Meeting Title: Brainforge Interview w- Uttam Date: 2026-03-23 Meeting participants: Garrett Gibson, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:01:02.140 ⇒ 00:01:03.200 Garrett Gibson: Testing.
2 00:01:06.350 ⇒ 00:01:07.350 Garrett Gibson: Testing.
3 00:01:09.810 ⇒ 00:01:10.790 Garrett Gibson: Testing.
4 00:03:28.030 ⇒ 00:03:29.310 Garrett Gibson: Hey, what’s up?
5 00:03:29.820 ⇒ 00:03:30.879 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, how are you?
6 00:03:30.880 ⇒ 00:03:32.580 Garrett Gibson: Good, how you doing today?
7 00:03:33.080 ⇒ 00:03:34.999 Uttam Kumaran: Good. How’s the week so far?
8 00:03:35.230 ⇒ 00:03:38.620 Garrett Gibson: Going good. Yeah, thanks so much for, taking the time.
9 00:03:38.620 ⇒ 00:03:44.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, of course, thank you. I’m pumped to get to chat, and I know I’ve had some great conversations with the team so far.
10 00:03:44.510 ⇒ 00:03:45.090 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
11 00:03:45.090 ⇒ 00:03:46.999 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I,
12 00:03:47.060 ⇒ 00:04:05.510 Uttam Kumaran: part of the reason today is we’re, you know, we’re just planning our next quarter, and we’re sort of, you know, understanding a little bit about where to fit everybody, and I think it… the team has had some really awesome conversations with you, so yeah, I’m just kind of here to, one, answer any questions, but also just put a face to a name, and
13 00:04:05.510 ⇒ 00:04:16.079 Uttam Kumaran: kind of also hear your feedback and, like, what you’re thinking about in terms of Brainforge, like, throughout your process, but I’ve heard really amazing things, so again, thank you for spending the time,
14 00:04:16.089 ⇒ 00:04:16.479 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
15 00:04:16.480 ⇒ 00:04:23.180 Uttam Kumaran: with us, we try to be very methodical, because our business is people, and there are only a few people right now.
16 00:04:23.180 ⇒ 00:04:23.820 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
17 00:04:23.820 ⇒ 00:04:24.490 Uttam Kumaran: Very, very…
18 00:04:24.490 ⇒ 00:04:24.950 Garrett Gibson: Karen.
19 00:04:24.950 ⇒ 00:04:27.429 Uttam Kumaran: You know? But, I appreciate it.
20 00:04:27.430 ⇒ 00:04:39.489 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, no, I’ve had some great conversations, and yeah, I’ve done, you know, a lot of research, kind of, on your company, you know, look at your website and the different use cases, in terms of the different clients, you know, that you’ve worked with, and…
21 00:04:39.510 ⇒ 00:04:54.390 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, I definitely think it aligns, you know, great with my background, and I think, I can definitely add a lot of value in terms of, you know, PMing different projects and, but also adding, you know, like, my analytical skills and kind of ability to…
22 00:04:54.440 ⇒ 00:04:57.660 Garrett Gibson: you know, leverage AI to, to kind of,
23 00:04:57.890 ⇒ 00:05:03.079 Garrett Gibson: Further, you know, projects along and, you know, add value, and things like that, so…
24 00:05:03.520 ⇒ 00:05:20.080 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, really, really excited in that regard. And then also, I found out, just talking more to Robert, is there would be kind of, like, a business development, you know, function to the role, so… and that also kind of excites me as well, because, I feel like that allows me to…
25 00:05:20.240 ⇒ 00:05:32.980 Garrett Gibson: Kind of, further other skills, like, in my career. So, you know, in terms of, like, scale, sales, and, just, you know, adding new business, right, to the, to the company, right, as a whole.
26 00:05:33.470 ⇒ 00:05:42.220 Garrett Gibson: And so I think, I, you know, over the years, I’ve… I’ve, built up my… my LinkedIn network, you know, that’s kind of how I’ve…
27 00:05:42.320 ⇒ 00:05:58.739 Garrett Gibson: tried to, you know, network with people across, you know, different industries and things like that, and it would be really interesting to me to kind of, you know, build, like, a business development plan and, you know, think through different strategies of, like, tapping into that network and how could I…
28 00:05:58.790 ⇒ 00:06:04.090 Garrett Gibson: you know, help Brainforge, be more successful, right, in that way, so…
29 00:06:04.280 ⇒ 00:06:09.069 Garrett Gibson: Those are just some of the things that I’ve, you know, personally kind of thought through as, you know, how I would…
30 00:06:09.180 ⇒ 00:06:13.020 Garrett Gibson: Add value, you know, in this role, so…
31 00:06:13.250 ⇒ 00:06:31.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you know, a couple of challenges that we’re facing right now, and so I currently lead, you know, delivery, and I’m still working on several clients myself. Absolutely. One of the biggest challenges we’re having, and this is, you know, I take responsibility, is we’re now at a point where, you know, we have a lot of
32 00:06:31.170 ⇒ 00:06:38.299 Uttam Kumaran: clients, we have a lot of people, and so we didn’t really stop at any point in the last year and, like, re-evaluate, like, what are our standards for delivery?
33 00:06:38.300 ⇒ 00:06:46.040 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sure you kind of probably heard a little bit about this, this process. That’s sort of, like, what I’m doing right now, going into this next quarter.
34 00:06:46.040 ⇒ 00:06:59.439 Uttam Kumaran: And really, like, one, I think that’s what people should expect from whoever’s in the head of delivery seat to say, like, what is BrainForge, what is, like, their Brainforged way of delivering. Of course, you also have to have, like, level of accountability and level of, okay.
35 00:06:59.660 ⇒ 00:07:01.170 Uttam Kumaran: Here are the standards, like.
36 00:07:01.170 ⇒ 00:07:01.680 Garrett Gibson: Exactly.
37 00:07:01.680 ⇒ 00:07:11.500 Uttam Kumaran: not hitting one of them, here’s how we can get you there, right? And so, I think we’re thinking really deeply about that. The problem right now is, like, I’m sort of the…
38 00:07:11.680 ⇒ 00:07:15.530 Uttam Kumaran: I have to… I’m playing both roles, and a whole host.
39 00:07:15.530 ⇒ 00:07:17.650 Garrett Gibson: It’s a lot on your plate.
40 00:07:17.650 ⇒ 00:07:22.179 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so one of the things we’re also thinking about is, you know, one, I don’t…
41 00:07:22.290 ⇒ 00:07:29.800 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I’m interested both in bringing people on that can directly come in and lead projects. I’m also interested in making…
42 00:07:29.920 ⇒ 00:07:31.910 Uttam Kumaran: And giving, like, clear…
43 00:07:31.970 ⇒ 00:07:44.929 Uttam Kumaran: path for people that want to elevate, in, like, a delivery team, path to do that. Like, one example is we have sort of these two, like, leadership roles right now, which is, like, client success owners and,
44 00:07:44.930 ⇒ 00:07:59.410 Uttam Kumaran: you know, sales, service leads. So service leads, kind of closer to, like, technical architects, they own a service, right? Like, I think a lot about, like, a Tesla factory, like, someone is just in charge of doors, and, like, they make amazing doors, but then someone is, like, in charge of, like.
45 00:07:59.950 ⇒ 00:08:14.700 Uttam Kumaran: cars need to get out, regardless of doors or whoever, right? And they’re picking all the pieces. And so, the customers, the client success owners, what their job is to do is make the client successful and achieve the outcomes. And both of those people have to pair.
46 00:08:14.790 ⇒ 00:08:22.609 Uttam Kumaran: And so my job is to set expectations really clear, but also give those people, like, room to work with each other. Like, I’m.
47 00:08:22.610 ⇒ 00:08:23.130 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
48 00:08:23.130 ⇒ 00:08:32.270 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to have to be in those meetings and be like, so-and-so, now you say this, you say… it’s like, I’m like… So what we’re moving to a model more… Yeah, we’re moving to a model that’s more of, like.
49 00:08:32.309 ⇒ 00:08:44.219 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, you two work together, or you work with whoever, whatever service we’ve sold, you work with those service leads, and you put together a project plan, and then that project plan has to almost go through, like, a defense.
50 00:08:44.300 ⇒ 00:09:02.730 Uttam Kumaran: Like, where I can review, and I can review with all of my background, and like, okay, what can you expect from this client, this client? And that’s kind of the model we’re moving towards. And so, we have these two roles, but some of the client success owners, I can tell they’re, like, some of them are interested in kind of going more towards sales.
51 00:09:02.730 ⇒ 00:09:07.730 Uttam Kumaran: They’re interested, like, in pure account management, but I don’t know if anybody’s capable of, like, sort of, like.
52 00:09:07.770 ⇒ 00:09:24.159 Uttam Kumaran: portfolio management. Service leads, all of them are people that would have skewed tech lead or solution architect anyways, so their job is both reliability, but also, like, the accuracy of forecasts, and, like, consistently being on the cutting edge of their service.
53 00:09:24.240 ⇒ 00:09:36.650 Uttam Kumaran: And so, like, we just have these three interesting areas where it’s both, like, what does the head of delivery need in terms of support structure? What do each of those individuals need in terms of support structure? And then, ultimately, it’s like, how do these…
54 00:09:36.750 ⇒ 00:09:42.210 Uttam Kumaran: How do they all have expectations for each other that lead to amazing client outcomes, you know?
55 00:09:42.210 ⇒ 00:09:42.820 Garrett Gibson: No.
56 00:09:43.210 ⇒ 00:09:52.739 Uttam Kumaran: spending a lot of time this week and last week sort of thinking about this, like, this puzzle of, like, okay, how do they manage up to me? What do I owe them? What do I owe each other? And, like, how do I…
57 00:09:52.930 ⇒ 00:10:02.790 Uttam Kumaran: how do I do the right thing, which is, like, release from micromanagement, but then still have clear clarity on, like, milestones or what to expect, you know?
58 00:10:02.790 ⇒ 00:10:07.160 Garrett Gibson: It’s almost like you need kind of, like, a portfolio… that portfolio layer, and then…
59 00:10:07.340 ⇒ 00:10:16.259 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, I can, like, a lot of my experience mostly stands, like, kind of roadmap planning, like, being able to see that, you know, big picture with milestones, and…
60 00:10:16.400 ⇒ 00:10:19.570 Garrett Gibson: Things like that, and I’ve leveraged AI,
61 00:10:19.810 ⇒ 00:10:32.019 Garrett Gibson: like, when I was recently at Disney, I built, like, a React Native app that just, like, spits out a PowerPoint slide, and I just, like, update it, you know, on the fly. Great. And, I mean, the executives loved it, I just, you know, delivered it.
62 00:10:32.020 ⇒ 00:10:40.869 Uttam Kumaran: No, you’ll actually be surprised. I’ll show you what I’m working on right now. I’m literally doing… I’m putting together all of our things in a… in a Figma Make.
63 00:10:41.140 ⇒ 00:10:42.200 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, exactly.
64 00:10:42.200 ⇒ 00:10:49.849 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m gonna publish this. I’m gonna say… because the other thing I realized is, like, I’m… people aren’t gonna read any of my docs, and I’m like, I also…
65 00:10:49.850 ⇒ 00:10:50.480 Garrett Gibson: I’m gonna…
66 00:10:50.480 ⇒ 00:10:54.839 Uttam Kumaran: Reference this 100,000 times in the next, like.
67 00:10:54.840 ⇒ 00:11:02.370 Uttam Kumaran: year or whatever. So, I want people to have a really clear idea and have something like, hey, you missed this standard.
68 00:11:02.370 ⇒ 00:11:14.850 Uttam Kumaran: This is it. This is the one. We all can see the same link, and I’m doing exactly that. So we also have a slide. We have a lot of those things also, but your mind is… your mind is right, is that for us, it’s less about.
69 00:11:14.850 ⇒ 00:11:15.410 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
70 00:11:15.410 ⇒ 00:11:26.830 Uttam Kumaran: like, I actually want to make… I’m actually gonna make it super, super easy for you to generate all of those project assets. It’s… it’s all trivial right now. Like, within 5 minutes, you can generate everything, but…
71 00:11:27.000 ⇒ 00:11:45.860 Uttam Kumaran: you still have to defend it in a meeting. So, that’s why it’s like, you can… you can slop everything together. I don’t care. Also, maybe if you don’t even need it, fine. It’s like, but you have to… the review meeting is the… is the sort of control, right? Because I may ask a question about, how did… how did this client make money?
72 00:11:46.900 ⇒ 00:11:50.940 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, if you’re just sort of satin linear all day, not doing anything, you have no idea.
73 00:11:51.360 ⇒ 00:12:09.519 Uttam Kumaran: what this company does, or I may ask, hey, why is that thing gonna take 8 weeks? That looks like something that should take 2 weeks. Okay, how… how far are you from the answer to that? Do you have notes from what the service lead said? Do you have an inkling? So that’s sort of how I’m, you know, I’m sort of thinking about it.
74 00:12:09.790 ⇒ 00:12:18.779 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, no, that’s a good idea. Yeah, I think in being able to kind of, you know, summarize at, like, that higher level, so then you don’t have to dig into the details, I think that’s the really important part.
75 00:12:19.350 ⇒ 00:12:19.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
76 00:12:19.770 ⇒ 00:12:26.210 Garrett Gibson: And definitely kind of where I’ve tried to leverage, you know, AI with, like, the, like, workstream, you know, tracking, like, kind of breaking down.
77 00:12:26.420 ⇒ 00:12:40.910 Garrett Gibson: Our project, like, into various work streams, and then, you know, tying them to milestones, in different, you know, resource groups, because, also that, like, sometimes you have dependencies, you know, on other teams, and then that can, you know, completely block.
78 00:12:40.910 ⇒ 00:12:41.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
79 00:12:41.280 ⇒ 00:12:42.970 Garrett Gibson: Milestone, you know, or something like that.
80 00:12:43.270 ⇒ 00:12:44.020 Garrett Gibson: So…
81 00:12:44.020 ⇒ 00:12:48.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m sort of curious about, like, how you… For your career, like.
82 00:12:49.670 ⇒ 00:12:55.110 Uttam Kumaran: how do you… how are you thinking about, like, leverage and elevating yourself? Like, does something like this, where it’s more of, like.
83 00:12:55.210 ⇒ 00:12:59.079 Uttam Kumaran: Portfolio management, or, you know, we could… you may call it, like.
84 00:12:59.210 ⇒ 00:13:11.400 Uttam Kumaran: activities that are sort of, like, director of delivery, again, which is like, okay, we have a delivery vision, like, we have margin targets, we have customer satisfaction targets. Do you find yourself more interested in, like.
85 00:13:11.750 ⇒ 00:13:25.439 Uttam Kumaran: playing a role at that level? Do you find yourself really interested in actually executing on a client? Like, what do you think is, like, the, like, drawing your attention and your energy? Yeah.
86 00:13:25.440 ⇒ 00:13:43.340 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely. Yeah, I would say, definitely, most of my experience is probably, like, at that portfolio level. Okay. Like, one big example is leading the transformation for Agile and DirecTV from satellite to DirecTV Stream. So that was, like, when they were implementing the DirecTV.
87 00:13:43.340 ⇒ 00:13:43.750 Uttam Kumaran: It’s true.
88 00:13:43.750 ⇒ 00:13:51.340 Garrett Gibson: app, and then I was standing up, Jira and JiraLine for the… all the scrum teams. It was, like, 60 scrum teams at that time.
89 00:13:51.340 ⇒ 00:13:51.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
90 00:13:51.820 ⇒ 00:14:06.560 Garrett Gibson: a huge effort. But then with that came, you know, custom reporting and dashboards, you know, for executives and setting up kind of the hierarchical structure, you know, of, like, defining epics and features and, you know, writing user stories and things like that.
91 00:14:06.720 ⇒ 00:14:10.310 Garrett Gibson: Yeah. But then I’ve also done more…
92 00:14:10.460 ⇒ 00:14:19.260 Garrett Gibson: In-depth, like, dashboard work, like, related to product management functions, so think, like, assessing, new features on an app.
93 00:14:19.380 ⇒ 00:14:24.240 Garrett Gibson: And then, like, looking at customer usage to see if that actually drives, like.
94 00:14:24.240 ⇒ 00:14:24.720 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm.
95 00:14:24.720 ⇒ 00:14:34.279 Garrett Gibson: subscriber growth, you know, things like that. So I think that’s kind of also some of the analysis that you’re thinking about, is like, you know, the work that we take on from various clients.
96 00:14:34.460 ⇒ 00:14:40.980 Garrett Gibson: How does that drive our internal, like, business KPIs? You know, like, customer satisfaction, like you said.
97 00:14:40.980 ⇒ 00:14:41.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
98 00:14:41.710 ⇒ 00:14:46.740 Garrett Gibson: You know, how… how does that look in terms of our client growth, you know, over time?
99 00:14:46.740 ⇒ 00:14:47.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
100 00:14:47.120 ⇒ 00:14:48.739 Garrett Gibson: like that, so…
101 00:14:49.330 ⇒ 00:15:05.119 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s interesting, you know, as I sort of think about delivery broadly, you know, we both need, like, the day-to-day, like, enforcement of standards, and then we need being able to be, like, arm’s reach from measurement on everything, you know, and I think it’s, like.
102 00:15:05.120 ⇒ 00:15:12.269 Garrett Gibson: myself, like, absolutely playing at both levels, like, I could see myself, like, creating some, like, monthly reporting, like, for you to kind of, like…
103 00:15:12.400 ⇒ 00:15:20.380 Garrett Gibson: Clicking, like, at the executive level, like, you know, by the various projects we’re working on, you know, by the various.
104 00:15:20.380 ⇒ 00:15:20.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
105 00:15:20.710 ⇒ 00:15:32.699 Garrett Gibson: And then, how does that correlate to, like, you know, business KPIs, but then also working on, more day-to-day, like, you know, taking on, like, an actual project, for a client, like, managing the delivery?
106 00:15:32.700 ⇒ 00:15:33.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
107 00:15:33.100 ⇒ 00:15:34.140 Garrett Gibson: Of that.
108 00:15:34.370 ⇒ 00:15:38.269 Garrett Gibson: So yeah, I could, you know, see myself playing kind of a different role there.
109 00:15:38.670 ⇒ 00:15:42.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, one thing that’s also interesting is I’m… I’m… kind of…
110 00:15:43.040 ⇒ 00:15:52.309 Uttam Kumaran: trying to run almost every team internally, also, like, this. Meaning we use, we use, we’re… we’re using linear…
111 00:15:52.410 ⇒ 00:15:54.649 Uttam Kumaran: For the most part, across every single team.
112 00:15:55.470 ⇒ 00:15:58.160 Uttam Kumaran: And…
113 00:15:58.360 ⇒ 00:16:07.020 Uttam Kumaran: we, like, I also lead our, like, internal platform team, and that team, we’re building, like, agents and skills and things like that for everybody.
114 00:16:07.190 ⇒ 00:16:15.150 Uttam Kumaran: And the nice thing is, like, I… I’m… yes, I’m, like, really focused on delivery, but I’m also, like, focused on broader…
115 00:16:15.420 ⇒ 00:16:22.450 Uttam Kumaran: like, measurement of sort of everything that we’re doing. But also, internally, I want our internal teams to
116 00:16:22.570 ⇒ 00:16:24.620 Uttam Kumaran: Proposed things like, we’re the client.
117 00:16:24.720 ⇒ 00:16:35.949 Uttam Kumaran: Right, let’s say Brainforge is your client. If, let’s say, like, you run operations, you still have to put a project plan together with your initiatives. You still have to answer, how does Brainforge make money?
118 00:16:35.950 ⇒ 00:16:36.950 Garrett Gibson: How does…
119 00:16:36.950 ⇒ 00:16:56.409 Uttam Kumaran: this operations thing ladder into that. I actually think we just copy-paste it to everybody, and it makes it super easy, because we can go from the project plan to linear milestones, tickets, and then execution, and further and further, a good chunk of the tickets are gonna get done by AI, like, end-to-end.
120 00:16:56.410 ⇒ 00:17:02.970 Uttam Kumaran: And so, that’s actually what we’re gonna start driving, so I almost see… there’s also scope to sort of even look
121 00:17:03.580 ⇒ 00:17:08.090 Uttam Kumaran: Broader, even, like, across the entire business, in terms of, like.
122 00:17:08.440 ⇒ 00:17:16.369 Uttam Kumaran: the measurement and the laddering up to, like, OKRs and goals. Like, wondering if you… when you hear about that, like, what do you… what do you think?
123 00:17:16.980 ⇒ 00:17:24.260 Garrett Gibson: No, I get really excited about that. One of the things I really like to do is also kind of define, KPIs and things like that.
124 00:17:24.390 ⇒ 00:17:28.990 Garrett Gibson: So, one of the interesting things I did, with the presentation is…
125 00:17:29.280 ⇒ 00:17:31.840 Garrett Gibson: You know, based on the sample data, I…
126 00:17:31.980 ⇒ 00:17:39.750 Garrett Gibson: you know, I asked AI the question, what, what KPIs are most, you know, would be the most valuable insights, right, to include in the presentation?
127 00:17:40.050 ⇒ 00:17:49.520 Garrett Gibson: But I didn’t just ask the question once. Also, I asked the question kind of in a variety of ways, and the reason why I did that is because I was trying to get to, like,
128 00:17:50.000 ⇒ 00:18:00.959 Garrett Gibson: like, in KPIs, like, whatever the function, you can always get to, like, a top 5 or, you know, something like that. I think it’s good to, you know, distill it to, like, a finite number of KPIs that have the most meaningful impact.
129 00:18:00.960 ⇒ 00:18:01.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
130 00:18:01.470 ⇒ 00:18:07.689 Garrett Gibson: And so, that was just kind of my thought, you know, approach. I wanted to do that, so…
131 00:18:07.690 ⇒ 00:18:09.549 Uttam Kumaran: Nice, nice, that’s great.
132 00:18:09.800 ⇒ 00:18:14.329 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think, like, that’s sort of where we are right now, I feel like.
133 00:18:14.700 ⇒ 00:18:28.480 Uttam Kumaran: see that you have… your background and your mind is much more analytical in, like, the way you’re gonna exert, sort of, leverage. Absolutely. And it’s also, I think, where I… where I come in and I think about it is, I’m like.
134 00:18:28.800 ⇒ 00:18:39.330 Uttam Kumaran: okay, I also want to see if Garrett can go beyond just, like, hey, our margin is low on this client, and here’s, like, how we should… here’s, like, what we can do to fix it.
135 00:18:39.330 ⇒ 00:18:41.780 Garrett Gibson: Plans and strategies, yeah, absolutely.
136 00:18:41.780 ⇒ 00:18:42.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I get rid of it.
137 00:18:42.630 ⇒ 00:18:44.349 Garrett Gibson: I’m excited about that also. I was like, yeah.
138 00:18:44.350 ⇒ 00:18:44.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
139 00:18:44.790 ⇒ 00:18:58.579 Garrett Gibson: you can always show the data and show, like, where we are, but it’s like, yeah, what mitigation do we have to bring a project back on track? Or, you know, if the revenue, KPIs are low, how do we, you know, what’s the plan to bring that up, right? So…
140 00:18:58.580 ⇒ 00:18:59.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
141 00:18:59.030 ⇒ 00:18:59.610 Garrett Gibson: That’s important.
142 00:18:59.610 ⇒ 00:19:03.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s great. And then, yeah, I mean, I think this team…
143 00:19:03.660 ⇒ 00:19:10.480 Uttam Kumaran: especially, like, I feel like it’s just me and one other person sort of on delivery right now. We’re using AI for everything, and so it’s…
144 00:19:10.860 ⇒ 00:19:15.750 Uttam Kumaran: It’s deeply integrated into the way everybody’s gonna project plan and execute on clients.
145 00:19:16.140 ⇒ 00:19:30.950 Uttam Kumaran: But again, it’s like, our team sets their standard, like, how do we create templates for everything, and then how do we use AI to help aid us in reviewing and finding risks? You know, I think there’s a huge… like, it’s… I’ve yet to read anything about
146 00:19:31.070 ⇒ 00:19:39.880 Uttam Kumaran: consulting portfolio management with the use of AI, like, I barely read about some of the stuff I’m talking about now, because I just feel like it’s so new.
147 00:19:40.300 ⇒ 00:19:49.830 Garrett Gibson: No, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s really interesting, like, even, I’m just reading up on, like, some AWS, you know, certifications, so one of them I’m looking up is the, like, the AI practitioner.
148 00:19:50.010 ⇒ 00:19:57.640 Garrett Gibson: But even though I like the material in those certifications within, like, the last year, you know, probably, which makes those, you know, really exciting to kind of dig into.
149 00:19:57.640 ⇒ 00:19:58.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
150 00:19:58.090 ⇒ 00:20:00.250 Garrett Gibson: That’s, like, you know, current knowledge.
151 00:20:00.450 ⇒ 00:20:12.499 Garrett Gibson: And so… but yeah, you’re right. I mean, not a lot of people are, I think, leveraging AI in a, like, a complex way. They’re just using it more of, like, a back-and-forth chat, you know, kind of like…
152 00:20:12.960 ⇒ 00:20:18.840 Uttam Kumaran: I think about, for my view, like, we’ve defined, sort of, the unit of work here as a ticket.
153 00:20:19.190 ⇒ 00:20:22.039 Uttam Kumaran: And so everything has to go through a ticket.
154 00:20:22.040 ⇒ 00:20:22.480 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
155 00:20:22.480 ⇒ 00:20:30.999 Uttam Kumaran: That way, everything can be defined, have acceptance, and then, naturally, we are already starting to assign some of those tickets to AI to execute.
156 00:20:31.000 ⇒ 00:20:31.530 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
157 00:20:31.530 ⇒ 00:20:35.979 Uttam Kumaran: And that percentage share should go up over time, because you can’t ultimately, like…
158 00:20:36.120 ⇒ 00:20:38.730 Uttam Kumaran: It’s harder to gain the number of tickets.
159 00:20:38.880 ⇒ 00:20:50.729 Uttam Kumaran: And so, ultimately, like, yes, I want to look at, as a percentage share of work, like, this is what I’m going to go to the service leads with. I’m going to say this quarter, I want to see how you guys can achieve.
160 00:20:51.100 ⇒ 00:20:54.120 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe it’s, like, 25% of your tickets get.
161 00:20:54.120 ⇒ 00:20:54.660 Garrett Gibson: Yep.
162 00:20:54.900 ⇒ 00:20:57.680 Uttam Kumaran: done with AI, or get end-to-end handed off.
163 00:20:57.830 ⇒ 00:21:00.790 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m gonna… I’ll put a bonus Associated with that, you know?
164 00:21:00.790 ⇒ 00:21:05.900 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, when I was at Apple, I built, like, a capacity planning model based on the JIRA data.
165 00:21:05.900 ⇒ 00:21:06.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
166 00:21:06.360 ⇒ 00:21:10.810 Garrett Gibson: So, like, the teams would assign, you know, story points based on sprint assignments, so then…
167 00:21:10.810 ⇒ 00:21:11.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
168 00:21:11.230 ⇒ 00:21:17.299 Garrett Gibson: Like, we would just say, like, okay, like, one resource shouldn’t take on more than 30 story points, you know?
169 00:21:17.300 ⇒ 00:21:17.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
170 00:21:17.690 ⇒ 00:21:26.300 Garrett Gibson: work in one sprint, so it’s kind of easy to see, like, okay, certain folks might be, you know, under capacity, so they might be able to, you know, be allocated more tickets, you know.
171 00:21:26.300 ⇒ 00:21:26.690 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly.
172 00:21:27.410 ⇒ 00:21:37.249 Garrett Gibson: So yeah, it’s good, having, like, the ticket tracking system, because then you can, create KPIs, you know, like, slice it by teams and things like that.
173 00:21:37.770 ⇒ 00:21:38.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
174 00:21:38.270 ⇒ 00:21:46.299 Garrett Gibson: And how I built that is I just, like, warehoused the data in PostgreSQL, and then used AI to build, like, the SQL, you know, kind of data models.
175 00:21:46.420 ⇒ 00:21:47.080 Garrett Gibson: Nice.
176 00:21:47.290 ⇒ 00:21:51.070 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we have all of our data from Linear sitting there now, and…
177 00:21:51.070 ⇒ 00:21:51.430 Garrett Gibson: Awesome.
178 00:21:51.430 ⇒ 00:22:09.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And so, for me, my… what I… my leverage is, I’m like, okay, I can pick the tool, and I can enforce that, but then, yeah, there’s so much work to be done on the measurement side, and then also, again, there’s a resource allocation on the, okay, let’s look at next month, let’s look at how much revenue, what is our, like, what is our…
179 00:22:09.250 ⇒ 00:22:09.830 Garrett Gibson: Stuff like that.
180 00:22:09.830 ⇒ 00:22:22.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, what’s our dollar per hour goal? And, like, how do we set the hours? What’s a buffer? And then, ultimately, it’s like, how does this team enable both of those delivery leaders? The service lead and the CSO?
181 00:22:23.720 ⇒ 00:22:25.290 Uttam Kumaran: How do we provide them
182 00:22:25.410 ⇒ 00:22:34.239 Uttam Kumaran: access to their metrics, like, at arm’s reach. How do we… when something slips, how do we work with them to understand, like, mitigation?
183 00:22:34.240 ⇒ 00:22:37.529 Garrett Gibson: specific reports, you know, specific for their organizations and their.
184 00:22:37.530 ⇒ 00:22:47.609 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and because these… everybody here now is just gonna… is just gonna go up, and so really having them set the foundation and the fundamentals is gonna allow
185 00:22:47.740 ⇒ 00:22:51.570 Uttam Kumaran: The new people under them to sort of… sort of see that as well, you know?
186 00:22:51.570 ⇒ 00:22:52.070 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
187 00:22:52.070 ⇒ 00:22:53.639 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s… yeah.
188 00:22:53.640 ⇒ 00:23:04.590 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, I think there definitely can be, like, standardized reporting by, different area and things like that, and, I think that all would kind of roll up to, like, that portfolio level, you know, like you mentioned.
189 00:23:04.920 ⇒ 00:23:05.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
190 00:23:05.270 ⇒ 00:23:07.679 Garrett Gibson: Being able to kind of slice and dice it, and…
191 00:23:07.790 ⇒ 00:23:12.260 Garrett Gibson: Everything flowing through one, you know, ticketing system, I think.
192 00:23:12.650 ⇒ 00:23:17.289 Garrett Gibson: You know, that could be an opportunity to, to leverage, you know, from a measurement.
193 00:23:17.460 ⇒ 00:23:18.920 Garrett Gibson: Kind of perspective.
194 00:23:19.260 ⇒ 00:23:19.880 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
195 00:23:21.020 ⇒ 00:23:24.849 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, I mean, tell me what, what other questions do you have? What else can I answer about…
196 00:23:25.420 ⇒ 00:23:27.689 Uttam Kumaran: About the business, or about what we’re doing, yeah.
197 00:23:27.690 ⇒ 00:23:46.029 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely. Yeah, I wrote some down, actually. Let me, see what’s the good one here to ask. So I guess just, like, coming into the role, like, the first, you know, like, like, 90 days, would you say, like, my kind of function would be more towards, like, the PM side, like, a specific…
198 00:23:46.380 ⇒ 00:23:48.840 Garrett Gibson: Projects, or something like that?
199 00:23:49.050 ⇒ 00:23:49.720 Garrett Gibson: It’s kind of like…
200 00:23:49.720 ⇒ 00:23:50.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
201 00:23:50.260 ⇒ 00:23:52.739 Garrett Gibson: items that I would want to ask, yeah.
202 00:23:53.280 ⇒ 00:24:06.719 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think most of it, like, I think most of the skill set would be around, like, project management and portfolio management. I still think that right now, we’re hoping that, you know, folks that are senior on clients, or folks that are senior
203 00:24:06.870 ⇒ 00:24:14.670 Uttam Kumaran: within the company can still work on clients. Like, even me, my number one initial goal is actually just move me off of that.
204 00:24:15.210 ⇒ 00:24:16.449 Uttam Kumaran: Go do other things.
205 00:24:16.450 ⇒ 00:24:18.020 Garrett Gibson: That makes the most sense, yeah.
206 00:24:18.020 ⇒ 00:24:34.109 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, so I do think that there’s going to be still… but I also think that’s gonna help you sharpen the systems you may build for others, but that’s why I also… I also… even… there’s… I don’t know if we’re gonna have pure play, portfolio, or delivery team folks.
207 00:24:34.270 ⇒ 00:24:53.790 Uttam Kumaran: because I don’t know, I think it’s helpful to still be on the ground, like, I’m still on the ground doing stuff every day. And so, I think it’s gonna be a mix, but hearing your background, yes, I think having you come onto, like, more… a project with multiple work streams, like, we have a couple clients with, like, 5, 6, 7 work streams.
208 00:24:54.300 ⇒ 00:25:04.819 Uttam Kumaran: several different people involved, like, kind of complicated, you know, set of expectations. That’s where I think… and that’s the kind of plans we’re gonna move into. Like, we are moving past
209 00:25:04.970 ⇒ 00:25:14.830 Uttam Kumaran: sort of this, these, like, small SMB mid-market. We’re going pretty fast into large enterprise, where there’s, like, a pretty complex set of work streams.
210 00:25:14.830 ⇒ 00:25:15.150 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
211 00:25:15.150 ⇒ 00:25:19.860 Uttam Kumaran: I’m in some of those clients right now, and that’s where I would see your skill set fitting in perfectly.
212 00:25:19.860 ⇒ 00:25:33.540 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, just to add to that, it sounds like with the bigger, kind of, enterprise clients, there’s more opportunities to have, like, a Phase 2, even, like, a Phase 3, once… Yes. …we’ve kind of already, like, introduced, like, a successful first iteration, like, of our.
213 00:25:33.540 ⇒ 00:25:34.010 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
214 00:25:34.010 ⇒ 00:25:35.190 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, and things like that.
215 00:25:35.190 ⇒ 00:25:45.409 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so usually we come in, we do some, like, month or two month-long discovery, and then we propose, and then it’s sort of just, like, at every moment, you sort of under-promise, over-deliver.
216 00:25:45.410 ⇒ 00:25:45.800 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
217 00:25:45.800 ⇒ 00:26:03.149 Uttam Kumaran: try to just do that as much as possible. Like, I think with… with Kayla coming on, like, we feel really confident about our… the supply side of our business, like, getting really talented people in the door. I think now we’ve… what we’ve always had challenges with is communication and planning, because most of our crew is engineers.
218 00:26:03.150 ⇒ 00:26:07.080 Uttam Kumaran: Just because that’s who I am, and Robert is, and so I feel.
219 00:26:07.080 ⇒ 00:26:08.500 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, so…
220 00:26:08.500 ⇒ 00:26:19.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re now filling out the sort of, like, poise, the account management, and so the client… the client success owners are going to be more like account managers in the long tail.
221 00:26:19.710 ⇒ 00:26:20.109 Garrett Gibson: makes sense.
222 00:26:20.110 ⇒ 00:26:39.209 Uttam Kumaran: You know, because I think, like, I think they’re able to… we’re able to use AI to do a lot of the base-level project management. Then they’re… so, kind of what we did is, like, I… I had the opportunity to, like, try and do a traditional, like, PMO, but I… I really, like, I was a product manager at one point. I did, like, all the kind of normal stuff.
223 00:26:39.260 ⇒ 00:26:58.080 Uttam Kumaran: I just had, like, an allergy to, like, these sometimes the process, because it assumes that, like, you have to set this floor process, and that we have people that, like, can’t use their brain to just decide, like, what’s the valuable process. Right. So I’ve always sort of attacked that notion, and I think once we got really good with AI in the last year and a half.
224 00:26:58.080 ⇒ 00:27:03.549 Uttam Kumaran: I realized that, like, actually, the engineers can just do the project management themselves.
225 00:27:03.680 ⇒ 00:27:06.189 Uttam Kumaran: And then similarly for, like, account management, so we collapsed.
226 00:27:06.510 ⇒ 00:27:23.899 Uttam Kumaran: into, like, sort of three roles. One was… we had what’s called Engagement Planner, and then this… this quarter, we’re actually just removing that role, too. So then it just leads, like, one person is the person who, for every client, there’s a client success owner. You are, like, the Domino’s, like, delivery driver, like.
227 00:27:23.910 ⇒ 00:27:37.979 Uttam Kumaran: you have the baked pie, has to be right, and the service lead is really the one that’s opinionated about each part of the service that we sell. And we sell a multitude of services, sometimes some to one client, sometimes just one to a client.
228 00:27:38.040 ⇒ 00:27:46.740 Uttam Kumaran: But again, like, I wanted to create that dynamic and that separation, and naturally, I want to show people that those are the only two places to grow.
229 00:27:46.950 ⇒ 00:27:51.479 Uttam Kumaran: Like, if you’re an IC, there’s only two paths. There’s no… there’s no other path.
230 00:27:51.480 ⇒ 00:27:52.759 Garrett Gibson: Hell fight, essentially, right?
231 00:27:52.760 ⇒ 00:28:07.450 Uttam Kumaran: You can go towards account management, or you go towards, like, service lead, and then from there, yeah, service lead, maybe there’s, like, some sales engineering SKU, or maybe the CSO, maybe there’s some more go-to-market SKU, and I’ll think about that next, but yeah, make it very, very simple, and then
232 00:28:07.450 ⇒ 00:28:12.789 Uttam Kumaran: we have to find a way to make both of those, like, have a revenue-generating component, you know? Yeah.
233 00:28:13.000 ⇒ 00:28:13.590 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
234 00:28:13.590 ⇒ 00:28:14.350 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
235 00:28:14.650 ⇒ 00:28:27.150 Garrett Gibson: No, that’s really good feedback. And then I guess, what’s, like, I guess the biggest gap? I think… sounds like more, kind of, measurement, right, at that portfolio level, like, you know, that this higher, kind of, is meant?
236 00:28:27.150 ⇒ 00:28:41.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it’s… I think it’s both the measurement at the portfolio level, like, for the most part in this business, I have just a spidey sense for, like, when things are slipping, and it has… we have to move that into something measurable.
237 00:28:41.100 ⇒ 00:28:43.570 Garrett Gibson: Formal kind of, reporting, right, and things like that.
238 00:28:43.570 ⇒ 00:28:48.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but we have a huge bias for action. Like, I don’t think I am…
239 00:28:49.100 ⇒ 00:29:05.959 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t need to have the entire answer to know that kind of the direction something goes, and so what I kind of describe that as, like, intuition. And I’m trying to build everybody’s intuition. I want people to rely less and less on, like.
240 00:29:06.410 ⇒ 00:29:22.969 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, yes, I think there’s two things. There’s one, yes, there should be a handbook for everything, but ultimately, you’re in the field, you’re in a call, like, how do you act? I think we have to build people’s intuition. I think that’s gonna take training and mentorship, so I think learning and development is gonna become…
241 00:29:22.970 ⇒ 00:29:23.430 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
242 00:29:23.430 ⇒ 00:29:27.610 Uttam Kumaran: a lot bigger piece of what we do. But I would say it’s…
243 00:29:28.060 ⇒ 00:29:31.760 Uttam Kumaran: Going into this quarter, the standards are going to be clear for how we deliver.
244 00:29:32.140 ⇒ 00:29:33.660 Uttam Kumaran: I think I’m gonna clean up.
245 00:29:33.930 ⇒ 00:29:40.079 Uttam Kumaran: some of the things that’s prevented us from looking one month, three months ahead for clients, we’ve sometimes just been, like, week to week to week.
246 00:29:40.080 ⇒ 00:29:42.470 Garrett Gibson: Maybe have, like, a quarterly plan or something like that?
247 00:29:42.470 ⇒ 00:29:45.979 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s, like, what we’re kind of gonna ship and work on, so…
248 00:29:45.980 ⇒ 00:29:52.199 Garrett Gibson: It’s a very common concept at Apple, I remember when I was there. They did a lot of, like, quarterly kind of planning, things like that.
249 00:29:52.200 ⇒ 00:30:07.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, when an SOW gets sold, that immediately needs to get broken down by the CSO for that client. They can go to all their service leads and get the input on the timeline, and they have to present it. And then, yes, like, I think either it’s gonna be attached to the
250 00:30:07.960 ⇒ 00:30:19.529 Uttam Kumaran: order, or it’s gonna be attached to the SOW, like, probably whatever’s shorter, you know? I think at minimum, I want to see 3 months out. Yeah. I would like us to go even further, so… but it’s like, yeah, you know?
251 00:30:19.530 ⇒ 00:30:24.690 Garrett Gibson: Maybe you can have it, like, higher level, like, 6 months out, but then, like, 3 months is, like, more.
252 00:30:24.690 ⇒ 00:30:28.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and then what we can do is we start to measure distance from plan.
253 00:30:28.760 ⇒ 00:30:29.240 Garrett Gibson: Exactly.
254 00:30:29.240 ⇒ 00:30:49.210 Uttam Kumaran: you can… I can use AI, have an AI skill that looks through our linear board, looks at the SOW, and is like, here are where we’ve, like… what went… what took longer. Because that’s actually the thing, if you… we… most of our job is going to be more project planning than ever, because the execution, it’s going to rip through, and we’re… we’re good at that.
255 00:30:49.280 ⇒ 00:30:51.430 Uttam Kumaran: even without AI, but the problem.
256 00:30:51.430 ⇒ 00:30:56.100 Garrett Gibson: Planning the next 3 months out, and then kind of recalibrating, like, week by week.
257 00:30:56.100 ⇒ 00:31:00.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and the recalibration process, we want to be ahead of their client on that.
258 00:31:01.190 ⇒ 00:31:13.949 Uttam Kumaran: We want to notice there’s a slip, understand, like, whose fault it was, understand, like, how we can mitigate and propose. We’ve just… I sort of describe it again as, like, we’re… we are… we can’t be on the back foot all the time.
259 00:31:14.290 ⇒ 00:31:17.540 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s tough, it’s tough as consultants. You have to be, like, forward.
260 00:31:17.780 ⇒ 00:31:18.400 Garrett Gibson: Absolutely.
261 00:31:18.400 ⇒ 00:31:20.000 Uttam Kumaran: You have to manage the client, you know?
262 00:31:20.000 ⇒ 00:31:20.820 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, no, totally.
263 00:31:20.820 ⇒ 00:31:21.280 Uttam Kumaran: as well.
264 00:31:21.280 ⇒ 00:31:25.999 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, you gotta… and that’s the best way to manage the relationship, right? They want to see that you’re in control.
265 00:31:26.000 ⇒ 00:31:27.970 Uttam Kumaran: You’re a partner, and you care.
266 00:31:27.970 ⇒ 00:31:28.330 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
267 00:31:28.330 ⇒ 00:31:39.150 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you’re like, this slipped, and, like, we care a lot, we don’t want it to slip, versus shoving it under the rug, but again, some of these things are, like, survival instincts. Now it has to change to, like.
268 00:31:39.560 ⇒ 00:31:42.310 Uttam Kumaran: I have to try to keep the bar very, very high.
269 00:31:42.310 ⇒ 00:31:44.710 Garrett Gibson: Kind of operational standards, right?
270 00:31:44.710 ⇒ 00:31:45.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
271 00:31:45.420 ⇒ 00:31:46.070 Garrett Gibson: Yep.
272 00:31:46.070 ⇒ 00:31:54.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. A lot of things are unspoken. A lot of things are unspoken, so now we have to sort of codify them pretty specifically.
273 00:31:54.340 ⇒ 00:32:06.410 Garrett Gibson: But yeah, I think it’s good to, like, formalize that, and, like, documentation, like, high-level presentations, and things like that, and yeah, that turns in, like you mentioned, learning and development, you know, training for folks, that kind of.
274 00:32:06.410 ⇒ 00:32:18.149 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I don’t think we can avoid that. I think we are gonna find that we are very different than, I think, the industry and a lot of the ways we do things. The only way we’re gonna enforce that is through training folks, like.
275 00:32:18.150 ⇒ 00:32:19.100 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, I think we’re gonna.
276 00:32:19.100 ⇒ 00:32:31.890 Uttam Kumaran: find people with the aptitude and the potential, and then we are going to have an opinion on the way. Because also, again, a lot of the ways that we’re working, especially using AI, is, like, not commonplace. And so…
277 00:32:32.020 ⇒ 00:32:41.000 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a lot of change management, also, because the way people are working at this company is different today than it was 3 months ago, 3 months before that.
278 00:32:41.110 ⇒ 00:32:42.000 Uttam Kumaran: It’s…
279 00:32:42.000 ⇒ 00:32:43.169 Garrett Gibson: AI is one of the…
280 00:32:43.170 ⇒ 00:32:43.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
281 00:32:43.530 ⇒ 00:32:45.640 Garrett Gibson: pace that is changing, also.
282 00:32:45.640 ⇒ 00:32:57.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the pace is really, really tough, and I can tell it’s tough for some people, because they… like, and so how do we make it easier? And so we are committing a lot of more resources to, like, learning and development this quarter, so…
283 00:32:57.240 ⇒ 00:32:58.800 Garrett Gibson: Awesome. That’s great.
284 00:32:59.050 ⇒ 00:33:15.200 Garrett Gibson: And I guess, I guess the last one I’ll ask here is, how do you see the role kind of evolving? Like, do you think, like, after, kind of, like, you know, portfolio management and stuff, would I be… would you want me more involved in, like, the account management side and things like that, do you think?
285 00:33:15.200 ⇒ 00:33:20.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s kind of a good question, I mean, it’s sort of hard to say.
286 00:33:20.190 ⇒ 00:33:20.530 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
287 00:33:20.530 ⇒ 00:33:26.159 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think, okay, if our company doubles in revenue, doubles in clients.
288 00:33:26.760 ⇒ 00:33:37.109 Uttam Kumaran: I am sort of of the mind, I have to attack the limiting… the most limiting factor at any time. So right now, the most limiting factor is the standard setting.
289 00:33:37.700 ⇒ 00:33:43.400 Uttam Kumaran: And the ability for people to come to work and know exactly what’s expected of them, that’s, like, literally right now the limitation.
290 00:33:43.400 ⇒ 00:33:43.780 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
291 00:33:43.780 ⇒ 00:33:48.090 Uttam Kumaran: The next piece is gonna be for the delivery team to proactively find
292 00:33:48.200 ⇒ 00:33:55.670 Uttam Kumaran: what the limiting factor is, right? So we systematically measure in order to find the limiting factor.
293 00:33:55.920 ⇒ 00:34:03.050 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I think, like, if the business were, you know, to double, like, we hope, I would say…
294 00:34:03.370 ⇒ 00:34:11.579 Uttam Kumaran: I do think training becomes another issue. I do think we’re gonna go into a class of clients that we’ve never worked with before, like.
295 00:34:11.929 ⇒ 00:34:16.919 Uttam Kumaran: Fortune 1000, so there’s a different level of account management there than there is here.
296 00:34:17.320 ⇒ 00:34:24.010 Uttam Kumaran: So again, I think you… people on the team will have a choice. Do you want to work in the machine?
297 00:34:24.010 ⇒ 00:34:25.009 Garrett Gibson: Yeah, you can go either way.
298 00:34:25.010 ⇒ 00:34:26.710 Uttam Kumaran: Or do you want to work on a machine?
299 00:34:26.719 ⇒ 00:34:27.059 Garrett Gibson: And I think.
300 00:34:27.060 ⇒ 00:34:27.420 Uttam Kumaran: I think…
301 00:34:28.380 ⇒ 00:34:36.820 Uttam Kumaran: right now, people are both, I think it’ll get bifurcated, like, most people will have to make a decision at some point, whether you want to work and build
302 00:34:36.969 ⇒ 00:34:51.040 Uttam Kumaran: the system for the people and for the clients to have a repeatable process, or do you want to, like, be in the game on, like, one client and fishing? Sort of just, like, I think both are available, and what I’m gonna…
303 00:34:51.040 ⇒ 00:34:51.980 Garrett Gibson: It’s kinda, yeah.
304 00:34:51.980 ⇒ 00:35:04.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I’m gonna… and what I’ve always done is everybody at the company gets the first dibs on whatever role appears, you know, and so we’ve always done that. We’ve never created something and been like.
305 00:35:04.740 ⇒ 00:35:13.230 Uttam Kumaran: okay, like, we have to go outside. I’m like, I feel like I can… we can totally nurture people. People have changed a lot in this job, and so…
306 00:35:13.230 ⇒ 00:35:13.660 Garrett Gibson: Meh.
307 00:35:13.660 ⇒ 00:35:19.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so everything’s open, so again, I think it just depends. But there’s also, again, there’s a ton of other roles. There’s, like.
308 00:35:19.310 ⇒ 00:35:28.789 Uttam Kumaran: you could go more technical and actually go work on AI stuff. There’s also, of course, there’s… we’re gonna… we’re gonna roll out more significant, like, sales engineering.
309 00:35:29.100 ⇒ 00:35:35.819 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so there’s… yeah, there’s a lot of ways to kind of contribute. I just think it’s just gonna get, like.
310 00:35:35.960 ⇒ 00:35:40.380 Uttam Kumaran: More clear, versus before, it just used to be like, oh, we’re just a bunch of people, like, doing everything, you know?
311 00:35:40.380 ⇒ 00:35:42.960 Garrett Gibson: Now you have, like, more structure around…
312 00:35:42.960 ⇒ 00:35:50.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, which is good. We… I want us… we need to be getting more structured, not less urgent, or… or…
313 00:35:50.570 ⇒ 00:35:52.250 Garrett Gibson: That’s the way to really grow, I think.
314 00:35:52.250 ⇒ 00:35:52.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
315 00:35:52.600 ⇒ 00:35:54.730 Garrett Gibson: In a more meaningful way, right, I think?
316 00:35:54.730 ⇒ 00:35:55.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
317 00:35:55.180 ⇒ 00:35:56.850 Garrett Gibson: Over time, yeah.
318 00:35:56.850 ⇒ 00:35:57.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, definitely.
319 00:35:57.980 ⇒ 00:35:58.510 Garrett Gibson: Yeah.
320 00:35:58.800 ⇒ 00:35:59.679 Garrett Gibson: Yeah. Cool.
321 00:36:00.340 ⇒ 00:36:05.449 Garrett Gibson: Awesome, man. Well, yeah, I think those are kind of the main, main ones I had written down.
322 00:36:05.450 ⇒ 00:36:24.989 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Yeah, let me know if there’s any other thoughts. I mean, I… I do think that there’s a… you know, I feel like I’m reevaluating sort of how our delivery team works right now. I can see certainly a path for you to fit in, so let me take some notes from this conversation, and have a chat with Robert and Kayla, and get back to you.
323 00:36:24.990 ⇒ 00:36:33.070 Garrett Gibson: Awesome. That sounds great. Yeah, well, again, Tom, yeah, I really appreciate you, taking the time, and yeah, looking forward to see how I can contribute.
324 00:36:33.070 ⇒ 00:36:34.639 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect. Thanks, Kara. Appreciate it.
325 00:36:34.640 ⇒ 00:36:36.759 Garrett Gibson: Alright, thanks. Have a good rest of your day.
326 00:36:36.760 ⇒ 00:36:37.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you too, bye.