Meeting Title: Eden Future Roadmap Date: 2026-03-19 Meeting participants: Brylle Girang, Greg Stoutenburg, Robert Tseng, Zoran Selinger, Amber Lin
WEBVTT
1 00:03:22.950 ⇒ 00:03:23.979 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, B.
2 00:03:27.900 ⇒ 00:03:28.820 Brylle Girang: Hello!
3 00:03:32.040 ⇒ 00:03:32.819 Greg Stoutenburg: How’s it going?
4 00:03:34.800 ⇒ 00:03:37.399 Brylle Girang: Good, lots of stuff, I can imagine.
5 00:03:38.100 ⇒ 00:03:40.690 Brylle Girang: The stuff that’s piling up on your end.
6 00:03:41.840 ⇒ 00:03:43.489 Greg Stoutenburg: Couple things, couple things.
7 00:03:47.110 ⇒ 00:03:48.000 Brylle Girang: Hey, Roberts.
8 00:03:48.700 ⇒ 00:03:49.640 Robert Tseng: Hey, guys.
9 00:03:50.280 ⇒ 00:03:50.940 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey!
10 00:03:54.350 ⇒ 00:03:55.489 Brylle Girang: How was your birthday?
11 00:03:57.070 ⇒ 00:04:05.500 Robert Tseng: It was good. I mean, it was the normal workday, but, then my wife and I went out and had a nice dinner last night.
12 00:04:06.870 ⇒ 00:04:12.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I like Italian food, it’s one of my favorites.
13 00:04:12.770 ⇒ 00:04:31.480 Robert Tseng: we’ve never had Italian food in New York, because my wife doesn’t like Italian food, so, it was nice of her to surprise me with an Italian meal. Yeah, that was, that was special. I’ve been here for over 2 years, and I’ve never, never had it with her before.
14 00:04:32.470 ⇒ 00:04:34.560 Greg Stoutenburg: And it’s supposed to be a good place to get it, so…
15 00:04:34.560 ⇒ 00:04:39.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know. That’s the funny part.
16 00:04:39.010 ⇒ 00:04:44.580 Greg Stoutenburg: Like, alright, well, if you can bring a sandwich or something, if you don’t like Italian, but it’s remember…
17 00:04:44.580 ⇒ 00:04:47.659 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah. So, that was, that was, that was nice.
18 00:04:53.170 ⇒ 00:04:53.720 Brylle Girang: He’s alright.
19 00:04:54.410 ⇒ 00:04:55.240 Zoran Selinger: Bye, guys.
20 00:04:56.150 ⇒ 00:04:56.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey.
21 00:04:58.860 ⇒ 00:04:59.960 Robert Tseng: Okay, I just forgot. Perfect, yeah.
22 00:05:01.390 ⇒ 00:05:15.699 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I guess I… let me just open it. So, I dropped a link in there. There’s a tab… I mean, this is the Eden Data Platform documentation. What I’d like to do is, first, everyone just kind of spend, like.
23 00:05:15.960 ⇒ 00:05:23.290 Robert Tseng: 5 minutes reading through the… Q2… active data roadmap.
24 00:05:23.600 ⇒ 00:05:37.109 Robert Tseng: I just need some time to, like, fix some of the formatting, but I also want you guys to see what’s on there. So, thanks, Zoran, for sending over that doc that helped me kind of pull in your objectives. I think there’s still some open areas.
25 00:05:37.110 ⇒ 00:05:49.590 Robert Tseng: So the goal is really to take this list, and we’re gonna just prioritize them on this call. And then hopefully after that, we will have enough context from these to turn these into GAP projects.
26 00:05:50.790 ⇒ 00:06:10.560 Robert Tseng: And then, if Amber joins later, which I know I gave her a last-minute notice, but I would also like to do a recap of, like, how Q1 went. So, I think it’s quite ambitious for the time we have set apart, but, yeah, I will just kind of leave that there. So, not everything on this list is going to be…
27 00:06:10.560 ⇒ 00:06:27.470 Robert Tseng: stuff that you guys are working on, some stuff is gonna be a Wage versus, like, and Pranav, now that the AI work is kicking off tomorrow, so it is gonna… this is gonna look like a lot, but I just kind of need to just have it all in one place so we know, like, all the different work streams that we will…
28 00:06:27.750 ⇒ 00:06:37.159 Robert Tseng: like, choose to take on in this next quarter, and I want to send this to, ELT so they can approve… approve it like they did for the last… last quarter’s, roadmap.
29 00:06:37.550 ⇒ 00:06:44.600 Robert Tseng: Okay, so without further ado, just kind of take 5 minutes of your own time reading through it. I apologize if I…
30 00:06:44.840 ⇒ 00:06:49.509 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m just gonna be messing up the dock as I, like, kind of fill things out. So,
31 00:06:49.760 ⇒ 00:06:51.970 Robert Tseng: Yeah, let’s just kinda take some time.
32 00:06:52.750 ⇒ 00:07:04.210 Greg Stoutenburg: Just one real quick thing, Robert, since we, messaged about this, but didn’t really have a formal chat about it. So this will be independent of, like, who’s going to own what, what responsibilities are, just these are the targets.
33 00:07:04.700 ⇒ 00:07:13.469 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, we’ll set who’s, like, kind of gonna be owning what. I don’t know if we’ll get to that on this call, but I just wanna at least
34 00:07:14.060 ⇒ 00:07:29.700 Robert Tseng: make sure that this covers everything that you guys have been hearing across the board, because you’re all talking to people that I’m also not talking to. And then we can… we can do assignments. If not on this call, like, I’ll… I can assign them out with B later.
35 00:07:30.420 ⇒ 00:07:30.980 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.
36 00:07:31.300 ⇒ 00:07:32.480 Robert Tseng: Okay, great.
37 00:07:59.990 ⇒ 00:08:01.800 Amber Lin: Can someone drop me the link?
38 00:13:00.570 ⇒ 00:13:04.870 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. So, I’ll just kinda… Take over from here.
39 00:13:07.920 ⇒ 00:13:22.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… how I would like to… obviously, this is a lot, like, this is an expansion. So, okay, I know we just kind of spent some time here, but let’s kind of… since Amber just joined the call, I’m gonna actually start from the Q1 recap. So I want us to kind of, like, actually…
40 00:13:22.660 ⇒ 00:13:37.550 Robert Tseng: But these are all the things that were confirmed by ELT, and I want us to kind of have a clear view, like, did this actually play out the way that we expected? If not, like, kind of do a retro on it. And yeah, so I mean, we’ll just kind of go through it. So…
41 00:13:38.000 ⇒ 00:13:44.120 Robert Tseng: We’ll just go top-down, no particular order. First one, repeatable marketing engine. Did this get accomplished?
42 00:13:44.360 ⇒ 00:13:53.109 Robert Tseng: I guess, like, if your name is on there, I’d probably ask you to respond first, and then we can kind of… I may have a response, but I’d want you to at least kind of…
43 00:13:53.230 ⇒ 00:14:01.720 Robert Tseng: give me your perspective on, did we accomplish this? And if not, you know, so… well, I mean, just kind of give me… give me your take on this.
44 00:14:02.630 ⇒ 00:14:18.239 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, sort of. And so what did get accomplished is there’s a plan that Eden has now for how they are to conduct experiments and measure them and report on them, and build on them in successive sprints.
45 00:14:18.340 ⇒ 00:14:36.010 Greg Stoutenburg: And they are more or less following that plan. I’m still going to planning sessions to make sure that that’s enforced. And so there’s what I would… what I would say is, considerable improvement in the way that experimentation is done. So that’s the part that is done.
46 00:14:36.010 ⇒ 00:14:42.479 Greg Stoutenburg: The part that was not done is, I would say designing the experiments themselves.
47 00:14:42.920 ⇒ 00:14:48.459 Greg Stoutenburg: And the clean sweep across
48 00:14:48.600 ⇒ 00:14:57.419 Greg Stoutenburg: VWO, Customer I.O, and the website, along with… Secondly, Not having touched
49 00:14:57.550 ⇒ 00:15:01.610 Greg Stoutenburg: All of those pieces of outreach that are mentioned there, like
50 00:15:01.850 ⇒ 00:15:10.559 Greg Stoutenburg: email, social media, product changes, and intake forms, in a way that is comprehensive and unified. Those are the things that are not done.
51 00:15:11.560 ⇒ 00:15:15.560 Robert Tseng: Okay, so I’m just gonna go and talk about the KPIs. I would say…
52 00:15:15.940 ⇒ 00:15:32.129 Robert Tseng: we’ve increased velocity of experiments launched, whether or not 4 happened, I don’t really know, I haven’t been counting. I don’t think anybody’s been counting, which is not a great sign. We should be able to report on this. This is, like, our chance to… I want to… when I do my Q1 recap with ELT tomorrow, I want to be, like.
53 00:15:32.330 ⇒ 00:15:41.310 Robert Tseng: here, look, these are the shots that we called, these are the ones that we hit, these are the ones we didn’t, like, what adjustments we’re making in the future. So that’s… that’s part of, like, kind of the,
54 00:15:41.450 ⇒ 00:15:56.910 Robert Tseng: what I… what I… part of the narrative I need to have going into next… next week. So yeah, I don’t… I don’t think we should dodge anything. Like, I… if we didn’t hit something, you know, maybe it was the wrong KPI. We… maybe we just didn’t… we stopped tracking it. Like, there could be a number of reasons, but…
55 00:15:56.910 ⇒ 00:16:03.539 Robert Tseng: So I’m just gonna kinda try to take what you said, Greg, I’m gonna try to shoehorn it into these and try to understand, like.
56 00:16:03.540 ⇒ 00:16:04.050 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
57 00:16:04.050 ⇒ 00:16:09.320 Robert Tseng: you know, does that actually… how does that help me tell the story here? So for this one, like, yeah.
58 00:16:09.320 ⇒ 00:16:10.840 Greg Stoutenburg: I can probably get you an error.
59 00:16:11.090 ⇒ 00:16:22.799 Greg Stoutenburg: I can probably get you a number for that on a Monday, because one of the things that I was able to deliver is improvements on measuring this kind of thing. So, probably it’ll come out above 4 experiments per month, but I’ll follow up.
60 00:16:23.430 ⇒ 00:16:38.049 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay. I don’t know about winning experiment, I think this is pretty loosely defined. I think we need to… I mean, we’ll come back to this later, but, yeah, I don’t know if you ever thought about, like, what a winning experiment was, but, you know, that was something that we tried to…
61 00:16:38.080 ⇒ 00:16:46.850 Robert Tseng: That’s what somebody would agree to. Then this one would be… this is… I mean, I wish we had this, like, this would be a huge number to… if I could share with them that, hey.
62 00:16:47.570 ⇒ 00:17:00.740 Robert Tseng: Greg came in, drove this thing, and, like, we launched a bunch of experiments, and we can see an incremental lift. So, like, if… you may not be able to pull that number off the top of your head, but if you can actually follow the experiments that were launched.
63 00:17:00.740 ⇒ 00:17:13.690 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’d like us to take some credit for that, so maybe that ends up being, like, a ticket for, like, Amber, or I guess probably just Amber on this, to go and figure out, like, you know, for the experiments that we did launch, like.
64 00:17:14.220 ⇒ 00:17:23.899 Robert Tseng: what can we say was the incremental lift from… from that? I think that would be… that would pretty much be, like, that would be the highlight of this one, if I… if we could read out on that.
65 00:17:24.339 ⇒ 00:17:42.849 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, understood. For winning experiment, this was actually… this is one where I’d say that the KPI is sort of a little bit defective, because what they were… what they were understanding as winning is just that the, that conversion was not worse than it had been before the experiment.
66 00:17:43.119 ⇒ 00:17:59.409 Greg Stoutenburg: whether or not it, you know, reached lots of customers, or whether or not it drove much revenue, or whether or not it improved by a lot. So this was one of the things that we… that I worked on for a change. Now they look for explicitly higher impact, as in, like, 10% improvement or above.
67 00:17:59.409 ⇒ 00:18:06.609 Greg Stoutenburg: And what the audience reaches, and things like that. So, I’d say that we redefined that second KPI to improve it.
68 00:18:07.280 ⇒ 00:18:13.430 Robert Tseng: Okay. Yeah, so I guess my ask for, like, when I’m… when we’re doing this feedback and your name’s… like, if you can…
69 00:18:13.560 ⇒ 00:18:29.619 Robert Tseng: I think Zoran, thank you, this was helpful. Like, just put together a doc if you can. I know this was Zoran more, like, kind of planning for Q2, but, like, yeah, if you can, based on, like, what we’re discussing right now, just, like, keeping in mind that this is the framing that I want to have, like, just kind of…
70 00:18:29.620 ⇒ 00:18:52.570 Robert Tseng: kind of give me… give me, like, that context so that I can actually turn it into a slide for next week, if that… if that would be helpful. But yeah, I’m gonna be looking to making sure that we’ve addressed every KPI here. Either we’re saying that this KPI is no longer relevant, we… we killed it, and this is what the number is, or, like, you know, whatever, like, we just… we just have to… or, like, we… we adjusted it, because, like, actually, we learned X…
71 00:18:52.570 ⇒ 00:18:59.689 Robert Tseng: And it no longer… and we needed to move the… move the KPI to something else. So, I think that’s what I need to be able to give them.
72 00:19:00.510 ⇒ 00:19:08.920 Robert Tseng: Does that sound good? I already… I mean, I don’t know if you ever used this Google Doc, but I think you were pulled into this a little later in the quarter, totally understand if you haven’t, but…
73 00:19:09.010 ⇒ 00:19:28.119 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, the idea was that for each of these lines, there would be a dock that, like, whoever the owner was, was going to just continue to… was going to use, basically, log your thoughts, but, you know, if that didn’t play out, that’s fine, like, you can go and gather the context elsewhere. But just, like, give it… throw it in a link somewhere that I can actually go and fish for it from.
74 00:19:28.840 ⇒ 00:19:29.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Sure.
75 00:19:29.950 ⇒ 00:19:30.510 Robert Tseng: Cool.
76 00:19:30.620 ⇒ 00:19:46.590 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then I also acknowledge that, like, this part has changed, you know, CSO, EPSL, that kind of structure has changed as well. I don’t even know what this is called CSO. I am changing it. This is now SL. There’s only one CSO.
77 00:19:47.210 ⇒ 00:20:02.179 Robert Tseng: whether it’s Greg, or if it’s me, like, I don’t know yet. I think you guys may have heard different things from Utam, like, I… I don’t want to commit to that yet. Like, I think it was a little bit too early to say, like, what that would be. I think, functionally, it’s… it has been me, but…
78 00:20:02.180 ⇒ 00:20:13.009 Robert Tseng: You know, I think when I’m… when I’m out, it has been Greg, so, like, I… we can… I don’t want to get too lost in this terminology right now. I just kind of think of it as, like, the owner of this work stream. That’s basically what this is.
79 00:20:13.010 ⇒ 00:20:24.090 Robert Tseng: And then your champion is, like, the direct, most senior person who you are, like, who cares about the result of this OKR. So that’s… that’s basically how this is… this is laid out.
80 00:20:24.200 ⇒ 00:20:27.550 Robert Tseng: Okay, so we’ll move on to the second one.
81 00:20:29.520 ⇒ 00:20:33.209 Robert Tseng: Is this… this is not your last name. I’ll put that there. Okay.
82 00:20:33.210 ⇒ 00:20:33.880 Amber Lin: Nope.
83 00:20:33.880 ⇒ 00:20:34.195 Robert Tseng: of.
84 00:20:35.000 ⇒ 00:20:37.859 Amber Lin: I think it’s generated.
85 00:20:38.720 ⇒ 00:20:46.280 Robert Tseng: I was like, that doesn’t… I don’t know who that is. Yeah, so let’s talk about this one. So… yeah, I think…
86 00:20:46.280 ⇒ 00:20:46.830 Amber Lin: We had…
87 00:20:46.830 ⇒ 00:20:51.379 Robert Tseng: Committed to expanding telehealth margins, and yeah, just gonna kind of tell me what… tell me how this went.
88 00:20:52.050 ⇒ 00:21:11.660 Amber Lin: Yeah, I would say this is halfway. This is not to the finish line, as I would like it to be. Margins are mapped based on what I can get, so there’s gaps in margin. But for the things I can get, I can measure, hey, this is the COGS.
89 00:21:11.820 ⇒ 00:21:16.609 Amber Lin: I think to get to margin, we’re not at…
90 00:21:16.750 ⇒ 00:21:32.780 Amber Lin: the level where we can attribute it to ops actions. Currently, we’re still at just overall measurement of, hey, what is this like? There’s no link between action and result, which I’ll like to measure.
91 00:21:34.020 ⇒ 00:21:49.759 Amber Lin: So, that’s not there, and monthly profitability 3X is blocked by some of the missing cogs, but we can give some insight on COGS and profitability per product.
92 00:21:49.830 ⇒ 00:21:59.950 Amber Lin: Of course, this is not accounting for, say, marketing spend, or other internal spend. This is just cogs,
93 00:22:00.030 ⇒ 00:22:03.259 Amber Lin: Which includes, like, shipping, etc, on the products.
94 00:22:04.020 ⇒ 00:22:09.559 Amber Lin: So… To sum it up, I think we’re… we’re not there.
95 00:22:11.630 ⇒ 00:22:17.410 Robert Tseng: Okay, so, yeah, I mean, obviously this one is a little bit… Different in that…
96 00:22:18.160 ⇒ 00:22:25.439 Robert Tseng: we provide the measurement, but we don’t really drive the actions that impact this. So… it’s a little bit, kind of like…
97 00:22:25.500 ⇒ 00:22:44.629 Robert Tseng: a little bit… we’re a little bit more removed from the result, which is both good and bad. Good in that, like, not hitting it, we will not… like, we’re not gonna get, like, dinged for it so much, but also not great in that, like, well, they’re gonna be like, well, what are you doing? Like, how… why are you not impacting this? So, I mean, what I would like to hear… I mean, I…
98 00:22:44.630 ⇒ 00:22:57.120 Robert Tseng: I know, I can understand a little bit what you’re saying, at least on the COGS side, we work closely on that, so I understand, like, kind of COGS measurement, what our capability is there. Margin lift, attributable ops actions, like.
99 00:22:57.300 ⇒ 00:23:06.179 Robert Tseng: I mean, to me, this is really just, you know, like, did we really understand the levers that ops has to move margin?
100 00:23:07.080 ⇒ 00:23:20.940 Robert Tseng: actions have they taken, and, like, has it actually moved? Like, I… even if, like, if you just need… in your next check-in with ops, like, I’m assuming you’re meeting with them often enough, and, like, you can… you can ask, you can just…
101 00:23:21.170 ⇒ 00:23:24.070 Robert Tseng: I would frame it as, like, hey, we need to, like.
102 00:23:24.230 ⇒ 00:23:41.749 Robert Tseng: kind of give an update to ELT on, like, kind of our progress towards telehealth margins. The data tells us part of it, we don’t really know everything on your side, Brad or whoever it is, and I… and, like, we, like, try to get more context from them to see if, like, they’ve… and you put the story together.
103 00:23:41.750 ⇒ 00:23:50.460 Robert Tseng: Because I’ve sat in on meetings when Brad is reading stuff out to Danny. He doesn’t think about numbers at all. His update goes something like.
104 00:23:50.460 ⇒ 00:24:02.439 Robert Tseng: here’s the stuff from Monday, like, this person cleared this number of tickets, this, this, this pharmacy didn’t do well this week. Like, it’s very, like, siloed, like, readouts. Like, he doesn’t…
105 00:24:02.440 ⇒ 00:24:02.940 Amber Lin: Really?
106 00:24:02.940 ⇒ 00:24:16.109 Robert Tseng: really, like, tie it back to the P&L, which is kind of, like, our… we’re trying to look at ops performance and tying it to a P&L. And, I think that’s…
107 00:24:16.340 ⇒ 00:24:26.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, we’re… you’re gonna view your role as, like, you’re helping ELT understand the story of, like, what ops is telling them. They’re just telling them, like, operational…
108 00:24:26.160 ⇒ 00:24:44.310 Robert Tseng: like, adjustments they’re making, but nobody is telling ELT or ops actions actually translating to, like, impact on the P&L. So, I think, between… I mean, I don’t exact… I think Brad would probably give you the context. Maybe Jonah’s looking at this, I’m not entirely sure, but…
109 00:24:45.250 ⇒ 00:24:50.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I would like to be able to share more. I don’t think just saying, like.
110 00:24:50.700 ⇒ 00:25:01.659 Robert Tseng: oh, we kind of got halfway there is enough for me to give an update to ELT. Otherwise, they’re gonna be like, okay, great, like, stop working on this, and we’re gonna lose this workstream, pretty much.
111 00:25:01.790 ⇒ 00:25:17.180 Amber Lin: Gotcha, okay. I’m actually meeting with Rebecca today. She has some, like, reporting she wants for ELT, so I think it kind of ties in there, and then meeting with Brad’s team on Friday, so I should have everything for you before your meeting next week.
112 00:25:17.830 ⇒ 00:25:25.519 Robert Tseng: Okay, great. But yeah, same thing, there’s a doc here that has it, you can throw it in here, or you can swap on the link, whatever is easier for you, I understand.
113 00:25:25.860 ⇒ 00:25:32.119 Robert Tseng: sometimes easier to just generate something new, but you need to put it somewhere that I can actually pull from for when I’m drafting slides.
114 00:25:32.220 ⇒ 00:25:33.310 Robert Tseng: Cool.
115 00:25:33.580 ⇒ 00:25:34.350 Robert Tseng: Okay.
116 00:25:34.640 ⇒ 00:25:45.530 Robert Tseng: For Eden OS, yeah, I mean, B has probably more context on this now, that he’s kind of helping out there. Yeah, I mean, from…
117 00:25:45.660 ⇒ 00:25:57.749 Robert Tseng: I think this is… I mean, I don’t expect you to kind of give a readout on this B yet, but, like, this is really an Oasis court, so, like, I will probably just follow up with him later, but,
118 00:25:57.850 ⇒ 00:26:01.699 Robert Tseng: yeah, these were the expectations. They wanted, like, everything
119 00:26:01.770 ⇒ 00:26:08.419 Robert Tseng: from events tracking to be replicated for Eden OS. I’m pretty sure OASI’s still in progress with that.
120 00:26:08.420 ⇒ 00:26:22.420 Robert Tseng: automated QA checks on critical metrics. I mean, we’re not even really there yet. Eden OS didn’t launch this quarter the way that they expected to. So, I… I think this is gonna pretty much be the same exact OKR for Q2, but it’s just gonna…
121 00:26:22.420 ⇒ 00:26:40.590 Robert Tseng: the timeline just shifted, so I’m not really expecting this to be, like, all clear, but I will need to give a progress update on this next week, because, yeah, it’s been, like, two weeks since, Surf’s team supposedly winded down, and I haven’t shared anything about EdenOS with them.
122 00:26:42.120 ⇒ 00:26:49.540 Brylle Girang: Yeah, totally not met yet. We’re not even at production. The last update from Oasis is that everything is still in staging.
123 00:26:51.410 ⇒ 00:26:52.100 Robert Tseng: Okay.
124 00:26:52.550 ⇒ 00:27:08.959 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think this is gonna get… we’re gonna get hung up on this with… with… I mean, they’re gonna wanna know, like, what’s stopping us from production, like, so… I… I… I don’t really… yeah, so… if you… can help me by…
125 00:27:09.100 ⇒ 00:27:15.899 Robert Tseng: yeah, we also just need a doc, or if you have a Gantt, or whatever it is, like, just give me something for, like, why…
126 00:27:16.560 ⇒ 00:27:24.870 Robert Tseng: you know, like, these were the… this was the last status update I gave them. It was like, intakes are not completed, Diego’s not really giving us updates.
127 00:27:24.870 ⇒ 00:27:37.189 Robert Tseng: And now I’m pulling in Bryle for my team to be able to run these check-ins in OS. That was the last time they heard from me about this. So, you know, just kind of giving them a status check on the next… on what’s happened since then.
128 00:27:37.190 ⇒ 00:27:41.200 Robert Tseng: And not just what’s happened, but, like, how we’re adjusting
129 00:27:41.200 ⇒ 00:27:55.589 Robert Tseng: the project, giving them an expectation of how long this thing got delayed, when they’re gonna go live, like, they’re gonna wanna know that. So, I think it’s less about, like, giving them a slide of our wins here, but it’s more, kind of, I’m probably gonna show them, like.
130 00:27:55.920 ⇒ 00:28:05.630 Robert Tseng: the GATT, and I’m gonna take a screenshot on the GATT and call out how things have adjusted, and I think that’s how this OKR is gonna be,
131 00:28:05.790 ⇒ 00:28:07.240 Robert Tseng: Presented next week.
132 00:28:08.250 ⇒ 00:28:08.920 Brylle Girang: Okay.
133 00:28:11.050 ⇒ 00:28:20.010 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. So is that clear? Like, you just, yeah, just kind of give me the Gantt, and then also, like, let me know, like, how things have been adjusted since, you know, like, the way that we laid it out here.
134 00:28:20.950 ⇒ 00:28:28.179 Brylle Girang: Yeah, okay, my only risk here is that Awashi’s out until tomorrow, so I will be able to work on this with him by Monday.
135 00:28:29.200 ⇒ 00:28:31.819 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, yeah, I think by Monday would be great.
136 00:28:32.030 ⇒ 00:28:37.599 Robert Tseng: Okay, so we’ll move on, keep moving. So, MarTech side,
137 00:28:38.470 ⇒ 00:28:42.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think intake, this also didn’t hit, but I mean, I’ll let you go, Zoran.
138 00:28:43.190 ⇒ 00:28:46.640 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I mean, you know what we were focused on.
139 00:28:46.800 ⇒ 00:29:01.010 Zoran Selinger: The whole Q1 was essentially… so we were activating channels, making sure that that tracking is in place, and then building a reporting framework that Mitesh actually wants to use.
140 00:29:01.120 ⇒ 00:29:10.499 Zoran Selinger: Essentially, from… there’s… when you read the context, field there, in the column H,
141 00:29:10.550 ⇒ 00:29:23.349 Zoran Selinger: Essentially, where we go to is, okay, we just set up heatmaps and session replays and reporting on those things, and we can only now start
142 00:29:23.820 ⇒ 00:29:28.579 Zoran Selinger: making hypotheses for testing and all of that, all of those things. So…
143 00:29:29.430 ⇒ 00:29:37.099 Zoran Selinger: We essentially were just putting ourselves into a position where we could start working on this.
144 00:29:37.340 ⇒ 00:29:46.639 Zoran Selinger: Two things about, conversion rate, like, click rates and conversion rates. So, this is, in my mind.
145 00:29:46.840 ⇒ 00:29:53.329 Zoran Selinger: This is connected to the… to the first, like, repeatable marketing experimentation engine.
146 00:29:55.360 ⇒ 00:29:56.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
147 00:29:56.360 ⇒ 00:30:00.090 Zoran Selinger: So, it’s connected to that. Second,
148 00:30:00.510 ⇒ 00:30:05.839 Zoran Selinger: Are they… are they getting an agency that’s going to… going to do that in the future?
149 00:30:06.430 ⇒ 00:30:14.279 Robert Tseng: Yeah, they have a… Well, I actually, no, Propel has been doing, CIO optimization, so…
150 00:30:15.010 ⇒ 00:30:18.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t know, this is probably… that’s not… they don’t… they’re not doing intakes right now.
151 00:30:18.940 ⇒ 00:30:33.920 Zoran Selinger: Okay, okay. So, I think, yeah, it would be great to keep that work stream, but really, we are only at the stage where we can start using the reports and start proposing ideas.
152 00:30:34.910 ⇒ 00:30:35.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
153 00:30:35.260 ⇒ 00:30:47.449 Zoran Selinger: I think we are at a stage now where we can actually start doing that. Even, like, 2 days ago, I, I created channel-specific reports on Mixpanel that show us drop-off rates.
154 00:30:47.800 ⇒ 00:30:49.360 Zoran Selinger: Through the intakes?
155 00:30:49.860 ⇒ 00:30:50.540 Zoran Selinger: Mom.
156 00:30:50.910 ⇒ 00:31:03.199 Zoran Selinger: So we can actually start looking at, like, channel-specific drop-off rates for each step, and start proposing some things. But, like I said, that only happened, like, 2 days ago, is that,
157 00:31:03.400 ⇒ 00:31:07.710 Zoran Selinger: I… Created that report, that particular report.
158 00:31:08.360 ⇒ 00:31:14.799 Zoran Selinger: So it was… and basically just felt, Q1, Mitesh was…
159 00:31:15.120 ⇒ 00:31:19.720 Zoran Selinger: only cared about those two things. Activating channels.
160 00:31:21.580 ⇒ 00:31:25.490 Zoran Selinger: Building a reporting framework, that he’s going to use.
161 00:31:27.780 ⇒ 00:31:34.040 Zoran Selinger: It was all about… Yeah, so… it was absolutely all about that. They did not care about anything else.
162 00:31:35.300 ⇒ 00:31:36.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
163 00:31:36.400 ⇒ 00:31:53.519 Robert Tseng: I hear you. So, what I’m seeing here is that, like, yeah, I think there were a few things, big things, that, like, weren’t actually captured. So, we didn’t end up doing this, or, like, we did very little of it. We ended up spending more of our time, like, yeah, Zoran’s work isn’t really captured well in Q1 from this OKR, so…
164 00:31:53.580 ⇒ 00:32:02.510 Robert Tseng: I mean, they know this already, like, we tell it in the updates, but I want to, like, zoom out and go back to this doc. So, like, I think what I will do, what I need to do is…
165 00:32:02.760 ⇒ 00:32:23.109 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I just, like, gotta put a couple placeholder things. I’ll fill it out, I’ll try to, like, get, you know, what you guys worked on, and I’ll probably have you take a look at it, make sure I represented it well. And then, obviously, Greg kind of took on this Omni migration thing, too, that was not… that’s not… well, it wasn’t here. So, these were, like, 3 things that got added in that, like, we didn’t expect. So, at the start of Q1.
166 00:32:23.830 ⇒ 00:32:31.329 Robert Tseng: Okay, and then, yeah, I mean, I guess I’ll just say, yeah, I built out the WBR MBR. Haven’t done an MBR for them, so…
167 00:32:32.000 ⇒ 00:32:37.590 Robert Tseng: But whatever, like, I think I more or less built out what they wanted for this, so there’s no…
168 00:32:37.940 ⇒ 00:32:39.400 Robert Tseng: problem there.
169 00:32:40.150 ⇒ 00:32:59.750 Robert Tseng: Okay, and then we have some aspirational things. They’re aspirational, because, like, I don’t think we actually worked on them, like, that’s why I moved them to aspirational. So, yeah, I’m just gonna assume that none of this was… was done. But, okay, so let me just kind of pause there, and, like, I think the story that I want to tell to this team specifically is…
170 00:32:59.910 ⇒ 00:33:16.060 Robert Tseng: okay, like, we came into Q1 having, like, we got to… we got to, like, plan our own roadmap, kind of, for once. Like, we set all these targets, they approved. For the most part, we did end up working on these things. Obviously, we expected Eden to bring in other things that we needed to, like, work on as well.
171 00:33:16.060 ⇒ 00:33:20.840 Robert Tseng: And so, like, there were a few work streams that came in, but for the most part, we were, like.
172 00:33:20.840 ⇒ 00:33:29.050 Robert Tseng: yeah, we, like, we were able to drive some of these initiatives forward on our own, and they let us. I will say that I don’t think…
173 00:33:29.270 ⇒ 00:33:33.879 Robert Tseng: But I don’t feel like I have a good story coming out of this. I can’t show…
174 00:33:34.520 ⇒ 00:33:48.629 Robert Tseng: we increased conversion rates on intake forms by X percent. I don’t know the incremental lift in dollar attributed to experiments, I don’t think I’ve ever heard that from this team. And, yeah, we didn’t really hit any of these, like, targets. So, I can’t come to them and be like.
175 00:33:48.630 ⇒ 00:33:56.820 Robert Tseng: alright, Q1 is over, we helped hit these targets, like, I want… like, I want to expand, like, our contract, or, like.
176 00:33:57.400 ⇒ 00:34:12.019 Robert Tseng: get a bonus for things or whatever. Like, I just… I feel like I have… I don’t have any levers to really show them that, like, we should be… we should be paid more. So, I would say, from that sense, like, this was not a…
177 00:34:12.989 ⇒ 00:34:20.799 Robert Tseng: like, yeah, we maintained, which is obviously a win in and of itself, like, we already know how hard it is to just maintain contracts, but, like, we…
178 00:34:21.010 ⇒ 00:34:29.189 Robert Tseng: I don’t think we, like… Succeeded at, like, transitioning over to outcome-based, kind of, like, goal setting.
179 00:34:29.300 ⇒ 00:34:39.760 Robert Tseng: hitting those targets, and then getting rewarded for them. So, in that sense, I’m like, hmm, Q1 didn’t go as well as I was hoping, because,
180 00:34:39.870 ⇒ 00:34:51.800 Robert Tseng: yeah, you know, we have a one-year-long relationship with Eden. It took a lot of work to get to this point where… and you can see on no other data client do we actually have the trust, and I, like, have the ability to set our own goals.
181 00:34:51.800 ⇒ 00:34:59.980 Robert Tseng: And, yeah, like, and every other client, we’re just reacting to whatever they tell us. So, I was really hoping that this would be the one where
182 00:34:59.980 ⇒ 00:35:13.600 Robert Tseng: we would set some reasonable goals, we would hit them, and I would be able to negotiate for… for more, like, yeah, basically bonuses or, you know, budget for… for this team. So, I don’t think we… we did that well in Q1. So,
183 00:35:13.900 ⇒ 00:35:21.890 Robert Tseng: you know, in that sense, like, I… I don’t know, it’s kind of like… it’s not… it’s not bad news, but it’s… it’s not like… yeah, I just… I feel like…
184 00:35:22.200 ⇒ 00:35:41.670 Robert Tseng: I want to still aim for this in Q2, and so I’m trying to take some more time to set more realistic goals and kind of realign the, you know, the ELT. Like, I still want them to give us this level of flexibility, you know, but if they’re, like, just replacing our work by, like, pulling in agencies.
185 00:35:41.670 ⇒ 00:35:50.670 Robert Tseng: you know, CIO optimization like this, we lost this. Like, ProPal’s working on this. And if what Zoran is saying, like, okay, CTR improvement, like.
186 00:35:50.670 ⇒ 00:36:05.630 Robert Tseng: and they’re bringing in other agencies to drive intakes, then we’re losing on all of those, like, outcome-based, like, targets. And even, like, the product analytics work, which isn’t even here, like, Mixpanel is barely touched on here. Mixed panel is, you know, if we lose that one, then, like.
187 00:36:05.790 ⇒ 00:36:21.710 Robert Tseng: it just comes… we just end up being, like, the data team, like, thing that we usually are, that’s just, like, a fixed budget. We don’t really have true outcome-based pricing. So, yeah, like, I… I want to just call that out so you guys can see, like, I…
188 00:36:21.790 ⇒ 00:36:33.209 Robert Tseng: you know, I guess what I’m… what I was trying to do, kind of where I feel like things didn’t really land, and yeah, I think, like, you know, we can take a little bit of time.
189 00:36:33.320 ⇒ 00:36:43.889 Robert Tseng: like, feedback on that. You guys probably don’t think about your work on this client in this way that often, so I want to see, you know, any reactions to kind of what I’m saying here.
190 00:36:45.820 ⇒ 00:36:58.399 Zoran Selinger: I agree 100%. I think when, one of the, one of the goals, aspirational, row 16, was, kind of getting into,
191 00:36:59.430 ⇒ 00:37:05.959 Zoran Selinger: a little bit strategic work with, with Judd, and he just, it was very obvious
192 00:37:06.170 ⇒ 00:37:16.580 Zoran Selinger: for me, that they do not at least jod. They do not see us as… as… You know?
193 00:37:17.250 ⇒ 00:37:20.110 Zoran Selinger: Partners in running those initiatives.
194 00:37:21.380 ⇒ 00:37:26.849 Zoran Selinger: And, like… I don’t think we kind of turned…
195 00:37:29.330 ⇒ 00:37:41.060 Zoran Selinger: we cannot change their opinion in Q1, you just stay the same. Yeah. Yeah, they just don’t see us as people to do these initiatives.
196 00:37:41.290 ⇒ 00:37:46.469 Zoran Selinger: And I still think we shouldn’t… We should turn these around.
197 00:37:46.570 ⇒ 00:37:55.900 Zoran Selinger: And actually try to get them to start thinking about us as tactical and strategic partners in running these things.
198 00:37:56.180 ⇒ 00:37:59.860 Zoran Selinger: Because, yeah, we don’t want to be one of the agencies.
199 00:37:59.980 ⇒ 00:38:07.140 Zoran Selinger: That… one of the vendors that work for them, we want to work with them, and yeah, Q1,
200 00:38:07.440 ⇒ 00:38:17.399 Zoran Selinger: yeah, we did… we made no progress on… on that stage, in that manner, in… in Q1, definitely.
201 00:38:18.610 ⇒ 00:38:25.709 Zoran Selinger: I don’t know if our… it could be that just it was… Maybe too ambitious?
202 00:38:26.440 ⇒ 00:38:28.770 Zoran Selinger: for the goals, I’m not sure.
203 00:38:29.280 ⇒ 00:38:31.510 Zoran Selinger: But I think if we…
204 00:38:31.940 ⇒ 00:38:37.050 Zoran Selinger: if we were to turn this around, we need to hit Q2 goals, for sure. That’s…
205 00:38:37.220 ⇒ 00:38:37.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
206 00:38:37.580 ⇒ 00:38:45.129 Zoran Selinger: I think that’s… That’s a must. We simply must… Hit Q2 volts.
207 00:38:46.830 ⇒ 00:38:55.249 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I agree with you, and I mean, I don’t want to take up all the time, so if you guys… if anyone else has other feedback, let me know. But yeah, to Zoran’s point, like.
208 00:38:55.450 ⇒ 00:39:17.809 Robert Tseng: I mean, we… we… we set goals… I mean, I would say we set these goals, and then day-to-day, we, like, never really came back to them. We just really run things out of linear, we were doing our regular stand-ups, like, we were just running things… we were expecting different outcomes by doing the same things we were doing before, and I think that was not… like, I think that’s… I take, obviously, I take fault for that, like, because I didn’t really…
209 00:39:17.990 ⇒ 00:39:37.779 Robert Tseng: I wasn’t really, like, kind of dialed in and, like, really pushing this team to think about it this way. I think in Q2, I want to take more… I want to do that more. And I might, like, that’s why I’m saying I might reshuffle the team. Like, I don’t think it’s a team issue, necessarily. I think it’s a focus thing, and, like, for those of you that are, like, kind of working on these work streams, like.
210 00:39:37.780 ⇒ 00:39:39.600 Robert Tseng: Having the end in mind, like.
211 00:39:39.600 ⇒ 00:39:53.609 Robert Tseng: we need to show that we win these, like, that we hit these KPIs, so that they start to take us… so that they take us seriously, and they be like, oh, shoot, when Brainforge says they’re gonna drive this metric, they actually, like, impact our team, and we hit it. So…
212 00:39:53.610 ⇒ 00:40:01.660 Robert Tseng: Well then, yeah, we want them to keep doing that, and, you know, that’s… and then that changes the narrative, and we’ll be able to… we’ll be able to move up in pricing.
213 00:40:01.710 ⇒ 00:40:08.599 Robert Tseng: The only way that I was able to grow Eden’s account this quarter was by tacking on more work, which
214 00:40:08.730 ⇒ 00:40:12.450 Robert Tseng: Which is just, like, this AI work that’s starting tomorrow. And it’s like.
215 00:40:12.700 ⇒ 00:40:25.250 Robert Tseng: that’s one way to grow, but it’s… it’s so hard to do that. It just means that we have more people to manage. It was already, like… and maybe that’s… that is the problem. We have too many work streams that, like, we’re doing
216 00:40:25.250 ⇒ 00:40:44.210 Robert Tseng: And so, I’m already, like, my time is already spent just trying to, like, get a handle of all the things that we’re doing, and to be able to communicate that to them, so that I can’t really assist any one of you to really drive forward on one of these outcomes. So, yeah, like, I think it’s a classic kind of example of, like.
217 00:40:44.270 ⇒ 00:40:59.580 Robert Tseng: there’s too much breadth, and, like, we’re not having enough depth, I’m, like, kind of just leaning on you guys as the service leaders to, like, own the depth of your workstream, and to push things forward there. So, I don’t know, like, I feel like I’m a little bit, like, you know.
218 00:40:59.580 ⇒ 00:41:05.040 Robert Tseng: I guess, by default, like, I wanted Eden to grow, so I grew it by selling the AI work.
219 00:41:05.140 ⇒ 00:41:11.630 Robert Tseng: So, but that just meant that we have… that just means that I added on another workstream for the people that are working on eating.
220 00:41:11.960 ⇒ 00:41:16.900 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, I guess in that sense, I was also…
221 00:41:17.210 ⇒ 00:41:27.579 Robert Tseng: not patient enough for these KPIs to be hit, so that I went and I just sold another work… work stream to them. So yeah, I guess, like, I’m… I’m a little bit…
222 00:41:28.060 ⇒ 00:41:39.490 Robert Tseng: you know, I’m thinking out loud a bit with you guys here, but, like, I… I know… I think… I’m trying… I’m diagnosing, like, that’s… that’s what I see happening, and, like, you know.
223 00:41:39.490 ⇒ 00:41:53.739 Robert Tseng: I’m a little bit unsure about, like, what we’re going to do differently heading into Q2, so that I can actually turn the work that you guys are doing into outcome-based
224 00:41:53.740 ⇒ 00:42:00.409 Robert Tseng: like, results that I can go and grow the account that way. Does that make sense?
225 00:42:02.350 ⇒ 00:42:03.190 Zoran Selinger: Yes.
226 00:42:03.190 ⇒ 00:42:04.320 Amber Lin: Yeah.
227 00:42:04.320 ⇒ 00:42:07.329 Greg Stoutenburg: I think for my part… yeah, sorry, go ahead, Amber.
228 00:42:07.630 ⇒ 00:42:08.550 Amber Lin: No, go ahead.
229 00:42:09.500 ⇒ 00:42:19.000 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I was just gonna say, for my part, I felt like many of the things that I was asked to work on were… I guess I’d put them in the category of, like, enablement. So, like… Yeah.
230 00:42:19.000 ⇒ 00:42:19.430 Zoran Selinger: Porsche.
231 00:42:20.320 ⇒ 00:42:40.539 Greg Stoutenburg: you know, Omni was a whole bunch of work in February and the beginning of March, and then, you know, the outcome is KPI, now you have Omni. You know what I mean? And so you can measure the impact of certain things that we’re doing, but that doesn’t, like, by itself show, okay, now the KPI that we’ve hit is this revenue target, or something like that. And so…
232 00:42:40.540 ⇒ 00:42:41.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
233 00:42:41.080 ⇒ 00:42:53.449 Greg Stoutenburg: As far as… I mean, well, as far as… one thing is telling the story, and then I guess the other thing is, like, looking into, looking into the next quarter, like, which projects we take on that…
234 00:42:53.790 ⇒ 00:43:05.440 Greg Stoutenburg: just have a more obvious and convincing KPI that is something we could say, okay, here’s an outcome where we drove your business. I guess that’s something that we should keep in mind when we look at Q2 as a thought.
235 00:43:06.060 ⇒ 00:43:06.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
236 00:43:06.810 ⇒ 00:43:20.089 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and I want, you know, this group, I want you to be thinking about it that way. Like, there is more upside to the work that you’re doing on this client. Like, I didn’t… I purposely didn’t pull in, you know, all the other engineers onto this call, because, like, there’s not really, like…
237 00:43:20.480 ⇒ 00:43:37.699 Robert Tseng: it’s a little bit different. Like, anything that’s, like, maintenance, like, adding new data, whatever, like, data platform work, yes, we need to do that. That’s, like, maintenance work. That’s a cost center for this contract. The more we take on of that, the lower our margins. But the work that you guys are doing, like, that’s how you’re gonna grow our margins on this account, right?
238 00:43:37.700 ⇒ 00:43:48.719 Robert Tseng: So, like, this account, sure, they pay us, like, a big lump sum of money, but, like, margins-wise, it isn’t definitely not top. It’s, like, maybe 35% to 40% margins, where our average is 63% across the board.
239 00:43:48.720 ⇒ 00:43:58.299 Robert Tseng: So, like, yeah, I mean… I mean, it’s a little… maybe too ambitious to say that all of us are strategists, but I want you to be thinking about it that way, where, like.
240 00:43:58.320 ⇒ 00:44:21.420 Robert Tseng: you know, when you are thinking, you know, I’m asking to, like, for this one, we’re restructuring some analysis here, like, to me, this… there’s a very tangible outcome. If we lower COGS, if we… if we increase margin for their product, then, yeah, that gives… that gives me a clear story. And so, like, yeah, Amber, I can work with you, and we talk here and there, and working with Jasmine, maybe I’m not as looped in as you are, but, like.
241 00:44:21.420 ⇒ 00:44:43.860 Robert Tseng: I want to find you those wins so that I can go and I can get a percentage of that for the team, and then that increases margins. All of you get… have more upside on this client as well, that allows me to execute spot bonuses like I did, you know, with Zoran for Ellie, like, you know, stuff like that. Like, that’s… that’s… that to me is the upside of, like, being in the position of a strategist. So…
242 00:44:43.860 ⇒ 00:45:01.750 Robert Tseng: You know, I guess, like, it’s… it is a little bit hard to sift through the noise, you guys have to go through meetings, like, there are things that they ask us to do, but always have that filter in mind, and, like, kind of heading into Q2, I want you to really own the KPIs that you’re… that you’re setting. Like, I… I kind of just…
243 00:45:01.750 ⇒ 00:45:08.629 Robert Tseng: wrote them here for now, but I think we have a little bit of time. Like, Q2 hasn’t started, we have the end of this week, pretty much
244 00:45:08.690 ⇒ 00:45:30.199 Robert Tseng: if we need a little bit more time than Wednesday of next week, I’m trying to present it to, ELT by next Wednesday, but, like, take the time to really, like, workshop these to a point where it actually is an outcome, that if we win, that I can go and say, like, we should get more. Like, right now, a lot of this is still, like, maintenance KPIs, which is…
245 00:45:30.200 ⇒ 00:45:46.120 Robert Tseng: you know, maybe we just consolidate, just pick, like, one or two. Like, you know, a lot of this is obviously AI-generated off of, like, the docs that you… or the info that you guys have given me. So, yeah, I think maybe a good… a better use of our time for remaining time, is just to kind of talk through the objectives.
246 00:45:46.120 ⇒ 00:45:50.980 Robert Tseng: And then we’ll do assignments, and then, yeah, like, this is kind of like a…
247 00:45:51.120 ⇒ 00:45:55.189 Robert Tseng: if your name is there, like, I want you to go and, like, actually try to
248 00:45:56.960 ⇒ 00:46:08.899 Robert Tseng: you could… you can workshop with me, like, what those… what those KPIs would be, and, yeah, make it something that you feel like you could actually meaningfully go and hit in Q2.
249 00:46:09.750 ⇒ 00:46:12.570 Robert Tseng: Does that… does that sound okay for the rest of our time?
250 00:46:12.800 ⇒ 00:46:13.340 Amber Lin: Yeah.
251 00:46:14.070 ⇒ 00:46:33.619 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. So, yeah, I mean, Zoran, your work is, like, pretty clear here, but, like, you know, maybe I’ll just, you know, say, like, you know, if there’s any… and I know you left some comments here. I know that you’re being asked to do things like switching providers from Catalyst to Everflow. I think anomaly detection, this is, like, a pure data platform task.
252 00:46:34.550 ⇒ 00:46:39.450 Robert Tseng: So I wouldn’t even necessarily consider this, like… like, yeah, you will do some of the
253 00:46:39.960 ⇒ 00:46:57.839 Robert Tseng: like, the QA, obviously, but, like, this to me is a data platform, task. Like, I think this is something that, like, you know, Awash and engineers need to kind of help drive for you. Like, I don’t expect this to be most of your time. Like, you should spend as little time as you… you can on this, because what you’re more valuable in is, like.
254 00:46:57.840 ⇒ 00:47:13.810 Robert Tseng: kind of, yeah, like, trying to look for the upside, right? So, that’s that. On the mixed panel edge tracking data quality, that’s interesting, like, you know, if we can really support attribution conversion. So, I’m kind of sensing that this is a little bit more, like, trying to pull in some of, like, the goals that we had around
255 00:47:13.810 ⇒ 00:47:15.730 Robert Tseng: Like, kind of…
256 00:47:15.730 ⇒ 00:47:27.110 Robert Tseng: better, like, kind of… yeah, I mean, there aren’t that many inputs to this… this… this business. They… they just need to drive conversions, and they… they need to drive repeat purchases on the marketing side, so…
257 00:47:27.110 ⇒ 00:47:37.110 Robert Tseng: Whatever you guys are working on on the marketing side that can tie to that, that’s what you should focus on. And so, maybe they already kind of, like, specified that
258 00:47:37.130 ⇒ 00:47:49.349 Robert Tseng: you know, they want to get Mixpanel to be more effective so that they can do that, but… so maybe we need a little bit… need a little bit more time on, like, figuring out, is this actually the right objective, or, like, you know, how do we describe this differently?
259 00:47:49.350 ⇒ 00:47:58.400 Robert Tseng: So I… we don’t have to answer that now, but I’m just gonna kind of put that out there as, like, hey, I think this should be reworked so that the objective clearly drives conversions.
260 00:47:58.410 ⇒ 00:48:05.870 Robert Tseng: or, like, drive to repeat purchases, or both, like, in some way. And I think increasing attribution does it, but it’s also, like.
261 00:48:05.870 ⇒ 00:48:18.859 Robert Tseng: It’s more indirect than just saying it actually does… what you’re working on is trying to improve conversions. So, I would kind of push that back on you, Soran, to kind of think through a bit more, and then, like, yeah, like, just kind of do another iteration of this.
262 00:48:19.570 ⇒ 00:48:31.080 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I just, in general, I feel like… Anything marketing right now is… if… We… if they scale.
263 00:48:31.720 ⇒ 00:48:33.650 Zoran Selinger: with an acceptable NCAC.
264 00:48:33.920 ⇒ 00:48:41.260 Zoran Selinger: they’re gonna be happy, okay? Yeah. That’s… that’s the idea. Whatever we can do to support that, and we can…
265 00:48:41.670 ⇒ 00:48:43.020 Zoran Selinger: show that
266 00:48:43.220 ⇒ 00:48:56.940 Zoran Selinger: okay, they were confident enough in whatever reporting suite that they have and that they use, and that they use to make a decision on scaling this channel or this channel. If we contribute
267 00:48:57.260 ⇒ 00:49:04.289 Zoran Selinger: To that confidence, That’s… our goal, that’s what Mitesh wants from us.
268 00:49:04.440 ⇒ 00:49:05.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
269 00:49:05.530 ⇒ 00:49:07.989 Zoran Selinger: At least that’s what Mitesh wants from us, right?
270 00:49:08.150 ⇒ 00:49:24.090 Zoran Selinger: So I think everything needs to… everything… marketing here needs to feed into their confidence of scaling at an acceptable NCAC. That’s it. If we can achieve that, if we can… if we can be there when they do achieve that.
271 00:49:24.520 ⇒ 00:49:27.650 Zoran Selinger: They’re gonna be happy with us as well.
272 00:49:28.780 ⇒ 00:49:29.340 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
273 00:49:29.340 ⇒ 00:49:29.920 Zoran Selinger: But that’s what I…
274 00:49:29.920 ⇒ 00:49:35.580 Robert Tseng: And we… and we are doing that, and you… and, you know, Zoran, you’ve established yourself, trusted copper not there, like.
275 00:49:35.580 ⇒ 00:49:55.490 Robert Tseng: there’s always, like… I mean, I think your workstream is so integrated with their team, it’s… this is the core reason why we don’t have big issue blow-ups with this client, because they do believe that we’ve helped them increase their confidence, like, and that… and that goes a long way. So I’m not saying that… yeah, I mean, that totally is, like, the core of, like, what we do.
276 00:49:55.490 ⇒ 00:50:03.279 Robert Tseng: And yeah, like, I think you’re exactly right. I also want to kind of go the step further of saying, like.
277 00:50:03.440 ⇒ 00:50:17.159 Robert Tseng: you know, if we can not just help them increase the confidence in their decisions, but if we’re telling them, like, what decisions they could make, like, I was spending a little bit of time reading through Propel’s work. It’s, like, so ridiculously easy.
278 00:50:17.950 ⇒ 00:50:21.460 Robert Tseng: And I know how much they’re getting paid, like,
279 00:50:23.490 ⇒ 00:50:25.220 Robert Tseng: Sorry, let me just try to…
280 00:50:28.320 ⇒ 00:50:34.949 Robert Tseng: Look, This… this is what they’re paying them 15K a month to do, which is, like.
281 00:50:35.410 ⇒ 00:50:46.000 Robert Tseng: just… this is an AI-generated summary of the Facebook groups that, like, they’re marketing to. This is what Propel sends to Judd, tells them, like.
282 00:50:46.130 ⇒ 00:51:00.819 Robert Tseng: Okay, just some diagnosis, some pattern, whatever, and just gives them a list of quick wins, medium, strategic, long-term best. This is no different than what we could do. We could do exactly the same thing. This is what I wanted to see on the, like, on the, like…
283 00:51:00.930 ⇒ 00:51:15.570 Robert Tseng: win back 5% of true customers. I mean, yeah, sure, we were doing it more from, like, redefining cohorts, but, like, it’s like, this is the money that’s on the table, you know? Like, it’s… they’re literally… I mean, they have no idea… they don’t know the data better than we do. Like, they have no freaking clue.
284 00:51:15.570 ⇒ 00:51:22.029 Robert Tseng: So, like, I want us to, like, see ourselves not as just technical experts that maintain and know their data, but, like.
285 00:51:22.030 ⇒ 00:51:27.759 Robert Tseng: Any of you could go and make these same recommendations and get that same budget from them.
286 00:51:27.770 ⇒ 00:51:35.550 Robert Tseng: It’s just, like, I, like, I mean, maybe you guys don’t exactly know how Edenmarks their products still, in which case I’d say, like.
287 00:51:35.610 ⇒ 00:51:55.969 Robert Tseng: just, like, poke around, and just try to pick one thing, and just try to go down a little rabbit hole, try to understand it. Like, this… I’m telling you, this is a month’s work from Propel, and, like, this is their… this was their analysis that they presented to Eden. Eden pays them 15 grand a month. Like, I… I looked at this, and I was like.
288 00:51:56.140 ⇒ 00:52:06.329 Robert Tseng: why do we not do this already? Like, this is so easy! So, anyway, like, I’m not gonna belabor the point right now, but, like.
289 00:52:06.720 ⇒ 00:52:25.640 Robert Tseng: I’m just saying, like, you guys should not be deterred from, like, thinking strategically, like, and you will… and anyway, like, I think that’s, you know, that’s all I’m trying to say here. Okay, so I guess with that in mind, like, there’s a bunch of other stuff here. Whether these are the right ones, I guess I look at this, I’m like, okay, there’s some data platform work here.
290 00:52:25.640 ⇒ 00:52:34.840 Robert Tseng: There needs to be some consolidation. Marketing data platform work is always there. There’s some new data that needs to come in to kick off the AI work.
291 00:52:35.100 ⇒ 00:52:44.069 Robert Tseng: And then we’re EHC, we’re doing some more maintenance there. They want to get off of, like, Corral and Tsunodi and GHL, whatever, so, like.
292 00:52:44.070 ⇒ 00:53:00.410 Robert Tseng: it actually looks like the data platform team is much busier this quarter than the last quarter. They had, like, literally one thing, which was just EOS, or Eden Health OS, and then obviously helping you guys with ad hoc stuff. But they actually… it looks like I’m gonna have to shift the budget in terms of, like.
293 00:53:00.470 ⇒ 00:53:23.579 Robert Tseng: I’m expecting, kind of, awaits and kind of engineers to be working on a lot more stuff in Q2, which means we probably have to slow down on some of this other strategy work, because I didn’t unlock more budget. So, I guess, like, I just want to make sure we have all of the active things that you guys feel like you… you’re kind of, like, bidding with me, honestly, like, on, like, who… like, whose work is, like, clearly articulated that I believe that you can actually win on.
294 00:53:23.580 ⇒ 00:53:30.790 Robert Tseng: I’m gonna keep that in there, I’m gonna tell ELT we’re gonna hit that target, and then whoever’s work is like, I’m not really sure if you’re gonna really be able to hit it.
295 00:53:30.790 ⇒ 00:53:35.690 Robert Tseng: And, like, keeping in mind that I need to prioritize all this data… other data platform work.
296 00:53:35.690 ⇒ 00:53:59.959 Robert Tseng: I’ll probably take you off the project, or move… or deprioritize it for Q2. Like, I think that’s, you know, that’s the blunt way of saying, like, that’s how I need to prioritize, kind of, like, this team’s… this… this team’s time moving forward. I think the only one that’s, like, pretty set, like, is gonna stay on this client is… is Ron, because, like, obviously, like… or, I mean, it’s not obvious, like, what he’s doing is… is, like, you know, the team… the team needs it, and, like, I think
297 00:53:59.960 ⇒ 00:54:14.669 Robert Tseng: That’s clear. But I think everything else on the table is kind of like, I don’t know, like, we’ll… we’ll have to see. Like, Omni, like, does Greg need to be on it? Like, can I just, like, enfold into the data platform team? And it may not be run as well, but, like, at least, like, I can just…
298 00:54:14.730 ⇒ 00:54:31.660 Robert Tseng: have, like, Demi go and meet with, the… do some basic enablement, whatever, and I can move Greg off. Those are the decisions that I’m trying to make, leading up to… leading up to Wednesday of next week. So, I guess the homework here is just, like.
299 00:54:31.920 ⇒ 00:54:37.460 Robert Tseng: You know, if there’s an objective here that you want to basically pitch to me,
300 00:54:38.030 ⇒ 00:54:41.700 Robert Tseng: And, like, you know, assign yourself to it, like, make a case for it.
301 00:54:41.840 ⇒ 00:54:56.629 Robert Tseng: because it’s something that you know that is important to the client, like, I don’t see everything. Like, I’m really relying on you guys, but if not, I’m gonna use my best judgment with what I already have here, and I’m just gonna basically whittle this down until it really makes sense. So, that’s…
302 00:54:56.640 ⇒ 00:55:12.060 Robert Tseng: that’s basically, like, what I’m trying to accomplish with this exercise before Wednesday, and then I’ll hand it off to B, and he can break it out into, kind of, like, projects in Ganton or whatever. But let’s just kind of focus on just kind of getting this
303 00:55:12.060 ⇒ 00:55:20.720 Robert Tseng: step, finalized by ideally end of week, so that, like, Monday I can start building out the slides, but if we need a little bit more time, that’s… that’s fine.
304 00:55:21.440 ⇒ 00:55:23.630 Robert Tseng: Any other questions on this?
305 00:55:27.220 ⇒ 00:55:32.599 Greg Stoutenburg: I think the only comment I would make is just for things that are priorities here, you know.
306 00:55:32.600 ⇒ 00:55:50.780 Greg Stoutenburg: Mixed panel, just being in good shape and being really trusted by everyone is something that they really care about. On the other hand, it is one of these things I was trying to talk about before, where it’s like, well, it’s a lot of work, and it’s, like, enablement kind of work. So, I know that they care about it, I know that we exchanged a message briefly about it, like, a week ago, Robert, so I think…
307 00:55:50.780 ⇒ 00:55:51.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
308 00:55:51.460 ⇒ 00:56:02.170 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s something just to… something for us to keep in mind. Hard to take credit for a win there, except to say now you have Mixpanel working better, but I do know that it’s something they care about, and I’ve heard it from multiple stakeholders.
309 00:56:02.800 ⇒ 00:56:16.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no, I… that definitely is something… I might break this up into two pieces. Like, I know mixed panel is something they want to activate this quarter, so… But it kind of feels like they already moved on from us and want to move forward with Josh, so my strategy instead was just…
310 00:56:16.490 ⇒ 00:56:29.620 Robert Tseng: I’m actually trying to… I’m meeting with Josh next… I already called him this week. I’m meeting with him next week. I’m trying to basically kind of bring him under Brainforge, and, like, continue to keep that revenue coming… coming here. So, I mean, I’m…
311 00:56:29.620 ⇒ 00:56:48.759 Robert Tseng: I’m, like, I don’t really have loyalty to who takes… who takes on the work, to be honest. Like, as long as, like, the work doesn’t leave us. So I… I’m gonna… if I have to go and get that guy to work for Brainforge, I will. Like, I just… I don’t want to… I don’t want to shrink the… the contract here. So, I mean, I’m sorry if there’s… I mean, I’m… I’m just… I’m just…
312 00:56:48.780 ⇒ 00:56:53.420 Robert Tseng: from an account management perspective, like, that’s kind of how I think about it.
313 00:56:54.490 ⇒ 00:57:04.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if we’re gonna lose a work stream, I’m gonna go and try to keep it in here, no matter what, even though I have to go and get that same guy that they’re trying to give the work away to, and just bring him under our team. So…
314 00:57:04.220 ⇒ 00:57:06.130 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Well, go get Propel next.
315 00:57:06.790 ⇒ 00:57:13.389 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, dude, for Palace, like, I… please, I… okay, whatever, we can talk about that some other time.
316 00:57:15.470 ⇒ 00:57:16.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
317 00:57:17.330 ⇒ 00:57:20.280 Robert Tseng: Okay, and…
318 00:57:20.400 ⇒ 00:57:33.089 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I just kind of go in, it’s basically like, if you want to stay on the client, like, please, like, the stuff that you’re working on, even if it’s a carryover from Q1, like, throw it in here. I’m gonna be able to keep working at this here and there.
319 00:57:33.090 ⇒ 00:57:56.580 Robert Tseng: I’m gonna hopefully try to finalize the list by end of the week, I’ll send it out to you guys, and then I’m basically gonna turn it into slides on Monday. So, I think that’s… that’s what my goal is. Anything that’s aspirational, like, this is really just… I kind of pulled in all the old stuff, and also anything that, like, has been talked about, but it’s not really, like, key. I’m just, like, using it as, like, a… as a staging section, if you will.
320 00:57:56.580 ⇒ 00:57:57.880 Robert Tseng: You can think about it that way.
321 00:58:01.650 ⇒ 00:58:04.160 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool.
322 00:58:04.430 ⇒ 00:58:16.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s pretty much all I got. I know, B, that’s probably not what you had in mind for the call, but is there anything that you want to take a few minutes with the team for, or is that… is this a good stopping point for everyone?
323 00:58:16.290 ⇒ 00:58:22.490 Brylle Girang: Nope, that’s okay. I think we have the tendency to just build timelines and then not focus on the goals first, so this is good.
324 00:58:22.750 ⇒ 00:58:36.620 Brylle Girang: My… I think my only requirement right now is just a concrete answer on who’s going to be, like, the main primary and the main CSO for Eden overall, and from the looks of it, it’s going to be you, Robert, and not Greg.
325 00:58:38.170 ⇒ 00:58:41.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I would say for now, just keep me on there, yeah.
326 00:58:41.910 ⇒ 00:58:42.510 Brylle Girang: Okay.
327 00:58:42.880 ⇒ 00:58:56.100 Brylle Girang: Alright, yeah, and once this is done, once we’re good with the goals, then we just need to prepare, like, the 3-month roadmap going into Q2, and that’s what OTEM really wants to see by next week.
328 00:58:56.950 ⇒ 00:58:57.550 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
329 00:58:59.290 ⇒ 00:59:00.370 Brylle Girang: Okay, I’m good.
330 00:59:01.790 ⇒ 00:59:08.480 Robert Tseng: Cool. Okay, well, yeah, thanks everyone. I mean, I wanted to say, I mean, you know, the quarter’s wrapping up, like…
331 00:59:08.560 ⇒ 00:59:21.870 Robert Tseng: You know, I know a bunch of you took on new roles, like, kind of the CSO EP experiment that we ran, so, I think, you know, from a delivery perspective, like, we did well on this client, particularly, like, we kept…
332 00:59:22.220 ⇒ 00:59:42.210 Robert Tseng: even still a client, so the bonuses that we agreed to will be paid out in… on this… for this quarter for this client. Yeah, so I don’t… I don’t want people to come away from this feeling like this is, like, a very critical… like, I’m glad we have this. This has been an anchor client for us, like, I think we’ve done… we’ve done a relatively good job, like, in terms of
333 00:59:42.210 ⇒ 00:59:44.739 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I think we, you know, we…
334 00:59:44.740 ⇒ 01:00:01.019 Robert Tseng: we want more, we want to change the narrative. I still think there’s more upside here, like, as you guys have seen, like, it’s not about how big the client is, like, there’s all this stuff that, like, noise that you may get from sales, and, like, Utam and I maybe will kind of hype up certain clients because of how big they are.
335 01:00:01.020 ⇒ 01:00:18.849 Robert Tseng: But it’s not really about how big they are. Like, I mean, at a certain point, like, it’s about the value that we’re delivering to them. And, you know, whether they’re making 10 million, 100 million, like, 500 million a year, well, you know, what we’re asking them is not that much money at the end of the day. Like, it’s still gonna be, like, you know, a reasonable amount, and
336 01:00:18.850 ⇒ 01:00:42.259 Robert Tseng: Yeah, the more value we deliver for them, like, that’s how we’re gonna grow these accounts. So, yeah, I think that’s, you know, on the delivery side, that’s how you guys impact the business, obviously by doing great work so that we deliver on the things that we… that we say we’re gonna do, but also, you know, since you’re in the… you have the privilege of, kind of, being in strategy, as well, like, to… to be a part of growing the account, so…
337 01:00:42.260 ⇒ 01:00:43.909 Robert Tseng: I definitely…
338 01:00:43.910 ⇒ 01:00:54.440 Robert Tseng: could not have grown this account without you guys this quarter, like, I wouldn’t have had time to think about AI, to go look for the right opportunity, to, like, talk it up enough to find, like.
339 01:00:54.460 ⇒ 01:01:12.660 Robert Tseng: Danny to, like, really pitch in part on this, so you guys help me get this over the line. But, hopefully you can kind of see, like, how, you know, as we’re operating at different levels on the engagement, like, this is kind of how, you know, I… I view, like, you know, we all kind of work together, so…
340 01:01:16.350 ⇒ 01:01:18.380 Robert Tseng: Cool. Alright,
341 01:01:18.490 ⇒ 01:01:30.989 Robert Tseng: with that, I think that’s… that’s all I got to say. I usually don’t run one-hour meetings, although we know that. I usually end my meetings short, but I felt like this was a good learning moment for… for all of us, and yeah, I’m excited for the next quarter.
342 01:01:31.120 ⇒ 01:01:32.440 Robert Tseng: Alright, thanks everyone.
343 01:01:32.590 ⇒ 01:01:33.170 Robert Tseng: Yep.
344 01:01:33.170 ⇒ 01:01:33.610 Greg Stoutenburg: Tipped.