Meeting Title: Global VetLink Project Deliverables Review Date: 2026-04-01 Meeting participants: Greg Stoutenburg, Kat Gillis, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:00:06.630 ⇒ 00:00:09.060 Greg Stoutenburg: And contracts connected.
2 00:00:09.170 ⇒ 00:00:10.020 Greg Stoutenburg: Complex.
3 00:00:11.000 ⇒ 00:00:13.569 Greg Stoutenburg: Program 7, or 22 up.
4 00:00:17.930 ⇒ 00:00:18.830 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
5 00:00:20.420 ⇒ 00:00:21.860 Greg Stoutenburg: In a nutshell, Bobby.
6 00:00:23.310 ⇒ 00:00:27.860 Greg Stoutenburg: 1970, terrible series happened in Canada for herders.
7 00:00:28.390 ⇒ 00:00:30.509 Greg Stoutenburg: Exchange them off the roads.
8 00:00:30.780 ⇒ 00:00:33.610 Greg Stoutenburg: So there are now beautiful people crossing the same value.
9 00:00:40.020 ⇒ 00:00:41.029 Greg Stoutenburg: I got out of you.
10 00:00:41.810 ⇒ 00:00:43.109 Greg Stoutenburg: I swear bye.
11 00:01:30.790 ⇒ 00:01:31.370 Kat Gillis: Hi, Greg.
12 00:01:31.370 ⇒ 00:01:33.520 Greg Stoutenburg: Any cut… Hey!
13 00:01:34.140 ⇒ 00:01:35.080 Kat Gillis: How are you?
14 00:01:35.080 ⇒ 00:01:36.370 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, hey, good, how are you?
15 00:01:36.590 ⇒ 00:01:37.419 Kat Gillis: Good, thanks.
16 00:01:37.680 ⇒ 00:01:39.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Audio cut out for a second there.
17 00:01:42.210 ⇒ 00:02:00.630 Greg Stoutenburg: All right, cool, we just have half an hour, so maybe we’ll just jump right in. That sounds great. The, the goal of this call was just to go over the final deliverables for the project, and then look at, look at where we go from here. I’ve got some ideas, but I want to hear from you as well, and sort of, you know, align on what that looks like.
18 00:02:00.820 ⇒ 00:02:07.689 Greg Stoutenburg: The first thing, and I won’t get too into the weeds on it… oh yeah, Robert’s here with us as well. Hey, Robert!
19 00:02:09.139 ⇒ 00:02:09.680 Greg Stoutenburg: You’re alright.
20 00:02:09.680 ⇒ 00:02:12.430 Robert Tseng: Hey! Hey, Greg. Hey, Kat. Sorry, running a little late.
21 00:02:12.430 ⇒ 00:02:25.999 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, no problem. We were just getting started, so I’ll just sort of give, like, a kind of brief overview of each of the deliverables, because, you know, they’re kind of long and detailed. And you can spend some time with them, you know, digging in, and I’m happy to answer any follow-up questions, of course, but…
22 00:02:26.000 ⇒ 00:02:41.819 Greg Stoutenburg: To just do that overview, thought we would just jump right in. So, and I’ll… I’ll… anything that I haven’t shared yet, I will… I’ll share with you in the channel as well, so you have direct access to it. So for the tracking plan, broke this up into user properties.
23 00:02:42.000 ⇒ 00:03:05.059 Greg Stoutenburg: organization properties, which in your case would be clinics, events and event properties, that’s of, that’s of, you know, clinic operators and vets managing certificates and such inside of the app, and then some metrics to consider for performance as we, as we move forward. So, for user properties, I started… I did sort of a combination of things. One is just took
24 00:03:05.060 ⇒ 00:03:16.689 Greg Stoutenburg: Anything that it would seem that you’d want to track for someone engaging with the product, whether they were a vet or someone who would be vet-adjacent, and included those here.
25 00:03:16.690 ⇒ 00:03:22.370 Greg Stoutenburg: You had said some things that I made sure to note, like, about, multiple states, for example.
26 00:03:22.370 ⇒ 00:03:22.780 Kat Gillis: Hmm.
27 00:03:22.780 ⇒ 00:03:30.960 Greg Stoutenburg: federal license, you know, review, so I made sure that those things were included here. You had asked if we could have
28 00:03:31.600 ⇒ 00:03:49.749 Greg Stoutenburg: a property for accreditation category, and we can definitely do that. So, built that in here, wanted to call that out. I did also want to ask you, is this… is this accurate? Category 1 is companion animals, but not food, livestock, birds, or horses. Category 2 is any?
29 00:03:51.320 ⇒ 00:03:54.930 Kat Gillis: I actually have no idea. Okay.
30 00:03:54.930 ⇒ 00:03:56.120 Greg Stoutenburg: I think it’s right.
31 00:03:56.120 ⇒ 00:04:05.050 Kat Gillis: Okay, I was gonna say, I think that that’s, like, an actual federal classification, so… Yeah. If that’s what Claude said, it’s probably right, but…
32 00:04:05.050 ⇒ 00:04:05.880 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great.
33 00:04:05.880 ⇒ 00:04:11.760 Kat Gillis: One question, we have user properties in there right now, right?
34 00:04:11.970 ⇒ 00:04:36.960 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, there are some user properties in there right now. So yeah, so just to clarify, this is… this is the golden state. This is what we want to see, and so there will be… and I’ll walk through this as well in just a moment. There will be places where we’ll see that what’s in the tracking plan aligns with things you already have, and then other places where what’s in the tracking plan does not align with what you already have, and then that turns into recommendations for, here’s what we need to improve in Pendo, or we need to switch to another
35 00:04:36.960 ⇒ 00:04:40.009 Greg Stoutenburg: tool, and we’ll instrument it this way cleanly to begin with.
36 00:04:40.940 ⇒ 00:04:41.700 Kat Gillis: Yep.
37 00:04:41.700 ⇒ 00:04:50.350 Greg Stoutenburg: So, and then, yeah, sort of just moving on from there, anything related to account and payment, anything related to creating certs and templates.
38 00:04:51.400 ⇒ 00:05:00.279 Greg Stoutenburg: Organization properties just included information about clinic ID, name, state, how many vets they have, how many certs they’ve created, and similar.
39 00:05:00.730 ⇒ 00:05:01.450 Kat Gillis: Okay.
40 00:05:01.860 ⇒ 00:05:15.580 Greg Stoutenburg: And then events and event properties. I broke this up into category, just to make it a little more digestible. So, group together any properties related to sign up, which is sort of, I mean, basic product stuff.
41 00:05:15.750 ⇒ 00:05:24.670 Greg Stoutenburg: This is probably the category where you’re already closest to ideal in your current instrumentation, where there’s sort of less deviation than other categories.
42 00:05:25.080 ⇒ 00:05:41.300 Greg Stoutenburg: For milestones, this is one we worked through together, and then in my subsequent call with Andrea, she said, oh, you know, like, here’s some suggestions to change some things, and so that’s represented here as well. We’ve got clinic sign-ups, license verifications completed, clinic draft certificate created.
43 00:05:41.460 ⇒ 00:05:44.900 Greg Stoutenburg: Vet signature clinic paid, as the milestones.
44 00:05:45.170 ⇒ 00:05:52.120 Kat Gillis: So, if you scroll back to the top, just so that I can orient around Pendo terminology, I think…
45 00:05:52.340 ⇒ 00:06:01.550 Kat Gillis: They would call the… They would call these features.
46 00:06:01.670 ⇒ 00:06:05.300 Greg Stoutenburg: So, there’s gonna be a little bit of crosstalk on this, and this is one of
47 00:06:05.640 ⇒ 00:06:25.270 Greg Stoutenburg: that’s important about where we go from here. Because… so, Pendo will use the language of event in a way that’s ambiguous between something that a user is doing in a track event that you’ve manually instrumented, versus an action on a feature, versus an action on a page, but they’re all still users performing events.
48 00:06:25.270 ⇒ 00:06:25.750 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
49 00:06:25.750 ⇒ 00:06:28.749 Greg Stoutenburg: So this is using the more… the more general terminology here.
50 00:06:28.750 ⇒ 00:06:44.779 Kat Gillis: Okay, yeah, because I had a… I had an audit call with them last week, and they were like, oh, like, basically, you shouldn’t use track events. Everything that you’re doing can be represented as a feature, so just ignore track events. Track events is where we have everything set up right now.
51 00:06:44.780 ⇒ 00:06:46.030 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Yeah.
52 00:06:46.040 ⇒ 00:06:49.399 Kat Gillis: recommending, kind of, a vibration.
53 00:06:49.820 ⇒ 00:06:50.320 Kat Gillis: Well…
54 00:06:50.320 ⇒ 00:07:07.910 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, we’ll address that in just a moment. Yeah, I’ll have an opinion as well. And then finally, just to kind of point to this, the main certificate completion workflow is here, and this is where the money is, right? It’s getting those certificates signed that the business is based on, and
55 00:07:07.910 ⇒ 00:07:14.000 Greg Stoutenburg: In an ideal instrumentation of this, we’ve done things like what we talked about before, which is, you know, cert type.
56 00:07:14.080 ⇒ 00:07:30.419 Greg Stoutenburg: is a property of an event, so when you map out creation, what you’re really mapping out isn’t the funnel of creating a particular certificate, but just any certificate at all. And then in subsequent analysis, you can break it down by type. So, wanted to point to that.
57 00:07:30.750 ⇒ 00:07:41.279 Greg Stoutenburg: And, so you can… you can study that, and we can chat through it some more, but feeling pretty good about this. Okay for me to move on to the next… next thing?
58 00:07:41.420 ⇒ 00:07:47.710 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep. Like I said, I’m not trying to… not trying to rush, just, you know, respect our time, and they’re kind of long.
59 00:07:47.980 ⇒ 00:08:01.369 Greg Stoutenburg: The next thing we’re looking for is an implementation audit of Pendo, and this… I put together a total of 15 pages on this that’ll identify a lot of individual problems, but what I really want to point to is just…
60 00:08:01.610 ⇒ 00:08:15.630 Greg Stoutenburg: this… this main takeaway. And we kind of alluded to it a moment ago. There are lots of places in Pendo where, because of the way Pendo does instrumentation, the same event is tracked multiple times in different ways.
61 00:08:15.660 ⇒ 00:08:28.480 Greg Stoutenburg: and other places where there are things that are being tracked that just aren’t used at all, and don’t match up to anything that’s in the event tracking plan. And my event tracking plan, it’s not, like, terribly opinionated. It’s, like.
62 00:08:28.480 ⇒ 00:08:39.560 Greg Stoutenburg: here’s what’s being used in your product, here’s what you want people to do when they use Global VetLink, and trying to align your analytics to that. So, there are 68 track events.
63 00:08:39.900 ⇒ 00:08:45.139 Greg Stoutenburg: A lot of them are sort of double-counted with actions and pages.
64 00:08:45.800 ⇒ 00:08:47.850 Greg Stoutenburg: There are 76 pages.
65 00:08:48.190 ⇒ 00:09:01.720 Greg Stoutenburg: A lot of them have identical URL rules, so one and the same action on a tracked page would show up in reports in different ways, depending on what you typed in for what you’re, what you’re trying to add to a funnel or to a chart.
66 00:09:02.110 ⇒ 00:09:11.230 Greg Stoutenburg: 256 features, 152 of them have no activity at all, in a very long time.
67 00:09:11.360 ⇒ 00:09:22.609 Greg Stoutenburg: And, around half of those are very, very granular. So, wouldn’t really, you know, from a broad perspective, be of much help for a lot of reporting.
68 00:09:22.870 ⇒ 00:09:28.260 Greg Stoutenburg: So, from here, what I… what I did is looked at…
69 00:09:29.100 ⇒ 00:09:38.820 Greg Stoutenburg: So SSOT is… this is the tracking plan, looked at what we want to see based on the tracking plan, and then whether or not that’s captured in a track event.
70 00:09:38.920 ⇒ 00:09:56.050 Greg Stoutenburg: And then, anywhere else, you know, that it shows up or doesn’t. And so, depending on where we go from here, and again, you know, we have some ideas, we’ll talk about it, this is something that we could use to, you know, revise the instrumentation or, or, you know, take another approach.
71 00:09:56.500 ⇒ 00:09:56.840 Kat Gillis: Yep.
72 00:09:56.840 ⇒ 00:10:02.250 Greg Stoutenburg: From here on, this is where it gets really in the weeds for the rest of the doc. So this is where every single event
73 00:10:02.660 ⇒ 00:10:14.010 Greg Stoutenburg: here’s how much has been used, here’s whether or not it aligns with the tracking plan, and so on. So I’ll let you… I’ll let you, tackle that one as well, for some, you know, some evening reading, perhaps.
74 00:10:14.210 ⇒ 00:10:29.729 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, and then this one, I’ll sort of just summarize verbally. As far as Pendo versus alternatives, so I… I think probably what the Pendo person who you talked to is suggesting is, like, don’t worry about track events because features and pages will kind of auto-track everything for you.
75 00:10:29.830 ⇒ 00:10:47.890 Greg Stoutenburg: while that’s true, I think we can also see how that leads to some of the noise that already exists there. Auto-tracking is great because it makes something easy, but it also makes it kind of less precise. This is something that we see when there’s a lot of reliance on different kinds of auto-tracking features in product analytics implementations.
76 00:10:47.890 ⇒ 00:10:52.420 Greg Stoutenburg: So, it’s not terribly surprising, but kind of wanted to call that out.
77 00:10:52.810 ⇒ 00:11:09.339 Greg Stoutenburg: Now, whether you stay with Pendo and want to do work to clean it up, or switch to another product analytics tool, you’ll be able to get to the end state of reporting on the core workflow and signups and things like that.
78 00:11:09.430 ⇒ 00:11:20.279 Greg Stoutenburg: I would recommend, I sort of lay out some alternatives here, I would recommend considering an alternative like Amplitude, because you’ll get… you’ll get stronger product analytics.
79 00:11:20.280 ⇒ 00:11:44.120 Greg Stoutenburg: and more discipline around funnels and cohorts. There’s still an amount of auto-tracking ability where you want to use it, like, you know, like, interactions with Smart Engine, for example. If you want to analyze those just on their own, you can go, okay, I just want to track anything that goes on in this modal, right? But for the most part, we’re actually trying to, like, rein in the way that we’re using product analytics to be more precise, because we think it’s going to be more powerful for you.
80 00:11:44.520 ⇒ 00:11:45.100 Kat Gillis: Hmm.
81 00:11:45.120 ⇒ 00:12:03.049 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ll also just mention that, like, as affiliate partners, we can give you 3 months of it for free, so… which is, which is pretty, pretty neat as far as, you know, a transition goes. And, you know, other alternatives would be, like, Mixpanel or PostHog, and but Amplitude’s the one where we can give you that deal, and…
82 00:12:03.220 ⇒ 00:12:04.930 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m a fan. So…
83 00:12:05.470 ⇒ 00:12:06.130 Kat Gillis: Excellent.
84 00:12:06.490 ⇒ 00:12:10.220 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I… so, I tried to be really quick there.
85 00:12:10.630 ⇒ 00:12:17.099 Greg Stoutenburg: Do you have any questions about anything that you saw before? Like, before… before you’d have a chance to dig in?
86 00:12:19.250 ⇒ 00:12:25.240 Kat Gillis: I don’t think so. I mean, my, yeah, main question is…
87 00:12:25.780 ⇒ 00:12:31.279 Kat Gillis: if we stay with Pendo, how do we get to the gold state.
88 00:12:31.590 ⇒ 00:12:32.190 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
89 00:12:32.190 ⇒ 00:12:32.830 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
90 00:12:33.190 ⇒ 00:12:52.219 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so this is where… I mean, the answer is that it’s just going to be a lot of work. There’s going to be a lot of things that have to be deleted. I mean, I might simply, you know, of the 256 features, I might just… if there’s a way to, like, Ctrl-A, delete all of them, and start over, I might do that.
91 00:12:52.230 ⇒ 00:13:07.700 Greg Stoutenburg: for… for track events, I’d be a little bit more selective, because they get a little closer to… a little closer to precision, but there still has to be a lot of renaming, there has to be a lot of… as we’ve been mapping out workflows, we’d want to do that for every single thing that is a track event.
92 00:13:07.700 ⇒ 00:13:17.459 Greg Stoutenburg: to make sure that we don’t have redundancies, and make sure we don’t have gaps. Again, a lot of this is cataloged here, but we would still have to do… the mapping exercise would be new work. Yeah.
93 00:13:17.850 ⇒ 00:13:26.619 Greg Stoutenburg: Now, if you… if you switch, you… you just start off with blank slate. You don’t have to delete anything. You just, you build from the ground up. And…
94 00:13:26.620 ⇒ 00:13:40.939 Greg Stoutenburg: both Amplitude and Pendo will integrate with HubSpot, which I know is… this is one of the things that we care about here, right, is getting that lifecycle… getting those lifecycle touchpoints automated so that your team doesn’t have to do so much manual work of pulling reports.
95 00:13:41.050 ⇒ 00:13:43.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Sending emails, and so on.
96 00:13:43.520 ⇒ 00:13:44.160 Kat Gillis: Yep.
97 00:13:44.410 ⇒ 00:13:45.060 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
98 00:13:45.060 ⇒ 00:13:54.440 Kat Gillis: Okay, makes sense. Yeah, I’ve spent the last week playing around in Pendo much more,
99 00:13:54.730 ⇒ 00:14:02.489 Kat Gillis: we very quickly, we launched a new feature and wanted to start tracking that immediately, so I just kind of threw…
100 00:14:02.600 ⇒ 00:14:05.580 Kat Gillis: another feature into the hopper. Yeah.
101 00:14:05.580 ⇒ 00:14:06.490 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah.
102 00:14:08.460 ⇒ 00:14:20.659 Kat Gillis: what is the general… so, I assume down the line, we would have a naming convention and a process, and kind of know, okay, when we do add new features, this is how to cleanly add them?
103 00:14:20.900 ⇒ 00:14:32.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, yep. We can provide a naming convention, like, the most standard one is just object action, so what’s the thing you acted on, and then what’s the, you know, what did you do, you know, button clicked is an example, noun verb.
104 00:14:32.780 ⇒ 00:14:33.240 Kat Gillis: Yep.
105 00:14:33.240 ⇒ 00:14:48.240 Greg Stoutenburg: So we can… we can provide guidance on that, and just make sure that things are consistent. Often, when folks are instrumenting properties rather than events, they’ll use all lowercase and put, you know, the dash in between.
106 00:14:48.240 ⇒ 00:14:56.220 Greg Stoutenburg: So some conventions like that make it easy to, you know, manage what you see. Yeah, and we can provide guidance on that as well.
107 00:14:56.690 ⇒ 00:14:57.330 Kat Gillis: Okay.
108 00:14:57.330 ⇒ 00:15:09.210 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. So yeah, I mean, so just, you know, based on expectations from the SOW and your conversations with Robert earlier, and what we were able to deliver, I mean, how do you feel that this engagement went over the last couple of weeks?
109 00:15:09.360 ⇒ 00:15:13.990 Kat Gillis: So, I did see in Slack that you mentioned you implemented a…
110 00:15:14.510 ⇒ 00:15:18.270 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, I forgot to show you. Yes, yeah, that’s in. Yep.
111 00:15:18.480 ⇒ 00:15:19.909 Greg Stoutenburg: I may get that.
112 00:15:20.040 ⇒ 00:15:22.520 Greg Stoutenburg: This is what I get for having so many tabs open.
113 00:15:22.520 ⇒ 00:15:23.140 Kat Gillis: -
114 00:15:32.040 ⇒ 00:15:33.920 Greg Stoutenburg: I created this funnel.
115 00:15:34.030 ⇒ 00:15:36.490 Greg Stoutenburg: That shows your…
116 00:15:36.830 ⇒ 00:15:55.500 Greg Stoutenburg: CVI creation. So, because this is the, you know, this is one of the highest volume actions that a user takes in the product, I mapped out the certificate creation workflow from initial signing in to clicking the button to begin the workflow through each of the main steps to signing.
117 00:15:56.280 ⇒ 00:16:03.000 Greg Stoutenburg: And that’s available here. I’ll make sure that you have a link to that. I’ll actually… I’ll drop that in Slack for you.
118 00:16:03.170 ⇒ 00:16:06.150 Greg Stoutenburg: Some… some takeaways here is that
119 00:16:06.200 ⇒ 00:16:25.770 Greg Stoutenburg: Now, you know, in follow-on work, we could try to understand exactly what’s happening between sign-in and creation. It could be the folks are creating other things rather than CVIs. It could also just be that this represents a significant drop-off that we need to fix. But one of the things that we see is that there’s a pretty steep drop from mid-workflow
120 00:16:25.770 ⇒ 00:16:30.459 Greg Stoutenburg: From work on the movement card to actions related to animals.
121 00:16:30.480 ⇒ 00:16:41.079 Greg Stoutenburg: So it looks like this is, this to me is significant because it’s… someone who’s gotten here is high intent. The fact that they’re then dropping off
122 00:16:41.570 ⇒ 00:16:45.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Before they get here, that’s significant to me, and that’s something that we’d want to work on.
123 00:16:46.300 ⇒ 00:16:46.890 Kat Gillis: Yep.
124 00:16:46.890 ⇒ 00:16:47.490 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
125 00:16:48.130 ⇒ 00:16:57.619 Kat Gillis: These are existing events that we have that you just kind of approximated are what Andrea described in the workflow, is that right?
126 00:16:57.620 ⇒ 00:17:12.999 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, well, yeah, so this was… this was a conversation with Andrea, and this was also just having worked through it myself and mapped out what each stage was, and then I was able, because there are so many tracked features and pages, as well as some events, I was able to put them together to get this part in.
127 00:17:13.000 ⇒ 00:17:13.929 Kat Gillis: Okay, got it.
128 00:17:13.930 ⇒ 00:17:17.579 Greg Stoutenburg: Now, you know, a caveat is this is just for CVIs.
129 00:17:17.579 ⇒ 00:17:34.369 Greg Stoutenburg: And because instrumentation is intended to be follow-on work, you know, I’d still want to get in and make sure that each one of these represents exactly what we think that it does, but with the available documentation, I was able to go, yeah, this is the CVI workflow as it exists now, yeah.
130 00:17:34.370 ⇒ 00:17:38.179 Kat Gillis: And I can see at the bottom, like, those are the event names that…
131 00:17:38.850 ⇒ 00:17:42.799 Kat Gillis: We… I mean, it’s a total mixed bag of.
132 00:17:42.800 ⇒ 00:17:43.490 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
133 00:17:43.490 ⇒ 00:17:44.650 Kat Gillis: Okay. Yeah, yeah.
134 00:17:44.650 ⇒ 00:17:48.240 Greg Stoutenburg: What I’d love to see, and this would… so, like, to follow the recommendations that I’ve provided.
135 00:17:48.620 ⇒ 00:17:54.480 Greg Stoutenburg: This would be, like, movement card, and then a property of this would be CVI.
136 00:17:54.990 ⇒ 00:17:56.070 Kat Gillis: Hmm…
137 00:17:56.380 ⇒ 00:18:02.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Whereas, if someone was working on an EECVI, then it’d be movement card, property, EECVI.
138 00:18:02.510 ⇒ 00:18:05.380 Kat Gillis: Yep, so that we could filter on that.
139 00:18:05.380 ⇒ 00:18:05.810 Greg Stoutenburg: Exactly.
140 00:18:05.890 ⇒ 00:18:06.860 Kat Gillis: Okay, okay.
141 00:18:06.860 ⇒ 00:18:18.639 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, yep, yep. And that’s the, you know, that’s the right future of the… of just the analytics side, so you really get that visibility and that clarity. Yeah, and I’ll… I’ll make sure to share that with you as well.
142 00:18:19.210 ⇒ 00:18:37.080 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, cool. So, like, thinking about… thinking about future directions and what you’d like to see, like I said, you know, I’m… I’m… I’m prepared to, like, walk through the opportunities that I see, but just thinking through what we’ve done so far, what thoughts do you have on, like, what it would… what you’d like to see in subsequent work from us?
143 00:18:38.110 ⇒ 00:18:39.660 Kat Gillis: Yeah,
144 00:18:40.090 ⇒ 00:18:58.040 Kat Gillis: I think we are mostly bought into Pendo at this point, honestly, just because of switching fatigue on platforms. I know it’s not the best, and maybe clean slate. I would have picked Amplitude. I used that at a prior company, but we’re here now, and I think it’s just gonna set us further back.
145 00:18:58.580 ⇒ 00:19:07.960 Kat Gillis: So… Yeah, I’m curious what your recommendations are. Certainly, it seems like getting our,
146 00:19:08.270 ⇒ 00:19:14.209 Kat Gillis: events cleaned up and properties cleaned up is a big one to actually start using it, but… yeah.
147 00:19:14.810 ⇒ 00:19:18.809 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, I mean, so I see, I see, like.
148 00:19:19.090 ⇒ 00:19:37.410 Greg Stoutenburg: three big opportunities, and and so, I mean, you know, like, the main proposal would be to do all of them. But just to… real quick, for reference, I took… this is details from the pricing page. So I actually see some revenue increase opportunities that are… they’re sort of right in front of us here.
149 00:19:37.410 ⇒ 00:19:52.860 Greg Stoutenburg: One is what we’ve just been discussing, which is laying out that product analytics foundation. We can do that in Pendo. I understand tool switching fatigue. I would just want to note that probably the amount of work that’s going to be needed to clean up Pendo is similar to what it would take to switch.
150 00:19:52.860 ⇒ 00:20:01.919 Greg Stoutenburg: So I just want to call that out, but yeah, you know, respect it. If you want to stick with Pendle, that’s totally fine. You know, that’s your tool of choice, people are used to it, they’ve got their logins, and so on.
151 00:20:01.920 ⇒ 00:20:18.719 Greg Stoutenburg: So it would be to instrument the workflow that we’ve just talked about in the tracking plan, clean up Pendo, and make sure that it matches that, and then build out dashboards on core user actions, things like the funnel from
152 00:20:18.720 ⇒ 00:20:29.709 Greg Stoutenburg: visiting the page, signing up, from signing up to getting through those various workflows where someone’s creating a certificate. So, getting the foundation in place to be able to track what you need to track.
153 00:20:30.450 ⇒ 00:20:31.570 Greg Stoutenburg: Second.
154 00:20:31.780 ⇒ 00:20:38.749 Greg Stoutenburg: proposal here is optimizing that funnel. So, this is… this one is based directly on the Pendo chart that we just looked at.
155 00:20:39.310 ⇒ 00:20:51.949 Greg Stoutenburg: Based on the drop-off that I see, I think you can increase sales about 10% without having to acquire… with visitors staying flat, and with sign-ups staying flat, because of what that completion rate looks like. So…
156 00:20:52.060 ⇒ 00:20:57.569 Greg Stoutenburg: In the last 30 days, we’re at about 1.8% login to completion, and then if I take
157 00:20:57.650 ⇒ 00:21:10.329 Greg Stoutenburg: instead of just logging to CVI completion, look at users who begin the workflow, only 3.8% of them get to the end. And it takes five and a half days, which seems like a long time, which is probably part of the reason there’s so much drop-off.
158 00:21:10.350 ⇒ 00:21:19.609 Greg Stoutenburg: we could tighten that up, and I think what you’d see is, you know, getting, like, to 5%, which is a modest, reasonable
159 00:21:19.850 ⇒ 00:21:34.139 Greg Stoutenburg: goal. You could get, you know, if you had 1,000 starters, that’s, you know, this much more per month just on CBIs, and, you know, and it only goes up from there, because those delegates are more expensive.
160 00:21:34.440 ⇒ 00:21:38.240 Greg Stoutenburg: So, I think you’d increase sales about 10% just by optimizing the funnel.
161 00:21:39.140 ⇒ 00:21:45.520 Greg Stoutenburg: Moving down… Third…
162 00:21:45.910 ⇒ 00:21:51.110 Greg Stoutenburg: Lifecycle automation. Again, this is one of the ones that you called out as a goal.
163 00:21:51.360 ⇒ 00:22:02.229 Greg Stoutenburg: by preventing churn and getting some more effective user resurrection, you could potentially, I think, bring in a lot more revenue. So, looking at
164 00:22:02.520 ⇒ 00:22:07.130 Greg Stoutenburg: I created this table that breaks down certificate type, again, using your pricing chart.
165 00:22:07.300 ⇒ 00:22:17.739 Greg Stoutenburg: If you got… if you resurrected, clinics that created just, like, 3 certificates in a month, which is, you know, pretty low, you could bring in
166 00:22:17.890 ⇒ 00:22:34.349 Greg Stoutenburg: an additional, like, 644,000 in a year. And I realize that is a big range, of course. But that’s, you know, certificate type, that’s a range of how many clinics you get, but just on the very low end. If you had 20 clinics in a year come back.
167 00:22:34.450 ⇒ 00:22:39.040 Greg Stoutenburg: And create, 3 CVIs a month, you get there.
168 00:22:39.860 ⇒ 00:22:42.950 Greg Stoutenburg: 3… You know.
169 00:22:43.350 ⇒ 00:22:51.080 Greg Stoutenburg: Hawaii, discounted, you know, because they’re on the plan already, 99,000, right? If you get 100 clinics, you’re over here.
170 00:22:51.170 ⇒ 00:23:07.200 Greg Stoutenburg: So, it looks like there’s a… what, to me, seems like a pretty big revenue opportunity to automate those signals and really hit users when they’re interested and in the right time. That would involve segmenting users and stuff, you know, effectively, to identify those groups and reach them.
171 00:23:07.490 ⇒ 00:23:07.880 Kat Gillis: Yep.
172 00:23:07.880 ⇒ 00:23:13.599 Greg Stoutenburg: And then, you know, that’s just all of the above, sort of the proposal.
173 00:23:13.710 ⇒ 00:23:14.819 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
174 00:23:15.390 ⇒ 00:23:21.649 Greg Stoutenburg: So, I know we just have a couple more minutes here, but wanted to, you know, sort of get your reaction to that.
175 00:23:23.190 ⇒ 00:23:32.410 Kat Gillis: Yeah, makes sense. cost, obviously, will play a role, but I think what you’ve laid out makes a lot of sense, and…
176 00:23:32.550 ⇒ 00:23:36.490 Kat Gillis: At least right now, you know, without even number one, we’re not…
177 00:23:36.490 ⇒ 00:23:36.950 Greg Stoutenburg: Goodbye.
178 00:23:36.950 ⇒ 00:23:39.659 Kat Gillis: Using the tool at all.
179 00:23:39.660 ⇒ 00:23:40.040 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
180 00:23:40.040 ⇒ 00:23:44.960 Kat Gillis: Frankly, so… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
181 00:23:47.510 ⇒ 00:23:47.990 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
182 00:23:47.990 ⇒ 00:23:48.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Duck.
183 00:23:49.140 ⇒ 00:23:57.260 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, it’s, is that something, like, to make a choice on one of these? Is that your decision?
184 00:23:57.440 ⇒ 00:23:58.980 Greg Stoutenburg: That this would go to you?
185 00:23:58.980 ⇒ 00:24:07.630 Kat Gillis: Yes, yep, yeah, so if… I think it would be helpful to see, kind of, per,
186 00:24:08.040 ⇒ 00:24:14.930 Kat Gillis: work stream, price, and then also the kind of, if we did all three together. Yeah.
187 00:24:15.230 ⇒ 00:24:18.400 Kat Gillis: That would be helpful to see. I’m also curious…
188 00:24:18.990 ⇒ 00:24:23.149 Kat Gillis: If you guys do, kind of, monthly, ongoing…
189 00:24:23.280 ⇒ 00:24:30.470 Kat Gillis: retainers? Okay, Robert’s nodding yes. just because I could see a world in which… you know.
190 00:24:30.710 ⇒ 00:24:35.570 Kat Gillis: Ongoing, just looking at the data and determining…
191 00:24:36.420 ⇒ 00:24:44.870 Kat Gillis: what actions to take in the product could potentially be useful. Eventually, my PMs should take that over, but they do not have the skill right now.
192 00:24:44.870 ⇒ 00:24:47.800 Greg Stoutenburg: Sure, yeah, maybe we can… we can get her started.
193 00:24:47.800 ⇒ 00:24:49.469 Kat Gillis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
194 00:24:49.950 ⇒ 00:25:00.450 Robert Tseng: On that note with your PMs, I mean, obviously they would be the ones that we would be trying to enable and, like, this work in order for it to succeed, like, and to kind of implement.
195 00:25:00.470 ⇒ 00:25:20.659 Robert Tseng: I know that you’re kind of leading over a few different teams. Is there a roadmap or, like, some OKRs or something we could align to, just so, like, we could better frame, kind of, these work streams? Like, obviously, we took a more of a bottoms-up approach here, and just, like, from what we saw across the field, like, here’s what we want to bring up to you, but maybe if we could try to package it to something that’s more…
196 00:25:20.660 ⇒ 00:25:25.030 Robert Tseng: You know, digestible for you, that could be helpful when we rewrite this as well.
197 00:25:25.560 ⇒ 00:25:28.290 Kat Gillis: Yeah, I mean, interestingly, I’ll say, like.
198 00:25:28.390 ⇒ 00:25:32.169 Kat Gillis: the business is doing very well, and so the CEO doesn’t…
199 00:25:32.660 ⇒ 00:25:41.819 Kat Gillis: it’s kind of like, oh, things are going well, we’re generating certs, you know, when good, they’re good, it’s all good.
200 00:25:41.820 ⇒ 00:25:54.180 Kat Gillis: Greg, what you pointed out has been my argument of, like, okay, we could probably get users to create even more certs in specific circumstances and situations, though, because I also oversee marketing.
201 00:25:54.310 ⇒ 00:26:09.270 Kat Gillis: Yeah. Pendo is kind of, like, the way for me to do some of that. We’re… I’m hitting my marketing goals just fine without Kendo and without any of these activation measures, so… Right.
202 00:26:09.380 ⇒ 00:26:18.719 Kat Gillis: to your point, Robert, like, yes, we have OKRs, but they… or we have, revenue targets, but we’re kind of hitting them without this.
203 00:26:19.310 ⇒ 00:26:19.990 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
204 00:26:20.240 ⇒ 00:26:24.330 Greg Stoutenburg: would the CEO like to see an awesome year? I guess, I suppose that’s part of the.
205 00:26:24.330 ⇒ 00:26:29.749 Kat Gillis: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I should, like, he’s super ambitious, and I think would be excited if I was like, hey.
206 00:26:29.930 ⇒ 00:26:38.330 Kat Gillis: A, we need better tracking, that he has been pushing for, and so I think that’s gonna be a big one, but if we can tie it to,
207 00:26:39.670 ⇒ 00:26:44.429 Kat Gillis: revenue, and almost as a marketing channel, I think that helps as well.
208 00:26:44.690 ⇒ 00:26:55.509 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, good. Yeah, that’s helpful insight for the pitch. So, so he likes the analytics stuff, and so framing it that way is helpful, but will tie into the marketing value.
209 00:26:55.510 ⇒ 00:26:56.040 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
210 00:26:56.490 ⇒ 00:26:57.020 Greg Stoutenburg: F.
211 00:26:59.300 ⇒ 00:27:10.979 Robert Tseng: curious, like, you know, this is not from this conversation, this is just me kind of hovering in the background, listening to the other conversations you guys have already had, but, you know, we talked about
212 00:27:11.590 ⇒ 00:27:29.019 Robert Tseng: audience building on the lifecycle side. I mean, there’s, like, I kind of view it as, like, there’s different parts of the funnel. At the top of the funnel, we can get more, kind of, qualified leads, if you want to talk… think about it that way, who are going through the flow, converting by building… by kind of filling out the… the form more, the cert more.
213 00:27:29.020 ⇒ 00:27:38.410 Robert Tseng: And then, middle of the funnel is, like, actually going through and being a first-time payer, or, you know, they have to actually submit it. And then bottom of the funnel is, like, okay, well, how do we target them?
214 00:27:38.410 ⇒ 00:27:46.550 Robert Tseng: Or, like, learn about this group of, these users, and go find other people that are similar, similar boat to them. Like.
215 00:27:47.050 ⇒ 00:27:55.399 Robert Tseng: When you’re kind of setting goals for your marketing team, are you… you’re hitting… is there one of these parts of the funnel that you’re more, like, focused on over the others?
216 00:27:55.400 ⇒ 00:28:15.009 Kat Gillis: Yeah, so the marketing team, we own 75% of the market, so 75% of all health certificates in the United States run through Global VetLink, so the marketing team has been focused on getting that last 25%, but that’s expensive and hard to do, and it’s big clinics, so…
217 00:28:15.010 ⇒ 00:28:18.249 Kat Gillis: when I came on board, I would say it was mostly, like.
218 00:28:18.930 ⇒ 00:28:33.000 Kat Gillis: dabbling in pop-of-funnel stuff. Nobody has ever looked at how to get customers to use the product more. So that has been, like, in the last 3 months, that’s what I’ve highlighted, is, hey, if we just have people create more certificates.
219 00:28:33.370 ⇒ 00:28:33.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
220 00:28:33.820 ⇒ 00:28:42.220 Kat Gillis: get more money that way, too. I think the hesitation has been that there is a fixed pool of certificates to be created. It’s not…
221 00:28:42.350 ⇒ 00:28:58.110 Kat Gillis: as simple as… like, vets need horse owners to come to them to ask for certificates to be created. Horses need to be traveling, so if horses aren’t traveling more, vets don’t have to create certificates, and that’s not our problem.
222 00:28:58.570 ⇒ 00:29:06.299 Kat Gillis: So, that’s been somewhat of the tension, I think, why people haven’t focused on it. I suspect, though, that there’s, like, some amount of…
223 00:29:06.840 ⇒ 00:29:10.699 Kat Gillis: Certs being created that are done outside of the platform.
224 00:29:11.910 ⇒ 00:29:16.840 Kat Gillis: that we could try to capture, but I think the argument has been it’s probably not that many.
225 00:29:17.680 ⇒ 00:29:18.240 Robert Tseng: Got it.
226 00:29:18.400 ⇒ 00:29:19.700 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, go ahead, Robert.
227 00:29:20.070 ⇒ 00:29:24.520 Robert Tseng: Alright, I was gonna say, it sounds like your bet is more that you’re going after these bigger…
228 00:29:24.760 ⇒ 00:29:26.250 Robert Tseng: Provider groups, or whatever you call.
229 00:29:26.250 ⇒ 00:29:26.940 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
230 00:29:26.940 ⇒ 00:29:29.780 Robert Tseng: It’s more of a B2B play, in which case…
231 00:29:30.070 ⇒ 00:29:41.779 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t… the strategy is totally different. This product analytics focus is really a B2C play, people who are kind of aware of the brand already, finding a digital presence.
232 00:29:41.850 ⇒ 00:29:51.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I’m curious if we can kind of poke around on the B2B side, too, because obviously we do that with some other clients as well.
233 00:29:51.700 ⇒ 00:30:11.460 Kat Gillis: Yeah, definitely. And to your point, I mean, I think now we’re talking about also, like, what is our sales motion, which has been ill-defined up until now, and I’ve pushed, you know, we now have an AE, and she is starting to sort of do outbound on bigger clinics, but it’s a totally foreign motion to the company.
234 00:30:11.460 ⇒ 00:30:12.340 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
235 00:30:12.340 ⇒ 00:30:14.650 Kat Gillis: So… Yeah.
236 00:30:14.650 ⇒ 00:30:15.280 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
237 00:30:15.820 ⇒ 00:30:29.590 Robert Tseng: Okay. Well, yeah, I guess just to kind of tie it all together, so we’ll put together kind of a more, like, digestible brief of these different work streams that we are pitching. Obviously, that sounds like kind of maybe there’s an option for a retainer as well, so, like, we can… we could put that forward.
238 00:30:29.590 ⇒ 00:30:38.619 Robert Tseng: And yeah, I think I’m more interested in kind of the go-to-market strategy. Most of the clients we work with are not category leaders, which is, like, interesting, because…
239 00:30:38.960 ⇒ 00:30:42.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s usually they’re not hitting a target, and.
240 00:30:42.600 ⇒ 00:30:46.870 Kat Gillis: Right, they’re trying, yeah. I mean, it’s super fun when you’re winning, so I’ve been.
241 00:30:46.870 ⇒ 00:30:48.050 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
242 00:30:48.050 ⇒ 00:30:51.900 Kat Gillis: I’m having a great time, but I’m also like, hmm, okay, how do we get to the next level?
243 00:30:51.900 ⇒ 00:30:55.189 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, exactly. This is an opportunity to raise the bar, yeah, exactly.
244 00:30:55.270 ⇒ 00:31:11.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so this is an interesting opportunity for us. We definitely want to put some thought into how we can continue helping you, like, yeah, I mean, you’re already killing it at your job, but we want to make you look even more amazing. So, yeah, we’ll come together with something, and hopefully we can, yeah, we jump on another call if it makes sense.
245 00:31:13.030 ⇒ 00:31:16.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Sounds good, cool, awesome. And I’ll send those things over to you, Cad. Thank you very much.
246 00:31:17.040 ⇒ 00:31:17.650 Kat Gillis: Thank you.
247 00:31:18.300 ⇒ 00:31:20.030 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, take care of. Bye.