2026-03-24_service_leads_q2_planning_12b93c31

Meeting Title: Service Leads Q2 Planning Date: 2026-03-24 Meeting participants: Brylle Girang, Awaish Kumar, Samuel Roberts, Uttam Kumaran, Demilade Agboola, Jasmin Multani, Awaish Kumar

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WEBVTT

1 00:01:30.290 ⇒ 00:01:31.310 Samuel Roberts: Hello!

2 00:01:35.590 ⇒ 00:01:36.450 Brylle Girang: Hello!

3 00:01:36.870 ⇒ 00:01:37.440 Awaish Kumar: Right?

4 00:01:37.620 ⇒ 00:01:38.870 Samuel Roberts: How are you guys?

5 00:01:40.370 ⇒ 00:01:42.359 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I agree with you.

6 00:01:43.340 ⇒ 00:01:44.840 Samuel Roberts: Doing alright, doing alright.

7 00:02:15.110 ⇒ 00:02:20.760 Brylle Girang: Awash, I got some updates on the deck. I’m going to post it, and then I’ll wait for your review.

8 00:02:34.910 ⇒ 00:02:35.870 Uttam Kumaran: Hey guys.

9 00:02:36.470 ⇒ 00:02:37.310 Samuel Roberts: Hello.

10 00:02:39.160 ⇒ 00:02:40.570 Uttam Kumaran: Anyways, showers break.

11 00:02:42.310 ⇒ 00:02:43.839 Awaish Kumar: Hello, it was good.

12 00:02:44.390 ⇒ 00:02:49.199 Awaish Kumar: Wake was good, but, a lot of messages on Slack.

13 00:02:49.550 ⇒ 00:02:51.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course.

14 00:02:52.700 ⇒ 00:02:54.979 Uttam Kumaran: How about you, Sam? How was the wedding?

15 00:02:55.080 ⇒ 00:02:55.680 Uttam Kumaran: Stuff.

16 00:02:55.680 ⇒ 00:02:57.630 Samuel Roberts: I think it was a blast.

17 00:02:57.630 ⇒ 00:02:59.120 Uttam Kumaran: How was he officiating?

18 00:02:59.730 ⇒ 00:03:01.390 Samuel Roberts: Appreciating was,

19 00:03:03.600 ⇒ 00:03:14.160 Samuel Roberts: I… I wrote out… so, like, they are very Type A, they had the whole ceremony planned out, and then it was just like the, Sam, your sermon goes here, and I was like, okay, so I don’t have to worry about putting together the ceremony, that’s great. I wrote my little…

20 00:03:14.340 ⇒ 00:03:20.859 Samuel Roberts: you know, blurb. My sister had officiated my wedding, so I kind of called back to that and, like, had a bunch of little things.

21 00:03:20.860 ⇒ 00:03:35.750 Samuel Roberts: And then I wrote it all, I edited it all, I transcribed it into a notebook that my sister’s fiance gave me at Christmas that they were all using, so it was, like, this really nice thing, and everything was fine until I’m practicing it the 10 minutes before, and I got real emotional halfway through, and was like.

22 00:03:35.750 ⇒ 00:03:36.230 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, man.

23 00:03:36.230 ⇒ 00:03:45.409 Samuel Roberts: a good sign, and then sure enough, I basically cried the entire time I gave it, and was just like, I really thought I could make it a little farther than

24 00:03:45.750 ⇒ 00:03:50.289 Samuel Roberts: the first line, but honestly, it… it just made it special, like, everything else went fine.

25 00:03:50.290 ⇒ 00:03:50.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

26 00:03:50.740 ⇒ 00:04:08.520 Samuel Roberts: Not that that wasn’t fine, like, I still did it, they’re married, it’s all… you know what I mean? Like, everything went right, and it was a blast. Everyone had a good time. Driving back in the thunderstorms in Pennsylvania on Sunday, after, like, two days of partying and hanging out with my whole family and friends and stuff was a long day, but,

27 00:04:08.580 ⇒ 00:04:11.250 Samuel Roberts: We made it back safely, so that’s all I care about.

28 00:04:11.350 ⇒ 00:04:13.820 Samuel Roberts: Okay, okay. Good time, though, good time. Yeah.

29 00:04:14.720 ⇒ 00:04:15.420 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.

30 00:04:16.029 ⇒ 00:04:18.740 Uttam Kumaran: Jasmine, you get… you’re… I assume you’re in New York.

31 00:04:18.930 ⇒ 00:04:19.730 Uttam Kumaran: Safely.

32 00:04:20.420 ⇒ 00:04:24.559 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, I mean, they still had the plane crash on the runway.

33 00:04:25.080 ⇒ 00:04:26.020 Uttam Kumaran: Oh my god.

34 00:04:26.020 ⇒ 00:04:32.650 Jasmin Multani: That’s right. Yeah, yeah. So I didn’t see it, but, like, my… the person who was sitting next to me was just…

35 00:04:32.990 ⇒ 00:04:47.890 Jasmin Multani: amazed at it, and I’m like, I don’t need to see that. Yeah, yeah. I know, and… ICE agents? Yeah, that… they were deployed, but thankfully… Wow. Thankfully, I,

36 00:04:48.180 ⇒ 00:04:53.889 Jasmin Multani: my flight was at midnight last night, so I think I was operating just outside their usual hours.

37 00:04:54.090 ⇒ 00:05:00.900 Jasmin Multani: I don’t think they’re, they’re keen on late hours, so… I think I…

38 00:05:01.050 ⇒ 00:05:07.640 Jasmin Multani: I was worried the whole day, but I got by. And now I just literally walk through the door to my hotel.

39 00:05:08.040 ⇒ 00:05:11.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, great. Well, hopefully, I think this should be, like.

40 00:05:12.060 ⇒ 00:05:16.389 Uttam Kumaran: This should be pretty productive. I feel like I just wanted to meet with everybody.

41 00:05:16.580 ⇒ 00:05:20.300 Uttam Kumaran: On the service lead side, I’m just pulling a couple things up.

42 00:05:21.390 ⇒ 00:05:21.920 Samuel Roberts: Absolutely.

43 00:05:24.020 ⇒ 00:05:28.410 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, just to set the scene, I’ve…

44 00:05:28.560 ⇒ 00:05:33.830 Uttam Kumaran: for the last, probably, 3 weeks, I’ve spent, like, as much… one chunk of,

45 00:05:33.880 ⇒ 00:05:49.519 Uttam Kumaran: my brain is thinking really, really hard about the CSO SL model, thinking about how I feel really comfortable, you know, removing the engagement planners, but also in talking to, you know, everybody here, I want to make it really clear

46 00:05:49.770 ⇒ 00:06:01.640 Uttam Kumaran: why I want to make the SL role just as important as the CSO, and actually give extremely clear expectations. I think one thing going into this quarter is gonna be

47 00:06:01.740 ⇒ 00:06:08.740 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of just, like, let’s nail, like, the basics. I think one thing that,

48 00:06:09.240 ⇒ 00:06:11.380 Uttam Kumaran: One thing that was,

49 00:06:12.200 ⇒ 00:06:17.899 Uttam Kumaran: One thing that was great this quarter is, like, we elevated Robert and I outside of, like, a fair bit of delivery.

50 00:06:18.090 ⇒ 00:06:27.849 Uttam Kumaran: I think what happened, though, is a lot of the ways that we deliver, we never really, like, codified. And so, when we come in and say, hey, this thing is not the way we expect.

51 00:06:28.160 ⇒ 00:06:45.549 Uttam Kumaran: we also need to provide what is the expectation? And I think there was some stuff that’s been unwritten, some stuff that has been written, and I just want to make sure that, like, everything is written, and there are standards to fall back to in case, like, an example of something isn’t there. So let me just…

52 00:06:45.610 ⇒ 00:06:51.150 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of highlight a couple things, and then, we can, you know, we can jump into it.

53 00:07:08.800 ⇒ 00:07:09.960 Uttam Kumaran: One sec…

54 00:07:25.200 ⇒ 00:07:30.189 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so… I want to share, like,

55 00:07:31.960 ⇒ 00:07:35.229 Uttam Kumaran: broadly how I’m thinking about this,

56 00:07:36.080 ⇒ 00:07:47.599 Uttam Kumaran: new delivery plan, but really, again, I think I’m gonna be leveraging our platform as much as possible to save these plans. And so one thing that,

57 00:07:48.370 ⇒ 00:07:51.570 Uttam Kumaran: One thing that I’m working on, is basically…

58 00:07:52.030 ⇒ 00:08:10.049 Uttam Kumaran: really aligning what I will call knowledge. And so, I have knowledge, as previously, if you would have seen vaults and playbooks, I’ve sort of consolidated it all. And really, for this team, all of the knowledge for our team is broadly going to be in delivery.

59 00:08:10.110 ⇒ 00:08:16.020 Uttam Kumaran: And so, one thing that I’ve done, is really tried to work on

60 00:08:16.100 ⇒ 00:08:29.799 Uttam Kumaran: standards for delivery for our team. And so when I think about delivery, I think about, four roles. I think about me as head of delivery, but, like, broadly, head of delivery. I think about

61 00:08:29.940 ⇒ 00:08:34.120 Uttam Kumaran: CSOs, I think about service leads, and I think about ICs.

62 00:08:34.200 ⇒ 00:08:53.309 Uttam Kumaran: And so, the way to think about this is that there are, this is the, like, sort of diagram. There’s a head of delivery, CSO and SLs report up and to… and work with each other, and then there’s ICs. So, one thing that I’m proud of is this has created at least a one degree of separation

63 00:08:53.350 ⇒ 00:08:59.509 Uttam Kumaran: For a group that’s gonna start to increase, right? The rate at which we hire on more ICs is gonna increase

64 00:08:59.700 ⇒ 00:09:05.349 Uttam Kumaran: Right, we… CSOs and SLs are mapped towards services and clients, and…

65 00:09:05.610 ⇒ 00:09:14.210 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we’re on the path towards having a full book of that crew, including y’all. Then we will kind of move towards having more ICs.

66 00:09:14.310 ⇒ 00:09:27.280 Uttam Kumaran: But one thing that I want to share about this folder is, like, this is gonna be where, if there are questions about how we deliver, what the expectations are for each one of those roles, what is a project lifecycle.

67 00:09:27.280 ⇒ 00:09:35.000 Uttam Kumaran: everything is going to be here, and I think in a very, very, like, clear and concise way, we will continue to reference back

68 00:09:35.150 ⇒ 00:09:38.320 Uttam Kumaran: To this folder, and the docs in this folder about

69 00:09:38.540 ⇒ 00:09:45.579 Uttam Kumaran: About in any event where there’s ambiguity, in any event where there is, like, a conflict,

70 00:09:45.760 ⇒ 00:09:47.880 Uttam Kumaran: And what is the measure of, like.

71 00:09:47.990 ⇒ 00:09:59.640 Uttam Kumaran: excellence, and what is the measure of the floor for delivery. So, just to start, if I talk about, like, roles and responsibilities, this model is going to define not only the standards.

72 00:09:59.800 ⇒ 00:10:09.900 Uttam Kumaran: it’s gonna define, like, the checkpoints, right? So, standards define the floor, checkpoints enforce the floor, roles define who is accountable.

73 00:10:10.030 ⇒ 00:10:16.290 Uttam Kumaran: And so there are four core roles, and today I want to focus really heavily on the service lead role.

74 00:10:16.390 ⇒ 00:10:29.420 Uttam Kumaran: And really, the reason why, you know, we originally decided on this role structure, I think for folks, you know, that… I think, you know, for Jasmine and for B, is one… one thing that we’ve done, interestingly, is we’ve… we’ve…

75 00:10:29.420 ⇒ 00:10:36.610 Uttam Kumaran: We have a team of amazing engineers that also have the capacity to plan and do a level of account management, so…

76 00:10:36.610 ⇒ 00:10:43.860 Uttam Kumaran: Typically, on a client team, you have… you have an engineering lead, you have ICs, you have a project manager and account manager. We’ve collapsed that.

77 00:10:44.030 ⇒ 00:10:54.220 Uttam Kumaran: Partly due to AI, partly due to amazing people, partly now, hopefully, due to really clear standards. And so, one thing that I wanted to share is, like.

78 00:10:54.310 ⇒ 00:11:09.999 Uttam Kumaran: these are gonna be the standards for our entire delivery team. And I’m interested in you guys spending some time reading through these and really taking this and underst… and debating if this is, like, if you guys align, but ultimately.

79 00:11:10.460 ⇒ 00:11:17.840 Uttam Kumaran: In the event that there is not a clear standard or clear way of moving, always we’re gonna fall back to these

80 00:11:18.540 ⇒ 00:11:27.359 Uttam Kumaran: Standards. Own the outcome, no surprises, show prepared, distill complexity, deliver value, and close the loop.

81 00:11:27.500 ⇒ 00:11:35.610 Uttam Kumaran: And so there’s a difference between standards, and there’s a difference between, like, what is excellent. And so I will also be going into that, but…

82 00:11:35.960 ⇒ 00:11:44.439 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve spent a lot of time, and I know this can almost feel, like, a little bit, like, wishy-washy, like a mission statement, like, that is not the goal here.

83 00:11:44.480 ⇒ 00:11:57.099 Uttam Kumaran: Ultimately, any work product that we put out, and any way of working needs to be able to ladder up to say, did we fulfill each of these? Another way of thinking about it is if you were to look at the end of the week, or at the end of the month.

84 00:11:57.170 ⇒ 00:12:11.789 Uttam Kumaran: all actions will be kind of guided back to this piece. This was formed sort of out of, like, us thinking a lot about what are the ways that expectations were not made clear, what are the common times where

85 00:12:11.880 ⇒ 00:12:25.160 Uttam Kumaran: conflicts happen between team members, or team members and clients, and trying to create, like, a way to judge, you know, whether we have done a good job. And so I feel really comfortable with these. I did a lot of research on, sort of.

86 00:12:25.360 ⇒ 00:12:37.549 Uttam Kumaran: banks, on, other sort of marketing agencies, on other consultancies, on, like, as I said, like, Michelin star restaurants, and I feel like what you’re gonna see throughout this document is

87 00:12:37.700 ⇒ 00:12:42.220 Uttam Kumaran: always referring… referring back to these standards.

88 00:12:42.450 ⇒ 00:12:48.999 Uttam Kumaran: The next piece I want to talk through is, is checkpoints. And so, there’s going to be checkpoints.

89 00:12:49.000 ⇒ 00:13:02.690 Uttam Kumaran: For each of those roles. Part of this is that, yes, you can set the standards, but there’s going to be, like, a governor. Basically, a good example is of, like, hey, the CSO and the SLs work on a plan, and there’s a project review meeting.

90 00:13:02.760 ⇒ 00:13:08.899 Uttam Kumaran: That meeting is the gate to then move to actual execution. So this is also really helpful because

91 00:13:09.130 ⇒ 00:13:10.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, like.

92 00:13:10.750 ⇒ 00:13:20.419 Uttam Kumaran: I am… I’m actually gonna be a lot weaker with the day-to-day management, but I’m gonna be a lot stronger with the checkpoints. Meaning, questions like, hey, like.

93 00:13:20.530 ⇒ 00:13:30.279 Uttam Kumaran: who should be owning linear, or, like, how should I run this meeting? I’m not going to govern, right? Instead, what I’m going to govern is say, you have to pass these checkpoints.

94 00:13:30.350 ⇒ 00:13:38.719 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s freeing in two ways. One, it removes me from the micromanagement loop. Second, it builds everybody’s intuition.

95 00:13:38.720 ⇒ 00:13:52.649 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And intuition needs to be governed by these standards. In a moment where you’re debating a process, you always can look back to a standard and say, this is the way we operate, so it’s obvious that we should go this direction, versus

96 00:13:52.730 ⇒ 00:13:59.790 Uttam Kumaran: like, asking about a process question that needs to go roll up. So, you could say this is the pro… these are the processes that

97 00:13:59.910 ⇒ 00:14:13.680 Uttam Kumaran: the delivery leadership team is putting in place. In terms… I think I’m just gonna go through the whole section, but assume that there are some meetings and some checkpoints that are… that are really codified, and I’ll come back to that.

98 00:14:14.050 ⇒ 00:14:27.109 Uttam Kumaran: The next piece is the project lifecycle, and so this is also something that maybe was not clear to everybody, and now I think is extremely clear to me, which is we sell an SOW,

99 00:14:27.360 ⇒ 00:14:32.930 Uttam Kumaran: You could go left of this, and you can see this may be a new client, this may be an existing client.

100 00:14:33.110 ⇒ 00:14:36.379 Uttam Kumaran: We sell an SOW, which is a paid scope of work.

101 00:14:36.470 ⇒ 00:14:54.660 Uttam Kumaran: That then goes into a project plan. The project plan is reviewed in a project review meeting. There are multiple sign-offs by the SL, by the CSO, by me, and then by the client. It then moves to linear execution, and then there’s… in case there’s material change to the plan, we can go through re-review.

102 00:14:55.720 ⇒ 00:15:08.630 Uttam Kumaran: I think this is, like, basically it. I think we’ve done this a couple times, I think we had different templates for different things, but I feel pretty comfortable that this is the way for us to operate pretty simply this quarter. I don’t see…

103 00:15:08.780 ⇒ 00:15:11.450 Uttam Kumaran: I think if we just execute this, we’re actually gonna be…

104 00:15:11.650 ⇒ 00:15:14.079 Uttam Kumaran: In a lot better place, like, with no added…

105 00:15:14.350 ⇒ 00:15:28.039 Uttam Kumaran: you know, sauce onto this. And I also think that what this is gonna force us to do is actually care much, much more about the plan, as AI and things are gonna actually gonna take over a lot of the execution over time.

106 00:15:28.040 ⇒ 00:15:36.049 Uttam Kumaran: And this is ultimately where, like, the delivery leads and the head of delivery have to work really, really hard.

107 00:15:36.050 ⇒ 00:15:54.529 Uttam Kumaran: And you’re gonna see how I’ve broken up the service lead responsibilities from the CSO, from the head of delivery, and how we all work together to basically nail this plan and deliver on the plan for the client, right? So there’s some pieces here on, like, the SOW and different areas, but

108 00:15:54.650 ⇒ 00:15:59.039 Uttam Kumaran: Any questions on, like, The delivery lifecycle.

109 00:15:59.510 ⇒ 00:16:06.310 Uttam Kumaran: like, I want to just make sure each piece that I’ve covered so far, everybody has a lot of clarity on, and you get it.

110 00:16:08.930 ⇒ 00:16:16.380 Samuel Roberts: I’m wondering about the stuff before the SOW a little bit. And it may be just, like, we don’t have as well-defined, like.

111 00:16:16.630 ⇒ 00:16:22.230 Samuel Roberts: service offerings in AI yet, as we might for data, where things are a little more… you know…

112 00:16:22.330 ⇒ 00:16:24.829 Samuel Roberts: per project, so I’m wondering where…

113 00:16:25.130 ⇒ 00:16:28.900 Samuel Roberts: some of that might fall for CSOs and SLs.

114 00:16:29.540 ⇒ 00:16:46.349 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I would say we actually do have… I’ve taken a crack at the defined services. I think I… I don’t think it’s in this delivery section, but I do have clarity on what are the services within

115 00:16:46.400 ⇒ 00:16:49.749 Uttam Kumaran: each service area.

116 00:16:50.210 ⇒ 00:17:07.970 Uttam Kumaran: So, when you think about it from two angles, from the CSO perspective, I want them to be able to say, great, we sold a client on this outcome, what services are necessary to do that? You need a data thing, you need an account, you need a dbt thing, and they’re gonna be able to pull that down.

117 00:17:08.119 ⇒ 00:17:26.879 Uttam Kumaran: versus the SLs are going to be focused on making sure that those things are available to pull down, and that anything they pull is held to an extremely high standard, right? Again, like, an explanation could be, like, in a Michelin star kitchen, you have someone that works dessert station, but the customer gets a whole

118 00:17:27.160 ⇒ 00:17:39.230 Uttam Kumaran: course, right? So it doesn’t… meaning someone cares a lot. And then finally, there’s also, like, someone who’s at the pass, who, like, makes sure that everything going out to the client is top-notch.

119 00:17:39.400 ⇒ 00:17:49.989 Uttam Kumaran: that is more of the CSO versus someone is driving each station in an entire meal. That’s, like, what the service lead is. So, yes, we’re gonna get clients.

120 00:17:49.990 ⇒ 00:18:02.479 Uttam Kumaran: the salespeople… right now, sales and CSOs work pretty closely together to define these SOWs. I would say this group’s job is to make what those services are, what the outcomes are.

121 00:18:02.980 ⇒ 00:18:18.210 Uttam Kumaran: as clear and as repeatable as possible. I think, Jasmine, when you work, I feel like we, like… what we’ve tried to do in the past is do playbooks, and I think that’s gonna be a big part of this quarter, is, like, how do we,

122 00:18:18.480 ⇒ 00:18:25.820 Uttam Kumaran: how do we actually drive towards reproducibility? One way that I’m thinking about is

123 00:18:26.120 ⇒ 00:18:30.559 Uttam Kumaran: this is something I was talking to someone yesterday. For example, how… how can I…

124 00:18:30.690 ⇒ 00:18:34.819 Uttam Kumaran: Set the incentive for the service leads to

125 00:18:35.080 ⇒ 00:18:54.969 Uttam Kumaran: create reproducible playbooks. Well, one thing it could be is, like, if your playbook gets used and actually helps to improve the speed or quality of a deliverable, a CSO can say, okay, here’s a bonus. And so we’re thinking about structures that allow for the creation of reproducible work over time.

126 00:18:55.110 ⇒ 00:18:59.570 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… that’s kind of, like, how I’m thinking about that relationship, you know?

127 00:19:01.740 ⇒ 00:19:03.660 Uttam Kumaran: Any other questions so far?

128 00:19:04.780 ⇒ 00:19:23.720 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, I had a question. So it feels like CSO… like, in the best-case scenario, I feel like after a roadmap or contract review, CSO and SL should meet together immediately and figure out the milestones, for a project.

129 00:19:23.720 ⇒ 00:19:37.600 Jasmin Multani: from there, how… how should the ICs rely on when to go to SL and when to go to CSO? Because I feel like there’s been… there’s been kind of, like, a… it feels like too many chefs in the kitchen sometimes.

130 00:19:38.180 ⇒ 00:19:46.800 Uttam Kumaran: Great question. Yeah, and this is where, like, I’m… I have a perspective, but I am interested in… in… in what y’all think. Also, like.

131 00:19:47.030 ⇒ 00:19:52.090 Uttam Kumaran: this is a plan that I’ve proposed, but I am interested in this group

132 00:19:52.330 ⇒ 00:19:54.859 Uttam Kumaran: If, like, for example, at the end of this week.

133 00:19:55.150 ⇒ 00:20:04.559 Uttam Kumaran: just to give a broader perspective, at the end of this week, I’m going to consider this plan in place. So if there are concerns about the way these folks are interacting with each other.

134 00:20:04.680 ⇒ 00:20:07.400 Uttam Kumaran: I really want to hear it, so it’s a great question.

135 00:20:07.570 ⇒ 00:20:25.730 Uttam Kumaran: My thought process is, given the amount of effort, and given how CSO is going to be more around account management and project management, I am more inclined to drive service lead towards, like, the typical roles of technical architecture and engineering management.

136 00:20:25.730 ⇒ 00:20:26.180 Jasmin Multani: management.

137 00:20:26.470 ⇒ 00:20:45.840 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I am part of… and we have a rollout plan for a lot of this, so it’s not gonna be, like, tomorrow. But I am interested in moving the service leads towards resource management, resource allocation. So that is not only… and then also, of course, like, moving you guys into, like, who do you need on your team?

138 00:20:46.220 ⇒ 00:21:01.680 Uttam Kumaran: I think part… you… just like the CSOs have a bunch of tools in their toolbox to do their job, for the service leads, there’s gonna be playbooks, there’s gonna be process, there’s gonna be learning and development. You also have your team. And so I… I feel like

139 00:21:01.850 ⇒ 00:21:21.389 Uttam Kumaran: the right… my recommendation is that the service lead is closer to the engineering manager, and is closer to the… to the architect, than they are, like, the client-facing. And for that reason, the ICs are probably gonna ladder up towards the SLs, more than

140 00:21:21.560 ⇒ 00:21:26.879 Uttam Kumaran: going to the CSOs for questions about how to do things.

141 00:21:27.160 ⇒ 00:21:30.450 Uttam Kumaran: You know, does that make sense? Or is that, like, what do you think about that?

142 00:21:31.600 ⇒ 00:21:49.820 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, I think that makes sense. That, like, that sounds great, but I think what also stuck out in your earlier conversation, before I asked the question was CSOs are gonna be checking the quality. So, if the IC

143 00:21:50.130 ⇒ 00:21:52.349 Jasmin Multani: if, like, the CSO is, like.

144 00:21:52.350 ⇒ 00:21:55.900 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… I wouldn’t say… I would say that’s… it’s a little bit different, and if I said that.

145 00:21:55.900 ⇒ 00:21:59.129 Jasmin Multani: Okay. Sorry, sorry, maybe I misheard that, yeah.

146 00:21:59.130 ⇒ 00:22:10.739 Uttam Kumaran: No, if I can make it a little bit more concrete, the CSO’s job is to execute the plan, right? And so, their job is to say, we agreed on this plan, here are the steps.

147 00:22:10.880 ⇒ 00:22:16.729 Uttam Kumaran: like, their job is to make sure the plan gets executed. If there are quality issues.

148 00:22:16.840 ⇒ 00:22:24.639 Uttam Kumaran: that is the CSO is gonna flag to the service lead. Okay. Yes, everybody on this team, like, the lovely part about our company is that

149 00:22:24.850 ⇒ 00:22:28.590 Uttam Kumaran: like, it’s not like working with PMs that have, like, no engineering background, like…

150 00:22:28.730 ⇒ 00:22:34.980 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning, it may be a little bit more like they actually are aware of a problem.

151 00:22:34.980 ⇒ 00:22:51.679 Uttam Kumaran: And that, like, they can explain what it is, but the responsibility for quality is gonna go towards the service lead. The responsibility for making sure, like, the fully baked thing gets out on the time is gonna be CSO, and there should be healthy back and forth, right?

152 00:22:51.680 ⇒ 00:23:03.449 Uttam Kumaran: For example, if a CSO comes and said, hey, we’re thinking about delivering XYZ thing in 4 weeks, you should look at it and be like, yo, there’s no way I can stamp this and hit the quality in 4 weeks.

153 00:23:03.480 ⇒ 00:23:10.700 Uttam Kumaran: And then… but then they should say, okay, let’s reach some level of compromise, and that’s what I’m expecting to see.

154 00:23:10.700 ⇒ 00:23:11.300 Jasmin Multani: And then.

155 00:23:11.300 ⇒ 00:23:24.149 Uttam Kumaran: Really, the way that service leads are gonna get judged, from my perspective, are going to be from adherence to prescribed timeline, given, like, no, non-controllable, like.

156 00:23:24.500 ⇒ 00:23:26.550 Uttam Kumaran: you know, interventions, meaning, like.

157 00:23:26.720 ⇒ 00:23:35.039 Uttam Kumaran: we put together… we said this was gonna take 8 weeks. Let’s say it takes 14 weeks. That’s gonna be how I try to hold the service leads accountable.

158 00:23:35.070 ⇒ 00:23:50.039 Uttam Kumaran: The second piece is going to be continuing to improve, the quality of the work and the speed of the work over time. Meaning, through playbooks, through standards and frameworks, we should see that over time.

159 00:23:50.180 ⇒ 00:24:06.170 Uttam Kumaran: work can get out faster, but for just this quarter, really, it’s gonna be around how many bugs come up in a given service line, and it’s gonna be adherence to timeline as, like, the two things that I’m trying to hold true for judging service line excellence.

160 00:24:07.760 ⇒ 00:24:09.340 Jasmin Multani: Okay, that’s, that’s really helpful.

161 00:24:09.730 ⇒ 00:24:10.280 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

162 00:24:13.050 ⇒ 00:24:18.489 Awaish Kumar: And we are defining those timelines, you know, on the SOWs, or…

163 00:24:18.490 ⇒ 00:24:24.859 Uttam Kumaran: No, in the project plans. So, this is another good point, is that for the SOWs.

164 00:24:25.030 ⇒ 00:24:32.950 Uttam Kumaran: really, the SOW’s gonna shift much more towards defining, like, an outcome on a broad timeline. So.

165 00:24:33.450 ⇒ 00:24:46.540 Uttam Kumaran: I think there has to… you’re bringing up a good point, is there has… I need to extend this a little bit to talk about how sales interacts with delivery. It’s… I just don’t have… didn’t have the time to finish that all out.

166 00:24:46.760 ⇒ 00:24:49.010 Uttam Kumaran: But you can assume that

167 00:24:49.250 ⇒ 00:25:01.869 Uttam Kumaran: I would say a fair assumption right now is to assume that all of our SOWs I’m involved in, or CSO is involved in, so we are making time recommendations that we feel is fair. I think…

168 00:25:02.000 ⇒ 00:25:11.039 Uttam Kumaran: and you could tell me wrong, like, we can involve more people in the sales process, or maybe create, like, an SOW review board or something, but…

169 00:25:11.230 ⇒ 00:25:17.700 Uttam Kumaran: I just don’t have the answer perfectly for you on, like, how SOWs are gonna,

170 00:25:18.560 ⇒ 00:25:22.530 Uttam Kumaran: you know, have accurate timelines. Although, for the most part, I think we’ve been okay there.

171 00:25:25.170 ⇒ 00:25:27.299 Uttam Kumaran: Does that sort of answer the question a little bit?

172 00:25:29.270 ⇒ 00:25:32.639 Awaish Kumar: I’m just concerned about, like, some of the things, they come up.

173 00:25:33.030 ⇒ 00:25:35.509 Awaish Kumar: In the… while we are implementing, like.

174 00:25:35.850 ⇒ 00:25:41.540 Awaish Kumar: for example, Springs API work on MagicStone, or the… working with…

175 00:25:41.780 ⇒ 00:25:43.419 Awaish Kumar: Like, some of the tools which…

176 00:25:43.700 ⇒ 00:25:46.680 Awaish Kumar: Come after we enter into the client’s…

177 00:25:47.010 ⇒ 00:25:49.719 Awaish Kumar: Platform and see what is there.

178 00:25:49.940 ⇒ 00:25:59.529 Awaish Kumar: Instead, we, like, we don’t know that at the time of SOW, what’s, going to come in front of us when we are into the systems of time.

179 00:26:02.130 ⇒ 00:26:08.549 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think the… I think it’s a good point. I can take that back and think about it, how this quarter we get tighter on the SOWs.

180 00:26:09.970 ⇒ 00:26:11.550 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ll have to think about it.

181 00:26:14.100 ⇒ 00:26:14.750 Awaish Kumar: Okay.

182 00:26:16.320 ⇒ 00:26:18.839 Demilade Agboola: So my question is more about…

183 00:26:19.650 ⇒ 00:26:26.069 Demilade Agboola: multiple SELs on the project, and how we interact, and how the interaction works, in the sense of…

184 00:26:26.750 ⇒ 00:26:28.020 Demilade Agboola: Say there, huh?

185 00:26:28.560 ⇒ 00:26:33.219 Demilade Agboola: We want to create a dashboard and help drive, you know.

186 00:26:33.660 ⇒ 00:26:36.689 Demilade Agboola: Revenue in a company, on a client.

187 00:26:36.850 ⇒ 00:26:39.959 Demilade Agboola: There are multiple potential SLs that will be on that.

188 00:26:40.550 ⇒ 00:26:41.420 Demilade Agboola: Client.

189 00:26:42.190 ⇒ 00:26:47.910 Demilade Agboola: How do we ensure that And sometimes these things are dependent on each other. So, for instance.

190 00:26:47.910 ⇒ 00:26:48.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

191 00:26:48.970 ⇒ 00:26:56.920 Demilade Agboola: there is an ingestion of data, if, you know, Sam is on a project and needs that data to train the AI, he cannot, you know.

192 00:26:57.270 ⇒ 00:27:00.259 Demilade Agboola: Get to work on that until the data comes in.

193 00:27:00.260 ⇒ 00:27:00.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

194 00:27:01.020 ⇒ 00:27:10.419 Demilade Agboola: My question is, like, number one, how do multiple SLs come into play? And number two, it will just be, like, how do we ensure that

195 00:27:11.030 ⇒ 00:27:13.260 Demilade Agboola: There is that clarity of, like.

196 00:27:13.410 ⇒ 00:27:23.640 Demilade Agboola: what is going on, so that, you know, one SL, or one unforeseen circumstance, or whatever, doesn’t, you know, trickle down into the…

197 00:27:24.350 ⇒ 00:27:25.060 Demilade Agboola: Project time.

198 00:27:25.060 ⇒ 00:27:25.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

199 00:27:25.540 ⇒ 00:27:26.310 Demilade Agboola: Okay, so…

200 00:27:27.080 ⇒ 00:27:44.690 Uttam Kumaran: Fair. So, one thing that I’m just gonna show is I want to show a little bit about how I have tried to architect the project review in a way that mitigates against this. So, if I go to project lifecycle, and I go to a project review process, there’s a project plan template here.

201 00:27:44.870 ⇒ 00:27:56.740 Uttam Kumaran: And one thing that I want to share is this is the bridge between SOW and linear, and so one thing that I want this template to support is the ability,

202 00:27:56.740 ⇒ 00:28:06.580 Uttam Kumaran: to actually outline the initiatives and outline the projects and milestones. So, for example, if you take Eden AI,

203 00:28:06.580 ⇒ 00:28:13.609 Uttam Kumaran: there is a bunch of data work that has to happen before the AI work can start happening. So…

204 00:28:13.610 ⇒ 00:28:33.130 Uttam Kumaran: ideally, those blockers need to be made clear in this project review. What I’m not interested at my level is I don’t really care about, like, ticket level blocks, or, like, I don’t care about the nuance of, like, the day-to-day, because this document is more about, hey, in 3 months.

205 00:28:33.140 ⇒ 00:28:38.610 Uttam Kumaran: This is where we want this client to be. Here’s what… here’s why this is gonna affect their, like, money.

206 00:28:38.650 ⇒ 00:28:41.559 Uttam Kumaran: Or their time, and here’s how we’re getting there.

207 00:28:41.840 ⇒ 00:28:57.360 Uttam Kumaran: So I want to start to elevate to give feedback at that level, and then in this document, this is where the CSO’s job is to own this document and own the presentation. So one way you can see me running this is this… this is actually going to be…

208 00:28:57.360 ⇒ 00:29:09.570 Uttam Kumaran: closer to what I feel like a kind of a thesis defense is gonna be, where a CSO is gonna come to the table with a project plan, and I’m gonna ask, like, a wide variety of questions.

209 00:29:09.630 ⇒ 00:29:15.609 Uttam Kumaran: A good example is, and I think there should be some information,

210 00:29:15.850 ⇒ 00:29:19.669 Uttam Kumaran: Here, which is just, like, there’s gonna be questions about, like.

211 00:29:19.860 ⇒ 00:29:21.659 Uttam Kumaran: How does this company make money?

212 00:29:22.230 ⇒ 00:29:23.030 Uttam Kumaran: Right.

213 00:29:23.230 ⇒ 00:29:25.319 Uttam Kumaran: How does this directly affect

214 00:29:25.440 ⇒ 00:29:34.349 Uttam Kumaran: our client stakeholder getting promoted. There’s also gonna be asks about, why did we go with X architecture?

215 00:29:34.450 ⇒ 00:29:49.629 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m expecting the CSO to either be able to answer it, or have, like, really immediate access to the answer. And so, it’s sort of like a grill session of that project plan, where I’m gonna be asking questions about

216 00:29:49.970 ⇒ 00:29:53.949 Uttam Kumaran: How are we pacing? How are… what are the blocking steps? What are the risks?

217 00:29:54.500 ⇒ 00:29:58.129 Uttam Kumaran: It’s up to the CSO to pull from the services and put that together.

218 00:29:58.840 ⇒ 00:30:03.530 Uttam Kumaran: I… I think that’s, like, that’s sort of how I’m thinking about we… we sort of guard against

219 00:30:03.850 ⇒ 00:30:08.040 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, this milestone needs to happen for this, you know, is that project review document.

220 00:30:15.680 ⇒ 00:30:16.940 Demilade Agboola: Okay, sounds good.

221 00:30:19.200 ⇒ 00:30:24.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, let me just go back to the stock…

222 00:30:25.490 ⇒ 00:30:38.070 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so we talked about, like, CSO and SLs. Yeah, I mean, this is, of course, I think the most important piece. I… I also, want to just share that I… I also flashed up a little bit about,

223 00:30:40.600 ⇒ 00:30:47.980 Uttam Kumaran: On the project lifecycle, and if I go to the… Project review process…

224 00:30:48.670 ⇒ 00:31:07.759 Uttam Kumaran: you’re gonna see here that I’ve… I’ve outlined the services, the subservices, and so I’m… I need to include… I did this, actually, like, 2 weeks ago. I need to include Demi here, I need to include, Zoran here, but this is roughly the services and subservices. I will… I will finalize this list, but…

225 00:31:08.490 ⇒ 00:31:22.890 Uttam Kumaran: I will say this is something that, like, as I spend time with each service lead, we can articulate, and you can own more about, like, what is a service, what are typical outcomes, when was the last time we did it, what is, you know, all the things around an individual’s service.

226 00:31:23.030 ⇒ 00:31:30.480 Uttam Kumaran: So, really, like, the CSO-SL partnership is, like, the primary thing, and then it’s head of delivery.

227 00:31:30.710 ⇒ 00:31:45.460 Uttam Kumaran: and then it’s ICs and CSO SLs. What you’re gonna see, as we start to recruit more and more, is this group’s time is gonna elevate above executing. So if you’re 80-20 writing a lot of code and 20% SL, we should see that flip.

228 00:31:45.480 ⇒ 00:31:55.050 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m trying to get ahead of it now, because, for example, Awash, we’re gonna hire more data people. Jasmine, you’re coming in, and we just brought in Advait, you also have…

229 00:31:55.090 ⇒ 00:32:03.260 Uttam Kumaran: Amber… you also have Amber as well, and Greg. Demi, we’re gonna try to bring in another AE, so I’m gonna move you guys up.

230 00:32:03.380 ⇒ 00:32:21.439 Uttam Kumaran: And so, that way, you’re gonna fill into this new model. For some teams, it’ll take some time, but this quarter is about hiring people, hiring ICs, and then hire… making sure that every service is an SL, which I feel pretty good about, and then every client has CSOs, which we’re still a little bit weak on.

231 00:32:21.500 ⇒ 00:32:27.099 Uttam Kumaran: So we’re… I’m making sure this middle structure is really, really good, and then I’m gonna staff people under you guys.

232 00:32:27.210 ⇒ 00:32:30.509 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and I think that’s gonna be…

233 00:32:30.920 ⇒ 00:32:45.729 Uttam Kumaran: It’s gonna be awesome, and so I want you guys to… by setting these standards, the next person that joins, you have a clear idea of how to get them to adhere to these standards as well, and something to fall back on when there is a conflict or a question.

234 00:32:48.190 ⇒ 00:33:00.620 Jasmin Multani: One, thing, one possible break that I’m anticipating and I’m already, feeling like it’s gonna happen is, let’s say…

235 00:33:00.870 ⇒ 00:33:12.650 Jasmin Multani: we have, like, core milestones that we want to gather. Sometimes I see that, like, with the feedback that I give or, other people give for analysis.

236 00:33:12.650 ⇒ 00:33:36.930 Jasmin Multani: new ideas will be quick-started that are beyond the scope of the initial milestones, and these ideas are really good, but, I have a feeling, like, a lot of conversation that happens in silo, like, let’s say, like, Amber and Abbey have a really great brainstorming session, and they’re like, oh, let’s, let’s, build all these other new topics, but, because they just had an

237 00:33:36.930 ⇒ 00:33:40.349 Jasmin Multani: silo conversation.

238 00:33:40.610 ⇒ 00:33:56.920 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. If I were… if I were to be in that room, if I happened to be in that room, there is a point where I would have been like, actually, this is beyond great ideas, but beyond the scope, let’s focus on XYZ before we do ABC. So I… but that’s, like, inevitable, right? Like, people are…

239 00:33:56.920 ⇒ 00:33:57.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

240 00:33:57.350 ⇒ 00:33:58.999 Jasmin Multani: have brainstorming sessions without us.

241 00:33:59.000 ⇒ 00:34:13.469 Uttam Kumaran: So let me tell you how I’m, like, thinking about… sorry to cut you off, I’ll tell you how I’m thinking about that. We are going to… there’s going to be a really great incentive for delivery source opportunities. So if you’re able to say… for example, one thing that I’m working with sales on is I’m like.

242 00:34:13.550 ⇒ 00:34:17.579 Uttam Kumaran: hey, I want to pay the delivery leads more money.

243 00:34:17.650 ⇒ 00:34:27.899 Uttam Kumaran: like, how do we… like, how… and I want to do that through delivery source opportunities. Let’s define what that is. So if you’re able to say, hey, we scoped out this new topic.

244 00:34:27.940 ⇒ 00:34:45.850 Uttam Kumaran: And we think that this is gonna drive X value, and you go to Shivani, and you’re like, hey, we can work on this, it’s out of our initial scope, but I’d like… I’d like to, do you… like, is this valuable? And she’s like, yeah, let’s scope it out. At that point, you can take, and I’m gonna have a little bit more concrete examples of, like.

245 00:34:46.050 ⇒ 00:34:52.800 Uttam Kumaran: what is a full opportunity. You can actually take that, submit it to sales, and get credit for it.

246 00:34:52.800 ⇒ 00:34:53.650 Jasmin Multani: Nice.

247 00:34:53.650 ⇒ 00:35:07.780 Uttam Kumaran: A good example is, like, if you have, like, an idea, like, hey, I heard they have, like, Tableau sitting somewhere, like, I wonder if we can go mess around in there. You have someone who’s gonna champion the initiative, and you’re able to communicate, like.

248 00:35:08.100 ⇒ 00:35:13.659 Uttam Kumaran: the value of the project for the client. That is enough to submit an opportunity to sales, and then

249 00:35:13.980 ⇒ 00:35:17.880 Uttam Kumaran: one thing I’m working on with them is, like, they’re gonna be able to determine

250 00:35:18.010 ⇒ 00:35:29.640 Uttam Kumaran: Like, for example, if you just pass the opportunity to them, that’s, like, one amount, and then if you work on it even deeper, there’s another amount. I’m just trying to keep it very simple this quarter.

251 00:35:29.640 ⇒ 00:35:41.970 Uttam Kumaran: So, either way, let’s say you just come up with, like, hey, there’s Tableau over there, I met with the head of… I met with the guy that runs Tableau, he’d love to work with us, and you just give that to sales, you’ll get paid, if that closes.

252 00:35:42.080 ⇒ 00:35:42.750 Jasmin Multani: That’s great.

253 00:35:42.750 ⇒ 00:35:43.180 Uttam Kumaran: That’s it.

254 00:35:43.700 ⇒ 00:35:57.430 Uttam Kumaran: Like, so that should hopefully incentivize you, like, when you’re in a client, and I think, Demi, you do a good job of this, and they’re like, yeah, we, like, we’re thinking about this other system, this other team owns that, and your choice is, like.

255 00:35:57.780 ⇒ 00:36:03.550 Uttam Kumaran: oh, I, like, maybe I should go talk to them, but, like, it’s out of scope. I want you to always say, talk to them.

256 00:36:03.930 ⇒ 00:36:11.829 Uttam Kumaran: And the way I’m gonna try to push that is because if you talk to them, and there is an opportunity there, and you sell it, you’re gonna make money.

257 00:36:11.830 ⇒ 00:36:26.169 Uttam Kumaran: And it could literally be your… probably… you could be one conversation away from, like, a significant percentage of that deal. And I always want you to incentivize to go further and meet that person, see if there’s some juice there, and then toss it back to sales.

258 00:36:26.240 ⇒ 00:36:32.909 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s how I would think about it. I think your… Jasmine, your service is gonna be prone to scope expansion.

259 00:36:32.910 ⇒ 00:36:33.620 Jasmin Multani: Yeah.

260 00:36:33.620 ⇒ 00:36:41.090 Uttam Kumaran: So, I think… but I… but I think glass half full is, like, it’s also probably the… once you produce, like.

261 00:36:41.170 ⇒ 00:36:57.300 Uttam Kumaran: an example dash of something, you could easily be like, well, this is out of scope, so, like, if you want us, we could do it, but then I have to go talk to sales again. And I’m telling you, for a lot of clients, they’re gonna be like, yeah, duh, let’s do it. In fact, the mistake we often make is

262 00:36:57.300 ⇒ 00:37:03.160 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we expand the scope, and then we do it anyways, and then we don’t make any money off of it.

263 00:37:03.160 ⇒ 00:37:13.739 Uttam Kumaran: it’s rarely the example that you said, which is, like, I feel like we do… we’re doing way too much for clients, you know, oftentimes. But I know how it can go both ways.

264 00:37:13.740 ⇒ 00:37:25.390 Uttam Kumaran: And I wanted there to be a clear process where that’s a great ability for you to say, okay, if the client wants it, let’s go see, let’s go measure, and are they willing to champion it? And then we’ll draft another SOW, you know?

265 00:37:25.810 ⇒ 00:37:27.800 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how I’m thinking about it.

266 00:37:28.050 ⇒ 00:37:36.189 Jasmin Multani: That’s great. Is this incentive, idea something we can tell the ICs yet, or should we wait?

267 00:37:38.070 ⇒ 00:37:50.670 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I guess, like, I’m trying to pace out as much as is possible. Like, I’m thinking really hard this quarter about change management. We move very, very fast. Not everything that’s in this

268 00:37:50.770 ⇒ 00:38:00.789 Uttam Kumaran: I’m going to be able to do on day one, because ultimately, there’s also a lot of things on my plate to measure and make sure I can be active for all those checkpoints.

269 00:38:01.070 ⇒ 00:38:08.240 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I’m curious, like, what you think. I want to make this bonus program available to the CSOs and SLs.

270 00:38:08.580 ⇒ 00:38:12.130 Uttam Kumaran: I would prefer to make it available to everybody, but…

271 00:38:12.330 ⇒ 00:38:16.760 Uttam Kumaran: I also am actually much more interested in just making sure we hit the standards first.

272 00:38:16.970 ⇒ 00:38:17.590 Uttam Kumaran: like…

273 00:38:17.590 ⇒ 00:38:18.429 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, that’s fine.

274 00:38:18.430 ⇒ 00:38:25.300 Uttam Kumaran: So, I’m… I think I’m gonna… I… I… what… it’s kind of two things. I’m gonna make… the…

275 00:38:26.210 ⇒ 00:38:31.140 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I sort of have to think about it. I think I want to… I want to make sure we hit the standards.

276 00:38:31.190 ⇒ 00:38:46.490 Uttam Kumaran: and I want to make this the clear path towards making way more money here, is through selling that additional work, which I’m also trying to make it easy to do that, you know? And so I think I’m gonna just… my thought is I’m gonna make it available just for

277 00:38:46.520 ⇒ 00:38:54.909 Uttam Kumaran: the delivery leads first, and then if the program works, then we can roll it out to everybody. I don’t mind rolling it out to everybody, just…

278 00:38:55.020 ⇒ 00:38:58.750 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want just, like, less things on people’s minds every day.

279 00:38:58.960 ⇒ 00:38:59.609 Uttam Kumaran: And just.

280 00:38:59.610 ⇒ 00:39:00.050 Jasmin Multani: Hmm.

281 00:39:00.050 ⇒ 00:39:03.160 Uttam Kumaran: We can slowly release, like, new process, you know?

282 00:39:04.280 ⇒ 00:39:05.669 Jasmin Multani: Okay, okay, okay.

283 00:39:05.960 ⇒ 00:39:08.489 Jasmin Multani: I think, like…

284 00:39:10.890 ⇒ 00:39:23.960 Jasmin Multani: I mean, the finances are up to you, but for me, I think my biggest priority is, having the ISCs understand the difference between what’s in scope and

285 00:39:24.120 ⇒ 00:39:29.759 Jasmin Multani: what’s exploratory analysis? Because I can already tell, like.

286 00:39:30.090 ⇒ 00:39:33.620 Jasmin Multani: How do we make sure that we’re not wasting time going down rallies.

287 00:39:33.620 ⇒ 00:39:40.599 Uttam Kumaran: But then I would say that’s up to you as a service leader on your service, because every service needs to have that issue, right?

288 00:39:41.110 ⇒ 00:39:41.570 Jasmin Multani: Yeah.

289 00:39:41.570 ⇒ 00:39:50.399 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, on dbt work, it’s easy to, like, optimize to the nth degree, same in DE work, same in AI work. So this is a great example of, like.

290 00:39:50.750 ⇒ 00:39:54.969 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe as a group topic, like, for service leads, how do we…

291 00:39:55.780 ⇒ 00:40:00.149 Uttam Kumaran: How do we avoid that, like, going down a rabbit hole, whether that’s through, like.

292 00:40:00.500 ⇒ 00:40:12.100 Uttam Kumaran: whether that’s, like, hey, there’s no ticket that should take more than, like, 2 days, like, I think there’s more tools to pull there that are actually across the board on just Service Lead that we can talk about.

293 00:40:19.580 ⇒ 00:40:22.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Let’s, yeah, go ahead.

294 00:40:22.350 ⇒ 00:40:26.699 Demilade Agboola: Kind of… kind of aligned with that, I’m curious as to… How much

295 00:40:27.130 ⇒ 00:40:37.289 Demilade Agboola: it is for us to push things that are blocking our ICs, and across how many clients were responsible for that. So what I mean by that is, if…

296 00:40:37.640 ⇒ 00:40:45.009 Demilade Agboola: Say, Jasmine’s team is being blocked by, you know, some SLs work that is more upstream.

297 00:40:45.320 ⇒ 00:40:52.510 Demilade Agboola: Should she have to reach out to the SL and be like, hey, can you help unblock this? Because, like, this is also taking a toll.

298 00:40:52.670 ⇒ 00:40:55.750 Demilade Agboola: And also, in terms of, like.

299 00:40:55.750 ⇒ 00:41:03.880 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like it has to be a CSO, right? Because the CSO, ultimately, like, you’re… this is where I want to make it really clear that this is what you own, right?

300 00:41:04.030 ⇒ 00:41:08.809 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you… but you own the unblock of, like, a ticket is stuck in your service?

301 00:41:08.970 ⇒ 00:41:15.330 Uttam Kumaran: the CSO owns the fact that, like, one service is blocking another service, and has to mediate.

302 00:41:15.480 ⇒ 00:41:21.840 Uttam Kumaran: this is where I don’t… I wanna… I wanna continue to separate responsibilities very clearly, so you’re not…

303 00:41:22.750 ⇒ 00:41:32.210 Uttam Kumaran: yes, I think everybody should be worried about whether the client wins, but I think I want to also really make this, like, setting the core expectations.

304 00:41:32.570 ⇒ 00:41:46.190 Uttam Kumaran: the CSO is looking at that project plan and is moving that along. If a service is blocking another service, I feel like, going back to our standards, the CSO should be the first person to be like, there’s a flag, like…

305 00:41:46.780 ⇒ 00:41:53.089 Uttam Kumaran: what’s going on between these. I don’t expect the service leader to…

306 00:41:53.440 ⇒ 00:41:58.479 Uttam Kumaran: notice that another service, because you also have… may have multiple services working in parallel.

307 00:41:59.110 ⇒ 00:42:03.339 Uttam Kumaran: Ultimately, maybe you should say, hey, we predicted this was gonna…

308 00:42:03.470 ⇒ 00:42:21.799 Uttam Kumaran: like, for example, a good way of this happening, though, is you could say, we thought this was gonna happen this month, it got pushed the next month. Well, now, like, my resourcing plan changed. What the heck? Right? So there’s gonna be some dependencies, but in that example, I think the CSO should be the first person to throw the flag, you know?

309 00:42:25.790 ⇒ 00:42:29.670 Uttam Kumaran: Because ultimately, if the timeline is off, that person’s getting grilled.

310 00:42:34.990 ⇒ 00:42:38.280 Demilade Agboola: Okay, okay, fair enough. And then…

311 00:42:38.550 ⇒ 00:42:46.420 Demilade Agboola: obviously, IC Accountability is up to themselves, right? Like, how they determine they want to keep track of

312 00:42:46.710 ⇒ 00:42:50.589 Demilade Agboola: the ICs and, like, how they are able to deliver.

313 00:42:53.450 ⇒ 00:42:55.020 Uttam Kumaran: Say that one more time?

314 00:42:55.390 ⇒ 00:43:05.929 Demilade Agboola: So, the accountabilities of the ICs, that’s totally up to the, SL, right? Like, they can choose what manner they want to, async, daily calls, whatever that might look for them.

315 00:43:06.200 ⇒ 00:43:09.660 Demilade Agboola: And just to be on top of things, or end-of-day reports? Yeah.

316 00:43:10.400 ⇒ 00:43:13.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think, like… It’s a great question.

317 00:43:19.580 ⇒ 00:43:27.950 Uttam Kumaran: on a client-by-client basis, the CSO is open to running their engagement however they want to, right? Like.

318 00:43:28.170 ⇒ 00:43:34.529 Uttam Kumaran: If they’re like, hey guys, for this client, I need… Daily update and end-of-day update.

319 00:43:34.800 ⇒ 00:43:37.510 Uttam Kumaran: Because we need to just stay super sharp for, like, 2 weeks.

320 00:43:37.820 ⇒ 00:43:44.799 Uttam Kumaran: on a service basis, like Demi, consider that people from your service may be across 5 clients, 6 clients.

321 00:43:45.540 ⇒ 00:43:51.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, you could do a daily stand-up with everyone’s service, but it may be overkill.

322 00:43:51.080 ⇒ 00:44:10.590 Uttam Kumaran: And you also need to, I think, think more about what are you… what would you be looking for daily? Like, are you trying to uncover tickets that are taking too long? Are you trying to undercut… are you trying to uncover, tickets that don’t have an assignment? Like, I think you start with the problem you’re trying to solve, and then think about the tool.

323 00:44:12.130 ⇒ 00:44:21.459 Uttam Kumaran: You know, because yes, I would say, like, I’m gonna make it open, meaning if you’re like, hey, I want to meet with everybody on my service on Mondays, just to, like, get aligned.

324 00:44:21.680 ⇒ 00:44:26.189 Uttam Kumaran: I think great, but what we’re gonna find is every service is meeting every day, and like.

325 00:44:26.910 ⇒ 00:44:41.489 Uttam Kumaran: one thing I want to try to nurture in the company is, like, meet… don’t do meeting just because, like, it sounds great. Think about what it is you’re trying to identify on what timeline. And so that’s why you’re going to see a lot of the ways, and we could do this for,

326 00:44:41.600 ⇒ 00:44:46.919 Uttam Kumaran: for every team, is you’re gonna see that the way I think about, like.

327 00:44:47.470 ⇒ 00:44:50.309 Uttam Kumaran: escalations, and I think I have,

328 00:44:53.440 ⇒ 00:44:58.499 Uttam Kumaran: like, I have some expectations that I have. For example, on a weekly basis.

329 00:44:58.630 ⇒ 00:45:01.980 Uttam Kumaran: I want to just make sure that there is some standard SIG between us.

330 00:45:02.130 ⇒ 00:45:11.540 Uttam Kumaran: I want to identify high-risk accounts, I want to look at escalations, and I want to make sure the project review meetings go through. But these are all, like.

331 00:45:11.670 ⇒ 00:45:28.369 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna… except for maybe this weekly one, I’m not gonna book a meeting until something happens, right? So this is more about, like, these are the… these are the expectations I have on what cadence, and a meeting comes after one of these is, like, tripped.

332 00:45:28.550 ⇒ 00:45:30.520 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of, like, how I’m thinking about it.

333 00:45:30.730 ⇒ 00:45:36.410 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’m not gonna just book, like, an hour for project reviews every week. If there’s a review, then time will get booked.

334 00:45:36.750 ⇒ 00:45:42.750 Uttam Kumaran: If there’s no high-risk accounts, then this won’t, like, happen, but we’re gonna look at this weekly.

335 00:45:42.970 ⇒ 00:45:47.670 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna look to see, like, okay, are there escalations coming to my desk, or broader…

336 00:45:47.890 ⇒ 00:45:50.120 Uttam Kumaran: And maybe we have meetings ad hoc.

337 00:45:51.540 ⇒ 00:45:59.160 Uttam Kumaran: so sorry, like, long story short, I kind of am gonna set it up, give it up to you to think about, you know?

338 00:46:03.120 ⇒ 00:46:04.009 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, I feel like…

339 00:46:04.010 ⇒ 00:46:05.669 Uttam Kumaran: Does that make sense? Yeah.

340 00:46:06.050 ⇒ 00:46:08.400 Jasmin Multani: Demi, it sounds like Demi’s, like, you…

341 00:46:08.430 ⇒ 00:46:23.390 Jasmin Multani: you’re just as concerned as I am about, like, overloading and making sure everything is, like, consistent. So I’m happy to, like, pair up with any SL every week, and be like, hey.

342 00:46:23.390 ⇒ 00:46:31.839 Jasmin Multani: did a pulse check with my analysts. Amber’s on Element, and Amble, Advaita’s on VET and Element.

343 00:46:31.840 ⇒ 00:46:41.329 Jasmin Multani: I ask them, like, what… how they feel comfortable with, and how they feel overwhelmed. I’m happy to meet with any other SL that overlaps with their work stream.

344 00:46:41.330 ⇒ 00:46:49.420 Jasmin Multani: and discuss, like, what’s working, what’s not, so that we’re each responsibly quarterbacking them. Because I think that’s, like.

345 00:46:50.020 ⇒ 00:46:55.600 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. Their… their opinion matters… the IC’s opinion matters at the end of the day, and I…

346 00:46:55.800 ⇒ 00:47:05.250 Jasmin Multani: also, you know, see the value in meetings, but don’t want to overwhelm people. Like, I do feel like people should have heads-down time.

347 00:47:05.430 ⇒ 00:47:07.890 Jasmin Multani: I do love docs, but again, don’t want to.

348 00:47:07.890 ⇒ 00:47:15.250 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna see me flip-flop on this, too. Like, I’m not always… I’m not always, like, no meeting or not. I am…

349 00:47:15.250 ⇒ 00:47:15.890 Jasmin Multani: Hmm…

350 00:47:15.890 ⇒ 00:47:17.150 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, if…

351 00:47:17.480 ⇒ 00:47:30.500 Uttam Kumaran: if I were to vote for a perspective to hold, and I can try to hold it true, is to say, like, make sure every meeting has a purpose, even if the purpose is to chit-chat. Like, make sure that that is the purpose, you know?

352 00:47:30.500 ⇒ 00:47:30.930 Jasmin Multani: Yo.

353 00:47:30.930 ⇒ 00:47:45.619 Uttam Kumaran: Versus… it’s… it can be easy to just say, like, we’re gonna have something to talk about anyways. And our team on, like, the delivery team is gonna just basically find meetings that seem like that, and be like.

354 00:47:46.140 ⇒ 00:47:58.880 Uttam Kumaran: there needs to be clear outcomes. But again, like, relationship building, culture building within your… within your service is important, and I want… but I want… what I want to do is give you a toolbox, not just say.

355 00:47:58.880 ⇒ 00:48:10.279 Uttam Kumaran: everybody needs to have these five meetings, which I think is the mistake I made coming into Q1. And instead, I’m gonna… I think one thing I could try to do for every single thing is, like, what is in your toolbox to try?

356 00:48:10.410 ⇒ 00:48:14.719 Uttam Kumaran: In what situations has it worked for us before?

357 00:48:15.500 ⇒ 00:48:24.930 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and I think it’s gonna be conversation-based. Some teams, like, if they’re very technical, maybe they work or build culture very differently, or open to async more.

358 00:48:25.380 ⇒ 00:48:32.219 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s just gonna be sort of, like, up to you as the lead for a service, and I want it to be up to you.

359 00:48:32.710 ⇒ 00:48:34.179 Uttam Kumaran: So you have ownership, you know?

360 00:48:36.420 ⇒ 00:48:47.070 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. For ideas, too. I took the AI meeting that we were having, and I made it just office hours 3 days a week, and it said, if you guys need me, this is blocked out time kind of thing.

361 00:48:47.460 ⇒ 00:48:57.490 Samuel Roberts: But make sure to come with something, otherwise it’s just not gonna be a meeting that happens. So, I’m gonna… I think my idea is to kind of tandem that with async check-ins.

362 00:48:58.460 ⇒ 00:49:02.100 Samuel Roberts: Defined blockers, like, on tickets and stuff, but…

363 00:49:02.380 ⇒ 00:49:05.060 Samuel Roberts: I just wanted something that we were still touching base if we needed.

364 00:49:07.820 ⇒ 00:49:10.260 Samuel Roberts: That was my thought for handling some of this.

365 00:49:10.260 ⇒ 00:49:13.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, this is where, like, I… I think if…

366 00:49:14.520 ⇒ 00:49:17.179 Uttam Kumaran: Part of my take is that

367 00:49:17.300 ⇒ 00:49:23.310 Uttam Kumaran: If project reviews are going well, if we’re getting delivery source opportunities and we’re getting renewals.

368 00:49:24.330 ⇒ 00:49:32.509 Uttam Kumaran: I sort of don’t even… I personally don’t care how we get there, but I want to give you some tools in case

369 00:49:32.630 ⇒ 00:49:38.679 Uttam Kumaran: it’s, like, there’s… so there’s some structure, meaning I don’t want it to be as crazy as, like, okay.

370 00:49:39.190 ⇒ 00:49:57.099 Uttam Kumaran: deliver your service. I also don’t want to be like, we have daily stand-ups, we have, like, this thing, this thing, this thing. I’m gonna make what the… what my expectations are super clear, and so it’s just hitting them. And then, yes, if there are other… if things, like… if things go negative, but we still hit those expectations, that’s my fault.

371 00:49:57.300 ⇒ 00:50:01.239 Uttam Kumaran: You know, my expectations didn’t cover all of the signals.

372 00:50:01.560 ⇒ 00:50:05.249 Uttam Kumaran: And my hope is that we have escalation

373 00:50:05.440 ⇒ 00:50:07.560 Uttam Kumaran: We have, we have escalation points.

374 00:50:08.200 ⇒ 00:50:13.070 Uttam Kumaran: And that is actually, like, what is gonna be the main control over everything.

375 00:50:13.390 ⇒ 00:50:21.990 Uttam Kumaran: And then one of the things I’m gonna tell you guys is one of the ways I’m thinking about judging CSO success is by interventions.

376 00:50:22.140 ⇒ 00:50:28.219 Uttam Kumaran: I was thinking about, like, okay, should I, should I say, okay.

377 00:50:29.190 ⇒ 00:50:34.080 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, expectate, like, there shouldn’t be more than 10 escalations to head of delivery.

378 00:50:34.210 ⇒ 00:50:44.330 Uttam Kumaran: For a given client. But I would… then I was like, okay, people may just, like, sweep things under the rug, or, like, try to fix it themselves. Instead, I think I might switch it to, like.

379 00:50:44.720 ⇒ 00:50:46.000 Uttam Kumaran: intervention.

380 00:50:46.340 ⇒ 00:50:49.490 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning, if I have to intervene.

381 00:50:49.630 ⇒ 00:51:04.129 Uttam Kumaran: that is… that is the incorrect. Whether you bring it to me or comes up, because I want to actually be open to people bringing issues up, but I also… one thing that I… I put in here is, like, an escalation framework, right? So, if there is an issue.

382 00:51:04.250 ⇒ 00:51:15.019 Uttam Kumaran: between the triangle, like, how do we escalate, right? For example, like, I’m gonna oftentimes get tagged, like, you’ll get one of the SLs will get tagged, and I get tagged.

383 00:51:16.080 ⇒ 00:51:35.179 Uttam Kumaran: don’t tag me on anything, unless it needs to go escalated, right? And so, that’s also the thing, is, like, now that I’ve set expectations clear, I’m expecting that CSOs and SLs resolve things together and can look back at the standards. Yes, I do think there will be conflicts. That’s, like, a 100%,

384 00:51:35.180 ⇒ 00:51:46.019 Uttam Kumaran: But oftentimes, it’s miscommunication. Oftentimes, you can look back at the plan and, like, what did we say? Oh yeah, this is, like, a scope creep, right? So, I want that to happen first.

385 00:51:46.030 ⇒ 00:51:49.380 Uttam Kumaran: Because ultimately, there are some issues right now that…

386 00:51:49.560 ⇒ 00:51:57.199 Uttam Kumaran: I’m spending time on that could have been de-escalated, and there are some other issues that should get escalated to me that I want to go focus my time on, you know?

387 00:51:57.700 ⇒ 00:52:03.450 Uttam Kumaran: So, that’s sort of about the escalation.

388 00:52:09.430 ⇒ 00:52:16.699 Uttam Kumaran: Great. We have… A few more minutes, so I just want to talk a little bit about,

389 00:52:17.820 ⇒ 00:52:28.620 Uttam Kumaran: just Service Lead in particular, and I wrote this, I think I may do another pass at this, but I am interested in, like, this is… this should basically be, like.

390 00:52:28.820 ⇒ 00:52:31.610 Uttam Kumaran: This section should be, like, the home for this crew.

391 00:52:31.900 ⇒ 00:52:37.620 Uttam Kumaran: What does this role own? What are the expectations?

392 00:52:38.020 ⇒ 00:52:47.220 Uttam Kumaran: A couple other things that I’m thinking about, and I’m not sure whether it’ll be this quarter or next quarter, is more ownership over resourcing, right? So…

393 00:52:48.340 ⇒ 00:52:53.090 Uttam Kumaran: If you, as a service, say, hey, my service is getting adopted pretty heavily.

394 00:52:53.170 ⇒ 00:53:04.750 Uttam Kumaran: We need to hire more. I actually want to put that on you. So partly, it’s me pushing down some of these responsibilities that I am typically looking at the services. So there’s that. The second is upskilling, like learning and development.

395 00:53:04.750 ⇒ 00:53:14.879 Uttam Kumaran: If you want to promote certifications, and things like that, I want to give you that ability, too. And then really, it’s going to be a lot around, hopefully, playbook development.

396 00:53:15.120 ⇒ 00:53:17.870 Uttam Kumaran: So this is like, hey, we do…

397 00:53:18.070 ⇒ 00:53:25.220 Uttam Kumaran: we do Snowflake to X migration all the time, can I create a playbook around that so it’s 50% faster?

398 00:53:25.760 ⇒ 00:53:28.510 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to just say, create playbooks.

399 00:53:28.560 ⇒ 00:53:46.310 Uttam Kumaran: So that we just… it’s a sort of, like, AI slop hell. Instead, I want to… what I want to do is almost say, if your playbook gets used, and a CSO says that that playbook helped me deliver faster and or better, then maybe there’s a dollar amount associated with it. That way, it… it hopefully

400 00:53:47.040 ⇒ 00:53:51.610 Uttam Kumaran: Hopefully, it incentivizes the development of usable playbooks?

401 00:53:51.970 ⇒ 00:53:58.359 Uttam Kumaran: And then the last piece, and again, I don’t know whether I’m gonna make this really codified this quarter, is gonna be on AI.

402 00:53:58.820 ⇒ 00:54:02.510 Uttam Kumaran: I think part… partly why I’m thinking is, like.

403 00:54:03.130 ⇒ 00:54:19.939 Uttam Kumaran: how can I push this crew to think harder about leveraging AI in order to make your service better for clients? What I want to say… what I want to avoid is saying, use AI, and then the clear next thing is like, oh, we’re gonna automate everybody.

404 00:54:20.020 ⇒ 00:54:26.259 Uttam Kumaran: I think one thing I just say out loud, there’s so much work to do across all these services,

405 00:54:26.510 ⇒ 00:54:30.139 Uttam Kumaran: And my goal is to try to keep a small team, so…

406 00:54:30.270 ⇒ 00:54:35.669 Uttam Kumaran: we all win. The more people we hire, the tougher this business gets.

407 00:54:36.210 ⇒ 00:54:41.420 Uttam Kumaran: So, one thing I want to try and think about, and what I was thinking about, is, okay, maybe there is, like, hey.

408 00:54:41.560 ⇒ 00:54:46.780 Uttam Kumaran: 10% of tickets that come out of the service need to get executed by AI end-to-end.

409 00:54:48.230 ⇒ 00:54:56.049 Uttam Kumaran: that was an idea I just had, where I was like, okay, does… that should hopefully force you guys to think about the harnessing.

410 00:54:56.460 ⇒ 00:55:04.729 Uttam Kumaran: explore assigning tickets to Codex or cursor, and overall help you learn more about AI-driven development.

411 00:55:04.840 ⇒ 00:55:11.660 Uttam Kumaran: 10% is just a number I threw out, but I am thinking about that. I’m…

412 00:55:12.290 ⇒ 00:55:18.620 Uttam Kumaran: what I’m gonna try to do is provide this group with sort of a menu of, like, what what…

413 00:55:18.770 ⇒ 00:55:35.729 Uttam Kumaran: what things from the delivery leadership world that I’m trying to promote, and maybe we pace it out over the next three quarters. Like, if you’re like, hey, just getting this service lead thing set up, and getting, like, the clients in a good place is what we want to focus on, great. Then maybe Q3 is more about AI,

414 00:55:35.960 ⇒ 00:55:39.220 Uttam Kumaran: the AI thing is already available, though, so I feel like…

415 00:55:40.180 ⇒ 00:55:45.489 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna already be able to use it today if you just, like, spend a day or two figuring it out, so…

416 00:55:45.930 ⇒ 00:55:51.999 Uttam Kumaran: that’s where I could use some feedback on thinking through what are some of the expectations, and if it’s… if it’s,

417 00:55:52.400 ⇒ 00:55:54.920 Uttam Kumaran: We’re able to accomplish it this quarter, so…

418 00:55:55.880 ⇒ 00:56:07.220 Uttam Kumaran: So in this… in this doc, you’ll see there’s, sort of items on, like, what the service lead owns. You’re gonna see some docs on, like, how to hold ICs accountable.

419 00:56:08.660 ⇒ 00:56:16.049 Uttam Kumaran: for each of these docs, I do… I am very, very interested in feedback. You can see I, like, I really tried to think

420 00:56:16.320 ⇒ 00:56:18.950 Uttam Kumaran: Fairly deep about each of these items, but…

421 00:56:19.300 ⇒ 00:56:24.280 Uttam Kumaran: again, I want this to be a guiding document with tools, less of, like.

422 00:56:24.400 ⇒ 00:56:28.269 Uttam Kumaran: You need to do this. But some of these practices are helpful, like.

423 00:56:28.560 ⇒ 00:56:35.680 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna give… I’m gonna make sure every service has a view in linear of every ticket associated with your service, so you can see what’s blocked.

424 00:56:36.050 ⇒ 00:56:41.820 Uttam Kumaran: I think there’s gonna be a lot of mentorship, so that’s sort of what I’m thinking about in terms of the IC.

425 00:56:41.890 ⇒ 00:56:59.110 Uttam Kumaran: If I think about, like, some of this we moved from the Forging the Brain docs. I’m gonna edit this a little bit, to be a lot less prescriptive, frankly, but there should be some examples here on the sort of the day in the life. I also put in some, like.

426 00:56:59.900 ⇒ 00:57:02.580 Uttam Kumaran: And they use the word exemplars, but, like.

427 00:57:02.650 ⇒ 00:57:06.560 Uttam Kumaran: I wanted to put in examples of, like, good and bad for every role.

428 00:57:06.620 ⇒ 00:57:25.160 Uttam Kumaran: Again, like, sometimes, like, I think about… I use analogies really heavily when I explain topics, because sometimes you can be like, okay, when this happens, you do this, but oftentimes, saying, like, what does good look like, what does bad look like, adds some color to that, so… and these are all mapped back to standards.

429 00:57:25.200 ⇒ 00:57:37.090 Uttam Kumaran: And so hopefully, again, like, when we talk and we do reviews between me and you, we’ll be able to look back and say, like, okay, were we hitting these standards? And if a standard is ambiguous.

430 00:57:37.260 ⇒ 00:57:39.609 Uttam Kumaran: There’s some examples, you know?

431 00:57:39.720 ⇒ 00:57:55.600 Uttam Kumaran: And so, again, a lot of this is writing. I really… my ask is if you can take, you know, 30 minutes or an hour this week to really read through this, because this section and some other pieces broadly is going to be how we run this quarter. So,

432 00:57:55.970 ⇒ 00:58:03.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I think broadly, we haven’t… we didn’t take… a lot of last quarter’s focus was on EP and CSO.

433 00:58:03.090 ⇒ 00:58:16.439 Uttam Kumaran: And I think nicely this quarter, it’s actually going to be focused on CSO, SLs, and head of delivery as the three… as the core stakeholders, and then as well as, like, how do we make sure the ICs come to work

434 00:58:16.690 ⇒ 00:58:20.100 Uttam Kumaran: Like, they understand exactly what’s on their plate, and they can deliver, you know?

435 00:58:26.550 ⇒ 00:58:27.990 Uttam Kumaran: Any questions?

436 00:58:36.330 ⇒ 00:58:42.589 Jasmin Multani: No questions, but I am gonna open the door for any other SLs to do, like, a bi-weekly.

437 00:58:42.670 ⇒ 00:59:00.900 Jasmin Multani: Just to talk about how ICs are performing in different pods. Like, today, I asked Amber how her bandwidth looks like outside of Element, and that really helps me understand where her priorities are, and where I can push her.

438 00:59:01.000 ⇒ 00:59:03.410 Jasmin Multani: So…

439 00:59:03.410 ⇒ 00:59:22.120 Jasmin Multani: my start date is officially April 6th for full-time, but after that, I can… if any SL wants to meet up bi-weekly, about… to talk about bandwidth, that’d be helpful. If someone wants to say, hey, Amber, take… you’re using too much of Amber’s time for Element, I need her for this, I think.

440 00:59:22.180 ⇒ 00:59:25.420 Jasmin Multani: there should be… I’m happy to have an open-door policy.

441 00:59:27.320 ⇒ 00:59:30.650 Samuel Roberts: That actually gets to something I was wondering earlier. You mentioned, Utam, about…

442 00:59:31.260 ⇒ 00:59:48.029 Samuel Roberts: us coming to you when we need, maybe, you know, hiring another IC or something like that, how is, like, allocation in general fit into the kind of CSOSL head of delivery? Like, where’s the, you know, we have our ICs, but obviously they’re going to be on different things. Where do we fall into that kind of…

443 00:59:49.000 ⇒ 01:00:03.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I’m gonna give all of you, like, basically the tools to understand existing allocation. Like, I’m working on making that really, really clear today, but the service lead will be responsible for allocation and resourcing within their service.

444 01:00:03.820 ⇒ 01:00:15.149 Uttam Kumaran: And so that way, when a… when a… when a client comes in, an SOW comes to the door, and a project plan comes in the door, you can then… you then can understand who needs to get there, versus

445 01:00:15.260 ⇒ 01:00:24.340 Uttam Kumaran: Previously, we almost determined the SOW based on who we had, so I’m trying to switch it to be, like, there are these concepts, and it’s more objective.

446 01:00:24.360 ⇒ 01:00:39.070 Uttam Kumaran: And so this team will be in charge of those. Again, as part of my week-to-week rollout plan this quarter, we’re not… I’m not gonna say, cool, everybody’s in charge of everybody, like, we will do trainings on how to think about resource allocation, how to think about

447 01:00:39.070 ⇒ 01:00:48.679 Uttam Kumaran: forward-looking hiring. And so one… one point… so… so I think you brought up two points, Sam, that is not clear today. How does… how do clients…

448 01:00:49.000 ⇒ 01:01:03.429 Uttam Kumaran: how does sales work in this process, and then how does recruiting resource allocation work in this process? So I… that’s on my to-do list to get to you. I think one other piece to Jasmine’s point is I am… I do want to meet with this

449 01:01:04.040 ⇒ 01:01:17.380 Uttam Kumaran: this… all the leads on delivery, on some cadence, but I actually, again, in the spirit of what I said, I want to use that… that time for something where it’s learning. For example, one thing I’m thinking about is, like.

450 01:01:17.380 ⇒ 01:01:25.729 Uttam Kumaran: Can I do once a week, just do, like, a brown bag on a topic? For example, I can talk how to… how to source and close delivery source leads.

451 01:01:25.820 ⇒ 01:01:35.350 Uttam Kumaran: And I could just do a one-hour, like, brown bag on that topic, everything I’ve learned about that topic, and that way it’s sort of a leadership… it’s more leadership

452 01:01:35.390 ⇒ 01:01:43.450 Uttam Kumaran: you know, learning and development. Similarly for CSOs, I could do, like, break down a meeting, or break down, like, a pitch.

453 01:01:43.480 ⇒ 01:01:59.629 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I want… I… I want to avoid coming to a meeting and be like, how’s everyone going… doing? Which I still love to do, but as you guys all know, I call everybody here and there, and so I’m gonna do my… my… my usual thing there. Instead, I think if it’s helpful to do

454 01:01:59.630 ⇒ 01:02:05.769 Uttam Kumaran: take one hour on Monday, and just do, like, I’ll take a concept, and we just go deep on it.

455 01:02:05.890 ⇒ 01:02:17.890 Uttam Kumaran: Right? It could be something that’s top of mind. Hey, like, how to do… how to… how to, like, de-escalate something with a client. It could be something on AI, right? And I think it could be either the service leads, the CSOs, or both.

456 01:02:18.080 ⇒ 01:02:19.200 Uttam Kumaran: If you guys…

457 01:02:19.390 ⇒ 01:02:23.930 Uttam Kumaran: if that sounds great, then I will work with Bea and sort of put together a little bit of, like, a…

458 01:02:24.420 ⇒ 01:02:29.220 Uttam Kumaran: A curriculum, or, like, whatever, the brown bag, like, schedule for this quarter.

459 01:02:29.400 ⇒ 01:02:33.930 Uttam Kumaran: I have plenty to talk about, and I think some of these subjects require, like.

460 01:02:34.340 ⇒ 01:02:49.609 Uttam Kumaran: an hour just to talk through it. I love to talk about these, because it helps me define them more, and it’ll help all of our documentation, so if we’re good with that, then that’s… that’s how I will take advantage of our fixed, like, one fixed hour at the start of the week.

461 01:02:49.750 ⇒ 01:02:50.819 Uttam Kumaran: Ideally.

462 01:02:58.070 ⇒ 01:02:58.750 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.

463 01:03:00.180 ⇒ 01:03:03.210 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, I think the last piece is, like, as… as, like.

464 01:03:03.850 ⇒ 01:03:09.490 Uttam Kumaran: I work directly with everybody here. I think we’re gonna plan on doing at least monthly-level reviews.

465 01:03:09.700 ⇒ 01:03:15.189 Uttam Kumaran: And then probably a broader quarterly review. I’m always gonna find a way to talk to all

466 01:03:15.400 ⇒ 01:03:25.940 Uttam Kumaran: anyone who’s on delivery leadership once a week, I find some way. So, but also my… in freeing up my time, it’s going to be to spend more time

467 01:03:25.940 ⇒ 01:03:36.479 Uttam Kumaran: coaching and mentoring. So if you have a case that, like, you’re trying to get through, you can just message me, whatever. But I think you can hopefully expect something around monthly cadence for, like.

468 01:03:36.620 ⇒ 01:03:42.619 Uttam Kumaran: Check-ins, and then quarterly for, like, okay, how did… how did we do… how did each of us do?

469 01:03:42.740 ⇒ 01:03:51.950 Uttam Kumaran: In a quarterly review, and then I’m really hopeful that I can also get feedback and some mechanism for head of delivery. I’m not going to be head of delivery forever.

470 01:03:53.350 ⇒ 01:04:00.089 Uttam Kumaran: So, part of me doing this role is to define it really well, and to sit in on it to see what it’s like.

471 01:04:00.200 ⇒ 01:04:05.909 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m trying to craft this role so that we can find the best person, you know, for it longer term, so…

472 01:04:10.450 ⇒ 01:04:21.860 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great. Thank you. I know this is a packed meeting, so I appreciate the time. Yeah, if you please, if you have some time to take a look at these docs this week, I’m gonna lock everything, and we’re gonna drive, sort of, starting Monday. I would like to drive

473 01:04:22.200 ⇒ 01:04:37.310 Uttam Kumaran: starting sooner. So, I have a couple of homework items, but in particular, I think Demi, Awash, I’m looking forward to your feedback. You guys have been here, you know, the longest, and I want to make sure that this thing is gonna work.

474 01:04:37.440 ⇒ 01:04:42.620 Uttam Kumaran: And that you guys feel like it’s significantly different than the way that we’ve done things.

475 01:04:42.790 ⇒ 01:04:53.079 Uttam Kumaran: Because I’m going to start to staff people underneath all you guys really aggressively, and so making sure that you have a clear picture is gonna give everybody, like, a super, super clear picture.

476 01:04:54.610 ⇒ 01:04:56.520 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, okay.

477 01:04:56.940 ⇒ 01:05:01.220 Demilade Agboola: Also, part of the doc, can we also have an idea of what the individual service pods look like?

478 01:05:02.760 ⇒ 01:05:04.960 Uttam Kumaran: In terms of active clients?

479 01:05:05.390 ⇒ 01:05:08.390 Demilade Agboola: In terms of active clients, in terms of the people.

480 01:05:08.390 ⇒ 01:05:11.070 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, yeah, fair.

481 01:05:11.280 ⇒ 01:05:13.220 Uttam Kumaran: Like, a legit org chart, yes, I’ll do that.

482 01:05:13.220 ⇒ 01:05:13.770 Demilade Agboola: Yay.

483 01:05:14.490 ⇒ 01:05:15.100 Demilade Agboola: Appreciate that.

484 01:05:15.100 ⇒ 01:05:16.559 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll do that. Yeah.

485 01:05:18.500 ⇒ 01:05:19.370 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

486 01:05:19.980 ⇒ 01:05:27.830 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you all, appreciate it. And you may get asked by CSOs this week to do project reviews, so just be on the lookout, and like…

487 01:05:28.340 ⇒ 01:05:32.260 Uttam Kumaran: again, I think, although there’s documentation on how to best do it in the,

488 01:05:32.760 ⇒ 01:05:38.730 Uttam Kumaran: In the platform, but they’re going to be asking you, because they’re going to try to rip through as many of their reviews as possible this week, so…

489 01:05:40.050 ⇒ 01:05:40.760 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

490 01:05:41.070 ⇒ 01:05:42.490 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you, everyone, appreciate it.

491 01:05:42.690 ⇒ 01:05:43.790 Jasmin Multani: Thank you, bye.

492 01:05:43.790 ⇒ 01:05:44.999 Demilade Agboola: Thank you, bye.