Meeting Title: Offers and Services Pitch Date: 2025-12-05 Meeting participants: Holly Condos, Zoran Selinger, Robert Tseng, Henry Zhao, Awaish Kumar, Amber Lin
WEBVTT
1 00:02:24.510 ⇒ 00:02:25.700 Robert Tseng: Hello?
2 00:02:25.850 ⇒ 00:02:26.860 Holly Condos: Good morning.
3 00:02:29.770 ⇒ 00:02:30.600 Zoran Selinger: Hello, huh?
4 00:02:48.040 ⇒ 00:02:50.780 Holly Condos: Hi, Zoran, I don’t think we’ve met officially.
5 00:02:50.980 ⇒ 00:02:54.699 Zoran Selinger: Hi, Holly. Yeah, I don’t think… I don’t think so either. I don’t know.
6 00:02:54.940 ⇒ 00:03:00.390 Holly Condos: I joined about a month ago. I’m working on partnerships and contracts.
7 00:03:02.370 ⇒ 00:03:04.020 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, nice, nice to meet you.
8 00:03:04.130 ⇒ 00:03:09.629 Zoran Selinger: You know, yeah, I’m… Yeah, I joined, what, two months ago?
9 00:03:09.790 ⇒ 00:03:10.250 Holly Condos: Nice.
10 00:03:10.640 ⇒ 00:03:13.610 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, just working on marketing in general.
11 00:03:13.920 ⇒ 00:03:14.650 Holly Condos: Great.
12 00:03:15.010 ⇒ 00:03:15.660 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
13 00:03:18.990 ⇒ 00:03:25.010 Zoran Selinger: Robert, are we going off of, the ICP document today?
14 00:03:25.170 ⇒ 00:03:31.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I’ll share, I’ll share some stuff. Yeah, we can get started. I’ll post a couple links.
15 00:03:33.500 ⇒ 00:03:39.440 Robert Tseng: So… I actually don’t know what ICP doc you’re looking at, so…
16 00:03:39.440 ⇒ 00:03:48.160 Zoran Selinger: Okay. Oh, actually, also, let me just say, I’m going to probably leave, I’m gonna be here for 45 minutes.
17 00:03:49.590 ⇒ 00:04:00.929 Zoran Selinger: I’m a substitute coach today, so I have to start a training session at 8pm here, so I have to… I’ll have to jump out a little bit earlier.
18 00:04:00.930 ⇒ 00:04:08.610 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no worries, I don’t think this will take the full hour. I’ve shared two links, yeah, we’ll probably keep it to 30 minutes or something.
19 00:04:08.750 ⇒ 00:04:25.389 Robert Tseng: I think, we were supposed to be doing these check-ins every two weeks. I think it’s been… we’ve kind of fell out of cadence a little bit. I was, like, kind of unsure if I even wanted to do this today, because I didn’t have too much prepared, but I figured it’d be good to just get everyone in a room and kind of keep… keep this conversation going.
20 00:04:25.570 ⇒ 00:04:30.679 Robert Tseng: One, I shared a Notion doc. That’s our services page.
21 00:04:30.680 ⇒ 00:04:53.449 Robert Tseng: And so I’ll do a little bit of a walkthrough there, especially since Holly hasn’t joined these calls before, and so I just want to at least give her an overview. And then we’ll probably just spend some time doing more of a, like, exercise, just because… I mean, this is really supposed to be a time where you guys get a chance to kind of pitch, kind of services and offers at us.
22 00:04:53.460 ⇒ 00:05:05.319 Robert Tseng: I don’t really think, nobody really messaged me that they had something they wanted to share, and, I haven’t really worked on… on developing them more the past couple weeks. We’ve just been pretty slammed with
23 00:05:05.400 ⇒ 00:05:19.459 Robert Tseng: A bunch of new clients starting, and just kind of… just with the business. So, yeah, I think, you know, we’ll… we’ll just… we’ll do a little bit today, but I’m not expecting it to… to really,
24 00:05:19.640 ⇒ 00:05:25.710 Robert Tseng: to go, go that far. Okay. So anyway, with that in mind, I’ll share my screen.
25 00:05:25.810 ⇒ 00:05:31.560 Robert Tseng: we’ll start with services. So, Yargis Hawley, if you’ve looked at this before, this is, like, kind of…
26 00:05:31.770 ⇒ 00:05:44.709 Robert Tseng: you know, we have a lot of docs floating around, but for me, this is how I think about positioning our ICPs, like, kind of how we think about building out services.
27 00:05:45.730 ⇒ 00:05:50.000 Robert Tseng: And then, really, like… These are our active offers, so…
28 00:05:50.000 ⇒ 00:05:50.380 Holly Condos: Okay.
29 00:05:50.380 ⇒ 00:05:56.250 Robert Tseng: I think this is pretty much up-to-date. I think these are really the things that we pitch.
30 00:05:57.470 ⇒ 00:06:02.500 Robert Tseng: I would say the data side is more, built out than the AI side, which is…
31 00:06:02.670 ⇒ 00:06:21.530 Robert Tseng: you know, even on this call, we don’t really have a representation from Sam, on the AI… on the AI side of the business for now. So I do think we’re pretty heavy… heavily just kind of doing just core data, like, data work. And, yeah, so I would encourage, like.
32 00:06:21.530 ⇒ 00:06:28.409 Robert Tseng: You know, everyone should just be familiar with the offers that we’re pitching, I think this is…
33 00:06:28.410 ⇒ 00:06:46.709 Robert Tseng: you know, whenever we’re talking about sales, how we approach new prospects and things, like, these are all the things that we’re talking about. So, you know, if we were to add anything to here, like, I would… we have to create a new offer around it. Whereas, like, services is more internal-facing, there’s a lot of docs that are just
34 00:06:46.710 ⇒ 00:06:48.649 Robert Tseng: Blink, but, like.
35 00:06:48.650 ⇒ 00:06:58.540 Robert Tseng: what are the different services that go, that are… are then used to service the offers? I think this is,
36 00:06:58.570 ⇒ 00:07:22.350 Robert Tseng: you know, we’re not really at a place of organizational maturity to really have, like, runbooks for each of our services. I think that’s the goal, and this next class of, like, leads that we’re bringing on, like, I’m really, like, hitting home that, like, this is something that they have to own. We’re kind of, like, stretched to the… to the limit of, like, what our current team is able to…
37 00:07:22.350 ⇒ 00:07:46.639 Robert Tseng: to support, so… and we’re not really interested in building, like, a really large organization that’s just, like, a staff… staff aug model, where we just hire a bunch of engineers and analysts and throw them at problems. Like, we want to be intentional about the services that we’re building, make them more repeatable, take learnings from what we do in our existing work, and use that as a feedback loop to be able to go and
38 00:07:46.660 ⇒ 00:08:05.950 Robert Tseng: execute, more, execute these services across a larger range of clients. So, yeah, I mean, I think this is kind of maybe stuff that most of us have, you know, you’ve heard me talk about often. I don’t think, like, we’ve really moved the needle on, like, getting
39 00:08:06.000 ⇒ 00:08:19.989 Robert Tseng: closer to that over the past two weeks, frankly, so that’s why I’m saying I don’t really think there’s that much more for me to add here. But yeah, I think, you know, that’s… that’s just, like, the primer. Maybe the ask is,
40 00:08:20.600 ⇒ 00:08:33.459 Robert Tseng: you know, I do expect, kind of, when we have these calls, we had one on Tuesday, we had one on Friday, I think that’s a mix-up. It should only be once every two weeks, not two times every two weeks.
41 00:08:33.530 ⇒ 00:08:45.839 Robert Tseng: But, you know, I would ask that you come and you’re ready to pitch. Like, this to me is not… like, I don’t… I don’t really need to sit here and, like, kind of pitch these things to you guys, like, you’re not my buyer, like…
42 00:08:45.840 ⇒ 00:09:09.479 Robert Tseng: I’d rather… I mean, I… and I’m… you know, I… I just… I just got off a call with a PE firm, like, an hour ago, and I pitched a few of these things. So, this really is not for me, and not for my learning, like, I don’t really think this really helps… helps me learn how to sell any better. If anything, it’s just trying to help me to download some of the stuff that I need to do, or upload it into a… into some knowledge base, so that
43 00:09:09.480 ⇒ 00:09:29.029 Robert Tseng: the rest of the team can learn it better. And I don’t know what you don’t know or what you don’t care about unless you really kind of, like, engage with it. So, if I feel like engagement is low, and, like, I’m not really, like… it’s just, like, me kind of just, like, talking at you for… it’ll never be me talking at you for an hour. That’s, like, that’s… that to me is very unproductive.
44 00:09:29.030 ⇒ 00:09:29.730 Robert Tseng: So…
45 00:09:30.000 ⇒ 00:09:38.119 Robert Tseng: Okay, with all… with all that said, I guess I… to prevent myself from talking further, I think…
46 00:09:38.410 ⇒ 00:09:49.220 Robert Tseng: I’m gonna assume that we don’t have new offers to pitch at me, and we don’t have new services to kind of talk through, and I think it’d just be better for us to just go back into this,
47 00:09:50.020 ⇒ 00:10:07.839 Robert Tseng: into this exercise that, I guess, Henry was there when I was, like, starting it earlier, just so that we can continue to get this team familiar with, if these are the ICPs that we’re kind of going after, what are the problems that they face, and what are the services, like, that we have,
48 00:10:07.840 ⇒ 00:10:27.110 Robert Tseng: that, yeah, and how do we serve them? So, I think, I’m just gonna probably spend some time just kind of reviewing, like, what we discussed last time, and then I’m gonna open up, some more opportunity for people to throw more ideas onto here, and we’ll kind of basically do another round.
49 00:10:27.170 ⇒ 00:10:29.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so…
50 00:10:29.680 ⇒ 00:10:30.050 Awaish Kumar: Just to…
51 00:10:30.050 ⇒ 00:10:32.160 Robert Tseng: Gotta clarify… yeah, go ahead.
52 00:10:33.180 ⇒ 00:10:37.029 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, last time we did… when we did this, exercise.
53 00:10:37.590 ⇒ 00:10:40.799 Awaish Kumar: And, like, we didn’t really…
54 00:10:42.040 ⇒ 00:10:44.889 Awaish Kumar: We were not really clear on, like, what we wanna…
55 00:10:45.700 ⇒ 00:10:50.579 Awaish Kumar: like, make out of it? Like, do we want it to, like, use this…
56 00:10:51.250 ⇒ 00:11:00.510 Awaish Kumar: like, set of problems and recommendation, and go and figure out any, like, what service can solve this problem, or, like, what was the…
57 00:11:01.550 ⇒ 00:11:09.550 Awaish Kumar: After we have all these… sticky notes there, like, then how we are going to convert it into some…
58 00:11:10.710 ⇒ 00:11:14.199 Awaish Kumar: surveys or something, like, what is the goal?
59 00:11:16.350 ⇒ 00:11:34.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah, the goal is to be able to clearly define customer problems, and then be able to describe the services that we’re selling to them. So, I mean, right now, everything that we sell is either… is defined by me and Utam, and so, like, I think, we… we do need to kind of get to a point where
60 00:11:34.770 ⇒ 00:11:41.940 Robert Tseng: I mean, if you guys want… I mean, we want everybody to be part of, like, the selling process, and so,
61 00:11:41.940 ⇒ 00:11:51.700 Robert Tseng: like, yeah, I mean, this is just a function of me… I mean, these… these things, we… some… to some extent, we already, like, talk about them. Like, I think that’s…
62 00:11:51.740 ⇒ 00:12:03.810 Robert Tseng: They’re already part… if you read any of the… I mean, we put out, like, multiple proposals every week. You click into any of those docs, you’ll see some of these themes in there. But, like.
63 00:12:03.810 ⇒ 00:12:13.519 Robert Tseng: to really formalize them in offers and services, like, I… I mean, I would expect this… this… this group to kind of come together and be like.
64 00:12:13.710 ⇒ 00:12:37.180 Robert Tseng: all right, I’ve added a new problem that we’re solving for in this offer. This is the service that we’re describing, and I want you to pitch that at me and Utam, and, you know, I’m willing to give feedback on it, and if it’s something that we haven’t touched before, we can kind of see, like, how we can incorporate it, or if it’s just a rehashing of what’s existing, like, I think it’s just, it’s good for your understanding, and
65 00:12:37.180 ⇒ 00:12:53.649 Robert Tseng: I mean, I think that’s… that’s really what the goal is. This is a go-to-market exercise. It’s something that’s out of your guys’, like, everyday, like, elements. Like, you’re not… I don’t expect you to be thinking about this all the time. But because you have
66 00:12:53.680 ⇒ 00:13:07.479 Robert Tseng: you’re delivering on this work, you’re having these ideas, like, you know, this is just a way to connect the go-to-market side with the delivery team. I mean, do you find that to be useful, or do you feel like this is kind of pointless?
67 00:13:08.930 ⇒ 00:13:10.570 Holly Condos: I absolutely do.
68 00:13:10.570 ⇒ 00:13:18.779 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, that is useful. Like, while working on clients, we might get some ideas sometimes that, okay, this can be…
69 00:13:19.440 ⇒ 00:13:22.719 Awaish Kumar: Sold to, like, many other clients, so…
70 00:13:22.820 ⇒ 00:13:25.440 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, in that sense, like, it is really useful.
71 00:13:26.570 ⇒ 00:13:39.559 Robert Tseng: Okay. Yeah, but I mean, as far as, like, why things don’t end up kind of following this dock, well, it’s because, like, you know, we just don’t have the… just don’t have the capacity to do. So, I mean, I am trying to bring someone on to, like, kind of…
72 00:13:39.560 ⇒ 00:13:56.229 Robert Tseng: own this. We had a go-to-market lead before who kind of… yeah, I mean, it didn’t really go well, so I’m… I mean, I’m still trying to bring someone else to support me on this, on bridging… on bridging, like, sales, sales and delivery. Like, this is one of the top, top, like, kind of require…
73 00:13:56.230 ⇒ 00:14:06.709 Robert Tseng: top roles that I’m hiring for. So, I… I mean, barring that, it’s just when I… when I have time that I, like, kind of take… take… take chips at it. So,
74 00:14:07.220 ⇒ 00:14:20.910 Robert Tseng: So anyway, like, I’ll just review, kind of, once again, where we… where we landed last time, and then I want to create space for people to go throw more problems on the wall, and to kind of brainstorm the solutions that we have for them. So,
75 00:14:21.330 ⇒ 00:14:28.100 Robert Tseng: for the post-Series A SaaS founder, like, this is Hedra, StackBlitz,
76 00:14:29.250 ⇒ 00:14:35.940 Robert Tseng: like, README, default, they all fall in this category, right? Raise some amount of funding.
77 00:14:35.940 ⇒ 00:14:59.199 Robert Tseng: Starting to build out analytics infrastructure, wanting to inform how they’re growing in the next stage. They’re not really sure what they need, and so, you know, they may be setting up a data warehouse and data pipeline if they are more tech-savvy, and, like, they have… I don’t think, like, even, like, the awareness to want
78 00:14:59.200 ⇒ 00:15:01.469 Robert Tseng: What we offer is, like.
79 00:15:01.480 ⇒ 00:15:23.709 Robert Tseng: I think it’s not most… it’s not most teams. Only really founders or leaders that have come from organizations that have incorporated some sort of modern data stack will understand that, like, this is what they need, and they’ll buy that out of the box, right? Which is why, I mean, we’re talking to another company, they’re called Breezy, they’re a little bit earlier than this.
80 00:15:23.710 ⇒ 00:15:46.649 Robert Tseng: they’re not even… they haven’t raised their Series A, they just raised their seed round, and they’re coming to us saying, hey, we want to stand up our data infrastructure. So, I mean, that’s… that’s rarer, in my opinion, because they don’t… companies don’t really seem to focus on this until after they raise their A. But that, to me, is an example of a technical buyer that knows what they’re… what they want, and they want this specifically.
81 00:15:46.750 ⇒ 00:16:11.590 Robert Tseng: But, you know, barring that, like, whereas, like, README, been around for 5 plus years, also a technical product, but they don’t have any data people on their team, and their, their leadership is all former engineers. They feel like it’s not necessary, and so we’ve kind of run into a whole set of challenges around, well, we’re not going to force them to do and set up a data warehouse, we’re just trying to make it work with their existing systems. They do have a production database.
82 00:16:11.590 ⇒ 00:16:13.830 Robert Tseng: and Mongo, they do have Amplitude.
83 00:16:13.830 ⇒ 00:16:17.630 Robert Tseng: We understand that those two tools don’t really, like.
84 00:16:17.650 ⇒ 00:16:42.530 Robert Tseng: they don’t… doesn’t really cut it. We’re not really able to get, like, accurate, high-fidelity data, out of… out of that setup, but that’s… and maybe that’s something we should say no to from now on. But for now, there’s still clients, like, I consider them at risk, because they’re not willing to move forward with kind of what we have to offer there, even though we know that’s, like, the best way forward. So, I think this is something that we will avoid in the future.
85 00:16:42.530 ⇒ 00:16:45.589 Robert Tseng: but I’m just trying to contextualize, like.
86 00:16:45.740 ⇒ 00:16:54.119 Robert Tseng: how we encounter this problem, what it looks like in our existing client base, and, like, how we should respond to that.
87 00:16:54.540 ⇒ 00:17:04.810 Robert Tseng: So that’s that set of problems. Then there’s another set of problems that’s like, okay, well, maybe they have some… they’ve done some sort of growth hacking, like,
88 00:17:05.030 ⇒ 00:17:05.990 Robert Tseng: you know.
89 00:17:06.589 ⇒ 00:17:30.589 Robert Tseng: growth hacking is a very broad term. Like, if it’s a direct… if it’s a B2C product, maybe, you know, when we were working with StackBlitz, they had this, like, big, sexy launch, you know, go and type in on Bolt, build me an app using… using natural language. And, you know, that was, like, kind of the hype of, like, earlier last year, and they raised a lot of… they gained a lot of traction that way.
90 00:17:30.850 ⇒ 00:17:43.730 Robert Tseng: Other… other B2B businesses, obviously capitalizing more on the AI hype. It’s like, oh, you know, replace this workflow, automate it with some sort of AI implementation. And so.
91 00:17:43.730 ⇒ 00:17:57.099 Robert Tseng: you know, in either situation, they have to have achieved some sort of growth in order to have raised their A. It doesn’t necessarily mean they have good product-market fit, or whatnot, but at least there was, like, some
92 00:17:57.100 ⇒ 00:18:21.990 Robert Tseng: level of virality that got them to a place where they were able to, like, raise their A. But after that, then it goes back to, like, you need to build the foundations for, like, a repeatable go-to-market system. And so, they need to be doing things like running campaigns, being able to measure experiments, a lot of the same things that we’re consistently applying across all of our clients. And so, I think this is actually an
93 00:18:21.990 ⇒ 00:18:24.219 Robert Tseng: developed offering, kind of like…
94 00:18:24.220 ⇒ 00:18:48.530 Robert Tseng: to me, it’s like, if I were to just cut away all the fluff, it’s, okay, what is the repeatable, like, what is a go-to-market foundation that we can give to a Series A, post-Series A product company that, like a… yeah, a go-to-market, like, data foundation, or whatever? So, I think being very explicit about what… what components that need to go into that, I would like to crystallize that more in our
95 00:18:48.530 ⇒ 00:18:54.499 Robert Tseng: offering. The week, we only had, like, a couple ideas that we threw on there for now.
96 00:18:54.500 ⇒ 00:18:58.809 Robert Tseng: And then for this one, this was like, okay, well, maybe they’re early, and they don’t really know, like.
97 00:19:00.870 ⇒ 00:19:24.789 Robert Tseng: like, they’re… they just have their hands on a lot of different places, and I guess, like, you know, we had… we had some thought here on, like, okay, they, they still need to prove out that their market, and they don’t really know how to market size the opportunity. I would say, like, NIT is a… is a lead that didn’t end up becoming a client that was like this. They were kind of, like, straddling multiple different
98 00:19:24.790 ⇒ 00:19:26.250 Robert Tseng: approaches.
99 00:19:26.250 ⇒ 00:19:36.789 Robert Tseng: not a very clear product offering at the time. I think things have changed. But, yeah, like, they originally approached us being like, hey, we’re trying 3 different products.
100 00:19:36.810 ⇒ 00:19:51.470 Robert Tseng: we don’t really know which one to go. I don’t know how they raised money off of that, because there’s no product clarity, but, you know, basically they were asking for benchmarking, and different types of, like, analysis around, like, what is the better opportunity to go after.
101 00:19:51.490 ⇒ 00:20:01.270 Robert Tseng: I think that’s a very small minority of, like, the leads that we talk to at this stage, but we put that idea on there because that did kind of… we have come across that before.
102 00:20:01.730 ⇒ 00:20:26.349 Robert Tseng: And then lastly, I’ll say, yeah, some semblance of market fit initial traction, but, like, don’t know their best users. And so this is, like, really the whole product analytics motion. Being able to set up event telemetry, understanding your golden path for your user, and then being able to build reporting around that. So, I think we recently brought on Greg.
103 00:20:26.360 ⇒ 00:20:38.709 Robert Tseng: To kind of help us, help us with kind of defining this… this motion a bit more. But yeah, I think, those are really the four things that we talked about, regarding this particular ICP.
104 00:20:38.740 ⇒ 00:20:41.689 Robert Tseng: Any questions on that?
105 00:20:44.000 ⇒ 00:20:44.760 Robert Tseng: Nope.
106 00:20:44.830 ⇒ 00:20:46.090 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool.
107 00:20:46.090 ⇒ 00:21:10.530 Robert Tseng: Well then, I’d like to just kind of spend, like, a couple minutes, and I want us to first, like, throw more problems. Think about, for the buyer, like, I think you’re gonna have to make some mental, like, leaps. I’m not gonna define the whole set for you. Think about who the buyer is. It doesn’t have to just be founders, and think about, like, what problems they’re thinking about. At this stage, the buyer and the operator are the same. It’s like, it’s a head of product.
108 00:21:10.530 ⇒ 00:21:30.129 Robert Tseng: It’s a head of marketing, maybe it’s a CEO, it’s usually not a finance person. They don’t have a CFO at this stage. So, kind of like, that’s the persona that we’re… that you’re, that you’re thinking about, and you’re just gonna write a couple more problems on here, and so that we can kind of brainstorm what those solutions are.
109 00:21:30.200 ⇒ 00:21:43.510 Robert Tseng: Okay, so I’m gonna… hopefully you’re all in here. Please use the dark stickies. You can duplicate it and start to throw things on. I’ll let this run for a few minutes, and then, we’ll… we’ll, we’ll just kinda go… we’ll go from there.
110 00:21:44.650 ⇒ 00:21:46.679 Holly Condos: Oh, Maria, I’m not in there yet. Let me go.
111 00:21:50.160 ⇒ 00:21:54.400 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’m ready, let’s… Go…
112 00:22:05.010 ⇒ 00:22:07.700 Henry Zhao: Sorry, you don’t have to, like, dupe them.
113 00:22:08.990 ⇒ 00:22:12.819 Henry Zhao: Sorry? Is that… what is the little red hand? Is that Holly? Just curious.
114 00:22:12.990 ⇒ 00:22:15.899 Holly Condos: Is that me? Oh, no, I don’t think so. I’m not in there.
115 00:22:38.450 ⇒ 00:22:42.799 Robert Tseng: Just try to be very specific with the challenges that you’re, that you’re writing out.
116 00:22:52.080 ⇒ 00:22:55.270 Holly Condos: Would we also focus on, like, CIOs?
117 00:22:56.130 ⇒ 00:22:58.590 Robert Tseng: I don’t think there’s a CIO at that stage.
118 00:22:58.600 ⇒ 00:22:59.440 Holly Condos: Okay.
119 00:22:59.860 ⇒ 00:23:01.090 Henry Zhao: What’s a CIO?
120 00:23:02.120 ⇒ 00:23:03.709 Robert Tseng: Chief Information Officer.
121 00:23:04.630 ⇒ 00:23:05.340 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
122 00:23:05.680 ⇒ 00:23:08.670 Holly Condos: Like, you know, the head of IT, basically. Yeah.
123 00:23:08.870 ⇒ 00:23:11.659 Holly Condos: Data privacy, protection, security.
124 00:23:12.170 ⇒ 00:23:14.470 Henry Zhao: I could only think of Customer I.O.
125 00:23:14.470 ⇒ 00:23:15.720 Holly Condos: Oh, it’s all good.
126 00:24:55.710 ⇒ 00:25:08.099 Robert Tseng: Okay, I know that wasn’t too much time, but I also don’t want us to dwell on it. It was really just to get the first idea out of your head. So, we’ll just kind of, spend some time looking at each of these.
127 00:25:09.460 ⇒ 00:25:15.550 Robert Tseng: And then, if they match some of the existing problems, we’ll kind of move them around. I’ll just go left to right, so…
128 00:25:15.550 ⇒ 00:25:32.649 Robert Tseng: I kind of talked about marketing spaghetti. Every tool is reporting a different performance metric. Yeah, I mean, there’s just decision paralysis. It’s like, I don’t really trust, you know, my spend data, or my attribution tool, my ad platform, my,
129 00:25:33.670 ⇒ 00:25:52.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and maybe my inter… my Excel spreadsheet or Google Sheet that I have, they’re all kind of, like, reporting different things. Like, I don’t really know if Google is actually a good channel for us. I mean, maybe that’s not the best example, because everybody default needs to spend on Google anyway, but, yeah, something along those lines. I think that’s a very…
130 00:25:52.780 ⇒ 00:25:56.540 Robert Tseng: common problem. So, it’s very marketing-specific.
131 00:25:56.540 ⇒ 00:25:59.859 Robert Tseng: Just, like, really making… try… wanting to make sense of that.
132 00:26:00.320 ⇒ 00:26:16.390 Robert Tseng: Missing A-B testing, getting to know if what they’re building is even useful. Customer feedback. Yeah, I agree, I think this is something that’s underserved, like, this idea of, like, how does an early-stage company really gather customer feedback that’s useful? I’m not gonna… I’m not gonna,
133 00:26:16.410 ⇒ 00:26:20.779 Robert Tseng: seed the solution at this point, but I think that’s a great problem.
134 00:26:20.840 ⇒ 00:26:27.960 Robert Tseng: SaaS product is a free model, unsure how to get people upgraded paid. Yeah, perfect. I think that’s, like, great. I think, to me, it’s kind of like…
135 00:26:28.390 ⇒ 00:26:36.419 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s… that’s a different… this is, like, the whole problem set around, like, pricing. Well, we got a bunch of users, well, how do we actually make money from this?
136 00:26:37.110 ⇒ 00:26:44.240 Robert Tseng: And then, web analytics, single source of truth, gecko edge collection as foundation modeling. So,
137 00:26:44.400 ⇒ 00:26:48.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think, I think that’s…
138 00:26:50.410 ⇒ 00:27:06.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah, just, like, being able to accurately collect information about your… like, yeah, tracking your users, knowing where they’re coming from. Kind of enriching, enriching, your… what were your… your underst… your… your understanding of, like, who… who… who you’re…
139 00:27:06.570 ⇒ 00:27:17.969 Robert Tseng: who your visitors and your users are. Okay, great. So let’s spend a few minutes, you know, knowing that those are the four problems. Let’s, like, kind of write out the solutions. Like, you can think about
140 00:27:17.970 ⇒ 00:27:27.020 Robert Tseng: Work that we’ve already done to solve some of these problems, or, you know, this is kind of where you can start to bring out other ideas of projects, to solve these problems.
141 00:27:28.790 ⇒ 00:27:30.489 Robert Tseng: Okay, to another 3 minutes.
142 00:27:32.170 ⇒ 00:27:34.360 Robert Tseng: Use the, light green stickies this time.
143 00:27:40.020 ⇒ 00:27:44.549 Robert Tseng: Sorry, you don’t have to match them, just, you can just write it. We’ll do the grouping later. Yeah.
144 00:30:32.580 ⇒ 00:30:35.150 Robert Tseng: Okay, great.
145 00:30:37.140 ⇒ 00:30:45.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if you could just drag your… your cards to the right problem, then we’ll kind of go in each one. I’m going to ask questions and flush it out a bit more.
146 00:30:45.540 ⇒ 00:30:52.050 Robert Tseng: We’ll go the other way around this time. I think we’ll start here.
147 00:30:52.760 ⇒ 00:31:00.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I actually think, like, I, you know, while Zoran is still here, I definitely want to kind of get to this.
148 00:31:01.250 ⇒ 00:31:03.639 Robert Tseng: Oh, interesting.
149 00:31:03.640 ⇒ 00:31:28.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, you know, this whole, like, web analytics, source of truth foundations, like, I feel like this is a capability that we’ve really unlocked. Obviously, like, the team has done a lot of great work on Eden, and also on Ellie, and, like, we’ve done this a few different times now, and I think that this is one of the strongest offerings that we have, in terms of, like, wow, we’ve really built something that’s incredible. Like, you know, I didn’t really think it was this… it was possible.
150 00:31:28.440 ⇒ 00:31:31.499 Robert Tseng: Like, I… I came when I… so…
151 00:31:31.500 ⇒ 00:31:48.570 Robert Tseng: you know, the whole… all the edge layer tracking that we do for… and then, you know, this is something that I really think can be a standalone offer, that, like, I would like to go and sell more. And it’s definitely getting interest, like, Insomnia has been… is biting on it, so we’ll see. I’m gonna…
152 00:31:48.570 ⇒ 00:31:56.859 Robert Tseng: I guess I should… I should… I should, keep… keep knocking on the door there to see if we can… can… can… can… can get this… get this through.
153 00:31:56.860 ⇒ 00:32:01.700 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I guess, like… I, you know, there’s a couple components here, right? There’s, like, a…
154 00:32:01.930 ⇒ 00:32:20.669 Robert Tseng: from the single source of truth, well, the fastest thing to stand up is still the first-party pixel. So, oftentimes, at this point, our clients have, like, multiple pixels. Every platform that they sign up for has their own pixel, so there’s a consolidation of reducing it down to a single first-party pixel that’s easy to set up.
155 00:32:20.670 ⇒ 00:32:43.200 Robert Tseng: can be secured, because, like, you know, maybe you consolidate and only use segment, or you’re using… I mean, it’s usually, like, a CDP pixel, or… yeah, and then on top of that, then you follow up with the edge layer cloud… kind of Cloudflare workers that are rerouting traffic, right? So, I think there is, like, some, like, progression here.
156 00:32:43.200 ⇒ 00:32:55.610 Robert Tseng: Zoran, I don’t know if you want to kind of, like, you know, if you could simply, like, talk about what are the steps to, like, get to… to, like, kind of solve this problem, how would you, how would you describe that in an offer… like, in an offering?
157 00:32:56.620 ⇒ 00:33:12.489 Zoran Selinger: Sure. So, we have… yeah, we have a few steps, and I mean, we’ve been through them now with, with Eden. So, first one is really just understanding… sorry, the traffic sources, which is…
158 00:33:12.890 ⇒ 00:33:21.120 Zoran Selinger: pretty easy to do with… with Edge. So that would be basically the first… the first step. It’s just to know
159 00:33:21.410 ⇒ 00:33:30.460 Zoran Selinger: Exactly, and that’s really the source of truth, is this is… these are the actual requests for loading our pages.
160 00:33:30.560 ⇒ 00:33:43.690 Zoran Selinger: So we know exactly what traffic sources bring, bring traffic, and how much, and everything else. So, then the second step is we introduce some of our own identifiers.
161 00:33:44.070 ⇒ 00:33:52.929 Zoran Selinger: Which means that we can… We can also track specifically some of the other steps
162 00:33:53.370 ⇒ 00:34:03.770 Zoran Selinger: in… on our website. For example, for Edge, we are doing the thank you page visits, which is, for example, we don’t have capability to do GTM tracking there.
163 00:34:04.270 ⇒ 00:34:06.349 Zoran Selinger: But we saw that with Edge.
164 00:34:06.610 ⇒ 00:34:20.110 Zoran Selinger: essentially allowing us to have tracking there. So, basically, our own identifiers allow us to merge those two tables and do all kinds of different things. So that would be step two.
165 00:34:20.639 ⇒ 00:34:33.899 Zoran Selinger: Now, the third step is what’s really cool to me, and the more I look into it, it just looks better every time. And that is, we start including identifiers from other
166 00:34:34.400 ⇒ 00:34:35.790 Zoran Selinger: third-party tools.
167 00:34:36.570 ⇒ 00:34:45.389 Zoran Selinger: from segment, from Google Analytics. And now, we just unlocked stitching our data with everything they collect.
168 00:34:45.580 ⇒ 00:34:46.960 Zoran Selinger: And what’s…
169 00:34:47.230 ⇒ 00:34:54.560 Zoran Selinger: What’s a nice thing there? They don’t have to abandon the tools that they like, if they already have something in place.
170 00:34:55.190 ⇒ 00:34:56.649 Robert Tseng: They don’t have to…
171 00:34:56.650 ⇒ 00:35:09.179 Zoran Selinger: we don’t have to build necessarily everything from the edge tables. They can use those nice tools, like segmenties, like features from Google Analytics, or whatever they want to use, right?
172 00:35:09.640 ⇒ 00:35:13.450 Zoran Selinger: Now, we are linking those two things, which…
173 00:35:13.760 ⇒ 00:35:21.479 Zoran Selinger: I don’t know if that exists, at least not… I don’t think it does when it comes to the edge exactly.
174 00:35:21.580 ⇒ 00:35:34.199 Zoran Selinger: So that is nice. We can, the nice thing is we can be there from the start, but we can plug in at any point in time and start from there, and it’s going to work.
175 00:35:36.470 ⇒ 00:35:44.550 Robert Tseng: Okay, great. No, I think this is really good. Yeah, I mean, I almost think that this is ready to turn into an offer, so hopefully by the next call.
176 00:35:44.550 ⇒ 00:36:08.850 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m gonna… I’m gonna flat out say, yeah, like, by the next call, I’m gonna turn this to an offer. Like, I believe this is… this is… this is enough. We have good case studies at this point, so probably would want… I mean, I know you’ve maybe… I don’t know how many case studies you’ve kind of shared, but, you know, I would… I would ask the marketing team to send you links to the case study bot, and then you can kind of share just, like, some concrete numbers of, like.
177 00:36:08.850 ⇒ 00:36:13.249 Robert Tseng: of how things got improved, across a couple clients. Yeah, go ahead, Henry.
178 00:36:14.040 ⇒ 00:36:16.230 Henry Zhao: No, go ahead, I’ll say it after you’re done.
179 00:36:16.230 ⇒ 00:36:25.000 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, so, like, and that, so that’s another thing that you can add, so, is, you know, so, yeah, I think that’s… that’s kind of how we can take
180 00:36:25.210 ⇒ 00:36:42.829 Robert Tseng: the feedback that we’re getting from this type of call, turn it into an offer, and then also have case studies with real, like, metrics that we… that we helped move, and that’s… that’s ready to go into a campaign, you know, hopefully, you know, two… two to four… within two to four weeks. So, I think,
181 00:36:42.830 ⇒ 00:36:52.790 Robert Tseng: you know, I think this is, like, a great example of, like, one that I feel like is ready to, kind of, to be turned into an offer. Alright, that’s it.
182 00:36:52.790 ⇒ 00:36:53.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah, Henry?
183 00:36:53.920 ⇒ 00:37:07.000 Henry Zhao: There’s something I feel strongly about, so when Stuart mentioned, like, server-side tracking and why he wanted to do it, he sent me a video. Well, he asked me to, like, look into Tier 11, and so Tier 11 has, like, this video series of why attribution and edge layer is important.
184 00:37:07.060 ⇒ 00:37:22.609 Henry Zhao: And it was a really good video series, it, like, made me want to, like, quickly buy Tier 11, so we should think about not just doing case studies, but having, like, video series on YouTube to, like, talk about some of these things, because I think there’s a lot of marketers that are wondering, why do I have so many, like, direct
185 00:37:23.000 ⇒ 00:37:25.720 Henry Zhao: traffic to my conversions, why am I, like…
186 00:37:26.010 ⇒ 00:37:39.220 Henry Zhao: not… like, what does the iOS new security features, like, mean to me, or, like, cookie tracking mean to me? And these videos would be informative and get them, like, interested in Brainforge. So, I think maybe we should consider something like that in addition to our case studies.
187 00:37:39.220 ⇒ 00:37:40.100 Robert Tseng: I see.
188 00:37:40.370 ⇒ 00:37:46.249 Robert Tseng: Yep, I like that. Maybe I should do a different color for this. Okay, yeah, go ahead, Zora.
189 00:37:48.940 ⇒ 00:37:56.970 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, so before we can… I think before we can make a service, an offer from this, we should
190 00:37:57.250 ⇒ 00:38:02.489 Zoran Selinger: figure out what do we do if we are not already on Cloudflare.
191 00:38:02.880 ⇒ 00:38:07.639 Zoran Selinger: what are… what’s the alternative? How can we plug into the edge?
192 00:38:08.340 ⇒ 00:38:14.890 Zoran Selinger: if we are on a different… on a different service, and what those are, I don’t know exactly at this point.
193 00:38:16.970 ⇒ 00:38:22.219 Zoran Selinger: So, maybe we should look into that a little bit, just in case.
194 00:38:24.920 ⇒ 00:38:30.059 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sure. So, I mean, we should also look at… wait, yeah.
195 00:38:30.690 ⇒ 00:38:33.100 Robert Tseng: What are the limitations?
196 00:38:34.410 ⇒ 00:38:35.680 Robert Tseng: No Cloudflare.
197 00:38:37.400 ⇒ 00:38:45.770 Robert Tseng: Okay, so, like, to me, there’s a couple action items, right? So, on the delivery side, the delivery side can go and, I mean, I can help kind of build out the offer.
198 00:38:45.820 ⇒ 00:39:00.340 Robert Tseng: The delivery team is going to be able to share about, like, kind of the specifics of how we’ve been servicing the clients with this service. And then I want to be able to flip this to the marketing team and say, look, I think, you know, here are some case studies.
199 00:39:00.340 ⇒ 00:39:24.680 Robert Tseng: plan out the content strategy for, like, you know, being able to do, like, a short video series on marketing things. We can even have… we probably have enough to even put out a white paper that we can do with, like, a partner. So, if it’s with Cloudflare, if it’s with Northbeam, or, you know, wherever it makes sense. And then, like, there are events, or, like, conferences that we can actually go and speak at. So, like, to me, that’s, like, the full cycle of, like, how we take
200 00:39:24.700 ⇒ 00:39:48.709 Robert Tseng: like, a service that we… we’ve never done this, but, like, this is my vision for, like, we take an offer that we know that we’re… that we’re crushed at, and we turn it into just, like, a multi, kind of, like, step, like, marketing kind of, like, funnel, pretty much, that we can go and use, establish, like, our, like, leadership in the space, and then be able to use that to, like, attract more leads. So,
201 00:39:48.710 ⇒ 00:39:53.540 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’ve… we’ve yet, like, once again, like, this is aspirational, but, like.
202 00:39:53.540 ⇒ 00:39:59.340 Robert Tseng: Hopefully you guys are kind of able to see what, you know, what I’m throwing out there.
203 00:39:59.390 ⇒ 00:40:03.820 Holly Condos: Yeah, Robert, do we want to add, events to that list?
204 00:40:03.820 ⇒ 00:40:05.320 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, it’s like an event.
205 00:40:05.320 ⇒ 00:40:05.700 Holly Condos: Right.
206 00:40:05.700 ⇒ 00:40:06.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
207 00:40:06.620 ⇒ 00:40:13.080 Holly Condos: the happy hour, or, you know, some of the things that you guys have done in Austin recently?
208 00:40:14.410 ⇒ 00:40:21.369 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay, that’s… that’s true. So, those are separate things. So, you know, conference speaking, and then there’s also, like.
209 00:40:21.460 ⇒ 00:40:37.079 Robert Tseng: you know, events with other experts, right? We don’t claim to know all the solutions, maybe we have some questions, and so we can go and host, like, a really niche event as well, and invite people to that. So, I mean, this is more for, like, our go-to-market side team to be able to… to kind of, like.
210 00:40:37.080 ⇒ 00:40:45.560 Robert Tseng: plan this stuff out, but, like, I… I think, to me, this is, like, how the delivery team could inform, like, what we’re going after on the marketing.
211 00:40:45.560 ⇒ 00:40:47.820 Holly Condos: Yeah, understood. Thank you.
212 00:40:47.820 ⇒ 00:40:57.590 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay, great. Zoran, I know you got a drop, so if you got a drop, go ahead. Actually, this is going better than I thought, so I think we might fill up the hour. We’ll just… we’ll kick.
213 00:40:57.590 ⇒ 00:41:03.009 Zoran Selinger: Okay, I’ll go now. Thanks, really good one. Yeah.
214 00:41:03.010 ⇒ 00:41:03.899 Holly Condos: I will talk soon.
215 00:41:04.420 ⇒ 00:41:04.819 Henry Zhao: eyes are up.
216 00:41:04.820 ⇒ 00:41:05.890 Zoran Selinger: Thank you, everyone. Bye-bye.
217 00:41:06.260 ⇒ 00:41:16.160 Robert Tseng: But, I guess there’s not that many stickies here, so I’ll skip it. I’ll go to the one that has more… more attention. So yeah, missing A-B testing. Alright, so let’s talk through this one.
218 00:41:17.120 ⇒ 00:41:19.390 Robert Tseng: The,
219 00:41:21.040 ⇒ 00:41:29.840 Robert Tseng: Okay, I guess Henry and… it seems like… oh, yeah. Henry, in a way, she both kind of mentioned things. Do you guys want to kind of chat through what you were saying here?
220 00:41:30.390 ⇒ 00:41:38.249 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, for the… for the parts where I… I think, like… I have worked with a company before, like, they were a startup.
221 00:41:38.250 ⇒ 00:41:40.800 Robert Tseng: What happens is that, like.
222 00:41:41.320 ⇒ 00:41:44.899 Awaish Kumar: You keep on building features, and then…
223 00:41:45.070 ⇒ 00:42:01.709 Awaish Kumar: We don’t know if it’s being used, and people… if somebody comes on the platform, uses it for two days, and then churns, so what steps, or what pages, or what features exactly he used, and the person who actually converted, what was the difference between, like.
224 00:42:01.710 ⇒ 00:42:05.399 Awaish Kumar: kind of features, both utilized. So…
225 00:42:05.410 ⇒ 00:42:13.449 Awaish Kumar: So, like, this is basically… and to do that kind of analysis, we need a product, like, something like…
226 00:42:13.530 ⇒ 00:42:25.140 Awaish Kumar: Tools, like product analytics tools set up, so that we can, first of all, capture all that data, like the customer journeys on the platform, and then basically
227 00:42:25.510 ⇒ 00:42:33.130 Awaish Kumar: That can help us with all other things, like A-B testing, analysis on the features, or whatever.
228 00:42:43.190 ⇒ 00:42:51.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, this is what, you know, what we do for all of our product analytics kind of clients, at some point, but yeah, I do think that
229 00:42:51.640 ⇒ 00:43:08.510 Robert Tseng: you know, to me, the challenge is, there’s a couple contingencies. Like, one, they have to set up the product analytics tool correctly, and they have to be tracking, like, the usage correctly, right? Like, README is just, like, in a kind of crappy spot, because, like.
230 00:43:08.900 ⇒ 00:43:26.670 Robert Tseng: We were there when we informed them how to set up the tool, but then they didn’t do it very well, and so now when they’re really trying to, like, get very tactical about measuring usage, they don’t trust the data and whatever, and, like, if there’s no trust in the data, then you’re just spending more time questioning it than you are actually learning from it.
231 00:43:26.670 ⇒ 00:43:34.980 Robert Tseng: And so, I actually think this is… this is… this is, you know, it always sounds good in practice, but it… it’s not something that we have been able to
232 00:43:35.580 ⇒ 00:43:53.780 Robert Tseng: do… like, too much of it is out of our hands, unless we truly own everything from the… from designing the event data, and also the implementation, which most of the time, clients have not let us go and actually do the instrumentation ourselves. So, I wonder…
233 00:43:53.780 ⇒ 00:43:55.000 Henry Zhao: Why is that, by the way?
234 00:43:55.600 ⇒ 00:43:58.609 Robert Tseng: Well, for README, they just think it’s… it’s just like…
235 00:43:58.610 ⇒ 00:44:22.359 Robert Tseng: whoa, it’s like, this is proprietary product, like, we don’t want you touching our codebase. And it’s… I don’t know, like, I… I can… I understand, like, the icky feeling of it, but, you know, at the end of the day, it’s really just… it’s mostly front-end components, so it’s not really interacting with your core product. But then, you know, if they have to send server-side events, like, README doesn’t want us, like, writing a script to send
236 00:44:22.360 ⇒ 00:44:35.479 Robert Tseng: like, data from Mongo into… into, into Amplitude. They’re, like, their engineers want to do that, even though they’re not doing it correctly, and then we’re also not able to do the JavaScript. So, like, I think that was, like, the main issue.
237 00:44:35.480 ⇒ 00:44:38.239 Robert Tseng: Whereas, like, with Eden, on the CPG side.
238 00:44:38.240 ⇒ 00:44:55.869 Robert Tseng: it’s pretty easy, like, they’re just a Webflow website or whatever, so, like, you know, we just set up whatever we did in Mixpanel, which was just through, like, a simple script, and then any event that’s being sent is just, like, kind of passed in through segment. So, there is very much no engineering left. So, it’s kind of, like…
239 00:44:55.870 ⇒ 00:44:57.380 Robert Tseng: yeah, like…
240 00:44:57.420 ⇒ 00:45:12.449 Robert Tseng: it blows my mind how it can be so simple in, like, one situation, but why is it so complicated in another? And I feel like it’s… that’s, you know, that’s a dilemma that I’ve not really been able to, kind of crack.
241 00:45:12.610 ⇒ 00:45:29.279 Henry Zhao: Yeah, and I would say it’s kind of like a point of view thing, so if you think about it, hiring us versus hiring, like, a new engineer is not really that different. Like, the engineer coming in is still touching proprietary data, so I think for, like, objections like that, we can, like, repurpose ourselves or, like, provide the trust
242 00:45:29.280 ⇒ 00:45:39.120 Henry Zhao: Where it’s like, they’re not hiring a consultancy, where it’s like, Utam is involved, Robert’s involved, Henry’s involved, somebody else might be involved, but, like, you have one dedicated person, as if they were just hiring an engineer.
243 00:45:39.290 ⇒ 00:45:41.109 Henry Zhao: To, like, implement this kind of stuff.
244 00:45:42.810 ⇒ 00:45:43.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
245 00:45:43.380 ⇒ 00:45:45.859 Henry Zhao: Just, like, resources, like, if we get stuck.
246 00:45:46.120 ⇒ 00:45:54.729 Henry Zhao: I don’t know. What I’m trying to say is, like, we can maybe overcome that objection by building trust, like, through a point-of-view shift.
247 00:45:54.730 ⇒ 00:46:19.329 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I hear you. The problem with that is that if they’re like, oh, okay, so we should just treat you as an engineering resource, we get constrained to, like, what they pay for their engineers, right? So, like, README contracts with some, like, random staff aug agency in Australia, and I’m not gonna… I won’t use this example anymore. I don’t wanna… our ICP is not really README, but, like, you know, they pay them whatever.
248 00:46:19.330 ⇒ 00:46:22.870 Henry Zhao: like, 30 bucks an hour, or whatever it is, and it’s like…
249 00:46:23.210 ⇒ 00:46:39.719 Robert Tseng: what, so we’re gonna price ourselves at that range? Like, that’s not how it is. Whereas, like, for Eden, it’s different. It’s like, oh, you know, Adam’s like, I have an outcome that I want to achieve in Mixpanel. Like, I want everybody to be using this to make decisions or whatever. That’s a much… that’s a much better sell for us, because it’s like, great, we can get you there.
250 00:46:39.720 ⇒ 00:46:46.610 Robert Tseng: And, like, they’re not thinking in terms of, like, hourly. So anyway, like, I try not to, like.
251 00:46:46.610 ⇒ 00:46:59.679 Robert Tseng: bill us, like, in terms of engineering hours, because I think that typically doesn’t end up going very well for us. I mean, that’s not… I don’t really think that’s what we want. But yes, I mean, I take the point, yeah.
252 00:47:00.690 ⇒ 00:47:18.349 Robert Tseng: Okay, so that’s part of it, sure. I also included here, like, session replays, right? So it’s like, well, that… I think that is actually the easiest thing. Before any of this other stuff, like, first you do… first thing you do is just make sure that they can just watch some qualitative videos, like.
253 00:47:18.350 ⇒ 00:47:20.780 Robert Tseng: About, like, what their users are doing.
254 00:47:20.780 ⇒ 00:47:30.500 Robert Tseng: And you’ll get a lot of, like, directionality just looking at that. It doesn’t involve, like, too much tracking, so maybe that’s, like, a lower hanging fruit. Maybe we just get really good at just being, like.
255 00:47:30.500 ⇒ 00:47:44.180 Robert Tseng: First thing you do, you set up session replay, you let us watch the videos, and we’ll be able to help you basically spot the issues in your funnel. And we’re, like, watching for, like, a few different things, like, and their milestone. We’re looking at
256 00:47:44.180 ⇒ 00:48:07.909 Robert Tseng: you know, first-time visitors, like, how they’re navigating the page, if there is some sort of sign-up funnel or whatever, like, where they’re dropping off, and we just, like, give them, like, we’re able to do, like, a sprint to do, like, a session replays, like, qualitative insights report that just gives you, like, some quick wins on, like, where users are kind of, like, falling out on your product. Like, I feel like that’s an easier package to sell.
257 00:48:07.910 ⇒ 00:48:09.680 Robert Tseng: Possibly, then, like.
258 00:48:09.680 ⇒ 00:48:25.220 Robert Tseng: whole product analytics, design, tracking, setup, and feature usage, like, reporting. Like, that is definitely, like, the longer-term, like, kind of value add, but maybe we should be emphasizing this more, is kind of, like, my point. I don’t know what you guys.
259 00:48:25.220 ⇒ 00:48:37.909 Henry Zhao: And in terms of session replays, I’ve also worked with a tool called Mouseflow, which is actually really good. It’s kind of like session replays, but they also provide you analytics, in terms of, like, where are people getting stuck, where are people finding errors? Like, that’s something we could also help implement and analyze.
260 00:48:39.110 ⇒ 00:48:47.030 Robert Tseng: Right. Mouse flow. I mean, I’m sure, like, AI could definitely help a lot with this, so, like, but yeah, I guess the idea is, like, okay.
261 00:48:47.290 ⇒ 00:48:53.200 Robert Tseng: Session replays for early qualitative insights on
262 00:48:53.330 ⇒ 00:48:57.080 Robert Tseng: Or product, you know,
263 00:48:58.430 ⇒ 00:49:02.440 Robert Tseng: issues. So, you know, first-time visits,
264 00:49:02.630 ⇒ 00:49:10.859 Robert Tseng: sign-up funnels, early, like, onboarding, yeah, like, I think that’s really all session replay is useful for at this point.
265 00:49:10.860 ⇒ 00:49:17.039 Henry Zhao: My only feedback on this stuff is, like, from my experience, like, whenever we do this, engineers never have actually time to fix it, so…
266 00:49:18.300 ⇒ 00:49:20.170 Henry Zhao: I would just be cautious about that.
267 00:49:20.560 ⇒ 00:49:24.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think it just depends on, like, the directive.
268 00:49:25.250 ⇒ 00:49:27.780 Robert Tseng: So, I think,
269 00:49:28.290 ⇒ 00:49:42.430 Robert Tseng: Sure, for default, they may not care, but actually, you know, for… you know, if they’re really feeling the pain of, like, of it, like, I think it’s just a matter of prioritization. Like, they can get around it.
270 00:49:42.900 ⇒ 00:50:07.340 Robert Tseng: Right, because it’s either, like, the engineers are going to build new features, or they’re fixing old things. And obviously, the bias for engineering teams is just to keep building new stuff, because that’s what they like to do. But if they’re feeling enough of the pain of, like, wow, this is actually a really significant issue, we’re losing… we’re, like, we’re losing 50% more users than, like, the industry averages for, you know, whatever benchmark.
271 00:50:07.340 ⇒ 00:50:15.229 Robert Tseng: that could be, like, significant enough that, like, it pushes that to a higher priority. So I think that’s kind of how you would navigate that.
272 00:50:15.230 ⇒ 00:50:17.689 Henry Zhao: Can we sell that as a service, though, to, like, fix…
273 00:50:17.970 ⇒ 00:50:23.280 Henry Zhao: issues, because some of it might be really easy. It might just be, like, fixing a form, or, like, removing fields, things like that.
274 00:50:27.110 ⇒ 00:50:28.970 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we could.
275 00:50:29.090 ⇒ 00:50:34.470 Robert Tseng: We could. I think… I… I guess…
276 00:50:35.360 ⇒ 00:50:47.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess we would just have to be really confident that, like, if you solve this problem, we know it’s gonna drive, like, XLift or whatever, and, like, you know, I… you know, if we can dial it in like that, I think that would be good.
277 00:50:47.700 ⇒ 00:50:57.829 Henry Zhao: I would, because I, as a consumer, have so many times, I want to buy something, but the site is down, or, like, it’s very unintuitive, and I delay the loss of me as a customer. Like, the customer was good, product was good, marketing was good, but…
278 00:50:57.970 ⇒ 00:51:00.560 Henry Zhao: That was, like, literally the roadblock, you know?
279 00:51:00.560 ⇒ 00:51:01.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
280 00:51:01.320 ⇒ 00:51:11.099 Robert Tseng: I mean, that ends up being more of, like, a CRO exercise, so this is more of, like, you know, we kind of… it was just maybe kind of how we should position it. It’s like…
281 00:51:11.100 ⇒ 00:51:26.419 Robert Tseng: analytics-informed, like, conversion rate optimization that’s not just, like, kind of fixing landing pages and stuff, but it’s a little bit more… like, I don’t know what the wording will be, we’ll have to kind of think about it a bit, but I hear you on that.
282 00:51:26.470 ⇒ 00:51:51.280 Robert Tseng: I think I… I don’t know if I’ve shared this example with everyone on this call, but, I have a friend who basically, he builds an agency, he was doing paid ads, pretty much, for a while, but then they ended up switching to CRO, and the specific CRO gimmick that he would do is he would add, like, gamification on sites. So you go onto a site, you spin a wheel for a promotion, right? I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that. It’s like, oh.
283 00:51:51.280 ⇒ 00:51:58.280 Robert Tseng: Like, enter your email, spin this wheel, or, like, like, slot machine, whatever, and it generates some, like, random coupon for you.
284 00:51:58.380 ⇒ 00:52:21.340 Robert Tseng: one, it opts in the customer to, like, submit their email so they can be put into a targeting sequence, but then two, like, you know, that it’s just, like, an easy way to, like, drive someone to a sale immediately. Obviously, this is more for CPG companies. But yeah, like, that was his whole… that was his whole shtick, and, you know, he… once… once they pivoted into just doing that as a service.
285 00:52:21.340 ⇒ 00:52:32.309 Robert Tseng: They, like, blew up to, like, a 30 million agency, and, like, it was just… which was, like, kind of crazy back in the day. So, yeah, I really think that, like, you know, if we can really nail it down.
286 00:52:32.310 ⇒ 00:52:49.610 Robert Tseng: like, the sell for him was so easy, because he was like, we’re launching this game on top of your website, it doesn’t impact… we’re not touching production code at all, it’s pretty much just like a… like a, like a… what do they call it? Like a…
287 00:52:50.040 ⇒ 00:53:12.920 Robert Tseng: like a tooltip that you add on top of your… on top of your site. You can easily A-B test that by only, like, sharing it with a small chunk of users, and it scales well. So, like, to me, that was, like, great. They dodged the engineering kind of, like, stakeholder, because there is no, like, real threat to… no security threat on touching any codebase.
288 00:53:12.920 ⇒ 00:53:37.739 Robert Tseng: they solve the marketing problem, because there’s something really easy for them to go and activate on conversion rate, and then, like, it’s got a very clear, like, financial impact. So they’re able to really get budget owners to sign off on this quickly, because they, you know, after some point, it was very easy for them to say, you install this gimmick, you’re going to drive your conversions up by X percent. If you’re doing, you know, 10 million in revenue, this is a
289 00:53:37.740 ⇒ 00:53:55.919 Robert Tseng: million revenue increase. Like, the story is just so clear that it just became such an easy thing for them to sell. So, I mean, I would love to have that type of clarity in, like, our offer, and if there is a way for us to, like, turn this into, like, at least, like, an initial
290 00:53:55.920 ⇒ 00:54:17.199 Robert Tseng: initial offer that is that clear, I would totally sell that. And obviously, what Waish described, like, that is the longer-term play, but that ends up becoming, like, a reason for them to retain us and to continue working with us. But yeah, if there is, like, that quick win that we can make, and, like, to turn it into an offer like that, that’s what I would like to do.
291 00:54:17.370 ⇒ 00:54:25.790 Robert Tseng: Any… I guess, sorry, I kind of went off on a tangent, er, on there, but any, any, any kind of, like… does that, does that make sense? Do people see that?
292 00:54:29.970 ⇒ 00:54:31.559 Awaish Kumar: There we go in the hall.
293 00:54:33.450 ⇒ 00:54:34.170 Holly Condos: Sorry.
294 00:54:39.720 ⇒ 00:54:44.869 Robert Tseng: Sorry, I just heard, like, a bunch of people at once, I didn’t… I think we all said, this is very cool.
295 00:54:44.870 ⇒ 00:54:46.080 Holly Condos: Okay.
296 00:54:46.300 ⇒ 00:54:46.850 Robert Tseng: Cool.
297 00:54:47.020 ⇒ 00:54:53.949 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, cool, I mean, we don’t really have that… wow, this kind of went a lot farther, so…
298 00:54:54.070 ⇒ 00:55:08.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, what I’m hearing is, like, okay, like, I’m gonna take some time and really just try to build out these two offers, and I’ll try to make something a little bit clearer for the team, for, you know, hopefully within 2 weeks. So, I think, I think this is… I think this is great, a great.
299 00:55:08.460 ⇒ 00:55:18.810 Henry Zhao: Yeah, I think I looked at the services doc before, like, before this call and between… after last ones, and I just… I thought it was pretty thorough. I think it’s best if we keep doing these meetings to kind of bounce ideas off of each other.
300 00:55:18.810 ⇒ 00:55:19.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
301 00:55:19.520 ⇒ 00:55:20.599 Henry Zhao: A little bit more productive.
302 00:55:20.790 ⇒ 00:55:29.859 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally. I don’t… I don’t want to keep going back to that doc. I just assumed that you guys… you guys read it, or whatever, and… Yeah, we did, and it’s like, to me, it just seemed very complete, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
303 00:55:29.930 ⇒ 00:55:44.339 Robert Tseng: Cool. Yeah, so, you know, I’ll… I’m gonna, you know, this meeting is recorded for other people, but… alright, like, these are the two offers that I’m gonna try to build out, over the next couple weeks, and then…
304 00:55:44.850 ⇒ 00:55:49.790 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess that’s… that’s… that’s what we can… we can go… go from there.
305 00:55:50.590 ⇒ 00:55:51.490 Holly Condos: Sounds good.
306 00:55:52.480 ⇒ 00:55:54.050 Awaish Kumar: Thanks, everyone.
307 00:55:54.050 ⇒ 00:55:54.949 Henry Zhao: Thank you, guys.
308 00:55:55.290 ⇒ 00:55:55.830 Robert Tseng: Alright.
309 00:55:55.830 ⇒ 00:55:56.699 Holly Condos: Take care, have a.
310 00:55:56.700 ⇒ 00:55:58.099 Awaish Kumar: Can we come on.