Meeting Title: Brainforge Quarterly Insurance Call Date: 2026-04-28 Meeting participants: Rico Rejoso, iberrigan


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1 00:02:45.210 00:02:46.860 iberrigan: Hey, what’s going on, Rico?

2 00:02:47.530 00:02:48.500 Rico Rejoso: Hey, Ian.

3 00:02:51.990 00:02:53.199 Rico Rejoso: Oh, can you hear me?

4 00:02:53.870 00:02:54.950 iberrigan: Yes, sir.

5 00:02:55.160 00:02:58.389 Rico Rejoso: All right sorry, this was so sudden.

6 00:02:58.700 00:02:59.330 Rico Rejoso: So what.

7 00:02:59.330 00:03:00.779 iberrigan: You’re good, no worries.

8 00:03:01.030 00:03:06.370 Rico Rejoso: Okay, great. I’m sorry, also, I can’t turn on my camera, I’m having a problem with it, I just ordered a new one.

9 00:03:07.350 00:03:08.240 iberrigan: Okay.

10 00:03:09.040 00:03:09.930 Rico Rejoso: Okay, so.

11 00:03:09.930 00:03:10.460 iberrigan: job.

12 00:03:10.930 00:03:22.780 Rico Rejoso: This is a quick meeting just to, make sure that our insurance is aligned with the changes that we have in Brainforge. Also, I just saw the email that you sent regarding the BAA review.

13 00:03:24.020 00:03:30.790 Rico Rejoso: the facts there also, so I need to go over this one and also discuss with our legal team and our legal counsel internally.

14 00:03:33.080 00:03:34.460 Rico Rejoso: Okay,

15 00:03:35.140 00:03:47.940 Rico Rejoso: Again, this call is to make sure that you are updated with all the changes, and reinforce at the same time, consult if you need any information, documentation from us to make sure that our policies align with what we’re offering, or the service that we’re offering to our clients.

16 00:03:48.070 00:03:48.750 Rico Rejoso: Right?

17 00:03:48.880 00:03:54.289 Rico Rejoso: So we have a few questions in mind as well that we need clarification or confirmation from you.

18 00:03:54.710 00:03:56.070 Rico Rejoso: By the way,

19 00:03:56.360 00:04:02.490 Rico Rejoso: Forgot to introduce myself. My name is Rico, I’m part of the operations team and based in the Philippines.

20 00:04:05.530 00:04:06.820 iberrigan: Okay, cool.

21 00:04:07.040 00:04:08.000 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, so bear with me.

22 00:04:08.000 00:04:14.700 iberrigan: I feel like we’ve talked in the past, if I’m not mistaken, but maybe… maybe it was just over email. It’s been a while now, so…

23 00:04:15.130 00:04:15.800 Rico Rejoso: Yeah.

24 00:04:16.170 00:04:21.769 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, I’ll, I guess just through email, perhaps.

25 00:04:23.650 00:04:38.630 Rico Rejoso: So, I’m also reviewing some of the insurance that we need, here in Brain Forge. Also, I haven’t taken a look at the policy that we have, so if you can also give me, like, a quick overview of the policy that we have right now with Brainforge, and,

26 00:04:39.760 00:04:40.949 Rico Rejoso: We can start off with that.

27 00:04:41.760 00:04:43.260 iberrigan: Yeah, so here, let me,

28 00:04:44.260 00:04:46.139 iberrigan: Let me send you this real quick.

29 00:04:53.450 00:05:00.779 iberrigan: I’m gonna send it in the chat, because I have a… I can have it listed out for you, just so you can reference it, a little bit easier.

30 00:05:03.560 00:05:04.930 iberrigan: One second.

31 00:05:07.820 00:05:08.940 iberrigan: Okay.

32 00:05:18.430 00:05:19.230 iberrigan: Oops.

33 00:06:20.860 00:06:25.900 iberrigan: Changing a few of the dates here… Conceding to London.

34 00:06:29.550 00:06:31.680 iberrigan: Older documents…

35 00:06:40.990 00:06:46.970 iberrigan: I might be able to just send you the actual policies themselves. Let me…

36 00:06:47.450 00:06:50.650 iberrigan: If not, that’s fine. We’ll just do this.

37 00:06:54.920 00:06:56.440 iberrigan: Of course we do.

38 00:06:58.260 00:07:00.709 iberrigan: Hey, Mike, let me give you a call back, I’m on a meeting.

39 00:07:01.380 00:07:03.040 iberrigan: Alright, brother, I’ll call you soon. Bye.

40 00:07:07.430 00:07:08.760 iberrigan: Let’s see here…

41 00:07:30.350 00:07:32.729 iberrigan: What’s it gonna be like, if that’s the same guy calling me?

42 00:07:33.190 00:07:34.140 iberrigan: Swear.

43 00:08:00.840 00:08:01.520 Rico Rejoso: Beautiful.

44 00:08:20.260 00:08:21.290 iberrigan: There you go.

45 00:08:37.780 00:08:44.129 iberrigan: Okay, so that’ll give you, like, a decent, you know… Just snapshot.

46 00:08:45.120 00:08:46.280 Rico Rejoso: Oh, okay.

47 00:08:49.320 00:08:50.180 Rico Rejoso: I mean, that’s…

48 00:08:50.180 00:08:52.589 iberrigan: basically the program right now, yeah.

49 00:08:57.010 00:09:03.920 iberrigan: And it’s good, I mean, I think, you know, it’s solid, for sure. It’s, you know, it’s…

50 00:09:04.260 00:09:18.319 iberrigan: I remember there was a few larger clients that you guys brought on that were requiring limits that were pretty, you know, or higher than you would see if you were a startup or whatever, not dealing with sophisticated vendors or clients, but…

51 00:09:18.320 00:09:25.119 iberrigan: you know, this program has been able to hold up and adhere to those requirements, so I think it’s in a good spot.

52 00:09:25.370 00:09:29.379 iberrigan: The only thing, as I mentioned in the email.

53 00:09:29.880 00:09:38.890 iberrigan: after reviewing that BAA, was… I think there could be value in increasing the cyber limits a little bit.

54 00:09:39.060 00:09:45.300 iberrigan: Especially dealing with HIPAA stuff and, you know, a lot of peat, a lot of,

55 00:09:45.460 00:09:49.710 iberrigan: you know, PII, Yeah, it’s just…

56 00:09:49.990 00:09:54.629 iberrigan: you can never have too much, you know? And the issue with the…

57 00:09:54.730 00:09:59.380 iberrigan: the HIPAA stuff is that there’s no real… there’s no cap on

58 00:10:00.020 00:10:02.120 iberrigan: You know, the losses that could…

59 00:10:02.730 00:10:05.240 iberrigan: Could, you know, be brought to the table.

60 00:10:05.870 00:10:21.069 iberrigan: if you’re working with any, you know, business associates, or you have any vendors, like, and they slip up, or, you know, information gets out, or whatever, like, there’s no cap on that. So, $3 million, although it seems like it’s a lot of money, it very well could be…

61 00:10:21.440 00:10:22.720 iberrigan: burned through.

62 00:10:24.030 00:10:24.460 Rico Rejoso: Yeah.

63 00:10:24.460 00:10:35.949 iberrigan: if there’s a big issue, and when you’re bringing in other parties, and, you know, they’re acting on your behalf, or servicing your clients on, you know, under Brainforge, like, at the end of the day, everybody’s gonna get sued.

64 00:10:37.840 00:10:46.719 iberrigan: And it’s just unfortunate that that’s how it works, but I… I personally think that if… if your legal counsel, or Holly… Holly is the,

65 00:10:47.220 00:10:49.569 iberrigan: She’s, like, the legal team, right?

66 00:10:49.760 00:10:50.380 Rico Rejoso: Yeah.

67 00:10:50.680 00:10:51.480 Rico Rejoso: Nope.

68 00:10:51.480 00:10:57.689 iberrigan: So if she, you know, in the BAA draft that I was provided to review, you know, they mentioned

69 00:10:57.990 00:11:03.300 iberrigan: She was mentioning $5 million in aggregate limits for the cyber for any…

70 00:11:03.510 00:11:09.050 iberrigan: You know, business associates, so if that’s already being, you know, requested.

71 00:11:09.250 00:11:12.310 iberrigan: On that draft, you know, that makes me think it could be…

72 00:11:12.530 00:11:20.059 iberrigan: Meaningful to increase your cyber program by $2 million so that it’s, you know, in line with that request.

73 00:11:20.220 00:11:29.870 iberrigan: I wouldn’t recommend going down on it, down to 3, you know, it’s kind of a big deal. That’s the largest exposure area, so…

74 00:11:30.320 00:11:37.279 iberrigan: That’s… I think that’s the main concern right now. Aside from that, it’s just making sure all the…

75 00:11:37.520 00:11:47.460 iberrigan: you know, the Delaware C-Corp entity structure has been relayed to all the insurance carriers so that the policies are updated, and that’s in progress right now.

76 00:11:47.630 00:11:50.920 iberrigan: I don’t foresee that being a big problem.

77 00:11:51.090 00:11:51.810 Rico Rejoso: Great.

78 00:11:52.360 00:12:08.700 iberrigan: you know, we… a lot of… a lot of times, if you get a new EIN number, or, like, you know, there’s some deeper changes made than just, like, the name of the company, there, you know, that would require a lot of restructuring and, like, canceling all the insurance policies and, you know.

79 00:12:08.830 00:12:15.910 iberrigan: getting new ones set up and everything, but since there was no new EIN number, I think we’ll be pretty…

80 00:12:16.130 00:12:18.170 iberrigan: Pretty smooth transition there.

81 00:12:18.420 00:12:24.830 Rico Rejoso: Okay, yeah, that’s one thing, because I think the major changes was us converting into C-Corp and changing the address.

82 00:12:24.960 00:12:40.109 Rico Rejoso: Right? Because right now, we’re using UTAM’s residence address as the company address, so we come up with a virtual address, and we’re also… I’m also talking to finance if we need to change some of our documents, since we have made the changes on the address. So first, it.

83 00:12:40.110 00:12:40.560 iberrigan: together.

84 00:12:40.560 00:12:55.630 Rico Rejoso: address. Right now, finance mentioned, or are also, suggesting that we use a different Texas address still, okay, since Delaware is just the registered address, and we’re still… the headquarter will still be in Aust… will still be in Texas.

85 00:12:55.630 00:13:02.720 iberrigan: Right, right. Okay, and do you have that updated address yet? Because I’ll definitely want the carriers to know that as well.

86 00:13:02.720 00:13:07.790 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, I have the address already, but I don’t have it yet in our documentation, such as the,

87 00:13:08.840 00:13:13.000 Rico Rejoso: What was the… W… what was the other one? Sorry.

88 00:13:13.370 00:13:14.550 iberrigan: W9?

89 00:13:14.550 00:13:23.950 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, we haven’t made the changes yet on that. I just forwarded the new address. Just got it yesterday. Just forwarded it to Finance to come up with the new W-9. Do you need it as well?

90 00:13:23.950 00:13:27.679 iberrigan: Okay, yeah, yeah, please send me that,

91 00:13:28.040 00:13:41.899 iberrigan: That won’t be… once again, that’s not a huge issue. People, you know, companies change headquarters or locations pretty frequently, so it’s not like it would destroy the insurance program if you changed the corporate address. We can obviously,

92 00:13:42.230 00:13:53.789 iberrigan: We can obviously change that, you know, after the policies get updated to the new name, that’s fine. Just send me that whenever you can, add that to the list. It’s always good to have a W-9 on file.

93 00:13:54.000 00:13:58.440 iberrigan: On our end, because they might ask for it, the insurance companies, just to confirm.

94 00:13:58.610 00:14:04.349 Rico Rejoso: Okay, I got you that. And also, along with the changes made, that’s when we can get our updated COI, right?

95 00:14:04.950 00:14:10.660 iberrigan: Exactly, yeah, once all the carriers make that change official, we’ll go ahead and send you,

96 00:14:10.660 00:14:26.680 iberrigan: updated certificates for, you know, one for you just for reference only, and then with nobody listed as the, you know, certificate holder, and then we’ll give you the, you know, for tech systems, or maybe, you know, Element, or whoever needs a certificate updated with the new

97 00:14:26.680 00:14:32.629 iberrigan: entity name, address, you know, we can… we can have those sent out, too. Just let us know.

98 00:14:33.130 00:14:42.279 Rico Rejoso: Now, if client also requested a COI, should we go to you, or would you be providing us a template that we can edit for future use?

99 00:14:42.280 00:14:46.569 iberrigan: Never… yeah, never, ever send a certificate out.

100 00:14:46.980 00:14:49.559 iberrigan: yourself. Don’t ever edit it.

101 00:14:49.680 00:14:54.790 iberrigan: Or anything. Yeah. Okay. That always needs to come directly from us, because we’re…

102 00:14:55.170 00:15:02.849 iberrigan: We’re referencing your actual policies on the certificate, and if you guys are doing that yourselves, then you’re putting yourself in a big…

103 00:15:02.980 00:15:05.370 iberrigan: You know, it could be a huge problem.

104 00:15:05.910 00:15:10.349 Rico Rejoso: Okay, great, great, yeah. Just wanted to clarify that one. And talking about…

105 00:15:10.350 00:15:29.409 iberrigan: Yeah, but if… oh, sorry, real quick, though, but if you want to, like, say somebody’s just asking, you know, they’re not asking for a certificate with, like, all this… all these special requirements, which most people would, or most companies will, but if someone’s just like, hey, can you show us, you know, or provide us their certificate of insurance, just to see what limits you have, or whatever.

106 00:15:29.530 00:15:46.580 iberrigan: you can send them your template COI, which is just gonna say, for informational purposes only at the bottom. So, unless they’re specifically requesting you list them as an additional insured, or you have all these language, you know, all these remarks in there, obviously just send us the request, but if it’s just a quick

107 00:15:46.580 00:15:51.520 iberrigan: Yeah, hey, show us… flash us your insurance, then you can show them that for information only template.

108 00:15:52.390 00:15:59.289 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, I mean, we would prefer that we, you know, get that from you, and you guys send it to them, rather than us.

109 00:15:59.290 00:16:06.340 iberrigan: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that’s the… that’s the best way to go about it, for sure. Just put it on us, send us the request.

110 00:16:06.850 00:16:15.969 Rico Rejoso: Great. And speaking about changes, since we’re changing names, is there, like, a prior acts or, retroactive coverage on the E&O and cyber

111 00:16:16.620 00:16:23.620 Rico Rejoso: I mean, since… I mean, the changes, we converted to CCore last January 1st, right? And up until.

112 00:16:24.430 00:16:27.930 Rico Rejoso: our COI still says Bain Forge AI LLC.

113 00:16:28.070 00:16:40.120 Rico Rejoso: Is it, like, a retroactive date that would still cover us for the, months that we were named, we were using our previous name on our COI, if ever something happened.

114 00:16:41.730 00:16:47.610 iberrigan: Let’s see. So, I mean, that’s… that’s a good, that’s a good question.

115 00:16:47.780 00:16:53.529 iberrigan: I mean, there is potential retroactive exposure, but it’s pretty flexible.

116 00:16:54.170 00:17:06.410 iberrigan: I mean, they’re claims-made policies, the E&O and the cyber, meaning, like, coverage is triggered for when an actual claim is made, or when, you know, someone gets litigated against, and, like,

117 00:17:07.119 00:17:12.340 iberrigan: It… I mean… The contracts were being executed, like.

118 00:17:12.480 00:17:23.500 iberrigan: under Brainforge AI LLC up until a certain point, so all that’s gonna be fine. Any new contracts that are, you know, executed with the new entity name.

119 00:17:23.869 00:17:31.090 iberrigan: You know, that would be, like, maybe the only gray area, but since we’re updating and getting it sorted, there shouldn’t be any problem with that.

120 00:17:31.510 00:17:35.300 iberrigan: If there was a claim, let’s say, like.

121 00:17:36.000 00:17:44.789 iberrigan: let’s say, like, you executed a contract maybe within the last couple months, and it’s under the new entity name, and then a claim arises against Brainforge Inc.

122 00:17:45.470 00:17:54.920 iberrigan: and the policy says BrainForge AI LLC still, you know, then perhaps there could be a problem, but because we’re transitioning everything over right now, I would imagine that

123 00:17:55.760 00:17:58.030 iberrigan: you’ll be fine.

124 00:17:58.450 00:18:01.430 Rico Rejoso: We don’t need any tail coverage or something like that, just to protect us against.

125 00:18:01.430 00:18:02.740 iberrigan: No.

126 00:18:02.990 00:18:08.820 iberrigan: No, since it’s the… it’s… I mean… The new entity might…

127 00:18:09.720 00:18:20.610 iberrigan: it might reset the retroactive dates on those claims-made policies, but I won’t know until the carriers tell me. Worst case scenario, if they say it’s gonna, you know, the retro date will be

128 00:18:20.610 00:18:32.880 iberrigan: Starting over, we can always purchase tail coverage, if necessary, based on the contracts you executed in the last couple years, just for the work that was done in, you know, 2024, 2025.

129 00:18:34.350 00:18:41.130 iberrigan: It’s gonna be one of those things where we’re just gonna have to confirm with the carriers, once we make the changes final.

130 00:18:41.320 00:18:46.470 iberrigan: Everybody’s different in how they approach that, so… yeah.

131 00:18:47.710 00:18:49.650 iberrigan: Okay. Let’s see…

132 00:18:52.680 00:19:04.240 iberrigan: Yeah, we’ll, I will make that… I’ll make a note of that. I’m gonna have my… have my team make sure we communicate all those things to the carrier before they make those changes final.

133 00:19:04.370 00:19:05.830 iberrigan: That’s an important piece.

134 00:19:08.400 00:19:23.679 Rico Rejoso: Also, going to a different topic, we wanted to let you know about the headcount has been raised to 30. We still have a bunch of 1099 contractors and international IC, but also, we are looking into transitioning some of our 1099 into W2.

135 00:19:24.060 00:19:28.489 Rico Rejoso: Would that affect anything, like the workers’ compensation?

136 00:19:29.460 00:19:32.900 iberrigan: Yeah, the workers’ comp, we definitely, we definitely would want

137 00:19:33.260 00:19:47.169 iberrigan: to… to adjust that. I mean, if, like, when we’re… when we’re coming to renewal, in September, you know, maybe 60 days before that or so, we should probably touch base and confirm headcount

138 00:19:47.270 00:19:59.870 iberrigan: W-2 employee versus 1099, and that way we can, you know, it’s just all going to be based on payroll. So, if there’s W-2 payroll that’s becoming, you know, relevant now, we’ll just want to make sure we’re

139 00:20:00.180 00:20:15.939 iberrigan: you know, coming up with an accurate estimate… estimate of, like, what that would look like for the upcoming 12 months, from September 2026 to 2027, just so that we can understand what the work comp premium will look like ahead of time. Okay.

140 00:20:16.290 00:20:19.429 iberrigan: Yeah, that’s gonna be important for that piece.

141 00:20:19.620 00:20:23.309 Rico Rejoso: Okay, let me take note of that and also inform the people operations team about it.

142 00:20:24.150 00:20:24.740 iberrigan: Cool.

143 00:20:25.130 00:20:32.009 Rico Rejoso: Also, our current E&O and the cyber cover work performed by international contractors, right?

144 00:20:33.000 00:20:34.180 iberrigan: Yes.

145 00:20:34.900 00:20:35.750 iberrigan: Focus.

146 00:20:38.910 00:20:45.599 iberrigan: We’ll back up again real quick, just to see if there’s any exclusions. I’m pretty sure we covered that a while ago, though, because that was…

147 00:20:46.110 00:20:50.099 iberrigan: Pretty important. Yeah, they’re worldwide policies, so…

148 00:20:50.100 00:20:51.080 Rico Rejoso: Okay, great.

149 00:20:53.240 00:20:59.390 Rico Rejoso: Alright, so, address, our name… We discussed that, and also,

150 00:21:00.760 00:21:11.770 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, you notice the BAA, we will be having that one. Actually, Holiday Crede drafted a new version of the BAA.

151 00:21:12.290 00:21:20.509 Rico Rejoso: which, I mean, do you need a copy of it? I can also forward it to email, since we’re also, providing service for a couple of

152 00:21:20.620 00:21:28.190 Rico Rejoso: folks in the, that needs, what do you call this? That we need to, reference HIPAALA, or, some…

153 00:21:28.940 00:21:37.280 Rico Rejoso: Around the BAA, right? So, some of the industry that we are offering services right now involves consumer packaged goods, telehealth, or…

154 00:21:37.730 00:21:40.209 Rico Rejoso: Health-related, industry.

155 00:21:40.320 00:21:42.119 Rico Rejoso: Right? So, there’s…

156 00:21:42.670 00:21:50.569 Rico Rejoso: Does our coverage for policy, ensures that we can… we can provide service to those kind of, companies or industries?

157 00:21:53.210 00:22:01.520 iberrigan: Yeah, yeah, so you’ll be able to, as long as you’re still performing work within the same scope of, you know, what Brainforge is all about, you know, data.

158 00:22:02.060 00:22:18.089 iberrigan: automation, you know, all that type of work. Yeah, the context of who your clients are shouldn’t really change the structure of your program. The only thing being, you know, if you’re already, like, working with, like, HIPAA stuff and a lot of PII,

159 00:22:18.200 00:22:23.510 iberrigan: And, you know, that’s already inherently riskier than any e-com

160 00:22:23.670 00:22:34.840 iberrigan: brand or anything like that. I mean, if your program is built to withstand that type of pressure and risk exposure, then I feel like any other industry is pretty safe to assume that it’s, you know.

161 00:22:34.980 00:22:37.740 iberrigan: you’re covered adequately.

162 00:22:38.320 00:22:57.129 iberrigan: It’s a good question, though. I think it’s important, like, if you are, you know, breaking out of the standard, or, like, a different… if you’re bringing on a client or something, or taking on a client, rather, that’s in a totally different category, yeah, just run it by us, you know, make sure we’re made aware, just, hey, this seems like a little bit left field for what we’re normally working on.

163 00:22:57.450 00:23:02.090 iberrigan: Just wanna, you know, make sure we’re all good here, because You know, if you’re…

164 00:23:02.490 00:23:07.960 iberrigan: This would never happen, but it’s like, oh yeah, we’re helping a terrorist organization, you know, fix their data.

165 00:23:07.990 00:23:23.300 iberrigan: issues, like, okay, well, that’s obviously going to be excluded specifically in everything that we’re, you know, all the entire program in place. So, yeah, that’s a very extreme example, but yeah, just let us know, if you’re taking on a client outside of the norm.

166 00:23:23.300 00:23:23.860 Rico Rejoso: Okay.

167 00:23:24.050 00:23:43.150 iberrigan: as far as, like, this specific one that the BAA was being created on, and, like, the HIPAA stuff, this is… that’s a perfect example of something we would want to be made aware of, just to… yeah, hey, like, the limits are good here, they’re… maybe we should increase them here. And that’s exactly what’s happening with the cyber situation right now. I just feel that…

168 00:23:43.820 00:23:51.299 iberrigan: You know, it’s… that’s gonna be the most important piece, and increasing the limits by a little bit wouldn’t be a bad idea.

169 00:23:51.550 00:23:53.870 iberrigan: Especially if you’re already asking your…

170 00:23:54.170 00:24:01.940 iberrigan: Any sub, you know, sub-consultants or whatever to carry that limit, then, you know, you should definitely consider it for yourself.

171 00:24:02.230 00:24:06.269 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, we may need the code for the increase in the…

172 00:24:06.540 00:24:11.240 Rico Rejoso: For that, so we can… I can also let Utam know about it, and we can discuss problems.

173 00:24:11.240 00:24:11.800 iberrigan: Yeah.

174 00:24:11.800 00:24:13.280 Rico Rejoso: implementa, right?

175 00:24:13.280 00:24:25.479 iberrigan: Yeah, I’ll get… I’ll get Hartford to give us an update on, like, what a… what an estimate would look like to bump that up a little bit. I can’t imagine it being that big of a change. Like, it should be relatively doable.

176 00:24:26.640 00:24:27.620 Rico Rejoso: Okay, great.

177 00:24:28.030 00:24:32.909 Rico Rejoso: And also, another would be… would be just, I think a hot topic right now is

178 00:24:33.370 00:24:39.009 Rico Rejoso: Does our current tech, you know, includes, or… or, I mean, excludes AI?

179 00:24:39.210 00:24:44.829 Rico Rejoso: I mean, we do… we offer, like, a lot… I mean, our services also revolves around us working with a lot of AI tools.

180 00:24:44.980 00:24:50.240 Rico Rejoso: Which we also deliver to our clients. So, and it’s… is… I mean…

181 00:24:50.490 00:24:59.330 Rico Rejoso: just in case our clients sues us for us using or providing deliverables, which is coming from AI.

182 00:25:02.610 00:25:04.860 iberrigan: Well… So…

183 00:25:05.940 00:25:09.090 Rico Rejoso: tools like Cursor, you know, OpenCode, plot.

184 00:25:10.100 00:25:16.250 iberrigan: Yeah, I mean, it’s not explicitly excluded in the tech E&L, but…

185 00:25:16.960 00:25:22.569 iberrigan: I mean, you know, AI-related claims covered, for the most part, like, it’s just…

186 00:25:24.920 00:25:36.519 iberrigan: it’s… it’s kind of hard to say, because, like, they don’t specifically exclude it, so that… that’s a good thing, obviously. Like, things are gonna change, and I foresee that being a big topic in the next, you know, in the coming years, like.

187 00:25:36.820 00:25:41.669 iberrigan: I think we’re gonna start seeing, like, exclusions for AI, ML, things like that.

188 00:25:41.710 00:25:53.370 iberrigan: And then that’s why there’s also new products that are being created in the insurance world to cover AI, ML, hallucinations, you know, providing that.

189 00:25:53.370 00:26:05.780 iberrigan: output to your clients and, you know, as advice or, you know, consultative work, like, that stuff is becoming more relevant, and there is coverage being created for those things. But right now, the way we’re set.

190 00:26:06.340 00:26:18.919 iberrigan: you’re with a standard market, a carrier that’s, you know, massively reputable. The Hartford is, like, you know, they’re not specifically excluding anything like that, and if they do in the coming renewal cycles, then we’ll be sure to

191 00:26:19.050 00:26:20.890 iberrigan: Read into that more.

192 00:26:21.070 00:26:27.449 iberrigan: You know, product versus service ambiguity, like, that’s… that’s probably what’s gonna be…

193 00:26:28.820 00:26:37.309 iberrigan: like, the determining factor on whether, like, is AI stuff covered? And it’s like, you know, if you are developing internal tools.

194 00:26:38.190 00:26:46.570 iberrigan: like, internal AI tools, and then licensing them, the carrier could argue that that’s, like, a product exposure, not just a service, you know what I’m saying? So…

195 00:26:46.570 00:26:47.190 Rico Rejoso: Yeah.

196 00:26:47.790 00:26:53.909 iberrigan: but you guys aren’t, from what I understand, and what U-Tam has kept me in the loop on, is like, you guys aren’t really building

197 00:26:54.200 00:27:02.650 iberrigan: AI tools and licensing them, right? I mean, maybe in the coming future, like, or you’re more so building internally for the clients, right?

198 00:27:02.650 00:27:08.949 Rico Rejoso: yourselves offering it as a product. It’s more like of an internal tool that we are developing for everyone to use.

199 00:27:08.950 00:27:09.840 iberrigan: Right.

200 00:27:09.840 00:27:14.749 Rico Rejoso: It’s an AI tools that are, you know, the deliverable would still be,

201 00:27:14.910 00:27:17.709 Rico Rejoso: will still be coming from AI, right? So…

202 00:27:17.710 00:27:19.060 iberrigan: Right, right.

203 00:27:19.610 00:27:24.180 iberrigan: I’m trying to think, because that is, you know.

204 00:27:25.080 00:27:30.289 iberrigan: It’s contract… like, is all… but all of the work is still, like, when you’re… when you’re contractually…

205 00:27:30.550 00:27:36.319 iberrigan: Agreeing to provide whatever work for a client, right? It’s all service-based.

206 00:27:36.760 00:27:43.860 iberrigan: contractual agreements, right? You’re not… you’re not saying you get this product, or you get, you know, this SaaS

207 00:27:44.040 00:27:48.269 iberrigan: Platform or whatever. Okay. Yeah,

208 00:27:50.780 00:27:55.450 iberrigan: Yeah, I mean, that… I think we’re good there.

209 00:27:58.330 00:28:01.500 iberrigan: Yeah, I mean, it’s the PHI stuff that…

210 00:28:01.950 00:28:04.939 iberrigan: Is, like, the biggest risk, like, if you’re…

211 00:28:05.400 00:28:06.080 Rico Rejoso: Yeah.

212 00:28:06.840 00:28:17.789 iberrigan: I mean, bottom line, like, there’s no… there’s no explicit exclusions for AI, machine learning on the tech E&O.

213 00:28:18.220 00:28:26.020 iberrigan: Coverage will pretty much apply if it’s a service you’re offering and you’re not selling a product, you know, or an AI product.

214 00:28:26.210 00:28:30.409 iberrigan: I think it’s… I think that’s more of a…

215 00:28:30.680 00:28:39.040 iberrigan: a contractual thing. Like, you’re gonna be able to push some of that risk off in the contracts that you have your clients sign, and then additionally,

216 00:28:39.570 00:28:42.459 iberrigan: We can try to… we can try to…

217 00:28:42.750 00:28:44.330 iberrigan: We could try to broaden the…

218 00:28:44.840 00:28:49.189 iberrigan: the language on the tech E&O as much as possible, but I mean…

219 00:28:49.860 00:28:55.100 iberrigan: I mean, I… I think… I think we’re in a good spot, I really do.

220 00:28:55.670 00:28:56.370 Rico Rejoso: Okay, yeah, good.

221 00:28:56.370 00:29:06.129 iberrigan: if your approach changes, though, with the whole product thing, and, like, including the… if someone, say, because I know y’all are trying to push that as, like.

222 00:29:06.890 00:29:22.860 iberrigan: not necessarily a product, but you want to get a client that’s going to take you guys on for that specific reason, right? Oh, that internal AI tool that you’ll give them access to. Like, if that’s the sole purpose that they’re signing with you guys, then maybe…

223 00:29:22.980 00:29:25.549 iberrigan: Maybe it’s worth looking into more.

224 00:29:26.020 00:29:29.519 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, like, if we’re building an AI tools for them.

225 00:29:29.780 00:29:30.570 Rico Rejoso: That would.

226 00:29:30.570 00:29:31.030 iberrigan: Right.

227 00:29:31.030 00:29:33.850 Rico Rejoso: It could be more like a product than a service, right?

228 00:29:34.030 00:29:44.589 iberrigan: Exactly, it’s just making sure those two terms don’t get morphed, you know, or like, you know, just assume that they’re the same thing, because tech…

229 00:29:44.750 00:29:53.800 iberrigan: I mean, because, you know, you guys offering the consultative services and blah blah blah, you know, that’s very different than, oh, we’re gonna build you these tools, or…

230 00:29:53.980 00:29:55.930 iberrigan: Make you pay for them, you know?

231 00:29:56.380 00:29:57.320 Rico Rejoso: Gotcha.

232 00:29:57.320 00:29:57.880 iberrigan: Nope.

233 00:29:58.260 00:30:02.979 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, no worries. We’re still not yet on that line of service, or on that line of.

234 00:30:02.980 00:30:03.600 iberrigan: Good.

235 00:30:04.510 00:30:07.270 Rico Rejoso: But if and ever, we might need to…

236 00:30:07.580 00:30:10.299 Rico Rejoso: Revisit and reconstruct some of the contracts, and…

237 00:30:10.810 00:30:11.699 Rico Rejoso: brings me up.

238 00:30:11.700 00:30:17.660 iberrigan: And there was another thing I remember, like, because I just basically sent you that email on the BAA, but, like.

239 00:30:18.040 00:30:28.000 iberrigan: there was language in there that prohibits use of AI, or prohibits the use of, using the PHI for any machine learning or AI training.

240 00:30:28.270 00:30:29.690 iberrigan: That’s a good thing.

241 00:30:29.940 00:30:38.719 iberrigan: Because that does reduce your exposure further, and it makes your coverage more defensible, since, like, you have that in your contract.

242 00:30:39.920 00:30:41.460 iberrigan: Amanda.

243 00:30:44.790 00:30:45.700 iberrigan: Okay.

244 00:30:46.470 00:30:47.150 iberrigan: Cool.

245 00:30:48.380 00:30:54.359 Rico Rejoso: Okay, that’s… that’s great. Oh, I don’t have any further questions right now in mind.

246 00:30:55.200 00:30:55.960 iberrigan: Okay.

247 00:30:55.960 00:31:03.290 Rico Rejoso: probably have to also, deliver this and also inform Mutam about our discussion, and we’ll be needing the code that you mentioned that you’re getting from

248 00:31:03.840 00:31:13.480 Rico Rejoso: So I can present it to Income. Also, as mentioned or discussed earlier, I’ll be sending you the updated W-9 once we have that. We just…

249 00:31:13.740 00:31:16.820 Rico Rejoso: After that, we need to get the updated COI.

250 00:31:16.980 00:31:22.830 Rico Rejoso: For our records, and the process includes us requesting COI if whenever a client requested one, too, as well.

251 00:31:24.700 00:31:26.110 iberrigan: Yes, perfect.

252 00:31:26.410 00:31:27.010 Rico Rejoso: Alright.

253 00:31:27.160 00:31:28.560 Rico Rejoso: Nothing else.

254 00:31:28.770 00:31:33.400 Rico Rejoso: I guess… oh yeah, that’s it. We’re a bit over time. Thank you so much for your time, though, Ian.

255 00:31:33.860 00:31:44.909 iberrigan: Yeah, yeah, no problem. I think for the next one, or, you know, our next check-in, I don’t think it’s a problem. I know we’re set on quarterly, or that’s the hope, right? If…

256 00:31:45.540 00:31:53.230 iberrigan: I say we probably, like, push the next one up, so that we can just, like, once we get all the policies restructured with the correct naming and…

257 00:31:53.230 00:32:06.779 iberrigan: you know, like, we just… I know you guys signed a very large client, like, recently, maybe… maybe you guys send me that contract, we can pressure test it against the current policy setups. I think everything’s fine, like, I do think we’re in a good spot, I just want to…

258 00:32:06.780 00:32:09.809 iberrigan: Make sure that, like, these are a lot of changes happening right this.

259 00:32:09.810 00:32:10.589 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, yeah.

260 00:32:10.590 00:32:14.830 iberrigan: and a lot of growth, like, out of nowhere, so I think it’s important that

261 00:32:15.030 00:32:18.699 iberrigan: We prioritize just making sure everything looks good, you know?

262 00:32:18.890 00:32:32.630 iberrigan: Sooner rather than later. So maybe, like, maybe we make 30 days from now, and we just do a quick check-in, or I can just review everything and deliver a quick update to you, or just make sure, okay, I think we’re in a good spot, or hey, we should adjust here.

263 00:32:33.030 00:32:40.649 Rico Rejoso: Okay, so you mentioned, I mean, you requested the contract, our biggest contract right now, which we just signed recently, to be sent over to you, right?

264 00:32:41.480 00:32:48.029 iberrigan: Yeah, I think that’s a good start, because this is going to be a very large, sophisticated client, so it’s probably worth, you know.

265 00:32:48.030 00:32:48.430 Rico Rejoso: Okay.

266 00:32:48.430 00:32:50.140 iberrigan: Pressure testing that, yeah.

267 00:32:50.510 00:32:55.530 Rico Rejoso: I got you, yeah. Let me send that over, let me just first confirm on our end, then we’ll send you over through email.

268 00:32:55.530 00:32:56.910 iberrigan: Sure, sure.

269 00:32:57.020 00:33:00.429 iberrigan: Okay. Cool, man. Well, thank you so much, I appreciate it.

270 00:33:00.620 00:33:03.190 Rico Rejoso: Thank you so much for the time, learned a lot, Ian, thank you so much.

271 00:33:03.770 00:33:05.470 iberrigan: Yes, sir. Talk to you soon. Bye.

272 00:33:05.470 00:33:06.220 Rico Rejoso: Have a good one.