Meeting Title: Kaela <> Uttam Weekly Sync Date: 2026-03-17 Meeting participants: Kaela Gallagher, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:09:07.720 ⇒ 00:09:08.990 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
2 00:09:09.620 ⇒ 00:09:10.400 Kaela Gallagher: Hey.
3 00:09:10.630 ⇒ 00:09:11.819 Kaela Gallagher: How’s it going?
4 00:09:12.180 ⇒ 00:09:16.070 Uttam Kumaran: Good, I was, I was gonna go…
5 00:09:16.290 ⇒ 00:09:21.570 Uttam Kumaran: eat some lunch and take this, but I feel like the last few times we talked, I was, like, walking or not…
6 00:09:21.810 ⇒ 00:09:26.159 Uttam Kumaran: on video, so I will… I will fast for another 30 minutes.
7 00:09:26.380 ⇒ 00:09:28.910 Kaela Gallagher: Oh my gosh, well, we can look at… We can make.
8 00:09:28.910 ⇒ 00:09:33.750 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No making it quick. Not on my… not on my behalf.
9 00:09:33.750 ⇒ 00:09:38.480 Kaela Gallagher: Oh my gosh, lunch at 4.30, that is… it’s been a day.
10 00:09:42.730 ⇒ 00:09:48.259 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I guess, like, I wanna know, I just, yeah, how are you, like, I’m interested in, like.
11 00:09:48.940 ⇒ 00:09:55.219 Uttam Kumaran: based on Friday, based on today, like, you’re starting to see some of the cracks, which is good.
12 00:09:55.740 ⇒ 00:10:01.000 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’re also… Taking on a lot, which is, like, amazing.
13 00:10:01.270 ⇒ 00:10:07.449 Uttam Kumaran: So, I feel like… and the third piece is, like, you’re actually seeing the first time we’ve, like, had, like, a core…
14 00:10:07.580 ⇒ 00:10:09.010 Uttam Kumaran: Like, leadership team.
15 00:10:09.130 ⇒ 00:10:10.450 Uttam Kumaran: You know, which…
16 00:10:10.810 ⇒ 00:10:30.769 Uttam Kumaran: I think is also amazing. Like, I feel like we all can help each other discuss topics, and I think one thing that’s been really great working with you is you’re very… you’re very vocal, which is perfect. Like, I think out of our group, like, we should be the people in every meeting that’s, like, saying, I don’t understand what this is, or, like.
17 00:10:30.910 ⇒ 00:10:36.410 Uttam Kumaran: like, I don’t agree with this, right? Like, I’m expecting that, and I can’t… I’m…
18 00:10:36.540 ⇒ 00:10:45.700 Uttam Kumaran: you’ll see part of the way that our delivery group is going to change is some of those types of expectations will kind of ladder down, but it’s… I feel like those meetings have been
19 00:10:45.950 ⇒ 00:10:48.020 Uttam Kumaran: Really, really productive, you know?
20 00:10:48.390 ⇒ 00:11:01.890 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, the leadership meetings have definitely been my favorite, and I think also, like, my biggest learnings. I feel like I’m always in every chat and in every meeting being like, well, from the people perspective, like.
21 00:11:01.890 ⇒ 00:11:02.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
22 00:11:02.350 ⇒ 00:11:04.150 Kaela Gallagher: We need to remember this!
23 00:11:04.150 ⇒ 00:11:04.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.
24 00:11:04.740 ⇒ 00:11:16.750 Kaela Gallagher: So, yes, and then I would say, like, yeah, a couple… the first couple weeks were just, like, a lot of learnings and, like, onboardings and getting to know the team, and now, like, last week and this week have really felt like…
25 00:11:17.060 ⇒ 00:11:23.500 Kaela Gallagher: being hit with all the things, like all the visa things, or, you know.
26 00:11:23.500 ⇒ 00:11:24.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
27 00:11:24.030 ⇒ 00:11:30.910 Kaela Gallagher: They’re starting to come to me with different concerns and people stuff, and so… Yeah, it’s… it’s been…
28 00:11:30.910 ⇒ 00:11:36.520 Uttam Kumaran: Is it… is it… is it, like, what you… like… and again, I always… I’m interested in…
29 00:11:36.730 ⇒ 00:11:39.000 Uttam Kumaran: because I never had a formal…
30 00:11:39.590 ⇒ 00:11:55.890 Uttam Kumaran: I never was super formally involved with people or recruiting. I mean, I… I was, like, a… like, I was a hiring manager, and I interviewed… I worked on, like, people analytics, but, like, I’m always curious on, like, how things compare and contrast. But also, I’m… I’m curious if, like.
31 00:11:56.150 ⇒ 00:12:00.370 Uttam Kumaran: my view on a lot of things at Brainforge is to always hold, like.
32 00:12:00.740 ⇒ 00:12:10.609 Uttam Kumaran: I could see where we’re going, because I’ve seen where we were 6 months a year ago, and to be like, we are going the right direction. I’m just curious, like, how you…
33 00:12:11.210 ⇒ 00:12:16.550 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like it’s nice to ask you, like, how you compare and contrast this from previous role, and like…
34 00:12:16.660 ⇒ 00:12:18.020 Uttam Kumaran: In what ways is it?
35 00:12:18.120 ⇒ 00:12:21.799 Uttam Kumaran: Good and bad, or in what ways is it tough and easy, you know?
36 00:12:22.000 ⇒ 00:12:26.729 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, I think my previous positions, like, I had a lot more…
37 00:12:27.220 ⇒ 00:12:33.650 Kaela Gallagher: like, structure, just, like, everything was kind of already built out for me, and I was, like, very much.
38 00:12:33.650 ⇒ 00:12:34.840 Uttam Kumaran: I wish.
39 00:12:34.840 ⇒ 00:12:36.000 Kaela Gallagher: within…
40 00:12:36.000 ⇒ 00:12:37.809 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, within the rule set, yeah.
41 00:12:37.810 ⇒ 00:12:47.499 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, within, like, this kind of framework that was already, you know, created. Now I think, like, the exciting part and also the new part for me is, like, I’m creating that myself.
42 00:12:47.500 ⇒ 00:12:48.389 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm. Yeah.
43 00:12:48.390 ⇒ 00:12:52.449 Kaela Gallagher: So, yeah, I would say, like, that’s the… that’s the biggest difference so far.
44 00:12:52.560 ⇒ 00:12:54.490 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
45 00:12:55.000 ⇒ 00:13:04.259 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, great. Yeah, I mean, I think, I hope you see it as a glass half full, versus basically it being like, you can advocate for policies that you actually believe in.
46 00:13:04.260 ⇒ 00:13:05.220 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
47 00:13:05.220 ⇒ 00:13:23.430 Uttam Kumaran: test them directly versus, like, this is just the way someone did. I also think you’re gonna get to see the other side of, like, policy formation and how that links to, like, budgeting and, like, the P&L, which is, like, I think it was… I think today we… I wish we had more time, I’ll try to, like, do that, but I actually want…
48 00:13:23.610 ⇒ 00:13:27.950 Uttam Kumaran: I’m so pumped that our crew can get a really deeper insight into that, because.
49 00:13:27.950 ⇒ 00:13:28.570 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
50 00:13:28.570 ⇒ 00:13:35.550 Uttam Kumaran: That is literally the company on a piece of paper, and it is easy, if you don’t have visibility in that, to not
51 00:13:35.670 ⇒ 00:13:42.670 Uttam Kumaran: see that, like, oh, actually, like, okay, I see how the money flows through the business, but also, you’ll see that
52 00:13:42.990 ⇒ 00:13:53.310 Uttam Kumaran: oftentimes, we’re battling, I think, between, like, defending the… like, giving as much as we can to the team, giving as much as the client, giving as much to the business.
53 00:13:53.350 ⇒ 00:14:10.440 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And those are the three stakeholders. So, I’m constantly, like, rotating between those three, because I think about the health of our business. Of course, I think about our clients, and then I think about our team, and you oftentimes, like, one…
54 00:14:10.840 ⇒ 00:14:13.130 Uttam Kumaran: Going too far down one direction.
55 00:14:13.470 ⇒ 00:14:24.710 Uttam Kumaran: affects the other two, right? And so, I think I want people to… the business oftentimes almost gets relegated to just, like, this me or Robert, so having you guys.
56 00:14:24.710 ⇒ 00:14:25.100 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
57 00:14:25.100 ⇒ 00:14:25.780 Uttam Kumaran: that.
58 00:14:25.940 ⇒ 00:14:29.710 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, see, like, a line item for people allows you to…
59 00:14:30.040 ⇒ 00:14:33.210 Uttam Kumaran: to just, like, have an understanding of that.
60 00:14:33.460 ⇒ 00:14:49.770 Uttam Kumaran: But I think we’re always… all three of us are gonna have to just think about those, but of course, we all have our SKUs. Like, I think you’ll certainly skew more on the people and, like, the… the cost to deliver. I think Luke will be a lot on the sales and marketing side. I’m always gonna think about…
61 00:14:49.890 ⇒ 00:14:57.530 Uttam Kumaran: And Robert would think about, okay, are we building, like, a healthy… are we building, like, a healthy business? And so, yeah, I think that’s… that was good as well.
62 00:14:57.930 ⇒ 00:15:03.000 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, it was definitely, like, helpful to get some insight into that today, and I know we had
63 00:15:03.100 ⇒ 00:15:13.660 Kaela Gallagher: some other fires to deal with, but… Yeah. Yeah, I know Robert mentioned, like, getting some time to really dig into the people aspect of that, so I would love to… love to do that for sure.
64 00:15:13.660 ⇒ 00:15:14.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
65 00:15:16.090 ⇒ 00:15:22.299 Kaela Gallagher: I had a few things I wanted to run past you, usually I have, like, way more of an agenda built out, but…
66 00:15:22.300 ⇒ 00:15:27.279 Uttam Kumaran: No, and I added some stuff, too, so I feel like, in whatever order you want to go through…
67 00:15:27.510 ⇒ 00:15:37.860 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, cool. I guess my first question was in regard to, like, the healthcare reimbursement costs, because I saw that you had sent that email earlier today.
68 00:15:38.160 ⇒ 00:15:41.649 Kaela Gallagher: I didn’t realize, like, how many people were…
69 00:15:42.060 ⇒ 00:15:46.639 Kaela Gallagher: under a plan like that right now, it seems like it might just be Luke and I.
70 00:15:46.640 ⇒ 00:15:51.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s just YouTube, and it really was… It was mainly…
71 00:15:52.130 ⇒ 00:16:05.900 Uttam Kumaran: we wanted it to be a tool that we could use in negotiations, but not a, like, a across-the-board policy. And so, I think that’s how we’re thinking about it. I… I don’t immediately recall what we mentioned
72 00:16:05.940 ⇒ 00:16:16.310 Uttam Kumaran: to you or Luke, so when I was thinking about this process, I was, like, looking at typically how W2 covers, it’s typically around 50%.
73 00:16:16.360 ⇒ 00:16:19.659 Uttam Kumaran: And so, one thing that I was working with finance on is, like.
74 00:16:20.770 ⇒ 00:16:23.849 Uttam Kumaran: We were like, okay, we don’t want to do a policy that’s just…
75 00:16:24.520 ⇒ 00:16:32.150 Uttam Kumaran: like, some amount of a number. So instead, I was like, can we just do 50% up to a number? And then that’s something that…
76 00:16:32.700 ⇒ 00:16:37.300 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like it’s more closer to a policy that we can apply across the board.
77 00:16:38.130 ⇒ 00:16:39.050 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
78 00:16:39.690 ⇒ 00:16:47.230 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, so would that be for… that would be for people coming in now that we’re using this as a tool to negotiate with?
79 00:16:47.750 ⇒ 00:16:54.930 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I… I mean, I thought… I was hope… I was gonna… I think we were gonna apply to you and Luke as well, as, like, across-the-board policy.
80 00:16:55.250 ⇒ 00:16:58.099 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. I’m not sure what was, like…
81 00:16:58.930 ⇒ 00:17:09.060 Kaela Gallagher: negotiated with Luke, I can try to bring up his contract now. Okay. Definitely my understanding in the negotiations was, like, that you guys would be covering
82 00:17:09.319 ⇒ 00:17:15.949 Kaela Gallagher: my entire cost, and I think I had, like, let you guys know ahead of time, it would be around $1,000 a month.
83 00:17:16.319 ⇒ 00:17:24.730 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, fair. They wrote into the contract, like, healthcare will be reimbursed until W-2 is offered.
84 00:17:24.730 ⇒ 00:17:31.180 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay. I just don’t remember… I don’t recall exactly what was put in there, so let’s just go with… I’m fine to go with that.
85 00:17:31.250 ⇒ 00:17:45.519 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. And then I want to think about, like, just having a go-forward policy that is structured more like the one we proposed. So, if that’s what we put into your contract, then I’m actually fine to honor that. That’s no problem.
86 00:17:45.710 ⇒ 00:17:50.459 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, and let me pull up, like, Luke’s, too. I can look into what his is.
87 00:17:51.150 ⇒ 00:17:57.730 Kaela Gallagher: Oh, healthcare stipend, $500 a month. So his is written out as a stipend for a certain.
88 00:17:57.730 ⇒ 00:18:01.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, cause he was the fir- yeah, he was the first person, and then…
89 00:18:01.740 ⇒ 00:18:02.550 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
90 00:18:02.790 ⇒ 00:18:10.119 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we… yeah, so if on yours we put in full reimbursement, then let’s just go with that, but I would love for this to be…
91 00:18:11.070 ⇒ 00:18:14.789 Uttam Kumaran: the number that we put forth more of the proposal, but again, this is.
92 00:18:14.790 ⇒ 00:18:15.190 Kaela Gallagher: Coming down.
93 00:18:15.840 ⇒ 00:18:17.400 Uttam Kumaran: that I feel like…
94 00:18:18.670 ⇒ 00:18:24.000 Uttam Kumaran: I’m honestly more interested in, like, collaborating with… like, I don’t like to just be like, this is it.
95 00:18:24.000 ⇒ 00:18:24.390 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
96 00:18:24.390 ⇒ 00:18:27.800 Uttam Kumaran: I think as you start to get ownership or more understanding of, like.
97 00:18:28.400 ⇒ 00:18:32.209 Uttam Kumaran: The fully baked-in cost of folks and resources.
98 00:18:32.890 ⇒ 00:18:33.270 Kaela Gallagher: I’m open.
99 00:18:33.270 ⇒ 00:18:38.989 Uttam Kumaran: to readjusting. I think it just gives us a place to start that’s actually, like, I feel like pretty fair. Okay. Yeah.
100 00:18:39.220 ⇒ 00:18:52.270 Kaela Gallagher: I feel like the first, like, time I can kind of try to use this lever is, like, with Jasmine, because we’re working out details right now. Cool. And she was like, oh, Robert told me that I would just have, like, a full, kind of.
101 00:18:52.420 ⇒ 00:19:01.420 Kaela Gallagher: cash amount, like, I wouldn’t even need to get reimbursed, like, you guys would just give me a stipend for it. And I was like, well, I’ve never heard of anybody, like, I don’t know about that.
102 00:19:01.420 ⇒ 00:19:17.670 Uttam Kumaran: That’s also, like, things change, so it’s like, there’s no writing, so we are getting more formal. Finance would basically call me a bozo if I did that, so I’m like, I’d want to try, especially now, I want to make it easy for you to be like.
103 00:19:17.840 ⇒ 00:19:20.489 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, I have all these things on the shelf I can pull down from…
104 00:19:20.490 ⇒ 00:19:34.679 Kaela Gallagher: Yes, this is what I can reference. It’s super helpful. I also like doing a reimbursement and having a clause in there, like, you know, this will be a reimbursement until W-2 is offered, because then, like.
105 00:19:35.670 ⇒ 00:19:45.770 Kaela Gallagher: If we aren’t doing the reimbursement, some people will bake that into, like, their base, for example, so maybe we can get a little wiggle room on base if we’re offering this reimbursement, and once we convert to.
106 00:19:45.770 ⇒ 00:19:46.190 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
107 00:19:46.190 ⇒ 00:19:51.669 Kaela Gallagher: like, the reimbursement won’t be a thing. We’ll be doing in a different way. Totally. Totally. Okay.
108 00:19:51.670 ⇒ 00:19:54.740 Uttam Kumaran: And also, like, if it’s helpful, and I don’t know if you have…
109 00:19:55.350 ⇒ 00:20:01.580 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if you have, like, these listed, but it’s almost helpful if we could write down a blurb on, like.
110 00:20:01.760 ⇒ 00:20:08.530 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s fairly standard to have… to try to hit 50%, because that’s how it ends up working on our cost.
111 00:20:08.730 ⇒ 00:20:17.980 Uttam Kumaran: when… if we were to pay for healthcare anyways, the business isn’t… it actually comes… there’s, like, a piece of it that will come out of each employee, you know?
112 00:20:18.320 ⇒ 00:20:23.070 Uttam Kumaran: So I feel like it’s… It’s pretty fair, and if you need, like, a blurb to explain it.
113 00:20:23.430 ⇒ 00:20:27.730 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we can work… we can collaborate on a blurb, so that you always, like, have that.
114 00:20:28.200 ⇒ 00:20:34.730 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, okay, okay, that sounds good. I guess…
115 00:20:35.010 ⇒ 00:20:44.990 Kaela Gallagher: I guess we can go through your points next, before I dive into, like, the rest of my questions. Okay. Just thinking about Delivery Team Q2 and beyond.
116 00:20:44.990 ⇒ 00:20:45.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Is that right?
117 00:20:45.530 ⇒ 00:20:47.219 Kaela Gallagher: In regard to…
118 00:20:48.070 ⇒ 00:20:57.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me give you my, like, I’m formulating, sort of, like, what’s gonna change, and I think you aren’t as close to the delivery side, but I do want you to…
119 00:20:57.880 ⇒ 00:21:00.240 Uttam Kumaran: Start to see, kind of, like.
120 00:21:00.370 ⇒ 00:21:12.249 Uttam Kumaran: what the people you are hiring are actually, like, doing for us, and, like, what is their day-to-day? And so, this is where, I think, you know, maybe the two bullets are sort of related, but…
121 00:21:12.480 ⇒ 00:21:25.960 Uttam Kumaran: One thing that has been a… one thing that we did going into this quarter was try to establish these, like, delivery leadership roles. Delivery leadership roles being, like, the CSO, service lead, engagement player.
122 00:21:26.290 ⇒ 00:21:31.699 Uttam Kumaran: That wasn’t exist, that didn’t exist before. We sort of just had people on clients.
123 00:21:32.110 ⇒ 00:21:39.920 Uttam Kumaran: Believe it or not. And, so, one thing that I’m… one thing that I think was positive
124 00:21:40.220 ⇒ 00:21:43.170 Uttam Kumaran: was… I think it created some…
125 00:21:43.780 ⇒ 00:21:48.819 Uttam Kumaran: Accountability and some sense of ownership and a path upward in the company for a lot of people.
126 00:21:49.150 ⇒ 00:21:58.959 Uttam Kumaran: I… I think the one thing that was tough, though, is… We are in… we are…
127 00:21:59.130 ⇒ 00:22:06.820 Uttam Kumaran: Building the plane and flying at the same time, we didn’t spend enough time making sure that people…
128 00:22:07.370 ⇒ 00:22:09.420 Uttam Kumaran: adhered to…
129 00:22:09.590 ⇒ 00:22:15.870 Uttam Kumaran: the sort of expectations of each of those roles. Okay. And we also, I don’t think, took a step back and even, like.
130 00:22:16.020 ⇒ 00:22:20.490 Uttam Kumaran: said, what is… like the Brainforge way of delivering.
131 00:22:22.810 ⇒ 00:22:33.959 Uttam Kumaran: like, I… I just think we… we didn’t… but, like, the first piece is actually a byproduct of the second piece, meaning I don’t think we set
132 00:22:34.420 ⇒ 00:22:42.840 Uttam Kumaran: A really clear standard for like, the Brainforge delivery process, you know?
133 00:22:42.950 ⇒ 00:23:00.670 Uttam Kumaran: And one of the ways that this is commonly discussed, is called, like, people would say the Brainforge way. It’s really based on this book called, The McKinsey Way, which is a very, very famous book on the way McKinsey works.
134 00:23:00.670 ⇒ 00:23:01.770 Kaela Gallagher: And so…
135 00:23:01.990 ⇒ 00:23:08.959 Uttam Kumaran: It basically describes, like, How the hell they do the thing they’re doing, and what are the standards for
136 00:23:09.100 ⇒ 00:23:13.230 Uttam Kumaran: being a great, like, McKinsey consultant. And,
137 00:23:14.400 ⇒ 00:23:17.320 Uttam Kumaran: Like, these books are also… these books are great, but they’re also…
138 00:23:17.780 ⇒ 00:23:21.189 Uttam Kumaran: very boring, so… but I like this book, it’s great.
139 00:23:21.190 ⇒ 00:23:22.409 Kaela Gallagher: I love books like this.
140 00:23:22.410 ⇒ 00:23:26.660 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, really? Oh my gosh, then you would… then I have so… I have so many for…
141 00:23:27.010 ⇒ 00:23:32.160 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, me, because I feel like I’m the only one around here that’s, like, interested in these business books, but…
142 00:23:32.160 ⇒ 00:23:33.610 Kaela Gallagher: Another one…
143 00:23:33.610 ⇒ 00:23:37.860 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve picked up at Half Price Books that I have to read is The McKinsey Mind.
144 00:23:38.040 ⇒ 00:23:39.279 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay.
145 00:23:39.280 ⇒ 00:23:43.950 Uttam Kumaran: good. I have a bunch of these we should just… we could crush. Yeah!
146 00:23:44.150 ⇒ 00:23:54.389 Kaela Gallagher: Definitely, like, yeah, if you have any recs that you want me to read, let me know. My, like, favorite genre of books is, like, CEO biographies.
147 00:23:54.390 ⇒ 00:23:55.750 Uttam Kumaran: No way!
148 00:23:55.750 ⇒ 00:23:56.290 Kaela Gallagher: So you must.
149 00:23:56.290 ⇒ 00:23:59.749 Uttam Kumaran: You must like, the David Senra podcast.
150 00:24:00.500 ⇒ 00:24:01.840 Kaela Gallagher: Ugh, no, I haven’t heard.
151 00:24:01.840 ⇒ 00:24:04.220 Uttam Kumaran: Like, Founders? Have you heard of that podcast?
152 00:24:04.220 ⇒ 00:24:08.820 Kaela Gallagher: Founders? No, I’ve started listening to Diary of a CEO recently.
153 00:24:08.820 ⇒ 00:24:13.179 Uttam Kumaran: Dire CO is good. This one is… This one is…
154 00:24:13.180 ⇒ 00:24:13.790 Kaela Gallagher: Let me spotted.
155 00:24:13.790 ⇒ 00:24:15.409 Uttam Kumaran: This one’s even crazier.
156 00:24:15.580 ⇒ 00:24:19.650 Uttam Kumaran: really good. This guy’s, like, obsessed with this topic, it’s very, very good.
157 00:24:19.650 ⇒ 00:24:20.850 Kaela Gallagher: David Senra.
158 00:24:20.850 ⇒ 00:24:33.159 Uttam Kumaran: David Senra, founders. There’s a whole backlog of them, but, like, I don’t know, are you interest… do you find, like, a certain type of CEO or a certain, like, industry is interesting? Because I have a few that are, like.
159 00:24:33.540 ⇒ 00:24:39.379 Uttam Kumaran: You should just listen, like… you’ll listen tonight and be like, I want to jump through, like, a brick wall, like, right now.
160 00:24:39.380 ⇒ 00:24:45.450 Kaela Gallagher: I’ve loved, like, the tech and media space, like, Bob Iger’s Ride of a lifetime is probably my favorite.
161 00:24:45.450 ⇒ 00:24:46.150 Uttam Kumaran: Very, very good.
162 00:24:46.150 ⇒ 00:24:51.649 Kaela Gallagher: reading Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg right now, so, like, that kind of vibe I really enjoy.
163 00:24:51.650 ⇒ 00:25:01.619 Uttam Kumaran: Well, to give you a couple that are a little bit, like, left field, you should listen to, the founder’s podcast on, David Ogilvy.
164 00:25:02.160 ⇒ 00:25:03.090 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
165 00:25:03.390 ⇒ 00:25:09.580 Uttam Kumaran: You should also listen to the one on, coco Chanel.
166 00:25:10.680 ⇒ 00:25:11.760 Kaela Gallagher: Alright.
167 00:25:11.760 ⇒ 00:25:17.680 Uttam Kumaran: And, there’s one more that’s really good that I liked.
168 00:25:20.060 ⇒ 00:25:23.549 Kaela Gallagher: I’m gonna download these for my plane ride tomorrow.
169 00:25:23.550 ⇒ 00:25:38.380 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… it’s… These are insane. There’s also, this guy called, founders… This book is, founders…
170 00:25:38.990 ⇒ 00:25:40.080 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.
171 00:25:40.210 ⇒ 00:25:43.220 Uttam Kumaran: Sam Zell. So, Sam Zell started the.
172 00:25:43.220 ⇒ 00:25:44.110 Kaela Gallagher: First… Mmm.
173 00:25:44.110 ⇒ 00:25:45.839 Uttam Kumaran: Real Estate Investment Trust.
174 00:25:46.340 ⇒ 00:25:49.979 Uttam Kumaran: He has a great book called Am I Being Too Subtle?
175 00:25:50.750 ⇒ 00:25:56.450 Uttam Kumaran: And the problem is, once you start listening to these, you’ll realize I’m just copying, like, most of these people.
176 00:25:57.110 ⇒ 00:26:01.929 Uttam Kumaran: Which is great, because they figured a lot of this out for me.
177 00:26:02.790 ⇒ 00:26:10.679 Uttam Kumaran: David Ogilvy’s good. Ogilvy is one of the first and most successful marketing agencies in America.
178 00:26:11.130 ⇒ 00:26:11.700 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
179 00:26:11.700 ⇒ 00:26:14.060 Uttam Kumaran: We’re very, very famous for doing, like.
180 00:26:14.260 ⇒ 00:26:19.970 Uttam Kumaran: Some of the most famous advertising you’ve ever… you’ve ever seen, like.
181 00:26:19.970 ⇒ 00:26:20.640 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.
182 00:26:21.070 ⇒ 00:26:23.230 Uttam Kumaran: And so there’s a lot of, like.
183 00:26:24.040 ⇒ 00:26:27.819 Uttam Kumaran: Just the way he started it and the way he thinks about business is really good.
184 00:26:29.130 ⇒ 00:26:32.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel like… and then the Phil Knight book is really good, too.
185 00:26:35.820 ⇒ 00:26:38.630 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, this gives me a good starting… start.
186 00:26:38.630 ⇒ 00:26:42.130 Uttam Kumaran: Those are some, like, 3, like… Left field ones.
187 00:26:42.390 ⇒ 00:26:46.830 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess back to the topic, like, I was… mainly the thing I’m…
188 00:26:46.930 ⇒ 00:26:51.009 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to think about is, like, what is the Brainforged way of doing work?
189 00:26:51.130 ⇒ 00:26:51.810 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
190 00:26:51.960 ⇒ 00:26:55.590 Uttam Kumaran: And that expands, I think, both… like…
191 00:26:55.850 ⇒ 00:27:00.859 Uttam Kumaran: our work internally with each other, but also the work we do for clients. And so…
192 00:27:01.650 ⇒ 00:27:04.600 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like there was a lack of that this quarter.
193 00:27:04.970 ⇒ 00:27:06.890 Uttam Kumaran: And I…
194 00:27:07.770 ⇒ 00:27:12.980 Uttam Kumaran: I had, like, a little bit of, like, an argument with Clarence, because I was like, dude, I don’t think people are, like.
195 00:27:14.250 ⇒ 00:27:17.659 Uttam Kumaran: they don’t… but I think his point to me was more that
196 00:27:18.020 ⇒ 00:27:25.189 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think we’ve set the standards for what great delivery work looks like, very clearly. That document, it does an okay job.
197 00:27:25.320 ⇒ 00:27:31.400 Uttam Kumaran: But we’re gonna go one step further and set really, like, clear guidelines on what it’s like to deliver work here.
198 00:27:32.020 ⇒ 00:27:39.200 Uttam Kumaran: And then have a really clear way of, like, understanding how far each person is from hitting those standards.
199 00:27:39.450 ⇒ 00:27:43.490 Uttam Kumaran: And then try to find a way to mentor people to hit those standards.
200 00:27:43.880 ⇒ 00:27:51.809 Uttam Kumaran: I quickly jumped to, like, okay, do we have the right people? Not in an effort to, like, fire people, but in an effort to be, like.
201 00:27:52.000 ⇒ 00:28:05.529 Uttam Kumaran: do we need to hire better people? I think Clarence challenged me to think, like, hey, even if we hire more people, they’re walking to an environment with… without, like, a list of the ways that we do things. Yeah. And,
202 00:28:06.050 ⇒ 00:28:17.649 Uttam Kumaran: I was like, okay, I think I sort of makes sense. I still think that one of the trouble is just, like, enforcing and having accountability over that, which I think will be a lot of, like, Bea’s job this quarter.
203 00:28:17.800 ⇒ 00:28:26.780 Uttam Kumaran: But I wanted to mention that because you are going to be recruiting and nurturing these folks, and so over the next two weeks, I think you’ll…
204 00:28:27.240 ⇒ 00:28:32.460 Uttam Kumaran: I kind of want… I will kind of pitch it to the leadership group,
205 00:28:32.750 ⇒ 00:28:37.790 Uttam Kumaran: For all of us to sort of give our take and stamp on so that I can…
206 00:28:38.330 ⇒ 00:28:51.980 Uttam Kumaran: roll it out to, sort of, the rest of the team as, like, the way we do work. And that will include, like, the way we show up to meetings, the way we treat each other, but of course, there will also be… it’ll be quite heavy on just, like, how we…
207 00:28:52.220 ⇒ 00:28:54.970 Uttam Kumaran: Come across externally, and part of the reason
208 00:28:55.330 ⇒ 00:28:59.260 Uttam Kumaran: Is in consulting, the larger the clients we work in.
209 00:29:00.350 ⇒ 00:29:04.009 Uttam Kumaran: They actually are more okay with crappy engineering.
210 00:29:04.420 ⇒ 00:29:12.750 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re actually used to that, meaning they are more interested in, like, super, super tight project management, and, like…
211 00:29:12.750 ⇒ 00:29:13.350 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
212 00:29:13.350 ⇒ 00:29:15.499 Uttam Kumaran: Coming across really professional.
213 00:29:15.500 ⇒ 00:29:16.360 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
214 00:29:16.360 ⇒ 00:29:26.319 Uttam Kumaran: Clarence had a good, like, really two-liner about this, but, like, that’s the net-net, is, like, as you go up towards Fortune 1000, they’re used to things being slow and whatever.
215 00:29:26.430 ⇒ 00:29:32.620 Uttam Kumaran: But they actually are… they have a real emphasis on, like, poise, organization.
216 00:29:32.620 ⇒ 00:29:33.090 Kaela Gallagher: Your mom.
217 00:29:33.090 ⇒ 00:29:42.089 Uttam Kumaran: And that is something that, because our business, from Robert and I, we come from engineering background, the culture has not been that second piece, often.
218 00:29:42.090 ⇒ 00:29:42.800 Kaela Gallagher: I am.
219 00:29:42.800 ⇒ 00:29:49.039 Uttam Kumaran: And I think that’s… that’s one of the themes of this shift that I think
220 00:29:49.360 ⇒ 00:29:51.499 Uttam Kumaran: Will be made really, really clear.
221 00:29:51.730 ⇒ 00:29:56.590 Uttam Kumaran: Because if we’re gonna go work for, like, a Coca-Cola, Right?
222 00:29:56.820 ⇒ 00:29:59.590 Uttam Kumaran: You gotta, like, show up super, super hard.
223 00:30:01.050 ⇒ 00:30:01.500 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
224 00:30:01.500 ⇒ 00:30:04.270 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s what I want us to kind of keep in mind, you know?
225 00:30:04.270 ⇒ 00:30:17.689 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, okay, this is… I like this a lot, like, I’m happy to kind of, like, collaborate on that… that doc with you, and figure out how to kind of present it to the team. Also, like, very happy to…
226 00:30:17.860 ⇒ 00:30:24.150 Kaela Gallagher: weave some of that into orientation. So on, like, day one, our new team members are like.
227 00:30:24.150 ⇒ 00:30:24.860 Uttam Kumaran: understanding.
228 00:30:24.860 ⇒ 00:30:27.280 Kaela Gallagher: the standard that’s expected of them.
229 00:30:27.560 ⇒ 00:30:30.209 Kaela Gallagher: So what, yeah, maybe, like, once a.
230 00:30:30.210 ⇒ 00:30:35.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, can you talk to me about what our… I know a little bit of our current process, because I worked with Rico on it, but do you feel like…
231 00:30:36.650 ⇒ 00:30:43.270 Uttam Kumaran: we should make any changes, and I… I am… I always was… wanted to think about, like, a 30, 60, 90-day process that is…
232 00:30:43.610 ⇒ 00:30:50.989 Uttam Kumaran: because if you think about a McKinsey or a Goldman Sachs, like, you don’t… you, like, get trained for, like, 3 months.
233 00:30:50.990 ⇒ 00:30:51.370 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
234 00:30:52.390 ⇒ 00:30:54.249 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Yeah. And so…
235 00:30:55.560 ⇒ 00:30:55.940 Kaela Gallagher: I don’t think we.
236 00:30:55.940 ⇒ 00:30:57.339 Uttam Kumaran: The luxury of that?
237 00:30:57.340 ⇒ 00:30:58.440 Kaela Gallagher: No.
238 00:30:58.440 ⇒ 00:31:03.499 Uttam Kumaran: But… I do… I do want to think about something, you know?
239 00:31:03.500 ⇒ 00:31:04.090 Kaela Gallagher: Totally.
240 00:31:04.090 ⇒ 00:31:11.879 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want people to… I don’t want it to feel like a team of mercenaries. I want it to feel like you’re joining, like, a really tight operation.
241 00:31:11.880 ⇒ 00:31:26.319 Kaela Gallagher: 100%. Yeah, I feel like… so, I developed an onboarding, like, SOP, which I’m really excited to try out, like, starting tomorrow, with Advait, and, you know, that’s something we can, like, tweak, and I expect to tweak as we’re…
242 00:31:26.370 ⇒ 00:31:32.770 Kaela Gallagher: Onboarding people, and, like, measuring their success, and we’re running surveys with them, and all the… all those.
243 00:31:32.770 ⇒ 00:31:33.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
244 00:31:33.140 ⇒ 00:31:43.160 Kaela Gallagher: I know that right now, the onboarding dock is very much developed to address, like, pain points that I experienced coming in, like.
245 00:31:43.570 ⇒ 00:31:45.219 Kaela Gallagher: We both did this recently, so, like…
246 00:31:45.220 ⇒ 00:31:45.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
247 00:31:45.630 ⇒ 00:31:48.330 Kaela Gallagher: I’m starting to address those things, and like.
248 00:31:48.790 ⇒ 00:32:03.509 Kaela Gallagher: you know, really, like, develop kind of a schedule and a little bit more structure around orientation. Like, I didn’t even know what time to log in my first day. So, like, I’ve already discussed that with Edvate. We already have time on the calendar with, like, key people that he needs to talk to.
249 00:32:03.510 ⇒ 00:32:04.010 Uttam Kumaran: Amazing.
250 00:32:04.210 ⇒ 00:32:11.800 Kaela Gallagher: So, I’m hoping this will be, like, a good experience for him, but yeah, excited to, like, get his feedback.
251 00:32:11.800 ⇒ 00:32:18.580 Uttam Kumaran: For the most part, people just called me in the morning, and we got started.
252 00:32:18.880 ⇒ 00:32:36.139 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, exactly. No, but as you can tell, I’ve thought about this. It’s, like, something that we wanted to do for a long time, you know? Yeah. But I am thinking about… if we were to think about our teams, my ask from the delivery team would be, if we deliver you those standards.
253 00:32:36.680 ⇒ 00:32:40.230 Uttam Kumaran: Then how can… how can we collaborate to make sure
254 00:32:40.510 ⇒ 00:32:43.869 Uttam Kumaran: I think we have two audiences, right? We have existing folks.
255 00:32:44.060 ⇒ 00:32:44.660 Kaela Gallagher: Yes.
256 00:32:44.660 ⇒ 00:32:49.139 Uttam Kumaran: I almost think that’s a tougher crew, so, like, we just compartmentalize that, because…
257 00:32:49.140 ⇒ 00:32:49.900 Kaela Gallagher: habits.
258 00:32:49.900 ⇒ 00:33:05.859 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, if we compartmentalize that, for new people, how can the delivery team be a great stakeholder for your onboarding process? Like, how can we win, right? Because not only is it, like, finance needs to make people are onboarded.
259 00:33:06.000 ⇒ 00:33:09.319 Uttam Kumaran: Like, there’s all these stakeholders in that process.
260 00:33:09.560 ⇒ 00:33:15.529 Uttam Kumaran: How can the delivery team make sure that our standards are imparted on folks, and that we
261 00:33:16.200 ⇒ 00:33:20.520 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you could think about a measurement which is, like, by day 90,
262 00:33:20.790 ⇒ 00:33:27.229 Uttam Kumaran: as many people as possible are, like, hitting all the standards, right? As, like, a potential KPI here.
263 00:33:27.450 ⇒ 00:33:30.419 Uttam Kumaran: like, that’s sort of, like, what I want to think about.
264 00:33:31.030 ⇒ 00:33:41.379 Uttam Kumaran: And we can make it as grand or as not grand as we need. Now that, especially because we have separation between, like, me, you, and Rico, like, I feel like…
265 00:33:42.410 ⇒ 00:33:46.380 Uttam Kumaran: Again, the lovely thing about new people is they have no clue what it’s like.
266 00:33:46.520 ⇒ 00:33:58.669 Uttam Kumaran: So, part of my job is gonna be to try to shape up everybody that exists here, there, because ultimately, if they come in and we say something, and then it’s not the way, then we’re jammed.
267 00:33:58.670 ⇒ 00:33:59.170 Kaela Gallagher: Right.
268 00:33:59.170 ⇒ 00:34:10.650 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I am gonna try to take care of that, you know, as much as possible, really quickly. Okay. Really, for new people, I want them to walk into, like, a super tight situation where the expectations are…
269 00:34:10.969 ⇒ 00:34:11.389 Kaela Gallagher: 100%.
270 00:34:11.389 ⇒ 00:34:12.259 Uttam Kumaran: We’re really clear.
271 00:34:12.260 ⇒ 00:34:26.879 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, and that’s one of my Q2 OKRs, too, is to be able to, like, measure at day 90, like, is, like, is this person fully ramped and, like, at the level that we’re looking for? Like, are they meeting expectations? So…
272 00:34:27.449 ⇒ 00:34:31.230 Kaela Gallagher: Definitely something we’ll be building out and working on.
273 00:34:31.409 ⇒ 00:34:37.780 Kaela Gallagher: I noticed you also included a bullet about, like, people and operations.
274 00:34:38.350 ⇒ 00:34:48.179 Kaela Gallagher: I’m assuming that is, like, kind of a continuation of what was brought up earlier today. To me, like, the way that I understood it is that
275 00:34:49.400 ⇒ 00:35:00.040 Kaela Gallagher: By consolidation, you meant, like, maybe looking at Eliza, and having, like, Rico and I… Run everything.
276 00:35:00.040 ⇒ 00:35:00.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
277 00:35:00.380 ⇒ 00:35:01.710 Kaela Gallagher: Kind of what you were meaning.
278 00:35:01.940 ⇒ 00:35:06.319 Uttam Kumaran: Kind… yeah, kind of. Like… I think we just found that
279 00:35:06.900 ⇒ 00:35:11.470 Uttam Kumaran: I think… I… I think one is… We found that you two…
280 00:35:11.580 ⇒ 00:35:17.249 Uttam Kumaran: should lead a lot of things, and I want to find a way to maximize that. Meaning.
281 00:35:17.250 ⇒ 00:35:17.600 Kaela Gallagher: if you…
282 00:35:17.600 ⇒ 00:35:24.739 Uttam Kumaran: You guys are collaborating really well, and we kind of see people in operations closer, Then, it’s sort of…
283 00:35:24.950 ⇒ 00:35:26.860 Uttam Kumaran: my conversation with Robert is, like.
284 00:35:27.370 ⇒ 00:35:32.249 Uttam Kumaran: okay, should… should Kayla just run people on operations? Both?
285 00:35:32.920 ⇒ 00:35:36.490 Uttam Kumaran: Should it be, like, Should we just, like.
286 00:35:36.800 ⇒ 00:35:43.629 Uttam Kumaran: have Rico and Kayla operate closer together, because there’s a lot of overlap, and the teams are split.
287 00:35:44.010 ⇒ 00:35:52.630 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, I think everything, every line item on that thing is up for debate on, like, how we want to spend the money. Right. You know, so I think looking at every quarter.
288 00:35:53.090 ⇒ 00:35:56.509 Uttam Kumaran: We’re just like, are we happy with the way we spent this money?
289 00:35:56.790 ⇒ 00:35:57.390 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
290 00:35:57.390 ⇒ 00:36:00.690 Uttam Kumaran: like, are there better ways? I think for you.
291 00:36:00.830 ⇒ 00:36:02.840 Uttam Kumaran: like, if I was to put…
292 00:36:03.010 ⇒ 00:36:05.119 Uttam Kumaran: myself in your shoes. One is…
293 00:36:05.420 ⇒ 00:36:07.740 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t take anything that you can’t crush.
294 00:36:08.070 ⇒ 00:36:21.579 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And so I’m always gonna say that, which is, like, part of this in this company is gonna be, like, there’s gonna be a fair amount of, like, fake it till you make it. There’s also gonna be a fair amount of stuff where you’re like, I can do this, like, in my sleep. So you want to balance… you wanna balance.
295 00:36:21.580 ⇒ 00:36:22.550 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
296 00:36:23.970 ⇒ 00:36:29.189 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah. So, my comment here was going to be… two things.
297 00:36:29.390 ⇒ 00:36:45.260 Kaela Gallagher: One is I feel like Ricoh was, like, recent… more recently, my understanding at least, like, since Xixu left, is Rico’s, like, really become ops lead, and I’m worried if it was, like, okay, Kayla, like, run ops, that would be almost, like.
298 00:36:45.260 ⇒ 00:36:45.800 Uttam Kumaran: Fair.
299 00:36:46.640 ⇒ 00:36:48.560 Kaela Gallagher: Demoting him, in a way.
300 00:36:48.720 ⇒ 00:37:00.040 Kaela Gallagher: So I’m… I would be a little bit worried about, like, the morale in that sense. Also, like, I talk to Rico even more than I talk to you. Like, him and I think together, like, very.
301 00:37:00.040 ⇒ 00:37:01.310 Uttam Kumaran: Awesome.
302 00:37:01.310 ⇒ 00:37:13.479 Kaela Gallagher: I Slack him more than anybody else at the company, like, we are definitely very intertwined right now. Okay. And also, like, right now, I am doing 10-hour days, which I have no problem with.
303 00:37:13.480 ⇒ 00:37:14.590 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I…
304 00:37:14.590 ⇒ 00:37:19.870 Kaela Gallagher: I don’t feel like I could, like, take on operations right now.
305 00:37:19.870 ⇒ 00:37:21.109 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. As well. Okay.
306 00:37:21.110 ⇒ 00:37:23.700 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Fair. Cool.
307 00:37:24.010 ⇒ 00:37:26.089 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s totally fair. Then my ass…
308 00:37:26.090 ⇒ 00:37:27.160 Kaela Gallagher: visit, then?
309 00:37:27.160 ⇒ 00:37:35.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so then I think what I just want to be more… what I want all of us to just see in this process is, like, that question of…
310 00:37:36.440 ⇒ 00:37:40.060 Uttam Kumaran: like, what are… what is everybody on your team doing? I think…
311 00:37:40.630 ⇒ 00:37:51.429 Uttam Kumaran: Robert is gonna ask that to Rico, about Liza, and say, like, are you comfortable? Like, similarly, the things that we found on the sales team, they are happening across the company at any moment.
312 00:37:51.430 ⇒ 00:37:52.270 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah.
313 00:37:52.270 ⇒ 00:37:52.910 Uttam Kumaran: So…
314 00:37:53.610 ⇒ 00:38:10.460 Uttam Kumaran: again, I think a similar piece, like, all… every team except for sales is small. It’s one or two people, but they will grow. And so, I feel like it’s always healthy for us to look at this P&L every quarter and be like, are we comfortable with the way we spent money? Additionally, because I know that
315 00:38:10.730 ⇒ 00:38:20.740 Uttam Kumaran: both you and Rico are, like, that’s 10 hours spent extremely efficiently. Like, it’s… it’s like, we’re all doing a ton of things. So we’re just like, okay.
316 00:38:20.750 ⇒ 00:38:30.759 Uttam Kumaran: I want to ask Rico, are you comfortable? We spent this much on operations, are you comfortable with that? Like, do you think there’s other opportunities? There are other things that we want to do, like, we want thinking about this travel budget.
317 00:38:30.840 ⇒ 00:38:35.079 Uttam Kumaran: I’m consistently attacking this technology budget, like.
318 00:38:35.270 ⇒ 00:38:40.179 Uttam Kumaran: B is gonna take a look at this internal team meeting thing, right? And so I feel like we’re…
319 00:38:40.370 ⇒ 00:38:46.850 Uttam Kumaran: there’s other ways for us to spend all the money, no matter how small it is, and so I think it’s just…
320 00:38:47.020 ⇒ 00:38:48.790 Uttam Kumaran: us debating.
321 00:38:49.160 ⇒ 00:38:49.500 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
322 00:38:49.500 ⇒ 00:38:50.910 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah.
323 00:38:50.910 ⇒ 00:38:51.260 Kaela Gallagher: I think…
324 00:38:51.260 ⇒ 00:38:52.999 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… that’s sort of all it is.
325 00:38:53.000 ⇒ 00:38:54.200 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay.
326 00:38:54.310 ⇒ 00:39:02.280 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Awesome. I do have to hop in a couple minutes, but, like, my biggest.
327 00:39:02.280 ⇒ 00:39:07.429 Uttam Kumaran: Miranda’s questions… I could go through Miranda’s questions. Yeah, tell me about, these two.
328 00:39:07.900 ⇒ 00:39:20.080 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, so Jasmine, I had forwarded over an email to you and Robert, but her latest Question was…
329 00:39:20.240 ⇒ 00:39:23.980 Kaela Gallagher: Why am I not finding it in my email?
330 00:39:25.830 ⇒ 00:39:32.009 Kaela Gallagher: She wanted to know, like, what bonus structure she would be categorized in.
331 00:39:33.220 ⇒ 00:39:45.689 Kaela Gallagher: And then she did say, like, her monthly insurance costs would be… It’s looking like $920.
332 00:39:46.170 ⇒ 00:40:01.320 Kaela Gallagher: So she did quote that for us, because I asked her to look into that a little bit further, and then she said she wants to know, like, if her title will be service lead, and then if she would be, like, in the senior IC bracket.
333 00:40:01.440 ⇒ 00:40:08.130 Kaela Gallagher: So, the answer is… Yes, she’ll be a service lead for strategy,
334 00:40:08.370 ⇒ 00:40:15.389 Kaela Gallagher: Yes, she would be at the senior level in terms of comp, which is kind of what her and I already discussed.
335 00:40:15.620 ⇒ 00:40:22.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, on the bonus structure, so I… I am… this is also tied into, like, changes I’m trying to make for next.
336 00:40:22.740 ⇒ 00:40:23.510 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
337 00:40:23.960 ⇒ 00:40:27.200 Uttam Kumaran: So this is where, like, I don’t know, like, at normal companies, like.
338 00:40:28.080 ⇒ 00:40:34.449 Uttam Kumaran: things change, so I don’t… I almost, like, can’t… I don’t know, like, I… what… so, we have some people that are asking for…
339 00:40:34.600 ⇒ 00:40:36.090 Uttam Kumaran: Bonuses right now.
340 00:40:36.920 ⇒ 00:40:41.669 Uttam Kumaran: beyond… existing tenure raise. We have new people coming in.
341 00:40:42.110 ⇒ 00:40:45.090 Uttam Kumaran: this is where I’m almost like, I don’t know…
342 00:40:46.530 ⇒ 00:40:50.699 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like if I, as leading delivery, change the bonus structure.
343 00:40:50.960 ⇒ 00:40:57.970 Uttam Kumaran: I think you would probably say don’t change it, because I’m actively pitching this, but I’m also… I’m also of the mode, like.
344 00:40:58.460 ⇒ 00:41:06.720 Uttam Kumaran: you can just blame me if it changes, because I’m… I have to… I am reassessing how we decided to do bonuses this quarter.
345 00:41:07.640 ⇒ 00:41:09.530 Uttam Kumaran: And thinking about the fact that
346 00:41:10.160 ⇒ 00:41:15.509 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of people that are gonna be eligible for the bonus didn’t do all the things that I said.
347 00:41:15.900 ⇒ 00:41:21.810 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like, that’s on me. Like, I… I take… I take the blame for…
348 00:41:21.930 ⇒ 00:41:27.419 Uttam Kumaran: Like, not making it super clear what those were, and still being like, okay, people are gonna get bonuses.
349 00:41:27.550 ⇒ 00:41:32.590 Uttam Kumaran: And so we’re gonna readjust slightly… Okay. …what the expectations are.
350 00:41:32.760 ⇒ 00:41:34.000 Kaela Gallagher: Cause I know, like.
351 00:41:34.260 ⇒ 00:41:49.589 Kaela Gallagher: I do have access to people’s contracts, I haven’t read through how everybody’s has been written, except, like, Amber and Damies, but, I know, like, the way mine was written out was that there were very specific, like, OKRs, like, if you hit this, the bonus would be…
352 00:41:49.590 ⇒ 00:41:52.940 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, but I guess I’m only talking about delivery team.
353 00:41:52.940 ⇒ 00:41:54.610 Kaela Gallagher: Not, not our group.
354 00:41:54.610 ⇒ 00:41:55.490 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
355 00:41:55.490 ⇒ 00:42:03.709 Kaela Gallagher: theirs were written more so as, like, you can be eligible for bonus, but, like, there wasn’t specific things listed. Correct. Okay.
356 00:42:03.830 ⇒ 00:42:06.680 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, so that puts us in a different spot. Got it.
357 00:42:07.540 ⇒ 00:42:09.950 Uttam Kumaran: To be, to be honest, like.
358 00:42:12.680 ⇒ 00:42:19.430 Uttam Kumaran: And this is where, like, again, if I was to take the side, one, In many companies.
359 00:42:19.600 ⇒ 00:42:25.919 Uttam Kumaran: like, folks would… like, the typical… the EY bonus this year was, like, 5%.
360 00:42:26.810 ⇒ 00:42:27.730 Uttam Kumaran: So… What?
361 00:42:28.570 ⇒ 00:42:31.480 Uttam Kumaran: We are not only typically above range.
362 00:42:31.910 ⇒ 00:42:38.129 Uttam Kumaran: we’re a great place to work, and we’re… we’re also… we’re trying… I’m trying to get people to, like, 20 or 30% bonus. Like, I’m trying.
363 00:42:38.130 ⇒ 00:42:41.120 Kaela Gallagher: yeah.
364 00:42:41.740 ⇒ 00:42:48.440 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a lot of people I’m talking to who are like, dude, what are you… why are you doing that? So, this is where I’m almost like.
365 00:42:48.630 ⇒ 00:42:59.780 Uttam Kumaran: I wonder if I’m, like, if we’re get… like, I don’t want to get bullied in this process, you know, by folks being like, let’s go for more. I… I don’t know what you think about that.
366 00:42:59.940 ⇒ 00:43:13.579 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to take our leadership group out of it, because for… I think us is a different structure, but for team, I feel really confident that on, like, the way we pay, and the work style it is, and the growth.
367 00:43:14.680 ⇒ 00:43:17.070 Uttam Kumaran: This is a great deal for folks to take.
368 00:43:17.330 ⇒ 00:43:24.250 Uttam Kumaran: So, I’m wondering if, like, you also agree with that, and just, like, thinking through it, or if that… these… thinking this way is, like.
369 00:43:24.500 ⇒ 00:43:26.570 Uttam Kumaran: Even helpful, I don’t know.
370 00:43:26.790 ⇒ 00:43:46.690 Kaela Gallagher: The thing that I’m most concerned about is how many people have been sent to the Brainforge Total Rewards Doc, because it, like, specifically lists out, like, oh, if you are an engagement planner, you should be at 20-35% bonus. So then, somebody like Amber might see that and be like.
371 00:43:46.740 ⇒ 00:43:58.670 Kaela Gallagher: I just completed a year, where’s my 20-35% bonus? You know? So, I’m just, like, worried about who this doc has gone to, and I’m wondering if that is why
372 00:43:58.810 ⇒ 00:44:00.930 Kaela Gallagher: People are asking for things.
373 00:44:01.540 ⇒ 00:44:07.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think I… I think that’s also… I have to lay it out really clearly,
374 00:44:09.610 ⇒ 00:44:13.440 Uttam Kumaran: The nice thing is, the total rewards document is…
375 00:44:13.600 ⇒ 00:44:25.769 Uttam Kumaran: completely subject to change, and so there isn’t any paper signed across that document, but it is a guiding doc for, like, how we think people can actually achieve here. It is… it is less about
376 00:44:25.940 ⇒ 00:44:34.440 Uttam Kumaran: the people that exist right now and what they have achieved, and I’m confident if I went through that Forging the Future doc with the expectations for everybody.
377 00:44:35.040 ⇒ 00:44:41.559 Uttam Kumaran: There’s not a single person on the delivery team that has hit the expectations put in that document, so people are gonna tell me.
378 00:44:41.820 ⇒ 00:44:44.189 Uttam Kumaran: People… are gonna re… like…
379 00:44:45.600 ⇒ 00:45:00.220 Uttam Kumaran: Net-net, like, nobody’s hit the stuff that we’ve had to do to do the bonus. I’m still gonna try to give people the bonus this quarter, but this next quarter, I’m really gonna tighten up and say there’s no bonus outside of sales, like, bringing in a new logo.
380 00:45:00.430 ⇒ 00:45:00.850 Kaela Gallagher: Selling…
381 00:45:00.850 ⇒ 00:45:08.750 Uttam Kumaran: new work that’s going to be available until everybody hits the standards. The difference in why I think we can adhere to that is…
382 00:45:08.850 ⇒ 00:45:23.819 Uttam Kumaran: like, you’re here, Bea’s here, and Rico’s here, and we’re gonna come up with a structure to basically say, are all these people hitting the standards? I am more than confident that all those folks here can do those things and get the bonus. And I know that if they do those things.
383 00:45:23.980 ⇒ 00:45:34.620 Uttam Kumaran: our company will be glowing. We would have saved two clients this quarter had we done all those things. So in that sense, like, I’m confident that people can actually achieve that level of pay.
384 00:45:34.850 ⇒ 00:45:35.240 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
385 00:45:35.240 ⇒ 00:45:43.290 Uttam Kumaran: I’m confident Jasmine can do that. I can see that people want more surety on it, but that’s not the way… that’s not the way…
386 00:45:44.460 ⇒ 00:45:52.300 Uttam Kumaran: that’s not the way it works. Like, I want surety that you’re gonna hit all these things, right? So that’s the, I think, the negotiation a little bit.
387 00:45:52.850 ⇒ 00:45:53.620 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
388 00:45:54.360 ⇒ 00:45:55.140 Kaela Gallagher: And so…
389 00:45:55.140 ⇒ 00:46:05.909 Uttam Kumaran: the reason why we put that in the total rewards doc, is because if you’re at Brainforge, like a lot of people, and you’re able to… like, Greg has helped sell additional work, Pranav is helping sell additional work, like…
390 00:46:06.060 ⇒ 00:46:11.520 Uttam Kumaran: like, there’s all these op… you’re… you can refer, Ken, there’s all these opportunities to get bonus money here.
391 00:46:11.720 ⇒ 00:46:12.110 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
392 00:46:12.410 ⇒ 00:46:22.050 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s sort of how we’re trying to ladder it up. I can do a much better job at making it, like, super crisp, and then updating the total rewards doc with whatever our latest system is.
393 00:46:22.050 ⇒ 00:46:24.570 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, yeah, I can definitely, like…
394 00:46:25.320 ⇒ 00:46:31.930 Kaela Gallagher: have that on my radar to update, update that doc. I do have to hop to… Okay.
395 00:46:32.250 ⇒ 00:46:35.529 Kaela Gallagher: a call with a data engineering candidate. Oh, great!
396 00:46:35.530 ⇒ 00:46:36.460 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
397 00:46:36.690 ⇒ 00:46:40.850 Kaela Gallagher: I’ll… I’ll follow up on a couple other of the.
398 00:46:40.850 ⇒ 00:46:41.310 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
399 00:46:41.310 ⇒ 00:46:42.449 Kaela Gallagher: that I had listed.
400 00:46:42.450 ⇒ 00:46:43.259 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, perfect.
401 00:46:43.260 ⇒ 00:46:45.200 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, cool, thanks for your time.
402 00:46:45.310 ⇒ 00:46:46.220 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, bye.