Meeting Title: Recruitment Process Meeting Date: 2026-02-09 Meeting participants: Samuel Roberts, Greg Stoutenburg, Rico Rejoso, Pranav Narahari, Demilade Agboola, Uttam Kumaran, Amber Lin, Robert Tseng, Elizah Joy
WEBVTT
1 00:00:19.650 ⇒ 00:00:20.530 Rico Rejoso: Hey, guys.
2 00:00:20.850 ⇒ 00:00:21.580 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, guys.
3 00:00:23.150 ⇒ 00:00:24.429 Samuel Roberts: Oh, hello, sorry.
4 00:00:24.720 ⇒ 00:00:25.549 Samuel Roberts: I mentioned.
5 00:00:27.080 ⇒ 00:00:28.369 Rico Rejoso: Yep, we’re just waiting for directions.
6 00:00:34.730 ⇒ 00:00:41.149 Greg Stoutenburg: Sorry, I’m just now seeing that there are notes For this event, so,
7 00:00:41.360 ⇒ 00:00:44.870 Greg Stoutenburg: Hopefully I’m not starting off behind from not having reviewed it.
8 00:00:47.160 ⇒ 00:00:49.259 Rico Rejoso: No worries, we’ll go over to it.
9 00:00:49.480 ⇒ 00:00:50.679 Rico Rejoso: During this meeting.
10 00:00:50.680 ⇒ 00:00:52.790 Samuel Roberts: Okay, because I’m in the same boat. I missed that, too.
11 00:00:53.590 ⇒ 00:00:54.250 Greg Stoutenburg: Right.
12 00:01:32.880 ⇒ 00:01:34.100 Uttam Kumaran: Hi, everyone.
13 00:01:35.750 ⇒ 00:01:36.490 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, Tom.
14 00:01:37.170 ⇒ 00:01:38.260 Pranav Narahari: Hello, hello!
15 00:01:38.500 ⇒ 00:01:41.100 Uttam Kumaran: Bye, Greg. Missed our thing. Alright.
16 00:01:42.260 ⇒ 00:01:44.189 Greg Stoutenburg: I’ve been sitting here just fuming.
17 00:01:47.220 ⇒ 00:01:50.800 Uttam Kumaran: I finished with, like, 5 minutes left, I’m like, it’s not even worth, like.
18 00:01:50.800 ⇒ 00:01:52.409 Greg Stoutenburg: No, forget it. Cut it out.
19 00:01:52.410 ⇒ 00:01:54.280 Uttam Kumaran: Try to get up and get a coffee.
20 00:01:54.490 ⇒ 00:01:56.019 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
21 00:02:02.350 ⇒ 00:02:07.029 Uttam Kumaran: This should be good. We haven’t talked about recruiting in, like, a while, I think, as a team, so…
22 00:02:13.130 ⇒ 00:02:13.790 Greg Stoutenburg: Yes.
23 00:02:16.350 ⇒ 00:02:26.989 Pranav Narahari: Greg, you might have asked the same question right before I joined. Are we supposed to be looking, like, reading through this, SOP right now, or are we gonna go over it?
24 00:02:27.120 ⇒ 00:02:33.770 Greg Stoutenburg: Oh, yeah, yeah, that’s what I said, I was like, oh, I just saw that there were notes in here, sorry if I’m slowing us down, but Rico said he’s just gonna walk through it, so…
25 00:02:34.390 ⇒ 00:02:35.250 Pranav Narahari: Perfect, perfect.
26 00:02:36.250 ⇒ 00:02:37.380 Greg Stoutenburg: We’ll do it live.
27 00:02:39.400 ⇒ 00:02:44.869 Rico Rejoso: Alright, so, I guess we can start. Let me just ping Amber and Robert.
28 00:03:08.680 ⇒ 00:03:11.389 Rico Rejoso: I guess we have everyone here. Let me just share my screen.
29 00:03:16.750 ⇒ 00:03:18.079 Rico Rejoso: Hey, so,
30 00:03:18.380 ⇒ 00:03:25.090 Rico Rejoso: Good afternoon, team. So this is just a quick walkthrough of our recruitment process, since everyone here is involved in recruitment, either
31 00:03:25.210 ⇒ 00:03:30.800 Rico Rejoso: being an interviewer, I mean, you guys are all interviewer for each, stage process, so…
32 00:03:31.050 ⇒ 00:03:34.050 Rico Rejoso: Just a quick run-through on how the recruitment process would go.
33 00:03:34.180 ⇒ 00:03:39.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and if you have, if you have… I think during this, yeah, if you guys, if you have any questions.
34 00:03:39.090 ⇒ 00:03:42.140 Rico Rejoso: About why we’re doing certain things, or…
35 00:03:42.140 ⇒ 00:03:49.530 Uttam Kumaran: feedback from any past interview, experiences, like, please share. Like, this is gonna be…
36 00:03:49.720 ⇒ 00:03:53.950 Uttam Kumaran: For, like, the foreseeable future, like, kind of like the core interview panel.
37 00:03:54.030 ⇒ 00:04:10.349 Uttam Kumaran: As you can see, the makeup is basically, including Awash, it’s sort of like 2 or 3 people for every service line. And so we have a… typically a three-stage, funnel, and then for some people, I talk to
38 00:04:10.470 ⇒ 00:04:17.330 Uttam Kumaran: before, the funnel starts. So we’ll be going through all of that, but this is sort of…
39 00:04:17.970 ⇒ 00:04:34.049 Uttam Kumaran: Our best attempt at, like, having a robust interview process, but not wasting everybody’s time, trying to balance, like, you know, sourcing great candidates, but then also making it easy for all the people in their interview process to also, you know, give their feedback and actually
40 00:04:34.550 ⇒ 00:04:40.770 Uttam Kumaran: do their best to sort of raise the bar at Brainforge, so… open to all feedback. So, yeah, go ahead, Rico.
41 00:04:42.390 ⇒ 00:04:43.180 Rico Rejoso: Yep.
42 00:04:44.130 ⇒ 00:04:45.679 Rico Rejoso: So,
43 00:04:46.180 ⇒ 00:05:00.500 Rico Rejoso: going through our topic for this, for this meeting is also, understanding the recruitment flow, what to prepare before or prior to your interview, and, interview questions, and what to do with them. So, starting off, what to prepare before an interview.
44 00:05:00.620 ⇒ 00:05:17.809 Rico Rejoso: So, for everyone here, you just have to know what, what interview stage you’re assigned to, and make sure that you have that candidate Notion profile. Either the ops would be sending an update on our recruiting general Slack channel. I hope everyone is in there. I just added you recently, or just, I mean, early this morning.
45 00:05:17.910 ⇒ 00:05:23.220 Rico Rejoso: And if not, you can also visit the Notion Recruitment page on our new homepage, alright?
46 00:05:23.330 ⇒ 00:05:34.329 Rico Rejoso: And also have the interview questions set. So we have drafted a sample question in the interview scorecard. It’s also in the notes on this meeting. You can check that out later after this meeting.
47 00:05:34.610 ⇒ 00:05:42.330 Rico Rejoso: And you, or being an interviewer, you can also create those questions related to the role that can help you further evaluate the candidate, okay?
48 00:05:42.560 ⇒ 00:05:50.650 Rico Rejoso: So note, just for everyone, the decision falls under the interviewer whether to continue for the next stage of the process.
49 00:05:50.850 ⇒ 00:05:59.649 Rico Rejoso: So, talking about interview assignments, so we have only 3 teams that we’re, currently hiring, which is a data, data team, AI team, and a strategy team.
50 00:06:00.270 ⇒ 00:06:05.209 Rico Rejoso: So you can either be assigned to initial interview, second interview, and the final, final interview.
51 00:06:05.720 ⇒ 00:06:06.370 Rico Rejoso: Okay?
52 00:06:06.530 ⇒ 00:06:12.409 Rico Rejoso: So take a look at where you’re at right now, and let us also know if you have any questions, whether… what stage you’re on right now, okay?
53 00:06:15.120 ⇒ 00:06:16.909 Rico Rejoso: Right, so moving forward…
54 00:06:18.540 ⇒ 00:06:30.300 Rico Rejoso: recruitment process overview. So this is a one-line process, that we have for our recruitment. Basically, we have, the intake, which we have two ways of getting those leads or those candidates from.
55 00:06:30.300 ⇒ 00:06:43.579 Rico Rejoso: could either be outbound or inbound applicant. Then, moving forward to the interview process, which consists of three stages. The initial interview, second interview, and the final presentation, which is a panel interview.
56 00:06:43.690 ⇒ 00:06:56.299 Rico Rejoso: And if they pass, we will be off… we will be proceeding with the offer, negotiating, and onboarding. If not, we have to identify whether the drop-off is due to candidates being a loss or not fit.
57 00:06:56.580 ⇒ 00:06:58.149 Rico Rejoso: For the company, okay?
58 00:06:58.260 ⇒ 00:07:09.939 Rico Rejoso: Now, regarding our entry paths with the pipeline, again, we have two, which is inbound and outbound. Inbound are those individuals or candidates that have shown interest and had applied through our application notion form.
59 00:07:10.100 ⇒ 00:07:14.089 Rico Rejoso: And outbounds are those referrals, or are,
60 00:07:14.680 ⇒ 00:07:19.939 Rico Rejoso: Scouted, or let’s say, we’ve reached out with who has potential to help our team.
61 00:07:20.110 ⇒ 00:07:34.459 Rico Rejoso: of what we’re hiring. So, they all will go through different process, like, for inbound, it’s through Notion form and Notion screening of their Loom videos. For outbound, it is through, BF Chats, also known as the coffee chats, okay?
62 00:07:36.430 ⇒ 00:07:45.280 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, so, yeah, this is the, application intake for, Stage 1, which is… could either be BF chats or coffee chats, or the application motion form.
63 00:07:45.820 ⇒ 00:07:50.220 Rico Rejoso: For the interview rounds, we have the initial interview and the second interview.
64 00:07:50.740 ⇒ 00:08:01.510 Rico Rejoso: So, for those who are assigned for the initial interview, this is to assess whether the candidate meets the baseline of expectation if they were to become a Brainforge team member, okay?
65 00:08:01.900 ⇒ 00:08:20.889 Rico Rejoso: So, the outcome should only be either pass or fail. Pass, meaning we could proceed to the next stage. Fail, we have to get the reason, the notes behind those, and update their stat- status. Reason why is because we wanted to also share the reason for them not proceeding with the recruitment process, okay?
66 00:08:21.070 ⇒ 00:08:33.579 Rico Rejoso: for the Stage 3 second interview, it’s a role-specific or role-focused interview. It is to evaluate the job-critical competence and, see if their talent or their background skills
67 00:08:33.580 ⇒ 00:08:43.139 Rico Rejoso: can apply to all client works that we’re… that we currently have. Again, same outcome or decision, we just have a pass and fade decision system system, okay?
68 00:08:43.200 ⇒ 00:09:00.249 Rico Rejoso: If on the second interview they pass, we will be sending them an interview task, then have them schedule a final pilot interview once they’re finished with the interview task. If fail, same, we have to document the feedback or notes, and also send them a rejection email.
69 00:09:01.120 ⇒ 00:09:04.330 Rico Rejoso: Alright, so before we proceed, do we have any questions so far?
70 00:09:07.190 ⇒ 00:09:13.980 Amber Lin: Is there any templates of the interview notes that we’ll be taking, or is that just gonna be covered later?
71 00:09:15.050 ⇒ 00:09:16.190 Rico Rejoso: It is gonna be cooperative.
72 00:09:16.190 ⇒ 00:09:16.830 Amber Lin: Awesome.
73 00:09:16.830 ⇒ 00:09:21.020 Rico Rejoso: Also, within the interview scorecard, which… I shared on this.
74 00:09:21.290 ⇒ 00:09:23.169 Rico Rejoso: On the meeting notes, okay?
75 00:09:24.070 ⇒ 00:09:32.540 Rico Rejoso: I’ll give you guys time to take a look at it, since this is just drafted for now, and we’re yet to finalize this one, so we can also input your feedback or comments.
76 00:09:34.210 ⇒ 00:09:34.929 Rico Rejoso: All right.
77 00:09:35.330 ⇒ 00:09:36.700 Rico Rejoso: Anything else?
78 00:09:40.760 ⇒ 00:09:43.190 Rico Rejoso: Okay, if none, we can proceed.
79 00:09:43.360 ⇒ 00:10:01.700 Rico Rejoso: to the final round, which is, the final presentation, or the panel interview, and the, which focus on stress tests the candidate through multiple perspectives, okay? So the format is, it’s, the candidate presenting, what have they done during the interview task, or the technical assessment.
80 00:10:01.750 ⇒ 00:10:16.160 Rico Rejoso: And it will be a panel question and answer format, okay? Same outcome, it’s just a pass and fail decision system. Pass meaning we can proceed, fail, we have to record, and also provide feedback in regards to the decision made of why they failed.
81 00:10:16.670 ⇒ 00:10:29.919 Rico Rejoso: Right? So, as you see on the interview assignment, there are, like, three, team members from Brainforge that will be conducting the panel interview for different teams, that they’re involved to, right?
82 00:10:30.150 ⇒ 00:10:31.610 Rico Rejoso: So,
83 00:10:32.430 ⇒ 00:10:47.110 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, and if they pass the final presentation or the panel interview, it’s the stage 5, which is the offer. Basically, it’s the executive that will be doing this part, and onboarding will be done by the operations team.
84 00:10:47.350 ⇒ 00:10:50.659 Rico Rejoso: Okay, so that’s where the recruitment responsibility ends.
85 00:10:51.030 ⇒ 00:10:53.309 Rico Rejoso: After the final presentation.
86 00:10:53.470 ⇒ 00:10:54.130 Rico Rejoso: Great.
87 00:10:54.370 ⇒ 00:11:08.619 Rico Rejoso: Now, speaking of drop-offs, again, we have few categories which could either be a loss or not fit. Not fit meaning it’s evaluative. It may be because of skills gap, or experience mismatch, or communication concerns loss.
88 00:11:08.910 ⇒ 00:11:18.740 Rico Rejoso: Could either be of the following salary expectation mismatch, or the candidate withdrew. Or we didn’t… we’ve been ghosted, or they didn’t respond back to our previous emails.
89 00:11:19.270 ⇒ 00:11:19.970 Rico Rejoso: Okay?
90 00:11:20.850 ⇒ 00:11:28.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I just want to pause there. This is, like, something that I… I think, like, I struggle a lot with, is…
91 00:11:28.620 ⇒ 00:11:43.600 Uttam Kumaran: as the company has changed over time, our expectations for talent has changed. Of course, like, if you’re in this group, you’re really, really good, which is why you’re interviewing, but I think even as, like, we’ve grown,
92 00:11:43.760 ⇒ 00:11:59.970 Uttam Kumaran: I… the way I tend to try to judge is, is this someone who would come in and raise the bar, for Brainforge? Like, do we feel like this person would come in? Another way of putting it is… is make me be like, damn, I wish I was as smart as that person.
93 00:11:59.970 ⇒ 00:12:12.679 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And it’s sometimes really hard because we have immediate needs that we’re trying to solve, and sometimes you’re like, yeah, I think I see the potential, I see how this person could fit,
94 00:12:13.270 ⇒ 00:12:28.999 Uttam Kumaran: one thing that we always want to remind ourselves is, like, the hell yes or no sort of energy, right? Like, is this person that you… is this someone who you could see yourself waking up every day, going to a meeting, and being like, hell yeah, I’m down to, like, work with this person?
95 00:12:29.390 ⇒ 00:12:40.990 Uttam Kumaran: If you’re not, then you should probably say no. It’s not as easy as that, though. You’ll find some people who are like, dang, this person’s really good, but there’s a couple things that are off, and my gut instinct says no. So just trust your gut instinct.
96 00:12:41.010 ⇒ 00:12:57.769 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not gonna be able to hire… we’re not gonna hire hundreds and hundreds of people, so we… we don’t need to say yes to everybody, and we won’t be saying yes to everybody. My… our job in the first round interviews is to actually try to disqualify people as fast as we can, because the risk is that
97 00:12:57.840 ⇒ 00:13:00.509 Uttam Kumaran: Could they end up taking, you know, more time?
98 00:13:00.690 ⇒ 00:13:13.570 Uttam Kumaran: I also want to really be conscious, like, these are human beings, so, like, I don’t like to, sometimes, like, candidates or, like, pipeline get thrown around, like, these are all humans that are taking time to interview with us.
99 00:13:13.570 ⇒ 00:13:27.319 Uttam Kumaran: So, this doesn’t have to be, like, done in a disrespectful manner, and to date, like, we have not had any issues, because we treat, you know, everybody coming into the pipeline really, really seriously. But it is a two-way interview.
100 00:13:27.320 ⇒ 00:13:39.999 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So, if people don’t put their best foot forward one day, or they just don’t seem like they’re gonna come in and raise the bar, we’re totally okay to say no. So I just want to, like, stress that, because…
101 00:13:40.150 ⇒ 00:13:43.450 Uttam Kumaran: Because I… I wish I had said that to myself in the past.
102 00:13:43.640 ⇒ 00:13:46.730 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s just one thing I want to say out loud.
103 00:13:51.160 ⇒ 00:13:53.690 Rico Rejoso: Yes, exactly.
104 00:13:54.760 ⇒ 00:14:07.780 Rico Rejoso: So that’s the reason why, on the initial interview, we have those team members that have been with us for quite some time already, since they already know the in and outs of BrainForge, to help us gauge whether,
105 00:14:08.510 ⇒ 00:14:13.930 Rico Rejoso: the candidate is a good fit or not, based off our cultural fits here at Brain Forge, right?
106 00:14:15.750 ⇒ 00:14:20.269 Rico Rejoso: Okay, questions so far, before we move forward?
107 00:14:24.660 ⇒ 00:14:27.930 Demilade Agboola: I think my question is more of…
108 00:14:29.170 ⇒ 00:14:35.680 Demilade Agboola: Being able to, like, how standardized do we want the questions to be, versus, like, how…
109 00:14:36.150 ⇒ 00:14:41.559 Demilade Agboola: Spontaneous, because you know when you’re talking to people, there might be certain threads you might want to pull on.
110 00:14:42.030 ⇒ 00:14:50.210 Demilade Agboola: and, you know, explore how they handle certain situations. So how standardized do we really want to be versus, like, how…
111 00:14:51.160 ⇒ 00:14:55.930 Demilade Agboola: you know, would it be, like, semi-structured, basically, is what I’m trying to say. Like, not fully unstructured, but not, like…
112 00:14:56.040 ⇒ 00:14:59.380 Demilade Agboola: You know, there’s just a list of questions that we need to tick off the box.
113 00:15:03.920 ⇒ 00:15:19.749 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, so that’s where the, stage criteria falls into place. Right now, we’re still drafting the court. We have it on our interview scorecard, but again, yes, as mentioned, we wanted to make sure that we get your inputs and feedbacks, whether those criteria fits the position and role.
114 00:15:19.870 ⇒ 00:15:26.290 Rico Rejoso: that we are hiring for. So, if we go through, let’s say, for example, for a,
115 00:15:26.570 ⇒ 00:15:30.259 Rico Rejoso: Product analytics, we have set up this criteria.
116 00:15:30.400 ⇒ 00:15:38.490 Rico Rejoso: to, to checklist whether, if they pass this criteria, we can move on to the next process. The scorecard meant to be, like,
117 00:15:39.270 ⇒ 00:15:45.740 Rico Rejoso: what do you call this? Got that data structure of whether, they, from out of 1 to 5, we can…
118 00:15:45.740 ⇒ 00:15:59.689 Rico Rejoso: say that this, or this candidate meets, or meets this, particular criteria, and we can move forward with the process. And if they not… they didn’t meet that one, this… we can use this as a guide to help us better decide whether we proceeded
119 00:15:59.690 ⇒ 00:16:09.929 Rico Rejoso: proceed with those individuals or candidates, right? So again, that’s, what we’re also trying to come up with, which is the criteria for stages that… of the hiring stages.
120 00:16:12.680 ⇒ 00:16:19.009 Demilade Agboola: Okay, that’s fair. I think this shit will be quite helpful to just kind of understand the full scope of what we’re trying to do.
121 00:16:19.500 ⇒ 00:16:21.600 Demilade Agboola: Look at.
122 00:16:22.700 ⇒ 00:16:26.880 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re… we’re… we’re trying to work towards something like this,
123 00:16:28.790 ⇒ 00:16:33.890 Uttam Kumaran: it’s just… it’s just hard. Like, I think we… we’re just now figuring out, like.
124 00:16:34.030 ⇒ 00:16:43.359 Uttam Kumaran: all of the scheduling aspects of recruiting, and I think the next piece we want to go for is, like, how do we get towards, like, an unbiased scorecard?
125 00:16:43.440 ⇒ 00:17:01.269 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, the score… concept of a scorecard came from this, like, there’s this one really famous book in hiring, and I think it’s sort of a good way to do this, where everybody’s giving their… their opinion based on a set of predetermined criteria, and then we sort of aggregate that, versus… it’s a little bit hard to be like.
126 00:17:02.040 ⇒ 00:17:08.510 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t like this person, and like, what is their score for something, right? So, we’re thinking a little bit about that,
127 00:17:08.890 ⇒ 00:17:11.330 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, this will be probably the next evolution.
128 00:17:12.710 ⇒ 00:17:23.030 Uttam Kumaran: Of this whole process is, like, you’ll be able to put in not only, like, kind of free text, and you’ll be able to fill out a scorecard, and we’ll use both to sort of help us make the decision.
129 00:17:26.140 ⇒ 00:17:28.409 Greg Stoutenburg: As of yet, we do not have a scorecard.
130 00:17:30.370 ⇒ 00:17:35.859 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, we do not have a scorecard, we just have sort of a… Move forward, yes or no.
131 00:17:36.200 ⇒ 00:17:41.929 Uttam Kumaran: Got it. In case where you’re not… you don’t know, I will make the decision.
132 00:17:42.250 ⇒ 00:17:48.310 Uttam Kumaran: Usually, it’s not… usually it’s not, like, very close, meaning, like.
133 00:17:48.580 ⇒ 00:17:54.080 Uttam Kumaran: what ends up happening is honestly a little bit like what I mentioned in the last thing, which is, like.
134 00:17:54.370 ⇒ 00:18:00.349 Uttam Kumaran: it’ll be like, yeah, I don’t really know about moving this person forward, and I’m like, okay, that’s… that person should probably not move forward.
135 00:18:00.680 ⇒ 00:18:10.999 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s actually… I kind of take… I’m taking my own advice and being like, if you’re nervous about it, then it’s probably a no, right? And so, in that ways, it’s rare that we’re, like.
136 00:18:11.110 ⇒ 00:18:15.559 Uttam Kumaran: It’s rare that we debate people within the first and second rounds, usually it’s at the end.
137 00:18:15.810 ⇒ 00:18:16.940 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re like.
138 00:18:17.420 ⇒ 00:18:27.709 Uttam Kumaran: still, there’s, like, one or two pieces where we didn’t get a chance to figure out, okay, like, that’s usually where we’re having the conflicts. It’s rarely in the middle, I would say.
139 00:18:28.250 ⇒ 00:18:33.949 Samuel Roberts: For that last, panel, is the… is it, like, a vote, or is it unanimous for pass kind of thing?
140 00:18:35.220 ⇒ 00:18:40.350 Uttam Kumaran: I… it’d be a good question, like, I don’t know what other people think.
141 00:18:41.630 ⇒ 00:18:46.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe I’ll… I’ll wait to give my opinion. I don’t know if anyone else has any… has any thoughts.
142 00:18:48.330 ⇒ 00:18:51.190 Amber Lin: For me… Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
143 00:18:51.190 ⇒ 00:18:52.710 Samuel Roberts: I was just gonna… no, no, no, go ahead.
144 00:18:53.030 ⇒ 00:18:54.330 Samuel Roberts: I asked, so I’m curious.
145 00:18:54.330 ⇒ 00:19:13.859 Amber Lin: Okay, so for me, for example, at the later stage, I wouldn’t be able to answer on the technical side, because, for example, if it’s for product analytics, I can’t tell you if this person’s good or not. I can only tell you, if I like this person or if I think they can communicate or not. So, like, there’s limited…
146 00:19:14.290 ⇒ 00:19:18.239 Amber Lin: if we vote unanimously, I don’t know how we…
147 00:19:18.300 ⇒ 00:19:20.510 Uttam Kumaran: Weigh our different opinions.
148 00:19:24.660 ⇒ 00:19:26.249 Samuel Roberts: Right, yeah, I was gonna suggest…
149 00:19:26.520 ⇒ 00:19:32.659 Samuel Roberts: voting initially, but then I was thinking, if we really want to be a hell yes to people, it should probably be unanimous.
150 00:19:33.080 ⇒ 00:19:37.289 Samuel Roberts: But… I imagine after discussion.
151 00:19:37.470 ⇒ 00:19:41.020 Samuel Roberts: There’s probably some way to… Make it to that point, but…
152 00:19:41.630 ⇒ 00:19:55.690 Greg Stoutenburg: I mean, I appreciate the nod toward, like, objectivity, but also balancing that with, like, you know, gut feel about how someone will work well with the team and things like that, a little bit more feely.
153 00:19:55.690 ⇒ 00:19:57.780 Greg Stoutenburg: I think that,
154 00:19:57.780 ⇒ 00:20:22.759 Greg Stoutenburg: Something that asking for a unanimous vote can do is make a person who’s casting the vote really think very carefully about what they filled in on their scorecard, or the notes that they put down, right? Like, if I’ve… if I’ve given someone, you know, 4s and 5s, but then, like, you know, a 2 on something, and then I’m asked, alright, are you gonna put your thumb up for the unanimous vote? It might make me go, well, why did I give that person a 2? Maybe this one actually should have been
155 00:20:22.760 ⇒ 00:20:24.550 Greg Stoutenburg: more like a 4, and I
156 00:20:24.980 ⇒ 00:20:32.629 Greg Stoutenburg: part of them. And I think, actually, that that kind of recalibration is a good thing, and so this is, partly a.
157 00:20:32.630 ⇒ 00:20:35.210 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, you think it’s… you think it’s… you think it’s good?
158 00:20:35.790 ⇒ 00:20:39.229 Greg Stoutenburg: I think it’s a good thing. That is what I’m trying to build up to here.
159 00:20:39.230 ⇒ 00:20:42.280 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I thought that was gonna go the other way.
160 00:20:42.280 ⇒ 00:21:01.970 Greg Stoutenburg: Now, if I look at the scores I gave, and then I go, I really think this person is a good choice, but what did I write? Okay, there was this thing that I think maybe is… I perceive it as weakness or something, maybe that’s something to work with them on, maybe I was too critical. I think it’s good to sort of make yourself really look at your answers. So I actually, for that reason…
161 00:21:01.970 ⇒ 00:21:02.360 Uttam Kumaran: my…
162 00:21:02.360 ⇒ 00:21:04.189 Greg Stoutenburg: I do kind of like the thumbs up.
163 00:21:04.400 ⇒ 00:21:09.860 Uttam Kumaran: My opinion would be… That if you had given them a 2,
164 00:21:10.160 ⇒ 00:21:19.169 Uttam Kumaran: then there probably were, too, right? Like, in what way does, like, how… in what way does changing… being given the opportunity to change your mind imply that you had to
165 00:21:19.470 ⇒ 00:21:28.499 Uttam Kumaran: you weren’t right the first time, right? It’s sort of revisionist history, now that you’re… now that you’re, like, emotional about this person’s thing. That’s the thing, I almost… I’m like…
166 00:21:28.730 ⇒ 00:21:39.730 Uttam Kumaran: this is what I’m… I talk to Robert a lot about, is like, we will… we will disqualify way more people than we qualify. And that is gonna… that is the emotional…
167 00:21:39.870 ⇒ 00:21:42.940 Uttam Kumaran: Like, trouble of this process.
168 00:21:43.070 ⇒ 00:21:48.900 Uttam Kumaran: Is that as we get bigger and we get better, we will, for every,
169 00:21:49.420 ⇒ 00:21:57.910 Uttam Kumaran: like, right now, it’s like, every 10, 20 people, maybe one, it’ll go up and up and up. Like, this should be a painful process. Like, I’m not…
170 00:21:58.490 ⇒ 00:22:04.330 Uttam Kumaran: we’re… we shouldn’t be bringing in everybody, you know? I’m not expecting that. And so.
171 00:22:04.630 ⇒ 00:22:08.200 Uttam Kumaran: I won’t almost take the other side, but yeah, I’m curious what people think.
172 00:22:08.530 ⇒ 00:22:20.530 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, and just to clarify, like, I do agree with you on that, and I think if there’s something that I thought should be disqualifying, then the fact that I think I like them shouldn’t make me go, it’s not disqualifying, right? If it was disqualifying, it’s disqualifying, so…
173 00:22:20.530 ⇒ 00:22:20.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
174 00:22:20.950 ⇒ 00:22:29.160 Greg Stoutenburg: Agreed with that, but I think that, going for a unanimous vote in this way is… I do still think that’s a good thing.
175 00:22:34.700 ⇒ 00:22:38.410 Pranav Narahari: One thing that I’m just still thinking through is.
176 00:22:38.410 ⇒ 00:22:42.519 Greg Stoutenburg: kind of, Utam, what you mentioned about just, like, taking emotion out of it, what…
177 00:22:43.650 ⇒ 00:22:51.889 Pranav Narahari: what system allows you to take the most emotion out of it? So, like… and I wonder with unanimous voting, if we’re… if we’re going to be less…
178 00:22:52.100 ⇒ 00:22:55.790 Pranav Narahari: True to our gut feeling.
179 00:22:56.050 ⇒ 00:23:03.050 Pranav Narahari: Just because we know that if you say no, then you know for a fact that, like, you are influencing the final decision.
180 00:23:03.270 ⇒ 00:23:05.280 Pranav Narahari: And so…
181 00:23:07.000 ⇒ 00:23:12.400 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I guess this is where, like, another way of doing it is, like, Nobody should worry about
182 00:23:13.010 ⇒ 00:23:15.950 Uttam Kumaran: the final decision. Just do your scorecard.
183 00:23:17.050 ⇒ 00:23:17.700 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
184 00:23:18.120 ⇒ 00:23:31.639 Uttam Kumaran: either the score will be really clear, or if it’s not, then I’ll make the… one of us will make the final decision. Because I just don’t, like… I don’t… if it’s unanimous, then it’ll come out in the scores, and it’ll be okay. If it’s not.
185 00:23:31.860 ⇒ 00:23:35.089 Uttam Kumaran: Then, we may have some purview after…
186 00:23:35.240 ⇒ 00:23:45.099 Uttam Kumaran: we may have some understanding for just doing this for a while, and like, okay, those weaknesses, those always come out in the wash, and we’ll figure that out. Or some of these, it’s like a huge…
187 00:23:45.550 ⇒ 00:23:51.880 Uttam Kumaran: like, we won’t be able to get past this, and I don’t want to put that… that emotional burden does not need to be on everybody.
188 00:23:52.010 ⇒ 00:23:56.060 Uttam Kumaran: You know, like, I just want people to fill out the best scorecards and be like, cool.
189 00:23:56.660 ⇒ 00:24:05.269 Uttam Kumaran: Because this could just be, like, really emotionally taxing. So, I don’t want that to, like, I just don’t want everybody to kind of have to deal with that.
190 00:24:07.690 ⇒ 00:24:14.390 Pranav Narahari: Maybe, since it is a panel, we can have a discussion first, where we can ask questions about, like.
191 00:24:14.520 ⇒ 00:24:22.460 Pranav Narahari: I wasn’t sure about this thing, and like, let’s say it’s something that I feel, like, for the AI team, right, I’ll be talking to Sam. I’ll be like, Sam, I feel like
192 00:24:22.570 ⇒ 00:24:40.869 Pranav Narahari: honestly, my opinion on this specific subject matters less than… and I would kind of fault towards you. And maybe Sam’s like, yeah, like, actually, I feel like that he or she is, like, really good in this field. Whereas I, you know, maybe I was leaning towards maybe not as good, but, like, I’m not very confident in that opinion.
193 00:24:41.080 ⇒ 00:24:46.350 Pranav Narahari: But then after we have that discussion, then we kind of do a blind vote, and then it’s majority.
194 00:24:46.520 ⇒ 00:24:53.140 Pranav Narahari: Or… I don’t know what makes more sense there. Yeah, I think probably a majority at that point.
195 00:24:53.350 ⇒ 00:24:59.349 Pranav Narahari: We could even do a unanimous as well there,
196 00:25:01.150 ⇒ 00:25:06.620 Pranav Narahari: We can also, even if we want to make this more complex, you know, we don’t want to make it too complex, I’m sure, but…
197 00:25:06.720 ⇒ 00:25:12.750 Pranav Narahari: If it’s unanimous, obviously, yeah, there’s nothing to discuss. If it’s a majority and one person says no.
198 00:25:13.210 ⇒ 00:25:16.589 Pranav Narahari: Then we figure out… we can maybe have another discussion?
199 00:25:17.680 ⇒ 00:25:19.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, another vote.
200 00:25:19.300 ⇒ 00:25:21.370 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, another vote, because then we can see, like, why did.
201 00:25:21.370 ⇒ 00:25:23.920 Uttam Kumaran: Robert, what do you think? You’re the lawyer, what do you think?
202 00:25:28.680 ⇒ 00:25:35.009 Robert Tseng: I… sorry, I was, like, putting together something in the background, so I wasn’t really paying attention to what you guys were debating.
203 00:25:35.010 ⇒ 00:25:39.590 Uttam Kumaran: Final, final, final panel, like, interview? Like, how should we decide?
204 00:25:39.960 ⇒ 00:25:41.240 Uttam Kumaran: on the person.
205 00:25:42.810 ⇒ 00:25:48.600 Uttam Kumaran: Like, should it be, like, a unanimous vote? Should it escalate up after people fill out a scorecard?
206 00:25:51.280 ⇒ 00:25:53.060 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t think it’s been unanimous.
207 00:25:53.870 ⇒ 00:25:59.340 Robert Tseng: That’s not how, Supreme Court justices are nominated.
208 00:25:59.340 ⇒ 00:26:00.790 Uttam Kumaran: How does, how does jury work?
209 00:26:02.360 ⇒ 00:26:14.089 Robert Tseng: I mean, it’s not unanimous, it’s this majority, so… but it’s also… I mean, jury’s not… jury doesn’t… I mean, I don’t think we should necessarily use the judicial system’s way of making decisions here. No, I’m just… I mean…
210 00:26:14.580 ⇒ 00:26:15.270 Robert Tseng: I think…
211 00:26:15.520 ⇒ 00:26:35.000 Robert Tseng: I mean, yeah, I think if we… we should give people an opportunity to go and, like, kind of edit, like, their responses if we get to a place where we can’t move forward. Like, if there’s, like… I don’t know if it’s, like, a tiebreaker or something, and people have to edit their stories, like, I think we should have… we should give interviewers the opportunity to go back and reconsider their answer.
212 00:26:35.680 ⇒ 00:26:38.760 Robert Tseng: But then, you know, I think
213 00:26:38.870 ⇒ 00:26:40.839 Robert Tseng: Then it’s up to you, kind of.
214 00:26:42.240 ⇒ 00:26:56.730 Robert Tseng: I guess me and you to decide, like, do we feel like they just adjusted their answer? Like, is that… is the… is there… can they make a good enough case to advocate for their adjustment? Like, I… I feel like there… there still has to be some…
215 00:26:56.920 ⇒ 00:27:05.269 Robert Tseng: like… you’re basically having a chance to go back and rebut or, like, change your argument. So, like.
216 00:27:05.410 ⇒ 00:27:08.880 Robert Tseng: We… we have to have… we have to have, some sort of…
217 00:27:10.700 ⇒ 00:27:15.309 Robert Tseng: Judgment based on what… on whether that is acceptable.
218 00:27:19.340 ⇒ 00:27:27.550 Demilade Agboola: I’m curious, can we have a, like, a scale system? So, like, for instance, for each candidate, like, if there are three of us on the final panel.
219 00:27:27.660 ⇒ 00:27:39.590 Demilade Agboola: Can we have a skill system? So, like, what I might say, for this candidate, I am, like, 95% certain he’s brain forge quality. I might say, I feel, like, 87%.
220 00:27:39.790 ⇒ 00:27:53.599 Demilade Agboola: you know, certain his brain forge quality, and then, you know, another candidate, another candidate, so maybe we have 3 final candidates, and we all give, like, percentages of how confident we are, and then we could kind of, like, take an average of all of that.
221 00:27:53.730 ⇒ 00:28:02.850 Demilade Agboola: And figure out, like, okay, based off all the three, final decision makers, this is the highest average, and this is the person we would want on our team.
222 00:28:14.020 ⇒ 00:28:18.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m trying to underst- I’m trying to balance between, like, if it’s, like…
223 00:28:20.280 ⇒ 00:28:25.780 Uttam Kumaran: what we’ve learned from, like, doing this, and, like, whether we should… it’s, like, worth complicating.
224 00:28:29.800 ⇒ 00:28:36.860 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, that’s fair. I’m just… I’m just trying to think of, like, how can we make it beyond just, like, a yes, no, and then…
225 00:28:36.860 ⇒ 00:28:37.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
226 00:28:37.310 ⇒ 00:28:38.770 Demilade Agboola: This is to get.
227 00:28:38.770 ⇒ 00:28:44.340 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, ideally, you have these scorecards, right? And then we have a minimum threshold that you need to hit.
228 00:28:44.700 ⇒ 00:28:51.019 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s sort of… that’s sort of the plan we’ll arrive at. I don’t know if we’re gonna have that for another month, maybe.
229 00:28:52.210 ⇒ 00:29:02.239 Samuel Roberts: back to the, the structure, because, like, I think for the panels, it was, like, a new… one new person, the other two people had already seen this person, right?
230 00:29:02.530 ⇒ 00:29:03.439 Demilade Agboola: Well, it’s like.
231 00:29:03.440 ⇒ 00:29:06.960 Uttam Kumaran: Usually, like, yeah, Robert or I are in the panel.
232 00:29:07.770 ⇒ 00:29:10.939 Samuel Roberts: Right. But the other two are people that have already done…
233 00:29:11.050 ⇒ 00:29:12.210 Samuel Roberts: So if they’ve gotten this far…
234 00:29:13.160 ⇒ 00:29:14.900 Samuel Roberts: We probably… I mean, I guess this is when the tech.
235 00:29:14.900 ⇒ 00:29:15.890 Uttam Kumaran: But not, but again, not…
236 00:29:15.890 ⇒ 00:29:17.640 Samuel Roberts: I’m in there, right? So, yeah.
237 00:29:17.640 ⇒ 00:29:18.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
238 00:29:20.470 ⇒ 00:29:21.140 Demilade Agboola: So…
239 00:29:21.140 ⇒ 00:29:24.950 Uttam Kumaran: For AI, like, but again, sometimes I talk to these folks before, so…
240 00:29:25.080 ⇒ 00:29:28.389 Uttam Kumaran: It’s, like, not exactly, like, blind in that way.
241 00:29:28.930 ⇒ 00:29:35.850 Uttam Kumaran: But, I don’t know, my gut instinct is, like, Yes or no? Unanimous.
242 00:29:37.460 ⇒ 00:29:40.650 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I just, like…
243 00:29:42.090 ⇒ 00:29:47.540 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, guys, I just don’t think we’re gonna let that many people in, I’d rather just be, like, unanimous.
244 00:29:47.540 ⇒ 00:29:48.080 Demilade Agboola: Nice.
245 00:29:48.080 ⇒ 00:29:51.750 Uttam Kumaran: Also, if…
246 00:29:51.750 ⇒ 00:29:52.330 Pranav Narahari: vanity.
247 00:29:52.730 ⇒ 00:29:53.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
248 00:29:53.580 ⇒ 00:29:54.699 Uttam Kumaran: Go ahead.
249 00:29:54.770 ⇒ 00:29:56.799 Pranav Narahari: I was gonna ask, like, for recruiting.
250 00:29:56.950 ⇒ 00:30:07.759 Pranav Narahari: are we going to be hiring based on, like, let’s say for the AI team, like, we have a client that we need to, like, staff, like, let’s say 3 engineering… 3 engineers on, and, like, over the course of, like, 2-3 weeks, we have…
251 00:30:07.920 ⇒ 00:30:11.740 Pranav Narahari: let’s say, like, 20 engineers to, like, go through, because if that’s the case.
252 00:30:11.740 ⇒ 00:30:16.809 Uttam Kumaran: Not really. We just kind of recruit all… we’re gonna be recruiting, like, all the time.
253 00:30:17.810 ⇒ 00:30:18.540 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
254 00:30:18.790 ⇒ 00:30:32.480 Pranav Narahari: So, for recruiting all the time, like, after this final panel interview, is it a, like, we send them over a yes, or is it just, like, internally, we’re like, this person’s on deck, like, once we have, like, a spot for them, we can give them a call and be like, you’re in?
255 00:30:32.480 ⇒ 00:30:35.619 Uttam Kumaran: for all of these roles, we have a spot. So, like.
256 00:30:35.750 ⇒ 00:30:40.719 Uttam Kumaran: We won’t… we won’t recruit unless there’s a spot. I mean, that… I guess that’s what I’m saying.
257 00:30:42.430 ⇒ 00:30:43.820 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha, interesting, okay.
258 00:30:43.820 ⇒ 00:30:47.789 Uttam Kumaran: Like, there’s always demand. At least, at least in the last 6 months.
259 00:30:48.660 ⇒ 00:30:57.270 Uttam Kumaran: like, there’s always demand. You know, the reason being, dude, is because we just don’t let everybody in. So in order to find the one person, we have to call 50 people.
260 00:30:57.770 ⇒ 00:30:58.320 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
261 00:30:58.320 ⇒ 00:31:02.989 Uttam Kumaran: And so I can’t… Pick up the phone and get 50 people into a process.
262 00:31:03.250 ⇒ 00:31:06.219 Uttam Kumaran: So, our alternative is, like, we always recruit.
263 00:31:06.350 ⇒ 00:31:09.610 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So we’re always in the market recruiting for the right time.
264 00:31:10.630 ⇒ 00:31:19.480 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think when we hired you, it was… we were… this was, like, mid-last year when I talked to you. It was… things were just not as crazy as they are now.
265 00:31:20.830 ⇒ 00:31:28.000 Uttam Kumaran: And so I… but I still do a lot of that. I still talk to people, and I’m like, I don’t know whether this is the right time, but maybe in, like, a year. Like, let me… let’s see.
266 00:31:28.110 ⇒ 00:31:39.369 Uttam Kumaran: And then sort of gets stuffed somewhere in Notion in the back of my head, and then we keep rolling. Right now, I think for every role, if… for the right people, we will… we will… there are spots.
267 00:31:39.560 ⇒ 00:31:40.370 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
268 00:31:41.410 ⇒ 00:31:42.260 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha.
269 00:31:42.260 ⇒ 00:31:43.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So…
270 00:31:44.170 ⇒ 00:32:00.509 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I can… actually, like, yeah, now that I think back to, like, my experience, it’s, something similar might work well, like, yeah, we kind of discussed, like, last summer, but then, like, I ended up eventually, like, working at Brain Forge, like, in December.
271 00:32:00.580 ⇒ 00:32:03.050 Pranav Narahari: And so…
272 00:32:03.080 ⇒ 00:32:11.479 Pranav Narahari: say there’s opportunities, like, right now, like, let’s say there’s, like, spots, like, 3 spots available right now, and we have 50 candidates.
273 00:32:11.480 ⇒ 00:32:24.310 Pranav Narahari: the top 3 will get the positions, but then maybe if there’s still some people that haven’t been disqualified, let’s say, because, like, you know, we just know they’ll never be a good fit for Brainforge, we can still just keep them, like.
274 00:32:24.310 ⇒ 00:32:27.859 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, they… so they stay… we have a keep warm thing.
275 00:32:28.230 ⇒ 00:32:29.089 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay.
276 00:32:29.090 ⇒ 00:32:33.929 Uttam Kumaran: So they stay, like, your… your position, your name was… has been a notion, it just stayed there.
277 00:32:34.280 ⇒ 00:32:39.090 Uttam Kumaran: Until we, like, found… I found… Something.
278 00:32:39.540 ⇒ 00:32:40.340 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
279 00:32:40.340 ⇒ 00:32:49.819 Uttam Kumaran: But also, like, that’s just for AI. Like, we have probably two or… we have probably… we have, like, at least one opening on strategy, two on data.
280 00:32:52.980 ⇒ 00:32:56.459 Pranav Narahari: So when we’re saying yes or no, that doesn’t mean, like, they are getting hired.
281 00:32:56.460 ⇒ 00:32:58.710 Uttam Kumaran: I, yeah, I guess, like, yeah, it’s…
282 00:32:58.990 ⇒ 00:33:08.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yes or no is about, like, less about, oh, would they be good on X company? It’s like, would they be good in our company?
283 00:33:08.920 ⇒ 00:33:15.219 Uttam Kumaran: like, maybe the flip to make. Like, are they a good Brainforged team member? And therefore, are they good…
284 00:33:15.380 ⇒ 00:33:21.660 Uttam Kumaran: for our clients. I’m not like, oh, they’re good for Lilo, but then if Lilo’s in here, like, they can’t do anything, like…
285 00:33:21.720 ⇒ 00:33:23.839 Pranav Narahari: Right. We just don’t hire… we just don’t…
286 00:33:23.910 ⇒ 00:33:32.389 Uttam Kumaran: we don’t hire like that, or when we did, quickly, I was like, this person is just good at this, but I’m sure they can get good at a broad range of things.
287 00:33:32.780 ⇒ 00:33:38.019 Uttam Kumaran: So we’re not necessarily hiring just for one spot on one client. We’re hiring to join
288 00:33:39.010 ⇒ 00:33:40.749 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the entire technical work.
289 00:33:51.330 ⇒ 00:33:55.670 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I kind of… I like Robert’s thing on, like, if it’s not unanimous.
290 00:33:55.890 ⇒ 00:33:58.449 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe there’s one more chance for a vote.
291 00:33:59.090 ⇒ 00:34:00.890 Uttam Kumaran: The problem with that is…
292 00:34:02.190 ⇒ 00:34:05.959 Samuel Roberts: is, like, some people are just very convincing, so, like… Yeah.
293 00:34:07.140 ⇒ 00:34:08.679 Uttam Kumaran: You can get swayed.
294 00:34:12.219 ⇒ 00:34:19.879 Uttam Kumaran: So, it’s maybe, like, if it’s not unanimous, it goes to, like, Robert and I to make the decision, because again, really, it’s like, it’s not that I don’t…
295 00:34:20.380 ⇒ 00:34:27.319 Uttam Kumaran: I would love, if we want to do it unanimous, and everybody, we need to agree on everything, there’s just a high chance of both, like.
296 00:34:27.469 ⇒ 00:34:31.299 Uttam Kumaran: We have to have, like, a tense discussion, or argue.
297 00:34:31.550 ⇒ 00:34:34.809 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like, if it doesn’t go your way, you could be, like, pissed.
298 00:34:34.940 ⇒ 00:34:40.969 Uttam Kumaran: So instead, what I’m like, why don’t we just do a vote, If it’s not unanimous.
299 00:34:41.190 ⇒ 00:34:47.180 Uttam Kumaran: then ultimately Robin and I can just decide. And that way, everybody goes home. Like, it doesn’t… it’s, like, not, like…
300 00:34:47.300 ⇒ 00:34:49.529 Uttam Kumaran: You don’t have to take that baggage with you.
301 00:34:49.989 ⇒ 00:34:56.749 Uttam Kumaran: Because this… I don’t know, that’s how I feel. Like, I can… I think this process, interviewing candidates.
302 00:34:56.960 ⇒ 00:35:03.890 Uttam Kumaran: it’s kind of like sales, like, you get married to the deal, and, like, I don’t want people to, like, have to deal with that. It’s just a lot.
303 00:35:04.960 ⇒ 00:35:10.320 Uttam Kumaran: And again, I think for now, we tend to make the final call on everybody.
304 00:35:11.050 ⇒ 00:35:13.439 Uttam Kumaran: At some point, maybe that changes, but, like…
305 00:35:14.520 ⇒ 00:35:17.069 Uttam Kumaran: If it’s unanimous, then I think it’s a no-brainer.
306 00:35:17.710 ⇒ 00:35:18.340 Samuel Roberts: Right.
307 00:35:19.000 ⇒ 00:35:24.480 Uttam Kumaran: If it’s not unanimous, Maybe we have a discussion, and then we make a final decision.
308 00:35:25.380 ⇒ 00:35:25.900 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
309 00:35:26.730 ⇒ 00:35:27.280 Pranav Narahari: Yep.
310 00:35:29.140 ⇒ 00:35:31.610 Uttam Kumaran: You could try that, and if… and if people are like.
311 00:35:33.150 ⇒ 00:35:39.569 Uttam Kumaran: if we feel like it’s not going the right way, like, we… like, Robert and I are denying too many candidates or whatever, we can adjust.
312 00:35:39.870 ⇒ 00:35:40.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
313 00:35:41.230 ⇒ 00:35:42.209 Samuel Roberts: Probably the best plan.
314 00:35:42.210 ⇒ 00:35:47.790 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just learning from… my experience, and, like, I tend to… it just tends to be, like.
315 00:35:49.420 ⇒ 00:36:02.900 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want everybody to… because what will happen is you’ll be… you’ll then go back to normal stuff, and then you’ll be like… you’ll either be like, damn, I really wished I had this person, or when that person joins, you’ll be thinking about the recruiting process too much.
316 00:36:03.690 ⇒ 00:36:08.309 Uttam Kumaran: And almost, like, be like, oh, should we have hired this person? Like, I want to avoid both situations.
317 00:36:09.380 ⇒ 00:36:13.389 Uttam Kumaran: I just wanna… I can compartmentalize… I can compartmentalize it now.
318 00:36:13.610 ⇒ 00:36:17.470 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t want everybody to, like, do that. It’s just a little bit rough.
319 00:36:21.850 ⇒ 00:36:24.480 Uttam Kumaran: So let’s… yeah, I mean, we could… yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
320 00:36:24.780 ⇒ 00:36:33.139 Uttam Kumaran: So let’s plan on… let’s plan on that, Rico. Let’s just try to do… if it’s unanimous, we’re good. If it’s not, we’ll do a short discussion.
321 00:36:33.680 ⇒ 00:36:34.990 Uttam Kumaran: And then…
322 00:36:35.820 ⇒ 00:36:42.520 Uttam Kumaran: like, make a call. I do would… I certainly would like to move as much to, like, a scorecard-based process.
323 00:36:43.270 ⇒ 00:36:50.609 Uttam Kumaran: as possible. And then, because the scores will kind of speak for themselves, ultimately.
324 00:36:50.930 ⇒ 00:36:56.810 Uttam Kumaran: And we will learn over time, so yeah, that’s… Makes sense.
325 00:37:02.650 ⇒ 00:37:03.670 Rico Rejoso: Gotta, Jess.
326 00:37:07.230 ⇒ 00:37:15.850 Rico Rejoso: we’ll take note of that. As of now, I think we just… one have… I mean, we just have one earning goal, or, you know.
327 00:37:17.000 ⇒ 00:37:22.779 Rico Rejoso: I think that should be moving to the final process so we can, you know, get that and maybe…
328 00:37:23.100 ⇒ 00:37:30.229 Rico Rejoso: Otherwise, if that process would work, or if we should apply it moving forward to all candidates that will be doing the final interview process.
329 00:37:32.050 ⇒ 00:37:36.600 Rico Rejoso: So, also, mentioned on the meeting notes, we have
330 00:37:38.040 ⇒ 00:37:57.230 Rico Rejoso: We have this, FigJam that has all the Loom video questions, also for everyone to take a look at and review, if we should retain or if we should change some of the questions, along with some of the resources that we have on the recruitment side. Maybe you guys can also take a look at it and further provide your suggestion and feedback in some part of the process in recruitment, okay?
331 00:37:58.420 ⇒ 00:38:14.649 Greg Stoutenburg: Rico, quick question. So, for example, I have an interview to give on Friday, and because it’s with me, I guess that means it’s the second interview, in the strategy stream. So, if I am thinking during that meeting, like, yeah, this is gonna be a yes from me.
332 00:38:14.870 ⇒ 00:38:19.510 Greg Stoutenburg: do I just go ahead and say during that meeting, okay, we’ll send you a technical assessment?
333 00:38:20.530 ⇒ 00:38:22.280 Rico Rejoso: Switch response question.
334 00:38:22.440 ⇒ 00:38:23.489 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, or do I.
335 00:38:23.490 ⇒ 00:38:34.840 Rico Rejoso: Regarding to the results of the interview, as much as possible, we don’t want to provide a guaranteed answer yet unless we discuss it offline, and we will be sending an email that will confirm your decision.
336 00:38:35.110 ⇒ 00:38:39.919 Rico Rejoso: For the candidate, which I think would be better than stating it during your interview.
337 00:38:40.640 ⇒ 00:38:41.520 Greg Stoutenburg: Sounds good.
338 00:38:42.180 ⇒ 00:38:46.059 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, kind of some of the reasons why, like, it falls apart is, like.
339 00:38:46.440 ⇒ 00:38:54.120 Uttam Kumaran: If we’re also interviewing someone else, and then it just so happens that someone else makes it, and we have to sort of, like, the spot goes away.
340 00:38:56.730 ⇒ 00:39:09.350 Uttam Kumaran: there’s just, like, ran… just, like, just random things. Yeah, it’s just as much as you can hedge that, I would… again, it’s just, like, you don’t want to say something, and then it doesn’t happen that way, and then you’re like, damn, I really shouldn’t have said that, it’s just like…
341 00:39:09.640 ⇒ 00:39:12.469 Greg Stoutenburg: Great news! Technical assessment coming your way! You are on.
342 00:39:13.530 ⇒ 00:39:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: I usually, with a… Yeah, I usually say you’ll hear back from us as soon as I…
343 00:39:20.200 ⇒ 00:39:23.580 Uttam Kumaran: child operations team, thank you for the time, that’s it.
344 00:39:23.580 ⇒ 00:39:26.110 Samuel Roberts: Like, can we… we can commit to, like, a follow-up one way.
345 00:39:26.110 ⇒ 00:39:29.419 Uttam Kumaran: Totally, yeah, yeah, I would say you’re definitely gonna hear back, like.
346 00:39:29.420 ⇒ 00:39:37.399 Samuel Roberts: Okay. That’s, like, one of my biggest pet peeves when I’ve been in that process is when a company goes through, like, at least one interview and then ghosts you without, like.
347 00:39:37.400 ⇒ 00:39:37.850 Greg Stoutenburg: Yup.
348 00:39:37.850 ⇒ 00:39:40.609 Uttam Kumaran: Being on this side, I get it. Like, I mean, I don’t get it at some of the.
349 00:39:40.610 ⇒ 00:39:42.549 Samuel Roberts: Oh, yeah, no, I do too. I’m just saying, like…
350 00:39:42.550 ⇒ 00:39:46.500 Uttam Kumaran: million people. We have definitely… but that’s why we’re…
351 00:39:46.690 ⇒ 00:39:59.869 Uttam Kumaran: We’re trying to be very, very intentional with, like, we’re gonna share… we share this the moment the first interview gets booked, we share what the whole process is gonna be, and we’re pretty clear, and after time, we will… we will actually
352 00:39:59.870 ⇒ 00:40:07.790 Uttam Kumaran: try and share more about our process, and our process is also, like, much more communication heavy. It’s a lot less, like, lead code, stuff like that.
353 00:40:07.840 ⇒ 00:40:11.160 Uttam Kumaran: Right, so, it’s pretty friendly.
354 00:40:11.910 ⇒ 00:40:12.470 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
355 00:40:12.470 ⇒ 00:40:25.520 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, and at the same time, that’s the reason why we require every interviewer to have their notes and feedback in the Candidate Notion database, because we want to make sure… I mean, regardless if they pass or fail, we want to provide feedback to that candidate.
356 00:40:25.630 ⇒ 00:40:29.639 Rico Rejoso: Right, so whether they pass or not, they’ll be receiving follow-up or updates from us.
357 00:40:31.850 ⇒ 00:40:36.270 Pranav Narahari: If applicants, like, during our interview, let us know that they are
358 00:40:36.870 ⇒ 00:40:43.460 Pranav Narahari: you know, they have an offer, or they have to make a decision by X date, is there a certain process that we should follow?
359 00:40:47.700 ⇒ 00:40:51.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, Rico, I don’t know, maybe it just gets put in notes?
360 00:40:54.220 ⇒ 00:41:05.900 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, I mean, I mean, after every interview, you guys will also, you know, share your discussion, whether we passed it or fell, so we already have the results, and we’ll just communicate it through email, rather than, you know, providing it during the meeting with them.
361 00:41:09.310 ⇒ 00:41:18.530 Rico Rejoso: So, that’s the reason why the interviewer has the discretion whether to pass or fail that candidate. Afterwards, after a few minutes, or within the day, we can also provide that
362 00:41:19.050 ⇒ 00:41:25.149 Rico Rejoso: The results to them, as long as we got… as long as the operations got the notes or the decision from you guys.
363 00:41:26.880 ⇒ 00:41:35.120 Rico Rejoso: But if in case they ask those questions, we cannot really promise any certain time, but, follow-up will be provided as soon as possible.
364 00:41:37.260 ⇒ 00:41:43.329 Rico Rejoso: We can’t guarantee anything, so of course that’s… I think that’s the best way to answer those questions coming from the candidates.
365 00:41:45.060 ⇒ 00:41:45.690 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha.
366 00:41:50.440 ⇒ 00:41:51.040 Rico Rejoso: Okay.
367 00:41:51.480 ⇒ 00:41:52.649 Rico Rejoso: So yeah,
368 00:41:52.870 ⇒ 00:42:10.359 Rico Rejoso: It’s just a quick walkthrough of our recruitment process so far right now, but yeah, I have… I mean, I mean, we have the notes, which have all the resources for all the things that we have on the recruitment side. Feel free to review those on your time, and leave any comments or suggestions, whether some process…
369 00:42:10.490 ⇒ 00:42:25.560 Rico Rejoso: you think could work on a better way, just let us know, and we can help coordinate with our executives and think of it, or apply it as soon as we see it fit. We see it fit, okay? But for now, yeah, I think, that’s a quick run-through of our recruitment process. Anything else to add, Utam?
370 00:42:27.340 ⇒ 00:42:29.370 Uttam Kumaran: No, any other thoughts, anybody?
371 00:42:31.990 ⇒ 00:42:33.039 Greg Stoutenburg: I think pro…
372 00:42:33.810 ⇒ 00:42:35.160 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s give it a go.
373 00:42:38.020 ⇒ 00:42:42.110 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think maybe my, my only, sorry, my only piece is, like.
374 00:42:42.110 ⇒ 00:42:45.790 Uttam Kumaran: If anyone has questions about the actual interview.
375 00:42:45.920 ⇒ 00:42:54.789 Uttam Kumaran: Itself, and, like, how to ask good questions, like, how do you build sort of a… like, how do you…
376 00:42:54.950 ⇒ 00:43:05.860 Uttam Kumaran: quickly try to build a picture of a candidate. Like, how do you start to align them to challenges that we face at Brainforge? Like, happy to share more about that. This was more about a process, but…
377 00:43:05.970 ⇒ 00:43:11.710 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy to do another meeting about just, like, how to conduct a great interview, how to actually
378 00:43:11.890 ⇒ 00:43:18.730 Uttam Kumaran: Like, ask, like, questions that sort of expose things versus just, like, Give me your background.
379 00:43:18.850 ⇒ 00:43:32.850 Uttam Kumaran: I know for some people who’ve been interviewing for a long time, it can be pretty easy, but, I think Amber, like, we… we went through this, you know, maybe, like, a year ago, and I know it was… it was helpful, so if anyone has questions about that, I’m happy to sort of share.
380 00:43:33.010 ⇒ 00:43:36.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
381 00:43:36.970 ⇒ 00:43:41.789 Pranav Narahari: Are there any past recorded interviews? Like, in the platform or something?
382 00:43:42.290 ⇒ 00:43:44.069 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we do, we do have a bunch.
383 00:43:44.280 ⇒ 00:43:48.559 Uttam Kumaran: We could try to find some that are, like, helpful to listen to.
384 00:43:49.140 ⇒ 00:43:49.740 Pranav Narahari: Cool.
385 00:43:50.440 ⇒ 00:43:51.070 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
386 00:43:51.340 ⇒ 00:43:59.700 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, again, like, do a couple. If you feel like you’re bombing them, like, you’re like, I left that and I have no idea how to feel, just call me.
387 00:43:59.860 ⇒ 00:44:01.270 Uttam Kumaran: And I’ll walk you through.
388 00:44:01.610 ⇒ 00:44:04.110 Uttam Kumaran: How to sort of, like, do a little bit of a retro.
389 00:44:06.150 ⇒ 00:44:19.739 Uttam Kumaran: But this is a muscle that I think we all, this crew especially, should start to gain, so I think it’s gonna be really helpful, especially because you guys are, like, the crew that’s gonna be managing, like, quite a bit of team, and work.
390 00:44:19.800 ⇒ 00:44:27.970 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I do want, as much as possible, for y’all to really try to… the only thing I’m going to try to stress is keep an extremely high bar.
391 00:44:28.210 ⇒ 00:44:32.100 Uttam Kumaran: I will send some, like, helpful…
392 00:44:32.310 ⇒ 00:44:36.050 Uttam Kumaran: Motivating recruitment blog posts into the channel.
393 00:44:37.730 ⇒ 00:44:49.770 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, our product is our people, and so if we bring on people that we’re not impressed by, or we’re not excited to work with every day, our clients will feel the same.
394 00:44:49.900 ⇒ 00:44:58.740 Uttam Kumaran: And so, that’s the only thing I’d recommend, and it’s just to keep a very, very high bar, and just to don’t worry about the consequ… there’s no consequence for that.
395 00:44:58.870 ⇒ 00:45:07.700 Uttam Kumaran: Because, like, there’s all these other checks and balances on this recruiting side. The moment we start letting in talent that drops the ball.
396 00:45:07.820 ⇒ 00:45:14.980 Uttam Kumaran: it’s gonna directly affect all of our lives, because this is the group that’s gonna pick up after everybody, and so that’s… that’s what I would just…
397 00:45:15.310 ⇒ 00:45:16.720 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I would stress.
398 00:45:19.460 ⇒ 00:45:21.349 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry, Sam, go ahead if you had anything.
399 00:45:21.350 ⇒ 00:45:29.850 Samuel Roberts: I was just wondering about the, like, the technical assessment stuff. Was that, like, kind of the thing that Awash and I had put together previously, or are we doing something different? What’s the…
400 00:45:29.850 ⇒ 00:45:39.389 Uttam Kumaran: No, I think the same thing, but I think maybe you and Pranav can just review that and make sure that you guys are comfortable with what that is for the AI team.
401 00:45:39.640 ⇒ 00:45:45.690 Uttam Kumaran: I think, Greg, Robert has put together the one for…
402 00:45:45.930 ⇒ 00:45:50.180 Uttam Kumaran: the strategy team, and then I can work with Awash on the one for the data team.
403 00:45:50.420 ⇒ 00:45:53.400 Uttam Kumaran: I think a presentation is, like, a great
404 00:45:54.040 ⇒ 00:45:57.189 Uttam Kumaran: Like, way of emulating sort of what we do for clients.
405 00:45:57.370 ⇒ 00:46:00.459 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of people are able to just rip through code or whatever, but…
406 00:46:00.940 ⇒ 00:46:07.860 Uttam Kumaran: actually being able to get your thoughts together and think about a solution, handle, like, questions, is good. Like, that’s what we do for work, so…
407 00:46:08.090 ⇒ 00:46:15.630 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s fair, and it’s… it’s easier, it’s good for everybody to sort of see those, and get a chance to be part of one of those, so…
408 00:46:19.460 ⇒ 00:46:20.100 Samuel Roberts: Cool.
409 00:46:25.530 ⇒ 00:46:26.310 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
410 00:46:28.870 ⇒ 00:46:32.650 Rico Rejoso: I guess that’s it, for now for the recruitment walkthrough.
411 00:46:33.480 ⇒ 00:46:45.239 Rico Rejoso: If any question, you guys are all added to the Reputting General Slack channel, feel free to send your questions or inquiries there, and with Tom and I will be more than happy to assist and help you out on any questions or concerns.
412 00:46:48.120 ⇒ 00:46:49.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Sounds good, thank you.
413 00:46:49.700 ⇒ 00:46:51.620 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you. Appreciate it, guys.
414 00:46:52.230 ⇒ 00:46:52.610 Pranav Narahari: Thanks, guys.
415 00:46:52.840 ⇒ 00:46:53.450 Uttam Kumaran: Talk to you soon.
416 00:46:53.450 ⇒ 00:46:54.090 Samuel Roberts: Thank you.
417 00:46:54.090 ⇒ 00:46:55.280 Demilade Agboola: Thanks, bye.