Meeting Title: Eden AI Project Check-in Date: 2026-03-25 Meeting participants: Pranav Narahari, Uttam Kumaran, Greg Stoutenburg
WEBVTT
1 00:00:35.650 ⇒ 00:00:36.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yo.
2 00:00:39.980 ⇒ 00:00:41.799 Pranav Narahari: Yo, yo, how’s it going?
3 00:00:53.790 ⇒ 00:00:54.890 Pranav Narahari: Yo.
4 00:00:57.300 ⇒ 00:00:58.209 Pranav Narahari: Can you hear me?
5 00:01:25.210 ⇒ 00:01:26.510 Uttam Kumaran: Can you hear me now?
6 00:01:26.970 ⇒ 00:01:28.150 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I can hear you.
7 00:01:28.150 ⇒ 00:01:29.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
8 00:01:29.420 ⇒ 00:01:30.030 Pranav Narahari: Nice.
9 00:01:32.200 ⇒ 00:01:33.320 Uttam Kumaran: Alright.
10 00:01:34.120 ⇒ 00:01:36.380 Uttam Kumaran: Tell me, how was the day?
11 00:01:37.650 ⇒ 00:01:40.980 Pranav Narahari: I mean, so…
12 00:01:41.870 ⇒ 00:01:52.810 Pranav Narahari: The project plan for Eden, the technical approach was still not completed. I had an early morning call with Sam and Awash to just kind of discuss
13 00:01:53.120 ⇒ 00:02:02.359 Pranav Narahari: I kind of saw that there would be a little bit of confusion, you know, or at least I just anticipated it a little bit, you know. I was confused a little bit in the beginning, so… makes sense that it’s not gonna be…
14 00:02:02.510 ⇒ 00:02:07.900 Pranav Narahari: just super understandable up front. However…
15 00:02:08.530 ⇒ 00:02:11.909 Pranav Narahari: after we feel… I feel like everything was figured out.
16 00:02:12.090 ⇒ 00:02:15.760 Pranav Narahari: it still just didn’t get done? Yeah.
17 00:02:15.870 ⇒ 00:02:21.730 Pranav Narahari: you know, people already set up their week, but I think it’s just, like, about making this a priority. It’s just kind of the…
18 00:02:22.430 ⇒ 00:02:24.199 Pranav Narahari: It’s just a difference, and…
19 00:02:24.200 ⇒ 00:02:24.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
20 00:02:24.840 ⇒ 00:02:36.329 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, that’s just the thing that I noticed. I feel like I… I did what I needed to do on, like, pushing it, you know? It’s like a little bit of a different muscle than I’m doing right now, which is, like.
21 00:02:36.330 ⇒ 00:02:36.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
22 00:02:36.820 ⇒ 00:02:43.380 Pranav Narahari: Managing versus, like, doing, you know, like… So…
23 00:02:43.860 ⇒ 00:02:53.669 Pranav Narahari: Like, I couldn’t… like, I’m… I’m not the… and this is a couple things, like, I feel like I was getting questions about, like, okay, how would you technically implement it? And I would give my, like.
24 00:02:54.000 ⇒ 00:03:13.610 Pranav Narahari: give my feedback on it, but then I’m like, I want you to answer this, you know? I want you guys to be the ones to, like, give the technical implementation, and I will just give you the product requirements. This is what the customer needs to be able to do with the system that we would… that we build. How we build it is…
25 00:03:13.840 ⇒ 00:03:21.300 Pranav Narahari: that’s something that you guys need to figure out based on other requirements that I have, like, okay, these are the certain milestones, we need to have this done by this day.
26 00:03:21.300 ⇒ 00:03:21.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
27 00:03:21.760 ⇒ 00:03:39.479 Pranav Narahari: And this is the timeline on it, and this is the amount of resourcing that we have on it. So, those are kind of the guardrails that I keep, but I don’t want to add additional guardrails of, like, okay, this is how it should be technically implemented. That doesn’t seem like the right… then I’m not doing the right job of being a CSO. That’s an SL type of hat to wear.
28 00:03:39.950 ⇒ 00:03:47.469 Uttam Kumaran: I’m surprised. Okay, so then two things. I mean, I think you’ve escalated enough, so what I’m gonna do is I’ll send a message to both of them saying.
29 00:03:48.490 ⇒ 00:03:50.990 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, this was not done on time.
30 00:03:51.550 ⇒ 00:03:53.550 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what’s going on?
31 00:03:54.830 ⇒ 00:04:05.339 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and I think so, Awash already kind of communicated, and communicated with Sam too, saying that, like, the data piece part is figured out, like, and I agree with that. I think…
32 00:04:05.810 ⇒ 00:04:10.199 Pranav Narahari: The approach, honestly, to me, is figured out, it just didn’t get written down, for whatever reason.
33 00:04:10.550 ⇒ 00:04:15.709 Uttam Kumaran: Well, like, I saw that… I saw that he… that Sam shipped something to the platform.
34 00:04:15.820 ⇒ 00:04:23.689 Uttam Kumaran: like, an hour or two ago, but, like, he maybe didn’t communicate it with you. Either way, like, not fast enough.
35 00:04:24.180 ⇒ 00:04:24.640 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
36 00:04:24.640 ⇒ 00:04:29.290 Uttam Kumaran: like… So… one thing that I’m going to…
37 00:04:31.140 ⇒ 00:04:32.950 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m gonna send a note.
38 00:04:33.050 ⇒ 00:04:36.739 Uttam Kumaran: Basically, trying to make this a little bit, like, crystal clear.
39 00:04:42.180 ⇒ 00:04:46.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m gonna… I’m gonna… I’m gonna write a note making sure that this is just, like.
40 00:04:47.490 ⇒ 00:04:52.860 Uttam Kumaran: crystal clear, that the service leads need to be providing this feedback. I think
41 00:04:53.040 ⇒ 00:05:05.930 Uttam Kumaran: Greg had a similar piece of feedback for default, like, I don’t think he’s getting the love he needs to push that over the line. Yeah. So, it’s the first week. I feel like
42 00:05:06.640 ⇒ 00:05:16.569 Uttam Kumaran: I think you guys pushed, like, like, as hard as you can, so I think that’s fine. I can fill in the gaps, but I’m gonna give… I’m gonna give them some feedback saying, like, this…
43 00:05:16.800 ⇒ 00:05:24.770 Uttam Kumaran: needed to happen. It’s 3 days, like, we are not moving fast enough. I mean, to be quite honest, I don’t know how this doesn’t take
44 00:05:24.970 ⇒ 00:05:27.660 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know how this takes more than, like, an hour or two.
45 00:05:28.480 ⇒ 00:05:31.800 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m gonna get to… I’ll get to the bottom of it.
46 00:05:32.340 ⇒ 00:05:35.369 Uttam Kumaran: so, that’s on me.
47 00:05:36.350 ⇒ 00:05:41.679 Pranav Narahari: Okay, yeah, and then in terms of, like, aside from project plan, just, like…
48 00:05:41.820 ⇒ 00:05:45.320 Pranav Narahari: day-to-day, like, I guess for, like, ABC. Yeah.
49 00:05:47.110 ⇒ 00:05:48.290 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I…
50 00:05:50.110 ⇒ 00:05:54.770 Uttam Kumaran: It looks like shit is just not, like, working, like… I don’t understand.
51 00:05:55.260 ⇒ 00:05:58.720 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, there’s a… well, so today was,
52 00:05:59.300 ⇒ 00:06:09.949 Pranav Narahari: like, specific QA testing, I just had a call with Janiece and Yvette, and the things that they’re bringing up, which, I mean, they are bugs, to be… to be fair.
53 00:06:09.950 ⇒ 00:06:10.540 Uttam Kumaran: Sure.
54 00:06:10.720 ⇒ 00:06:13.620 Pranav Narahari: But at the same time, like.
55 00:06:14.010 ⇒ 00:06:25.439 Pranav Narahari: they’re… they are, like, very much stress testing this in a way where it’s not gonna be utilized, at least in the next, like, few months. So I’m not worried about things being on fire for the next few months.
56 00:06:25.440 ⇒ 00:06:26.080 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
57 00:06:26.260 ⇒ 00:06:30.600 Pranav Narahari: Now, at the same time, though, like…
58 00:06:30.980 ⇒ 00:06:38.289 Pranav Narahari: I guess I am getting direct comms about… I just feel like I’m kind of still orchestrating with, like, Casey and Mustafa a little bit.
59 00:06:38.530 ⇒ 00:06:39.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
60 00:06:39.090 ⇒ 00:06:45.589 Pranav Narahari: I think there needs to be clear handoff of just, like, hey, client is saying this, Sam, this is the information.
61 00:06:45.790 ⇒ 00:06:46.960 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey guys, can you hear me?
62 00:06:48.370 ⇒ 00:06:49.410 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, I can hear you.
63 00:06:49.410 ⇒ 00:06:52.189 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, there we go. Cool. Alright, finally in.
64 00:06:53.050 ⇒ 00:06:54.040 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
65 00:06:54.040 ⇒ 00:06:54.550 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I can’t.
66 00:06:54.550 ⇒ 00:06:56.019 Pranav Narahari: It makes me a little bit clearer.
67 00:06:56.020 ⇒ 00:07:01.139 Uttam Kumaran: I hear you on that. So I think… I think on… I think that needs to happen across the board.
68 00:07:01.140 ⇒ 00:07:01.630 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
69 00:07:01.630 ⇒ 00:07:03.999 Uttam Kumaran: I also think, like.
70 00:07:04.330 ⇒ 00:07:16.520 Uttam Kumaran: For example, like, Demi isn’t involved on the, like, Element project right now, and I don’t think Sam… I think Sam, out of everybody, is struggling the most.
71 00:07:16.970 ⇒ 00:07:20.460 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t see him…
72 00:07:20.750 ⇒ 00:07:28.369 Uttam Kumaran: like, proactively getting any of the… his project plans done, or managing Casey or Mustafa.
73 00:07:28.580 ⇒ 00:07:39.129 Uttam Kumaran: or basically doing anything outside of that, like, he’s not helping me on anything platform, so I’m like, just, like, don’t… like, and I assume he’s not doing anything with you on the Eden AI stuff?
74 00:07:40.310 ⇒ 00:07:46.799 Pranav Narahari: Mmm, just the project plan, like, technical implementation part, but yeah, no actual… yeah.
75 00:07:47.010 ⇒ 00:07:51.440 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so yeah, I mean, I think I owe him a conversation, because I just don’t know where…
76 00:07:51.490 ⇒ 00:08:03.349 Uttam Kumaran: this time is going, and this has taken, like, way too long. I… I do… I did… I did want to give all the service leads a shot, and I… and I think, like, we’ve… I’ve done that as much as I can.
77 00:08:03.350 ⇒ 00:08:12.749 Uttam Kumaran: So I can help get stuff over the line so that we have project plans, but I’ll make it really clear to each of them, sort of, like, what their expectations are.
78 00:08:12.840 ⇒ 00:08:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: One way that we’re planning on doing this is… is I’m gonna, work… I’m working with Kayla to basically set up one-on-ones, again, with… with every single, sort of, project. Like, anybody who has a lead role.
79 00:08:27.090 ⇒ 00:08:38.259 Uttam Kumaran: And so we’ll go through, like, kind of formally, like, the expectations, the standards, like, the… like, I’m putting together a bonus structure, and then that way.
80 00:08:38.530 ⇒ 00:08:42.140 Uttam Kumaran: it’s, like, crystal, crystal clear.
81 00:08:42.580 ⇒ 00:08:52.049 Uttam Kumaran: what the expectations are on both sides. I mean, I think I’m impressed, like, you both of you guys are taking on and pushing it, which is good. I think my feedback is, like.
82 00:08:52.610 ⇒ 00:08:57.800 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like just continue to do that. I know it may feel, like, a little bit different than…
83 00:08:57.900 ⇒ 00:09:08.630 Uttam Kumaran: the way you’ve operated a brain forge before, but the way you’re feeling is the way that I felt in running these projects, where you have to drive, right? And, like.
84 00:09:09.380 ⇒ 00:09:14.990 Uttam Kumaran: you just can’t… I think Greg did a good job today of, like, like, close the loop, like.
85 00:09:15.130 ⇒ 00:09:31.899 Uttam Kumaran: if you ask, hey, when this thing can go on, you get radio silence, you just kind of spam people until you figure it out, right? Because there’s no answer is not a… not an appropriate answer. And then, ultimately, the first job is to make sure the client happy, then the second job is to be like.
86 00:09:32.010 ⇒ 00:09:46.790 Uttam Kumaran: what did we do wrong there, right? So, I think for Nav on ABC, you’re doing a good job of being like, let’s just patch things, but I’m seeing a pretty… pretty severe lack of, like, I don’t know, I just don’t understand what the technical challenges are there.
87 00:09:46.790 ⇒ 00:09:53.049 Uttam Kumaran: Like, and why… why we’re continuing to have, like, zip code issues. I also…
88 00:09:53.080 ⇒ 00:09:55.559 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I just don’t see Sam…
89 00:09:55.690 ⇒ 00:10:05.090 Uttam Kumaran: playing a bigger part right now on, like, overall architecture, and I don’t know what… like, I just don’t know… I don’t think it’s sustainable, you know?
90 00:10:05.770 ⇒ 00:10:09.520 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so how I kind of think about the SL is that they…
91 00:10:09.660 ⇒ 00:10:29.249 Pranav Narahari: don’t really need to be asking, like, the ICs that many questions about the technical design of things. Like, they’re kind of the ones that created the technical design, and the ICs are, you know, they’re for… of course, like, we’re a small team, we’re gonna all just be bouncing ideas off each other, but what I’m noticing in just, like, some of these conversations is, like.
92 00:10:29.430 ⇒ 00:10:35.589 Pranav Narahari: there’s still a lot of information that Mustaf and Casey have that, like, Sam is maybe just, like, learning about now.
93 00:10:35.650 ⇒ 00:10:36.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
94 00:10:36.600 ⇒ 00:10:41.360 Pranav Narahari: And so, yeah, like, going forward on, like, the next project, like, I think…
95 00:10:42.320 ⇒ 00:10:50.010 Pranav Narahari: that, like, he needs to be, like, the source of truth for, like, the technical design. And so he should know, like, if I’m bringing up, like, a bug that, like, the client is…
96 00:10:50.290 ⇒ 00:10:57.920 Pranav Narahari: seeing that they’re having, like, he immediately knows, like, oh, Casey, you worked on this, like, go, like, can you patch this?
97 00:10:58.220 ⇒ 00:11:01.109 Pranav Narahari: Like, in a perfect system, that’s how it would work to me.
98 00:11:01.710 ⇒ 00:11:02.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
99 00:11:03.490 ⇒ 00:11:08.749 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. I don’t… you can’t… you can’t do both.
100 00:11:08.940 ⇒ 00:11:15.069 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t see you getting any help. So let me take that as a…
101 00:11:15.190 ⇒ 00:11:21.909 Uttam Kumaran: note, and I will… Chat with Sam and… And deliver that feedback.
102 00:11:22.050 ⇒ 00:11:23.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yep.
103 00:11:23.590 ⇒ 00:11:27.920 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to wrap up today, like, all of the…
104 00:11:28.030 ⇒ 00:11:33.929 Uttam Kumaran: like, I mean, you guys should see my fucking screen is, like, I have 8 different, like, chat windows up.
105 00:11:34.410 ⇒ 00:11:37.499 Uttam Kumaran: Like, it’s, like, the most insane thing you’ve ever seen.
106 00:11:39.060 ⇒ 00:11:44.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yesterday, I was… I had, like, 4 or 5 chat windows, and I had something… my laptop was open, doing stuff.
107 00:11:44.640 ⇒ 00:11:48.630 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, I’m pushing so much out as fast as possible.
108 00:11:48.830 ⇒ 00:11:54.910 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I… I should have all the service line,
109 00:11:55.710 ⇒ 00:12:05.550 Uttam Kumaran: the service lead-related stuff done. We also today pushed out, like, a pretty, good mapping of all of our existing services.
110 00:12:05.650 ⇒ 00:12:12.350 Uttam Kumaran: So, and that came from the sales side, which… which I’m happy about, also.
111 00:12:13.950 ⇒ 00:12:14.270 Pranav Narahari: Nice.
112 00:12:14.270 ⇒ 00:12:17.219 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe I could even show you that just while we…
113 00:12:17.460 ⇒ 00:12:19.099 Uttam Kumaran: While I have Neil on here.
114 00:12:26.220 ⇒ 00:12:27.590 Uttam Kumaran: Okay…
115 00:12:32.100 ⇒ 00:12:39.609 Uttam Kumaran: So… We have, A 3-service line hierarchy.
116 00:12:39.760 ⇒ 00:12:41.750 Uttam Kumaran: And then we have, like, these…
117 00:12:41.900 ⇒ 00:12:46.889 Uttam Kumaran: We have, like, templates for offers and things like that, and then we have AI.
118 00:12:47.030 ⇒ 00:12:49.800 Uttam Kumaran: data, And then strategy.
119 00:12:50.970 ⇒ 00:12:54.230 Uttam Kumaran: And so we kind of built out the system for
120 00:12:54.380 ⇒ 00:12:58.250 Uttam Kumaran: Like, all the rest… all the pieces associated with these services.
121 00:12:58.510 ⇒ 00:13:02.750 Uttam Kumaran: And a lot of that… a lot of that lives in…
122 00:13:02.920 ⇒ 00:13:05.540 Uttam Kumaran: in here, which is great.
123 00:13:05.780 ⇒ 00:13:12.319 Uttam Kumaran: I think one thing that I also wanted to mention is, like, there’s two ways that I expect the service
124 00:13:12.580 ⇒ 00:13:15.250 Uttam Kumaran: Leaders to help you also, is one.
125 00:13:15.410 ⇒ 00:13:24.520 Uttam Kumaran: We’re basically gonna try… we’re thinking about bonusing the service leads in a couple of different ways.
126 00:13:24.930 ⇒ 00:13:27.430 Uttam Kumaran: One is gonna be,
127 00:13:28.340 ⇒ 00:13:37.529 Uttam Kumaran: So for everybody across the board, if you submit a delivery source opportunity, like, if you’re like, hey, I’m in ABC, they have something over here, I went and talked to them.
128 00:13:37.700 ⇒ 00:13:46.639 Uttam Kumaran: I think they’d be down to work with us, and you submit that, and it has… if there’s, like, a lead, if there’s, like, clearly a person to talk to, and there’s a follow-up.
129 00:13:46.830 ⇒ 00:13:51.789 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you basically will get credit if that… if that deal goes through.
130 00:13:51.890 ⇒ 00:14:08.510 Uttam Kumaran: Now, there’s actually two pieces of that. If you’re just to submit that opportunity, there’s gonna be a bonus. If you actually contribute and, like, help close it, then sales has the leeway to give you an additional amount. So, that’s one piece. That’s gonna be open to anyone who’s a lead.
131 00:14:08.560 ⇒ 00:14:25.139 Uttam Kumaran: The second thing that, I’m also going to push on the delivery team, the service line team, is sales playbooks and delivery playbooks. Meaning, they’re gonna get tasked with saying, hey, here’s the way you sell my service.
132 00:14:25.230 ⇒ 00:14:42.149 Uttam Kumaran: like, a good example of this is Zoron. I think Zoran, sent something to Robert, which was basically like, hey, here’s a blog post, like, I wrote a while ago that outlines, sort of, this service, and I think he basically outlined
133 00:14:42.260 ⇒ 00:14:43.130 Uttam Kumaran: like…
134 00:14:43.430 ⇒ 00:14:48.740 Uttam Kumaran: hey, here’s, like, how we could pitch this. And I don’t know, Greg, if you’re familiar, if you were on that meeting, but…
135 00:14:48.740 ⇒ 00:14:52.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I wasn’t on the meeting, but I read the blog post, and it was really good.
136 00:14:53.020 ⇒ 00:14:56.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I feel like there’s something around,
137 00:14:57.430 ⇒ 00:15:02.109 Uttam Kumaran: there’s something around that, like, let me see if I can get you the… get you this picture.
138 00:15:03.650 ⇒ 00:15:17.619 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I… Robert sent me… and you don’t have to look at it, Greg, but I think you’ve probably seen this, which is just, like, hey, here’s, like, this thing we could do around automating multi-platform audience management. He proposed, like… he proposed, like.
139 00:15:17.740 ⇒ 00:15:28.829 Uttam Kumaran: the OKR, and, like, that’s a great thing from a service lead, which is basically, like, hey, we have this other capability, they need this, like, here’s the playbook for sales to go sell it.
140 00:15:28.830 ⇒ 00:15:41.209 Uttam Kumaran: So we’re gonna… I’m also gonna try to get the service leads to start to generate those. Those may not directly affect both of you, but again, you’re gonna see a lot of our OKRs go towards,
141 00:15:41.350 ⇒ 00:15:46.740 Uttam Kumaran: you’re gonna see a lot of our OKRs go towards, what’s it called?
142 00:15:47.820 ⇒ 00:15:57.069 Uttam Kumaran: sales and, like, revenue generation, and so that’s one piece. The second piece is gonna be,
143 00:15:58.130 ⇒ 00:16:05.540 Uttam Kumaran: around delivery playbooks. And so we’re actually going to… I’m actually gonna ask the,
144 00:16:05.640 ⇒ 00:16:24.269 Uttam Kumaran: the service lead team to also start to generate delivery playbooks. And basically, the way that’s gonna work, is, like, their job is to say, hey, here’s, like, the wrapped-up version for how to do an Omni pilot. So that is something, Greg, that, like, like, Jasmine would develop.
145 00:16:24.270 ⇒ 00:16:42.109 Uttam Kumaran: she would say, here’s the way we do this OmniPilot. She would then hand it to you, and then what basically I’m gonna do is, like, if you use it, and you find that it was actually super, super helpful, you can… and you can basically offer that as, like, a bonus to her. So we’re… I’m not gonna just say, hey, everybody, like.
146 00:16:42.110 ⇒ 00:16:49.259 Uttam Kumaran: develop 10 playbooks. It’s like, if the playbook is used, and it was deemed effective, then there’s gonna be…
147 00:16:49.550 ⇒ 00:17:07.130 Uttam Kumaran: you know, some type of offer. So ideally, what you guys should see is that, one, like, your work gets more predictable. Like, most of your work should be around a structured execution. Second, yes, like, all the people management and sort of, like, a lot of the technical architecture should go to the SL as well.
148 00:17:07.190 ⇒ 00:17:11.689 Uttam Kumaran: So that you guys can own the client relationship, much more significantly.
149 00:17:15.129 ⇒ 00:17:16.389 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. That sounds great.
150 00:17:16.390 ⇒ 00:17:19.339 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I like that. I mean, I am noticing, too, like.
151 00:17:20.140 ⇒ 00:17:38.759 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, in the… kind of last week, I did all of, like, the upfront work of, like, creating the project plan, which was, like, the… the initiative, like, the project, the milestones, and doing all, like, the thinking that went behind that. And so I’m kind of seeing now, like.
152 00:17:38.910 ⇒ 00:17:43.340 Pranav Narahari: the balance and, like, how a lot of time is being saved with having, like, an SL.
153 00:17:43.470 ⇒ 00:17:50.299 Pranav Narahari: Like, when, like, the technical approach gets done, like, and once that process gets smoothed out, like.
154 00:17:50.570 ⇒ 00:17:58.060 Pranav Narahari: This will give me a lot more time, too, to, like, eventually, like, you know, manage, like, 3 to 4 clients, so…
155 00:17:58.540 ⇒ 00:18:02.240 Pranav Narahari: Like, the… the system in place, like, makes a lot of sense to me.
156 00:18:03.400 ⇒ 00:18:03.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
157 00:18:03.850 ⇒ 00:18:10.879 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, and, Tom, I think I said the same thing last week, late last week, like…
158 00:18:11.090 ⇒ 00:18:13.340 Greg Stoutenburg: hearing about the SL role.
159 00:18:13.590 ⇒ 00:18:19.399 Greg Stoutenburg: and the things that are in mind for it makes me feel like, okay, great, I can see how I can…
160 00:18:19.830 ⇒ 00:18:26.580 Greg Stoutenburg: really step into this, what I think of as essentially a product manager role, and, divvy up work accordingly.
161 00:18:26.830 ⇒ 00:18:44.730 Greg Stoutenburg: And I think right now, for me, the blocker is just… I don’t know, I think I just don’t have that right now. I’m hoping that that will change when Jasmine comes on board, but right now, it just seems like it’s, you know, it’s a mix of what we’re talking about. Yeah, right, exactly. And, like, you know, managed work streams, and it’s just a lot.
162 00:18:45.310 ⇒ 00:19:04.069 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so we’re transitioning a little bit, and I think there’s a little bit of a jam on the strategy side. Like, I think Awash and Demi are good. I think Demi and Sam really are the ones that I feel like need to step up a bit and, like, start to get their stuff together, and I think, like, I’ll be spending some time with them tomorrow.
163 00:19:04.070 ⇒ 00:19:07.189 Uttam Kumaran: And trying to push… push this through. Yeah.
164 00:19:07.540 ⇒ 00:19:10.499 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, I want to see them really…
165 00:19:10.560 ⇒ 00:19:21.710 Uttam Kumaran: elevate, like, the standard of, like, their service across the board. Like, start pushing out playbooks, and have a really opinionated way to, like, look at how work is going out.
166 00:19:21.770 ⇒ 00:19:40.620 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I think you guys are gonna see that help. I think also, just having the project plan done is gonna give you something to refer back to, and, like, you won’t have to, like, in the middle of a project, re-articulate linear and things like that. So, one of the things that, you know, I think, you know, either this week or next week.
167 00:19:40.620 ⇒ 00:19:48.620 Uttam Kumaran: I would love to kind of show you guys, like, some of my, like, AI workflow as I do, like, CSO work. Like, I… I am…
168 00:19:48.720 ⇒ 00:20:08.540 Uttam Kumaran: I am using the AI stuff for literally everything, because I just have no time, and I think it’ll be interesting for me to show you guys how I interact with linear, how I kind of prepare for meetings. I also just do a lot of work, actually, within it, and so I think I would love to spend some time and just focus on, like.
169 00:20:08.620 ⇒ 00:20:19.710 Uttam Kumaran: okay, what are the CSO tasks, and how do you just, like, level up? How can I give you another, like, 20% efficiency just from, like, I think a lot of the stuff we shipped in linear, in cursor, you know?
170 00:20:20.060 ⇒ 00:20:20.720 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
171 00:20:21.670 ⇒ 00:20:22.989 Greg Stoutenburg: I love a walkthrough.
172 00:20:23.300 ⇒ 00:20:23.690 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
173 00:20:23.690 ⇒ 00:20:25.409 Greg Stoutenburg: I love a demo, I love a walkthrough.
174 00:20:25.830 ⇒ 00:20:26.150 Pranav Narahari: Yep.
175 00:20:26.150 ⇒ 00:20:26.750 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
176 00:20:28.070 ⇒ 00:20:28.900 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
177 00:20:29.260 ⇒ 00:20:42.099 Uttam Kumaran: The other… the other kind of piece that I’m gonna start doing, and I’m thinking about starting this on Monday, which is basically, like, I kind of thought about these, like, brown bags. I mean, again, I… I’ve been really big on this, like.
178 00:20:42.280 ⇒ 00:20:46.590 Uttam Kumaran: analogical reasoning the past, like, 2 days, and I’m like, okay.
179 00:20:46.590 ⇒ 00:20:47.589 Greg Stoutenburg: How does this…
180 00:20:47.590 ⇒ 00:20:51.489 Uttam Kumaran: What is, like, a brown bags, like, what is the collegiate all, like.
181 00:20:51.680 ⇒ 00:21:01.949 Uttam Kumaran: analogy here, and it basically was, like, it’s kind of like an MBA case study, or, like, some type of seminar, where it’s like, hey, I’m gonna come in with a, like.
182 00:21:01.990 ⇒ 00:21:19.980 Uttam Kumaran: this series is modeled around, sort of, case study discussions and, like, seminars, which is, like, there’s gonna be something that’s, like, a pre-read, and it’s gonna be, like, a real situation, and it’s gonna be, like, what would you do? What would you do? And it’s gonna be, like, a discussion. And so, for example, some of these may be, like.
183 00:21:20.050 ⇒ 00:21:33.859 Uttam Kumaran: how does delivery source opportunities work, and how can delivery actually be, like, a huge driver of growth? Another thing could be, like, managing difficult client relationships and, like, repairing trust.
184 00:21:33.960 ⇒ 00:21:43.130 Uttam Kumaran: Another thing can be, like, time management, and, like, prioritization, and, like, distraction mitigation, right? So, like, those are all things that I…
185 00:21:43.240 ⇒ 00:22:02.060 Uttam Kumaran: think a lot about, and, like, I think as consultants, as experts, like, it’s gonna help to, like, have a discussion around some of these topics. You know, we could do something around leadership, we could do something around resource allocation. I kind of just want to take you guys on a journey
186 00:22:02.100 ⇒ 00:22:06.059 Uttam Kumaran: Through, like, the delivery mechanism of the company.
187 00:22:06.130 ⇒ 00:22:24.279 Uttam Kumaran: And I think an hour a week is sort of just gonna, like, get us there. You’re gonna find that, like, the moment I explain to you one of these topics, you’re gonna see it everywhere in the company, so I think it’s gonna be good to do that, and then I want to spend as much time with, like, you two just focus on client success.
188 00:22:24.280 ⇒ 00:22:29.340 Uttam Kumaran: as much as possible as well. So I know, like, each of us has, like, we kind of…
189 00:22:29.450 ⇒ 00:22:49.379 Uttam Kumaran: this group, I think, has one-on-ones with me individually, like, I would love to combine that and just have time where we discuss, like, okay, what is a top situation today? Like, what is something that we… like, what is a case we dealt with today that was… you felt, like, off about? What is something upcoming that you feel nervous about? And just, like, help you guys, like, win, you know?
190 00:22:51.500 ⇒ 00:22:52.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
191 00:22:53.060 ⇒ 00:22:55.070 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, how often would you want to have those?
192 00:22:55.460 ⇒ 00:23:00.530 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I… I would at least try to do it, like, once or twice a week. Yeah.
193 00:23:01.090 ⇒ 00:23:04.489 Uttam Kumaran: I, I do, like, your guys’ job is, is, like.
194 00:23:04.610 ⇒ 00:23:11.770 Uttam Kumaran: Sometimes there’s, like, stuff that’s happening right now that needs help, Versus, like, you may…
195 00:23:11.910 ⇒ 00:23:15.599 Uttam Kumaran: there’s also stuff that’s, like, more reflective, so I do want to have, like.
196 00:23:15.820 ⇒ 00:23:31.320 Uttam Kumaran: some time period where it’s like, hey, okay, tell me what’s going on right now where I can help. Like, where are you getting jammed? And then also, like, okay, let’s talk about broader, like, okay, what happens when you start managing 3 clients? Like, how do you manage that amount of work? How do you think about client success?
197 00:23:31.440 ⇒ 00:23:37.870 Uttam Kumaran: How do you think about, like, relationship building? And again, it’s not like a two-way… it’s not a one-way conversation, but…
198 00:23:38.100 ⇒ 00:23:51.170 Uttam Kumaran: Just so, like, we have a… something around that topic. So yeah, I think twice a week, if we do twice a week, that’d be good. That way, I don’t have to book other time on your calendars, and then… I’m… I’m always slacking with you guys every day, so…
199 00:23:51.490 ⇒ 00:23:52.200 Pranav Narahari: Yep.
200 00:23:52.660 ⇒ 00:23:53.350 Greg Stoutenburg: Damn.
201 00:23:53.880 ⇒ 00:23:58.499 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, the calendar help has been very appreciated. I would like to have that
202 00:23:59.580 ⇒ 00:24:02.539 Greg Stoutenburg: To have that meeting cadence that you just described, that sounds good to me.
203 00:24:03.210 ⇒ 00:24:05.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah, I think I’ll do something on Mondays, and then…
204 00:24:05.950 ⇒ 00:24:06.730 Greg Stoutenburg: confuse it.
205 00:24:07.110 ⇒ 00:24:11.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think I’ll do something on Mondays, and then something smaller middle of the week.
206 00:24:11.640 ⇒ 00:24:15.819 Uttam Kumaran: In the middle of the week, if there’s something to talk about, we can keep it, otherwise…
207 00:24:16.330 ⇒ 00:24:31.070 Uttam Kumaran: we can remove it, or, like… I would honestly prefer it to be, like, you guys come with topics, because I’ll… I will… this week and next week will be a lot from my side, but ideally, I shouldn’t have, like, tons of changes coming.
208 00:24:31.070 ⇒ 00:24:38.029 Uttam Kumaran: So, I would prefer, if you’re like, hey, this is the situation, can we discuss how we handle it? I think that’d be good.
209 00:24:39.270 ⇒ 00:24:39.860 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
210 00:24:41.000 ⇒ 00:24:41.930 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, that sounds good.
211 00:24:42.490 ⇒ 00:24:43.020 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
212 00:24:45.770 ⇒ 00:24:54.080 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool, I mean, another thing I feel like, last piece, this,
213 00:24:54.340 ⇒ 00:25:10.510 Uttam Kumaran: this quarter, I think the way I’m gonna think about, like, CSOs is, one, I think everything is gonna be geared for this group around delivery source opportunities. Basically, how can… delivery source opportunities and renewals.
214 00:25:10.620 ⇒ 00:25:30.369 Uttam Kumaran: So, how can this crew get… help sales, get ahead of renewals, and also expand and sell additional work? It’s where the account management piece is going to be really key, but ultimately, the only way you can have an account management-style conversation is if you nail the work. Otherwise, you’re going to see… it’s always going to come back to, like, well.
215 00:25:30.510 ⇒ 00:25:40.799 Uttam Kumaran: let’s get this first thing done, right? So, our first job this quarter is gonna be, like, just nailing it. Like, just hit the foundation.
216 00:25:40.800 ⇒ 00:25:56.330 Uttam Kumaran: Because I’m telling you, then you’re gonna see conversations will open up to, like, okay, what else can we work on? And so, for me, the next 30 days is gonna be about, can we hit all of the standards that we set forth together as, like, a CSO group?
217 00:25:56.430 ⇒ 00:26:00.979 Uttam Kumaran: And then… what I’m gonna… what I wanna help you guys do is start to…
218 00:26:01.040 ⇒ 00:26:08.360 Uttam Kumaran: like, get more acquainted with sales, whether it’s delivery source opportunities. Also, if you start to go, like.
219 00:26:08.370 ⇒ 00:26:22.049 Uttam Kumaran: I want to kind of get you guys closer into HubSpot to see what leads are in pipeline, to also kind of promote yourselves within the sales team. So you could be like, hey, I saw this client, I think I can come with you and actually sell this.
220 00:26:22.120 ⇒ 00:26:25.470 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna see that, like, that’s gonna be the fastest way to, like.
221 00:26:25.590 ⇒ 00:26:31.830 Uttam Kumaran: much more money here. I think we’re gonna move away… We’re gonna move away from
222 00:26:32.020 ⇒ 00:26:41.670 Uttam Kumaran: KPIs that aren’t directly revenue generating. And instead, we’re gonna have this sort of standard hitting model, and then everything’s gonna be towards
223 00:26:41.680 ⇒ 00:26:53.540 Uttam Kumaran: either creating reproducible assets that, like, lead to work getting done smoother, or it’s gonna be delivery source opportunities. And I know both of you guys want to help on the sales side, so as.
224 00:26:53.540 ⇒ 00:26:53.890 Pranav Narahari: dope.
225 00:26:53.890 ⇒ 00:27:05.149 Uttam Kumaran: clients come in, like, whether it’s Jarrell or Robert or me, they can pull you up, and then you’re gonna… you’re gonna be able to get a piece of that deal, depending on when you come in to help.
226 00:27:05.150 ⇒ 00:27:19.879 Uttam Kumaran: like, the way Robert and I are thinking about it is, like, well, if you just pass an opportunity in, that’s one thing. If you pass an opportunity in, and then, like, come to, like, the first meeting, and then the third thing is if you close it yourself, there’s also another thing. So…
227 00:27:20.030 ⇒ 00:27:25.030 Uttam Kumaran: I want to sort of strike to show you guys, first, just, like, executing
228 00:27:25.290 ⇒ 00:27:33.839 Uttam Kumaran: Just, like, excellent client success work, and then showing you guys, okay, like, here’s… here’s now how the… the jump to,
229 00:27:34.480 ⇒ 00:27:38.289 Uttam Kumaran: The jump to sales is actually not that far from there.
230 00:27:41.830 ⇒ 00:27:50.419 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha. Yeah, I just had a sales call with Robert, like, an hour and a half ago, and I was just… I messaged him right after, I was like.
231 00:27:50.870 ⇒ 00:27:54.950 Pranav Narahari: I felt, like, kind of useless in that call, because I was just like, Robert was…
232 00:27:55.420 ⇒ 00:28:08.269 Pranav Narahari: he had a lot of, like, the… he’s kind of hitting all the points that needed to be hit, I think, and he was just like, yeah, I think it was just kind of, like, early, like, it was too early of a call for us to kind of get into, like, the nitty-gritty of, like, the technical.
233 00:28:08.500 ⇒ 00:28:14.659 Pranav Narahari: And so, probably closer to, like, the… but how I see it is that I can start moving up
234 00:28:14.800 ⇒ 00:28:30.060 Pranav Narahari: the, I guess, like, the sales funnel in terms of, like, which call I’m having with the client, as I kind of just, like, perfect the later calls. So, like, in the later calls, they’re kind of already interested, of course, maybe we’re already, like, at the demo phase.
235 00:28:30.240 ⇒ 00:28:42.990 Pranav Narahari: once we kind of give them a demo, like, that’s a great introduct… like, that’s the… probably the first type of calls that I should be part of, and then after I start doing really well at that, and I feel really comfortable with that, probably getting to, like, the…
236 00:28:43.040 ⇒ 00:28:52.190 Pranav Narahari: the stage right before that, which is like, okay, how did we get to the demo? What were the questions that needed to be asked? What do we need to get from the potential client to, like.
237 00:28:52.550 ⇒ 00:28:58.070 Pranav Narahari: get them interested in a demo. So, for me, I think it makes more sense for me to think about it that way, too.
238 00:28:58.260 ⇒ 00:29:09.899 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think what you’re gonna find is the later stage a deal is, the higher odds of it closing, but also, it’s hard to get it there. So, like, yes, it should feel easy once we’ve talked to people, but, like.
239 00:29:10.400 ⇒ 00:29:11.550 Uttam Kumaran: the…
240 00:29:11.740 ⇒ 00:29:28.290 Uttam Kumaran: that’s… that’s just sales, you know? It’s like learning about what the pieces are. So, again, I think what I want to do is, like, try to allow you guys to help alleviate the sales team, and that, hey, let’s come on the last meeting, you get to meet on the client, we close the deal, you already have a relationship.
241 00:29:29.320 ⇒ 00:29:32.270 Uttam Kumaran: I want every deal to be sold alongside a CSO.
242 00:29:32.640 ⇒ 00:29:33.140 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
243 00:29:33.140 ⇒ 00:29:39.679 Uttam Kumaran: You know? Right. And then the service leads, they’re the ones producing playbooks, like, what is the offer?
244 00:29:39.680 ⇒ 00:29:40.630 Pranav Narahari: Right?
245 00:29:40.630 ⇒ 00:29:45.630 Uttam Kumaran: And so they’re gonna work on offer development, and then they’re gonna get paid if the offer gets used.
246 00:29:45.760 ⇒ 00:29:48.579 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like a really natural cycle, you know?
247 00:29:48.810 ⇒ 00:29:49.480 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
248 00:29:50.210 ⇒ 00:29:50.900 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
249 00:29:58.210 ⇒ 00:29:58.720 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
250 00:29:58.920 ⇒ 00:30:05.380 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m on board. I think it… I think that makes sense. I think that any time that a deal…
251 00:30:06.120 ⇒ 00:30:09.350 Greg Stoutenburg: is being let by or closed by a CSO.
252 00:30:15.290 ⇒ 00:30:17.230 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’re cutting out a bit, Greg.
253 00:30:18.930 ⇒ 00:30:19.580 Pranav Narahari: Yep.
254 00:30:20.800 ⇒ 00:30:23.249 Uttam Kumaran: But I probably agree with whatever you’re gonna say.
255 00:30:23.250 ⇒ 00:30:25.179 Greg Stoutenburg: Already really late, because we’ve…
256 00:30:25.460 ⇒ 00:30:32.000 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ve identified in tips and, like, a structure in place for us to bring those things to the line would be very helpful.
257 00:30:33.340 ⇒ 00:30:45.059 Uttam Kumaran: I missed the last, like, 20 seconds, but I’m assuming that you said, like, any deal that gets sold to the CSO is great, and then any sort of guidance or guidelines on, like, how to push those forward, right?
258 00:30:45.280 ⇒ 00:30:50.329 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, in short, that’s right. I’m, you know, you know the deal. I’m in York County.
259 00:30:51.000 ⇒ 00:30:51.930 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so…
260 00:30:53.050 ⇒ 00:30:55.449 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna go.
261 00:30:55.520 ⇒ 00:30:57.489 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve been in and out this whole call.
262 00:30:57.490 ⇒ 00:31:13.860 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, okay, that’s great, that’s great, yeah. So that’s something that, like, I think I can do something around. Maybe that’s the first meeting I do, is just talking about delivery source opportunities. That’s gonna be your easiest pitch. Once we’re in a client, the easiest money you guys are gonna make is selling them on more work.
263 00:31:14.030 ⇒ 00:31:31.530 Uttam Kumaran: Like, it’s way, way, way easier than new logos. And, like, I want you guys to, like, let’s maybe think about it that way. Let’s talk about, first, just, like, nailing active work, leveraging CSOs. The second piece is gonna be, okay, things are going well, how do we expand, right?
264 00:31:31.530 ⇒ 00:31:32.030 Pranav Narahari: Yup.
265 00:31:32.030 ⇒ 00:31:42.389 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s gonna be the sales team’s goal to, like, get you things that can expand, right? So, like, we’re… I’m telling you, we’re no longer gonna go… we’re no longer going after clients with no upside.
266 00:31:42.420 ⇒ 00:31:55.830 Uttam Kumaran: like, every client we bring on, we try to have, like, pretty good upside. And you’re gonna see that, like, Robert and I were able to sell these, and so now I’m gonna start to tune your guys’ brain to start to see those opportunities, and then…
267 00:31:55.830 ⇒ 00:32:05.120 Uttam Kumaran: you’ll be able to, like, okay, cool, like, actually, I overheard that there’s some push project over here. Let me go… let me go dig, find out more information, and then loop in sales.
268 00:32:05.350 ⇒ 00:32:06.310 Pranav Narahari: Right?
269 00:32:06.310 ⇒ 00:32:10.839 Uttam Kumaran: And then you’ll see, okay, actually, let me go dig, and I think I could put together this scope.
270 00:32:10.960 ⇒ 00:32:19.009 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So you’ll see that it’s like a naturally… you’ll crawl towards, like, almost being able to sell net new work to an existing client.
271 00:32:19.160 ⇒ 00:32:29.430 Uttam Kumaran: And then that’s, like, chapter one, and then chapter two is, like, okay, now that I’m able to, like, sell work, how can I get involved in, like, the net new logo sales process?
272 00:32:29.450 ⇒ 00:32:41.070 Uttam Kumaran: And you’ll see, like, it’s just being able to talk about your work. It’s… it’s a lot of just, like, explaining the things that we’ve done, being like, oh yeah, we did this for this client, here’s how we typically work, like, it’s…
273 00:32:41.350 ⇒ 00:32:48.039 Uttam Kumaran: You guys are really close, but again, the confidence is gonna come from just, like, having normal day-to-day buttoned up.
274 00:32:48.370 ⇒ 00:32:52.180 Uttam Kumaran: It’s gonna give you that space to think.
275 00:32:52.460 ⇒ 00:32:53.700 Uttam Kumaran: And try things.
276 00:32:57.470 ⇒ 00:32:58.730 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, that makes sense to me.
277 00:33:02.400 ⇒ 00:33:05.969 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, I gotta hop for a sec, but I should be right back in a couple minutes, okay?
278 00:33:06.150 ⇒ 00:33:07.080 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay.
279 00:33:07.300 ⇒ 00:33:08.310 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
280 00:33:09.430 ⇒ 00:33:13.129 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t know, Pranav, what else?
281 00:33:13.920 ⇒ 00:33:18.879 Uttam Kumaran: like, how is the… how is the Eden AI stuff coming? So I can go… I can review…
282 00:33:19.050 ⇒ 00:33:26.979 Uttam Kumaran: the Eden AI project, I can review the Andy thing today. Like, I just, I just want to give you a review and close, and, like.
283 00:33:27.390 ⇒ 00:33:33.270 Uttam Kumaran: try to have some feedback, and then I’ll give Sam some feedback, so… yeah, like, What else?
284 00:33:33.270 ⇒ 00:33:38.970 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I think, I, I like, so today, like.
285 00:33:40.040 ⇒ 00:33:43.949 Pranav Narahari: I think it was really good to have the conversation of, like, hey, this is…
286 00:33:44.090 ⇒ 00:33:49.309 Pranav Narahari: this is where we come for your expertise as SL, and so I think,
287 00:33:49.590 ⇒ 00:33:54.339 Pranav Narahari: that’s just getting more and more clear with, like, Awash and Sam. Yeah.
288 00:33:55.070 ⇒ 00:34:01.809 Pranav Narahari: My… so, with ABC, I basically came up with, like, the entire technical approach.
289 00:34:03.310 ⇒ 00:34:10.380 Pranav Narahari: And so… and then I’m just… I just want to make sure that, like, Sam is fully on board with that technical approach, he’s thought it through.
290 00:34:10.670 ⇒ 00:34:11.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
291 00:34:11.310 ⇒ 00:34:12.599 Pranav Narahari: Like you said.
292 00:34:13.250 ⇒ 00:34:28.060 Pranav Narahari: you… we can get into this account manager… I can get into this, like, account manager type role if the work is just… is just really good, you know? There’s not, like, fires that I’m putting out every single day. And then, at that point, too, then I can start, like.
293 00:34:28.350 ⇒ 00:34:33.299 Pranav Narahari: Having maybe a… Like, more clients, basically, are just, like.
294 00:34:33.300 ⇒ 00:34:34.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
295 00:34:34.480 ⇒ 00:34:38.270 Pranav Narahari: just being able to handle more, right?
296 00:34:38.719 ⇒ 00:34:49.180 Pranav Narahari: And so what I just want to, like, feel really… and I feel… I do feel pretty good about, like, the technical approach that I came up with for ABC.
297 00:34:49.420 ⇒ 00:34:58.459 Pranav Narahari: But I do want to just, like, stress test it a little bit, because I think a little bit of this project is, like, it’s being built on, like, legs that are already kind of, like, broken.
298 00:34:59.990 ⇒ 00:35:07.550 Pranav Narahari: because… and we’re fixing them, and I feel really good about, like, what’s been fixed, but it’s just… it’s kind of a year of, like.
299 00:35:07.660 ⇒ 00:35:10.789 Pranav Narahari: this client’s been… been worked on, and…
300 00:35:10.950 ⇒ 00:35:17.120 Pranav Narahari: The information is just so scattered among the engineers. And…
301 00:35:18.130 ⇒ 00:35:23.929 Pranav Narahari: I just think it’s, like, it’s a process, like, you know, this week I was… we’re looking at GCP, and…
302 00:35:24.040 ⇒ 00:35:35.709 Pranav Narahari: we just have, like, different services for different, like, environments, and I’m just thinking, like, this just seems way too complex for what we’re doing, and why isn’t this all documented?
303 00:35:35.890 ⇒ 00:35:36.810 Pranav Narahari: Yup.
304 00:35:37.710 ⇒ 00:35:45.440 Pranav Narahari: And… why is everybody not, like, on the… at least, like, Sam on the same page with, like, Mustafa and Casey on this?
305 00:35:46.340 ⇒ 00:35:48.470 Pranav Narahari: So I just want to make sure that, like.
306 00:35:48.760 ⇒ 00:36:02.980 Uttam Kumaran: No, I hear you. So, like, if I could tell you what I’m… what I’m gonna try and do, is I’m gonna go to Sam and be like, hey, so far this week, like, we’ve missed expectations. Like, none of the project reviews that you were supposed to give reviews on
307 00:36:03.110 ⇒ 00:36:14.049 Uttam Kumaran: You ended up giving, like, And also, Parnav is, like, basically doing your job on ABC.
308 00:36:14.910 ⇒ 00:36:18.170 Uttam Kumaran: I, I, like, there has to be a change here.
309 00:36:18.440 ⇒ 00:36:24.919 Uttam Kumaran: like, I mean, I’m gonna be really, like, a lot more frank with everybody who’s, who’s a lead?
310 00:36:25.040 ⇒ 00:36:27.780 Uttam Kumaran: This quarter, you’re gonna see, because
311 00:36:28.090 ⇒ 00:36:32.620 Uttam Kumaran: like, I just don’t have… I’m… I’m sort of… we just don’t have the time to, like.
312 00:36:32.850 ⇒ 00:36:35.030 Uttam Kumaran: Figure this out on the client’s behalf.
313 00:36:35.060 ⇒ 00:36:47.139 Uttam Kumaran: So, if people are not able to step up and do their standards, then we will find people that can. So, I think… I feel like that you guys gave it a good shot and tried to resolve.
314 00:36:47.140 ⇒ 00:37:01.349 Uttam Kumaran: it’s my turn to sort of escalate and share that, so I agree. And then, look, worst case, like, I’ll fill in, and I’ll give you the… I’ll give you the original architecture, I’ll give you the architecture, and we’ll drive, like, I’m not worried. I just want to, like, ultimately for me, it’s I need clarity on
315 00:37:02.060 ⇒ 00:37:05.640 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, like, are you gonna be responsible for this, yes or no, you know?
316 00:37:05.640 ⇒ 00:37:14.419 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so I think that’s just… I just want to feel like, the dependability is there a little bit more on that. And so…
317 00:37:15.040 ⇒ 00:37:31.019 Pranav Narahari: because I honestly, I think it’s actually probably even good for SLs, and will build a better technical approach if they aren’t just, like, in a vacuum doing it on their own. So, like, if Sam and I can, like, have a conversation, or me and whatever SL, like, have a conversation about
318 00:37:31.450 ⇒ 00:37:39.649 Pranav Narahari: they draft a technical approach, and then since I’m technical as well, and I also have maybe much better content.
319 00:37:39.650 ⇒ 00:37:47.030 Uttam Kumaran: No, but that… that is, like, the reason… that’s the reason our company is special, right? But, like, ultimately.
320 00:37:47.340 ⇒ 00:37:51.690 Uttam Kumaran: If you’re the only one doing the work, then there shouldn’t be another person.
321 00:37:52.400 ⇒ 00:37:53.500 Pranav Narahari: Yes, yeah.
322 00:37:53.500 ⇒ 00:38:01.479 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So, like, you’re gonna cover, because your job is for the client to succeed, but it’s also fair to you to be like, yo, I’m covering.
323 00:38:01.480 ⇒ 00:38:02.910 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s what I’m saying.
324 00:38:02.910 ⇒ 00:38:04.230 Uttam Kumaran: That’s good, yeah.
325 00:38:04.230 ⇒ 00:38:04.660 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
326 00:38:04.660 ⇒ 00:38:16.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the reason why… I know that all of us here can cover for it and figure it out, but, like, it’s because, like, it’s actually thinking about it the other way, because we can all speak at depth, technically.
327 00:38:16.730 ⇒ 00:38:21.919 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that’s the benefit, is that everybody on a project is technical, versus typically you have, like.
328 00:38:22.150 ⇒ 00:38:25.249 Uttam Kumaran: Very non-technical product managers, project managers, you know?
329 00:38:25.610 ⇒ 00:38:27.280 Pranav Narahari: Yep, yep, yep, yep.
330 00:38:31.140 ⇒ 00:38:34.170 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, but other than that, like, I do feel pretty good, like…
331 00:38:34.330 ⇒ 00:38:43.989 Pranav Narahari: about where things are going. Like I said, like, this week, like, I’m starting to see, like, the gains of, like, a… a system like this. Okay.
332 00:38:44.130 ⇒ 00:38:48.350 Pranav Narahari: And so… Yeah. Like, for… for me, like, I’m…
333 00:38:48.560 ⇒ 00:38:52.020 Pranav Narahari: I do really like this, this type of organization.
334 00:38:53.970 ⇒ 00:38:54.600 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
335 00:39:01.570 ⇒ 00:39:03.950 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Can you guys hear me? Yes.
336 00:39:04.420 ⇒ 00:39:05.280 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, cool.
337 00:39:08.660 ⇒ 00:39:09.470 Uttam Kumaran: Is there.
338 00:39:09.510 ⇒ 00:39:10.209 Greg Stoutenburg: Check it up.
339 00:39:10.390 ⇒ 00:39:14.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m wondering, like, if you guys think we should do any type of, like.
340 00:39:15.010 ⇒ 00:39:19.699 Uttam Kumaran: anything joint with the service leads and the CSOs, like.
341 00:39:19.900 ⇒ 00:39:24.330 Uttam Kumaran: What would be something that’s, like, high value,
342 00:39:25.720 ⇒ 00:39:31.119 Uttam Kumaran: you know, apart from, like, the brown bag thing that I mentioned, is there anything that would be valuable?
343 00:39:33.790 ⇒ 00:39:39.230 Greg Stoutenburg: To me, the only thing is aligning on what the SL’s job is.
344 00:39:39.760 ⇒ 00:39:40.320 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
345 00:39:40.560 ⇒ 00:39:46.639 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, and I think some of that is just coming from, like, sort of not really having one.
346 00:39:46.960 ⇒ 00:39:49.860 Greg Stoutenburg: When I’ve been able to tag away, she’s been great.
347 00:39:50.640 ⇒ 00:39:54.309 Greg Stoutenburg: Robert has a ton of responsibilities, Jasmine’s not really onboarded, so…
348 00:39:54.310 ⇒ 00:39:54.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
349 00:39:54.770 ⇒ 00:40:04.239 Greg Stoutenburg: It sounds great. Yeah, I mean, I guess that’s the best way I could put it. It sounds great, I’d love to have it, I just don’t really know what it looks like.
350 00:40:04.400 ⇒ 00:40:05.620 Greg Stoutenburg: From experience.
351 00:40:06.300 ⇒ 00:40:06.980 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
352 00:40:15.420 ⇒ 00:40:16.220 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
353 00:40:16.970 ⇒ 00:40:19.800 Uttam Kumaran: Look, one thing that I’m gonna,
354 00:40:21.520 ⇒ 00:40:33.350 Uttam Kumaran: I’m starting to… I think next week you’ll see that we’ll layer on a bit more, the following week we’ll layer on a bit more. So this week, I think, Greg, I owe you, like, that that is crystal clear among everybody.
355 00:40:33.780 ⇒ 00:40:34.680 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
356 00:40:36.800 ⇒ 00:40:43.190 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s… that’s what I’ll… I’ll make sure of this week, that everybody’s super, super clear on what the… what the standards are.
357 00:40:44.420 ⇒ 00:40:46.229 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, can you repeat that? I didn’t hear it.
358 00:40:46.720 ⇒ 00:40:53.610 Uttam Kumaran: No, I said I’ll make sure that everybody is super, super clear, on what the standards are.
359 00:40:54.540 ⇒ 00:41:00.609 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, that’d be good. And I think while we’re on that, Understanding what the…
360 00:41:01.490 ⇒ 00:41:03.969 Greg Stoutenburg: So, in… let’s see, I don’t know.
361 00:41:04.150 ⇒ 00:41:11.070 Greg Stoutenburg: early to mid-January or so. The idea was that CSO was something that you did for a few hours a week.
362 00:41:11.250 ⇒ 00:41:13.899 Greg Stoutenburg: In addition to owning work streams.
363 00:41:14.240 ⇒ 00:41:17.900 Greg Stoutenburg: I think I’d… maybe that’s worth a revisit?
364 00:41:18.420 ⇒ 00:41:21.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Just because… and the reason that I ask that personal…
365 00:41:31.680 ⇒ 00:41:33.249 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I lost him too.
366 00:41:34.160 ⇒ 00:41:46.870 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. I’m doing a lot of hands-on stuff, and so on. Like, just kind of want to understand, to what degree does the CSO still own individual engineer workstream responsibilities would be helpful for me.
367 00:41:47.300 ⇒ 00:42:01.009 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think the way I’m thinking about it is, like, your job is to push it along, but in the event that it’s a delay, the first escalation is to that engineer, the second escalation is to the service lead.
368 00:42:07.980 ⇒ 00:42:09.560 Uttam Kumaran: Does that kind of make sense?
369 00:42:11.780 ⇒ 00:42:12.570 Greg Stoutenburg: excuse me.
370 00:42:12.570 ⇒ 00:42:14.340 Pranav Narahari: First escalation is to down here.
371 00:42:15.470 ⇒ 00:42:18.020 Uttam Kumaran: The first escalation is to that engineer.
372 00:42:18.960 ⇒ 00:42:27.899 Uttam Kumaran: like, hey, this task was on you, like, what happened? The second escalation, if it’s… if it’s, like, continued to happen, or an issue, is just to the service lead.
373 00:42:28.470 ⇒ 00:42:30.210 Uttam Kumaran: And then it… and then it boils up.
374 00:42:33.320 ⇒ 00:42:36.010 Pranav Narahari: But I guess, who escalates it? Is it the CSO?
375 00:42:36.010 ⇒ 00:42:38.029 Uttam Kumaran: You have to escalate, yeah. Yeah.
376 00:42:38.610 ⇒ 00:42:39.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
377 00:42:39.370 ⇒ 00:42:40.559 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay, okay.
378 00:42:40.810 ⇒ 00:42:43.640 Uttam Kumaran: Because the service… think about the service lead…
379 00:42:43.920 ⇒ 00:42:49.800 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the service lead, there’s gonna be ways for them to also identify tickets that are stuck.
380 00:42:49.980 ⇒ 00:42:56.410 Uttam Kumaran: But ultimately, If you… if, like, a thing doesn’t go out, who’s gonna get phone call first?
381 00:42:56.850 ⇒ 00:42:57.380 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
382 00:42:57.380 ⇒ 00:42:58.340 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah.
383 00:42:58.340 ⇒ 00:43:14.829 Uttam Kumaran: Versus, for example, across our entire… for example, if across, like, Eden AI and stuff like that, I’m just, like, not impressed with, like, our AI systems, Sam gets a call first, right? Because I’m like, hey, we… this is all kind of shit. Like, let’s… let’s… we need to work on, like.
384 00:43:14.960 ⇒ 00:43:22.829 Uttam Kumaran: better architecture, right? Versus if it’s like, hey, this client thing needs to go out today, then I’ll call you guys.
385 00:43:23.450 ⇒ 00:43:24.090 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
386 00:43:24.470 ⇒ 00:43:25.250 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
387 00:43:26.260 ⇒ 00:43:34.330 Pranav Narahari: Okay, so for a… like, a bug that pops up in ABC, right? I should know that, like.
388 00:43:34.580 ⇒ 00:43:46.640 Pranav Narahari: okay, Casey, you’re the one that should be, like, you know, you were working on this before, the zip code updates, like, why did this fail? Like, I should go to Casey. I shouldn’t go to Sam.
389 00:43:47.010 ⇒ 00:43:50.630 Pranav Narahari: To then figure it out to, like, who does it go to?
390 00:43:52.450 ⇒ 00:43:53.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, correct.
391 00:43:53.870 ⇒ 00:43:58.650 Pranav Narahari: Okay, okay, okay. That’s good to know then. So I’ve been doing that, and I’ll continue doing that.
392 00:43:58.650 ⇒ 00:44:03.000 Uttam Kumaran: Because, like, I think you’re… I think you should… everybody who we’re gonna have at Brainforge is, like.
393 00:44:03.330 ⇒ 00:44:17.689 Uttam Kumaran: a mid-level or a senior engineer. So, like, people are, like, can manage their own shit. So, like, you don’t have to be like, okay, I’m gonna go to your boss first. I want people to be like, yo, where is this thing? And then, if you’re not getting a response, or it’s like.
394 00:44:18.030 ⇒ 00:44:27.970 Uttam Kumaran: then you can go to the service lead, and then it goes to me, right? That… and that gives EMEA, like, some gap. That also gives them the ability to start to correct, things like that.
395 00:44:28.360 ⇒ 00:44:32.690 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I think what I’m… more so…
396 00:44:33.640 ⇒ 00:44:37.909 Pranav Narahari: maybe worried about, it’s just like, okay, the SL isn’t in the loop then, if I go straight to KC.
397 00:44:39.180 ⇒ 00:44:49.710 Uttam Kumaran: Well, but then, I guess this is where… explain to me the situation where you go to Casey, and I’ll try to back into, like, how it will still end up in front of them.
398 00:44:50.140 ⇒ 00:44:56.259 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so… Let me just even just go into the ABC chat right now, from, like, today.
399 00:44:56.690 ⇒ 00:45:03.069 Pranav Narahari: So I was just on the call with, like, Janice and Yvette, and they…
400 00:45:03.200 ⇒ 00:45:19.510 Pranav Narahari: Janiece was talking about how the lawn and irrigation zip codes are not in the DB. And I know Casey was working on that last week. So then, yeah, right after that call, I just send over to Casey, hey, lawn and irrigation zip codes are not in the DB. They’re not being populated in DB properly.
401 00:45:19.660 ⇒ 00:45:23.140 Pranav Narahari: And then…
402 00:45:23.140 ⇒ 00:45:24.880 Uttam Kumaran: So you’re gonna flag that as a bug.
403 00:45:25.070 ⇒ 00:45:39.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yep. Alright, so the other thing I’ll tell Greg, start flagging issues that are unexpected as bugs in linear. Just say, like, great ticket, mark as a bug, because the SLs are going to start to look at bug tickets for their service.
404 00:45:39.420 ⇒ 00:45:41.699 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re gonna start to get judged by that.
405 00:45:41.700 ⇒ 00:45:42.950 Greg Stoutenburg: Like… Okay.
406 00:45:43.220 ⇒ 00:45:51.450 Uttam Kumaran: for example, Pranav, I’m expecting that, like, if I was to look through, I’d be like, Sam, there’s, like, 15 bugs that got introduced this week.
407 00:45:51.660 ⇒ 00:45:52.600 Pranav Narahari: Right? Yeah.
408 00:45:52.600 ⇒ 00:46:01.899 Uttam Kumaran: So, part of it is gonna be make sure there’s some proof. The proof looks like, hey, this ticket was supposed to be due today, and it didn’t get done.
409 00:46:02.280 ⇒ 00:46:09.820 Uttam Kumaran: A proof is like, hey, nobody on the team knows how to do this thing, or the ticket, like, doesn’t have enough context.
410 00:46:09.990 ⇒ 00:46:27.860 Uttam Kumaran: Another thing is, like, hey, this bug got introduced, so if you just tag it as a bug, or, like, come back at the end of the week and be like, let’s look at the tickets, that’s the easiest thing, because they’re gonna be looking at all of the tickets around their service, and then be responsible for, like, the amount of bugs that come up.
411 00:46:28.120 ⇒ 00:46:44.439 Uttam Kumaran: So they’re responsible for the amount of bugs, and they’re responsible for their… the forecasted time to be accurate. So if a ticket takes, like, 4 days, when it’s supposed to take 2, that could be a… that could be a personnel issue, like someone’s just slow, or that could be, like, hey, you actually scoped this incorrectly.
412 00:46:44.720 ⇒ 00:46:45.530 Uttam Kumaran: Went out.
413 00:46:45.970 ⇒ 00:46:46.520 Pranav Narahari: Yep.
414 00:46:46.670 ⇒ 00:46:53.689 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s where, like, yes, your job in that moment is to get Casey to fix it, but, like, log it. Yeah, you have to log.
415 00:46:53.810 ⇒ 00:46:58.189 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. I think it’s easier than ever now to just make sure it’s logged, so…
416 00:46:58.500 ⇒ 00:47:01.810 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, totally. I think that bug label…
417 00:47:02.180 ⇒ 00:47:06.619 Pranav Narahari: I just added it to a different ticket, so… yeah, I’ll just be more…
418 00:47:07.190 ⇒ 00:47:09.779 Pranav Narahari: I’ll just be more aware of that and do that more often.
419 00:47:10.200 ⇒ 00:47:11.269 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
420 00:47:16.500 ⇒ 00:47:17.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, that sounds good.
421 00:47:21.880 ⇒ 00:47:22.800 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
422 00:47:25.240 ⇒ 00:47:33.870 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, maybe let’s, let’s do something tomorrow on, like, Kirscher stuff. I mean, if you guys even have, like, 5 minutes, like.
423 00:47:34.200 ⇒ 00:47:45.550 Uttam Kumaran: where, like, where are you guys seeing, like, the most time go into? Where are you guys seeing, like, AI actually helping you? Like, even those two questions will help me kind of think about, like, what I can share.
424 00:47:48.570 ⇒ 00:47:55.839 Greg Stoutenburg: So my thoughts while I saw this signal, are… I think for me, it really comes down to…
425 00:47:56.280 ⇒ 00:48:02.740 Greg Stoutenburg: their responsibilities split between account management and workstream Owner.
426 00:48:03.070 ⇒ 00:48:06.749 Greg Stoutenburg: Because most of the Workstream stuff that I do.
427 00:48:07.050 ⇒ 00:48:14.450 Greg Stoutenburg: AI really isn’t that helpful. Like, it’s things like,
428 00:48:15.100 ⇒ 00:48:17.689 Greg Stoutenburg: tell this, you know, tell Global VetLink
429 00:48:17.800 ⇒ 00:48:29.640 Greg Stoutenburg: what in their Pendo implementation isn’t necessary given the new tracking plan? But I can’t just, like, hook something up to that tidbit to do that. Or, Eden wants to know, hey, what…
430 00:48:37.390 ⇒ 00:48:38.760 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe I’ll come back…
431 00:48:43.990 ⇒ 00:48:46.339 Pranav Narahari: Have you ever heard any good things about Starlink?
432 00:48:47.600 ⇒ 00:48:48.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
433 00:48:48.710 ⇒ 00:48:49.390 Pranav Narahari: Yeah?
434 00:48:49.650 ⇒ 00:48:53.230 Uttam Kumaran: Like, really good things. Like, a lot of people love it.
435 00:48:53.690 ⇒ 00:48:57.319 Pranav Narahari: It’s not even that expensive, right? It’s, like, $50 a month?
436 00:48:57.830 ⇒ 00:48:59.279 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s not that bad.
437 00:48:59.280 ⇒ 00:49:00.060 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
438 00:49:00.870 ⇒ 00:49:04.600 Uttam Kumaran: I think for people that go camping and stuff, it’s, like, sick.
439 00:49:05.120 ⇒ 00:49:08.320 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah, or if, like, you’re taking work calls, honestly.
440 00:49:08.320 ⇒ 00:49:09.590 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
441 00:49:10.110 ⇒ 00:49:10.970 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
442 00:49:11.440 ⇒ 00:49:14.919 Uttam Kumaran: I need to get a new iPhone, that’s the biggest thing, because my thing sucks.
443 00:49:15.170 ⇒ 00:49:20.400 Pranav Narahari: I just… I just upgraded. I was getting flamed for my… my super old iPhone before.
444 00:49:29.700 ⇒ 00:49:39.729 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, one thing on the Workstream owner thing that I’m noticing is, like, I just feel like I’m kind of just, like, a mini CSO on Eden right now, too.
445 00:49:39.980 ⇒ 00:49:43.330 Pranav Narahari: But for Eden AI, of course, not on Eden.
446 00:49:43.780 ⇒ 00:49:47.680 Pranav Narahari: like, I don’t know anything else that’s really happening on the other work streams.
447 00:49:47.790 ⇒ 00:49:52.930 Pranav Narahari: But I think that’s kind of the idea, right? Being the workstream owner, you are kind of like a mini CSO.
448 00:49:53.820 ⇒ 00:49:56.969 Pranav Narahari: Right? Like, is there much difference between…
449 00:49:57.170 ⇒ 00:50:03.419 Pranav Narahari: what you’re doing as a workstream owner versus a, like, I guess for me, being CSO of ABC?
450 00:50:05.100 ⇒ 00:50:13.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, for me, the… I’m sort of thinking about, I’m sort of thinking about…
451 00:50:13.380 ⇒ 00:50:15.490 Uttam Kumaran: Couple things. One is,
452 00:50:16.400 ⇒ 00:50:24.929 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know in the long term whether… how I’m gonna do Workstream ownership versus CSO. I don’t know whether there’d be a client owner and a workstream owner and, like.
453 00:50:25.140 ⇒ 00:50:28.219 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know yet how that’s gonna shake out.
454 00:50:28.350 ⇒ 00:50:35.429 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So… I feel like…
455 00:50:36.630 ⇒ 00:50:46.639 Uttam Kumaran: for now, everybody’s sort of helping wherever they can, like, we don’t have enough people, but I think it will shake out to, like, client success owners become truly, like.
456 00:50:46.820 ⇒ 00:50:52.270 Uttam Kumaran: account management, and then on your team, you sort of have, like, team… you have, like, workstream leads.
457 00:50:52.410 ⇒ 00:51:00.740 Uttam Kumaran: And I think Workstream Lead will become the stepping stone to… maybe CSO.
458 00:51:01.290 ⇒ 00:51:02.150 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
459 00:51:02.550 ⇒ 00:51:08.710 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, that makes sense. And probably per work stream, too, there’s going to be, like, a…
460 00:51:08.960 ⇒ 00:51:16.700 Pranav Narahari: like, a sponsor on the… on the client side as well. And so, for Eden, I guess, I’m not interacting directly with
461 00:51:17.510 ⇒ 00:51:24.110 Pranav Narahari: maybe… well, Danny’s still gonna be part of a lot of the calls, but I know Robert is also having his own call with
462 00:51:24.290 ⇒ 00:51:28.420 Pranav Narahari: with Danny, probably talking about all the work streams.
463 00:51:28.540 ⇒ 00:51:36.559 Pranav Narahari: And so, that’s where I feel like, okay, as CSO of Eden, that’s what you do, that’s not what the workstream owner does. But then…
464 00:51:36.790 ⇒ 00:51:44.569 Pranav Narahari: it’s kind of like how I’m talking to Yvette and Janice, I’m talking to Adam on the Eden AI project. So…
465 00:51:44.570 ⇒ 00:51:45.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
466 00:51:45.260 ⇒ 00:51:46.210 Pranav Narahari: It’s basically, I…
467 00:51:46.210 ⇒ 00:51:52.910 Uttam Kumaran: But see, but see, this is what I… I would prefer that… I mean, one is, like, on Eden AI,
468 00:51:53.050 ⇒ 00:51:58.550 Uttam Kumaran: like… it’s almost its own CSO. It’s almost its own… it’s its own SOW.
469 00:51:58.770 ⇒ 00:52:04.659 Uttam Kumaran: So I kind of see you as the CSO there, because that’s a net new signed SOW.
470 00:52:04.880 ⇒ 00:52:05.830 Pranav Narahari: Right. Yeah.
471 00:52:05.830 ⇒ 00:52:07.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yup.
472 00:52:07.670 ⇒ 00:52:15.970 Uttam Kumaran: So, maybe these are some things we iron out. Second is, like, dude, I want to see, like, Mustafa or Casey be like, yo, I want to own, like.
473 00:52:16.210 ⇒ 00:52:23.460 Uttam Kumaran: the relationship with the Yvette, and, like, or Janice, like, I want to own the chat, like, or pick, like, a specific technical lane.
474 00:52:23.700 ⇒ 00:52:30.300 Uttam Kumaran: You know, I… that’s what I’m trying to promote more of, is, like, give people a path up.
475 00:52:30.460 ⇒ 00:52:34.480 Uttam Kumaran: Because simply sitting as an IC is, like, not a growth path here.
476 00:52:35.090 ⇒ 00:52:35.750 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
477 00:52:39.330 ⇒ 00:52:43.820 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, that was… well, what you said before about, like,
478 00:52:44.170 ⇒ 00:52:52.450 Pranav Narahari: kind of it being its own, like, since it’s its own SOW, but also just because it’s, like, its own different type of service, you know?
479 00:52:53.150 ⇒ 00:52:59.280 Pranav Narahari: AI is just going to be different than a lot of the data work that’s already been done for…
480 00:52:59.590 ⇒ 00:53:05.449 Pranav Narahari: Eden, so, like, Sam is stepping in as SL, it’s not as much of, like.
481 00:53:06.450 ⇒ 00:53:15.680 Pranav Narahari: cross-team collaboration that all the other work streams were. So maybe, yeah, in that case, it does warrant having a completely different CSO.
482 00:53:15.960 ⇒ 00:53:21.990 Pranav Narahari: Along with Robert as, like, for Eden. So…
483 00:53:22.420 ⇒ 00:53:31.349 Pranav Narahari: But I guess it’s just based on how… it’s still going to all funnel up to Danny, it looks like, though. So, in that way, maybe it still just makes sense to have…
484 00:53:32.990 ⇒ 00:53:45.389 Pranav Narahari: well, unless we’re calling account manager and CSO different, like, I still think it probably just makes sense to have one account manager, but at least that’s how it’s looking right now for Eden anyways, like, Robert’s still just gonna be that account manager.
485 00:53:46.620 ⇒ 00:53:54.680 Pranav Narahari: And for… I mean, I am basically just CSO for the Eden AI project right now, right? Whether it’s called Workstream Owner or not, like…
486 00:53:55.330 ⇒ 00:53:57.279 Pranav Narahari: It’s basically just the same thing.
487 00:53:57.910 ⇒ 00:54:03.970 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s where maybe one question I can have is, like, do we want to align CSOs with
488 00:54:06.710 ⇒ 00:54:08.450 Uttam Kumaran: SOWs, basically.
489 00:54:08.620 ⇒ 00:54:11.490 Uttam Kumaran: But maybe I can think about it a little bit more.
490 00:54:13.990 ⇒ 00:54:23.740 Pranav Narahari: I thought they were always… I thought, like, workstream owners were kind of aligned with SOWs. Like…
491 00:54:24.330 ⇒ 00:54:28.709 Pranav Narahari: Is there gonna be, like, an SOW where we have, like, two work streams?
492 00:54:31.690 ⇒ 00:54:37.000 Greg Stoutenburg: We have. I thought the most recent change was to have the CSO be essentially an account manager.
493 00:54:37.180 ⇒ 00:54:37.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
494 00:54:38.510 ⇒ 00:54:41.480 Greg Stoutenburg: Personally, I thought that made a lot of sense. I thought that was a good thing.
495 00:54:41.480 ⇒ 00:54:47.530 Uttam Kumaran: I just think, like, for a company… for a company like Eden, though, I’m almost, like.
496 00:54:49.090 ⇒ 00:54:52.450 Uttam Kumaran: if you think about, like, Robert in that situation is, like.
497 00:54:52.990 ⇒ 00:54:56.010 Uttam Kumaran: than just the next evolution of CSO, basically.
498 00:54:56.140 ⇒ 00:55:01.149 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I agree. I don’t think we have a word for it. Yeah, that… and the whole Eden…
499 00:55:01.710 ⇒ 00:55:06.770 Greg Stoutenburg: the whole Eden arrangement is so, it’s so Robert’s thing.
500 00:55:07.580 ⇒ 00:55:11.200 Greg Stoutenburg: that… yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know that it maps on easily to.
501 00:55:11.200 ⇒ 00:55:14.970 Uttam Kumaran: Well, Al, for example, like, Element, I just don’t know, like.
502 00:55:15.400 ⇒ 00:55:23.289 Uttam Kumaran: I think this is where we have to… we decide that I want… I want you guys to see it. This is where I think there’s two things. One, it’s gonna be probably revenue-based.
503 00:55:23.800 ⇒ 00:55:32.309 Uttam Kumaran: So right now, the clients that you’re on, right, like, I think anytime a client gets, like, 50,000, $60,000 a month.
504 00:55:32.570 ⇒ 00:55:48.380 Uttam Kumaran: it’s just a different ballgame, and I think, like, I want to get you guys there. Because anyone that comes and joins a CSO, I want to give them, like, smaller stuff, because they’ll figure that out, and then I want to show you what it’s like to manage, like, a $50,000 project.
505 00:55:48.590 ⇒ 00:55:52.469 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, $50,000 a month, multiple work streams, like…
506 00:55:52.880 ⇒ 00:56:01.400 Uttam Kumaran: how do you deal with that? That’s gonna be, I think, just the evolution of this role. And I think, like, I don’t… maybe it’s not… I don’t think it’s worth saying.
507 00:56:02.200 ⇒ 00:56:12.960 Uttam Kumaran: like, CSO1, CSO2. I think it’s like, look, some of these… right now, I think we’re gonna… we’re just gonna say some of these clients deserve more attention. It’s all CSO.
508 00:56:13.170 ⇒ 00:56:15.930 Uttam Kumaran: But there’s kind of levels to it, you know?
509 00:56:15.930 ⇒ 00:56:17.409 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. So… Yeah, yeah.
510 00:56:17.410 ⇒ 00:56:34.730 Uttam Kumaran: that’s just it, like, at an Eden situation, there’s just so much going on, and it is a real exercise purely in account management, but, like, the intensity is high, the amount of things to juggle is high, the amount of workstreams is high, and so, like, I think I’m just… I’m gonna get you guys there.
511 00:56:34.860 ⇒ 00:56:38.519 Uttam Kumaran: And as the next bigger opportunity comes, you’ll be able to take it.
512 00:56:38.520 ⇒ 00:56:39.460 Pranav Narahari: You know? Yeah.
513 00:56:40.010 ⇒ 00:56:42.580 Uttam Kumaran: But right now, like, Robert and I, because
514 00:56:43.070 ⇒ 00:56:56.390 Uttam Kumaran: I think part of this is also back to, like, the intuition development. Like, that’s something that I think is gonna develop, especially a lot this quarter, where you’re gonna be able to see situations, recall, like, ways of handling
515 00:56:56.510 ⇒ 00:57:08.530 Uttam Kumaran: much better, because Robert and I are now… we’re good enough to just walk into any situation, and sort of, like, deal with it, and so I want to get you guys there, because that’s what’s really gonna cascade you
516 00:57:08.590 ⇒ 00:57:24.530 Uttam Kumaran: to those higher-level clients, and naturally, managing those higher-level clients means, like, bigger… like, the percentage of the deal is bigger, right? And so, that’s where the money is, is in managing and selling those bigger clients. Of course, like, those bigger ones, like.
517 00:57:24.740 ⇒ 00:57:40.310 Uttam Kumaran: they’re… they take a longer time, but that’s why I think attributing it closer to the money is a good indication, and I think as you develop your intuition, like, even Greg, you saw, like, some of the things about how Omni works, how the data models, you’ll pick up over time.
518 00:57:40.390 ⇒ 00:57:59.379 Uttam Kumaran: Or you’ll be able to say, I have a service lead with me, like, he’s here to answer any, like, great technical questions, just in case, right? Like, you guys will figure it out, and then it’s like, okay, how do you go from, let’s say, Pranav, the next jump is, like, imagine one Eden AI, and then imagine you get onto a company where there’s, like.
519 00:57:59.400 ⇒ 00:58:01.190 Uttam Kumaran: 5 different work streams.
520 00:58:01.530 ⇒ 00:58:06.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, like, that’s the leap I want to try to see for you guys.
521 00:58:06.420 ⇒ 00:58:23.780 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s the… that’s gonna… that’s gonna be really hard, but in order to do that, I need to flesh out that, like, technically, you can accomplish anything here, right? I want to make it easy, Pranav, for you to go sell data work, for Greg to sell AI work, right? Because every client, you guys are going to want to sell every service we have to them.
522 00:58:23.930 ⇒ 00:58:27.780 Uttam Kumaran: Like, Greg, you could go to default and be like, hey, did you know we do this thing in AI?
523 00:58:28.700 ⇒ 00:58:29.769 Uttam Kumaran: They’re gonna be like, oh, I had no idea.
524 00:58:29.770 ⇒ 00:58:30.440 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
525 00:58:30.440 ⇒ 00:58:46.120 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, your confidence in selling that, your confidence in partnering with the service lead to then craft the story, that’s actually what matters. So you guys, your purview will get broader in terms of, like, the services you’re able to sell.
526 00:58:46.460 ⇒ 00:58:52.380 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s how you’re gonna expand clients. It’s… it’s not gonna be in… it’s gonna be in cross-selling services.
527 00:58:52.600 ⇒ 00:58:57.719 Uttam Kumaran: It’s gonna be nailing the renewal, and it’s gonna be in cross-selling services.
528 00:58:59.200 ⇒ 00:59:11.719 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s where I wanna… I think you’re gonna… you guys are gonna have some good opportunities to do that this quarter, and then… and then it’s gonna be taking on CSO for the next biggest client that’s coming. Like, we’re gonna start selling some of these big ones,
529 00:59:12.190 ⇒ 00:59:17.560 Uttam Kumaran: And then we’re gonna… I’m gonna bring on more CSOs to sort of take on some of the easy ones, you know, so…
530 00:59:24.730 ⇒ 00:59:25.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah
531 00:59:29.970 ⇒ 00:59:34.819 Greg Stoutenburg: For me, nothing immediately else comes to mind. I missed out on some of what you were saying about…
532 00:59:34.820 ⇒ 00:59:38.739 Uttam Kumaran: I also missed out on what you were… I missed out on what you were saying right at the start.
533 00:59:38.740 ⇒ 00:59:42.410 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s too bad. No, I…
534 00:59:43.520 ⇒ 00:59:51.640 Greg Stoutenburg: No, I said that for me, when it comes down to what I need for help from a service lead, partly depends on what’s the split between
535 00:59:51.930 ⇒ 00:59:57.750 Greg Stoutenburg: basically IC work versus account manager work, as we define it for the CSO.
536 00:59:57.880 ⇒ 01:00:01.749 Greg Stoutenburg: And I… I mean, I feel a little bit like a broken drum on this. I know I still.
537 01:00:01.750 ⇒ 01:00:02.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
538 01:00:02.140 ⇒ 01:00:10.800 Greg Stoutenburg: in Slack with you and Robert, and then also, like, a week or so ago. But for me, like, yeah, it depends very much on, like, where the focus goes then.
539 01:00:11.090 ⇒ 01:00:12.450 Greg Stoutenburg: And what the workload is.
540 01:00:12.950 ⇒ 01:00:13.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
541 01:00:14.400 ⇒ 01:00:15.170 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay. Yeah.
542 01:00:21.090 ⇒ 01:00:27.829 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Alright, I feel like this was good. I’ll have some changes for you guys, and yeah, I’ll let you know.
543 01:00:28.390 ⇒ 01:00:29.530 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, sounds good.
544 01:00:29.880 ⇒ 01:00:30.200 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
545 01:00:30.200 ⇒ 01:00:31.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool? Alright. Thanks, guys.
546 01:00:33.150 ⇒ 01:00:34.980 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, talk soon. Bye, guys.