Meeting Title: Brainforge HR and Forecast Planning Sync Date: 2026-03-18 Meeting participants: Kaela Gallagher, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:12:12.120 ⇒ 00:12:13.450 Robert Tseng: Hey, Kayla!
2 00:12:13.670 ⇒ 00:12:15.000 Robert Tseng: I’m so sorry.
3 00:12:15.620 ⇒ 00:12:17.220 Kaela Gallagher: All good, how’s it going?
4 00:12:18.140 ⇒ 00:12:22.859 Robert Tseng: Good! I’m just checking your calendar. Okay, so you have a hard stop in, like…
5 00:12:22.990 ⇒ 00:12:26.979 Robert Tseng: 15 minutes. Yeah, I know you’re… you’re…
6 00:12:27.180 ⇒ 00:12:31.279 Kaela Gallagher: Oh, no, actually, I don’t. That’s… I… I’m not part of that. I just put that on the.
7 00:12:31.280 ⇒ 00:12:32.260 Robert Tseng: Okay.
8 00:12:32.260 ⇒ 00:12:32.730 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, we’re.
9 00:12:32.730 ⇒ 00:12:33.100 Robert Tseng: Great.
10 00:12:34.140 ⇒ 00:12:43.039 Robert Tseng: Alright, well, I will run… I can run a little over for our next call. I… on Wednesdays, around this time, I usually meet up with, like, a mentor of mine, and
11 00:12:43.590 ⇒ 00:12:49.959 Robert Tseng: he showed up late, and… I mean, we do an in-person, like, kind of walk into New York, so he showed up late, and then he ended up…
12 00:12:50.100 ⇒ 00:12:59.710 Robert Tseng: talking a lot more than I thought he would. He has a… he has a… he has a kid on the way. It’s like, they’re… they’re due anytime soon, so I kind of feel like he was, like.
13 00:12:59.870 ⇒ 00:13:07.879 Robert Tseng: well, this is the last time I’m gonna talk to you until the baby comes, so I’m just gonna say everything I want to say. So, I was like, and then…
14 00:13:07.880 ⇒ 00:13:08.410 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
15 00:13:08.410 ⇒ 00:13:13.780 Robert Tseng: time just kind of went by, and I felt like I couldn’t cut them off, so… Yeah.
16 00:13:13.780 ⇒ 00:13:14.830 Kaela Gallagher: No worries. Yeah.
17 00:13:15.760 ⇒ 00:13:23.910 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah, excited to connect. I feel like we haven’t, like, one-on-one chatted since maybe, like, my first week, so…
18 00:13:23.910 ⇒ 00:13:30.529 Robert Tseng: I know, yeah. Yeah, you had your little trip, and then I had my trip, and…
19 00:13:30.760 ⇒ 00:13:38.189 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know, it’s… I see you on some calls here and there, but we haven’t gotten a chance to do too many one-on-ones.
20 00:13:38.360 ⇒ 00:13:45.640 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, yeah, excited. Yeah, so much going on right now, like, it’s been crazy.
21 00:13:45.640 ⇒ 00:13:48.859 Robert Tseng: I know, how do you… how do you feel? Is it… is it too crazy?
22 00:13:48.860 ⇒ 00:13:53.270 Kaela Gallagher: No, I don’t, like, I don’t think so, okay.
23 00:13:53.500 ⇒ 00:13:55.010 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, I mean, I’m like…
24 00:13:55.300 ⇒ 00:14:09.439 Kaela Gallagher: you know, working longer days to make sure that everything is getting done, I think that’s, like, an adjustment period for me, like, building systems and, like, just getting everything kind of running.
25 00:14:09.440 ⇒ 00:14:09.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
26 00:14:10.050 ⇒ 00:14:26.060 Kaela Gallagher: And… yeah, like, everything I’m doing right now, I’m doing for the first time. So it’s, like, just a little bit of a learning, and figuring out, like, oh, can I do this quicker, easier, or automated in the future? Like today, onboarding Advait, like, just…
27 00:14:26.060 ⇒ 00:14:26.560 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
28 00:14:26.560 ⇒ 00:14:30.380 Kaela Gallagher: Learning a lot through all of this, so it’s been great.
29 00:14:30.380 ⇒ 00:14:31.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
30 00:14:31.140 ⇒ 00:14:44.220 Robert Tseng: Well, I think you’re doing a great job. You’re kind of just taking on, like, I’m sure, new things you’ve never done before, but, yeah, I mean, I think you’re… Yeah, I think Mutom has… is… loves… loves working with you. You’ve definitely kind of…
31 00:14:44.250 ⇒ 00:14:55.970 Robert Tseng: brought much-needed, like, kind of structure and, yeah, just clarity to, like, our processes. I think, I think the way that you handle yourself is very effective within our team.
32 00:14:56.040 ⇒ 00:14:57.600 Robert Tseng: We have a lot of, like, kind of…
33 00:14:58.030 ⇒ 00:15:15.300 Robert Tseng: quieter personalities, but, like, yeah, you’re not afraid to ask the question, to get people kind of talking, and, yeah, I mean, really, your job, you know, requires, the ability to communicate with people, so I’m sure, like, yeah, I mean, like, if…
34 00:15:15.420 ⇒ 00:15:21.669 Robert Tseng: I think you’re bringing something out from everyone on the team, that, like.
35 00:15:22.050 ⇒ 00:15:24.080 Robert Tseng: We weren’t able to do before.
36 00:15:24.080 ⇒ 00:15:24.830 Kaela Gallagher: So…
37 00:15:24.830 ⇒ 00:15:26.360 Robert Tseng: It’s generally valuable.
38 00:15:26.640 ⇒ 00:15:32.509 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Awesome! Glad to hear that. Yeah, if you ever have any, like, feedback for me moving forward, let me know, but.
39 00:15:32.510 ⇒ 00:15:43.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we’ll do… we’ll do a more formal, kind of, like, one-month check-in. Actually, I don’t even know how many weeks you’re in, feels like you’ve been here for a while, so… But, yeah, I think just overall, it’s just been… it’s been good.
40 00:15:43.360 ⇒ 00:15:49.040 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Awesome. Yeah, I know you had a few things on the agenda for today, so we can hop in.
41 00:15:49.960 ⇒ 00:15:58.869 Robert Tseng: We don’t have to go through all of that, I know it’s a lot. So, if anything, the more important things are the HR demand forecast planning, because Utam said that that’s a project that you’re working on.
42 00:15:59.000 ⇒ 00:16:16.760 Robert Tseng: And then I also wanted to kind of give you a heads up on, like, some of the rules that, like, I’m talking to people already about, slash, like, I may kind of start sending your way soon. So, I think I can… I don’t… I don’t mind kind of opening the doc, and we can kind of start there.
43 00:16:16.900 ⇒ 00:16:20.830 Robert Tseng: So I’m gonna open the P&L doc,
44 00:16:20.830 ⇒ 00:16:23.360 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, cool, I have that in front of me as well.
45 00:16:23.490 ⇒ 00:16:24.220 Robert Tseng: Okay.
46 00:16:25.470 ⇒ 00:16:34.170 Robert Tseng: did you have any questions about it that, like, I can answer, kind of, before I jump to the section that I kind of made specifically for you?
47 00:16:34.740 ⇒ 00:16:36.740 Kaela Gallagher: Nothing?
48 00:16:36.910 ⇒ 00:16:42.690 Kaela Gallagher: So far, this is, like, my first time, kind of,
49 00:16:42.900 ⇒ 00:16:50.709 Kaela Gallagher: like, seeing a document like this, so I know I had some questions about, like, what categories things are falling under yesterday. Yeah.
50 00:16:50.930 ⇒ 00:16:59.730 Kaela Gallagher: And in terms of, like, demand forecast planning, that isn’t something that I have, like, started yet. I think.
51 00:16:59.730 ⇒ 00:17:00.050 Robert Tseng: Okay.
52 00:17:00.050 ⇒ 00:17:06.620 Kaela Gallagher: Like, put on my radar with this document, but, haven’t, like, Dive deep into it yet.
53 00:17:07.000 ⇒ 00:17:17.690 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. I mean, yeah, this is not, like, I’ll just kind of tee it up, and kind of… why we’re even thinking about it. I think we were talking… he said last week he walked you through, like.
54 00:17:18.420 ⇒ 00:17:25.739 Robert Tseng: our forecast versus actuals, like, I guess you kind of saw, like, the giant, like, weekly business review doc,
55 00:17:25.920 ⇒ 00:17:32.020 Robert Tseng: So he… I’m not… he walked you through, like, our forecasts? Question mark? I’m not really sure what…
56 00:17:32.320 ⇒ 00:17:35.729 Robert Tseng: What, operating budgets? Or, like, what kind of what… do you remember what he showed you?
57 00:17:35.730 ⇒ 00:17:42.550 Kaela Gallagher: He showed me one of the tabs in this sheet. I want to say it was Forecast…
58 00:17:42.800 ⇒ 00:17:45.710 Kaela Gallagher: WBR, MBR, QBR?
59 00:17:45.710 ⇒ 00:17:46.450 Robert Tseng: Okay.
60 00:17:47.640 ⇒ 00:18:00.589 Kaela Gallagher: But we didn’t dive super deep into it. I think I had some, like, questions on how things were categorized, and he was like, oh, that might be better for Robert.
61 00:18:00.590 ⇒ 00:18:01.120 Robert Tseng: Sure.
62 00:18:01.380 ⇒ 00:18:04.649 Kaela Gallagher: But yeah, we, like, we didn’t go super deep into it.
63 00:18:05.110 ⇒ 00:18:20.880 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, well, I mean, I made this forecast at the start of Q1, I’m gonna readjust it, kind of, for Q2. I don’t touch the forecast often, I only really touch it once a month, or kind of like… yeah, that’s not really supposed to change. I run, like, the sales team off of the
64 00:18:20.890 ⇒ 00:18:31.029 Robert Tseng: actual WVR, the monthly business review, and then there’s a quarterly view that, you know, I’m gonna basically fill out in the next couple weeks, now that Q1’s wrapping up.
65 00:18:31.330 ⇒ 00:18:41.069 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I think this gives you a good sense, like, I think this… the actual MBR is probably the best sense to, like, get us, for, like, where our business is at, you can see.
66 00:18:41.070 ⇒ 00:18:45.269 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, this is kind of what was brought into that P&L doc, too, right?
67 00:18:45.420 ⇒ 00:18:57.110 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think the P&L tells a slightly different story, because it’s just January, February, or I guess this is just January, February, too. But yeah, sure, I guess it’s… it’s comparable, in terms of
68 00:18:57.550 ⇒ 00:19:10.850 Robert Tseng: the P&L goes into a lot more detail. This is more, like, kind of rolled up into metrics that I care about for the sales team, so, like, average total contract value, like, making sure that that’s, like, kind of consistent, and we’re… you know, before.
69 00:19:11.140 ⇒ 00:19:15.859 Robert Tseng: What was this going to say? Yeah.
70 00:19:15.970 ⇒ 00:19:23.509 Robert Tseng: So… Oh yeah, anyway, like, so our average total contract value is around $30K, and then our…
71 00:19:23.640 ⇒ 00:19:27.780 Robert Tseng: Monthly contract values around 2025.
72 00:19:27.960 ⇒ 00:19:39.419 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, I mean, this was, like, a big change. Like, if I… if I had built this a while ago, this, you know, you would have seen something closer to, like, 15,000 or whatever. So, yeah, I guess the takeaway here is really just that
73 00:19:39.420 ⇒ 00:19:49.189 Robert Tseng: we’re selling bigger contracts, but I feel like we’ve hit a ceiling. Like, from a sales perspective, I don’t think our contract value’s gonna go much higher. Like, we’re having a really hard time closing
74 00:19:49.190 ⇒ 00:19:53.039 Robert Tseng: Bigger deals, at least in the current state, unless we kind of…
75 00:19:53.130 ⇒ 00:20:17.829 Robert Tseng: you know, I think there are certain levers that you can impact that would… that would impact this. If we hire more senior people that can kind of help us, like, do better service lines, or if I have, like, another go-to-market counterpart that can actually kind of break into enterprise more. So, like, there’s a couple ways from the recruiting perspective that I’m thinking could actually impact these numbers, so that’s, like, one input to this model.
76 00:20:17.830 ⇒ 00:20:22.450 Robert Tseng: which, I’m not expecting you to build it from scratch, like, I’ll definitely kind of help outline it,
77 00:20:22.450 ⇒ 00:20:26.010 Robert Tseng: But, like, I’ll probably assign you,
78 00:20:26.160 ⇒ 00:20:33.710 Robert Tseng: just, like, metrics to kind of think about. But yeah, I want to be able to look at, like, from the demand side, thinking about
79 00:20:34.830 ⇒ 00:20:54.629 Robert Tseng: like, ways that I can increase contract value right now, just like if we just picked this one metric, for example. It’s like, I can raise prices, I can do longer contracts, we can stack service offerings. These are all, like, delivery and sales levers that we can use to try to impact contract value, or, like, what I described, which is, like.
80 00:20:55.000 ⇒ 00:21:09.999 Robert Tseng: maybe I just need to bring in somebody else externally to go in and do it. And so, there’s another kind of lever that I… we haven’t really spent any time talking about, but would be interesting to put on your radar. There is a, so buying, like.
81 00:21:10.230 ⇒ 00:21:17.259 Robert Tseng: there’s, like, a consult… there’s other smaller consultancies. We’re talking to one right now in New York. I’m gonna meet with him next week.
82 00:21:17.280 ⇒ 00:21:36.580 Robert Tseng: he’s, like, been in the game for, like, 4 years now, and he wants to get out of… he wants to get out of the game. I’m exploring how do we buy him out, because I want his book of business. He has, like, some… so he has some clients that I would like to take on, like, we could easily absorb his work, and so that’s, like, another way to expand as well, so…
83 00:21:36.580 ⇒ 00:21:48.679 Robert Tseng: And, you know, that’s more like M&A and not exactly HR, but, you know, if you’re interested in kind of being involved with something like that, I mean, here’s him and his subcontractors, like, so there’s, like, some impact to our headcount.
84 00:21:48.680 ⇒ 00:21:57.699 Robert Tseng: So I feel like that kind of comes into your world a little bit, a little bit. So that’s, like, something else I want to start kind of preparing for. And, you know…
85 00:21:58.320 ⇒ 00:22:03.000 Kaela Gallagher: I was gonna say, I’d definitely be interested in, like, staying close to that, that’s super interesting to me.
86 00:22:03.390 ⇒ 00:22:04.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
87 00:22:04.370 ⇒ 00:22:17.010 Robert Tseng: And so, like, the big kind of kickoff point that I see coming, I know I’m kind of straying away from the doc now, this doesn’t show it, but, you know, we have VixelCon in April, you know, ideally, hopefully we all get together in person.
88 00:22:17.200 ⇒ 00:22:27.349 Robert Tseng: Vixel, as you may have seen in the channel, is lighting up some investor, meetings for us, and we want to basically do, like, a big, kind of.
89 00:22:28.140 ⇒ 00:22:47.180 Robert Tseng: I don’t know if we’re gonna necessarily raise around, but, like, a big roadshow kind of thing, where we just go and meet with a bunch of people, who Tom’s gonna come to New York right afterwards, and then I might even circle back around to LA, so, like, we’ll see. Like, it might be Austin, New York, LA. We’re gonna go talk to everybody that’s on the buyer side that we know.
90 00:22:47.340 ⇒ 00:22:58.830 Robert Tseng: And we’re just gonna see if it makes sense to, to, like, bring in some growth capital. And so, yeah, I think, like, none of this is urgent yet, like, I think this is kind of, like.
91 00:22:59.080 ⇒ 00:23:18.629 Robert Tseng: But I think this is, like, really what I want to put on, like, into the Q2 OKRs. Like, I… I expect us to, like, start to have some of these conversations in Q2, and it’s possible, like, by Q3, we may… we may… we may raise… we may raise money, and I want to be able to deploy it, and the… what they’re… what they’re going to want to see is, like.
92 00:23:18.630 ⇒ 00:23:32.420 Robert Tseng: who are you going to hire? What businesses would you want to, like, what businesses would you want to acquire, possibly? Like, what does, you know, like, how… how are you going to, like, you know, deploy this capital? So, I think that’s kind of why this…
93 00:23:33.030 ⇒ 00:23:45.479 Robert Tseng: model is gonna become important, because it’s not… like, the view from the sales side currently, all these inputs and outputs are really just, like, marketing and sales activities, so…
94 00:23:45.480 ⇒ 00:23:45.870 Kaela Gallagher: Hmm.
95 00:23:45.870 ⇒ 00:23:48.530 Robert Tseng: I could… I could show investors, like, we’re going to…
96 00:23:48.820 ⇒ 00:24:07.780 Robert Tseng: you know, if you give me… if we take more money, I can actually spend on, like, a marketing… like, a paid ads budget, and it may impact some of our marketing, like, metrics here, or whatever. But, like, that’s all… that’s, like, it’s not the complete story. I think it doesn’t… I need to be able to… I want to be able to show them that we can…
97 00:24:08.060 ⇒ 00:24:11.809 Robert Tseng: We can get other… we can buy out other consultancies.
98 00:24:12.150 ⇒ 00:24:13.180 Robert Tseng: And…
99 00:24:13.200 ⇒ 00:24:30.850 Robert Tseng: like, we can hire, like, great people who are going to be, you know, more productive in some way that we can tell that story with the data. So, yeah, I think that’s probably a project that I’ll be able to partner more closely with you on, since I do all the modeling for Brainforge.
100 00:24:30.850 ⇒ 00:24:35.590 Robert Tseng: At least on the financial and forecasting side. So…
101 00:24:35.590 ⇒ 00:24:36.190 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
102 00:24:36.820 ⇒ 00:24:51.729 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t… I mean, this probably just gives you a sense of, like, what the inputs are. Like, I’m not expecting you to read this and be like, okay, you know exactly what to do. I guess, if anything, on this call, I just wanted to intro… intro you to how I’m thinking about it.
103 00:24:51.980 ⇒ 00:24:56.319 Robert Tseng: Yeah, does that kind of give a… at least, like, a…
104 00:24:56.660 ⇒ 00:25:03.110 Robert Tseng: an idea of, like, where, like, what I’m thinking, with, with this, model.
105 00:25:03.460 ⇒ 00:25:10.920 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we would build this out kind of within our existing, like, weekly, monthly, quarterly review doc.
106 00:25:11.560 ⇒ 00:25:12.429 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I probably would.
107 00:25:12.810 ⇒ 00:25:13.839 Robert Tseng: it on, yeah, probably.
108 00:25:13.840 ⇒ 00:25:14.220 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
109 00:25:14.220 ⇒ 00:25:21.570 Robert Tseng: on as a section down here. Yeah, so right now we have sales, marketing, delivery. I’m gonna probably… I’ll probably add another… a couple other sections down there.
110 00:25:21.910 ⇒ 00:25:22.820 Robert Tseng: Okay.
111 00:25:23.380 ⇒ 00:25:24.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
112 00:25:24.520 ⇒ 00:25:39.910 Robert Tseng: So, like, immediately what you would be able to impact is, like, yeah, personnel cost structure. I think, like, you’ve maybe seen in this doc, or if you haven’t, kind of, like, how I thought about fringe benefits, and kind of how that impacts, like, our margins specifically.
113 00:25:39.910 ⇒ 00:25:49.960 Robert Tseng: I mean, there’s, like, an estimated number. This is off of the doc that we probably sent you a while ago, like, the total compensation notion, including, like, all these things. We had, like, a scenario here.
114 00:25:49.960 ⇒ 00:26:03.010 Robert Tseng: I was, like, going back and forth with you on, like, okay, I think if we just do healthcare, would that be enough to kind of be enough for Q2? Like, I want to phase it out and not, like, just double our personnel costs immediately.
115 00:26:03.010 ⇒ 00:26:18.369 Robert Tseng: So that, you know, that’s something. And then, as we’re converting to… which we already converted to C-Corp, and we’re moving people into W-2, we have to pay more taxes. And so, I know you’re not, like, the accounting person, but, you know, that’s probably… that to me is, like, part of, like, the…
116 00:26:18.570 ⇒ 00:26:22.429 Robert Tseng: Like, the cost per person that, like, we need to…
117 00:26:22.800 ⇒ 00:26:23.250 Kaela Gallagher: the deck, back.
118 00:26:23.250 ⇒ 00:26:28.649 Robert Tseng: cost structure that, like, you know, I think you will be the one who owns that input in the model.
119 00:26:28.650 ⇒ 00:26:29.480 Kaela Gallagher: Boom.
120 00:26:29.480 ⇒ 00:26:30.170 Robert Tseng: So…
121 00:26:30.170 ⇒ 00:26:39.619 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, to add to this, so I’ve started working on, kind of, W-2 and benefits, and, like, really thinking about all that with UTOM the past week.
122 00:26:39.620 ⇒ 00:26:53.499 Kaela Gallagher: We met with Megan today in regard to, like, what does it look like to do that, and, like, what does the cost look like? So she’s actually going to reach out and get us quotes for, like, a couple different options on benefits.
123 00:26:53.500 ⇒ 00:27:13.090 Kaela Gallagher: Great. So I should have that soon, and that should give us some more, like, accurate numbers here. She also brought up an interesting point, that as soon as you have 5 employees at the company, so 5 people on W-2, if even one of those people is in California.
124 00:27:13.090 ⇒ 00:27:24.050 Kaela Gallagher: They require that you provide a 401K for them. So you don’t have to match, but the option has to be there. So,
125 00:27:24.340 ⇒ 00:27:31.029 Kaela Gallagher: I think that would be, like, less than $200 a month if we don’t match, but just something to keep in mind is, like.
126 00:27:31.660 ⇒ 00:27:37.219 Kaela Gallagher: Once we do this conversion with the first batch of people, that is something we’re gonna have to offer right away.
127 00:27:37.970 ⇒ 00:27:38.630 Robert Tseng: Okay.
128 00:27:38.890 ⇒ 00:27:39.720 Robert Tseng: Okay.
129 00:27:40.460 ⇒ 00:27:58.089 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, right now, we are kind of loose. I know we, like, even with you, we had, like, some healthcare stipend that we agreed to. It’s, like, inconsistent, it’s not the same thing we offered to somebody else, like, I mean, we definitely need to standardize it. Megan’s concern is, like, you guys are just offering whatever you want to different people, so… and that’s gonna look weird, so…
130 00:27:58.160 ⇒ 00:27:59.030 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
131 00:27:59.030 ⇒ 00:28:09.009 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I know we have to standardize it. I didn’t really know exactly what it was. We kind of just tailored it to whoever, like, yeah, I understand we need to do that.
132 00:28:09.290 ⇒ 00:28:27.799 Kaela Gallagher: So right now, I think it’s just Luke and I that are on the stipend, and then we are negotiating one with Jasmine as well, so that would make three of us, but I think us three would be some of the first people to convert to W-2, in which case, like, our stipends obviously aren’t being paid out anymore, because we’re being offered benefits in a different way.
133 00:28:28.030 ⇒ 00:28:28.900 Robert Tseng: Right, right.
134 00:28:28.900 ⇒ 00:28:29.360 Kaela Gallagher: So…
135 00:28:29.360 ⇒ 00:28:29.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
136 00:28:30.610 ⇒ 00:28:31.260 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
137 00:28:31.660 ⇒ 00:28:51.639 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Yeah, so we should have some more, like, information on all this stuff soon, and then, yeah, if you want me to build out anything in the spreadsheet, like, let me know. Happy to, like, dive deeper into, like, each of these inputs, and I’m also doing, like, some research right now on office space, too, so I’ll have that for you soon.
138 00:28:52.010 ⇒ 00:29:01.930 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool, yeah, that would be super helpful. So, yeah, I mean, this is the… if we’re gonna segue into the office conversation a little bit.
139 00:29:02.040 ⇒ 00:29:04.449 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess, like.
140 00:29:04.560 ⇒ 00:29:23.800 Robert Tseng: I was talking about this with my advisor I was talking to. He was, like, trying to really interrogate me on, like, is it really valuable to bring people back in office? Like, can you prove their productivity or whatever? And I don’t… I don’t really know. I… you know, I can see from the cost perspective and just terms of meeting time, but he had a good point. It was, like.
141 00:29:24.000 ⇒ 00:29:43.559 Robert Tseng: even if you eliminate meeting time, you may just be, like, deleting it from your balance sheet, but it’s still actually happening. You’re just not logging it as clearly as it is, like, in Zoom. So, that’s a totally fair point, and I think, like, I don’t think meeting time is the only metric that I can use to justify it. I think it needs to also be…
142 00:29:43.610 ⇒ 00:29:49.869 Robert Tseng: you know, I mean, is there something about culture, and we don’t have to be so mathematic about it, but I think I would
143 00:29:50.210 ⇒ 00:29:52.530 Robert Tseng: To discuss that with you in terms of, like.
144 00:29:53.020 ⇒ 00:30:03.129 Robert Tseng: Well, yeah, I guess when you offer… when you’ve, like, kind of put in-office, hybrid, remote on the table, and offers you’ve put out in the past, like, what are the considerations that
145 00:30:03.170 ⇒ 00:30:13.089 Robert Tseng: that people are making, like, it’s really hard to assign a dollar value to every, like, benefit. Like, I feel like there are just intangibles, but I think,
146 00:30:13.370 ⇒ 00:30:17.430 Robert Tseng: It would be nice if we can at least, like, have some…
147 00:30:18.730 ⇒ 00:30:23.410 Robert Tseng: like, some way to, like, weigh the different scenarios that we’re considering.
148 00:30:23.830 ⇒ 00:30:27.019 Robert Tseng: just staying fully remote. The other one, which is, like.
149 00:30:27.270 ⇒ 00:30:31.440 Robert Tseng: just all US-based people, only push them into Austin and LA.
150 00:30:32.110 ⇒ 00:30:41.149 Robert Tseng: and have them do a hybrid situation. I think those are the only really two situations. I don’t think we would ever do an all… like, an everyday in-office kind.
151 00:30:41.150 ⇒ 00:30:42.210 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
152 00:30:42.210 ⇒ 00:30:47.919 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I heard you on the W-2 considerations. I think there are ways, kind of.
153 00:30:48.040 ⇒ 00:30:50.319 Robert Tseng: Around that, it’s kind of…
154 00:30:50.320 ⇒ 00:30:50.690 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
155 00:30:50.690 ⇒ 00:30:57.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, like, well, if you want to work here, and this is, like, what we’re offering, then you just gotta… just gotta go with it, so…
156 00:30:57.690 ⇒ 00:30:58.130 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
157 00:30:58.130 ⇒ 00:31:01.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’m not too… I’m not too worried about, like, the…
158 00:31:01.720 ⇒ 00:31:08.910 Robert Tseng: Oh, well, maybe I should be, but I personally am not that too worried about the legal implications of it. I’m more interested in, like.
159 00:31:09.110 ⇒ 00:31:16.669 Robert Tseng: can we… Yeah, Yeah, can we model out, like, the benefit that it would have?
160 00:31:18.080 ⇒ 00:31:22.949 Kaela Gallagher: My job is to be worried about the legal side, so I have you on that. Yeah.
161 00:31:22.950 ⇒ 00:31:23.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
162 00:31:23.710 ⇒ 00:31:36.079 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, I can definitely, like… I know you sent me the Notion page, so I can definitely put some different options in there. Of course, none of these places, like, advertise it. They love to make you have a sales call with them, but…
163 00:31:36.080 ⇒ 00:31:36.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
164 00:31:36.530 ⇒ 00:31:44.440 Kaela Gallagher: I did get some information from one called Blank Spaces. I think it would be about $4,000 a month. Okay.
165 00:31:44.980 ⇒ 00:31:46.609 Kaela Gallagher: So that’s, like… That’s my guess.
166 00:31:46.610 ⇒ 00:31:51.159 Robert Tseng: I feel like 4 to 5K a month is what I would expect for an office that size.
167 00:31:51.880 ⇒ 00:32:03.119 Kaela Gallagher: It’s also in real estate, and, like, has connections that can look into different, like, office spaces for us, so there’s different things we could do. That would be a more, like, permanent situation, rather.
168 00:32:03.120 ⇒ 00:32:03.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
169 00:32:03.620 ⇒ 00:32:07.789 Kaela Gallagher: work, but I, like, the LA team right now, like.
170 00:32:08.160 ⇒ 00:32:15.380 Kaela Gallagher: we’re, like, really excited to, like, meet each other in person. Like, we’re doing it, like, every week just on our own, and we’re, like.
171 00:32:15.380 ⇒ 00:32:15.730 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
172 00:32:15.730 ⇒ 00:32:28.410 Kaela Gallagher: loving it, and all it’s costing us is, like, maybe lunch or coffee, and we’re going to this, like, communal space in Culver, and just working together for, like, half a day.
173 00:32:28.630 ⇒ 00:32:28.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
174 00:32:28.950 ⇒ 00:32:34.669 Kaela Gallagher: I think that’s going really well right now. So I’m excited about that.
175 00:32:35.340 ⇒ 00:32:47.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I mean, I see that. The fact that you guys are self-organizing and we didn’t ask for it, that definitely got me thinking, like, well, why don’t we just, like, try to offer a space that you guys want? Obviously, I don’t want
176 00:32:48.420 ⇒ 00:32:57.180 Robert Tseng: so burdensome, and, I mean, I sent you the… my… my crazy idea, which is, like, the house. It’s like the tech… the tech house. Yeah.
177 00:32:57.830 ⇒ 00:32:58.520 Robert Tseng: You know, I…
178 00:32:59.570 ⇒ 00:33:08.699 Robert Tseng: I mean, I think it looks a little cleaner than just, like, signing a two-year office lease or whatever. It’s just, like, kind of a mixed residential kind of thing, but…
179 00:33:08.700 ⇒ 00:33:09.130 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
180 00:33:09.130 ⇒ 00:33:12.030 Robert Tseng: Obviously, I have to, like… there’s a lot of things to figure out, whether that’s possible.
181 00:33:12.030 ⇒ 00:33:12.430 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
182 00:33:12.430 ⇒ 00:33:15.979 Robert Tseng: But the point is, like, I think it cost-wise, it’s comparable. Like, it’s…
183 00:33:15.980 ⇒ 00:33:16.500 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
184 00:33:16.500 ⇒ 00:33:22.039 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, it… I don’t… yeah, I mean, so I… I… and I think it’s, like, cool to have, like.
185 00:33:22.140 ⇒ 00:33:29.690 Robert Tseng: it’s a… it’s a space, a mixed-use space that we could use to host events and, like, everything, and yeah, anyway, so I… I was like.
186 00:33:30.550 ⇒ 00:33:42.770 Robert Tseng: I thought that maybe that would be an interesting… that could be, like, a… it could be appealing to, like, LA, LA-based candidates. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, the last thing I’ll say for now is,
187 00:33:42.910 ⇒ 00:33:53.399 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so as far as, like, roles that I see coming, which maybe you’ve heard me, like, kind of slack you a couple things, I do feel like we need, like, a Jasmine counterpart still, like, another, another Jasmine.
188 00:33:54.660 ⇒ 00:33:56.470 Kaela Gallagher: What makes Jasmine different from Greg?
189 00:33:57.480 ⇒ 00:34:05.610 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… Greg is a pure CSO, so he’s, like, just…
190 00:34:06.120 ⇒ 00:34:10.579 Robert Tseng: He’s, like, account management. I feel like, I feel… I see him as, like, a head of account management.
191 00:34:10.670 ⇒ 00:34:27.000 Robert Tseng: Where, yeah, like, generalized skill set, not very technical, is not really reviewing work, but is, like, good to put in front of, like, very senior client stakeholders, and, and he can do trainings and enablements, like, he’s just very, like, very people-facing.
192 00:34:28.510 ⇒ 00:34:44.589 Robert Tseng: Which I think is totally not the role he signed up for, so I don’t even know if that’s something he wants long-term. But it is just kind of what we’ve seen from him the past couple months when we thought about CSOs. Like, I think he’s the only one where clients consistently tell us they like working with him, and I’ve been able to, like.
193 00:34:44.760 ⇒ 00:34:59.999 Robert Tseng: yeah, like, I think that that’s that. Whereas Jasmine, I think, is equally senior in terms of, like… but then she doesn’t want to be client-facing. Like, I mean, everyone has to be to some extent, but she wants to be, like, internal coach. She wants to be, like,
194 00:35:00.700 ⇒ 00:35:04.720 Robert Tseng: Raising the standard of, like, our delivery,
195 00:35:04.890 ⇒ 00:35:20.979 Robert Tseng: and basically kind of operating more like a engagement manager in a traditional consultancy, or like a, like a, like a team lead, like a, like a… sorry, not an engagement manager, but like a, like a lead, like a team lead.
196 00:35:21.120 ⇒ 00:35:31.920 Robert Tseng: Where she wants to review people’s work, she wants to build templates, improve process, like, and just, like, raise the quality of the work that we’re delivering. So, yeah.
197 00:35:32.710 ⇒ 00:35:37.099 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, and Jasmine’s not necessarily super technical, right?
198 00:35:37.430 ⇒ 00:35:43.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah, she’s not super technical either, which is why I need a counterpart from her who’s more technical than she is. Yeah.
199 00:35:44.010 ⇒ 00:35:47.270 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, so we need a Jasmine, but more technical. Okay, okay.
200 00:35:47.270 ⇒ 00:35:47.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
201 00:35:47.800 ⇒ 00:35:53.559 Kaela Gallagher: Could this potentially be a data engineer that, like, Communicates really well, because we.
202 00:35:53.560 ⇒ 00:35:54.310 Robert Tseng: Awesome. I…
203 00:35:54.310 ⇒ 00:35:54.980 Kaela Gallagher: People in the park.
204 00:35:54.980 ⇒ 00:36:08.620 Robert Tseng: That would be an UTAM. I’ve literally never met anybody else, like, yeah, I think UTAM is the only data engineer who can, like, talk to people that I’ve met. But anyway, I’m sure maybe you’ve talked to people that can. But I did find a couple people, so there are, like.
205 00:36:08.620 ⇒ 00:36:18.580 Robert Tseng: business people that become data engineers that I think they could fit, but I think data engineers that become business people, very rare. I, like, I haven’t met anybody else out of Utah.
206 00:36:18.690 ⇒ 00:36:36.590 Robert Tseng: So, there is a guy in LA who I’d like to connect you with. I know he was, like, he was at EY Parthenon for 4 years, and then he switched into data engineering. I feel like he has, like… I mean, it’d be worth a chat to see if, like, he kind of starts to kind of fit, like, kind of give you an idea of what that type of person could look like. Yeah.
207 00:36:37.240 ⇒ 00:36:50.709 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then we just need, you know, whether Advait or Amber work out, like, I… it feels a little shaky, like, Advait is kind of out on his own in Ohio, and if we do move out… move towards this, like, LA-Austin thing.
208 00:36:50.710 ⇒ 00:37:00.719 Robert Tseng: like, I think I would prefer, like, basically an Advait in LA, so I think that’s another, like, one that I’d be interested in still trying to get, so…
209 00:37:00.720 ⇒ 00:37:02.200 Kaela Gallagher: Open to relocating?
210 00:37:02.680 ⇒ 00:37:08.920 Robert Tseng: I don’t know. So yeah, I’m open to his trial, and I’m open to him being the one that just relocates as well.
211 00:37:08.920 ⇒ 00:37:11.840 Kaela Gallagher: I think he went to, UCI.
212 00:37:12.570 ⇒ 00:37:13.789 Robert Tseng: Oh, no way, okay.
213 00:37:14.610 ⇒ 00:37:16.479 Kaela Gallagher: I’ll look into that, and I’ll ask him.
214 00:37:19.070 ⇒ 00:37:19.650 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
215 00:37:21.220 ⇒ 00:37:24.729 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and…
216 00:37:25.470 ⇒ 00:37:42.040 Robert Tseng: Lastly, so I know Miranda may get over the line soon. She’s basically gonna come in as an AIPM, but then on the go-to-market side, I might have a Luke counterpart as well. And so that would be Drell. I think you may have met him before.
217 00:37:42.170 ⇒ 00:37:43.030 Robert Tseng: In LA.
218 00:37:43.030 ⇒ 00:37:45.769 Kaela Gallagher: Oh, wait! At the happy hour!
219 00:37:45.770 ⇒ 00:37:46.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
220 00:37:46.090 ⇒ 00:37:47.939 Kaela Gallagher: Talked to him the whole time, okay?
221 00:37:47.940 ⇒ 00:37:52.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’m trying to… I’m trying to, like, tell him to come back, so… Okay.
222 00:37:53.070 ⇒ 00:38:08.009 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, yeah, he is a convincing person. I see why you want him for that. Yeah. Okay, interesting. Also, for Hannah’s leave, Luke is sending me people to talk to, so I will keep you posted on that.
223 00:38:08.770 ⇒ 00:38:19.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I… M… Yeah, I mean, we definitely… I mean, I’m unsure if we will… backfill.
224 00:38:19.900 ⇒ 00:38:24.440 Robert Tseng: her while she’s out, but I’m open to talking to candidates.
225 00:38:24.440 ⇒ 00:38:24.890 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
226 00:38:26.340 ⇒ 00:38:26.819 Kaela Gallagher: I think.
227 00:38:26.820 ⇒ 00:38:27.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
228 00:38:27.200 ⇒ 00:38:34.169 Kaela Gallagher: The person he sent me is a student, so maybe they’re open to part-time. Would you consider somebody, like, 20 hours a week?
229 00:38:34.170 ⇒ 00:38:35.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, Hannah is.
230 00:38:35.240 ⇒ 00:38:35.600 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
231 00:38:35.600 ⇒ 00:38:40.709 Robert Tseng: So, like, I think that that would be fine. But yeah, I don’t think I need a full-time Hannah, pretty much. Yeah.
232 00:38:40.710 ⇒ 00:38:41.300 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.
233 00:38:41.300 ⇒ 00:38:41.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
234 00:38:42.150 ⇒ 00:38:42.490 Kaela Gallagher: Also.
235 00:38:42.490 ⇒ 00:38:48.909 Robert Tseng: And especially if we get Veranda plus Jarrell, I just don’t think that would have budget for… on the go-to-market side.
236 00:38:49.450 ⇒ 00:38:56.779 Kaela Gallagher: okay. I was gonna say one more thing. Is it okay if we pause the recording?
237 00:38:57.040 ⇒ 00:38:57.820 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah, of course.