Meeting Title: Q2 Kickoff - Sam Date: 2026-04-02 Meeting participants: Kaela Gallagher, Samuel Roberts, Uttam Kumaran
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1 00:10:49.020 ⇒ 00:10:50.759 Samuel Roberts: Hey, sorry, one sec.
2 00:10:53.980 ⇒ 00:10:56.179 Samuel Roberts: Where’d everything go? Okay.
3 00:10:57.870 ⇒ 00:11:00.210 Samuel Roberts: Sorry, Zoom crashed right after that meeting, so it just.
4 00:11:00.210 ⇒ 00:11:00.729 Kaela Gallagher: I was like.
5 00:11:00.730 ⇒ 00:11:03.700 Samuel Roberts: Like, opened back up, and… Ugh.
6 00:11:04.130 ⇒ 00:11:05.989 Samuel Roberts: Alright, there we go, there we go.
7 00:11:05.990 ⇒ 00:11:07.169 Kaela Gallagher: Alright, now we’re back.
8 00:11:07.320 ⇒ 00:11:08.420 Samuel Roberts: I have it. Okay, cool.
9 00:11:09.590 ⇒ 00:11:10.159 Kaela Gallagher: How’s it going?
10 00:11:10.160 ⇒ 00:11:10.560 Samuel Roberts: How are you doing?
11 00:11:10.560 ⇒ 00:11:11.840 Kaela Gallagher: Who’s the meeting with?
12 00:11:12.500 ⇒ 00:11:17.159 Samuel Roberts: This was with Miranda for the, like, open work platform stuff.
13 00:11:18.020 ⇒ 00:11:19.510 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, cool.
14 00:11:19.510 ⇒ 00:11:34.320 Samuel Roberts: So, I… yeah, I’m… I was a little frustrated because it was working, and then it wasn’t working, and then yesterday she and I chatted, and I debugged something and got it fixed, but it worked for me and not for her, so there’s a little bit more to do before she can get in there and play around, and we can start making plans for…
15 00:11:35.050 ⇒ 00:11:38.550 Samuel Roberts: Further development, but, yeah.
16 00:11:38.960 ⇒ 00:11:40.450 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Awesome.
17 00:11:40.720 ⇒ 00:11:53.910 Samuel Roberts: I’m, like, I feel, like, a little distracted, because I was just, like, in trying to figure out, like… Yesterday, it was literally, like, changing one entry in the railway deployment fixed everything, and I feel like something like that is wrong now, too, but I was, like.
18 00:11:54.170 ⇒ 00:11:56.249 Samuel Roberts: Not able to sort it out fast enough, so…
19 00:11:56.250 ⇒ 00:11:58.000 Kaela Gallagher: Oh, dang.
20 00:11:58.350 ⇒ 00:11:59.550 Samuel Roberts: I know, yeah.
21 00:11:59.850 ⇒ 00:12:04.540 Samuel Roberts: Utam should be over here in a second, I would think. He got off the same time I did, so…
22 00:12:04.720 ⇒ 00:12:12.740 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, no worries. How has… Everything recruiting-related been going.
23 00:12:12.740 ⇒ 00:12:14.269 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, so, I mean…
24 00:12:15.200 ⇒ 00:12:20.499 Samuel Roberts: We… I mean, we had some… we were… Uptam and I talked about the other… the applicants previously. I think…
25 00:12:20.990 ⇒ 00:12:27.070 Samuel Roberts: it was… I don’t remember people’s names at this point. The first two were decent.
26 00:12:27.270 ⇒ 00:12:28.130 Kaela Gallagher: Yes.
27 00:12:29.610 ⇒ 00:12:34.970 Samuel Roberts: Muhammad was pretty good. Something… we… neither one of us was, like, a hell yes on him, and it was kind of like a…
28 00:12:35.910 ⇒ 00:12:38.199 Samuel Roberts: Something… also just…
29 00:12:39.520 ⇒ 00:12:52.409 Samuel Roberts: he didn’t submit things the right way, and I don’t want to think that that’s, like, a problem, but it just made me question, like, what’s going on? Like, the way he… there was no, like, Git history on anything he did. It was just, like, I… I don’t want to be suspicious that, like.
30 00:12:52.750 ⇒ 00:13:04.490 Samuel Roberts: he was doing it or not, but I don’t know, like, the way he talked about it, it just… a few things just… and I wasn’t, like, it was good, but it wasn’t like a, I wanna… definitely, so he and I were just kind of like, if I’m… neither one of us was, like, gung-ho. So,
31 00:13:05.540 ⇒ 00:13:15.420 Samuel Roberts: he was like, yeah, just keep… we’ll just keep going. So I… I mean, I… I didn’t dislike any of them either. I think, like, they could do decent work. I don’t know how…
32 00:13:15.960 ⇒ 00:13:20.609 Samuel Roberts: they might align to, like, CSO SL-type things.
33 00:13:20.810 ⇒ 00:13:25.900 Samuel Roberts: That’s sort of an open question, and like… I think…
34 00:13:26.180 ⇒ 00:13:33.659 Samuel Roberts: Besides that, like, I’m pretty… I mean, I don’t know, he didn’t show up today, so I was, like, ready… I was, like, in interview mode, and then he didn’t come, and I was like, okay, well…
35 00:13:33.930 ⇒ 00:13:34.550 Kaela Gallagher: I’m kidding.
36 00:13:34.550 ⇒ 00:13:39.280 Samuel Roberts: But, yeah, I mean, I think… yeah, I’m, I’m…
37 00:13:40.690 ⇒ 00:13:44.140 Samuel Roberts: I don’t know if I’m being too harsh or, you know, whatnot, I don’t know.
38 00:13:44.140 ⇒ 00:13:44.590 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
39 00:13:45.030 ⇒ 00:13:48.050 Samuel Roberts: it is… I don’t know, he… Utomi just kept saying, like, you know.
40 00:13:48.530 ⇒ 00:13:51.860 Samuel Roberts: If it’s not a hell yes, like, you know, we want people that we want to be…
41 00:13:51.860 ⇒ 00:13:52.410 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
42 00:13:52.850 ⇒ 00:13:53.929 Samuel Roberts: You know, so I was like.
43 00:13:54.580 ⇒ 00:13:57.679 Samuel Roberts: I get that. It’s also hard in this pro- I’m not used to, like…
44 00:13:57.990 ⇒ 00:14:05.099 Samuel Roberts: it’s been a while since I’ve done some of this, like, my previous company, I was not hiring engineers, you know, like, when I was doing most of the hiring, so it’s a little bit different.
45 00:14:05.100 ⇒ 00:14:05.540 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
46 00:14:05.540 ⇒ 00:14:08.580 Samuel Roberts: It’s less technical, and that’s the one that we did most of the hiring, so…
47 00:14:08.840 ⇒ 00:14:09.640 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
48 00:14:09.640 ⇒ 00:14:14.149 Samuel Roberts: But it’s a little bit of a different one, I’m trying to, like… and with AI tools, it’s like, everyone can…
49 00:14:15.030 ⇒ 00:14:20.680 Samuel Roberts: do the work, it’s just, like, how they thought things through, which I thought was an interesting thing to see.
50 00:14:21.060 ⇒ 00:14:32.620 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, okay. Yeah, I agree with Utam, like, it should be a hell yes, like, especially considering, you know, you’re the service lead for AI, like, these people are gonna be…
51 00:14:32.930 ⇒ 00:14:35.219 Kaela Gallagher: On your… on your team, and, like, they’re.
52 00:14:35.220 ⇒ 00:14:35.690 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
53 00:14:35.690 ⇒ 00:14:46.360 Kaela Gallagher: gonna be a reflection of your team and what you produce, and so it’s really important for you to be excited about them. So, I agree with that.
54 00:14:48.270 ⇒ 00:15:00.360 Kaela Gallagher: I guess, between those three… so, the first two that you had talked to, I want to say they were maybe in the process before I got here, or they came through, like.
55 00:15:01.170 ⇒ 00:15:03.240 Kaela Gallagher: a Loom video, or something like that.
56 00:15:03.240 ⇒ 00:15:04.719 Samuel Roberts: There were looms to begin with, yeah.
57 00:15:04.720 ⇒ 00:15:14.050 Kaela Gallagher: Yes, but Mohammed was one that I had, like, specifically targeted. He works for a competitor, like, he had the consulting background, like…
58 00:15:14.050 ⇒ 00:15:16.299 Samuel Roberts: Okay, okay. Somebody that I had, like…
59 00:15:16.560 ⇒ 00:15:18.400 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, really,
60 00:15:18.940 ⇒ 00:15:22.640 Kaela Gallagher: picked out, and, like, I did his, instead of a Loom video, like, I did a Brainforge.
61 00:15:22.640 ⇒ 00:15:23.270 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.
62 00:15:23.270 ⇒ 00:15:35.929 Kaela Gallagher: And so, I guess when we get to this stage, and we have three finals, and we don’t have a yes, I’m just curious, like, what could I do better when I’m sourcing?
63 00:15:36.290 ⇒ 00:15:42.580 Kaela Gallagher: Or, like, were there any, like, consistent gaps that you noticed? Like, hey, we needed to, like.
64 00:15:43.010 ⇒ 00:15:48.960 Kaela Gallagher: catch this sooner. It’s hard, because you and I are both, like, kind of at the initial stages, but just curious if you have.
65 00:15:48.960 ⇒ 00:15:53.880 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I think… I don’t think necessarily… I mean, I… I… I think sourcing him, like, that was…
66 00:15:54.020 ⇒ 00:15:57.389 Samuel Roberts: Like, he fit, you know, it was just kind of like… he didn’t…
67 00:15:58.870 ⇒ 00:16:17.950 Samuel Roberts: strike me the right… I don’t know. Like, I think that he was good. I mean, he was definitely, like, my top choice by the end, because of… his presentation was well done. I still… there’s something that struck me a little bit weird, I don’t know how to even phrase that, and I tried not to let that influence me too much,
68 00:16:18.390 ⇒ 00:16:22.640 Samuel Roberts: Because, like, the whole… his whole final thing, like, he hadn’t… he didn’t send the code in initially, he just sent the…
69 00:16:22.770 ⇒ 00:16:24.470 Samuel Roberts: presentation, and I was like.
70 00:16:24.850 ⇒ 00:16:28.950 Samuel Roberts: A few little things like that, but his presentation was good. He definitely had more of the consulting, kind of.
71 00:16:30.070 ⇒ 00:16:32.790 Samuel Roberts: angle, which I think I could see that being a better…
72 00:16:34.090 ⇒ 00:16:49.299 Samuel Roberts: fit for, like, a CSO kind of thing, meeting with clients and things like that. Overall, I don’t know if there’s much different to do, like, that was good. I think the other two, yeah, the other two, I think, were looms, and they were excited, and, you know, they did a decent
73 00:16:49.620 ⇒ 00:16:52.020 Samuel Roberts: A decent job through the process,
74 00:16:52.750 ⇒ 00:17:03.850 Samuel Roberts: But, yeah, I don’t know, something just didn’t… I don’t know. I don’t think… I don’t think there’s much I can tell you to do, like, this was definitely wrong, this wasn’t. I’m… I’m debating internally, because right now I think the…
75 00:17:04.920 ⇒ 00:17:11.849 Samuel Roberts: the tech challenge is, like, TypeScript or Python, and I’m debating if I want to start narrowing that a little bit.
76 00:17:12.020 ⇒ 00:17:13.519 Samuel Roberts: I don’t necessarily think I’m…
77 00:17:13.520 ⇒ 00:17:14.040 Kaela Gallagher: Hmm.
78 00:17:14.040 ⇒ 00:17:16.869 Samuel Roberts: like, I want people that can… especially with AI tools, like, I’m not…
79 00:17:17.089 ⇒ 00:17:24.059 Samuel Roberts: I’m not a Python guy in terms of my background, but I’ve done it now, kind of thing, and so I feel like people can figure things out, and with the AI tools, unless…
80 00:17:24.160 ⇒ 00:17:31.829 Samuel Roberts: less concern, but the more I’m thinking about it, the more I’m not sure about if that needs to be something we care about a little bit more.
81 00:17:31.960 ⇒ 00:17:32.500 Samuel Roberts: But that’s…
82 00:17:32.500 ⇒ 00:17:32.940 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
83 00:17:32.940 ⇒ 00:17:33.540 Samuel Roberts: like.
84 00:17:33.540 ⇒ 00:17:42.829 Uttam Kumaran: Would you rather change, like, the presentation, maybe? Like, I still think it’s helpful for people to explain.
85 00:17:43.130 ⇒ 00:17:43.870 Samuel Roberts: Definitely, definitely.
86 00:17:45.580 ⇒ 00:17:52.479 Uttam Kumaran: And maybe we think about tougher concepts to explain, or we think about scenarios that our clients come with.
87 00:17:52.590 ⇒ 00:17:58.129 Uttam Kumaran: And… You know, and then tighten it up versus life. Yeah, I don’t know.
88 00:18:01.650 ⇒ 00:18:12.329 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, well, keep me posted as you guys keep… keep going through. Yeah, and if you do want to narrow anything down in terms of… of tech stack.
89 00:18:12.550 ⇒ 00:18:16.049 Kaela Gallagher: And we’ll keep searching.
90 00:18:16.050 ⇒ 00:18:23.510 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I like that challenge, too. Like, I wish I put that together a while back, and I think it was based on something
91 00:18:23.660 ⇒ 00:18:25.559 Samuel Roberts: Like, real world, that we could…
92 00:18:26.000 ⇒ 00:18:42.570 Samuel Roberts: before I had joined, and I was like, no, this actually, like, it fits a lot, and this was before I think we were even necessarily doing a separate data, separate AI one, so it was kind of like a how would they do with this source, and how would they function? So it was, like, it was a little more general, so I’m wondering if there’s more thought to put there, too. But I’m not…
93 00:18:42.700 ⇒ 00:18:53.819 Samuel Roberts: I’m not sure. I thought that they all had different takes on it, which I thought was interesting. You know, they did slang in slightly different ways, and that was great, and like, it’s not a, oh, that’s the right solution, you got it, kind of thing, which I think is good.
94 00:18:54.410 ⇒ 00:18:57.649 Samuel Roberts: But I haven’t thought too much about that yet, I will say.
95 00:18:58.130 ⇒ 00:19:03.039 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think overall, I’m also interested… I’m just interested in actual people’s, like, how they develop.
96 00:19:03.560 ⇒ 00:19:04.639 Uttam Kumaran: I coded.
97 00:19:04.920 ⇒ 00:19:05.899 Uttam Kumaran: I’m interested.
98 00:19:05.900 ⇒ 00:19:06.360 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
99 00:19:06.360 ⇒ 00:19:07.399 Uttam Kumaran: People that are, like.
100 00:19:07.780 ⇒ 00:19:13.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I used… I used, like, cloud code, and then I did this, like, that’s what I’m interested in.
101 00:19:13.460 ⇒ 00:19:22.440 Samuel Roberts: That is something I tried to pull out of a few of them, and I didn’t… I got, like, okay answers. I think that was actually one of the answers I didn’t love from Mohamed. He was like, oh, no, no, no, no, I don’t. And I was like, I don’t…
102 00:19:23.120 ⇒ 00:19:30.740 Samuel Roberts: I don’t know, like, if you’re not doing it that way, like, you’re writing all this by… you’re just brainstorming with the AI, it didn’t make sense to me a little bit, and I think that was one of the things.
103 00:19:30.740 ⇒ 00:19:31.180 Kaela Gallagher: I was just like.
104 00:19:31.180 ⇒ 00:19:31.880 Samuel Roberts: a little…
105 00:19:32.400 ⇒ 00:19:36.649 Samuel Roberts: Like, are you trying to be like, no, no, no, I did it, when, like, at this point.
106 00:19:36.900 ⇒ 00:19:41.970 Samuel Roberts: like, if you’re writing code by hand, you’re doing it wrong, I feel like, in some way, you know?
107 00:19:42.490 ⇒ 00:19:44.760 Samuel Roberts: I don’t know, it’s a weird influx, like…
108 00:19:45.280 ⇒ 00:19:49.249 Samuel Roberts: time for coding in general, so it’s a weird process, but…
109 00:19:49.610 ⇒ 00:19:55.270 Samuel Roberts: I think if we could figure out another way to maybe pull that apart a little bit more from that challenge would be good, too.
110 00:19:57.310 ⇒ 00:20:01.020 Samuel Roberts: Because, yeah, the few times I got to ask the question, I got, like, some okay answers, but…
111 00:20:02.160 ⇒ 00:20:05.880 Samuel Roberts: I wanted more of that than just the, like, here’s the solution. Yeah.
112 00:20:06.220 ⇒ 00:20:06.740 Samuel Roberts: Good plan.
113 00:20:06.740 ⇒ 00:20:09.260 Kaela Gallagher: From… Hold on.
114 00:20:09.260 ⇒ 00:20:09.930 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
115 00:20:10.600 ⇒ 00:20:26.369 Kaela Gallagher: Well, I guess we can jump into our Q2 kickoff. I guess, Sam, first off, like, I know we sent over kind of an agenda and outline, like, curious if you had any questions on it or comments off the bat.
116 00:20:26.530 ⇒ 00:20:34.530 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, hold on one sec, I have so many things open now from the last meeting and previously, let me just find where I had that.
117 00:20:37.490 ⇒ 00:20:39.180 Kaela Gallagher: Tom, are you out of La La Land?
118 00:20:40.170 ⇒ 00:20:42.460 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m at, I’m at, Phil’s.
119 00:20:42.460 ⇒ 00:20:45.829 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, I saw the yellow, I was like, what is that?
120 00:20:45.830 ⇒ 00:20:47.220 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, that fails.
121 00:20:47.650 ⇒ 00:20:48.420 Kaela Gallagher: Nice.
122 00:20:48.420 ⇒ 00:20:49.650 Samuel Roberts: Where are you right now?
123 00:20:49.650 ⇒ 00:20:51.769 Uttam Kumaran: In the East Bay, in California.
124 00:20:51.770 ⇒ 00:20:53.160 Samuel Roberts: Okay, okay, okay.
125 00:20:53.430 ⇒ 00:20:57.149 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is, like… this is, like, the only thing,
126 00:20:57.730 ⇒ 00:21:01.950 Uttam Kumaran: like, in my… in the suburbs, like, where I grew up, there’s, like, the one that’ll, like.
127 00:21:02.520 ⇒ 00:21:05.169 Uttam Kumaran: Little shopping mall area to come sit.
128 00:21:05.610 ⇒ 00:21:06.390 Kaela Gallagher: Aww.
129 00:21:07.090 ⇒ 00:21:07.680 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.
130 00:21:08.010 ⇒ 00:21:08.680 Samuel Roberts: Nice.
131 00:21:09.030 ⇒ 00:21:16.149 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, let me… Pull up my… Sorry, so many things here.
132 00:21:21.660 ⇒ 00:21:27.099 Samuel Roberts: Looking at hers… I know I had something here, but yeah,
133 00:21:27.410 ⇒ 00:21:29.950 Samuel Roberts: That’s the question. That’s not the question, that’s the old question.
134 00:21:32.290 ⇒ 00:21:32.970 Uttam Kumaran: That’s it.
135 00:21:33.300 ⇒ 00:21:38.850 Samuel Roberts: And I have, like, little things here and there, I don’t think there’s anything, like, to kick off that I’m like, oh, definitely, let’s…
136 00:21:40.420 ⇒ 00:21:41.910 Samuel Roberts: go this way.
137 00:21:43.210 ⇒ 00:21:58.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think from… from my side, I’ll just set the stage, like, I think we talked a little bit yesterday, we just kind of met with Awash as well today. I mean, like, probably the biggest… there’s kind of, like, two, probably, pieces of feedback that I’m, like, kind of giving universally is, one, like.
138 00:21:58.900 ⇒ 00:22:04.119 Uttam Kumaran: I think more than ever, I’m making, like, these teams like yours.
139 00:22:04.240 ⇒ 00:22:07.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And… I think, like.
140 00:22:07.730 ⇒ 00:22:13.369 Uttam Kumaran: I… I feel like I… in every… all of our service leads, I feel, like, really, really…
141 00:22:13.470 ⇒ 00:22:16.349 Uttam Kumaran: confident in that. I think we’re all really opinionated.
142 00:22:16.480 ⇒ 00:22:27.910 Uttam Kumaran: But I think the one piece of feedback that I’m sharing with everybody is that this group needs to be much louder, in es- in, like, escalating faster and being, like.
143 00:22:27.990 ⇒ 00:22:38.289 Uttam Kumaran: hey, a scenario has come up, I don’t know what to do, let’s all discuss. I… what I was sharing with Awash is… this is sort of me as well, like, we’re all engineers, and
144 00:22:38.540 ⇒ 00:22:47.610 Uttam Kumaran: We’re like, hey, okay, I’ll go solve this, or, like, I don’t want to, like, raise an alarm, versus now that sort of the standards are set, I think, really, the goal is, like.
145 00:22:47.740 ⇒ 00:22:59.479 Uttam Kumaran: if you have a feeling that something is out of line, it’s like, escalate faster and identify that. And one thing that I want to see out of this team is just, like, a lot more, like, collaboration between, like.
146 00:22:59.720 ⇒ 00:23:01.330 Uttam Kumaran: to service leads?
147 00:23:01.430 ⇒ 00:23:12.109 Uttam Kumaran: And then a lot more collaboration with the CSOs, and then a lot more of, like, coming to me with, like, there’s a scenario, like, how should we proceed, or what tools that I have?
148 00:23:12.110 ⇒ 00:23:13.320 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, you know.
149 00:23:13.550 ⇒ 00:23:13.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
150 00:23:14.280 ⇒ 00:23:16.979 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think… I think that’s something that’s getting…
151 00:23:17.900 ⇒ 00:23:21.389 Samuel Roberts: I’m feeling a little more comfortable, even just this week from last week. Yeah.
152 00:23:22.040 ⇒ 00:23:29.450 Samuel Roberts: Especially with the way she’s not going back and forth from the ABC and the Eden stuff, like, I could see, oh, this, this, this works when we’re…
153 00:23:29.810 ⇒ 00:23:34.469 Samuel Roberts: Yes. Back and forth, and I felt, like, a little bit like I was being…
154 00:23:35.280 ⇒ 00:23:54.339 Samuel Roberts: not, like, nitpicky about a few little things, but it was very much like, okay, no, no, no, no, no, I need to know, like, this, like, because it’s going to affect how this ticket gets defined, which is then going to affect all these other, like, it’s just, like, you know, pushing a little bit there. But I thought we… that worked out relatively well. He’s been executing on tickets. That’s… that’s one of the things I wanted to talk about.
155 00:23:54.450 ⇒ 00:24:04.279 Samuel Roberts: CSOs as ICs, somewhat. Like, Pranav is kind of my example here, where he’s executing the AI, like, he’s…
156 00:24:05.110 ⇒ 00:24:08.930 Samuel Roberts: just balancing that, because I know… before, it was CSS.
157 00:24:08.930 ⇒ 00:24:09.400 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
158 00:24:09.400 ⇒ 00:24:14.389 Samuel Roberts: SLs, it was, you know, you’re taking on this responsibility, but it’s…
159 00:24:14.390 ⇒ 00:24:18.229 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so, like, maybe the point there, I’m gonna say, is that, like.
160 00:24:18.700 ⇒ 00:24:24.799 Uttam Kumaran: You’re in charge of tickets getting out when you kind of predicted?
161 00:24:25.000 ⇒ 00:24:28.299 Uttam Kumaran: They were in the time it would take, and then them being right.
162 00:24:28.460 ⇒ 00:24:43.340 Uttam Kumaran: I guess I care very little on if that is you, if that is someone on your team, or if that’s an AI agent. Don’t care. Meaning… I don’t care meaning, like, I would wanna… I wanna push… like, I’m not gonna be super opinionated. And I guess the.
163 00:24:43.340 ⇒ 00:24:43.810 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
164 00:24:43.810 ⇒ 00:24:45.900 Uttam Kumaran: The point being there is, like, I think…
165 00:24:46.140 ⇒ 00:24:51.689 Uttam Kumaran: If Pranav is taking tickets, then those are still governed by your service, right?
166 00:24:51.690 ⇒ 00:24:52.010 Samuel Roberts: Totally.
167 00:24:52.010 ⇒ 00:24:54.499 Uttam Kumaran: And yes, I can tell how that, like.
168 00:24:54.680 ⇒ 00:25:12.379 Uttam Kumaran: But either way, I think it’s, like, the directives are clear in that, like, what I’m looking for out of the service leads is that we minimize defects, and we are able to accomplish units of work in the times we basically predict that they’ll take. Yeah.
169 00:25:13.150 ⇒ 00:25:26.250 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s kind of… that’s, like, where I’m gonna stop. And then where I want to start again is, like, okay, I have a scenario where, like, this is happening, what should we do? Okay, I’ll give you some tools or ways to, like, kind of solve it, but you’re gonna find that
170 00:25:26.450 ⇒ 00:25:40.240 Uttam Kumaran: quite a lot of it is, like, one is expectation setting. Second is actually just, like, on a daily and weekly basis, how are you, like, looking at all the tickets across your service? How are you proactively being, like, these are clearly off?
171 00:25:40.420 ⇒ 00:25:46.670 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, I gotta flag that to somebody, right? So how do you move from reactive
172 00:25:46.890 ⇒ 00:25:53.910 Uttam Kumaran: to proactive is the first switch to make here, which is, like… like, after today, all of the tickets
173 00:25:54.360 ⇒ 00:26:01.859 Uttam Kumaran: are gonna be labeled with the appropriate service. You should be able to go in linear and see all the tickets in your service line.
174 00:26:02.020 ⇒ 00:26:12.389 Uttam Kumaran: And on a monthly basis, what I want to do is look at all the tickets that kind of came out of your service line. I want to understand, okay, like, what things, like, sort of had defects, or what things…
175 00:26:12.430 ⇒ 00:26:14.590 Uttam Kumaran: You know, where it got more complicated.
176 00:26:14.620 ⇒ 00:26:19.270 Uttam Kumaran: And then once you have that, like, once you’re able to just take on the day-to-day and the week-to-week.
177 00:26:19.290 ⇒ 00:26:38.480 Uttam Kumaran: the money in being an SL is really in playbook development and offer development. So it’s like… because I know your background, dude, is way beyond the stuff we’re doing here, and then also, in some ways, I think we’re doing stuff that’s here that’s, like, very new to both of us. So I want… I want you to be able to say, hey, like.
178 00:26:38.730 ⇒ 00:26:47.210 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve done this in my career, where, like, I know we can do this capability, we should add this. Like, for example, Oasis done a bunch of ML stuff. Like, we don’t do ML because I don’t do.
179 00:26:47.210 ⇒ 00:26:47.600 Samuel Roberts: I know.
180 00:26:47.690 ⇒ 00:26:48.460 Uttam Kumaran: And I told him.
181 00:26:48.460 ⇒ 00:26:49.140 Samuel Roberts: Right?
182 00:26:49.140 ⇒ 00:27:02.770 Uttam Kumaran: you should pitch that as a service, and if you could tell sales how to sell that, they’ll sell that, right? So there’s new service development. And there’s also playbook development, right? So if you’re like, hey, anytime we do a GCP-style agent, it’s always gonna be, like.
183 00:27:03.040 ⇒ 00:27:19.460 Uttam Kumaran: these are the different playbooks to run, and you can start standardizing those. That’s… and those get… those get used, and then that’s also a huge win. And so, I think the first thing to think about, like, this week and next week is, like, how do you get your arms around everything that’s coming out of your service?
184 00:27:19.570 ⇒ 00:27:25.149 Uttam Kumaran: How do you get our arms around, like, the next thing that’s gonna basically fall through the cracks?
185 00:27:25.500 ⇒ 00:27:26.030 Samuel Roberts: Right.
186 00:27:26.030 ⇒ 00:27:27.470 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, how do you see that?
187 00:27:28.050 ⇒ 00:27:34.439 Uttam Kumaran: once you’re there, and that becomes a habit, then it’s sort of on, like, okay, how can I start looking into
188 00:27:34.670 ⇒ 00:27:36.670 Uttam Kumaran: Developing playbooks?
189 00:27:36.980 ⇒ 00:27:42.609 Uttam Kumaran: And then, also, it’s like, hey, why don’t we work on, like, N8 into Master as an offer?
190 00:27:42.720 ⇒ 00:27:46.719 Uttam Kumaran: For all the people that are, like, still… like, and that’s something that you can go to sales and be like.
191 00:27:47.170 ⇒ 00:27:52.319 Uttam Kumaran: I think we just did this for ourselves, there’s gonna be a lot of people hitting the same roadblocks. I think I can articulate it.
192 00:27:52.640 ⇒ 00:27:55.340 Uttam Kumaran: Can we put an offer together, and here’s the play.
193 00:27:55.520 ⇒ 00:27:59.060 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s how I kind of want the service lead to progress.
194 00:27:59.300 ⇒ 00:28:11.079 Uttam Kumaran: And I… I think we’re more than capable, but again, I think the one feedback I have from everybody on the SL side is, like, just need to voice more, and, like, I need to see you guys be…
195 00:28:11.490 ⇒ 00:28:14.360 Uttam Kumaran: Just as, like, Ike.
196 00:28:14.720 ⇒ 00:28:24.439 Uttam Kumaran: just as vocal in whatever way possible as the CSOs are. Because the CSO’s job is going to be just to shield, like, us from, like, the clients, right?
197 00:28:24.540 ⇒ 00:28:36.330 Uttam Kumaran: But also, in doing that, like, they need to be able to pick from all these services and be able to be confident that they’re gonna… that the services they’re delivering are working, and then that’s our job, you know, on our side.
198 00:28:39.180 ⇒ 00:28:39.780 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
199 00:28:43.500 ⇒ 00:28:50.379 Kaela Gallagher: Sam, any, like, concerns on your end, or anything you see coming up?
200 00:28:51.540 ⇒ 00:28:52.310 Samuel Roberts: coming up.
201 00:28:58.080 ⇒ 00:29:07.970 Samuel Roberts: I think, I mean, one of the questions I had that was, like, specific, I guess, is… I mean, and I… in my mind, I’m thinking of this as a process that we’re setting up, and so I’m not necessarily, like…
202 00:29:08.170 ⇒ 00:29:13.309 Samuel Roberts: concerned about… Every little thing here, but talking about,
203 00:29:13.570 ⇒ 00:29:22.139 Samuel Roberts: the KPIs that were listed. Sure. I think… I’m trying to pull them up now, but of course I have so many other things, spread around here, but…
204 00:29:22.420 ⇒ 00:29:28.400 Samuel Roberts: You were talking about yesterday on the SL meeting that it was, like, less prescriptive about how to run
205 00:29:28.820 ⇒ 00:29:29.790 Samuel Roberts: Kind of the team.
206 00:29:29.790 ⇒ 00:29:30.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
207 00:29:30.320 ⇒ 00:29:37.629 Samuel Roberts: CSO and the SO. So I think the… in my mind, like, the KPIs around, like, tickets and what’s… what’s a bug and what gets tracked.
208 00:29:38.000 ⇒ 00:29:42.180 Samuel Roberts: It’s kind of dependent on, like, how well we’re tracking things overall anyway.
209 00:29:44.010 ⇒ 00:29:44.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
210 00:29:44.600 ⇒ 00:29:51.110 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, more of a flag than anything, I think, really. You know, it’s just like a… if we’re doing things differently across teams, like, it might be different, different places.
211 00:29:51.110 ⇒ 00:29:56.949 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fair. And then another… I think it… I think if… if we feel like, okay, Bog is, like.
212 00:29:57.170 ⇒ 00:30:04.170 Uttam Kumaran: less relevant, then I think I have, like, two options. One is, like, if… and let’s just say we’re meeting on a monthly basis to sort of check.
213 00:30:04.460 ⇒ 00:30:06.500 Uttam Kumaran: I could either say, cool, here are, like.
214 00:30:06.680 ⇒ 00:30:13.459 Uttam Kumaran: here are the escalations that I was aware of that were revolving around, like, service defects.
215 00:30:13.670 ⇒ 00:30:14.529 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.
216 00:30:14.530 ⇒ 00:30:16.410 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And I can just talk through that.
217 00:30:16.540 ⇒ 00:30:29.749 Uttam Kumaran: I would hope… I also want to make sure that, like, you guys also have logs of that, but really, again, like, those… that’s, like, I want to kind of separate, like, what the floor is versus, like, what, like, XL is, you know? Like, I think the floor is really, like.
218 00:30:29.890 ⇒ 00:30:38.830 Uttam Kumaran: okay, there’s minimal defects, things are getting out on time. Right. Like, when we can control it, right? And there’s some bandwidth there. Excellent looks like, hey.
219 00:30:39.400 ⇒ 00:30:44.260 Uttam Kumaran: Like, these teams are now using my playbooks, and they’re running the 50% faster.
220 00:30:44.390 ⇒ 00:30:52.920 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And so for me, I want to make sure you guys hit the floor, but I’m gonna bonus on hitting excellent, which is, like.
221 00:30:53.010 ⇒ 00:31:12.099 Uttam Kumaran: hey, like, Pranav and Greg are now using my, like, some playbook, and they both are gonna be like, it was perfect, like, we were able to run an end-to-end, no problem. Similarly, if Robert’s able to sell a new offer, like, let’s say you generate the N8N offer, and he’s able to sell that, like.
222 00:31:12.370 ⇒ 00:31:15.620 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Like, let’s run with that, you know?
223 00:31:16.050 ⇒ 00:31:28.310 Samuel Roberts: Sure. Yeah. No, that I see. And that’s what I was kind of getting at, like, it’s not like I have a ton of major concerns that way. Yeah. I think some of the stuff about, like, defining the subservices and things is…
224 00:31:28.910 ⇒ 00:31:32.669 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think we’re gonna iron it out as, like, the five of us meet more.
225 00:31:33.440 ⇒ 00:31:42.379 Uttam Kumaran: ironing out the offers, so that’s why I’ll work with you on every single piece, but I’m just… I’m not going to do it alone. I think that’s my main change, and I’m keeping.
226 00:31:42.380 ⇒ 00:31:43.030 Samuel Roberts: Totally.
227 00:31:43.230 ⇒ 00:31:49.279 Uttam Kumaran: feedback for myself is that I want to work with you on your service. And again, I was telling Oasis, like.
228 00:31:49.470 ⇒ 00:31:52.210 Uttam Kumaran: Think about what breaks if the AI team doubles.
229 00:31:52.680 ⇒ 00:31:53.520 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
230 00:31:53.690 ⇒ 00:32:00.039 Uttam Kumaran: Like, picture a world in where we’re offering the same services, yet now 10 clients are using
231 00:32:00.380 ⇒ 00:32:03.009 Uttam Kumaran: AI, like, and there’s 10 people on our team.
232 00:32:03.530 ⇒ 00:32:11.939 Uttam Kumaran: Like, this… when this… how does this system not support that? Like, my job in this is I’m not trying to build a system when we get there.
233 00:32:12.510 ⇒ 00:32:13.070 Samuel Roberts: Right, right, right.
234 00:32:13.070 ⇒ 00:32:19.360 Uttam Kumaran: even when the teams are small and cute, I want us to be like, cool, we’re thinking of these, like, services that are getting purchased by multiple.
235 00:32:19.360 ⇒ 00:32:19.860 Samuel Roberts: Yeah…
236 00:32:19.860 ⇒ 00:32:20.870 Uttam Kumaran: Customers?
237 00:32:20.990 ⇒ 00:32:26.709 Uttam Kumaran: Because it will look like that, and you will… each SL will look like a mix of…
238 00:32:27.600 ⇒ 00:32:31.449 Uttam Kumaran: like, a mix of, like, CTO, a mix of…
239 00:32:31.920 ⇒ 00:32:35.789 Uttam Kumaran: Tech lead and a mix of, like, engineering manager, architect.
240 00:32:35.940 ⇒ 00:32:40.299 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So it’s like, okay, am I, like, thinking about my service structure?
241 00:32:40.430 ⇒ 00:32:43.690 Uttam Kumaran: am I also managing my team, and then am I also, like.
242 00:32:43.950 ⇒ 00:32:46.980 Uttam Kumaran: Thinking about, like, what new services to add.
243 00:32:47.140 ⇒ 00:32:50.169 Uttam Kumaran: Right, and I’m working with the head of delivery and me, and like.
244 00:32:50.490 ⇒ 00:32:53.299 Uttam Kumaran: What services should we add? What’s coming on the forefront?
245 00:32:53.650 ⇒ 00:32:57.040 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s all the responsibility I want to hand to you guys.
246 00:32:57.190 ⇒ 00:33:01.410 Uttam Kumaran: And then I kind of, like, services, I’m not gonna be too prescriptive right now on, like.
247 00:33:01.550 ⇒ 00:33:12.879 Uttam Kumaran: who owns subs… like, subservices, or the team. We’ll see. When that happens and things get big, we’ll sort of decide, but for me, I just want to make sure, like, what clients are getting is
248 00:33:13.180 ⇒ 00:33:14.780 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… it’s not…
249 00:33:14.990 ⇒ 00:33:21.550 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll… I kind of said another way, I want to make sure that if things aren’t off track, it’s not our fault, and that if.
250 00:33:22.260 ⇒ 00:33:27.950 Uttam Kumaran: The things that we do deliver are… You know, 95th percentile working.
251 00:33:28.070 ⇒ 00:33:36.139 Uttam Kumaran: And so, however we can achieve that consistently is going to free you up to start thinking about playbooks and offers and new services, right?
252 00:33:36.250 ⇒ 00:33:44.550 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m… and we’re recruiting aggressively to… to move you and your time into that direction.
253 00:33:46.040 ⇒ 00:33:49.950 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, and then that’s really, again, the feedback that I’m getting to every SL is, like.
254 00:33:50.120 ⇒ 00:33:52.910 Uttam Kumaran: have an eye bar for recruiting, like, these are the folks that
255 00:33:53.570 ⇒ 00:34:01.529 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna… if something… if it’s like… it’s kind of, like, shitty work goes out, you’re not gonna be able to blame your team, because I’m gonna be like, I…
256 00:34:01.800 ⇒ 00:34:08.699 Uttam Kumaran: this is your team, like, right? And that’s the responsibility as, like, now we’re building teams of teams.
257 00:34:08.989 ⇒ 00:34:12.380 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s why I think it’s totally fair for people to be like.
258 00:34:12.800 ⇒ 00:34:23.489 Uttam Kumaran: hey, like, I don’t feel like this person was gonna come in and crush it, or allow me to hit my goals. But at the same time, like, let’s say Robert sells 5 AI deals.
259 00:34:24.230 ⇒ 00:34:28.840 Uttam Kumaran: we kind of need playbooks if we’re gonna do the same amount of people, right? So…
260 00:34:29.030 ⇒ 00:34:36.030 Uttam Kumaran: This is where I think, as a service lead group, we’re gonna… we’ll meet more often, and sort of, like, riff on, like, these different scenarios.
261 00:34:36.449 ⇒ 00:34:39.519 Uttam Kumaran: another question away, Shad, was like, okay, like.
262 00:34:40.010 ⇒ 00:34:45.680 Uttam Kumaran: how should I be meeting with… if the CSOs are gonna make the tickets, am I gonna make the tickets? I said, again.
263 00:34:46.310 ⇒ 00:34:57.799 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like… I… I think what’s gonna happen is it’s gonna be a mix of CSOs making tickets, ICs may make tickets, you may make tickets, but either way, if they’re in your service, it’s under you.
264 00:34:58.090 ⇒ 00:35:02.660 Uttam Kumaran: And so, whether you’re like, well, me and the CSO should meet every week.
265 00:35:02.970 ⇒ 00:35:07.169 Uttam Kumaran: Or me and my IC, my IC team, we should meet every day.
266 00:35:07.290 ⇒ 00:35:10.810 Uttam Kumaran: So, and it’s kind of like the past, kind of how we were doing it? It’s up to you.
267 00:35:10.810 ⇒ 00:35:11.959 Samuel Roberts: Right. Yeah, yeah.
268 00:35:11.960 ⇒ 00:35:13.189 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll leave it totally up to you.
269 00:35:13.610 ⇒ 00:35:21.670 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I think… I think we’re finding that a little bit, like, Pranava this past week, got all those tickets in, and he was executing on them, and they were… seemed to be going along, so…
270 00:35:23.730 ⇒ 00:35:28.270 Samuel Roberts: I think, and then once… yeah, I see what you’re saying, and I’m feeling that a little bit, and I can…
271 00:35:28.700 ⇒ 00:35:31.820 Samuel Roberts: See where it can go, and if we need to be a little more…
272 00:35:32.270 ⇒ 00:35:38.510 Samuel Roberts: structured or something, we can do that, but I’m feeling okay with it right now as it’s going for Eden ABC.
273 00:35:38.790 ⇒ 00:35:46.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I want you to just be able to have space to think really deeply about, like, these are the things, these are the AI services that we offer.
274 00:35:47.240 ⇒ 00:35:52.530 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m confident that, like, if we were to get asked today to develop X service.
275 00:35:52.690 ⇒ 00:35:56.420 Uttam Kumaran: to develop X product that uses my service, like, we can get it done.
276 00:35:56.590 ⇒ 00:35:57.649 Uttam Kumaran: And, like…
277 00:35:58.180 ⇒ 00:36:03.519 Uttam Kumaran: And then my job is to make sure that you have a team to do so, and that you have clients that are purchasing, you know?
278 00:36:04.450 ⇒ 00:36:05.150 Samuel Roberts: Right.
279 00:36:05.790 ⇒ 00:36:08.970 Samuel Roberts: So then… Where are you seeing…
280 00:36:09.220 ⇒ 00:36:16.110 Samuel Roberts: I guess that progression of, like, my, you know, overall time going to…
281 00:36:18.160 ⇒ 00:36:19.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
282 00:36:19.140 ⇒ 00:36:30.419 Samuel Roberts: now versus… and, like, I guess, and then… and when it comes down to, like, the mechanics of it, in terms of, like, logging hours or sort of stuff, like, where does that, like, how do we… how are we thinking about that kind of stuff?
283 00:36:30.420 ⇒ 00:36:36.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so maybe let’s… let’s think about, a few things. So one is, like, in terms of broader company.
284 00:36:37.010 ⇒ 00:36:40.850 Uttam Kumaran: This year, we are focusing on bringing on
285 00:36:41.050 ⇒ 00:36:45.230 Uttam Kumaran: as many people, especially in leadership, up to, like, W2.
286 00:36:46.220 ⇒ 00:36:46.760 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
287 00:36:46.760 ⇒ 00:36:51.340 Uttam Kumaran: Pretty clear path towards doing that sometime in the next 2 or 3 quarters.
288 00:36:51.440 ⇒ 00:37:09.779 Uttam Kumaran: And then really, like, the leaders, your time should honestly move from… like, some people, like, for example, Demi is a one-man service, right? Right. So he… so my job is just to give him some breathing room, versus on your side, I think, you know, we’re still doing a lot, and your service is pretty broad, like, it’s almost like
289 00:37:09.890 ⇒ 00:37:12.899 Uttam Kumaran: full stack plus AI. Yeah.
290 00:37:13.270 ⇒ 00:37:22.330 Uttam Kumaran: But you have, like, you know, 2-3 people, and there’s a lot of tooling, and there’s a lot of AI, so… Yeah. I kind of think it should be, like.
291 00:37:22.370 ⇒ 00:37:36.179 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think any of the service leads for the near future are gonna not be working on client work. Sure. But I do think it’s gonna hopefully shift towards, like, 80-20. More like 80 is, like.
292 00:37:36.350 ⇒ 00:37:38.489 Uttam Kumaran: new service development playbook.
293 00:37:38.490 ⇒ 00:37:39.219 Samuel Roberts: That’s cool.
294 00:37:39.220 ⇒ 00:37:41.450 Uttam Kumaran: Developing the players on your team.
295 00:37:41.570 ⇒ 00:37:52.610 Uttam Kumaran: developing new services, working with me on, like, escalations. Yeah. And I think the 20% ideally, should just be, like, handling escalations, kind of maybe sealing where you need to be.
296 00:37:52.720 ⇒ 00:37:54.659 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s how I wanted to shift.
297 00:37:54.760 ⇒ 00:37:57.170 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how I wanted to show, yeah. Yeah.
298 00:37:57.440 ⇒ 00:38:02.959 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, our conversations when we meet on, like, weekly and monthly should be about, like.
299 00:38:03.200 ⇒ 00:38:08.319 Uttam Kumaran: hey, I need, like… we have this coming down the pipe, I think I’m gonna need two more people, or…
300 00:38:08.670 ⇒ 00:38:11.009 Uttam Kumaran: like, I’m struggling with this CSO, like.
301 00:38:11.490 ⇒ 00:38:29.569 Uttam Kumaran: Derek can’t articulate my service, or like, hey, we, like, I’m struggling, like, on how to build this playbook out. Like, that’s what I want to talk more about. And I want us… I want, between the CSOs and the SLs for, like, the day-to-day pieces of moving a project along to start to get figured out.
302 00:38:29.770 ⇒ 00:38:33.159 Uttam Kumaran: So that I can start to have those higher-level conversations.
303 00:38:35.500 ⇒ 00:38:37.340 Samuel Roberts: But then with that, where does…
304 00:38:37.900 ⇒ 00:38:50.810 Samuel Roberts: the last meeting fit in? Where does, like, internal kind of fit in? Because, like, previously, we were thinking, like, okay, let’s think of it as a client, but now obviously, like, with Cursor, you know, you’ve been able to ship so much, well, you know, so I’m like, I’m just not sure…
305 00:38:51.000 ⇒ 00:38:51.640 Samuel Roberts: Sure.
306 00:38:51.640 ⇒ 00:38:54.200 Uttam Kumaran: So the, so the, so the platform team…
307 00:38:56.610 ⇒ 00:38:58.340 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a good question, I mean…
308 00:38:59.840 ⇒ 00:39:16.269 Uttam Kumaran: the service leads, in an effort for you to make sure that your work is getting done on time, automation and using AI and creating scaffolding for that is, like, a clear opportunity to do that, right? Like, if everybody’s using the skills you develop to do their work, then…
309 00:39:16.550 ⇒ 00:39:25.649 Uttam Kumaran: you can kind of, like, make sure that things are going through the way you want. The platform team, I would say, supports you in a couple ways. One is.
310 00:39:25.960 ⇒ 00:39:29.310 Uttam Kumaran: These are gonna be net new services that we sell.
311 00:39:29.570 ⇒ 00:39:30.350 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
312 00:39:30.510 ⇒ 00:39:48.540 Uttam Kumaran: Second, it should directly help affect everybody on delivery and across the company. I think you’re in a unique position right now where the platform team is basically just, like, me and, like, it’s just a bunch of part-time time, so I think it’s kind of, like, maybe a question for you, like.
313 00:39:49.400 ⇒ 00:39:52.220 Uttam Kumaran: in one way, like, I think the platform team
314 00:39:52.630 ⇒ 00:39:57.479 Uttam Kumaran: Is, like, both, like, kind of, like, frontier technology, but also is, like, an internal support.
315 00:39:58.990 ⇒ 00:40:07.399 Uttam Kumaran: and is always gonna kind of be secondary towards, like, delivering for clients. I could see a world in where, like, you continue to run the AI service.
316 00:40:07.540 ⇒ 00:40:16.069 Uttam Kumaran: the platform team, like, maybe leverages some AI services, but also does, like, data work, does IT work.
317 00:40:16.470 ⇒ 00:40:23.290 Uttam Kumaran: And then… Is also maybe, like, in the business of developing new services, and maybe it’s a standalone team.
318 00:40:23.940 ⇒ 00:40:27.610 Uttam Kumaran: Right, and so someone comes in and leads platform.
319 00:40:28.100 ⇒ 00:40:35.750 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not… or maybe it is sort of like a mix of, like, people’s part-time from… from everywhere kind of do a stint. I’m not 100% sure yet.
320 00:40:36.740 ⇒ 00:40:42.829 Uttam Kumaran: So, in this, kind of for the next quarter, I’m expecting that we’re probably gonna need, like.
321 00:40:43.440 ⇒ 00:40:46.930 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe, like, 5… To 10 hours a week.
322 00:40:47.110 ⇒ 00:40:55.179 Uttam Kumaran: on platform help, maybe? Hopefully that’s, like, closer to 5, which is, like, the most crucial pieces, especially with Miranda joining.
323 00:40:56.750 ⇒ 00:41:01.739 Uttam Kumaran: And then that goal is that, like, all those pieces can get leveraged by every team, you know, to do engineering work.
324 00:41:01.970 ⇒ 00:41:08.139 Uttam Kumaran: But we’re also gonna, again, we’re gonna continue to hire for the AI team, and…
325 00:41:08.620 ⇒ 00:41:12.059 Uttam Kumaran: The platform team’s a tough team, because it’s kind of like a meta team, so…
326 00:41:12.060 ⇒ 00:41:12.550 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
327 00:41:12.550 ⇒ 00:41:21.449 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not yet sure, like… we haven’t really, like, allocated budget for this, that’s why it’s sort of, like, I’m kind of developing it, and we haven’t really.
328 00:41:21.450 ⇒ 00:41:22.040 Samuel Roberts: Yes.
329 00:41:22.040 ⇒ 00:41:27.920 Uttam Kumaran: spent much time thinking about, like, okay, is there a team in charge of, like, new service development, for example? But.
330 00:41:27.920 ⇒ 00:41:28.639 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
331 00:41:28.640 ⇒ 00:41:32.639 Uttam Kumaran: I’m kind of hopefully seeing that it’s just, like, maybe 5 or 10 hours of your time.
332 00:41:32.640 ⇒ 00:41:33.270 Samuel Roberts: Cool.
333 00:41:34.360 ⇒ 00:41:44.180 Uttam Kumaran: a week just on, like, crucial items or brainstorming, but I want more… most of your focus to go to, like, developing the AI automation service, you know, overall.
334 00:41:44.180 ⇒ 00:41:44.750 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
335 00:41:45.650 ⇒ 00:41:46.430 Samuel Roberts: Alright.
336 00:41:46.770 ⇒ 00:41:51.610 Samuel Roberts: I think that makes sense for now. I can see how that makes, yeah, 5 to 10.
337 00:41:51.850 ⇒ 00:41:52.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
338 00:41:52.930 ⇒ 00:41:58.600 Samuel Roberts: Okay. I’m trying to think what other… Things weren’t clear…
339 00:41:59.340 ⇒ 00:42:01.099 Samuel Roberts: I mean, overall, I’m, you know.
340 00:42:02.990 ⇒ 00:42:14.660 Samuel Roberts: feeling pretty good about everything we’ve talked about, like, you know, the meeting cadence and all that stuff, like, and I think working with the CSOs, like, so far it’s just been Pranav on two projects, but I’m sure that’ll, you know, if that opens up, like, I’m not too.
341 00:42:14.660 ⇒ 00:42:19.889 Uttam Kumaran: But another thing is, like, I think that’s a great… one thing I can talk to the service leads about is, like.
342 00:42:20.520 ⇒ 00:42:25.160 Uttam Kumaran: for example, I think Greg could probably go sell some AI services to some of his clients, right?
343 00:42:25.160 ⇒ 00:42:25.840 Samuel Roberts: Right, right, that’s right.
344 00:42:25.840 ⇒ 00:42:33.230 Uttam Kumaran: how are we arming them? And so, we’re gonna have some more people start as CSOs here in the next few, like, few weeks, and so…
345 00:42:33.230 ⇒ 00:42:33.780 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
346 00:42:33.780 ⇒ 00:42:41.060 Uttam Kumaran: I’m hopeful that the matrix and the… of responsibilities, where, like, CSO’s very focused on the client versus we’re focused on, like.
347 00:42:41.230 ⇒ 00:42:43.500 Uttam Kumaran: broader horizontal services.
348 00:42:43.920 ⇒ 00:42:51.960 Uttam Kumaran: Is gonna… is gonna be really helpful, and really, the thing is just that you just have to have tons more communication between
349 00:42:52.650 ⇒ 00:42:56.120 Uttam Kumaran: The client owner and, like, the service owner.
350 00:42:58.470 ⇒ 00:42:59.080 Samuel Roberts: Right.
351 00:43:01.230 ⇒ 00:43:05.499 Samuel Roberts: The people management side of it.
352 00:43:06.450 ⇒ 00:43:13.539 Samuel Roberts: So obviously, like, we’re hiring and all that, so I have that, and then we, you, you know, I talked a little bit about, or you mentioned, like, the…
353 00:43:13.730 ⇒ 00:43:19.270 Samuel Roberts: reviews I did at one point with Casey Mustafa, and trying to get some of that going a little.
354 00:43:19.270 ⇒ 00:43:19.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
355 00:43:19.960 ⇒ 00:43:22.710 Samuel Roberts: Months ago now, but how are we…
356 00:43:23.040 ⇒ 00:43:26.460 Samuel Roberts: I mean, structurally around that, like, is it… is it…
357 00:43:26.910 ⇒ 00:43:29.920 Samuel Roberts: Should I be… Yeah, I just felt like…
358 00:43:30.040 ⇒ 00:43:36.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I just felt like, for now, I feel… I feel okay…
359 00:43:36.350 ⇒ 00:43:41.780 Uttam Kumaran: if me and Kayla kind of handle a lot of that. Okay. It’s still a small team, and…
360 00:43:41.910 ⇒ 00:43:46.670 Uttam Kumaran: what I don’t want is that you’re, like, back inundated with, like, one-on-ones and things like that.
361 00:43:46.670 ⇒ 00:43:47.450 Samuel Roberts: Okay, okay.
362 00:43:47.450 ⇒ 00:43:54.510 Uttam Kumaran: But… Ultimately, like, it’s your service team, and so… like…
363 00:43:55.270 ⇒ 00:44:00.600 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I don’t have a clear picture on, like, whether I feel comfortable landing this on all the SLs while a lot of.
364 00:44:00.600 ⇒ 00:44:01.040 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
365 00:44:01.040 ⇒ 00:44:02.150 Uttam Kumaran: still working.
366 00:44:02.470 ⇒ 00:44:07.769 Uttam Kumaran: You know, where there’s not, like, a lot of time to think about it. But maybe next quarter, if, like.
367 00:44:08.290 ⇒ 00:44:10.589 Uttam Kumaran: We do have a little bit more space.
368 00:44:11.080 ⇒ 00:44:12.979 Uttam Kumaran: I would… I would prefer that…
369 00:44:14.070 ⇒ 00:44:16.700 Uttam Kumaran: Like, each service line sort of, like.
370 00:44:16.830 ⇒ 00:44:28.430 Uttam Kumaran: has that feeling on everyone on their team, and then you’re partnering with Kayla more. Right, right. But we’re a small team now, and, like, I feel like I still have a relationship with almost everybody, and, like.
371 00:44:28.430 ⇒ 00:44:28.800 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
372 00:44:28.800 ⇒ 00:44:33.000 Uttam Kumaran: I think I’m gonna leave you guys in charge of, like, leveling
373 00:44:33.780 ⇒ 00:44:36.040 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. But yeah, I think this is gonna be another…
374 00:44:36.320 ⇒ 00:44:51.810 Uttam Kumaran: you know, sort of calibration quarter in terms of, okay, is everyone… is every service line that we really established? Are the CSOs feel like they’re able to run a client and pick from the services when they need to? And then have we… have we been able to appropriately staff?
375 00:44:52.140 ⇒ 00:44:54.350 Uttam Kumaran: On every project, so that, like.
376 00:44:54.520 ⇒ 00:45:04.790 Uttam Kumaran: we’re no longer, like… people are, like, have a comfortable amount on their plate, you know, and we’re able to hit outcomes. That’s the real core thing I really want to nail this quarter, is, like.
377 00:45:05.560 ⇒ 00:45:07.990 Uttam Kumaran: is sort of the first thing I mention, which is, like.
378 00:45:08.130 ⇒ 00:45:10.030 Uttam Kumaran: On a given week or the month.
379 00:45:10.160 ⇒ 00:45:21.120 Uttam Kumaran: the risks we can see coming from a little bit ahead, and when they do… when issues do come, there’s clear escalations. I want there to be, like, a lot less surprises and chaos.
380 00:45:21.270 ⇒ 00:45:25.249 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want there to be these, like, rungs of, like, you know, escalations, ideally.
381 00:45:25.250 ⇒ 00:45:25.770 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
382 00:45:26.170 ⇒ 00:45:26.840 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
383 00:45:31.040 ⇒ 00:45:32.289 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t like…
384 00:45:32.290 ⇒ 00:45:34.540 Samuel Roberts: Okay. Yeah, no, I feel pretty comfortable with all… all that.
385 00:45:34.540 ⇒ 00:45:34.890 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
386 00:45:34.890 ⇒ 00:45:39.180 Samuel Roberts: I think the other thing I mentioned yesterday was just, like, operating and allocating.
387 00:45:39.180 ⇒ 00:45:39.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
388 00:45:39.620 ⇒ 00:45:41.950 Samuel Roberts: and, like, stuff like that. I know you threw some skills in there.
389 00:45:41.950 ⇒ 00:45:52.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I think I’m gonna do… I think I’m gonna meet with… I’ll try to put time with all the service leads when Jazen gets here to walk you guys through operating.
390 00:45:52.500 ⇒ 00:45:57.650 Samuel Roberts: got in because I forgot how to log in with the actual, like, company name. I was trying all the different permutations of Brainforward.
391 00:45:59.130 ⇒ 00:46:05.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I think one thing this week that would be helpful is, like, if you want to go ahead and see if you can set up the, like, linear views.
392 00:46:05.880 ⇒ 00:46:14.649 Uttam Kumaran: For all of your service line tickets. And then I think, you know, by the end of the week, if you’re like, okay, I know how to get to, like.
393 00:46:14.860 ⇒ 00:46:19.739 Uttam Kumaran: I actually see… I have a path towards, like, seeing what tickets are off track.
394 00:46:19.980 ⇒ 00:46:25.020 Uttam Kumaran: Sure. Would be, like, a really good start, and then I think come Monday, we can work on, like.
395 00:46:25.170 ⇒ 00:46:31.619 Uttam Kumaran: where’s everybody on my team allocated, and like, what does the rest of the month look like? Once we’re good with that, then we’ll work on what is…
396 00:46:31.930 ⇒ 00:46:35.409 Uttam Kumaran: what does the rest of the quarter look like? And then I’ll start to show you guys, like.
397 00:46:35.770 ⇒ 00:46:41.089 Uttam Kumaran: how, when sales is selling something, how that sort of can come down. Okay. And then…
398 00:46:41.270 ⇒ 00:46:44.339 Uttam Kumaran: Really, we’ll have more of these, like, ad hoc calls, where it’s like.
399 00:46:44.860 ⇒ 00:46:50.610 Uttam Kumaran: hey, this scenario came up, would love to just discuss with everybody, or I’ll just say, like, hey, let’s catch for 15 minutes.
400 00:46:51.680 ⇒ 00:46:53.310 Uttam Kumaran: How are things going?
401 00:46:53.550 ⇒ 00:46:58.860 Uttam Kumaran: And then I want to do something more formally, you know, monthly, where we’re like, let’s look through all the tickets that came out.
402 00:46:58.970 ⇒ 00:47:08.089 Uttam Kumaran: look through all the services that we deliver. Let’s look through the people that deliver the service, like, where do we struggle? And then that’s, like, half of that, and the next half of the call is, like.
403 00:47:08.370 ⇒ 00:47:15.679 Uttam Kumaran: what playbooks, what skills or automations, what offers, and that way we can brainstorm together on that, and I think that’s, like.
404 00:47:16.240 ⇒ 00:47:24.330 Uttam Kumaran: And I would hope that over time, a conversation between, like, me and the services end up more in that camp of, like.
405 00:47:24.330 ⇒ 00:47:24.870 Samuel Roberts: Right.
406 00:47:25.190 ⇒ 00:47:29.280 Uttam Kumaran: So what else can we develop? What else can we sell? Where can we push the bar?
407 00:47:31.350 ⇒ 00:47:38.509 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and I think your team is the one that’s… that every team is gonna look closer to your team, and your team is gonna look very different than…
408 00:47:38.800 ⇒ 00:47:41.869 Uttam Kumaran: Other teams in just probably 3 or 6 months, right?
409 00:47:42.320 ⇒ 00:47:47.419 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s why, like, I have an extreme interest in that partnership with you to, like.
410 00:47:47.670 ⇒ 00:47:51.979 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, how is the AI team, like, pioneering the use of AI in their work?
411 00:47:52.290 ⇒ 00:48:03.689 Uttam Kumaran: the use of AI managing the service, and then how are we trickling that down to every other service? Because data is still probably, like, 6 months behind in terms of, like, using AI for everything.
412 00:48:03.940 ⇒ 00:48:09.729 Uttam Kumaran: And, strategy also is, like, a little bit… is probably a little bit behind that.
413 00:48:09.840 ⇒ 00:48:17.859 Uttam Kumaran: So, they’re gonna follow your lead. We’re like, how’s Sam using AI to run his service? How are your subservices using AI to execute?
414 00:48:17.990 ⇒ 00:48:20.440 Uttam Kumaran: And I want that to be, like, a,
415 00:48:20.800 ⇒ 00:48:27.589 Uttam Kumaran: shining light for the other service lines, you know? To be able to pick up and be like, okay, I can use skills and CI and…
416 00:48:27.590 ⇒ 00:48:28.280 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
417 00:48:28.280 ⇒ 00:48:31.089 Uttam Kumaran: Look at their challenges, you know, in the same way.
418 00:48:31.510 ⇒ 00:48:34.850 Uttam Kumaran: So… Yeah.
419 00:48:36.180 ⇒ 00:48:43.389 Uttam Kumaran: And even for your team, it’s like, your team should be the ones, like, using cloud agents the most, like, using harnesses the most, like…
420 00:48:43.390 ⇒ 00:48:43.820 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
421 00:48:43.820 ⇒ 00:48:46.640 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and that’s what I’m gonna start to push on, is like.
422 00:48:46.970 ⇒ 00:48:55.910 Uttam Kumaran: How are… how is the AI team, like, using every one of their own services to execute their work, and that they kind of push what they can develop for the clients?
423 00:48:56.540 ⇒ 00:48:59.859 Uttam Kumaran: Which I think is good, like, I think it’s gonna force you to kind of think about.
424 00:49:00.310 ⇒ 00:49:07.460 Uttam Kumaran: some of the things we’re thinking about platform. That’s why I think still staying tapped into, like, what we’re doing on the platform side is gonna be helpful, but I think…
425 00:49:08.010 ⇒ 00:49:14.819 Uttam Kumaran: practically, like, the platform can win or… can win or lose, but the client stuff cannot lose, right?
426 00:49:15.320 ⇒ 00:49:26.469 Uttam Kumaran: But I might just be… one… we just make it busy and be like, okay, platform is whatever, we have to pause it, versus the client stuff is… and the platform, as you can tell, things are fragile, things may break, it’s very experimental.
427 00:49:27.170 ⇒ 00:49:36.059 Uttam Kumaran: the stuff we develop when we go services, it’s, like, has to be locked down, but again, I think you’re gonna see that the platform team should inform you of, like, what’s 6 months ahead
428 00:49:36.340 ⇒ 00:49:39.430 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and, like, what we’re trying, and that’s why I think it’s so helpful.
429 00:49:39.960 ⇒ 00:49:46.919 Samuel Roberts: Definitely, definitely. Yeah, I was already thinking about, when I was putting the tickets together, like, what is human required, what is AI, like, what could be a cloud agent once we get.
430 00:49:46.920 ⇒ 00:49:57.719 Uttam Kumaran: Well, dude, you know, a great service you could develop for people, like, for clients is like, hey, we’ll come in and we will set up your harnesses for cloud agents. That’s a service, right?
431 00:49:57.780 ⇒ 00:50:12.310 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we can offer that today. Like, I think you’re more than… but see, then… but it might… for me, what I want to do is show you, like, okay, what goes into, like, putting a service… a service offering together? Like, what are the materials that sales needs to be able to sell that?
432 00:50:12.630 ⇒ 00:50:14.179 Samuel Roberts: That’s the bigger…
433 00:50:14.180 ⇒ 00:50:22.479 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… I know that’s… I know that’s the tougher part, and that’s what, like, I want to spend time working on. Yeah. You know, so…
434 00:50:22.770 ⇒ 00:50:25.939 Samuel Roberts: Cool, okay. No, I mean, that sounds good.
435 00:50:27.080 ⇒ 00:50:27.880 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
436 00:50:28.430 ⇒ 00:50:32.939 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I don’t think…
437 00:50:33.960 ⇒ 00:50:41.009 Samuel Roberts: I had many other questions, necessarily. What am I… what am I not thinking of asking? I guess, is sort of what I’m now thinking about, but…
438 00:50:43.600 ⇒ 00:50:50.879 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think, like, again, I just… the change I want to see is that the SLs are using their voice more, and that you’re coming to me with, like, there’s this challenge.
439 00:50:50.990 ⇒ 00:51:04.469 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s what I’m gonna really push for. Like, I really don’t want to be the first point of escalation, and I’m gonna push everybody to be like, did you work with your CSO or SL first? Okay. So you should see people coming to you, but then also, again, you have a team, like.
440 00:51:04.630 ⇒ 00:51:11.820 Uttam Kumaran: You have your team, you have me, you have the SL team, the whole delivery team, they’re all here to, like, support each other.
441 00:51:11.980 ⇒ 00:51:12.910 Uttam Kumaran: And…
442 00:51:13.500 ⇒ 00:51:22.890 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think that’s what I wanna do, and then, like, I also wanna come… I’m gonna try to come see you, try to come see Ivate sometime in the next, like, 2-3 months, hopefully.
443 00:51:24.850 ⇒ 00:51:29.150 Uttam Kumaran: Because I think something this year, I think we’re gonna try to see if we can get more people together.
444 00:51:29.280 ⇒ 00:51:30.840 Uttam Kumaran: More often, like.
445 00:51:30.840 ⇒ 00:51:31.230 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
446 00:51:31.230 ⇒ 00:51:40.679 Uttam Kumaran: folks in LA are meeting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I think that would be really nice, and just, like, really helpful, because I think a lot of things are gonna change this year.
447 00:51:40.910 ⇒ 00:51:45.600 Uttam Kumaran: And in establishing everybody as, like, a lead, I just want to make sure, like.
448 00:51:46.230 ⇒ 00:51:54.980 Uttam Kumaran: you know that, like, we’re… I’m also here to, like, support you, the whole team is, and so, like, that’s something I’m trying to, you know, figure out sometime in the next few months.
449 00:51:56.820 ⇒ 00:51:57.950 Samuel Roberts: No, that sounds… that sounds cool.
450 00:51:57.950 ⇒ 00:51:58.800 Kaela Gallagher: Exciting!
451 00:51:58.800 ⇒ 00:51:59.230 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
452 00:51:59.660 ⇒ 00:52:01.209 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that’d be… that’d be great.
453 00:52:03.810 ⇒ 00:52:14.679 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I feel pretty good. I mean, obviously, there’s, like, enough unknowns that it’s not, you know, we’re gonna figure these things out, so, like, I’m not, you know, build the plane while we fly it kind of thing, I get that, so…
454 00:52:14.840 ⇒ 00:52:18.350 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I feel pretty good.
455 00:52:19.170 ⇒ 00:52:20.110 Uttam Kumaran: Stop.
456 00:52:21.940 ⇒ 00:52:29.000 Kaela Gallagher: If you think of anything else, keep us in the loop, whether it’s, like, in the SL meeting, or we have a thread on Slack now, like.
457 00:52:29.000 ⇒ 00:52:29.580 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
458 00:52:29.580 ⇒ 00:52:31.879 Kaela Gallagher: Feel free to let us know any… any thoughts.
459 00:52:32.670 ⇒ 00:52:34.280 Samuel Roberts: Okay. Alright, cool.
460 00:52:34.980 ⇒ 00:52:35.770 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.
461 00:52:36.210 ⇒ 00:52:39.360 Kaela Gallagher: Awesome! Well, thanks for your guys’ time today.
462 00:52:39.770 ⇒ 00:52:41.170 Uttam Kumaran: People are still confit it.
463 00:52:41.530 ⇒ 00:52:42.540 Kaela Gallagher: Alrighty.
464 00:52:42.540 ⇒ 00:52:43.560 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s a second.
465 00:52:43.840 ⇒ 00:52:44.479 Samuel Roberts: Did you hear that?