:34.330 ⇒ 00:13:35.509 Uttam Kumaran: They’ll sell it, then.
148 00:13:35.650 ⇒ 00:13:41.149 Uttam Kumaran: She’s gonna be open if you tell her, but also, you really think we could go do all that? Like…
149 00:13:41.610 ⇒ 00:13:42.489 Greg Stoutenburg: It’s a lot.
150 00:13:42.490 ⇒ 00:13:46.940 Uttam Kumaran: Put it up. I’m not gonna sell that, because that’s complicated, and…
151 00:13:47.960 ⇒ 00:13:57.300 Uttam Kumaran: We already just went through one negotiation, I’m not trying to do that again. So, that would be the flip side of my argument, is like, if you’ve got an option, go for it, but also, like.
152 00:13:57.960 ⇒ 00:14:03.759 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, are you the only per- you and Rob are the only people that can do pretty sophisticated forecasting around here, so…
153 00:14:03.760 ⇒ 00:14:04.350 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
154 00:14:04.870 ⇒ 00:14:09.159 Uttam Kumaran: you’re already booked. So, like, that’s… so those are all the things that kind of go through my mind, is like.
155 00:14:09.340 ⇒ 00:14:09.700 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
156 00:14:09.700 ⇒ 00:14:11.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, on some level, is it…
157 00:14:11.900 ⇒ 00:14:17.339 Uttam Kumaran: an opportunity, but can we deliver on it now? And is it, like, right in our sphere of, like.
158 00:14:17.720 ⇒ 00:14:19.060 Uttam Kumaran: we’re strong.
159 00:14:19.190 ⇒ 00:14:20.300 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.
160 00:14:20.420 ⇒ 00:14:21.490 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
161 00:14:21.490 ⇒ 00:14:21.930 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
162 00:14:21.930 ⇒ 00:14:25.399 Uttam Kumaran: So then I would push on Jasmine as a service lead, I’d be like, yeah, well.
163 00:14:25.790 ⇒ 00:14:37.439 Uttam Kumaran: I think I could sell it, if I had, like, sort of, like, what it was we needed to sell, like, what goes into it, or even a portion of their thing. Yeah, and so what you’re gonna see is, like.
164 00:14:37.990 ⇒ 00:14:45.530 Uttam Kumaran: These opportunities come left and right, but if we don’t have the play, it’s hard to… to make.
165 00:14:45.760 ⇒ 00:15:02.959 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, if we don’t know, like, oh, we have an off-the-shelf forecasting framework, it’s a 6-week framework, we can run it. Right. Like, it’s… I would have to dance and figure it out, and that’s, like, kind of, like, what we’re trying to push towards, is, like, more of these plays that we can run.
166 00:15:03.210 ⇒ 00:15:06.960 Uttam Kumaran: Because people do want to give us more work, because at that level, for Element.
167 00:15:07.090 ⇒ 00:15:18.849 Uttam Kumaran: they’re not thinking, like, they’re not like, oh, this is my money. It’s like, they have objectives as a business to accomplish. They will use their internal team, external vendors, they will use software to do it.
168 00:15:19.360 ⇒ 00:15:26.570 Uttam Kumaran: And so… Yeah, and I think coming into August, certainly we will need to start thinking about, like.
169 00:15:26.900 ⇒ 00:15:29.890 Uttam Kumaran: how do we stick around? Like, what is next for us here?
170 00:15:30.010 ⇒ 00:15:33.409 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, how do we start to make those plays?
171 00:15:33.700 ⇒ 00:15:34.280 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
172 00:15:35.070 ⇒ 00:15:35.670 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
173 00:15:35.810 ⇒ 00:15:37.259 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, that makes sense.
174 00:15:39.790 ⇒ 00:15:40.460 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
175 00:15:41.170 ⇒ 00:15:43.460 Uttam Kumaran: What else this week? What else today?
176 00:15:45.870 ⇒ 00:15:52.709 Greg Stoutenburg: For me, it’s just, I mean, it’s treading water on Eden, getting clarity on our direction with Sunstone.
177 00:15:52.910 ⇒ 00:15:58.710 Greg Stoutenburg: And, yeah, I mean… Make sure everything is okay with default.
178 00:15:58.920 ⇒ 00:15:59.310 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
179 00:15:59.310 ⇒ 00:16:05.819 Greg Stoutenburg: So, this is a… this is a pretty easy one. And then, you know, we talked about, like.
180 00:16:06.470 ⇒ 00:16:19.570 Greg Stoutenburg: not… not client-related, but the deck creator, I want to get my element framework into that. The Omni demo’s just gonna have to wait, because I’ve got a hard stop in 2 hours to drive to New Jersey for a wedding.
181 00:16:19.570 ⇒ 00:16:20.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
182 00:16:20.920 ⇒ 00:16:27.910 Greg Stoutenburg: So, I’ll… I mean, the Omni demo, I didn’t realize I actually had to, like, make a new topic and build a dashboard off of it. I kind of thought that I was just gonna, like, look.
183 00:16:27.910 ⇒ 00:16:28.430 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly.
184 00:16:28.430 ⇒ 00:16:31.720 Greg Stoutenburg: and talk through it, like, okay, this is not, this is not gonna be the, the.
185 00:16:31.720 ⇒ 00:16:32.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
186 00:16:32.350 ⇒ 00:16:38.420 Greg Stoutenburg: I was ready to just, like, open a script, and click a link, and start recording, and then just go. That’s not how.
187 00:16:38.420 ⇒ 00:16:43.900 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s good that you’re almost at the end there, like, Amber Donner, so that’s good, that’s positive. Yeah, I.
188 00:16:43.900 ⇒ 00:16:44.440 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
189 00:16:44.440 ⇒ 00:16:49.809 Uttam Kumaran: I was supposed to call them yesterday, I had to push it to next week, so hopefully by the time I call them, we’re, like.
190 00:16:50.440 ⇒ 00:16:55.039 Uttam Kumaran: Because they basically are like, you need to get people certified. So I’ll call them, like, we did it, so what do you… let’s…
191 00:16:55.040 ⇒ 00:16:56.619 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, we’re on it.
192 00:16:57.380 ⇒ 00:16:57.920 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
193 00:16:58.030 ⇒ 00:17:13.929 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. And then, yeah, on Sunstone, I called Robert, so I have to do some deep diving. I basically told him, like, I want to get him, like, to basically send out a good update there today, so I just need to catch up. And then on Eden, yeah, I’m gonna send some notes to O’ish on Zora, and looks like we’re changing to, like, this, like.
194 00:17:14.630 ⇒ 00:17:18.060 Uttam Kumaran: It’s, like, an interesting model of, like, reviewing their stuff, but, like.
195 00:17:18.060 ⇒ 00:17:18.609 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
196 00:17:18.750 ⇒ 00:17:20.410 Uttam Kumaran: Looks like… I don’t know.
197 00:17:20.680 ⇒ 00:17:24.240 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s kind of a… it’s kind of a crazy thing for us to sign up with, but…
198 00:17:24.560 ⇒ 00:17:33.880 Uttam Kumaran: fine. Like, I think, I’m gonna show Oasis and Zoran. One thing I’m seeing broadly, and then Pranava, I’d love to get, like, your update as well, is, like.
199 00:17:34.240 ⇒ 00:17:39.589 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think, like, the technical SLs are asking me for help enough.
200 00:17:39.880 ⇒ 00:17:41.900 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s really frustrating me.
201 00:17:42.050 ⇒ 00:17:48.720 Uttam Kumaran: Because Robert called me, was like, hey, a way you should put this plan in front of me on, like, this GitHub repo thing.
202 00:17:48.830 ⇒ 00:17:53.069 Uttam Kumaran: like, they have a repo, they want to push, they want to cut it over. I was like.
203 00:17:53.310 ⇒ 00:18:01.709 Uttam Kumaran: why don’t you just create a branch on our existing repo, have it be their branch, and then they pull request everything they made, and he’s like, yeah, that sounds great.
204 00:18:01.770 ⇒ 00:18:15.749 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like, why wasn’t this brought to my… like, why did I get asked about this last week? Like, you guys have been arguing about this for a week. Nobody asked me. Awish calls me, like, in the middle of the day, kind of explains the, like, problem. I’m like.
205 00:18:16.190 ⇒ 00:18:20.239 Uttam Kumaran: here’s a couple options, and I heard it from Robert today, I’m like, dude, you don’t need… so…
206 00:18:20.440 ⇒ 00:18:27.470 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I’m just, like, getting frustrated, like, people should just ask me for help, I don’t know what to do, like…
207 00:18:27.990 ⇒ 00:18:32.490 Uttam Kumaran: I… I guess, like, I have a few thoughts on, like, what I could do, but…
208 00:18:34.100 ⇒ 00:18:40.710 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I don’t… I don’t think, like, the SLs are particular… or, like, even the technical leads are particularly, like.
209 00:18:42.260 ⇒ 00:19:00.410 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I just don’t think that they’re being helpful, they’re not asking for help, like, they’re just sort of, like, saying what they think is the right way, or they’re just throwing some, like, AI doc to get… like, I read this doc from Zora, I’m like, dude, this is horrible, like, what are you sending this to Robert for? Like, you could have called me, I could have helped you in, like, 2 seconds, make this, like.
210 00:19:01.210 ⇒ 00:19:04.120 Uttam Kumaran: Much better, like, this is the dock that…
211 00:19:04.560 ⇒ 00:19:09.259 Uttam Kumaran: this is the doc that he sent. Like, here’s the handoff plan. I’m like, dude.
212 00:19:09.490 ⇒ 00:19:13.050 Uttam Kumaran: What the fuck is this? Like… It’s like…
213 00:19:13.450 ⇒ 00:19:18.069 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this has something in here, but like… I don’t know, like…
214 00:19:18.970 ⇒ 00:19:22.849 Uttam Kumaran: like, Robert basically is like, I need your out-of-office plan.
215 00:19:23.000 ⇒ 00:19:28.049 Uttam Kumaran: And this whole thing looks like AI, like, I’m like, are all these people aware?
216 00:19:28.050 ⇒ 00:19:30.050 Greg Stoutenburg: doing on Tuesday?
217 00:19:30.050 ⇒ 00:19:39.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I was like, I’m very supp… I would bet money that none of these people here have any fucking clue what you’re talking about, and… who is doing this?
218 00:19:39.880 ⇒ 00:19:43.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And, like, why is the… why you make a doc for this?
219 00:19:43.750 ⇒ 00:19:46.700 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I will say that… so he’s gonna be out of office for the next few days.
220 00:19:47.120 ⇒ 00:19:56.210 Greg Stoutenburg: And he said we’d review and stand up, which is in 20 minutes, but yeah, even so, I don’t know how I would… even with a walkthrough, I’m not sure how I would use this to,
221 00:19:56.210 ⇒ 00:19:58.009 Uttam Kumaran: No, but it’s just so sloppy.
222 00:19:58.340 ⇒ 00:20:02.710 Uttam Kumaran: So sloppy Like… So, I don’t know, that’s, like, my…
223 00:20:03.270 ⇒ 00:20:05.820 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of an extension for novel, like, the SAM,
224 00:20:05.960 ⇒ 00:20:21.809 Uttam Kumaran: like, not, like, really Vichy for help, so, like, I don’t know what you guys think, like, how… what I can do. I can’t meet with these folks every day, but… and so I’m, like, begging them, like, just raise something when you don’t know how it works, and, like, let’s brainstorm together, you know?
225 00:20:22.070 ⇒ 00:20:22.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
226 00:20:23.640 ⇒ 00:20:26.610 Pranav: Yeah, so, I mean, how I’ve been kind of operating with
227 00:20:26.620 ⇒ 00:20:44.379 Pranav: what is it, for the last 2 weeks, since kind of Utam, me, and you talked, like, that one Sunday, is I’ve just been kind of taking responsibility as CSL and SL, right? I think I’m using it as, I’m CSO, SL, and then, what Sam does, today, like.
228 00:20:44.380 ⇒ 00:20:59.290 Pranav: he has, like, great technical, like, acumen, right? Like, he has, like, a lot of experience, and it comes through, like, when in conversation. Yeah. Like, when, Mustafa, like, today, Mustafa’s running some issue, he, like.
229 00:20:59.290 ⇒ 00:21:11.339 Pranav: gave some options to Mustafa, like, okay, how can we diagnose this further? Right? And it’s, like, something that would have taken me more time to figure out. He just knew it on spot, right? It’s like, how do we leverage that skill more?
230 00:21:11.340 ⇒ 00:21:11.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
231 00:21:11.970 ⇒ 00:21:15.420 Pranav: That’s how I’m trying to figure that out.
232 00:21:15.870 ⇒ 00:21:21.879 Pranav: Because… For me, I just, you know, I… I’m able to…
233 00:21:21.880 ⇒ 00:21:22.610 Uttam Kumaran: scared.
234 00:21:23.050 ⇒ 00:21:29.069 Pranav: Maybe, yeah. And what I can do a good job of, too, is, like.
235 00:21:29.130 ⇒ 00:21:48.080 Pranav: I think it’s really easy to overcomplicate things, and then I can just kind of cut through it and be like, hey, this is all you need to do. Or if I can… I can make the quick decision of, like, okay, that sounds too technically complex, where can we compromise a little bit so I can just, like, cut through the technical complexity immediately? And, you know, we can work with the deliverable that that gives.
236 00:21:48.320 ⇒ 00:21:49.630 Pranav: However…
237 00:21:50.070 ⇒ 00:22:00.909 Pranav: you know, there’s gonna be cases where, like, you have to have a very technically complex… Yes. …solution, and, I can do that, of course, it just takes more time.
238 00:22:01.220 ⇒ 00:22:06.299 Pranav: Yeah, I mean, that’s just, like, what’s going through my head, like, I’m literally just… I’m just thinking about that every single day.
239 00:22:07.600 ⇒ 00:22:12.219 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, do you think it’d be helpful for me to, like, meet with these guys and be like, bring…
240 00:22:12.880 ⇒ 00:22:18.070 Uttam Kumaran: whatever hairy technical problem you’re working on, and I do, like, almost, like, a review.
241 00:22:18.390 ⇒ 00:22:23.130 Uttam Kumaran: Like, if they’re not going… if they’re not gonna… and… or, like, you guys submit, like.
242 00:22:23.250 ⇒ 00:22:25.420 Uttam Kumaran: This thing looks like it’s slow.
243 00:22:25.790 ⇒ 00:22:27.719 Uttam Kumaran: Submit it on the agenda.
244 00:22:28.380 ⇒ 00:22:28.960 Uttam Kumaran: Likewise.
245 00:22:28.960 ⇒ 00:22:30.349 Pranav: Somewhere else, I’ll say…
246 00:22:30.350 ⇒ 00:22:34.159 Uttam Kumaran: you’re not giving me this answer on this GitHub thing, cool, that’s an agenda item.
247 00:22:34.420 ⇒ 00:22:42.910 Uttam Kumaran: like, 10 minutes… I literally called around 5 minutes, I, like, had the answer, and he’s like, oh, word, that sounds like it’ll work. I’m like, yeah, it’s gonna work, this is just how this works.
248 00:22:43.880 ⇒ 00:22:54.359 Pranav: I would say, like, for the last 2 weeks, I’ve been… how I’ve been doing it is, in the call, I have 2 calls with them every single day. So I have a morning call and a, like, an evening call with them.
249 00:22:54.370 ⇒ 00:23:04.430 Pranav: Morning call is like, okay, this is… I just assign stuff. This is what we’re doing every single day. And then, you know, today it was only 8 minutes long, so it’s usually pretty quick. Cool.
250 00:23:04.450 ⇒ 00:23:18.879 Pranav: But then, you know, sometimes it’s like picking up work from the day before, and I’m like, okay, what’s the progress on this? And then I’m always asking, hey, what’s the blocker? And then what we do is, like, if there’s a blocker, then we just figure it out in that call. So it’s not like, oh, oh, that’s a blocker.
251 00:23:18.880 ⇒ 00:23:21.009 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. You guys get that.
252 00:23:21.010 ⇒ 00:23:25.909 Pranav: I’m just like, okay, like, today I’m just like, Mustafa, share your screen, let’s all talk through it, let’s talk about, like, what we can do.
253 00:23:27.910 ⇒ 00:23:35.489 Pranav: Now, I’m just thinking, though, like, okay, that’s an hour a day on just stand-ups, right? I do two 30-minute.
254 00:23:35.490 ⇒ 00:23:37.609 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
255 00:23:37.860 ⇒ 00:23:42.650 Pranav: That’s… well, it’s not just me an hour, it’s an hour for the team, so it’s 4 hours spent.
256 00:23:44.140 ⇒ 00:23:57.490 Pranav: That’s just… but that’s just a solution that’s worked so far, because before, in the past, you know, things kept on getting delayed, I didn’t know status on things, people were working in directions where they, you know, just unfocused, basically. Yeah, so that needs to be probably fixed.
257 00:23:57.780 ⇒ 00:24:12.179 Pranav: And so maybe I was thinking, maybe starting next week, doing more, like, async updates in the morning, and then I can just track, okay, does this sound like it’s a blocker? Does this sound like, you know, we’re moving at the… at a speed that makes sense? And then I can just…
258 00:24:12.380 ⇒ 00:24:14.430 Pranav: Potentially have ad hoc meetings?
259 00:24:14.430 ⇒ 00:24:15.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
260 00:24:15.060 ⇒ 00:24:17.320 Pranav: But…
261 00:24:17.590 ⇒ 00:24:22.060 Pranav: I don’t know, the team has been very productive, right? Like, in the last two weeks, I felt.
262 00:24:22.060 ⇒ 00:24:36.749 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I think actually, like, removing… yeah, I think this decision with Sam was good. I also think, yeah, you’re… you have that challenge with, like, he can overcomplicate and think of a solution that’s just way too big for something that’s, like, pretty narrow.
263 00:24:36.930 ⇒ 00:24:38.470 Uttam Kumaran: I also think that
264 00:24:38.860 ⇒ 00:24:44.680 Uttam Kumaran: like, a good way for you to do is, like, dude, tickets should not take more than, like, 3-4 hours, like…
265 00:24:44.990 ⇒ 00:24:53.659 Uttam Kumaran: what’s really on… what really could be doing that. Right. I also feel you in that, like, yeah, that’s, like, an hour of stand-ups, but…
266 00:24:54.240 ⇒ 00:24:58.459 Uttam Kumaran: This is where, like, some teams, it just works like that, and maybe…
267 00:24:58.460 ⇒ 00:25:07.150 Pranav: If we get the work done in the right amount of hours, then if we’re spending an hour on stand-ups, maybe that’s just what we need to do to make the rest of the time more efficient.
268 00:25:07.150 ⇒ 00:25:19.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but then this is where, as for me, as a leader, I want to kind of eradicate, like, stand-ups, because I’m like, everybody needs to have agency to sort of just, like, say what their issue is. Like, stand-ups are… are a,
269 00:25:20.070 ⇒ 00:25:36.620 Uttam Kumaran: byproduct of people just not, like, communicating that well, but I… that’s, like… for me, that’s, like, a journey. I don’t know, like, I can… I can… I can’t say that, remove it, and the company goes under, because we didn’t do stand-ups. Like, I am very… I’m, like, also pretty practical, but I also think, like.
270 00:25:36.900 ⇒ 00:25:45.199 Uttam Kumaran: that’s on me to say, okay, does Pranav… Pranav probably needs, like, a right hand… Like, technical lead.
271 00:25:45.360 ⇒ 00:25:46.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I…
272 00:25:46.780 ⇒ 00:25:58.039 Uttam Kumaran: that I… you know, we kept trying, we tried. I’m trying, I think I have someone. Like, I feel like Arish is probably… could probably do that. Yeah. Like, and…
273 00:25:58.300 ⇒ 00:26:17.790 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we have a chance with some of the people that are joining for you to be like, yo, you’re my right hand on the technical side, you go run stand-ups, me and you do a 15-minute every day, I gotta go do playbooks and just, like, move on other stuff. So I’m… so I’m gonna keep… I’m gonna attack that every way that I’m trying to attack that.
274 00:26:17.830 ⇒ 00:26:19.159 Uttam Kumaran: But I also think…
275 00:26:19.810 ⇒ 00:26:26.230 Uttam Kumaran: don’t be quick to remove it if it’s working. Like, if it’s working, maybe it’s just the way it is for now. Yeah.
276 00:26:26.630 ⇒ 00:26:32.110 Uttam Kumaran: And I think, Greg, you’re probably in the same spot on some clients, where it’s just good to catch up once a day.
277 00:26:33.260 ⇒ 00:26:37.900 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, I… so, I, in general, you know, I,
278 00:26:38.010 ⇒ 00:26:45.740 Greg Stoutenburg: I believe in agency and trying to, you know, give the team the opportunity to exercise, well, you know, their expertise, and
279 00:26:45.900 ⇒ 00:26:55.150 Greg Stoutenburg: And I think we stay in Slack… stay in touch in Slack, effectively. We don’t do daily stand-ups, and I think, to now, that’s been working.
280 00:26:55.380 ⇒ 00:27:00.470 Greg Stoutenburg: I could see that changing on Element.
281 00:27:00.470 ⇒ 00:27:00.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
282 00:27:00.860 ⇒ 00:27:05.109 Greg Stoutenburg: Because the supply chain work is… it’s really comprehensive.
283 00:27:05.240 ⇒ 00:27:15.869 Greg Stoutenburg: Default, I think it’s been fine how it is, in this way. And then, you know, with my automations that pull stale tickets and ask for updates and move milestones.
284 00:27:15.970 ⇒ 00:27:20.110 Greg Stoutenburg: So, yeah, but I’m… Well, just…
285 00:27:20.110 ⇒ 00:27:22.610 Uttam Kumaran: Greg, on Element, you have…
286 00:27:23.240 ⇒ 00:27:29.870 Uttam Kumaran: me on ingestion, you have Jasmine on… like, you kind of have a good team, right? So you kind of have people that you’re, like.
287 00:27:30.020 ⇒ 00:27:36.679 Uttam Kumaran: you can trust will not only execute the thing, but then give you the update. Pranav doesn’t have that.
288 00:27:36.950 ⇒ 00:27:38.390 Uttam Kumaran: On his side.
289 00:27:38.590 ⇒ 00:27:39.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
290 00:27:39.350 ⇒ 00:27:42.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
291 00:27:42.600 ⇒ 00:27:53.050 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, why not? So… so what is it, Pranav? Like, what are they… what are they not doing? Like, are they just, like… when they don’t know something, do they just kind of, like, suffer in silence, and you have to squeeze it out of them?
292 00:27:53.760 ⇒ 00:27:55.960 Pranav: I think it’s a little bit of that, yeah.
293 00:27:56.350 ⇒ 00:27:56.870 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
294 00:27:56.870 ⇒ 00:27:58.470 Pranav: Not maybe…
295 00:27:58.760 ⇒ 00:28:05.940 Pranav: I think it’s easy for AI work to always think, okay, this could be the fix, this could be the fix, and just work independently, but then…
296 00:28:05.960 ⇒ 00:28:20.640 Pranav: like, I fall into that same trap too, right? Where I’m just like, oh, it could be this, let me just try that, it could be that, and then a day passes by, two days passes by. So, like, I understand it because I’ve been there. However, the right thing to do is…
297 00:28:20.640 ⇒ 00:28:26.290 Pranav: immediately when something doesn’t work as you expected it to work, is just to raise a flag. Especially since…
298 00:28:26.290 ⇒ 00:28:32.190 Pranav: my job, like, for what I’m doing right now, is to help you through that.
299 00:28:32.640 ⇒ 00:28:36.439 Pranav: Engineers are used to working individually. Like, that’s…
300 00:28:36.560 ⇒ 00:28:41.289 Pranav: They’re usually just used to, like, getting a ticket and then just pushing on that ticket.
301 00:28:41.410 ⇒ 00:28:47.060 Pranav: And so I think it’s something where it’s like, with AI engineering, it’s like, we’re trying to move so quickly.
302 00:28:47.320 ⇒ 00:28:47.810 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
303 00:28:47.810 ⇒ 00:28:53.780 Pranav: You need to, like, if something’s, like, stopping you, like, every single minute that you’re blocked is actually, like, super valuable.
304 00:28:53.780 ⇒ 00:28:57.379 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you’re speaking to, like, how I feel, because I am, like…
305 00:28:58.540 ⇒ 00:29:02.860 Uttam Kumaran: You sent me an update earlier, it’s been 6 hours. Did you just, like…
306 00:29:03.200 ⇒ 00:29:15.940 Uttam Kumaran: Did you just, like, ship the entire application, or have you… is there nothing? Like, where… what? Like, I… like… and I, like, live blog, like, every… I, like, send tons of slacks, because it helps me show my work.
307 00:29:15.940 ⇒ 00:29:24.290 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, I want to be an example to, like, the benefits of showing your work. You get feedback, and then things get better, and, like, you get camaraderie, like…
308 00:29:24.410 ⇒ 00:29:29.670 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m fine, and, like, I… I still think, like, I don’t…
309 00:29:29.810 ⇒ 00:29:40.170 Uttam Kumaran: I still… yeah, I want to almost bias… we’re gonna try to keep biasing towards… like, we’re… I guess, put it another way, we’re not going for engineers that are just, like, the silent type anymore.
310 00:29:40.170 ⇒ 00:29:40.690 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
311 00:29:40.690 ⇒ 00:29:42.689 Uttam Kumaran: It’s all people that are, like.
312 00:29:43.350 ⇒ 00:30:00.799 Uttam Kumaran: like, vocal, opinionated. Ideally, they also have a SKU. Unless they… if they have a SKU that’s, like, charismatic, then they’re great, they can go towards, like, CSO or SL. If they’re, like, a little bit less, then they need to be, like, a 100X engineer, basically.
313 00:30:00.950 ⇒ 00:30:09.809 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you know, where they’re, like, really, really motivated to go. So, I think you’re gonna see a change.
314 00:30:09.950 ⇒ 00:30:28.000 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think, Greg, like, Nikhil, who’s coming on, on the data side, is, like, pretty vocal. Arish, like, seems like he’s gonna be pretty vocal. So I think, Pranam, maybe, like, as some of these… for you guys, as some of these guys join, we see how they can kind of support you both.
315 00:30:28.160 ⇒ 00:30:33.250 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, you can mold them from, like, the day one to be, like, your right hand for stuff.
316 00:30:35.160 ⇒ 00:30:52.969 Uttam Kumaran: And then ideally, again, like, you’re gonna… you can go play more of the, like, client game, the overall, like, communication, and then, like, yeah, on… on, like, how are we thinking about selling more and things like that, so… Yeah, I think some of the new… some of the hires coming, like, should assist with this.
317 00:30:54.080 ⇒ 00:30:54.610 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
318 00:30:54.930 ⇒ 00:30:55.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
319 00:30:55.290 ⇒ 00:30:55.790 Pranav: Cool.
320 00:30:58.800 ⇒ 00:30:59.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
321 00:30:59.960 ⇒ 00:31:00.560 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool.
322 00:31:02.390 ⇒ 00:31:05.550 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I think for now we have a call, or… do we?
323 00:31:06.320 ⇒ 00:31:07.930 Pranav: We had a call 17 minutes ago.
324 00:31:07.930 ⇒ 00:31:09.620 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
325 00:31:09.620 ⇒ 00:31:11.509 Pranav: hop into that, I don’t know if.
326 00:31:11.510 ⇒ 00:31:13.129 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s hop into that, and then, yeah.
327 00:31:13.130 ⇒ 00:31:14.000 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Okay.
328 00:31:14.360 ⇒ 00:31:15.050 Uttam Kumaran: Alright.
329 00:31:15.050 ⇒ 00:31:16.910 Greg Stoutenburg: See you guys. Thanks. Bye.