Meeting Title: Recruiting Team Retro Date: 2026-04-14 Meeting participants: Samuel Roberts, Kaela Gallagher, Demilade Agboola, Rico Rejoso, Pranav, Jasmin Multani, Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran, Greg Stoutenburg


WEBVTT

1 00:00:16.860 00:00:18.750 Kaela Gallagher: Hey Sam, how’s it going?

2 00:00:19.350 00:00:21.839 Samuel Roberts: Oh, alright, sounds like your soul.

3 00:00:22.350 00:00:22.860 Kaela Gallagher: Good.

4 00:00:25.170 00:00:26.400 Samuel Roberts: Oh, man.

5 00:00:26.400 00:00:33.829 Kaela Gallagher: I chatted with Matthew Kulina the other day, that person that you had found from, like, the Cleveland…

6 00:00:33.830 00:00:34.370 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

7 00:00:34.370 00:00:37.820 Kaela Gallagher: Slack forum or whatever it was.

8 00:00:37.820 00:00:38.650 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah.

9 00:00:38.650 00:00:41.409 Kaela Gallagher: And he reminded me so much of you.

10 00:00:41.410 00:00:42.810 Samuel Roberts: I was like.

11 00:00:42.810 00:00:43.940 Kaela Gallagher: Oh my gosh, this is so sad.

12 00:00:43.940 00:00:49.819 Samuel Roberts: Crazy, I don’t know him at all, he’s just… I just posted it there, I haven’t met him at all, so… I… that’s really funny.

13 00:00:50.110 00:00:54.249 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, it was hilarious. Unfortunately, he’s, like, very…

14 00:00:54.470 00:00:56.900 Kaela Gallagher: Pricey, he’s a little bit out of our budget, but…

15 00:00:56.900 00:00:57.780 Samuel Roberts: Oh, okay.

16 00:00:57.780 00:01:02.259 Kaela Gallagher: He was… really fun to chat with.

17 00:01:02.260 00:01:03.060 Samuel Roberts: Oh, okay.

18 00:01:04.140 00:01:11.839 Samuel Roberts: That’s so funny, yeah. Yeah, there’s a few people. There was that Slack, and there’s another one that I posted, and there was a few people messaging me about it, so I don’t know how many are coming through, but…

19 00:01:12.440 00:01:19.350 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, I… I’ve… yeah, we’ve gotten quite a few. I would say, like, I think the main

20 00:01:19.560 00:01:25.180 Kaela Gallagher: change I’m seeing with us posting in Slack versus us, like.

21 00:01:25.730 00:01:39.880 Kaela Gallagher: advertising role on LinkedIn is that the quality coming through is better, and when people are submitting applications, they’re actually doing the video. Usually, it’s, like, 90% of applications come through without a video, but.

22 00:01:39.880 00:01:40.380 Samuel Roberts: Really?

23 00:01:40.380 00:01:44.729 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, a lot of them are coming through with the loom, so that’s been… Okay.

24 00:01:44.730 00:02:00.739 Kaela Gallagher: exciting to see, too. So, that’s worked well, and Utom, in the past week, has added me to, like, 6 different, Slack forums, so I’ve been posting in them, too, and I’ve been getting a lot of resumes and stuff, so it seems to be working well.

25 00:02:01.420 00:02:21.049 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think just the concept of, like, Slack versus, like, LinkedIn is, you know, Slack is generally more gated, quote-unquote. Even if they’re open communities, it does take some effort to be there, and as a result, the quality of people there tends to be a bit higher, versus, like, LinkedIn, where almost anybody’s on.

26 00:02:21.250 00:02:24.070 Demilade Agboola: And it’s just a function of if it gets on your timeline.

27 00:02:24.560 00:02:34.020 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, and I think the kinds of people that are in the Slack forums, too, are… obviously, like, have a certain level of passion about that topic, too, so, like.

28 00:02:34.330 00:02:40.809 Kaela Gallagher: you’re, in theory, getting experts in the space as well. And I think, like, most of our current team was found in

29 00:02:40.930 00:02:42.750 Kaela Gallagher: Forums of some sort, so…

30 00:02:42.750 00:02:44.130 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, probably.

31 00:02:44.130 00:02:45.159 Demilade Agboola: Except me.

32 00:02:45.580 00:02:49.690 Kaela Gallagher: Wait, oh, you found us on, like, a website, right?

33 00:02:49.690 00:02:51.669 Demilade Agboola: No, I was… I was referred.

34 00:02:51.910 00:02:54.150 Samuel Roberts: Pretty good, though.

35 00:02:54.150 00:02:59.470 Demilade Agboola: friends, and he was looking for engineers, and he told, like, which I’m told my, like.

36 00:02:59.580 00:03:02.029 Demilade Agboola: His friend, who happened to be my previous manager.

37 00:03:02.380 00:03:06.110 Demilade Agboola: And he’s just like, oh, like, Dimodi would be a great fit, and boom.

38 00:03:07.410 00:03:10.139 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Yeah, referrals work super well.

39 00:03:10.140 00:03:10.930 Samuel Roberts: Yes.

40 00:03:11.380 00:03:22.580 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, shout out to, Dami, Sam, I think Pranav and Awash have had referrals come through as well, so thank you guys for your support there.

41 00:03:26.630 00:03:34.139 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, let me see… I know Utom is driving right now, so it might take him a sec to join.

42 00:03:34.290 00:03:37.930 Kaela Gallagher: I think Greg is gonna hop in from his phone, too.

43 00:03:38.820 00:03:40.960 Kaela Gallagher: What else are we waiting on?

44 00:03:44.450 00:03:45.510 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

45 00:03:46.590 00:04:01.729 Kaela Gallagher: Well, we can go ahead and get… get started. I just want to do these monthly. Obviously, I hope that we can have feedback, conversations, like, throughout the month as well, but I want to have just a quick sync with all of us monthly to chat about.

46 00:04:01.750 00:04:18.990 Kaela Gallagher: recruiting and how things are going. So I can just start off with, like, a few things about, like, the hiring mindset and kind of what we’ve been seeing recently, and then would love to go into, like, your guys’ feedback and maybe tips for each other as well.

47 00:04:19.440 00:04:34.670 Kaela Gallagher: So, just starting off with, like, the hiring mindset, just wanted to call out, like, candidates are evaluating us just as much as we’re evaluating them. I know it’s an employer’s market right now, and there are a lot of candidates

48 00:04:34.670 00:04:46.269 Kaela Gallagher: searching, but I still think, like, the top talent has, you know, multiple opportunities on their plate. They’re interviewing multiple places, and it’s, like, very important that we make a good impression on them.

49 00:04:46.390 00:05:01.739 Kaela Gallagher: I have received a couple emails from candidates saying that they’re, dropping out of the process just due to the experience that they had in interviews. So, just want to make sure, like, we all remember that as we’re chatting with candidates, like.

50 00:05:02.050 00:05:06.889 Kaela Gallagher: we are selling Brainforge in the way that we’re conversing with them.

51 00:05:07.610 00:05:10.920 Kaela Gallagher: Another thing to call out is…

52 00:05:11.210 00:05:14.710 Demilade Agboola: Sorry to, like, just to double-click on that, are there any, like.

53 00:05:15.140 00:05:19.470 Demilade Agboola: Is there any feedback off of that, in terms of, like, what exactly…

54 00:05:19.610 00:05:27.680 Demilade Agboola: made people say, hey, like, I don’t think… is it a function of, like, responses to certain questions? Is it a fun… like, just… just…

55 00:05:27.860 00:05:30.380 Demilade Agboola: Curious as to what exactly could be.

56 00:05:30.800 00:05:40.169 Kaela Gallagher: Yes, yeah. I did share the feedback with, like, the interviewers that were involved directly, but to call out a couple examples.

57 00:05:40.190 00:05:57.809 Kaela Gallagher: Of what candidates have told me. I had one candidate say that it felt very transactional, and like the interviewer was reading off a list of questions, rather than, like, having a conversation. So that’s something I think matters a lot to candidates. And then I had another candidate say that.

58 00:05:58.210 00:06:05.999 Kaela Gallagher: They were under the impression that because we’re consulting, like, a wide variety of backgrounds is…

59 00:06:06.170 00:06:16.920 Kaela Gallagher: Acceptable, but they felt that the interview was very geared towards specific technologies, and that they were declined because they didn’t have those specific technologies.

60 00:06:17.030 00:06:23.580 Kaela Gallagher: So that seems like more of, like, an expectations thing. Maybe we can do a better job of setting up front.

61 00:06:24.020 00:06:27.450 Kaela Gallagher: I know I had you guys review job descriptions.

62 00:06:27.620 00:06:43.200 Kaela Gallagher: Recently, I think, Sam, we added some, like, specific technical skills to the AI engineer one, but, if you guys have anything else that you think would, like, better set expectations for candidates up front that we can add to job descriptions, let me know, and I’m happy to tweak.

63 00:06:48.760 00:06:49.620 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.

64 00:06:50.180 00:07:02.700 Kaela Gallagher: And feel free to stop me at any time if you guys have any other questions. Another thing that I wanted to just call out is I think we’ve been seeing people make it to final rounds.

65 00:07:02.700 00:07:10.930 Kaela Gallagher: But when they make it to a final round, nobody that’s brought them there is, like, willing to vouch for them and is, like, super excited about them.

66 00:07:10.930 00:07:24.149 Kaela Gallagher: So, I do want to call out, like, if you are moving somebody forward to the next round, you are putting your name on that person as, yes, I want this person to take 45 minutes of Utama Roberts’ time.

67 00:07:24.150 00:07:38.100 Kaela Gallagher: And that’s, like, the value that we’re placing on that candidate moving forward. So, if a candidate is in finals, like, there should be people on that panel that are really excited about them, and, like, ready to fight for them to be on the team.

68 00:07:40.200 00:07:56.959 Kaela Gallagher: And I think, too, like, if we’re bringing people to final rounds, it should be clear that they can either hit the ground running, or they can, like, ramp up to that within, you know, 14 days. We move really quickly, so we need people that can ramp up and work at that speed as well.

69 00:07:59.120 00:08:01.849 Kaela Gallagher: Any questions about any of the mindset?

70 00:08:02.940 00:08:03.920 Kaela Gallagher: Things.

71 00:08:06.650 00:08:07.520 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

72 00:08:08.410 00:08:14.479 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Robert, I know you just joined, but I just shared, like, some feedback that we got from candidates throughout the process.

73 00:08:14.690 00:08:18.280 Kaela Gallagher: Oh. Cool.

74 00:08:18.550 00:08:25.470 Kaela Gallagher: Just some updates to the process. So, Jasmine’s on the call. She is,

75 00:08:25.470 00:08:43.360 Kaela Gallagher: hopping in for Amber’s place in the strategy rounds, so Jasmine will be doing first round strategy, and then also will be part of the final round for it as well. So just an update to that process there, and that is also on our hiring and recruitment page, too, for reference.

76 00:08:43.880 00:08:51.809 Kaela Gallagher: I… we’ll circle back to this when Greg joins, but,

77 00:08:51.860 00:09:07.939 Kaela Gallagher: Curious specifically how the second rounds are going. They’re meant to be kind of technical rounds, Greg and I made an adjustment to his second round to give, like, a mini case study and have candidates come prep to them. So, curious…

78 00:09:07.940 00:09:13.249 Kaela Gallagher: For the others that are doing second rounds, how you guys feel like they’re going, and…

79 00:09:13.390 00:09:16.250 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, any feedback there?

80 00:09:16.420 00:09:22.410 Pranav: Yeah, I think I’ve kind of adjusted how I’ve done second rounds, but I think…

81 00:09:23.120 00:09:29.269 Pranav: I could probably do some further adjustments as well, and Kayla, I’d like to, like… maybe this is, like, yeah, probably a good time to talk about it.

82 00:09:29.300 00:09:43.130 Pranav: I think sometimes I… I make an assessment, like, as the conversation’s going. Is this going to be a good, like, CSO? Is this going to be good, like, IC? Is this going to be a good SL?

83 00:09:43.550 00:09:56.399 Pranav: But they’re still being evaluated on the same kind of rubric, right, the same scorecard. Should we create separate scorecards for per person, or should we maybe, if they come

84 00:09:56.610 00:10:07.489 Pranav: to me, should they already be kind of like, hey, this is… we’re trying to hire for, like, CSO, so just evaluate them on CSO? How should I be kind of thinking about that when I’m asking questions?

85 00:10:08.070 00:10:21.049 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, so by the time anybody gets to a second round, it should be clear, kind of, what we are evaluating them for. So, maybe that is kind of feedback to pass to the first round people, of like…

86 00:10:21.050 00:10:21.860 Samuel Roberts: consumed.

87 00:10:22.080 00:10:40.229 Kaela Gallagher: hey, once you have a first round, like, you’re also putting a recommendation on the role. I know I’m doing that when I’m doing, you know, like a Brainforge chat or a Loom review, I’m putting the recommended role there, and then I’m making sure that that’s reflected in the title on their scorecard as well, but…

88 00:10:40.230 00:10:49.609 Kaela Gallagher: So, Pranav, like, by the time somebody gets to you, their recommended role should be in multiple places on their scorecard, but then the first round interviewer should be confirming that as well.

89 00:10:49.910 00:10:52.330 Pranav: Oh, okay, gotcha.

90 00:10:53.120 00:11:06.220 Pranav: Okay, that’s good to know. Yeah, maybe, Sam, we’ll just, like, connect on that, because I guess maybe we should just update, like, the… the top section, like, that role area, just from, like, AI automation engineer to, like, something more specific that…

91 00:11:06.460 00:11:09.559 Pranav: Is, like, specific to where they’d be placed within Brainforge?

92 00:11:12.460 00:11:31.009 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, we can update it with, like, where we see them. Something also that I wanted to call out that Greg brought up, which is a good point, is that this title here is what I’m selecting for them when they’re coming through a loom review or a Brainforge chat. This role section here is what they are putting on their application.

93 00:11:31.010 00:11:36.370 Kaela Gallagher: So the most accurate thing would be the title here, which you can easily change by

94 00:11:36.440 00:11:40.650 Kaela Gallagher: Minimizing, and then coming in here and adding.

95 00:11:40.790 00:11:45.309 Kaela Gallagher: That would be most accurate, or you can see…

96 00:11:45.460 00:11:48.700 Kaela Gallagher: like, the recommended rule here from the Loom review.

97 00:11:48.840 00:11:52.389 Uttam Kumaran: Can we just change that… can we just change that field name to, like…

98 00:11:53.760 00:11:57.410 Uttam Kumaran: Applied for this role, like, just make it super clear.

99 00:11:57.680 00:11:59.070 Demilade Agboola: or role I applied for.

100 00:11:59.690 00:12:00.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

101 00:12:02.350 00:12:02.900 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

102 00:12:02.900 00:12:04.579 Uttam Kumaran: I have the same problem, yeah.

103 00:12:05.190 00:12:05.910 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

104 00:12:06.350 00:12:08.289 Kaela Gallagher: Alright, I will make that change moving forward.

105 00:12:08.290 00:12:16.430 Uttam Kumaran: And then second… second thing is, like, if you have a requirement for the first round people, I think we should just put that in the first round template. Like…

106 00:12:16.760 00:12:23.200 Uttam Kumaran: as a field for them to literally just write, like, which route does this person need to go to?

107 00:12:23.990 00:12:29.519 Uttam Kumaran: I… I think… I think that… that could be helpful, or… or… or put it… put it in the first round template that’s, like.

108 00:12:29.670 00:12:32.329 Uttam Kumaran: Go up and update the field, you know?

109 00:12:33.820 00:12:38.800 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. I’ll make that adjustment as well.

110 00:12:39.120 00:12:40.310 Kaela Gallagher: Moving forward.

111 00:12:40.780 00:12:41.860 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

112 00:12:42.200 00:12:43.030 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.

113 00:12:43.140 00:12:56.890 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, Pranav, if you have any other notes on second round, let me know, but I guess, curious, like, once a candidate makes it to final, what do you guys think is the most common reason that we’re saying no?

114 00:12:58.000 00:13:02.309 Kaela Gallagher: And the follow-up question there would be, can we catch that sooner?

115 00:13:05.730 00:13:10.689 Demilade Agboola: I mean, from my stream, there have only been, like, 2 people who’ve made it to the final round, so…

116 00:13:10.690 00:13:11.240 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

117 00:13:11.240 00:13:14.949 Demilade Agboola: Not a lot of people have passed the second round, from my perspective.

118 00:13:15.150 00:13:23.109 Demilade Agboola: I think, one, we’ve tried to make, pull a trigger on them, and the other one was, like, we’ll keep warm.

119 00:13:23.350 00:13:31.179 Demilade Agboola: And I think for the person that will, like, oh, keep warm, it’s not necessarily, like, there isn’t the technical…

120 00:13:31.550 00:13:39.180 Demilade Agboola: expertise, or there’s in technical ability. It’s… it’s there, but we will need to polish them a bit to fit the role.

121 00:13:39.350 00:13:44.650 Demilade Agboola: More, like, more… to fit the role better, basically.

122 00:13:44.760 00:14:02.779 Demilade Agboola: And I think for that, to be able to catch that will probably be… because my second round interviews are more, like, technical design scenarios, and in that scenario, they’re just walking me through how they’ll design it, what the assumptions they’re making, what they’re looking out for, how they’re trying to prevent certain things from happening.

123 00:14:03.380 00:14:10.440 Demilade Agboola: how they optimize their code, things like that, so I get to understand how they think and how that will fit in from a technical perspective.

124 00:14:11.100 00:14:16.060 Demilade Agboola: I think potentially just, being able to ask.

125 00:14:17.030 00:14:18.980 Demilade Agboola: being able to, I won’t say, like.

126 00:14:19.420 00:14:24.250 Demilade Agboola: Live quote, but just being able to, like, listen more to how they’re responding.

127 00:14:24.500 00:14:28.860 Demilade Agboola: And being able to see if that fits more into what we want.

128 00:14:28.990 00:14:33.580 Demilade Agboola: But like I said, like, we’ve only had two people go all the way through, so it’s not like,

129 00:14:34.480 00:14:37.949 Demilade Agboola: We’ve not been able to filter out a lot of people earlier,

130 00:14:38.100 00:14:51.590 Demilade Agboola: I guess, yeah, it’s just a process. And I think, ultimately, for… just to ensure that we don’t allow multiple people to scale through, I feel like it helps to have more scenarios where people talk, versus, like, a script.

131 00:14:51.670 00:15:09.350 Demilade Agboola: So it’s more, hey, if you were to build this system, how would you go about it? What are the assumptions you make? How would you prevent this from happening? And then, based off how they respond and how they think, you can sort of get an idea of the depth in which, number one, they think, and number two, they also,

132 00:15:09.390 00:15:28.039 Demilade Agboola: plan for different things occurring, and how much they’ve worked on stuff, because ultimately, the depth of which you’ve worked will allow you to think of… will allow you to… will show forth in how many, like, use cases you can come up with, and edge cases you can kind of plan for. So that allows you to know, like, the strength, relative strength of people.

133 00:15:29.560 00:15:30.310 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

134 00:15:30.650 00:15:33.380 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, sounds good.

135 00:15:33.960 00:15:40.759 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think one thing for me… yeah, one thing for me is just presentation skills. Like, I think we should make it pretty clear

136 00:15:41.330 00:15:54.480 Uttam Kumaran: that people are gonna present something in the final round. Like, all of us are consultants, all of us present to clients. I think just basic ability to put together, like, a clean document or clean slides, we should just require.

137 00:15:54.550 00:16:09.670 Uttam Kumaran: you can AI your way to all of that, like, in, like, 2 seconds. So, I think, like, that’s a fair requirement. And, like, for me, that’s been part of the issue, is, like, I just think we have some people on the engineering side who just, like, pull up VS Code or whatever, and I’m like.

138 00:16:10.960 00:16:18.119 Uttam Kumaran: like, I guess, like, at that point, I’m sort of… I feel like the fo- at a final round, I’m not… I’m less concerned about them

139 00:16:18.250 00:16:23.670 Uttam Kumaran: writing code, or I guess, like, that’s my… that should be my feeling. I’m like, can you translate…

140 00:16:23.810 00:16:32.729 Uttam Kumaran: these requirements to a business stakeholder, and can you roll with the punches, like, when we’re asking, like, questions that are a little off-script? That’s what I typically go for.

141 00:16:32.730 00:16:36.910 Kaela Gallagher: So, some candidates are showing up to the final right now without a presentation.

142 00:16:37.810 00:16:43.780 Uttam Kumaran: That’s correct, yeah, I think they… well, I just think maybe we should make it explicit what we mean by presentation.

143 00:16:44.030 00:16:55.700 Uttam Kumaran: Like, again, it could be… it could be a well-written document. It could also be, like, slides. I think it should be one of the two. I feel like it’s fair to just, like, make that call for people.

144 00:16:56.810 00:16:57.460 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

145 00:16:58.120 00:17:03.839 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah. Okay, I think that’s fair. I will say, right now, all of our engineering finals

146 00:17:04.060 00:17:10.600 Kaela Gallagher: we send the GitHub link, and it does not direct them to make a presentation. So I do think we need to update, like, our.

147 00:17:10.609 00:17:14.229 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we can modify that, so I think I just want to get everybody

148 00:17:14.619 00:17:17.789 Uttam Kumaran: On this, on the same page, but that’s what we’re expecting.

149 00:17:18.060 00:17:25.489 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, I think we’ll have a better… a better outcome if we make that more clear. So, we can go ahead and update that as well.

150 00:17:25.490 00:17:46.770 Kaela Gallagher: One thing I would ask for from you all, and this is most applicable to people doing second rounds and final panels, is if somebody makes it to you and you’re declining for a reason that you feel like could have been caught sooner, if you can just respond in the thread for that day on the recruiting channel, hey, I’m failing this person because of

151 00:17:46.880 00:17:54.900 Kaela Gallagher: X, and I think it could have been caught earlier in the process, I think having that feedback loop for us will make us a lot better moving forward.

152 00:17:55.250 00:17:57.569 Kaela Gallagher: And hopefully save people a lot of time.

153 00:17:57.570 00:18:01.620 Uttam Kumaran: And Kayla, did you already kind of go through, like, what we talked about of, like, first round interviews?

154 00:18:01.880 00:18:04.280 Uttam Kumaran: Like, kind of being a little bit more, like.

155 00:18:06.160 00:18:12.670 Uttam Kumaran: Intense, or, like… or, like, kind of… that person should be stamping that this person could… they think could make it all aware.

156 00:18:13.070 00:18:19.079 Kaela Gallagher: Yes, like, you should be a hell yes to move somebody forward, for lack of better terms.

157 00:18:19.080 00:18:23.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. I just think that’s, like, one of the biggest changes for me is, like.

158 00:18:23.730 00:18:33.659 Uttam Kumaran: I want to be aware that, hey, if this person made it to the final, like, someone… one of the last four people is, like, vouching for them.

159 00:18:34.150 00:18:37.190 Uttam Kumaran: And I think everybody here has the green light.

160 00:18:37.360 00:18:52.409 Uttam Kumaran: to put a red light on people that they don’t want to vouch for. So, ultimately, when it’s gonna increase the stakes for the first round interviewer, like, you should really be like, this person can make it to the end. Not this person, I think, can make it past the next one.

161 00:18:52.470 00:19:02.939 Uttam Kumaran: Or barely skirted by me. And so, I think there’s just gonna be a lot more ownership for the first-round people to be like, this is someone that I think can make it to the end, and is…

162 00:19:03.120 00:19:05.659 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we should accelerate through the process?

163 00:19:05.880 00:19:23.620 Uttam Kumaran: And that way, basically, my instruction to Kayla was, I want her to increase her top of funnel and get more candidates, but we should… but that means we’re gonna have to have a really strict first round. Like, you sh… if you’re a first-round interviewer, you should really be letting the people in that you think can make it all the way.

164 00:19:24.280 00:19:29.049 Uttam Kumaran: And ideally, you’re like, I want this person. They’re great, you know?

165 00:19:29.590 00:19:30.970 Kaela Gallagher: Utam, the way I phrased.

166 00:19:30.970 00:19:32.760 Uttam Kumaran: I just want to say that really explicitly.

167 00:19:33.280 00:19:42.649 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, the way I phrased it is that if you’re moving somebody forward, you’re stamping them as worth 45 minutes of Robert Uten’s time.

168 00:19:42.650 00:19:57.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I just think… I gotta put it another way, let’s say it’s worth 2,000 to $3,000 of client billable time on that person.

169 00:19:58.070 00:20:02.110 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, if that helps make it a little bit more serious, like, that’s how I would think about it.

170 00:20:03.500 00:20:04.430 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.

171 00:20:06.060 00:20:13.749 Kaela Gallagher: I guess just really quickly to retro on candidates that we have seen recently, I’m curious if anybody here

172 00:20:14.130 00:20:25.520 Kaela Gallagher: has talked to a candidate and is feeling like, where are they? Like, why aren’t they at Brainforge yet? Like, is there anybody that’s really excited you that you haven’t seen walk through the door yet?

173 00:20:27.350 00:20:27.890 Demilade Agboola: Thankfully.

174 00:20:27.890 00:20:34.450 Pranav: There’s a couple AI engineers that I talked to, that I don’t know. I think,

175 00:20:34.630 00:20:36.609 Pranav: Srinivas was one name…

176 00:20:38.100 00:20:43.080 Pranav: I can find the name of the other person. But yeah, I don’t think we’ve hired any AI engineer.

177 00:20:43.360 00:20:48.639 Pranav: Right? And I think we brought, like, 3 or 4, maybe 3 to, like, the final round.

178 00:20:49.010 00:20:49.790 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

179 00:20:49.790 00:20:59.860 Pranav: I think those three I felt pretty good about. Or at least two of them I did. I think one, I initially said, like, keep warm, but then we wanted to bring them to the finals, so he ended up doing it.

180 00:20:59.860 00:21:02.449 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, it was Serenavas and Muhammad.

181 00:21:03.490 00:21:06.810 Pranav: Yeah, I think there’s also one other, maybe? No?

182 00:21:07.130 00:21:11.060 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, I think we had 3 go to AI Finals. Yeah, there were 3.

183 00:21:11.610 00:21:17.189 Kaela Gallagher: And I think… well, Utom and Sam can speak further to it. Go ahead.

184 00:21:18.440 00:21:22.849 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, they were… I mean, the… part of it was presentation for a couple of them, I think.

185 00:21:22.870 00:21:23.699 Pranav: That’s fair.

186 00:21:23.890 00:21:36.670 Samuel Roberts: And so, like, code-wise, things were okay, they weren’t, like, blowing me out of the water, and, like, enough to say, like, okay, we can get the presentation side. And then, I’m trying to think for… Muhammad’s presentation was good, the code was…

187 00:21:37.070 00:21:41.959 Samuel Roberts: solid, it wasn’t… it just didn’t feel like a hell yes to me at that point.

188 00:21:42.090 00:21:44.739 Samuel Roberts: And I think Mutom kind of felt the same way, so it was…

189 00:21:44.740 00:21:48.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, with Srinivas, he just rambled on for too long, like, I think…

190 00:21:48.260 00:21:49.010 Samuel Roberts: He built…

191 00:21:49.010 00:21:50.790 Uttam Kumaran: with this whole OCR thing.

192 00:21:51.250 00:21:51.940 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that’s great.

193 00:21:51.940 00:21:58.390 Uttam Kumaran: stopped… I think he just stopped talking at some point and let us ask questions, he would have made it. That’s right.

194 00:21:58.500 00:22:00.379 Uttam Kumaran: I’m, I’m, I’m very, like…

195 00:22:00.490 00:22:08.349 Uttam Kumaran: I’m… this is where you’re gonna see I’m, like, very conscious of, like, oh, is that person gonna go to a client call and just run over a call?

196 00:22:08.800 00:22:19.010 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So I’m starting to think about how do these power folks gonna perform in front of a client? And I felt like his technical solution was great, but, like, he just couldn’t get

197 00:22:19.420 00:22:36.190 Uttam Kumaran: passed himself to just, like, be like, this is an interview. And I think we tried to kind of get past that, and it wasn’t working. I think for Muhammad as well, I just felt like the presentation skills weren’t, like, amazing.

198 00:22:36.890 00:22:38.780 Uttam Kumaran: And I… and I feel like…

199 00:22:38.910 00:22:41.030 Uttam Kumaran: for the folks on the AI team.

200 00:22:41.200 00:22:51.770 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we want someone that can be a good foil, I think, to you, Pranav, and to you, Sam, on, like, getting in front of a client and absorbing, you know, requirements.

201 00:22:51.770 00:22:52.100 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me.

202 00:22:52.100 00:22:53.900 Uttam Kumaran: Weren’t like a hell yes on any of them.

203 00:22:54.090 00:22:54.730 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

204 00:22:54.980 00:22:59.620 Pranav: So, I guess my question, like, following that is, with,

205 00:22:59.810 00:23:08.470 Pranav: being in front of a client right now, like, Casey and Mustafa, for example, like, they aren’t in front of any of the AI clients. And that’s…

206 00:23:08.470 00:23:10.960 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… and that… and that’s because they’re not able to.

207 00:23:12.210 00:23:17.259 Uttam Kumaran: You see what I mean? Like, that’s wrong. Like, that is why we’re being held back.

208 00:23:17.770 00:23:25.429 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the fact that you cannot go put them in front of Yvette or Danny is holding you back.

209 00:23:25.430 00:23:43.829 Uttam Kumaran: And so we are trying to get people that can go do that, so that you can go do your job. It’s like Greg… Greg is able to crush it on default, because Demi is able to go direct. Like, Amber on CTA is able to go direct, so it frees me to go work on the contract. Like, you’re being held back by the fact that they’re not

210 00:23:43.950 00:23:53.109 Uttam Kumaran: capable of doing so. And so here’s where I’ll tackle that in two ways. One is I don’t want candidates who are gonna come in the door and just be, like, the people. We want bar raisers, right?

211 00:23:53.110 00:24:05.070 Uttam Kumaran: The second thing is, I think that’s fair… that feedback is good for Sam, to be like, Sam, we need to find a way to get Casey and Mustafa to go fish directly, right? And I think both of them have expressed that they want to do that.

212 00:24:05.070 00:24:12.429 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s, I think, there’s two problems there. I think one is, like, existing personnel, but this is where we want to raise the bar.

213 00:24:12.440 00:24:14.840 Uttam Kumaran: So, this is where, like, I want you to compare…

214 00:24:15.170 00:24:22.809 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know how to say it perfectly, but it’s like, I want people who you’re like, damn, this person is gonna go free me up to be the best CSO possible.

215 00:24:22.930 00:24:25.880 Uttam Kumaran: Not match up to, like, what we know today.

216 00:24:27.230 00:24:36.610 Pranav: Yeah, I guess what makes me feel like I can be the best CSO possible is when I can feel like the technical implementation is gonna get done quick, and it’s gonna get done right.

217 00:24:38.180 00:24:44.999 Pranav: So, I feel like when I was bringing up, like, Casey and Mustafa, like, I feel very confident in them to do that. And so…

218 00:24:45.110 00:24:51.820 Pranav: And so that’s why I was thinking of Srinivas in the same way. Now, yeah, like…

219 00:24:51.970 00:25:01.789 Pranav: I’m gonna have a technical discussion with him, which is why I felt very passionately about that. Like, oh yeah, he was, like, number one out of those three, out of, like, being able to do what,

220 00:25:02.020 00:25:08.360 Pranav: Like, kind of do the technical implementation, like, being very curious about the latest tools,

221 00:25:08.750 00:25:17.389 Pranav: And so, that’s where I saw him fit. I definitely didn’t think even that he would be, like, kind of doing presentations and stuff like that.

222 00:25:17.930 00:25:20.520 Pranav: So, I just wasn’t even thinking about him being…

223 00:25:20.520 00:25:38.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m interested in what other people think. Like, I’m open to being challenged on that. I just think that’s how I… when I… when I interviewed everybody here, I’m looking at these… I’m looking for people that are able to be empathetic and not just, like, addicted to the problem, and can actually see across multiple clients, but…

224 00:25:38.150 00:25:44.799 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think Srinamaz is a great example, maybe someone that was on the line, and maybe we got it wrong, or maybe we got it right. Like, I don’t know if anyone else

225 00:25:45.300 00:25:46.899 Uttam Kumaran: Has any reflections?

226 00:25:47.210 00:26:02.170 Greg Stoutenburg: I mean, my thought here is, like, if I’m thinking about who do I want to be working a client with me, I want… I want folks who I definitely feel comfortable with them interacting with the client directly. And the reason is because

227 00:26:02.330 00:26:18.709 Greg Stoutenburg: you know, say, you know, like, Demi’s so strong, and it’s a good thing that if, you know, if somebody asks a question in, like, the client channel from default, I can just be like, I’ll ask Demi, right? If… but if the way that’s gonna go is instead, I’d have to, like, come into a back channel.

228 00:26:18.710 00:26:32.639 Greg Stoutenburg: And then, he writes something down that I don’t really understand, and then I copy it and paste it back to Caitlin. Like, that’s gonna be a weird client experience, and it’s not going to be sustainable, right? There’s gonna… there’s gonna come a moment where I get a follow-up question and I just can’t answer it.

229 00:26:32.640 00:26:42.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Right? So, I think that it makes a ton of sense to have a standard where anybody who’s gonna come in that we’re gonna say, you know, yeah, this one’s good to go, like, they need to be able to interact with the client.

230 00:26:43.460 00:26:44.399 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s my take.

231 00:26:47.090 00:26:49.739 Demilade Agboola: I… I… I agree with that,

232 00:26:50.040 00:27:00.160 Demilade Agboola: We have had some clients where, like, we’ve… in back channels, they have to be like, hey, you need to stop replying to the client, and let other people respond to the client, because you’re gonna blow it.

233 00:27:00.270 00:27:05.030 Demilade Agboola: I don’t think that’s a sustainable, like, way to have, our wrong clients.

234 00:27:05.160 00:27:06.840 Demilade Agboola: And people who can…

235 00:27:06.950 00:27:16.319 Demilade Agboola: know how to respond, know when to be firm, know when to be able to listen, know when to be… like, how to respond to different, like, scenarios.

236 00:27:16.420 00:27:21.249 Demilade Agboola: It’s also very important in addition to whatever technical skills they have.

237 00:27:22.620 00:27:27.349 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I don’t think that was a firm requirement 6 months ago to join Brainforge.

238 00:27:27.550 00:27:30.029 Uttam Kumaran: Which is… which is the difference, right?

239 00:27:30.340 00:27:39.419 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t think we were ever, like, super, super firm on that until we realized that as we’re knocking down what is preventing us from becoming the best.

240 00:27:40.200 00:27:49.190 Uttam Kumaran: being able to walk in and have great client communication, in addition to being strong technical, I feel like is what it takes, you know?

241 00:27:49.340 00:27:51.829 Uttam Kumaran: Or being, like, 2 notches away.

242 00:27:52.170 00:27:59.019 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I don’t know for now, I just think coming to a final interview and sort of steamrolling like that, like, I can’t save you. You’re kind of, like.

243 00:27:59.020 00:27:59.880 Pranav: Meeting. Yeah.

244 00:27:59.880 00:28:00.959 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t know what to do.

245 00:28:01.290 00:28:02.959 Pranav: The way that, like, the way he describes it.

246 00:28:02.960 00:28:14.310 Uttam Kumaran: Only would have seen… I would have… I would have seen past it. Ask Robert, I would have been like, this person basically talked over me, but I think they’re great technically, like, I think I can figure it out.

247 00:28:14.740 00:28:22.959 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think we should do that anymore. I think people gotta… let’s say we only hire 2 more AI people for the next 12 months.

248 00:28:23.070 00:28:26.250 Uttam Kumaran: Like, let’s find the right person, you know?

249 00:28:26.720 00:28:29.879 Uttam Kumaran: It’s my… is how my perspective is changing a little bit.

250 00:28:30.530 00:28:41.080 Pranav: Yeah, I think that even is not even… that’s almost… how are you going to be able to work in a team environment with somebody that if you’re not going to be able to get a word in? So, that’s…

251 00:28:41.230 00:28:43.869 Pranav: Yeah, I didn’t know it was like that, so…

252 00:28:43.870 00:28:44.470 Kaela Gallagher: Today.

253 00:28:44.470 00:28:50.249 Uttam Kumaran: It wasn’t this… it wasn’t this dramatic, but also, like, these are… these are these things where I’m like.

254 00:28:50.930 00:28:57.619 Uttam Kumaran: okay, it’s… it’s like, I don’t know if some of these things we can change, and we’re looking for people that can come hit the ground running with.

255 00:28:57.620 00:28:58.000 Samuel Roberts: internet.

256 00:28:58.000 00:28:58.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, either.

257 00:28:58.760 00:28:59.620 Kaela Gallagher: That makes sense.

258 00:29:00.200 00:29:06.340 Pranav: Yeah, to give pushback, or maybe not even pushback, because I see where Greg and Demi are coming from,

259 00:29:06.590 00:29:19.009 Pranav: But I think how the AI team, like, the AI clients, how they’ve been operating is Casey does have some direct communication with Janiece, which I do appreciate, but I also…

260 00:29:19.010 00:29:31.449 Pranav: I feel like I am rereading it, too, just because I feel like, from my perspective, I need to have, like, an overarching understanding of, like, what is going on, right? Like, everything that people are working on, like, I should be able to talk to.

261 00:29:31.640 00:29:36.310 Pranav: Maybe that’s me kind of trying to do too much?

262 00:29:36.480 00:29:41.359 Pranav: But I think that’s, like, what I should be doing as CSO. And so, if that’s the case, like.

263 00:29:41.670 00:29:49.109 Pranav: genuinely don’t mind being one to respond, because if I can’t respond to it, then that means, like, I’m not understanding something properly.

264 00:30:01.360 00:30:02.509 Pranav: Does that make sense?

265 00:30:03.980 00:30:08.820 Demilade Agboola: I, I think, like, I get that, I just… I just feel like, potentially…

266 00:30:08.980 00:30:13.850 Demilade Agboola: It’s… there’s a balance, Between being in the loop.

267 00:30:14.150 00:30:17.079 Demilade Agboola: And… being unable to escape the loop.

268 00:30:17.670 00:30:18.400 Uttam Kumaran: dinner.

269 00:30:18.400 00:30:20.199 Demilade Agboola: Engineer cannot, like…

270 00:30:21.410 00:30:28.869 Demilade Agboola: Communicate with the client consistently, or you don’t feel confident or comfortable with the engineer having a one-on-one with the client.

271 00:30:29.130 00:30:31.509 Demilade Agboola: then I don’t think that will be…

272 00:30:31.670 00:30:42.559 Demilade Agboola: a great hire to have, to be honest. Yeah. So if you don’t… you can’t beat your chest and be like, you know what? For, you know, 2 days, I have… this person has just been talking to the client.

273 00:30:42.560 00:30:43.870 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly, exactly.

274 00:30:43.870 00:30:50.180 Demilade Agboola: And I don’t think it will blow up in my face, like, if you can’t, like, beat your chest and be comfortable about that, I don’t think that’s a good hire.

275 00:30:50.410 00:30:50.920 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

276 00:30:50.920 00:30:51.400 Pranav: Yeah, that’s.

277 00:30:51.400 00:30:56.120 Uttam Kumaran: Do you think you can actually just not review that at all? That’s… that’s trust.

278 00:30:57.180 00:31:03.209 Uttam Kumaran: Because, think about Pranav, if I say, hey, there’s 2 more clients coming, you’re not gonna be able on a daily basis, to keep up.

279 00:31:03.550 00:31:21.189 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And do you still have that trust at the end of the day? Like, that’s what… and then, you know, I think on our job on the recruiting side, I’m telling Kayla, like, I want to get people who, like Garrett, like Jasmine, like, you just throw into the deep end day one.

280 00:31:21.510 00:31:29.279 Uttam Kumaran: like, maybe in a year, we have a brain, like, an L&D standing up, where people… we can get people who are, like.

281 00:31:29.560 00:31:30.340 Uttam Kumaran: like…

282 00:31:30.540 00:31:38.450 Uttam Kumaran: lower on the excellence poll, but then they come into our certification program, and then we, like, turn them into grades. We’re just not there right now.

283 00:31:38.450 00:31:38.970 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

284 00:31:38.970 00:31:44.309 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you know, and so that’s… that’s sort of, like, how we’re trying to change a little bit.

285 00:31:45.190 00:31:46.590 Pranav: Yeah, that makes sense to me.

286 00:31:47.470 00:32:00.210 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think there’s, like, a parallel way where we could go about it a different way, more like you’re talking about, Pranav, but I just don’t think that’s how we’re thinking about it now, and I don’t think we should, necessarily. I think… I think exactly right. Like, in… in a year, in six months, if it’s…

287 00:32:00.790 00:32:10.800 Samuel Roberts: different, and we can bring in people that we can upskill and get them, you know, more… especially if it’s… they have the technical stuff and they lack the communication, then I think it’s a different conversation.

288 00:32:10.800 00:32:24.759 Uttam Kumaran: This is extremely hard, guys, like, this… this is… it’s so painful for me, also, to deny, like, I’m not… I’m not… but this is, like, we… I want you guys to be like, wow, I’m working with someone that’s, like, blowing our socks off, and I think…

289 00:32:24.890 00:32:34.339 Uttam Kumaran: Like, if we do that… if we do that for 3 months and we don’t find people, okay, then we’ll… we’ll… we’ll loosen… we’ll loosen up, but…

290 00:32:34.490 00:32:39.180 Uttam Kumaran: I just don’t… I think we’re gonna find that our company is gonna be…

291 00:32:39.520 00:32:52.890 Uttam Kumaran: like, as our revenue grows, we’re not gonna hire linearly. We are going to hire, but each person is gonna affect more and more revenue. And, like, that means that the concentration of talent has to remain really, really high.

292 00:32:53.330 00:32:56.780 Uttam Kumaran: And the trust has to be really, really high.

293 00:32:57.030 00:33:00.499 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna start… each of us is… we’re already doing so much, you know?

294 00:33:00.950 00:33:04.450 Uttam Kumaran: So, any loose link in the chain.

295 00:33:04.840 00:33:06.859 Uttam Kumaran: Can cause a lot of issues.

296 00:33:08.490 00:33:09.110 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

297 00:33:11.060 00:33:18.079 Kaela Gallagher: I know we’re a few minutes over time, guys, I saw your messages in the chat, though, about, Abdullah.

298 00:33:18.260 00:33:24.530 Kaela Gallagher: noted, working on that. If you think of anybody else, though, let me know.

299 00:33:24.800 00:33:42.699 Kaela Gallagher: wanted to just say, like, say one more thing. If you guys have any tips as we’ve been doing this together for a month or two now, as you’re developing your interviews, as you’re kind of finding your groove, would love for you guys to kind of share that with each other.

300 00:33:42.770 00:33:51.909 Kaela Gallagher: not only just feedback for each other, but also tips. I know, Sam, you’re, like, the fastest of all time at putting feedback into Notion, so if you.

301 00:33:51.910 00:33:54.369 Samuel Roberts: I don’t want to let it go, because it’ll escape my mind.

302 00:33:55.240 00:34:00.900 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, so if you have any tips on that, yeah, I feel like doing feedback sooner rather than later is just…

303 00:34:01.130 00:34:07.429 Kaela Gallagher: best for the most accurate feedback, too, right? So, yeah, if you have any tips there, let the.

304 00:34:07.430 00:34:22.960 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I just… I try to… I made sure that the time is blocked off after that meeting, usually, so that I can spend the time immediately. There’s something maybe to be said for digesting it a little bit longer, but I think that if I do that, I’ll lose track of what actually happened, and when it’s fresh, I feel…

305 00:34:23.040 00:34:31.809 Samuel Roberts: that I’m better able to really dive in. My kind of gut reaction is also something I don’t want to lose, but…

306 00:34:31.840 00:34:44.940 Samuel Roberts: that’s sort of… I just… I just make sure to do it immediately, rather than kind of… and I have tried to make sure that the default calendar has, like, time before and after for me to, like, prep and post, so if you haven’t done that, that’s a good idea, too.

307 00:34:45.300 00:35:03.109 Kaela Gallagher: Yes, I do want to call that out, guys, like, we can put buffers ahead of and after, your meeting, so if you guys want us to make that change in default, let us know. We can give you 10 minutes before the meeting and 15 minutes after, so, that’s a super easy fix.

308 00:35:03.530 00:35:13.120 Greg Stoutenburg: One thing that’s been helpful is, this was just Robert’s idea a couple weeks ago or so, is just during the panel, specifically for panel interviews,

309 00:35:13.460 00:35:15.110 Greg Stoutenburg: Having a live thread just going.

310 00:35:15.110 00:35:15.500 Samuel Roberts: Hmm.

311 00:35:15.500 00:35:29.730 Greg Stoutenburg: in the recruiting channel, because we can sort of, like, nudge each other in the direction the interview could go. You know, there have been times where it’s like, alright, this person’s just not gonna move forward, let’s just go ahead and wrap this up. So that’s been helpful for those interviews specifically.

312 00:35:30.500 00:35:41.409 Kaela Gallagher: I personally love the threads, too, because that gives me some, like, immediate feedback, too, and I just love looking at them during the interview, like, oh, what’s going on?

313 00:35:41.410 00:35:41.944 Greg Stoutenburg: So…

314 00:35:43.140 00:35:44.529 Kaela Gallagher: Love that you guys do that.

315 00:35:46.470 00:35:57.800 Kaela Gallagher: Alright, cool. Well, we can go ahead and wrap. I’ll send a summary to the Slack thread, too, because I know a few people couldn’t make it. But if you guys have any feedback for me, or the process in general, keep me posted.

316 00:36:00.440 00:36:01.200 Samuel Roberts: What’s good.

317 00:36:01.200 00:36:01.960 Kaela Gallagher: Alright.

318 00:36:01.960 00:36:02.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Thanks, see ya.

319 00:36:02.820 00:36:03.670 Samuel Roberts: Thank you, Nicole.

320 00:36:03.930 00:36:04.820 Pranav: Tuesday. Bye.

321 00:36:05.100 00:36:05.860 Kaela Gallagher: Bye.