Meeting Title: Brainforce x Eden Project Check-in Date: 2026-04-08 Meeting participants: Greg Stoutenburg, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:01:10.910 ⇒ 00:01:11.630 Robert Tseng: Right.
2 00:01:12.310 ⇒ 00:01:13.920 Greg Stoutenburg: I assumed you meant on a call.
3 00:01:14.200 ⇒ 00:01:14.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
4 00:01:17.390 ⇒ 00:01:21.250 Robert Tseng: Okay, so I’m looking at this, so…
5 00:01:21.790 ⇒ 00:01:28.760 Robert Tseng: I think in about an hour, we’re gonna meet with the Eden team. I mean, I could still drive that conversation, it’s fine.
6 00:01:28.930 ⇒ 00:01:35.659 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I mean, I feel like this is just a different work stream. Like, this is,
7 00:01:37.090 ⇒ 00:01:45.470 Robert Tseng: I’m trying to start from, like, mapping this back to what we have here, so… Q2 2026.
8 00:01:45.580 ⇒ 00:01:58.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I’ve more or less kind of taken you off as the point person on most of these, but, I mean, this is looking like a full-on product analytics workstream, and this is, like, not what we had scoped out.
9 00:01:59.070 ⇒ 00:02:01.969 Robert Tseng: So, what I want to do is…
10 00:02:02.080 ⇒ 00:02:07.509 Robert Tseng: I’m fine with maintaining this artifact and kicking it into motion, but I want to tell ELT, like, look.
11 00:02:07.530 ⇒ 00:02:19.119 Robert Tseng: if you want us to own and run this, we need… we need more budget, because I wasn’t expecting to pull Greg onto this project for the quarter, and, you know, you’re gonna need X number of hours of his time.
12 00:02:19.120 ⇒ 00:02:34.259 Robert Tseng: And so, I think two things I’d like to figure out. One is, like, do you actually, like, feel like you can… you can own this? How long will it take? And then, yeah, I think that’s… that’s pretty much it. So, like, I… I kind of view this as, like, as an upsell pitch.
13 00:02:35.090 ⇒ 00:02:37.149 Robert Tseng: Because this is definitely a lot more…
14 00:02:37.340 ⇒ 00:02:41.019 Robert Tseng: Than, like, kind of all this other stuff that’s here.
15 00:02:41.480 ⇒ 00:02:51.769 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. I guess my… my thought is just… I mean, I guess my thought is what’s gonna happen with some of the other leads, like, what’s gonna happen with Global VetLink? What’s gonna, you know, see if,
16 00:02:51.990 ⇒ 00:02:54.960 Greg Stoutenburg: Ambrook goes anywhere.
17 00:02:55.100 ⇒ 00:03:04.710 Greg Stoutenburg: like, as of right now, I can take on some more hours, but, you know, I don’t wanna… I don’t wanna get into a position where I’m dropping things because, you know, there’s just too many.
18 00:03:04.710 ⇒ 00:03:12.840 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, when that time comes, then, like, I would want to just hire another analyst. I think you talk to…
19 00:03:14.070 ⇒ 00:03:31.169 Robert Tseng: someone… some girl from, in Denver, that we kind of deferred, even though she was a good candidate, because… whatever, but, like, I think we can basically… for the, you know, for smaller… for smaller clients, like, you… you would basically just end up,
20 00:03:32.040 ⇒ 00:03:33.020 Robert Tseng: Managing.
21 00:03:33.400 ⇒ 00:03:38.870 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, managing is the wrong word, but putting other product analysts under you.
22 00:03:39.270 ⇒ 00:03:45.400 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, alright. And then, I guess my other question, then, is…
23 00:03:45.510 ⇒ 00:03:56.140 Greg Stoutenburg: around what they’d want from this. I mean, is it just, like, create and maintain the tracking plan, or is it run the implementation sprints as well to get our engine
24 00:03:56.470 ⇒ 00:03:57.410 Greg Stoutenburg: stuff.
25 00:03:58.020 ⇒ 00:04:06.610 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, I… okay, that’s a good sense to wait. So, I think moving into this plan, I don’t think the ask is really, who’s this person?
26 00:04:07.670 ⇒ 00:04:24.139 Robert Tseng: Oh. I don’t think it’s just that we ask them to implement the events. I think, really, this is the outcome they want to drive, and, like, who is going to… this is kind of a CRO exercise, but, like, kind of from, like, a product management lens. Like,
27 00:04:24.480 ⇒ 00:04:28.889 Robert Tseng: So I kind of view this as, like, a, hey, look, Eden, like, this… we can…
28 00:04:29.070 ⇒ 00:04:32.700 Robert Tseng: Like, we can push this forward, but this is gonna be, like.
29 00:04:33.720 ⇒ 00:04:37.440 Robert Tseng: A product management workstream going after this particular objective.
30 00:04:38.130 ⇒ 00:04:47.609 Robert Tseng: you know, Greg is the person on Brainforce that’s going to… that’s going to lead this. Your counterpart would probably be… your business counterpart would probably be Ryan.
31 00:04:47.840 ⇒ 00:04:59.780 Robert Tseng: and, you know, your engineers would not really be great for people. Like, any, like, tweaks to event tracking would probably be, Girish’s team. So, I think that’s what this is looking like. So…
32 00:05:00.110 ⇒ 00:05:01.260 Robert Tseng: I mean, I can…
33 00:05:01.590 ⇒ 00:05:18.150 Robert Tseng: we can kind of go through the high level of, like, what outcomes they’re trying to get to. Like, I think they’re trying to drive conversion… intake order conversion rate, which I think, even without doing very much, I believe, we will already hit this. So, from as far as…
34 00:05:18.370 ⇒ 00:05:26.530 Robert Tseng: looking… what Zoran is seeing, just like our funnel drop-off is already getting better, so I don’t really even think this is, like, a direct thing.
35 00:05:26.680 ⇒ 00:05:38.570 Robert Tseng: But what Adam is saying here, which I will talk about on the ELT call, is like, look, if you really want to drive order… second order return rate up by, you know, whatever, 15% by the Q2, then we need, like.
36 00:05:38.570 ⇒ 00:05:48.109 Robert Tseng: you know, somebody who’s really just owning that as, like, their primary objective. So, yeah, I do actually think… I already adjusted some things in the doc.
37 00:05:48.390 ⇒ 00:05:55.049 Robert Tseng: I kind of changed, like, the North Star metrics. Like, I think these are the metrics that I feel like would actually help move the needle.
38 00:05:55.390 ⇒ 00:06:05.779 Robert Tseng: I mean, these are the questions that they will eventually want to be able to answer, and things we have to keep learning from, so I do feel like there is… it is tightly scoped in terms of, like.
39 00:06:06.320 ⇒ 00:06:12.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think this is a pretty contained workstream. We know what metrics we need to move, we know what the primary questions are.
40 00:06:12.270 ⇒ 00:06:17.999 Robert Tseng: This is all just, like, whatever fluff that they had, and that I just moved out because it was kind of noisy.
41 00:06:18.280 ⇒ 00:06:27.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, I feel like this would… this is a good strategy… Kind of like… objectives,
42 00:06:27.920 ⇒ 00:06:28.770 Robert Tseng: And…
43 00:06:29.100 ⇒ 00:06:35.759 Robert Tseng: I mean, we don’t have to make any commitments now, I just want to see if this is something you’re open to, and, like.
44 00:06:35.950 ⇒ 00:06:40.270 Robert Tseng: you know, if it is, then I want to sell, I want to sell this to them today.
45 00:06:41.550 ⇒ 00:06:47.320 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Why am I hesitating?
46 00:06:51.050 ⇒ 00:06:56.099 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I don’t know. This seems… I mean, this also seems very much like what I proposed for the.
47 00:06:56.100 ⇒ 00:06:56.810 Robert Tseng: It is. Of course.
48 00:06:56.810 ⇒ 00:06:57.039 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh.
49 00:06:57.270 ⇒ 00:06:59.910 Robert Tseng: I think it just… the timing wasn’t there in, like, last quarter.
50 00:06:59.910 ⇒ 00:07:00.240 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
51 00:07:00.240 ⇒ 00:07:13.899 Robert Tseng: And then, I think this is… I think the time is now. Obviously, Q1, you pitched this. I brought you on thinking that we were gonna work on this. The Eden OS was delayed. Eventually, you got pulled into Omni, and that kind of happened.
52 00:07:13.900 ⇒ 00:07:14.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
53 00:07:14.820 ⇒ 00:07:28.649 Robert Tseng: I don’t know about you, but, like, I don’t think that you should stay in doing Omni forever, like, I would prefer that to, you know, end up with someone else, because I feel like you could be doing better things than Omni, honestly, so, yeah.
54 00:07:28.650 ⇒ 00:07:32.790 Greg Stoutenburg: It’s also not really… it’s not really, like, a work stream now, like, it’s in, so now just, like, QA stuff.
55 00:07:32.790 ⇒ 00:07:34.300 Robert Tseng: Just, like, maintenance and QA, yeah.
56 00:07:34.300 ⇒ 00:07:39.660 Greg Stoutenburg: Right, yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah, I think this seems sensible.
57 00:07:40.280 ⇒ 00:07:46.310 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I think this seems sensible. And then, like, as far as the event tracking plan itself.
58 00:07:46.470 ⇒ 00:07:51.439 Greg Stoutenburg: I think the events now make a lot more sense.
59 00:07:51.580 ⇒ 00:08:02.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Great. There was an enormous amount of just, like, redundancy, like… Yeah. I mean, there were places where, I think I counted at one point, there were, like, 4 different events that were really just a page view. Sure.
60 00:08:02.950 ⇒ 00:08:15.839 Greg Stoutenburg: So, it, you know, it was really, like, that kind of thing. And then, just trimming a bunch of stuff, like, same thing for, like, CTAs. There were several events that were really just different CTA clicks that just need to go, CTA clicked, what was the CTA? Yep.
61 00:08:16.130 ⇒ 00:08:34.419 Greg Stoutenburg: And then the event properties tab is very, very long, and I’ll… I’ll trim that as well, but at least if… if at this point, in an hour here, we have to be able to say, okay, the engineers are chomping at the bit and want to engineer something, we could say, engineer this tab, and
62 00:08:35.330 ⇒ 00:08:37.350 Greg Stoutenburg: And we’ll get back to you on the event properties.
63 00:08:38.210 ⇒ 00:08:50.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay. But anyway, as far as the workstream, yeah, I think this makes sense. I like working with Ryan. I think it would be helpful for me working with him to be able to point to these metrics and say.
64 00:08:50.780 ⇒ 00:08:51.150 Robert Tseng: Totally.
65 00:08:51.150 ⇒ 00:08:53.869 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m not putting out fires.
66 00:08:53.870 ⇒ 00:08:54.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
67 00:08:54.310 ⇒ 00:09:10.339 Greg Stoutenburg: that is… that is one thing about the experience working with Eden. Like, I really only had probably 3 weeks to do experimentation stuff with them, and was happy with the talk I gave them, but they would just waste so much time. And, waste so much time, because, you know, from thinking things are fire, so I think that.
68 00:09:10.340 ⇒ 00:09:11.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
69 00:09:11.010 ⇒ 00:09:18.630 Greg Stoutenburg: Being able to say, hey, you know, this is the plan, this is what we’re gonna do, and let’s find ways to move this number up by 13 percentage points.
70 00:09:19.260 ⇒ 00:09:21.980 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, that’s a nice target.
71 00:09:23.700 ⇒ 00:09:41.420 Robert Tseng: Cool, then yeah, I think that this would be the guardrail, and anything that’s not this, you just deflect to our team, and I will either, like, reject, like, you can deflect to me, like, sounds good. Like, yeah, I want to try to keep this more contained, so we actually can hit this outcome this time.
72 00:09:41.830 ⇒ 00:09:47.340 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, alright, let’s do it. Cool.
73 00:09:48.010 ⇒ 00:09:51.749 Greg Stoutenburg: For the meeting in 40 minutes, then,
74 00:09:52.060 ⇒ 00:09:55.199 Greg Stoutenburg: I mean, what do we need to do besides, say.
75 00:09:55.390 ⇒ 00:09:57.179 Greg Stoutenburg: We trimmed this down a lot.
76 00:09:59.170 ⇒ 00:10:09.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think we’ll tell them that we trimmed it down, we should just tell them where to start, and then they’ll ask any questions. I think the… visually, it’s a little bit hard to read, to be honest. Like, I mean, I might change some of the formatting before then.
77 00:10:09.500 ⇒ 00:10:10.360 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah.
78 00:10:11.570 ⇒ 00:10:13.499 Greg Stoutenburg: I try to do the quickest improvement.
79 00:10:13.500 ⇒ 00:10:14.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
80 00:10:14.890 ⇒ 00:10:20.709 Robert Tseng: But, I mean, I think, like, baseline, like, it looks right. Like, I think this is generally how I set it up. I typically have…
81 00:10:21.220 ⇒ 00:10:21.810 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.
82 00:10:21.810 ⇒ 00:10:26.590 Robert Tseng: Whatever that gets… it’s pretty similar. So, I think it looks…
83 00:10:27.180 ⇒ 00:10:35.459 Robert Tseng: As long as you feel comfortable, like, saying… telling the engineers, this is what you gotta implement, I think the prioritization is a little bit…
84 00:10:35.570 ⇒ 00:10:37.889 Robert Tseng: off, like, I don’t know if we wanna…
85 00:10:39.480 ⇒ 00:10:51.349 Greg Stoutenburg: Maybe, or honestly, maybe even just delete it and say, now that there’s not 40 events, actually closer to 60, if you count all the interaction events, if they’re all just P0, start from the top of the page.
86 00:10:51.950 ⇒ 00:10:52.589 Robert Tseng: I see.
87 00:10:54.580 ⇒ 00:10:58.409 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t really know why it’s sequenced this way, but okay, sure.
88 00:11:00.160 ⇒ 00:11:06.089 Robert Tseng: Cool. So I’m gonna take one more pass, I’ll just clean up this… this side. You’re gonna say, basically, ignore these two tabs?
89 00:11:06.090 ⇒ 00:11:08.480 Greg Stoutenburg: Ignore these for right now. They don’t need to engineer today.
90 00:11:08.480 ⇒ 00:11:11.849 Robert Tseng: I’m pretty much just gonna throw that into the archive.
91 00:11:12.100 ⇒ 00:11:12.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
92 00:11:12.470 ⇒ 00:11:16.499 Robert Tseng: And this is all just… blah blah. So, I think,
93 00:11:16.930 ⇒ 00:11:19.520 Robert Tseng: I don’t really care about any of those other things.
94 00:11:19.740 ⇒ 00:11:20.580 Robert Tseng: Yep.
95 00:11:21.130 ⇒ 00:11:29.369 Robert Tseng: Cool. Then, yeah, I think these are the only two things. I also don’t really care to maintain this, I think this is a waste of time, and we already have linear, so I don’t think this is…
96 00:11:29.370 ⇒ 00:11:31.169 Greg Stoutenburg: valuable to me at all. Yeah.
97 00:11:31.170 ⇒ 00:11:33.390 Robert Tseng: So, I’m also gonna check that in the archive.
98 00:11:33.390 ⇒ 00:11:34.700 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah.
99 00:11:34.880 ⇒ 00:11:35.930 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, cool.
100 00:11:36.230 ⇒ 00:11:47.299 Robert Tseng: Cool. So I basically will end up presenting this twice. One is, like, in 40 minutes with the engineers, making sure they can action off of this. I’m gonna… and then… yeah, I’ll just present this more to ELT.
101 00:11:47.390 ⇒ 00:12:01.280 Robert Tseng: And I’m happy to, you know, I think at worst, we set them off, and they just go and do this. I will just do weekly meetings with them, ask them, you know, if they’ve… if they’re on track or not track, but I’m not actually gonna own the outcome here. But if they want us to own the outcome here.
102 00:12:01.280 ⇒ 00:12:11.640 Robert Tseng: Then I need a dedicated Greg for X number of hours, and you know, I’m gonna tack that on at least at 10K, 15K a month, so that’s pretty much what I’m gonna pitch them.
103 00:12:11.900 ⇒ 00:12:17.850 Greg Stoutenburg: Got it. So, if they say no, then we’re just like, alright, here’s your tracking plan, your engineers handle it. If they say yes.
104 00:12:18.200 ⇒ 00:12:21.010 Greg Stoutenburg: Engineers do the tracking plant, but also will own the outcome.
105 00:12:21.170 ⇒ 00:12:21.840 Robert Tseng: Yep.
106 00:12:21.840 ⇒ 00:12:26.369 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, got it. Okay, cool, sounds good to me. And I’ll just,
107 00:12:27.470 ⇒ 00:12:32.410 Greg Stoutenburg: I don’t know, by the end of the week. Is that good enough? By the end of the week, I can get through the properties tabs?
108 00:12:32.950 ⇒ 00:12:36.159 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah, totally. I don’t… I don’t think that’s urgent.
109 00:12:36.160 ⇒ 00:12:36.580 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
110 00:12:36.580 ⇒ 00:12:37.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
111 00:12:37.570 ⇒ 00:12:38.440 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright.
112 00:12:38.970 ⇒ 00:12:39.460 Greg Stoutenburg: Good.
113 00:12:39.460 ⇒ 00:12:42.060 Robert Tseng: Cool. Yeah.
114 00:12:42.320 ⇒ 00:12:58.970 Robert Tseng: Hopefully that will… hopefully you’re not spending… like, you’re not, like, kind of ping-ponging back and forth on… on Eden. If there’s anything else that you’re getting pulled into that you feel like you shouldn’t, just let me know, and I will… I will move it off. Like, I basically am trying to move as much of the BI stuff off you to Jasmine.
115 00:12:59.110 ⇒ 00:13:04.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah, so, I know she’s still rappy, but…
116 00:13:04.220 ⇒ 00:13:22.980 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, once, something I did catch is once Mustafa’s back, there are still a handful of QA tickets from before that I want him to just go in and review, and go, like, hey, there are outstanding changes we already logged, like, you gotta do them. Other than that, yeah, I mean, it’s just waiting around for the next time that Mitesh or Josh say, I don’t like this chart, and then…
117 00:13:22.980 ⇒ 00:13:25.029 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Jamie. So, yeah, yeah.
118 00:13:25.030 ⇒ 00:13:26.340 Robert Tseng: That’s… that’s how it is, yeah.
119 00:13:26.340 ⇒ 00:13:34.899 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, okay. Cool. Should I… so I’m still on the ELT invite. Should I go to… I don’t… I don’t think I need to go to that, but should I go to that?
120 00:13:36.530 ⇒ 00:13:44.799 Robert Tseng: I think you should today, because I want to be like, you’re gonna get more of Greg’s time, and you can just say something there.
121 00:13:45.140 ⇒ 00:13:48.540 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, and I can go, yeah, and I can go in and, like, you know.
122 00:13:49.260 ⇒ 00:13:54.399 Greg Stoutenburg: if Adam has any questions about, like, you know, why’d you make changes to the tracking plan? I can…
123 00:13:54.750 ⇒ 00:13:55.320 Robert Tseng: Yes.
124 00:13:55.320 ⇒ 00:13:55.950 Greg Stoutenburg: But…
125 00:13:57.640 ⇒ 00:13:59.910 Robert Tseng: I think that would be good.
126 00:13:59.910 ⇒ 00:14:02.469 Greg Stoutenburg: AI-generated tracking plans, please.
127 00:14:02.470 ⇒ 00:14:03.919 Robert Tseng: Yes. Yeah.
128 00:14:04.290 ⇒ 00:14:06.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Obviously, I wouldn’t say that. Okay. All right.
129 00:14:06.880 ⇒ 00:14:08.629 Greg Stoutenburg: Well, I’ll go to this one.
130 00:14:08.840 ⇒ 00:14:26.009 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay, last thing not related to the client stuff, is on partnerships. I know that you were kind of, like, in threads with MixedPanel Amplitude before, and I know there’s a lot of noise, but… so I’m basically owning the partnership motion this quarter, and basically, yeah, there may be a couple touch points…
131 00:14:26.600 ⇒ 00:14:40.240 Robert Tseng: you know, I want you to actually do the interview with them, like, you know, if they want to do co-content creation, like, to loop you in there. So, I think there will be some, like, ad hoc partnership things that I want to involve you in.
132 00:14:40.440 ⇒ 00:14:41.100 Robert Tseng: Family.
133 00:14:41.100 ⇒ 00:14:42.289 Greg Stoutenburg: I want to do more of that.
134 00:14:42.500 ⇒ 00:14:44.980 Robert Tseng: Okay, great. Just wanted to make sure you’re okay with that.
135 00:14:45.180 ⇒ 00:14:51.290 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep. Yeah, good. Yeah. That reminds me, I owed their, I owed the Mixpanel AIPM
136 00:14:51.390 ⇒ 00:14:54.700 Greg Stoutenburg: Like, a draft of a blog post from forever ago.
137 00:14:54.900 ⇒ 00:15:01.339 Robert Tseng: Yeah, all good. I’m gonna fire off a bunch of messages to kind of get us back in the loop there.
138 00:15:01.760 ⇒ 00:15:02.890 Robert Tseng: But, yeah.
139 00:15:03.210 ⇒ 00:15:09.800 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. I don’t know what happened with Hugo, but, like, yeah, I really hope we can get some of these, some of these, you know.
140 00:15:09.800 ⇒ 00:15:14.190 Robert Tseng: He got let go, I’m trying to recruit him, so I’m… we’re interviewing him, yeah.
141 00:15:14.190 ⇒ 00:15:15.179 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, cool.
142 00:15:15.540 ⇒ 00:15:16.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
143 00:15:16.160 ⇒ 00:15:18.159 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, alright, great.
144 00:15:18.160 ⇒ 00:15:22.969 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so If not him, I’m trying to find a partnerships manager, specifically, so…
145 00:15:22.970 ⇒ 00:15:34.989 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, yeah. Yeah, I’d love to be able to actually use, you know, he was pretty good to us in setting up the free 3-month thing, but just, we haven’t got anybody to bite, so… Yeah.
146 00:15:37.130 ⇒ 00:15:37.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
147 00:15:38.810 ⇒ 00:15:39.949 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay. Okay.
148 00:15:39.960 ⇒ 00:15:40.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool, cool.
149 00:15:40.550 ⇒ 00:15:41.089 Robert Tseng: That’s all I got.
150 00:15:41.090 ⇒ 00:15:41.880 Greg Stoutenburg: I bet.
151 00:15:41.880 ⇒ 00:15:42.340 Robert Tseng: Fucking rail.
152 00:15:42.720 ⇒ 00:15:43.570 Greg Stoutenburg: Thanks.