Meeting Title: Data Consulting Catch-Up with Robert Date: 2025-12-05 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, c.kim
WEBVTT
1 00:00:30.750 ⇒ 00:00:31.650 Robert Tseng: Whoa.
2 00:00:56.480 ⇒ 00:00:57.240 c.kim: Yay!
3 00:00:57.640 ⇒ 00:00:58.830 Robert Tseng: Hello!
4 00:01:00.420 ⇒ 00:01:01.490 c.kim: How are you?
5 00:01:01.670 ⇒ 00:01:03.770 Robert Tseng: I’m good, long time no see!
6 00:01:03.770 ⇒ 00:01:05.560 c.kim: Yeah, for real.
7 00:01:05.930 ⇒ 00:01:06.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
8 00:01:07.250 ⇒ 00:01:07.910 Robert Tseng: Sweet.
9 00:01:08.680 ⇒ 00:01:11.549 Robert Tseng: You got married, you’re in DC.
10 00:01:11.550 ⇒ 00:01:12.330 c.kim: Yup.
11 00:01:13.190 ⇒ 00:01:14.789 Robert Tseng: And then you start a new job.
12 00:01:14.940 ⇒ 00:01:16.100 c.kim: I did.
13 00:01:16.330 ⇒ 00:01:16.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
14 00:01:18.270 ⇒ 00:01:18.950 c.kim: Yeah.
15 00:01:20.660 ⇒ 00:01:24.090 c.kim: I wouldn’t recommend all of the above, but, you know…
16 00:01:24.090 ⇒ 00:01:25.479 Robert Tseng: Yes, I…
17 00:01:25.720 ⇒ 00:01:37.290 Robert Tseng: I’m, I also got married, I moved to the East Coast. I guess this has been a newish thing for me, but I’ve been… feels like I’ve been working this job for a lot longer.
18 00:01:37.850 ⇒ 00:01:38.580 c.kim: Yeah.
19 00:01:39.070 ⇒ 00:01:39.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
20 00:01:39.500 ⇒ 00:01:40.250 c.kim: Fair enough.
21 00:01:41.470 ⇒ 00:01:42.090 c.kim: But yeah!
22 00:01:43.430 ⇒ 00:01:45.410 c.kim: Where East Coast are you?
23 00:01:45.410 ⇒ 00:01:46.489 Robert Tseng: I’m in New York.
24 00:01:47.520 ⇒ 00:01:49.510 c.kim: Like, New York City?
25 00:01:49.510 ⇒ 00:01:50.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah, New York City.
26 00:01:50.680 ⇒ 00:01:53.549 c.kim: Oh! Shit, I’m there all the time!
27 00:01:53.550 ⇒ 00:01:54.190 Robert Tseng: Mariah?
28 00:01:56.190 ⇒ 00:02:01.500 Robert Tseng: I thought you were going… you were in Boston for a while, so that’s why I didn’t really hit you up when I moved to New York.
29 00:02:01.500 ⇒ 00:02:11.840 c.kim: Yeah, no, I was in Boston for a while, and then I moved to DC, but my job takes me to New York a decent amount, and I have a lot of friends in New York that I go up to visit, probably, like.
30 00:02:11.840 ⇒ 00:02:12.460 Robert Tseng: Oh!
31 00:02:12.460 ⇒ 00:02:14.840 c.kim: Once a month-ish average.
32 00:02:14.840 ⇒ 00:02:15.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
33 00:02:15.160 ⇒ 00:02:17.340 c.kim: So, yeah.
34 00:02:17.340 ⇒ 00:02:18.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you just take the train up.
35 00:02:18.880 ⇒ 00:02:19.900 c.kim: Yeah.
36 00:02:19.900 ⇒ 00:02:21.259 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s nice.
37 00:02:21.260 ⇒ 00:02:25.810 c.kim: love the train. It’s so much nicer than in California!
38 00:02:26.680 ⇒ 00:02:27.610 c.kim: Yeah.
39 00:02:28.750 ⇒ 00:02:30.299 Robert Tseng: Are you at home right now?
40 00:02:30.300 ⇒ 00:02:31.410 c.kim: I am at home, yeah.
41 00:02:31.410 ⇒ 00:02:35.770 Robert Tseng: Cool! Yeah, like, kind of how, I guess, how is, how’s living in DC?
42 00:02:36.120 ⇒ 00:02:39.570 c.kim: It’s nice! It’s really nice. It’s, like, still…
43 00:02:39.760 ⇒ 00:02:51.010 c.kim: big city vibes, but not, like, Manhattan big city vibes. Yeah. But still walkable, you still get, like, your little neighborhood pockets with your cute little cafes and stuff.
44 00:02:51.220 ⇒ 00:02:52.589 Robert Tseng: What part of DC are you in?
45 00:02:52.780 ⇒ 00:03:00.850 c.kim: I’m, like, directly a mile north of Capitol Hill. Like, if I look out my front door, I can see the dome, so… Wow!
46 00:03:00.850 ⇒ 00:03:01.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
47 00:03:02.790 ⇒ 00:03:14.400 Robert Tseng: I was there, like, a month ago, and… I mean, it was during the government shutdown, I guess. It was… I was there on a, like, over a weekend, and it was really dead.
48 00:03:14.580 ⇒ 00:03:15.640 c.kim: Yeah.
49 00:03:15.640 ⇒ 00:03:23.139 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it was kinda… kinda eerie. Like, I was just biking around all the national monuments, there was, like, no one anywhere, I could just walk up to anything, and I was like, wow.
50 00:03:23.260 ⇒ 00:03:26.420 Robert Tseng: But then all the museums were closed, so it was also kind of a bummer.
51 00:03:26.420 ⇒ 00:03:33.680 c.kim: Yeah, no, the museum’s closing was kind of dumb, but I did notice that on the weekends in DC in general, it’s dead. Like.
52 00:03:33.680 ⇒ 00:03:34.110 Robert Tseng: Oh, really?
53 00:03:34.110 ⇒ 00:03:39.390 c.kim: Yeah, most people drive in from, like, nearby towns to work, or, like, take the
54 00:03:40.340 ⇒ 00:03:45.300 c.kim: But also, I guess, like, the politics folks just don’t…
55 00:03:46.200 ⇒ 00:03:51.859 c.kim: have weekend life? Like, nobody’s awake before, like, 11. So if you’re.
56 00:03:51.860 ⇒ 00:03:52.190 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
57 00:03:52.190 ⇒ 00:03:58.189 c.kim: You can have brunch plans anywhere in DC. Like, most restaurants don’t even open before, like, 8.
58 00:03:58.380 ⇒ 00:03:58.860 Robert Tseng: Wow.
59 00:03:58.860 ⇒ 00:03:59.730 c.kim: Totally.
60 00:04:00.630 ⇒ 00:04:02.070 c.kim: What are we doing, guys? Like…
61 00:04:02.070 ⇒ 00:04:02.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
62 00:04:03.090 ⇒ 00:04:05.610 c.kim: Yeah. It’s a really sleepy city.
63 00:04:05.900 ⇒ 00:04:10.120 Robert Tseng: Yes, yes, yeah. I mean, I kind of view it as, like,
64 00:04:10.770 ⇒ 00:04:20.659 Robert Tseng: I guess when… it’s kind of like people, when they’re ready to, like, settle down, they’ll move to DC, I guess, I guess, or, like, move around DC.
65 00:04:20.660 ⇒ 00:04:24.070 c.kim: Yeah, I have had a few friends that have, like, left New York and…
66 00:04:24.190 ⇒ 00:04:37.809 Robert Tseng: got married and are having kids around, like, living around DC now, kind of thing. Yeah. It’s like… I wouldn’t say it’s, like, the Irvine of the New York, but I mean, there’s like… I don’t know, it’s like… it’s a nice, it’s nice. Quality of life is good there, so, like,
67 00:04:37.810 ⇒ 00:04:44.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah. It seems that way. Food’s good, a lot of space, people actually can be homeowners, like… Yeah, yeah.
68 00:04:44.290 ⇒ 00:04:48.440 c.kim: It’s, like, slightly more affordable, similar vibes, but not the same.
69 00:04:48.440 ⇒ 00:04:48.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
70 00:04:48.900 ⇒ 00:04:51.559 c.kim: But still close enough that you can… Close enough that you can kind of go…
71 00:04:51.560 ⇒ 00:04:52.830 Robert Tseng: It’ll be late, yeah. Yeah.
72 00:04:52.880 ⇒ 00:04:53.420 c.kim: Yeah.
73 00:04:53.420 ⇒ 00:04:57.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you can have, like, two airports or whatever, so, like, it’s just, like, yeah, yeah.
74 00:04:57.010 ⇒ 00:04:59.549 c.kim: Exactly. Yeah.
75 00:04:59.610 ⇒ 00:05:00.390 Robert Tseng: Nice.
76 00:05:00.390 ⇒ 00:05:01.820 c.kim: But it’s cool, I like it.
77 00:05:02.090 ⇒ 00:05:02.830 Robert Tseng: Okay.
78 00:05:02.830 ⇒ 00:05:03.560 c.kim: Yeah.
79 00:05:04.070 ⇒ 00:05:21.279 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then, I guess… yeah, tell me more about your work. I think I was kind of… I was intrigued, like, I didn’t realize you were data… you were doing data engineering for a while, then now you’re kind of, like, in consulting, and… I mean, I do data consulting, so, like, I was like, oh, cool, I feel like I should just chat with you, see what’s up.
80 00:05:21.280 ⇒ 00:05:27.010 c.kim: Yeah, I mean… So, like, at SC, I got a degree in math, right? And then…
81 00:05:27.130 ⇒ 00:05:28.139 Robert Tseng: I remember that.
82 00:05:28.140 ⇒ 00:05:30.859 c.kim: Yeah, and then I started my career at KPMG.
83 00:05:31.100 ⇒ 00:05:42.649 c.kim: doing, like, fuck all. Like, it was so dumb, and I hated it, and it was really boring. And so, a couple years into it, I switched into their, like, engineering group.
84 00:05:42.650 ⇒ 00:05:45.019 Robert Tseng: Where I actually got to do cool stuff.
85 00:05:45.260 ⇒ 00:05:48.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah. For KPMG, it was, like.
86 00:05:48.290 ⇒ 00:05:55.780 c.kim: engineering, but whatever any client under the sun needed, so I was doing a lot of, like.
87 00:05:56.770 ⇒ 00:06:07.119 c.kim: HR data processing, or, like, sometimes financial data, and then for another company, it was, like, private equity reporting that I automated for everything.
88 00:06:07.220 ⇒ 00:06:09.449 c.kim: So it was like…
89 00:06:10.490 ⇒ 00:06:22.060 c.kim: jack-of-all-trades, master of none style engineering, like, a real… wasn’t really a software engineer, wasn’t really a data engineer, wasn’t really a data analyst, I was just like, whatever, these people need me, and I’ll do it. Like, I don’t care.
90 00:06:22.060 ⇒ 00:06:22.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
91 00:06:22.540 ⇒ 00:06:23.670 c.kim: Yeah.
92 00:06:24.000 ⇒ 00:06:35.179 c.kim: But then, my friend was like, yo, you should come to A&M. And I was like, excellent timing, I hate it here. So I moved to A&M, and I’m basically doing all the same things.
93 00:06:35.350 ⇒ 00:06:38.140 c.kim: But, it’s all finance-focused.
94 00:06:38.770 ⇒ 00:06:44.729 c.kim: So, it’s a lot of, like, journal entry data, invoice data, like, procurement data.
95 00:06:44.950 ⇒ 00:06:45.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
96 00:06:45.450 ⇒ 00:06:47.719 c.kim: And a lot of reporting off of it.
97 00:06:47.720 ⇒ 00:06:48.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
98 00:06:49.050 ⇒ 00:06:49.810 c.kim: But yeah.
99 00:06:50.510 ⇒ 00:06:51.150 c.kim: It’s alright.
100 00:06:51.150 ⇒ 00:06:54.089 Robert Tseng: I guess, like, what, what, like, what tools are you using?
101 00:06:54.440 ⇒ 00:07:00.790 c.kim: Depends, right now, so, like, I’m staring at my screen right now, and it’s all NetSuite data.
102 00:07:01.070 ⇒ 00:07:01.390 Robert Tseng: Okay.
103 00:07:01.390 ⇒ 00:07:09.809 c.kim: But NetSuite uses JavaScript for all coding, so JavaScript right now, but, like, a month ago, it was Python for a different problem.
104 00:07:09.810 ⇒ 00:07:10.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
105 00:07:10.830 ⇒ 00:07:19.030 c.kim: Yeah, it’s not like you could just do it, you could figure it out on anything, so… Yeah, I mean, like, baseline coding understanding plus ChatGBT, like…
106 00:07:19.310 ⇒ 00:07:19.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
107 00:07:19.860 ⇒ 00:07:20.669 c.kim: It’s enough.
108 00:07:20.830 ⇒ 00:07:21.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
109 00:07:22.280 ⇒ 00:07:27.240 c.kim: I try to stay away from, like, the low-code tools of the world, just because…
110 00:07:27.360 ⇒ 00:07:29.150 c.kim: I want to keep the skills.
111 00:07:29.380 ⇒ 00:07:33.980 c.kim: in, like, real coding up, but, like, I can do Alteryx if they need it.
112 00:07:34.270 ⇒ 00:07:35.230 c.kim: Yeah.
113 00:07:35.350 ⇒ 00:07:37.000 c.kim: a lot of snowflake…
114 00:07:37.590 ⇒ 00:07:38.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
115 00:07:38.310 ⇒ 00:07:45.339 c.kim: a lot of data bricks, that sort of stuff, so, like, along with it, the SQL or whatever other coding languages they need.
116 00:07:46.550 ⇒ 00:07:50.010 c.kim: A lot of Power BI. I fucking hate Power BI, like…
117 00:07:50.110 ⇒ 00:07:50.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
118 00:07:50.780 ⇒ 00:07:56.370 c.kim: It’s the worst. It’s so ugly and so bad, but… It’s fine.
119 00:07:56.370 ⇒ 00:07:57.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
120 00:07:57.810 ⇒ 00:07:58.140 c.kim: Yeah.
121 00:07:58.140 ⇒ 00:07:58.820 Robert Tseng: Okay.
122 00:07:59.740 ⇒ 00:08:04.899 Robert Tseng: Nice. Yeah. And then… what does your husband do?
123 00:08:05.600 ⇒ 00:08:12.050 c.kim: Matt got his PhD in computer science not that long ago. Yeah.
124 00:08:12.270 ⇒ 00:08:19.730 c.kim: And right now, he is a data scientist for, like, a small military contracting startup.
125 00:08:19.730 ⇒ 00:08:20.420 Robert Tseng: Okay.
126 00:08:20.450 ⇒ 00:08:20.990 c.kim: Yeah.
127 00:08:21.980 ⇒ 00:08:23.589 c.kim: very DC of him.
128 00:08:23.750 ⇒ 00:08:25.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah. I guess that makes sense.
129 00:08:25.490 ⇒ 00:08:26.350 c.kim: Yeah.
130 00:08:27.020 ⇒ 00:08:35.359 Robert Tseng: Yeah, military and finance, I guess, or government, government, military, and finance, like, I guess, yeah, all… all… all… all… all stuff I would expect from DC.
131 00:08:35.460 ⇒ 00:08:41.709 c.kim: Yeah, basically. We moved here because he got an offer from the NSA originally.
132 00:08:41.840 ⇒ 00:08:42.460 Robert Tseng: Oh.
133 00:08:42.460 ⇒ 00:08:51.930 c.kim: Yeah, I know, crazy. But he just barely, and when I say just barely, I mean 14 months later, finished his clearance processing.
134 00:08:52.300 ⇒ 00:08:54.229 c.kim: And so,
135 00:08:54.440 ⇒ 00:09:07.630 c.kim: now that that’s done, he has to get adjudicated, and then once that’s done, they’ll, like, give him an official start date. But we’ve basically just been living in DC for 15 months now, just waiting for the NSA to get their shit together.
136 00:09:07.630 ⇒ 00:09:09.009 Robert Tseng: It takes that long, that’s.
137 00:09:09.010 ⇒ 00:09:18.359 c.kim: Yeah, it’s nuts. Like, thank God I have a stable job, and so he could kind of just do whatever he wanted in the meantime, which is how he ended up at the startup, but, like.
138 00:09:18.360 ⇒ 00:09:19.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
139 00:09:19.080 ⇒ 00:09:20.950 c.kim: Yeah, that’s why we’re in DC, though.
140 00:09:20.950 ⇒ 00:09:23.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but he, like, intends to leave and go work for the NSA, yeah.
141 00:09:23.830 ⇒ 00:09:24.210 c.kim: Yeah.
142 00:09:24.210 ⇒ 00:09:28.020 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, alright. Well, yeah, that’s exciting.
143 00:09:28.800 ⇒ 00:09:29.400 c.kim: It’s cool. Yeah.
144 00:09:30.040 ⇒ 00:09:33.880 c.kim: Yeah. And we have a dog. My dog is here. He’s sleeping.
145 00:09:33.880 ⇒ 00:09:35.850 Robert Tseng: Nice!
146 00:09:35.880 ⇒ 00:09:41.439 c.kim: Yeah. Were you in DC when… when Maya was, like, in Baltimore, or…
147 00:09:41.560 ⇒ 00:09:42.790 Robert Tseng: I… no?
148 00:09:42.790 ⇒ 00:09:44.610 c.kim: Maya was in Baltimore?
149 00:09:45.330 ⇒ 00:09:50.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess… well, she went to school there for a couple years or something, so… Right. I don’t know if you guys overlapped.
150 00:09:51.550 ⇒ 00:09:53.720 c.kim: What’s her last name, Prakash? I knew that.
151 00:09:53.720 ⇒ 00:09:54.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
152 00:09:54.470 ⇒ 00:09:59.120 c.kim: Hold up, let’s be tuned. She is… She’s in London!
153 00:10:00.840 ⇒ 00:10:01.590 c.kim: What?
154 00:10:04.090 ⇒ 00:10:10.200 c.kim: Should’ve talked to her. You know what’s funny is I actually think I talked to Maya’s little sister more recently than I talked to Maya.
155 00:10:10.200 ⇒ 00:10:14.390 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah? Yeah. What, what is… what is… what is she up to? Flora, right? Yeah.
156 00:10:14.490 ⇒ 00:10:23.720 c.kim: She was asking me to do, like, a panel for women in business or something like that at USC for a little club she was in, so I did it. But that was also, like…
157 00:10:24.190 ⇒ 00:10:30.729 c.kim: 3 years ago, maybe, so… Wow! Oh wait, but Maya came to my wedding. No, did she?
158 00:10:34.790 ⇒ 00:10:36.150 c.kim: moderately did.
159 00:10:36.650 ⇒ 00:10:37.280 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
160 00:10:37.910 ⇒ 00:10:42.669 c.kim: There was, like, a… oh, Madhrei, Thomas, and, like, a couple other people came. Trying to remember who.
161 00:10:42.670 ⇒ 00:10:43.110 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
162 00:10:43.110 ⇒ 00:10:43.830 c.kim: But yeah.
163 00:10:46.990 ⇒ 00:10:47.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
164 00:10:48.160 ⇒ 00:10:51.179 Robert Tseng: Do you still stay in touch with tennis folks?
165 00:10:52.150 ⇒ 00:10:57.530 c.kim: Hmm… Honestly, no.
166 00:10:57.650 ⇒ 00:11:02.570 c.kim: Not really. I wish I did. Every once in a while, like, Claire will text me.
167 00:11:02.950 ⇒ 00:11:03.780 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
168 00:11:05.000 ⇒ 00:11:06.819 Robert Tseng: Yeah, she’s good at keeping out with people.
169 00:11:07.020 ⇒ 00:11:07.900 c.kim: Yeah.
170 00:11:08.300 ⇒ 00:11:08.870 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
171 00:11:09.290 ⇒ 00:11:12.409 c.kim: But I miss them. I think about it a lot.
172 00:11:12.840 ⇒ 00:11:15.259 c.kim: Oh, did you hear about Zach?
173 00:11:16.470 ⇒ 00:11:17.389 Robert Tseng: No, I’ve been…
174 00:11:17.390 ⇒ 00:11:21.030 c.kim: Zach had, like, a really aggressive form of leukemia.
175 00:11:22.200 ⇒ 00:11:23.290 Robert Tseng: Oh, wow.
176 00:11:23.290 ⇒ 00:11:24.030 c.kim: Yeah.
177 00:11:24.760 ⇒ 00:11:25.810 c.kim: Yeah.
178 00:11:26.100 ⇒ 00:11:31.650 c.kim: It was scary. He’s okay now, I think, but like… Yeah.
179 00:11:31.980 ⇒ 00:11:34.070 c.kim: The man has been through the wringer.
180 00:11:34.420 ⇒ 00:11:35.120 Robert Tseng: Wow.
181 00:11:35.540 ⇒ 00:11:36.280 c.kim: Yeah.
182 00:11:38.760 ⇒ 00:11:45.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, we’re at that age now where people are, like, dealing with, kind of, real health crises.
183 00:11:45.450 ⇒ 00:11:47.030 c.kim: I’m like, yeah.
184 00:11:47.250 ⇒ 00:11:47.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
185 00:11:49.060 ⇒ 00:11:49.870 c.kim: Bye.
186 00:11:49.870 ⇒ 00:11:52.379 Robert Tseng: But you’re, you’re okay? No, no.
187 00:11:52.380 ⇒ 00:11:56.600 c.kim: I’m okay. I have a bum ankle right now, but other than that, I’m okay.
188 00:11:56.600 ⇒ 00:11:57.280 Robert Tseng: Nice.
189 00:11:57.420 ⇒ 00:12:01.470 Robert Tseng: You still play tennis, or, like, kind of what… what do you… how do you keep… what do you keep up with these.
190 00:12:01.470 ⇒ 00:12:06.199 c.kim: I play tennis probably, like, 4 times a year now.
191 00:12:06.390 ⇒ 00:12:07.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sounded about right.
192 00:12:07.940 ⇒ 00:12:09.199 c.kim: For me, yeah.
193 00:12:09.200 ⇒ 00:12:15.730 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t really play in New York, which is… it’s just hard to find places to play. Yeah. I play more pickleball now.
194 00:12:15.730 ⇒ 00:12:18.760 c.kim: No! No!
195 00:12:19.780 ⇒ 00:12:20.890 c.kim: Say it ain’t so.
196 00:12:20.890 ⇒ 00:12:25.389 Robert Tseng: Well, not the fast few months, but I was playing a lot when I first moved here.
197 00:12:26.070 ⇒ 00:12:26.830 c.kim: Yeah.
198 00:12:27.410 ⇒ 00:12:33.659 c.kim: Oh my god. What do you mean you don’t want to pay $80 an hour to use the courts at Columbia?
199 00:12:33.660 ⇒ 00:12:34.300 Robert Tseng: I know.
200 00:12:34.620 ⇒ 00:12:37.089 Robert Tseng: And that’s like… that’s like the cheapest one, you know?
201 00:12:37.090 ⇒ 00:12:37.470 c.kim: Yeah, no.
202 00:12:37.470 ⇒ 00:12:38.165 Robert Tseng: So…
203 00:12:39.390 ⇒ 00:12:44.850 c.kim: Just be like every other, like, quarter-life crisis person and start running.
204 00:12:45.320 ⇒ 00:12:50.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I do run, but that to me is not really fun. I just do it just to…
205 00:12:51.340 ⇒ 00:12:56.890 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, to kind of keep away the health problems, but… Yeah.
206 00:12:57.170 ⇒ 00:12:58.300 c.kim: Fair enough, yeah.
207 00:12:58.300 ⇒ 00:12:58.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
208 00:13:00.030 ⇒ 00:13:01.020 Robert Tseng: Nice!
209 00:13:02.980 ⇒ 00:13:11.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I… I guess, you… I… I don’t know, I just… I was… I was just curious what you were up to. Thanks for… thanks for jumping on the call.
210 00:13:11.770 ⇒ 00:13:12.230 c.kim: Yeah.
211 00:13:12.230 ⇒ 00:13:21.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I run a data and AI consultancy right now, and I mean, your skill set is, like, pretty… fits pretty well with, kind of, what we do.
212 00:13:21.480 ⇒ 00:13:22.610 c.kim: Yeah.
213 00:13:22.930 ⇒ 00:13:27.859 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I don’t… I don’t really talk to data people that often, and I mean.
214 00:13:28.170 ⇒ 00:13:30.030 Robert Tseng: finance and PE,
215 00:13:30.390 ⇒ 00:13:41.530 Robert Tseng: We’re not really doing anything heavy like finance right now, like, I’ve kind of stayed away from it a while, but I’m interested in PE. Like, I’m curious, like, what it’s like working with PE firms and, like.
216 00:13:42.600 ⇒ 00:13:44.099 Robert Tseng: Kind of reporting you build for that.
217 00:13:44.100 ⇒ 00:13:46.230 c.kim: I feel like P.E. is, like…
218 00:13:47.140 ⇒ 00:14:01.459 c.kim: kind of misleading for my job title, because, like, I’m part of private equity performance improvement, like, it’s the official branch, and then under that, CFO services, but, like, you could probably go through this job and never know
219 00:14:01.460 ⇒ 00:14:09.559 c.kim: that you are working with private equity firms. Like, we work directly with the portfolio companies of private equity firms.
220 00:14:10.140 ⇒ 00:14:17.140 c.kim: And so, like, the fires that we’re putting out are for the owned entity, not the ownership group.
221 00:14:17.470 ⇒ 00:14:18.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
222 00:14:18.090 ⇒ 00:14:29.059 c.kim: But, like, every once in a while, you’ll end up on a project where the ownership group actually cares about what you’re doing and wants updates. So, like, if you end up on a project like that, it becomes, like, a PE project.
223 00:14:29.230 ⇒ 00:14:30.090 c.kim: But…
224 00:14:30.260 ⇒ 00:14:39.479 c.kim: I would say, like, 80% of the time, it’s just like any other gig, and I’m just dealing with another client that happens to be owned by private equity.
225 00:14:39.850 ⇒ 00:14:40.610 Robert Tseng: I see.
226 00:14:41.160 ⇒ 00:14:41.830 c.kim: Yeah.
227 00:14:42.730 ⇒ 00:14:45.500 c.kim: But, like, it’s alright. Private equity…
228 00:14:45.680 ⇒ 00:14:52.800 c.kim: people are, like, kind of nuts. Like, when you do have to get involved with the owners or, like, the analysts from the ownership group.
229 00:14:53.260 ⇒ 00:15:01.429 c.kim: they’re, like, very hardcore. Like, everything that comes as a stereotype of a private equity firm just being, like.
230 00:15:02.140 ⇒ 00:15:08.500 c.kim: cold and ruthless, and just, like, whatever it takes to get it done to, like, improve margins is kind of true.
231 00:15:08.840 ⇒ 00:15:14.420 c.kim: scare that one’s kind of scary. But, like… You know…
232 00:15:15.190 ⇒ 00:15:27.239 c.kim: Yeah. It also depends on the private equity group, though. Like, some are a little bit more aggressive than others. Like, at KPMG, one of my clients was an ownership group, like a firm.
233 00:15:27.490 ⇒ 00:15:34.400 c.kim: And for them, they were just, like, hotels and entertainment, and so it was really chill. And, like.
234 00:15:34.400 ⇒ 00:15:34.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
235 00:15:34.750 ⇒ 00:15:37.699 c.kim: It was… Kind of on-brand for, like.
236 00:15:38.050 ⇒ 00:15:46.420 c.kim: hospitality, and it just kind of made sense, the vibes that were going on there, like, yeah, we should probably make things better, but also just, like, we’re working through it, it’s fine.
237 00:15:46.620 ⇒ 00:15:50.580 Robert Tseng: Yeah. And I worked for one that was, like, sports stadium ownership.
238 00:15:50.940 ⇒ 00:16:03.109 c.kim: Okay. And they were nuts. They were, like, all about the margins, and, like, milking every penny out of the human experience at, like, a sports venue, and I was just like, whoa, you guys are crazy, like…
239 00:16:03.500 ⇒ 00:16:07.560 c.kim: This is wild, but, like… Meow.
240 00:16:08.670 ⇒ 00:16:09.460 c.kim: No.
241 00:16:10.050 ⇒ 00:16:10.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
242 00:16:10.530 ⇒ 00:16:11.550 c.kim: Varies.
243 00:16:12.060 ⇒ 00:16:12.960 c.kim: No.
244 00:16:13.330 ⇒ 00:16:13.990 c.kim: How does it?
245 00:16:13.990 ⇒ 00:16:14.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
246 00:16:14.430 ⇒ 00:16:24.589 c.kim: just, like, owning a company. Like, I could not possibly imagine being in charge of anything other than just doing the work. Like, that sounds crazy to me.
247 00:16:24.830 ⇒ 00:16:27.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I… you kinda have to…
248 00:16:28.160 ⇒ 00:16:42.269 Robert Tseng: I mean, you have to… you have to be involved in everything, like, I… I sell, I close most of our deals, and then I also have to work them, or… I mean, it started off that way, anyway. I’ve kind of built out a team now, probably, like, 16 people. Oh, nice! Yeah.
249 00:16:42.530 ⇒ 00:16:50.280 Robert Tseng: So we’re not, like… I mean, we’re now trying… I mean, I want to sell to private equity, I think it seems like it would be,
250 00:16:51.360 ⇒ 00:16:54.890 Robert Tseng: It seems like a way to move upmarket.
251 00:16:54.890 ⇒ 00:16:55.410 c.kim: Yeah.
252 00:16:55.410 ⇒ 00:17:01.929 Robert Tseng: Then having to sell to, like, each of the port codes individually, like, just kind of go for the ownership group.
253 00:17:01.930 ⇒ 00:17:02.360 c.kim: Yeah.
254 00:17:02.360 ⇒ 00:17:07.680 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I don’t… I’m not… I don’t come from that world, so I don’t really know what they… what they really are looking for, and…
255 00:17:08.050 ⇒ 00:17:11.769 Robert Tseng: And, how the whole sale, like, the sale cycle is different.
256 00:17:11.770 ⇒ 00:17:12.650 c.kim: Yeah.
257 00:17:12.650 ⇒ 00:17:13.550 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
258 00:17:13.550 ⇒ 00:17:16.080 c.kim: Okay, I mean, that makes sense.
259 00:17:16.680 ⇒ 00:17:22.190 c.kim: I don’t actually know how it would work for private equity to buy a consultancy
260 00:17:22.530 ⇒ 00:17:25.470 c.kim: Without the intention of, like, turning it over.
261 00:17:26.770 ⇒ 00:17:27.380 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
262 00:17:27.569 ⇒ 00:17:32.369 c.kim: Because that’s typically… I guess that’s not actually true. Some private equity firms just own
263 00:17:32.779 ⇒ 00:17:36.579 c.kim: organizations, but, like, I don’t know how it would work as being
264 00:17:36.969 ⇒ 00:17:43.059 c.kim: owned, not for the purposes of being a portco, but for the purposes of, like, Because… Sure.
265 00:17:43.060 ⇒ 00:17:51.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and for me, in-house. Like, I mean, you’re, like, an in-house… Data person for, like.
266 00:17:51.560 ⇒ 00:17:52.519 Robert Tseng: Oh, I guess…
267 00:17:52.770 ⇒ 00:18:05.439 Robert Tseng: It’s in, I mean, that’s what they do, right? They sell to… or, like, you work with PE firms, and, like, you help them with diligence, or you kind of get planted in their port codes, and you do stuff, like, yeah, so I…
268 00:18:06.060 ⇒ 00:18:07.739 c.kim: We’re just not owned by PE.
269 00:18:07.740 ⇒ 00:18:13.870 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m not saying I didn’t want to be owned by them. I would like to, like, sell services to them as well.
270 00:18:13.880 ⇒ 00:18:15.030 c.kim: Oh, I got it. Okay.
271 00:18:15.030 ⇒ 00:18:15.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
272 00:18:15.680 ⇒ 00:18:16.410 c.kim: Yeah.
273 00:18:16.560 ⇒ 00:18:24.369 c.kim: I mean, a lot of the sales that happens around here is purely, like, word of mouth. Like, managing director knows…
274 00:18:24.840 ⇒ 00:18:33.560 c.kim: fund manager at PE firm who says XYZ Portco needs help, and then we just plug in and then, like, rock and roll, and that’s kind of it.
275 00:18:33.670 ⇒ 00:18:34.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
276 00:18:35.000 ⇒ 00:18:40.209 Robert Tseng: what are, like, the project timelines like, and, like, I don’t know how… I mean, you’ve… I guess you’ve…
277 00:18:40.710 ⇒ 00:18:52.050 Robert Tseng: kind of… you worked in different types of industries, so, like, I’m just trying to understand, like, a sense of, like, what do they look for, for you to, like… I mean, I understand that it’s a handshake deal a lot of the time, but, like,
278 00:18:52.270 ⇒ 00:18:53.150 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
279 00:18:53.150 ⇒ 00:18:57.709 c.kim: It really depends. So, like, for example, I’m on a project right now.
280 00:18:58.550 ⇒ 00:19:08.780 c.kim: where the client… so the Port Co. is, like, an animations and, like, TV screen processing software company.
281 00:19:09.000 ⇒ 00:19:17.240 c.kim: But for them, we were brought on specifically because they’re running out of cash.
282 00:19:17.350 ⇒ 00:19:25.100 c.kim: And they need help, and it’s like an SOS all-hands-on-deck sort of project, not like a, oh, we could use some more reporting projects.
283 00:19:25.100 ⇒ 00:19:25.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
284 00:19:25.770 ⇒ 00:19:40.869 c.kim: So, like, the intention of this is A&M plugged in, like, a CFO from our organization, and so, like, that person will probably stick around for the next, like, 6 months-ish. From, like, the data analytics perspective.
285 00:19:40.970 ⇒ 00:19:47.160 c.kim: My only job was to show up and, like, help them pull SQL queries and tell them that they’re,
286 00:19:47.790 ⇒ 00:19:56.729 c.kim: consumption layer of data is a mess, and that they need to fix it. And so I really kind of just showed up for, like, 2 months, told them everything that was wrong, and now I’m gonna dip.
287 00:19:57.070 ⇒ 00:20:12.749 c.kim: And so, like, that one is, like, really short from an engineering perspective, but also, like, there’s another one right now, so that’s sports management, or the stadium management one that I was telling you about. Yeah. That one, if my boss has it his way, is gonna be, like, years.
288 00:20:13.210 ⇒ 00:20:15.210 c.kim: Cause, like… Yeah.
289 00:20:16.030 ⇒ 00:20:32.149 c.kim: internally, honestly, there’s, like, a hot mess, and they have zero quality control over, like, their data processes and, like, all of their internal systems, and so my boss is just showing up with a couple of managers and being like, look, we can build this for you, look, we can build this for you, and they just keep buying.
290 00:20:32.170 ⇒ 00:20:36.930 c.kim: like, all of the stuff that we’re proposing, they’re like, yeah, that sounds great, and so they just keep…
291 00:20:37.120 ⇒ 00:20:39.160 c.kim: Plugging into more and more.
292 00:20:39.330 ⇒ 00:20:41.459 c.kim: Like, invoices for us, basically.
293 00:20:41.880 ⇒ 00:20:42.350 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
294 00:20:42.350 ⇒ 00:20:45.339 c.kim: They’ve been there since at least last March.
295 00:20:45.690 ⇒ 00:20:49.160 c.kim: And the intention is to go at least until the end of 2026.
296 00:20:49.530 ⇒ 00:20:49.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
297 00:20:49.890 ⇒ 00:20:53.690 c.kim: So, like, it’s kind of all over the board.
298 00:20:55.460 ⇒ 00:20:59.409 c.kim: Yeah, that was in English. All over the place, across the board.
299 00:20:59.550 ⇒ 00:21:00.060 c.kim: Yeah.
300 00:21:00.560 ⇒ 00:21:00.930 c.kim: But…
301 00:21:00.930 ⇒ 00:21:01.350 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
302 00:21:01.690 ⇒ 00:21:02.430 c.kim: Yeah.
303 00:21:03.050 ⇒ 00:21:04.810 c.kim: So we kind of just…
304 00:21:05.680 ⇒ 00:21:09.720 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that makes sense. For the 2-month thing, like.
305 00:21:10.810 ⇒ 00:21:20.420 Robert Tseng: you pull… you’re pulling in… I mean, I guess it’s because you’re part of a bigger project, right? And it’s like, they just needed you to go in and basically pull a bunch of internal data so that they could
306 00:21:20.560 ⇒ 00:21:22.829 Robert Tseng: Gotta confirm, like, whatever, like.
307 00:21:22.830 ⇒ 00:21:23.210 c.kim: Yeah.
308 00:21:23.210 ⇒ 00:21:28.519 Robert Tseng: story that they’re trying to tell, and then, like, somebody else on your team is probably gonna go and
309 00:21:28.820 ⇒ 00:21:35.349 Robert Tseng: or, I mean, your CFO is probably, kind of go and right-size some things based on what you… what you’ve kind of shown him.
310 00:21:35.350 ⇒ 00:21:43.240 c.kim: Yeah, also, the two-month project, they have an in-house engineering team who just did, like, a shit job of everything.
311 00:21:43.240 ⇒ 00:21:51.490 Robert Tseng: And so, like, they’re the people that I’m telling did things wrong, and so now the CFO knows that all of this stuff is unreliable, so it’s his job to be like.
312 00:21:51.490 ⇒ 00:21:52.830 c.kim: Fix it.
313 00:21:52.830 ⇒ 00:21:53.170 Robert Tseng: That’s it.
314 00:21:53.170 ⇒ 00:21:59.169 c.kim: called out, so… But they will do the fixing, I just showed up to be like, that’s incorrect, like, sorry.
315 00:21:59.170 ⇒ 00:22:00.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
316 00:22:00.010 ⇒ 00:22:00.640 c.kim: Yeah.
317 00:22:01.330 ⇒ 00:22:01.980 Robert Tseng: Okay.
318 00:22:02.300 ⇒ 00:22:02.950 c.kim: No.
319 00:22:03.730 ⇒ 00:22:18.189 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the world of consultancy. You’re usually walking into, like, a shitshow, and then you’re trying to, like, fix… fix things. If it was all going well, they probably wouldn’t bring you in, so… I’m used to dealing with these kind of messy situations as well.
320 00:22:18.190 ⇒ 00:22:21.350 c.kim: Yeah. Oh.
321 00:22:21.350 ⇒ 00:22:21.690 Robert Tseng: Okay.
322 00:22:21.690 ⇒ 00:22:36.870 c.kim: A lot of what we do as well, specifically, and this is where a lot of the money usually is, is in-distress companies. So, like, these PE firms will specifically hire us when they have purchased a company that is, like, doing really poorly.
323 00:22:36.870 ⇒ 00:22:37.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
324 00:22:37.430 ⇒ 00:22:52.919 c.kim: And so, either they need help, like, wrangling financial data, or they need us to beef up a bunch of stuff on a pretty short timeline, because, like, A, they’re about to go bankrupt, or there’s, like, a big sale coming that they’re not prepared for, or something like that.
325 00:22:52.920 ⇒ 00:22:53.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
326 00:22:53.770 ⇒ 00:22:56.649 c.kim: And so, those tend to be pretty hot button.
327 00:22:56.880 ⇒ 00:22:58.939 c.kim: Yeah. Around here. Yeah.
328 00:22:59.890 ⇒ 00:23:05.480 Robert Tseng: And what are the fast… what are the quick wins that you’re able to do to kind of turn things around in such a short period of time?
329 00:23:06.480 ⇒ 00:23:12.809 c.kim: It depends. My bread and butter is usually, like, automation stuff.
330 00:23:13.260 ⇒ 00:23:17.220 c.kim: So, like, anything that they have running in Excel.
331 00:23:17.790 ⇒ 00:23:27.260 c.kim: and it’s, like, an export from something that they pulled, like NetSuite, or Snowflake, or, like, whatever other ERPs they have. Yeah. Like, whip them up something.
332 00:23:27.990 ⇒ 00:23:37.690 c.kim: In, like, Python, and it just, like, auto-generates everything that takes them 30 days and, like, 2 minutes. Stuff like that. So, usually financial reporting related, so…
333 00:23:38.040 ⇒ 00:23:38.690 Robert Tseng: Okay.
334 00:23:38.690 ⇒ 00:23:39.340 c.kim: Yeah.
335 00:23:40.700 ⇒ 00:23:49.729 Robert Tseng: And does your… are you usually staffed with other people, like, or is you really just focused on, like, kind of… yeah, it’s really financial reporting, and yeah.
336 00:23:49.730 ⇒ 00:23:58.910 c.kim: It depends. All the stuff that I’ve been doing has been very, like, lone wolf style, with, like, someone to answer accounting questions, because I’m, like, not an accountant.
337 00:24:00.300 ⇒ 00:24:08.849 c.kim: But I’ve seen other projects where it’s, like, 6 people from my team who are all cranking out the same, like, workflows at the same time, so…
338 00:24:08.850 ⇒ 00:24:09.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
339 00:24:09.920 ⇒ 00:24:10.580 c.kim: Yeah.
340 00:24:11.110 ⇒ 00:24:11.790 Robert Tseng: Okay.
341 00:24:12.330 ⇒ 00:24:12.930 c.kim: Yeah.
342 00:24:12.930 ⇒ 00:24:14.989 Robert Tseng: Wow, that’s surprising. Huh.
343 00:24:16.180 ⇒ 00:24:16.810 c.kim: Hmm.
344 00:24:17.960 ⇒ 00:24:24.790 Robert Tseng: And then, I mean, I’m just… I mean, I run… I’m… you can tell me to stop asking questions, but I’m curious, like, how do you, like…
345 00:24:25.090 ⇒ 00:24:30.719 Robert Tseng: Do they bill you by hour, or, like, do they put you on a… like, how do these contracts even work?
346 00:24:32.810 ⇒ 00:24:39.559 c.kim: Depends. One of the projects that I was on, it was technically per hour, but they put, like, a cap on it, so it’s like…
347 00:24:39.600 ⇒ 00:24:48.640 c.kim: per hour, but we’re not going to exceed, like, $80,000 for the month, or something like that. Yeah. But some of the more…
348 00:24:48.670 ⇒ 00:25:01.569 c.kim: intense projects, where it’s just all hands on deck, whatever it takes to get done. They just do straight up, per hour, no questions asked, just do what you gotta do. And honestly, these people will pay, like, millions of dollars to get shit done.
349 00:25:01.810 ⇒ 00:25:02.679 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s…
350 00:25:02.720 ⇒ 00:25:03.640 c.kim: Kinda nuts.
351 00:25:03.840 ⇒ 00:25:13.159 c.kim: And I’m like, aren’t you guys strapped for cash, and that’s why you called us in the first place? And they’re like, and then they just pay you, like, a $50 million invoice, like… bro.
352 00:25:13.820 ⇒ 00:25:27.509 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, so that’s, that’s, like, that’s next level from what we do. I mean, like, I would like to sell, like, multi-million dollar contracts. I feel like our contract sizes are somewhere between, like, 500K to a million at this point, but, like…
353 00:25:27.510 ⇒ 00:25:29.120 c.kim: That’s still pretty good. That’s like…
354 00:25:29.120 ⇒ 00:25:29.740 Robert Tseng: It’s…
355 00:25:29.740 ⇒ 00:25:32.240 c.kim: KPMG project size, like…
356 00:25:32.240 ⇒ 00:25:45.630 Robert Tseng: Oh, is it? Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I mean, I think we do pretty big projects, like, they take, like, 3 to 6 months, typically, to start with, and then long… our longest… longest clients have been with us for, like, probably a year and a half at this point.
357 00:25:45.630 ⇒ 00:25:46.030 c.kim: No.
358 00:25:46.050 ⇒ 00:25:55.269 Robert Tseng: So kind of, you know, I get the game, like, I’m there to continually try to find new things and try to sell my clients to do more things, but, like, I don’t…
359 00:25:56.010 ⇒ 00:26:09.950 Robert Tseng: Wow, I mean, it’s… it’s… I mean, I would like… that’s what I’m saying, like, I would like to… I mean, I don’t know if it’s a good fit, like, maybe I don’t want to be in a distressed situation, but… yeah, PE firms are buying up, like, companies that are struggling, like, and then, like, I’m sure they’re willing to pay a lot for it, so…
360 00:26:09.950 ⇒ 00:26:10.949 c.kim: I think, like.
361 00:26:10.950 ⇒ 00:26:16.510 Robert Tseng: that’s why I feel like this is something I’m interested in exploring for us, probably.
362 00:26:16.660 ⇒ 00:26:17.070 c.kim: Yeah.
363 00:26:17.070 ⇒ 00:26:22.410 Robert Tseng: Probably next year’s. There’s nothing really gonna hap… nothing more that’s gonna happen this year. Yeah.
364 00:26:22.600 ⇒ 00:26:23.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
365 00:26:23.790 ⇒ 00:26:31.449 c.kim: The only thing that I think is, like, slightly different, and just worth thinking about, though, is…
366 00:26:31.700 ⇒ 00:26:39.139 c.kim: So, like, at KPMG, There was a huge issue with all of the clients about affordability.
367 00:26:39.290 ⇒ 00:26:54.039 c.kim: And so, like, KP&G was constantly giving discounts and constantly cutting costs, like, everything it took to bring down the rates, because we were regularly losing work to, like, cheaper firms that were willing to do it for less.
368 00:26:54.040 ⇒ 00:26:54.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
369 00:26:54.490 ⇒ 00:27:03.700 c.kim: But A&M… charges, so much. Like, our bill rates are stupid high.
370 00:27:04.060 ⇒ 00:27:05.530 c.kim: And the P…
371 00:27:05.530 ⇒ 00:27:06.790 Robert Tseng: How high are your bill rates?
372 00:27:07.400 ⇒ 00:27:12.850 Robert Tseng: I get billed out at 550, depends on the project. Sure.
373 00:27:13.400 ⇒ 00:27:19.229 c.kim: Is that right? Yeah, and I think our MDs get billed at, like.
374 00:27:19.450 ⇒ 00:27:23.299 c.kim: 7 or 800? Hold on, I have it somewhere. One moment.
375 00:27:23.440 ⇒ 00:27:33.150 c.kim: Whereas, like, at KPMG, It’s, like, a percentage of that. It’s not loading. Why aren’t you loading?
376 00:27:33.870 ⇒ 00:27:39.399 c.kim: And I was, like, very confused.
377 00:27:39.400 ⇒ 00:27:42.329 Robert Tseng: But it’s, like, a similar work. Yeah. Is what you’re saying. Yeah.
378 00:27:42.330 ⇒ 00:27:42.790 c.kim: Yeah.
379 00:27:42.790 ⇒ 00:27:46.220 Robert Tseng: So yeah, it is really just the business model, but yeah, anyway, you were gonna say?
380 00:27:46.220 ⇒ 00:27:51.919 c.kim: So, like, KPMG, for lower rates, was still losing work.
381 00:27:52.290 ⇒ 00:27:54.260 c.kim: Because they were too expensive.
382 00:27:54.450 ⇒ 00:27:59.060 c.kim: Whereas, like, A&M charging, like, a lot more.
383 00:27:59.280 ⇒ 00:28:08.889 c.kim: is still winning more work and still growing, and we haven’t had a utilization problem, and according to the bosses, like, years. Like, pre-COVID.
384 00:28:09.220 ⇒ 00:28:14.579 c.kim: And I was like, how is that actually possible if everybody cares so much about rates?
385 00:28:14.730 ⇒ 00:28:16.220 c.kim: Apparently?
386 00:28:16.430 ⇒ 00:28:20.630 c.kim: A lot of why we win the work is purely, like, name brand.
387 00:28:21.040 ⇒ 00:28:30.039 c.kim: So, like, these people are paying premiums specifically for A&M, and will, like, actively choose us over lower-priced competitors.
388 00:28:30.200 ⇒ 00:28:30.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
389 00:28:30.690 ⇒ 00:28:37.610 c.kim: Which I thought was frickin’ bananas, because we’re so expensive. Like, I’m looking at my senior director rate, and it’s like $7.50 an hour.
390 00:28:38.100 ⇒ 00:28:39.659 Robert Tseng: Wow. So, like…
391 00:28:40.460 ⇒ 00:28:41.260 c.kim: Yeah.
392 00:28:42.690 ⇒ 00:28:47.170 c.kim: And we don’t really do discounts either, is my understanding.
393 00:28:47.430 ⇒ 00:28:56.660 c.kim: So, like, I don’t know if in PE, the attitude is, like, We’ll just take…
394 00:28:57.730 ⇒ 00:29:06.439 c.kim: The most affordable person, or, like, they care about the name brand, because when we do, like, our quarterly or yearly get-togethers.
395 00:29:06.690 ⇒ 00:29:11.970 c.kim: My boss’s presentations are all comparisons to, like, McKinsey and stuff.
396 00:29:12.460 ⇒ 00:29:17.299 c.kim: Which we’re, like, obviously we’re not one of the big three, But in terms of, like.
397 00:29:17.490 ⇒ 00:29:22.300 c.kim: name value in the market. Apparently, it’s, like, up there.
398 00:29:23.380 ⇒ 00:29:25.680 c.kim: So… Yeah.
399 00:29:28.070 ⇒ 00:29:35.720 c.kim: But I don’t know how that works, because I don’t sell work, and I don’t really want to ever sell work, because that sounds stressful, so… Yeah. No thanks, but…
400 00:29:35.720 ⇒ 00:29:36.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
401 00:29:36.900 ⇒ 00:29:37.760 c.kim: Yeah.
402 00:29:39.320 ⇒ 00:29:44.220 Robert Tseng: Okay. No, I think, thanks for, thanks for, thanks for sharing some, some of that. I think,
403 00:29:44.220 ⇒ 00:29:45.070 c.kim: Yeah.
404 00:29:45.070 ⇒ 00:29:49.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, selling the work is my primary job at this point, so…
405 00:29:49.910 ⇒ 00:29:52.470 c.kim: I don’t envy you, that sounds terrible.
406 00:29:52.470 ⇒ 00:29:53.780 Robert Tseng: Oh yeah, yeah.
407 00:29:54.000 ⇒ 00:29:59.340 Robert Tseng: It’s… it’s… it’s fun, in some ways. I think, yeah, I mean, I…
408 00:30:00.390 ⇒ 00:30:14.709 Robert Tseng: I’ve used… I just… I’m always, like, trying. Like, it’s like a number… it’s like… you’re just, like, I’m just, like, throwing out monopoly numbers at this point, and just trying to see what works. Yeah, like, I don’t really think the pricing strategy here is, like, as…
409 00:30:15.210 ⇒ 00:30:20.229 Robert Tseng: as complicated as it is for pricing products. Like, I feel like, yeah, there’s just so many, like.
410 00:30:21.360 ⇒ 00:30:31.269 Robert Tseng: you’re doing the same thing, but, like, one person charges 50 an hour, or whatever, like, it’s like… Yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s interesting.
411 00:30:31.430 ⇒ 00:30:36.820 Robert Tseng: I think we’re… we’re not… we don’t… we charge probably, like, 300 an hour at this point.
412 00:30:36.820 ⇒ 00:30:37.180 c.kim: Hmm.
413 00:30:38.230 ⇒ 00:30:48.729 Robert Tseng: I don’t think I can go much higher, like, I feel like I’ve tested the upper limit without having, like, I don’t know, a big brand name, so I think that kind of checks out, and…
414 00:30:49.010 ⇒ 00:31:01.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I’m also, like… I don’t really think pricing is gonna be, like, my main way to kind of keep growing, and I think I… yeah, I just gotta find, like, somebody who’s in need, and I think that’s…
415 00:31:01.700 ⇒ 00:31:10.069 Robert Tseng: I mean, if they’re all… if people who are distressed are calling the big names, like, I think that makes sense, but there… maybe there’s, like, another… another market that I’m… I’m still, like…
416 00:31:10.070 ⇒ 00:31:10.670 c.kim: sure, they’re.
417 00:31:10.670 ⇒ 00:31:13.670 Robert Tseng: Like, low, lower, like, lower tier fees, yeah.
418 00:31:13.670 ⇒ 00:31:15.330 c.kim: Yeah. It’s like…
419 00:31:15.330 ⇒ 00:31:15.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
420 00:31:16.620 ⇒ 00:31:21.380 c.kim: Do you just have, like, a collection of data people that works for your company? Like…
421 00:31:21.760 ⇒ 00:31:23.399 c.kim: Yeah, yeah. That’s kind of…
422 00:31:23.400 ⇒ 00:31:29.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah, there’s a bunch of data engineers, and not just data engineers, but yeah, just, like, data people, yeah.
423 00:31:29.450 ⇒ 00:31:30.050 c.kim: Yeah.
424 00:31:30.050 ⇒ 00:31:30.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
425 00:31:31.280 ⇒ 00:31:38.770 c.kim: Dang. That’s so cool, though! Like, having a company, and just, like, being in charge? Like, that’s wild, but…
426 00:31:38.770 ⇒ 00:31:46.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, it’s… that’s what I’m saying, it’s been fun. Every day is not the same, and yeah, I mean, if anything, it’s…
427 00:31:46.260 ⇒ 00:31:51.229 Robert Tseng: It’s giving me a platform to just go and talk to a lot of people that I normally wouldn’t be able to talk to.
428 00:31:51.230 ⇒ 00:31:51.670 c.kim: Yeah.
429 00:31:51.670 ⇒ 00:31:57.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’m just… just learning, it pays the bills, and I get to… I get to…
430 00:31:57.410 ⇒ 00:31:59.840 Robert Tseng: Pay, pay my, pay my people, and…
431 00:32:00.020 ⇒ 00:32:02.369 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you know, life’s pretty good, so…
432 00:32:02.370 ⇒ 00:32:07.260 c.kim: How does that work? Just, like, find people on LinkedIn, or do they reach out to you? Like…
433 00:32:07.440 ⇒ 00:32:10.720 Robert Tseng: Or people I hire, or for my clients.
434 00:32:10.720 ⇒ 00:32:11.740 c.kim: Clients.
435 00:32:11.740 ⇒ 00:32:23.939 Robert Tseng: Clients? Yeah, I have a LinkedIn motion, like, we… we do direct… we do direct connections through LinkedIn, but also referrals, also partners, so, like, we’re Snowflake partners, so Snowflake will give us deals.
436 00:32:23.940 ⇒ 00:32:24.460 c.kim: Oh, no.
437 00:32:24.460 ⇒ 00:32:28.919 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, there’s a lot of different ways that we try to get deals.
438 00:32:28.920 ⇒ 00:32:29.290 c.kim: Yeah.
439 00:32:29.290 ⇒ 00:32:41.620 Robert Tseng: But yeah, my understanding is that PE is very much, like, you have to know someone in order to get there. It’s not… it’s less about, like, here are all these testimonials of great work we’ve done. Like, people don’t really look at that stuff, it’s more like…
440 00:32:41.690 ⇒ 00:32:55.899 Robert Tseng: do you know the… yeah, you know the MDE or something? Yeah. So, I’m like, oh, that’s a bummer. Like, I feel like I’m… I might be a little bit out of my league there until I build a better network, so I think… I’m like, well, I should talk to more PE people and see if they’ll make interest for me.
441 00:32:56.680 ⇒ 00:33:01.309 c.kim: Fair enough. I feel like New York has gotta be, like, a hotbed of funds in, like, firms, though.
442 00:33:01.900 ⇒ 00:33:08.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and I also enjoy working with smaller clients as well, like, we’ve, we’ve…
443 00:33:09.600 ⇒ 00:33:27.699 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we’ve worked with a few… I mean, I think our sweet spot for us is also just, like, growing startups, and so, especially the ones that do well, like, you know, it’s fun growing with them, and then when things get really messy, then we can leave. That’s kind of… that’s why I’m saying it’s sometimes the best of… best of both worlds, but it is also kind of, like.
444 00:33:28.450 ⇒ 00:33:31.439 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, you’re dealing with just…
445 00:33:31.630 ⇒ 00:33:38.540 Robert Tseng: a lot of… just juggling a lot of different things all the time, so, yeah, it feels like a headless chicken sometimes. Yeah.
446 00:33:38.900 ⇒ 00:33:40.049 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah.
447 00:33:40.050 ⇒ 00:33:45.399 c.kim: Fair enough. What’s cool, though, I still think it’s super cool. Like, wow.
448 00:33:45.700 ⇒ 00:34:05.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I mean, I’d love to ask you more technical questions about your work at some point, especially if we get a finance, like, a finance, financial engineering kind of deal like that. I’d probably be interested in picking your brain. But yeah, my wife and I come to DC, like, pretty often, and the next time you’re in New York, you should let us know. I’d love to get a meal.
449 00:34:05.600 ⇒ 00:34:07.740 c.kim: Yeah, what part of the city are you in?
450 00:34:07.920 ⇒ 00:34:09.139 Robert Tseng: I’m in Columbus Circle.
451 00:34:09.370 ⇒ 00:34:10.330 c.kim: Okay, don’t know.
452 00:34:10.330 ⇒ 00:34:19.000 Robert Tseng: Which is… which is, like, Central Park, southwest corner, Lincoln Square. Oh! Yeah, I’m on… I’m on 59th, yeah.
453 00:34:19.000 ⇒ 00:34:19.840 c.kim: Oh!
454 00:34:19.840 ⇒ 00:34:20.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
455 00:34:20.570 ⇒ 00:34:22.900 c.kim: Wait, that’s kind of a nice part of town.
456 00:34:22.909 ⇒ 00:34:26.549 Robert Tseng: It is, yeah. It’s probably, like, my favorite neighborhood I’ve ever lived in, so…
457 00:34:26.550 ⇒ 00:34:27.400 c.kim: Oh, really?
458 00:34:27.730 ⇒ 00:34:28.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
459 00:34:28.360 ⇒ 00:34:31.860 c.kim: Okay, yeah. We have debated Brooklyn,
460 00:34:32.070 ⇒ 00:34:45.469 c.kim: Specifically Brooklyn, because Matt was interviewing with Google, and now he’s just waiting to hear back. But if we did New York, Matt is, like, full send Brooklyn. Also, because the dog, it’s just a little bit more spacious, but…
461 00:34:45.940 ⇒ 00:34:46.630 Robert Tseng: Yes.
462 00:34:47.110 ⇒ 00:34:50.460 c.kim: Cool! I have… so my friends all live, like.
463 00:34:50.889 ⇒ 00:34:53.980 c.kim: A few blocks away from Grand Central.
464 00:34:54.239 ⇒ 00:34:55.239 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay, yeah.
465 00:34:55.239 ⇒ 00:34:59.749 c.kim: So, like, I spend a lot of time in, like, Lower East-ish side.
466 00:34:59.750 ⇒ 00:35:00.370 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
467 00:35:00.370 ⇒ 00:35:05.480 c.kim: But, like, our office is on… 56?
468 00:35:06.100 ⇒ 00:35:06.760 Robert Tseng: Oh.
469 00:35:06.940 ⇒ 00:35:07.280 c.kim: and Matt.
470 00:35:07.280 ⇒ 00:35:07.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
471 00:35:08.350 ⇒ 00:35:09.530 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, yeah.
472 00:35:09.800 ⇒ 00:35:13.329 c.kim: Somewhere over there. So, like, when I’m in town, I’m usually, like, on that.
473 00:35:13.330 ⇒ 00:35:18.899 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you’re on the east side of Man, which is, I mean, it’s just, like, a few avenues away, so…
474 00:35:18.900 ⇒ 00:35:21.980 c.kim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, wow!
475 00:35:22.720 ⇒ 00:35:23.490 c.kim: Very cool.
476 00:35:23.860 ⇒ 00:35:31.680 Robert Tseng: Cool, yeah, I mean, good to reconnect. Yeah, I mean, I’ll, hopefully I’ll see you or talk to you soon, then.
477 00:35:31.680 ⇒ 00:35:34.289 c.kim: Yeah, stay in touch, and also for your friend.
478 00:35:34.420 ⇒ 00:35:37.309 c.kim: For the engagement shoot, just let me know.
479 00:35:37.310 ⇒ 00:35:43.470 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I’m… I’m just like, yeah, I’m gonna… I’m gonna send her… I’m gonna send her some… some stuff that… later today.
480 00:35:44.020 ⇒ 00:35:50.530 c.kim: No worries, yeah. If you want to send her to my Instagram, that’s also fine. I’m, like… I’m not…
481 00:35:51.300 ⇒ 00:35:53.310 c.kim: I’m not really doing…
482 00:35:54.160 ⇒ 00:36:04.070 c.kim: like, portraits and couples as much as I used to, but like, if they like what they see, then I’m happy to do it. And I don’t really charge anything, really. I’ll do most of it for free, so…
483 00:36:04.070 ⇒ 00:36:05.229 Robert Tseng: Oh, what? No, you stole a.
484 00:36:05.230 ⇒ 00:36:18.440 c.kim: I don’t know, I don’t like charging people, because, like, what if they hate it? I’m just like, I’m not gonna make you pay for this stuff before you know that you like it, like, this… like, pictures are kind of a big deal, like, if it’s not like one, then I feel bad. So, like…
485 00:36:18.440 ⇒ 00:36:19.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
486 00:36:19.000 ⇒ 00:36:23.679 c.kim: This is why I could never run a business, because I would really just be out here never charging people.
487 00:36:26.560 ⇒ 00:36:27.390 c.kim: Bam.
488 00:36:27.520 ⇒ 00:36:30.740 c.kim: Yeah, just keep me posted. But it was nice to hear from you.
489 00:36:30.980 ⇒ 00:36:32.430 Robert Tseng: Okay. Yeah, good seeing you, Christine.
490 00:36:32.430 ⇒ 00:36:34.020 c.kim: Yeah, alright, I’ll share that.
491 00:36:34.020 ⇒ 00:36:35.580 Robert Tseng: Alright, bye-bye.