Meeting Title: Phoenix Tracking Plan Sync Date: 2026-02-11 Meeting participants: Nandika Jhunjhunwala, Greg Stoutenburg


WEBVTT

1 00:00:30.200 00:00:33.490 Greg Stoutenburg: Nope, wrong button. Hey, Annika, how’s it going?

2 00:00:33.490 00:00:34.680 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Good, how are you?

3 00:00:35.100 00:00:36.650 Greg Stoutenburg: Doing pretty well.

4 00:00:38.150 00:00:48.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Right… Cool. Alright, I think we wanted to talk through some goals.

5 00:00:49.220 00:00:50.610 Greg Stoutenburg: for users.

6 00:00:51.240 00:00:58.590 Greg Stoutenburg: I had some asks around information that’s already in the backend that Caitlin was gonna provide, and then…

7 00:00:59.430 00:01:08.210 Greg Stoutenburg: I think you wanted to talk more about some… Some of the UI, and instrumentation. Is that right?

8 00:01:08.390 00:01:09.020 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yes.

9 00:01:09.190 00:01:09.510 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.

10 00:01:09.510 00:01:10.450 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yep.

11 00:01:10.570 00:01:19.429 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: I definitely owe you a loom, and I will see if I can get you access to, like, the Vercel, like, the front end.

12 00:01:19.890 00:01:23.249 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: But in the meantime, I can share my screen to get started. Cool.

13 00:01:23.380 00:01:29.989 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Sounds good. Give me a moment, I’ll run Phoenix on my computer.

14 00:01:50.180 00:01:51.780 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: It’s just running…

15 00:02:29.480 00:02:33.549 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: They almost have it up.

16 00:02:34.030 00:02:34.680 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.

17 00:02:58.310 00:03:01.190 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Okay, yes.

18 00:03:03.260 00:03:06.840 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: So this is, yep.

19 00:03:07.280 00:03:10.849 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: So let me know if you want me to click on something, or…

20 00:03:11.020 00:03:11.640 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep.

21 00:03:11.980 00:03:15.249 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, this is familiar. This looks good.

22 00:03:15.640 00:03:18.920 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, actually, right here on this screen, this is helpful.

23 00:03:19.490 00:03:26.479 Greg Stoutenburg: Because I was mapping out… I’ve created a bunch of new events, I mean, in the tracking plan for tables.

24 00:03:26.580 00:03:30.069 Greg Stoutenburg: So when you create a new table, you can…

25 00:03:30.590 00:03:36.589 Greg Stoutenburg: Use default synced objects, so source, it’s gonna be import or new table.

26 00:03:37.320 00:03:39.680 Greg Stoutenburg: No, actually, what we want is…

27 00:03:46.680 00:03:48.260 Greg Stoutenburg: All synced objects.

28 00:03:48.930 00:03:54.470 Greg Stoutenburg: CRM objects… Or upload.

29 00:03:55.610 00:03:58.279 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool. That’s good. Needed that.

30 00:03:59.880 00:04:02.090 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, that’s good.

31 00:04:03.680 00:04:04.600 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

32 00:04:05.280 00:04:06.320 Greg Stoutenburg: Good.

33 00:04:07.460 00:04:10.209 Greg Stoutenburg: Let’s go on to the next widget.

34 00:04:11.140 00:04:20.949 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Okay, we only have two so far. This is scheduling the next one. Right. And then we can probably think of settings as a widget, too, and think about if there’s anything you want to track over there.

35 00:04:20.959 00:04:22.269 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. Yep.

36 00:04:23.469 00:04:24.459 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

37 00:04:26.019 00:04:26.869 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

38 00:04:27.619 00:04:32.229 Greg Stoutenburg: So, that’s fine. And then the goal, again, would be to, like, export

39 00:04:32.529 00:04:37.029 Greg Stoutenburg: And I have that, as well, export to, you know, to create something else.

40 00:04:37.899 00:04:55.489 Greg Stoutenburg: So, yeah, I think that workflow looks good, and if I can just share real quick, I’ll show you… these are the events that I put down for the tables workflow. Because again, the goal is to, like, just look at what someone would be trying to accomplish, and then make sure we’re able to look at

41 00:04:55.709 00:05:04.959 Greg Stoutenburg: how they’re doing that. So for tables, it’s a table created, table viewed, so someone just opens a table. They edit a table that already exists.

42 00:05:05.319 00:05:08.709 Greg Stoutenburg: They enrich data,

43 00:05:08.829 00:05:23.539 Greg Stoutenburg: because Caitlin… I mean, we didn’t see a view on this in the examples, but because Caitlin said, you know, this is… it’ll be a clay-like feature, there’ll be some data, and, you know, the user enriches it, we’ll find whatever button that is where information is coming in, and assign it to that.

44 00:05:23.539 00:05:30.729 Greg Stoutenburg: And then table exported, and here the idea is that this would be when a user takes that table and then sends it somewhere else.

45 00:05:30.729 00:05:32.519 Greg Stoutenburg: You know, to use it elsewhere.

46 00:05:33.209 00:05:36.929 Greg Stoutenburg: So, this might… this might wait on final design.

47 00:05:37.510 00:05:38.020 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: For sure.

48 00:05:38.020 00:05:40.370 Greg Stoutenburg: All this table exported, or something else.

49 00:05:40.820 00:05:46.050 Greg Stoutenburg: But… my thought is that this is gonna capture most of what we’re looking for. What do you think?

50 00:05:47.460 00:05:55.239 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah, I think so too. So, I know you walked through, like, how this is, like.

51 00:05:55.460 00:06:06.770 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: set up in terms of, like, the columns and what they mean. So… That makes sense. Yeah.

52 00:06:07.190 00:06:17.250 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Cool. These look great, the only thing… To confirm if they, like… Table exported, like…

53 00:06:22.420 00:06:25.120 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Should we also have,

54 00:06:25.840 00:06:31.040 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Okay, so the table created would have, like, event property as, like, source, and .

55 00:06:31.920 00:06:37.930 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so for table created, I did, so source, as in…

56 00:06:39.020 00:06:44.539 Greg Stoutenburg: Yes. So, all those three options that you just showed, default synced objects, CRM objects, or upload.

57 00:06:45.290 00:06:47.840 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: So, right here is,

58 00:06:48.320 00:07:05.060 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: should we verify with backend data how they did, like, which, like, source… if they actually ended up creating that table? Because many times, like, even as a user, like, if I’m using Clay and I’m creating a table, I’ll, like, create it and delete it immediately, or, like, sometimes misclick on things.

59 00:07:06.710 00:07:15.270 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: So, any recommendations there? Should we confirm with the product data on the back end? Or should we just rely on, like, front end to start… start.

60 00:07:15.270 00:07:18.670 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so something that we could do is,

61 00:07:18.790 00:07:23.510 Greg Stoutenburg: we could actually create two separate events. One might be, like,

62 00:07:23.640 00:07:41.860 Greg Stoutenburg: table created, and then another tab, you know, like, table verified, or table confirmed, or something like that. Or table creation, one… one user post hoc I saw liked to distinguish what… what you could call intent events from confirmation events, so,

63 00:07:41.860 00:07:46.409 Greg Stoutenburg: you know, intent table created. Could be something like the user clicks the button.

64 00:07:46.470 00:07:55.790 Greg Stoutenburg: And also, as far as actually… because remember, here we’re just at the point of mapping this out. As far as instrumenting it goes, you could actually use AutoCapture for the intent event, if it’s just clicking a button.

65 00:07:55.790 00:07:56.310 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yes.

66 00:07:56.630 00:08:12.219 Greg Stoutenburg: But, if you’re separately interested in the event of the user clicked a button and the table was actually created in the backend, then… then when it comes to the instrumentation step, down here, we’ve got a column for…

67 00:08:12.940 00:08:14.149 Greg Stoutenburg: Where’s my column?

68 00:08:16.150 00:08:20.070 Greg Stoutenburg: Where’d my column go? Oh, well, anyway, there should be… oh.

69 00:08:20.440 00:08:29.779 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, this was a drop-down. This’ll say, like, client-side or server-side, so… Yeah. If we’re gonna send it over from the backend, then we would get… we would put the confirmation event in there.

70 00:08:30.630 00:08:36.810 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Okay. Yeah. So, okay, that’s great. Yeah, I guess, I think it’ll be important for us to…

71 00:08:36.909 00:08:39.100 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Make that distinction.

72 00:08:39.100 00:08:39.990 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, sure.

73 00:08:41.909 00:08:43.699 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, I’ll mark that as a follow-up.

74 00:08:50.339 00:08:53.099 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool. That’ll just be a note to self.

75 00:08:56.249 00:08:57.119 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

76 00:08:57.679 00:08:59.869 Greg Stoutenburg: In this very ugly green color.

77 00:09:00.269 00:09:05.839 Greg Stoutenburg: Don’t know why they put that there. Okay. So, for tables,

78 00:09:06.849 00:09:19.599 Greg Stoutenburg: I think tables looks good, the workflow’s pretty clear. For conversion events, these all, I think, just kind of get an asterisk by them, because we’re not sure if this is exactly what it’s going to be, but I did CTA clicked.

79 00:09:19.639 00:09:28.899 Greg Stoutenburg: And that’s, you know, talk to sales or upgrade for some gated feature. And this is something that we would just… we would just hold off on implementing this until we see what the final

80 00:09:28.999 00:09:31.499 Greg Stoutenburg: the final startup product is going to be.

81 00:09:33.089 00:09:42.349 Greg Stoutenburg: plan selected, at least in the original onboarding designs, you’d choose a plan right away. So that could be the plan selection button.

82 00:09:42.399 00:09:53.289 Greg Stoutenburg: And whether a user is going through the sign-up flow or the upgrade flow, we’d want that event to fire when they do their choosing. But again, you know, hold off on that one.

83 00:09:53.749 00:09:56.029 Greg Stoutenburg: And then billing action taken.

84 00:09:56.219 00:10:03.559 Greg Stoutenburg: Or, you know, this is basically broadly a purchase action, right? You know, purchase seeds, change plan, modify building settings.

85 00:10:03.880 00:10:09.040 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: I think here as well, it would be great to have, like, server-side confirmation from…

86 00:10:09.150 00:10:13.889 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Like, a database where we have, like, information.

87 00:10:16.580 00:10:17.240 Greg Stoutenburg: Yup.

88 00:10:17.590 00:10:18.390 Greg Stoutenburg: Great.

89 00:10:20.300 00:10:21.850 Greg Stoutenburg: Yep, we can add that.

90 00:10:24.590 00:10:27.590 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Cool, yes, this looks great,

91 00:10:29.250 00:10:34.239 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: From what I can tell, like, most of this I cannot start implementing today.

92 00:10:34.240 00:10:34.730 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.

93 00:10:34.730 00:10:40.860 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: instrumenting today. Maybe I can just start with, like, some widgets and stuff like that, and…

94 00:10:42.910 00:10:43.410 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.

95 00:10:43.410 00:10:44.060 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Fair enough.

96 00:10:44.250 00:10:52.090 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, good. As far as, I think we’re now in a… well, do you have a timeline on when anything will go live?

97 00:10:52.470 00:10:54.940 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah,

98 00:10:55.400 00:11:03.709 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: I’m not super sure. The timeline was, like, in 5 days, but I don’t think that’s going to be true. Okay.

99 00:11:04.110 00:11:13.759 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: So, I think what’s happening is we’re rolling out Phoenix very, like, gradually. Yeah. And they’re gonna start migrating, like.

100 00:11:14.350 00:11:34.079 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: like, legacy default users from, like, the old platforms, the new one. Yeah. So, it’s, like, sort of like a beta version that we’re launching first, and… Yeah. Beta version will look very different from, like, the Phoenix… like, what Phoenix is finally going to be. But I think, officially, I, Phoenix is gonna roll out with PLG, I think.

101 00:11:34.080 00:11:35.630 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: on… in April.

102 00:11:35.630 00:11:37.579 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Like, March or April,

103 00:11:38.150 00:11:46.280 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: But for all the other customers, I think, who are currently on default should migrate on the 1st of March, I think. But…

104 00:11:46.280 00:11:46.840 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

105 00:11:46.840 00:11:56.899 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: these timelines are very fluid, and I’m not sure, like, they, like, change every day. I understand. Working at a startup, it’s very fluid, so… yeah.

106 00:11:56.900 00:11:57.600 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

107 00:11:57.740 00:12:08.149 Greg Stoutenburg: So… okay. So what we can do for now, then, is continue working on this tracking plan, and getting down to the finest details that we can get.

108 00:12:08.150 00:12:08.560 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah.

109 00:12:08.560 00:12:10.610 Greg Stoutenburg: in advance. And that would be things like

110 00:12:10.730 00:12:30.149 Greg Stoutenburg: the discussion that we just had. Like, we want to add a couple of events that are specifically server-side confirmations of the event that a user takes in, in the nav. So, we… we can fill all of that out, so that the moment that engineers click merge on whatever piece of code is going to stand up.

111 00:12:30.150 00:12:33.209 Greg Stoutenburg: Even a small version for existing legacy users, even if it’s just

112 00:12:33.590 00:12:40.950 Greg Stoutenburg: particular part of the app, we can go, okay, we’re ready today to add all these events and begin tracking. Absolutely.

113 00:12:41.130 00:12:50.530 Greg Stoutenburg: Because… and the reason why it’s important to do it sort of as quickly as possible is because… I mean, of course, you know, because you want the data early, that’s part of it, but the other part is because

114 00:12:50.870 00:13:08.879 Greg Stoutenburg: What we want to do is make sure that the events that we’re tracking are firing correctly, we’re able to build our charts and dashboards to make sure that the things that we’re trying to measure are being successfully measured, and that’s going to require, like, a little bit of… that’s going to take a few iterations. It’s gonna be a bit of a feedback loop, so…

115 00:13:08.940 00:13:13.459 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, so let’s keep going in this direction, and then,

116 00:13:13.770 00:13:26.349 Greg Stoutenburg: And then that will… yeah, period. And then that will include distinguishing those events that are auto-tracked and that we can give names to, from things that are going to require adding some front-end or back-end code, or, you know.

117 00:13:26.350 00:13:26.960 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: I’m kidding.

118 00:13:26.960 00:13:27.510 Greg Stoutenburg: data in.

119 00:13:27.780 00:13:44.769 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Front-end code I can add. I have, like, the local codebase for Phoenix, and I’m on a branch for… for Phoenix that I’ve been given access to, and I can add, like, custom events on the front end. I’m not super sure about, like, backend.

120 00:13:44.770 00:13:45.360 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

121 00:13:45.360 00:13:49.989 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Instrumentation, I think that will… I’ll have to defer to engineering. Okay.

122 00:13:50.350 00:14:05.990 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: And I think, yeah, like, just the confirmation events, like you said, engineering can take care of, and… Okay. I think it’s pretty simple to add, like, any… I’m maybe planning on doing everything via code, because I can just feed Claude

123 00:14:06.010 00:14:13.210 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: my cursor, like, the instrumentation plan, and, like, approve, like, code snippets and make it do… do it for me.

124 00:14:13.210 00:14:14.169 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, it’s amazing.

125 00:14:14.170 00:14:17.209 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

126 00:14:17.210 00:14:17.920 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

127 00:14:18.030 00:14:19.940 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah, yeah.

128 00:14:20.330 00:14:20.710 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

129 00:14:20.710 00:14:23.870 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: It’s a matter of me having access to, like, the fully built-out platform.

130 00:14:24.260 00:14:45.339 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, I think we’re all waiting on that. Yeah, as far as, like, division of labor goes, you know, we’ve got Mustafa, who’s a front-end engineer on our team, who can… who’s supporting us as well. So, you know, as we look to those… as we look to those events that are going into code, you know, we can… we can run them by him and, like, just say, like, you know, these are the ones that we’ve implemented, here’s where this is, you know.

131 00:14:45.340 00:14:45.690 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yes.

132 00:14:45.690 00:14:53.929 Greg Stoutenburg: And maybe, you know, if this is something that you can just… you can do as you go, then we can have him review and make sure that we’ve got the architecture that we’re looking for.

133 00:14:53.930 00:14:54.740 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yep.

134 00:14:54.740 00:15:04.960 Greg Stoutenburg: Because, I mean, right, correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re not, sort of, by trade, a front engineer, it’s just something that you’re able to do, like, with some… Yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah, so we’ll still want those, you know.

135 00:15:05.480 00:15:06.559 Greg Stoutenburg: Keep those eyes on it. Yeah.

136 00:15:06.560 00:15:18.979 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: And I think even on our end, internally, like, before anything gets approved, like, this is just, like, a small branch of, like, the main codebase, so it’s all gonna be approved by, like, our CTO and, like, head of engineering before, like.

137 00:15:18.980 00:15:26.729 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: you know, we ship it, or anything of that sort, so… Yeah. It always has to have, like, double, triple confirmation, approval, for sure.

138 00:15:26.730 00:15:33.240 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, we want them to feel confident that when it’s time to hit merge, that they’re ready to just do it, instead of going, oh, hey, this is all wrong, start over, we’ll go.

139 00:15:33.740 00:15:35.930 Greg Stoutenburg: We started on this 7 weeks ago.

140 00:15:35.930 00:15:36.930 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah, for sure.

141 00:15:36.930 00:15:38.000 Greg Stoutenburg: We don’t want that.

142 00:15:38.000 00:15:38.370 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah.

143 00:15:38.370 00:15:39.050 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

144 00:15:39.410 00:15:46.310 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, great. I’ve got a couple of other things, do you have… Did you have other things?

145 00:15:47.270 00:15:51.549 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: I think that was mostly it, yeah.

146 00:15:51.790 00:15:52.790 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay.

147 00:15:53.020 00:15:55.339 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Yeah, you can talk about your things.

148 00:15:55.600 00:15:57.149 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, yeah, it was just…

149 00:15:57.580 00:16:06.449 Greg Stoutenburg: for me, I think the last… the last two, one of them is probably not possible. So, to get all the default OS widgets and user actions in default OS,

150 00:16:06.790 00:16:11.140 Greg Stoutenburg: even just a list of them, literally just written down, is… is fine.

151 00:16:11.260 00:16:16.870 Greg Stoutenburg: I can put them on the spreadsheet. And then table schema.

152 00:16:17.070 00:16:21.949 Greg Stoutenburg: of backend user and workspace tables, if you, you know, if you have that.

153 00:16:22.250 00:16:22.770 Greg Stoutenburg: Again.

154 00:16:22.770 00:16:23.239 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: It doesn’t even

155 00:16:23.990 00:16:34.049 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: I think Caitlin is super swamped, so I can take that off her plate. I’ll chat with her after, and I’ll ask her about that.

156 00:16:34.050 00:16:36.180 Greg Stoutenburg: Sounds good, yep. Doesn’t have to be today.

157 00:16:37.140 00:16:38.859 Greg Stoutenburg: Okay, that’s it for my end.

158 00:16:39.110 00:16:51.100 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Sounds good, yeah, thank you so much. I will… I’ll start, like, the auto capture for, like, the elements, and label them correctly, and make sure they have the properties that we need them to have, and yeah.

159 00:16:51.100 00:16:54.939 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, we can review that, later in the week or next week.

160 00:16:55.130 00:16:56.150 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Sounds good.

161 00:16:56.150 00:16:58.580 Greg Stoutenburg: Cool. Sounds good. Alright. Thanks, Nautica. See ya.

162 00:16:58.580 00:16:59.690 Nandika Jhunjhunwala: Bye.

163 00:16:59.690 00:17:00.370 Greg Stoutenburg: Bye.