Meeting Title: Robert - Luke - ICP Lead Quality Review Date: 2026-02-17 Meeting participants: Luke Scorziell, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:00:27.710 ⇒ 00:00:28.640 Robert Tseng: Hey.
2 00:00:28.820 ⇒ 00:00:30.470 Luke Scorziell: Hey, how you doing?
3 00:00:31.630 ⇒ 00:00:36.550 Robert Tseng: Good. Just, trying to get… Ship the proposals out.
4 00:00:38.950 ⇒ 00:00:45.360 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, getting a lot of them out. I saw the, spent some time looking through the,
5 00:00:46.770 ⇒ 00:00:49.770 Luke Scorziell: Through HubSpot, which I haven’t done in a minute.
6 00:00:50.340 ⇒ 00:00:50.910 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
7 00:00:51.490 ⇒ 00:00:56.449 Luke Scorziell: I think, yeah, I had a theory last week that we’re un… or, I mean, yeah, we’re probably underutilizing HubSpot.
8 00:00:56.930 ⇒ 00:01:00.979 Luke Scorziell: But, we’re gonna have to figure it all out now. But
9 00:01:01.460 ⇒ 00:01:06.760 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, it was helpful just to see, like, the deal flow, and see all their numbers and whatnot, and…
10 00:01:07.360 ⇒ 00:01:09.599 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, super cool on the minute, MD.
11 00:01:10.260 ⇒ 00:01:14.610 Luke Scorziell: That deal, too. And then also just seeing, like, emails and stuff that people sent that I think was helpful.
12 00:01:15.310 ⇒ 00:01:16.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
13 00:01:16.000 ⇒ 00:01:23.440 Luke Scorziell: the proper… Yeah, proper, and then the Global VetLink stuff was interesting, too.
14 00:01:23.440 ⇒ 00:01:32.809 Robert Tseng: it’s not gonna close. Pius is so… is like… he has tried… it never lines up. I… I mean, I’m just very skeptical that his deal will actually come through.
15 00:01:33.410 ⇒ 00:01:34.890 Luke Scorziell: Yeah. Is…
16 00:01:34.890 ⇒ 00:01:50.359 Robert Tseng: he likes to hype up his… his deal, and then he comes in, he’s always like, oh, you guys are more expensive than I thought. I’m like, dude, you work here, you know what this is, like, I’m not gonna… I’m not gonna do this for cheap, like, just because you’re a friend, like, I’m not gonna…
17 00:01:50.800 ⇒ 00:01:53.789 Robert Tseng: It just doesn’t… I… I don’t… I don’t… I don’t really…
18 00:01:54.040 ⇒ 00:02:00.250 Robert Tseng: I don’t really want to do business with him, to be honest. I just don’t really think he’s ever given us a good deal.
19 00:02:00.750 ⇒ 00:02:02.659 Luke Scorziell: Interesting, yeah. Yeah.
20 00:02:02.860 ⇒ 00:02:07.450 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I guess, well, what would be, like, a good…
21 00:02:07.830 ⇒ 00:02:11.909 Luke Scorziell: way to go through, like, this kind of analysis. I know this is, like, the first time we’ve…
22 00:02:12.570 ⇒ 00:02:18.290 Luke Scorziell: met and done this. I tried to use Cursor to help me come up with something, I think it was, like.
23 00:02:18.890 ⇒ 00:02:20.899 Luke Scorziell: Hopeful-ish, but not, like…
24 00:02:22.040 ⇒ 00:02:29.069 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, I didn’t do any prep for this, so we can kind of start from… back into it, and then, I guess,
25 00:02:30.590 ⇒ 00:02:40.419 Robert Tseng: Well, probably my starting point would be to go back into Notion, look at, where we have… where we’re at with, ICP,
26 00:02:40.840 ⇒ 00:02:42.540 Robert Tseng: I haven’t looked at it in a while.
27 00:02:44.780 ⇒ 00:02:45.470 Luke Scorziell: Kind of.
28 00:02:47.720 ⇒ 00:02:48.769 Luke Scorziell: Pushing on the…
29 00:02:55.090 ⇒ 00:02:57.230 Luke Scorziell: What did Pius do when he was working here?
30 00:02:58.150 ⇒ 00:03:00.390 Robert Tseng: He was, like, a… analyst.
31 00:03:01.150 ⇒ 00:03:02.430 Luke Scorziell: Apple, okay.
32 00:03:02.430 ⇒ 00:03:03.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
33 00:03:03.600 ⇒ 00:03:09.909 Robert Tseng: He was working with me at my previous at my, my previous…
34 00:03:10.530 ⇒ 00:03:15.400 Robert Tseng: you see it was called Pungo. And so he was… him and Jasmine were working, were my two analysts.
35 00:03:15.550 ⇒ 00:03:19.180 Robert Tseng: And then, I mean, he’s good, he’s, like…
36 00:03:19.550 ⇒ 00:03:28.940 Robert Tseng: truly full stack, like, same level as Utam and me, probably. I mean, obviously everyone has different strengths, but, like, can under… can…
37 00:03:29.050 ⇒ 00:03:35.640 Robert Tseng: is functionally, like, a head of data, kind of person. He just, like, is…
38 00:03:36.090 ⇒ 00:03:38.789 Robert Tseng: He’s got so many side quests, like…
39 00:03:39.220 ⇒ 00:03:43.799 Robert Tseng: He’s, like, on some ballet city council doing, like, some master’s program.
40 00:03:44.130 ⇒ 00:03:50.690 Robert Tseng: Research at Harvard. I mean, he just, like, I don’t know, he just likes to do a million things.
41 00:03:51.070 ⇒ 00:03:56.629 Robert Tseng: And just didn’t feel like he was giving his best work to… do Brainforge,
42 00:03:56.900 ⇒ 00:04:00.700 Robert Tseng: So yeah, it was just always kind of like a push and pull with him, where…
43 00:04:00.840 ⇒ 00:04:15.149 Robert Tseng: Yeah, he’s… he’s… he’s… he’s a nice guy, fun to talk to, and definitely a friend of the business, but, like, it’s just, like, his work is chaos, in my opinion. I… I don’t… I… I think he… his reputation precedes him, but, like, I think…
44 00:04:15.560 ⇒ 00:04:23.670 Robert Tseng: I don’t know if he ever really just sits down and just, like, does the thing that he wants to do. I think he just likes to have his hands in a million places.
45 00:04:23.900 ⇒ 00:04:25.170 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
46 00:04:25.690 ⇒ 00:04:26.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
47 00:04:26.490 ⇒ 00:04:30.300 Luke Scorziell: Some… some type of pattern with the entrepreneurial-type people.
48 00:04:30.880 ⇒ 00:04:41.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I mean, it, like, has gotten him into trouble. Like, he’s gotten into legal trouble multiple times, because he’s, like, so haphazard. Like, you can’t really be, like, trigger-happy in data, like…
49 00:04:41.220 ⇒ 00:04:41.630 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
50 00:04:41.630 ⇒ 00:04:44.019 Robert Tseng: If something comes across your desk, and you just, like.
51 00:04:44.310 ⇒ 00:04:50.429 Robert Tseng: Alright, let’s do it, and without really reviewing it, I mean… I mean, even, like, the thing, I mean, that’s our… that’s on us, the whole…
52 00:04:50.610 ⇒ 00:04:58.490 Robert Tseng: sharing Eden’s data, like, that could make us go out of business if Eden wanted to, like, really go after us. I mean, that probably wouldn’t, but…
53 00:04:58.600 ⇒ 00:05:07.369 Robert Tseng: You know, he’s… he’s been in hot water in a much worse situation than that, that has cost much more money.
54 00:05:07.590 ⇒ 00:05:14.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but I understand the risk, like, we’ve… we’ve all been there, like, kind of, this part of the nervous…
55 00:05:14.420 ⇒ 00:05:32.949 Robert Tseng: part of, like, the… yeah, I mean, that’s the worst part of the job. Like, there’s just too much responsibility, and, like, if I make a bad decision, there’s a data breach, or, like, we share… so we make a bad decision and costs a bunch of money, then, like, we end up just… yeah, you just get… you get roasted for that, so…
56 00:05:33.370 ⇒ 00:05:36.359 Luke Scorziell: That’s pretty much what happened to me at Ruggable.
57 00:05:36.530 ⇒ 00:05:42.039 Robert Tseng: I feel like I made a lot of good decisions, and I made one bad decision, and then they pulled me off of,
58 00:05:42.160 ⇒ 00:05:45.650 Robert Tseng: the project that I wanted to be on, and…
59 00:05:45.940 ⇒ 00:05:54.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that… that was that. It’s like a pretty unforgiving… unforgiving role once you’re… once you’re, at… at that… at that level, so…
60 00:05:55.060 ⇒ 00:05:55.810 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
61 00:05:56.800 ⇒ 00:06:00.019 Luke Scorziell: That’s an interesting context. Yeah, I think the Eden thing, at least.
62 00:06:00.690 ⇒ 00:06:02.780 Luke Scorziell: I was like, I know.
63 00:06:03.060 ⇒ 00:06:04.230 Luke Scorziell: Never too.
64 00:06:05.210 ⇒ 00:06:10.219 Luke Scorziell: just to accept whatever things the engineers send. But yeah, I mean, that makes sense on the…
65 00:06:11.360 ⇒ 00:06:18.949 Luke Scorziell: Like, you’re dealing with sensitive company data, and… That is pretty much… I guess everything right now.
66 00:06:19.330 ⇒ 00:06:20.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
67 00:06:21.020 ⇒ 00:06:24.799 Luke Scorziell: Was Ruggable… what kind of company were they?
68 00:06:25.500 ⇒ 00:06:35.960 Robert Tseng: They’re, like, a… they’re an e-com company, direct-to-consumer runs company, and there are multiple places now, like, they have retail and wholesale partners at this point, but…
69 00:06:35.960 ⇒ 00:06:45.809 Robert Tseng: They’re based in LA. The whole thing is, like, machine washable rugs, but if you’re not a pet owner and you don’t have small kids, you probably wouldn’t have heard of it, because they’re not really… you’re not really their target audience.
70 00:06:46.170 ⇒ 00:06:47.769 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
71 00:06:49.390 ⇒ 00:06:50.010 Luke Scorziell: Whoa.
72 00:06:50.010 ⇒ 00:06:52.669 Robert Tseng: I mean, I was there when they were…
73 00:06:52.810 ⇒ 00:06:58.389 Robert Tseng: about $100 million in revenue, and then they grew to, like… yeah, when I was there, I mean, I feel like it helped
74 00:06:58.690 ⇒ 00:07:06.020 Robert Tseng: me and… oh, obviously, I don’t take credit, but they went from 100 to 400 million, in a year, which was, like, crazy.
75 00:07:06.020 ⇒ 00:07:06.630 Luke Scorziell: Huh.
76 00:07:06.630 ⇒ 00:07:15.790 Robert Tseng: it was also, like, during the pandemic when everyone went shopping online, so I think, that helped too. But then growth… they over-hired, growth slowed.
77 00:07:16.160 ⇒ 00:07:22.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, my big bet was, like, oh, they should move into premium, or… or they…
78 00:07:23.100 ⇒ 00:07:30.000 Robert Tseng: not premium. They should go into basics. Like, they should, like, sell a cheaper product. And I was pushing on that initiative.
79 00:07:30.100 ⇒ 00:07:34.910 Robert Tseng: It’s kind of a flop. They ended up going more premium, selling higher prices, and
80 00:07:35.070 ⇒ 00:07:40.179 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that was… that was, I got taken off of the Ruggs product, and they moved me to, like.
81 00:07:40.660 ⇒ 00:07:47.739 Robert Tseng: So, like, something about, like, design, like, analytics for designers, or for the design team.
82 00:07:47.870 ⇒ 00:07:49.680 Robert Tseng: I was like, this is just, like…
83 00:07:50.100 ⇒ 00:07:53.820 Robert Tseng: It’s kind of a nonsense role, so I didn’t want to be there anymore.
84 00:07:54.260 ⇒ 00:07:57.250 Luke Scorziell: And was that when you were with Punga? Or, like, through Ponga?
85 00:07:57.250 ⇒ 00:08:08.110 Robert Tseng: Oh, this was before Pungo, yeah. So, I was actually working half-time. I had already dropped my… I already… I first, like, stepped back in Ruggable. I dropped to, like, a contractor.
86 00:08:08.650 ⇒ 00:08:13.710 Robert Tseng: So I was… when I was working at Tapestry, and then,
87 00:08:13.860 ⇒ 00:08:23.969 Robert Tseng: yeah, after I left Tapestry, they also cut me as a contractor, which, I mean, made sense. I was already doing less time. So, yeah, that all happened, like.
88 00:08:24.330 ⇒ 00:08:26.110 Robert Tseng: March 2023.
89 00:08:27.850 ⇒ 00:08:28.380 Luke Scorziell: Bye.
90 00:08:28.380 ⇒ 00:08:28.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
91 00:08:31.080 ⇒ 00:08:32.110 Luke Scorziell: Yep.
92 00:08:32.480 ⇒ 00:08:38.150 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, I’ll… I feel like every… every senior data person kind of has, like, that one…
93 00:08:38.250 ⇒ 00:08:57.559 Robert Tseng: Otherwise, you would have stayed at the same place, but if you, like, hopped around multiple times as a head of data, it’s probably because you, like, messed up at some point. Like, there’s… there’s no… there’s, like, there’s no reason for you to move otherwise. And yeah, I think everybody has a… has a… has a flaming-out story, so…
94 00:08:57.950 ⇒ 00:08:58.510 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
95 00:08:58.790 ⇒ 00:09:03.379 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, that’s part of earning your career, I guess.
96 00:09:03.810 ⇒ 00:09:04.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
97 00:09:04.630 ⇒ 00:09:05.400 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
98 00:09:05.580 ⇒ 00:09:11.209 Luke Scorziell: Still waiting. Or, I mean, I’ve had my own… a couple of them. I guess I’m not really on, like, the data side, but,
99 00:09:11.700 ⇒ 00:09:15.480 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, it’s… there’s been… That was a good one with Eden.
100 00:09:15.960 ⇒ 00:09:17.329 Luke Scorziell: Like, okay, that’s tough.
101 00:09:18.040 ⇒ 00:09:19.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
102 00:09:19.360 ⇒ 00:09:22.100 Luke Scorziell: But, fortunately, yeah, not… not so bad.
103 00:09:22.100 ⇒ 00:09:23.160 Robert Tseng: But… Yeah.
104 00:09:23.160 ⇒ 00:09:24.430 Luke Scorziell: Significant happened.
105 00:09:27.560 ⇒ 00:09:38.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess kind of going back to this, yeah, we had previously tried to, like, group ICPs by their stage of growth.
106 00:09:40.150 ⇒ 00:09:46.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we’re frankly not really talking to these people at this point. I mean, there are a couple. I feel like we’re mostly talking to…
107 00:09:47.050 ⇒ 00:09:53.130 Robert Tseng: Scale-ups. We have a few of these in our, in our book, and in our lead list now.
108 00:09:53.810 ⇒ 00:09:56.960 Robert Tseng: So I think it’s good. Like, generally, we are, like, kind of…
109 00:09:57.200 ⇒ 00:10:00.769 Robert Tseng: Hitting more, upmarket than we were before.
110 00:10:01.070 ⇒ 00:10:01.420 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
111 00:10:01.420 ⇒ 00:10:05.749 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we had written a few of these things before. I had, like.
112 00:10:06.330 ⇒ 00:10:16.089 Robert Tseng: moved some of this into cursor, and I was, like, trying to build something to basically help flush out these profiles more, and I basically… and I want this library to live in…
113 00:10:16.190 ⇒ 00:10:24.390 Robert Tseng: and be managed in Cursor rather than in Notion, unless, like, yeah, like, I feel like if it… by the time it ends up here, it should just be in its final form.
114 00:10:24.630 ⇒ 00:10:27.780 Robert Tseng: But, I mean, I don’t feel like it really…
115 00:10:29.260 ⇒ 00:10:39.070 Robert Tseng: we just needed the… just having this was, like, enough to kind of move forward. So, now that we’re coming back here, I would like to kind of recap of, like.
116 00:10:39.560 ⇒ 00:10:51.459 Robert Tseng: well, of the leads that we have talked to in the past month, like, how many of them are really… like, how do they really fit into this framework, and, like, are they actually… are we learning anything about these ICPs that we just defined?
117 00:10:51.940 ⇒ 00:10:52.840 Robert Tseng: and, like.
118 00:10:52.980 ⇒ 00:11:12.449 Robert Tseng: you know, if we haven’t talked to people at all in this range, then we should move them out. Like, I think it’s… we’ve given it a month, and we should kind of come up with a next set that we should be looking at in the… in the month. I think that’s… that’s kind of how I… how I see it, this… this… this kind of exercise going.
119 00:11:13.290 ⇒ 00:11:15.490 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, I think so…
120 00:11:16.340 ⇒ 00:11:26.060 Luke Scorziell: We had the… I had the Layer Lands and Eisenberg conversations. MinuteMD, I’m assuming they’re… Healthcare? Was that healthcare?
121 00:11:26.060 ⇒ 00:11:27.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah, healthcare.
122 00:11:27.750 ⇒ 00:11:36.779 Luke Scorziell: And then… So, yeah, just running through it. MinuteMD, Global VetLink, Ellie.
123 00:11:37.210 ⇒ 00:11:42.109 Luke Scorziell: Plan Medicare, Proper, UVersion, Amble, and Grayling have kind of been the…
124 00:11:42.740 ⇒ 00:11:46.840 Luke Scorziell: The main conversations that it looked like we’ve had over the last two weeks.
125 00:11:47.910 ⇒ 00:11:48.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
126 00:11:51.710 ⇒ 00:12:02.380 Luke Scorziell: No, no, so those are all… I mean, like, yeah, it’s a lot more on the company side. So it’s interesting, yeah, I think scale-up CMOs and VPs of growth, we’ve not really, like.
127 00:12:03.000 ⇒ 00:12:08.150 Luke Scorziell: I mean, maybe we went after it a little bit, but I think we could move…
128 00:12:09.690 ⇒ 00:12:11.320 Luke Scorziell: Well, unless we wanna…
129 00:12:14.230 ⇒ 00:12:20.570 Robert Tseng: Oh, I think… I think that is right, that’s the right. We definitely… of the list, even half of those people are… are in this. It’s like…
130 00:12:21.160 ⇒ 00:12:29.090 Robert Tseng: Global VetLink, Kat is the head of… she’s, like, the executive, whatever, VP of Marketing, or…
131 00:12:29.230 ⇒ 00:12:31.219 Robert Tseng: Product, or whatever, so…
132 00:12:31.290 ⇒ 00:12:44.460 Robert Tseng: there’s that, and then Min and MD is also VP of Growth. I think, yeah, that is… that is very much, like, the one that I feel like we nailed, or, like, that’s… that will consi… I feel like that’s… those will be the people we consistently talk to.
133 00:12:44.460 ⇒ 00:12:52.240 Robert Tseng: Especially as we’re promoting the edge to… edge-to-activation, like, it’s… those are the… those are the people that… that want… that want it.
134 00:12:52.950 ⇒ 00:12:55.920 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, wait, so… Ellie?
135 00:12:55.920 ⇒ 00:13:02.490 Robert Tseng: Ellie is also, like, that’s also, VP of Marketing, whatever, so…
136 00:13:02.780 ⇒ 00:13:06.420 Luke Scorziell: Alright, and then Double White Link, what was her title again?
137 00:13:07.510 ⇒ 00:13:13.719 Robert Tseng: I don’t… I mean, I don’t know what her title is, but she’s basically the leader of product and marketing, but more marketing-focused.
138 00:13:17.150 ⇒ 00:13:21.080 Luke Scorziell: And what… I mean, proper you said was kind of a waste. Amble and Grayling?
139 00:13:21.320 ⇒ 00:13:28.389 Robert Tseng: Well, proper, we’ll see what happens, but I don’t really think it’ll work out. I would say Proper is, like, a VP of Ops.
140 00:13:28.800 ⇒ 00:13:31.919 Luke Scorziell: He’s like a finance… he’s a VP of Finance, which is just…
141 00:13:32.150 ⇒ 00:13:32.930 Robert Tseng: F.
142 00:13:35.310 ⇒ 00:13:52.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it just really depends on how well Pius can advocate for us. Finance people, like, they don’t understand how to budget for our work. We’ve never made a sale to a… to a, like, a CFO or VP of Finance. They just… they just don’t… they’re not the right buyer for our services.
143 00:13:53.440 ⇒ 00:13:58.690 Luke Scorziell: And then, what about, you version, Hamble, and Grayling.
144 00:13:59.740 ⇒ 00:14:16.329 Robert Tseng: Grayling is not a customer, they’re a partner. That’s Cutter. Yeah, so I would not consider them part of it. Uversion, I mean, I’m… I need to… I also need to send the SOW. I feel like it’s unlikely. I’m talking to…
145 00:14:16.480 ⇒ 00:14:19.940 Robert Tseng: the, like, VP of Products, but, like.
146 00:14:20.080 ⇒ 00:14:22.370 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, they’re pretty… just…
147 00:14:23.140 ⇒ 00:14:25.320 Robert Tseng: I mean, they’re not really a tech company.
148 00:14:25.550 ⇒ 00:14:28.500 Robert Tseng: I mean, I would still like to get in the door, because I feel like
149 00:14:28.920 ⇒ 00:14:32.359 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’d like to work with them, but yeah, they’re pretty, like.
150 00:14:33.620 ⇒ 00:14:45.180 Robert Tseng: Well, yeah, there… I don’t… maybe I could call that a product analytics leader, but not really… definitely not a marketing person, and it’s not ops, it’s… it’s… they’re… they’re just…
151 00:14:45.250 ⇒ 00:14:57.989 Robert Tseng: Yeah, they’re trying to onboard more churches, into their products, and try to do more of a value-add service for churches, for church partners.
152 00:14:58.560 ⇒ 00:15:00.539 Robert Tseng: I… yeah, I…
153 00:15:01.360 ⇒ 00:15:09.800 Robert Tseng: they wanted to move the original scope I pitched them to Q3, which I felt was too long, so I was just trying to find another way in.
154 00:15:10.020 ⇒ 00:15:19.369 Robert Tseng: So I don’t… I’m not really kind of going off-script at this point, trying to just find a different way in, and I’m not really adhering to any of these.
155 00:15:20.060 ⇒ 00:15:25.070 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, okay. And then… Bamble, was that?
156 00:15:25.910 ⇒ 00:15:28.020 Robert Tseng: Amble is, yeah, VP of Growth.
157 00:15:28.540 ⇒ 00:15:31.619 Luke Scorziell: Oh, okay, so then we’re, yeah, fitting that pretty well then.
158 00:15:31.950 ⇒ 00:15:35.079 Luke Scorziell: I mean, it’s interesting, too, because that’s what,
159 00:15:35.540 ⇒ 00:15:38.290 Luke Scorziell: Jake, the Lair Lens guy,
160 00:15:39.330 ⇒ 00:15:45.979 Luke Scorziell: he’s also, like, growth marketing, go-to-market, and he just saw one of our posts on LinkedIn.
161 00:15:46.330 ⇒ 00:15:46.879 Luke Scorziell: So I think…
162 00:15:46.880 ⇒ 00:15:47.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
163 00:15:47.620 ⇒ 00:15:48.870 Luke Scorziell: It’d be interesting to kinda…
164 00:15:49.350 ⇒ 00:15:54.950 Luke Scorziell: That… I’m seeing, like, that’s an interesting signal. I think the other signal that I’m seeing is,
165 00:15:56.530 ⇒ 00:15:59.250 Luke Scorziell: Like, the knowledge base thing kind of landing.
166 00:15:59.410 ⇒ 00:16:04.949 Luke Scorziell: I don’t know if that’s just clicking with me, but I think… Let’s see what we had…
167 00:16:05.440 ⇒ 00:16:08.379 Luke Scorziell: Like, at the core, that’s what Jake was interested in.
168 00:16:08.690 ⇒ 00:16:12.310 Luke Scorziell: at Layer Lens was just having, like.
169 00:16:12.650 ⇒ 00:16:19.220 Luke Scorziell: Like, I just… whatever the post was that I had was just the ICP system that you’d built out, and then I just copy-pasted a list of
170 00:16:19.570 ⇒ 00:16:24.409 Luke Scorziell: like, leads from LinkedIn. I think it was the profile viewers, and then it helped me sort through them.
171 00:16:25.480 ⇒ 00:16:29.080 Luke Scorziell: And then similarly, like, in writing the agency white paper.
172 00:16:30.050 ⇒ 00:16:32.519 Luke Scorziell: like, I think I’m noticing the same thing of, like.
173 00:16:32.700 ⇒ 00:16:40.120 Luke Scorziell: It’s just the knowledge base, like, having a knowledge base built out that you can automatically upload, like, transcripts to from client calls.
174 00:16:42.310 ⇒ 00:16:47.310 Luke Scorziell: You can have, like, marketing plans already made and ready to go.
175 00:16:47.900 ⇒ 00:16:51.020 Luke Scorziell: Like, the different strategies that you could use, like.
176 00:16:51.150 ⇒ 00:16:55.700 Luke Scorziell: Even with going back to,
177 00:16:56.320 ⇒ 00:16:58.860 Luke Scorziell: the CMO… what was his name again?
178 00:17:00.000 ⇒ 00:17:03.600 Luke Scorziell: I’m spacing on the… But…
179 00:17:03.600 ⇒ 00:17:04.730 Robert Tseng: Oh, the Sam Ashkai?
180 00:17:04.730 ⇒ 00:17:07.150 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, same Ash, like, going back to that, it was like…
181 00:17:07.359 ⇒ 00:17:17.069 Luke Scorziell: having a knowledge base that you can query to help, like, your customer service reps and sales reps be able to sell better. So it seems like that…
182 00:17:17.950 ⇒ 00:17:19.069 Luke Scorziell: Bengal.
183 00:17:20.640 ⇒ 00:17:21.910 Luke Scorziell: That’s coming up.
184 00:17:22.490 ⇒ 00:17:24.699 Luke Scorziell: A good amount.
185 00:17:25.079 ⇒ 00:17:29.420 Luke Scorziell: So… I don’t know if that’s, like, a good entry point for a lot of companies.
186 00:17:29.620 ⇒ 00:17:32.559 Luke Scorziell: And something we could start talking about more on the AI side?
187 00:17:33.650 ⇒ 00:17:51.209 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think so. I mean, especially with the work that we’re doing for Lilo, I think that’s… that’s, I think that’s… that makes sense. So, why don’t we just strike out some of the stuff here? Like, I don’t think we need to go after 5. I think this one, dead. Like, we lost 2 deals at this stage. This is ReadMe didn’t sign, because they wanted…
188 00:17:51.390 ⇒ 00:17:56.130 Robert Tseng: didn’t want to pay more than 5K a month. It just… I don’t know, I just… I don’t… at this…
189 00:17:57.020 ⇒ 00:18:01.140 Robert Tseng: I mean, I think default is not really, like, a true…
190 00:18:01.510 ⇒ 00:18:06.150 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’ve said this before, but, like, Series A companies are so unstable. They’re…
191 00:18:06.180 ⇒ 00:18:24.769 Robert Tseng: either just, like, riding… they just raised a fresh round, and they’re ready to, like, invest, or they’re just super cheap, and, like, they’re… they’ve been in Series A for, like, more than 2 years, and they’re about to die as a company. So, I think that’s README. I think Hedra didn’t expand with us either. I think they’re also just kind of…
192 00:18:25.370 ⇒ 00:18:32.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it just… it just doesn’t work. It doesn’t… I don’t think it works out. Even with default, I feel like that’s an at-risk client, because…
193 00:18:32.640 ⇒ 00:18:34.040 Luke Scorziell: We’ve been…
194 00:18:34.660 ⇒ 00:18:53.549 Robert Tseng: slowly doing analytics work for them, like, so slow for, like, 3 months, and they’ve literally put out nothing. So, like, I… their product development is pretty slow. So, yeah, I just… I don’t want to go after these people. Like, it’s not worth it. They’re… they’re too unstable.
195 00:18:54.370 ⇒ 00:19:03.000 Robert Tseng: Enterprise Martech Leader, this was, I was thinking, like, SoundCloud. I mean, it’s possible we’ll go after them through a partner, but we’re not going to be able to do direct sales to them.
196 00:19:03.100 ⇒ 00:19:17.090 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, we have this Moengage partnership that we’re, like, trialing. We’ll see, like, they are selling to these people. I want them to share their book of business with us, but we haven’t really gotten to that point yet. We’re not really…
197 00:19:17.260 ⇒ 00:19:26.310 Robert Tseng: do anything with them until, like, towards the end of the month, probably after the Mixed panel thing. So, I feel like this can be deferred as well.
198 00:19:26.720 ⇒ 00:19:27.350 Luke Scorziell: Cam.
199 00:19:28.900 ⇒ 00:19:36.500 Robert Tseng: Home Services Coast, like, I don’t know if we ever did a content campaign against them, I think not, so I’d probably just move that one.
200 00:19:36.720 ⇒ 00:19:45.349 Robert Tseng: VP of Ops at mid-sized insurance companies, like, that is… we are going after them right now. I mean, it’s just gonna be slow, because I don’t think we have…
201 00:19:45.790 ⇒ 00:19:53.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we’re just not really in this space, so,
202 00:19:53.320 ⇒ 00:19:59.129 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m gonna let this… this campaign play out, but I don’t think I’m gonna run with it for,
203 00:19:59.440 ⇒ 00:20:00.600 Robert Tseng: for contextual.
204 00:20:01.550 ⇒ 00:20:03.410 Robert Tseng: I, I, yeah, I think…
205 00:20:03.850 ⇒ 00:20:20.979 Robert Tseng: insurance, legal, ed, tech, like, these types of verticals that we’re not in yet, I don’t think they should be an ICP, because, like, we’re just testing it out. We can run the campaigns, but I wouldn’t really elevate them to ICP status, because we don’t really have
206 00:20:21.460 ⇒ 00:20:26.419 Robert Tseng: We don’t really have anything going for us there. So I probably would just remove that as well.
207 00:20:26.790 ⇒ 00:20:34.479 Robert Tseng: Product analytics leaders, I don’t really know what that means, so…
208 00:20:34.850 ⇒ 00:20:39.249 Luke Scorziell: I think it was just connected with… because I was experimenting with using this database, and I…
209 00:20:40.020 ⇒ 00:20:42.410 Luke Scorziell: For, like, campaigns that they’re running.
210 00:20:43.160 ⇒ 00:20:43.800 Robert Tseng: Okay.
211 00:20:44.260 ⇒ 00:20:45.870 Luke Scorziell: Oh, I can trash that one.
212 00:20:46.170 ⇒ 00:20:58.539 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so it seems like we have one here, and I mean, I will run the insurance one through, and we’ll see. I want to pivot and do the legal and agent, and then you’re making a bet on agencies. Like, I think…
213 00:20:58.750 ⇒ 00:21:06.809 Robert Tseng: that could end up being the three that we’d go after, but yeah, I think… I mean, that’s… that’s how I feel like we could cut down this list.
214 00:21:08.240 ⇒ 00:21:14.390 Luke Scorziell: And what was the… I don’t have too much context on,
215 00:21:17.660 ⇒ 00:21:25.670 Luke Scorziell: So he said, read me default, and he draw… I mean, I mean, I know default well enough because we use them, but,
216 00:21:26.070 ⇒ 00:21:31.930 Luke Scorziell: they were all, like, the SaaS-type clients, maybe, that we were doing data work for?
217 00:21:33.210 ⇒ 00:21:34.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
218 00:21:35.440 ⇒ 00:21:36.089 Luke Scorziell: Oh, yeah.
219 00:21:43.280 ⇒ 00:21:43.746 Luke Scorziell: Oh, my
220 00:21:45.360 ⇒ 00:21:52.609 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I think with the home services companies, too, we didn’t really launch anything. My gut is that those aren’t really people that we would find on
221 00:21:52.740 ⇒ 00:21:53.870 Luke Scorziell: LinkedIn.
222 00:21:54.020 ⇒ 00:21:56.180 Luke Scorziell: Yeah. I think with that.
223 00:21:56.180 ⇒ 00:22:00.059 Robert Tseng: I also don’t think we’re finding the right people on LinkedIn for this either, so…
224 00:22:00.770 ⇒ 00:22:02.200 Luke Scorziell: For the insurance one?
225 00:22:02.510 ⇒ 00:22:03.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
226 00:22:07.020 ⇒ 00:22:09.200 Robert Tseng: I just don’t think these people are active on LinkedIn.
227 00:22:12.400 ⇒ 00:22:18.039 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, well, I… so what would you think, then, if we switched into doing, like, another platform, or…
228 00:22:18.930 ⇒ 00:22:30.529 Robert Tseng: No, we just gotta go email. Like, yeah, email, email, cold calls, like, I… yeah, we gotta… I think we have… if we wanna actually seriously reach those people, we have… we have to be using… using those channels.
229 00:22:31.400 ⇒ 00:22:32.780 Luke Scorziell: Yeah,
230 00:22:50.090 ⇒ 00:22:57.850 Luke Scorziell: Well, let me see, I can just toss the ones that were… I can make a quick tag, so we can, like, do active or archived.
231 00:23:00.030 ⇒ 00:23:01.099 Luke Scorziell: So I know.
232 00:23:36.820 ⇒ 00:23:50.190 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I mean, I think for, like, the… to share out with the team, like, I’d probably have you read it out. You’d probably just do a deeper dive into, like, what we just covered. Like, I’m maybe, like, saying… I’m just kind of broadly talking about it, but, like.
233 00:23:51.340 ⇒ 00:23:57.790 Robert Tseng: what did we learn about this one? And, like, what’s going well about it? Like, how are we refining this for the next… for the next…
234 00:23:58.430 ⇒ 00:23:59.270 Robert Tseng: Next.
235 00:24:00.120 ⇒ 00:24:02.529 Robert Tseng: Month, or whatever time period.
236 00:24:02.860 ⇒ 00:24:06.819 Robert Tseng: what did, like, what looked good but failed? And, like.
237 00:24:06.940 ⇒ 00:24:16.219 Robert Tseng: then we can talk about what we’re learning from these things. I think you can take my opinions as, like, a starting point, but I think you should… you should know, like, why…
238 00:24:16.610 ⇒ 00:24:21.029 Robert Tseng: again, I… I mean, you should, you should, in the back of your mind, understand, like.
239 00:24:21.190 ⇒ 00:24:29.369 Robert Tseng: what we’ve tried for these ICPs, what has worked, what hasn’t worked, like, and be able to bring that to the team. I’m sure nobody, like.
240 00:24:29.950 ⇒ 00:24:37.540 Robert Tseng: other than me and Uten, like, nobody else on the go-to-market team thinks about this, so, it’s less… this exercise is less for
241 00:24:37.650 ⇒ 00:24:43.340 Robert Tseng: I mean, ideally, you would teach me and UTAM some things, but I don’t really know if… yet, unless…
242 00:24:43.650 ⇒ 00:24:49.859 Robert Tseng: I mean, I think it’s more, like, just to… you’re more, like, teaching the team.
243 00:24:49.860 ⇒ 00:24:52.550 Luke Scorziell: Not just the go-to-market team, but also Brainforge.
244 00:24:52.690 ⇒ 00:24:54.000 Robert Tseng: Great forge overall.
245 00:24:54.410 ⇒ 00:24:56.589 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, okay, I mean, I couldn’t,
246 00:24:58.990 ⇒ 00:25:04.750 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, I can dive in with a lot of the stuff. I think that, like, the…
247 00:25:05.930 ⇒ 00:25:10.230 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, focusing more on the revenue-facing departments, I think is something
248 00:25:11.150 ⇒ 00:25:17.080 Luke Scorziell: But then, yeah, I mean, I can dive in. I think I still haven’t done a lot of digging on, like, the data and operations,
249 00:25:17.560 ⇒ 00:25:20.910 Luke Scorziell: Work that we’ve been doing, just focusing more on getting the content out.
250 00:25:21.250 ⇒ 00:25:23.840 Luke Scorziell: And I’m talking with some of the partners.
251 00:25:25.350 ⇒ 00:25:26.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
252 00:25:26.610 ⇒ 00:25:35.770 Robert Tseng: I view this as, like, you know, you’re taking a lot of swings, and it’s good that you’re taking bets, and you’re going after it. It’s more of a sharpening of the axe exercise, where, like.
253 00:25:36.040 ⇒ 00:25:43.140 Robert Tseng: You gotta, like, you’re kind of refining your own taste for, like, what… what actually… what works, like,
254 00:25:43.700 ⇒ 00:25:57.159 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I think that this is… we just need to… we need to calibrate on some regular basis. I think we said once a month, but it could probably be, like, every other week, but for now, we haven’t done it yet since you started, so I guess it’s…
255 00:25:59.390 ⇒ 00:26:04.230 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, no, I can… I’ve added that on the… Good.
256 00:26:04.510 ⇒ 00:26:10.110 Luke Scorziell: Not regular… regularity. Just regular… regularly doing them. And then…
257 00:26:10.380 ⇒ 00:26:14.569 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, I feel like an area, too, that I’m noticing, like, I want to grow in,
258 00:26:14.700 ⇒ 00:26:18.299 Luke Scorziell: It’s just… Being able to kind of communicate directly.
259 00:26:18.850 ⇒ 00:26:25.310 Luke Scorziell: with, like, the data, like, not just gut feelings, but I guess data that we’re working with. So, like, I think that’s where…
260 00:26:25.520 ⇒ 00:26:27.019 Luke Scorziell: Like, I was thinking about…
261 00:26:27.620 ⇒ 00:26:32.549 Luke Scorziell: Just, like, the… looking at, like, the different link clicks that we’ve had by asset, so, like.
262 00:26:33.370 ⇒ 00:26:45.780 Luke Scorziell: which campaigns are kind of… like, I think the insurance one has been interesting. It’s probably had… I mean, it’s not a ton, but 4 link clicks compared to… or 5 total, I guess, compared to,
263 00:26:46.370 ⇒ 00:26:49.989 Luke Scorziell: Like, the attribution checklist, we had 3, DB2, we’ve had 2.
264 00:26:51.020 ⇒ 00:26:55.619 Luke Scorziell: Or 4 total, bedged activation we had.
265 00:26:55.740 ⇒ 00:27:02.080 Luke Scorziell: 3, so I don’t know. To me, that’s interesting data. And then another kind of thing that I’m wondering is, like.
266 00:27:02.350 ⇒ 00:27:07.720 Luke Scorziell: If… if we’re… Like, when we put email gating on,
267 00:27:08.510 ⇒ 00:27:15.859 Luke Scorziell: like, I feel like it discourages people a little bit from just… from downloading or doing whatever, versus if we just are able to have,
268 00:27:17.750 ⇒ 00:27:20.959 Luke Scorziell: like, the link clicks. So I think that, I guess,
269 00:27:21.190 ⇒ 00:27:25.119 Luke Scorziell: Ryan is tracking through Ordinal, like, just generally people who click.
270 00:27:25.720 ⇒ 00:27:28.590 Luke Scorziell: But that’s interesting data for me, because it kind of shows, like.
271 00:27:29.260 ⇒ 00:27:33.229 Luke Scorziell: Who’s actually clicking into what, and what… why?
272 00:27:33.690 ⇒ 00:27:37.130 Luke Scorziell: like, which ones are interesting. So, because from the surface.
273 00:27:37.590 ⇒ 00:27:43.540 Luke Scorziell: the… like, just doing a review, the attribution health… Or the edges activation.
274 00:27:43.830 ⇒ 00:27:45.579 Luke Scorziell: An insurance one.
275 00:27:46.170 ⇒ 00:27:52.710 Luke Scorziell: They don’t look, like, super sexy, the posts, I guess, in terms of, like, engagement and comments.
276 00:27:52.880 ⇒ 00:28:03.059 Luke Scorziell: But then, obviously, like, we just land… you just landed the deal with MinuteMD doing the edged activation.
277 00:28:03.210 ⇒ 00:28:09.140 Luke Scorziell: And then it… Like, I don’t know, I feel like just expanding in the insurance network would be…
278 00:28:09.320 ⇒ 00:28:11.010 Luke Scorziell: Like, it’s gonna take a few…
279 00:28:11.280 ⇒ 00:28:13.369 Luke Scorziell: maybe, like, a week or two, but I, like…
280 00:28:15.000 ⇒ 00:28:20.100 Luke Scorziell: Like, if people are already clicking on that, and then there’s, like, just very clear pain points that we’re solving.
281 00:28:20.460 ⇒ 00:28:29.320 Luke Scorziell: and, like, I think as we’re talking more about just documentation, automation, like, I’m seeing… more…
282 00:28:30.210 ⇒ 00:28:32.849 Luke Scorziell: more of the content that I’m seeing people put out.
283 00:28:33.030 ⇒ 00:28:35.770 Luke Scorziell: It is kind of along those same lines of…
284 00:28:36.000 ⇒ 00:28:39.139 Luke Scorziell: How are you, like, trimming down manual workflows?
285 00:28:39.250 ⇒ 00:28:46.380 Luke Scorziell: To speed up, like, or to give people more time to either focus on relationships or on,
286 00:28:46.880 ⇒ 00:28:53.230 Luke Scorziell: like, strategy and… and, like, bigger picture things. So even one of the… a couple of the comments that we replied to.
287 00:28:53.650 ⇒ 00:28:59.799 Luke Scorziell: We’re along those lines of, like, even just, like, it’s, like, dehumanizing to have people in jobs that are, like.
288 00:29:00.400 ⇒ 00:29:05.139 Luke Scorziell: copy-pasting information from one document to the other. So I think, like.
289 00:29:05.780 ⇒ 00:29:10.480 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, on the, like, I’m seeing, I think, like, the AI knowledge, like, the knowledge base
290 00:29:10.890 ⇒ 00:29:15.120 Luke Scorziell: It’s interesting, because it, like, very clearly saves people time.
291 00:29:15.300 ⇒ 00:29:22.329 Luke Scorziell: And it’s easy to, like, position that as, like, you’re wasting your time if your whole organization is using, like.
292 00:29:22.500 ⇒ 00:29:28.900 Luke Scorziell: ChatGPT or Copilot, like, it’s… You’re probably getting a negative return on investment, versus if you had, like, a…
293 00:29:29.010 ⇒ 00:29:31.180 Luke Scorziell: A knowledge base with actual, like.
294 00:29:31.850 ⇒ 00:29:36.329 Luke Scorziell: Indexed, queriable, and then, like, shareable documents.
295 00:29:36.530 ⇒ 00:29:39.859 Luke Scorziell: So that’s one, and then I think, like, the workflow automation
296 00:29:40.260 ⇒ 00:29:44.850 Luke Scorziell: is… is the other one that I’m noticing of, like, If we can…
297 00:29:46.570 ⇒ 00:29:51.529 Luke Scorziell: If we can take tasks, like with the agency thing, it’s doing manual reporting.
298 00:29:51.820 ⇒ 00:29:54.870 Luke Scorziell: That, if you’re spending, like, 15 hours pulling numbers.
299 00:29:55.610 ⇒ 00:29:57.970 Luke Scorziell: And then, obviously, like, with the insurance, it’s…
300 00:29:58.190 ⇒ 00:30:01.369 Luke Scorziell: If you’re doing a risk profile that takes you 20 hours.
301 00:30:01.510 ⇒ 00:30:06.430 Luke Scorziell: So yeah, I don’t know, I guess for me, those are the two services that are starting to stand out.
302 00:30:06.650 ⇒ 00:30:14.220 Luke Scorziell: And then I’m just wondering, like, maybe you could then help me tie those into…
303 00:30:14.580 ⇒ 00:30:18.210 Luke Scorziell: Like, who… who might be the best leveraged people, too.
304 00:30:18.840 ⇒ 00:30:23.040 Luke Scorziell: Go to market with that, too. I mean, I think the agency is…
305 00:30:23.040 ⇒ 00:30:23.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
306 00:30:23.410 ⇒ 00:30:25.379 Luke Scorziell: And then, if, like, legal makes sense.
307 00:30:25.630 ⇒ 00:30:29.239 Luke Scorziell: Also, on, like, more of a documentation, like, we’re saving you time.
308 00:30:29.720 ⇒ 00:30:30.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
309 00:30:32.070 ⇒ 00:30:35.530 Luke Scorziell: So, yeah, I think those are the two, like, messaging pillars that I’m…
310 00:30:36.820 ⇒ 00:30:42.890 Luke Scorziell: Like, thinking more about and starting to want to gear probably more content toward.
311 00:30:43.880 ⇒ 00:30:48.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that sounds… that sounds… that sounds good. Yeah, just let me… let me know how I can help.
312 00:30:49.930 ⇒ 00:30:55.620 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, I can just start, like, kind of in the other theory, I guess, that I’m thinking about, too,
313 00:30:57.200 ⇒ 00:30:59.810 Luke Scorziell: It’s like, if we put out content campaigns.
314 00:31:00.310 ⇒ 00:31:06.050 Luke Scorziell: Or do content, and then, I mean, I think we’ve already talked about this, but if I, like, kind of run the content.
315 00:31:06.330 ⇒ 00:31:11.960 Luke Scorziell: See, like, what’s clicking and what’s not clicking, and then, like, either a couple… like, a day or two later, then it’s, like.
316 00:31:12.210 ⇒ 00:31:13.880 Luke Scorziell: You’re running a campaign.
317 00:31:14.070 ⇒ 00:31:20.620 Luke Scorziell: like that. I don’t know, I think that’s a good cadence, or whoever, I guess, is gonna do sales, because then they can kind of, like, test the waters.
318 00:31:21.140 ⇒ 00:31:24.360 Luke Scorziell: I can plan, like, the services.
319 00:31:24.740 ⇒ 00:31:27.389 Luke Scorziell: And what I’m seeing is, like, the most…
320 00:31:29.230 ⇒ 00:31:34.339 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, just kind of directionally where we can go, launch the content, and then launch the campaign.
321 00:31:35.210 ⇒ 00:31:40.920 Luke Scorziell: And then if the content flops, then we can, you know, shift. But
322 00:31:41.770 ⇒ 00:31:45.210 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, so I don’t know, I guess, like, maybe it gives you a little bit of insight into how I’m.
323 00:31:45.210 ⇒ 00:31:49.099 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that makes sense. I like that. I like that sequencing. That helps.
324 00:31:52.710 ⇒ 00:32:01.180 Luke Scorziell: So yeah, I guess I’ve been thinking about it then, like, less as, like, specific, like, who do we go to at this particular company, and more of, like.
325 00:32:01.340 ⇒ 00:32:03.430 Luke Scorziell: What are the pain points that we can…
326 00:32:03.560 ⇒ 00:32:06.980 Luke Scorziell: Solve overall, and how do we talk about those?
327 00:32:07.870 ⇒ 00:32:12.080 Luke Scorziell: to… Or how do we tailor how we talk about that to specific people?
328 00:32:12.940 ⇒ 00:32:14.250 Luke Scorziell: specific companies.
329 00:32:14.740 ⇒ 00:32:15.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
330 00:32:15.780 ⇒ 00:32:16.370 Luke Scorziell: So…
331 00:32:20.140 ⇒ 00:32:20.950 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
332 00:32:24.320 ⇒ 00:32:26.079 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that makes sense. I think.
333 00:32:26.090 ⇒ 00:32:29.309 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, ICP is such a, like, a…
334 00:32:29.310 ⇒ 00:32:30.249 Robert Tseng: It’s not like…
335 00:32:31.010 ⇒ 00:32:35.399 Robert Tseng: the only way… I mean, I think it needs to be adapted to every organization. I think there’s, like…
336 00:32:37.110 ⇒ 00:32:38.590 Robert Tseng: Well, I think…
337 00:32:40.440 ⇒ 00:32:50.560 Robert Tseng: defining it in such a way where there’s still a qualification criteria that I can, like, put into an agent to help qualify accounts. Like, that will help Ryan to be able to filter out just, like.
338 00:32:50.690 ⇒ 00:32:51.470 Robert Tseng: just…
339 00:32:51.650 ⇒ 00:32:57.509 Robert Tseng: when he’s… if he’s… when he’s building lists to just, like, disqualify things, I just shouldn’t… we shouldn’t be talking to you, because, like.
340 00:32:58.010 ⇒ 00:33:06.110 Robert Tseng: We may not know exactly who the set of accounts are, but, like, we… yeah, we should be able to disqualify a bunch.
341 00:33:06.210 ⇒ 00:33:14.989 Robert Tseng: And then, like, your perspective is more, like, where… like, yeah, like, you’re talking… speaking to the pain points, and there… there could be, which I think is…
342 00:33:15.630 ⇒ 00:33:24.809 Robert Tseng: Common that, like, are… the pain points that we can help with are not industry-specific. I…
343 00:33:25.810 ⇒ 00:33:29.459 Robert Tseng: I think it’s more about speaking to somebody’s…
344 00:33:31.650 ⇒ 00:33:35.299 Robert Tseng: Typically, their role within an organization, like.
345 00:33:35.470 ⇒ 00:33:37.110 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if there’s a lot of…
346 00:33:37.420 ⇒ 00:33:49.089 Robert Tseng: if they’re close to revenue, they haven’t to process a lot of information, like, they’re doing lead generation and, like, booking appointments themselves, like, there’s a whole set of, like, tooling that basically we build for ourselves that’s able to help them.
347 00:33:49.740 ⇒ 00:33:59.769 Robert Tseng: I think that’s really the agency prototype. But then there’s also, yeah, just organizations that, like, need to have a good handle of all of their
348 00:34:01.060 ⇒ 00:34:09.359 Robert Tseng: whether we call it knowledge files, data sources, like, context graphs, like, I mean, the terminology changes all the time, but it’s… it’s really just, like.
349 00:34:10.409 ⇒ 00:34:16.840 Robert Tseng: Being able to… Yeah, get all your… get all your data in one place, be able to, like.
350 00:34:17.100 ⇒ 00:34:27.410 Robert Tseng: search it, query from it, and be able to build reporting from it. Like, that… those are… that’s a universal need that every organization needs at scale. So,
351 00:34:29.540 ⇒ 00:34:35.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I… I guess, like, my point is that…
352 00:34:36.420 ⇒ 00:34:51.790 Robert Tseng: when we do these ICP conversations, like, I don’t… it’s not really just about filling out this, like, Notion thing or whatever, like, I think that’s just one lens of looking at it. I still think it’s important, because it’s, like, what we need to be able to turn into
353 00:34:52.060 ⇒ 00:35:01.100 Robert Tseng: qualification framework, so that you can programmatically, like, exclude… include, like, yeah, to… for qualification, this is important for qualification, but then…
354 00:35:01.360 ⇒ 00:35:19.500 Robert Tseng: beyond, like, what scoring and deals… what deal scoring and qualification doesn’t tell you is it doesn’t really tell you what the pain is, and so there’s still that narrative piece to it that, like, yeah, I mean, you’re… what you’re calling, like, messaging pillars or whatever, like, I think that’s… that is… that is part of it as well, so…
355 00:35:19.500 ⇒ 00:35:33.850 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and so, I mean, I don’t want you to feel like you’re restricted by just this definition of, like, what an ICP is. Like, I think it’s… my point is, like, I’m trying to break that barrier. Like, it’s not just…
356 00:35:34.010 ⇒ 00:35:38.940 Robert Tseng: This thing that, like, we… we… we… I think…
357 00:35:41.330 ⇒ 00:35:47.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and so I think you need to be able to, like, take… Take this, like.
358 00:35:49.620 ⇒ 00:35:57.800 Robert Tseng: industry standard protocol for how to, like, disseminate information about customers, but then make it more…
359 00:35:58.000 ⇒ 00:36:03.169 Robert Tseng: Like, applicable to, like, the people that you work with, like.
360 00:36:03.300 ⇒ 00:36:08.730 Robert Tseng: When you’re writing content, you’re not writing to an ICP, you’re writing to pain points specifically.
361 00:36:08.840 ⇒ 00:36:25.920 Robert Tseng: when you’re talking with Ryan about building lead lists, you’re not talking to him about pain points, you’re giving him the ICP qualification list, because he’s… he’s not really going to be thinking in narratives, he’s just going to be… it’s like, are they… are they X, Y, or Z? He’s just going to be, like, using AI tools to categorize things.
362 00:36:25.920 ⇒ 00:36:45.879 Robert Tseng: And then when you’re talking to me and Utam, then, like, you know, we care more… maybe we’re more, like, kind of end-to-end, wanting to know, like, well, how do we talk about this person specifically? And, like, if I were to go into a room full of people, how would I spot them? Like, that… we would care more about that. So I think they’re all just kind of repurposing the same…
363 00:36:45.970 ⇒ 00:36:49.270 Robert Tseng: kind of… Same, same thing.
364 00:36:49.940 ⇒ 00:36:50.580 Luke Scorziell: Yeah.
365 00:36:51.780 ⇒ 00:36:53.140 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, I…
366 00:36:53.250 ⇒ 00:37:04.980 Robert Tseng: if I… if this was, like, half… if my job was, like, doing this half the time, like, I would probably sit with this more and, like, try to build out a framework for myself to, like, try to under… to understand, like, what…
367 00:37:05.500 ⇒ 00:37:15.669 Robert Tseng: for each… what does this concept mean to each of the different people that are involved in making it happen? I think that’s really kind of, like, my…
368 00:37:15.850 ⇒ 00:37:22.739 Robert Tseng: perspective of how to… how to build this up. Like, we… and yeah, we do a version of this for, like, every client, like…
369 00:37:23.050 ⇒ 00:37:26.850 Robert Tseng: Yeah, cause, like.
370 00:37:27.870 ⇒ 00:37:33.679 Robert Tseng: I mean, I could share, like, a lot of client stories about, like, why… how, like…
371 00:37:34.230 ⇒ 00:37:44.999 Robert Tseng: How we’re taking the same, like, concepts, but then going to different people within their organization, calling it slightly different things in a way that meets them where they’re at.
372 00:37:45.950 ⇒ 00:38:03.640 Robert Tseng: we need to, like, get them all to work together to make it actually happen. Like, people say source of truth, but that means… like, what does that mean? Like, it means something different to everybody. So, yeah, I think that ICP is just, like, another one of those, like, universal jargons that’s thrown around in the sales world, but, like.
373 00:38:03.640 ⇒ 00:38:13.889 Robert Tseng: It means something different to every person that’s actually involved in making it work, and you have to, like, be able to… to, like, get the feedback that’s useful
374 00:38:14.010 ⇒ 00:38:17.470 Robert Tseng: For you, as you’re kind of, like, instrumenting it all together.
375 00:38:17.980 ⇒ 00:38:23.740 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, yeah, no, okay, this is helpful, because I think, yeah, in my mind, maybe it… I think it does…
376 00:38:24.020 ⇒ 00:38:27.380 Luke Scorziell: just me interpreting, like, okay, how do I speak to a…
377 00:38:27.690 ⇒ 00:38:33.650 Luke Scorziell: what even is a scale-up CMO, VP of growth? Like, I don’t know. To me, it feels like it’s, like, hard to…
378 00:38:33.970 ⇒ 00:38:35.799 Luke Scorziell: Doesn’t really compute as well as, like.
379 00:38:35.940 ⇒ 00:38:37.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah. It’s like, I feel like if…
380 00:38:38.400 ⇒ 00:38:40.320 Luke Scorziell: The pain point is, like.
381 00:38:40.630 ⇒ 00:38:57.449 Luke Scorziell: I want to be able to instantly have reporting available to me, then… then in my mind, it’s okay, well, who are the people that struggle with that within an organization? And then it’s like, oh, I guess it could be, like, the CMO, but I guess it could also… yeah, and then it could also be the VP of Growth.
382 00:38:57.610 ⇒ 00:38:59.129 Luke Scorziell: It could also be, like, the…
383 00:38:59.270 ⇒ 00:39:06.809 Luke Scorziell: you know, person that’s, like, uploading PDFs onto ChatGPT to try to, like, do all this together, and then, like.
384 00:39:06.940 ⇒ 00:39:10.199 Luke Scorziell: And then you start speaking to that.
385 00:39:10.700 ⇒ 00:39:17.920 Luke Scorziell: And then… and yeah, and then once I can kind of identify, oh, these are the people within…
386 00:39:18.380 ⇒ 00:39:22.200 Luke Scorziell: This segment that are dealing with this, then we can kind of go after that.
387 00:39:22.610 ⇒ 00:39:27.149 Luke Scorziell: Specifically, like, kind of like what you were saying with the edge activation, it’s like.
388 00:39:27.680 ⇒ 00:39:34.339 Luke Scorziell: Generally, we know, yeah, it’s nice to have accurate reporting, because then you have better campaigns, and you’re able to make better decisions.
389 00:39:34.570 ⇒ 00:39:40.019 Luke Scorziell: Specifically, though, now, if we’re gonna go after this list of customers of,
390 00:39:40.490 ⇒ 00:39:42.450 Luke Scorziell: The company that you found is, like.
391 00:39:43.950 ⇒ 00:39:49.679 Luke Scorziell: Well, you already have those pain points, you already know that you have those pain points, but now, more specifically, we can speak to…
392 00:39:49.850 ⇒ 00:39:57.859 Luke Scorziell: you need a custom solution, not just, like, an all-in-one software that someone built for you. So I guess that’s how I got it in mind. It’s kind of like, we start with, like, the…
393 00:39:58.130 ⇒ 00:40:01.290 Luke Scorziell: broad, and like, right now, on the insurance side, I feel like
394 00:40:03.460 ⇒ 00:40:07.089 Luke Scorziell: We’ve identified a problem that we know is there. Yeah.
395 00:40:07.230 ⇒ 00:40:09.539 Luke Scorziell: Don’t know who, specifically.
396 00:40:09.750 ⇒ 00:40:12.940 Luke Scorziell: yet is dealing with that problem.
397 00:40:13.120 ⇒ 00:40:15.270 Luke Scorziell: And so, for me, that’s kind of, like.
398 00:40:15.640 ⇒ 00:40:23.200 Luke Scorziell: like, I’d be curious to… that’s what I was saying yesterday about, like, with Robert Kuhn’s network of just, like, poking around, like, seeing…
399 00:40:23.200 ⇒ 00:40:23.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
400 00:40:23.960 ⇒ 00:40:30.470 Luke Scorziell: Like, trying to get on the phone, even just getting on the phone with, like, one person in insurance, and being like, who’s the person that deals with
401 00:40:30.650 ⇒ 00:40:31.190 Luke Scorziell: like…
402 00:40:31.190 ⇒ 00:40:31.850 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
403 00:40:32.260 ⇒ 00:40:36.179 Luke Scorziell: But who’s doing all this stuff? Like, that would be interesting to me, because then it’s like.
404 00:40:36.320 ⇒ 00:40:38.130 Luke Scorziell: Okay, now I can take it from…
405 00:40:38.560 ⇒ 00:40:41.430 Luke Scorziell: You’re spending 20 hours a week doing this, too.
406 00:40:42.240 ⇒ 00:40:44.930 Luke Scorziell: Like, more specifically, like.
407 00:40:45.520 ⇒ 00:40:54.880 Luke Scorziell: like, I don’t… we don’t know what that is yet, because we haven’t gotten that permission, but, that’s kind of how, like, I’ve been thinking about it, is, like, more of, like.
408 00:40:55.410 ⇒ 00:40:57.949 Luke Scorziell: Here are the big things that people are struggling with.
409 00:40:58.180 ⇒ 00:41:03.050 Luke Scorziell: Well, like you said, like, everyone of our clients, in a different way, is struggling with the same thing.
410 00:41:03.640 ⇒ 00:41:04.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
411 00:41:04.680 ⇒ 00:41:10.340 Luke Scorziell: And then how do we tailor that then to speak to specific, audiences? So I think it’s probably the same
412 00:41:11.360 ⇒ 00:41:13.549 Luke Scorziell: Or just, yeah, it’s like CO2.
413 00:41:13.690 ⇒ 00:41:15.470 Luke Scorziell: Different ways of coming at it, so…
414 00:41:16.000 ⇒ 00:41:21.029 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I agree. I think, I think you get it. Yeah, so anyway, like, I guess…
415 00:41:21.360 ⇒ 00:41:26.439 Robert Tseng: I’m not gonna touch this ICP doc, I mean, you can turn it to whatever you want, or… yeah, I think…
416 00:41:27.130 ⇒ 00:41:34.310 Robert Tseng: if that helps you to… if there’s a better way to… or… I mean, I may cut back around to this, but it’s just… it’s not gonna… it’s not really top of mind for me, so…
417 00:41:34.440 ⇒ 00:41:48.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess however you want to synthesize that and present that to the company, I think it would be a good exercise for you, and then also, like, help other people to… to see… to see… to see what, like, how to develop this type of intuition as well.
418 00:41:48.840 ⇒ 00:41:49.860 Luke Scorziell: Cool, okay.
419 00:41:49.990 ⇒ 00:41:54.280 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, that’s helpful. So then maybe Friday, then, would be helpful to kind of present, like.
420 00:41:55.720 ⇒ 00:42:03.479 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, maybe just how I… because I think this… this… what I just explained to you is essentially the theory that is underlying all of the stuff that…
421 00:42:03.610 ⇒ 00:42:05.920 Luke Scorziell: I’m doing on, like, content, and…
422 00:42:06.590 ⇒ 00:42:10.120 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and if it makes sense to just do it in, like, the overall, like.
423 00:42:10.250 ⇒ 00:42:17.930 Robert Tseng: Brainforward share, I think just do it there instead of just doing it at the GTM end of week. I personally feel like you’ll get more engagement
424 00:42:18.280 ⇒ 00:42:19.690 Robert Tseng: From the Brainforce team.
425 00:42:20.150 ⇒ 00:42:23.609 Robert Tseng: Overall, as opposed to just sharing it with
426 00:42:23.930 ⇒ 00:42:28.179 Robert Tseng: Go-to-market team where nobody really says anything, generally speaking.
427 00:42:28.230 ⇒ 00:42:45.980 Robert Tseng: So, I don’t think anybody’s opinion, Ryan. Ryan, Hannah, and Rico have no opinions, so… I don’t feel like you’re gonna get, like, that great of a reception anyway. Like, you might as well just bring it to the whole company. And I think, they’re some of the more senior folks. I’m sure Greg would love to see how you think about it, and…
428 00:42:45.980 ⇒ 00:42:51.460 Robert Tseng: you know, I’m sure you’ve talked to enough people to know who you… who would probably appreciate that perspective.
429 00:42:51.920 ⇒ 00:42:53.420 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, okay.
430 00:42:53.420 ⇒ 00:42:53.970 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
431 00:42:54.220 ⇒ 00:42:59.469 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, that’s helpful. Yeah, I think, I think probably we’re coming to a better, cadence of,
432 00:42:59.770 ⇒ 00:43:01.519 Luke Scorziell: Cause, yeah, I think,
433 00:43:04.230 ⇒ 00:43:09.589 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, so it sounds like just me taking kind of ownership over, like, this is how I’m thinking about things, and…
434 00:43:09.780 ⇒ 00:43:22.689 Luke Scorziell: like, not necessarily that I’m… I need to take… or, like, your… your suggestions to me are more, like, suggestions and helpful, like, here’s a way that you could think about it, and then… Yeah.
435 00:43:23.490 ⇒ 00:43:27.090 Luke Scorziell: push back, or kind of give you, like, a, here’s how I’m thinking about it, and then we can kind of.
436 00:43:27.090 ⇒ 00:43:35.519 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally. Yeah, you don’t have to adopt, you know, unless I’m very opinionated about it, like, no, this is, like, just… often when we’re doing execution, then yeah, like, I think…
437 00:43:35.780 ⇒ 00:43:43.479 Robert Tseng: making a decision on process, who to staff, stuff like that, like, I think we have to just make a decision. I feel like my role at this point
438 00:43:44.200 ⇒ 00:43:48.950 Robert Tseng: I can still only make a limited number of decisions, but, like, I think…
439 00:43:49.480 ⇒ 00:43:58.540 Robert Tseng: I have to… I have to make decisions. Like, that’s… if I… if I drag my feet on a decision, nothing moves forward on… in the organization, so…
440 00:43:58.770 ⇒ 00:44:04.690 Robert Tseng: I feel like that’s… Utom and I, like, if we can only make 100 decisions a week, then…
441 00:44:04.810 ⇒ 00:44:15.429 Robert Tseng: we try to get other people to make decisions that we don’t really feel like we need to make anymore, but then we still have to make 100 decisions a week. Like, we cannot… we can’t not… we can’t just, like, sit there and…
442 00:44:15.430 ⇒ 00:44:26.060 Robert Tseng: and not make those decisions, so… and that may make people uncomfortable or whatever, but, like, we just… I think that’s kind of what keeps things moving, from my perspective, like…
443 00:44:26.150 ⇒ 00:44:31.290 Robert Tseng: I always try to pick, like, what’s the one metric that we need to move that, like, kind of…
444 00:44:32.570 ⇒ 00:44:44.629 Robert Tseng: and I… when I meet with Utah, I’m like, we have our exec chats or whatever, we kind of go through how many decisions did we make… did we make this week? Kind of like how for the go-to-market team is, like, how many meetings did we booked?
445 00:44:44.830 ⇒ 00:44:52.969 Robert Tseng: If our… if we’re making few decisions, that we’re dragging our feet on something, and, like, then we have to just kind of figure out why we’re so hesitant to make it.
446 00:44:53.290 ⇒ 00:44:54.490 Robert Tseng: Maybe it’s, like.
447 00:44:54.580 ⇒ 00:45:09.790 Robert Tseng: pricing, like, Utam feels uncomfortable with suggesting pricing. That’s why he wanted me to build a pricing agent, so that he could just feed his proposal into that, and then get… push it off to us, so they just, like, sign off on something. Then he’s comfortable in, like, kind of shooting… shooting it out.
448 00:45:09.810 ⇒ 00:45:29.359 Robert Tseng: Whereas, like, I drag my feet on other decisions, and, like, UTAM is much faster at making them, and we try to figure out how do we close that gap so we’re able to just make those decisions faster. It doesn’t… I don’t think they’re reckless, but we try to make it… but I don’t think that… most of the time, like, the slowing down of the decision-making
449 00:45:29.790 ⇒ 00:45:46.380 Robert Tseng: at least, like, operationally speaking, like, I don’t really think it’s because we’re being more thoughtful about it. I think we’re just, like, stuck because of something that’s in our head that’s, like, blocking us from moving forward. So, just try to root that out as quickly as possible, and then we can… we can move on with that.
450 00:45:47.260 ⇒ 00:45:56.860 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I guess that’s helpful context for me to know, too. Yeah, and similarly, you’re in a position where you’re making more decisions than the people that are under you as well, like.
451 00:45:56.860 ⇒ 00:46:16.740 Robert Tseng: So you kind of have to do your time as leverage in that way, where if you’re spending time doing their work, or, like, teaching them how to think, and that stops you from making decisions, then, like, you have to… you have to know when you’re crossing… crossing too much into that, and figure out how to protect your time to make decisions as well. Yeah, so…
452 00:46:17.030 ⇒ 00:46:21.199 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, yeah, I think, I’ve kind of just given Ryan, like.
453 00:46:22.390 ⇒ 00:46:29.239 Luke Scorziell: just, I’ll give you general ideas for content, and then figure it out. And then he typically comes up with good stuff. But.
454 00:46:29.240 ⇒ 00:46:29.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
455 00:46:29.960 ⇒ 00:46:37.519 Luke Scorziell: And then, yeah, I guess, kind of question, too, I know we only have 30 minutes scheduled, but, so I don’t know if you have anything else, but
456 00:46:38.280 ⇒ 00:46:38.990 Luke Scorziell: with…
457 00:46:38.990 ⇒ 00:46:40.099 Robert Tseng: I’m good, yeah.
458 00:46:40.360 ⇒ 00:46:46.610 Luke Scorziell: How are you thinking about the balance, I guess, right now, of, like, the responsibility shifts that we talked about?
459 00:46:46.830 ⇒ 00:46:56.689 Luke Scorziell: I guess, not last Friday, but the Friday before. Like, is that… yeah, I would just… I’d just be curious to kind of hear, like, an update on your end of,
460 00:46:56.920 ⇒ 00:46:57.639 Luke Scorziell: Oh my god, it’s.
461 00:46:59.210 ⇒ 00:47:16.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, basically, kind of running campaigns and, like, taking on more of… just working directly with Rico. I mean, the velocity is definitely slower than I want it to be, which is why I still feel, like, the hole, and I’m, like, telling the town, like, I want to fill it, so we’re interviewing for someone else to come do it.
462 00:47:17.040 ⇒ 00:47:21.080 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I mean, I think, like, I…
463 00:47:22.680 ⇒ 00:47:31.089 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I mean, that definitely is… that’s definitely important to me. I think I just don’t have… I don’t have more to give to it. I think,
464 00:47:31.820 ⇒ 00:47:33.489 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, I… I think…
465 00:47:34.590 ⇒ 00:47:41.480 Robert Tseng: I’ve been running Eden, and then now I’m trying to… I, you know, yesterday, I basically started to run Element, too, so, like.
466 00:47:41.500 ⇒ 00:47:51.649 Robert Tseng: and then we’re gonna do… we’re trying to sign a year-long renewal with them, I will be, like… and, yeah, anyway, I just… I feel like I’m… I’m gonna come up at my capacity, so…
467 00:47:51.650 ⇒ 00:48:01.539 Robert Tseng: I… I mean, yeah, so I… I just… I have to… I have to… I have to fill… fill it with someone. I don’t know who it is yet, so we’ll see, like, I’m… I’m… I view it less…
468 00:48:01.710 ⇒ 00:48:02.700 Robert Tseng: as, like.
469 00:48:03.290 ⇒ 00:48:09.559 Robert Tseng: I can’t really be so goal-oriented with the sales stuff. I kind of feel like I’m more just, like.
470 00:48:11.010 ⇒ 00:48:27.640 Robert Tseng: trying to commit to habits that I could do. Oh, two campaigns a week? I could do that. Like, that to me is not a goal. Like, I definitely want to… I don’t really… number of campaigns is not really a goal for me. It’s… it’s… it’s, like, meetings booked, like, revenue and pipeline, like, that stuff is, like, those are the true goals, but…
471 00:48:27.710 ⇒ 00:48:39.850 Robert Tseng: you know, if I… there’s a way for me to just, like, size it down and just make it part of, like, my routine, and then, like, that helps me to, like, just execute it without having to think too much about
472 00:48:40.780 ⇒ 00:48:54.450 Robert Tseng: without thinking too much about it. So, I feel like that’s how I’ve been… how I’ve absorbed, some of the sales stuff. Like, I’ve… I’m just telling myself it just has to be done, and I have to basically turn it into part of my routine.
473 00:48:55.790 ⇒ 00:49:02.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and… but yeah, that’s… that’s… that’s not, that’s not… it can’t be long-term. Like, I ha… I have to… I have to get somebody to do that.
474 00:49:03.490 ⇒ 00:49:04.740 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
475 00:49:06.530 ⇒ 00:49:09.800 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, and then I guess our… is there any way, like, just as…
476 00:49:10.700 ⇒ 00:49:16.950 Luke Scorziell: maybe you’re saying that I can, like, shift, or… I don’t know, like, just any insights that you’re saying on your end?
477 00:49:17.520 ⇒ 00:49:30.609 Robert Tseng: Well, I think on the partnership side, I think having you there, helping with… helping with them there is better. I mean, that’s part of why I was like, I don’t think we need… I don’t think we need Shakeshu in partnerships. I don’t feel like he’s doing anything to support
478 00:49:30.780 ⇒ 00:49:33.310 Robert Tseng: We’re gone. Life.
479 00:49:33.430 ⇒ 00:49:44.570 Robert Tseng: he hasn’t really done anything with the system that we build him, he’s also not really partner-facing, hasn’t hopped… taken zero initiative to talk to the partners, so… I mean, you feel like you enjoy the relationship building.
480 00:49:44.620 ⇒ 00:49:56.229 Robert Tseng: you know, I feel like we are… both Utam and I are comfortable with you kind of just jumping on a call and representing Brainforge in a way, so, like, at least doing that will help UTAM more, I think, than…
481 00:49:56.590 ⇒ 00:50:04.469 Robert Tseng: Than I think Shay Xi was. So, we’ll see, kind of. I don’t think we’ve really…
482 00:50:04.640 ⇒ 00:50:18.760 Robert Tseng: talked about, like, how to write that into your JD. We’ll just kind of see, like, this mixed panel thing, if you do end up going, see how that goes. But yeah, I don’t… I don’t really know yet. Like, I… with Kayla starting next week, like, we’re…
483 00:50:19.450 ⇒ 00:50:32.550 Robert Tseng: we’re trying to give her… she’s gonna take some scope on, brill… Brile is doing way better than we thought, so that’s why he… we’re trying to give him some scope. So I think things are kind of in flux, because there’s…
484 00:50:32.670 ⇒ 00:50:36.070 Robert Tseng: There’s two new people after you that are, like, kind of…
485 00:50:36.280 ⇒ 00:50:49.859 Robert Tseng: they… they’re telling us that they want to take on some stuff, too, so we’re kind of just shuffling things around until, we feel like the screw can take it on. So, I mean, if there’s anything specifically that you…
486 00:50:50.060 ⇒ 00:50:54.749 Robert Tseng: like, want to raise your hand for, then you kind of let us know, but otherwise, my…
487 00:50:55.450 ⇒ 00:51:08.950 Robert Tseng: kind of takeaways from our call a couple weeks ago was Luke wants to say no to these things, so I’m gonna take them off his plate, and I’m gonna try to either absorb it or spread it around, and if we can’t, then I need to bring on somebody else to do that. I think that’s…
488 00:51:08.950 ⇒ 00:51:19.019 Robert Tseng: that’s, like, the simple kind of breakdown of how I… how I’m handling it. I’m not, like, considering, oh, how do I go back and add this back to Luke’s scope later on? Like, I…
489 00:51:19.070 ⇒ 00:51:22.270 Robert Tseng: Don’t really think I have the… the…
490 00:51:23.170 ⇒ 00:51:27.590 Robert Tseng: the wherewithal to think about all those scenarios, like, I… it’s just…
491 00:51:27.810 ⇒ 00:51:32.770 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, it’s just yes or no, and we move on, like… Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we’ll see.
492 00:51:33.260 ⇒ 00:51:37.670 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, which I think, too, like, just maybe from my side, like, the…
493 00:51:38.650 ⇒ 00:51:41.359 Luke Scorziell: Like, I’ve definitely really been enjoying the content.
494 00:51:41.710 ⇒ 00:51:47.180 Luke Scorziell: stuff, and, like, getting to push that forward to the… and I feel like that works really well with the…
495 00:51:47.380 ⇒ 00:51:50.279 Luke Scorziell: Agents, or the partnership stuff.
496 00:51:50.280 ⇒ 00:51:50.760 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
497 00:51:50.760 ⇒ 00:51:57.870 Luke Scorziell: like, a lot of that stuff, for me, is just very natural to, like, connect with Tim, like, I’m excited, I’m talking with my other deck today.
498 00:51:58.210 ⇒ 00:51:58.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
499 00:52:01.700 ⇒ 00:52:09.280 Luke Scorziell: Omni again tomorrow about doing the Vegas event. Like, that… that to me, like, that stuff, I’m like, I’d, like, eat that up, like, I would… I’ll go and, like.
500 00:52:09.670 ⇒ 00:52:14.290 Luke Scorziell: have, like, like, you know, talk with all the mixed panel people at the event, like, in Austin.
501 00:52:14.290 ⇒ 00:52:33.839 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s why I feel you enjoy going to events. Like, this is what we need on the partner side, so we can’t just have somebody who just wants to sit behind a desk all the time. Like, you gotta go and actually just build relationships. We don’t really know. We just need them to be friendly with us and give us the right opportunities. Like, Utam is calling every Snowflake person he knows, and…
502 00:52:33.840 ⇒ 00:52:52.709 Robert Tseng: only one out of, like, 25 people we’ve talked to has been like, oh yeah, here, here’s, like, my account list. Here are all the people that I’m talking to. Help me, like, sell it to them. So, we’ll see where that goes, but I feel like it’s… that’s just, you know, we only get those opportunities if we kind of hit it off with the right people, so…
503 00:52:53.050 ⇒ 00:52:55.620 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I mean, that stuff’s, like, like, to me, I’m like.
504 00:52:57.660 ⇒ 00:53:06.409 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, like, I just… the relationship building, and even with Tam, like, we talked for, like, an hour, and I was, like, I can tell she just…
505 00:53:06.900 ⇒ 00:53:12.580 Luke Scorziell: I was like, oh, I know, like, we’re coming up on 30 minutes, like, you know, blah, she’s like, oh, yeah, I have, like, other work to do, but…
506 00:53:13.090 ⇒ 00:53:13.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
507 00:53:13.670 ⇒ 00:53:19.989 Luke Scorziell: talking, and like… so that’s the kind of stuff for me, and I feel like translates also to then when I’m working with, like, the team.
508 00:53:20.860 ⇒ 00:53:25.330 Luke Scorziell: like, relationally, I feel like I’m able to, like, help guide them and push them along.
509 00:53:25.430 ⇒ 00:53:26.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
510 00:53:27.120 ⇒ 00:53:38.320 Luke Scorziell: And then, like, yeah, I think the sales stuff, for me, probably is just, like, with the Stanford campaign today, I just, yeah, also sat down and was like, I’m just gonna do this because I know that it needs to be done, like, it’s not…
511 00:53:38.320 ⇒ 00:53:44.210 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s… it’s rough. It’s very operational and, like, whatever, but… so, I need… I’m trying to get somebody who’s just…
512 00:53:44.430 ⇒ 00:53:59.699 Robert Tseng: a young, cracked, like, AI-enabled, like, ops person who just, like, wants to go and build… build the go-to-market motion. So, we’ll see. We feel like we found somebody who’s… who’s pretty good, but we’ll see if we can find a… find a good… good scope for her.
513 00:54:01.240 ⇒ 00:54:06.459 Luke Scorziell: Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, just, I would love to keep the conversation open, obviously, and then, like, I just,
514 00:54:06.910 ⇒ 00:54:10.500 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, I wanna make sure that I’m… Boy.
515 00:54:11.250 ⇒ 00:54:18.839 Luke Scorziell: helping the best that I can, so if that’s, like, not being a bottleneck to the sales side, or if it’s being, you know, more on partnerships, whatever.
516 00:54:18.840 ⇒ 00:54:27.309 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I think… I think you did the right thing in kind of speaking up, sharing, like, your… where you’re… where you’re… like, where you’re getting stuck, like, I mean…
517 00:54:27.600 ⇒ 00:54:30.380 Robert Tseng: I don’t feel like we’re so,
518 00:54:30.640 ⇒ 00:54:39.560 Robert Tseng: I would give people multiple… everyone gets multiple chances. None of us are experts at what we do, at least, like, in the whole, like, startup… I mean, doing a startup. If you were…
519 00:54:39.880 ⇒ 00:54:43.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, so it’s a learning process, and
520 00:54:43.600 ⇒ 00:55:00.860 Robert Tseng: if you are able to have the self-awareness to be like, this is too much scope, if you give me something… if I slim it down and just focus on this, I’ll do it better, and, like, I can’t take this on right now, I would rather you say that than, like, over-promise things and then just, like, under-deliver, which is, I feel like.
521 00:55:00.860 ⇒ 00:55:08.169 Robert Tseng: you know, the people that don’t work out here, like, I don’t… I can’t… like, there’s no good feedback loop. They’re not… I don’t see them improving.
522 00:55:08.270 ⇒ 00:55:12.900 Robert Tseng: They’re continuing to say yes to things. There’s no real self-awareness of, like.
523 00:55:13.200 ⇒ 00:55:27.019 Robert Tseng: well, what do I… what adjustments do… do they need to make? Like, they kind of just need to be told exactly what to do, and that’s… that’s just not… we don’t want more people on the team that are, like, like that, especially if you’re being, like.
524 00:55:27.150 ⇒ 00:55:39.329 Robert Tseng: given the responsibilities of being a lead, like, you gotta… you gotta own… own your own… own work. So, yeah, anyway, like, I think that’s… and I… we… you know, we’ll… we’ll keep…
525 00:55:39.560 ⇒ 00:55:44.630 Robert Tseng: It’s always an open conversation, like, obviously, we’re not machines, like, there’s always gonna be…
526 00:55:44.640 ⇒ 00:56:00.260 Robert Tseng: like, kind of ups and downs to it. So, you know, we’ve been doing this for 3 years now, so… Utom knows when I’m having a bad time, I’m just like, I can’t really get anything done, so I’d rather you take… take some time off, like, and kind of reset, and then come back, and…
527 00:56:00.840 ⇒ 00:56:03.390 Robert Tseng: Try to figure out how to find your rhythm.
528 00:56:03.740 ⇒ 00:56:10.020 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, those are all, like, the intangible things that we should just keep an open-ended conversation about.
529 00:56:10.220 ⇒ 00:56:10.990 Robert Tseng: But…
530 00:56:11.140 ⇒ 00:56:18.179 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay, I do gotta jump. I have to… I’m talking to our advisor in a few minutes, so I just want to have a few minutes to kind of gather my thoughts.
531 00:56:18.340 ⇒ 00:56:19.729 Robert Tseng: But yeah.
532 00:56:20.030 ⇒ 00:56:22.050 Luke Scorziell: Cool. Well, thanks for making the time. Appreciate it.
533 00:56:22.050 ⇒ 00:56:26.979 Robert Tseng: Sure, yeah, no, I know we haven’t done, like, a one-on-one in a while, so, been wanting to do it.
534 00:56:27.360 ⇒ 00:56:32.569 Luke Scorziell: Yeah, no, that’s great, so… Cool. Alright, well, good luck on the call.
535 00:56:32.570 ⇒ 00:56:33.469 Robert Tseng: Alright, thanks, Luke.
536 00:56:33.670 ⇒ 00:56:34.480 Robert Tseng: Bye.