Meeting Title: Kat - Greg - Event Tracking Review Date: 2026-03-20 Meeting participants: Greg Stoutenburg, Advait Nandakumar Menon, Kat Gillis
WEBVTT
1 00:00:14.560 ⇒ 00:00:16.610 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, I just got a ping.
2 00:00:19.810 ⇒ 00:00:21.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Nope.
3 00:00:27.380 ⇒ 00:00:29.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, can’t answer that right now.
4 00:00:30.030 ⇒ 00:00:31.420 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
5 00:00:31.700 ⇒ 00:00:32.720 Greg Stoutenburg: Analytics.
6 00:00:33.620 ⇒ 00:00:35.159 Greg Stoutenburg: To the engineers, right?
7 00:00:37.900 ⇒ 00:00:38.950 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ll turn it on.
8 00:00:56.780 ⇒ 00:01:01.650 Greg Stoutenburg: Holy… Okay, so we’re just waiting for Kat to sign on.
9 00:01:02.090 ⇒ 00:01:04.169 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll discover a minute.
10 00:01:33.500 ⇒ 00:01:36.270 Greg Stoutenburg: Eden Pharmacy, DMs…
11 00:01:43.220 ⇒ 00:01:44.190 Greg Stoutenburg: Anyways.
12 00:01:45.310 ⇒ 00:01:52.899 Greg Stoutenburg: Well, I’ll give Kat a minute, and then send her a ping.
13 00:01:53.860 ⇒ 00:01:54.480 Advait Nandakumar Menon: True.
14 00:01:56.120 ⇒ 00:02:05.600 Greg Stoutenburg: So, if you look in the Slack channel there, you’ll see that Kat has provided a bunch of information about things that they know, things that they’re looking for.
15 00:02:06.030 ⇒ 00:02:10.430 Greg Stoutenburg: So, one of the other things to know is that…
16 00:02:10.740 ⇒ 00:02:20.239 Greg Stoutenburg: They care about, sorry, for a vet to get to the point where they can actually issue certificates, they need to submit license information.
17 00:02:20.240 ⇒ 00:02:20.790 Advait Nandakumar Menon: Yes.
18 00:02:21.280 ⇒ 00:02:27.839 Greg Stoutenburg: And that license information has to be approved. So, it gets reviewed, it gets validated by an external source. Okay.
19 00:02:28.150 ⇒ 00:02:46.610 Greg Stoutenburg: So, as I think about this from, like, my background really is… well, first it’s being a philosophy professor, but then second, it’s about, it’s about SaaS and premium. We want to have a nice, quick time to value, so something that’s gonna be, you know, an impediment there is getting that review done in the back end.
20 00:02:47.340 ⇒ 00:02:48.070 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey.
21 00:02:48.070 ⇒ 00:02:48.540 Kat Gillis: Okay, okay.
22 00:02:48.540 ⇒ 00:02:49.650 Greg Stoutenburg: Happy Friday!
23 00:02:49.950 ⇒ 00:02:51.339 Kat Gillis: Happy Friday!
24 00:02:51.340 ⇒ 00:02:59.269 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, I’m sure you thought that, you would sail off into the weekend, but I put a meeting on the calendar for the end of the day.
25 00:02:59.660 ⇒ 00:03:03.410 Kat Gillis: That’s exactly what I thought, Greg. I was like, oh, he’s catching me.
26 00:03:04.080 ⇒ 00:03:06.059 Kat Gillis: Found me in my calendar.
27 00:03:06.060 ⇒ 00:03:07.070 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah.
28 00:03:07.800 ⇒ 00:03:12.879 Greg Stoutenburg: Sorry about that. I figured, you know, hey, you’re on Central Time, so.
29 00:03:12.880 ⇒ 00:03:18.010 Kat Gillis: Yes, yeah. Actually, Cheater, I’m on Mountain Time, so I…
30 00:03:18.010 ⇒ 00:03:18.750 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, really?
31 00:03:18.750 ⇒ 00:03:22.629 Kat Gillis: So, yeah, I am even… even earlier, so it’s all good.
32 00:03:22.840 ⇒ 00:03:26.900 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s right, we talked about this. When I looked at Ames, I started thinking Central.
33 00:03:26.900 ⇒ 00:03:30.029 Kat Gillis: Yeah, yeah, most of the company is in Iowa on Ames.
34 00:03:30.030 ⇒ 00:03:31.890 Greg Stoutenburg: And you are not, you’re in Idaho.
35 00:03:32.260 ⇒ 00:03:33.170 Kat Gillis: Yes.
36 00:03:33.330 ⇒ 00:03:33.740 Greg Stoutenburg: And.
37 00:03:34.420 ⇒ 00:03:38.819 Greg Stoutenburg: who should feel least allowed to make that confusion, since I’ve lived in both places.
38 00:03:39.590 ⇒ 00:03:40.570 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s funny.
39 00:03:41.480 ⇒ 00:03:59.600 Greg Stoutenburg: Well, great! Glad to reconnect and go over the work that we’ve been able to do so far, and, and sort of, you know, have this working session on the, on the analytics setup that we want to do for Global VetLink. Before we dive in, I wanted to introduce Advait, who’s joined our team.
40 00:04:00.210 ⇒ 00:04:00.930 Kat Gillis: Awesome.
41 00:04:01.120 ⇒ 00:04:10.399 Advait Nandakumar Menon: Yeah, Kat. Yeah, I’m Advait. I’m here to help with the product analytics and help optimize the workflow processes that you guys are working on.
42 00:04:11.050 ⇒ 00:04:12.880 Kat Gillis: Great, it’s great to meet you.
43 00:04:13.460 ⇒ 00:04:22.620 Kat Gillis: Full disclosure to both of you, I did not watch your walkthrough yet, Greg, so I figure, ideally we’ll cover that on this call.
44 00:04:22.620 ⇒ 00:04:25.449 Greg Stoutenburg: That sounds good. Well, now it’s just gonna take us an extra hour.
45 00:04:26.620 ⇒ 00:04:30.330 Greg Stoutenburg: No one’s going out tonight. Okay, no, just kidding.
46 00:04:30.760 ⇒ 00:04:45.020 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, basically, that video was just a very brief walkthrough to show, here’s what your onboarding flow looks like to me, and just… and just discuss it. So, yeah, okay, so we can just dive right in. So,
47 00:04:45.330 ⇒ 00:05:03.929 Greg Stoutenburg: the… the thing that I want to review today is I’ve mapped out the workflows that have been available to me, and I’ve got what I think is a good, you know, I would say… I would say a rough first pass, but it’s not… it’s not that rough. It’s a relatively smooth first pass of, of what looks like core workflows.
48 00:05:03.930 ⇒ 00:05:18.919 Greg Stoutenburg: in the platform, and I’ll have some questions on them. Where there are… where there’s an appearance of complexity in the product is where you click the create button, and there are lots and lots of different certificates that have been created, or can be created.
49 00:05:19.540 ⇒ 00:05:35.980 Greg Stoutenburg: as far as getting that activation moment sorted out, and getting that vet who signs up to become a paying user, I think actually most of those differences aren’t going to be very important, and the ones that do exist can be captured by event types, rather than full-on events.
50 00:05:36.280 ⇒ 00:05:46.619 Greg Stoutenburg: So as I look at your… too far ahead, but this is just sort of, like, my summary paragraph. As I look at your Pendo implementation, when I look at the features list and the track events list.
51 00:05:46.620 ⇒ 00:05:52.910 Greg Stoutenburg: There are a lot of things that are treated as though they’re completely distinct paths, where it’s not really a distinct path.
52 00:05:52.910 ⇒ 00:06:11.280 Greg Stoutenburg: It’s a user who performs a specific action, but depending on how you categorize that action, it’s a, you know, it’s a CBI versus, like, an EEVI. And, so we can say, like, began certificate creation, and then go, you know, what’s the certificate type?
53 00:06:11.310 ⇒ 00:06:33.829 Greg Stoutenburg: The reason why that’s important is when we get to the point where we’re building those dashboards that show activation, we can just say, began certificate creation, and then next is, like, submitted animal information, submitted, you know, location information, for example, and we can look at that broad view of how users are moving through the platform.
54 00:06:34.180 ⇒ 00:06:53.200 Greg Stoutenburg: And then when we want to drill down, we can look at those types at a lower level. And viewed this way, I think it’s going to make your analytics implementation a lot more lightweight, and just easier to understand, and then easier to experiment with, and make whatever product changes you want to make, or measure what you want to make.
55 00:06:53.200 ⇒ 00:06:53.900 Kat Gillis: Yep.
56 00:06:54.580 ⇒ 00:06:55.790 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, okay.
57 00:06:55.790 ⇒ 00:06:57.989 Kat Gillis: I love that. I think that makes a ton of sense.
58 00:06:57.990 ⇒ 00:07:10.730 Greg Stoutenburg: Great, great. Yeah, yeah, so I’ll show you this, I’ll show you this board that I put together. The board is just a workspace, and I’ll share it with you. It’s just a workspace. I’ll show you what we’ve mapped out, and then some places where I have some questions.
59 00:07:10.730 ⇒ 00:07:30.360 Greg Stoutenburg: And I really think that after today’s call, we can, we can, as in, like, you know, the Brainforge team, put together a… what we call an event tracking document. I understand Pendo uses slightly different vocabulary of features and track events, but we’ll put together, like, all of the exact things that we want to track.
60 00:07:30.360 ⇒ 00:07:41.260 Greg Stoutenburg: And then we’ll sort of match that up with Pendo vocabulary, and then the final step will be trimming Pendo. And what we’ll find that’s in Pendo is that
61 00:07:41.540 ⇒ 00:07:46.319 Greg Stoutenburg: Probably, for the most part. Oh, we’re breaking up. Okay, I’ll give you a sec.
62 00:08:01.600 ⇒ 00:08:08.609 Kat Gillis: I think I’m back. The last thing I heard, sadly, was a Brainforge workspace.
63 00:08:09.000 ⇒ 00:08:25.360 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. So, after we go through the workflows that I’ll show you in just a moment, the next step will be for the Brainforge team to go, alright, we’re going to turn this into an event tracking plan, as in, what are all of the things a user could perform
64 00:08:25.360 ⇒ 00:08:30.190 Greg Stoutenburg: In the application that are relevant to, like, the core workflows we’re looking at.
65 00:08:30.340 ⇒ 00:08:30.730 Kat Gillis: Yep.
66 00:08:30.730 ⇒ 00:08:31.880 Greg Stoutenburg: And then…
67 00:08:32.049 ⇒ 00:08:41.950 Greg Stoutenburg: I know Pendo uses the, sort of, different concepts of tracked events and also features, where features really is… a feature is just a hub for a bunch of auto-tracked events.
68 00:08:41.950 ⇒ 00:08:58.349 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll map out those things that are relevant to the core workflows we’re gonna look at, and then we’ll put that into Pendo vocabulary, we’ll trim the Pendo list of events and features, and then, we’ll have that implementation guide just fully complete and ready to go.
69 00:08:58.680 ⇒ 00:08:59.270 Kat Gillis: Okay.
70 00:08:59.430 ⇒ 00:09:00.909 Greg Stoutenburg: Does that sound like a good plan? Okay.
71 00:09:00.910 ⇒ 00:09:01.550 Kat Gillis: Yep.
72 00:09:01.550 ⇒ 00:09:07.999 Greg Stoutenburg: All right, and then… and then as well, providing a roadmap for those HubSpot automations that you want to put together.
73 00:09:08.740 ⇒ 00:09:17.759 Greg Stoutenburg: So, why don’t I start… I really should have done this already, I don’t know why I didn’t do this already. Let’s go to adding your email.
74 00:09:32.380 ⇒ 00:09:39.850 Greg Stoutenburg: Right, and I’ve… I’ve just sent you a link to… the FigJam workspace.
75 00:09:40.200 ⇒ 00:09:42.860 Greg Stoutenburg: And I’ll share my screen now, and we can walk through it.
76 00:09:43.520 ⇒ 00:09:44.200 Kat Gillis: Okay.
77 00:09:44.870 ⇒ 00:09:50.990 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, do y’all see this? Yeah, there’s my big screen. Okay, this is gonna look big,
78 00:09:51.390 ⇒ 00:10:07.650 Greg Stoutenburg: But, sort of, don’t worry. So this is… this is the board I use. I use a… this is a sort of template of a board I use to map out events that are in workflows that are in products. So this sort of states some goals, which is to map out user journeys.
79 00:10:07.650 ⇒ 00:10:16.910 Greg Stoutenburg: identify events, and then plan implementation and next steps and action items. For us, these bottom two are out of scope right now, we’re just looking at the top two.
80 00:10:16.910 ⇒ 00:10:33.669 Greg Stoutenburg: mapping out those user journeys. And then, these are resources, you know, since we’re using, Pendo and not Amplitude, sort of don’t worry about this, but this still provides a really good guide on, like, event tracking and product analytics in case you feel like some light reading on a Friday afternoon after this call.
81 00:10:34.010 ⇒ 00:10:34.470 Kat Gillis: Okay.
82 00:10:34.730 ⇒ 00:10:47.250 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay. So, it looks to me, and, you know, jump in or correct or add, wherever you see fit, that there are basically four milestones to becoming a customer of Global VetLink.
83 00:10:47.750 ⇒ 00:10:49.009 Greg Stoutenburg: They sign up.
84 00:10:49.750 ⇒ 00:10:51.869 Greg Stoutenburg: They submit their license information.
85 00:10:52.490 ⇒ 00:10:56.439 Greg Stoutenburg: They complete a certificate, They pay for the certificate.
86 00:10:57.230 ⇒ 00:10:57.820 Kat Gillis: Yep.
87 00:10:58.540 ⇒ 00:10:59.650 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great.
88 00:10:59.650 ⇒ 00:11:00.600 Kat Gillis: Correct, yep.
89 00:11:00.600 ⇒ 00:11:19.220 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great. So then, the way for us to think about that is, when we look at things like funnels from sign-up, or from performing some action to some terminal state that we want them to get to, what we’re ultimately trying to get them to are these relevant states, right? So, this would be…
90 00:11:19.220 ⇒ 00:11:23.159 Greg Stoutenburg: the ideal final state of visiting the website.
91 00:11:23.420 ⇒ 00:11:35.770 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep. This would be the ideal state of beginning a, like, beginning any… really any of the creation flows. They have to get here, and it’s a… it’s a critical step.
92 00:11:35.870 ⇒ 00:11:38.070 Greg Stoutenburg: In the process.
93 00:11:39.670 ⇒ 00:11:46.420 Greg Stoutenburg: They complete a certificate, so they actually complete the certificate workflow, and then the last thing that they have to do is, you know, pay for it.
94 00:11:46.560 ⇒ 00:11:47.789 Greg Stoutenburg: Wait, do I look sad?
95 00:11:48.600 ⇒ 00:11:55.170 Kat Gillis: So, one… question. It seems like the internal team, and I can
96 00:11:55.290 ⇒ 00:12:02.409 Kat Gillis: dig on this more internally. It is very focused on people also adding their credit card information.
97 00:12:02.590 ⇒ 00:12:04.220 Kat Gillis: Which…
98 00:12:04.220 ⇒ 00:12:04.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Yes.
99 00:12:04.620 ⇒ 00:12:11.420 Kat Gillis: like, yeah, would be required in order to actually complete a certificate, but I see as not a core milestone.
100 00:12:11.420 ⇒ 00:12:19.210 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that makes sense to me. The reason why I didn’t include it here is because it’s just… it’s just sort of…
101 00:12:20.160 ⇒ 00:12:34.389 Greg Stoutenburg: one step before this. So, ultimately, we want to get them to here. A prerequisite is certainly that they submit their credit card information, and that the credit card is approved, right? That’s just, like, part of the payment workflow.
102 00:12:34.390 ⇒ 00:12:38.910 Kat Gillis: I think the way the platform is built is that they cannot even complete a certificate.
103 00:12:40.460 ⇒ 00:12:50.999 Kat Gillis: Until… or were you able… well, I guess you’re not an accredited vet. Maybe I need to look at this, but I think our platform prevents them from even creating a certificate without a credit card.
104 00:12:51.880 ⇒ 00:13:08.679 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, it looked like I was able to get a certificate into pending in my own user role. This is actually something I had a question about, because I was never able to get to a payment screen, so one of my questions was, I was unable to map out the payment workflow, and so I wanted to ask…
105 00:13:08.680 ⇒ 00:13:10.000 Kat Gillis: Let me ask… yep.
106 00:13:10.000 ⇒ 00:13:23.989 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, and so I thought either we could just do it together, or someone could change my role, or, yeah, so either way would be fine with me. But yeah, I never got to a payment screen. I was able to…
107 00:13:23.990 ⇒ 00:13:30.690 Greg Stoutenburg: I was able to get as far as creating a few draft certificates, so…
108 00:13:30.690 ⇒ 00:13:31.280 Kat Gillis: Okay.
109 00:13:31.280 ⇒ 00:13:31.640 Greg Stoutenburg: So here.
110 00:13:31.640 ⇒ 00:13:38.539 Kat Gillis: I just asked, I’ll probably hear back before this call is over, so… But yeah, if you were able to create those, then I guess…
111 00:13:38.830 ⇒ 00:13:39.749 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, these.
112 00:13:39.750 ⇒ 00:13:41.349 Kat Gillis: And it’s just a… yeah, okay.
113 00:13:41.350 ⇒ 00:13:51.620 Greg Stoutenburg: But wait, I didn’t do this 2 hours ago, I did this the other day. I created Mr. Ed for you, I don’t know, nobody had Mr. Ed in there. That should be a classic, but…
114 00:13:51.870 ⇒ 00:13:52.460 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, good.
115 00:13:52.460 ⇒ 00:13:59.599 Kat Gillis: Confirmed… yeah, our support team just confirmed you can, and you did. So your point was.
116 00:13:59.710 ⇒ 00:14:09.549 Kat Gillis: We basically would see if people are completing a CERT, but not paying… Then we can assume that…
117 00:14:09.970 ⇒ 00:14:12.669 Kat Gillis: That’s because we don’t have credit card information.
118 00:14:13.080 ⇒ 00:14:19.000 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, okay. So somewhere in here, a user has to actually enter their card information before they can complete the cert.
119 00:14:19.690 ⇒ 00:14:28.979 Kat Gillis: Yes, in order to actually sign… I mean, this is the weird thing, you cannot sign it unless you are an accredited vet and have your license uploaded.
120 00:14:28.980 ⇒ 00:14:29.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
121 00:14:29.550 ⇒ 00:14:31.939 Kat Gillis: So I am not sure…
122 00:14:32.500 ⇒ 00:14:39.730 Kat Gillis: it looks like you can create a draft, which is what you did, but I’m not sure that you can create and complete the certificate.
123 00:14:40.140 ⇒ 00:14:42.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, so…
124 00:14:42.180 ⇒ 00:14:45.269 Kat Gillis: credit card. So it would be… we would want to know
125 00:14:45.560 ⇒ 00:14:49.940 Kat Gillis: Are we missing people’s accreditation, or are we missing their credit card?
126 00:14:49.940 ⇒ 00:14:54.639 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, it sounds like… it sounds like either is possible then, right? So the whole payment workflow
127 00:14:54.740 ⇒ 00:15:07.480 Greg Stoutenburg: I mean, besides all the other stuff involved in just creating the cert, is the license is validated, and they’ve, entered payment information. Then they can create the cert.
128 00:15:07.740 ⇒ 00:15:08.420 Kat Gillis: Yep.
129 00:15:08.420 ⇒ 00:15:11.409 Greg Stoutenburg: Right, okay. So, here…
130 00:15:12.600 ⇒ 00:15:22.430 Greg Stoutenburg: just… just zooming out one second. So, I use this… this teal-colored one. This is just sort of like a row header. So, the customer milestones are… are these. Actually, I’ll…
131 00:15:22.890 ⇒ 00:15:24.030 Greg Stoutenburg: Move that over.
132 00:15:24.500 ⇒ 00:15:25.190 Kat Gillis: Yep.
133 00:15:27.240 ⇒ 00:15:40.779 Greg Stoutenburg: Smith’s license, Smith’s license information, and it is verified. Okay. Okay, they can complete a certificate. Okay, those are the big steps. So, like, no matter what they’re doing in Global VetLink, these are the big steps, and that’s what makes them milestones.
134 00:15:40.780 ⇒ 00:15:46.509 Kat Gillis: A very nitpicky caveat, they aren’t actually paying, they have to add their…
135 00:15:46.880 ⇒ 00:15:56.319 Kat Gillis: Credit card information, and then we bill their credit card, month… in the month after they submit their certificate.
136 00:15:57.110 ⇒ 00:15:57.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
137 00:15:58.310 ⇒ 00:15:59.870 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s helpful for me.
138 00:16:00.310 ⇒ 00:16:05.760 Kat Gillis: Okay, hold on, but now the product team, they can create drafts and sign certificates without a credit card.
139 00:16:06.250 ⇒ 00:16:08.119 Kat Gillis: So when do we?
140 00:16:10.850 ⇒ 00:16:14.200 Kat Gillis: Sorry, this is what happens when I don’t know the system myself.
141 00:16:14.200 ⇒ 00:16:15.149 Greg Stoutenburg: Nope, well, this is good.
142 00:16:15.150 ⇒ 00:16:15.500 Kat Gillis: I am.
143 00:16:15.500 ⇒ 00:16:19.910 Greg Stoutenburg: Well, and this is why we have to do this, otherwise I could just, you know, I could have sent you an Excel doc
144 00:16:20.070 ⇒ 00:16:21.949 Greg Stoutenburg: So this is Greg.
145 00:16:25.320 ⇒ 00:16:33.580 Greg Stoutenburg: let me… let my own horse in here. Come here, buddy. Here. We’ve got… I think… I think we have animal lovers over here. Come here, buddy. This is Archimedes. Come here, bud.
146 00:16:36.680 ⇒ 00:16:41.720 Greg Stoutenburg: His stomach was not feeling so well last night. Come here, buddy. Wanna say hi? This is Arca. Oh.
147 00:16:41.720 ⇒ 00:16:44.079 Kat Gillis: Oh my gosh, she is enormous.
148 00:16:44.080 ⇒ 00:16:46.419 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, he’s about 120 pounds.
149 00:16:46.800 ⇒ 00:16:47.540 Kat Gillis: Whoa.
150 00:16:47.540 ⇒ 00:16:49.020 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve had him standing up.
151 00:16:51.610 ⇒ 00:16:59.649 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, good boy, good boy. Anytime he hears me talking on a meeting, he needs to walk up to the door and be let out. So, that’s why.
152 00:17:00.200 ⇒ 00:17:01.490 Greg Stoutenburg: You’ll see him on every call.
153 00:17:02.630 ⇒ 00:17:03.280 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, bye.
154 00:17:03.280 ⇒ 00:17:05.990 Kat Gillis: Okay, so we may need to…
155 00:17:06.650 ⇒ 00:17:11.240 Kat Gillis: change the order of some of these, but I think I get the gist of what we’re…
156 00:17:11.359 ⇒ 00:17:12.440 Kat Gillis: going for.
157 00:17:13.250 ⇒ 00:17:23.949 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great. All right, so they sign up, submit license info, and yeah, if you can just get back to me on which of those goes where. Oh, hello, great. That would be great.
158 00:17:24.119 ⇒ 00:17:35.780 Greg Stoutenburg: And then the next heading is user workflows. For the purpose of this brief sprint, I used these three. So, Certificate Creation, which is sort of the main one.
159 00:17:35.890 ⇒ 00:17:40.319 Greg Stoutenburg: Payment, which is what we’re talking about. And then, vet management.
160 00:17:40.650 ⇒ 00:17:47.429 Greg Stoutenburg: and I use vet management as sort of the category for what would someone do if they are
161 00:17:47.430 ⇒ 00:18:05.119 Greg Stoutenburg: if they’re in a role where they’re managing certificates and assignments of certificates and responsibilities, like, from within a clinic. So those are… those are tasks that a vet might do, they’re tasks that maybe, like, an office manager at a vet clinic might do. And so for those, I just use SearchComplete.
162 00:18:05.140 ⇒ 00:18:08.909 Greg Stoutenburg: As in, like, they type stuff in the search bar and hit enter.
163 00:18:09.100 ⇒ 00:18:12.130 Greg Stoutenburg: Search results selected, and then assigned a vet.
164 00:18:12.770 ⇒ 00:18:13.400 Kat Gillis: Okay.
165 00:18:13.620 ⇒ 00:18:20.439 Kat Gillis: I will follow up internally, if… That is,
166 00:18:21.170 ⇒ 00:18:30.129 Kat Gillis: you know, one, kind of the third most important… the other, the first two I agree with, but, yeah, I’ll follow up to make sure that’s one we want to focus on.
167 00:18:30.130 ⇒ 00:18:34.609 Greg Stoutenburg: Great. And then payment, yeah, we’re discussing that now. Alright, so certificate creation.
168 00:18:35.560 ⇒ 00:18:44.280 Greg Stoutenburg: They log in, they start a workflow. That’s… they click the create button. Here, we can…
169 00:18:44.410 ⇒ 00:18:47.419 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll… we’ll add the event type.
170 00:18:47.550 ⇒ 00:18:56.510 Greg Stoutenburg: what the… I’d put as an example, just, you know, CVI. But we could list all the different types of certificates that are begun, and that would include
171 00:18:57.010 ⇒ 00:18:59.690 Greg Stoutenburg: like, international health certificate, VFD.
172 00:18:59.690 ⇒ 00:19:00.080 Kat Gillis: Nope.
173 00:19:00.080 ⇒ 00:19:05.629 Greg Stoutenburg: get our script. Okay. I think we can categorize all of those in some properties here.
174 00:19:05.740 ⇒ 00:19:11.200 Greg Stoutenburg: And then, as I was looking at all the different certificates, there were some…
175 00:19:11.470 ⇒ 00:19:18.089 Greg Stoutenburg: actions that looked like they were common to all of them. And that would be… Ownership of the animal.
176 00:19:18.680 ⇒ 00:19:23.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Movement of the animal, And then, well, the animal, information about the animal.
177 00:19:23.620 ⇒ 00:19:24.250 Kat Gillis: Joe.
178 00:19:25.110 ⇒ 00:19:26.719 Greg Stoutenburg: Nope, typo.
179 00:19:28.940 ⇒ 00:19:31.580 Greg Stoutenburg: So, I think for those,
180 00:19:32.110 ⇒ 00:19:50.749 Greg Stoutenburg: you know, again, zooming out a little bit, the real goal is when we think to what your reporting is going to look like and what your automations to HubSpot are going to look like, we want to think through, like, like, what that final state is. So what we really want to know is if someone begins a workflow for, for example, CVI,
181 00:19:50.940 ⇒ 00:19:52.959 Greg Stoutenburg: And they don’t make it through.
182 00:19:53.120 ⇒ 00:19:58.189 Greg Stoutenburg: Where did they stop? Did they get as far as movement submitted but not to animals submitted?
183 00:19:58.490 ⇒ 00:20:08.140 Greg Stoutenburg: And the workflow being in this shape will help us answer that kind of question, because we know what the final state is. It’s, you know, it’s these five events in a row.
184 00:20:08.140 ⇒ 00:20:08.750 Kat Gillis: Yep.
185 00:20:09.140 ⇒ 00:20:12.689 Kat Gillis: So, interestingly, yeah, this is interesting because…
186 00:20:13.410 ⇒ 00:20:26.529 Kat Gillis: and I know you set out with the project for me to figure out what is the problem that our users have that we want to solve for. I don’t actually know if end-to-end cert creation is
187 00:20:26.810 ⇒ 00:20:33.490 Kat Gillis: a problem, in the way that you’ve mapped out here. Like, I’m not sure if people are dropping off
188 00:20:33.840 ⇒ 00:20:39.979 Kat Gillis: at a certain point, obviously we would see that with this, but, so I will ask around internally as well.
189 00:20:41.320 ⇒ 00:20:44.319 Kat Gillis: Yeah, it doesn’t hurt, obviously, to track it. Yeah, yeah.
190 00:20:44.320 ⇒ 00:20:49.739 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right, because ultimately we’re trying to get
191 00:20:50.020 ⇒ 00:20:55.080 Greg Stoutenburg: We’re trying to get to the point of, you know, of paying to those customer milestones that are outlined above.
192 00:20:57.140 ⇒ 00:21:07.619 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so then, animal submitted, smart engine… I just put a question mark here because it looks like this is, on whatever workflow you run, it looks like this is just an automatic review step. Am I correct about that?
193 00:21:09.000 ⇒ 00:21:15.780 Kat Gillis: Sort of. It’s our, like, It basically checks the…
194 00:21:15.950 ⇒ 00:21:27.609 Kat Gillis: form against, yeah, state legislation, and tells you if the state is likely to accept it as written or not.
195 00:21:28.030 ⇒ 00:21:29.989 Kat Gillis: So yeah, it’s a review step.
196 00:21:32.950 ⇒ 00:21:38.169 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ll just say, and it’s quality check.
197 00:21:38.440 ⇒ 00:21:39.020 Kat Gillis: Yep.
198 00:21:40.370 ⇒ 00:21:41.070 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
199 00:21:41.410 ⇒ 00:21:50.279 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, that’s helpful. Because sometimes when I was filling out the form, I saw it come up, and others, it’s like I couldn’t open it, and I was like, alright, I don’t really know, I might be running up into.
200 00:21:50.280 ⇒ 00:21:50.870 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
201 00:21:50.870 ⇒ 00:21:52.640 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve got a limit in the demo environment.
202 00:21:52.870 ⇒ 00:21:58.659 Kat Gillis: This one is interesting because it is our core value prop. It’s that we, like.
203 00:21:58.910 ⇒ 00:22:10.789 Kat Gillis: have every… all 50 states’ laws on hand, and basically check these certs for you, and the way you turn it on and off, there’s a little toggle at the top of the certificate.
204 00:22:10.890 ⇒ 00:22:13.590 Kat Gillis: And… we…
205 00:22:14.420 ⇒ 00:22:28.760 Kat Gillis: we actually, today, I don’t think have… yeah, exactly. I don’t think that there’s a clean way to see whether a cert has been submitted with Smart Engine on or off, which has been a pain point. And then we also can’t see if people are turning it off because
206 00:22:29.090 ⇒ 00:22:35.330 Kat Gillis: the rules are annoying them, or something. Both of which would be useful to know.
207 00:22:35.490 ⇒ 00:22:42.120 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so if they turn search engine off, will it let them submit the certificate without doing…
208 00:22:42.120 ⇒ 00:22:52.599 Kat Gillis: Correct, yeah, you can just submit it, even, yep, and then the state might reject it, and then you’ve paid for it, and you’re mad at us.
209 00:22:52.600 ⇒ 00:22:54.839 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s good to know. I’ll add that as a note.
210 00:22:55.240 ⇒ 00:23:02.470 Kat Gillis: I did also get clarity on the payment information, so apparently, They… they can submit?
211 00:23:02.610 ⇒ 00:23:20.499 Kat Gillis: a final certificate without credit card information on file. We then invoice them at the end of the month. If they created 3 certs, we invoice them for 3 certs, and they can then add credit card information. Apparently, delinquent billing has not been a huge issue, and so
212 00:23:20.500 ⇒ 00:23:28.880 Kat Gillis: We just remind people a bajillion times until they pay for their certificates. So that’s maybe more similar to your initial.
213 00:23:28.880 ⇒ 00:23:29.569 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, yeah.
214 00:23:29.570 ⇒ 00:23:35.310 Kat Gillis: flow, which was, we need their license information, they complete a cert, they pay.
215 00:23:35.490 ⇒ 00:23:35.920 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.
216 00:23:35.920 ⇒ 00:23:38.250 Kat Gillis: Which was the very original version you had.
217 00:23:38.250 ⇒ 00:23:39.540 Greg Stoutenburg: back, okay.
218 00:23:39.670 ⇒ 00:23:43.949 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool. Vet pays. Now, that is the milestone. Not everyone hits every milestone.
219 00:23:43.950 ⇒ 00:23:44.380 Kat Gillis: Not just…
220 00:23:44.380 ⇒ 00:23:48.830 Greg Stoutenburg: So, you know, some are gonna get in there and, you know, and ultimately not do it. Yeah, thank you.
221 00:23:48.830 ⇒ 00:23:49.410 Kat Gillis: Yep.
222 00:23:49.410 ⇒ 00:23:53.409 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool. Alright. And then permit is submitted.
223 00:23:54.380 ⇒ 00:23:56.150 Greg Stoutenburg: Preview and sign clicked.
224 00:23:56.630 ⇒ 00:23:59.959 Greg Stoutenburg: And then, it looks like here you can save your information.
225 00:24:00.510 ⇒ 00:24:01.340 Greg Stoutenburg: It was not.
226 00:24:01.340 ⇒ 00:24:01.730 Kat Gillis: -Oh.
227 00:24:01.730 ⇒ 00:24:10.109 Greg Stoutenburg: to me if doing preview and sign automatically saves your information, and that’s… that should be the final step, or if you need to do this after.
228 00:24:10.530 ⇒ 00:24:13.759 Kat Gillis: Okay, I’ll ask our product team, because I also don’t know…
229 00:24:14.340 ⇒ 00:24:20.300 Kat Gillis: How then the license is… or the cert is submitted to the state, because we do that, and…
230 00:24:20.300 ⇒ 00:24:20.860 Greg Stoutenburg: Great.
231 00:24:21.190 ⇒ 00:24:26.819 Kat Gillis: how we get the cert back from the state, so I can ask that.
232 00:24:26.820 ⇒ 00:24:34.229 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, okay, yeah, that sounds good. As far as user actions, they would terminate either here or here.
233 00:24:34.510 ⇒ 00:24:39.130 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Now, you know, they have to type in license information.
234 00:24:39.410 ⇒ 00:24:45.239 Greg Stoutenburg: But then, yeah, so… and then, of course, this is on the back end. They don’t… they don’t.
235 00:24:45.240 ⇒ 00:24:45.700 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
236 00:24:45.700 ⇒ 00:24:49.819 Greg Stoutenburg: And you have a process for that. So…
237 00:24:50.200 ⇒ 00:25:00.829 Greg Stoutenburg: One question I have, and the reason why this was here, is, as far as certificate creation, do we thought of that as completed when one of these is completed?
238 00:25:01.050 ⇒ 00:25:03.879 Greg Stoutenburg: Or is it that they have to submit their license?
239 00:25:05.050 ⇒ 00:25:09.780 Kat Gillis: So…
240 00:25:10.120 ⇒ 00:25:16.730 Kat Gillis: So the license, I thought, gets submitted actually in settings or something, and not as part of the cert.
241 00:25:16.960 ⇒ 00:25:17.610 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.
242 00:25:17.960 ⇒ 00:25:18.630 Kat Gillis: Yeah.
243 00:25:18.630 ⇒ 00:25:22.300 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, the reason I’m asking is because I could not find that workflow.
244 00:25:22.660 ⇒ 00:25:23.210 Kat Gillis: Yes.
245 00:25:23.210 ⇒ 00:25:24.380 Greg Stoutenburg: user type.
246 00:25:24.380 ⇒ 00:25:27.520 Kat Gillis: Yeah, so that, yeah, that, I think, is if you’re a vet.
247 00:25:27.640 ⇒ 00:25:34.739 Kat Gillis: In settings, you would upload your license, and then have that. So that might be…
248 00:25:35.100 ⇒ 00:25:43.580 Kat Gillis: an additional workflow, I guess, to track. On the certs, we consider them complete once they are Signed.
249 00:25:43.870 ⇒ 00:25:45.080 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, so here.
250 00:25:45.470 ⇒ 00:25:54.999 Kat Gillis: yes. Now, you were hitting preview, and it created a draft, right?
251 00:25:56.440 ⇒ 00:26:00.459 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, and I think that’s probably just because of my user type.
252 00:26:01.430 ⇒ 00:26:04.110 Kat Gillis: Yep, okay, yeah, so.
253 00:26:05.370 ⇒ 00:26:05.960 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m gonna shake.
254 00:26:05.960 ⇒ 00:26:12.399 Kat Gillis: Creating a draft… yeah, preview on just creating a draft is one thing, but we consider it submitted once it’s signed.
255 00:26:12.810 ⇒ 00:26:13.540 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
256 00:26:14.000 ⇒ 00:26:14.860 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
257 00:26:15.790 ⇒ 00:26:29.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Let’s considered once it’s signed. So, preview and signed, okay, and then that would be signed, and then completed. So, this is resolved, and this is not a step in the workflow. License submitted and validated.
258 00:26:29.620 ⇒ 00:26:40.450 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m gonna move those to a new workflow. So we’ve got a payment workflow, which I now understand is probably not that important. It’s just, you know, they enter the details, or for that matter, they just…
259 00:26:40.500 ⇒ 00:26:50.570 Greg Stoutenburg: you already have their information, so you, you know, you bill them. Yeah. And so I’ll actually just move this to a different spot for now.
260 00:26:51.070 ⇒ 00:26:59.230 Greg Stoutenburg: And we’ll… we’ll talk about the payment stuff separately. We can go here, copy this, Boom.
261 00:26:59.920 ⇒ 00:27:04.360 Greg Stoutenburg: And we’ll say this is the, licensure…
262 00:27:04.770 ⇒ 00:27:10.259 Greg Stoutenburg: workflow. Did I… did I write it? Did I misspell… license… license E-N?
263 00:27:11.110 ⇒ 00:27:14.819 Greg Stoutenburg: C… He… no, that’s even worse.
264 00:27:15.500 ⇒ 00:27:23.070 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, no, it’s… it thinks… it’s suggesting resilience. My spelling is so off, it’s suggesting a word that starts with a different letter.
265 00:27:23.350 ⇒ 00:27:25.100 Kat Gillis: I think… oh yeah, okay, there it.
266 00:27:25.100 ⇒ 00:27:26.749 Greg Stoutenburg: Isn’t that right? I thought that was right.
267 00:27:27.090 ⇒ 00:27:28.790 Kat Gillis: That’s how I would have spelled it.
268 00:27:30.810 ⇒ 00:27:34.410 Kat Gillis: You know, Figma may just be using some outdated.
269 00:27:36.230 ⇒ 00:27:36.920 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
270 00:27:36.920 ⇒ 00:27:38.859 Kat Gillis: That is… that is the right way to spell it.
271 00:27:38.860 ⇒ 00:27:40.649 Greg Stoutenburg: We know, we don’t trust the computer.
272 00:27:40.650 ⇒ 00:27:41.550 Kat Gillis: all the time.
273 00:27:41.710 ⇒ 00:27:44.080 Kat Gillis: I won my second grade spelling bee, you know?
274 00:27:44.080 ⇒ 00:27:45.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Really? Nice!
275 00:27:45.520 ⇒ 00:27:51.410 Greg Stoutenburg: Nice! I had, I’ll never forget this for my whole life. I think this was when I was in,
276 00:27:51.680 ⇒ 00:28:02.309 Greg Stoutenburg: 5th grade, you got a reward if you got to, like, 10 100%, spelling tests in a row. I got 6 in a row, and then I got a test with 1 wrong, and then I got the
277 00:28:04.350 ⇒ 00:28:06.910 Greg Stoutenburg: There’s no… there’s no value in that. It’s about the streak.
278 00:28:07.500 ⇒ 00:28:08.230 Kat Gillis: Yep.
279 00:28:08.230 ⇒ 00:28:08.960 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
280 00:28:09.580 ⇒ 00:28:16.619 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright, well… I’m not bitter about that anymore. Alright, so that’s this workflow, that’s all mapped out,
281 00:28:16.980 ⇒ 00:28:29.509 Greg Stoutenburg: license your workflow, license submitted, license validated. If either you could change my permissions so I could look at that, or even just… if you want to just add the events, that would be fine too.
282 00:28:29.560 ⇒ 00:28:37.249 Greg Stoutenburg: I just want to make sure that we do capture that workflow, because we definitely want to have that mapped out. And the reason why we want to have it mapped out is because
283 00:28:37.630 ⇒ 00:28:43.860 Greg Stoutenburg: We think of that as… we think of this part, and this part, and payment.
284 00:28:44.080 ⇒ 00:28:46.389 Greg Stoutenburg: As getting us to here.
285 00:28:47.470 ⇒ 00:28:48.970 Kat Gillis: Hmm, okay.
286 00:28:49.170 ⇒ 00:28:49.900 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
287 00:28:50.450 ⇒ 00:28:51.850 Kat Gillis: Okay, got it.
288 00:28:52.040 ⇒ 00:28:57.010 Greg Stoutenburg: Does that all make sense, how, like, the workflows are intended to, like, relate directly to the customer milestones?
289 00:28:57.010 ⇒ 00:28:57.640 Kat Gillis: does.
290 00:28:57.640 ⇒ 00:29:08.380 Greg Stoutenburg: And it’s giving us a comprehensive view about usage and activation and the user hitting their goals that feed into what the company is sort of trying to provide.
291 00:29:08.900 ⇒ 00:29:12.330 Kat Gillis: Yep, that makes sense. I will…
292 00:29:12.950 ⇒ 00:29:15.439 Kat Gillis: Just make myself a note.
293 00:29:15.640 ⇒ 00:29:21.320 Kat Gillis: To figure out those three workflows, and to also confirm the milestones.
294 00:29:23.800 ⇒ 00:29:24.550 Kat Gillis: Okay.
295 00:29:24.570 ⇒ 00:29:27.789 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great. And then,
296 00:29:28.100 ⇒ 00:29:30.889 Greg Stoutenburg: If the vet management portion isn’t… isn’t…
297 00:29:30.990 ⇒ 00:29:49.419 Greg Stoutenburg: we don’t… if we don’t consider that high priority right now, we can just cut it and just focus on certificate creation, licensure, and I think it would be worth looking at payment details being submitted. I understand if the team is saying that, you know, failure to pay has not been a common issue.
298 00:29:49.470 ⇒ 00:29:53.560 Greg Stoutenburg: So… I still think it’s worth looking at.
299 00:29:53.910 ⇒ 00:30:06.739 Greg Stoutenburg: But I also understand that sometimes the engineering work to get payments mandatory can be challenging. I’ve had that in previous roles, where the company was like, don’t even bother, you know, putting up these paywalls because it’s too much work.
300 00:30:07.230 ⇒ 00:30:09.890 Greg Stoutenburg: So, I would understand that point of view as well.
301 00:30:10.950 ⇒ 00:30:11.670 Kat Gillis: Okay.
302 00:30:11.670 ⇒ 00:30:13.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay. Oh yeah, and then…
303 00:30:14.490 ⇒ 00:30:21.230 Greg Stoutenburg: We can move that. Okay. Couple of questions I have, and I… do you have a hard stop right now, or can we go, like, another…
304 00:30:21.600 ⇒ 00:30:23.089 Greg Stoutenburg: Less than 10 minutes.
305 00:30:23.550 ⇒ 00:30:27.450 Kat Gillis: Oh, I have, like, 2 minutes, but I do have another meeting, yeah.
306 00:30:27.600 ⇒ 00:30:36.150 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, I’ll just review these questions real quick, just to show what I’m asking, and then maybe you can reply async, and we can move on with the next steps.
307 00:30:36.410 ⇒ 00:30:37.190 Kat Gillis: Great.
308 00:30:37.190 ⇒ 00:30:41.720 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, delete. Already did that.
309 00:30:42.380 ⇒ 00:30:46.739 Greg Stoutenburg: For interactions with more, I don’t know if any of these are…
310 00:30:46.970 ⇒ 00:30:55.159 Greg Stoutenburg: very important. I mean, we’ve got, like, finalized for permit number, reverse CVI. I don’t think any of these are critical to any workflow. Does that sound correct to you?
311 00:30:55.420 ⇒ 00:30:59.790 Kat Gillis: Oh, just leave that one open. I’ll… I’ll ask the team.
312 00:30:59.980 ⇒ 00:31:17.620 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, we’ve discussed both of those, you’re gonna follow up about payment. That’s just a note to myself for something you said that’ll be relevant to HubSpot automation. And then, this is another note to myself, it’s just a copy and paste of yours from Slack. So, if you could take a look at those interactions with the More button.
313 00:31:17.620 ⇒ 00:31:24.650 Greg Stoutenburg: And then the payment workflow and the licensure workflow, that would be great, and we can move forward with creating a tracking plan.
314 00:31:25.150 ⇒ 00:31:29.719 Kat Gillis: Okay, great. I’m not sure I’ll get answers from folks today, but…
315 00:31:29.720 ⇒ 00:31:30.040 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s about.
316 00:31:30.040 ⇒ 00:31:31.710 Kat Gillis: For sure on Monday, yeah.
317 00:31:31.710 ⇒ 00:31:36.919 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great. Yeah, okay, awesome. Have a great weekend, Kat. Great to talk. Thanks a lot.
318 00:31:36.920 ⇒ 00:31:37.890 Kat Gillis: Thank you, you too.
319 00:31:37.890 ⇒ 00:31:39.100 Greg Stoutenburg: Take care. Alright, bye.