Meeting Title: Brainforge Interview w- Amber Date: 2026-03-30 Meeting participants: Abdullah Ahmad, Amber Lin
WEBVTT
1 00:03:38.210 ⇒ 00:03:38.829 Amber Lin: Bye!
2 00:03:40.150 ⇒ 00:03:41.580 Abdullah Ahmad: Hey, Amber, how’s it going?
3 00:03:41.580 ⇒ 00:03:43.329 Amber Lin: Pretty good, how are you doing?
4 00:03:43.500 ⇒ 00:03:49.270 Abdullah Ahmad: Doing good, good. Quite happy today. We finally have a nice sunny day in DC.
5 00:03:49.270 ⇒ 00:03:51.699 Amber Lin: Yeah, where are you at in DC?
6 00:03:51.700 ⇒ 00:03:56.710 Abdullah Ahmad: I am in, Noma. It’s near, Union Market.
7 00:03:57.770 ⇒ 00:04:03.900 Amber Lin: Okay, because my partner’s family’s in DC, they’ve been telling me about the snow, and.
8 00:04:03.900 ⇒ 00:04:06.030 Abdullah Ahmad: Oh, exactly. Okay.
9 00:04:06.030 ⇒ 00:04:09.799 Amber Lin: I was like, I don’t understand, it’s almost summer here for me, I’m in LA, so…
10 00:04:10.620 ⇒ 00:04:13.440 Amber Lin: To comprehend somewhere, it’s still snowing.
11 00:04:13.440 ⇒ 00:04:14.040 Abdullah Ahmad: I know.
12 00:04:14.040 ⇒ 00:04:15.759 Amber Lin: I’m glad there’s good weather.
13 00:04:15.760 ⇒ 00:04:22.289 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, that’s why you get why I’m happy about it, because you’ve heard all of those stories of how Winters has been this year for us.
14 00:04:22.290 ⇒ 00:04:25.349 Amber Lin: How do I say your name?
15 00:04:25.600 ⇒ 00:04:26.590 Abdullah Ahmad: Abdullah.
16 00:04:26.920 ⇒ 00:04:28.970 Amber Lin: Abdullah, nice to meet you. I’m Amber.
17 00:04:28.970 ⇒ 00:04:30.510 Abdullah Ahmad: I appreciate it, yes.
18 00:04:30.510 ⇒ 00:04:32.470 Amber Lin: Cool. So,
19 00:04:32.470 ⇒ 00:04:52.359 Amber Lin: Today’s the first call with us. I know, I think you were referred by Jazz when you probably worked together before. Correct. So this interview is going to be pretty simple. I’m gonna start off with an intro about you and about me, and then I have some questions I want to ask you, and I’ll make sure to leave time at the end for you to ask me questions.
20 00:04:52.360 ⇒ 00:04:54.900 Abdullah Ahmad: Of course, that sounds great, super excited for this.
21 00:04:54.900 ⇒ 00:04:58.240 Amber Lin: Cool, sounds good. Do you want to start off with an intro about yourself?
22 00:04:58.240 ⇒ 00:05:07.830 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, sure. So, as you know, my name’s Abdullah Ahmed, and I am a data and consultancy professional with 7 years’ experience in the field.
23 00:05:08.110 ⇒ 00:05:23.579 Abdullah Ahmad: across North America, the Middle East, and South Asia. My work primarily focuses on helping businesses leverage their data in order to make decisions which are evidence-based, as opposed to on the basis of different biases.
24 00:05:23.670 ⇒ 00:05:37.610 Abdullah Ahmad: My most recent position has been at TikTok, currently was at tech and product, and before that at Trust and Safety, and my role primarily revolved around 3 key areas. Number one was creating AI solutions.
25 00:05:37.640 ⇒ 00:05:46.979 Abdullah Ahmad: For platform safety and security. So imagine, like, using LLM models for training purposes for content moderation against the highest harm topics.
26 00:05:47.250 ⇒ 00:06:00.259 Abdullah Ahmad: Second area that I was working in was, like, creating metrics frameworks in order to measure the performance of these AI systems, as well as program as a whole for the organization and show value. And number three was working
27 00:06:00.380 ⇒ 00:06:05.619 Abdullah Ahmad: And managing relationships with stakeholders, internal and external, for our daily team purposes.
28 00:06:05.780 ⇒ 00:06:14.760 Abdullah Ahmad: Apart from this, I also have a 4-year experience working as a political analyst, but more specifically as a consultancy role within Qatar.
29 00:06:14.870 ⇒ 00:06:24.050 Abdullah Ahmad: And the purpose of this was, like, helping ministries, also leverage their data in order to make decisions, and help them in order to make,
30 00:06:24.270 ⇒ 00:06:34.829 Abdullah Ahmad: write recommendations and create business for the organization as a whole. My education, bachelor’s degree is from Georgetown University in economics, and then
31 00:06:34.950 ⇒ 00:06:53.479 Abdullah Ahmad: building on that at Carnegie Mellon University in data analytics and policy management. While I was at Carnegie Mellon, I also, like, researched at Center for Informed Democracy Social Cybersecurity, which was basically a research center which utilizes AI models in order to find solutions to online harms.
32 00:06:53.700 ⇒ 00:07:12.979 Abdullah Ahmad: My most recent paper, looked at the role of social media in harassment campaigns against the journalists in Iran using AI methods, and that’s essentially what led me to my recruitment at TikTok, essentially. I’m looking for particularly for roles within the space of AI and consultancy.
33 00:07:12.980 ⇒ 00:07:21.080 Abdullah Ahmad: And helping organizations adopt that and offer real value to themselves. And Brainford seems like, right, the perfect intersection for something like that.
34 00:07:21.940 ⇒ 00:07:31.999 Amber Lin: Gotcha. I… I was also curious when I read your resume of what exactly you were looking for, because I know you did a lot of data analysis roles, and then…
35 00:07:32.480 ⇒ 00:07:34.980 Amber Lin: TikTok, you were working on the AI stuff.
36 00:07:34.980 ⇒ 00:07:35.600 Abdullah Ahmad: Interesting.
37 00:07:35.600 ⇒ 00:07:43.669 Amber Lin: For us, we have three branches of… we have the data branches more on the modeling, ingestion, like, the foundational stuff, and then we have
38 00:07:44.140 ⇒ 00:07:48.949 Amber Lin: which is more the analysis work you’ve done, and then there’s the AI team.
39 00:07:49.960 ⇒ 00:07:51.070 Amber Lin: Which one interests you?
40 00:07:51.740 ⇒ 00:07:57.859 Amber Lin: Because I feel like you’ve done a lot of them, and I don’t really know where you would want to go into.
41 00:07:57.860 ⇒ 00:08:01.809 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s a great question, and I… and there’s a…
42 00:08:02.170 ⇒ 00:08:19.990 Abdullah Ahmad: there is, like, reason behind a bit of that madness also, but it makes sense when you look at it linearly. So my introduction into the space was primarily during consultancy, and that’s been one of the most fulfilling work that I’ve actually had, working directly with stakeholders and clients.
43 00:08:19.990 ⇒ 00:08:23.950 Abdullah Ahmad: And actually showing, like, working on real-life problems.
44 00:08:24.170 ⇒ 00:08:27.139 Abdullah Ahmad: And providing solutions which have a tangible impact.
45 00:08:27.220 ⇒ 00:08:47.099 Abdullah Ahmad: When I was working in that consultancy role, it dawned on me very quickly that at the same time, it’s really important to have a technical background, because a lot of products and solutions that we’re offering are on the back of these technological solutions. I could be a consultant and a project manager moving forward, and that could have been a perfectly fine career.
46 00:08:47.100 ⇒ 00:08:58.399 Abdullah Ahmad: But this is, like, where I thought, like, most of the work was focused at, and I personally wanted to build that proficiency in that space, because it makes me a better expert at those consultancy as well.
47 00:08:58.400 ⇒ 00:09:03.759 Abdullah Ahmad: That’s essentially what decided… what made me decide to pursue a more quantitative master’s.
48 00:09:03.760 ⇒ 00:09:20.389 Abdullah Ahmad: Was to be able to build that technical skill set, because a lot of consultancy, when it comes to metrics and performance and the impact you are having, is quantifiable, essentially, to understanding what are the best areas to quantify, and how do you quantify them, and what are you trying to optimize that.
49 00:09:20.460 ⇒ 00:09:26.900 Abdullah Ahmad: Having done that degree at Carnegie Mellon, and then a more technical experience at TikTok, it…
50 00:09:26.900 ⇒ 00:09:42.069 Abdullah Ahmad: puts me in that position where I really wanted to be to return back to consultancy, and working with private sector clients again. Essentially bringing both of my skill sets, not only just in project management and consultancy, but having that additional skill set
51 00:09:42.070 ⇒ 00:09:58.029 Abdullah Ahmad: of data analysis and AI and working with the AI systems as well. So I think I’m at that stage right now of where I was hoping to be, of having those two set of competencies, and which is where I think, like, the world is moving on, especially as you’re trying to, like, integrate more AI into your solutions.
52 00:09:58.030 ⇒ 00:10:03.580 Abdullah Ahmad: And if you’re consulting for that specific area, I feel like it’s extremely important to have, like, a good grasp.
53 00:10:03.580 ⇒ 00:10:05.980 Abdullah Ahmad: On these methods and products as well.
54 00:10:07.140 ⇒ 00:10:16.539 Amber Lin: Cool, sounds good. So, you mentioned the two areas of expertise, so one is more on the consulting side of working with different clients, and two is the technical proficiency.
55 00:10:16.940 ⇒ 00:10:20.759 Amber Lin: I want to ask you more about,
56 00:10:20.880 ⇒ 00:10:36.750 Amber Lin: as it is in a consultancy, how you handle working with clients, how you handle, communication, so… so my next question is, like, if there’s a client, and how would you structure an update to an executive?
57 00:10:37.080 ⇒ 00:10:48.400 Abdullah Ahmad: Okay, yeah, great question. Bread and butter for a consultancy. So, just some context, when I was in Qatar, my primary role as a consultant was specifically for government organizations.
58 00:10:48.400 ⇒ 00:10:57.650 Abdullah Ahmad: So I was consulting for the Amir’s office, which is the administrative office of the King, as well as for the Ministry of Interior, Ministry of Defense, and Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
59 00:10:57.650 ⇒ 00:11:02.879 Abdullah Ahmad: So essentially, all the clients that I was, like, working on were directly high-stakes clients with projects
60 00:11:02.880 ⇒ 00:11:13.949 Abdullah Ahmad: with reasonable impact on, like, the larger security apparatus for the country as a whole. And this was specifically in relation to the country’s readiness for hosting the World Cup 2024.
61 00:11:14.000 ⇒ 00:11:27.840 Abdullah Ahmad: 2022, sorry. And the idea, like, behind that, I think, like, at the end of the day, like, the success of any project actually comes down to that communication that has been, reached between the client and the provider itself.
62 00:11:28.140 ⇒ 00:11:43.509 Abdullah Ahmad: I think communication is, like, the cornerstone on which, like, the project health primarily depends on, and I think it’s extremely important from the beginning to have… to be on the same page in order to make sure that what you’re delivering is essentially in alignment with the client’s requirements.
63 00:11:43.510 ⇒ 00:11:48.359 Abdullah Ahmad: So the most important thing is, like, prior to the project, initiation, it’s…
64 00:11:48.360 ⇒ 00:12:03.989 Abdullah Ahmad: important to work with the clients on agreeing on the scope of work itself, because you can have a contract, but those contract requirements and contract deliverables need to be further synthesized into, like, actual items and deliverables of, like, what you’ll be submitting to the client at a phased
65 00:12:03.990 ⇒ 00:12:18.030 Abdullah Ahmad: Throughout the periodical phases, essentially. So reaching that understanding, what’s the early stage success looks like, middle stage, as well as the final stage deliverable itself, I think a lot of, like, consultants focus on that final stage itself.
66 00:12:18.030 ⇒ 00:12:24.950 Abdullah Ahmad: And not really on reaching that alignment with the clients early on, to understand what are we collectively working towards.
67 00:12:25.020 ⇒ 00:12:33.260 Abdullah Ahmad: Secondly, I think it’s extremely important to have, like, regular periodical communicate… lines of communications with the client itself.
68 00:12:33.270 ⇒ 00:12:48.870 Abdullah Ahmad: So think about it as, like, weekly or bi-weekly updates in order to understand, essentially, what was the scope of the work, what tasks got done in the most recent sprints, how this contributes towards the larger end goal deliverable for the client as a whole.
69 00:12:50.420 ⇒ 00:13:01.940 Amber Lin: So if a client were to say, during your engagement, they were to say, okay, revenue is down, or, like, the most important metric that you’re working on is not great.
70 00:13:02.270 ⇒ 00:13:03.010 Abdullah Ahmad: Amazing.
71 00:13:03.010 ⇒ 00:13:11.879 Amber Lin: onto those type of not-great situations, high pressure of, when the client’s not happy? How would you respond?
72 00:13:11.880 ⇒ 00:13:17.770 Abdullah Ahmad: and I think this is, like, a very common aspect, like, on any consultancy engagement.
73 00:13:18.140 ⇒ 00:13:30.589 Abdullah Ahmad: It is, like, when you’re submitting those periodical updates, the client might seem unhappy, like, with the status of the project itself, or it’s not aligning, like, with what was initially agreed. And I think, like, the first step is.
74 00:13:30.690 ⇒ 00:13:47.210 Abdullah Ahmad: it’s completely normal for a contract to go in that direction, because the client’s need might continue to change moving forward as well, because the new business requirements continue to be. I think the most important thing is, like, to first, like, to have, like, good listening skills.
75 00:13:47.210 ⇒ 00:14:01.030 Abdullah Ahmad: as opposed to fighting back against the new requirements the client is offering, and going back and comparing them to this initial scope of work, I think it’s really important for the future of that relationship to make sure
76 00:14:01.250 ⇒ 00:14:19.530 Abdullah Ahmad: that the client has the ability to communicate that candidly and in detail. Once, like, that has been communicated, there could be two things, right? One could be that these requirements were actually part of the scope of work itself and did not get delivered, and the onus of that falls on the consultancy provider.
77 00:14:19.530 ⇒ 00:14:23.429 Abdullah Ahmad: In that particular case, you let… you assure the client
78 00:14:23.430 ⇒ 00:14:34.080 Abdullah Ahmad: that his understanding of the deficiencies is correct, and the next step is, like, to essentially follow with the internal teams. However, there are also cases where the clients
79 00:14:34.140 ⇒ 00:14:53.389 Abdullah Ahmad: can be proposing new scope as understanding this was part of the initial scope of work or the contract that was agreed. I think for that purposes, it’s important to go work with the contracts team in order to go back and see, like, line by line item, if the new request aligns, with the client’s concern or not.
80 00:14:53.580 ⇒ 00:15:04.849 Abdullah Ahmad: There are two things that you could do at that time. One is, like, limit that criticism by suggesting that this isn’t within the scope of work that was decided, but I also think that these complaints or concerns
81 00:15:04.850 ⇒ 00:15:15.779 Abdullah Ahmad: Actually are an opportunity, because this is exactly where you can let them know this was not part of the initial contract that was agreed, but this is an opportunity or a service that our company can provide as well.
82 00:15:15.850 ⇒ 00:15:23.199 Abdullah Ahmad: So all of this, like, helps in maintaining that relationship as well, and making sure that you’re providing the best value to the customer.
83 00:15:23.220 ⇒ 00:15:36.699 Abdullah Ahmad: And finally, I would look at, like, maybe doing a retro with the client at the last stage of it, in order to understand exactly what went well and what did not. And hopefully, during that life cycle, we have not impacted our relationship as such.
84 00:15:36.700 ⇒ 00:15:51.980 Abdullah Ahmad: Where there’s no future together, and hopefully, like, through these conversations, we’re able to maintain that we’ll continue to provide what was agreed on, but also be more flexible in providing these services for the sake of maintaining that relationship and getting more business.
85 00:15:53.750 ⇒ 00:15:57.169 Amber Lin: Cool, just taking a few notes.
86 00:15:59.490 ⇒ 00:16:01.300 Abdullah Ahmad: Do you mind if I take some notes, too, as I’m talking?
87 00:16:01.300 ⇒ 00:16:02.439 Amber Lin: Yeah, of course.
88 00:16:02.440 ⇒ 00:16:03.020 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah.
89 00:16:07.270 ⇒ 00:16:19.990 Amber Lin: All right, I think my next question is more on the type of work that we’ll do. You mentioned you did a lot of, reporting and making sure… looking at metric design, so…
90 00:16:19.990 ⇒ 00:16:28.629 Amber Lin: What… and from those metrics, how do you decide if an insight is decision-ready for the clients?
91 00:16:31.350 ⇒ 00:16:43.000 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, that’s a good question. And that’s, like, something that we were working most recently within TikTok, along with Jasmine, actually, and this was, like, evaluating the program impact for our detection engineering team.
92 00:16:43.010 ⇒ 00:16:51.739 Abdullah Ahmad: Just very briefly, the context with that job is, like, we created automated detections in order to flag high-harm content, essentially.
93 00:16:51.790 ⇒ 00:17:08.649 Abdullah Ahmad: We can be catching 10,000 users and removing them for high-harm platform, but we need to understand that metric in the context of the larger organization as a whole, and more specifically as the new value that was added as a result of this initiative.
94 00:17:08.650 ⇒ 00:17:18.779 Abdullah Ahmad: So let’s say, like, if I’m working with the clients, the key metrics that I’ll be performing, quite often, like, they end up, like, being a single number about, like, efficiency or improvements or AI adoption.
95 00:17:18.780 ⇒ 00:17:29.859 Abdullah Ahmad: But you need to benchmark that number against a control set, essentially. So basically, what those metrics were before our team or our organization came in to help support that.
96 00:17:29.860 ⇒ 00:17:44.199 Abdullah Ahmad: So, better than just, like, giving a number of, this is the efficiency rate of this new solution that we have adopted has on your organization, the important thing is, like, to compare that to, like, what the numbers were when that solution did not exist.
97 00:17:44.200 ⇒ 00:17:48.890 Abdullah Ahmad: Because that helps us identify what’s the true impact of their organization as a whole.
98 00:17:48.970 ⇒ 00:17:54.110 Abdullah Ahmad: Secondly, like, from my experience, I’ve realized that, it’s…
99 00:17:54.370 ⇒ 00:18:12.320 Abdullah Ahmad: the client or the POC from the client side doesn’t necessarily mean that they have the same technical background as some of the technical folks who are measuring these metrics on the organization side. So at the end of the day, you need to provide the bottom line impact. You don’t need to… even though from our side, in measuring impact.
100 00:18:12.320 ⇒ 00:18:21.839 Abdullah Ahmad: We’ll be doing statistical tests, like chi-square tests or p-test, trying to find, like, different proportions as a result of this change, and measuring p-values.
101 00:18:21.840 ⇒ 00:18:40.440 Abdullah Ahmad: all of that work is essentially for us to make sure that what we are doing is translating into an impact, which is statistically significant, but at the end of the day, to the client, what you need to provide is something at a higher level of exact impact that has been shown. So I’d rather more in the
102 00:18:40.440 ⇒ 00:18:43.020 Abdullah Ahmad: Ways of, like, these are the improvement metrics.
103 00:18:43.020 ⇒ 00:18:57.760 Abdullah Ahmad: as opposed to the performance metrics of the platform itself. I try to stay heavy on the visualization side, just because I’ve noticed they tend to resonate better, particularly with the full client team, which can have, like, technical and non-technical folks in them.
104 00:18:59.550 ⇒ 00:19:10.630 Amber Lin: Cool, sounds good. So I think the next thing I wanted to ask about was more on, how ownership looked like in your past roles.
105 00:19:10.630 ⇒ 00:19:11.130 Abdullah Ahmad: So, first…
106 00:19:11.130 ⇒ 00:19:24.620 Amber Lin: I kind of want to understand, what was the task assignment like? Did you have a director or manager that assigned to work? Were you managing anyone, or how did it look like in terms of response?
107 00:19:24.620 ⇒ 00:19:36.430 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, at the most recent job, at least, and to be honest, across, like, all my jobs, technically, sure, you will have, like, a team with a manager and a team lead itself.
108 00:19:36.770 ⇒ 00:19:54.809 Abdullah Ahmad: The role of manager, however, in the roles that I have been, and I feel like I’ve been lucky, has primarily been, communication between the work the team is doing with the higher leadership. And it hasn’t been a micromanaging role, like, where the tasks are synthesized down to individual team members.
109 00:19:54.810 ⇒ 00:20:01.099 Abdullah Ahmad: I think I’ve been very lucky in that aspect, that I’ve always had, like, ownership of the work that I have been doing.
110 00:20:01.100 ⇒ 00:20:16.630 Abdullah Ahmad: So it really allows me to really get into it, and I like having that flexibility and that freedom to not only just do the completing the tickets which are assigned to us, but actually be thinking more dynamically and more holistically in terms of, like, this is the task.
111 00:20:16.630 ⇒ 00:20:26.749 Abdullah Ahmad: But what are the other accompanying tasks? Like, if we solve that, does not only solve this problem by itself, but adds a new value proposition to what we’re actually offering.
112 00:20:26.760 ⇒ 00:20:43.779 Abdullah Ahmad: So my work style is very focused on, like, first off, like, synthesizing, understanding exactly what the problem itself is that we’re trying to solve. A client can say that we want to increase revenue, but that idea can change a lot depending on what sort of a business you have.
113 00:20:43.780 ⇒ 00:21:01.289 Abdullah Ahmad: For example, if it’s a subscription-based business, you’re trying to optimize for the volume of subscribers, essentially. If it’s a big contract business, you’re not trying to optimize for the volume itself, but you’re trying to optimize for the holistic value of that contract itself, right?
114 00:21:01.330 ⇒ 00:21:05.089 Abdullah Ahmad: So for me, like, my focus primarily always has been.
115 00:21:05.090 ⇒ 00:21:27.630 Abdullah Ahmad: On any project that I’m working on is to look beyond the scope of that limited project itself, but also see what the main problem the client is trying to solve, and what more can we really offer that really helps solve that problem holistically, because the client can have a bottom line of what they want to see, not necessarily of exactly the task that they’re wanting to do.
116 00:21:27.660 ⇒ 00:21:33.899 Abdullah Ahmad: And my work style, I understand people work on these areas different ways, some people…
117 00:21:33.950 ⇒ 00:21:46.170 Abdullah Ahmad: try to have, like, the full scope of this and do everything and manage different aspects of it. My focus primarily always has been on leveraging cross-functional partners. I think the value that the organization offers
118 00:21:46.280 ⇒ 00:21:53.959 Abdullah Ahmad: comes down to the holistic value of the different skill sets that live in the organization itself. And it’s, like, maybe some…
119 00:21:54.250 ⇒ 00:22:13.339 Abdullah Ahmad: position of being humble that I think we all need to admit that we’re not experts at every single thing an organization does. And I think the true value comes by building those relationships across the organizations, and understanding which team does what, and pulling them in so they can provide the best possible work.
120 00:22:13.420 ⇒ 00:22:24.399 Amber Lin: Gotcha. So what type of partners do you work with, and are you in parallel with them, or did you have, say, team members you would assign work to? What did it look like?
121 00:22:24.630 ⇒ 00:22:39.839 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, so that’s sort of, like, really differed across organizations. At TikTok, for example, and what I like about their structure is, like, the flexibility itself. So even, let’s say, like, the internal communication system we use does not have any members
122 00:22:40.100 ⇒ 00:22:53.400 Abdullah Ahmad: designation or position, because the idea is that everyone should be able to talk to everyone about anything and seek help without that layer of, like, oh, I cannot approach this person because he’s a superior or this, right?
123 00:22:53.400 ⇒ 00:23:04.870 Abdullah Ahmad: My idea always is, like, to start off, like, with a project, framework of exactly what the goal is and how are we going to get there. Even though,
124 00:23:04.910 ⇒ 00:23:24.339 Abdullah Ahmad: each of our team members works on a very specific vertical itself, we have that flexibility of pulling them in based on their skill sets, as well as, like, pulling in other team members. So, for example, if I’m doing a project, let’s say when I was, like, working on… I was a lead data analyst for the 2024 U.S. elections.
125 00:23:24.340 ⇒ 00:23:32.969 Abdullah Ahmad: And I was, like, reporting directly to the head of trust and safety for the American market, as well as the USDS CEO. So at that time.
126 00:23:32.990 ⇒ 00:23:40.230 Abdullah Ahmad: I was providing them, like, daily trends and understanding of, like, what violations look like across election topics.
127 00:23:40.260 ⇒ 00:23:59.729 Abdullah Ahmad: But for me, it was really important to pull in the escalation response team as well, because they work directly with the law enforcement, the policy team, because they decide, essentially, like, what needs to be implemented, and then finally, the validations team, which works as QA agents for us.
128 00:23:59.800 ⇒ 00:24:11.970 Abdullah Ahmad: So it depends, so let’s say, like, when I’m working with the policy, I’m working with them on a consultancy. I’m requesting information from them, synthesizing my data, and providing them response back.
129 00:24:11.970 ⇒ 00:24:28.839 Abdullah Ahmad: In the same project, when I was, like, working with the QA, or the escalation team, I was directly feeding them tasks, essentially, because I needed validity check for the data that I’m analyzing, I need for them to manually moderate it, so essentially creating tickets, the full scope of the work.
130 00:24:28.840 ⇒ 00:24:36.649 Abdullah Ahmad: Providing SLAs of when this needs to be done by, the priority level of that specific task itself.
131 00:24:36.870 ⇒ 00:24:43.819 Abdullah Ahmad: In order to make sure that from our side, the requirements are communicated as accurately and as transparently as possible.
132 00:24:44.120 ⇒ 00:24:57.429 Abdullah Ahmad: For example, if I’m working with Jasmine, if I know Jasmine is an expert in sales of regulated goods, and I’m working on some of these detections, which encompass that as well, then I know… then I’ll cut a ticket for Jasmine. First off, like, get her buy-in into this.
133 00:24:57.620 ⇒ 00:25:10.880 Abdullah Ahmad: work with her, and once that buy-in is reached, then start cutting tickets, because I might understand the exact job task better than someone that I’m pulling into, so the onus or the responsibility for that falls on me.
134 00:25:12.170 ⇒ 00:25:21.529 Amber Lin: Cool. Sounds good. I was also very curious when you mentioned your work style of thinking, what’s beyond this that the client just asked.
135 00:25:21.710 ⇒ 00:25:27.829 Amber Lin: How do you approach those tasks that was not on the roadmap? If you thought about something that might be helpful.
136 00:25:28.790 ⇒ 00:25:34.569 Amber Lin: How do you bring that into the workstream? How do you communicate with the clients, or how do you get.
137 00:25:34.570 ⇒ 00:25:35.210 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah.
138 00:25:35.210 ⇒ 00:25:35.610 Amber Lin: approved.
139 00:25:35.610 ⇒ 00:25:36.010 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah.
140 00:25:36.010 ⇒ 00:25:38.030 Amber Lin: Tell me about that.
141 00:25:38.030 ⇒ 00:25:53.309 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, that’s a good question, and I think, from, like, what I’ve been, like, researching about your company as well, I do think this could be, like, one of, like, the bigger… correct me if I’m wrong, the bigger challenges, which is, if you’re providing integration of AI solutions.
142 00:25:53.550 ⇒ 00:26:06.629 Abdullah Ahmad: it’s a big buzzword right now, and all the companies do want a buy-in into that in order to improve efficiency and, like, reduce, like, blockers for their work, right? They might want integration of AI solutions, but…
143 00:26:07.080 ⇒ 00:26:19.299 Abdullah Ahmad: the data that they’re using might not be the cleanest of data, or the most integrated into, like, a format, like, which actually gives value, right? So you have to go tell them that before you could do this, you actually need
144 00:26:19.300 ⇒ 00:26:27.959 Abdullah Ahmad: you have a bigger task at hand, like, which is, like, making sure that your data is, like, ready for RAG implementation purposes. And I think, like, this is something…
145 00:26:28.350 ⇒ 00:26:40.990 Abdullah Ahmad: It needs to be communicated in a way where the client can see how this other task is just as important, if not more, for the task for which they have hired you.
146 00:26:41.070 ⇒ 00:26:57.540 Abdullah Ahmad: So, for example, you can let them know that, of course, as a business, if you want us, like, to build an AI pipeline, for internal querying, and you already have the data, we can pro… we can create that, and that’s, like, a solution, and that will complete our,
147 00:26:57.540 ⇒ 00:27:02.889 Abdullah Ahmad: commitment to you. But at the end of the day, what the organization values is
148 00:27:03.050 ⇒ 00:27:06.430 Abdullah Ahmad: Producing the best possible work for the client itself.
149 00:27:06.620 ⇒ 00:27:14.780 Abdullah Ahmad: So you communicate that to them, that at a current state, if we did this particular contract itself and these tasks.
150 00:27:14.810 ⇒ 00:27:22.709 Abdullah Ahmad: This is the final output that you will see. This is, like, how it will improve from the current system where you have with no AI products right now.
151 00:27:22.710 ⇒ 00:27:41.790 Abdullah Ahmad: However, it’s also important to highlight what the residual risks are, and what the current gaps would be even after delivery of that solution. And you align with that, and most clients will at that point say, like, no, but we actually want this, this, this as well, as a capability of the solution that you’re providing. And this is the opportunity where you
152 00:27:41.790 ⇒ 00:28:00.469 Abdullah Ahmad: plug in those extra services, essentially, to let them know that we can offer this solution, and this is what it’ll cost, and this would be the scope of the work, but if you’re actually trying to solve this problem, and this is the biggest bottleneck for you, what you actually need is this along with this, or maybe not this, and that.
153 00:28:00.470 ⇒ 00:28:14.599 Abdullah Ahmad: And I think, like, with clients, it actually shows better goodwill when you are able to give them better solutions, like, in the light of a contract that you have. I think it resonates more with them because they see you as someone who’s actually really offering value.
154 00:28:14.710 ⇒ 00:28:27.390 Abdullah Ahmad: For the organization and their output goals, as opposed to someone who’s just coming in, do the contract, do the, like, the… complete the scope of work, and then just head out. I think it’s better for a long-term engagement with them.
155 00:28:28.040 ⇒ 00:28:42.560 Amber Lin: Sounds good. My last question, not really related to work, so my question is, so is there something outside of work that you stuck with for multiple years, or, like, something if you didn’t have to work, what would you do?
156 00:28:42.850 ⇒ 00:28:45.849 Abdullah Ahmad: Sorry, I think I did not get that properly.
157 00:28:45.850 ⇒ 00:28:51.370 Amber Lin: Yeah, yeah, so this is more of, like, what do you like to do outside of work? What have you done.
158 00:28:51.740 ⇒ 00:28:52.510 Abdullah Ahmad: Mmm, sticking with me.
159 00:28:52.510 ⇒ 00:28:55.300 Amber Lin: with for multiple years, like, what’s your passion?
160 00:28:55.300 ⇒ 00:29:02.859 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, that’s a good question. I was not anticipating that, and I don’t know if this is the answer you’re looking for, but I…
161 00:29:03.100 ⇒ 00:29:04.240 Abdullah Ahmad: love…
162 00:29:04.510 ⇒ 00:29:18.760 Abdullah Ahmad: backpacking and climbing, and this is, like, something I’ve been doing since my undergrad, when I was a poor student with no salary, so that’s how this way of traveling came out to be. Backpacking quickly turned into
163 00:29:18.810 ⇒ 00:29:31.579 Abdullah Ahmad: Hiking and climbing. So, I love that. I have done a few circuits. I’ve done the Everest Base Camp track as well, and I’ve done, like, Siripada in Nepal… in Sri Lanka.
164 00:29:31.870 ⇒ 00:29:41.559 Abdullah Ahmad: And most recently, like, now I’ve transitioned from trekking into climbing, so… and I think this is, like, what US really offered. They have so many bouldering gyms.
165 00:29:41.950 ⇒ 00:30:00.009 Abdullah Ahmad: and bouldering locations, so this is, like, something, like, has been my passion, like, so anything at the end of the day that can get me outside the house, anything that’s outdoors, like, I’m big on that. My partner and I, we recently picked up sculpting also. What’s that? Sculpting, so, like, you know, like…
166 00:30:00.510 ⇒ 00:30:09.969 Abdullah Ahmad: like, clay models. So this is, like, something that I used to do a lot, like, during school, my middle school, but there was a big break that came out to be.
167 00:30:09.970 ⇒ 00:30:10.360 Amber Lin: Huh.
168 00:30:10.470 ⇒ 00:30:28.969 Abdullah Ahmad: And this is, like, something that we’re both actively trying to, like, get at, because we both… she’s a lawyer, and I’m, like, I was a tech, so both of us, like, suffered from this, where we never really have time for ourselves on a daily basis. So we’ve decided that, like, every other day, like, we put out an hour aside.
169 00:30:28.970 ⇒ 00:30:36.160 Abdullah Ahmad: And we love sculpting together. I like to think we’re getting better, I don’t know yet, but I’m hoping we continue to get better.
170 00:30:36.160 ⇒ 00:30:44.380 Amber Lin: I mean, yeah, it’s… I also try to do that, especially when you work remote. You don’t even need to go outside of the house.
171 00:30:44.380 ⇒ 00:30:45.370 Abdullah Ahmad: So true.
172 00:30:45.370 ⇒ 00:30:48.180 Amber Lin: So, like, that will be very important.
173 00:30:48.180 ⇒ 00:30:49.350 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
174 00:30:49.920 ⇒ 00:31:04.409 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, I… every day, I need some time. I’m really a people’s person, and, like, quite extroverted, but, like, my battery also, like, runs out, like, when it does, and I need every day, like, 2 hours or more just me.
175 00:31:04.410 ⇒ 00:31:04.860 Amber Lin: Right.
176 00:31:05.310 ⇒ 00:31:08.609 Abdullah Ahmad: And blank fun things by myself, you know? So that’s…
177 00:31:08.610 ⇒ 00:31:09.760 Amber Lin: Really cool.
178 00:31:09.760 ⇒ 00:31:11.360 Abdullah Ahmad: Yeah, I appreciate that.
179 00:31:11.360 ⇒ 00:31:22.999 Amber Lin: Sorry, I was very curious, so I took up more time than I expected, so I have another, say, 5-10 minutes if you have questions for me, I would love to answer them.
180 00:31:23.000 ⇒ 00:31:37.209 Abdullah Ahmad: Oh, sure, sure, sure. I mean, I really enjoyed this interview also, like, I wasn’t sure, like, what kind it would be, but, like, this has been a very enjoyable experience, honestly. But yeah, talking about the organization itself, like, I know it’s, like, not…
181 00:31:37.210 ⇒ 00:31:45.190 Abdullah Ahmad: really a startup, but I know the organization is in an early nascent stage, right? I’ve talked to Jasmine about it, and I understand it as well.
182 00:31:45.190 ⇒ 00:32:01.770 Abdullah Ahmad: Maybe, like, just to understand, like, my fit with the role itself. I was, like, trying to, like, understand what are the major bottlenecks at this stage of your company’s life cycle that you guys are experiencing, and particularly in this role itself.
183 00:32:01.890 ⇒ 00:32:03.570 Abdullah Ahmad: And, essentially.
184 00:32:03.810 ⇒ 00:32:21.489 Abdullah Ahmad: What are the skill sets that you’re trying to look for? I’m trying to get at the question that, are you guys looking for rather generalists who are able to perform a lot of tasks, like, well, or very specialist, in very particular areas of AI and consultancy specifically?
185 00:32:21.960 ⇒ 00:32:24.820 Amber Lin: Gotcha. I think there’s kind of two questions.
186 00:32:24.820 ⇒ 00:32:25.860 Abdullah Ahmad: Yes, correct.
187 00:32:25.860 ⇒ 00:32:43.039 Amber Lin: Correct, yeah. So, in terms of bottleneck, I think we’ve grown significantly in the past year that I’ve been here. And, you know, Jasmine just came on, so she must have told you a little bit about how things work. So, we’re still growing our strategy branch.
188 00:32:43.130 ⇒ 00:33:00.460 Amber Lin: And the AI branch is getting more clients, so I think right now, the main bottleneck is having people to own the client relationship. Because before, it was mostly our two CEOs owning the relationship with clients. Before, when we’re.
189 00:33:00.460 ⇒ 00:33:01.140 Abdullah Ahmad: moment.
190 00:33:01.440 ⇒ 00:33:13.810 Amber Lin: But now, we have the people that can execute, and do the work, but the relationship with the clients needs specialized care and people with experience.
191 00:33:13.820 ⇒ 00:33:30.340 Amber Lin: to take care of that, so that’s partly what we’re looking for right now. With Jasmine coming on, it is really helpful to have her, kind of, be the person that we ask about, technical questions, but we’re always
192 00:33:30.570 ⇒ 00:33:45.170 Amber Lin: I think the gap right now, they are looking… we’re looking for a more senior, like, data person that can also handle the client relationships, which I think, based on what you’ve described, it’s… is a good fit.
193 00:33:45.510 ⇒ 00:33:53.640 Amber Lin: I think that’s the major bottleneck of what we’re looking for. And I think in terms of generalists and specialists.
194 00:33:56.190 ⇒ 00:34:11.649 Amber Lin: I don’t think we have too many people that’s very, very specialized. We have one person that’s more on the data side that he specializes in tracking, for, say, marketing and stuff, so…
195 00:34:12.370 ⇒ 00:34:16.079 Amber Lin: I would say, if there… if there is a special list.
196 00:34:16.420 ⇒ 00:34:21.220 Amber Lin: That can be… that introduces, say, like, a specific service line.
197 00:34:21.440 ⇒ 00:34:25.689 Amber Lin: There would need to be enough clients that need that service to justify.
198 00:34:25.690 ⇒ 00:34:26.260 Abdullah Ahmad: I see.
199 00:34:26.260 ⇒ 00:34:39.800 Amber Lin: that person full-time. As we grow more, we’ll have more space for specialists, but right now, I think we do need people who can take on different type of client projects as they come on.
200 00:34:39.800 ⇒ 00:34:59.050 Abdullah Ahmad: I see. Okay, that makes sense also, and I think it’s, like, very in alignment with my experience also, because somehow, a lot of, like, my work position, like, my career options, like, have turned out to be with startups. Even when I was, like, working at TikTok, TikTok is not a startup, but we were working specifically for TikTok USDS.
201 00:34:59.050 ⇒ 00:35:05.579 Abdullah Ahmad: Which is, like, a carved-out part, a way out of, like, the rest of the TikTok, and it operates as its own organization.
202 00:35:05.580 ⇒ 00:35:11.379 Abdullah Ahmad: So when I joined them, that was a startup. Before that, when I was at the School of Data Science and Society.
203 00:35:11.380 ⇒ 00:35:28.030 Abdullah Ahmad: That school, like, literally started, like, when I joined them a year before that, and when I was, like, consulting in Qatar as well, that particular position also was… I was, like, the seventh person to join the team, and now it’s, like, a multi-million dollar, company itself.
204 00:35:28.210 ⇒ 00:35:47.980 Abdullah Ahmad: And I saw something very similar there, that at this early nascent stage of the life cycle, essentially you’re trying to get, like, extremely competent generalists, who… because, like, there’s no clear distinction always between tasks, as I can imagine, right? Sometimes a lot of people are doing a lot of things just because that’s how resources are constrained.
205 00:35:47.980 ⇒ 00:35:52.550 Abdullah Ahmad: And I like the fact that I like that nature of work as well.
206 00:35:52.550 ⇒ 00:36:08.590 Abdullah Ahmad: because something that’s able to keep me excited is, like, the one also, like, where I perform the best as well. And quite often, when you’re not just doing the same thing on a daily basis, and the work is more dynamic, it also makes it more interesting and a bit more,
207 00:36:08.590 ⇒ 00:36:13.270 Abdullah Ahmad: Relevant also, like, to align, like, with your intellectual, ideals as well.
208 00:36:13.310 ⇒ 00:36:18.660 Abdullah Ahmad: So that seems alignment… in alignment with what I’m looking for as well. Cool. That works, yeah.
209 00:36:18.660 ⇒ 00:36:20.539 Amber Lin: Any other questions?
210 00:36:21.290 ⇒ 00:36:35.039 Abdullah Ahmad: No, I think those were the two main ones, and, like, you guys answered that. I have, like, other, like, things like the remote work and things like that, but I think, like, I was able to get them answered in my first, interview with the hiring… with the HR person.
211 00:36:35.310 ⇒ 00:36:35.860 Amber Lin: Yeah.
212 00:36:36.020 ⇒ 00:36:37.380 Abdullah Ahmad: Correct, yeah, yeah.
213 00:36:37.610 ⇒ 00:36:53.799 Amber Lin: Awesome. Okay, so thank you so much for coming to this call today. I think Kayla or the team will reach out to you in the next week or two, no matter what the decision is. And you also have Jasmine, who’s inside, and you have me to reach out to if you need anything.
214 00:36:54.080 ⇒ 00:37:03.450 Abdullah Ahmad: Amazing. That’s great. Thank you so much, really appreciate it. Alright. I will point out one thing. I was, like, talking to Kayla as well, and I had, like, a similar question with her about, like, the requirements.
215 00:37:03.710 ⇒ 00:37:09.180 Abdullah Ahmad: So I know, like, she was, like, hiring for, some data positions as well.
216 00:37:09.410 ⇒ 00:37:22.790 Abdullah Ahmad: So I’m able to, like, definitely… able to help with her, just because I… I’m in contact with the career services at Carnegie Mellon, and that might be a good source for you guys, like, to get, like, some of the individuals as well.
217 00:37:22.790 ⇒ 00:37:36.179 Abdullah Ahmad: So I definitely shared that with them, but of course, like, if you guys have, like, something else, and hopefully this process moves forward, any help that I can offer, like, before I join, like, I’d rather join, like, full speed ahead. So let me know.
218 00:37:36.580 ⇒ 00:37:43.190 Amber Lin: I appreciate it. I remember, I think… I think I was next to her when you guys finished calling, or she did tell me about.
219 00:37:43.190 ⇒ 00:37:43.720 Abdullah Ahmad: Good point.
220 00:37:43.720 ⇒ 00:37:46.410 Amber Lin: what you just said, so I find that really cool.
221 00:37:46.410 ⇒ 00:37:52.290 Abdullah Ahmad: Okay, amazing, amazing, amazing. Perfect, but I hope to talk to you soon, and hope this process worried.
222 00:37:52.290 ⇒ 00:37:55.350 Amber Lin: Yeah, thank you, and have a good rest of your day.
223 00:37:55.350 ⇒ 00:37:56.490 Abdullah Ahmad: You too, have a good one.
224 00:37:56.490 ⇒ 00:37:57.639 Amber Lin: Great, bye.