2026-03-20_brainforge_leads_weekly_retro_ba78af8b

Meeting Title: Brainforge Leads Weekly Retro Date: 2026-03-20 Meeting participants: Brylle Girang, Rico Rejoso, Robert Tseng, Clarence Stone, Uttam Kumaran, Kaela Gallagher

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WEBVTT

1 00:09:31.340 ⇒ 00:09:32.460 Robert Tseng: Hey, guys.

2 00:09:34.270 ⇒ 00:09:35.090 Brylle Girang: Hello?

3 00:09:40.870 ⇒ 00:09:45.320 Robert Tseng: I was just on a call with Tom, he’ll be… he’ll be joining soon, but I…

4 00:09:45.530 ⇒ 00:09:51.330 Robert Tseng: a little behind on what I was hoping to prepare for this call, so I’m gonna mute myself and try to finish this talk.

5 00:15:17.080 ⇒ 00:15:18.409 Clarence Stone: What’s up, Robert?

6 00:15:21.080 ⇒ 00:15:26.980 Robert Tseng: Oh, hey, dude! Sorry, I’m just, like, doing other things as we’re waiting for people to trickle in.

7 00:15:27.360 ⇒ 00:15:28.669 Clarence Stone: Yeah, no worries.

8 00:15:30.600 ⇒ 00:15:35.319 Robert Tseng: I’m put together… I’m putting together a proposal right now.

9 00:15:38.640 ⇒ 00:15:43.320 Robert Tseng: one of our advisors was telling me… I don’t know if you… I don’t know if you’ve done this before, but, like.

10 00:15:44.130 ⇒ 00:16:01.870 Robert Tseng: So, a fixed discovery, and then, like, like, a delayed pricing for, like, the next… they want implementation as well, and I want to get them to commit to both, but I don’t really want to… I don’t want to price, like, by hour, and I just want to… I want them to be, like.

11 00:16:01.970 ⇒ 00:16:07.160 Robert Tseng: Pay the discovery amount, and then, like, We’ll decide on the fix.

12 00:16:07.410 ⇒ 00:16:13.899 Robert Tseng: implementation be later. I’m struggling to write that on this paper, so… yeah.

13 00:16:14.340 ⇒ 00:16:32.800 Clarence Stone: So, so we do that a lot. We call them assessments, and we’ll price them anywhere from, like, 3 to 5 grand to say, hey, we’ll take a look at your problem set, we’ll create a roadmap for you, we’ll give you an opportunity, you know, assessment to say these are the things that you can do best.

14 00:16:32.800 ⇒ 00:16:45.949 Clarence Stone: You can take that back, and, you know, take that executive summary and, you know, get approval, right? And if you end up buying from us, we’ll give you that amount as credit towards the build.

15 00:16:49.830 ⇒ 00:16:50.460 Clarence Stone: Yeah.

16 00:16:50.600 ⇒ 00:16:57.250 Clarence Stone: So if they say no, like, I can’t, you know, get them to agree. Well, you already got your AI roadmap.

17 00:16:57.460 ⇒ 00:17:04.070 Clarence Stone: Right? It’s fine if you want to use that AI roadmap for other things, it’s still valuable because it’s, you know, aligned to your vision.

18 00:17:04.910 ⇒ 00:17:05.550 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

19 00:17:08.700 ⇒ 00:17:09.599 Robert Tseng: Okay

20 00:17:12.069 ⇒ 00:17:16.240 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, I mean, well, sorry, I mean, we’re gonna go down this little rabbit hole a little bit, but I…

21 00:17:16.329 ⇒ 00:17:21.839 Robert Tseng: I like… so, yeah, I pitched them this originally, we got on a follow-up call yesterday.

22 00:17:21.920 ⇒ 00:17:40.080 Robert Tseng: he was fine with the $24,000orwhatever,like,discovery.Hewasjustlike,butIdo{n}^{\prime }twanttopayyour$300 an hour for implementation. So, like, okay, well, fine, I can do a fixed fee for the implementation. We did some more requirements gathering. I put together a second version. It was a lot more detailed, so I kind of was able to phase out the implementation

23 00:17:40.080 ⇒ 00:17:47.210 Robert Tseng: Briefly, like, there’s obviously still gonna have to be that phase. So, what I heard was, like, he was fine with paying the discovery here.

24 00:17:47.210 ⇒ 00:17:58.799 Robert Tseng: And now I’m like, okay, I can say we could take it out of the engineering, like, or I don’t… maybe I don’t even have to use that tactic if he already agreed… he already agreed there. But,

25 00:17:58.850 ⇒ 00:18:09.869 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess I’m just gonna add… I’m trying to basically say, like, this is… we can figure this out at Discovery, but I’ll tie it to… but anyway, okay, yeah, so anyway, I’m just trying to put what you’re saying

26 00:18:10.480 ⇒ 00:18:13.599 Robert Tseng: And, into, into what I’m… what I’m hearing here, so…

27 00:18:13.600 ⇒ 00:18:29.319 Clarence Stone: So I think, like, the phrasing is more of, like, we’re not doing discovery to price out things for our benefit, we’re actually taking a look at your business and your problem, and then creating suggestions on how we might, you know, develop solutions for you.

28 00:18:30.110 ⇒ 00:18:30.760 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

29 00:18:31.090 ⇒ 00:18:37.980 Clarence Stone: Right, and then creating an executive roadmap to say, this, this is, you know, your, your company’s

30 00:18:38.610 ⇒ 00:18:42.460 Clarence Stone: Priorities, and this is what we’re building to help you build towards that.

31 00:18:43.220 ⇒ 00:18:44.130 Clarence Stone: Right.

32 00:18:48.800 ⇒ 00:18:53.669 Clarence Stone: And usually, if you take that up front, it’s harder for them to go shop that around.

33 00:18:54.400 ⇒ 00:18:55.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

34 00:18:55.490 ⇒ 00:18:58.969 Clarence Stone: Right? Because, you know, they already built in some credits with you.

35 00:19:00.060 ⇒ 00:19:09.159 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I mean, do you feel like I should write out, like, specifically that, oh yeah, this is kind of, like, part of this assessment, is part of the engineering, and, like.

36 00:19:10.010 ⇒ 00:19:20.490 Robert Tseng: I mean, they know what the hourly rates are, but obviously I’m not trying to commit to anything on the implementation side here yet, so, like, I’m not really sure what I should include in this section.

37 00:19:20.960 ⇒ 00:19:34.879 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so, do you want to go to more of an hourly rate structure for this? Or, like, do you want to say we’ll establish what a fixed pre-arrangement would be based on the selection of the, you know.

38 00:19:35.400 ⇒ 00:19:37.469 Clarence Stone: Solutions that you want… you decide to build.

39 00:19:38.230 ⇒ 00:19:44.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, they seemed like they didn’t like our hourly rates, or, like, kind of, he was like.

40 00:19:44.740 ⇒ 00:20:00.560 Robert Tseng: oh, okay, well, if you’re 300 an hour, then I feel like if I only do, like, 10 hours, that I can only do, like, 10 hours a week, I don’t know if that’s gonna be enough. So, in essence, he’s already telling me his… what he thought the implementation would be, which is about 15 grand a month, which…

41 00:20:00.890 ⇒ 00:20:12.950 Robert Tseng: I mean, maybe that will still be the number that I put out there, but I’d rather have that in fix so that I don’t have to commit the hours, you know? But, you know, if he’s fine with the upfront, like, 25 grand.

42 00:20:12.950 ⇒ 00:20:26.859 Robert Tseng: And it sounds like, from what he was saying, he’s got, like, a $15,000, like, implementation budget before executive sign-up that could get bigger, assuming we crush this, we put a good assessment together. Then I tell him, look.

43 00:20:26.920 ⇒ 00:20:34.420 Robert Tseng: I know your budget was 15 grand, go get us more budget, we’ll be able to do a lot more. Like, I just… I need that, like, month of discovery to give them that.

44 00:20:34.860 ⇒ 00:20:40.809 Clarence Stone: Exactly, and what that will give him is 83 hours in dev credits.

45 00:20:41.030 ⇒ 00:20:43.220 Clarence Stone: Plus the 15 that he has.

46 00:20:43.690 ⇒ 00:20:48.160 Clarence Stone: Right, so that’s a lot of runway, that’s… I mean, that’s probably 2 months.

47 00:20:48.790 ⇒ 00:20:49.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

48 00:20:49.530 ⇒ 00:20:52.689 Clarence Stone: Figure out, you know, how he can get his executives to buy in more.

49 00:20:53.640 ⇒ 00:20:54.230 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

50 00:20:55.460 ⇒ 00:20:56.850 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool.

51 00:20:57.020 ⇒ 00:20:58.799 Robert Tseng: Alright, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll work.

52 00:20:58.800 ⇒ 00:21:05.419 Clarence Stone: One second, I’ll give you a quick write-up on what I do for an assessment, and then, like, you can pick and choose what works for you.

53 00:21:05.810 ⇒ 00:21:06.950 Robert Tseng: Okay, thanks.

54 00:21:07.320 ⇒ 00:21:07.890 Clarence Stone: Yay.

55 00:21:12.030 ⇒ 00:21:14.980 Uttam Kumaran: Okay…

56 00:21:16.530 ⇒ 00:21:22.869 Uttam Kumaran: Should we… I mean, I don’t know, this… I think maybe we could, like, we could talk about OKRs. I think from my side…

57 00:21:23.390 ⇒ 00:21:32.210 Uttam Kumaran: the main thing that I wanted to just share a little bit about is, like, expanding on, what I sort of presented on today. I think, like.

58 00:21:32.520 ⇒ 00:21:37.600 Uttam Kumaran: probably this weekend and a bit more, I’m gonna start… I’m gonna continue to flesh out, sort of, how we go from…

59 00:21:38.130 ⇒ 00:21:48.050 Uttam Kumaran: SOW all the way down to, like, the delivery side of things. I think it’s something that everybody on the team is, like, sort of asking for, and I feel like it got us some good wins for me to clarify that this week.

60 00:21:48.210 ⇒ 00:22:05.810 Uttam Kumaran: I also think there’s, like, another piece is that, like, you know, Clarence and I spent some time talking, and I think we’re… we’re really close to basically starting to set, like, what are our delivery standards across the board, and I think that’s also gonna help people just, like, really hit the mark. And I think for people like Jasmine, who are joining.

61 00:22:05.860 ⇒ 00:22:09.849 Uttam Kumaran: that they’re gonna live and breathe by stuff like that, you know?

62 00:22:09.850 ⇒ 00:22:13.040 Robert Tseng: keeps asking for that, so… No, I mean, I think she should be a part of this conversation.

63 00:22:13.040 ⇒ 00:22:28.499 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, people who are… people who know they can hit marks ask where the mark is, typically, which is really fair. And so, I think that’s something I want to really give the delivery team. I mean, we had a great conversation with Demi this week, like.

64 00:22:28.890 ⇒ 00:22:32.920 Uttam Kumaran: he’s a rock star, I think he’s gonna lead AE stuff. I think, again, he just needs…

65 00:22:33.190 ⇒ 00:22:40.230 Uttam Kumaran: I think they just needed, like, where the mark is. But he… but, like, again, I think this is an awesome week to hear from

66 00:22:40.390 ⇒ 00:22:46.410 Uttam Kumaran: This week and last week, especially, to hear from some people on the delivery team who are, like, locked into… to helping us grow, and…

67 00:22:46.570 ⇒ 00:22:50.130 Uttam Kumaran: I think the way I’m kind of thinking of service leads is, one, like.

68 00:22:51.080 ⇒ 00:23:01.039 Uttam Kumaran: sort of like, you just own, like, one station, right? Like, this is the only thing you do, and any part of the pie that pulls from that, you own. I’m also thinking of basically making them…

69 00:23:01.520 ⇒ 00:23:03.530 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of, like, engineering managers.

70 00:23:03.670 ⇒ 00:23:08.219 Uttam Kumaran: Like, sort of, they own the day-to-day of the people that fall under that service.

71 00:23:08.560 ⇒ 00:23:12.249 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s something we… we moved away from.

72 00:23:12.610 ⇒ 00:23:14.380 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s something that, like.

73 00:23:14.770 ⇒ 00:23:17.840 Uttam Kumaran: I think the service leads can take on. I’m excited to give

74 00:23:18.080 ⇒ 00:23:26.070 Uttam Kumaran: Demi and Awash both like more, kind of, people to run, so that they can instead start to talk about their service as a whole, versus, like.

75 00:23:26.290 ⇒ 00:23:28.499 Uttam Kumaran: They’re executing on a bunch of clients.

76 00:23:28.800 ⇒ 00:23:34.009 Uttam Kumaran: But I still believe, like, dude, the strategy team is, like, kind of the only team that…

77 00:23:34.160 ⇒ 00:23:37.790 Uttam Kumaran: I think is, like, really, really needs to be, like, super airtight.

78 00:23:39.750 ⇒ 00:23:47.089 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m… I feel like with Jasmine coming on, I think she’s gonna try to hold people to a really, really high standard. She’s asking great questions.

79 00:23:47.300 ⇒ 00:23:52.539 Uttam Kumaran: She also is referring, like, 3 or 4 people from TikTok, who I’m really compelled to, like.

80 00:23:53.160 ⇒ 00:23:58.330 Uttam Kumaran: Consider super, super heavily, because… She vouched for them, and… like…

81 00:23:58.440 ⇒ 00:24:01.190 Uttam Kumaran: If she works well with them, then I don’t really care.

82 00:24:01.920 ⇒ 00:24:02.470 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

83 00:24:02.940 ⇒ 00:24:08.900 Kaela Gallagher: They’re all, data analysts, by the way. She’s sending me the resumes, and I’m gonna chat with them.

84 00:24:11.040 ⇒ 00:24:17.579 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I think it’s, like, what… I mean, I feel like I think about what Clarence said, which is, like, hire… yeah, just hire your friends.

85 00:24:17.790 ⇒ 00:24:26.790 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I told her, if you guys have, like, an unspoken… if you and these people have, like, an unspoken way of, like, sort of spidey sense for each other, you can grind stuff out, game.

86 00:24:27.020 ⇒ 00:24:29.670 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so… I feel…

87 00:24:29.810 ⇒ 00:24:35.580 Uttam Kumaran: I just feel overall really good about, like, our recruitment pipeline and, like, referral pipeline.

88 00:24:37.140 ⇒ 00:24:45.319 Uttam Kumaran: I… I want to make sure that all of that Expense translates into… Super, super solid delivery.

89 00:24:45.780 ⇒ 00:24:52.630 Uttam Kumaran: And then I think, Robert, your job is to sell more. And I think that’s the… that’s the thing here, you know?

90 00:24:52.900 ⇒ 00:24:57.810 Uttam Kumaran: I, I feel like I’m in a… I just, like…

91 00:24:58.210 ⇒ 00:25:05.939 Uttam Kumaran: if I just got a little bit of cover this week, I would have wrapped it all up, but, like, I have to work this weekend to sort of wrap up the standards and things like that, but…

92 00:25:06.120 ⇒ 00:25:09.559 Uttam Kumaran: That team is gonna be having really, really crisp things they need to hit.

93 00:25:09.760 ⇒ 00:25:14.889 Uttam Kumaran: And I think we’re gonna find out one way or another whether people can hit them, which is good.

94 00:25:15.180 ⇒ 00:25:22.619 Uttam Kumaran: And then the… the… so, I guess I’ll pause there if there’s any questions about, like, delivery or…

95 00:25:23.610 ⇒ 00:25:26.150 Uttam Kumaran: how I’m thinking about that.

96 00:25:30.130 ⇒ 00:25:34.339 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I mean, part of it, Robert, is like, I want Jasmine to just sort of fill in for you.

97 00:25:34.460 ⇒ 00:25:35.160 Uttam Kumaran: Wherever.

98 00:25:35.160 ⇒ 00:25:36.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, that would be the…

99 00:25:36.390 ⇒ 00:25:36.730 Uttam Kumaran: that way.

100 00:25:36.730 ⇒ 00:25:38.669 Robert Tseng: And I value and sell, yeah.

101 00:25:38.900 ⇒ 00:25:42.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you can go and sell, and then you can also come in when she floats stuff up.

102 00:25:42.750 ⇒ 00:25:47.919 Uttam Kumaran: And… and that way, like, I can tell I’m gonna have a pretty close relationship with her.

103 00:25:48.040 ⇒ 00:25:58.419 Uttam Kumaran: And again, like, if she just comes to me with issues, like, I can help solve those. So, I think, finally, we have someone who is, like, at your level on the…

104 00:25:58.550 ⇒ 00:26:00.620 Uttam Kumaran: Strategy side that cares a lot.

105 00:26:00.790 ⇒ 00:26:03.969 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, who wants to kind of own this piece?

106 00:26:04.360 ⇒ 00:26:08.719 Uttam Kumaran: So… and then I also… I also am gonna…

107 00:26:09.850 ⇒ 00:26:26.480 Uttam Kumaran: we’re kind of… what I’m kind of thinking about in terms of, like, bonus and stuff is, like, until people hit standards, like, there’s basically, like, no bonus, and then after that is, like, okay, you have the ability to actually, like, go after bigger things. I think we’re gonna leave, sort of, the sales bonuses in place.

108 00:26:27.310 ⇒ 00:26:27.730 Robert Tseng: Hmm.

109 00:26:27.730 ⇒ 00:26:29.389 Uttam Kumaran: but I’m gonna think about, like.

110 00:26:29.790 ⇒ 00:26:35.649 Uttam Kumaran: you need to hit these standards, and then we’re gonna set some OKRs for both the CSOs and SLs beyond standard achievement.

111 00:26:35.830 ⇒ 00:26:45.110 Uttam Kumaran: Like, for SLs, it could be, like, your ability to forecast and adhere to the forecast, the amount of bugs that are coming out of your service line.

112 00:26:46.700 ⇒ 00:26:48.300 Uttam Kumaran: for the CSOs.

113 00:26:48.530 ⇒ 00:26:57.310 Uttam Kumaran: We could do… I’m thinking about something, like, maybe around CSAT, or something around, like, peer feedback from your team.

114 00:26:58.120 ⇒ 00:27:02.149 Uttam Kumaran: And then we have linear, like, for my clients in a place where, like.

115 00:27:02.520 ⇒ 00:27:05.280 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like, we could run the whole thing through Cursor.

116 00:27:05.460 ⇒ 00:27:15.080 Uttam Kumaran: So, I feel really confident that these guys can, like… the CSOs can project manage, and then they basically need to figure out, Robert, what me and you are talking about, is, like, figure out the…

117 00:27:16.310 ⇒ 00:27:21.349 Uttam Kumaran: like, they have to account manage, they become best friends with these clients, and…

118 00:27:21.560 ⇒ 00:27:25.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s what Pranav is getting better at. I think Greg…

119 00:27:25.870 ⇒ 00:27:34.499 Uttam Kumaran: Is struggling, and so once we hit this… once we set the standards, it’ll be very clear, like, where people are struggling and… and where people need mentorship.

120 00:27:34.830 ⇒ 00:27:35.449 Uttam Kumaran: And then the last…

121 00:27:35.450 ⇒ 00:27:36.740 Robert Tseng: I’ve been struggling, you said?

122 00:27:37.140 ⇒ 00:27:42.649 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I think he’s struggling… yeah, I think… I think this past 3 weeks has been really rough for me. Like, I’ve had to cover…

123 00:27:42.650 ⇒ 00:27:43.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

124 00:27:43.310 ⇒ 00:27:46.730 Uttam Kumaran: On things that he… Signed up for.

125 00:27:46.940 ⇒ 00:27:50.860 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve had to continue to cover on things he signed up for since he’s back this week.

126 00:27:51.070 ⇒ 00:27:55.460 Uttam Kumaran: And I am… will not be doing that past Tuesday. I will just take over.

127 00:27:55.830 ⇒ 00:28:00.220 Uttam Kumaran: Because I can take over and do it, I can’t do this halfway game.

128 00:28:00.430 ⇒ 00:28:05.619 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’ll go to Kayla and be like, okay, we need somebody to do this. Like, you know, so…

129 00:28:06.980 ⇒ 00:28:13.670 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to… but the thing is, like, I can’t… I can’t go give people a path to fixing

130 00:28:13.910 ⇒ 00:28:30.609 Uttam Kumaran: their stuff without giving them, like, hey, you are struggling, you’re doing well on, like, coming to a client meeting, like, prepared to talk and, like, driving it, but you’re not coming prepared, and you’re not, like, you don’t have your linear stuff in a good place. Like, I want to really be, like, there’s 15 things that you have to do.

131 00:28:31.050 ⇒ 00:28:34.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And you could pinpoint the things that are… that are a struggle.

132 00:28:35.110 ⇒ 00:28:37.799 Uttam Kumaran: Thinking about that matrix. It’s for Greg.

133 00:28:38.210 ⇒ 00:28:38.960 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

134 00:28:39.280 ⇒ 00:28:49.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So Greg’s doing well in that, like, he’s able to come to a meeting and schmooze, which is a skill. I feel like there’s… I gotta think of some, like, less, like, word than that, but, like.

135 00:28:50.100 ⇒ 00:28:53.220 Uttam Kumaran: But he… but he’s not spending time

136 00:28:53.410 ⇒ 00:28:58.479 Uttam Kumaran: Learning, like, a little bit more about the depth of some of the services that he’s covering.

137 00:28:59.040 ⇒ 00:29:01.929 Uttam Kumaran: And he’s not organized, like…

138 00:29:02.610 ⇒ 00:29:07.000 Uttam Kumaran: Any of the linear stuff that he runs is just not in a good spot.

139 00:29:07.540 ⇒ 00:29:13.330 Uttam Kumaran: all of the above need to be true at any moment. I think Pranav is sort of a little bit of the opposite, like…

140 00:29:13.910 ⇒ 00:29:18.069 Uttam Kumaran: I think he’s… he is pretty detail-oriented, and he’s… I think.

141 00:29:18.070 ⇒ 00:29:20.649 Robert Tseng: He’s so tight in front of clients, yeah.

142 00:29:20.650 ⇒ 00:29:30.179 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, but I think that’s cause he’s young, and I… and I think, like, yeah, he has to loosen up a little bit. I gave him that feedback. I said, dude, go in there and just, like…

143 00:29:31.300 ⇒ 00:29:40.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, ask this guy, this guy’s running a huge business, like, just figure out what the thing is, like, dude, I said, you know what, you know, ask me what I’m struggling, I’ll tell you, like, probably similar things.

144 00:29:40.970 ⇒ 00:29:42.260 Uttam Kumaran: And,

145 00:29:42.590 ⇒ 00:29:49.290 Uttam Kumaran: But I think Pranav’s problem is that he, at any moment of doubt, he goes back to the, like, framework.

146 00:29:49.590 ⇒ 00:29:53.829 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And you can’t. In a moment of doubt, you have to dance.

147 00:29:54.100 ⇒ 00:30:01.329 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you just have to… you just have to, like, dance. Like, they ask you a question where you’re like.

148 00:30:01.460 ⇒ 00:30:08.259 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t even know what this is. Yo, think for literally 200 milliseconds, and then answer.

149 00:30:08.800 ⇒ 00:30:25.960 Uttam Kumaran: Like, so I don’t know what else to say. Like, and this is what I was talking about, there’s some, like, intuition or unspoken thing that people have to learn. I don’t know, Clarence, if there’s a word for it in the business, but, like, yo, you walk into a room, and you just have to shake hands, and, like.

150 00:30:26.190 ⇒ 00:30:31.839 Uttam Kumaran: you need to be the one talking. Otherwise, people are gonna talk and ask you questions you’re not prepared to answer.

151 00:30:32.080 ⇒ 00:30:41.709 Uttam Kumaran: Fill the airwaves, ask them where they’re from, talk about how you love eating, talk about, dude, I’m losing my hair, I’m getting on finasteride, like, this weekend, like…

152 00:30:42.190 ⇒ 00:30:49.029 Uttam Kumaran: Just, you know, just grind it out, and have fun, and have fun, and I think, like, Greg is able to do that, but then…

153 00:30:49.030 ⇒ 00:30:50.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah, Greg can do that, yeah.

154 00:30:50.290 ⇒ 00:30:55.820 Uttam Kumaran: doesn’t… but, like, so that’s great, and I think that will be better the larger clients we go, because I feel like…

155 00:30:56.050 ⇒ 00:31:03.990 Uttam Kumaran: they may not be as… they may not care as much about the nitty-gritty. Either way, though, like, I told… I told both of them that, like.

156 00:31:04.720 ⇒ 00:31:10.029 Uttam Kumaran: Even if one client cares less about one thing and more, we just have to be at A-plus at all times on everything.

157 00:31:10.180 ⇒ 00:31:18.750 Uttam Kumaran: So it doesn’t matter if the client is biased more towards, like, I need to see tickets, or if it’s, like, a Shivani, or if it’s, like, an ELT. It doesn’t matter. It shouldn’t matter.

158 00:31:18.860 ⇒ 00:31:20.919 Uttam Kumaran: You, you know? Yeah. And,

159 00:31:21.450 ⇒ 00:31:23.980 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to get these guys there, so…

160 00:31:24.600 ⇒ 00:31:25.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

161 00:31:25.800 ⇒ 00:31:30.919 Uttam Kumaran: The last piece I’ll talk about, and I think, like, one of,

162 00:31:31.190 ⇒ 00:31:35.110 Uttam Kumaran: like, Clarence’s connections, who I talked to in February.

163 00:31:35.260 ⇒ 00:31:41.740 Uttam Kumaran: But at that point, we were more in the realm of just hiring more CSOs, like…

164 00:31:41.910 ⇒ 00:31:49.070 Uttam Kumaran: I think this guy, or someone of his archetype, can really, like, be…

165 00:31:49.520 ⇒ 00:31:57.679 Uttam Kumaran: like, a little bit transformative for the stuff we’re doing. I think one of the things that I’m having challenges with, once we set up

166 00:31:58.420 ⇒ 00:32:02.750 Uttam Kumaran: these standards is I have very little time to do the mentorship

167 00:32:02.760 ⇒ 00:32:15.070 Uttam Kumaran: And to do the, like, hey, you are good on all these things, except B. Let’s just hammer, like, this one piece. And so, Kayla and I both, like, I think Kayla… I wanted Kayla involved in this process.

168 00:32:15.070 ⇒ 00:32:24.690 Uttam Kumaran: So that she could see, like, how we do new… new role formation, and also see, like, what is my struggle current… what is one of my struggles on the delivery side.

169 00:32:24.710 ⇒ 00:32:29.489 Uttam Kumaran: And really, like, what I kind of arrived at is, like, something like this, which is, like.

170 00:32:29.970 ⇒ 00:32:40.779 Uttam Kumaran: director of delivery or director of the… I mean, less… this is less concerning this, but, like, this is really the blurb, which is, like, I’m gonna set expectations crystal clear.

171 00:32:41.090 ⇒ 00:32:43.120 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, I owe that to the team.

172 00:32:43.340 ⇒ 00:32:46.149 Uttam Kumaran: But then, we need someone who is able to, like.

173 00:32:46.320 ⇒ 00:32:58.010 Uttam Kumaran: either get people up there, or get people out, and figure that out right now. You know, and I think, like, I was maybe quick, and I think oftentimes.

174 00:32:58.260 ⇒ 00:33:07.889 Uttam Kumaran: I think we are quick to be like, this person doesn’t have it, and I want to make sure that’s the case, because I see glimpses of these people doing the thing.

175 00:33:08.000 ⇒ 00:33:25.759 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s, like, the engine is not starting, you know? And I think, like, once a week, I have a call with them that, like, gets them to the Friday, and then it, like, comes back. And so, this person is supposed to really, like, set some of those standards. And so I’ve written, sort of, like, what it… what is in scope, which is, like.

176 00:33:26.110 ⇒ 00:33:30.230 Uttam Kumaran: Stabilize and scale client delivery, identify the gaps.

177 00:33:30.570 ⇒ 00:33:36.270 Uttam Kumaran: really helped me, like, co-design with me, but, like, execute the roadmap for delivery excellence.

178 00:33:36.380 ⇒ 00:33:42.059 Uttam Kumaran: And then there’s some… there’s a lot… couple pieces about leveraging AI in this process, and then…

179 00:33:42.470 ⇒ 00:33:46.379 Uttam Kumaran: Again, I think a lot of our roles are really around our time.

180 00:33:48.280 ⇒ 00:33:56.170 Kaela Gallagher: I’m curious how you see this differing from Jasmine’s role, or how they might partner.

181 00:33:56.970 ⇒ 00:34:01.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so Jasmine’s role is owning, actually, a specific service.

182 00:34:02.180 ⇒ 00:34:13.349 Uttam Kumaran: So, in that, like, cursor diagram that I showed, like, there is a data service, there is the AI service, and there is the strategy service. Awash owns data.

183 00:34:13.590 ⇒ 00:34:21.929 Uttam Kumaran: Sam owns Strategy, and Jasmine owns this. But what does owning a service mean is something that I haven’t even really, like.

184 00:34:22.080 ⇒ 00:34:29.819 Uttam Kumaran: it doesn’t exist really well on paper. Our first pass at this was the Forging the Future doc, which I think, like.

185 00:34:30.120 ⇒ 00:34:35.820 Uttam Kumaran: set the stage for, like, the thing we want, but I don’t think I’ve made it, like.

186 00:34:36.070 ⇒ 00:34:38.020 Uttam Kumaran: Really, really crisp enough.

187 00:34:38.260 ⇒ 00:34:40.380 Uttam Kumaran: And I think that’s gonna change.

188 00:34:40.510 ⇒ 00:34:44.460 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, in addition to me making it crisp.

189 00:34:44.659 ⇒ 00:34:47.320 Uttam Kumaran: We have to support these guys to hit the standard.

190 00:34:47.760 ⇒ 00:35:01.400 Uttam Kumaran: And so this is the support structure for all of those delivery leaders, right? Like, who does… because, like, literally, I think if I could, I would go spend 8 hours with Pranav, and I think I could… I could just make him into the thing we need.

191 00:35:01.580 ⇒ 00:35:13.310 Uttam Kumaran: I just do not have that time. And so, this is the person that looks at the standards, looks at the team, identifies the gap, and then forces the conversation, pushes people up, or pushes people out.

192 00:35:13.440 ⇒ 00:35:14.050 Uttam Kumaran: And…

193 00:35:14.680 ⇒ 00:35:19.200 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… I think it’s purely, like, a time thing for me on why I can’t do it.

194 00:35:19.360 ⇒ 00:35:24.739 Uttam Kumaran: I also think, looking back, We probably could have…

195 00:35:25.170 ⇒ 00:35:29.919 Uttam Kumaran: done this earlier, and then ramped people up, and then I kind of moved out.

196 00:35:30.220 ⇒ 00:35:33.779 Uttam Kumaran: It was, as usual around here, sort of like everything at once.

197 00:35:33.940 ⇒ 00:35:36.820 Uttam Kumaran: But I am almost interested in trading

198 00:35:36.950 ⇒ 00:35:40.539 Uttam Kumaran: One of our hires for this role at this point.

199 00:35:41.230 ⇒ 00:35:45.490 Uttam Kumaran: Because… I don’t know, I really feel like…

200 00:35:45.960 ⇒ 00:35:50.409 Uttam Kumaran: every 30 minutes or an hour I’m spending with a Greg, a Demi, a Waish.

201 00:35:50.610 ⇒ 00:35:54.749 Uttam Kumaran: I… I… I changed their behavior, really, precisely.

202 00:35:55.020 ⇒ 00:35:59.689 Uttam Kumaran: And I just do not have the time to do that, and I think we need.

203 00:35:59.690 ⇒ 00:36:16.490 Robert Tseng: My issue is that we… you can change that, but it doesn’t stick. And, like, for… for what I’ve seen is, like, once… yeah, in the beginning when someone starts, like, we’re all, like, hyped up on their potential, then it gets to a point where it’s like, okay, we want to take the training wheels off. And whenever we make that switch.

204 00:36:16.490 ⇒ 00:36:30.909 Robert Tseng: then it, like, it… we realized that, like, it’s because they rely on you for the weekly touchpoint that they even get pulled up to that point. But once you’re not meeting with them weekly anymore, things revert back to what it was before. So I wonder how much of that is just, like.

205 00:36:30.910 ⇒ 00:36:41.910 Robert Tseng: manufactured behavior adjustment, just because they use you as a crutch, versus, like, they actually learned and, like, absorbed it into, like, what they’re doing.

206 00:36:41.910 ⇒ 00:37:01.299 Robert Tseng: Right? That was also a problem I had with Henry before, where, yeah, I could spend an hour with him every week, but it was like, I don’t want to spend an hour with him every week. Like, I just… I just… I mean, I’m… and I feel like we’re running into that in a few other situations at this point, too, where, like, they’ve become pretty much, like, addicted to having, like, you, like.

207 00:37:01.310 ⇒ 00:37:13.009 Robert Tseng: basically be there to come to you with, like, something that’s half-baked, and then expecting that you will get it to the standard that you want to see. And they didn’t actually, like, get it there themselves.

208 00:37:17.000 ⇒ 00:37:17.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

209 00:37:17.960 ⇒ 00:37:19.529 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I agree.

210 00:37:19.530 ⇒ 00:37:23.780 Clarence Stone: Robert, I’ll echo what I told Utam, that…

211 00:37:24.030 ⇒ 00:37:32.110 Clarence Stone: This is a cultural problem. Without you guys driving, everything reverts back to the me, which is, we’ll have the call tomorrow.

212 00:37:32.220 ⇒ 00:37:43.550 Clarence Stone: or this, this meeting is not as important as what I’m working on right now, or I’m too busy to do that, right? And so, if there isn’t consistent

213 00:37:43.740 ⇒ 00:37:57.789 Clarence Stone: You know, somebody that’s actually making sure that the quality and standards of the way things work are always being enforced, then, you know, you guys will have to kill each fire drill as it comes.

214 00:37:58.020 ⇒ 00:38:14.840 Clarence Stone: Right? And if you change the culture where this is always the standard, we wake up, we’re ready to, you know, tackle the day and deliver the best for our clients on a regular basis, and you know that that’s going to be in force, well, you know, you start to create some sort of momentum.

215 00:38:15.090 ⇒ 00:38:18.189 Clarence Stone: It has to be a driving force that happens consistently.

216 00:38:19.830 ⇒ 00:38:20.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

217 00:38:21.520 ⇒ 00:38:26.560 Robert Tseng: And will this person be the cultural driver for that? I don’t know, like, I guess that’s, you know…

218 00:38:26.560 ⇒ 00:38:31.630 Clarence Stone: Jonathan Reyna being a Marine, is not compromising.

219 00:38:33.140 ⇒ 00:38:33.730 Clarence Stone: Yes.

220 00:38:34.140 ⇒ 00:38:36.050 Clarence Stone: Have a chat with you. Yeah.

221 00:38:37.000 ⇒ 00:38:42.349 Kaela Gallagher: I was going to ask, like, Uten, what do you mean by replacing one of our other roles with this?

222 00:38:43.430 ⇒ 00:38:50.570 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I guess, like, I look at… we have a fixed outweigh we’re about to spend, And I’m like…

223 00:38:51.100 ⇒ 00:38:55.700 Uttam Kumaran: not… I’m like, is every role more valuable than this role?

224 00:38:56.880 ⇒ 00:38:58.130 Uttam Kumaran: Do you see what I mean?

225 00:38:59.150 ⇒ 00:39:02.830 Kaela Gallagher: Do you mean current rules, or potential openings?

226 00:39:02.830 ⇒ 00:39:03.969 Uttam Kumaran: Current roles.

227 00:39:04.470 ⇒ 00:39:05.220 Kaela Gallagher: Got it.

228 00:39:07.850 ⇒ 00:39:12.699 Robert Tseng: Yeah, he’s saying, like, can we just, like, shuffle the staff so that we don’t have to just, like, hire a net new person?

229 00:39:12.700 ⇒ 00:39:18.460 Uttam Kumaran: Well, okay, we’re gonna, we’re gonna, yeah, we’re gonna spend half a million, or I don’t know, we’re gonna spend a fixed pie.

230 00:39:20.890 ⇒ 00:39:29.600 Uttam Kumaran: I think one of the things that I absorbed was we’re gonna add more people to the system that is just gonna make it even harder

231 00:39:30.220 ⇒ 00:39:32.140 Uttam Kumaran: For us to change habits.

232 00:39:32.730 ⇒ 00:39:38.720 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not meaning that, like, I am going to stop hiring, it’s just that I think we also need this.

233 00:39:39.940 ⇒ 00:39:41.739 Uttam Kumaran: Sooner rather than later.

234 00:39:43.500 ⇒ 00:39:46.819 Uttam Kumaran: Because, ultimately, people are gonna learn from their peers.

235 00:39:47.000 ⇒ 00:39:49.299 Uttam Kumaran: And if the peers are just…

236 00:39:49.540 ⇒ 00:39:52.720 Uttam Kumaran: Also fighting to figure out what the expectations are.

237 00:39:52.840 ⇒ 00:39:55.649 Uttam Kumaran: then… They assume the same form.

238 00:39:56.580 ⇒ 00:40:00.079 Uttam Kumaran: I guess what I’m trying to say is, like, I don’t think…

239 00:40:00.320 ⇒ 00:40:03.020 Uttam Kumaran: a month ago, I could… I really, like…

240 00:40:03.790 ⇒ 00:40:06.710 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think I was able to see this as clearly.

241 00:40:07.260 ⇒ 00:40:10.929 Uttam Kumaran: I think we… we tried to do a version of this.

242 00:40:11.090 ⇒ 00:40:13.290 Uttam Kumaran: as best we could in January.

243 00:40:13.820 ⇒ 00:40:22.640 Uttam Kumaran: And it just wasn’t, like, the accountability and the conversation and the look to look back at the doc and make sure, like, you’re doing… it just… I just wasn’t able to do it.

244 00:40:22.860 ⇒ 00:40:26.020 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m… I feel like there is a role for that.

245 00:40:26.170 ⇒ 00:40:30.860 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like I’ve… I found somebody that can embody the role, but this is where I’m like.

246 00:40:30.980 ⇒ 00:40:36.020 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to create a role just around somebody, like, I want to create a role that exists.

247 00:40:36.370 ⇒ 00:40:42.500 Uttam Kumaran: and that we’re happy about the milestones, and then evaluate someone into that. But, like, that’s sort of what I’m thinking.

248 00:40:43.300 ⇒ 00:40:44.889 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, got it.

249 00:40:45.600 ⇒ 00:40:47.310 Robert Tseng: You’ve talked to Jonathan, Tom?

250 00:40:48.060 ⇒ 00:40:52.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I talked to him. He’s a pretty senior dude at Booz Allen in San Antonio.

251 00:40:53.020 ⇒ 00:40:53.960 Robert Tseng: Like… Okay.

252 00:40:55.160 ⇒ 00:40:59.689 Uttam Kumaran: Like, yeah, you should talk to him, you’ll be like, yeah, this is, like, a serious dude.

253 00:40:59.850 ⇒ 00:41:06.590 Uttam Kumaran: I think when I first talked to him a few months ago, I was,

254 00:41:08.100 ⇒ 00:41:20.150 Uttam Kumaran: I was trying to hire, like, CSO, and I don’t think he has the technical chops to… to, like, at this time, for our client size, lead as a CSO, but I’ve kind of, like, didn’t…

255 00:41:20.680 ⇒ 00:41:27.820 Uttam Kumaran: I sort of started thinking of, like, okay, like, we need, like, portfolio managers, and then we kind of talked about, like, what we tried to do with

256 00:41:28.260 ⇒ 00:41:31.030 Uttam Kumaran: Alex and the other guy, and I’m like.

257 00:41:31.480 ⇒ 00:41:36.399 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but I don’t really want, like, a portfolio manager, like… I don’t want PMO.

258 00:41:36.400 ⇒ 00:41:37.890 Robert Tseng: That’s gonna be my next question.

259 00:41:38.020 ⇒ 00:41:38.540 Robert Tseng: And now.

260 00:41:38.540 ⇒ 00:41:39.170 Uttam Kumaran: No, I don’t want.

261 00:41:39.170 ⇒ 00:41:41.479 Robert Tseng: Can Alex do this?

262 00:41:43.040 ⇒ 00:41:48.100 Uttam Kumaran: The problem I thought about with Alex, though, is he was so process-forward.

263 00:41:48.870 ⇒ 00:41:49.240 Robert Tseng: Yep.

264 00:41:49.240 ⇒ 00:41:51.720 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t like that.

265 00:41:52.290 ⇒ 00:41:55.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah, he’s a walking PMO textbook. Yeah, I got it, yeah.

266 00:41:55.330 ⇒ 00:41:57.040 Uttam Kumaran: I like action.

267 00:41:57.620 ⇒ 00:42:03.090 Uttam Kumaran: Because we are in the business of action, and one day we won’t be, and we’ll be rich by that point.

268 00:42:03.880 ⇒ 00:42:20.810 Uttam Kumaran: like, we compete on, like, days and weeks, and that is why we are really, really good. I am not interested in a 3-month PMO roadmap. I have the PMO roadmap. I chucked it all out, and we’re not doing any of that, anyways. And, like, I’m interested in people who are, like.

269 00:42:20.930 ⇒ 00:42:28.199 Uttam Kumaran: I see your problem, I think I can… I think I can bang this out. And also, I’m interested in people in this role.

270 00:42:28.200 ⇒ 00:42:43.249 Uttam Kumaran: who are not interested in the challenge that they need me to do. Meaning, that person needs me to set the standards of, like, if we do these things, we will win. And that person is gonna say, thank you, I will go make sure these people do those things.

271 00:42:45.500 ⇒ 00:42:55.309 Robert Tseng: I think this is worth pitching to Garrett, too, if you talk to him next week. Two very philosophically different people. If Jonathan is Marine background, sure, I think I understand that.

272 00:42:55.310 ⇒ 00:43:05.970 Robert Tseng: So do we want a culture of, like, an enforcer who’s gonna just, like, kind of crack the whip on people, versus, like, somebody who’s, like, very much in… into, like.

273 00:43:05.970 ⇒ 00:43:12.860 Uttam Kumaran: We can’t have someone like me… I just think we can’t have more people like me, because I’m way too, like, forgiving, and I’m way too, like…

274 00:43:13.460 ⇒ 00:43:15.840 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll get there, like, let me help you, I…

275 00:43:16.470 ⇒ 00:43:18.560 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t need another version of me.

276 00:43:18.670 ⇒ 00:43:21.629 Uttam Kumaran: So this is why I’m actually interested in

277 00:43:21.860 ⇒ 00:43:24.119 Uttam Kumaran: Someone who is, like, a foil to that.

278 00:43:24.430 ⇒ 00:43:28.450 Uttam Kumaran: Because I think it’s very effective in that way. Because I think someone…

279 00:43:28.590 ⇒ 00:43:34.610 Uttam Kumaran: who is more of a person who’s like, yo, you have 10 things to do today, just do those 10 things, and we’re good.

280 00:43:35.050 ⇒ 00:43:40.589 Uttam Kumaran: And then me, who I’m like, okay, in what ways are those 10 things actually the core ideas?

281 00:43:40.950 ⇒ 00:43:44.319 Uttam Kumaran: Also, that person typically will have a tough time, like.

282 00:43:44.530 ⇒ 00:43:48.759 Uttam Kumaran: Maintaining camaraderie and a culture, and like, they shouldn’t be tasked to do that.

283 00:43:48.940 ⇒ 00:43:50.410 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t want them to get…

284 00:43:51.150 ⇒ 00:43:55.660 Uttam Kumaran: I just, I don’t know, but I guess I, like, yeah, I think it’s worth asking Garrett.

285 00:43:55.990 ⇒ 00:44:02.060 Uttam Kumaran: I think I liked Jonathan, because he’s this… he’s not like… you don’t talk to… he’s not, like, a mean dude. I don’t mean to portray.

286 00:44:02.060 ⇒ 00:44:03.840 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’ll talk to him too, yeah.

287 00:44:04.090 ⇒ 00:44:18.809 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I don’t mean to pour Chase, like, a really nice guy, like, super, super nice, very professional. I could tell he’s, like, very interested, and you’ll like this bonus part, is that he sells purely to Fed.

288 00:44:18.960 ⇒ 00:44:24.779 Uttam Kumaran: Like, and he called me after and was like, hey, I actually also think I can get us into

289 00:44:25.200 ⇒ 00:44:33.390 Uttam Kumaran: like, federal. He’s like, I work for Booze, we subcontract a ton to firms your size, there’s a huge gap.

290 00:44:33.610 ⇒ 00:44:42.519 Uttam Kumaran: in this market, for people that… for subs like you, who want to come take that, because the big companies can’t execute, I think I can get us into Fed.

291 00:44:42.730 ⇒ 00:44:45.939 Uttam Kumaran: I think state is probably, like, very similar, and…

292 00:44:46.150 ⇒ 00:44:49.100 Uttam Kumaran: he was like… and I told him, okay, that’s phase two.

293 00:44:49.400 ⇒ 00:44:54.860 Uttam Kumaran: I said, this is number one, but I was like, dude, if you then can also sell, Ben.

294 00:44:55.290 ⇒ 00:44:59.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, it’s a… it was a no-brainer. So he has this, like.

295 00:45:00.660 ⇒ 00:45:07.790 Uttam Kumaran: this vertical, this, like, I don’t know, vertical horse, whatever. He has this, like, unique experience in selling to the federal government.

296 00:45:09.540 ⇒ 00:45:12.140 Uttam Kumaran: That is also something we haven’t really…

297 00:45:12.550 ⇒ 00:45:14.659 Uttam Kumaran: Seen before in anyone that’s come through the door.

298 00:45:15.750 ⇒ 00:45:16.360 Robert Tseng: Okay.

299 00:45:16.730 ⇒ 00:45:21.570 Uttam Kumaran: So again, I also think back to, like, Yo, everybody should be producing.

300 00:45:22.220 ⇒ 00:45:27.119 Uttam Kumaran: And… I think we are far from that on the current delivery team.

301 00:45:29.300 ⇒ 00:45:34.170 Uttam Kumaran: And someday, like, that will have to change. Like, someone will… you either produce candidates.

302 00:45:34.360 ⇒ 00:45:43.579 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, Kayla, you’re good. Or you produce business, right? Or you up… or you take active business and you expand. There’s… that’s…

303 00:45:44.770 ⇒ 00:45:48.199 Uttam Kumaran: Or you prevent churn. What else is there, you know?

304 00:45:48.200 ⇒ 00:45:48.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

305 00:45:48.570 ⇒ 00:45:49.680 Uttam Kumaran: And,

306 00:45:50.690 ⇒ 00:45:59.909 Uttam Kumaran: again, I think the… yeah, so I feel like when people also come to the table on the delivery side with the fact that they can go after business.

307 00:46:00.030 ⇒ 00:46:04.430 Uttam Kumaran: It’s really, really compelling. I think it’s worth talking to this guy, but I also want… I don’t want to, like…

308 00:46:04.980 ⇒ 00:46:11.109 Uttam Kumaran: I want to bifurcate the fact that, like, are we… we feel like we… I want everybody here to, like, read this JD and be like.

309 00:46:11.370 ⇒ 00:46:12.849 Uttam Kumaran: This is what we need.

310 00:46:13.160 ⇒ 00:46:17.249 Uttam Kumaran: And then be like, okay, Who do we have that can fit it? But…

311 00:46:17.420 ⇒ 00:46:17.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

312 00:46:20.230 ⇒ 00:46:26.809 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think Kayla… I mean, I told him, I think, yeah, Kayla, you should give him a chat, I think Robert, you should chat with him. Yeah, I feel like…

313 00:46:28.100 ⇒ 00:46:28.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

314 00:46:29.650 ⇒ 00:46:45.990 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Yeah, we have some really, like, interesting people in the strategy pipeline, too. Like, we have a Deloitte person right now who kind of, like, account manages data products there. Greg just moved him to a final, so we have some… some interesting folks.

315 00:46:47.850 ⇒ 00:46:51.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think… We need more of those folks.

316 00:46:52.390 ⇒ 00:46:54.380 Uttam Kumaran: We can actually drive our project forward.

317 00:46:54.880 ⇒ 00:46:59.889 Uttam Kumaran: like, I’ll teach them how to, like, dance their way around talking about data engineering or modeling. Like, that’s…

318 00:47:00.570 ⇒ 00:47:02.770 Uttam Kumaran: We need, like, really account managers.

319 00:47:02.960 ⇒ 00:47:07.010 Uttam Kumaran: Well, you need more of that, I feel like. But again, I think, Robert, your point today about, like.

320 00:47:09.490 ⇒ 00:47:16.109 Uttam Kumaran: You made a point today about, like, yeah, we don’t just need, like, account managers, though, we need people with technical depth.

321 00:47:17.050 ⇒ 00:47:22.860 Uttam Kumaran: like, the problem with me is that, like, yes, I can just start… I, like, can talk the business stuff, but then…

322 00:47:23.180 ⇒ 00:47:28.699 Uttam Kumaran: like, I also just, like, have a background in doing this for a long time, which is very, very compelling.

323 00:47:28.830 ⇒ 00:47:31.159 Uttam Kumaran: For people that are buying our service.

324 00:47:31.990 ⇒ 00:47:37.900 Uttam Kumaran: my bet was that I could turn some of these engineers on our team who are senior into that.

325 00:47:38.800 ⇒ 00:47:42.840 Uttam Kumaran: So far, not great. Like, so far, tough.

326 00:47:43.710 ⇒ 00:47:50.620 Uttam Kumaran: So, our option is we either turn into a factory for that, which I think maybe over time we get better at, like, internal L&D,

327 00:47:51.050 ⇒ 00:48:00.450 Uttam Kumaran: Or we go snipe people that are currently doing that and are being undervalued, or, like, are not selling the thing they want to sell, or want to sell AI.

328 00:48:00.850 ⇒ 00:48:01.470 Uttam Kumaran: You know?

329 00:48:01.470 ⇒ 00:48:11.629 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess to give people a little bit more context, I was talking to one of our mixed wall advisors today, and one of the topics we discussed was, like, I was… I just kind of asked them, like.

330 00:48:12.000 ⇒ 00:48:27.709 Robert Tseng: you know, our Q1 performance is what it is, like, I already told them, we kind of tweaked some pricing, and like, you know, but then it’s kind of like, okay, if we’re going to grow our business, we can either add a bunch of net new logos, or we just… or we focus on growing accounts. If you had to pick one direction, what would you go?

331 00:48:27.710 ⇒ 00:48:34.790 Robert Tseng: And he said, like, he’s biased towards, like, he finds a business that’s growing accounts more valuable. He said, if you guys are…

332 00:48:35.090 ⇒ 00:48:49.450 Robert Tseng: 60… I mean, the businesses he’s invested in, they’re 60… 60% to 80%, kind of existing… existing accounts revenue. So, like, people who are existing customers that are just… that are just expanding.

333 00:48:49.480 ⇒ 00:48:55.839 Robert Tseng: He says, like, yeah, if you’re just gonna add a bunch of net new logos, you need to have, like, a… you need to build out the traditional sales force.

334 00:48:55.840 ⇒ 00:49:11.929 Robert Tseng: model, you need to get BDRs and be accept… and accept that you’re just gonna churn through clients one to three months, you’re gonna deliver services at, like, a… at a C quality, and your clients will not stick with you. But you just have, like, the sales motion where you can just keep going and getting new logos.

335 00:49:11.950 ⇒ 00:49:34.460 Robert Tseng: I just think that, like, Utama and I, we’re just not wired that way. We don’t deliver C-level work, so… and we also just, like, I mean, we’re not traditional, like, BDRs either, so if it feels more aligned, and even looking at our existing business, we do have a track record with, like, about 50% of our revenue already that’s, like, from existing clients, tacking on new service lines, expanding accounts, whatever it is. So…

336 00:49:34.600 ⇒ 00:49:44.180 Robert Tseng: And then I’m asking him, like, okay, well, who, like, what is the background of a person on delivery that needs to do that? And so we’re talking about qualifications and everything.

337 00:49:44.210 ⇒ 00:49:45.250 Robert Tseng: And I’m like.

338 00:49:45.260 ⇒ 00:49:53.920 Robert Tseng: what is this… okay, like, beyond, like, the stuff on paper, it’s… maybe it’s one of those things where you know it when you see it, like, what is that… what does that person look like?

339 00:49:53.920 ⇒ 00:50:12.149 Robert Tseng: And he said, it’s… it’s Utah. It’s like an engineer with his interpersonal skills. Like, it’s just… there are not many people that have that, who can… who are technical background first, but then can, like, actually… that are interested in doing the account management and business side as well.

340 00:50:12.150 ⇒ 00:50:16.510 Robert Tseng: So, I’m… I mean, he… he kind of gave me a bunch of other…

341 00:50:16.510 ⇒ 00:50:26.879 Robert Tseng: requirements for what this person could look like on paper, but I feel like that resonates with me. Like, personality-wise, there’s nobody on the delivery side that has your personality, Uten, that’s, like, engineered.

342 00:50:26.880 ⇒ 00:50:38.720 Robert Tseng: And, like, you know, it’s just… and I’m not saying we need to, you know, find a bunch of UTAM lookalikes, but I think there’s probably something to be said there that it may be more of a nature versus nurture thing, where, like, we just…

343 00:50:39.670 ⇒ 00:50:42.559 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we, we, we just, we need, like… Yeah.

344 00:50:42.810 ⇒ 00:50:43.310 Robert Tseng: People.

345 00:50:43.310 ⇒ 00:50:47.959 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s where Clarence, like, I think that’s… I think, Clarence, like, what do you think about that?

346 00:50:50.320 ⇒ 00:50:51.670 Clarence Stone: Oh, man…

347 00:50:51.970 ⇒ 00:50:55.159 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t, don’t go, don’t go back to your normal… give me a different answer.

348 00:50:58.570 ⇒ 00:51:02.839 Uttam Kumaran: He’s gonna say, you didn’t set the standard, I know, but, like, but, like, honestly…

349 00:51:02.840 ⇒ 00:51:04.260 Robert Tseng: them right now to a different show.

350 00:51:04.260 ⇒ 00:51:14.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m like, but answer it honestly, like, in your career. Like, I hear you, we’re gonna do those, we’re gonna do that, it’s happening, but think about, like, in your career.

351 00:51:14.530 ⇒ 00:51:25.799 Uttam Kumaran: Do you feel like the places, on average, nurtured those types of people, the person we’re describing, or they came in and they just, like, turned the volume on that thing that they were already, like, nice at?

352 00:51:25.800 ⇒ 00:51:27.679 Clarence Stone: I was absolutely molded.

353 00:51:28.630 ⇒ 00:51:29.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

354 00:51:29.160 ⇒ 00:51:36.359 Clarence Stone: I… I could not sell for shit. I was technically talented, I could build anything, and I can actually

355 00:51:36.580 ⇒ 00:51:48.349 Clarence Stone: you know, make really pretty products, but I didn’t know how to sell anything. I didn’t know how to run a, you know, entire, you know, $5 million engagement, but I learned all those things.

356 00:51:48.670 ⇒ 00:52:07.250 Clarence Stone: I learned how to manage my sales pipelines. I learned how to prospect. I… I mean, it wasn’t easy, and I don’t think that a lot of people who go through that type of mentorship are going to make it, but what comes out on the other side is… is a pretty rare monster, you know, so…

357 00:52:07.570 ⇒ 00:52:13.599 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I will… I will confess, like, this is not how I was before.

358 00:52:19.950 ⇒ 00:52:21.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, sort of like.

359 00:52:21.960 ⇒ 00:52:26.839 Clarence Stone: But, like, to pour that into your people is a massive time investment.

360 00:52:26.930 ⇒ 00:52:45.980 Clarence Stone: It, requires them to have that discipline to wake up and not just, you know, check the box and say, I’m gonna do my 8 hours, I’m gonna do, you know, exactly what this, you know, linear ticket says, but, like, think about, what am I building? Who am I building it for? What does the client want? What are their sensibilities?

361 00:52:45.980 ⇒ 00:52:54.809 Clarence Stone: what is this thing that I’m building as a enterprise solution going to be for the entire, you know, market, and how can I, you know.

362 00:52:54.890 ⇒ 00:53:03.889 Clarence Stone: phrase things or pitch it so that, you know, it can be scalable, right? And, like, all of those things are just different levels that you go through.

363 00:53:05.080 ⇒ 00:53:19.570 Robert Tseng: Okay, my question is, like, what were some of the early signals that you should… I mean, like, I don’t think this is, like, a formal program you signed up for. It’s clearly not part of the original job description you were hired for. Like, you had to have expressed… you have to have shown, I guess, whoever mentored you

364 00:53:19.570 ⇒ 00:53:25.900 Robert Tseng: like, some signals that they’re like, okay, Clarence, it’s got potential, worth investing in.

365 00:53:25.900 ⇒ 00:53:28.850 Clarence Stone: No, yeah, like, I feel like it’s not something we can put.

366 00:53:28.850 ⇒ 00:53:29.570 Robert Tseng: into it.

367 00:53:29.570 ⇒ 00:53:30.180 Clarence Stone: Yeah. Okay.

368 00:53:30.180 ⇒ 00:53:42.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and then my follow-on question is to pattern match it to some of the people positive, like, both people that you’ve seen have similar signals, and people that have given the anti-signals of the people at Brainforge right now.

369 00:53:43.190 ⇒ 00:53:46.579 Clarence Stone: So, like, if you were to ask me what, like.

370 00:53:46.580 ⇒ 00:54:04.529 Clarence Stone: properties there are. It’s the people who are gonna spend time outside of work just to learn something for the sake of learning something, because they have the drive and the grit and, you know, like, the ramp to be able to adjust and adapt to this moment in technology. Because if you don’t have that, you’re gonna fail.

371 00:54:04.530 ⇒ 00:54:13.040 Clarence Stone: you’re gonna fail because you’re gonna do things the way you were always doing it, and that’s not gonna be how the world is gonna work in a year or two. Not even in three months.

372 00:54:13.100 ⇒ 00:54:25.679 Clarence Stone: Right? But, I mean, to go back to how this was, it’s not a formal program at all, you’re right, Robert. Like, I built… I was the product leader for EY’s Global Tax Platform. Like.

373 00:54:26.190 ⇒ 00:54:33.489 Clarence Stone: at this point, like, $5 billion worth of tax work is going through it, right? And they pretty much said, hey,

374 00:54:33.830 ⇒ 00:54:40.490 Clarence Stone: we… We need you to, like, do something else and sell if you want to get promoted.

375 00:54:41.980 ⇒ 00:54:42.510 Clarence Stone: Right.

376 00:54:42.510 ⇒ 00:54:46.100 Robert Tseng: Right, so someone told you that, like, you needed to expand in order to get promotion, like.

377 00:54:46.100 ⇒ 00:54:54.839 Clarence Stone: And then I was like, I don’t know how to do that, but one of the partners came to me one day, and he’s like, hey, kid, come here, this client wants this thing. Tell me how you would pitch it.

378 00:54:55.340 ⇒ 00:54:57.119 Clarence Stone: Gave me nothing. Zero.

379 00:54:57.370 ⇒ 00:55:10.590 Clarence Stone: And I made a quick demo, I made a quick slide deck, he ripped up the whole thing into shreds, and he’s like, okay, now we have a meeting with the practice leader in 15 minutes, go fix all of it, get it standardized, and get ready for the meeting.

380 00:55:12.100 ⇒ 00:55:19.390 Clarence Stone: He says not a single word in that meeting, and after that, he’s like, this is how you should have said it. When you said this, you meant this.

381 00:55:21.160 ⇒ 00:55:36.540 Clarence Stone: communication has to be, right? So, like, that was the first moment. I remember it very vividly, going, like, he wants me to fix all of this in, like, 15, 30 minutes? Holy crap, right? But that just became the standard going forward. It’s like, we don’t even, you know, like.

382 00:55:36.540 ⇒ 00:55:48.550 Clarence Stone: UTAM’s like this, too, actually. Like, once you get good at it, like, you don’t even prep a slide deck for the meeting, you just kind of, like, sit down 30 minutes before, and you just go, this is what I want to tell the client. And you make the deck.

383 00:55:49.220 ⇒ 00:55:56.590 Clarence Stone: Right? But that, like, wasn’t something that you woke up being able to do. It was through a lot of reps and a lot of mentorship.

384 00:55:59.100 ⇒ 00:56:08.289 Clarence Stone: But to answer your question, Utom, like, who’s fit for it? I think everybody here has the aptitude for it, but I’m not sure they have the drive.

385 00:56:09.580 ⇒ 00:56:10.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

386 00:56:10.200 ⇒ 00:56:24.109 Clarence Stone: And the drive is a cultural aspect of, are other people around me sprinting, or are they chilling and, you know, checking off the boxes? If everybody’s sprinting, you go, whoa, I am, you know, not as good as everyone else.

387 00:56:24.110 ⇒ 00:56:36.819 Clarence Stone: well, you know, people are going to pick up their pace. I’ll tell you guys, honestly, when I first started at EY, I was like, holy crap, I am not as good as that person, that person, that person, right? A year and a half in, I’m better than all of them at it.

388 00:56:37.700 ⇒ 00:56:49.339 Clarence Stone: Why? Because I woke up, and I’m like, what do they do? What were their, you know, ways of doing it? How did they present? How were they able to navigate this tricky situation or manage a client? I’m taking notes, and I’m getting better.

389 00:56:52.260 ⇒ 00:57:00.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, for me, yeah, for me, it was, like, a lot of WeWork. I mean, I saw us go from, like, nothing to, like, really, really big. Like, I saw…

390 00:57:00.480 ⇒ 00:57:02.989 Uttam Kumaran: Just, like, the amount of pressure…

391 00:57:03.330 ⇒ 00:57:12.959 Uttam Kumaran: And… but I… and I was, like, really young, and so I was like, oh my god, I’m able to, like, work on this. I was the only one on our data team with, like, any finance background, and so…

392 00:57:13.350 ⇒ 00:57:17.040 Uttam Kumaran: I, like, literally, like, worked on the IPO, because I was just, like.

393 00:57:17.330 ⇒ 00:57:21.490 Uttam Kumaran: I read… at that time, I was reading every S1 that got published.

394 00:57:22.420 ⇒ 00:57:26.120 Uttam Kumaran: to the SEC, like, I was literally, like, reading it for fun.

395 00:57:26.290 ⇒ 00:57:29.719 Uttam Kumaran: So I really, really knew, like, what we needed to do.

396 00:57:29.970 ⇒ 00:57:34.040 Uttam Kumaran: And I was like, Okay, let’s, like, lock in and do this.

397 00:57:34.420 ⇒ 00:57:42.189 Uttam Kumaran: And then a flow code, like, yeah, similarly, I was like, okay, I have a shot to build this whole team single-handedly. QR kind of took off.

398 00:57:42.590 ⇒ 00:57:48.990 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I mean, I will agree with Clarence, like, I had a… I had a real interest in, like, going and doing that, you know?

399 00:57:49.180 ⇒ 00:57:56.640 Uttam Kumaran: And… I wonder… I tech… I messaged in this… I wonder how we get signals for that earlier on?

400 00:57:57.070 ⇒ 00:58:06.890 Uttam Kumaran: I do think that that’s typically how I interview engineers. All of our people are typically passionate about something in their spare time.

401 00:58:07.230 ⇒ 00:58:10.749 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I, that’s, like, and I know that, but maybe that wasn’t enough.

402 00:58:11.130 ⇒ 00:58:12.460 Uttam Kumaran: To ask about?

403 00:58:14.200 ⇒ 00:58:14.570 Robert Tseng: Maybe it’s.

404 00:58:14.570 ⇒ 00:58:15.160 Uttam Kumaran: Truth in life.

405 00:58:15.450 ⇒ 00:58:25.840 Robert Tseng: The hobby they have, or whatever they’re interested in outside of work, and also you have to signal them, we have to get signal, like, whether they want to sell. Like, they have to be excited about selling you work.

406 00:58:26.050 ⇒ 00:58:31.080 Robert Tseng: Like, maybe we just… we would just add… layer that in as a second… second thing that they need to… need to have.

407 00:58:31.300 ⇒ 00:58:33.740 Robert Tseng: So they gotta be nerds, and also be willing…

408 00:58:33.740 ⇒ 00:58:35.220 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where I’ll say, like.

409 00:58:35.220 ⇒ 00:58:35.740 Robert Tseng: So…

410 00:58:35.970 ⇒ 00:58:41.719 Uttam Kumaran: I… this is where I’ll say, like, Zoron, Demi, like, these guys are all interested in selling.

411 00:58:42.150 ⇒ 00:58:47.670 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s why I’m like, okay, and they’re, like, they both will, like, work their ass off, so…

412 00:58:48.740 ⇒ 00:58:56.530 Uttam Kumaran: I think for Demi in particular, if he looks left and right and sees people that are kind of chilling, I could tell that’s gonna… he’s gonna start to chill. I… I, like…

413 00:58:57.090 ⇒ 00:59:10.370 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not someone like that, but, like, I can tell that it’s, like, he’s, like, everybody… not everybody here is, like, amazing, so I have to change that for him. But then I’m also like, okay, he wants to sell, like, and so how can we give him a roadmap to that?

414 00:59:10.530 ⇒ 00:59:22.559 Uttam Kumaran: I feel Pranav is kind of similar. Like, dude, Pranav is, like, will learn, like, he doesn’t take anything personal, he really, really wants to become an amazing consultant. Like, I think he takes it really seriously, I think…

415 00:59:22.680 ⇒ 00:59:40.880 Uttam Kumaran: you’re… you’re… I think, again, because of how seriously he takes it, he is not loose, you know, and there’s some of these things that you learn. But I… I also feel like with him, okay, I can see a path there. It’s not today, but, like, he clearly wants to… he doesn’t want to stay in engineering.

416 00:59:41.450 ⇒ 00:59:45.229 Uttam Kumaran: And he wants to go, like, run accounts.

417 00:59:46.910 ⇒ 00:59:48.060 Uttam Kumaran: So…

418 00:59:48.400 ⇒ 00:59:54.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t know, I’m sort of like… but then, again, I think there’s some people who, like, yeah, they just… they should just plug in and…

419 00:59:54.550 ⇒ 01:00:00.080 Uttam Kumaran: Do the engineering work, and… and they shouldn’t lead… they shouldn’t be, like, a… a delivery leader, you know?

420 01:00:00.950 ⇒ 01:00:01.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

421 01:00:07.030 ⇒ 01:00:07.529 Robert Tseng: Does that mean?

422 01:00:07.530 ⇒ 01:00:18.909 Uttam Kumaran: And whether… if… even if it is sort of, like, a longer L&D, like, thing, then maybe that’s what this person is tasked to do. Not only, like, execute, but then maybe, Kayla, they work with you and, like, build out, like.

423 01:00:20.040 ⇒ 01:00:23.540 Uttam Kumaran: They build out, like, a 90-day Brainforge way program, you know?

424 01:00:23.710 ⇒ 01:00:26.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Where you come in, and then you… whatever…

425 01:00:26.710 ⇒ 01:00:31.590 Uttam Kumaran: Whatever baggage you had from the other business, like, you drop it, and then you become, like.

426 01:00:31.930 ⇒ 01:00:34.700 Uttam Kumaran: You become the way we need you to be, or you don’t?

427 01:00:35.350 ⇒ 01:00:39.309 Uttam Kumaran: And at least someone finds that out before I find that out, you know? That’d be great.

428 01:00:41.860 ⇒ 01:01:00.709 Robert Tseng: And last thing I want to say is, like, I think this cultural shift, I mean, not to… it’s, like, not necessarily a self-fulfilling prophecy, but Clarence and Utah, you guys are describing environments where you had people to look around you, you know? Like, we… being a fully remote company, we’re just… we don’t really have that. Sure, sure. People don’t want to be on Slack, they just… they just… just…

429 01:01:00.710 ⇒ 01:01:05.290 Clarence Stone: Okay, so to Eli’s question, I was completely remote anyway.

430 01:01:06.140 ⇒ 01:01:07.080 Robert Tseng: Oh, really?

431 01:01:08.150 ⇒ 01:01:12.779 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so that’s why I’m actually in San Antonio now. Like, it didn’t matter where I went.

432 01:01:12.780 ⇒ 01:01:16.349 Uttam Kumaran: Did you go… did you go in person, like, once a month, or once… what was the cadence?

433 01:01:16.350 ⇒ 01:01:21.390 Clarence Stone: No, we would only go in a person if there was client expenses that were paying for it.

434 01:01:21.610 ⇒ 01:01:31.100 Clarence Stone: So, like, when I got assigned to, like, larger clients, I was traveling a lot, but when I worked on platform for the first year and a half, it was all about.

435 01:01:31.730 ⇒ 01:01:42.449 Clarence Stone: So this is why, like, I don’t know, Robert, if you’ve heard me in meetings, but, like, my biggest gripe is that this team doesn’t talk. I know that they’re unsure of things, but they don’t bring it up.

436 01:01:42.580 ⇒ 01:01:47.760 Clarence Stone: I know that, you know, they have questions about things, but they don’t ask about it. And…

437 01:01:47.760 ⇒ 01:01:48.710 Robert Tseng: Jasmine, Jasmine.

438 01:01:48.710 ⇒ 01:02:02.940 Clarence Stone: I want meaningful conversation as in, like, instead of saying, I don’t understand it, you say something like, this is my current understanding of it, this is, you know, where my gap is, can you, you know, help me close that gap?

439 01:02:03.450 ⇒ 01:02:18.260 Clarence Stone: Right? There’s communication attitudes that… that need to be built, and that’s why I keep telling you, Tom, like, it’s… like, I can’t measure that for you, there’s no metric for it, but, like, it’s a cultural attitude where, you know, you’re communicating much more.

440 01:02:18.720 ⇒ 01:02:19.250 Clarence Stone: Right.

441 01:02:19.250 ⇒ 01:02:19.850 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

442 01:02:22.440 ⇒ 01:02:33.419 Clarence Stone: Like, I struggle to get this platform up because, like, I ping the team, and I get half an answer, and I go, hey, I need to know exactly this. And I hear back the next day.

443 01:02:33.740 ⇒ 01:02:39.779 Clarence Stone: And that, you know, so if you’re remote, your ping response has to be, you know, really fast.

444 01:02:40.380 ⇒ 01:02:43.929 Clarence Stone: Or else, like, velocity of business moving is just gonna be destroyed.

445 01:02:44.980 ⇒ 01:02:45.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

446 01:02:47.850 ⇒ 01:02:50.920 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s also the thing, like, I don’t inform… I’m not, like, that person.

447 01:02:51.450 ⇒ 01:02:58.080 Uttam Kumaran: like… That’s not my relationship with the people on the team, and like… I can’t be both.

448 01:02:58.840 ⇒ 01:03:00.899 Uttam Kumaran: Like, so, I could be one?

449 01:03:01.160 ⇒ 01:03:04.050 Uttam Kumaran: And then it’s gonna look very, very different around here.

450 01:03:04.630 ⇒ 01:03:08.529 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t know if half the people would have joined, if I was, like, thinking about

451 01:03:09.230 ⇒ 01:03:14.849 Uttam Kumaran: my… the person who would make me fearful about what I’m doing, if I became that person, I don’t know.

452 01:03:16.180 ⇒ 01:03:21.790 Uttam Kumaran: So I… but I also, I’m like, what do we do? And so that’s why I think there has to be a foil to this.

453 01:03:23.200 ⇒ 01:03:27.749 Uttam Kumaran: Because it’s not like I don’t have, like, an intensity and a drive to go win, but…

454 01:03:27.950 ⇒ 01:03:37.080 Uttam Kumaran: just, like, not, like, I don’t… I don’t know, I think there’s, like… it’s also a time thing, like, I don’t have time to be like, this thing’s wrong, but let me go show you what right looks like.

455 01:03:37.430 ⇒ 01:03:41.410 Uttam Kumaran: And then you do the next one tomorrow, and then we fix this, and we go.

456 01:03:41.690 ⇒ 01:03:44.659 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, I’ll show you what Wright looks like, I’ll talk to you in, like, a week and a half.

457 01:03:47.390 ⇒ 01:04:01.020 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I mean, like, like, Robert, the kinds of things that get, you know, teams in trouble is when you say something like, hey, I noticed something, like, we need to talk for 5-10 minutes.

458 01:04:01.080 ⇒ 01:04:08.010 Clarence Stone: Right, and if the response is, we can set up a meeting tomorrow at noon, we’ve already missed the vote.

459 01:04:09.260 ⇒ 01:04:09.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

460 01:04:10.570 ⇒ 01:04:12.490 Uttam Kumaran: But this group is not like that.

461 01:04:12.590 ⇒ 01:04:13.120 Uttam Kumaran: Like…

462 01:04:13.120 ⇒ 01:04:14.960 Clarence Stone: I’m not talking about this group.

463 01:04:14.960 ⇒ 01:04:18.429 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I didn’t say that, but I want us to identify that, like.

464 01:04:18.830 ⇒ 01:04:22.609 Uttam Kumaran: This group is not like that. There’s a reason you’re all in the meeting, but, like.

465 01:04:25.870 ⇒ 01:04:28.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, yeah.

466 01:04:29.430 ⇒ 01:04:36.609 Robert Tseng: Well, Chris, you don’t know, but I’m, like, I’m trying to assess if we should do, like, a hybrid office thing and force everyone in the U.S. to.

467 01:04:36.610 ⇒ 01:04:37.220 Clarence Stone: Oh, oh,

468 01:04:37.220 ⇒ 01:04:37.700 Robert Tseng: in Austin.

469 01:04:37.700 ⇒ 01:04:38.179 Clarence Stone: It’s awesome.

470 01:04:38.180 ⇒ 01:04:45.169 Robert Tseng: or wherever. So, I kind of feel like it’s a cultural thing that you’ll pick up if you’re just in office, like.

471 01:04:45.170 ⇒ 01:04:45.580 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I also

472 01:04:46.110 ⇒ 01:04:54.730 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if we can afford to do… I don’t know if we can afford to do the 3-month ramp up to a thing, and I think being in office maybe cuts that in 14 days, and like…

473 01:04:54.890 ⇒ 01:05:00.519 Uttam Kumaran: I… I think about that’s my… that’s the trade-off. I can’t afford… to do, like.

474 01:05:00.720 ⇒ 01:05:07.339 Uttam Kumaran: the EY-style thing. I don’t think we can’t afford the time or, like, the money, because everybody has to come in and deliver on work.

475 01:05:07.490 ⇒ 01:05:10.859 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, maybe, like, an in-person thing, or we talked about, like.

476 01:05:11.130 ⇒ 01:05:21.480 Uttam Kumaran: during, like, during their first month, like, oh, like, I talked to Jonathan, he was like, yeah, at… at Booze or whatever, like, they fly you on your first month to, like.

477 01:05:21.900 ⇒ 01:05:26.419 Uttam Kumaran: Go meet, like, a bunch of people, and then… and then you can go back and work remote, or whatever, and like…

478 01:05:26.640 ⇒ 01:05:28.819 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe there’s, like, some middle ground that we find.

479 01:05:28.820 ⇒ 01:05:29.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

480 01:05:29.690 ⇒ 01:05:30.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

481 01:05:30.790 ⇒ 01:05:33.549 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, Clarence, we’re thinking about, like, hybrid LA,

482 01:05:34.740 ⇒ 01:05:36.629 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, not me, but, like… I agree.

483 01:05:36.630 ⇒ 01:05:48.969 Clarence Stone: Yep, you’ll never hear me complaining. I think in-person’s just always easier, because, you know, you’re passing by somebody’s desk, you can, like, have that quick chat, and it’s gonna matter. So,

484 01:05:49.220 ⇒ 01:05:53.999 Clarence Stone: It’s just me saying, like, I, you know, like, it’s possible remote, you know?

485 01:05:54.000 ⇒ 01:05:55.130 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I think that’s…

486 01:05:55.130 ⇒ 01:05:55.560 Clarence Stone: That’s good.

487 01:05:55.560 ⇒ 01:05:56.660 Robert Tseng: perspective, too.

488 01:05:56.840 ⇒ 01:06:06.429 Robert Tseng: I mean, I would argue that you were already quite disciplined coming out of it, so you knew how to improve yourself. Like, I feel like, you know, you’re a unicorn in the remote world.

489 01:06:06.460 ⇒ 01:06:24.200 Robert Tseng: I personally have not… I mean, I started my tech career in remote jobs, and I was straight chillin’, you know, like, I just… I knew nobody was working around me, so I just, like, did the thing. But as soon as we went in office, then, like, yeah, I really got my butt kicked for, like, the first

490 01:06:24.200 ⇒ 01:06:37.840 Robert Tseng: 6 months, like, you know, I knew I wasn’t at the level of the guy next to me, and my manager was, like, right there as well, so I just, like, I had to lock in and just put in the work to get better, so…

491 01:06:38.470 ⇒ 01:06:47.210 Clarence Stone: Yeah, you won’t hear me, countering that at all. I believe in person is measurably better, but yeah, I mean, there’s cost related to it, like UTAM says. Yeah.

492 01:06:47.650 ⇒ 01:06:51.160 Uttam Kumaran: But, dude, Clarence, some people are willing to relocate, like…

493 01:06:51.640 ⇒ 01:06:53.939 Uttam Kumaran: Kayla’s been asking every single person.

494 01:06:54.540 ⇒ 01:06:57.769 Uttam Kumaran: I haven’t put pressure on it, but, like, I could.

495 01:06:58.480 ⇒ 01:07:01.769 Clarence Stone: There is no better rental market than the Austin rental market today.

496 01:07:01.770 ⇒ 01:07:08.160 Uttam Kumaran: I know, and then I said… I said there’s a fat chance you’d… you’d move, but you’re only an hour away, it’s not a bad commute.

497 01:07:08.430 ⇒ 01:07:09.400 Uttam Kumaran: And.

498 01:07:09.400 ⇒ 01:07:14.090 Clarence Stone: You’re never gonna get me out of here. I pay so little for this house.

499 01:07:14.090 ⇒ 01:07:16.320 Uttam Kumaran: Part-time. You’re gonna get a condo here.

500 01:07:17.160 ⇒ 01:07:18.189 Clarence Stone: We’ll see.

501 01:07:18.500 ⇒ 01:07:20.000 Uttam Kumaran: Sadly, there it is.

502 01:07:21.790 ⇒ 01:07:25.820 Clarence Stone: I’m already looking at a commercial building that’s, like, 20 minutes away from my house.

503 01:07:25.820 ⇒ 01:07:27.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude, levy rent from it, for office.

504 01:07:27.890 ⇒ 01:07:29.410 Clarence Stone: Yeah, absolutely! Come on!

505 01:07:31.300 ⇒ 01:07:36.449 Robert Tseng: Harry’s gonna be, like, the unknown landlord of, like, all the buildings in San Antonio.

506 01:07:38.230 ⇒ 01:07:41.189 Clarence Stone: I do love seeing real estate. It is always.

507 01:07:41.190 ⇒ 01:07:44.860 Robert Tseng: Did you know that Main Street is owned by a Burmese dude?

508 01:07:46.550 ⇒ 01:07:49.219 Robert Tseng: One of those facts 30 years from now?

509 01:07:49.220 ⇒ 01:07:50.879 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

510 01:07:50.880 ⇒ 01:07:54.770 Clarence Stone: It would be nice to own a tiny little town in Texas.

511 01:07:55.380 ⇒ 01:07:59.179 Robert Tseng: No, San Antonio’s not tiny at all, no straight, I mean, this is funny, yeah.

512 01:07:59.860 ⇒ 01:08:02.450 Robert Tseng: I bet you. Okay, well…

513 01:08:02.450 ⇒ 01:08:03.100 Clarence Stone: Yeah.

514 01:08:04.370 ⇒ 01:08:07.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah, good to think about.

515 01:08:10.750 ⇒ 01:08:14.839 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel like decisions-wise, like, I’ll connect you guys with Jonathan.

516 01:08:15.020 ⇒ 01:08:19.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Just have a chat with this sort of thing in mind. Happy to talk to Garrett.

517 01:08:20.140 ⇒ 01:08:21.460 Uttam Kumaran: Same thing in mind.

518 01:08:22.109 ⇒ 01:08:22.709 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

519 01:08:23.910 ⇒ 01:08:24.790 Uttam Kumaran: and…

520 01:08:25.649 ⇒ 01:08:33.029 Robert Tseng: they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum. I’m just trying to assess, like, where on the spectrum they, like, where do we actually want to be on the spectrum?

521 01:08:33.510 ⇒ 01:08:34.109 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

522 01:08:34.710 ⇒ 01:08:35.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

523 01:08:39.950 ⇒ 01:08:42.650 Robert Tseng: Garrett is, like, idealistic.

524 01:08:42.840 ⇒ 01:08:44.909 Robert Tseng: And… but he, like, said it in a way.

525 01:08:44.910 ⇒ 01:08:47.530 Uttam Kumaran: What does that, what does that, what does that mean? I don’t know, what does that mean?

526 01:08:48.540 ⇒ 01:08:49.300 Robert Tseng: like…

527 01:08:49.439 ⇒ 01:08:55.090 Robert Tseng: I was, like, unsure, are you, like, naive, or are you, like, has this stuff proven to be true?

528 01:08:55.090 ⇒ 01:08:58.230 Uttam Kumaran: But give me an example, I don’t get it, what does that mean?

529 01:08:58.670 ⇒ 01:09:07.250 Robert Tseng: Okay, okay, well, so, like, because I asked him, like, how he… his presentation was the best presentation I’ve seen so far. Like, I asked him kind of how he put it to.

530 01:09:07.250 ⇒ 01:09:10.750 Uttam Kumaran: Why are you hating on him? What are you talking about?

531 01:09:11.580 ⇒ 01:09:13.350 Robert Tseng: Wait, wait, why am I hitting on it?

532 01:09:13.350 ⇒ 01:09:16.950 Uttam Kumaran: You’re like, this is too perfect.

533 01:09:17.590 ⇒ 01:09:19.600 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I’m just joking, I’m just joking.

534 01:09:19.609 ⇒ 01:09:29.869 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I was like, dude, did this take you, like, two weeks, or, like, what’d you do? He’s like, no, I just, like, many iterate… like, a couple iterations over 2 or 3 days, and, like, that’s his… that was… that was his… that’s his thing. He’s like.

535 01:09:29.869 ⇒ 01:09:45.549 Robert Tseng: I don’t expect the people that I’m trying to enforce things with to, like, get on the first try, but, like, he’s all about, like, trying to create fast feedback loops and do multiple iterations. And that’s his attitude for, like, how he does AI adoption, his workflow, too. I think… I thought that was interesting, because, like, I feel like…

536 01:09:45.549 ⇒ 01:09:47.279 Robert Tseng: At least for me, like.

537 01:09:47.279 ⇒ 01:09:56.819 Robert Tseng: I get frustrated when I get anything from the team that within… within one or two, like, looks, I’m like, this is, like, no… this is nowhere near it, but, like.

538 01:09:56.959 ⇒ 01:10:16.889 Robert Tseng: maybe… if he… maybe he could lead me to believe that he can actually get people to go through iterations faster, and that might get them closer to kind of, like, a ready state for us to kind of work with. So, but yeah, that’s why that… that was, like, a little bit unsettling for me, but it was, like, interesting that he… he really believes that, so…

539 01:10:16.929 ⇒ 01:10:25.539 Robert Tseng: Rather than, like, hammering the standard in-home and making people’s, like, first shot to be, like, at where it needs to be. He’s more like.

540 01:10:25.919 ⇒ 01:10:32.639 Robert Tseng: I can enforce things in a way that gets people to, like, iterate quickly enough to get there. I don’t… I don’t know if it’s true, but I just… yeah.

541 01:10:32.640 ⇒ 01:10:38.650 Uttam Kumaran: But he was interested… More in, like, running a team, or was he interested in, like.

542 01:10:38.820 ⇒ 01:10:41.389 Uttam Kumaran: Leading a client, or, like, what do you think?

543 01:10:42.600 ⇒ 01:10:57.469 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I mean, I think I… even without this doc that you flashed, like, I… we already had talked about it, like, I was like, look, if you come in, like, we don’t need you to actually do the PM work for everybody, we already have… be on the team, and, like, if we need to, we can staff

544 01:10:57.470 ⇒ 01:11:12.699 Robert Tseng: more people under you. We need somebody who can really set the PM standards and really, kind of, and enforce it. Like, how would you enforce it? And that was his response. It wasn’t so much like, you know, build a PM Bible and start beating it over people, kind of, like.

545 01:11:12.700 ⇒ 01:11:13.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.

546 01:11:13.130 ⇒ 01:11:17.439 Robert Tseng: Like, I don’t think that’s his… that’s his approach. But as far as, like, account-wise.

547 01:11:17.450 ⇒ 01:11:34.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I don’t think he has, like… he didn’t come to me with, like, I have a book of business that I want to sell to. He’s like, I would like to grow in that, but, like, that’s… but I also think his personality is… he’s… I mean, maybe he’s just a bit more soft-spoken, but, like, I don’t… I don’t see him as, like, a…

548 01:11:35.070 ⇒ 01:11:36.299 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m, like, kind of.

549 01:11:36.300 ⇒ 01:11:37.039 Uttam Kumaran: We’re carrying him, too.

550 01:11:37.040 ⇒ 01:11:50.640 Robert Tseng: like, to you, or Greg, or whatever. I don’t see him having that… that personality, so I don’t know, like, I… but it was something that he was… he’s interested in when I pitched him on this, like, really what we’re looking for is a hybrid of the PM and the account manager.

551 01:11:51.300 ⇒ 01:11:52.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

552 01:11:55.760 ⇒ 01:11:57.170 Uttam Kumaran: Interesting. Okay.

553 01:11:58.490 ⇒ 01:11:59.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

554 01:12:00.070 ⇒ 01:12:02.819 Kaela Gallagher: So, Tom, I think he has time with you on…

555 01:12:02.820 ⇒ 01:12:03.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, he does.

556 01:12:03.650 ⇒ 01:12:05.290 Kaela Gallagher: Tuesday, yeah, okay.

557 01:12:08.360 ⇒ 01:12:08.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

558 01:12:20.480 ⇒ 01:12:30.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah, all the other engineers, like, build, like, 30 slide decks. He gave me 6 slides, and, like, each one’s very, like, power… like, it’s powerful. You know, it’s like, that’s what you would need, like, we’re not…

559 01:12:30.980 ⇒ 01:12:35.150 Robert Tseng: Like, the engine… the other technical people that we get, like.

560 01:12:35.220 ⇒ 01:12:52.339 Robert Tseng: they just, like, rip AI and make every cut of graph and segment they can come up with, and it’s, like, interesting. It’s like, wait, this is thorough. I don’t know how much of this you actually understand, but, like, yeah, I don’t really think we’d ever send a 30 slide deck on a small exercise like that.

561 01:12:54.580 ⇒ 01:12:58.290 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m wondering why… I’m wondering if you should just take him on your team?

562 01:13:00.590 ⇒ 01:13:01.760 Uttam Kumaran: Anyways…

563 01:13:05.100 ⇒ 01:13:05.960 Uttam Kumaran: like…

564 01:13:09.400 ⇒ 01:13:19.480 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, dude, I’m… like, the DBT and data engine stuff, like, really gonna… it’s gonna be so quick. Like, we’re gonna start making quick moves on a lot of that work. It’s gonna be all about strategy.

565 01:13:20.220 ⇒ 01:13:20.990 Uttam Kumaran: like…

566 01:13:21.140 ⇒ 01:13:26.820 Uttam Kumaran: I guess maybe see if you, like, if you pattern match to any active things that we’re doing now that he can take, like…

567 01:13:27.900 ⇒ 01:13:28.920 Uttam Kumaran: It feels like he…

568 01:13:28.920 ⇒ 01:13:34.300 Robert Tseng: He needs to be paired with an architect, is what he’s… that’s everything in his career, any, like, large-scale enterprise.

569 01:13:34.300 ⇒ 01:13:34.620 Uttam Kumaran: That’s alright.

570 01:13:34.620 ⇒ 01:13:35.190 Robert Tseng: she’s…

571 01:13:35.190 ⇒ 01:13:35.650 Kaela Gallagher: All of our…

572 01:13:35.650 ⇒ 01:13:37.150 Robert Tseng: It’s always been paired with, like.

573 01:13:37.150 ⇒ 01:13:39.090 Uttam Kumaran: OH is on all of that, and if…

574 01:13:39.090 ⇒ 01:13:39.689 Robert Tseng: Something, yeah.

575 01:13:39.690 ⇒ 01:13:44.069 Uttam Kumaran: Oasis and all that, and dude, I’ll do the architect, like, literally eyes closed.

576 01:13:44.610 ⇒ 01:13:45.120 Kaela Gallagher: I feel like…

577 01:13:45.120 ⇒ 01:13:45.880 Uttam Kumaran: clients.

578 01:13:46.220 ⇒ 01:14:02.240 Kaela Gallagher: I feel like him and Awash would get along pretty well. I’ve known Garrett for, like, almost 2 years now, and when I placed him at Disney, he was doing, like, a big data project for them, but it was, like, him and an architect, and that was… Yeah. He had that pairing.

579 01:14:03.230 ⇒ 01:14:21.679 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so he knows our world, he knows the language, like, I think he could hold his own, like, he could take a… he could take a, like, a VP-level facing, like, a conversation. I don’t know how much he can really, like, expand a service line on his own, but if he can communicate well enough with our architects, and, like, kind of take what they say and build out these, like.

580 01:14:21.840 ⇒ 01:14:25.180 Robert Tseng: Like, a really, you know, clean, like.

581 01:14:25.930 ⇒ 01:14:34.969 Robert Tseng: presentation and, like, the communication is good, then I think it could work, but yeah, it was… yeah, well, anyway, I’m just kind of filling in some of the details there.

582 01:14:35.950 ⇒ 01:14:44.259 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I mean, guys, like, I can do, like, I would love to just talk data architecture. Like, CTA, I’m, like, he could just come in and run CTA,

583 01:14:45.130 ⇒ 01:14:49.779 Uttam Kumaran: like, pretty easily. He could come in and run default pretty easily.

584 01:14:50.460 ⇒ 01:14:51.170 Uttam Kumaran: like…

585 01:14:51.590 ⇒ 01:14:57.020 Uttam Kumaran: the work we’re doing for them, for both him and Default are really easy. The hard part is, like.

586 01:14:57.450 ⇒ 01:14:58.740 Uttam Kumaran: Someone, like…

587 01:14:58.960 ⇒ 01:15:04.260 Uttam Kumaran: someone needs to really be thinking about what is the client thinking around, how can I go above and beyond every day?

588 01:15:06.340 ⇒ 01:15:11.469 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I could just be the architect, and then Awash is also a great architect. Awish is awesome.

589 01:15:11.800 ⇒ 01:15:16.270 Uttam Kumaran: You know, he’s like, he’s able to be that great architect partner and also do the work.

590 01:15:17.260 ⇒ 01:15:26.189 Uttam Kumaran: So, dude, I’m even… I’m just looking for people that can run these accounts, like, I… I have a feeling Greg’s gonna drop the ball, so I’m prepared to take…

591 01:15:26.980 ⇒ 01:15:29.190 Uttam Kumaran: I’m prepared to basically take default.

592 01:15:29.780 ⇒ 01:15:32.860 Uttam Kumaran: Nobody’s helping me on CTA, and that’s our biggest client.

593 01:15:33.980 ⇒ 01:15:35.110 Uttam Kumaran: And… but, like.

594 01:15:35.750 ⇒ 01:15:43.529 Uttam Kumaran: We need someone that’s kind of like, yeah, kind of like me, like, someone who’s a little bit nerdy about data, like, wants really to win this thing, has… comes with ideas.

595 01:15:43.770 ⇒ 01:15:46.450 Uttam Kumaran: The data work is super easy, that we’re doing.

596 01:15:47.570 ⇒ 01:15:51.450 Uttam Kumaran: So, maybe I’ll talk to him and kind of see what the… what the perspective is.

597 01:15:52.060 ⇒ 01:15:52.740 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, yeah.

598 01:15:52.740 ⇒ 01:15:55.970 Uttam Kumaran: I… I feel like… Even if he doesn’t… even if…

599 01:15:56.350 ⇒ 01:15:58.769 Uttam Kumaran: Jonathan gets this role, it doesn’t mean, like…

600 01:15:59.040 ⇒ 01:16:01.540 Uttam Kumaran: Just want to have people that are… that are awesome.

601 01:16:02.140 ⇒ 01:16:12.239 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we want to have people that are awesome at whatever the heck they’re doing, or, like, really, really stand out. Like, you… what you said, Robert, is that he’s stand out, and I’m like, okay, that’s, like, I kind of heard enough.

602 01:16:13.120 ⇒ 01:16:13.610 Kaela Gallagher: I might…

603 01:16:13.610 ⇒ 01:16:15.960 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we should just have him, if he’s really stand out.

604 01:16:16.260 ⇒ 01:16:17.300 Uttam Kumaran: Like… Hmm.

605 01:16:17.410 ⇒ 01:16:20.390 Uttam Kumaran: Whether he’s CSO or SL or whatever, like, I don’t know.

606 01:16:20.910 ⇒ 01:16:36.959 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, let us know what you think on Monday or Tuesday. I called him, like, last week, I think, and he didn’t have anything in finals, so I think we could move quickly, and he would move quickly, too. So, yeah, just let me know what you think.

607 01:16:36.960 ⇒ 01:16:53.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I also have very… I also think that Clarence has a relationship with… with Jonathan, you have a relationship… like, that’s also positives. Like, because you guys don’t really… you guys won’t put forth people that you don’t really believe in. So, like, these are all, like, good things. I think if we find great people.

608 01:16:53.970 ⇒ 01:16:59.170 Uttam Kumaran: We put them in, and what we’re doing today will be different in 6 months, and they’ll… they’ll swim, you know?

609 01:16:59.170 ⇒ 01:17:00.510 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

610 01:17:00.870 ⇒ 01:17:01.710 Uttam Kumaran: So…

611 01:17:03.780 ⇒ 01:17:10.959 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ll talk to him and see, but, like, I don’t know, even the way you described, like, he actually came in and did the thing in a different way, and, like.

612 01:17:11.640 ⇒ 01:17:30.160 Uttam Kumaran: the idealism and stuff, like, I’m just glad people have a perspective. If he has a perspective, I’m happy. Like, because then we can argue, and we can arrive at something better than where we are now. So that’s fine. Like, that’s what I’m saying, like, I need people that are, like, saying one thing I’m saying another thing, I’m like, okay, cool, like, let’s see what, like, who’s right about, like…

613 01:17:30.400 ⇒ 01:17:42.739 Uttam Kumaran: Instead, it’s a lot of, like, I’m talking, and then, you know, that’s why I think, Kayla, you bring her perspective, Claire, everybody here brings a good perspective, and, like, that’s what I think we need more of. Like, Jasmine, I can tell, is bringing a perspective.

614 01:17:43.030 ⇒ 01:17:51.779 Uttam Kumaran: Like, even today, she’s like, I log out at 6. I’m like, yeah, but say the last part. Say the part where you do everything right, and then you log out at 6. Like, told me, like, I’m logging out at 6.

615 01:17:52.210 ⇒ 01:17:59.919 Uttam Kumaran: Because I want… I want life stability. I said, yeah, but, like, say the part, say the part about brushing your work during those hours.

616 01:17:59.920 ⇒ 01:18:01.119 Kaela Gallagher: Oh my gosh!

617 01:18:01.250 ⇒ 01:18:02.409 Kaela Gallagher: And then she’s… I mean, I don’t.

618 01:18:02.410 ⇒ 01:18:15.519 Uttam Kumaran: Kayla was like, Kayla was like, we tell people they have to work at 8 to 5, and I’m like, I know, I can tell you’re thinking about that. And I’m like, yes, but also say the part about, like, you can walk off whatever, just do your job really well.

619 01:18:15.520 ⇒ 01:18:21.880 Kaela Gallagher: Guys, my people brain was really hurting during that, because she.

620 01:18:21.880 ⇒ 01:18:22.280 Uttam Kumaran: I know.

621 01:18:22.280 ⇒ 01:18:28.860 Kaela Gallagher: said something else about, like, refusing to talk to people on her team, and I was like, oh no, oh no!

622 01:18:28.860 ⇒ 01:18:33.869 Uttam Kumaran: I know, I know, but this is also where I’m like, I would rather have that.

623 01:18:33.870 ⇒ 01:18:35.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah, she’s a little bit.

624 01:18:35.800 ⇒ 01:18:40.979 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t mind that, I don’t mind that, because that’s gonna lead to conflict, like, good, healthy conflict.

625 01:18:41.210 ⇒ 01:18:50.159 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s what we need. That’s what I like about Amber, too. Like, Amber… Amber does… is not… does not let up when she feels a perspective. That’s great, like, we need that.

626 01:18:50.500 ⇒ 01:18:55.030 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, I… we don’t want more peop… we’d, like, so I don’t know, I feel like…

627 01:18:55.190 ⇒ 01:18:57.780 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how I feel, you know, so I’m okay with that.

628 01:18:58.160 ⇒ 01:19:12.050 Uttam Kumaran: Because, you know, all… it’s like, there’s no policy decisions, but I like that she has a perspective, but guess what? I know she… you know the reason why she’s like, I only lock up 6? Because she’s probably… she’s a workaholic, like all a lot of us. Like, she wants… she could… she’ll easily start working until 9.

629 01:19:12.390 ⇒ 01:19:13.930 Uttam Kumaran: like… Yeah.

630 01:19:14.570 ⇒ 01:19:22.949 Uttam Kumaran: People who have rules like that, it’s because you’re not good at balance. You tend to work a lot, you know?

631 01:19:23.850 ⇒ 01:19:30.129 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like when I called Jarrell today, Robert, I’m like, okay, I just want to see, like, whether this guy’s actually, like, really cares about

632 01:19:30.390 ⇒ 01:19:34.529 Uttam Kumaran: this thing, and it seems like he’s like, dude, I’m, like, vibe coding, like, during the day for free.

633 01:19:34.740 ⇒ 01:19:35.920 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, okay.

634 01:19:36.690 ⇒ 01:19:40.260 Robert Tseng: Dude, I’m… yeah, he’s… he’s just… he’s just hustling. I… he…

635 01:19:40.260 ⇒ 01:19:40.760 Kaela Gallagher: I appreciate it.

636 01:19:40.760 ⇒ 01:19:46.930 Robert Tseng: He’s not… he has no reason to say no to us right now. But yeah, Jarrell’s gonna start on Monday, so we need to get the…

637 01:19:47.070 ⇒ 01:19:47.889 Robert Tseng: the stuff.

638 01:19:47.890 ⇒ 01:19:48.400 Kaela Gallagher: Wait!

639 01:19:49.430 ⇒ 01:19:49.870 Kaela Gallagher: Thanks!

640 01:19:51.290 ⇒ 01:19:52.509 Robert Tseng: We went around you for that.

641 01:19:52.510 ⇒ 01:19:54.650 Uttam Kumaran: No, it just happened, like, in the last…

642 01:19:54.650 ⇒ 01:19:55.480 Robert Tseng: design.

643 01:19:55.730 ⇒ 01:19:57.269 Kaela Gallagher: Oh my gosh!

644 01:19:57.270 ⇒ 01:20:01.960 Uttam Kumaran: But he’s… but he’s gonna start, like… I don’t… I don’t think we need to sign any, like.

645 01:20:02.120 ⇒ 01:20:05.550 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I don’t know, Robert, you should just think about what to give him, and you just… but do.

646 01:20:05.550 ⇒ 01:20:14.339 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’ll be pretty informal, there’s no salary or whatever. He’s gonna be a commission-only kind of person, like, we’ll give him something a little… I mean, just get him the NDA for now, give him, like, the…

647 01:20:14.340 ⇒ 01:20:14.710 Kaela Gallagher: Good.

648 01:20:14.710 ⇒ 01:20:16.080 Robert Tseng: his access, and…

649 01:20:16.080 ⇒ 01:20:16.600 Kaela Gallagher: and stuff.

650 01:20:16.600 ⇒ 01:20:21.179 Robert Tseng: I think I’ve worked with him before, it’s okay, he doesn’t need to have all this stuff ironed out.

651 01:20:21.800 ⇒ 01:20:22.350 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

652 01:20:22.350 ⇒ 01:20:32.399 Robert Tseng: I know he will be like, he wants to feel like he can deliver, and then he will… then we can talk about what to offer him. But for now, he’s just like, yeah, just…

653 01:20:32.710 ⇒ 01:20:39.970 Robert Tseng: just let me try to sell. And if he’s getting momentum, then, yeah, you know, it’ll be fine.

654 01:20:40.160 ⇒ 01:20:51.479 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Also, speaking of selling, I met a referral from Pranav today, who does sales for Wayfair, and, like, vibe codes in his free time. Thought he was a really.

655 01:20:51.480 ⇒ 01:20:57.870 Robert Tseng: He sells for Wayfair, like, he… like, he sells Wayfair furniture to businesses, or, like, what part of the sales… sales side?

656 01:20:57.870 ⇒ 01:20:59.700 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sure they have Enterprise Motion to outfit.

657 01:20:59.700 ⇒ 01:21:00.300 Kaela Gallagher: analysis is…

658 01:21:00.300 ⇒ 01:21:01.169 Uttam Kumaran: And stuff, you know?

659 01:21:01.370 ⇒ 01:21:02.550 Robert Tseng: I love that.

660 01:21:02.870 ⇒ 01:21:04.450 Robert Tseng: Selling to WeWork?

661 01:21:04.450 ⇒ 01:21:08.420 Kaela Gallagher: doing, suppliers. He was working with suppliers.

662 01:21:08.420 ⇒ 01:21:09.370 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice.

663 01:21:09.370 ⇒ 01:21:16.820 Kaela Gallagher: I thought he had a background. Yeah, I’m waiting on his resume, but when I get it, I’ll send it to you, too.

664 01:21:17.710 ⇒ 01:21:18.450 Robert Tseng: Okay.

665 01:21:20.430 ⇒ 01:21:21.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

666 01:21:25.400 ⇒ 01:21:30.530 Kaela Gallagher: Anyway, Jarrell’s hilarious, I’m at the happy hour, so… excited. Yeah.

667 01:21:33.510 ⇒ 01:21:37.540 Robert Tseng: It’s just, like, a wild card that will have no shame in just, like, pitching.

668 01:21:37.540 ⇒ 01:21:37.930 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

669 01:21:37.930 ⇒ 01:21:43.789 Robert Tseng: And we just kind of need a little bit of that craziness on the go-to-market side. I’ll just let him

670 01:21:44.190 ⇒ 01:21:48.370 Robert Tseng: let him… let him do his thing, I guess.

671 01:21:48.370 ⇒ 01:21:51.129 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah. How many hours a week is he gonna work?

672 01:21:51.950 ⇒ 01:21:57.190 Robert Tseng: I think he’s purely off vibes. If he’s liking it, he’ll work as much as.

673 01:21:57.190 ⇒ 01:21:57.530 Kaela Gallagher: See what?

674 01:21:57.530 ⇒ 01:21:59.250 Robert Tseng: possibly can, but if.

675 01:21:59.250 ⇒ 01:21:59.600 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

676 01:21:59.600 ⇒ 01:22:05.399 Robert Tseng: If it’s, like, if he’s stalling out, then I’ll just call him out for it. That’s kind of basically what happened last time I worked with him.

677 01:22:06.310 ⇒ 01:22:07.000 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

678 01:22:07.000 ⇒ 01:22:11.160 Robert Tseng: But in the beginning, I’m sure he’ll just… he’ll, he’ll do what he can, yeah.

679 01:22:11.160 ⇒ 01:22:15.020 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, I’ll invite him to our next LA co-working session.

680 01:22:15.020 ⇒ 01:22:22.409 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you should. Although, don’t let him take up too much time talking, because otherwise he’ll just not let you guys work.

681 01:22:24.170 ⇒ 01:22:25.390 Kaela Gallagher: That’s hilarious.

682 01:22:26.020 ⇒ 01:22:26.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

683 01:22:26.440 ⇒ 01:22:36.609 Kaela Gallagher: I guess since we’re talking about people updates, I wanted to also ask about Miranda for the AIPM rule. Are we still thinking about that?

684 01:22:41.030 ⇒ 01:22:47.259 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, yeah, I’ve sort of, like… I mean, my…

685 01:22:49.490 ⇒ 01:22:55.850 Uttam Kumaran: because she hasn’t been a product manager before, I’m wondering if we’re just bringing someone else that’s, like.

686 01:22:55.960 ⇒ 01:22:57.620 Uttam Kumaran: Similar to Pranav.

687 01:22:57.890 ⇒ 01:23:01.820 Uttam Kumaran: And that, yes, I think we can teach them a lot, But…

688 01:23:02.220 ⇒ 01:23:05.440 Uttam Kumaran: It would be more of, like, us having to craft that.

689 01:23:06.650 ⇒ 01:23:07.540 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.

690 01:23:07.540 ⇒ 01:23:10.140 Uttam Kumaran: I think, Robert, you have Jor-El, like…

691 01:23:13.160 ⇒ 01:23:20.220 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I’m not… you kinda… I don’t feel like you need anything on G… like, what are you gonna need on… go tomorrow? He’s gonna build whatever you need now, I’ll give him the key.

692 01:23:20.220 ⇒ 01:23:23.920 Robert Tseng: Oh yeah, they don’t… I would prefer him over Miranda at this point.

693 01:23:23.920 ⇒ 01:23:28.819 Uttam Kumaran: Then on the product management side, on the AI team, then I think, like.

694 01:23:32.570 ⇒ 01:23:34.599 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I… if…

695 01:23:35.180 ⇒ 01:23:47.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s tough, like, product management is a skill, like, it’s hard to learn, and so if you haven’t done product management, but you’re just interested in product management, like, that’s not convincing enough. I hate that we strung her along, but we’re figuring out, like, this rule.

696 01:23:48.060 ⇒ 01:23:53.240 Uttam Kumaran: I, I don’t know, I don’t know what your gut instinct, Robert, is, like…

697 01:23:57.050 ⇒ 01:23:57.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

698 01:23:58.490 ⇒ 01:24:05.429 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I mean, like, as far as immediate need, it was like, okay, we need AIPM that basically pairs with Pranav, and…

699 01:24:05.870 ⇒ 01:24:17.490 Robert Tseng: like, he’s kind of wild card to me still. I feel like if I’m there on him with Eden, like, I could probably work with him. But, like, if we throw Miranda into the mix, and it’s, like, him Miranda with…

700 01:24:17.570 ⇒ 01:24:29.319 Robert Tseng: with Eden, I don’t… I would… I’m a little… I’m nervous, because it’s two wild cards, in… on a new client. So unless there’s, like, an easier way to ramp her into it, like…

701 01:24:29.560 ⇒ 01:24:41.879 Robert Tseng: I’m not… I forgot what her timeline was, so she had other offers, possibly. Like, I don’t know if she was open to, like, a part-time… like, I mean, my gut is, like, she needs to start part-time AIPM like we have with Gabe.

702 01:24:44.030 ⇒ 01:24:44.920 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

703 01:24:45.200 ⇒ 01:24:48.089 Kaela Gallagher: So, last time I gave her a ring.

704 01:24:48.290 ⇒ 01:25:06.220 Kaela Gallagher: I think was last week, and she said that she had two other interviews going on, two other roles she was exploring, but I don’t think either were in final stages, and she’s not employed currently. So I’m sure she could be open to something part-time?

705 01:25:06.520 ⇒ 01:25:18.469 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so we, we, like, we… we want to… we want to trial her for AIPM, like, but, you know, because she hasn’t had experience before, we kind of, we need to… we need to structure it as a, as a… as a trial, as a trial.

706 01:25:18.630 ⇒ 01:25:26.149 Robert Tseng: Like, I feel like that’s… I feel like that’s fair. Like, she’s a net new role for her. We’re giving her an opportunity to, like, pivot, and we’re taking all the…

707 01:25:26.150 ⇒ 01:25:33.340 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like it’s fair, and yeah, like, if you’re an AI product manager, you immediately get a, like, a 150K resume bump, so I feel like that’s more than fair.

708 01:25:35.080 ⇒ 01:25:35.490 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

709 01:25:35.490 ⇒ 01:25:36.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

710 01:25:36.430 ⇒ 01:25:46.999 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a new role. I also feel the same way. I was interested in hiring a product manager, because I think the stuff we are building on the AI side is more product-y.

711 01:25:47.120 ⇒ 01:25:58.259 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, there is, like, these user journeys, and, like, there’s a UI, and so, compared to the data world, it’s, like, that’s not… it’s not really it. Like, and the strategy team is basically the product team for the data stuff.

712 01:25:59.160 ⇒ 01:26:02.890 Uttam Kumaran: So, if she’s interested, I, I would, like…

713 01:26:03.110 ⇒ 01:26:07.059 Uttam Kumaran: I would just remove the whole go-to-market stuff off of her scope.

714 01:26:07.440 ⇒ 01:26:08.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

715 01:26:08.280 ⇒ 01:26:10.400 Uttam Kumaran: She can product manage for me.

716 01:26:10.730 ⇒ 01:26:16.770 Uttam Kumaran: like, for platform, And then… That way, it’s super, super low risk.

717 01:26:18.480 ⇒ 01:26:18.990 Uttam Kumaran: And…

718 01:26:18.990 ⇒ 01:26:19.500 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

719 01:26:19.500 ⇒ 01:26:21.969 Uttam Kumaran: It just helped me, like, get organized on that.

720 01:26:22.380 ⇒ 01:26:24.870 Uttam Kumaran: Because I don’t want to put on a client on a trial.

721 01:26:26.120 ⇒ 01:26:30.909 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Like, I, yeah, I think that… I think I’d be open to that. Yeah.

722 01:26:31.480 ⇒ 01:26:32.190 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

723 01:26:32.190 ⇒ 01:26:36.960 Robert Tseng: Is there room for her ABC PM, or is, like, Amber still kind of pretty much doing that, right?

724 01:26:37.220 ⇒ 01:26:41.749 Uttam Kumaran: No, there is, but I think, like, I just don’t want to put people on clients if they’re not gonna make it.

725 01:26:42.160 ⇒ 01:26:42.889 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.

726 01:26:43.650 ⇒ 01:26:44.499 Uttam Kumaran: So, if she wants…

727 01:26:44.500 ⇒ 01:26:46.059 Robert Tseng: I’m talking about trying to see, like…

728 01:26:46.400 ⇒ 01:26:47.599 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, oh, there’s totally room.

729 01:26:47.600 ⇒ 01:26:49.500 Robert Tseng: trial her, just do it.

730 01:26:49.500 ⇒ 01:26:50.519 Uttam Kumaran: There’s room in the Eden.

731 01:26:50.520 ⇒ 01:26:53.130 Robert Tseng: 4-week trial, and then she moves into Eden.

732 01:26:53.130 ⇒ 01:26:53.809 Uttam Kumaran: ABC would be…

733 01:26:53.810 ⇒ 01:26:54.930 Robert Tseng: Easier.

734 01:26:54.930 ⇒ 01:26:56.350 Uttam Kumaran: ABC’d be easy for her to take.

735 01:26:56.350 ⇒ 01:26:56.940 Robert Tseng: Okay.

736 01:26:57.450 ⇒ 01:26:58.330 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.

737 01:26:58.620 ⇒ 01:27:18.249 Kaela Gallagher: So, how… what do you guys say about, I’ll adjust her JD, I’ll remove the GTM part, that was where her questions were anyway, so she shouldn’t have anything else lingering. I’ll give her a ring, tell her what we’re thinking, and she can start on the 30th for a 3-week trial. Part-time?

738 01:27:20.010 ⇒ 01:27:20.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

739 01:27:21.150 ⇒ 01:27:34.910 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fair. I mean, Clarence, can I ask you, like, and maybe B, like, if you had access to, like, 60 hours of someone trying to be a product manager, like, what… what is the wish list right now? Like, I have a wish… yeah, what is the wish list?

740 01:27:35.330 ⇒ 01:27:43.280 Clarence Stone: We need to sort out the platform pipelines. There’s a lot of things going on, and we need a coordination point, and that’ll get…

741 01:27:43.600 ⇒ 01:27:52.919 Clarence Stone: you know, some experience with how we build AI and what our tooling is, so that’s a good ramp into being able to manage products for delivery.

742 01:27:56.600 ⇒ 01:27:57.650 Kaela Gallagher: Copy that.

743 01:28:01.260 ⇒ 01:28:13.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I have, like, I have… for example, I’m… by next week, I’m gonna have sort of, like, the list of the… all the products that we have, and, like, kind of how they tie together. I mean, one is there’s, like, clearly a way for her to look at all of that, and…

744 01:28:13.580 ⇒ 01:28:15.520 Uttam Kumaran: Think about, like, adoption.

745 01:28:15.860 ⇒ 01:28:20.869 Uttam Kumaran: like… pair with B and look at, like, how each team is using these things.

746 01:28:21.060 ⇒ 01:28:40.769 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like, again, like, I exactly, like, she can easily, in 3 weeks, do her first user interview, come up with her first product spec, work with Sam and me to do, like, and B, to, like, execute something, present to the team, like, run through this, like, 1PM sprint. More than happy to do that.

747 01:28:41.290 ⇒ 01:28:42.390 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay.

748 01:28:42.390 ⇒ 01:28:45.880 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I think this is where we’re just gonna see, like, it’s gonna be more…

749 01:28:46.460 ⇒ 01:28:53.209 Uttam Kumaran: like, it’s gonna be much more product-manage-y than, like, what we’re currently doing. Like, right now, it’s sort of complete, like.

750 01:28:53.590 ⇒ 01:28:56.829 Uttam Kumaran: just deciding to ship product and, like, whatever, you know, so…

751 01:28:57.140 ⇒ 01:29:02.890 Uttam Kumaran: I can come up with a 3-week scope with deliverables, and then she can present something, and that’ll be a good, like, end-to-end.

752 01:29:03.730 ⇒ 01:29:07.830 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, so maybe we can adjust the dock with that, then.

753 01:29:08.030 ⇒ 01:29:11.270 Kaela Gallagher: The JD.

754 01:29:12.890 ⇒ 01:29:17.889 Kaela Gallagher: Trying to think if there’s any other…

755 01:29:18.320 ⇒ 01:29:21.180 Kaela Gallagher: Updates on my end. Have we heard from Eliza?

756 01:29:22.110 ⇒ 01:29:28.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I got an email from her, I mean, she said she’s still, like, in the hospital, so…

757 01:29:28.730 ⇒ 01:29:29.660 Uttam Kumaran: I…

758 01:29:29.660 ⇒ 01:29:30.360 Rico Rejoso: But true.

759 01:29:31.270 ⇒ 01:29:38.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I don’t know, I mean, I guess my question is, like, Rico, like, are you… what do you need, short-term?

760 01:29:39.610 ⇒ 01:29:43.439 Uttam Kumaran: To manage your stuff.

761 01:29:45.290 ⇒ 01:29:55.139 Rico Rejoso: Actually, I’m creating some commands and skills that will help me out on taking on some of her stuff, since most of her stuff are just documentations and SOP.

762 01:29:55.480 ⇒ 01:30:00.550 Rico Rejoso: And since you follow the braided scheme, I think there’s not much that we’re gonna work on with

763 01:30:00.790 ⇒ 01:30:06.980 Rico Rejoso: I’m putting a pause on the software stuff, for now. Mustafa built it out, but we need to follow up with him.

764 01:30:07.160 ⇒ 01:30:11.790 Rico Rejoso: But I’m putting on a pause for it, since Eliza has more context in that than I have.

765 01:30:12.790 ⇒ 01:30:13.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

766 01:30:16.420 ⇒ 01:30:27.880 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I mean, I think what I would love is, like, I think you’re doing a good job, just keep tracking stuff in linear. I can take a look this weekend, maybe for an hour or two, and see if there’s anything I can also help with.

767 01:30:29.330 ⇒ 01:30:35.290 Uttam Kumaran: But I think, like, my recommendation is just to take the most important operations stuff, and then… like…

768 01:30:36.180 ⇒ 01:30:39.149 Uttam Kumaran: Tell me if you want to drop stuff, other stuff, or whatever.

769 01:30:39.370 ⇒ 01:30:43.580 Uttam Kumaran: Also, with Drell coming, Robert, I feel like maybe, like, he can take on some of the…

770 01:30:44.580 ⇒ 01:30:49.570 Uttam Kumaran: HubSpot shit, or you can tell them to use the HubSpot, like, whatever. I don’t know, I feel like…

771 01:30:51.340 ⇒ 01:30:52.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so…

772 01:30:52.660 ⇒ 01:31:12.059 Robert Tseng: Yeah, one adjustment on the time on the GTM side. I mean, any time we’ve done more than one person at a time has just not gone well, so we’ll just… I’ll work with him to try to ramp him up, and we’ll see what he can actually do. I’d rather him just, like, I give him a list, and he can just go and reach out to those accounts. Like, I’m fine with him just starting with something like that.

773 01:31:12.670 ⇒ 01:31:13.240 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

774 01:31:13.880 ⇒ 01:31:14.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

775 01:31:18.940 ⇒ 01:31:19.740 Robert Tseng: Okay.

776 01:31:20.360 ⇒ 01:31:20.870 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

777 01:31:21.770 ⇒ 01:31:25.859 Robert Tseng: Well, I would like to go run a few miles.

778 01:31:25.860 ⇒ 01:31:31.740 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Can I, Robert, can I sock you some? Like, I’m getting this text from Shivani about this thing, can I…

779 01:31:32.340 ⇒ 01:31:34.250 Uttam Kumaran: Blackeers, handle it.

780 01:31:34.820 ⇒ 01:31:42.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, do you want me to respond? Is this her a spreadsheet thing? I’m kind of like, I’m not touching that unless you pay us, like…

781 01:31:42.520 ⇒ 01:31:47.110 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, here, this is, like, where we’re at. I just… I’ll send you… I sent you in the Zoom chat, like, this is…

782 01:31:47.960 ⇒ 01:31:49.190 Robert Tseng: Oh, man.

783 01:31:49.670 ⇒ 01:32:04.559 Kaela Gallagher: Also, one more quick thing, guys, like, keep me posted on if you need anything with Edvate, or if you have any positive or negative feedback at all, like, he’s on a 3-week trial, so, want to be staying close to him throughout that.

784 01:32:04.900 ⇒ 01:32:15.169 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Yeah, I’m gonna be putting… I think Jasmine is meeting with him, and Amber is too, so they’re gonna be really good barometers, and I’ll… I’ll spend some time with them next week on Monday about element stuff.

785 01:32:15.710 ⇒ 01:32:16.440 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.

786 01:32:16.620 ⇒ 01:32:18.260 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah. He seems like really…

787 01:32:18.260 ⇒ 01:32:18.699 Kaela Gallagher: I’m gonna…

788 01:32:18.700 ⇒ 01:32:19.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

789 01:32:19.680 ⇒ 01:32:35.869 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, he is, he is. I’m gonna get his, like, 10, 30, 60, 90 plan over to him, hopefully, like, today, so, he should have, like, a good sense of direction, too. Like, Jasmine put a lot of, oh, great, wonderful. Yeah.

790 01:32:39.580 ⇒ 01:32:40.470 Kaela Gallagher: Cool?

791 01:32:41.310 ⇒ 01:32:41.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

792 01:32:42.890 ⇒ 01:32:44.590 Kaela Gallagher: Enjoy your run, Robert!

793 01:32:45.030 ⇒ 01:32:45.930 Robert Tseng: Thanks, everyone.

794 01:32:46.570 ⇒ 01:32:50.999 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks. Robert, what do you want… what should I say? What should I say? Everyone else, you guys can drop, no problem.

795 01:32:51.470 ⇒ 01:32:51.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

796 01:32:52.250 ⇒ 01:32:54.770 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, bye guys, happy weekend. Bye.

797 01:32:55.220 ⇒ 01:32:55.760 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

798 01:32:56.510 ⇒ 01:32:56.920 Brylle Girang: Bye-bye.

799 01:32:56.920 ⇒ 01:33:06.260 Robert Tseng: I literally told her this story, like, what the hell? Like, it’s like a month later, and we’re saying the same thing. Why didn’t we say, like, we were…

800 01:33:06.410 ⇒ 01:33:09.970 Robert Tseng: This is… she’s finally, like, clicking that this was the whole pilot thing.

801 01:33:09.970 ⇒ 01:33:14.650 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s just her boss… her boss, like, sort of sucks. Like, this guy sucks. Like, he just…

802 01:33:14.840 ⇒ 01:33:15.560 Uttam Kumaran: He’s not…

803 01:33:15.560 ⇒ 01:33:25.299 Robert Tseng: Yeah, what the hell is this feedback? It’s, like, so stupid. It’s like, this made me feel, like, antsy. Well, no shit, like, we went and staffed, like, we…

804 01:33:25.440 ⇒ 01:33:39.099 Robert Tseng: it’s like, you… you get to work with us, and, like, we have to… we’re taking on all the risk of absorbing all of this, like, headcount. Of course I’m gonna put pressure on you. Like, you didn’t have to do any recruiting, we literally gave you a team on a silver platter.

805 01:33:41.170 ⇒ 01:33:41.530 Uttam Kumaran: I mean.

806 01:33:41.530 ⇒ 01:33:43.630 Robert Tseng: I mean, obviously we’re not gonna say that to her, I’m just reacting.

807 01:33:43.630 ⇒ 01:33:48.509 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, but, like, I can switch… I can switch my tone to be, like, I’m…

808 01:33:49.050 ⇒ 01:33:53.769 Uttam Kumaran: I’m out of ideas. I feel like maybe he doesn’t want us to work on this project.

809 01:33:54.550 ⇒ 01:34:02.279 Uttam Kumaran: or doesn’t want the pace that we outlined, like, what should I… or should I say, like, should we scope it down? I wanted to ask you before saying, like.

810 01:34:02.730 ⇒ 01:34:05.120 Uttam Kumaran: Should we scope it down? Like, I don’t know.

811 01:34:06.750 ⇒ 01:34:19.379 Robert Tseng: Oh, I mean, it doesn’t seem like they’re talking about pricing right now, but I mean, I think you should… I feel like you should say something along the lines of, like, we just need to have a decision now, like, and, you know, we… just letting her know that we already, like.

812 01:34:19.910 ⇒ 01:34:27.749 Robert Tseng: have people on the bench that we’ve pretty much paid for this past month, and they haven’t received work from Element. Like.

813 01:34:27.800 ⇒ 01:34:40.280 Robert Tseng: as much as we want to kind of help frame, like, this… this is what we’re doing. We… we… we have to… we have to, like, we have to shuffle our bench if this is, like, not… like, and… and so, I mean, I would try to frame it more as, like, a…

814 01:34:40.290 ⇒ 01:34:57.990 Robert Tseng: okay, like, I hear I understand, I understand that, like, you know, the way that things were framed, like, weren’t… weren’t ideal. We have had people sitting on the bench for a month, and, like, I have to… I have to shuffle it if we can’t get… get off… get off the line, in which case, like, you know, this is an… this is an expiring offer. This is not always going to be there, like…

815 01:34:57.990 ⇒ 01:35:00.720 Robert Tseng: I mean, you don’t… yeah, but I don’t know, however you want to…

816 01:35:00.720 ⇒ 01:35:12.440 Robert Tseng: whichever piece that you want to do, but at least letting her know that, like, you are paying this… you are paying this cost. Like, she has to know that her indecision and her inability to handle this is, like, not just, like.

817 01:35:12.740 ⇒ 01:35:24.030 Robert Tseng: like, it’s costly, it’s costly for us. So, I mean, I think that’s… I feel like you… you should… it’s… I think it’s fair to, like, let her know that that’s…

818 01:35:24.160 ⇒ 01:35:28.040 Robert Tseng: That’s… that’s the pressure for, like, why she needs to come to a decision.

819 01:35:29.410 ⇒ 01:35:32.539 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so one thing I’m gonna say is, I’m just gonna say, okay, I hear that. We have…

820 01:35:33.150 ⇒ 01:35:34.779 Uttam Kumaran: We have folks on the bench.

821 01:35:36.050 ⇒ 01:35:38.509 Uttam Kumaran: We have folks on the bench this month.

822 01:35:38.950 ⇒ 01:35:40.349 Uttam Kumaran: That are ramping up.

823 01:35:40.610 ⇒ 01:35:41.680 Uttam Kumaran: And I’ve.

824 01:35:41.680 ⇒ 01:35:47.500 Robert Tseng: I’ve already read that we’re expecting to get on to this this month. Like, we were expecting this deal to be done.

825 01:35:49.290 ⇒ 01:35:55.699 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m just gonna have folks on the benches, when they’re expecting to ramp, You know, anytime now, and…

826 01:35:57.320 ⇒ 01:36:05.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m just gonna say… I have to make a decision on reshuffling them.

827 01:36:06.300 ⇒ 01:36:07.800 Uttam Kumaran: for April 1.

828 01:36:19.250 ⇒ 01:36:28.649 Robert Tseng: you can say the concession… I think it’s fair to say the situation, you can make a concession. It’s like, does he just want to extend, like, what we currently have for…

829 01:36:28.810 ⇒ 01:36:39.529 Robert Tseng: another… and then 3 months, like, that’s… that’s fine. Like, we… yeah, we’ve… we’ve gone another month at this pace. Like, it’s just… if that’s what they want to do, just 15K a month for another 3 months, that’s fine. Or I don’t know.

830 01:36:39.530 ⇒ 01:36:42.820 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I’m gonna rip the pace… I’m gonna rip the pace down, like…

831 01:36:42.820 ⇒ 01:36:43.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally.

832 01:36:43.500 ⇒ 01:36:44.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

833 01:36:45.360 ⇒ 01:36:49.870 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I’m gonna say okay here that we have folks on the bench this month that we’re expecting that…

834 01:36:50.510 ⇒ 01:36:54.280 Uttam Kumaran: we… we… that…

835 01:36:54.540 ⇒ 01:37:00.239 Uttam Kumaran: We’re expecting to ramp anytime now, and I have to make a decision reshuffling them for April 1.

836 01:37:00.610 ⇒ 01:37:04.289 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna… we also don’t have our amendment signed for March 1 yet.

837 01:37:05.470 ⇒ 01:37:07.970 Uttam Kumaran: Does he want to… does he…

838 01:37:09.400 ⇒ 01:37:12.580 Uttam Kumaran: Should I say, does he, or do you, or do you both?

839 01:37:14.350 ⇒ 01:37:20.379 Uttam Kumaran: I hate this, this idea. Okay, whatever. Do what should I say, does he… Do you…

840 01:37:21.420 ⇒ 01:37:23.689 Robert Tseng: I don’t think it should be, does he or do you, it’s just like…

841 01:37:23.890 ⇒ 01:37:27.900 Robert Tseng: just like, what… what can we do? What can we? Always put… always use.

842 01:37:27.900 ⇒ 01:37:28.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

843 01:37:28.350 ⇒ 01:37:30.120 Robert Tseng: I’ll use you and me, yeah.

844 01:37:30.290 ⇒ 01:37:36.280 Uttam Kumaran: I say we have folks on our bench this when they’re expecting to ramp up, and… like…

845 01:37:36.610 ⇒ 01:37:40.179 Uttam Kumaran: we have to make a decision on reshuffling them for April 1.

846 01:37:41.030 ⇒ 01:37:43.139 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna say I’m kind of in a bind.

847 01:37:43.760 ⇒ 01:37:44.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

848 01:37:44.710 ⇒ 01:37:46.309 Uttam Kumaran: I’m kind of in a bind.

849 01:37:46.910 ⇒ 01:37:48.840 Uttam Kumaran: What should we do?

850 01:37:49.720 ⇒ 01:37:50.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

851 01:37:51.550 ⇒ 01:37:54.549 Uttam Kumaran: how can I, like, How can I help?

852 01:37:55.840 ⇒ 01:37:59.870 Uttam Kumaran: How can I help, like… Like, yeah, what.

853 01:37:59.870 ⇒ 01:38:02.109 Robert Tseng: So, like, what, yeah, what, how…

854 01:38:02.210 ⇒ 01:38:03.429 Robert Tseng: I mean, I could go and say.

855 01:38:03.430 ⇒ 01:38:04.389 Uttam Kumaran: should we do?

856 01:38:04.870 ⇒ 01:38:08.300 Uttam Kumaran: Should we just extend current pace another month?

857 01:38:08.810 ⇒ 01:38:18.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think an open-ended, what should we do, how do you… how do we make this work, is like, I think, how do we… or what you pick what is better than… yeah, don’t… don’t use the I, me, like, it’s nothing about.

858 01:38:18.100 ⇒ 01:38:18.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, awesome.

859 01:38:18.580 ⇒ 01:38:20.270 Robert Tseng: her anymore at this point, yeah.

860 01:38:20.760 ⇒ 01:38:28.259 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so I’m gonna say, okay, I hear that. We have folks on the bench this month that we’re… we’re expecting to ramp anytime now, to make some decision.

861 01:38:28.550 ⇒ 01:38:32.580 Uttam Kumaran: make a decision reshuffling them for April 1. I’m kind of in a bind.

862 01:38:33.960 ⇒ 01:38:35.809 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that builds some empathy.

863 01:38:36.260 ⇒ 01:38:40.219 Uttam Kumaran: like… Thoughts on what we should do?

864 01:38:46.500 ⇒ 01:38:47.470 Uttam Kumaran: Alright.

865 01:38:49.530 ⇒ 01:38:52.500 Robert Tseng: Or, like, how can we make this work if they haven’t sent it? I don’t know.

866 01:38:52.870 ⇒ 01:38:53.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

867 01:38:59.320 ⇒ 01:39:06.950 Robert Tseng: So I don’t want her to tell us what to do, I want her to tell us how to make it work. Like, that ultimately is what we want from her.

868 01:39:16.350 ⇒ 01:39:17.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

869 01:39:18.950 ⇒ 01:39:24.430 Uttam Kumaran: He says, I think it’ll happen, I think I just needed to get the feedback, and we could have made sure we nailed

870 01:39:25.640 ⇒ 01:39:28.729 Uttam Kumaran: the comms. I know, but she keeps looking to the past.

871 01:39:28.730 ⇒ 01:39:32.590 Robert Tseng: Saying that, it’s just like, that doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t mean anything. Yeah.

872 01:39:32.590 ⇒ 01:39:34.260 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, I don’t… I’m like, I’m over that.

873 01:39:34.260 ⇒ 01:39:35.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.

874 01:39:35.330 ⇒ 01:39:37.100 Uttam Kumaran: I’m over that, but also I’m like…

875 01:39:41.180 ⇒ 01:39:47.520 Uttam Kumaran: If Jarrell came a week ago, if Jarrell came two weeks ago and sold some stuff, bro, my attitude on this would be WAY different.

876 01:39:47.940 ⇒ 01:39:53.490 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Like, if Jarrell… if Jor-El went with Clarence and… Close at UI.

877 01:39:53.690 ⇒ 01:39:59.410 Uttam Kumaran: I’d be like, Alright, well… Call Brooklyn Data.

878 01:39:59.870 ⇒ 01:40:02.609 Uttam Kumaran: See how they’re open-ended $200 a dollar an hour?

879 01:40:02.970 ⇒ 01:40:05.400 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna eat that. See how that works.

880 01:40:06.030 ⇒ 01:40:06.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

881 01:40:06.980 ⇒ 01:40:08.640 Uttam Kumaran: I just hate getting bullied.

882 01:40:08.760 ⇒ 01:40:19.419 Uttam Kumaran: we don’t have… I don’t, like, I also feel like we want this to close. I don’t… I don’t… we don’t have, like, that much leverage. I mean, we have leverage, like, we are the right… she’s clearly, like, we are… she knows that I’m the right partner.

883 01:40:19.710 ⇒ 01:40:26.390 Uttam Kumaran: And that we are, like, the right partner, and she’s framing this negative about us, when in fact.

884 01:40:26.650 ⇒ 01:40:28.190 Uttam Kumaran: I ate it.

885 01:40:29.500 ⇒ 01:40:30.130 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

886 01:40:31.180 ⇒ 01:40:34.850 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, What?

887 01:40:34.850 ⇒ 01:40:35.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

888 01:40:35.780 ⇒ 01:40:36.160 Uttam Kumaran: He says…

889 01:40:36.160 ⇒ 01:40:37.840 Robert Tseng: So, it’s ridiculous, yeah.

890 01:40:37.840 ⇒ 01:40:40.950 Uttam Kumaran: So he, he just stopped… I think it’ll happen, I mean…

891 01:40:41.810 ⇒ 01:40:43.109 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know what she thinks

892 01:40:45.950 ⇒ 01:40:48.279 Uttam Kumaran: Should I say, should we just do a two-week extension? Like…

893 01:40:50.440 ⇒ 01:40:52.400 Uttam Kumaran: And watch the… I’m gonna just say, like, so…

894 01:40:53.750 ⇒ 01:40:55.539 Uttam Kumaran: She says, I think it’ll happen.

895 01:40:58.660 ⇒ 01:41:04.240 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, at this point, I can either say I kinda need to know by Monday.

896 01:41:04.560 ⇒ 01:41:08.920 Uttam Kumaran: This is where I don’t know, like, do I… Do I put Sure.

897 01:41:08.920 ⇒ 01:41:18.519 Robert Tseng: If we lose this deal, what’s, like, what’s the risk? We have to get rid of somebody. Sure. Like, what, Advait, we just have to put back on the… we just have to… we just have to cut them out. Like, I don’t know. Is that the risk?

898 01:41:19.220 ⇒ 01:41:22.560 Robert Tseng: Like, that’s our worst case scenario. I don’t think it’s, like…

899 01:41:22.900 ⇒ 01:41:28.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we… we have to… we can’t let her keep extending. Like, this is… this is the last… the deal has to go over the line this month.

900 01:41:28.970 ⇒ 01:41:32.359 Robert Tseng: Otherwise, we pick it back up later. Or, like, you know, whatever it is.

901 01:41:54.040 ⇒ 01:41:58.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ll say, okay, if we’re confident, it’ll happen… Like, early next week.

902 01:42:00.520 ⇒ 01:42:09.999 Uttam Kumaran: I’m… like… I’m like, okay, I’m gonna put OK in, like, these little tildes.

903 01:42:10.480 ⇒ 01:42:11.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

904 01:42:11.090 ⇒ 01:42:17.310 Uttam Kumaran: But any later… And… we have… some other projects.

905 01:42:17.990 ⇒ 01:42:18.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

906 01:42:19.130 ⇒ 01:42:20.929 Uttam Kumaran: I have to move.

907 01:42:23.830 ⇒ 01:42:25.450 Uttam Kumaran: some people onto.

908 01:42:32.010 ⇒ 01:42:33.870 Uttam Kumaran: Just… hands are tied.

909 01:42:35.600 ⇒ 01:42:36.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

910 01:42:40.060 ⇒ 01:42:40.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

911 01:42:42.730 ⇒ 01:42:47.299 Uttam Kumaran: This is the thing, dude, I mean, it’s a class, it’s just like, yeah, I just wish, like…

912 01:42:48.020 ⇒ 01:42:57.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s just tough. Like, I really want to do this for her, I think we’re gonna nail it for her, I feel really good about it. Like, if Jasmine works on this thing, we’re gonna crush it for her. I just wish…

913 01:42:57.450 ⇒ 01:42:58.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

914 01:42:58.360 ⇒ 01:43:02.239 Uttam Kumaran: But she… she’s nervous that they’re gonna fire her, I think.

915 01:43:02.420 ⇒ 01:43:08.740 Uttam Kumaran: Because she went to the CEO, and the COO, and they’re like… the CEO’s like, What’s a BI tool?

916 01:43:09.020 ⇒ 01:43:13.200 Uttam Kumaran: the CEO was like, Isn’t this the NetSuite project?

917 01:43:13.770 ⇒ 01:43:15.880 Uttam Kumaran: So then her boss is screwing her.

918 01:43:17.330 ⇒ 01:43:23.349 Uttam Kumaran: Her boss is not doing the right thing here. She’s… he’s telling her, fast forward.

919 01:43:23.590 ⇒ 01:43:26.090 Uttam Kumaran: While he’s not doing the thing.

920 01:43:26.230 ⇒ 01:43:33.559 Uttam Kumaran: I… I… but she’s a… she’s really… she’s too sensitive, so I can’t say that. Like, yo, your boss is fucking you.

921 01:43:33.680 ⇒ 01:43:37.969 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, Cause she’s gonna feel like I’m attacking her.

922 01:43:38.080 ⇒ 01:43:40.959 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m like, What, like.

923 01:43:42.110 ⇒ 01:43:49.010 Uttam Kumaran: you know and I know that this guy’s not setting you up. And she said a bunch of times, like, oh, he didn’t come to Bozeman, he’s been hard to reach.

924 01:43:50.860 ⇒ 01:43:52.880 Uttam Kumaran: So, either two things. Either…

925 01:43:54.800 ⇒ 01:44:00.630 Uttam Kumaran: Either he’s gonna get fired, or she’s gonna get fired. What else is possible here?

926 01:44:00.630 ⇒ 01:44:01.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

927 01:44:01.790 ⇒ 01:44:02.560 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

928 01:44:05.610 ⇒ 01:44:07.160 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t know, I don’t think…

929 01:44:08.430 ⇒ 01:44:14.420 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know why she would get fired, because dude, everyone I’ve talked to loves us. They love us.

930 01:44:15.320 ⇒ 01:44:20.200 Uttam Kumaran: she’s the one that really doesn’t fuck with us at times. Everybody I’ve met, we crush.

931 01:44:20.980 ⇒ 01:44:32.150 Uttam Kumaran: you know, and we put stuff in front of them, they’re running this big-ass business on a spreadsheet, I’m like, yo, we’re gonna change your life. Then I’m like, why don’t you crowdsource the fact that, yeah, we’re good at what we do? It’s like, boom, bro.

932 01:44:32.150 ⇒ 01:44:36.570 Robert Tseng: They’ve spent, like, no money with us. What the fuck? It’s so stupid.

933 01:44:36.570 ⇒ 01:44:37.420 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, but dude.

934 01:44:37.420 ⇒ 01:44:44.160 Robert Tseng: Even if she gets fired, that’s the stupidest thing. It’s not like she blew money, but what the, like, what the hell? This is, like, the cost of an analyst.

935 01:44:48.220 ⇒ 01:44:51.450 Uttam Kumaran: If we just sell some other stuff, I can go focus on someone else.

936 01:44:51.820 ⇒ 01:45:06.119 Robert Tseng: Dude, I mean, a 15K deal, yeah, I mean, I’m gonna get Sunstone over the line next week, and whatever, that’s another… it’s not a super long-term thing for now, but it’s at least 20, 24K off the bat, and then it seems like their budget is at least 15K a month moving forward.

937 01:45:06.840 ⇒ 01:45:12.229 Robert Tseng: So, it’s literally, like, an equivalent size deal, and I… I mean, whatever, like, it was… I think there’s just much easier…

938 01:45:12.680 ⇒ 01:45:18.240 Robert Tseng: Money… money at that size is… there’s easier ways to… to work… work that.

939 01:45:18.240 ⇒ 01:45:24.409 Uttam Kumaran: I haven’t… I haven’t done a good job signaling at all that we’re willing to walk away, because I think that would have killed the deal early.

940 01:45:26.460 ⇒ 01:45:30.010 Uttam Kumaran: But, at the same time, like…

941 01:45:30.180 ⇒ 01:45:33.230 Uttam Kumaran: I can tell that that’s causing her to, like, big dog me.

942 01:45:33.680 ⇒ 01:45:39.860 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m being very, very patient not to, like… be like… Yo, relax.

943 01:45:40.690 ⇒ 01:45:42.490 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t talk, don’t.

944 01:45:42.940 ⇒ 01:45:44.880 Robert Tseng: Well, I’m following your lead on it, because if I…

945 01:45:44.880 ⇒ 01:45:46.210 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, I know, I know, I know.

946 01:45:46.210 ⇒ 01:45:47.329 Robert Tseng: I would have, yeah.

947 01:45:47.580 ⇒ 01:45:58.300 Uttam Kumaran: I know, I know, this is on me, I… I’m… Yeah, I mean… Yeah, so…

948 01:45:59.830 ⇒ 01:46:02.880 Uttam Kumaran: But let me show you, we got this thing… I got this up.

949 01:46:03.140 ⇒ 01:46:05.079 Uttam Kumaran: Yesterday, before logging off.

950 01:46:06.340 ⇒ 01:46:10.730 Uttam Kumaran: I couldn’t get it on work. I got it on work.brainforge.ai, but it’s not there yet.

951 01:46:10.900 ⇒ 01:46:12.390 Uttam Kumaran: fuck something up. So…

952 01:46:13.580 ⇒ 01:46:18.869 Uttam Kumaran: I think a lot of the company is just gonna probably move to this, so right now, this is on, like.

953 01:46:18.870 ⇒ 01:46:19.310 Robert Tseng: Nice.

954 01:46:19.310 ⇒ 01:46:29.379 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s just… let’s just use, like, GPT 5.2, like… Yeah. Tell me about… The best consultancies.

955 01:46:29.380 ⇒ 01:46:31.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah, instead of having them use cursor.

956 01:46:31.930 ⇒ 01:46:33.050 Robert Tseng: It’s not gonna work out.

957 01:46:33.050 ⇒ 01:46:37.240 Uttam Kumaran: Two things will happen. One, one is, like…

958 01:46:38.170 ⇒ 01:46:51.029 Uttam Kumaran: people will start using these models, and then second, yeah, I think we’re gonna make this just, like… this will… this will replace what’s at the platform, and then we’re gonna put, like, kind of… we have a lot of widgets and stuff ready to go.

959 01:46:51.140 ⇒ 01:46:55.040 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’m gonna move… yeah, I mean, people are free to use whatever, but I think…

960 01:46:56.080 ⇒ 01:46:59.250 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think quite a few people will move to use this.

961 01:46:59.360 ⇒ 01:47:06.259 Uttam Kumaran: And it will be less about creating more docs in there, just create stuff on the fly as you need, and, like, throw it away.

962 01:47:06.960 ⇒ 01:47:07.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

963 01:47:08.300 ⇒ 01:47:10.480 Uttam Kumaran: So this is really close. This is also, like.

964 01:47:10.600 ⇒ 01:47:13.970 Uttam Kumaran: If I can finish it this weekend, then you can start demoing this.

965 01:47:14.090 ⇒ 01:47:19.460 Uttam Kumaran: And, yeah, Clarence, like, we’re doing a picnic tomorrow.

966 01:47:19.650 ⇒ 01:47:29.289 Uttam Kumaran: So I told Clarence to try to come early so that we could try to wrap this up and then go have a nice, like, have a nice picnic. Yeah.

967 01:47:30.070 ⇒ 01:47:34.339 Uttam Kumaran: But… and then, dude, I think, like…

968 01:47:34.490 ⇒ 01:47:39.309 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll delete this recording, but I think Luke, like, maybe seems out.

969 01:47:39.420 ⇒ 01:47:40.189 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.

970 01:47:41.220 ⇒ 01:47:41.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

971 01:47:41.830 ⇒ 01:47:42.400 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

972 01:47:43.360 ⇒ 01:47:43.729 Robert Tseng: Oh, did he?

973 01:47:44.140 ⇒ 01:47:44.869 Robert Tseng: Why do you?

974 01:47:45.610 ⇒ 01:47:50.439 Uttam Kumaran: No, you just basically said he’s not gonna come to this thing, and he’s like, I don’t know, expectations are changing, like…

975 01:47:50.620 ⇒ 01:47:54.529 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t… I call… I mean… he called Kayla, dude…

976 01:47:54.880 ⇒ 01:48:05.299 Uttam Kumaran: Kayla is a fucking rock star. Like, I will apologize for not… I mean, like, I guess I will apologize, but, like, I don’t have any other data, but, like, yeah, she’s a killer.

977 01:48:05.520 ⇒ 01:48:07.180 Uttam Kumaran: Like, awesome.

978 01:48:07.510 ⇒ 01:48:13.350 Uttam Kumaran: I… I wish we had hired earlier, that’s, like, completely on me, but, like.

979 01:48:14.840 ⇒ 01:48:22.299 Uttam Kumaran: like, the right person for the right job. I think she’s gonna… she’s gonna do, like, a lot for us over time, but…

980 01:48:22.780 ⇒ 01:48:25.759 Uttam Kumaran: she called me, was like, I think he’s, like, 2 days from leaving.

981 01:48:26.100 ⇒ 01:48:30.620 Uttam Kumaran: And I was like, what do you think? And he’s like, look… she’s like, I… she’s like, yeah, I think, like.

982 01:48:32.070 ⇒ 01:48:38.140 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, my style is different than your style, and I said, yeah, that’s by design, that’s, like, a good thing.

983 01:48:38.270 ⇒ 01:48:39.320 Uttam Kumaran: And…

984 01:48:39.480 ⇒ 01:48:48.159 Uttam Kumaran: And I think he… but I also told her, I said… but she’s like… she’s like, I’m good with that, because she’s like, I’m military, like, I’m military background, like, we’re chill.

985 01:48:48.330 ⇒ 01:48:52.699 Uttam Kumaran: But I think what, what she said was that…

986 01:48:53.040 ⇒ 01:48:57.939 Uttam Kumaran: like, yeah, it’s just maybe the personalities don’t match. I also was like, dude, sales team? Hard to hide.

987 01:48:58.410 ⇒ 01:49:01.330 Uttam Kumaran: And I told… I called him on Wednesday, I said, fucking just…

988 01:49:01.510 ⇒ 01:49:05.340 Uttam Kumaran: Wake up and look at the one cell, and just make the cell go up.

989 01:49:05.600 ⇒ 01:49:08.109 Uttam Kumaran: Every day. So, do not do anything.

990 01:49:08.300 ⇒ 01:49:13.139 Uttam Kumaran: And… I think he also is… I think he also is, like, pretty self-critical.

991 01:49:13.970 ⇒ 01:49:14.710 Uttam Kumaran: and…

992 01:49:15.340 ⇒ 01:49:23.100 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, you did a good job. You sent a smiley face emoji on, like, one of the messages, so I think you’re trying, but I also think you see the writing on the wall.

993 01:49:23.210 ⇒ 01:49:24.649 Uttam Kumaran: I certainly do.

994 01:49:25.270 ⇒ 01:49:26.240 Uttam Kumaran: And…

995 01:49:28.850 ⇒ 01:49:35.979 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, it’s tough, because I still believe what I said, like, I still think that we need someone like him, but… Yeah.

996 01:49:37.190 ⇒ 01:49:38.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

997 01:49:40.180 ⇒ 01:49:48.840 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, frankly, like, if we… if you have, like, the capacity to… I mean, since he’s in partnerships world, I mean, I was trying to swallow go-to-market in partnerships.

998 01:49:48.840 ⇒ 01:49:51.139 Uttam Kumaran: No, I can go back, I can go back there, it’s just…

999 01:49:51.140 ⇒ 01:50:05.469 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if he just… if we just move him to you, and he’s just working with you on the Vixel pitch, and also partnership stuff, then, like, he doesn’t have to interact with me anymore, and I’m just gonna run with Jarrell. I’m not gonna talk to any… no, I don’t need to… I don’t need to go to market, like,

1000 01:50:05.930 ⇒ 01:50:07.430 Robert Tseng: like, stand-ups. Like, I just…

1001 01:50:07.430 ⇒ 01:50:12.069 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, then I’m gonna run Mar… then I’m gonna run… then I’m gonna run marketing team.

1002 01:50:12.370 ⇒ 01:50:14.809 Uttam Kumaran: And maybe I just do that, I mean, but like…

1003 01:50:17.090 ⇒ 01:50:23.450 Uttam Kumaran: if you don’t get along… if… this is the thing, though, I don’t… if you’re not gonna get along with this, we shouldn’t be at our company, so…

1004 01:50:23.660 ⇒ 01:50:26.840 Uttam Kumaran: I think you… I think what I need to hear from you is you’re like.

1005 01:50:27.160 ⇒ 01:50:30.359 Uttam Kumaran: We need this person just on that team.

1006 01:50:30.580 ⇒ 01:50:34.610 Uttam Kumaran: Or… but if… ultimately, you’re like, this person is not… like…

1007 01:50:34.730 ⇒ 01:50:40.729 Uttam Kumaran: gonna crush it, and I… and I can’t mesh, then there’s no… there’s no room. Like, I don’t… there’s… there’s no room.

1008 01:50:41.810 ⇒ 01:50:55.880 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t mind that, I don’t mind. Look, our company’s bigger than one person. That’s, like, I’m not married to that at all. But, like, if… I think you… I want… because otherwise, it’s like, there’s no, like, you’re never gonna interact with them. So, that’s why I’m like, if you can…

1009 01:50:56.580 ⇒ 01:50:58.410 Uttam Kumaran: If you can see a path.

1010 01:50:59.900 ⇒ 01:51:06.239 Uttam Kumaran: to having a good relationship with him, and you’re like, I think he has a superpower there, I could sh… I think I can prove that.

1011 01:51:09.080 ⇒ 01:51:12.780 Uttam Kumaran: I… do I want to do that? No, like, I don’t want to… I have no… I have no bandwidth.

1012 01:51:12.780 ⇒ 01:51:15.769 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t really want… I don’t want to ask you to do that, I just… yeah.

1013 01:51:16.140 ⇒ 01:51:22.440 Uttam Kumaran: No, and I… but it’s also, like, I didn’t… we didn’t… I didn’t ask you to do that either, like, you were… we were supposed to hire somebody that could do that, so…

1014 01:51:23.110 ⇒ 01:51:24.310 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, like.

1015 01:51:36.230 ⇒ 01:51:37.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s tough, dude, because…

1016 01:51:43.540 ⇒ 01:51:47.930 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I mean, I love the guy, I think he does have really good brand.

1017 01:51:48.050 ⇒ 01:51:56.280 Uttam Kumaran: ideas. I don’t think he’s picked up exactly what we do fast enough, but… I think he’s… Yeah.

1018 01:51:57.240 ⇒ 01:52:16.260 Robert Tseng: Well, what I… the best outcome to me is that, like, he sees, like, I mean, she may feel like his pride may not be able to handle it, but we’ve narrowed his scope so much in the performance… I didn’t spend an hour with him walking… walking through that yesterday. Sure, he shared all the insecurities, whatever, but I want him to come to the admission that, like, dude, I’m not a lead.

1019 01:52:16.330 ⇒ 01:52:34.869 Robert Tseng: stop looking for Hannah’s backfill. You are Hannah’s backfill. Like, you are basically Hannah level. Like, I don’t know, that’s my… that’s my opinion. Like, he should just basically replace Hannah at this point, or… I mean, Hannah’s gonna be out in, like, a couple months, or whatever. Like, he can only be trusted to move, like, one or two things, or two metrics.

1020 01:52:34.870 ⇒ 01:52:50.629 Robert Tseng: he clearly doesn’t have the ability to look at a number and say, I know the activities that are going to move that. Like, even him and Hannah spending half a day yesterday workshopping, building this Figma thing and showing it to me, I was, like, literally explaining this to Rachel. I was like, have you seen this thing?

1021 01:52:50.630 ⇒ 01:52:56.660 Robert Tseng: like, how does this actually move those 3 metrics I gave him? And Rachel, like, obviously more the…

1022 01:52:56.660 ⇒ 01:52:58.189 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The compassionate person for me.

1023 01:52:58.190 ⇒ 01:53:02.620 Robert Tseng: trying to defend him, and, like, I just… it just doesn’t… it doesn’t… it doesn’t get there, so…

1024 01:53:02.620 ⇒ 01:53:03.990 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where, dude, like.

1025 01:53:05.530 ⇒ 01:53:09.889 Uttam Kumaran: I… I also… I went and texted… I texted, like, 6 or 7 salespeople.

1026 01:53:10.160 ⇒ 01:53:12.239 Uttam Kumaran: I said, send me anybody you know.

1027 01:53:12.850 ⇒ 01:53:16.239 Uttam Kumaran: that’s looking for a job or doesn’t like their sales gig, you should call Artie.

1028 01:53:16.710 ⇒ 01:53:20.639 Uttam Kumaran: And you should ask Artie to sell for us, too, even just, like, to try it.

1029 01:53:21.120 ⇒ 01:53:21.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1030 01:53:21.840 ⇒ 01:53:24.260 Uttam Kumaran: At this point, dude, I’m so numb that I’m like…

1031 01:53:24.500 ⇒ 01:53:26.770 Uttam Kumaran: We have some shit to sell right now.

1032 01:53:28.320 ⇒ 01:53:32.660 Uttam Kumaran: I do think the partnerships thing is… is worth it and everything, but, like.

1033 01:53:34.230 ⇒ 01:53:38.549 Uttam Kumaran: like, fuck it, I’ll turn it all off, turn it right back on when we need it.

1034 01:53:38.680 ⇒ 01:53:41.709 Uttam Kumaran: You know, like, it’s not like those people stop selling.

1035 01:53:42.110 ⇒ 01:53:45.759 Uttam Kumaran: And I’ll just be like, yo, yeah, we have to… we have to figure our shit out, be back.

1036 01:53:46.360 ⇒ 01:53:46.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1037 01:53:46.830 ⇒ 01:53:47.539 Uttam Kumaran: Like, there’s a relationship.

1038 01:53:47.540 ⇒ 01:53:54.290 Robert Tseng: P&L can take it, like, he’s not, like, that… I mean, I would prefer to down-level him and, like, whatever, but also, like.

1039 01:53:54.660 ⇒ 01:53:57.329 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if it’s valuable, having him do the.

1040 01:53:57.330 ⇒ 01:54:04.200 Uttam Kumaran: She’s also good for I think he’s also good for culture, like, he’s in LA, like… I…

1041 01:54:11.700 ⇒ 01:54:13.800 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, let me call him.

1042 01:54:13.950 ⇒ 01:54:23.189 Uttam Kumaran: But I really need you to be, like, not out on him. Like, if you’re burnt out on him, then it’s done. It’s like… and I’m not emotional about that, like… No, I know, yeah. Okay. That’s what I really need.

1043 01:54:23.190 ⇒ 01:54:43.019 Robert Tseng: I’m not out on him yet. I just think that he… he got called out, and he… he’s, like, going through this chasm of, like, is it worth it to, like, really come face-to-face with that I cannot deliver at the way that I was expecting? Yeah, he just… he needs to get over himself. If he can get over that hump, I think… I think it will be fine, like…

1044 01:54:43.020 ⇒ 01:54:44.589 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s what I’m gonna call…

1045 01:54:44.590 ⇒ 01:54:57.350 Robert Tseng: brought up to me yesterday was just all of his emotion, just nothing is completely ungrounded, telling me, oh, Hannah and Ryan are, like, they had so much pressure from the WBRs. Well, dude, you guys had 10.

1046 01:54:57.350 ⇒ 01:54:57.760 Uttam Kumaran: No.

1047 01:54:57.760 ⇒ 01:55:02.300 Robert Tseng: weeks to, like… but yeah, it’s… that’s what this is. Like, it’s meant to show you whether…

1048 01:55:02.300 ⇒ 01:55:03.029 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, I also…

1049 01:55:03.030 ⇒ 01:55:03.440 Robert Tseng: catching it.

1050 01:55:03.440 ⇒ 01:55:14.349 Uttam Kumaran: This is what I’m like, dude, I was leading marketing, these people are marketers, so now they’re not… now, like… yeah, and I think Hannah is great… is a great marketer… I think Hannah’s a great designer, I think that’s what she wants to do.

1051 01:55:14.500 ⇒ 01:55:29.279 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, but also, like, okay, yeah, this… now this team’s getting flipped, so what I’m gonna call… like, in no way, I never, like, I’m not… I don’t call people and, like, I’m not gonna apologize for the way we’ve done anything. I’m also gonna say, yo, this is a business where you’re gonna get very tough feedback.

1052 01:55:29.610 ⇒ 01:55:49.320 Uttam Kumaran: you cannot also be down on yourself, and then be, like, emotional. You need to want to win. So you wake up, and you… first thing you need to decide is, do you believe that our company is going to win, and then do you want to be part of that? Because if the first answer is no, then there’s no room for you here. Because I believe… so, like, if you think you have a better opportunity somewhere, then let’s see it.

1053 01:55:49.960 ⇒ 01:55:53.080 Uttam Kumaran: Go do that, and then DM me on LinkedIn in 2 years.

1054 01:55:53.770 ⇒ 01:55:57.280 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t care. But then, if you… if we’re past that.

1055 01:55:57.400 ⇒ 01:56:08.430 Uttam Kumaran: Then now it’s like, okay, what you need to do is not try to do the thing that you’re bad at, but anything you do here has to show results. I called them, I said, dude, I know you’re sick at the brand stuff.

1056 01:56:08.640 ⇒ 01:56:20.559 Uttam Kumaran: This is an opportunity to expand your… into another Venn diagram. It’s gonna help you get better at brand if you make these fucking phone calls and learn what your ICP cares about.

1057 01:56:21.120 ⇒ 01:56:26.009 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think still he’s been down. Fine. I’m gonna call him today and basically be like.

1058 01:56:26.260 ⇒ 01:56:31.700 Uttam Kumaran: We have one, like… Robert still believes in you, I still think you have value.

1059 01:56:32.880 ⇒ 01:56:39.049 Uttam Kumaran: What we could try to do is me and you work closely this month on partnerships.

1060 01:56:39.410 ⇒ 01:56:41.830 Uttam Kumaran: And on this brand rollout thing.

1061 01:56:42.400 ⇒ 01:56:54.239 Uttam Kumaran: And me and you have to come up with some KPIs this weekend that you’re gonna hold yourself to, that we’re gonna set together. That way, in a month, you either smash or you don’t. That’s it.

1062 01:57:00.360 ⇒ 01:57:05.299 Robert Tseng: I think that’s… I think that’s fair. But, like, I… okay, if I can show you this thing…

1063 01:57:05.630 ⇒ 01:57:08.619 Robert Tseng: I mean, I literally just read his thread as you brought it up.

1064 01:57:11.000 ⇒ 01:57:13.539 Robert Tseng: So… Let’s see…

1065 01:57:21.780 ⇒ 01:57:27.690 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, he said, I’m not asking to answer those questions. It’s very normal for a strategy to want to spend time with the founders.

1066 01:57:27.840 ⇒ 01:57:38.060 Uttam Kumaran: Also confused, you’re telling me you don’t want to carve out time, and I asked that he would like to carve out time. I’ve already done a lot of work by myself. You also told me it appears someone’s execution only.

1067 01:57:40.080 ⇒ 01:57:44.619 Uttam Kumaran: Happy to walk through sales calls, happy to talk to Vishnu… I mean, do… okay.

1068 01:57:44.980 ⇒ 01:57:50.930 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where, dude, what you need is a Joral. So, I think we’re past that. Don’t, like, I think that’s done. Like…

1069 01:57:51.080 ⇒ 01:57:53.379 Uttam Kumaran: What we always needed was a Jarrell.

1070 01:57:53.960 ⇒ 01:57:59.179 Uttam Kumaran: I think Jake is closer to that, but still not a Jarrell. Like, I talked to Jake yesterday.

1071 01:57:59.450 ⇒ 01:58:06.760 Uttam Kumaran: I still think he can come and smash some sit for us. The exact thing I told him to do is working, by the way, and he’s making a lot of money doing it, which is…

1072 01:58:07.150 ⇒ 01:58:16.479 Uttam Kumaran: drafting videos saying, hey, I love Rill, here’s, like, a top 5 thing, sending it to Rill and being like, I can do… he’s like, he literally said, I made more money

1073 01:58:16.480 ⇒ 01:58:31.450 Uttam Kumaran: this last month than I’ve ever made in my, like, in any single month, in any single, like, six-month period at entrepreneurship. He’s like, I feel… he literally said, I feel so stupid for, like, doing consumer, and I’m like, no, dude, it’s all part of the journey. Like, you learn… you learn.

1074 01:58:31.510 ⇒ 01:58:39.389 Uttam Kumaran: But I said, I’m about… we’re about to rip this OpenWork platform and all this shit, I want you to come do videos for us. He already said he’ll do it for free, because I basically…

1075 01:58:39.460 ⇒ 01:58:45.189 Uttam Kumaran: gave him this sick idea that’s paying for everything, and I think we’re gonna have a way to… but he’s also not, like.

1076 01:58:45.740 ⇒ 01:58:49.460 Uttam Kumaran: He also doesn’t have any deep expertise in, in, like.

1077 01:58:49.870 ⇒ 01:58:57.699 Uttam Kumaran: the dance of actually, like, selling. So, I think you needed a Jarrell. I think we… we now understand that Artie’s gonna tell you the exact same thing.

1078 01:58:58.570 ⇒ 01:59:05.369 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, and so, I think if… see if you can convince Hardy, see… see, I think… see if we can hammer Jarrell to do it.

1079 01:59:05.590 ⇒ 01:59:10.559 Uttam Kumaran: like, I have… I texted a bunch of people, I have some other people that we’re gonna try, so I think that’s it.

1080 01:59:11.240 ⇒ 01:59:17.779 Uttam Kumaran: So I think on the strategy piece, let me see if I can… Put some thought towards

1081 01:59:17.890 ⇒ 01:59:21.439 Uttam Kumaran: Partnership, brand, and marketing activities that

1082 01:59:21.810 ⇒ 01:59:24.689 Uttam Kumaran: Me and him can set that are actually meaningful.

1083 01:59:25.950 ⇒ 01:59:30.590 Uttam Kumaran: To our sales team, and confirmed that this weekend, and that he’s still in it.

1084 01:59:31.370 ⇒ 01:59:34.209 Uttam Kumaran: And then… Gonna do another month.

1085 01:59:35.040 ⇒ 01:59:35.610 Robert Tseng: Sure.

1086 01:59:36.660 ⇒ 01:59:41.340 Robert Tseng: I mean, I basically told him he had 2 months to, basically, and 2 months of runway for him, like, but I don’.

1087 01:59:41.340 ⇒ 01:59:49.259 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m also gonna call and be like, yo, this is it, bro, you’re… you’re in the mix, like, we have to win. This is what it feels like. Like, this is not a casual thing, this is like…

1088 01:59:49.680 ⇒ 01:59:52.200 Uttam Kumaran: Worked our asses off, like, it’s…

1089 01:59:52.590 ⇒ 01:59:54.860 Uttam Kumaran: It’s going to be kind of intense.

1090 01:59:55.910 ⇒ 01:59:57.290 Uttam Kumaran: What drives me.

1091 01:59:57.290 ⇒ 02:00:10.419 Robert Tseng: is that every time I ask, I give him something, he’s always starting from square one. It shows your lack of confidence, no conviction. You’re not teaching us anything. You’re always asking me to repeat from scratch, and it just, like.

1092 02:00:10.420 ⇒ 02:00:10.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

1093 02:00:11.180 ⇒ 02:00:16.519 Robert Tseng: frustrates the hell out of me, because it’s like… exactly what… I think Kayla framed it perfectly. It was like…

1094 02:00:16.520 ⇒ 02:00:16.880 Uttam Kumaran: S.

1095 02:00:16.880 ⇒ 02:00:31.109 Robert Tseng: the best communicators, they come and they share, here are the three things I’m thinking about, this is my recommendation, what do you think? You know, like, they’re always bringing something to the table when they’re asking for something, not just being like, can I get more time with you? And just being, like, a frickin’ leech.

1096 02:00:31.250 ⇒ 02:00:32.240 Robert Tseng: So, like…

1097 02:00:32.240 ⇒ 02:00:32.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

1098 02:00:33.180 ⇒ 02:00:38.939 Robert Tseng: I mean, sure, I… at the end of the day, like, I’m just maybe a psychopath, but I… I like… I like the deal.

1099 02:00:38.940 ⇒ 02:00:40.200 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no.

1100 02:00:40.200 ⇒ 02:00:45.020 Robert Tseng: just like, I don’t have an issue with him personally. I don’t think you’re a psychopath.

1101 02:00:45.430 ⇒ 02:00:49.009 Uttam Kumaran: I just think, like, what we need right now as a seller

1102 02:00:49.240 ⇒ 02:00:56.109 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna… I think if you’re okay with it, as usual, I will try to see if this guy has something for us.

1103 02:00:56.570 ⇒ 02:00:58.549 Uttam Kumaran: He may not, and I’m… I’m…

1104 02:00:58.660 ⇒ 02:01:03.289 Uttam Kumaran: I am less interested in finding out about people, if they have anything for us, than I’ve ever been.

1105 02:01:03.650 ⇒ 02:01:07.430 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning, like, I am no longer, like, a parachute, like…

1106 02:01:08.840 ⇒ 02:01:20.860 Uttam Kumaran: We have to win now, like, right now. Everybody needs to be doing shit for us now. I’m so happy that we’re getting some of these people from a booze alley, from a Disney, because they’re gonna walk in and be like, what the fuck is this?

1107 02:01:21.330 ⇒ 02:01:30.990 Uttam Kumaran: shitshow. And I’m gonna be like, yes, like a Jasmine’s gonna be like, what the fuck is going on? They’re gonna find that these… there’s people here that, like, either can rise, but I… really, it’s like…

1108 02:01:31.390 ⇒ 02:01:37.430 Uttam Kumaran: the sea level, it’s like… there’s, like, a video game where the water moves up. The water is, like, moving up, you know?

1109 02:01:37.430 ⇒ 02:01:37.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.

1110 02:01:37.880 ⇒ 02:01:40.489 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m gonna call him, I’m gonna see, is there… is there a way?

1111 02:01:41.490 ⇒ 02:01:49.730 Uttam Kumaran: And if there’s not, there’s not. It’s okay, fine, whatever. Like, this is just what happens. So, let’s see. Like, but first of all, I need him to…

1112 02:01:49.840 ⇒ 02:01:51.469 Uttam Kumaran: I need him to be, like.

1113 02:01:51.710 ⇒ 02:02:02.920 Uttam Kumaran: I get where the feedback is coming from. I disagree with the approach, but I understand. If he doesn’t say that, then we’re at a complete impasse. Like, this is, like, not an emotional thing, yeah.

1114 02:02:03.320 ⇒ 02:02:03.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1115 02:02:04.510 ⇒ 02:02:06.290 Uttam Kumaran: So, okay, let me do that.

1116 02:02:06.890 ⇒ 02:02:07.430 Robert Tseng: Okay.

1117 02:02:07.430 ⇒ 02:02:11.909 Uttam Kumaran: Shivani said she’s gonna talk to, Phil on Monday, and call me right after.

1118 02:02:12.800 ⇒ 02:02:15.219 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you for the advice on my messages.

1119 02:02:19.760 ⇒ 02:02:21.629 Uttam Kumaran: I also did, I’m, like…

1120 02:02:22.430 ⇒ 02:02:32.680 Uttam Kumaran: everybody from, like, the past 3 years that I’ve talked to about our stuff is getting back in touch with me this… this month and last month, bro. So…

1121 02:02:32.990 ⇒ 02:02:33.880 Uttam Kumaran: like…

1122 02:02:36.390 ⇒ 02:02:46.090 Uttam Kumaran: And everybody is coming to me with an idea, and I’m coming to them with, like, why don’t you just fuck your idea? Like, just come work for us? Like, dude, what’s his face? Josh is so, so in.

1123 02:02:46.960 ⇒ 02:02:51.379 Uttam Kumaran: You should try to meet with him next week and just try to sign something that gets him to work with us.

1124 02:02:51.930 ⇒ 02:02:52.570 Robert Tseng: Okay.

1125 02:02:53.190 ⇒ 02:02:53.640 Uttam Kumaran: he seems…

1126 02:02:53.640 ⇒ 02:02:55.500 Robert Tseng: I want to look at business. That would help.

1127 02:02:55.500 ⇒ 02:02:57.879 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I know, so suss out, like…

1128 02:02:58.010 ⇒ 02:03:03.450 Uttam Kumaran: He seems kind of, like, in the, in the kind of, like… he seems kind of depresso about having to give this up.

1129 02:03:03.930 ⇒ 02:03:08.399 Uttam Kumaran: And he was totally… he was like, you’re exactly right about, like, having to go back in industry.

1130 02:03:10.170 ⇒ 02:03:14.129 Uttam Kumaran: So, think about something that we feel like is fair, or think about some type of ramp.

1131 02:03:14.560 ⇒ 02:03:20.409 Uttam Kumaran: Because I can tell he wants to work with a solid team, and he wants to, like… but he liked the GM model, I think you can come in and rip

1132 02:03:20.750 ⇒ 02:03:24.100 Uttam Kumaran: Ask these clients, he’s running all these clients, like, alone.

1133 02:03:24.460 ⇒ 02:03:26.039 Robert Tseng: Yeah, oh, he’s alone? Okay.

1134 02:03:26.040 ⇒ 02:03:29.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, he said he randomly subcontracts, but…

1135 02:03:29.330 ⇒ 02:03:37.099 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. And I said, dude, I’ll hand you, we’ll hand you the relationship with Amplitude, we can go build a relationship with Post Hog, we have all these other data things, you want to go learn on any of that stuff, you can…

1136 02:03:38.210 ⇒ 02:03:39.960 Uttam Kumaran: So, dude, we just keep, like…

1137 02:03:41.770 ⇒ 02:03:48.730 Uttam Kumaran: like, I feel like we found someone good in Kayla, found someone really good in B, like, Rico’s still crushing.

1138 02:03:49.130 ⇒ 02:03:56.340 Uttam Kumaran: I feel bad for Eliza, but it looks like Rico’s like, I’m gonna rip some skills and be okay. I said, okay, that’s what I like to hear. Like…

1139 02:03:56.600 ⇒ 02:03:57.979 Uttam Kumaran: So, we just keep…

1140 02:03:57.980 ⇒ 02:04:02.480 Robert Tseng: He’s not doing anything for sales right now, so, like, go… go do your… Yeah, but dude, he’s cool.

1141 02:04:02.480 ⇒ 02:04:04.010 Uttam Kumaran: a lot alive right now on the.

1142 02:04:04.010 ⇒ 02:04:05.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know.

1143 02:04:05.220 ⇒ 02:04:12.370 Uttam Kumaran: on the other stuff, like, dude, that… did you see that slide with escalations? He’s literally, like, having people sign, this is your second escalation.

1144 02:04:12.950 ⇒ 02:04:13.420 Robert Tseng: Hmm.

1145 02:04:13.420 ⇒ 02:04:23.430 Uttam Kumaran: And then he sends it to me, he’s like, this person’s on their second Escalade. I’m like, let’s fucking go, yeah, Escalade. Like, this is… he’s like, violation or whatever. It’s good, like, it’s good.

1146 02:04:23.430 ⇒ 02:04:23.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1147 02:04:23.820 ⇒ 02:04:28.030 Uttam Kumaran: Good. It’s good. So… Okay, let me try to.

1148 02:04:28.030 ⇒ 02:04:29.319 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you haven’t a cold?

1149 02:04:29.320 ⇒ 02:04:34.199 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we’re good, we’re going, like… No, no, no, no, dude, you’re good. This is, like, how it should… this is, like…

1150 02:04:35.310 ⇒ 02:04:41.810 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’re going through another rotation. Like, it’s every 3 months, we’re going through another rotation.

1151 02:04:41.810 ⇒ 02:04:45.069 Robert Tseng: I’m trying my best, and I just don’t know what I am.

1152 02:04:45.070 ⇒ 02:04:49.879 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, we… I think we… I think Jake wasn’t right.

1153 02:04:50.170 ⇒ 02:04:57.090 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna see if… If this is right, Dude, when I turn…

1154 02:04:57.090 ⇒ 02:05:05.930 Robert Tseng: off the fucking sales noise. I just got two deals over the line this week. Like, what the fuck am I doing running this team? It’s, like, so…

1155 02:05:06.230 ⇒ 02:05:10.420 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, but then, like, but, like… Yeah.

1156 02:05:11.980 ⇒ 02:05:15.920 Uttam Kumaran: So cut it all, I mean, cut it all, like, I know Hannah can work, like.

1157 02:05:16.530 ⇒ 02:05:18.470 Uttam Kumaran: Hannah could work with me on everything.

1158 02:05:20.330 ⇒ 02:05:21.799 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I don’t know.

1159 02:05:23.120 ⇒ 02:05:23.850 Uttam Kumaran: Fine.

1160 02:05:23.850 ⇒ 02:05:26.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Well, anyway, I mean, well, obviously…

1161 02:05:26.060 ⇒ 02:05:26.469 Uttam Kumaran: Figure it out.

1162 02:05:26.730 ⇒ 02:05:28.089 Robert Tseng: I’m frustrated, but, like, we’ll…

1163 02:05:28.090 ⇒ 02:05:28.850 Uttam Kumaran: How was your birthday?

1164 02:05:28.850 ⇒ 02:05:31.220 Robert Tseng: I don’t think anyone… I don’t think anything was…

1165 02:05:31.920 ⇒ 02:05:34.359 Robert Tseng: it’s not… nothing is wasted. It’s, like, we… there’s no.

1166 02:05:34.360 ⇒ 02:05:38.609 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I think if something’s wasted, I just wish it was, like, Monday, we’ll spawn.

1167 02:05:38.610 ⇒ 02:05:40.309 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1168 02:05:40.420 ⇒ 02:05:41.619 Uttam Kumaran: How was birthday?

1169 02:05:42.040 ⇒ 02:05:50.260 Robert Tseng: Birthday is good. We went to get Italian. First time we’ve had Italian, because Rachel doesn’t really like Italian.

1170 02:05:50.260 ⇒ 02:05:50.969 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay.

1171 02:05:50.970 ⇒ 02:05:52.870 Robert Tseng: So, that was nice. She, she…

1172 02:05:52.870 ⇒ 02:05:58.380 Uttam Kumaran: She doesn’t like red sauce, or she just doesn’t like… I mean, we had kind of noodles, right? But this… it was Asian. Here.

1173 02:05:58.380 ⇒ 02:06:05.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, she’s… I think she… she thinks al dente is too crunchy, and you know, just like…

1174 02:06:05.920 ⇒ 02:06:09.819 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess if you go to a nice restaurant, it’s usually, like, a little bit like that.

1175 02:06:11.510 ⇒ 02:06:16.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So he’s like, oh, it’s too much carbs, or whatever, but, you know, that’s…

1176 02:06:16.280 ⇒ 02:06:18.000 Robert Tseng: It’s fine. And then it was nice.

1177 02:06:18.000 ⇒ 02:06:23.739 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, I’m like, in another life, I’m like an Italian… I’m literally, I told Jess, I’m like an Italian grandma in another life, like…

1178 02:06:23.890 ⇒ 02:06:26.900 Uttam Kumaran: I really love it. Italian food, it’s so good.

1179 02:06:27.470 ⇒ 02:06:33.150 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s my favorite non-Asian cuisine, so… Yeah.

1180 02:06:33.890 ⇒ 02:06:41.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah. No, it was good. I mean, it’s a crazy one week, first week back, and my blood is already kind of like…

1181 02:06:41.440 ⇒ 02:06:46.750 Robert Tseng: up to boiling point, and whatever, it’s fine. It just… it is what it is, and

1182 02:06:47.640 ⇒ 02:06:50.309 Robert Tseng: No, I… I feel like…

1183 02:06:53.390 ⇒ 02:07:09.199 Robert Tseng: there’s still some decisions to be made. I mean, I am… I’m gonna take a leave of absence from school, but I’m like, do I even just… do I even finish out the semester? I literally had no motivation. I walked out of class early every day, or I was just frickin’ working the entire time, so… that’s something I need to decide this weekend.

1184 02:07:09.590 ⇒ 02:07:11.880 Robert Tseng: And, yeah.

1185 02:07:11.880 ⇒ 02:07:15.219 Uttam Kumaran: I think your instincts on… I think your instincts on the LA thing are right.

1186 02:07:16.500 ⇒ 02:07:21.359 Uttam Kumaran: like… I would say even just for you to be next to Caleb is worth it.

1187 02:07:22.190 ⇒ 02:07:26.729 Uttam Kumaran: Let alone everybody else, you know, so… but again, that’s, like, life decision.

1188 02:07:26.890 ⇒ 02:07:29.760 Uttam Kumaran: I… I totally think that, like, I didn’t…

1189 02:07:30.020 ⇒ 02:07:32.980 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t think Kayla was gonna be this good.

1190 02:07:33.320 ⇒ 02:07:40.249 Uttam Kumaran: So I feel more than comfortable telling her, no more engineers until they’re… they’re in Austin and they’re willing to move here. Because she’s sourcing, like.

1191 02:07:41.510 ⇒ 02:07:47.070 Uttam Kumaran: Everybody, like, we have, like, I’m the one being like, yo, real… like, I think we’re good, like, because otherwise.

1192 02:07:47.070 ⇒ 02:07:47.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1193 02:07:48.160 ⇒ 02:07:50.609 Uttam Kumaran: Get them to, like, submit a loom and, like, sit there.

1194 02:07:50.720 ⇒ 02:07:53.170 Uttam Kumaran: So, I feel comfortable doing that, like…

1195 02:07:53.660 ⇒ 02:07:57.430 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I think she’s gonna find the people here if I do that, so…

1196 02:07:57.430 ⇒ 02:07:57.930 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1197 02:07:57.930 ⇒ 02:07:58.610 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.

1198 02:08:00.470 ⇒ 02:08:01.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but either way.

1199 02:08:01.360 ⇒ 02:08:07.750 Robert Tseng: Catching a wide net and, like, filtering it down, but she… she is… she can… she can nail the… what we want.

1200 02:08:07.750 ⇒ 02:08:10.230 Uttam Kumaran: But she’s, like, emotionless in it, like, she’s, like.

1201 02:08:10.230 ⇒ 02:08:10.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

1202 02:08:11.910 ⇒ 02:08:21.710 Uttam Kumaran: She’s like, yeah, she’ll be like… and everybody who is really interested in working with us, there hasn’t been a single… except this guy, Chad, who dropped out, but then sent us two people.

1203 02:08:21.840 ⇒ 02:08:27.560 Uttam Kumaran: Well, but I think he was, like, he’s, like, I think he’s going for, like, real big enterprise, like, he was, like, GM’s, like, head of something.

1204 02:08:27.800 ⇒ 02:08:31.760 Uttam Kumaran: I see. So, I didn’t watch his interviews, but I feel he’s probably, like.

1205 02:08:32.170 ⇒ 02:08:40.620 Uttam Kumaran: I want to go to… he was like, yeah, I ran something that, like, touched… ran BI reports that touched, like, 100,000, like, people’s… I was like, oh, okay, this is, like…

1206 02:08:40.870 ⇒ 02:08:42.859 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe a different level than I’m used to.

1207 02:08:42.860 ⇒ 02:08:43.739 Robert Tseng: Yeah, real enterprise.

1208 02:08:43.740 ⇒ 02:08:50.410 Uttam Kumaran: But that he liked us so much, he’s like, hey, I’m not gonna pass, but I have two guys that, like, work for me that are, like.

1209 02:08:50.630 ⇒ 02:08:55.460 Uttam Kumaran: literally, like, they will destroy your inter… like, your interview, like, they’re really good.

1210 02:08:55.780 ⇒ 02:08:57.689 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, well, that’s good.

1211 02:09:02.390 ⇒ 02:09:08.139 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, and it seems like… I feel like after I called Jasmine over the weekend, seems like she’s, like, really, really, like, all in.

1212 02:09:08.540 ⇒ 02:09:09.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

1213 02:09:09.240 ⇒ 02:09:09.810 Robert Tseng: Bye.

1214 02:09:10.340 ⇒ 02:09:10.950 Uttam Kumaran: So…

1215 02:09:15.330 ⇒ 02:09:16.040 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

1216 02:09:16.640 ⇒ 02:09:17.490 Uttam Kumaran: Alright.

1217 02:09:18.930 ⇒ 02:09:21.279 Uttam Kumaran: A little hour or two more left, got it.

1218 02:09:23.780 ⇒ 02:09:25.969 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, enjoy, go outside, dude, yeah.

1219 02:09:25.970 ⇒ 02:09:27.789 Robert Tseng: Talk to you later, let me know how it goes.

1220 02:09:28.000 ⇒ 02:09:28.360 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.

1221 02:09:28.360 ⇒ 02:09:29.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah.