Meeting Title: EOM Service Line Review - Analytics Engineering Date: 2026-04-30 Meeting participants: Brylle Girang, Demilade Agboola, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:09.530 ⇒ 00:00:10.580 Brylle Girang: Hello?
2 00:00:15.770 ⇒ 00:00:16.860 Demilade Agboola: Aye.
3 00:00:19.410 ⇒ 00:00:21.110 Brylle Girang: I’m sending Odam a message.
4 00:00:21.600 ⇒ 00:00:23.190 Demilade Agboola: Okay, sounds good. How are you?
5 00:00:23.900 ⇒ 00:00:25.110 Brylle Girang: Good, good.
6 00:00:26.190 ⇒ 00:00:28.999 Brylle Girang: I had lots of calls early in the day.
7 00:00:29.980 ⇒ 00:00:30.930 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
8 00:00:31.810 ⇒ 00:00:36.910 Demilade Agboola: Do you get… what time do you have to go, like, do some heads-down work?
9 00:00:38.310 ⇒ 00:00:49.069 Brylle Girang: After this call, I’ll have had some work. I’m trying to, like, replicate how you’re doing it, and making sure that there’s, like, a focus time block. It’s really helping.
10 00:00:50.180 ⇒ 00:00:57.160 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah, it’s… I think one of the biggest problems is when you’re always, like, easily accessible.
11 00:00:57.220 ⇒ 00:01:15.439 Demilade Agboola: everyone just kind of throws time anywhere, and it’s hard to… I think for heads-down work, at least for me, it’s best when you have a rhythm. So if you have a 30 minutes meeting, a 30 minutes break, another 30 minutes meeting, another 30 minutes break, or a 1 hour break, and then… like, it’s very hard to, like, actually do a lot of work.
12 00:01:15.670 ⇒ 00:01:21.400 Demilade Agboola: But if you’re able to block off, say, 2, 3, 4 hours, it makes a huge difference.
13 00:01:22.080 ⇒ 00:01:37.769 Brylle Girang: Exactly. I hate that when there’s, like, 15 to 30 minutes gap between meetings. Like, I much prefer that it’s consecutive meetings instead of me, like, staring into the void for 15 minutes, because it’s hard to get back into the flow.
14 00:01:37.770 ⇒ 00:01:42.690 Demilade Agboola: Exactly, and sometimes the meetings you’re in also have, like, things you need to do.
15 00:01:43.020 ⇒ 00:01:53.700 Demilade Agboola: And so, it starts to add more things to do without any time to do those things that you need to do. So it’s one of those things where it’s always helpful once you’re able to…
16 00:01:54.100 ⇒ 00:01:55.839 Demilade Agboola: Get all your meetings done.
17 00:01:56.010 ⇒ 00:02:06.749 Demilade Agboola: you know, as best as possible, get them done as early in the morning as possible, and then you can now say, okay, you know what, this is my block to knock off… knock off things, and you can start going through things one by one.
18 00:02:07.460 ⇒ 00:02:12.780 Brylle Girang: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it… when did you start this? When did you start that system?
19 00:02:14.100 ⇒ 00:02:17.529 Demilade Agboola: I think, like… A month ago?
20 00:02:17.710 ⇒ 00:02:40.260 Demilade Agboola: I can’t remember what it was, but I know I got some feedback about some things being, like, slower, and I realized that my time wasn’t just being used efficiently. Like, I just knew, like, there was just so much… I was in so many meetings, I was in… well, yeah, it was default, actually. I just thought I was in so many meetings, and being, like, something’s happening in Eden, someone needs to toss some time on my calendar.
21 00:02:40.350 ⇒ 00:02:56.909 Demilade Agboola: Someone needs, a PR review, so, like, there’s just so much going on, and I’m hopping in so many meetings, some things are happening in huddles, some things are happening in Zoom meetings, like, impromptu meetings, and I was like, you know what, like, this doesn’t add…
22 00:02:57.800 ⇒ 00:03:01.469 Demilade Agboola: This is hard to track, number one, because, again.
23 00:03:01.470 ⇒ 00:03:02.060 Brylle Girang: Yep.
24 00:03:02.590 ⇒ 00:03:10.610 Demilade Agboola: it’s… if there’s so many things going on, it’s hard to track, like, oh, there’s a slack for 30 minutes here, or a Slack for 15 minutes here, or a random Zoom call.
25 00:03:10.720 ⇒ 00:03:19.450 Demilade Agboola: And if you’re not intentional about just, like, okay, this is when I’m working, and it has to be top priority to get into my work, into my focus time.
26 00:03:19.450 ⇒ 00:03:20.080 Brylle Girang: Yeah.
27 00:03:20.080 ⇒ 00:03:22.050 Demilade Agboola: You would end up, like, just wasting a lot of time.
28 00:03:22.650 ⇒ 00:03:28.100 Brylle Girang: Exactly. It feels like there has been so much that happened, but nothing gets done.
29 00:03:29.240 ⇒ 00:03:36.179 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s one of the worst things to do, because you’re busy but not productive.
30 00:03:36.840 ⇒ 00:03:38.830 Brylle Girang: Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
31 00:03:39.650 ⇒ 00:03:52.320 Brylle Girang: I sent Otam a message, but I think while we’re waiting for him, I wanted to touch on one thing. So, this end-of-month reviews, I hear you, I should have, you know, made sure that context has been shared earlier, but…
32 00:03:52.320 ⇒ 00:04:00.120 Brylle Girang: This is going to be the first round, and this is more about us exploring how we can improve the next month’s service line reviews.
33 00:04:00.380 ⇒ 00:04:19.150 Brylle Girang: Hopefully, in a month, it will be more data-driven, where we have a dashboard, we can see the number of escalations, the number of defects, and by defects and escalations, we mean that how many times does Utam or Robert need to jump into something to fix those stuff?
34 00:04:19.230 ⇒ 00:04:29.119 Brylle Girang: Because that’s something that we want to… we want to avoid moving forward. Like, CSOs and SLs should own whatever’s happening for their clients.
35 00:04:29.750 ⇒ 00:04:33.579 Brylle Girang: We’re trying to track those, the escalations, especially
36 00:04:33.820 ⇒ 00:04:46.600 Brylle Girang: We’re doing that via linear right now, so every time, you know, Otum sees something, and he needs to jump in, it’s being tracked via linear, and that’s, like, the best option that we have right now.
37 00:04:46.630 ⇒ 00:04:54.270 Brylle Girang: So far, I don’t see any for the clients that you’re in. There’s one for default, but that’s…
38 00:04:54.430 ⇒ 00:04:57.319 Brylle Girang: That’s mainly a Greg conversation.
39 00:04:57.560 ⇒ 00:05:02.670 Brylle Girang: But I just wanted to make sure that you know that piece that we’re trying to do.
40 00:05:03.490 ⇒ 00:05:06.780 Brylle Girang: And at the same time, I wanted to talk about, you know, playbooks.
41 00:05:06.900 ⇒ 00:05:10.419 Brylle Girang: And then the skills that we’re developing for ourselves.
42 00:05:13.700 ⇒ 00:05:14.170 Demilade Agboola: What’s on, did you.
43 00:05:14.170 ⇒ 00:05:14.609 Brylle Girang: You hear us?
44 00:05:14.610 ⇒ 00:05:15.600 Demilade Agboola: I’m dead.
45 00:05:19.040 ⇒ 00:05:20.420 Demilade Agboola: Oh, Tom, can you hear us?
46 00:05:21.490 ⇒ 00:05:22.620 Brylle Girang: Don’t think it can.
47 00:05:27.060 ⇒ 00:05:28.040 Demilade Agboola: Fascinating.
48 00:05:28.710 ⇒ 00:05:29.769 Brylle Girang: Can you hear us?
49 00:05:45.130 ⇒ 00:05:49.400 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry, I’m here. I just had to, like, change all my settings, so… alright.
50 00:05:49.400 ⇒ 00:05:50.110 Brylle Girang: Okay.
51 00:05:51.890 ⇒ 00:05:52.519 Uttam Kumaran: Just like… Definitely.
52 00:05:52.520 ⇒ 00:05:53.110 Brylle Girang: Oh, wonderful.
53 00:05:53.110 ⇒ 00:05:54.319 Uttam Kumaran: turn Bluetooth off.
54 00:05:55.820 ⇒ 00:06:14.090 Brylle Girang: So we just started talking about how we’re tracking escalations, how we’re tracking defects. Cool. And then, the next piece of those, Demi, for SLs, a major part of your responsibilities are building playbooks, offers, and then the skills for your service lines.
55 00:06:14.270 ⇒ 00:06:18.089 Brylle Girang: I think I’m going to pass the mic to you. How is it going right now?
56 00:06:19.980 ⇒ 00:06:22.289 Demilade Agboola: So to be honest.
57 00:06:22.500 ⇒ 00:06:28.980 Demilade Agboola: not great, because, like, I have… I have a note, like, a personal note, where, like, things that happen.
58 00:06:29.210 ⇒ 00:06:35.170 Demilade Agboola: I’m like, oh, a playbook here would be useful, skills here would be useful, so I do have, like, things I want to do.
59 00:06:35.470 ⇒ 00:06:40.840 Demilade Agboola: But especially, like, the past couple of weeks in particular, with, like, default.
60 00:06:41.080 ⇒ 00:06:57.489 Demilade Agboola: And just, like, hands-on day-to-day stuff, it’s been hard to, like, dissociate myself from, like, the work to be done, and say, hey, I want to do skills, because ultimately, we do need to have clients on board, and clients who are satisfied, or as best
61 00:06:58.300 ⇒ 00:07:03.750 Demilade Agboola: possible, so… Yeah, I think it’s one of those things where…
62 00:07:04.860 ⇒ 00:07:14.319 Demilade Agboola: the goal is obviously to, you know, to do more of that, and I will definitely get to that, but it’s just been so much harder to do, like…
63 00:07:15.570 ⇒ 00:07:16.579 Demilade Agboola: associated with.
64 00:07:16.580 ⇒ 00:07:21.069 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I know, I think… I think even, Debbie, what would be nice is, like, even if you’re, like.
65 00:07:21.330 ⇒ 00:07:23.860 Uttam Kumaran: Here are some playbooks I want to make.
66 00:07:25.020 ⇒ 00:07:28.480 Uttam Kumaran: Because then I can… one of us can support you in, like.
67 00:07:29.030 ⇒ 00:07:31.950 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s how you can make that in, like, 5 minutes.
68 00:07:32.230 ⇒ 00:07:42.409 Uttam Kumaran: Because I think one thing that everybody’s thinking about right now is, like, oh my god, it’s gonna take, like, hours and hours to make these. I actually think it’s much quicker than you think to spin those up.
69 00:07:42.690 ⇒ 00:07:47.730 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s where, even if we just start, like, even if we get, like, an inch forward, where, like, hey guys.
70 00:07:47.910 ⇒ 00:07:49.899 Uttam Kumaran: I spent 10 minutes, here’s, like.
71 00:07:50.510 ⇒ 00:07:52.950 Uttam Kumaran: 5 or 6 dbt playbooks I want to make.
72 00:07:53.730 ⇒ 00:07:57.810 Uttam Kumaran: We can show you, like, okay, here’s, like, the steps to basically execute that.
73 00:07:58.280 ⇒ 00:08:03.320 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m with you, like, we’re still in the same boat, like, I think we’re gonna get Nikhil, he just signed.
74 00:08:03.710 ⇒ 00:08:08.829 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna try to… I think we’re gonna continue to try to push others to do dbt work, but…
75 00:08:09.600 ⇒ 00:08:12.179 Uttam Kumaran: That probably would be my ask, is like.
76 00:08:12.640 ⇒ 00:08:14.850 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, let’s lower the stakes even more, like…
77 00:08:14.980 ⇒ 00:08:31.890 Uttam Kumaran: Just see if you can spend time doing that, because then we’ll show you, like, hey, in 30 minutes, you can create all these playbooks, because, like, I think… and every… all the SLs are sort of going through this process, like, you now see Awes is moving faster, but it took him, like, 3 weeks ago, it was, like, he was taking a lot of time on the playbook.
78 00:08:31.920 ⇒ 00:08:37.339 Uttam Kumaran: Zoron is starting to speed up as well, so that’s… you’ll see that’s how… it’ll happen.
79 00:08:37.820 ⇒ 00:08:42.429 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. I think, yeah, it’s…
80 00:08:43.280 ⇒ 00:08:48.460 Demilade Agboola: That, again, that’s the goal. The goal is, obviously, to get out more, like, playbooks, get out more skills.
81 00:08:48.640 ⇒ 00:08:53.739 Demilade Agboola: And just build more… Things around, like, that sort of thing.
82 00:08:53.960 ⇒ 00:08:54.810 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, like.
83 00:08:54.810 ⇒ 00:09:03.520 Uttam Kumaran: I guess one piece… sorry, one piece there, I just wanted… I expressed this, and I think, B, when we talked to Jasmine, I think this message really helped her.
84 00:09:03.780 ⇒ 00:09:05.339 Uttam Kumaran: This is… it’s like…
85 00:09:05.730 ⇒ 00:09:14.310 Uttam Kumaran: part of this is, like, I know you… I want Demi to be the most opinionated person about DBT and AE work in the company.
86 00:09:14.550 ⇒ 00:09:22.400 Uttam Kumaran: like, if there is a question about how we do modeling and how we do, like, DBT work or analytics engineering.
87 00:09:22.570 ⇒ 00:09:26.109 Uttam Kumaran: or diagnose AE issues.
88 00:09:26.310 ⇒ 00:09:30.739 Uttam Kumaran: like, I’m gonna basically be like, did you talk to Demi, or did you use his playbook?
89 00:09:31.220 ⇒ 00:09:43.879 Uttam Kumaran: Right. So consider, like, in a situation of an escalation, what I’m doing as head of delivery is I’m saying, cool, did you talk to your CSO? Did you talk to the SL that leads the service of which you’re executing?
90 00:09:44.170 ⇒ 00:09:45.779 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, if… then…
91 00:09:45.960 ⇒ 00:09:55.470 Uttam Kumaran: it’ll come to me. Adding in the playbooks and adding in the skills gives another opportunity for the IC to sort of fish for themselves, right?
92 00:09:55.680 ⇒ 00:10:03.060 Uttam Kumaran: And so, ultimately, you’re gonna create more leverage over your time if all the people doing dbt work are following your playbook.
93 00:10:03.200 ⇒ 00:10:10.040 Uttam Kumaran: Like, and ultimately, I’m gonna be able to say, no DBT work happens outside of your Demi’s playbooks.
94 00:10:11.920 ⇒ 00:10:16.299 Uttam Kumaran: Right, like, that’s actually what I… because then you, ultimately, your…
95 00:10:16.450 ⇒ 00:10:22.210 Uttam Kumaran: your purview on the way DBT work happens is the way it happens across
96 00:10:22.330 ⇒ 00:10:32.859 Uttam Kumaran: all of our business, right? Anytime someone buys dbt work. And so my ask for you is, like, envision a mode in where we have 20 clients where we’re doing analytics engineering work for.
97 00:10:32.980 ⇒ 00:10:47.019 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, don’t freak out right now when I say that. Like, think about how you gain leverage over that every single interaction, right? It has to be through your standards and your playbook.
98 00:10:48.060 ⇒ 00:10:52.389 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, that’s fair. I think it’s just,
99 00:10:52.580 ⇒ 00:10:57.410 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, definitely, just being able to, you know, get that time to sit down and, like.
100 00:10:57.680 ⇒ 00:11:02.830 Demilade Agboola: think about it, like, just for instance, like, this whole default thing has had me thinking about, okay, so…
101 00:11:03.020 ⇒ 00:11:09.849 Demilade Agboola: how much do we want to, like, build out, like, for instance, reporting layers versus, like, more, like, granular layers? Yeah.
102 00:11:10.220 ⇒ 00:11:10.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
103 00:11:12.800 ⇒ 00:11:20.739 Demilade Agboola: what clients would that fit best? Like, what use case would that fit best in? What’s the length of contract? How long are we there?
104 00:11:20.740 ⇒ 00:11:25.799 Uttam Kumaran: Also, like, does a client even… do we need to teach the client the trade-offs up front?
105 00:11:25.900 ⇒ 00:11:35.879 Uttam Kumaran: If they don’t particularly know, right? Because, like, Caitlin’s like, oh, we need to move stuff to Omni. I’m like, dude, you don’t know anything about what you’re talking about. You have no clue what you’re talking about.
106 00:11:36.080 ⇒ 00:11:42.400 Uttam Kumaran: Right? I’m like, you’re talking to people who have been doing DBT work for, like, half a decade or more.
107 00:11:42.530 ⇒ 00:11:49.640 Uttam Kumaran: and you’re like, I want to centralize my logic in the BI tool. Like, it’s, like, so antithetical. It’s like.
108 00:11:49.940 ⇒ 00:11:54.980 Uttam Kumaran: What? But then you could tell, she just wrote that with AI and was like, no, I like it this way.
109 00:11:55.240 ⇒ 00:12:05.280 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like, we’re in a jam. On one part, should we do it our way and make them angry? Should we do it their way and leave them in a bad spot? But this is where, like, both answers are wrong, and we’re… we’re now jammed.
110 00:12:05.470 ⇒ 00:12:08.650 Uttam Kumaran: So you’re right, you’re right, it’s like, how do we avoid that, you know?
111 00:12:08.650 ⇒ 00:12:12.619 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, and even just things around, like, how they want to…
112 00:12:14.330 ⇒ 00:12:23.049 Demilade Agboola: Like, how strict should we be to, like, the model data versus how much, like, flexibility should we give them in terms of, like, hey,
113 00:12:24.430 ⇒ 00:12:35.899 Demilade Agboola: Because one of the things they’ve been worried about is, like, oh, our data does this or is that, and I’m just like, ultimately, I’m more concerned about the quality of data, because once we’re sure that the numbers are right.
114 00:12:36.080 ⇒ 00:12:39.849 Demilade Agboola: The modularity or the granularity is… it’s easy to split.
115 00:12:40.040 ⇒ 00:12:40.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
116 00:12:40.360 ⇒ 00:12:54.890 Demilade Agboola: Like, once you… once the numbers match, it’s very easy to go, instead of viewing it per month, view it per day instead, or instead of viewing per day, view it by, like, per activity per day, which can then be summed up by, like, you know, whatever.
117 00:12:55.140 ⇒ 00:13:04.649 Demilade Agboola: But if the numbers are wrong, it doesn’t matter if you break the granularity, you’re always gonna get the wrong number. So that’s kind of what I’m trying to do with, right now. I think…
118 00:13:04.760 ⇒ 00:13:09.790 Demilade Agboola: yeah, like, like you said, like, playbooks on that would be great. Also, even just things around, like.
119 00:13:09.910 ⇒ 00:13:12.320 Demilade Agboola: for instance, a skill I’ve been thinking of is…
120 00:13:13.010 ⇒ 00:13:25.209 Demilade Agboola: like a dbt to linear… since we have, like, linear MCPs, once we make pushes and PRs get merged, we can have that reflecting tickets, so we can say, hey, this ticket is not officially done, because the PRs.
121 00:13:25.210 ⇒ 00:13:25.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
122 00:13:25.770 ⇒ 00:13:36.630 Demilade Agboola: And I know that Linea has, like, there are ways in which you can integrate it, but I feel like if we already have MTPs, like, let’s just use that knowledge, so at the end of the day, you can do a run.
123 00:13:36.810 ⇒ 00:13:43.510 Demilade Agboola: And then we can merge, like, we can mark some linear tickets as done. I have a couple of… again, I have ideas.
124 00:13:43.510 ⇒ 00:13:49.770 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, I know you do. This is where, like, I’m not worried about it, but this is where I want you to almost, like…
125 00:13:50.290 ⇒ 00:13:55.970 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna… my job is to show you that you can write a playbook in 5 minutes.
126 00:13:56.210 ⇒ 00:14:09.479 Uttam Kumaran: But… and so, if I… if you just send the ideas, like, even this idea, all I want you to do is be, like, send it. I think, B, what we can do is just show Demi, here’s, like, step-by-step how you can just rip this.
127 00:14:09.930 ⇒ 00:14:22.470 Uttam Kumaran: you’ll see that it’s quick, and then you’ll get addicted to it. And then what we’re gonna do is I’m just gonna literally say, no work happens outside of playbooks. And I’m, like, looking forward to the day where it’s like, oh, read the handbook.
128 00:14:22.580 ⇒ 00:14:29.970 Uttam Kumaran: Like, this is a solved problem, and then we… what we’re trying to do is actually search for the scenarios that aren’t in the playbooks.
129 00:14:30.300 ⇒ 00:14:31.240 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
130 00:14:31.920 ⇒ 00:14:37.779 Uttam Kumaran: So, that’s, like, that’s… that’s, like, what… I would, you know, prefer.
131 00:14:38.890 ⇒ 00:14:40.290 Demilade Agboola: Okay, that’s fair.
132 00:14:41.250 ⇒ 00:14:57.310 Uttam Kumaran: And so, for me, on my side, like, what I’m measuring is escalations, right? So, for example, like, I think when I go to Awash, when we talk to Awash about his service line, I’m like, yo, the Magic Spoon thing, that’s, like, a complete escalation that, like, you should have owned.
133 00:14:57.760 ⇒ 00:15:07.030 Uttam Kumaran: now I understand, like, we don’t have any other DEs, and we’re, like, figuring it out. Okay, but, like, still, we’re gonna log as an escalation, and then we’re gonna discuss in these monthly reviews, like.
134 00:15:07.360 ⇒ 00:15:17.590 Uttam Kumaran: how do we… how could we have avoided that escalation? How could we have, like, resulted in a playbook or a skill, right? So that’s, like, that’s basically, like, what I’m gonna try to do.
135 00:15:18.200 ⇒ 00:15:28.139 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah. Also, just to confirm, Nikhil is coming in as a DE, but, like, how… what are… how are we gonna, like, split his hours in that sense?
136 00:15:28.140 ⇒ 00:15:36.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is where, dude, honestly, I feel like our business is heading in a way where engineers are gonna be able to fit 2-3 services each.
137 00:15:37.070 ⇒ 00:15:38.100 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
138 00:15:38.100 ⇒ 00:15:39.170 Uttam Kumaran: So…
139 00:15:40.050 ⇒ 00:15:52.829 Uttam Kumaran: I’m less concerned about his title being DE, and that, oh, he’s only DE, more concerned about what is he capable of, and where do we need time. It’s clear he could do both, so…
140 00:15:52.970 ⇒ 00:15:55.619 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, he should probably split time.
141 00:15:55.760 ⇒ 00:15:58.440 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, the reason why I’m asking is part of…
142 00:15:58.740 ⇒ 00:16:06.209 Demilade Agboola: like, for instance, default. Part of why, like, I’m not leaning as heavily on Mustafa, is because…
143 00:16:06.400 ⇒ 00:16:10.580 Demilade Agboola: like, at the end of the day, Mustafa is really not, like, an A, and…
144 00:16:10.580 ⇒ 00:16:11.630 Uttam Kumaran: You’re right, you’re right.
145 00:16:11.630 ⇒ 00:16:17.769 Demilade Agboola: I feel like there are times when he gets jammed, or he can get jammed. Like, for instance, this whole BDR stuff.
146 00:16:17.770 ⇒ 00:16:22.740 Uttam Kumaran: No, he’s smart, he’s smart, but he’s not… doesn’t have the subject matter expertise.
147 00:16:22.740 ⇒ 00:16:41.940 Demilade Agboola: Exactly. And so, like, for instance, if someone can come in and just be like, hey, I’m going to handle the modeling on this, and I can truly just trust that, like, any client questions about, like, why this was done, what does this represent, how we make these changes, they understand it.
148 00:16:42.070 ⇒ 00:16:50.710 Demilade Agboola: and then they can, like, use AI or whatever to get it done, but, like, they have a fundamental understanding of what is going on. I think…
149 00:16:51.110 ⇒ 00:17:06.150 Demilade Agboola: that would give me, like, a bit of peace of mind to be like, okay, I can hand this over, and just be like, okay, whatever happens, happens, you know? They… they should have the skill or knowledge to be able to handle that. I think my worry, Mustafa sometimes is just, like.
150 00:17:06.150 ⇒ 00:17:06.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
151 00:17:07.599 ⇒ 00:17:14.279 Demilade Agboola: If questions come about, on the spot, it’s kind of… and if I don’t do it myself.
152 00:17:14.460 ⇒ 00:17:23.690 Demilade Agboola: then I’m now not in a position to be able to, like, quickly bridge the gap and respond. You know, so it’s one of those things where, like, it puts me in a situation where I feel the need to have
153 00:17:23.780 ⇒ 00:17:37.640 Demilade Agboola: like, a bird’s eye view on everything, which obviously, or like, not necessarily a bird’s eye view, like, an in-person view. Like, I need to come, like, and be in the project. And sometimes, you know, I just would prefer, like, if I’m going to.
154 00:17:37.640 ⇒ 00:17:42.490 Uttam Kumaran: No, you need someone that’s, like, a hardcore AE. Like, I think we’re… Yeah, I’m like…
155 00:17:43.250 ⇒ 00:17:47.320 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna… we’re… we’re getting… yeah, we’re gonna do that. We’re almost there.
156 00:17:47.430 ⇒ 00:17:53.429 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, but that’s where it’s, like, what I’m hopeful for is that that’s gonna buy you more time.
157 00:17:53.550 ⇒ 00:18:07.930 Uttam Kumaran: And I also do… this is where also, like, you know, the default situation is a good situation where, like, I wish you were involved. I mean, this is a long-term client, but, like, for example, anytime we sell AE work, I want you to read the SOW.
158 00:18:08.430 ⇒ 00:18:13.220 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I want Robert and me to be like, Demi, does this read well? Like, can you deliver this?
159 00:18:13.410 ⇒ 00:18:23.419 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And, like, I want to bring you guys up, so that you’re gonna see, like, yo, we’re… I’m telling you, we’re gonna… we’re starting to sell, like, a lot.
160 00:18:23.670 ⇒ 00:18:42.090 Uttam Kumaran: And I want you guys to be prepared. Like, one thing I told Jasmine also is, like, my job is, like, I can wait until we’re… we’re, like, we have 30 clients to then have this conversation, or I can tell you now, it’s, like, about to happen. Like, we’ve never had this much demand.
161 00:18:42.350 ⇒ 00:18:45.399 Uttam Kumaran: Like, and the last time we had this much demand was last month.
162 00:18:45.520 ⇒ 00:18:53.469 Uttam Kumaran: like, it’s gonna start to move, and so I want you guys to be prepared to get jammed. Like, it’s going to happen, and so…
163 00:18:54.320 ⇒ 00:19:00.460 Uttam Kumaran: taking the playbooks and skill stuff seriously, you’re gonna see as the leverage, because I’m gonna put people under you.
164 00:19:00.790 ⇒ 00:19:08.040 Uttam Kumaran: And into your service, but they’re gonna start doing their own plays, right? Versus, like.
165 00:19:08.150 ⇒ 00:19:10.380 Uttam Kumaran: what’s the coach say? You know?
166 00:19:10.550 ⇒ 00:19:17.179 Uttam Kumaran: And I really want to prevent that. I want people to have intuition, right? But, like, I don’t want people to…
167 00:19:17.340 ⇒ 00:19:19.019 Uttam Kumaran: Be developing, like.
168 00:19:19.560 ⇒ 00:19:30.739 Uttam Kumaran: their repo structure, they’re on their own, based on what they like to do, right? Like, we want to remove those decisions from them, and you’re the most opinionated person on the way it should be done.
169 00:19:31.340 ⇒ 00:19:35.819 Uttam Kumaran: It may not seem like that now, but I’m telling you, like.
170 00:19:36.730 ⇒ 00:19:41.240 Uttam Kumaran: I’m on the front lines of the sales, and it’s gonna… it’s starting to grow.
171 00:19:41.580 ⇒ 00:19:45.910 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re starting to push more and more into, like, AI,
172 00:19:45.930 ⇒ 00:20:01.979 Uttam Kumaran: not in terms of, like, oh, like, dbt AI, that’s not, like, a thing, but our work is gonna go to support context engineering. Like, models to support AI, to chat over data, and to pull insights. So it’s, like, the same work, but it’s, like.
173 00:20:02.250 ⇒ 00:20:07.639 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… part of this is also, like, can you position your service as, like, enabling that, you know?
174 00:20:07.790 ⇒ 00:20:11.930 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, so in terms of, like, one of the things is something you could talk to the marketing team about.
175 00:20:12.180 ⇒ 00:20:26.240 Demilade Agboola: But one of the things we need to, like… there are studies that have shown that, like, if you use AI over, like, raw data, so, like, if you just have, like, ingest all the data from, like, different places, Salesforce, blah blah blah, Stripe, all of that, and then you ask questions of it.
176 00:20:27.390 ⇒ 00:20:31.020 Demilade Agboola: The answers you get, the accuracy of your answers increase.
177 00:20:31.220 ⇒ 00:20:46.080 Demilade Agboola: the more, like, modeling and context has been built, because that’s what, like, helps prevent you from making, like, context mistakes, business logic mistakes, and that’s where you really want to get to. And so being able to kind of just show
178 00:20:46.130 ⇒ 00:20:53.689 Demilade Agboola: That, like… like, in terms of pitching, like, data modeling as a service, or, like, why doesn’t modeling, matter so much?
179 00:20:53.750 ⇒ 00:20:57.039 Demilade Agboola: Just showing them, like, hey, like, the world is moving really fast.
180 00:20:57.270 ⇒ 00:21:03.969 Demilade Agboola: And I know, like, everyone wants to kind of, like, ask questions of their data, but here are the numbers of, like.
181 00:21:04.100 ⇒ 00:21:10.739 Demilade Agboola: how accurate… I think I saw on LinkedIn recently, I think it was, like, it jumps from, like, 30% to, like, 70% accuracy.
182 00:21:10.740 ⇒ 00:21:11.400 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
183 00:21:11.400 ⇒ 00:21:13.850 Demilade Agboola: Once you add, like, context, and you model.
184 00:21:13.850 ⇒ 00:21:23.889 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, dude. Like, so that’s the semantic layer, that’s, like, the column descriptions, table descriptions, join descriptions, gotchas, sample data, right?
185 00:21:24.210 ⇒ 00:21:24.739 Demilade Agboola: So, total.
186 00:21:24.740 ⇒ 00:21:25.570 Uttam Kumaran: Totally right.
187 00:21:25.570 ⇒ 00:21:36.070 Demilade Agboola: if we’re able to, like, push it, like, so, like, none of us should just pitch data modeling as a service, I mean, yes, we should, but, like, ultimately, the context is, hey, how… you want to enable AI, you want to ask.
188 00:21:36.070 ⇒ 00:21:43.700 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s context engineering. You’re gonna see Robert is coming back from this conference. He literally called me, he’s like, dude, we’re a context engineering business.
189 00:21:43.820 ⇒ 00:21:49.270 Uttam Kumaran: like, He’s like, data, modern data stack, shit like that is, like.
190 00:21:49.860 ⇒ 00:21:51.660 Demilade Agboola: So, 2018. Yeah.
191 00:21:51.660 ⇒ 00:21:54.639 Uttam Kumaran: It’s so 2018, it’s so 2020, it’s like…
192 00:21:54.820 ⇒ 00:22:03.020 Uttam Kumaran: we are a context engineering business. All of our customers are starting to ask us, hey, we want to pipe this into Claude, and…
193 00:22:03.020 ⇒ 00:22:15.930 Uttam Kumaran: we have to go to them and be like, you can’t just throw CSVs into here. Like, you need a system. You still need great modeling for relational data, you need log-based data, you need transcripts and context.
194 00:22:16.250 ⇒ 00:22:20.919 Uttam Kumaran: So, you’re… you’re spot on. And so that’s what, like, I think, like.
195 00:22:21.410 ⇒ 00:22:27.410 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, this… you know what I’m gonna say, like, you have all the answers, dude, it’s just like, I need to get… I’m trying to get you leverage.
196 00:22:27.790 ⇒ 00:22:28.949 Uttam Kumaran: through people.
197 00:22:29.330 ⇒ 00:22:33.649 Uttam Kumaran: But also, like, I think you’ll be surprised in what you can accomplish even in, like.
198 00:22:33.970 ⇒ 00:22:35.150 Uttam Kumaran: An hour a day.
199 00:22:35.690 ⇒ 00:22:36.469 Uttam Kumaran: You know.
200 00:22:36.890 ⇒ 00:22:37.860 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, sure.
201 00:22:37.860 ⇒ 00:22:51.439 Uttam Kumaran: That’s probably what would be my ask. And then another ask is, like, if you feel like what would be easier is, like, if me and you just grab 30 minutes a day for, like, the next 2 weeks, and that time, we literally say, like, all we’re gonna do is work on
202 00:22:51.890 ⇒ 00:22:53.310 Uttam Kumaran: AE Playbooks?
203 00:22:53.710 ⇒ 00:22:54.050 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
204 00:22:54.050 ⇒ 00:22:55.290 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy to do that.
205 00:22:55.390 ⇒ 00:22:58.349 Uttam Kumaran: And if that helps you to basically be like, this time is blocked.
206 00:22:59.070 ⇒ 00:23:01.399 Uttam Kumaran: I’m, like, able to just, like, break apart.
207 00:23:01.950 ⇒ 00:23:10.300 Uttam Kumaran: you know if you come to me in a meeting, I’ll break you out of whatever this… whatever the current thing is, and if you want to just work on playbooks, I’m happy to offer that.
208 00:23:11.220 ⇒ 00:23:16.089 Demilade Agboola: Alright, sounds good, then. Yeah, I… yes.
209 00:23:16.090 ⇒ 00:23:19.800 Uttam Kumaran: It doesn’t need to be daily or whatever, but, like, I want to give you every weapon.
210 00:23:20.010 ⇒ 00:23:20.590 Demilade Agboola: to.
211 00:23:20.590 ⇒ 00:23:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: because… Yeah, like, and so one other thing is, like, I’m gonna move all of my time…
212 00:23:27.320 ⇒ 00:23:31.080 Uttam Kumaran: To basically either sales, or focus on
213 00:23:31.240 ⇒ 00:23:36.609 Uttam Kumaran: y’all, or build out the AI platform for, like, the next thing we’re gonna sell.
214 00:23:36.800 ⇒ 00:23:45.310 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, I’m… I’m focusing as much of my time on you, Greg, Awash, Jasmine, like.
215 00:23:46.070 ⇒ 00:23:57.110 Uttam Kumaran: as much of my time as possible to get you guys to show, like, what the benefits of this are, and to enable you. So I’m not spending my time with the people that are, like, B and C players.
216 00:23:57.220 ⇒ 00:24:11.969 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that’s going to Brile, that’s going to Rico, that’s going to Kayla, like, my time is shifting to just focus on the delivery leads and the leadership in the company, and then to go focus on selling the next biggest deal. So, like.
217 00:24:12.280 ⇒ 00:24:14.150 Uttam Kumaran: That’s my commitment.
218 00:24:14.560 ⇒ 00:24:18.500 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m like, you take advantage of that. You know?
219 00:24:18.690 ⇒ 00:24:26.869 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, so I will, I’ll book that probably, like, 2 times a week. So, like, 30 minutes, 2 times a week, where we can just kind of sit down.
220 00:24:27.190 ⇒ 00:24:31.790 Demilade Agboola: Churn through ideas, and just kind of, like, knocks them off the park.
221 00:24:32.440 ⇒ 00:24:32.990 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
222 00:24:33.290 ⇒ 00:24:34.030 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
223 00:24:34.390 ⇒ 00:24:35.060 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
224 00:24:36.150 ⇒ 00:24:41.880 Uttam Kumaran: What’s the, tell me about the Minnesota-Malta situation. What’s the… what’s the, like, TLDR?
225 00:24:42.160 ⇒ 00:24:43.380 Uttam Kumaran: Are you moving here?
226 00:24:44.100 ⇒ 00:24:48.319 Demilade Agboola: Well, I’m… The plan is actually… I plan to visit…
227 00:24:48.550 ⇒ 00:24:53.750 Demilade Agboola: Minnesota, so, in terms of, like, move, like.
228 00:24:53.880 ⇒ 00:24:57.599 Demilade Agboola: I’m trying to move to Spain, right? Okay. I’ve been.
229 00:24:57.600 ⇒ 00:24:58.589 Uttam Kumaran: to Barca?
230 00:24:59.690 ⇒ 00:25:01.670 Demilade Agboola: Not sure what city yet. Probably Barcelona.
231 00:25:01.670 ⇒ 00:25:02.370 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
232 00:25:02.370 ⇒ 00:25:08.270 Demilade Agboola: Not sure, I won’t see it yet. But, like, they have, like, a better, like, Nomad package, like.
233 00:25:09.060 ⇒ 00:25:16.890 Demilade Agboola: precedency than, like, Malta, and I just want to try something new, probably learn a new language as well, so that should be fun.
234 00:25:17.110 ⇒ 00:25:27.629 Demilade Agboola: So that’s kind of what I’m trying to get done, but then I’m also trying to visit, like, Minnesota, because I also have to go to Nigeria at the end of the month, like, next month, because my friend’s getting married.
235 00:25:27.830 ⇒ 00:25:33.389 Demilade Agboola: So, like, there’s a lot of traveling, so potentially I’ll probably be, like, in Minnesota this weekend,
236 00:25:33.550 ⇒ 00:25:36.560 Demilade Agboola: I will literally just probably go like that.
237 00:25:36.560 ⇒ 00:25:37.889 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no way, okay.
238 00:25:38.720 ⇒ 00:25:42.130 Demilade Agboola: Nice. I’ll be back to, like, the 27th, 28th?
239 00:25:42.340 ⇒ 00:25:43.039 Demilade Agboola: Before I go tonight.
240 00:25:43.040 ⇒ 00:25:43.819 Uttam Kumaran: Of May.
241 00:25:44.130 ⇒ 00:25:47.479 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, and then early June, I should be back to Malta.
242 00:25:47.790 ⇒ 00:25:55.290 Demilade Agboola: And hopefully, like, things have resolved, so I can go to Spain, get… because the annoying part of the Spanish…
243 00:25:55.760 ⇒ 00:26:01.749 Demilade Agboola: normal process is that to submit your application, you have to be in Spain. It’s a weird process.
244 00:26:01.750 ⇒ 00:26:02.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
245 00:26:02.690 ⇒ 00:26:05.480 Demilade Agboola: But you have to, like, there has to be proof that you.
246 00:26:05.480 ⇒ 00:26:13.630 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, I’ve heard a lot about… some of my friends tried to move to Spain with their families, and it was, like, brutal. They couldn’t even, like, figure it out, they came back.
247 00:26:14.050 ⇒ 00:26:15.849 Uttam Kumaran: And, yeah, it’s…
248 00:26:17.120 ⇒ 00:26:24.129 Demilade Agboola: So I’m just trying all of that, so for now, like, Spain is, like, the next, place where I’m looking at.
249 00:26:24.630 ⇒ 00:26:25.850 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
250 00:26:26.040 ⇒ 00:26:26.700 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
251 00:26:27.520 ⇒ 00:26:28.850 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, great.
252 00:26:31.530 ⇒ 00:26:32.320 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
253 00:26:32.750 ⇒ 00:26:38.520 Demilade Agboola: Alright, so I will throw some time on your calendar. Do you have any preference from what time I should throw on your calendar?
254 00:26:40.380 ⇒ 00:26:42.960 Uttam Kumaran: If you can try to give me the first…
255 00:26:43.510 ⇒ 00:26:51.359 Uttam Kumaran: 2 hours of my day, just so I can get some work done. The rest is totally free, and you know I’m up, like, forever, so…
256 00:26:52.060 ⇒ 00:26:52.750 Demilade Agboola: Gotcha.
257 00:26:53.070 ⇒ 00:26:56.100 Demilade Agboola: Alright then, so I’ll toss some time on…
258 00:26:56.340 ⇒ 00:27:00.769 Demilade Agboola: Okay, I’ve seen that you’ve put some focus time as well, so I’ll just, like, toss some time after your focus time.
259 00:27:02.480 ⇒ 00:27:03.380 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
260 00:27:03.820 ⇒ 00:27:04.790 Demilade Agboola: a novelty.
261 00:27:10.610 ⇒ 00:27:11.440 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
262 00:27:11.640 ⇒ 00:27:13.260 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, dude. Thank you.
263 00:27:13.480 ⇒ 00:27:14.789 Demilade Agboola: Thank you. Have a great day.
264 00:27:14.790 ⇒ 00:27:15.600 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll talk to you soon.
265 00:27:15.900 ⇒ 00:27:16.280 Demilade Agboola: Alright.
266 00:27:16.280 ⇒ 00:27:16.940 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.