2025-12-29_delivery_strategy

Meeting Title: Delivery Strategy Date: 2025-12-29 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Clarence Stone, Robert Tseng

WEBVTT

1 00:01:25.250 ⇒ 00:01:26.430 Clarence Stone: What’s up?

2 00:01:27.070 ⇒ 00:01:27.950 Uttam Kumaran: Babe.

3 00:01:29.660 ⇒ 00:01:30.950 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?

4 00:01:31.810 ⇒ 00:01:36.800 Clarence Stone: Good! I’m just, taking everything we talked about and starting to put it in the document.

5 00:01:37.000 ⇒ 00:01:37.520 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

6 00:01:37.520 ⇒ 00:01:40.950 Clarence Stone: Instead of keeping it in the Excel, that’s, like, really freaking hard to read.

7 00:01:41.320 ⇒ 00:01:42.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

8 00:01:43.570 ⇒ 00:01:50.970 Clarence Stone: And I don’t know if you saw, I, like, priced out the total rewards of all the items that we were talking about, and… dude…

9 00:01:51.880 ⇒ 00:01:53.009 Clarence Stone: It’s a lot.

10 00:01:53.440 ⇒ 00:01:58.979 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I think it’s great. I mean, I wasn’t expecting it to be a small amount, so…

11 00:01:59.340 ⇒ 00:02:01.519 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s great. I mean…

12 00:02:01.870 ⇒ 00:02:11.269 Clarence Stone: Like, your person who’s making 30 bucks an hour has, like, a maximum… Total comp of 104.

13 00:02:11.460 ⇒ 00:02:12.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

14 00:02:12.720 ⇒ 00:02:14.030 Uttam Kumaran: It’s crazy.

15 00:02:14.030 ⇒ 00:02:15.700 Clarence Stone: That’s… that’s insane.

16 00:02:16.370 ⇒ 00:02:20.020 Clarence Stone: Like, you’re pretty much making 60 bucks an hour, then.

17 00:02:21.050 ⇒ 00:02:26.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, that’s why I guess I’ll hear… I’ll ask Robert what he thinks when he sees that, and what we should do.

18 00:02:26.890 ⇒ 00:02:33.859 Clarence Stone: Yeah, it… it… the sky is pretty high. The top side is high. What’s up?

19 00:02:33.860 ⇒ 00:02:35.970 Robert Tseng: Hey, Clarence. Hey, guys.

20 00:02:39.890 ⇒ 00:02:40.620 Robert Tseng: Oh.

21 00:02:40.640 ⇒ 00:02:41.969 Uttam Kumaran: I cut out… okay, there we go.

22 00:02:44.280 ⇒ 00:02:52.369 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. I don’t know, Clarence, where do you want to start? Like, we go through, I don’t know if I’m… how we arrange the day?

23 00:02:52.370 ⇒ 00:02:53.130 Clarence Stone: Yeah.

24 00:02:53.130 ⇒ 00:02:53.850 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

25 00:02:54.590 ⇒ 00:02:58.590 Clarence Stone: I mean, there’s so much to talk about for every single one of these tabs, so…

26 00:02:59.660 ⇒ 00:03:19.350 Clarence Stone: Robert, UTAM, like, created a agenda for the day, and we just started knocking out each one of those conversations, and the outcomes of those conversations are in these, like, Excel tabs in sequence. I moved a lot of it into, like, the write-up where it matters, and even put in some version language.

27 00:03:19.350 ⇒ 00:03:20.030 Robert Tseng: Okay.

28 00:03:20.590 ⇒ 00:03:25.519 Clarence Stone: But, I guess we’ll just go one by one, because there’s so much to talk about here.

29 00:03:25.720 ⇒ 00:03:26.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

30 00:03:26.040 ⇒ 00:03:27.790 Clarence Stone: As it is.

31 00:03:28.700 ⇒ 00:03:36.630 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so, so you’ll see the client column, we, we just pulled everything from operate, and then,

32 00:03:36.740 ⇒ 00:03:39.930 Clarence Stone: This is the current assignments, and…

33 00:03:40.410 ⇒ 00:03:47.530 Clarence Stone: the future for that same exact role. It’s a little hard to read, I’ll kind of color code these columns if it helps, but…

34 00:03:47.530 ⇒ 00:03:54.019 Robert Tseng: Yeah, all good. I think I read everything before getting on this call, so I… yeah, I think I get it.

35 00:03:59.420 ⇒ 00:04:14.099 Uttam Kumaran: So, I mean, my biggest takeaway here is, like, the CSO EPSL, this is sort of, like, mimicking what… it’s like, what is the current world? And then additionally, like,

36 00:04:14.720 ⇒ 00:04:24.910 Uttam Kumaran: there may be some roles, for example, like, Eden… Eden… there may be also some clients where me or you or multiple people are playing multiple roles.

37 00:04:24.910 ⇒ 00:04:25.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

38 00:04:25.360 ⇒ 00:04:32.449 Uttam Kumaran: So ideally, what we’re hoping for is that on any given client,

39 00:04:33.110 ⇒ 00:04:39.039 Uttam Kumaran: we have 3 people, which I think is fair, given that we’re gonna start to sort of price a little bit higher.

40 00:04:39.530 ⇒ 00:04:41.710 Uttam Kumaran: But…

41 00:04:42.080 ⇒ 00:04:46.989 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, any thoughts here? Like, I can continue to guide us towards a couple of decisions we need to make.

42 00:04:47.350 ⇒ 00:04:48.699 Uttam Kumaran: But, like.

43 00:04:49.710 ⇒ 00:05:01.660 Uttam Kumaran: Any thoughts as you saw this? Nicely, this allows us to look at where their gaps are, like, literally the gaps, which is great. I feel like we previously didn’t have, like, a super clear view.

44 00:05:01.810 ⇒ 00:05:08.829 Uttam Kumaran: Like, okay, what type of CSO do we need, right? Because right now, it’s clear that

45 00:05:09.870 ⇒ 00:05:15.669 Uttam Kumaran: I’m still on a couple of places where it’s clear we need a…

46 00:05:15.890 ⇒ 00:05:24.869 Uttam Kumaran: we need, like, a Jasmine type, right? It’s also clear that we do need a… we do need a Gabe, but then it’s also clear that, like, okay, Greg,

47 00:05:25.040 ⇒ 00:05:29.020 Uttam Kumaran: Greg’s only on one thing, like, Zaron’s only on one, so…

48 00:05:29.340 ⇒ 00:05:34.959 Uttam Kumaran: Are we gonna expand them? Do we expect them to take on some stuff in Q1?

49 00:05:35.090 ⇒ 00:05:41.839 Uttam Kumaran: So… Yeah, let me know your thoughts, or I can just guide us towards a couple of, like, discussions.

50 00:05:43.110 ⇒ 00:06:00.229 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think, this is the view that we wanted, you know, when we’re talking about… when I… when we talk about, like, planning allocations, like, across clients, like, this was, like, the high-level view we wanted to see across clients on, like, what are people’s roles on each client, and… and, I mean, now we kind of have, like, a…

51 00:06:00.320 ⇒ 00:06:06.489 Robert Tseng: current state, future state kind of thing. So, I mean, I mean, generally, like, this, this is, this is,

52 00:06:07.160 ⇒ 00:06:13.759 Robert Tseng: kind of… yeah, no surprises on kind of what we’ve listed out here. Like, I agree with kind of how it’s laid out, so…

53 00:06:14.510 ⇒ 00:06:18.339 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so then I think the first thing, probably, I’ll…

54 00:06:19.180 ⇒ 00:06:27.640 Uttam Kumaran: chat about is, like, what… I guess, what do we feel like is gonna happen with Insomnia and with README?

55 00:06:27.750 ⇒ 00:06:33.010 Uttam Kumaran: And then with urban stems, because right now, we’ve sort of just… like.

56 00:06:34.060 ⇒ 00:06:42.349 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, for README, we just have Greg and you. For Urban Sems, it’s sort of now just Demi and Awash.

57 00:06:42.940 ⇒ 00:06:52.030 Uttam Kumaran: and then for insomnia, We have… You twice, basically, Yeah, you know, so, like.

58 00:06:52.030 ⇒ 00:07:03.199 Robert Tseng: The way I view those, like, we’re calling it high versus low right now, but yeah, I mean, I would say, like, these clients are all, like, kind of in this, like, limbo state where we’re not sure what the next stage… what the next stage is.

59 00:07:03.250 ⇒ 00:07:18.700 Robert Tseng: it becomes, like, a pure account management play, where, like, yeah, with Insomnia, like, we have this, like, Snowflake thing that we could do with them, because the Snowflake guys weren’t… I mean, Holly’s trying to set up an event where they’re literally putting some Snowflake people and hosting

60 00:07:18.700 ⇒ 00:07:24.090 Robert Tseng: something at Insomni’s office, like, that might be the catalyst to kind of get us… get our foot back in the door.

61 00:07:24.090 ⇒ 00:07:42.789 Robert Tseng: obviously, the kind of deal… the deal kind of died for now, like, things aren’t really moving. And, you know, people in and out, I don’t really expect anything… like, I… you know, effectively, they’re done for now. Right. Kind of like Urban Stems. I still think it’s clear that, like, they need us around, and, like, there’s… I think there could be…

62 00:07:42.860 ⇒ 00:07:51.120 Robert Tseng: I think there’s a real shot at, like, a renewal, but, yeah, I think that’s… that’s just, like, you know, something we have to keep…

63 00:07:51.270 ⇒ 00:07:53.480 Robert Tseng: I mean, I have to keep pushing on…

64 00:07:53.480 ⇒ 00:07:53.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

65 00:07:53.950 ⇒ 00:08:13.780 Robert Tseng: you know, week to week. But yeah, I mean, effectively, like, our team is no longer kind of gonna be maintaining, like, right, the contract expires at this month, so we’re pretty much gonna shut… turn the lights off and let them flounder until they… until they want us… until they want us back, which is kind of the situation with Urban Stems right now, right?

66 00:08:13.900 ⇒ 00:08:25.949 Robert Tseng: And then, with README, I mean, it looks like they want to continue, like, Phoebe has accepted a couple things, but yeah, it’s kind of also like, okay, well, the contract is up, so we need to discuss renewal terms.

67 00:08:26.210 ⇒ 00:08:30.090 Robert Tseng: So, if they are going to take on Greg, yeah, I mean…

68 00:08:30.230 ⇒ 00:08:48.039 Robert Tseng: we’re not… we’re not gonna renew them at 5K a month. Like, the minimum has… for us, has been bumped up to $10, so… Yeah. Yeah, like, that’s… that’s pretty clear that, like, you know, we’re not signing anything that’s… that’s under 10. If they don’t… if they don’t, if they don’t get it at 10, then we can let them roll off, so…

69 00:08:48.270 ⇒ 00:08:48.820 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

70 00:08:48.820 ⇒ 00:09:05.459 Robert Tseng: yeah, they’re… you know, now that our mix, our client mix has changed, like, you know, our renewal minimums have changed. Like, I think 10 is kind of, like, our… is our floor now. That said, like, 10 is not necessarily our floor when we’re starting a new client. Like, I think we still need to have, like.

71 00:09:05.820 ⇒ 00:09:16.689 Robert Tseng: you know, we… I think our 5K minimum to start is still… is still fair, like, for, like, a first month, type of engagement, especially when it’s just, like, pure strategy or something, yeah.

72 00:09:16.690 ⇒ 00:09:20.940 Uttam Kumaran: Do you feel like we… like, do you feel like we should do…

73 00:09:21.430 ⇒ 00:09:25.900 Uttam Kumaran: a 5K client still with… I feel like we still would need these 3 roles.

74 00:09:26.920 ⇒ 00:09:30.680 Uttam Kumaran: And you just run it at… you just basically run it at cost.

75 00:09:31.380 ⇒ 00:09:37.530 Uttam Kumaran: Right, because why… I guess my debate would be, we shouldn’t take 5K clients unless we’re, like.

76 00:09:38.010 ⇒ 00:09:40.539 Uttam Kumaran: We see a path to them going up.

77 00:09:41.400 ⇒ 00:09:50.029 Uttam Kumaran: But, I don’t know, I feel like we’re getting a lot of support at 10, so, like, why even entertain the folks at 5? Like, why leave that open?

78 00:09:50.240 ⇒ 00:09:53.379 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I’m just highlighting these. You know, this is still…

79 00:09:53.560 ⇒ 00:09:56.860 Robert Tseng: All of these started off at, like, something around 5K.

80 00:09:57.160 ⇒ 00:09:58.339 Uttam Kumaran: Totally, totally, yeah.

81 00:09:58.340 ⇒ 00:09:58.930 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

82 00:09:59.130 ⇒ 00:10:01.150 Robert Tseng: So… Like…

83 00:10:01.150 ⇒ 00:10:09.380 Uttam Kumaran: So if there’s a sales case to be made, then… We’re okay with it, okay.

84 00:10:09.380 ⇒ 00:10:28.649 Robert Tseng: I think we’re still… I mean, it’s obvious, like, like, I don’t know, like, for… we… the… our idea of, like, going in and growing an account, like, that’s… I think that’s very much part of our motion. Obviously, like, those are the ones that we want to be going for are more like this, that start at a higher…

85 00:10:28.680 ⇒ 00:10:41.389 Robert Tseng: higher ticket. So, I think this is something I’ve been thinking through on the sales side, which I’ll… I can cover up on my piece, but we’re gonna have a mix of, you know, folks that start off as a CES element Hedra.

86 00:10:41.390 ⇒ 00:10:51.349 Robert Tseng: I mean, these are all partner-driven leads, right? And they come in warm, warm lead, and we’re able to pretty much just charge at a higher price, because it meets the time.

87 00:10:51.420 ⇒ 00:11:04.600 Robert Tseng: like, the timing is good, and then we also have just, like, a good intro into these, into these clients. All the other ones, like Default, ABC, Eden, like, yeah, I mean, maybe, you know, ABC, Scott helped… helps, kind of.

88 00:11:04.840 ⇒ 00:11:18.829 Robert Tseng: put in a word for us, you know, default, maybe you got, like, a… but those weren’t, like, very strong intros either. Like, we basically had to, like, start from scratch with them, and Eden was obviously just start from scratch, so… Yeah. I still think that there is a world where we’re gonna be

89 00:11:19.010 ⇒ 00:11:28.009 Robert Tseng: we’re not gonna get that warm intro, but we still gotta… we still have the opportunity to go in and grow an account. So, yeah, like, I…

90 00:11:28.090 ⇒ 00:11:41.469 Robert Tseng: like, I think, like, the CES element and Hedra is, like, we’ll keep getting those as we grow our partner motion. But, like, yeah, our, like, the go-to-market motion that we control.

91 00:11:41.740 ⇒ 00:11:50.079 Robert Tseng: that’s not partner… not necessarily partner-driven is probably going to look more like the ABC default meetings, and whatever, Heidi Singer, so…

92 00:11:50.380 ⇒ 00:11:55.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s… that’s why… I mean, that’s how I kind of see it right now.

93 00:11:55.600 ⇒ 00:11:59.980 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I just… for me, the biggest thing is, like, let’s take, like, a breezy.

94 00:11:59.980 ⇒ 00:12:00.780 Robert Tseng: Yep.

95 00:12:02.210 ⇒ 00:12:08.660 Uttam Kumaran: I just want us to… it’s almost helpful for me to understand what we’re gonna say no to.

96 00:12:08.660 ⇒ 00:12:09.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

97 00:12:09.480 ⇒ 00:12:13.709 Uttam Kumaran: Because then it allows us to just stop having conversations with, like…

98 00:12:14.080 ⇒ 00:12:16.879 Uttam Kumaran: the 5K is more for me, like…

99 00:12:17.090 ⇒ 00:12:25.089 Uttam Kumaran: okay, we’re just now bigger, like, we… what is our minimum floor for running a client? Is going to be these 3 roles.

100 00:12:25.340 ⇒ 00:12:28.489 Uttam Kumaran: What is the minimum amount we can do to afford those?

101 00:12:28.640 ⇒ 00:12:31.889 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, sales can always, like, discount it, but…

102 00:12:32.520 ⇒ 00:12:37.799 Uttam Kumaran: for me, it’s like, I don’t think we can run a great Brainforge client at that rate anymore.

103 00:12:39.280 ⇒ 00:12:50.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I mean, I think at that rate, we can’t have… like, I wouldn’t… can Demi run, like, a 5K client? Like, for Greg, sure, I think a starting product analytics client…

104 00:12:50.960 ⇒ 00:13:03.269 Robert Tseng: He gets one month to kind of figure it out with the client, and then he can basically try to bump… bump them up. Like, I think that makes sense. Like, can… can, like, can Demi do that? Like, I don’t… I don’t know.

105 00:13:03.270 ⇒ 00:13:10.800 Uttam Kumaran: So I guess this is where the… well, I mean, one of the questions we have is, like,

106 00:13:11.730 ⇒ 00:13:19.130 Uttam Kumaran: For… for these folks, Yeah, like, some of them are not the people that we…

107 00:13:19.270 ⇒ 00:13:24.610 Uttam Kumaran: like, I don’t think… I don’t think all of them fit all the criteria for CSO, it’s just what we have.

108 00:13:24.700 ⇒ 00:13:25.560 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Right.

109 00:13:25.760 ⇒ 00:13:29.509 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, a Demi is one where I told Clarence, I don’t know whether

110 00:13:29.940 ⇒ 00:13:33.039 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna have to go confirm whether he wants this.

111 00:13:33.960 ⇒ 00:13:37.590 Uttam Kumaran: But then I would like him to… that’s who we have right now, right?

112 00:13:37.590 ⇒ 00:13:38.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

113 00:13:39.220 ⇒ 00:13:40.879 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay, I mean, like, people aside, like.

114 00:13:40.880 ⇒ 00:13:42.490 Clarence Stone: Suggestion on the pricing thing?

115 00:13:42.770 ⇒ 00:13:43.540 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry?

116 00:13:43.540 ⇒ 00:13:45.619 Clarence Stone: Can I throw in a suggestion on the pricing thing?

117 00:13:45.620 ⇒ 00:13:46.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

118 00:13:46.460 ⇒ 00:14:05.669 Clarence Stone: So, there, like, there’s so much power in just being able to have access to the organization to begin with, so maybe, like, part of the narrative on anything that’s less than a $10,000 engagement is saying that we are in an assessment mode, where we’re assessing you and what we can deliver for you.

119 00:14:05.670 ⇒ 00:14:13.350 Clarence Stone: Right? And if you put it in that way, you can kind of have an excuse to look at any of their systems or any of their data sets, right? Yeah.

120 00:14:13.350 ⇒ 00:14:34.800 Clarence Stone: a time box, it may be, and say, like, within 90 days, we’re gonna come back with a report on all the things that we can do, and the expected ROIs next to it, and maybe you’ll build one of them for goodwill. It depends, right, on the difficulty, but at the end of that, you’ll say, okay, this is a direct ROI of everything that we can build for you. The price is no longer $5,000.

121 00:14:35.800 ⇒ 00:14:36.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

122 00:14:36.970 ⇒ 00:14:40.190 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that’s kind of how we’ve been running the 5K engagements, like.

123 00:14:40.220 ⇒ 00:15:03.610 Robert Tseng: very limited hours. We’ve never spent, like… I feel like those are our highest margin, like, projects. Like, we run them at, like, 10 to 15 hours, and then, yeah, it’s just kind of a go or no go on the next phase, right? And usually, like, we kind of give them a one-month timeline, but, like, we’re already… our mind is already made up within the first one to two weeks on, like, whether or not there’s, like, an opportunity for us to keep going.

124 00:15:03.610 ⇒ 00:15:07.269 Robert Tseng: I, I think.

125 00:15:07.490 ⇒ 00:15:11.169 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess I would… my… my… my point there is, like.

126 00:15:11.990 ⇒ 00:15:16.030 Uttam Kumaran: There is a… there’s… we can only fit people into, like, 3…

127 00:15:16.550 ⇒ 00:15:29.649 Uttam Kumaran: into probably, like, 3 or 4 work streams max, right? Like, so we see some people who are here on a lot, but it’s not by design, it’s just who we have. So even having an additional insomnia

128 00:15:29.910 ⇒ 00:15:38.040 Uttam Kumaran: like, there’s two things. One, like, higher margin, but I know that we’re not… like, we haven’t built enough to CES to default.

129 00:15:38.500 ⇒ 00:15:39.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

130 00:15:39.100 ⇒ 00:15:44.309 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so there’s something to be said there. Second is just, it’s… it is, like.

131 00:15:44.590 ⇒ 00:15:48.390 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just another one that we have to manage, so it’s just… it is another…

132 00:15:49.450 ⇒ 00:15:52.029 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just another client to think about, and so…

133 00:15:52.220 ⇒ 00:15:57.940 Uttam Kumaran: I get that it is small, but what is the minimum delivery support needed, is what I’m thinking about.

134 00:15:58.260 ⇒ 00:15:58.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

135 00:16:01.640 ⇒ 00:16:21.599 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, let’s just… let’s just… let’s just take Breezy. I guess I’m not… maybe… I mean, I’m just… let’s just wrong with this example, because, like, to me, this is, like, net new client, the scope is, like, somewhat defined, we’re gonna need some sort of discovery. I mean, yeah, maybe it’s more, like, analytics engineering than it is, like, any sort of product analytics strategy or Martech strategy.

136 00:16:21.600 ⇒ 00:16:22.460 Uttam Kumaran: For now.

137 00:16:23.220 ⇒ 00:16:23.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

138 00:16:23.770 ⇒ 00:16:27.999 Robert Tseng: for the first part. But yeah, it’s pretty much, like, you would expect Demi to go in, kind of.

139 00:16:29.230 ⇒ 00:16:33.190 Robert Tseng: Kind of get the lay of the land, figure things out, and we would follow up, like.

140 00:16:33.190 ⇒ 00:16:34.040 Uttam Kumaran: I guess…

141 00:16:34.120 ⇒ 00:16:38.389 Robert Tseng: you know, I don’t know, in the traditional sense of, like,

142 00:16:39.710 ⇒ 00:16:52.080 Robert Tseng: There’s this discovery period, it’s 2-4 weeks, and then we’re going to basically follow up with them on a 3-month-plus kind of engagement, right? Like, is that the stage that they’re in right now? Is that… is that…

143 00:16:52.430 ⇒ 00:17:06.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, we… I could… we could totally do the… I mean, I was gonna pitch them on, like… basically, they have us… they want us to discover… there’s, like, two clear work streams, maybe a third, so we’re a.

144 00:17:06.220 ⇒ 00:17:15.850 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I remember they had… they were a bit more organized than some of the other clients, like, I… they may not even… like, yeah, I would say if they have, like, some more defined scope, we wouldn’t start them at the 5K. I think the 5K…

145 00:17:15.859 ⇒ 00:17:19.609 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, and I’m not, yeah. We’re gonna start them at least at 15 grand.

146 00:17:19.609 ⇒ 00:17:27.369 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, so, like, I think this is, like, a different situation. This is probably more like the… the hydra, or the elements kind of situation.

147 00:17:27.770 ⇒ 00:17:30.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, they came in a bit… they became a bit more defined.

148 00:17:30.870 ⇒ 00:17:31.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

149 00:17:31.330 ⇒ 00:17:36.899 Uttam Kumaran: Like, a good example would be, like, John Booze. Like, if that ends up coming back…

150 00:17:37.100 ⇒ 00:17:37.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

151 00:17:37.500 ⇒ 00:17:43.829 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t… I don’t know if… how… I’m not willing to spend another 3 meetings scoping. I’m gonna basically…

152 00:17:43.830 ⇒ 00:17:44.890 Robert Tseng: Totally not, yeah.

153 00:17:44.890 ⇒ 00:17:47.180 Uttam Kumaran: Signed a discovery agreement with us.

154 00:17:47.180 ⇒ 00:17:47.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

155 00:17:47.900 ⇒ 00:17:48.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

156 00:17:49.450 ⇒ 00:18:03.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I think, like, at the different price points, there’s something just to be said about, like, kind of deal velocity as well, which I’m trying to factor into our, like, Q1 go-to-market, like, OKRs, because we weren’t really tracking this diligently before.

157 00:18:03.110 ⇒ 00:18:21.609 Robert Tseng: I think, like, conceptually, I was thinking active leads, like, net new pipeline, and, like, kind of looking at the number of, like, dollars that were, like, kind of potential dollar that was kind of coming in week to week, but then we just had deals that just kind of sat there for weeks, and, like, it’s kind of like, yeah, if we put, you know, put simply, it’s like.

158 00:18:21.610 ⇒ 00:18:25.949 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if we pitched Jean Boost at 15K and they just kind of stalled.

159 00:18:26.230 ⇒ 00:18:26.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

160 00:18:26.720 ⇒ 00:18:33.519 Robert Tseng: it’s like, okay, well, what if we just did 5K signed now, just get us in the door, and, like, we’ll… and then we can, like, that’s.

161 00:18:33.520 ⇒ 00:18:33.870 Uttam Kumaran: 10.

162 00:18:33.870 ⇒ 00:18:46.280 Robert Tseng: it, to them, may feel like a bit of a discount, it might get them to make the decision faster, but that helps us. I’d rather do a 5K, like, just having one dude, like, on there, just kind of figuring things out.

163 00:18:46.390 ⇒ 00:19:02.719 Robert Tseng: For the first two to four weeks. That’s why I feel like that level of engagement is pretty low-lift. We only need one person, like, one or two people. Like, ideally, it’s just, like, one tech… senior technical person. So, like, Greg can go in and kind of did what he did with README. Like, I think…

164 00:19:02.720 ⇒ 00:19:12.739 Robert Tseng: his one or two weeks on README was what I had wanted from a product analytics person for the longest time, but we just didn’t have that. Or, like, Zuron, doing that for,

165 00:19:12.900 ⇒ 00:19:26.400 Robert Tseng: what was that other health company called? But yeah, I mean, that ended up being, like, 15K out of that other client that was kind of disorganized, but they just needed him to go in, look around. He set up, like, one thing for them. Yeah. Like.

166 00:19:26.400 ⇒ 00:19:35.259 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I got… and then we basically were like, oh, Ellie. It’s like, Ellie, great, like, you know, they did 5, and then 10K, and it’s like, okay, if they’re gonna renew with us, we’re…

167 00:19:35.260 ⇒ 00:19:41.009 Robert Tseng: it’s gonna be 10K or nothing, so, like, we’re kind of in that situation with them.

168 00:19:41.670 ⇒ 00:19:46.500 Uttam Kumaran: So then for… for… yeah, so then I would say for that, we should think about at 5K,

169 00:19:46.650 ⇒ 00:19:51.630 Uttam Kumaran: Is there even… Is there just, like, a CSO, basically?

170 00:19:51.800 ⇒ 00:19:52.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.

171 00:19:53.850 ⇒ 00:19:56.179 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. That’s just what I want to know.

172 00:19:57.810 ⇒ 00:20:03.330 Robert Tseng: I think the CSO, and then, like, you know, if they need, like, something that’s a little bit more involved, like…

173 00:20:04.400 ⇒ 00:20:07.949 Uttam Kumaran: You could always add people, but I just want to think about, like…

174 00:20:08.130 ⇒ 00:20:08.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

175 00:20:09.560 ⇒ 00:20:12.719 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, at minimum, what are we allowing?

176 00:20:12.720 ⇒ 00:20:17.650 Robert Tseng: Yeah, for these 3 roles, yeah, at minimum, it’s just a CSO for a 5K engagement.

177 00:20:17.650 ⇒ 00:20:20.990 Uttam Kumaran: And then maybe it’s, like, if it’s, like, a 10K plus, then…

178 00:20:20.990 ⇒ 00:20:26.900 Robert Tseng: that maybe it’s just two folks, but then if it’s, like, a 20K plus, then we have all 3 or something, like, I don’t know.

179 00:20:26.900 ⇒ 00:20:33.430 Uttam Kumaran: The service lead role is the one that scales, because that’s more of just, like, Already, what?

180 00:20:34.160 ⇒ 00:20:36.350 Uttam Kumaran: Oasis doing, and you’re doing, which is.

181 00:20:36.350 ⇒ 00:20:36.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

182 00:20:36.700 ⇒ 00:20:38.410 Uttam Kumaran: Uber and running stand-ups.

183 00:20:38.410 ⇒ 00:20:43.959 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s only really when we have multiple work streams on a client do we actually meet best sell, in my opinion.

184 00:20:44.190 ⇒ 00:20:45.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay.

185 00:20:46.750 ⇒ 00:20:57.240 Uttam Kumaran: And also, again, like, this is where, if you… the person… if a client’s going well, then it can be run by those first two. Yeah, totally. And really, stand-up is just, like, what’s going wrong? Yeah, yeah.

186 00:20:59.600 ⇒ 00:21:00.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

187 00:21:06.930 ⇒ 00:21:13.660 Clarence Stone: I’m just gonna call it opportunity size, if you guys can give me a quick perspective of that, we can actually clean this up even more.

188 00:21:13.660 ⇒ 00:21:20.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. Really, the top… The top, 7 are high opportunities.

189 00:21:20.690 ⇒ 00:21:21.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

190 00:21:22.500 ⇒ 00:21:27.720 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not sure yet about Lilo and Magic Spoon.

191 00:21:29.130 ⇒ 00:21:31.730 Uttam Kumaran: And then Hedra and Honey Stinger are small.

192 00:21:32.150 ⇒ 00:21:36.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t think Honey Stinger would go above 10, but, like, yeah, so…

193 00:21:48.100 ⇒ 00:21:50.989 Clarence Stone: Wait, did you say Lilio and Magic Spoon were higher, or…

194 00:21:51.820 ⇒ 00:21:53.780 Clarence Stone: Small or large, sorry.

195 00:21:55.670 ⇒ 00:21:57.490 Robert Tseng: We said we weren’t sure, so, yeah.

196 00:21:57.490 ⇒ 00:21:59.030 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I was wearing shirts, yeah.

197 00:21:59.030 ⇒ 00:22:04.730 Clarence Stone: Yeah. And Remo’s just, like, on its own thing with surf on it.

198 00:22:04.880 ⇒ 00:22:11.359 Robert Tseng: Well, I guess we have, like, 3 things separated out here, but really, this is all just part of one big Eden thing, so now. So…

199 00:22:12.010 ⇒ 00:22:17.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah, Remo is, like… I mean, I understand that…

200 00:22:18.770 ⇒ 00:22:28.789 Robert Tseng: Like, yeah, I don’t know why, I guess… I can understand… I get why we split up Eden into three clients, but really, like, we’re trying to, like, run it as one, right?

201 00:22:28.790 ⇒ 00:22:31.979 Uttam Kumaran: Well, where the… well, the client doesn’t necess… well, like.

202 00:22:32.350 ⇒ 00:22:38.539 Uttam Kumaran: This is the thing, I don’t… can you… can… can Zoran be the CSO on the strategy, like, Workstream?

203 00:22:38.540 ⇒ 00:22:39.890 Robert Tseng: No, you can’t.

204 00:22:39.890 ⇒ 00:22:44.660 Uttam Kumaran: And then Orc and Jasmine end up running Martech? Maybe.

205 00:22:44.660 ⇒ 00:22:46.680 Robert Tseng: Maybe, but I don’t… I doubt it.

206 00:22:46.680 ⇒ 00:22:52.159 Uttam Kumaran: So I would, yeah, I’m totally willing to collapse. Again, the assignments are really just, like.

207 00:22:52.160 ⇒ 00:22:53.830 Robert Tseng: It’s based off the work streams, okay.

208 00:22:53.830 ⇒ 00:22:54.550 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

209 00:22:54.820 ⇒ 00:22:58.340 Robert Tseng: Okay, that’s why you have ABC Andy and ABC Strategy. Yeah, yeah, okay.

210 00:22:58.340 ⇒ 00:22:59.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

211 00:22:59.090 ⇒ 00:23:00.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah, then… yeah, then it’s like…

212 00:23:00.870 ⇒ 00:23:07.100 Uttam Kumaran: Once, like, if we have a strategy CSO, then she starts to fill in where your name is.

213 00:23:07.100 ⇒ 00:23:07.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

214 00:23:07.660 ⇒ 00:23:12.650 Uttam Kumaran: And then, most likely, that person should also start to come in where my name is.

215 00:23:12.650 ⇒ 00:23:16.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, okay. And, like, right now, so, right now, the big point is that.

216 00:23:16.920 ⇒ 00:23:25.159 Uttam Kumaran: we don’t have an analytics engineering CSO. We just have Debbie. Yep. Right? But this is where, like, my question is gonna be, like.

217 00:23:25.160 ⇒ 00:23:26.100 Robert Tseng: Ashrini?

218 00:23:26.830 ⇒ 00:23:32.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, Ashwini is gonna start as EP, and then I can… Try to push him there.

219 00:23:32.600 ⇒ 00:23:38.739 Uttam Kumaran: Or, again, we’re putting away should all the SLs, but right now, yeah, it’s just 3 of them and me, right? So…

220 00:23:38.740 ⇒ 00:23:40.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay.

221 00:23:47.850 ⇒ 00:23:51.409 Clarence Stone: Robert, my take on having those separate CSOs was also…

222 00:23:51.590 ⇒ 00:23:58.600 Clarence Stone: Because you would be communicating with somebody different at the company for each one of these projects.

223 00:23:58.600 ⇒ 00:23:59.249 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you got it.

224 00:23:59.510 ⇒ 00:24:05.809 Clarence Stone: you, Tom. I was like, are you gonna talk to somebody different each one? Then yeah, like, you should have 3 CSOs.

225 00:24:05.810 ⇒ 00:24:06.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

226 00:24:08.650 ⇒ 00:24:09.420 Robert Tseng: Okay.

227 00:24:10.750 ⇒ 00:24:16.930 Uttam Kumaran: So, can we move the 3 low ones just down? Yeah, whatever.

228 00:24:18.540 ⇒ 00:24:24.239 Clarence Stone: I think you can just drag it, dude, actually. Can I? Is this, like, the… oh my gosh, this is so amazing.

229 00:24:25.420 ⇒ 00:24:27.379 Clarence Stone: You know, Excel doesn’t have this.

230 00:24:27.380 ⇒ 00:24:28.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

231 00:24:28.010 ⇒ 00:24:29.119 Clarence Stone: Oh my gosh.

232 00:24:35.540 ⇒ 00:24:44.120 Robert Tseng: Yeah, this is also interesting to me, like, TBD, it’s like, okay, once we’ve qualified them to maybe, like, yeah, they’re small, like, I think…

233 00:24:44.540 ⇒ 00:24:47.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we have to figure that out quickly.

234 00:24:48.260 ⇒ 00:24:51.619 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s just TBD on Magic Spoon, because it’s… they just… we…

235 00:24:51.620 ⇒ 00:24:52.479 Robert Tseng: No, no, I…

236 00:24:52.480 ⇒ 00:24:54.710 Uttam Kumaran: Garda, and then Lilo, yeah, yeah.

237 00:24:54.710 ⇒ 00:25:12.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah, because, you know, I think that definitely changes, like, how we think about it, right? You know, how much brainpower… like, Honey Stinger, yeah, they’re small, budget-wise, but as a business, like, they should be bigger. Like, I mean, yeah, they are small currently, but, I mean, I think there’s… yeah, I wonder, like, how frequently we.

238 00:25:12.260 ⇒ 00:25:18.060 Uttam Kumaran: But naturally, like, what is our client mix? Like, we want… I want to turn CES…

239 00:25:18.190 ⇒ 00:25:21.549 Uttam Kumaran: to, like, an Excel. We should turn Element to an XL.

240 00:25:21.550 ⇒ 00:25:22.280 Robert Tseng: Sure.

241 00:25:22.790 ⇒ 00:25:23.600 Uttam Kumaran: Alright.

242 00:25:23.960 ⇒ 00:25:24.590 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

243 00:25:25.740 ⇒ 00:25:31.839 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, there’s gotta be something about, like, based off of the client’s, like, size dealer reference, right? Like, I think, like.

244 00:25:32.020 ⇒ 00:25:32.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

245 00:25:33.040 ⇒ 00:25:43.549 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, it’s, like, unfortunate that insomnia is small right now, or low, but, like, it’s, you know, it should be bigger, but maybe that’s just… we’ve run into that, so,

246 00:25:44.160 ⇒ 00:25:46.900 Robert Tseng: I don’t… I… do we have to…

247 00:25:48.020 ⇒ 00:25:50.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we can think about how to better…

248 00:25:51.160 ⇒ 00:25:59.649 Robert Tseng: talk about opportunity size. Like, one factor… one input has to be, like, the size of the client, like, the actual revenue, and then another one is, like, kind of…

249 00:25:59.800 ⇒ 00:26:16.479 Robert Tseng: like, some weighted scoring from our side, like, what… how… how, like, how much of a foothold do we really have in that organization and ability to expand with them? So… because sometimes, like, the client will just be really big, but it’ll just be really hard to get out of our lane and grow more.

250 00:26:16.480 ⇒ 00:26:17.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

251 00:26:17.010 ⇒ 00:26:17.600 Robert Tseng: react.

252 00:26:20.940 ⇒ 00:26:22.419 Uttam Kumaran: So, I guess let’s…

253 00:26:22.680 ⇒ 00:26:29.760 Uttam Kumaran: now that I think, kind of feel good about these, let’s just… do we feel good about these, this assignment?

254 00:26:32.760 ⇒ 00:26:37.150 Uttam Kumaran: Basically, what this is doing is, like, pushing me out of here a little bit.

255 00:26:38.690 ⇒ 00:26:49.349 Uttam Kumaran: This is… Yeah, I mean, and then just kind of pushing Demi here, too.

256 00:26:49.350 ⇒ 00:26:53.250 Robert Tseng: pushed you out of default in Magic Spoon, or like, in, yeah, just getting a dead meat.

257 00:26:53.250 ⇒ 00:27:00.399 Uttam Kumaran: Which is… which is great, yeah. And then… and then explicitly getting, basically getting approval from Demi on that he wants to do this.

258 00:27:00.650 ⇒ 00:27:01.829 Uttam Kumaran: The next… Yeah.

259 00:27:01.990 ⇒ 00:27:04.339 Uttam Kumaran: Future, this is where this is, like.

260 00:27:04.570 ⇒ 00:27:09.789 Uttam Kumaran: So let’s… let’s talk about future after. So the next EP role is, like.

261 00:27:10.480 ⇒ 00:27:14.479 Uttam Kumaran: Amber, Ashwini, Mustafa, it’s sort of all the stragglers.

262 00:27:14.690 ⇒ 00:27:15.280 Robert Tseng: Yep.

263 00:27:15.280 ⇒ 00:27:20.899 Uttam Kumaran: Basically, this is where you start somebody. There’ll still be people that are icy, like Seism, Henry.

264 00:27:20.900 ⇒ 00:27:21.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

265 00:27:21.900 ⇒ 00:27:33.809 Uttam Kumaran: there’s, like, ICs. Everybody else here who’s, like, these are all, like, trusted people, they’re gonna start here. Naturally, these folks have to move here or move here. And ideally, we need this.

266 00:27:33.960 ⇒ 00:27:36.620 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we need some of these people to move here.

267 00:27:36.620 ⇒ 00:27:37.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

268 00:27:37.480 ⇒ 00:27:40.689 Uttam Kumaran: The… I think Amber, of course, is fine.

269 00:27:40.690 ⇒ 00:27:42.479 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Sweeney’s fine.

270 00:27:42.700 ⇒ 00:27:49.639 Uttam Kumaran: I think Mustaf, Pranav, and Casey, them taking on more stuff here, is fine, okay.

271 00:27:50.190 ⇒ 00:27:54.640 Uttam Kumaran: So basically, I just want to put them in charge of that, and sort of see where they want to grow.

272 00:27:57.580 ⇒ 00:28:00.370 Uttam Kumaran: like, this is… I mean, Pranava Square, like…

273 00:28:00.370 ⇒ 00:28:04.909 Robert Tseng: KC can do it, I mean, just… I feel like KC… I mean, I haven’t worked with him too closely, but…

274 00:28:05.090 ⇒ 00:28:10.199 Robert Tseng: is a little bit unreliable, in my opinion. Like, he’s got one thing to maintain on Insomnia, and it just…

275 00:28:10.320 ⇒ 00:28:12.760 Robert Tseng: He’ll, like, just check out and then just…

276 00:28:13.140 ⇒ 00:28:16.909 Robert Tseng: like, doesn’t tell anybody. I don’t know, like, it just kind of… kinda feels…

277 00:28:17.570 ⇒ 00:28:22.960 Robert Tseng: I mean, he feels like an IC to me. Like, I don’t know if he really wants to do this stuff, but maybe you’ve talked to him already.

278 00:28:23.930 ⇒ 00:28:26.250 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m… I’m not,

279 00:28:27.690 ⇒ 00:28:31.639 Uttam Kumaran: I just think there’s no, like, there’s no… there…

280 00:28:32.310 ⇒ 00:28:42.040 Uttam Kumaran: for the folks that are here, they have to play a role, like, I just don’t see one of them not being asked to go do this EP work. I guess you’re right, it’s like, can he do it?

281 00:28:43.060 ⇒ 00:28:45.230 Robert Tseng: Mustafa, for sure. Like, I, I, you know, I…

282 00:28:45.230 ⇒ 00:28:57.230 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we’re gonna… I’m just gonna… I’m just gonna find out, because… Okay. Because I… what I want, and this is where it’s actually… the way this is gonna be built, is these people are going to be pissed if these people don’t do their job.

283 00:28:57.670 ⇒ 00:29:01.320 Uttam Kumaran: And so Zoran will tell us if he’s not getting the support here.

284 00:29:01.590 ⇒ 00:29:02.210 Robert Tseng: Okay.

285 00:29:03.460 ⇒ 00:29:11.869 Uttam Kumaran: You know? Because this is a person who’s, like, running the client-facing stuff, but this is, like, making sure linear tickets and Gantt charts are set up.

286 00:29:12.140 ⇒ 00:29:12.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean…

287 00:29:12.960 ⇒ 00:29:13.380 Uttam Kumaran: So, like.

288 00:29:13.380 ⇒ 00:29:24.709 Robert Tseng: really, realistically, like, right now, the EP for Zoran is Ashwini, on Eden, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, he partnered… yeah, he’s pretty much just working with Ashwini on day-to-day.

289 00:29:25.090 ⇒ 00:29:28.690 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah. Then I wouldn’t… then I would just.

290 00:29:29.080 ⇒ 00:29:30.769 Uttam Kumaran: get rid of Casey here.

291 00:29:31.040 ⇒ 00:29:31.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

292 00:29:32.590 ⇒ 00:29:34.250 Uttam Kumaran: So, Clarence, let’s do that.

293 00:29:34.490 ⇒ 00:29:35.240 Clarence Stone: Got it.

294 00:29:38.270 ⇒ 00:29:42.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great.

295 00:29:42.130 ⇒ 00:29:45.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah, Ashwini onboarded onto Eden very quickly. I mean…

296 00:29:45.660 ⇒ 00:29:55.140 Uttam Kumaran: He’s good, I just, like, yeah, I’m gonna… I want… I need to figure out, Clarence, where he wants to go. Yeah. Ideally, he says here, and then we’ll… he’ll save.

297 00:29:55.440 ⇒ 00:29:57.339 Clarence Stone: They’ll save Debbie a bit.

298 00:29:57.670 ⇒ 00:29:58.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

299 00:29:58.240 ⇒ 00:30:02.009 Clarence Stone: So, Ashwini’s been on, Eden Strategy, too, so I’ll…

300 00:30:02.010 ⇒ 00:30:02.560 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

301 00:30:02.560 ⇒ 00:30:04.310 Clarence Stone: Yeah. Cool.

302 00:30:05.660 ⇒ 00:30:07.920 Clarence Stone: Oh, he’s got a lot now, though.

303 00:30:08.600 ⇒ 00:30:09.899 Robert Tseng: Is he full-time with us?

304 00:30:12.960 ⇒ 00:30:20.300 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t even… he’s… I think he… he now… now that he’s on CES and this, he’s billing close to, like, yeah, 30-something hours.

305 00:30:20.300 ⇒ 00:30:21.050 Robert Tseng: Okay.

306 00:30:23.290 ⇒ 00:30:31.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I feel like he’s, bumping up with Demi, like, kind of, they’re… to me, they’re at, like, kind of same, similar level, and he’s kind of just eating, eating more scope, yeah.

307 00:30:32.800 ⇒ 00:30:39.769 Uttam Kumaran: So this is where I think with… the reason why maybe Clarence, like, put Casey down is because Ashwini probably has a lot.

308 00:30:39.940 ⇒ 00:30:45.270 Clarence Stone: Yeah, he does now. So he’s got Magic Spoon, Eden, Element.

309 00:30:45.730 ⇒ 00:30:48.410 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I just need to get us another data person.

310 00:30:50.720 ⇒ 00:30:52.599 Uttam Kumaran: Right, because otherwise, I was like…

311 00:30:52.600 ⇒ 00:30:53.440 Clarence Stone: treat that?

312 00:30:54.170 ⇒ 00:30:59.099 Uttam Kumaran: Well, Casey and Mustafa are not, like, they’re not data, they’re more AI engineers.

313 00:30:59.480 ⇒ 00:31:04.059 Uttam Kumaran: they can come on and do it, but, like, I wouldn’t see… I would not put Casey on Element.

314 00:31:04.330 ⇒ 00:31:05.060 Clarence Stone: Okay.

315 00:31:06.030 ⇒ 00:31:08.520 Robert Tseng: Why is Amber not here?

316 00:31:10.550 ⇒ 00:31:20.000 Uttam Kumaran: Because the client is not… we’re not doing strategy work for them, right? We’re not doing…

317 00:31:20.460 ⇒ 00:31:24.830 Uttam Kumaran: We’re modeling all the… we’re modeling… we’re doing a lot of modeling and data ingestion.

318 00:31:26.400 ⇒ 00:31:30.849 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Weren’t we thinking about pulling Greg into that? .

319 00:31:30.850 ⇒ 00:31:33.459 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s, that’s, that’s here, yeah.

320 00:31:33.460 ⇒ 00:31:38.520 Robert Tseng: Oh, right, right, I see. Okay, cool. But yeah, okay, for that current… for the existing, what, like…

321 00:31:38.630 ⇒ 00:31:44.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s why Amber and Sezim are, like, here.

322 00:31:45.020 ⇒ 00:31:48.210 Uttam Kumaran: And Amber is on ABC Strategy with me.

323 00:31:49.020 ⇒ 00:31:50.370 Uttam Kumaran: And on Honey Stinger.

324 00:31:51.880 ⇒ 00:31:56.699 Robert Tseng: Well, is CES both strategy and DE? Should there be two rows for CES?

325 00:31:57.740 ⇒ 00:32:02.320 Uttam Kumaran: CES is gonna… it’s, at least for now, it’s gonna be…

326 00:32:03.990 ⇒ 00:32:04.810 Robert Tseng: Like, I think we’re all.

327 00:32:04.810 ⇒ 00:32:05.770 Uttam Kumaran: We’re, like, missing it.

328 00:32:05.770 ⇒ 00:32:13.400 Robert Tseng: column here, like, and, like, you know, like, type of engagement, or whatever. So, whether it’s AI…

329 00:32:13.400 ⇒ 00:32:18.820 Uttam Kumaran: You just don’t have a strategy component to CES. I’m trying to sell it, like, I don’t have the workstream assigned, though.

330 00:32:18.820 ⇒ 00:32:20.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

331 00:32:21.100 ⇒ 00:32:28.969 Robert Tseng: Okay, we can change this later, but I’m just gonna… Plug stuff… some stuff in… This is really…

332 00:32:29.650 ⇒ 00:32:38.340 Robert Tseng: the… right? Yeah. And then this is, like, my more tech, strategy… This is, like, straight up…

333 00:32:40.370 ⇒ 00:32:42.290 Robert Tseng: software, like, I don’t…

334 00:32:42.510 ⇒ 00:32:48.410 Uttam Kumaran: I would just put, I would… yeah, I would just put, I, I guess software, yeah.

335 00:32:48.410 ⇒ 00:32:49.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

336 00:32:50.340 ⇒ 00:32:52.059 Uttam Kumaran: Well, this is kind of software, then.

337 00:32:53.330 ⇒ 00:32:54.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

338 00:33:06.400 ⇒ 00:33:07.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

339 00:33:18.970 ⇒ 00:33:22.390 Uttam Kumaran: The thing I’m more nervous about is, can you, like…

340 00:33:24.890 ⇒ 00:33:30.110 Uttam Kumaran: Can you be an engagement planner on… for clients.

341 00:33:30.670 ⇒ 00:33:32.130 Uttam Kumaran: and be successful.

342 00:33:36.890 ⇒ 00:33:39.220 Clarence Stone: Well, two of them, but the same.

343 00:33:39.220 ⇒ 00:33:46.940 Robert Tseng: Yeah, two of them are the same, so that might help, that might just feel like it’s 3. But yeah, I mean, as far as context fishing-wise, like, I think, you know, probably 3 is the max.

344 00:33:48.680 ⇒ 00:33:51.950 Robert Tseng: But maybe for Ashwini, like, his 4 is really 3.

345 00:33:52.250 ⇒ 00:33:56.660 Robert Tseng: Oh, I guess you put him at Magic Spoon. That’s 5. Yeah.

346 00:33:59.800 ⇒ 00:34:00.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

347 00:34:01.410 ⇒ 00:34:02.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that might be tough.

348 00:34:04.050 ⇒ 00:34:10.900 Robert Tseng: I mean, does Magic Spoon need Ashwini? What if we just did, Mustafa or someone else on engagement planning?

349 00:34:11.480 ⇒ 00:34:13.959 Clarence Stone: We’re saying Demi and Mustafa are a good pair.

350 00:34:13.969 ⇒ 00:34:14.559 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

351 00:34:18.130 ⇒ 00:34:20.669 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, you can move them there, that’s fine.

352 00:34:21.350 ⇒ 00:34:31.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that way, like, nobody’s really on 3 set… like, more than… more than 3 separate clients. I mean, if they’re multiple work streams on the same client, I think that’s okay, but yeah.

353 00:34:35.960 ⇒ 00:34:44.019 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, it’s just, yeah, it’s just gonna… Mustafa is now gonna be, like, split between data stuff and AI stuff, which is what he kinda wanted.

354 00:34:44.889 ⇒ 00:34:45.799 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

355 00:34:49.049 ⇒ 00:34:52.669 Robert Tseng: But he’s not the lead guy on the AI side, right?

356 00:34:52.670 ⇒ 00:34:53.000 Uttam Kumaran: No.

357 00:34:53.000 ⇒ 00:34:55.040 Robert Tseng: No, yeah, okay, so it should be okay.

358 00:35:01.740 ⇒ 00:35:02.460 Robert Tseng: Yep.

359 00:35:06.290 ⇒ 00:35:06.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

360 00:35:09.000 ⇒ 00:35:12.090 Uttam Kumaran: So, can we remove, like, the, the,

361 00:35:12.990 ⇒ 00:35:16.400 Uttam Kumaran: like, the EPs here, or should we remove these?

362 00:35:19.890 ⇒ 00:35:21.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we should.

363 00:35:22.950 ⇒ 00:35:23.600 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

364 00:35:23.930 ⇒ 00:35:24.839 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, let’s remove.

365 00:35:24.840 ⇒ 00:35:27.189 Robert Tseng: Yeah, anything that’s low, let’s just remove those, yeah.

366 00:35:30.030 ⇒ 00:35:30.890 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

367 00:35:36.420 ⇒ 00:35:39.019 Uttam Kumaran: And then for SLs, it’s… we… it’s just…

368 00:35:40.220 ⇒ 00:35:44.880 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, Oasis covering for me, Sam on AI stuff.

369 00:35:45.320 ⇒ 00:35:49.240 Uttam Kumaran: And… It’s you, on strategy stuff.

370 00:35:49.910 ⇒ 00:35:50.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

371 00:35:59.620 ⇒ 00:36:03.830 Uttam Kumaran: So this is where, like, one is we don’t have a… I mean…

372 00:36:04.240 ⇒ 00:36:08.040 Uttam Kumaran: I initially said another staffing need for us is a MarTech

373 00:36:08.270 ⇒ 00:36:10.369 Uttam Kumaran: EP, but it seems like

374 00:36:10.960 ⇒ 00:36:12.890 Uttam Kumaran: You want that to be a Sweeney?

375 00:36:14.260 ⇒ 00:36:15.379 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think so.

376 00:36:15.380 ⇒ 00:36:17.370 Uttam Kumaran: We’re sort of out, we sort of, like, don’t have…

377 00:36:18.550 ⇒ 00:36:20.319 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t even know what that, like…

378 00:36:20.510 ⇒ 00:36:22.790 Uttam Kumaran: Background of that role is, but…

379 00:36:59.470 ⇒ 00:37:08.099 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, I think with the work that… I mean, Amber has been learning a lot about Martech. I think she could end up being that for Martech.

380 00:37:09.550 ⇒ 00:37:13.180 Robert Tseng: But Ash Whitney’s obviously more technical, so it’s just, like, in terms of, like.

381 00:37:15.470 ⇒ 00:37:24.359 Robert Tseng: connecting to different tools, like, I mean, I think… I mean, Zoran… Zoron under, kind of, is the first one to go and, like, read about all these, like, random…

382 00:37:24.690 ⇒ 00:37:25.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

383 00:37:25.170 ⇒ 00:37:29.430 Robert Tseng: Things that, like, our clients are using, and then, like, he’ll…

384 00:37:29.430 ⇒ 00:37:34.779 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s… I think it has to be someone… has to be somewhat technical, like…

385 00:37:34.950 ⇒ 00:37:35.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

386 00:37:35.910 ⇒ 00:37:36.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

387 00:37:41.110 ⇒ 00:37:43.740 Uttam Kumaran: And then we… so, yeah, we need a Martech.

388 00:37:44.140 ⇒ 00:37:49.400 Uttam Kumaran: Because as soon as I move Ashwini, Here…

389 00:37:49.690 ⇒ 00:37:52.419 Uttam Kumaran: now we’re missing that MarTech person, right?

390 00:37:52.590 ⇒ 00:37:54.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah. The second… the second piece is…

391 00:37:54.960 ⇒ 00:38:04.409 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we need a… we need a Jasmine… We need a strategy, like… Lead. Super badly.

392 00:38:04.830 ⇒ 00:38:05.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

393 00:38:18.100 ⇒ 00:38:24.360 Uttam Kumaran: Which… I guess can’t be Greg? Like, can Greg fill in on any of this other stuff?

394 00:38:24.810 ⇒ 00:38:25.680 Uttam Kumaran: Or no.

395 00:38:30.350 ⇒ 00:38:33.050 Robert Tseng: On the, on the, on the new, on the new stuff that’s coming?

396 00:38:34.250 ⇒ 00:38:34.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

397 00:38:34.820 ⇒ 00:38:36.019 Robert Tseng: Just like on any of our edges.

398 00:38:36.020 ⇒ 00:38:40.089 Uttam Kumaran: Can Greg expand to take on more strategy CSO?

399 00:38:40.360 ⇒ 00:38:40.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

400 00:38:53.630 ⇒ 00:38:59.059 Robert Tseng: he could take Eden, possibly.

401 00:39:03.540 ⇒ 00:39:09.399 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think, like, what they… what they need to do is just, they need to run more experiments now, so it is really, like,

402 00:39:10.970 ⇒ 00:39:18.679 Robert Tseng: use Mixpanel better, and, like, run more web experiments, try to, like, kind of impact the top of funnel for them,

403 00:39:18.890 ⇒ 00:39:19.680 Robert Tseng: So…

404 00:39:19.810 ⇒ 00:39:31.850 Robert Tseng: I mean, his skill set might translate over to that, but he just has no econ background, so… or just… yeah, or any CPG background, for that matter, so… I’m not… I’m not sure if he will.

405 00:39:32.390 ⇒ 00:39:34.329 Robert Tseng: If you’ll… if you’ll do well.

406 00:39:35.620 ⇒ 00:39:36.570 Uttam Kumaran: So, I mean, he’s…

407 00:39:36.570 ⇒ 00:39:37.220 Robert Tseng: Seems like a pure…

408 00:39:37.220 ⇒ 00:39:39.880 Uttam Kumaran: He could come on to Hedra. Yeah.

409 00:39:40.090 ⇒ 00:39:40.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

410 00:39:41.280 ⇒ 00:39:42.909 Uttam Kumaran: Like Hedra and Default.

411 00:39:43.660 ⇒ 00:39:44.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

412 00:39:51.210 ⇒ 00:39:56.019 Uttam Kumaran: And then, I mean… Like, breezy or whatever.

413 00:39:57.140 ⇒ 00:40:11.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think it’ll… we’ll go through, like, ebbs and flows, where, like, you know, if he could take you out of more stuff, and you’re doing the selling, like… Yeah. Yeah, like, I think that’s fine. One of us, you know, our time, you know, whatever time we get out of fine…

414 00:40:11.060 ⇒ 00:40:14.620 Uttam Kumaran: The easier ones to get taken care of, like, you know?

415 00:40:14.880 ⇒ 00:40:15.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

416 00:40:20.170 ⇒ 00:40:20.860 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

417 00:40:23.760 ⇒ 00:40:26.380 Uttam Kumaran: And then, did you end up chatting with Jasmine?

418 00:40:26.870 ⇒ 00:40:28.190 Robert Tseng: I’m talking to her tomorrow.

419 00:40:29.050 ⇒ 00:40:29.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

420 00:40:31.320 ⇒ 00:40:36.439 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel like if she… if it’s not gonna work with her, then you’re gonna still be in a jam.

421 00:40:36.670 ⇒ 00:40:37.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

422 00:40:45.900 ⇒ 00:40:49.659 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, I just need to know what,

423 00:40:49.980 ⇒ 00:40:54.310 Uttam Kumaran: If we can’t get, Gabe… then…

424 00:40:57.310 ⇒ 00:41:03.890 Robert Tseng: I think we can get him part-time. I don’t think he’ll do more than 20 hours a week for now. So, if that’s enough to kind of take on Andy…

425 00:41:03.890 ⇒ 00:41:06.560 Uttam Kumaran: Will he work on, like, clients?

426 00:41:06.890 ⇒ 00:41:07.959 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think he would.

427 00:41:08.780 ⇒ 00:41:13.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then, like, obviously we’re… he’s… we’re getting… he’s talking to his lawyers about, like.

428 00:41:13.720 ⇒ 00:41:31.489 Robert Tseng: how we can… you know, if we were to basically take over his… his visa thing, it would be, like, around 10 grand to, like, basically override… to, like, override his… his employer, and he… he would rather work with us than he would work with his… his, his employer, so…

429 00:41:31.490 ⇒ 00:41:38.660 Uttam Kumaran: And so I messaged him, and I basically was like, tell me, is that, like, is that, like, 30 days away? Is that, like, 90 days away? Like, how far away are we?

430 00:41:39.020 ⇒ 00:41:39.370 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

431 00:41:39.370 ⇒ 00:41:41.770 Uttam Kumaran: I need to figure something out for,

432 00:41:42.670 ⇒ 00:41:47.279 Uttam Kumaran: Well, one, I have to figure out, okay, if that’s 90 days out, but he can do 20 hours a week.

433 00:41:47.280 ⇒ 00:41:57.279 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but I think for sure, I feel he should be able to take on at least Andy, you know, with his 20 hours a week, and he can be client-facing, whatever, yeah. So I think we should push… press him on that.

434 00:41:57.810 ⇒ 00:41:58.540 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

435 00:42:00.110 ⇒ 00:42:00.750 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

436 00:42:02.290 ⇒ 00:42:04.829 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, otherwise, then I would give that to Pranav.

437 00:42:05.100 ⇒ 00:42:05.550 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

438 00:42:05.550 ⇒ 00:42:06.660 Uttam Kumaran: Can’t get him here.

439 00:42:19.070 ⇒ 00:42:19.940 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

440 00:42:40.990 ⇒ 00:42:50.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, look, if at the end of the day, I’m on ABC, it’s… I mean, really, the thing is gonna be to get me out of Element. It’s gonna be a real magic trick.

441 00:42:51.400 ⇒ 00:42:52.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

442 00:42:53.360 ⇒ 00:42:59.689 Robert Tseng: Well, once we start building, right, like, you’re pretty much out of it. You just need to be there for a bunch of these calls, right?

443 00:43:00.170 ⇒ 00:43:01.139 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

444 00:43:01.140 ⇒ 00:43:01.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

445 00:43:02.480 ⇒ 00:43:07.240 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, so there’s… so there’s a couple, I think, questions immediately.

446 00:43:07.700 ⇒ 00:43:14.170 Uttam Kumaran: is like… Demi is good with CSO.

447 00:43:15.700 ⇒ 00:43:19.250 Uttam Kumaran: Gabe can do 20 hours.

448 00:43:20.080 ⇒ 00:43:22.729 Uttam Kumaran: a week for Q1.

449 00:43:23.320 ⇒ 00:43:27.620 Uttam Kumaran: Jasmine wants to come on board.

450 00:43:29.650 ⇒ 00:43:35.680 Uttam Kumaran: I already called Pranav, he’s good. Zoran is good.

451 00:43:36.740 ⇒ 00:43:39.370 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, where else can I put Zoran, dude?

452 00:43:42.620 ⇒ 00:43:47.530 Uttam Kumaran: Or, like, do we just wait until we… I mean, maybe, yeah…

453 00:43:47.660 ⇒ 00:43:51.950 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe Zoran just does the ABC strategy stuff with me really closely.

454 00:43:53.720 ⇒ 00:44:03.940 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I view him as, like, an expansion lover, like, I think, you know, we’re trying to push him onto… if we do a renewal with Honey Stinger, like, I want it to be a lot on him, and then,

455 00:44:05.260 ⇒ 00:44:12.129 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think his… what he has to offer should work for every CPG client. I feel we should just pitch his scope to everyone.

456 00:44:14.580 ⇒ 00:44:21.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if I were to get a renewal with Insomnia, like, I would also be pushing for his… for his scope, like, yeah.

457 00:44:22.450 ⇒ 00:44:23.070 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

458 00:44:24.200 ⇒ 00:44:26.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so that’s why I have him down here as ABC Martech.

459 00:44:27.300 ⇒ 00:44:32.870 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, I mean, he should be, you know, we should pitch MarTech to every one of our clients, and then…

460 00:44:33.070 ⇒ 00:44:34.730 Robert Tseng: You know, but yeah, he should probably have…

461 00:44:34.730 ⇒ 00:44:36.380 Uttam Kumaran: Dolph is good.

462 00:44:37.370 ⇒ 00:44:38.140 Robert Tseng: Okay.

463 00:44:38.140 ⇒ 00:44:39.910 Uttam Kumaran: I haven’t looked through it yet.

464 00:44:40.420 ⇒ 00:44:42.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, he crushed it. It’s good. I liked it.

465 00:44:42.690 ⇒ 00:44:43.310 Robert Tseng: Okay.

466 00:44:44.260 ⇒ 00:44:51.119 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so we need to know Demi is good, we need to know Gabe is good, we know what’s gonna happen with Jasmine.

467 00:44:52.320 ⇒ 00:44:59.170 Uttam Kumaran: Everything else, I feel like… Let’s just consider this… Let’s consider this,

468 00:44:59.730 ⇒ 00:45:02.799 Uttam Kumaran: like, this is what Jan is gonna be?

469 00:45:04.300 ⇒ 00:45:07.590 Uttam Kumaran: Like, at minimum, this is what JN is gonna be.

470 00:45:08.100 ⇒ 00:45:14.040 Uttam Kumaran: And then… depending on how we knock out these questions, this was what Jane could be.

471 00:45:15.070 ⇒ 00:45:25.039 Uttam Kumaran: So, what I’m gonna do, Clarence, is I’m gonna have Eliza and Rico make sure this is… this all exists… a view of this all exists in operating.

472 00:45:25.200 ⇒ 00:45:26.939 Uttam Kumaran: With these 3 roles.

473 00:45:27.470 ⇒ 00:45:29.710 Uttam Kumaran: And then with each of these names.

474 00:45:33.280 ⇒ 00:45:34.499 Clarence Stone: Yeah, that makes sense.

475 00:45:35.500 ⇒ 00:45:37.410 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’m going to…

476 00:45:40.820 ⇒ 00:45:43.129 Uttam Kumaran: go after another AECS.

477 00:45:46.050 ⇒ 00:45:47.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

478 00:45:49.190 ⇒ 00:45:50.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

479 00:45:50.190 ⇒ 00:45:53.339 Clarence Stone: I like the pattern that’s settling down here, too, because it’ll…

480 00:45:54.090 ⇒ 00:46:02.220 Clarence Stone: it actually makes people’s roles a lot more solid. Just like you can say, like, Demi would be the CSO of DE,

481 00:46:03.910 ⇒ 00:46:05.529 Clarence Stone: Right? Like, you’re kind of… Yeah.

482 00:46:05.730 ⇒ 00:46:10.330 Clarence Stone: Rolling people into specific niches, so, like, the titles are very strong at that point.

483 00:46:10.880 ⇒ 00:46:11.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

484 00:46:15.170 ⇒ 00:46:20.760 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, then let me, I’ll message… I’ll message them a lot, see if we can chat with him tomorrow.

485 00:46:21.160 ⇒ 00:46:22.130 Uttam Kumaran: to reassess.

486 00:46:24.820 ⇒ 00:46:32.900 Uttam Kumaran: And then, the other thing I want to put is, like, buy, basically.

487 00:46:33.760 ⇒ 00:46:43.410 Uttam Kumaran: by, like, end of Q1, We need to know, like, if Ashwini moves to, CSO?

488 00:46:45.660 ⇒ 00:46:48.610 Uttam Kumaran: What else are we trying to find out?

489 00:46:48.970 ⇒ 00:46:50.360 Clarence Stone: Who would cover for him?

490 00:46:51.880 ⇒ 00:46:53.399 Uttam Kumaran: I would get us another person.

491 00:46:53.400 ⇒ 00:46:54.060 Clarence Stone: Yeah, okay.

492 00:46:57.260 ⇒ 00:47:10.510 Uttam Kumaran: So if Ashwini can move to CSO, We’re looking to see… Where… Yeah, ultimately, like, And Casey… the…

493 00:47:10.510 ⇒ 00:47:11.130 Clarence Stone: Yeah.

494 00:47:11.130 ⇒ 00:47:12.130 Uttam Kumaran: EP.

495 00:47:20.070 ⇒ 00:47:21.549 Clarence Stone: So that’s these two.

496 00:47:45.040 ⇒ 00:47:54.720 Robert Tseng: Okay, so what I’m trying to kind of write out here, and I think we could build this out more, is, like, something about opportunity size is more kind of based on our client’s actual

497 00:47:54.870 ⇒ 00:47:57.200 Robert Tseng: performance? Like, how… like, are they…

498 00:47:57.570 ⇒ 00:48:07.920 Robert Tseng: like, yeah, we’re saying default is large, but I don’t think it’s actually a large opportunity. We make more money than default does, and we also make more money than README does, right? So, like, to me, it’s, like, small opportunity.

499 00:48:08.210 ⇒ 00:48:10.100 Robert Tseng: But, like, we’ve really maxed…

500 00:48:10.100 ⇒ 00:48:10.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, sure.

501 00:48:10.420 ⇒ 00:48:14.370 Robert Tseng: Have we maxed out, like, on what we can get out of them? Like, is that account.

502 00:48:14.370 ⇒ 00:48:14.700 Uttam Kumaran: Really good.

503 00:48:14.700 ⇒ 00:48:18.979 Robert Tseng: gonna be able to grow? Like, I’m not really sure. Like, I think that’s kind of what I’m trying to establish here.

504 00:48:18.980 ⇒ 00:48:20.299 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay, okay.

505 00:48:20.300 ⇒ 00:48:20.970 Clarence Stone: So…

506 00:48:20.970 ⇒ 00:48:24.059 Uttam Kumaran: I guess more of the op size, I meant is, like.

507 00:48:24.230 ⇒ 00:48:26.729 Uttam Kumaran: What percentage of our revenue is it?

508 00:48:26.970 ⇒ 00:48:27.640 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

509 00:48:27.640 ⇒ 00:48:30.400 Uttam Kumaran: but they’re not… I can’t get us more…

510 00:48:30.960 ⇒ 00:48:34.089 Uttam Kumaran: I’m getting us… I got… I’m getting us $2.50 an hour.

511 00:48:34.360 ⇒ 00:48:36.019 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t think we can get more out of that.

512 00:48:36.020 ⇒ 00:48:36.989 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t do anything.

513 00:48:36.990 ⇒ 00:48:43.540 Robert Tseng: More, like, for us, yeah, like, so this, maybe this one, the importance is more, like, kind of, Brainforge importance, or, I don’t know, like…

514 00:48:43.650 ⇒ 00:48:44.440 Robert Tseng: intern.

515 00:48:44.440 ⇒ 00:48:49.030 Uttam Kumaran: It’s almost like risk, I guess, or… see, it’s another way of thinking about it.

516 00:48:49.200 ⇒ 00:48:50.130 Robert Tseng: Yeah…

517 00:48:50.420 ⇒ 00:48:53.850 Uttam Kumaran: Like, reading the impact if it were to churn.

518 00:48:53.850 ⇒ 00:48:54.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

519 00:48:55.220 ⇒ 00:48:56.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.

520 00:48:56.630 ⇒ 00:49:03.540 Clarence Stone: Robert, to finish off your thought, though, I think there’s a third, like, label that I would want to see, which is, like, current project size.

521 00:49:03.790 ⇒ 00:49:11.770 Clarence Stone: Right. How much of an opportunity in terms of Brainforges services could you have for the, like, company overall?

522 00:49:11.770 ⇒ 00:49:12.489 Robert Tseng: Trying to say.

523 00:49:12.490 ⇒ 00:49:13.330 Clarence Stone: Share your one thoughts.

524 00:49:13.330 ⇒ 00:49:13.870 Robert Tseng: maturity.

525 00:49:13.870 ⇒ 00:49:19.289 Clarence Stone: I think it’s a company… Like, in terms of pockets, like, how much can they actually pay?

526 00:49:19.290 ⇒ 00:49:19.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

527 00:49:20.130 ⇒ 00:49:20.930 Clarence Stone: Right.

528 00:49:21.530 ⇒ 00:49:35.930 Robert Tseng: So, like, for example, this MarTech thing, this is a small opportunity. We’re not gonna get any more out of that. This is really just… they just needed one person, and we’ve pretty much just… we’ve just billed Zoran’s hours. Like, there’s not… like, as far as maturity-wise, like.

529 00:49:36.200 ⇒ 00:49:46.329 Robert Tseng: maybe opportunity’s not the right, but, you know, I’m trying to say, like, how much… yeah, like, kind of to your point, Clarence, like, how much more can we get out of that work stream? I don’t think we’re gonna get anything more out of this one.

530 00:49:46.820 ⇒ 00:50:03.699 Robert Tseng: But, like, on the strategy side, like, I haven’t really been, like, driving strategy here. We tried to throw Henry at it, like, it just didn’t really work. You know, I think the opportunity… there’s a lot of opportunity there. The risk is high, like, they actually just started another product analytics consultant.

531 00:50:03.700 ⇒ 00:50:15.560 Robert Tseng: Because they think we’re just… they’re like, what the… like, we didn’t do anything with MixedPanel the past quarter. So, I mean, yeah, there’s… there’s some risk now. There’s somebody there that’s trying to compete with us for that scope. So, to me, it’s like…

532 00:50:15.660 ⇒ 00:50:16.969 Robert Tseng: Well…

533 00:50:17.780 ⇒ 00:50:31.120 Robert Tseng: yeah, if we were to continue to grow the Eden account, like, the strategy piece is, like, kind of where we need to grow. We need to demonstrate operational excellence, really be able to impact, like, kind of the way that, you know, like,

534 00:50:31.190 ⇒ 00:50:33.580 Robert Tseng: helping them…

535 00:50:33.580 ⇒ 00:50:52.570 Robert Tseng: fulfill orders better, or whatever, or, like, or on the product side, just be able to make better product decisions, and, like, that’s just, like, not something that we’ve really proven that we can do well with them yet. So, whereas, like, this Remo thing, you know, this is, like, it’s kind of a flash-in-the-pan opportunity. It’s, like.

536 00:50:52.640 ⇒ 00:51:00.550 Robert Tseng: we got… we got at the right time, and I do want more of these clients, like, which is something I’m trying to work with, trying to put in front of Luke, like.

537 00:51:01.010 ⇒ 00:51:02.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah, how do we meet, like.

538 00:51:03.030 ⇒ 00:51:18.119 Robert Tseng: we come in as, like, kind of the disaster kind of consultant going, and, like, this is how we can get, like, big-ticket, contracts at the right time, but this is a one-time build, and then there’s maybe some maintenance, but it’s not really gonna be, like, a big driver for us, like…

539 00:51:18.220 ⇒ 00:51:30.420 Robert Tseng: even if they continue to work with CERF, like, we’d probably just do a traditional staff AUG model and not really… I mean, I don’t really see us expanding more on this front, right?

540 00:51:30.810 ⇒ 00:51:36.340 Robert Tseng: So, that’s kind of how I’m thinking about it. Yeah.

541 00:51:36.470 ⇒ 00:51:40.839 Robert Tseng: So, like, on the ABC Andy side, okay.

542 00:51:40.840 ⇒ 00:52:00.709 Robert Tseng: was it large, like, the… the AI piece? Like, is opportunity size large? Yeah, I think there’s plenty of other departments we could roll this off to. I think it’s actually quite low. We’ve only rolled it out to, like, one set of services, right? So, if we actually had, like, a great CSO who came in here, they could roll Andy out to all the other… all the other service lines?

543 00:52:00.710 ⇒ 00:52:07.120 Uttam Kumaran: And the contract is structured in a way where we automatically will get paid more.

544 00:52:07.700 ⇒ 00:52:08.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

545 00:52:08.700 ⇒ 00:52:10.210 Robert Tseng: So, I think that’s…

546 00:52:10.460 ⇒ 00:52:18.700 Robert Tseng: I would expect all of our AI-type clients to be at, like, low maturity, because, like, this is where the ceiling’s the highest. So,

547 00:52:18.900 ⇒ 00:52:19.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

548 00:52:19.810 ⇒ 00:52:22.239 Robert Tseng: but maybe ABC strategy-wise, like.

549 00:52:22.620 ⇒ 00:52:29.169 Robert Tseng: like, I don’t know, maybe this is, like, large, but we are kind of… we’re in a bunch of different places now.

550 00:52:31.120 ⇒ 00:52:40.170 Robert Tseng: you know, we’re billing them by hour, or we have, like, a limited set of hours with them, like, I don’t know how much more we’re gonna squeeze out of them, strategy-wise.

551 00:52:40.520 ⇒ 00:52:46.190 Robert Tseng: CES? I don’t know, what… how would you… what would you say, Tom? Like.

552 00:52:48.100 ⇒ 00:52:53.720 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, I think kind of same way, there’s definitely money to be made there.

553 00:52:54.460 ⇒ 00:53:02.489 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess, you know, do you… how much… how much more, like, I guess we’re using low, medium, high, but is it, like, do we have…

554 00:53:03.140 ⇒ 00:53:07.089 Robert Tseng: Like, yeah, how much more do we think we can grow that one, Rich?

555 00:53:08.430 ⇒ 00:53:19.549 Uttam Kumaran: I think this is gonna… if I had to bet on who is gonna be our best client next year, I would… and best… not only meaning we make most money, but they’re also the easiest, is gonna be this.

556 00:53:19.690 ⇒ 00:53:20.390 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

557 00:53:20.580 ⇒ 00:53:25.569 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, well then, yeah, I think we could be… Like, Element, for example, it’s just gonna be hard, like, they…

558 00:53:25.570 ⇒ 00:53:26.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

559 00:53:26.100 ⇒ 00:53:31.649 Uttam Kumaran: I could tell that it’s gonna be… it’s gonna be rude the whole time. So, in that sense, like.

560 00:53:32.170 ⇒ 00:53:43.449 Uttam Kumaran: But I think CES, I’m gonna put this… I’m putting this… this next proposal in front of them, and like, there’s also two additional proposals we’ve already sent that they want to do… they want to work with us on, so I feel it’s really high.

561 00:53:44.110 ⇒ 00:53:44.750 Robert Tseng: Okay.

562 00:53:45.510 ⇒ 00:54:02.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, so, anyway, some mix of these two ends up kind of informing what we consider to be, like, our own… the own risks that we’re taking. Like, who are, like, the… you know, like, we gotta have different tiers of clients, right? Like, you know, in terms of, like, escalation, when shit hits the fan across all the clients, like.

563 00:54:03.170 ⇒ 00:54:10.280 Robert Tseng: we can’t equally serve all of them, like, who’s gonna get… who’s gonna get our attention? It’s gonna be the ones that, like, we know are able to…

564 00:54:10.530 ⇒ 00:54:16.309 Robert Tseng: They’re gonna… That are worth the potential, rather than…

565 00:54:16.520 ⇒ 00:54:32.199 Robert Tseng: you know, obviously with Insomnia, we kind of just, like, were like, well, they were just dragging their feet. Sure, it’s a large opportunity, but, like, we just didn’t make that much headway. It’s, like, so slow to kind of keep pushing. We’re just kind of riding the wave, and sometimes we just have to wait for the…

566 00:54:32.500 ⇒ 00:54:34.219 Robert Tseng: A different… a different…

567 00:54:34.580 ⇒ 00:54:49.649 Robert Tseng: like, way… a different way in. Like, we… it just sucks, because we’ve got the rug pulled out under us, like, the main sponsor, who’s the CMO, got fired, so we just never found, like, the right person to keep the momentum going there. And I think that risk exists across all of our clients.

568 00:54:49.650 ⇒ 00:54:57.250 Robert Tseng: gets fired, then we’re… you know, if Catherine gets fired, then, you know, we might… we might be screwed there. So,

569 00:54:57.470 ⇒ 00:54:58.170 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

570 00:55:00.680 ⇒ 00:55:01.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

571 00:55:02.130 ⇒ 00:55:11.419 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I mean, we could probably develop this more, but yeah, I agree, this is more of, like, a risk assessment across our client portfolio for us, and then based on, like, the ones who are, like.

572 00:55:11.560 ⇒ 00:55:12.310 Robert Tseng: Duh.

573 00:55:12.740 ⇒ 00:55:19.100 Robert Tseng: Who are high risk, high potential, like, we gotta make sure our best people are on there, and then, you know.

574 00:55:19.450 ⇒ 00:55:25.610 Robert Tseng: Then, for those that are at lower risk, lower potential, we can… we can groom.

575 00:55:25.610 ⇒ 00:55:35.109 Uttam Kumaran: Well, like, for example, we didn’t get insomnia because they were low… like, we will never assign a client knowing it’s low risk, low potential, right? They end up there.

576 00:55:35.250 ⇒ 00:55:36.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah, they end up there.

577 00:55:36.220 ⇒ 00:55:40.179 Uttam Kumaran: For me, it should be an indication that these people get fired, like, they get fired.

578 00:55:40.290 ⇒ 00:55:45.519 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Because, dude, I’m telling you, I’m gonna find 5 insomnias when… inside CES.

579 00:55:45.520 ⇒ 00:55:46.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

580 00:55:46.810 ⇒ 00:55:58.130 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, it’s… I’m not saying 2 insomni… 5 insomnias I’m gonna find within CES. Okay. So, it’s like, it… the scale is really, like, I want it to be clear what that means.

581 00:55:58.130 ⇒ 00:55:58.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

582 00:55:58.680 ⇒ 00:56:04.099 Uttam Kumaran: So, then it makes this easy to do allocation.

583 00:56:04.620 ⇒ 00:56:05.230 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

584 00:56:05.600 ⇒ 00:56:11.239 Uttam Kumaran: So it… so I think… I think a fair thing for us to do is, like, if a client gets into low risk.

585 00:56:11.360 ⇒ 00:56:12.810 Uttam Kumaran: low maturity?

586 00:56:13.040 ⇒ 00:56:16.600 Uttam Kumaran: what is it? Like, the CSO’s job is to move it

587 00:56:17.070 ⇒ 00:56:21.570 Uttam Kumaran: like, out, basically. Out or out? Like, right up or out.

588 00:56:23.300 ⇒ 00:56:24.379 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but, like, for insomnia.

589 00:56:24.380 ⇒ 00:56:27.409 Uttam Kumaran: Which you’ve done, which you’ve done for README, right?

590 00:56:27.410 ⇒ 00:56:28.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

591 00:56:28.050 ⇒ 00:56:32.750 Uttam Kumaran: README, once it gets to 10K, should be, you know, a move up.

592 00:56:32.880 ⇒ 00:56:37.199 Uttam Kumaran: Urban Stems, we have this thing coming back in March, so they’re also, like.

593 00:56:37.390 ⇒ 00:56:40.559 Uttam Kumaran: Temporary low until we see what they say.

594 00:56:40.560 ⇒ 00:56:41.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

595 00:56:41.010 ⇒ 00:56:42.649 Uttam Kumaran: Insomnia is…

596 00:56:43.080 ⇒ 00:56:50.910 Uttam Kumaran: again, I think you’ve done a good job of being, like… they basically are moved out, and you’re, like, seeing if there’s any life support.

597 00:56:50.910 ⇒ 00:57:09.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I mean, for the past month, we already effectively kind of shut things down. Like, we downsized the team, right? We started moving people off the account. But yeah, whoever the CSO is on the account, you know, my… I think my thought is you keep trying until the end of the contract. Like, you… it’s your job to try to figure out a way to… to move them up.

598 00:57:09.350 ⇒ 00:57:20.750 Robert Tseng: unless it’s like a… you know, you keep trying until you run into enough no’s, and you’re like, okay, fine. Then we just… we just ride out the rest of the contract, and we move on, right? So, I think,

599 00:57:20.750 ⇒ 00:57:32.649 Robert Tseng: that’s… that’s kind of how I… I would see it. But yeah, I think when we’re doing these capacity or planning and allocations, we should be getting a read and updating with up, you know, updating our priors with, like, what we think

600 00:57:32.650 ⇒ 00:57:44.590 Robert Tseng: how the… how… how clients have moved… like, how the risk profile has changed. Like, I want to get a better pulse on that. What are we seeing, like, based on our delivery, or, like, you know, internal things that are move… that are happening within the clients, like.

601 00:57:44.650 ⇒ 00:57:50.350 Robert Tseng: how are people… you know, no one stays in this state, right? Obviously, they start maybe in the TBD state, like, we’re…

602 00:57:50.550 ⇒ 00:57:53.520 Robert Tseng: You know, unless, you know, they sign something very…

603 00:57:53.650 ⇒ 00:57:59.199 Robert Tseng: fixed, and we know them well, whatever. But, like, yeah, our job is to quickly qualify them, try to figure out, like.

604 00:57:59.210 ⇒ 00:58:12.689 Robert Tseng: which this size, we should be able to know. As soon as we get access to the data, go look at the business, figure out how much money they’re making, understand their margins, we should know everything about this on the opportunity size. And then on the maturity side, we should figure this out within the discovery.

605 00:58:12.690 ⇒ 00:58:25.650 Robert Tseng: you know, what work stream are we able to go after, and then what are, like, the few that we can anticipate? And the CSO should be advocating to us why they should view it as, like, you know, a low…

606 00:58:25.650 ⇒ 00:58:30.989 Robert Tseng: low maturity, high potential type of, like, client. Or they’re just like, you know what?

607 00:58:31.020 ⇒ 00:58:35.429 Robert Tseng: you know, kind of like what I said with Ellie, it’s like, you know, I think, you know, this…

608 00:58:35.430 ⇒ 00:58:53.299 Robert Tseng: there’s a cap on it. Like, there is the scope that we can go in, but, like, that’s the only thing that I’m able to see within the month that we’re working with them. I would not say that they’re a high potential client, but, you know, we could at least, you know, get them at 10K a month or whatever. But we just, you know, I’m just trying to use those.

609 00:58:53.300 ⇒ 00:58:53.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

610 00:58:53.690 ⇒ 00:59:00.260 Robert Tseng: Examples of how, how we should be doing this, like, risk assessment, over, over, for our clients.

611 00:59:00.540 ⇒ 00:59:01.190 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

612 00:59:01.190 ⇒ 00:59:01.760 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

613 00:59:04.180 ⇒ 00:59:15.990 Clarence Stone: This is great. I think it should be used as a tool to train CSOs, too. I think on standout, if any of these statuses change, or they discover new information, they should be calling that out.

614 00:59:16.230 ⇒ 00:59:16.790 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

615 00:59:17.150 ⇒ 00:59:27.809 Robert Tseng: I might update these just to, like, kind of make this a little bit clearer. I think it’s a little bit, kind of, doesn’t roll off the tongue well when I’m saying something is low maturity, high potential, like, that may not look…

616 00:59:27.810 ⇒ 00:59:31.030 Clarence Stone: very intuitive, so maybe I’ll change this a bit, but…

617 00:59:31.030 ⇒ 00:59:33.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that’s… this is… this is good.

618 00:59:33.710 ⇒ 00:59:36.750 Uttam Kumaran: Or you can say remaining, remaining potential or something, yeah.

619 00:59:36.750 ⇒ 00:59:40.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah, something like that, okay. Yeah.

620 00:59:42.200 ⇒ 00:59:43.730 Robert Tseng: top potential.

621 00:59:44.850 ⇒ 00:59:47.510 Robert Tseng: Okay, now everything has to be flipped.

622 00:59:48.530 ⇒ 00:59:49.350 Robert Tseng: Okay.

623 00:59:49.680 ⇒ 00:59:50.690 Robert Tseng: It’s fine.

624 00:59:54.530 ⇒ 00:59:59.729 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, we can probably move to… Just confirm the incentives.

625 01:00:00.280 ⇒ 01:00:07.799 Uttam Kumaran: And then… Clarence, I’d rather move to talking about the day in the life, like the meetings.

626 01:00:08.480 ⇒ 01:00:11.540 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, we’re gonna roll out.

627 01:00:41.040 ⇒ 01:00:43.469 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’m actually gonna go to the restroom real quick.

628 01:00:43.470 ⇒ 01:00:44.479 Clarence Stone: Yeah, no worries.

629 01:01:42.590 ⇒ 01:01:47.230 Uttam Kumaran: I think the thing on the incentives, dude, is it gonna be across all of your clients?

630 01:01:47.460 ⇒ 01:01:49.989 Uttam Kumaran: That you’re covering for, basically?

631 01:01:52.430 ⇒ 01:01:54.340 Clarence Stone: Were you talking to me?

632 01:01:54.540 ⇒ 01:01:55.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

633 01:01:56.730 ⇒ 01:01:59.200 Clarence Stone: The incentives for all my clients?

634 01:01:59.760 ⇒ 01:02:04.499 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning, like, For the CSO, 5%, this is gonna be…

635 01:02:07.770 ⇒ 01:02:13.160 Clarence Stone: Oh, oh, oh. Yeah, so, that’s a great point. We actually didn’t discuss, like…

636 01:02:13.160 ⇒ 01:02:13.819 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I thought about.

637 01:02:13.820 ⇒ 01:02:19.180 Clarence Stone: What is the percentage based on, like, how… how many… you know.

638 01:02:21.520 ⇒ 01:02:34.649 Clarence Stone: clients they have. But if you look at CSOs, I think everybody’s pretty packed, aside from, like, the one-offs, like Greg, who’s probably gonna get more assignments, or on and surf.

639 01:02:34.760 ⇒ 01:02:37.830 Clarence Stone: Everyone else is… loaded.

640 01:02:40.020 ⇒ 01:02:45.370 Uttam Kumaran: No, I think we should just… I just want to make it clear that it’s gonna be…

641 01:02:46.980 ⇒ 01:02:48.839 Uttam Kumaran: Based on all of your clients.

642 01:02:50.400 ⇒ 01:02:51.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that.

643 01:02:51.260 ⇒ 01:02:53.140 Clarence Stone: Okay, yeah, that’s a good point.

644 01:03:06.220 ⇒ 01:03:08.470 Clarence Stone: We’ll say waited for spinach.

645 01:03:13.570 ⇒ 01:03:15.820 Clarence Stone: of quiet science.

646 01:03:17.430 ⇒ 01:03:20.889 Clarence Stone: Alright, so let’s say you miss it on one, you know, it’ll just get weighted out.

647 01:03:28.300 ⇒ 01:03:29.629 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’m back.

648 01:03:32.580 ⇒ 01:03:38.849 Clarence Stone: Utah, I just need, like, 5 minutes to digitize what we have for meetings, so if you, if you guys wanna…

649 01:03:38.850 ⇒ 01:03:39.550 Uttam Kumaran: Oh yeah, okay.

650 01:03:39.550 ⇒ 01:03:40.710 Clarence Stone: Since.

651 01:03:40.890 ⇒ 01:03:44.079 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna go through this, I’m gonna go through the incentives then, Robert, so…

652 01:03:51.690 ⇒ 01:03:58.250 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, basically, there’s a couple of things. So, one is,

653 01:04:00.340 ⇒ 01:04:03.569 Uttam Kumaran: And this is where, like, I’m gonna… I’m gonna definitely…

654 01:04:03.830 ⇒ 01:04:14.559 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna be much more biased to give, and to be too charitable here, so you can tell me if it’s too much, but one, I was like, I think for the first

655 01:04:14.680 ⇒ 01:04:16.499 Uttam Kumaran: Quarter of running this.

656 01:04:16.690 ⇒ 01:04:22.770 Uttam Kumaran: I know we had several KPIs in that Google Doc. I think I said we should just pick one.

657 01:04:23.160 ⇒ 01:04:27.380 Uttam Kumaran: just, like, operationally, this is… I don’t want this to be, like, a bitch to figure out, so I was like.

658 01:04:27.950 ⇒ 01:04:29.130 Uttam Kumaran: To pick one?

659 01:04:29.530 ⇒ 01:04:35.720 Uttam Kumaran: thing, and I want to make… I wanna make it really compelling for this first class of people.

660 01:04:35.780 ⇒ 01:04:51.919 Uttam Kumaran: to really try to get… to try to do this. And so, basically, we said there’s gonna be a couple of… in the next 6 months, there’s a big opportunity for people to make a bit more money here. One is there’s an opportunity at a 5% quarterly commission

661 01:04:52.050 ⇒ 01:04:57.959 Uttam Kumaran: If you hit… These across the clients for which you’re assigned this role.

662 01:04:59.220 ⇒ 01:05:02.659 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s… One 5% opportunity.

663 01:05:02.830 ⇒ 01:05:03.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

664 01:05:03.690 ⇒ 01:05:09.370 Uttam Kumaran: we basically were like, we’re gonna… we wanna, in long term, I think we’ll do this biannually.

665 01:05:09.620 ⇒ 01:05:21.860 Uttam Kumaran: But in order for this to, like, stick right now, I was like, we’ll just do this quarterly for Q1 and Q2, and if you wrap Rain Forge right now, you’ll get a flat 5% bump.

666 01:05:23.490 ⇒ 01:05:28.330 Uttam Kumaran: On just, like, your normal… Whatever your normal rate is.

667 01:05:28.330 ⇒ 01:05:28.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

668 01:05:30.280 ⇒ 01:05:36.170 Uttam Kumaran: So… That means that this year, there is a… there’s, like, a 20% opportunity

669 01:05:36.820 ⇒ 01:05:46.809 Uttam Kumaran: At least in the next 6… at least in the next 6 months, there is a… 15% opportunity.

670 01:05:47.150 ⇒ 01:05:47.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

671 01:05:48.370 ⇒ 01:05:49.459 Uttam Kumaran: Which is huge.

672 01:05:49.640 ⇒ 01:05:50.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s huge.

673 01:05:52.930 ⇒ 01:05:56.350 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s… that’s why I’m… that’s why I feel like,

674 01:05:57.160 ⇒ 01:06:06.480 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, in order to get the bonuses, you do have to hit these, but I want… I want to make it, like, for the people that are gonna figure this out with us, and kind of, like.

675 01:06:06.950 ⇒ 01:06:09.590 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna probably cry our way through some of this.

676 01:06:09.800 ⇒ 01:06:12.289 Uttam Kumaran: At least there’s a bonus at the end of it.

677 01:06:12.550 ⇒ 01:06:13.150 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

678 01:06:13.400 ⇒ 01:06:16.530 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s something that we’ll hit, like, within the next 3 months, so…

679 01:06:16.860 ⇒ 01:06:17.420 Robert Tseng: We are.

680 01:06:18.770 ⇒ 01:06:20.929 Uttam Kumaran: So I think this is an easy one slide.

681 01:06:22.850 ⇒ 01:06:26.340 Uttam Kumaran: This is an easy one slide for me to put into, like.

682 01:06:28.220 ⇒ 01:06:31.810 Uttam Kumaran: Why this is gonna be super, super cool for everybody, you know?

683 01:06:33.370 ⇒ 01:06:34.390 Robert Tseng: It’s funny.

684 01:06:35.500 ⇒ 01:06:40.269 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I think… I feel like this… the… you’ll see why this is…

685 01:06:40.510 ⇒ 01:06:44.659 Uttam Kumaran: One, I think 5% is really aggressive, and I asked Clarence, I said, like.

686 01:06:45.300 ⇒ 01:06:57.240 Uttam Kumaran: what is… what are typical bonuses at, like, big companies and stuff? I don’t… I don’t even know if I ever got a bon… I think I got a bonus once. I don’t know, I never got a bonus in my life. I just got underpaid.

687 01:06:57.240 ⇒ 01:07:01.229 Robert Tseng: It’s usually not a percentage, just like a cash thing, at least, at least what I…

688 01:07:01.230 ⇒ 01:07:05.829 Uttam Kumaran: Well, they usually… what they’ll usually do is they’ll say, company, hit this number, so everybody gets, like.

689 01:07:05.830 ⇒ 01:07:06.340 Robert Tseng: ship.

690 01:07:07.030 ⇒ 01:07:20.230 Uttam Kumaran: Right? But instead, this is a little bit more controllable. 5% is a lot… 5% a quarter is a lot. Yeah. So I will… I wanna… so then, basically, what… what I’m hopeful for is that when we talk about salary, really,

691 01:07:20.440 ⇒ 01:07:35.790 Uttam Kumaran: what I’m hopeful that we can do is show that you have the ability to actually probably get, like, 10-20% bonus here, but we’re gonna just start to… we’re gonna start to put downward pressure on the base rates, is, like, what I want to try to do.

692 01:07:35.790 ⇒ 01:07:36.670 Robert Tseng: So… Yeah.

693 01:07:36.670 ⇒ 01:07:42.189 Uttam Kumaran: basically, and maybe, Clarence, I’m gonna botch this explanation, but just so I can try to say it back, like.

694 01:07:42.190 ⇒ 01:07:42.649 Clarence Stone: Go for it.

695 01:07:42.650 ⇒ 01:07:50.009 Uttam Kumaran: There’s 20% variance, so meaning this can go down to 30, up to 50, 50 to 70, right?

696 01:07:50.010 ⇒ 01:07:50.550 Robert Tseng: Yep.

697 01:07:50.550 ⇒ 01:07:55.809 Uttam Kumaran: And there’s a… there’s a potential bonus On top of that.

698 01:07:56.010 ⇒ 01:08:04.890 Uttam Kumaran: And then, basically, what I said is, once we start to layer on more benefits, we’ll take the base down even one… we’ll take the entire range down one.

699 01:08:05.360 ⇒ 01:08:05.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

700 01:08:05.950 ⇒ 01:08:10.849 Uttam Kumaran: So if you’re a recruiter at Brainforge, you can work within 30 to 50,

701 01:08:11.250 ⇒ 01:08:19.979 Uttam Kumaran: But really, what you’re gonna wanna push is, like, these total rewards. And then, basically, we talked about, like, how do we… how do we,

702 01:08:20.170 ⇒ 01:08:21.950 Uttam Kumaran: What’s the modifier?

703 01:08:22.830 ⇒ 01:08:25.300 Uttam Kumaran: Depending on the region you live in.

704 01:08:25.300 ⇒ 01:08:26.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

705 01:08:26.890 ⇒ 01:08:29.540 Uttam Kumaran: This is something that I… I…

706 01:08:29.790 ⇒ 01:08:34.650 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve asked 5 different people to do, and nobody could do it until Clarence and I did it, and I…

707 01:08:34.890 ⇒ 01:08:37.550 Uttam Kumaran: In a nice 45-minute conversation, so…

708 01:08:37.550 ⇒ 01:08:38.490 Clarence Stone: I don’t know.

709 01:08:38.490 ⇒ 01:08:41.640 Uttam Kumaran: We have, like, a good view of, like, this, yeah.

710 01:08:42.590 ⇒ 01:08:53.989 Clarence Stone: I Geminied those jurisdiction, modifiers, so if they look really far off, just let me know. Like, Southeast Asia is, like, massively aggressive at 4 to 6 bucks an hour.

711 01:08:56.319 ⇒ 01:08:59.819 Uttam Kumaran: No, I think it’s… I think that’s probably fair.

712 01:08:59.950 ⇒ 01:09:01.069 Clarence Stone: Yeah, okay.

713 01:09:11.910 ⇒ 01:09:16.410 Uttam Kumaran: So, my goal is, one, like, when we go higher for roles.

714 01:09:16.790 ⇒ 01:09:21.409 Uttam Kumaran: We’re no… we’re, like, up front, I want to basically say this is what we’re looking at, range-wise.

715 01:09:23.640 ⇒ 01:09:31.989 Uttam Kumaran: I kind of also wanna… I kind of want to, like, honestly low-key publish this, and be like, go check out Brainforge.ai slash

716 01:09:32.090 ⇒ 01:09:37.810 Uttam Kumaran: pay scale to see what you can make here, and it’s no… I’m not… dude, I’m getting so tired of, like.

717 01:09:39.210 ⇒ 01:09:41.289 Clarence Stone: Wait till you see Total Rewards.

718 01:09:41.640 ⇒ 01:09:43.739 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, so then, that’s why I’m…

719 01:09:43.740 ⇒ 01:09:44.379 Clarence Stone: Oh, man.

720 01:09:44.380 ⇒ 01:09:46.670 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna publish that, and I wanna be, like.

721 01:09:46.890 ⇒ 01:09:51.350 Uttam Kumaran: when we go higher, I want to tell people very upfront that, like, we just don’t play…

722 01:09:51.500 ⇒ 01:09:57.029 Uttam Kumaran: in order for us to defend our P&L and to respect them, here’s what we do.

723 01:09:58.020 ⇒ 01:10:01.430 Uttam Kumaran: This is what… what we can pay, these are our ranges.

724 01:10:02.020 ⇒ 01:10:05.740 Uttam Kumaran: And I just don’t think… I think we should just… Like…

725 01:10:06.040 ⇒ 01:10:15.809 Uttam Kumaran: ultimately, yes, if there’s, like, some sort of a superstar that we want to break it, we could break it, but, like, I… I’m just getting… it’s just so emotionally taxing, these conversations, and, like…

726 01:10:16.740 ⇒ 01:10:23.369 Uttam Kumaran: People are also just finding out more about us and asking for more, or changing, like, you can’t… you’re not allowed to do that.

727 01:10:24.200 ⇒ 01:10:30.639 Uttam Kumaran: you know, you’re not allowed to come to the conversation, learn about us, Google, and then change your price, and then…

728 01:10:31.000 ⇒ 01:10:33.630 Uttam Kumaran: I want upfront to be like, this is what we charge.

729 01:10:34.440 ⇒ 01:10:35.629 Uttam Kumaran: And we’ll see.

730 01:10:37.990 ⇒ 01:10:44.960 Uttam Kumaran: like, if we can’t get great people, then we will… we’ll have to, you know, reconsider, but I feel like these are pretty in line with what we said.

731 01:10:51.100 ⇒ 01:10:55.829 Uttam Kumaran: I think what we’re gonna find, though, is for, like, a super senior U.S. people.

732 01:10:58.400 ⇒ 01:11:01.940 Uttam Kumaran: I wonder, like, how they’re gonna be able to eclipse 200 here.

733 01:11:04.830 ⇒ 01:11:08.150 Uttam Kumaran: But… I mean, we… yeah.

734 01:11:10.620 ⇒ 01:11:15.520 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’m worried if you go to a Jasmine, like, what she’s gonna ask for.

735 01:11:17.680 ⇒ 01:11:19.959 Uttam Kumaran: And how you… how we kind of, like, work with that.

736 01:11:20.470 ⇒ 01:11:21.190 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

737 01:11:25.350 ⇒ 01:11:28.140 Uttam Kumaran: But… this is pretty in line, I mean…

738 01:11:28.990 ⇒ 01:11:34.700 Uttam Kumaran: this is pretty in line with, like, what we’ve been doing. Spoke… like, Sam, Greg are here.

739 01:11:35.020 ⇒ 01:11:40.530 Uttam Kumaran: Zoran has the… Eastern Europe modifier, which gets them to, like, 65.

740 01:11:43.100 ⇒ 01:11:44.030 Uttam Kumaran: You know?

741 01:11:48.820 ⇒ 01:11:52.470 Robert Tseng: I wanna sh- I wanna share something, yeah.

742 01:11:53.900 ⇒ 01:11:57.440 Robert Tseng: I have to join from my computer now, okay.

743 01:11:57.790 ⇒ 01:11:59.190 Uttam Kumaran: Was it a link?

744 01:11:59.700 ⇒ 01:12:01.930 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’ll send a couple links.

745 01:12:03.780 ⇒ 01:12:05.629 Robert Tseng: Into our leadership channel.

746 01:12:09.370 ⇒ 01:12:16.919 Robert Tseng: So… I just think that, let’s see today…

747 01:12:18.030 ⇒ 01:12:21.370 Robert Tseng: Maybe you’ve seen these guys, but.

748 01:12:22.440 ⇒ 01:12:25.570 Uttam Kumaran: For, I think I know what you’re gonna pull up.

749 01:12:25.810 ⇒ 01:12:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: But maybe not.

750 01:12:28.870 ⇒ 01:12:40.749 Robert Tseng: So, 10X is, like, the morning brew guy’s AI thing. I mean, he’s a marketer, he doesn’t know crap about tech, but, like, you know, I think… I like the way that he’s positioning,

751 01:12:42.850 ⇒ 01:12:49.339 Robert Tseng: his… his thing more than most of the other consultancies I see out there.

752 01:12:49.570 ⇒ 01:12:58.890 Robert Tseng: And I think when they’re hiring, when I look at, like, the people that are recently joining, they’re hiring the people with the background that we want. Like, they have a dude, like.

753 01:12:59.420 ⇒ 01:13:15.399 Robert Tseng: around 5… 5 years experience, you know, 3 to 5 years of experience at, like, an EY Parthenon or something, or… and they’re bringing them in. And they’re, like, as an AI strategist, 100 to 200K a year, which is such a wide range, and it’s just like, alright, like.

754 01:13:15.550 ⇒ 01:13:29.610 Robert Tseng: and then there’s more opportunities for further upside tied to your output. Or even, like, their AI engineer, like, job description is ridiculous. It’s like… it’s… I don’t know, like, he gets away with, like, putting these ridiculous ranges out there.

755 01:13:29.890 ⇒ 01:13:32.090 Robert Tseng: And…

756 01:13:32.250 ⇒ 01:13:41.869 Robert Tseng: Well, whatever it is, like, I think he’s hiring people with the background that, like, we’re… we’re looking for. So, I think there’s something…

757 01:13:41.870 ⇒ 01:13:50.290 Uttam Kumaran: Do you feel like his range is because you have the… the Lieberman, like, touch? Like, everybody knows him, and the marketing is what’s buying him the…

758 01:13:50.720 ⇒ 01:13:51.960 Uttam Kumaran: Like, right?

759 01:13:51.960 ⇒ 01:13:57.899 Robert Tseng: anybody’s getting paid $800K a year at his company, like, I don’t even believe they necessarily make that much right now, but, like…

760 01:13:58.070 ⇒ 01:14:07.640 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, for him to just be able to put that as… as, like, a way to attract people, like, to… to at least talk to them, like, I’m…

761 01:14:08.000 ⇒ 01:14:10.949 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I mean, I wonder, you know.

762 01:14:11.700 ⇒ 01:14:12.919 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, so I think that.

763 01:14:12.920 ⇒ 01:14:13.840 Robert Tseng: There’s one underneath there, yeah.

764 01:14:13.840 ⇒ 01:14:20.689 Uttam Kumaran: We should… we should figure out… so this is where I don’t think what’s reflected here, Clarence, is… is one, coming in and helping on sales.

765 01:14:20.920 ⇒ 01:14:32.789 Uttam Kumaran: Referring new business in, recruiting more people, or expanding existing business. Those four categories, we should map out that if you were to do those four, yeah, we’d pay you, like…

766 01:14:32.950 ⇒ 01:14:43.390 Uttam Kumaran: We should think about what our… what our recruiting referral dollars are. We should figure out what… if you were to refer new business, what could we give? If you come in and you help with expansion.

767 01:14:44.360 ⇒ 01:14:47.740 Uttam Kumaran: You know what, and maybe we should just add that so it increases the range.

768 01:14:47.740 ⇒ 01:15:04.679 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so I’ll add it to this table, but I pretty much took all the things that we talked about, like, as proposed offerings, and had Gemini price it out for me, and it all comes out to, like, another $30K in value, and that includes, like.

769 01:15:04.870 ⇒ 01:15:08.600 Clarence Stone: Just a really conservative $2,000 for spot rewards.

770 01:15:08.930 ⇒ 01:15:18.229 Clarence Stone: and not even the 20% bonus that’s tied to, you know, the actual role itself. So, like…

771 01:15:18.230 ⇒ 01:15:34.269 Clarence Stone: You could, technically, if you came in at 30 bucks an hour, you’re making a base 62, but really, out the door, if you did your absolute best, you’re looking at somewhere close to, like, 115, because we didn’t talk about all those different bonus modifiers that you, Tom, just talked about.

772 01:15:35.460 ⇒ 01:15:39.770 Clarence Stone: So you can say it’s, like, 60 to 150, almost.

773 01:15:40.110 ⇒ 01:15:49.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, what you guys showed me on the delivery… that’s why I renamed the tab to Delivery Incentive. That’s just the incentive on the delivery side. But there’s all these other rewards.

774 01:15:49.700 ⇒ 01:16:04.339 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, I want to be able to, like, kind of stack, like, everything, because, like, you know, we’re talking to a couple people, Kayla comes back, she’s like, oh, I want 150 total comp. It’s like, to me, it’s not that ridiculous, like, sure, we pushed her base down to, like, 90 to 100, but, like, yeah.

775 01:16:04.340 ⇒ 01:16:12.570 Uttam Kumaran: It’s kind of ridiculous, but she can’t… she doesn’t have any proving experience doing half the stuff on there. Oh, totally, yeah. So then… but then I’m like, what do we…

776 01:16:12.750 ⇒ 01:16:18.530 Uttam Kumaran: what do we do? So either, yeah, you could come in, if you were to do all those things, you could easily make 150 here.

777 01:16:18.530 ⇒ 01:16:18.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

778 01:16:18.880 ⇒ 01:16:23.140 Uttam Kumaran: But if you can’t do those things, then no, and you kind of want people to shoot their shot, you know?

779 01:16:23.140 ⇒ 01:16:23.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

780 01:16:23.830 ⇒ 01:16:42.879 Robert Tseng: 10X is actually hiring, like, the same… the same person, the same role. I, like, I want to even rip that job description, and they’re billing at $150, for somebody with 5 to 10 years of experience in that. So, she obviously doesn’t have that, so I think we could cut her down. But, I mean, you know, nowadays, people are just, like, looking, and they’re just, like, they’re just throwing numbers out there.

781 01:16:42.880 ⇒ 01:16:50.889 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, but that’s why I wanted to spend time doing this, because, dude, look at the list of shit we offer. We’ve never wrote it in this way.

782 01:16:51.250 ⇒ 01:17:09.279 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, this is… I almost, like… when you… if you see this, and you go to someone who works at, like, a big company where they’re going in office half the week, risk is almost coming, where they probably have to go full-time. It sucks. Like, dude, there’s no competing with us. This is, like, almost like…

783 01:17:09.340 ⇒ 01:17:16.380 Uttam Kumaran: when I think about, like, the Lauren situation, I almost, like… this is sort of what was in my head with what I talked about, which is, like.

784 01:17:16.380 ⇒ 01:17:29.499 Uttam Kumaran: you’re totally making the wrong decision here, because you’re advising over $10K that we already gave you 20, and you want more? It’s like you’re… you’re… you made a mis… complete mistake. You completely…

785 01:17:29.590 ⇒ 01:17:39.450 Uttam Kumaran: misjudge what we are, and I want to just make it super clear, and I want to put prices on these, and then be like, here’s… here’s, like, what you could make if you really hustle.

786 01:17:39.870 ⇒ 01:17:42.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Like, for example, if a Wish gets that Hedra.

787 01:17:42.920 ⇒ 01:17:45.049 Uttam Kumaran: Opportunity, we should pay him more.

788 01:17:45.280 ⇒ 01:17:46.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

789 01:17:46.080 ⇒ 01:17:51.190 Uttam Kumaran: So, I just want… I just think, maybe in this call, we should think of what these are.

790 01:17:51.700 ⇒ 01:17:53.089 Uttam Kumaran: And then just, like…

791 01:17:53.400 ⇒ 01:18:03.870 Uttam Kumaran: Right, and for example, Zoron, right? What if you say, cool, Zoron, we approve your services? What I’m gonna do is I’m gonna put you in touch, like, with,

792 01:18:04.120 ⇒ 01:18:07.020 Uttam Kumaran: the element head of e-comm, or whatever.

793 01:18:07.020 ⇒ 01:18:07.600 Robert Tseng: Yep.

794 01:18:07.760 ⇒ 01:18:10.750 Uttam Kumaran: Go talk to them. If you get it, then you get this percentage of the deal.

795 01:18:12.170 ⇒ 01:18:13.240 Uttam Kumaran: Easy.

796 01:18:13.490 ⇒ 01:18:16.940 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, you get to work the deal, and you get a percentage off it, yeah, sure.

797 01:18:17.160 ⇒ 01:18:17.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

798 01:18:19.340 ⇒ 01:18:25.060 Uttam Kumaran: Because, dude, this allows us to push the base down, which is… which is the risk. That is the true…

799 01:18:25.380 ⇒ 01:18:34.379 Uttam Kumaran: like, thing where we have to get committed to, versus moving as much of the comp into these are much better for us, at least in the short term.

800 01:18:36.520 ⇒ 01:18:44.190 Uttam Kumaran: So, I don’t know what we’ve thought about for these before,

801 01:18:45.640 ⇒ 01:18:50.830 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t know if we just want to match it to what we thought about offering, like, external referrals.

802 01:18:51.200 ⇒ 01:18:58.930 Uttam Kumaran: But… Like, we’ve always said, like, 10% of, like, 6 months net revenue.

803 01:19:01.650 ⇒ 01:19:03.670 Uttam Kumaran: Dino, or something like that, I don’t know.

804 01:19:03.670 ⇒ 01:19:04.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

805 01:19:09.440 ⇒ 01:19:12.289 Robert Tseng: This is not in the same spreadsheet, is it?

806 01:19:12.290 ⇒ 01:19:13.429 Uttam Kumaran: It is, it is.

807 01:19:13.430 ⇒ 01:19:16.369 Robert Tseng: This is… oh, Total Rewards. Oh, okay. I’m on the wrong tab.

808 01:19:35.530 ⇒ 01:19:36.320 Robert Tseng: Okay.

809 01:19:36.540 ⇒ 01:19:41.849 Robert Tseng: I can help, like, throw some of the ideas on… onto here, but I’m gonna have to leave in, like, 10 minutes.

810 01:19:41.850 ⇒ 01:19:42.640 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

811 01:19:42.640 ⇒ 01:19:43.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

812 01:19:43.410 ⇒ 01:19:48.039 Robert Tseng: My father-in-law is, like, texting me he wants, he wants dinner.

813 01:19:48.080 ⇒ 01:20:01.329 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so this… but this is… this is on… I would say, whatever you… whatever our cost, just put something here for… that relates to our cost of sales. Yeah. But I do think that I can get… this will easily, probably.

814 01:20:01.560 ⇒ 01:20:06.739 Uttam Kumaran: get you another 50 to 100… 50K in terms of the range, you know?

815 01:20:06.740 ⇒ 01:20:07.969 Robert Tseng: Totally, yeah.

816 01:20:07.970 ⇒ 01:20:13.459 Uttam Kumaran: So, this is our… And then also, dude, I told Clarence I want to publish this somewhere.

817 01:20:15.770 ⇒ 01:20:21.020 Uttam Kumaran: So that I don’t have to go through… like, I literally just want to go… when we talk to candidates, I kind of want to be like, go look up…

818 01:20:21.520 ⇒ 01:20:26.649 Uttam Kumaran: our Notion… well, I’ll use Notion to publish it on our domain. I mean, go look up our latest…

819 01:20:26.780 ⇒ 01:20:29.110 Uttam Kumaran: Way we do comp, it’s completely open.

820 01:20:29.360 ⇒ 01:20:42.360 Clarence Stone: So, Robert, I think I’m gonna split these Brainforge rewards into two categories, like, the variable ones that are dependent on your performance, and then, like, the other Brainforge rewards, or, like, benefits that everyone’s getting.

821 01:20:43.100 ⇒ 01:21:06.919 Clarence Stone: And that way, like, if you had somebody that says, I want to arrive at 150, you could literally just go through the salary table and say your base would be, like, 85, and then figure out, based on their skill set, you know, what bonuses they could work towards to get to the gap, right? And say that’s another, like, 45 here, and then you have, like, all these benefits that you get for being part of Brainforge is another, like, 10, and then you’re close to, like.

822 01:21:06.920 ⇒ 01:21:15.879 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we do it, like, when you go to the car dealership, you’re like, dude, am I getting a deal here? And they put all these line items in front of you, like, look at all this free shit we’re giving you.

823 01:21:15.880 ⇒ 01:21:26.170 Clarence Stone: Yeah, like here. Boom. Right? Like, all of a sudden, you’re at 150. Oh, look. But a lot of it is driven by what you do, how much you put in. Like, if you’re gonna show up.

824 01:21:33.780 ⇒ 01:21:34.940 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Okay.

825 01:21:35.590 ⇒ 01:21:42.999 Uttam Kumaran: So I feel good about that, feel good about salary ranges. Can we talk… can we look at, sheet one? Yeah, so this is…

826 01:21:46.230 ⇒ 01:21:54.309 Clarence Stone: So, we talked a lot about that, and I’ve got to expand more on the what for these calls, but just starting with, like, some…

827 01:21:54.480 ⇒ 01:22:11.409 Clarence Stone: you know, updates to the daily ritual. I proposed a new methodology for stand-up, which really just involves everybody part of the engagement leader team talking. So, that’s still gonna be the standing daily. That’s for each,

828 01:22:11.540 ⇒ 01:22:29.129 Clarence Stone: service, pipeline, so it’s gonna be… right. You said… you tell them there’s… currently, it’s… Robert run… Robert runs one, and you run one, but Oisha’s gonna run one, and Robert’s gonna keep his. Is there gonna be a separate one for AI? I mean, there’s only one AI project right now.

829 01:22:29.390 ⇒ 01:22:32.450 Uttam Kumaran: There’s two… there’s two AI projects, the…

830 01:22:32.560 ⇒ 01:22:36.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, there’s Andy, and then there’s, .

831 01:22:36.980 ⇒ 01:22:37.610 Clarence Stone: Oh, well…

832 01:22:37.610 ⇒ 01:22:38.480 Uttam Kumaran: Lilo.

833 01:22:39.850 ⇒ 01:22:42.720 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna, yeah, I wanna sep- I wanna separate it out.

834 01:22:42.920 ⇒ 01:22:43.800 Clarence Stone: Got it, got it.

835 01:22:44.060 ⇒ 01:22:47.950 Clarence Stone: Okay, so… like…

836 01:22:53.260 ⇒ 01:22:57.009 Clarence Stone: Should Gabe run his, or are you gonna run it, the AI right now?

837 01:22:58.000 ⇒ 01:23:02.130 Uttam Kumaran: That’s gonna be dependent on what kind of answers I get for the questions.

838 01:23:07.620 ⇒ 01:23:11.900 Uttam Kumaran: So, wait, so we’re gonna have one… Buy.

839 01:23:11.900 ⇒ 01:23:15.590 Clarence Stone: It’s gonna be one stand-up for each category.

840 01:23:15.590 ⇒ 01:23:16.949 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, yeah.

841 01:23:18.200 ⇒ 01:23:20.170 Clarence Stone: and you wrote out CS.

842 01:23:20.830 ⇒ 01:23:24.690 Uttam Kumaran: Well, each SL is gonna run this, right? So it’s Awash, Robert, Sam.

843 01:23:24.690 ⇒ 01:23:26.500 Clarence Stone: AI, data, and…

844 01:23:28.240 ⇒ 01:23:31.560 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a Wish, Robert, Sam, I’m not gonna be on any of them.

845 01:23:31.560 ⇒ 01:23:32.030 Clarence Stone: Okay.

846 01:23:32.030 ⇒ 01:23:33.589 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna run any of them.

847 01:23:33.600 ⇒ 01:23:34.680 Clarence Stone: Okay, perfect.

848 01:23:37.520 ⇒ 01:23:40.770 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s why I’m still… I’m just gonna play the role…

849 01:23:41.080 ⇒ 01:23:47.469 Uttam Kumaran: that I’m assigned here, which is CSO and, like, 5, or whatever my name is, I’m gonna literally be that.

850 01:23:49.760 ⇒ 01:23:55.580 Robert Tseng: And I’m not gonna, yeah, I’m not gonna take a bonus or nothing, it’s just out of the goodwill of my heart.

851 01:23:55.580 ⇒ 01:23:58.660 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna ask for any of this.

852 01:24:02.310 ⇒ 01:24:05.559 Uttam Kumaran: So then we basically said we’re gonna start with,

853 01:24:09.040 ⇒ 01:24:10.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay, great.

854 01:24:11.970 ⇒ 01:24:19.340 Clarence Stone: Right, and do we want to loop back on how I was imagining these calls could go, or do you want to talk about the weekly?

855 01:24:19.340 ⇒ 01:24:28.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let’s just talk about the week. So there’s gonna be something daily, service-led, leads, talks to the CSOs, and then, like, the EMs have prepared a bunch of stuff.

856 01:24:28.650 ⇒ 01:24:31.160 Uttam Kumaran: So that is 30… that’s 30 minutes each.

857 01:24:32.230 ⇒ 01:24:33.330 Uttam Kumaran: In the morning.

858 01:24:37.720 ⇒ 01:24:38.660 Clarence Stone: Yep.

859 01:24:39.250 ⇒ 01:24:40.599 Clarence Stone: Oh, you wanna…

860 01:24:40.920 ⇒ 01:24:42.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I’m just gonna put 30.

861 01:24:43.720 ⇒ 01:24:51.780 Uttam Kumaran: Then weekly, we have the, like, yeah, the EP plus CSO, Meat.

862 01:24:53.130 ⇒ 01:25:00.609 Uttam Kumaran: The service leader reviews… And then, also, we’re gonna do… these, like…

863 01:25:02.340 ⇒ 01:25:07.720 Uttam Kumaran: CSO plus… CSOs and me, EPs and me, weekly.

864 01:25:08.500 ⇒ 01:25:09.330 Uttam Kumaran: Right.

865 01:25:10.080 ⇒ 01:25:17.139 Clarence Stone: Yep. So, mmm… which one?

866 01:25:17.140 ⇒ 01:25:19.400 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s more just for, like.

867 01:25:19.730 ⇒ 01:25:22.609 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just gonna be mentoring them on how to do better.

868 01:25:23.370 ⇒ 01:25:26.080 Clarence Stone: So, I think you should… you should do the health meeting.

869 01:25:29.520 ⇒ 01:25:30.150 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

870 01:25:32.480 ⇒ 01:25:34.910 Clarence Stone: But we’re not gonna meet the CSOs.

871 01:25:35.370 ⇒ 01:25:36.570 Uttam Kumaran: Alone.

872 01:25:36.780 ⇒ 01:25:38.270 Uttam Kumaran: Or the EPs alone.

873 01:25:40.900 ⇒ 01:25:42.020 Clarence Stone: Do you want to?

874 01:25:42.320 ⇒ 01:25:43.789 Clarence Stone: Have a separate one for them?

875 01:25:44.160 ⇒ 01:25:46.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, at least for the first few weeks.

876 01:25:46.920 ⇒ 01:25:47.660 Clarence Stone: Okay.

877 01:25:48.390 ⇒ 01:25:49.770 Clarence Stone: I guess, like.

878 01:25:50.320 ⇒ 01:25:56.100 Clarence Stone: we should just call this, like, mentorship calls or something like that. That way it doesn’t fall into a regular cycle, right?

879 01:25:56.100 ⇒ 01:26:00.479 Uttam Kumaran: You could do it weekly, and then I’m gonna move it to once a month, where it’s just me and the CSOs meet.

880 01:26:02.060 ⇒ 01:26:04.229 Uttam Kumaran: And then me and the EPs meet.

881 01:26:06.010 ⇒ 01:26:14.160 Uttam Kumaran: Because the EP stuff will be, like, how are we doing Gantt charts, how are we on linear, talking about that. For the CSOs, it’ll be more client-facing stuff. But yeah.

882 01:26:15.230 ⇒ 01:26:16.370 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly.

883 01:26:26.630 ⇒ 01:26:28.160 Uttam Kumaran: And then monthly…

884 01:26:28.390 ⇒ 01:26:37.059 Uttam Kumaran: Well, bi-weekly, there’s gonna be a sales and delivery. So, Robert, this is where, like, I basically said, like, this would probably be… this would probably be Luke.

885 01:26:37.630 ⇒ 01:26:38.140 Uttam Kumaran: Right.

886 01:26:38.470 ⇒ 01:26:39.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

887 01:26:39.740 ⇒ 01:26:44.120 Uttam Kumaran: So, bi-weekly sales and delivery meet to talk about

888 01:26:44.570 ⇒ 01:26:48.810 Uttam Kumaran: Either, delivery-led opportunities, new sales opportunities.

889 01:26:49.710 ⇒ 01:26:53.339 Uttam Kumaran: And then there’s gonna be, a head of EM meeting

890 01:26:55.100 ⇒ 01:26:58.249 Uttam Kumaran: Which is, like, resourcing allocations, margin, recruiting.

891 01:27:02.640 ⇒ 01:27:03.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

892 01:27:03.330 ⇒ 01:27:03.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

893 01:27:04.280 ⇒ 01:27:10.679 Uttam Kumaran: And then the… and then the last piece we’re gonna change is we’re not gonna do kickoffs. We’re gonna do… we’re gonna have two…

894 01:27:11.560 ⇒ 01:27:16.899 Uttam Kumaran: We’re either gonna be able to do new client kickoffs on the 1st, Or the third Monday?

895 01:27:17.110 ⇒ 01:27:17.650 Robert Tseng: Yep.

896 01:27:17.970 ⇒ 01:27:23.200 Uttam Kumaran: Alternating weeks with the… Basically, this meeting.

897 01:27:23.380 ⇒ 01:27:25.200 Uttam Kumaran: This, sales meeting.

898 01:27:27.210 ⇒ 01:27:29.250 Uttam Kumaran: So… Yeah.

899 01:27:37.270 ⇒ 01:27:42.670 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think my biggest thing is gonna be, Clarence, like, how we do this client presentation dry run.

900 01:27:43.680 ⇒ 01:27:45.040 Uttam Kumaran: And then…

901 01:27:48.360 ⇒ 01:27:53.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, basically, it’s gonna be… it’s gonna be new for all the new CSOs.

902 01:27:53.600 ⇒ 01:27:55.379 Uttam Kumaran: Doing the decks and stuff?

903 01:27:55.380 ⇒ 01:27:55.940 Clarence Stone: Yep.

904 01:27:56.090 ⇒ 01:28:01.400 Uttam Kumaran: So, I want them to, like, try to get it done by Wednesday, so that they… they don’t scramble on Thursdays.

905 01:28:01.760 ⇒ 01:28:21.070 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so I imagine this working as… so I say audience here, Robert, because we talked about, like, the fact that you’re, like, Brainforge has so many other people who are, like, helping in different ways, and it doesn’t have to always be you two that provide feedback on a… on a presentation, so… Yeah.

906 01:28:21.070 ⇒ 01:28:40.280 Clarence Stone: the format should be, one, telling me about the client, who are they, and then now that you have those statistics on the client, like, like opportunity size, how complete is the project, right? Like, those kinds of initial updates for the audience, whoever’s listening. And then two is, like.

907 01:28:40.280 ⇒ 01:28:52.069 Clarence Stone: explain where they are in the project overall. So EP should say, like, okay, now that you know about the client, this is where we are, right? And we’ve presented X, Y, and Z already, the topic of this week is this, and then just.

908 01:28:52.500 ⇒ 01:28:54.700 Clarence Stone: Apply into the presentation, take feedback.

909 01:28:55.030 ⇒ 01:28:55.610 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

910 01:28:55.930 ⇒ 01:28:56.680 Robert Tseng: Okay.

911 01:28:57.380 ⇒ 01:29:11.420 Clarence Stone: The goal is anybody, like, regardless of whether they’ve been actively working on this client or not, should be able to understand, you know, the value that’s being driven, this presentation that’s happening, right? And you’re gonna get different perspectives and feedback from this, for sure.

912 01:29:15.400 ⇒ 01:29:24.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I like that. I want other people to chime in more on things, develop an eye for the feedback, not just… I mean, we know that Utom and I are the feedback bottlenecks, so…

913 01:29:24.630 ⇒ 01:29:28.289 Robert Tseng: But it’s just, like, a lot of this stuff doesn’t have to… Kind of…

914 01:29:28.290 ⇒ 01:29:32.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Well, now we’re gonna start to get Greg. Greg will be there, Zoran will be in those ones.

915 01:29:32.810 ⇒ 01:29:33.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

916 01:29:33.420 ⇒ 01:29:35.300 Uttam Kumaran: Ryan, they’ll be good at giving feedback.

917 01:29:35.420 ⇒ 01:29:36.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

918 01:29:37.680 ⇒ 01:29:38.190 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

919 01:29:39.760 ⇒ 01:30:02.780 Clarence Stone: The second one, I, you know, I personally think we should schedule it for now, but it should happen naturally between the EP and CSO throughout a life cycle of a project. Like, this is just a 30-minute time block set aside to make sure that these two talk about everything that’s going on with the project in terms of timelines, completion.

920 01:30:02.780 ⇒ 01:30:16.790 Clarence Stone: And also a moment for the CSO to share what they’re learning about the client, right? Because the goal is always to expand, you know, Brainforge’s base with the client, so, like, what are they hearing, what are they seeing, and make sure that’s being all written down.

921 01:30:16.820 ⇒ 01:30:32.279 Clarence Stone: So, this reduces the amount of complaints that you’re gonna get from these planners that say, this is so much document generation, right? Okay, well, we’re gonna set up 30 minutes, and you update all your documents every week. Like, no shit, by after this, like, it should be fully up to date.

922 01:30:32.470 ⇒ 01:30:33.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

923 01:30:33.010 ⇒ 01:30:33.600 Clarence Stone: Right.

924 01:30:34.700 ⇒ 01:30:40.690 Clarence Stone: But as they grow up, maybe mature adults, you shouldn’t need this. Like, find the time to kind of update those, you know…

925 01:30:40.690 ⇒ 01:30:56.480 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s what, like, Amber was saying… like, Amber was trying to tell me, and she’s like, it’s just a lot, but then I have to… one thing that we have to just remind people when we roll this out is that this is not a second job, and the expectations for the job are written down, and it’s our belief

926 01:30:56.490 ⇒ 01:31:13.189 Uttam Kumaran: given that Robert and I are doing most of these across many of the clients already, or it’s already happening, is that these are all possible with the amount of time allocated. So, just want to make that clear. And then, so I’m going to be running CSO stuff on my clients, so I’m gonna explain how I’m doing it, and so.

927 01:31:13.190 ⇒ 01:31:15.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we get to model it for them, yeah.

928 01:31:15.070 ⇒ 01:31:17.679 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I’m gonna pre-book all of my meetings.

929 01:31:17.930 ⇒ 01:31:27.639 Uttam Kumaran: and have a Wednesday dry run, like, I’m gonna do this like I was running it. So, when I meet with all the CSOs, I’ll be like, here’s how I’m doing it, you can do that or not.

930 01:31:27.910 ⇒ 01:31:30.360 Uttam Kumaran: You know?

931 01:31:30.730 ⇒ 01:31:34.509 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so, so my, my prior technical self

932 01:31:34.800 ⇒ 01:31:53.929 Clarence Stone: if you explained it to me in the opposite, I think I’d be more convinced you, Tom. Like, if somebody said to me, you have two options. One is to slice off a portion of your time and do your project management for each of the projects you’re on, or we give you a BA or a PM that knows nothing about what you do.

933 01:31:54.390 ⇒ 01:31:58.019 Clarence Stone: And it’s just gonna give you instructions. Is that the life you want?

934 01:31:58.440 ⇒ 01:31:59.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

935 01:31:59.460 ⇒ 01:32:05.029 Clarence Stone: And if anyone with a shred of experience, having lived through that, knows what the answer is here.

936 01:32:05.030 ⇒ 01:32:07.100 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, most of the people live through it here.

937 01:32:07.100 ⇒ 01:32:09.180 Clarence Stone: little outcome.

938 01:32:09.180 ⇒ 01:32:12.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, a lot of people lived through it here, and we stopped doing it, yeah.

939 01:32:16.110 ⇒ 01:32:16.990 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

940 01:32:20.780 ⇒ 01:32:29.809 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, I feel good. And then, Rob, we also worked on, like, what are the roles after this, so we can… we can label those and put those in for a conversation tomorrow, maybe, but…

941 01:32:29.930 ⇒ 01:32:34.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. We did look at, like, what does vertical growth or horizontal growth look like?

942 01:32:35.550 ⇒ 01:32:42.430 Clarence Stone: We’ve got it in this table here now, too, on the growth section. No ceiling at Brainforge, if you want to take a look.

943 01:32:42.430 ⇒ 01:32:44.590 Robert Tseng: Alright, I’ll look at the updates then, Doc.

944 01:32:44.720 ⇒ 01:32:52.150 Robert Tseng: Hopefully my… my… my stuff will be ready by tomorrow. I just… I just needed a… yeah, I have a… I have another spreadsheet with some stuff, so…

945 01:32:52.150 ⇒ 01:32:52.620 Clarence Stone: neat.

946 01:32:52.620 ⇒ 01:32:54.110 Robert Tseng: I’ll share that with you guys soon.

947 01:32:54.670 ⇒ 01:32:59.349 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think this is good, guys. I feel better. I’m still really, really nervous.

948 01:32:59.620 ⇒ 01:33:08.650 Uttam Kumaran: that this is not gonna work, but I don’t know. Don’t know if we have a choice. Dude, my only choice is we have to go get PMs again, because there’s no way…

949 01:33:08.990 ⇒ 01:33:11.519 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just so much PM, it’s just so much, like…

950 01:33:12.100 ⇒ 01:33:20.350 Uttam Kumaran: PM organization stuff, but, like, I don’t know. I really don’t want to do that. But I’m hopeful. I just don’t know how people are going to take the incentives, but…

951 01:33:20.610 ⇒ 01:33:28.209 Uttam Kumaran: hopefully they take it well, and then basically, Clarence for the first… Yeah, we’ll keep refining this over the week. We should do more scenario, and kind of just…

952 01:33:29.130 ⇒ 01:33:33.300 Uttam Kumaran: For the first 4-8 weeks, Clarence, I just want to keep bumpers on everything.

953 01:33:33.300 ⇒ 01:33:35.749 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I don’t really want to let some people.

954 01:33:36.190 ⇒ 01:33:39.250 Robert Tseng: Get crushed and fail and, like, fuck up some clients.

955 01:33:39.270 ⇒ 01:33:47.829 Uttam Kumaran: So I want to create some… this is why I want to have these mentorship meetings, or some of these bumpers, until, like, 4 weeks, 6 weeks in, where we’re like, okay.

956 01:33:48.020 ⇒ 01:33:49.529 Uttam Kumaran: Could start to let go.

957 01:33:52.190 ⇒ 01:33:55.150 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I expect them all to be checking in with

958 01:33:55.470 ⇒ 01:34:07.809 Clarence Stone: like, you two are… they’re more than welcome to check in with me if they’re ever stuck and not sure what they need to do. Like, it shouldn’t be that they’re sitting there going, like, I think I have to do this, or… and I don’t know how. Like…

959 01:34:07.810 ⇒ 01:34:12.660 Uttam Kumaran: I just want to make sure that at least… there’s, like, at least 4… in case they decide to not…

960 01:34:12.850 ⇒ 01:34:14.210 Uttam Kumaran: Check in with us.

961 01:34:14.630 ⇒ 01:34:17.840 Uttam Kumaran: We at least can catch that within 48 hours, you know?

962 01:34:17.840 ⇒ 01:34:18.560 Clarence Stone: Yeah.

963 01:34:18.560 ⇒ 01:34:21.080 Uttam Kumaran: Because, I just wouldn’t…

964 01:34:21.240 ⇒ 01:34:32.269 Uttam Kumaran: just from experience, like, I just wouldn’t believe, because some people just don’t know, or they haven’t seen it, and they’ll wait till Thursday morning to just sort of mess up a client call. I just want to catch things early, so… yeah.

965 01:34:37.490 ⇒ 01:34:38.240 Clarence Stone: Cool, that makes sense.

966 01:34:38.240 ⇒ 01:34:38.880 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

967 01:34:40.960 ⇒ 01:34:47.380 Uttam Kumaran: And then let’s also… I’ll also… I don’t know, maybe at some point later this week, we could send this to Vixel, too, Robert.

968 01:34:47.890 ⇒ 01:34:55.249 Clarence Stone: Yeah, you mentioned Vixel, but I didn’t know exactly who to invite, so I just added Holly to the main doc.

969 01:34:56.330 ⇒ 01:35:04.299 Robert Tseng: Okay, let me, they’re good about reading things in advance, they’ll leave comments on everything, so we should just send it to that channel in advance, and I’m sure…

970 01:35:04.540 ⇒ 01:35:07.459 Robert Tseng: I’m sure Arthur or Ali would be willing to jump on.

971 01:35:07.760 ⇒ 01:35:11.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I’ll send you who it is. Probably Otter.

972 01:35:13.490 ⇒ 01:35:14.830 Clarence Stone: Oh, got it.

973 01:35:16.810 ⇒ 01:35:17.920 Robert Tseng: RIP.

974 01:35:27.140 ⇒ 01:35:27.550 Clarence Stone: Gotcha.

975 01:35:27.550 ⇒ 01:35:30.249 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude, this post-dog careers is what I thought you were gonna send me.

976 01:35:30.670 ⇒ 01:35:31.420 Robert Tseng: Okay.

977 01:35:31.660 ⇒ 01:35:35.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s exactly it. Except, like, minus all this other BS.

978 01:35:35.560 ⇒ 01:35:37.409 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, we don’t need that fancy UI.

979 01:35:37.410 ⇒ 01:35:41.470 Uttam Kumaran: I literally want to do this, and I want to do the calculator, too. That’s my stretch goal.

980 01:35:41.790 ⇒ 01:35:42.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

981 01:35:42.440 ⇒ 01:35:47.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I just want… yeah, why not do it like this? Like, you know, I don’t know.

982 01:36:09.340 ⇒ 01:36:13.590 Uttam Kumaran: And then, Robert, there’s, Robin messaged, back on the…

983 01:36:13.650 ⇒ 01:36:14.849 Robert Tseng: I saw that, yeah.

984 01:36:14.850 ⇒ 01:36:15.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

985 01:36:16.800 ⇒ 01:36:18.380 Robert Tseng: Is there something I need to action?

986 01:36:19.560 ⇒ 01:36:24.969 Uttam Kumaran: Well, she said that the California entity is also still there.

987 01:36:27.650 ⇒ 01:36:32.849 Robert Tseng: Oh, right, okay, I… that seems weird to me, because I definitely didn’t renew it, so…

988 01:36:33.450 ⇒ 01:36:35.310 Uttam Kumaran: I think you have to wind it down.

989 01:36:35.800 ⇒ 01:36:36.440 Robert Tseng: Oh.

990 01:36:36.800 ⇒ 01:36:38.730 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t think it auto-cancels.

991 01:36:39.170 ⇒ 01:36:40.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

992 01:36:40.680 ⇒ 01:36:44.090 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’m… I’m trying to send some stuff to my…

993 01:36:44.250 ⇒ 01:36:48.909 Robert Tseng: accountant to help me take care of it at the end of the year as well, so I guess this will be part of the…

994 01:36:49.040 ⇒ 01:36:50.820 Robert Tseng: I’ll… I’ll look into it tonight.

995 01:36:51.090 ⇒ 01:36:55.009 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, and then we’re… we’re setting up JustWorks for payroll.

996 01:36:55.240 ⇒ 01:36:56.720 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m, like, working through that.

997 01:36:56.990 ⇒ 01:36:57.390 Robert Tseng: Okay.

998 01:36:57.390 ⇒ 01:37:05.249 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, there’s a couple other things that are less priority than that, so…

999 01:37:08.740 ⇒ 01:37:09.400 Robert Tseng: Okay.

1000 01:37:13.470 ⇒ 01:37:14.220 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

1001 01:37:14.580 ⇒ 01:37:17.190 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, that’s kind of all I had, guys.

1002 01:37:17.960 ⇒ 01:37:18.810 Clarence Stone: Cool.

1003 01:37:18.810 ⇒ 01:37:21.919 Uttam Kumaran: So maybe let’s plan on chatting maybe tomorrow afternoon again?

1004 01:37:22.080 ⇒ 01:37:27.879 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I’m… I’ll be on tomorrow, just continuing to work on stuff, so, yeah, tomorrow afternoon works.

1005 01:37:28.410 ⇒ 01:37:29.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.

1006 01:37:29.470 ⇒ 01:37:32.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah, thanks, Clarence, for hopping on on the…

1007 01:37:32.080 ⇒ 01:37:33.530 Clarence Stone: Yeah, no worries, anytime.

1008 01:37:35.370 ⇒ 01:37:35.940 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

1009 01:37:36.500 ⇒ 01:37:37.820 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, thank you guys.

1010 01:37:38.000 ⇒ 01:37:39.949 Robert Tseng: Alright, talk to you guys later. Bye.

1011 01:37:39.950 ⇒ 01:37:40.600 Clarence Stone: Right?

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