Meeting Title: Brainforge Onboarding and AI Tools Discussion Date: 2026-03-24 Meeting participants: Greg Stoutenburg, Jorrel Sto. Tomas
WEBVTT
1 00:00:51.040 ⇒ 00:00:52.120 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Hey, Greg.
2 00:00:52.470 ⇒ 00:00:53.720 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, how are you?
3 00:00:54.360 ⇒ 00:00:56.429 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Good, how are you? Nice to meet ya.
4 00:00:56.430 ⇒ 00:00:58.709 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, nice to meet you as well.
5 00:00:58.930 ⇒ 00:01:01.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Let me just answer someone real quick.
6 00:01:02.430 ⇒ 00:01:04.400 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, yeah, no, no worries.
7 00:01:05.370 ⇒ 00:01:10.870 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so welcome! What’s your, when’d you start? Where are you from? What are you doing?
8 00:01:10.870 ⇒ 00:01:17.090 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: When I saw where I’m from. I… I just, they just pulled me in.
9 00:01:17.230 ⇒ 00:01:26.089 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: On Friday, so… Robert pitched to me to come on and do some GTM stuff.
10 00:01:26.170 ⇒ 00:01:42.149 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: like, he called me randomly at, like, 7pm on Wednesday last week, and he’s like, hey, like, you know, we’re trying to think this through. And I used to actually work with Robert when he was running Pongo. I was a strategic partner over there.
11 00:01:42.330 ⇒ 00:01:51.499 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And then a few months later, merged, they, they merged into, to Brainforge. Oh, okay. So, so this is, like, almost…
12 00:01:51.970 ⇒ 00:02:11.560 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, it was, like, two and a half years ago now, so time flies. But, yeah, and so Robert and I kind of, like, kept in touch here and there, and I’ve relatively not been keeping up with data stuff as much as I used to.
13 00:02:11.630 ⇒ 00:02:16.810 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: But, yeah, with all the AI stuff going on,
14 00:02:17.490 ⇒ 00:02:23.469 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: it was, like, hard not to… not to keep a pulse on everything going on. Yeah. So,
15 00:02:23.710 ⇒ 00:02:32.459 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I… yeah, that’s… that’s kind of… that’s kind of how I think I got brought… brought back into the mix, but I… I’m based out in Los Angeles, though, so…
16 00:02:32.460 ⇒ 00:02:33.060 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
17 00:02:33.060 ⇒ 00:02:46.549 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: So, so not New York, like, or East Coast, or Austin, but, West Coast. So, how about yourself? How did you get, how did you meet them? How did you get roped in as well? And, where are you based out of?
18 00:02:46.850 ⇒ 00:03:04.300 Greg Stoutenburg: I am in York, Pennsylvania, and, I got here because I had been… so, I was a… well, I was a philosophy professor until 2016, and then, I was like, alright, I need a new… I need a new career. So, I got a job at Stack Overflow in 2021, and I’ve been doing.
19 00:03:04.300 ⇒ 00:03:04.810 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Oh, lovely.
20 00:03:04.930 ⇒ 00:03:19.369 Greg Stoutenburg: like, product stuff since, especially in user activation and retention. And yeah, I had been… most recently, I’ve been a PM. I’ve been a growth PM at a company that made an application-building platform.
21 00:03:19.370 ⇒ 00:03:44.360 Greg Stoutenburg: But they decided to make a sort of pivot into manufacturing software specifically, and so they wanted a new product director to, to do that. So, I was like, alright, well, time to find the next thing. So, my story is the day that I posted my resume in the Amplitude cohort Slack, community, I posted my resume, like, hey, I’ll keep an eye here, but, you know, I’m kind of looking for my next thing.
22 00:03:44.360 ⇒ 00:03:50.559 Greg Stoutenburg: whatever it might be, and that same day, Utam DM’d me, and was like, hey, let’s have a conversation, and so…
23 00:03:50.560 ⇒ 00:03:53.049 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve been a brain fort since.
24 00:03:53.050 ⇒ 00:03:58.939 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Awesome, awesome. Yeah. So, so you’re, you’re, you were, part of, okay, a cohort,
25 00:03:59.440 ⇒ 00:04:03.299 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I’m good friends with Beth over there, so…
26 00:04:03.300 ⇒ 00:04:05.030 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27 00:04:05.390 ⇒ 00:04:19.390 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I ran a couple sponsored Amplitude events back in 2024. They’re awesome, I love working with them. But unfortunately, most of my data background, I’ve been forced to do mixed panel implementations.
28 00:04:19.399 ⇒ 00:04:19.889 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m sorry.
29 00:04:19.890 ⇒ 00:04:22.100 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I know, right? Like, it sucks.
30 00:04:22.860 ⇒ 00:04:36.419 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I hate MixPanel, and then, like, the two of my jobs that I got brought into, were specifically because of my MixPanel experience. They were like, oh my god, you do Mixpanel, so I did a MixPanel audit, like, you guys did all your…
31 00:04:36.420 ⇒ 00:04:41.779 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s Right, I don’t… I don’t want to be known for this.
32 00:04:41.780 ⇒ 00:04:48.319 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, so… but yeah, no, that’s awesome. Yeah, I, what’s the word for it?
33 00:04:49.080 ⇒ 00:05:04.789 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, the… the Amplitude… like, I love Amplitude, and I… I was a huge supporter for… especially when they were going through a massive growth phase in the last 3-4 years, and, like, I converted so many people away from Mixpanel into… into Amplitude.
34 00:05:04.790 ⇒ 00:05:12.810 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: But yeah, and then I just… I just kind of… I just left the game, two years ago, because, so I’m an entrepreneur, so I ran… I run a cybersecurity
35 00:05:12.810 ⇒ 00:05:22.940 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: company that, we staff from the Philippines. And then I also, like, ran a YC-backed company as well, a few years ago.
36 00:05:22.940 ⇒ 00:05:23.830 Greg Stoutenburg: So…
37 00:05:23.830 ⇒ 00:05:37.230 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I just… yeah, but, like, I don’t know if you get through the motions before, Greg, but, like, I feel like once you… once you’ve started, like, one company, and you, like, have your playbook, and, like, how you run stuff, and then you staff the right people, or you bring the right partners.
38 00:05:37.230 ⇒ 00:05:46.099 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Then all of a sudden, your day opens up, and then with AI, I just, like, slowly, more stuff got automated to the point where I was like, I don’t know what to do with my day anymore.
39 00:05:47.210 ⇒ 00:05:49.420 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve not had that problem, no, but…
40 00:05:49.420 ⇒ 00:05:50.090 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Okay.
41 00:05:50.090 ⇒ 00:05:52.000 Greg Stoutenburg: Sounds great!
42 00:05:52.000 ⇒ 00:05:52.629 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I mean…
43 00:05:52.630 ⇒ 00:05:53.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Next one, huh?
44 00:05:53.870 ⇒ 00:06:13.669 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Well, no, I mean, like, I’m still operating, the two companies right now, but when Robert called me, he’s like, hey, pending your bandwidth, like, you know, are you, like, would you be down to do this? And I was like, well, I’ve just been vibe coding, like, my entire day is just vibe coding, like, that’s all I do. I’ve done for the last 3 weeks.
45 00:06:13.670 ⇒ 00:06:20.590 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And I think it’s honestly too distracting. I don’t know, I don’t know if you… you’re on the Vibe Code train as well.
46 00:06:20.590 ⇒ 00:06:44.999 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. We… they… they use a lot of AI here, and I was already using AI for work, but, it’s just at, like, a whole other level since coming to Brainforge. So, there’s a decent amount of vibe coding going on here. There’s just a lot of automation, that’s all good. Separately, I’m building… I mean, we’ll see if this turns into a company. First, we’re just trying to set up an MVP. My brother and I.
47 00:06:45.030 ⇒ 00:06:49.429 Greg Stoutenburg: Are working on, a web app that would help track
48 00:06:49.660 ⇒ 00:07:01.060 Greg Stoutenburg: permit data for, for states, because, compliance testing services need that data, but it’s hard to get. I mean, it’s hard to get, and it’s easy to get. It’s easy to get because.
49 00:07:01.060 ⇒ 00:07:01.560 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah.
50 00:07:01.560 ⇒ 00:07:13.139 Greg Stoutenburg: public sources for it, because the government releases it. It’s hard to get, because then that means somebody’s job is reading lots of PDFs, and so we think we might be able to get companies to pay us instead of read those PDFs.
51 00:07:15.060 ⇒ 00:07:15.970 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I mean, that’s how…
52 00:07:16.380 ⇒ 00:07:26.210 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: QuiverQuant got, like, got kicked off. I mean, are you familiar with them, right? The folks who do, like, the… Quantum? QuiverQuant?
53 00:07:27.660 ⇒ 00:07:33.060 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: So, basically, this was, like, in 2021 or 2020.
54 00:07:33.170 ⇒ 00:07:47.149 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: So the Stock Act was passed in 2012, right? So, like, you know, all the congressional folks, they’re required to, within a 45-day window, report their trades or any,
55 00:07:47.540 ⇒ 00:07:57.849 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: significant financial transactions publicly, right? It’s a part of the disclosure from the Stock Act. And so, the Senate and Congress, like.
56 00:07:58.050 ⇒ 00:08:14.429 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I don’t know which public database it is, but they basically, they’re required to put those PDFs in. A lot of them will handwrite, you know, like, oh yeah, you know, we traded this stock with this ticker for 45K, between 45K and 100K, right?
57 00:08:14.430 ⇒ 00:08:23.679 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And so, QuiverQuant, they, they basically had, like, an army of people basically tagging that data, and,
58 00:08:23.750 ⇒ 00:08:29.269 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: they were selling that as a package to, hedge funds. And so…
59 00:08:29.270 ⇒ 00:08:30.239 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, nice, nice.
60 00:08:30.240 ⇒ 00:08:42.539 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Because it’s… and… but the funny thing is, is that, my old co-founder was the one who… he… he actually used to do this as, like, a… for fun. We had this thing called Senate Stock Watch.
61 00:08:42.880 ⇒ 00:08:44.090 Greg Stoutenburg: Nice.
62 00:08:44.090 ⇒ 00:08:54.999 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, and, our data that we did through that Senate Stockwatch thing was actually what the Nancy Pelosi tracker was using. I don’t know if you’re.
63 00:08:55.000 ⇒ 00:08:57.789 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, I was wondering if that’s what we were gonna come around to here.
64 00:08:57.790 ⇒ 00:09:07.530 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, so our data for, like, 2 years was what they used to track Nancy Pelosi’s, like, tracking information, and,
65 00:09:07.530 ⇒ 00:09:26.760 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: we were doing it for free, because it was, like, we thought it was a public service, like, it was kind of, like, a dumb thing to sell. But people were actually just repackaging a lot of the data, the data sets that we were… we had, like, an army of 20 volunteers just, like, transcribing that data, but people were packaging and selling it for, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars,
66 00:09:26.950 ⇒ 00:09:30.089 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And so, it was kind of a missed opportunity for us.
67 00:09:30.090 ⇒ 00:09:31.530 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I’ll say, yeah.
68 00:09:31.820 ⇒ 00:09:51.819 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: But in… I mean, but the thing is, we ended up getting into YC, like, 6 months later, during the crypto craze, and so it wasn’t necessarily like, oh man, like, we’re missing out, but we did learn quite a lot. Like, there is so much information and data that people are willing to buy, but they’re so lazy, to actually put together.
69 00:09:52.130 ⇒ 00:09:53.680 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: So…
70 00:09:54.100 ⇒ 00:10:10.859 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean… yeah, that’s amazing, man. I don’t think there’d be anything like the… the potential for that for the use case I described, but it would be… it would be one of these things where it’s, like, just something that would save some people a lot of time.
71 00:10:11.030 ⇒ 00:10:15.029 Greg Stoutenburg: And so we’re like, hmm, maybe there’s a… maybe there’s a service here.
72 00:10:16.450 ⇒ 00:10:17.359 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll see.
73 00:10:17.780 ⇒ 00:10:18.309 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean.
74 00:10:18.310 ⇒ 00:10:23.030 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: We had no expectations when we started the project. It was just like, oh, this is funny, like.
75 00:10:23.050 ⇒ 00:10:42.960 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: There’s all this stock information, and then there was just, like, a storm of things that worked out, because all of a sudden, you know, everybody had a Robinhood account, everybody was, you know, a day trader, right? And then all the Wall Street, you know, our Wall Street bets got really big with the GME squeeze, and so it was just the perfect storm of, like.
76 00:10:43.130 ⇒ 00:10:51.590 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: oh yeah, everybody cares about this, but, right, I mean, honestly, like, compliance is becoming really hot right now.
77 00:10:51.590 ⇒ 00:10:52.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah.
78 00:10:53.080 ⇒ 00:11:02.689 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, so, I don’t know, I mean, hey, I believe in it. If you’re able to put something together, it’s all about dataset access now. All about dataset access.
79 00:11:02.690 ⇒ 00:11:05.999 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, yep. Yeah, the data set’s there, so…
80 00:11:06.400 ⇒ 00:11:08.170 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll put a service on top of it.
81 00:11:09.280 ⇒ 00:11:17.150 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I mean… but yeah, but I was curious, so, like, what’s your function right now with Brainforge? What do you, like, what do you mainly do for them?
82 00:11:17.400 ⇒ 00:11:24.370 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so, I mean, so I was brought in with the idea being, okay, work on product analytics implementations, you know, do amplitude stuff.
83 00:11:25.670 ⇒ 00:11:26.190 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Dude.
84 00:11:26.190 ⇒ 00:11:38.590 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, that’s right, yep. And ended up working on some MixedPanel stuff, a little bit of Amplitude stuff, and yeah, so it’s been, like, a mix of product analytics, and then in addition, I’ve… the last
85 00:11:39.350 ⇒ 00:11:56.069 Greg Stoutenburg: be going on, like, 5 weeks now. I only started working… I did, like, a sort of ramp-up period in, like, a trial period for 10 hours a week, capped at 10 hours a week for a couple of weeks in December. So it’s only since January that I’ve had, you know, the cap taken off.
86 00:11:56.580 ⇒ 00:12:15.760 Greg Stoutenburg: So, the last, like, 5 weeks have been on BI migration. So, first, took one client from Tableau over to Omni, and now I’m helping another client stand up Omni, doing various analytics and CRO work for another client,
87 00:12:15.990 ⇒ 00:12:33.379 Greg Stoutenburg: And then on the side, I’m trying to see if I can turn one very small client’s two-week product analytics pitch, a quick, like, audit sprint, into more business. So, sort of trying to, like, build out, like, a product analytics function here, and see how far that will go.
88 00:12:33.500 ⇒ 00:12:40.539 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so that’s… and that’s… that’s constant as well with the way that Brainforge is trying to develop certain roles, like.
89 00:12:40.820 ⇒ 00:12:46.300 Greg Stoutenburg: if you can… if we could have, say, I don’t know, I’m just picking a number, like, 5 people owning certain…
90 00:12:46.300 ⇒ 00:13:01.929 Greg Stoutenburg: services, then that’s kind of the direction they want to go in, rather than, like, okay, we’ve got a few people managing client contacts, and then a bunch of people under them just managing, like, various projects. They’re trying to move in this other sort of direction. So, yeah.
91 00:13:02.040 ⇒ 00:13:05.040 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll see where it goes. I’m happy to be here, learned a ton.
92 00:13:05.270 ⇒ 00:13:06.190 Greg Stoutenburg: No.
93 00:13:06.710 ⇒ 00:13:07.800 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Great, I mean…
94 00:13:08.010 ⇒ 00:13:12.310 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Like, it’s only been 3 months, and you’re saying you’ve learned a lot, which is a great sign.
95 00:13:12.740 ⇒ 00:13:18.929 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I learned a lot by the end of January. I was like, okay, I was already doing some of these things, but, like, the way they do it here is on a whole other level.
96 00:13:19.280 ⇒ 00:13:21.500 Greg Stoutenburg: So, yeah, yeah.
97 00:13:22.150 ⇒ 00:13:23.809 Greg Stoutenburg: Well, that’s my deal.
98 00:13:24.760 ⇒ 00:13:31.109 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: That’s great. Yeah, I feel like… I feel like that’s kind of… I kind of… I feel like that’s most tech folks I know these days.
99 00:13:31.310 ⇒ 00:13:34.780 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: We’re all kind of fractional everywhere. Yeah.
100 00:13:34.940 ⇒ 00:13:35.480 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
101 00:13:35.480 ⇒ 00:13:43.640 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yep. I don’t know, and like, with… especially with the AI stuff, it’s just… it’s so easy to do that. It’s so easy to be fractional everywhere right now.
102 00:13:43.640 ⇒ 00:13:48.089 Greg Stoutenburg: I think so. Yeah, I think so. It’s also easy to get out over your skis, so you gotta be careful.
103 00:13:48.660 ⇒ 00:14:01.740 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Oh yeah, 100%. 100%. I was… last year, I got overly ambitious with using AI, and I quickly learned that it’s only, it’s only as good as the inputs.
104 00:14:01.740 ⇒ 00:14:09.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, that’s right, yeah, that’s right, seriously. And before you go and put something in front of someone, you might want to, like, you know, make sure you read it.
105 00:14:09.490 ⇒ 00:14:24.809 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, that’s… yeah, I mean, I’ve… I’ve been converting a lot of people to Claude lately. Yeah. Over the last, like, 3 or 4 months, like, I’ve just been such… they don’t pay me, but, like, I’m such an evangelist for their stack,
106 00:14:24.880 ⇒ 00:14:35.229 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And, I just, like, forget because I’ve been, you know, I’ve been using this stuff for over the last, like, year and a half, almost two years, and, you know, like…
107 00:14:35.340 ⇒ 00:14:43.040 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: people still don’t understand how this stuff works, and so you’re just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you just do this. They’re like, what are you talking about? They’re like, what do you…
108 00:14:44.040 ⇒ 00:14:48.070 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Like, what is a prompt? It’s like, oh my god, like, shoot, I forgot, you don’t even know.
109 00:14:48.070 ⇒ 00:14:48.400 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
110 00:14:48.400 ⇒ 00:14:49.040 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: is.
111 00:14:49.250 ⇒ 00:15:01.679 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, right. It’s… it can be very easy to forget how much valuable knowledge you have, and can, and can demonstrate that value, even if you’re not that far ahead of someone. Like… like, you’re further ahead than you know.
112 00:15:02.700 ⇒ 00:15:06.049 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Exactly. I mean… Oh, yeah, like…
113 00:15:06.150 ⇒ 00:15:11.130 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I religiously use Cloud Code, so, I… I…
114 00:15:11.550 ⇒ 00:15:16.300 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, there’s just, like, a lot of things I’m… I’m, like, starting to…
115 00:15:16.420 ⇒ 00:15:20.480 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I’m starting to see as, like, coming back into this, it’s like,
116 00:15:20.890 ⇒ 00:15:36.750 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I started doing some fractional work for a friend of mine who, you know, some operations work. And then, like, when you compare, like, Brainforge, how we do ops, and then, like, I was… started helping this friend of mine out. I was like, wait a minute, we’re in very, very different places.
117 00:15:36.750 ⇒ 00:15:41.049 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you’re like, sure, I’ll run this whole thing.
118 00:15:41.940 ⇒ 00:15:59.659 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I was like, I was like, yeah, it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s very interesting. Like, even, like, the concept of MCPs and agents, like, especially because I’m in the cybersecurity world, like, there, there are some very large enterprises that I work with that have not even, like, gone past the chatbot.
119 00:15:59.910 ⇒ 00:16:01.130 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah.
120 00:16:01.130 ⇒ 00:16:02.530 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And it’s…
121 00:16:03.470 ⇒ 00:16:13.469 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And the thing is, like, in the marketing, right, it’s like, and you’ve probably… you’ve probably seen this more than I have, it’s like, they’ll be like, oh yeah, we’re doing this AI blah blah blah, and then you’re like, wait a minute.
122 00:16:14.050 ⇒ 00:16:16.150 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: You guys don’t even know what that is.
123 00:16:16.150 ⇒ 00:16:17.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Right, right.
124 00:16:17.780 ⇒ 00:16:19.090 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: No one in your company knows.
125 00:16:19.090 ⇒ 00:16:23.110 Greg Stoutenburg: You’re just gonna copy and paste this into ChatGPT and say, what do I do now?
126 00:16:23.490 ⇒ 00:16:42.860 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, exactly, and then even, like, the open call conversation, like, I was… I downloaded it, like, the first weekend it came out, when the guy vibe-coded it, like, it was going all over Twitter, and me and my CTO, we were like, oh yeah, like, oh, this is neat, and then we’re like, oh my gosh, this is really not actually
127 00:16:43.550 ⇒ 00:16:44.699 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Safe, at all.
128 00:16:44.700 ⇒ 00:16:46.879 Greg Stoutenburg: We’re like, this is…
129 00:16:46.880 ⇒ 00:16:59.580 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: This is, like, actually horribly coded, and, like, we’re already using agents, we don’t really need… we don’t really need OpenClaw, right? And then, yeah, like, it’s just, like, but 3 months later, there’s an enterprise I’m talking to right now.
130 00:16:59.600 ⇒ 00:17:17.659 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Just, like, just casually, because I know some sales guys over there, and they’re like, oh yeah, our VP, really interested in, in OpenClaw, and I was like, what do you mean? It’s been, like, 3 months. What do you mean you’re interested in OpenClaw now? Everyone is, like… what do you mean everyone’s used OpenClaw? What are you talking about?
131 00:17:17.660 ⇒ 00:17:19.990 Greg Stoutenburg: Story’s over, yeah.
132 00:17:19.990 ⇒ 00:17:27.929 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: But, but, like, but yeah, and then, and then Robert just surfaced it in the chat, like, no, it’s, like, the story isn’t over, it’s, like…
133 00:17:28.250 ⇒ 00:17:35.560 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: It’s been 3 months, but to us, 3 months is, like, an eternity, but to these… to most enterprises, 3 months is, like…
134 00:17:36.010 ⇒ 00:17:39.419 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: oh, you know, that’s one quarter. We’ll think about this thing.
135 00:17:39.420 ⇒ 00:17:40.749 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll think about it next quarter.
136 00:17:40.780 ⇒ 00:17:41.660 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah.
137 00:17:41.810 ⇒ 00:17:42.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.
138 00:17:42.510 ⇒ 00:17:46.800 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And so… so that’s why I think it’s very… there’s…
139 00:17:47.440 ⇒ 00:17:55.490 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: there’s a balance, I feel like, with the AI stuff, like, kind of tempering your expectations, I guess.
140 00:17:55.490 ⇒ 00:18:12.380 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, yeah, no, I agree, I agree, yeah. And really, yeah, and in a business like this one, just being able to capitalize on how little may have been done in a certain domain, like, that’s something that Robert has been pretty good at stressing. Like, he’ll be like, hey, here’s an example of something that I know really impressed our client. It’ll just be, like, this one-pager.
141 00:18:12.380 ⇒ 00:18:15.899 Greg Stoutenburg: Of observations that seem really ordinary.
142 00:18:15.980 ⇒ 00:18:22.050 Greg Stoutenburg: To most people who are working here, but, like, the client thought it was amazing, because they don’t have anyone who thinks about that kind of thing.
143 00:18:23.680 ⇒ 00:18:32.220 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, I mean, just even putting data together in a presentable format is already, like, oh my gosh, like, that’s crazy! Right, how’d you do that.
144 00:18:32.220 ⇒ 00:18:35.689 Greg Stoutenburg: that. It’s like, alright, hope you guys ever figure out cursor.
145 00:18:35.690 ⇒ 00:18:36.770 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Oh, yeah, that’s.
146 00:18:36.770 ⇒ 00:18:37.590 Greg Stoutenburg: up to us.
147 00:18:38.080 ⇒ 00:18:49.670 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I mean, well, the funny thing is, like, so many folks right now are actually moving away from Cursor. Interesting. And so, me, like, I was very reliant on Cursor over the last year.
148 00:18:49.740 ⇒ 00:18:59.140 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: But I started transitioning out of using it when, in around January, when Claude… when Claude Code’s, like, Skills Builder was.
149 00:18:59.140 ⇒ 00:18:59.960 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
150 00:18:59.960 ⇒ 00:19:07.460 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: leagues ahead of everyone. Yeah. And so it’s funny, because, like, I come… I come to Brainforge, and we’re super reliant on cursors.
151 00:19:07.460 ⇒ 00:19:08.739 Greg Stoutenburg: All about cursor, yeah.
152 00:19:08.990 ⇒ 00:19:09.760 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, and I’m like…
153 00:19:09.760 ⇒ 00:19:11.800 Greg Stoutenburg: You’ll have to make the case there, Tom.
154 00:19:12.320 ⇒ 00:19:17.990 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: No, I, well, I think… I think the thing is, like, Cursor is… is good.
155 00:19:18.110 ⇒ 00:19:24.900 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: with what we need. Claude code can be a lot for folks who don’t understand
156 00:19:25.010 ⇒ 00:19:36.420 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: what it can do. Like, it’s a little bit too much, in my opinion. Like, cloud code is, like, you can superpower an engineer, but it can be a lot if you don’t know
157 00:19:36.630 ⇒ 00:19:39.159 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: what you’re doing. Yeah.
158 00:19:39.160 ⇒ 00:19:40.200 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, fair.
159 00:19:40.200 ⇒ 00:19:55.979 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, and at least, like, we have really solid onboarding docs with, like, with Cursor, but there’s a reason that Claude came out with their Skilljar, like, courses and their certification, is because, like, the Cloud code rabbit hole is, like, so immensely deep now that
160 00:19:55.980 ⇒ 00:20:05.850 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: That, like, every week, or actually every other day, my CTO will be like, hey, did you know that Claude can do this now? And I’m like, what do you mean?
161 00:20:06.490 ⇒ 00:20:12.599 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Well, what do you mean you can do this now? Like, what was it doing yesterday? It’s like, well, like…
162 00:20:12.790 ⇒ 00:20:27.489 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And then, like, it’s stuff like that, right? And it’s, like, I think that’s also the one, once again, the risk of implementing AI is, like, it’s not even obsolescence, like, it’s not planned, it’s just that it advances so fast that stability is, like, forgotten.
163 00:20:27.510 ⇒ 00:20:39.580 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And so that’s why I like, you know, at least, at least with the way that Cursor works, it’s very familiar, I think, for folks who, like, haven’t made that transition to using, you know, only a chat interface for coding.
164 00:20:39.580 ⇒ 00:20:40.580 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
165 00:20:40.580 ⇒ 00:20:40.930 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Right?
166 00:20:40.930 ⇒ 00:20:41.410 Greg Stoutenburg: Damn.
167 00:20:41.410 ⇒ 00:20:43.430 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah.
168 00:20:44.020 ⇒ 00:20:54.619 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I have… I pay for Claude, and I started using Claude a lot more. I’d only opened code, like, a couple of times, and then I started here, and it was all just about cursor, so I’ve…
169 00:20:55.240 ⇒ 00:20:57.340 Greg Stoutenburg: there’s… there’s a lot I know I’m missing.
170 00:20:58.130 ⇒ 00:21:08.729 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, well, if you have any questions about how, like, the stuff with PockCode, I’m more than happy to, like, walk you through how I use it, and how my CPO uses it.
171 00:21:08.730 ⇒ 00:21:09.170 Greg Stoutenburg: That’d be great.
172 00:21:09.170 ⇒ 00:21:12.599 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: The craziest thing, and the reason that, like.
173 00:21:12.690 ⇒ 00:21:21.479 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: cursor is a little… is panicking right now, is there’s, like, these two new functions that… that Claude does really well, which is, like, their dispatch function.
174 00:21:21.520 ⇒ 00:21:27.519 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: So you can, like, dispatch tasks, or, like… basically, they took all the best parts of OpenClaw.
175 00:21:27.550 ⇒ 00:21:44.360 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And we’re like, wait, we can just put this in our application. And so, as long as you have a computer that’s open or can stay awake fully, you can dispatch tasks from the Cloud app on your phone, and it will do it from wherever it is, right? Which is exactly what people wanted OpenClaw to do.
176 00:21:44.360 ⇒ 00:21:44.730 Greg Stoutenburg: Right.
177 00:21:45.580 ⇒ 00:22:05.200 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And then the second thing is their, their cloud coding function. So, like, half the time, if, like, I’m out on a walk or whatever, and I’m like, oh, wait, I need to… I want to make this feature, I want to, oh, update this thing on a website, now that they have cloud, cloud coding sessions, you can just, like, prompt and even schedule
178 00:22:05.220 ⇒ 00:22:09.329 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: like, when a feature… like, oh, hey, I want this feature to be made at 8 AM tomorrow.
179 00:22:09.400 ⇒ 00:22:17.250 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And it will just start coding at 8 AM based on that, just like when you scheduled it. That’s amazing. And so, it’s, like, stuff like that, right?
180 00:22:17.250 ⇒ 00:22:17.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
181 00:22:17.680 ⇒ 00:22:20.700 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: That’s… like I said, they took Open Claw.
182 00:22:20.700 ⇒ 00:22:21.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
183 00:22:21.160 ⇒ 00:22:23.329 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: go and put it into quad. Yeah.
184 00:22:23.330 ⇒ 00:22:31.070 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, well, I’m… yeah, I’m gonna… I’m gonna need you to give me a demo then, because, I’ve got some stuff, I’ve got some stuff to do.
185 00:22:31.070 ⇒ 00:22:46.229 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, yeah. Also, they have… they have internal multi-agent orchestration now, so, like, before, I would have to have multiple, like, Windows or IDEs, like, working on parallel stuff. You can just call a skill, and it will, like.
186 00:22:46.280 ⇒ 00:23:00.459 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: run those agents in parallel, like, either leveraging additional cloud sessions, or doing it locally. So you can have, like, up to 8 to 9, like, agents working on 9 different features on the same product.
187 00:23:00.590 ⇒ 00:23:05.339 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And so, anyways, that’s just some stuff you can do now.
188 00:23:05.340 ⇒ 00:23:08.419 Greg Stoutenburg: Great, that’s… That is incredible.
189 00:23:08.660 ⇒ 00:23:10.559 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I didn’t know those things.
190 00:23:11.560 ⇒ 00:23:16.319 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, and the… like I said, like, now that… now that we know each other and…
191 00:23:16.320 ⇒ 00:23:16.700 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
192 00:23:16.700 ⇒ 00:23:29.309 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: you kind of know what I do as well. Yeah. Yeah, but just let me know, because I… literally, all me and my, like I said, my CTO, like, we maintain, like, 15 different products right now. Just for fun, it’s not like…
193 00:23:29.310 ⇒ 00:23:43.069 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Like, half of them have clients, half of them don’t, but, like, what’s crazy is, like, if one of the clients we work with, like, wants a change, like, we don’t need to spend a week fixing anything anymore. It’s just like, oh yeah, wait, wait, wait, let me, let me text, or let me, like, message Claude.
194 00:23:43.070 ⇒ 00:23:45.689 Greg Stoutenburg: Describe and deploy, that’s it. That’s great.
195 00:23:45.690 ⇒ 00:23:51.290 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And it does the PR, and like, if you have any merge conflicts, it just takes care of all of it. It’s…
196 00:23:51.290 ⇒ 00:23:51.810 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
197 00:23:51.810 ⇒ 00:23:57.390 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: It’s incredible, like, it’s a very, very different environment now, and so,
198 00:23:57.500 ⇒ 00:24:02.899 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, but even the stuff that Brainforge does is, like, is stuff I haven’t even seen before, which is…
199 00:24:02.900 ⇒ 00:24:03.380 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
200 00:24:03.380 ⇒ 00:24:08.430 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Like, they took agents and operationalized it to the state where, like.
201 00:24:09.020 ⇒ 00:24:11.520 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Most companies that think they’re advanced.
202 00:24:11.880 ⇒ 00:24:16.320 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: are not doing what Brainforger’s doing. Yeah. So…
203 00:24:17.210 ⇒ 00:24:25.259 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m looking at my Claude code interface right now. Yeah, your phone is like a walkie-talkie that can communicate with Claude on your computer. That’s amazing. Yeah.
204 00:24:25.260 ⇒ 00:24:39.280 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And you don’t even need to be nearby. You can just, like… like, I was out, like, I left… I left one of my computers just on, and I… I had to go to a dinner the other day, and I was just like, oh my gosh, like, there’s, like, this bug I forgot to fix, because I was demoing something.
205 00:24:39.280 ⇒ 00:24:51.150 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And I just had to, like, message Claude, and it pushed it… it pushed it to GitHub, which deployed it to Vercel, and then the… the new features were up. That’s great. Claude was at dinner.
206 00:24:51.530 ⇒ 00:24:52.770 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: I don’t know, I’m just…
207 00:24:52.770 ⇒ 00:24:54.360 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s amazing, yeah, yeah, yeah.
208 00:24:54.360 ⇒ 00:24:55.689 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Feels like magic, you know what I mean?
209 00:24:55.690 ⇒ 00:24:56.960 Greg Stoutenburg: around the world.
210 00:24:56.960 ⇒ 00:25:07.480 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, it’s… it’s… you feel like a… like, you have superpowers, which is, like, really insane. And also, they’re subsidizing it so much, so… Yeah.
211 00:25:07.480 ⇒ 00:25:10.740 Greg Stoutenburg: Today’s gonna come, they’re gonna… they’re gonna hand us this bill eventually.
212 00:25:11.220 ⇒ 00:25:22.499 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, but like, even… like, a lot of the VCs I’ve discussed this with, like, it’s probably not gonna be for at least 18 months. And so, if you can build everything you can within 18 months.
213 00:25:22.830 ⇒ 00:25:41.190 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: you’re… you’re golden. Like, you… you can… like, as long as you build tools and… and you get… you get comfortable with open source as well, like, these open source, coding agents as well, like, by the time 18 months gets by, it’s like, okay, like, you’re… you’re not really gonna miss Claude that much by that time.
214 00:25:41.210 ⇒ 00:25:47.840 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: And it’ll just be purely Enterprise who gets, like, the crazy, the crazy, like, advanced models.
215 00:25:47.840 ⇒ 00:25:48.420 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
216 00:25:49.290 ⇒ 00:25:57.349 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, alright, well, I need to hop to go talk to a client, great to meet you.
217 00:25:57.450 ⇒ 00:25:58.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, nice.
218 00:25:58.470 ⇒ 00:25:59.590 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Nice to meet you as well, Greg.
219 00:25:59.590 ⇒ 00:26:05.620 Greg Stoutenburg: this, yeah, so, I mean, I guess as your, as your Brainforge buddy,
220 00:26:05.620 ⇒ 00:26:24.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, I guess we just, like, check in at least weekly, and, you know, help with onboarding. Like, I mean, you know, you knowing Robert is… probably means you’re gonna have a sort of different intro than someone who just kind of came out of the street. But, you know, we’ll be in touch, and I’ll help with, like, whatever I can, you know.
221 00:26:24.470 ⇒ 00:26:28.599 Greg Stoutenburg: Especially things like, I guess, like, company culture, but… yeah.
222 00:26:28.650 ⇒ 00:26:30.260 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool, so I guess that’s the plan.
223 00:26:30.800 ⇒ 00:26:34.970 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Great, yeah, I mean, Robert, I have a meeting with Robert, like, in, like, 2 minutes, so…
224 00:26:34.970 ⇒ 00:26:42.470 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, yeah. Alright, similar day. Cool. Alright, well, hey, welcome to Brainforge, good to meet you. I’ll want that improve Cloud Code soon.
225 00:26:42.910 ⇒ 00:26:45.770 Jorrel Sto. Tomas: Yeah, yeah, just, yeah, we’ll chat, we’ll be on Slack.
226 00:26:45.770 ⇒ 00:26:48.060 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll talk soon. Cool. Alright, see ya.