Meeting Title: EOM Service Line Reviews - A.I Service Date: 2026-05-08 Meeting participants: Brylle Girang, Uttam Kumaran, Pranav
WEBVTT
1 00:00:23.080 ⇒ 00:00:24.049 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dude.
2 00:00:24.320 ⇒ 00:00:25.050 Brylle Girang: Hello?
3 00:00:29.330 ⇒ 00:00:30.489 Pranav: Hello, hello!
4 00:00:31.140 ⇒ 00:00:31.990 Uttam Kumaran: Hello.
5 00:00:33.350 ⇒ 00:00:36.689 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I think, yeah, I feel like…
6 00:00:37.550 ⇒ 00:00:41.310 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll kind of share a little bit of how I’m thinking about,
7 00:00:41.820 ⇒ 00:00:54.539 Uttam Kumaran: the service, and… maybe, yeah, just kind of get your thoughts, Pranav, on, like, how things changed, like, the last two months. I mean, a couple things. So, one is, like, to give you some broader perspective, and this is something that, like.
8 00:00:54.710 ⇒ 00:00:57.940 Uttam Kumaran: sort of talking to Greg about, talking to Amber about, is…
9 00:00:58.060 ⇒ 00:01:08.480 Uttam Kumaran: I think a lot of the work coming down the pipe is actually going to be a lot less of, like, the, come on and build me an AI
10 00:01:08.920 ⇒ 00:01:16.639 Uttam Kumaran: tool… As much as it is, come on and help us figure out what we should build.
11 00:01:16.950 ⇒ 00:01:21.510 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, an AI strategy, and, like, a proof-of-concept-first mindset, like…
12 00:01:21.900 ⇒ 00:01:28.390 Uttam Kumaran: basically kind of like the opposite of, like, a Lilo, where we don’t lead with,
13 00:01:29.520 ⇒ 00:01:33.870 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not leading with, we’re gonna build you something pretty quick. We lead with, like.
14 00:01:34.410 ⇒ 00:01:37.709 Uttam Kumaran: How does your company think about, like, context engineering?
15 00:01:37.820 ⇒ 00:01:46.559 Uttam Kumaran: Like, how does your company think about security? Like, can we go in and identify, like, certain use cases? I think,
16 00:01:46.940 ⇒ 00:01:52.459 Uttam Kumaran: this group is gonna look a lot like folks like you, Greg, Amber.
17 00:01:53.210 ⇒ 00:01:58.279 Uttam Kumaran: kind of looking for people with a few skill sets combined. One is certainly, like.
18 00:01:58.400 ⇒ 00:02:10.870 Uttam Kumaran: ability to work directly with clients. The second thing is the ability… is, like, themselves having a really strong understanding of using AI, building AI systems, using AI for knowledge work.
19 00:02:11.039 ⇒ 00:02:24.620 Uttam Kumaran: And then the third is, like, almost like a product manager mindset, where this group is able to prototype stuff quickly and, like, demonstrate that things are possible for clients in order to win additional work.
20 00:02:24.970 ⇒ 00:02:31.309 Uttam Kumaran: I think part of the shift in strategy is…
21 00:02:31.740 ⇒ 00:02:40.820 Uttam Kumaran: Just due to, like, the market wasn’t open to a lot of that a year ago, and so we developed this, like, development-first thing where, like, we’ll just build you what you want.
22 00:02:41.130 ⇒ 00:02:46.860 Uttam Kumaran: When, in fact, we’re finding that the success of those things actually requires a strategy.
23 00:02:46.980 ⇒ 00:02:50.710 Uttam Kumaran: And we weren’t in the capacity to sell that.
24 00:02:50.860 ⇒ 00:02:58.560 Uttam Kumaran: Or we just failed to. And so that’s, like, how I see this… service changing?
25 00:02:59.000 ⇒ 00:03:10.879 Uttam Kumaran: I think there’s, like, I’m predicting there’s gonna be a little bit, like, more change, but I just wanna, like, preface this conversation with, like, that’s how I think this is headed, is a lot more people that are, like.
26 00:03:11.310 ⇒ 00:03:17.840 Uttam Kumaran: Me, where it’s, like, a higher level strategy, and then we bring on, like, a development team to just develop what we need.
27 00:03:18.020 ⇒ 00:03:20.030 Uttam Kumaran: Put another way, I think, like.
28 00:03:20.720 ⇒ 00:03:30.849 Uttam Kumaran: I actually don’t know as much as, like, Casey, Sam, like… Mustafa, like, I think AI engineer…
29 00:03:31.170 ⇒ 00:03:38.460 Uttam Kumaran: is that they’re actually… I think they’re just full-stack engineers, and they’re building AI functionality But…
30 00:03:38.770 ⇒ 00:03:47.110 Uttam Kumaran: AI engineering, I almost reserve for, like, someone like Davis, who I think you should try to grab, like, even some time with, or, like, an Arish.
31 00:03:47.280 ⇒ 00:03:50.630 Uttam Kumaran: Where these guys are, like, 100X. Like…
32 00:03:51.230 ⇒ 00:03:55.430 Uttam Kumaran: They’re shipping, like, they’re shipping, like, entire products.
33 00:03:55.550 ⇒ 00:03:58.770 Uttam Kumaran: In, like, a few weeks’ time, single-handedly.
34 00:03:59.030 ⇒ 00:04:06.429 Uttam Kumaran: And… I can kind of go into, like, how we’re getting those people, and how I’m…
35 00:04:07.270 ⇒ 00:04:11.700 Uttam Kumaran: like, goals I’m setting for those folks, but I also… I almost think there’s, like.
36 00:04:12.160 ⇒ 00:04:15.099 Uttam Kumaran: Two class of engineer now, the company.
37 00:04:15.380 ⇒ 00:04:19.190 Uttam Kumaran: I think you just have, like, engineers that are fast.
38 00:04:19.310 ⇒ 00:04:22.390 Uttam Kumaran: And they maybe use Kersher and stuff?
39 00:04:22.760 ⇒ 00:04:27.000 Uttam Kumaran: And then you have people who never look at, like, a line of code, like…
40 00:04:27.140 ⇒ 00:04:30.340 Uttam Kumaran: They’re certainly just, like, only in open code, like.
41 00:04:30.540 ⇒ 00:04:32.410 Uttam Kumaran: And testing and back in loop.
42 00:04:33.190 ⇒ 00:04:37.680 Uttam Kumaran: And… some of the folks from the left may move.
43 00:04:38.040 ⇒ 00:04:39.640 Uttam Kumaran: Some won’t.
44 00:04:40.180 ⇒ 00:04:44.299 Uttam Kumaran: And also, like, We will be getting people that are in both.
45 00:04:44.480 ⇒ 00:04:52.220 Uttam Kumaran: But certainly, you won’t be surprised to hear that the right side is, like, the more valuable, more, like, exclusive group.
46 00:04:52.620 ⇒ 00:04:59.639 Uttam Kumaran: So, that’s, like, how… this… Service line is gonna change a bit.
47 00:05:02.140 ⇒ 00:05:19.169 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, that’s, like, that’s what I wanted to chat this week, kind of, a little bit about, is, like, that’s a change. I don’t know… there’s not an immediate, like, next step, but, like, kind of sharing a little bit about how I’m thinking about the strategy of, like, the AI group in general, because that is… ultimately, we’re able to now sell that strategy work.
48 00:05:19.540 ⇒ 00:05:23.670 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s a lot less… Development, yeah.
49 00:05:24.530 ⇒ 00:05:36.059 Pranav: how does a contract like that work? Like, is there still a SOW? Or is it really just like, hey, we’re coming in and we’re gonna find something? It just ends up being, like, a partnership?
50 00:05:38.360 ⇒ 00:05:46.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think that’s a great question. We’re kind of figuring out. I think for… honestly, a lot of these come in as, like, maybe we come in and we help you scope something.
51 00:05:47.050 ⇒ 00:05:52.770 Uttam Kumaran: Or, like, we come in and we just do, like, kind of expensive hourly until we find an opportunity.
52 00:05:53.040 ⇒ 00:05:56.849 Uttam Kumaran: But really, there’s people that are just calling us, like, we just need…
53 00:05:57.450 ⇒ 00:06:01.729 Uttam Kumaran: Like, frankly, what’s happening is people are, like, calling me, and, like, we need you for help.
54 00:06:01.870 ⇒ 00:06:06.050 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, okay, who can I bring alongside?
55 00:06:06.680 ⇒ 00:06:21.279 Uttam Kumaran: to actually come into a company and kind of, like, look around and identify opportunities, speak about how it’s been in our business to adopt AI, like, be very anecdotal, but also arrive at, like, okay, there’s, like.
56 00:06:21.410 ⇒ 00:06:28.120 Uttam Kumaran: there’s, like, a Slack app over here. There’s, like, some type of workflow thing over here, like, looking around.
57 00:06:28.290 ⇒ 00:06:32.870 Uttam Kumaran: And then, ultimately, I think a lot of the work On that.
58 00:06:33.130 ⇒ 00:06:35.539 Uttam Kumaran: goes to those, like, 100x people.
59 00:06:35.940 ⇒ 00:06:42.650 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s probably, like, one engineer or two, like, maybe that group is more of a team that, like.
60 00:06:42.830 ⇒ 00:06:45.230 Uttam Kumaran: Just executes whatever comes in.
61 00:06:45.500 ⇒ 00:06:51.439 Uttam Kumaran: And actually, the product of those people who are at the strategy level are actually able to build some of that even themselves, you know?
62 00:06:51.730 ⇒ 00:06:57.280 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s how I think this is changing. In the… in our company.
63 00:06:57.690 ⇒ 00:07:03.780 Uttam Kumaran: like, the only people that come to mind that I think can fit that are, like.
64 00:07:04.440 ⇒ 00:07:12.360 Uttam Kumaran: Amber, Greg, and you. I don’t think there’s anybody else who I would feel comfortable with walking into a room
65 00:07:12.950 ⇒ 00:07:21.309 Uttam Kumaran: Like, let’s say we were to go walk into Kraft Heinz, like, boardroom, and talk to, like.
66 00:07:21.410 ⇒ 00:07:23.999 Uttam Kumaran: their group about AI adoption.
67 00:07:24.230 ⇒ 00:07:28.720 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t bring… But I don’t have… we don’t… there’s nobody else.
68 00:07:29.220 ⇒ 00:07:33.090 Uttam Kumaran: That being said, I also think each of you has, like.
69 00:07:33.460 ⇒ 00:07:45.760 Uttam Kumaran: ways that you guys need to improve to, like, fit that mold, which is, like, all three of those need to be true. Like, you have to have, like, the charisma, and, like, the, like, okay, I could walk into any whatever.
70 00:07:45.900 ⇒ 00:07:58.799 Uttam Kumaran: Second is, like, you kind of have to also understand, like, what it’s like to use skills, ship skills, like, what was your transformation into AI, and whatever your SKU… whatever your SKU was.
71 00:07:59.140 ⇒ 00:08:06.020 Uttam Kumaran: And then you have to have this, like, prototype ability. Like, I can whip something together to show proof of life.
72 00:08:06.170 ⇒ 00:08:13.479 Uttam Kumaran: things like that. And I think between you, Amber, and Greg, I feel like you all hit, like, two of those, for the most part.
73 00:08:14.010 ⇒ 00:08:19.190 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, that is how this group is gonna, like, change a bit.
74 00:08:19.470 ⇒ 00:08:23.620 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t… again, like, I don’t know on what time frame, but…
75 00:08:23.950 ⇒ 00:08:32.200 Uttam Kumaran: we are… we basically are kind of immediately changing our recruiting strategy on AI to fit either those… one or two of those profiles.
76 00:08:32.570 ⇒ 00:08:38.629 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re no longer hiring, like.
77 00:08:39.240 ⇒ 00:08:43.890 Uttam Kumaran: If you’re an AI engineer, you are, like, one of those 110-100X people.
78 00:08:43.990 ⇒ 00:08:48.350 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I saw in Arish, right? I see that in Davis.
79 00:08:49.000 ⇒ 00:08:51.889 Uttam Kumaran: Where I’m seeing that in Mustafa, right?
80 00:08:52.170 ⇒ 00:08:59.560 Uttam Kumaran: like, relentless. Like, I also think Mustafa has… needs to kind of, like, level up a bit, but, like.
81 00:08:59.870 ⇒ 00:09:01.730 Uttam Kumaran: Relentless drive?
82 00:09:01.960 ⇒ 00:09:05.339 Uttam Kumaran: And just like, yo, you have a week, like, I need this whole thing end-to-end.
83 00:09:05.800 ⇒ 00:09:10.260 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s one thing. The second role is this, like, AI strategist.
84 00:09:11.100 ⇒ 00:09:18.949 Uttam Kumaran: That person needs to be an all-in-one. Like, you need to be able to sell, you need to be able to talk about the solution, and prototype.
85 00:09:19.270 ⇒ 00:09:22.280 Uttam Kumaran: Also, like, kind of a, like, unique skill set.
86 00:09:23.570 ⇒ 00:09:33.260 Uttam Kumaran: We will continue to do, like, Blake, more normal, like, builds and stuff like that, and for that, we’ll have, kind of, classic product managers, blah blah blah.
87 00:09:33.650 ⇒ 00:09:39.189 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, this is how… because I’ve been having a struggle understanding, like.
88 00:09:39.380 ⇒ 00:09:42.830 Uttam Kumaran: these people all exist now within our company, and I’m like.
89 00:09:43.850 ⇒ 00:09:54.990 Uttam Kumaran: we’re getting asked for work where I’m like, I can’t pull from certain people to do this, and I’m like, these are different roles, you know? So that’s kind of, like, what I’ve arrived at this week, that…
90 00:09:55.160 ⇒ 00:10:02.640 Uttam Kumaran: I’m, like, I circulated to Amber and Greg, and I’m circulating to you now, and I’ll give you a sense of, like, how I’m thinking about the future a little bit.
91 00:10:03.950 ⇒ 00:10:04.510 Pranav: Okay.
92 00:10:05.710 ⇒ 00:10:06.600 Pranav: Yeah.
93 00:10:07.810 ⇒ 00:10:13.249 Pranav: That’s… that’s interesting. I kind of, yeah, I got that kind of, like, from your messages, too, like, in Slack, so, like, I… I kind of was…
94 00:10:13.400 ⇒ 00:10:16.739 Pranav: expecting it, but it’s, like, good to hear.
95 00:10:17.130 ⇒ 00:10:25.910 Pranav: Yeah, I guess we’ll just kind of see how that goes, right? Like, because, yeah, that contract thing, too, is like, okay, what is it actually going to look like? Am I going to be spending…
96 00:10:27.270 ⇒ 00:10:32.770 Pranav: Because it almost makes sense, right, if you’re… if you’re going to be that 100X person.
97 00:10:33.000 ⇒ 00:10:45.770 Pranav: You should spend all… because then if you just spend one or two days with, like, on a client’s… on a client’s work, you could probably bang out a whole… whole project plan,
98 00:10:46.870 ⇒ 00:10:48.010 Pranav: But then…
99 00:10:48.370 ⇒ 00:10:57.939 Pranav: what we’re kind of doing is we’re doing everything fractional, right? Like, based on what I’m supposed to be doing, I’m supposed to be spending 10… 10 hours on ABC, 10 hours on Eden.
100 00:10:57.940 ⇒ 00:10:58.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
101 00:10:58.330 ⇒ 00:11:04.470 Pranav: 20 hours of something else. That really doesn’t play in well with trying to…
102 00:11:04.970 ⇒ 00:11:07.020 Pranav: be that 100X person, I think.
103 00:11:07.220 ⇒ 00:11:08.150 Pranav: Yeah.
104 00:11:08.390 ⇒ 00:11:17.630 Pranav: to consistently… I think to do a good job of that, you really need to keep on diving deeper, diving deeper. So it almost makes sense to be kind of, like.
105 00:11:18.360 ⇒ 00:11:19.689 Pranav: More focused on just.
106 00:11:19.690 ⇒ 00:11:20.190 Uttam Kumaran: I’m wild.
107 00:11:20.190 ⇒ 00:11:20.730 Pranav: I’m thinking.
108 00:11:20.900 ⇒ 00:11:21.620 Pranav: Yeah.
109 00:11:21.620 ⇒ 00:11:27.149 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. So, like, kind of that’s also something that I have to think about how we’re gonna do.
110 00:11:27.500 ⇒ 00:11:31.139 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I will tell you, like.
111 00:11:32.550 ⇒ 00:11:37.280 Uttam Kumaran: Like, this is a… it’s sort of a role that doesn’t exist in the market.
112 00:11:37.900 ⇒ 00:11:43.030 Uttam Kumaran: because it’s, like, kind of, like, a unique role. I think Brainforge.
113 00:11:43.270 ⇒ 00:11:51.990 Uttam Kumaran: I would be surprised to think if the three of you guys thought that you were at this point when you joined, but I think we do a good job at, like.
114 00:11:52.270 ⇒ 00:12:08.969 Uttam Kumaran: adding that skill set on, like, here’s learning a little bit of the sales side. Learn a bit about, like, the prototyping side. Here’s all the AI skill set, right? So, I don’t… I don’t believe in my ability… like, we’re not gonna find these folks on the street, but I’ll find, like, people with one or two, and I’m like.
115 00:12:09.090 ⇒ 00:12:13.009 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll fill in the… I’ll help you… we’ll invest and fill in the rest.
116 00:12:13.450 ⇒ 00:12:23.549 Uttam Kumaran: But in addition, because of how tough, like, because this is a pretty unique role, like, the rates we’re getting and the commercial, terms are better.
117 00:12:23.670 ⇒ 00:12:27.590 Uttam Kumaran: Which means, like, we can start to have people that are focused on just one.
118 00:12:28.150 ⇒ 00:12:31.330 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s always what I’ve been driving towards, like.
119 00:12:32.050 ⇒ 00:12:43.910 Uttam Kumaran: is to move away from, like, this fractional sense. Part of it has been tough, just because, like, we’ve only now gotten into contract sizes that allow for that.
120 00:12:44.070 ⇒ 00:12:45.860 Uttam Kumaran: Second,
121 00:12:46.420 ⇒ 00:13:01.369 Uttam Kumaran: we just didn’t have the right people, for a long time that I felt that could actually partner with the business and drive business, right? And, like, actually come alongside Robert and I. There’s a lot of people in the company who are, like, still just, like, taking instruction.
122 00:13:01.580 ⇒ 00:13:02.820 Uttam Kumaran: And…
123 00:13:03.520 ⇒ 00:13:21.179 Uttam Kumaran: we… that was most of the company for a long time. Until now, I feel like between you, Greg, Amber, at least on the strategies, I feel confident that, like, walk in a room and we’ll just kind of, like, mosey around. I don’t have to be like, go do this one next, go do this one next, right? But,
124 00:13:21.710 ⇒ 00:13:26.300 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, we only have 3 of those people, like, on me. And so…
125 00:13:26.560 ⇒ 00:13:44.429 Uttam Kumaran: And certainly, we’re understaffed on, like, those 100X kind of engineers. So part of this is, like, we’re gonna figure it out. I don’t know… I think I will have sort of, like, a final decision on all this by the end of the month, on, like, how this is gonna change, but we are actively selling deals that look like this, that are, like.
126 00:13:44.580 ⇒ 00:13:55.230 Uttam Kumaran: just come in and, like, help us with strategy for a bit. That may be going to a client, that may be putting together prototypes, putting together game plans, like, roadmaps.
127 00:13:55.460 ⇒ 00:13:56.420 Uttam Kumaran: Which is…
128 00:13:56.950 ⇒ 00:14:04.370 Uttam Kumaran: fairly easy, like, I think in net-net. The tough part is to do all… to, like, be good at all those things, right?
129 00:14:04.640 ⇒ 00:14:08.710 Uttam Kumaran: To be… and then also to go be able to sell.
130 00:14:08.890 ⇒ 00:14:12.810 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s where I think, like, Greg, for example, I think Greg is good at, like.
131 00:14:12.980 ⇒ 00:14:16.149 Uttam Kumaran: I think Greg has the kind of schmooze charisma.
132 00:14:16.330 ⇒ 00:14:25.429 Uttam Kumaran: But Greg doesn’t have the technical depth, but has picked up enough AI in the last, like, 4 or 5 months to talk about how his work has transformed.
133 00:14:25.530 ⇒ 00:14:31.189 Uttam Kumaran: Alternatively, like, Amber, I think she’s, like, super, super driven.
134 00:14:31.310 ⇒ 00:14:33.780 Uttam Kumaran: Certainly doesn’t have, like, the sales side.
135 00:14:34.200 ⇒ 00:14:36.949 Uttam Kumaran: This also still could work a bit more on, like.
136 00:14:37.460 ⇒ 00:14:40.480 Uttam Kumaran: Just being a human in front of people, and like.
137 00:14:40.630 ⇒ 00:14:44.339 Uttam Kumaran: Not just going directly at the problem, but is like an animal, like…
138 00:14:44.480 ⇒ 00:14:53.329 Uttam Kumaran: has the product management chops, the, like, she can rip through prototypes. I think on your side, too, you have the… out of the three, you have the deepest technical depth.
139 00:14:53.570 ⇒ 00:15:00.870 Uttam Kumaran: I also think you’re seeing, like, how to run and organize a team, and you’re very thoughtful, but then I think
140 00:15:00.910 ⇒ 00:15:12.689 Uttam Kumaran: you need to learn the sales of it all, which is, like, how do I articulate this into a commercial… into commercial terms? How do I drive alignment on commercial terms? How do I get ahead of that? So you see how, like…
141 00:15:12.720 ⇒ 00:15:25.460 Uttam Kumaran: you can say I’m wrong about that, but that is my view of everybody in the room, which is not like, oh, you don’t have that, like, talk to you later. It’s like, no, I wanna… I need… I will give you… I have to give you that. We have to give you that.
142 00:15:25.680 ⇒ 00:15:32.239 Uttam Kumaran: And so… I’m… Long story short, I’m thinking of how to move
143 00:15:33.120 ⇒ 00:15:35.639 Uttam Kumaran: That group into something, and like…
144 00:15:36.260 ⇒ 00:15:43.419 Uttam Kumaran: we go and we do this. It’s gonna take me a little bit, I don’t even know, end of month seems so close to now.
145 00:15:44.100 ⇒ 00:15:50.990 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, this is sort of, like, what I’m, sort of thinking about broadly.
146 00:15:52.570 ⇒ 00:15:53.240 Pranav: Okay.
147 00:15:53.360 ⇒ 00:16:02.160 Pranav: Yeah, I mean, it sounds exciting. I mean, one thing, like… I wouldn’t call them, like.
148 00:16:02.320 ⇒ 00:16:06.119 Pranav: failures, but, like, with AI, kind of like some of the projects, like.
149 00:16:06.540 ⇒ 00:16:13.789 Pranav: Lilo, like, you know, client was not happy, right? There… we can debate whether, you know, if it was…
150 00:16:13.790 ⇒ 00:16:14.240 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, sure.
151 00:16:14.240 ⇒ 00:16:24.159 Pranav: definitely, like, give and take on both sides, on our side and their side, like, them expecting just too much. But there’s definitely things, like, if we’re operating how we’re operating now.
152 00:16:24.550 ⇒ 00:16:38.239 Pranav: you know, I think they would be less upset, you know, but who knows? With ABC2, like, they are just really nice people, and they do appreciate that me, like, I’m on top of things, I join a bunch of meetings, I’m very proactive about things.
153 00:16:38.310 ⇒ 00:16:45.499 Pranav: But, honestly, like, what I stepped into was… the project was not, like…
154 00:16:46.040 ⇒ 00:16:51.850 Pranav: I think what, like, we’re solving that issue, but it was not… the discovery process wasn’t good.
155 00:16:52.080 ⇒ 00:16:59.060 Pranav: Because the product that we ended up deciding, hey, we’re gonna do this, set us up for failure. Because, like…
156 00:16:59.190 ⇒ 00:17:13.609 Pranav: having all of these departments that we’re tackling, not even thinking about using the transcripts to figure out what we’re gonna be adding to the central doc at first, I think it would be really just like, hey, you have this document? Okay, boom, throw it into… throw it into our central doc. Like…
157 00:17:13.869 ⇒ 00:17:19.319 Pranav: We need to be a lot more strategic up front, because if we’re not, then it just.
158 00:17:19.329 ⇒ 00:17:19.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
159 00:17:20.359 ⇒ 00:17:21.109 Pranav: the project.
160 00:17:21.119 ⇒ 00:17:22.199 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, luckily.
161 00:17:22.460 ⇒ 00:17:36.359 Pranav: It’s too hard of a fire, because it’s like, I think the worst thing for a client to, like, hear is, like, oh, we didn’t think of that before, let’s, like, let’s roll back, you know? And I never am gonna say that, because it just makes me sound dumb.
162 00:17:36.360 ⇒ 00:17:37.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
163 00:17:37.350 ⇒ 00:17:53.619 Pranav: the way I do it is, like, okay, I just think about, okay, like, this is what we can do now that sounds like, okay, it’s a… sounds attractive to the client too, but I also know, like, what we’re doing is supporting, like, fixing, like, the holes from the past. I’m just saying this kind of, like, just so, like, you know, like, how I’m thinking about it.
164 00:17:53.620 ⇒ 00:17:54.060 Uttam Kumaran: That’s weird.
165 00:17:54.520 ⇒ 00:17:56.510 Pranav: for, like, how…
166 00:17:56.810 ⇒ 00:18:07.409 Pranav: I see this system working in the future, which is, like, yeah, maybe we have, like, one engineer, like, just me, or for a different client, Amber,
167 00:18:08.190 ⇒ 00:18:14.630 Pranav: we just go and just, like, completely just, like, crawl over the organization. We understand, like, okay, these are all.
168 00:18:14.630 ⇒ 00:18:15.319 Uttam Kumaran: of the different people.
169 00:18:15.320 ⇒ 00:18:19.869 Pranav: Information, and make that our full-time job for, like, a week.
170 00:18:20.060 ⇒ 00:18:29.109 Pranav: And then by Friday, we have amassed all of this information, and then we can more confidently, like.
171 00:18:29.630 ⇒ 00:18:31.110 Pranav: Scope out, like.
172 00:18:31.620 ⇒ 00:18:47.300 Pranav: the project. And honestly, even me saying that is like, I don’t like working in a silo like that, because I’m prone to, like, I’m going to make… I’m gonna not see something in the right way. It might even make more sense for maybe me, Amber, and Greg on that same client for 20 hours per week.
173 00:18:47.300 ⇒ 00:18:47.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
174 00:18:48.320 ⇒ 00:18:50.259 Pranav: Crawl the entire organization. Have conversations.
175 00:18:50.260 ⇒ 00:18:57.259 Uttam Kumaran: But I will tell you, like, my job then, like, think about how much money I have to go get to get you guys all staffed.
176 00:18:57.580 ⇒ 00:19:03.399 Uttam Kumaran: So, that is the transition that we’re going through right now, is like, I am selling…
177 00:19:03.400 ⇒ 00:19:04.210 Pranav: You got it?
178 00:19:04.850 ⇒ 00:19:05.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
179 00:19:05.370 ⇒ 00:19:10.730 Pranav: Yeah. How I would think about it is, like, this is a one-week investment, which then I think.
180 00:19:11.180 ⇒ 00:19:12.830 Pranav: We do that, and then go.
181 00:19:12.830 ⇒ 00:19:21.410 Uttam Kumaran: No, dude, I’m gonna get us in for 4 weeks. I’m gonna get us in for, like, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, where we go deep, and we set, like, a two-year, like…
182 00:19:21.410 ⇒ 00:19:22.190 Pranav: That’s even better.
183 00:19:22.620 ⇒ 00:19:25.300 Pranav: Well, so then, what I’m thinking is, like.
184 00:19:25.520 ⇒ 00:19:38.340 Pranav: we only need one to two weeks to really dive in, and then we can… so it’s like front-loading the hours, and then the last two weeks, it’s like, things are very clear to us. So then, when the things are clear, it’s very simple, and I think…
185 00:19:38.570 ⇒ 00:19:43.270 Pranav: It takes a very low amount of hours for us to actually execute on the plan.
186 00:19:44.540 ⇒ 00:19:45.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yep.
187 00:19:46.090 ⇒ 00:19:48.359 Pranav: Like, that’s… That’s what I think…
188 00:19:49.300 ⇒ 00:19:51.530 Pranav: That’s what makes sense to me.
189 00:19:54.680 ⇒ 00:19:55.490 Pranav: Yeah.
190 00:19:56.860 ⇒ 00:19:57.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I…
191 00:19:59.130 ⇒ 00:20:13.089 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s still… I think I… yeah, I agree. Like, the problem is, is, like, the work that we’ve done so far in AI, just… it’s how we… how development services always work. Like, you come in, and there’s this kind of a… an idea.
192 00:20:13.660 ⇒ 00:20:22.420 Uttam Kumaran: You rarely… only recently, like, in the last year, have we started to get stuff where we’re coming in, we’re actually forming… like, we’re starting with a heavy discovery.
193 00:20:22.570 ⇒ 00:20:26.929 Uttam Kumaran: Which is actually how all the bigger firms work. You do, like, a month or two of discovery.
194 00:20:27.350 ⇒ 00:20:33.110 Uttam Kumaran: Now, the jam we’re in, though, is we’re asking… we’re being asked to do discovery.
195 00:20:33.270 ⇒ 00:20:39.069 Uttam Kumaran: and help, but not even discover. We’re being asked to say, like, we need an AI strategy.
196 00:20:40.050 ⇒ 00:20:47.650 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I… for me, the jam is I’m, like, looking at our organization, Who is talented enough
197 00:20:47.820 ⇒ 00:20:52.579 Uttam Kumaran: To walk into a room, talk about a subject that’s only been a subject for, like.
198 00:20:52.990 ⇒ 00:20:58.590 Uttam Kumaran: A few years, and maybe in people’s professional career, they’ve only been using it for a year or two.
199 00:20:59.500 ⇒ 00:21:06.840 Uttam Kumaran: Go in and, like, Both do the business side, do the technical side, and, like, build those relationships.
200 00:21:06.940 ⇒ 00:21:09.509 Uttam Kumaran: And then come out of it with, like.
201 00:21:10.030 ⇒ 00:21:16.709 Uttam Kumaran: actually, like, a robust game plan, there’s not that many people in our organization that do that. Like.
202 00:21:17.060 ⇒ 00:21:21.929 Uttam Kumaran: like, and this is where even, like, Robert can sell that, but he knows that, like.
203 00:21:22.480 ⇒ 00:21:24.060 Uttam Kumaran: I’m the only person
204 00:21:24.190 ⇒ 00:21:29.879 Uttam Kumaran: that can go in and, like, see all that. And so that’s why I’m like, who else can I bring?
205 00:21:30.010 ⇒ 00:21:39.520 Uttam Kumaran: But also, like, I will be really frank, like, that group needs to get paid more, that group needs to kind of be, like, in its own, like…
206 00:21:40.730 ⇒ 00:21:47.380 Uttam Kumaran: Something, like… because, you know, if you’re around people that are lagging, or not in that same
207 00:21:47.960 ⇒ 00:21:57.409 Uttam Kumaran: vibe, like, it’s not that great. So those are the kind of mechanics of this thing. And then also, it’s like, look, we still have, like, other… we still have clients, so…
208 00:21:57.870 ⇒ 00:22:03.930 Uttam Kumaran: that’s sort of, like, what I’m juggling, is I’m like, okay, do we turn those off? Do we take them?
209 00:22:04.230 ⇒ 00:22:06.939 Uttam Kumaran: Do we, like, hand them to somebody else?
210 00:22:07.700 ⇒ 00:22:12.719 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, I have to… I’m trying to figure all this out this month, because…
211 00:22:13.450 ⇒ 00:22:21.210 Uttam Kumaran: We’re doing a good job in market, At getting into those rooms, And I also need…
212 00:22:21.450 ⇒ 00:22:25.590 Uttam Kumaran: Ultimately, what I also need of this team is to help us go sell more of that.
213 00:22:25.710 ⇒ 00:22:36.419 Uttam Kumaran: So part of this is, like, I want to take some of the time, like, let’s say the Eden AI thing slows down or stops, I want to take your time, and I’m like, dude, help me build out, like.
214 00:22:36.840 ⇒ 00:22:49.540 Uttam Kumaran: these decks, and, like, help us build out some of these offers, and, like, help Lisa generate some case studies, so, like, we have a great basket of things, because we’re actively pitching, right? So, I want to kind of shift you guys to almost, like.
215 00:22:50.050 ⇒ 00:23:00.229 Uttam Kumaran: this team should basically build the team, like, I’m kind of… that’s why Davis and Mustaf are on platform, because I’m starting to get… I want them to build all the things we can go demo.
216 00:23:00.580 ⇒ 00:23:16.130 Uttam Kumaran: partly, we’re gonna use it, but also, I’m like, okay, the Slack assistant has to work, the work product has to work, like, all these things, because when we walk into a meeting, that’s what we’re gonna show. It’s like, here’s… we built it for ourselves, it’s the best demo ever. So that’s how I’m thinking about shifting
217 00:23:16.830 ⇒ 00:23:20.889 Uttam Kumaran: Time a little bit to, like, basically try to bootstrap this, like, new group.
218 00:23:21.750 ⇒ 00:23:27.219 Uttam Kumaran: And there’s a lot of opportunity, like, coming for this.
219 00:23:27.560 ⇒ 00:23:31.540 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s a tougher… I think it’s like a… it’s a different… it’s a…
220 00:23:31.910 ⇒ 00:23:44.700 Uttam Kumaran: more… it’s, like, probably less of what we’ve done so far, it’s more of, like, this, like, I want this group to be, like, really strategic, and then we hand it… we hand… we almost have, like, a dev team does the dev stuff approach.
221 00:23:44.950 ⇒ 00:23:50.010 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And that’s kind of, like, what I’m rolling with.
222 00:23:51.350 ⇒ 00:23:54.620 Pranav: Sounds… yeah, I mean, I like that. I think,
223 00:23:55.730 ⇒ 00:24:04.059 Pranav: I don’t know. And yeah, I’m thinking kind of, like, solutions, you can kind of tell me of, like, how, like, oh, that’s not feasible. But…
224 00:24:04.310 ⇒ 00:24:21.480 Pranav: Another thing that we could do too, right, is like, okay, we need someone to actually manage the actual implementation as well, right? So I need to kind of still be, hey, talking to Sam, talking to Mustavo, talking to Casey, like, once we’ve actually scoped out a project, them implementing it, making sure we’re on track, like, things.
225 00:24:21.480 ⇒ 00:24:24.249 Uttam Kumaran: But see, I don’t even know. I don’t even know if that’s you.
226 00:24:24.690 ⇒ 00:24:27.759 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what if I just put a product manager under you?
227 00:24:28.400 ⇒ 00:24:29.100 Uttam Kumaran: So, I…
228 00:24:29.100 ⇒ 00:24:30.000 Pranav: Yeah, well.
229 00:24:30.000 ⇒ 00:24:35.420 Uttam Kumaran: I’m telling you, the more valuable thing is, like, Staying at the top.
230 00:24:35.880 ⇒ 00:24:36.710 Pranav: So, normal.
231 00:24:36.710 ⇒ 00:24:51.550 Uttam Kumaran: money we can make, the more I can be like, okay, if you have a… if you have the relationship, then I’m like, you just need, like, a development team. And so, like, how can I give you that? Like, every option’s on the table. Like, I want us to really think hard about this. I don’t want to fall into, like.
232 00:24:52.030 ⇒ 00:25:08.189 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want all of us to do… really, literally do everything. Like, I can’t even… I can’t even be at this ground level anymore, because there’s so much happening where we can go into these companies and do that work, but if we’re literally looking at, like, code, it’s not, like, a good use of our time.
233 00:25:09.040 ⇒ 00:25:09.690 Pranav: Yeah.
234 00:25:11.430 ⇒ 00:25:18.080 Uttam Kumaran: Because we’re… like, the skill set we bring to the table is the fact that we can do all those three, right?
235 00:25:18.630 ⇒ 00:25:24.940 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and that’s, like, actually what we’re trying to monetize, that’s the expertise, versus, like.
236 00:25:25.030 ⇒ 00:25:41.589 Uttam Kumaran: doing all those three, and then also doing the bottom thing. I mean, again, part of it is, like, I’ve always pushed trying everybody to be more full stack, because we just… I feel like we could do it now, and we’re in a jam, but for this level of strategy work that I’m talking about, it’s, like, we’ll be a little bit more intense.
237 00:25:41.810 ⇒ 00:25:45.489 Uttam Kumaran: Not just, like, producing roadmaps and things, it’ll be, like.
238 00:25:45.620 ⇒ 00:25:55.910 Uttam Kumaran: really sitting and doing whiteboarding and, like, trying to think through, like, a lot of plans, and so that’s sort of, like, how I’m thinking about going after this.
239 00:25:56.600 ⇒ 00:26:08.950 Pranav: Yeah, and I think what it needs to be is it has to be more of, like, collaboration, right? Right now, with, like, how I think about road planning, it’s like, it’s really just me, and then I present it, or send it to you and Robert.
240 00:26:08.950 ⇒ 00:26:18.379 Pranav: Which makes sense for you and Robert, like, because you guys have other stuff to do, but for me, Greg, and Amber, I think it needs to be a lot more collaborative. Like, it needs to be, like.
241 00:26:18.710 ⇒ 00:26:27.720 Pranav: having meetings, and then they’re having meetings with potentially other people in the organization, or the same people, and then we fight to figure out what is the project plan.
242 00:26:27.960 ⇒ 00:26:30.700 Pranav: And so, I just…
243 00:26:31.080 ⇒ 00:26:34.739 Pranav: maybe that’s just me, I work better that way, but I also just think most people.
244 00:26:34.740 ⇒ 00:26:49.130 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, I do too, dude, but this is where, like, I’m tired of being around folks that are, like, dropping the ball. I can’t… it’s, like, such a cancer to my brain. So, I want to be around people who are 100x in whatever their role is.
245 00:26:49.310 ⇒ 00:26:56.559 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to go get all of the money, because you can’t… and I want to show that there’s not a team on Earth like us.
246 00:26:57.960 ⇒ 00:27:09.309 Uttam Kumaran: if it’s writing JavaScript, someone else will figure that out, will figure that out. Like, someone will figure that out, you know? So, like, this group of us needs to spend more time together.
247 00:27:09.540 ⇒ 00:27:19.299 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, maybe I can start doing, like, at least one session a week where this group kind of talks. We think through, like, okay, if you’re gonna… if we’re gonna take
248 00:27:19.420 ⇒ 00:27:36.780 Uttam Kumaran: a few hours each to try to, like, work on this service, or work on this, like, new team. What could I get help with? What sales conversations am I in? Who wants to… does anyone want to come with me to those? Like, things like that. Like, I think that would really give me a lot of energy to keep driving this forward.
249 00:27:37.010 ⇒ 00:27:43.429 Uttam Kumaran: And then you’re gonna see, like, our AI recruiting strategy is moving towards, like, this model. So I feel comfortable getting just
250 00:27:43.570 ⇒ 00:27:46.470 Uttam Kumaran: People that are full-stack that can do normal stuff.
251 00:27:46.780 ⇒ 00:27:52.109 Uttam Kumaran: But I think, like, this group, it needs to be kind of elite, like, I don’t know, I just… it needs to be people who are, like.
252 00:27:52.750 ⇒ 00:27:58.050 Uttam Kumaran: Like, Davis, I’m like, I need you to just rebuild this Slack assistant, like, you have until Friday.
253 00:27:58.120 ⇒ 00:28:12.850 Uttam Kumaran: And we built a shitload of stuff that he’s gonna send through today that’s, like, rockin’, and I was like, cool. And I’m gonna get them to turn into, like, a software factory-type mindset, where they’re working on, like, end-to-end products on a weekly basis.
254 00:28:13.000 ⇒ 00:28:24.199 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Yeah. And getting them… how do you build a development environment where a single person can ship full-stack applications in days? And I’m like, you guys need to think about that.
255 00:28:24.360 ⇒ 00:28:29.500 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, I can… but I feel… I feel healthy driving that team hard.
256 00:28:29.640 ⇒ 00:28:32.369 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because I know they’re… they’re… they’re, like.
257 00:28:32.560 ⇒ 00:28:44.810 Uttam Kumaran: they’re really good, right? Similar for you, Amber Gray, I know I can… I can really set expectations super high, because ultimately, I want to go to a client and be… and get that money, and go do this, like, elite work.
258 00:28:44.950 ⇒ 00:28:46.460 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s… but, like…
259 00:28:46.590 ⇒ 00:28:51.929 Uttam Kumaran: we can’t have any, like, gaps, basically, you know? And we can’t have people that are, like.
260 00:28:52.210 ⇒ 00:29:07.149 Uttam Kumaran: insecure, and we can’t people that high. Like, we need the best group of basically the vocal people, people that are, like, forward, the people that are like, I don’t like that idea, I like this idea, you know what I mean? Like, people with the most agency in the company.
261 00:29:07.370 ⇒ 00:29:16.309 Uttam Kumaran: And you’re gonna see, like, for example, if someone pulls up on the marketing side that has a lot of agency, I’m like, cool, a lot of our clients want marketing AI support. Could join. So, like.
262 00:29:16.430 ⇒ 00:29:19.600 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of gonna try to build this group that’s, like.
263 00:29:20.160 ⇒ 00:29:26.619 Uttam Kumaran: kind of gonna take a lot of that discovery strategy work, that’s all gonna be AI-focused.
264 00:29:28.490 ⇒ 00:29:29.080 Pranav: Okay.
265 00:29:29.540 ⇒ 00:29:41.109 Pranav: Cool. Yeah, I mean, as you’re saying this too, like, I’m thinking about what structure would make sense to me, right? Because now I had some experience, kind of like, with CSOSL, like, how that’s worked.
266 00:29:41.110 ⇒ 00:29:41.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
267 00:29:42.970 ⇒ 00:29:47.669 Pranav: And you’re talking about kind of, like, having a PM, and I think instead of a PM, we can just…
268 00:29:47.960 ⇒ 00:29:51.049 Pranav: like, I’m just thinking of Arish, right? Because, you know, Arish we all liked.
269 00:29:51.590 ⇒ 00:29:55.730 Pranav: I would feel confident about just, like, hey, this is what we need to create.
270 00:29:56.870 ⇒ 00:29:57.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, then that’s it.
271 00:29:58.240 ⇒ 00:30:05.609 Pranav: have, like, a 15-minute call, technical approach, then I’m just like, okay, bro, let me know how it goes by Friday.
272 00:30:05.610 ⇒ 00:30:12.469 Uttam Kumaran: Well, can I tell you another thing that I did? I basically wrote, like, an entire plan. Like, for example, I spent an hour, I wrote an entire, like.
273 00:30:13.080 ⇒ 00:30:15.929 Uttam Kumaran: like, 10-phase plan for the Slack assistant.
274 00:30:16.070 ⇒ 00:30:31.970 Uttam Kumaran: I said, your job is to get to Phase 5 by Friday. I know everything in there, like, I did a ton of research into, like, the best frameworks, whatever, the PRD, I did a doc review, it was pretty good. And I’m like, cool, here’s, like, I need you to get to Phase 5 by Friday.
275 00:30:32.590 ⇒ 00:30:38.509 Uttam Kumaran: Where it’s almost their… more of their problem is, like, just getting it done well and accurately.
276 00:30:38.770 ⇒ 00:30:43.010 Uttam Kumaran: Because I can… I can put the requirements together. I don’t need you to tell me, like.
277 00:30:43.150 ⇒ 00:30:48.740 Uttam Kumaran: Do you want it to, like… do you want it to, like, re… yeah, I know the features I want.
278 00:30:48.870 ⇒ 00:31:00.550 Uttam Kumaran: So get these, these are the features, and I would like this dismount by Friday. Which means, by Thursday, we need to test, and by Wednesday, you kind of need to let me know whether we’re gonna hit Friday.
279 00:31:00.980 ⇒ 00:31:07.500 Uttam Kumaran: Go. That’s what I did on Monday. That’s literally what I did on Monday. I called Masafa and David, said, you’re… this is the mission.
280 00:31:07.660 ⇒ 00:31:17.450 Uttam Kumaran: Mustafa, you need to get the work product, these are the three phases that need to work. Davis, here’s, like, there’s an entire long-running PRD that I’ve had for Slack Assistant, I made it through Phase 1.
281 00:31:17.710 ⇒ 00:31:19.880 Uttam Kumaran: I need you to take it to the distance. Go.
282 00:31:20.230 ⇒ 00:31:24.319 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like… Call me, or whatever, when you need help.
283 00:31:24.800 ⇒ 00:31:27.290 Uttam Kumaran: That worked really, really well, you know?
284 00:31:29.270 ⇒ 00:31:30.070 Pranav: Yeah.
285 00:31:31.550 ⇒ 00:31:34.810 Pranav: Yeah, I like that, like that type of handoff.
286 00:31:36.100 ⇒ 00:31:41.390 Pranav: And I guess that is, like, the CSO SL type of… structure, right?
287 00:31:41.730 ⇒ 00:31:48.620 Uttam Kumaran: It almost is like… removes… it’s just, like, there’s no SL, because the…
288 00:31:48.910 ⇒ 00:31:55.479 Uttam Kumaran: Person at the top is both the account manager, product manager, and
289 00:31:55.720 ⇒ 00:32:09.150 Uttam Kumaran: is AI enough to form, like, the first PRD? The person getting handed off is also able… is also, like, kind of a tech lead, and engineer, and, like, DevOps, and that.
290 00:32:09.210 ⇒ 00:32:18.030 Uttam Kumaran: And then you can let me be the ultimate, like, how do both of these teams kind of sandwich on top? But then, for me, what I’m thinking, I’m like, okay, then I need to hire someone who’s, like.
291 00:32:18.350 ⇒ 00:32:21.629 Uttam Kumaran: who is, like, the ultimate leader of, like, that HunterX group?
292 00:32:21.960 ⇒ 00:32:25.069 Uttam Kumaran: Is what I’m, like, I have to figure out next. I don’t know.
293 00:32:25.340 ⇒ 00:32:31.710 Uttam Kumaran: never… I don’t know who could do that. And then, the next thing is, like, yeah, who wants to lead this, like.
294 00:32:32.000 ⇒ 00:32:39.019 Uttam Kumaran: strategy group, or how do we sort of move that? How many… actually, more of my point is, like, how many people can I move into that? Like, who else is a…
295 00:32:39.200 ⇒ 00:32:42.070 Uttam Kumaran: who else at Brain Forge looks like they can get there?
296 00:32:42.450 ⇒ 00:32:50.679 Uttam Kumaran: Because this is the team that I think is gonna bill the most, and, like, actually work on the coolest shit, but it needs to be, like, super tight. Like…
297 00:32:51.330 ⇒ 00:32:57.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it needs to be, like, super, super tight. Yeah.
298 00:32:59.750 ⇒ 00:33:04.679 Uttam Kumaran: So, but part of this is, like, a transition, like, I don’t know when, but this is how I’m, like.
299 00:33:04.810 ⇒ 00:33:13.389 Uttam Kumaran: pushing in, like, I have kind of, like… I’ve talked into all, like, leadership, and, like, I’ve talked to a couple people, and, like, this is kind of, like, how things are going.
300 00:33:13.630 ⇒ 00:33:16.669 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve talked to Kayla, so we’re shipping or recruiting to this.
301 00:33:17.010 ⇒ 00:33:20.849 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, for example, Bryle is taking first rounds for AI.
302 00:33:21.110 ⇒ 00:33:26.479 Uttam Kumaran: Because I’m like, yo, people gotta know what skills are, are they not joining this, like…
303 00:33:26.770 ⇒ 00:33:28.790 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s not gonna work out, like…
304 00:33:28.920 ⇒ 00:33:36.179 Uttam Kumaran: I want people that are, like, a reach where they’re like, yeah, I’m, like, maintaining this, like, big open source reef. Like, clearly he’s, like, on it.
305 00:33:36.780 ⇒ 00:33:43.000 Uttam Kumaran: And then for them, they decide, like, look, if some people come on… like, there’s some people who are, like, really AI-forward, but then…
306 00:33:43.560 ⇒ 00:33:44.920 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe they’re, like.
307 00:33:45.050 ⇒ 00:33:49.949 Uttam Kumaran: they’re never gonna… they just don’t have a background in engineering to become that, like, 100X, like…
308 00:33:50.070 ⇒ 00:33:54.550 Uttam Kumaran: maybe then I just need to show them, sort of, like, what the path is to the strategy work.
309 00:33:54.650 ⇒ 00:33:58.959 Uttam Kumaran: And ultimately, they’re gonna be a great partner for the 100x people.
310 00:33:59.240 ⇒ 00:34:01.770 Uttam Kumaran: There are also some people that just need to burrow, like.
311 00:34:01.980 ⇒ 00:34:06.160 Uttam Kumaran: just need to… and so, part of this is actually… it gives me a little bit of…
312 00:34:06.390 ⇒ 00:34:11.539 Uttam Kumaran: It gives me an opportunity to get those, like, no-face engineers, but they have to be, like.
313 00:34:11.679 ⇒ 00:34:13.650 Uttam Kumaran: So cracked out of their mind.
314 00:34:15.699 ⇒ 00:34:21.389 Uttam Kumaran: You know, like, Davis was literally like, dude, can I just, like, work all through the weekend? I was like, yeah, whatever.
315 00:34:21.989 ⇒ 00:34:23.479 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like, that’s like…
316 00:34:23.959 ⇒ 00:34:28.239 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the mindset where it’s like, push it, push it, push it, push it, you know?
317 00:34:28.989 ⇒ 00:34:37.449 Uttam Kumaran: And then I feel comfortable with this group also showing, like, my vision for, like, where I think AI can head, like, what are interesting things for us to pitch, like…
318 00:34:37.599 ⇒ 00:34:40.959 Uttam Kumaran: And this group really becoming good, because ultimately, like.
319 00:34:41.059 ⇒ 00:34:44.809 Uttam Kumaran: The stuff we learn, we’ll disseminate down to the rest of the group.
320 00:34:44.949 ⇒ 00:34:51.109 Uttam Kumaran: But this is sort of how I’m, like, thinking about things. Because there’s an opportunity right now in the market, especially after Bixel.
321 00:34:51.429 ⇒ 00:34:54.739 Uttam Kumaran: That, like, I don’t think our traditional structure can serve.
322 00:34:56.689 ⇒ 00:35:02.439 Uttam Kumaran: like, if I were to ask you to go do one of those, you’d be held back by, like, our traditional structure.
323 00:35:02.619 ⇒ 00:35:07.139 Uttam Kumaran: And… I don’t know. It’s like…
324 00:35:07.699 ⇒ 00:35:09.549 Uttam Kumaran: I have to figure it out, kind of, this month.
325 00:35:11.030 ⇒ 00:35:11.660 Pranav: Okay.
326 00:35:12.550 ⇒ 00:35:16.269 Pranav: Also… One thing that’s, like…
327 00:35:17.120 ⇒ 00:35:26.520 Pranav: concerns me, right, is with, you know, Eden AI, maybe there’s some traction now since Danny’s responded, and he said, oh, like, it looks great.
328 00:35:26.880 ⇒ 00:35:35.209 Pranav: But before then, I was like, okay, they’re… like, it just seems like they’re gonna end. ABC is like… I’m talking to Yvette, and like, for the first time, like, last week, she was like.
329 00:35:35.440 ⇒ 00:35:43.220 Pranav: you know, I’m seeing these different things, like, they did an Andy survey, and, like, some people weren’t, like, super happy with Andy and, like, the output.
330 00:35:44.930 ⇒ 00:36:02.589 Pranav: But then… but then, like, you know, you were saying, like, in the meeting right before this, like, you know, people are just, like, always calling, and, like, they’re willing to kind of just, like, sign up with us. Is that, like, they’re at the door, and we’re just, like, we don’t have the resources, or… and, like, you just kind of keep them there? Or is it, like, they’re just interested, and we just, like, haven’t, like, started to, like, talk to them yet?
331 00:36:03.430 ⇒ 00:36:05.430 Uttam Kumaran: For, like, open deals.
332 00:36:05.970 ⇒ 00:36:06.710 Pranav: Yeah.
333 00:36:08.710 ⇒ 00:36:11.960 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… it’s a mix of both. There’s some people who I’m, like.
334 00:36:12.490 ⇒ 00:36:14.649 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know whether I can service this.
335 00:36:14.980 ⇒ 00:36:15.940 Pranav: I… Hmm.
336 00:36:15.940 ⇒ 00:36:19.089 Uttam Kumaran: Until this week, I hadn’t called you guys and been like.
337 00:36:20.410 ⇒ 00:36:31.509 Uttam Kumaran: hey, if I need to go… let’s say… let’s say, like, there’s a client in New York that’s like, I want you to come in the office and do, like, a bunch of workshops, when can we start?
338 00:36:31.980 ⇒ 00:36:33.180 Uttam Kumaran: What do I do?
339 00:36:34.160 ⇒ 00:36:35.040 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
340 00:36:35.370 ⇒ 00:36:38.900 Uttam Kumaran: But what is Robert… and Robert’s like, I can sell this, what do you want to do?
341 00:36:39.330 ⇒ 00:36:42.410 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s on me to figure out what is the delivery structure.
342 00:36:42.690 ⇒ 00:36:52.279 Uttam Kumaran: But I will tell you, even if both of those clients go… don’t go, I don’t… don’t worry about it. Like, that’ll give you more time to help me go figure this new thing out.
343 00:36:52.530 ⇒ 00:36:58.709 Uttam Kumaran: So, I… on one hand, I’m actually, like, this… it’s a bet on my… it’s my personal bet.
344 00:36:58.980 ⇒ 00:37:08.039 Uttam Kumaran: that our company needs to shift towards this mindset, and less of, like, the old development of, like, an AI chatbot mindset.
345 00:37:08.140 ⇒ 00:37:21.949 Uttam Kumaran: I would love to continue to develop great stuff for those clients, but they are not the client that I’m focused on right now. I’m focused on a couple class… the class of clients that I’m thinking about is, like, Fortune 1000, Fortune 2000,
346 00:37:22.650 ⇒ 00:37:26.200 Uttam Kumaran: Is, like, the people who have… who are 4 years in the past.
347 00:37:27.050 ⇒ 00:37:32.169 Uttam Kumaran: Who are going to the market and trying to find people that can just explain to them what the fuck is going on.
348 00:37:32.470 ⇒ 00:37:33.000 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
349 00:37:33.000 ⇒ 00:37:33.600 Pranav: Yup.
350 00:37:33.600 ⇒ 00:37:35.939 Uttam Kumaran: They’re not even close to doing anything.
351 00:37:36.290 ⇒ 00:37:43.770 Uttam Kumaran: I want to ditch these people that are, like, so frazzled, but they’re small, and they don’t have the resources to pay us what we’re worth.
352 00:37:43.880 ⇒ 00:37:57.860 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And so we have to play these games with, like, fractional, fractional, when in… and I will say, this is what we’ve been working on… this is what I’ve been working on the entire business, is to get us to the Fortune 2000, right? But it’s happening.
353 00:37:58.070 ⇒ 00:38:04.339 Uttam Kumaran: Like, it’s finally happening. But our existing delivery structure cannot deliver what those people want from me.
354 00:38:04.680 ⇒ 00:38:07.099 Uttam Kumaran: What they want from me is me.
355 00:38:07.530 ⇒ 00:38:12.000 Uttam Kumaran: like, they’re like, I want you to come help us, and I’m like, No.
356 00:38:12.130 ⇒ 00:38:14.330 Uttam Kumaran: I am not… you cannot buy me.
357 00:38:14.510 ⇒ 00:38:18.530 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I’ve done a good job in selling.
358 00:38:18.990 ⇒ 00:38:25.030 Uttam Kumaran: But then, my job is to be like, well, here are 5 clones. This is Brainforge, like…
359 00:38:25.200 ⇒ 00:38:27.380 Uttam Kumaran: These are the… we will come in.
360 00:38:27.620 ⇒ 00:38:29.669 Uttam Kumaran: You see what I’m saying? And so…
361 00:38:29.670 ⇒ 00:38:30.210 Pranav: Yup.
362 00:38:30.470 ⇒ 00:38:39.200 Uttam Kumaran: what I was disappointed with is that some of the people who I brought on that I thought would come on this journey, because I knew this was gonna happen.
363 00:38:39.810 ⇒ 00:38:47.660 Uttam Kumaran: like, every step of the way, people always try to get me and Robert, and then we sell the team, and we do that, and we do that, and like, ultimately now, our brand means something.
364 00:38:48.440 ⇒ 00:38:54.199 Uttam Kumaran: Some of the people that I thought would come along the journey stopped somewhere. They just said, fuck it, I’m not growing.
365 00:38:54.750 ⇒ 00:38:58.879 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, like, it’s such a letdown. Like, what do I… I was like…
366 00:38:59.540 ⇒ 00:39:05.059 Uttam Kumaran: you know, even since you’ve been here, how many times have things changed? Like, I’m, like, move… I’m trying to… we’re moving up.
367 00:39:05.200 ⇒ 00:39:12.779 Uttam Kumaran: In life, and, like, Greg is keeping up, Amber, you keep… and I’m like, some people just said, oh, that’s it.
368 00:39:13.260 ⇒ 00:39:16.190 Uttam Kumaran: And fuck, it’s, like, brutal, because I’m like…
369 00:39:17.040 ⇒ 00:39:21.569 Uttam Kumaran: I needed you. I needed you to come with me to the next thing. Like, you had the…
370 00:39:21.780 ⇒ 00:39:33.290 Uttam Kumaran: what happened? Like, and… so what I have to go do is, like, we have to go hire more people, we have to let people go, I have to look internally, we have to form a new group, I have to do these transformations.
371 00:39:34.680 ⇒ 00:39:48.590 Uttam Kumaran: But that is… that is where we’re headed, like, that’s not a question, that’s not, like, that’s not a debate. The debate is, like, do I feel confident that if I get a call from a Fortune 500 that’s like, can you start next week?
372 00:39:49.020 ⇒ 00:39:50.789 Uttam Kumaran: that I can say yes.
373 00:39:51.200 ⇒ 00:39:53.890 Uttam Kumaran: And… I’m telling you, like.
374 00:39:54.020 ⇒ 00:39:59.390 Uttam Kumaran: I would really not like to say no, and I would not like to say, give me 3 months.
375 00:39:59.780 ⇒ 00:40:15.749 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, that’s where I am right now. I will make sure that those people, we get the budget to support this group, to go in person, to do these things, to spend, like, quality time, not just be, like, 5 hours, 5 hours, 5 hours, but it’s, like, happening right now.
376 00:40:16.200 ⇒ 00:40:25.539 Uttam Kumaran: In addition, our normal stuff is also still going. Like, we have Sunstone, we have two other clients that should go over the line next week. Like.
377 00:40:25.810 ⇒ 00:40:38.580 Uttam Kumaran: all three are kind of in healthcare. Like, the normal stuff is just, like, continue to come. We… we sign… we’re gonna sign a fat GCP partnership. Like, we’re doing stuff, with Snowflake.
378 00:40:38.920 ⇒ 00:40:47.720 Uttam Kumaran: So the normal stuff is, like, still rolling. So now I’m in… now you can kind of see my bind. It’s like, the normal stuff can’t service this new
379 00:40:48.710 ⇒ 00:40:50.510 Uttam Kumaran: Type of customer, you know?
380 00:40:51.380 ⇒ 00:40:52.450 Pranav: Yeah, yeah.
381 00:40:52.990 ⇒ 00:40:53.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
382 00:40:54.180 ⇒ 00:40:54.960 Pranav: Yeah.
383 00:40:54.960 ⇒ 00:40:58.280 Uttam Kumaran: And dude, it’s actually gonna be great if you’re here in Austin, too.
384 00:40:58.580 ⇒ 00:41:04.459 Uttam Kumaran: When I… when you, when you get here, so… like, this… but this is how I’m thinking about stuff after this month.
385 00:41:05.370 ⇒ 00:41:06.349 Pranav: Okay, cool.
386 00:41:06.750 ⇒ 00:41:12.300 Pranav: I have to hop. I have a meeting with Janine, but… okay, yeah, no, it’s a good talk.
387 00:41:12.300 ⇒ 00:41:22.210 Uttam Kumaran: Just ruminate on it and, like, text me or Slack me, and I’ll get the three of us on the phone on Monday, or maybe even me and you and Amber later today, just to, like, chat, so…
388 00:41:22.730 ⇒ 00:41:23.830 Pranav: Yeah, sounds good.
389 00:41:24.360 ⇒ 00:41:25.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, alright, thanks, dude.
390 00:41:26.450 ⇒ 00:41:27.210 Pranav: Yes, yep.