Meeting Title: Eden Standup Date: 2026-05-06 Meeting participants: Greg Stoutenburg, Robert Tseng, Awaish Kumar, Zoran Selinger
WEBVTT
1 00:01:11.270 ⇒ 00:01:12.370 Greg Stoutenburg: Morning, Robert.
2 00:01:12.630 ⇒ 00:01:13.390 Robert Tseng: Hey.
3 00:01:15.650 ⇒ 00:01:19.959 Greg Stoutenburg: Who, Tom, just told me that you went to UChicago for a semester, or some period.
4 00:01:20.550 ⇒ 00:01:25.740 Robert Tseng: Oh, yes, I still have credits that I never finished there.
5 00:01:25.940 ⇒ 00:01:26.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Nice.
6 00:01:28.290 ⇒ 00:01:29.690 Robert Tseng: Why are you in Chicago?
7 00:01:31.200 ⇒ 00:01:41.739 Greg Stoutenburg: No, he was, he asked about my… my moves. I’ve just… I’ve lived in a lot of places in the US, and oh. So, when I mentioned my Chicago stop, he started asking why.
8 00:01:42.500 ⇒ 00:01:43.160 Robert Tseng: Oh.
9 00:01:43.160 ⇒ 00:01:43.740 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
10 00:01:43.990 ⇒ 00:01:44.520 Robert Tseng: Bye.
11 00:01:45.000 ⇒ 00:01:52.460 Greg Stoutenburg: Good question. Yeah, so that was college. I, I went to Moody Bible Institute, and I was gonna be a pastor.
12 00:01:52.460 ⇒ 00:01:54.130 Robert Tseng: No way!
13 00:01:54.130 ⇒ 00:01:54.860 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
14 00:01:55.420 ⇒ 00:01:56.090 Greg Stoutenburg: Bye guys.
15 00:01:56.090 ⇒ 00:01:59.449 Robert Tseng: Huh. We have, we have a lot, yeah, interesting, yeah.
16 00:01:59.610 ⇒ 00:02:01.180 Greg Stoutenburg: It was, yeah, so the.
17 00:02:01.180 ⇒ 00:02:03.070 Robert Tseng: I also thought I would be a passive.
18 00:02:03.070 ⇒ 00:02:11.480 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned at one point, you said something about, like, having been a missionary for a period of time. I’m like, I know that world,
19 00:02:11.640 ⇒ 00:02:30.050 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so I was… my… I mean, I didn’t even… I didn’t have… I didn’t have family friends, I didn’t have relatives that went to college, like, no one had, like, a career. Yeah. And so, like, I don’t know… So, I was going to… I was gonna start a community college and be, just do, like, their A-plus certification program for 2 years. Yeah.
20 00:02:30.120 ⇒ 00:02:48.179 Greg Stoutenburg: And then, like, 6 weeks before the start of the semester, I was admitted to Moody, and I was like, well, guess I’m gonna be a pastor. And then, like, 2 years into that, I was like, I want to be a philosophy professor. So then I moved around doing that, and then I got to do that, and then I was like, this stinks. I’m gonna go into tech. So… Huh.
21 00:02:48.780 ⇒ 00:02:53.560 Robert Tseng: I feel like we have more parallels in life than I thought.
22 00:02:53.560 ⇒ 00:02:58.249 Greg Stoutenburg: I think maybe so. I know, when I heard you were going to law school, it’s like, believe me, I thought of that too.
23 00:02:58.600 ⇒ 00:03:10.449 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and it’s not working out for me. My finals… I’m in finals week right now, so sorry guys, it’s probably the worst week of my life. I’m just kidding. But, like, it’s like, I’m, I’m done on Monday, so…
24 00:03:10.580 ⇒ 00:03:12.390 Robert Tseng: Just bear with me a bit.
25 00:03:12.390 ⇒ 00:03:16.239 Greg Stoutenburg: Very nice, yeah. Yeah, well, we’ll, we’ll have to chat sometime.
26 00:03:16.240 ⇒ 00:03:34.089 Robert Tseng: Yeah. No, I will have more time to do all this, like, yeah, doing Brain Forge plus law school was possible, like, early last year. Over the past 6 months, it has been basically impossible, so… Yeah. Just trying to wrap it up and put it on the shelf, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
27 00:03:34.090 ⇒ 00:03:34.640 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool.
28 00:03:37.460 ⇒ 00:03:45.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, anyway, I thought I would, start with just going through the deck, just because I’m going to be meeting them in an hour, so it’d be great to just get everyone’s input, and then…
29 00:03:46.340 ⇒ 00:03:56.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we’ll talk about, kind of, the adjustments that we’re continuing to make, which… I know it’s painful, but I think we’re headed in the right direction.
30 00:03:56.870 ⇒ 00:04:12.800 Robert Tseng: Okay, so totally agree with, Greg’s kind of point here. Yeah, I think these three is fine, like, I mean, I just wanted to… hopefully you guys thought… I mean, I just linked in things that were more, I thought, useful. I don’t know if this is true, I think I just used linear MCP. I feel like we…
31 00:04:12.800 ⇒ 00:04:17.810 Robert Tseng: May or may not have clearly that many, but they’re not gonna look into that.
32 00:04:18.540 ⇒ 00:04:21.670 Robert Tseng: Great. Okay, so I think we’re clear there.
33 00:04:21.890 ⇒ 00:04:24.129 Robert Tseng: I wish I took this, and I…
34 00:04:24.360 ⇒ 00:04:36.359 Robert Tseng: I don’t know if Claude made it any better. I feel like your illustration still exists down here, so I have that there. And then I’m gonna just give some of the, like, touch on lightly some of the way that we’re thinking
35 00:04:36.560 ⇒ 00:04:40.899 Robert Tseng: Just more about how I want them to be seeing our team.
36 00:04:41.120 ⇒ 00:04:56.589 Robert Tseng: So, they’re really pushing us more towards the back end, which is fine. I think we’re just becoming more of, like, a infrastructure team for them. And, yeah, I guess I kind of maybe transitions to some of the things that I want to give them a heads up on, so…
37 00:04:56.610 ⇒ 00:05:03.799 Robert Tseng: Yeah, kind of just talking through these and, like, what the next step is in terms of these recommendations.
38 00:05:04.420 ⇒ 00:05:13.479 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so the ongoing data governance project… well, Awish and I met yesterday, and basically what we had put together was this, like, MarTech
39 00:05:13.750 ⇒ 00:05:15.990 Robert Tseng: Delivery model thing.
40 00:05:16.160 ⇒ 00:05:21.260 Robert Tseng: If you guys haven’t gotten a chance to read this, basically the proposal is…
41 00:05:21.430 ⇒ 00:05:28.130 Robert Tseng: Okay, look, they have their repo that they’re gonna just be pushing whatever the… Adam’s bragging about his 1,000 commits, whatever, like…
42 00:05:28.620 ⇒ 00:05:32.900 Robert Tseng: Most of that stuff is just, you know, text. It’s not really even… it’s not really code.
43 00:05:33.240 ⇒ 00:05:53.640 Robert Tseng: And it doesn’t really, like, impact anything we have in production right now. I mean, if anything, he has some things hooked up to ad platforms, so he may, like, mess with the configs on, like, Segment, on Google Ads. Obviously, you see the engineering team keeps asking for more and more access to things, because they are really trying to just move everything to
44 00:05:53.640 ⇒ 00:05:55.029 Robert Tseng: Just like…
45 00:05:55.030 ⇒ 00:06:12.739 Robert Tseng: direct app to… you know, app-to-app SDKs. So, that’s fine. I mean, maybe they cut out a segment as a middleware, like, by July, when removal… when renewal comes, which is totally fine. A year ago, we were in this place, I tried to move them off-segment, tried to move them to rudder stack, because I was already telling them.
46 00:06:12.870 ⇒ 00:06:31.610 Robert Tseng: nobody on your team really maintains segment. Like, it doesn’t really make sense. Like, we would rather just do everything from code, and broader stack is a better, you know, tool for that. So, seems like they’re coming to that conclusion themselves without really kind of discussing that with us, so I just see that as… that’s what’s coming. Whereas, like, for us.
47 00:06:31.610 ⇒ 00:06:51.889 Robert Tseng: you know, we just have to make sure that the environment that we control still kind of, like, follows, all of the best practices that we… that we bring to the table. So, yeah, what I pitched to Awash was like, look, don’t view this as, like, a… our… we’re gonna be having a spike in the number of engineering tickets. They’re gonna just keep pushing a bunch of stuff.
48 00:06:52.090 ⇒ 00:06:54.680 Robert Tseng: from their engineering team, from Adam himself.
49 00:06:55.260 ⇒ 00:06:57.849 Robert Tseng: What we need to do is just set up, kind of like.
50 00:06:57.930 ⇒ 00:07:20.559 Robert Tseng: kind of similar to what we have on Brainforce Platform, which is where maybe I might, you know, you know, we have a bunch of different contributors to the platform. Everything goes to a structured review process. Not every… not every commit gets, like, let in, right? And so, like, I kind of think about, kind of, that’s what governance probably should look like for Eden as well. They’re gonna have all this, like, noise.
51 00:07:20.560 ⇒ 00:07:25.230 Robert Tseng: Adam’s gonna be pinging us every day, being like, look, I did this thing, go review it, and…
52 00:07:25.270 ⇒ 00:07:37.859 Robert Tseng: I want to not have to go and, like, dig into what exact change he made and, like, try to… to… to kind of go that far into the rabbit hole every time. I would like, like, you know, to have us… to set up, like, a
53 00:07:38.070 ⇒ 00:07:43.560 Robert Tseng: like a… Automated review process, really, where, we’re kind of…
54 00:07:43.990 ⇒ 00:07:46.809 Robert Tseng: We are kind of taking in all of the different
55 00:07:46.930 ⇒ 00:07:59.639 Robert Tseng: commits that people on the Eden team would be making, but then we’re able to parse through, like, what’s actually a change that would impact, like, what we’re maintaining, what do we want to take on, and, like, we… maybe we have to go in
56 00:07:59.640 ⇒ 00:08:07.199 Robert Tseng: and add some guardrails, or harden validate it, whatever, before we bring it into production. But basically, let them
57 00:08:07.200 ⇒ 00:08:31.809 Robert Tseng: be the coders. Like, let them go just, like, rip it, and, like, we’re just gonna stay more removed from that, but anything that we let in needs to have the Brainforward stamp of approval. So that’s basically what, kind of, this model is meant to be, and this is isolated to just MarTech. We’re not adopting this process for, kind of, like, we’re not moving all the Basque webhooks off of Segment, or, like, there’s no…
58 00:08:31.810 ⇒ 00:08:43.409 Robert Tseng: big, like, operational migration thing that we’re gonna do, because that data is too risky. If that kind of gets messed up, all of our BI reports get broken, and we’ll be firefighting all day. But for this MarTech stuff.
59 00:08:43.409 ⇒ 00:08:56.620 Robert Tseng: they’re just letting it rip the speed, whatever, like, they care… is something that they care about right now. Clearly, like, accuracy, which we already kind of met that standard, was, like, not enough for them. They just… they care about speed and just the…
60 00:08:56.620 ⇒ 00:09:08.010 Robert Tseng: the feeling that they were, like, getting a lot of stuff done, so I’m just trying to, like, react to that, and anyway, like, I think tried to write it in a clear way. So,
61 00:09:08.010 ⇒ 00:09:16.230 Robert Tseng: I’ll just pause there, see any kind of questions or thoughts, like, do… are we… what do you guys think about this as a plan for it?
62 00:09:16.810 ⇒ 00:09:18.009 Awaish Kumar: Yeah. Yeah, thank you.
63 00:09:18.010 ⇒ 00:09:21.720 Zoran Selinger: That your assessment of how they feel right now?
64 00:09:21.870 ⇒ 00:09:24.349 Zoran Selinger: is correct, so they… they are…
65 00:09:24.570 ⇒ 00:09:33.329 Zoran Selinger: In this enthusiasm mode, they made so many decisions over the last couple of weeks, and just flying with it.
66 00:09:33.740 ⇒ 00:09:43.040 Zoran Selinger: Yeah. A lot of it is just super rushed, of course. Yeah, so the way you see that, I think that’s exactly right.
67 00:09:43.190 ⇒ 00:09:45.110 Zoran Selinger: That’s exactly what’s happening.
68 00:09:45.290 ⇒ 00:09:50.639 Greg Stoutenburg: So, just to clarify, Robert, would this apply also to all those code changes that Adam is pushing?
69 00:09:51.400 ⇒ 00:10:07.459 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, so all his… all of his changes that he’s pushing, they’re just, like, going to his repo, like, they’re not really, like, touch… a lot… most of it’s not touching our code, like, probably 90% of it doesn’t even impact us. So, it’s just, like, a bunch of… it’s just, like, our… it’s our version of BraveForge Platform, where there’s just a bunch of docs.
70 00:10:07.460 ⇒ 00:10:13.079 Robert Tseng: Markdown files, I mean, he’s writing them in JavaScript or whatever, like, I don’t know what the heck he’s doing, but, like, he’s just…
71 00:10:13.110 ⇒ 00:10:18.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah, he just has a lot of… he’s creating a lot of, yeah, noise in there, and .
72 00:10:18.530 ⇒ 00:10:29.530 Zoran Selinger: is actively making changes to both Cloudflare Worker, which directly affects us, and making changes to the Google Tag Manager, which directly affects us.
73 00:10:29.530 ⇒ 00:10:31.530 Greg Stoutenburg: And we saw a segment mixed panel.
74 00:10:31.530 ⇒ 00:10:41.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so like I said, he is directly hitting the configs on these tools, so I think that impacts us, but most of the other… most of the stuff in his repo doesn’t actually impact us.
75 00:10:41.520 ⇒ 00:10:42.170 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
76 00:10:42.170 ⇒ 00:10:42.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
77 00:10:42.710 ⇒ 00:10:51.880 Zoran Selinger: I am… basically, this is what I’m working on. He asked for some feedback, I’m working on this. There’s some really good stuff in there.
78 00:10:53.040 ⇒ 00:10:58.719 Zoran Selinger: Especially on the worker, they added so much functionality in there.
79 00:10:58.720 ⇒ 00:10:59.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
80 00:10:59.040 ⇒ 00:11:02.900 Zoran Selinger: some of it to replace, you know, Google Tag Manager and stuff.
81 00:11:03.430 ⇒ 00:11:20.989 Zoran Selinger: some good stuff, and I’m gonna take something, from it as well, just for our… for our reference for the future, like, the way to improve slightly on… on Cloudflare workers that we’re gonna implement for more clients, stuff like that.
82 00:11:20.990 ⇒ 00:11:21.370 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
83 00:11:21.600 ⇒ 00:11:22.330 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
84 00:11:23.090 ⇒ 00:11:34.149 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I’m just trying to, like, shift this from, like, I don’t want to feel like this is an antagonistic relationship. They’re gonna… yeah, we want to enable them in what they can, but, like, also protect us, ourselves, and that, like.
85 00:11:34.150 ⇒ 00:11:35.590 Awaish Kumar: You know, obviously.
86 00:11:35.590 ⇒ 00:11:45.679 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, we don’t wanna… we don’t wanna push… we don’t want to ultimately approve changes that are gonna just, like, completely put us on the back foot or break things. So, wait, yeah, sorry, you were saying…
87 00:11:46.110 ⇒ 00:11:49.669 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I just want to add, like, the things that he’s doing
88 00:11:49.900 ⇒ 00:11:53.789 Awaish Kumar: Some of it is already a duplicate of what we have, right?
89 00:11:53.790 ⇒ 00:11:55.210 Robert Tseng: Yes, I agree, yeah.
90 00:11:55.210 ⇒ 00:11:56.929 Awaish Kumar: I suggested for Google.
91 00:11:57.090 ⇒ 00:12:02.290 Awaish Kumar: Ad Manager, like, we already have a way to do that, like, we have dbt models.
92 00:12:02.420 ⇒ 00:12:07.799 Awaish Kumar: And then we have a Dexter pipeline that does exactly what it’s trying to do.
93 00:12:07.920 ⇒ 00:12:13.860 Awaish Kumar: But he’s trying to do it in a different way, like, writing a direct query, maybe without using dbt.
94 00:12:14.250 ⇒ 00:12:17.540 Awaish Kumar: So it just breaks what we already have, right?
95 00:12:20.320 ⇒ 00:12:26.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So, yeah, I think these are… these are the types of discussions, so when you… yeah, like,
96 00:12:27.040 ⇒ 00:12:43.919 Robert Tseng: So, okay, so you’re saying that that… what he’s… what he’s pushing there is a breaking change, because it would, like, directly conflict with part of the infrastructure that we’ve set up. So, like, yeah, that type of signal, like, we need to be able to catch that from his changes, and be able to tell him, like.
97 00:12:43.920 ⇒ 00:12:58.250 Robert Tseng: No, like, this is… this is… this is a breaking change. It will… it will break how we think… we already set it up this, like, you see, like, they’re… they’re kind of just, like, recklessly going around, doing whatever, kind of touching whatever is kind of coming off his dome, but, like.
98 00:12:58.390 ⇒ 00:13:07.500 Robert Tseng: anything that’s a breaking change to what we’ve set up, that’s where we want to, like, push back on. But if it doesn’t directly impact us, then, like, I don’t… I don’t particularly care too much about what they’re doing.
99 00:13:08.080 ⇒ 00:13:13.199 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, so the recent comment that you just shared with us, like, to review… Yeah.
100 00:13:13.530 ⇒ 00:13:31.259 Awaish Kumar: That’s what I think, like, that’s going to directly impact the models he’s going to create. He might get… read some tables from BigQuery and write a query on top of it, and come up with something without, like, and discarding the entire, like, DVD setup we have.
101 00:13:31.420 ⇒ 00:13:36.180 Awaish Kumar: Yeah. CTL on top of it. And the reverse ETL, we already have some…
102 00:13:36.310 ⇒ 00:13:43.370 Awaish Kumar: In our tax stuff, so he’s… he will be just trying to create those scripts, and I don’t know how they are willing to orchestrate it.
103 00:13:45.340 ⇒ 00:14:03.840 Robert Tseng: Well, so in that case, is there a way to basically, like, take… we know his intention, we know that he’s just not doing it through our system. Can we just, like, help him refactor his changes so that… his code, so that it just goes through our process? Like, that’s kind of what I mean by, like, kind of taking… kind of moving more towards a governance kind of…
104 00:14:03.840 ⇒ 00:14:14.010 Awaish Kumar: We also made a decision to, like, keep those in our Dexter repos, and now the problem is he don’t have visibility over it.
105 00:14:14.210 ⇒ 00:14:18.690 Awaish Kumar: So I don’t… like, how can I share with him, like, okay, this is the way you can do it?
106 00:14:20.400 ⇒ 00:14:30.879 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, I mean, we already said that we need to basically extend our Daxter, like, we need to put more… we need to basically use that as the main orchestration platform.
107 00:14:31.000 ⇒ 00:14:40.310 Robert Tseng: at this point, like, they should host it, right? We should basically move it off our… off of us to… and then that’ll give them the visibility.
108 00:14:42.870 ⇒ 00:14:47.300 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, that’s the case. So, the way it’s doing is now, like, it will be a…
109 00:14:47.450 ⇒ 00:14:52.349 Awaish Kumar: Similar to Platform, it will be a monorepo, which can… which will include, like, dbt project.
110 00:14:52.760 ⇒ 00:14:59.970 Awaish Kumar: Dexter and Cloud for… yeah, Cloud Worker kind of connections and all that in there.
111 00:14:59.970 ⇒ 00:15:00.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
112 00:15:04.510 ⇒ 00:15:27.600 Robert Tseng: Okay, so, I mean, we have this, like, plan here, and it has, like, these pretty open-ended things, like, you kind of signed off on this, like, this is all pretty, like, fluffy, in my opinion, right now. So, this, like, data contract, I just want to be very explicit, because I’m going to tell them, like, these are the steps that it’s going to take to build you this monorepo with your host infrastructure, so you can actually keep ripping… ripping the code that you want, right? So…
113 00:15:27.600 ⇒ 00:15:30.629 Robert Tseng: There are, I mean, I think this is really just, like.
114 00:15:31.030 ⇒ 00:15:43.879 Robert Tseng: what… like, what should their agents be allowed to touch, and what should they not? Like, what needs to basically go… and yeah, and I think this is pretty clear, I can just say that this is just MarTech-related things.
115 00:15:44.060 ⇒ 00:15:50.659 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t know if I can restrict them more, if Zoran, as you’re telling me, like, look, them messing with…
116 00:15:50.950 ⇒ 00:15:59.570 Robert Tseng: I mean, sounds like you’re not opposed to them messing with Cloudflare, but, like, if there is something that’s, like, you absolutely cannot touch this, then I think I want to be able to draw those lines.
117 00:15:59.710 ⇒ 00:16:18.340 Robert Tseng: And then the repo boundaries, like, I think there’s this kind of, like, okay, what’s gonna be in the existing repo that Adam has set up versus, like, what we have? We’re basically gonna put all of them into a single monorepo, and so he… his changes are only gonna go into his. That’s basically, like, a staging environment, but then for us, like.
118 00:16:18.340 ⇒ 00:16:23.510 Robert Tseng: We’re still going to be managing the production repo, so, like, there’s some definition around that.
119 00:16:23.880 ⇒ 00:16:30.439 Robert Tseng: I don’t really know how, like, clear we will make this, like, now. I…
120 00:16:30.580 ⇒ 00:16:37.409 Robert Tseng: But yeah, this is just the role access permissions thing that we were talking about, a ways yesterday. And then,
121 00:16:37.570 ⇒ 00:16:46.559 Robert Tseng: I guess, like, yeah, we just have to… we have to… we have to put… we have to describe what these limits are. That’s what… that’s what it is, like, for… at least for this first week. That way, like.
122 00:16:46.820 ⇒ 00:16:56.949 Robert Tseng: we will then be able to go in and build it out in the future. So, like, yeah, that’s… I think that’s where we’re at today.
123 00:16:56.950 ⇒ 00:17:04.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Robert, maybe a principle here, I mean, this is a… this is a GitLab thing, I think, ultimately, is just… they would just call it the Four Eyes principle, you know, merge a PR.
124 00:17:04.619 ⇒ 00:17:22.379 Greg Stoutenburg: without getting someone else’s review on it, even if they don’t have anything formal. So I think, like, even if it is just week one, maybe a way to start it is to say, like, hey, you know, these are some patterns that we’ve noticed, and we want to make sure that the MarkTech stack is optimized, so let’s just begin, even with something like that.
125 00:17:22.890 ⇒ 00:17:23.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
126 00:17:23.609 ⇒ 00:17:25.209 Greg Stoutenburg: I don’t know if Adam would buy it, but I mean…
127 00:17:27.040 ⇒ 00:17:30.320 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, exactly. For… Or…
128 00:17:30.570 ⇒ 00:17:49.289 Zoran Selinger: Cloudflare workers, specifically. This is super important, because especially now, they want to use the identifier from Edge on everything, so it’s… it’s absolutely the key. They cannot break that system, right? So, yeah, I have an idea… I mean, I know what I would do there. I would allow
129 00:17:49.450 ⇒ 00:17:53.560 Zoran Selinger: The draft version to be pushed.
130 00:17:53.720 ⇒ 00:17:57.840 Zoran Selinger: To the system, and then have Me?
131 00:17:58.220 ⇒ 00:18:04.089 Zoran Selinger: or whoever, right? Review the draft before publishing.
132 00:18:04.650 ⇒ 00:18:22.210 Zoran Selinger: Of course. That should be… that should be in place for Cloudflare Worker, because he… he uses the CLI, and CLI… also, I use CLI. CLI has a… has a version… has… has a command to just push… push a deployment that is not published yet. That’s it. So…
133 00:18:22.210 ⇒ 00:18:34.940 Zoran Selinger: just having someone, having me review. I’m… I have nothing against him. Adam going in and making a bunch of changes, like, he has, like, 10 deployments in a day.
134 00:18:35.230 ⇒ 00:18:36.000 Zoran Selinger: Right?
135 00:18:36.580 ⇒ 00:18:50.490 Zoran Selinger: okay, he made 10 deployments in a day, but those should not be immediately alive before someone looks at them, right? Yeah. That’s exactly what’s happening now. He pushes directly to production.
136 00:18:52.790 ⇒ 00:18:53.530 Robert Tseng: Okay.
137 00:18:53.770 ⇒ 00:18:56.199 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, and that’s dangerous, of course.
138 00:18:56.580 ⇒ 00:18:57.240 Zoran Selinger: Do you believe?
139 00:18:57.240 ⇒ 00:19:16.800 Robert Tseng: So, like, I don’t think the speed is gonna get… is gonna go lower. He’s just gonna keep doing what he’s doing, and, like, he’ll probably want other people to be pushing at his speed, too. So, knowing that we’re gonna be dealing with, like, 10 plus commits a day, like, we just… yeah, that’s my ask for you guys. Like, what are the things that we have to get in order so that we’re…
140 00:19:16.800 ⇒ 00:19:18.550 Zoran Selinger: I believe that will slow down.
141 00:19:18.830 ⇒ 00:19:31.960 Zoran Selinger: I believe that will slow down. He, like, he has a, like, a feature list that he’s going through right now. Once… that will slow down over time. I just don’t know how, how fast.
142 00:19:33.270 ⇒ 00:19:34.100 Robert Tseng: Okay.
143 00:19:34.920 ⇒ 00:19:35.750 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
144 00:19:35.750 ⇒ 00:19:37.969 Greg Stoutenburg: Zoran, could you review 10 commits a day?
145 00:19:38.290 ⇒ 00:19:40.260 Greg Stoutenburg: If we said to him, hey, Zora needs to ring…
146 00:19:40.260 ⇒ 00:19:44.419 Zoran Selinger: Today, I’m just reviewing the latest, whatever’s latest there, right?
147 00:19:44.590 ⇒ 00:20:03.800 Zoran Selinger: I’m just… I just took the latest version, and I’m looking into that. If he makes more later, right, I’m gonna finish that task tomorrow. So, I’m gonna catch those, but I’m gonna have, like, a report tomorrow on it, and if he pushes more.
148 00:20:03.920 ⇒ 00:20:06.379 Zoran Selinger: Obviously, that won’t be included.
149 00:20:06.750 ⇒ 00:20:13.990 Zoran Selinger: And that can… we can only catch up with it if we have A rule in place that
150 00:20:14.440 ⇒ 00:20:17.249 Zoran Selinger: He cannot push directly to production.
151 00:20:17.830 ⇒ 00:20:36.199 Robert Tseng: Okay, so that’ll be the main thing that I will, I will harp on. Fine. I think I’m okay with that. Yeah, okay, so, why should we turn, and then, yeah, Wish, we already talked, so Greg, Greg, what, what’s, I mean, what, what, what’s, on your, on your side, like, what, what do we need to discuss, yeah.
152 00:20:36.200 ⇒ 00:20:56.159 Greg Stoutenburg: So, I mean, I think where I’m at right now is, the understanding is that the segment stuff is just being left as is, tracking is in place, identity resolution is in place the way that it needs to be, it deserves a full suite, but if they’re moving away from it anyway, then… then it just doesn’t… then there’s no need to do a whole audit. Okay. So, and haven’t heard any… any complaints.
153 00:20:56.160 ⇒ 00:21:00.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah, they haven’t said that yet, but, like, it feels like that’s where they’re headed, yeah.
154 00:21:00.210 ⇒ 00:21:22.719 Greg Stoutenburg: As far as what else I’m working on, I’ve been… related to governance and roles and things like that, I’ve been pushing the marketing team of, you know, Mitesh and Ryan and Danny in this direction. Mitesh kind of keeps throwing up his hands, like, you know, what are we gonna do here? And I think instead of giving advice, I’m just gonna draft for them, like, here’s a roles and permissions approach.
155 00:21:22.720 ⇒ 00:21:29.910 Greg Stoutenburg: for segment and for Mixpanel, just follow this, and then making sure that, that Danny’s got
156 00:21:29.910 ⇒ 00:21:44.349 Greg Stoutenburg: my assistance, basically, in implementing what needs to be implemented for Eden OS, since they pulled out a GTM. So, there’s firefighting there, but the approach had been, right, follow the initial path that we use for, tryEden.com.
157 00:21:44.350 ⇒ 00:21:53.620 Greg Stoutenburg: For, for the intakes. Do the same thing I need in OS, but since they’re trying to rip out GTM, then just sort of making sure that Ryan’s got backup and getting that done.
158 00:21:54.110 ⇒ 00:22:03.080 Robert Tseng: Okay. Yeah, I know, like, Ryan got added as, like, kind of basically owner of Segment. Do you think he’s actually gonna be able to handle that for now? I mean, yeah.
159 00:22:03.080 ⇒ 00:22:03.980 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, well…
160 00:22:04.050 ⇒ 00:22:05.830 Robert Tseng: GTM segment is basically what I want.
161 00:22:05.830 ⇒ 00:22:23.040 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, the way that I laid it out for them Friday, the suggestion after the call with, and Mitesh and the team, was that Ryan would PM the EdenOS stuff, Danny would provide backup on segment, but talking to Danny one-on-one Monday, he was like, I don’t know what this is, I don’t know what I’m doing, I don’t have time for this.
162 00:22:23.040 ⇒ 00:22:28.449 Greg Stoutenburg: Kind of like, in a little bit… I don’t… it wasn’t resistance, it was more like, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing, and I’m gonna get.
163 00:22:28.450 ⇒ 00:22:29.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
164 00:22:29.710 ⇒ 00:22:30.540 Greg Stoutenburg: It’s a weapon.
165 00:22:30.540 ⇒ 00:22:31.980 Robert Tseng: I’m a designer.
166 00:22:31.980 ⇒ 00:22:49.090 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, right, and so I’m like, alright, so I need to pull that back a little bit, and I’m gonna… I’m gonna try to put more of that on Ryan, but I’m just gonna… I’m gonna lay out this, like, roles and responsibilities thing to go, like, guys, here’s a way to actually divide this work up, and… and stay afloat with the changes that are going on.
167 00:22:49.090 ⇒ 00:22:53.870 Zoran Selinger: Ryan doesn’t know segment, he’s asking me for a coaching session.
168 00:22:54.160 ⇒ 00:22:54.520 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
169 00:22:54.520 ⇒ 00:22:55.280 Robert Tseng: Okay.
170 00:22:55.490 ⇒ 00:22:57.360 Robert Tseng: So, I guess, yeah.
171 00:22:58.470 ⇒ 00:23:04.229 Robert Tseng: Maybe last question, it would be… so, Zoran, you met… you met with me today, like.
172 00:23:04.350 ⇒ 00:23:13.539 Robert Tseng: Do you think that if she came in, we could… we could just… do you think she can… between you, you, her, and Awash, basically, I…
173 00:23:13.980 ⇒ 00:23:17.419 Robert Tseng: I can… do you think she can… she can plug into this?
174 00:23:20.500 ⇒ 00:23:38.940 Zoran Selinger: So she… technically speaking, so, no. So, she isn’t… she isn’t technical, enough to actually do the technical bits, but she does have experience with, kind of more… more general things that you were looking for.
175 00:23:39.260 ⇒ 00:23:39.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
176 00:23:39.600 ⇒ 00:23:40.560 Zoran Selinger: And it seems to.
177 00:23:40.560 ⇒ 00:23:48.030 Robert Tseng: Well, I basically want to try to get Greg off of it, so, like, I want… I want to see if she can come in and help kind of take over for Greg.
178 00:23:48.500 ⇒ 00:23:54.850 Robert Tseng: In terms of, like, being the strategist’s counterpart for the marketing folks.
179 00:23:55.110 ⇒ 00:23:56.680 Robert Tseng: Because then we should… yeah.
180 00:23:56.680 ⇒ 00:24:11.259 Zoran Selinger: some limited experience with, for example, Segment and Google Tag Manager. She, she was… she worked for a smaller company, so she had to be, like, a self-starter, and she did… did projects herself.
181 00:24:11.460 ⇒ 00:24:18.150 Zoran Selinger: that part, but I wouldn’t say that she has a lot of experience, no, no, that’s… that is not the case.
182 00:24:18.550 ⇒ 00:24:19.800 Robert Tseng: Hmm. Okay.
183 00:24:20.620 ⇒ 00:24:23.330 Zoran Selinger: yeah.
184 00:24:25.640 ⇒ 00:24:33.400 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, I mean, I’ll look for your, like, kind of more assessment with you, but yeah, I guess, like, in a world, like, 2 weeks from now.
185 00:24:33.460 ⇒ 00:24:47.500 Robert Tseng: I… Awash is the data… yeah, I mean, he’s not really even having to build new DBT models. It’s kind of where I see. He’s… he’s just doing… he’s set up… he’s re… rejiggered the infrastructure here so that, like.
186 00:24:47.610 ⇒ 00:25:02.999 Robert Tseng: you know, if they’re making any changes that impact, like, our stack, we’re able to redirect them, tell them, show them the way that it’s done, let them to keep pushing. So he’s just kind of really, like, they’ve become the engineers, and he’s just kind of the data governor at that point.
187 00:25:04.300 ⇒ 00:25:25.929 Robert Tseng: And then Zoran, like, obviously you have to go and review, like, Martech deployments, but, like, they also will be making a lot of the deployments themselves. Obviously, there’s gonna be edge cases, new tools that they bring in that they can’t help set up, but, like, you end up becoming just doing that. And then her, I imagine, like, me or somebody, whoever that person’s gonna be.
188 00:25:25.930 ⇒ 00:25:28.530 Robert Tseng: Would just be…
189 00:25:28.530 ⇒ 00:25:47.710 Robert Tseng: basically meeting regularly with Mitesh, with Ryan, like, helping them to basically do what Greg is doing right now. But, like, Greg doesn’t have the capacity to build a roadmap for them. He’s just kind of, like, trying to… to steer them on… on, like… he’s basically PMing them right now. So, like, and that’s…
190 00:25:47.760 ⇒ 00:26:07.230 Robert Tseng: And she needs to take some of that, but also kind of keep them on track for, like, what they want to build towards. And I thought that in her experience, you know, she’s done the whole range of, like, building custom attribution models without any of these tools, to also kind of, like, the next, you know, just incrementally, in terms of, like, when I was chatting with her.
191 00:26:07.230 ⇒ 00:26:28.000 Robert Tseng: what she thinks about when building, like, a marketing analytics function. Like, I thought that her, like, the traject… like, that makes sense, or at least from my experience, that makes sense. You go from figuring out attribution, then you move into incrementality, and then afterwards, you work… you… you go into M&M or, like, some other, like, more channel-level type of analysis. But, like.
192 00:26:28.140 ⇒ 00:26:44.599 Robert Tseng: it’s… it’s like… it seemed like she had had some experience across the whole funnel, like, it was general enough that, like, I felt like she could at least, you know, push that further along than… than… than, I guess, Greg can currently in his… in his capacity. So.
193 00:26:44.600 ⇒ 00:26:49.190 Zoran Selinger: There’s two reasons why I’m reluctant to confirm. One is…
194 00:26:50.040 ⇒ 00:26:54.680 Zoran Selinger: Right now, we are in a high-pressure environment with… with Eden. That’s…
195 00:26:54.680 ⇒ 00:26:55.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
196 00:26:55.050 ⇒ 00:27:07.219 Zoran Selinger: And the second one is I have very little experience with interviewing and assessing and all that, right? That’s… those are the two reasons why I’m reluctant.
197 00:27:07.340 ⇒ 00:27:16.450 Zoran Selinger: and particularly for Eden right now, I think my answer is maybe, still. It’s not a no, it’s a maybe.
198 00:27:16.450 ⇒ 00:27:16.830 Robert Tseng: Okay.
199 00:27:16.830 ⇒ 00:27:25.689 Zoran Selinger: see the take-home assignment that she does, and then I think we should have that final interview with her, absolutely.
200 00:27:25.940 ⇒ 00:27:26.560 Robert Tseng: Okay.
201 00:27:26.690 ⇒ 00:27:27.480 Robert Tseng: Okay.
202 00:27:27.480 ⇒ 00:27:28.540 Zoran Selinger: If it’s not her, I.
203 00:27:28.540 ⇒ 00:27:38.020 Robert Tseng: trying to find somebody like that. So, yeah, I mean, I’m trying to get Kayla to put a couple other people, candidates in the pipeline. But yeah, I think, yeah, yeah.
204 00:27:38.020 ⇒ 00:27:51.919 Zoran Selinger: She’s a good candidate, when it comes to, like, the experience and skills. I think that’s a really, really good fit. We should… we should continue looking for someone like that for maybe other clients, stuff like that. That’s fine.
205 00:27:51.920 ⇒ 00:27:52.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
206 00:27:53.170 ⇒ 00:27:59.650 Zoran Selinger: I wanted to emphasize one more thing for May in particular. Yeah. Next week.
207 00:27:59.800 ⇒ 00:28:07.730 Zoran Selinger: I’m off Monday through Wednesday. I’m not here for 3 days, and the week after, I’m off in the second part of the week.
208 00:28:07.890 ⇒ 00:28:10.250 Zoran Selinger: So… a wish.
209 00:28:10.500 ⇒ 00:28:16.269 Zoran Selinger: it’s probably a good if… we will need to review Cloudflare Worker.
210 00:28:16.380 ⇒ 00:28:23.749 Zoran Selinger: for If we get him to submit drafts and wait for our approval.
211 00:28:24.590 ⇒ 00:28:26.429 Zoran Selinger: Someone will have to do that.
212 00:28:26.700 ⇒ 00:28:36.039 Zoran Selinger: What do you guys think? I think Avaesh is probably the person to… to… Have a look.
213 00:28:36.300 ⇒ 00:28:41.429 Zoran Selinger: Right? So, Aish, it’s… it’s… basically, it’s front-end code.
214 00:28:41.590 ⇒ 00:28:44.619 Zoran Selinger: it’s a little bit of JavaScript, I don’t know if you…
215 00:28:47.840 ⇒ 00:28:50.729 Zoran Selinger: I’m guessing you would… you would be able to manage.
216 00:28:50.920 ⇒ 00:29:05.860 Zoran Selinger: Essentially, what you would need to do in, with a new draft is, give the agent the old code, give it a new code, set to compare, and to understand the change.
217 00:29:06.000 ⇒ 00:29:11.430 Zoran Selinger: Okay. If you think… I don’t know what,
218 00:29:11.940 ⇒ 00:29:15.259 Zoran Selinger: How else we would manage this.
219 00:29:16.010 ⇒ 00:29:19.810 Greg Stoutenburg: I need to drive and talk to, sorry, drop and go talk to Element.
220 00:29:19.810 ⇒ 00:29:21.289 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’ll be there in a bit.
221 00:29:21.290 ⇒ 00:29:22.889 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, alright, see you guys.
222 00:29:23.140 ⇒ 00:29:26.460 Zoran Selinger: Just… So if… if I’m… if I’m off…
223 00:29:27.510 ⇒ 00:29:38.209 Zoran Selinger: and he… he wants to make changes, and we already kind of… or we can give him… I don’t know, can we give him… say, okay, Zon’s not here, go ahead and…
224 00:29:39.300 ⇒ 00:29:40.760 Zoran Selinger: do the thing.
225 00:29:41.370 ⇒ 00:29:43.750 Awaish Kumar: Okay, I think that… What do you guys think?
226 00:29:44.790 ⇒ 00:29:54.190 Awaish Kumar: I think at least that would, like, make the blame on him, like, instead I… without having to… having knowledge of Cloud Worker.
227 00:29:55.950 ⇒ 00:29:59.419 Awaish Kumar: Make some changes, and it… it fails.
228 00:30:01.300 ⇒ 00:30:16.859 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I mean, obviously, he’s very, very willing to take that risk. That’s very obvious. He doesn’t have a problem with someone double-checking his work before he goes, like, he absolutely has no problem with that.
229 00:30:16.960 ⇒ 00:30:18.410 Zoran Selinger: So…
230 00:30:19.580 ⇒ 00:30:32.789 Zoran Selinger: I’m just saying, like, if Robert’s gonna come to that meeting today or tomorrow and insist on some of those rules, and I’m gonna be absent for 6 days in the next 2 weeks.
231 00:30:33.820 ⇒ 00:30:46.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay, let’s assume that, like, okay, they approved this kind of, like, PR review process. Basically, I have to review stuff from within the repo. Yeah, I wish, I think, like, the bottleneck is, like, I mean, we’ve talked about this yesterday, but, like, what…
232 00:30:46.580 ⇒ 00:30:57.540 Robert Tseng: like, as far as sequence… does my doc… my doc is really for them, but, like, for you, like, what do we need to do in order to be able to, like, get that going? Like…
233 00:30:57.980 ⇒ 00:31:00.109 Robert Tseng: As soon as we can, you know, like…
234 00:31:01.440 ⇒ 00:31:08.410 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, so… So, starting point is that we start with our review process, like, make some more…
235 00:31:09.160 ⇒ 00:31:14.770 Awaish Kumar: Changes on… on repo, PR checks, Code owners…
236 00:31:15.220 ⇒ 00:31:27.849 Awaish Kumar: And, like, not merge, like, without approval, we restrict the… the merge to main, so start with that setup of, like, setup on the repository itself, and then move on to…
237 00:31:29.710 ⇒ 00:31:36.810 Awaish Kumar: scaffolding for segment connectors, and then building… bringing in the… DVD…
238 00:31:37.370 ⇒ 00:31:42.269 Awaish Kumar: project kind of setup, and also bringing in the Dexter Set up in there, and…
239 00:31:42.270 ⇒ 00:31:47.219 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so what’s the timeline for this? Like, what are we thinking? How long is this gonna… I mean, yeah, so…
240 00:31:50.000 ⇒ 00:31:52.620 Awaish Kumar: So, like, if you’re… like…
241 00:31:52.970 ⇒ 00:32:01.350 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, when do you think we should start on it? I… like, we just built a dock, so I thought we should… we are waiting for approval, or something.
242 00:32:01.350 ⇒ 00:32:08.639 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, okay, let’s assume that, like, I’ll get approval today. So, like, assuming that you can start on it today, tomorrow, I…
243 00:32:08.990 ⇒ 00:32:16.619 Robert Tseng: I mean, we’re not asking to do any modeling right now, right? Like, it’s just… we’re just… we’re just trying to add the scaffolding. Like, I think that’s… that’s the highest priority right now.
244 00:32:17.790 ⇒ 00:32:22.719 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, but those, like, those things that I’ve said, like, that they need,
245 00:32:23.300 ⇒ 00:32:28.449 Awaish Kumar: those tools, right? So, GitHub changes, maybe just, you can say, okay, we’ll be done in a…
246 00:32:28.720 ⇒ 00:32:33.489 Awaish Kumar: in a day, right? It will take a few hours, like, maybe 1 hour, but…
247 00:32:33.700 ⇒ 00:32:35.430 Awaish Kumar: Let’s say a day for that.
248 00:32:36.960 ⇒ 00:32:39.150 Awaish Kumar: But after that, I can just…
249 00:32:39.400 ⇒ 00:32:46.279 Awaish Kumar: spin up dbt project. It will also take me, like, an hour or something to just spin up a project. But then.
250 00:32:47.020 ⇒ 00:32:52.940 Awaish Kumar: how it is going to work with our project, DVT project. Are we bringing in the full project in here?
251 00:32:53.820 ⇒ 00:32:56.930 Awaish Kumar: Because if… even if it’s just for marketing.
252 00:32:57.100 ⇒ 00:33:02.279 Awaish Kumar: marketing data for reverse ETL needs to connect with our orders data, it might.
253 00:33:02.280 ⇒ 00:33:14.940 Robert Tseng: Okay, so I’m gonna have you talk to… I mean, I hope it’s not Adam directly, but it feels like it’s gonna be him or somebody… it might be Surf, frankly. And so, assuming that you have, like, a technical counterpart on their part to make those decisions.
254 00:33:14.940 ⇒ 00:33:29.900 Robert Tseng: I mean, my guess is that we’re going to… they’re not gonna know any of these tools, like, they’re not gonna have an opinion on it. We’re just gonna have to tell them, this is how you set it up, this is what it’s gonna cost, we’re gonna take this time. So, I think you should just set it up the way that you want to, knowing that, like.
255 00:33:29.900 ⇒ 00:33:43.099 Robert Tseng: they are just going to contribute to their repo, or whatever Adam’s repo is, and, like, we need to find a way for it to, like, trickle into our managed repos. Like, that’s… that’s what it is. Like, I don’t want to maintain
256 00:33:43.100 ⇒ 00:33:56.250 Robert Tseng: theirs directly, like, it’s… I don’t think that’s fair. Like, I’m not gonna be reviewing 10 commits a day, or whatever. Like, it’s just not… this is not gonna happen. So, I only want to be reviewing the stuff that directly impacts what we have.
257 00:33:56.810 ⇒ 00:33:58.350 Robert Tseng: What we have in production.
258 00:33:59.390 ⇒ 00:34:06.160 Awaish Kumar: like, if we want to keep those separate, the only way is that from their repo, we just get the IDR, and then…
259 00:34:06.900 ⇒ 00:34:10.399 Awaish Kumar: Can you do the implementation in our own repositories.
260 00:34:11.090 ⇒ 00:34:22.840 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’ll float that as an idea. I don’t know if that’ll prove it, but okay, let me… I’ll… I’m gonna go and figure those things out on the call today, and then…
261 00:34:23.080 ⇒ 00:34:29.160 Robert Tseng: yeah, like, I’m gonna basically toss it over to you, you need to kind of… that’s… that’s, that’s the…
262 00:34:29.409 ⇒ 00:34:35.169 Robert Tseng: That’s the roadmap, I… like, I’m gonna… I’m relying on you to kind of set all that up.
263 00:34:36.770 ⇒ 00:34:38.150 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
264 00:34:38.610 ⇒ 00:34:39.290 Robert Tseng: Okay.
265 00:34:39.510 ⇒ 00:34:42.529 Robert Tseng: Cool. Alright, I gotta, I gotta jump. Thanks, guys.
266 00:34:42.969 ⇒ 00:34:43.810 Zoran Selinger: Alright, thanks, bud.