Meeting Title: Offers and Services Pitch Date: 2025-11-07 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Hannah Wang, Henry Zhao, Awaish Kumar
WEBVTT
1 00:00:53.720 ⇒ 00:00:54.660 Hannah Wang: Bye.
2 00:00:55.680 ⇒ 00:00:58.109 Robert Tseng: Hello! Sorry, give me length.
3 00:00:58.330 ⇒ 00:00:59.790 Robert Tseng: 10 seconds.
4 00:00:59.790 ⇒ 00:01:00.520 Hannah Wang: Okay.
5 00:01:00.660 ⇒ 00:01:03.940 Robert Tseng: I have to move… I’ve, like, had another conflict.
6 00:01:04.190 ⇒ 00:01:05.209 Robert Tseng: Okay, so…
7 00:04:00.600 ⇒ 00:04:03.609 Robert Tseng: Wow, that was a long 10 seconds. Okay,
8 00:04:04.920 ⇒ 00:04:13.590 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, there’s gonna be a bunch of people jumping on this call. We’re basically gonna be doing this FigJam working session, where…
9 00:04:14.240 ⇒ 00:04:29.359 Robert Tseng: I kind of want people to do, like, some stickies on, like, three… in three sections. We’re basically, like, mapping services to ICPs we discussed on Wednesday, and so I’m kind of wanting everybody to just, like.
10 00:04:29.700 ⇒ 00:04:35.150 Robert Tseng: throw their ideas of, like, what things we do that can serve those ICPs.
11 00:04:35.760 ⇒ 00:04:42.950 Robert Tseng: And then we’re going to map it on a… grid of, like.
12 00:04:44.110 ⇒ 00:04:48.950 Robert Tseng: or it’s like an axis, like a graph, right? So, like, what X-axis is like,
13 00:04:51.080 ⇒ 00:04:56.889 Robert Tseng: Value, and then maybe, like, the… Vertical axis is like.
14 00:04:59.570 ⇒ 00:05:04.599 Robert Tseng: how hard it is to deliver. Sorry, I’m not… don’t have precise words to say that.
15 00:05:05.420 ⇒ 00:05:06.330 Hannah Wang: That’s okay.
16 00:05:06.330 ⇒ 00:05:09.279 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so that’s… that’s pretty much it. So…
17 00:05:09.430 ⇒ 00:05:16.569 Robert Tseng: I mean, I could do all the talking, but I was wondering… I mean, I just thought it’d be helpful for you to listen in, because you’re also talking to our ICPs as well.
18 00:05:16.730 ⇒ 00:05:24.530 Robert Tseng: And, could use help also just, like, making sure that the exercise works out.
19 00:05:25.580 ⇒ 00:05:26.360 Hannah Wang: Okay.
20 00:05:26.550 ⇒ 00:05:28.300 Hannah Wang: Do you have the fig jam?
21 00:05:28.420 ⇒ 00:05:30.079 Robert Tseng: No, I haven’t opened anything yet.
22 00:05:30.340 ⇒ 00:05:32.570 Hannah Wang: Okay, do you want me to create it somewhere?
23 00:05:32.570 ⇒ 00:05:33.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
24 00:05:33.850 ⇒ 00:05:36.820 Robert Tseng: I just, like, I don’t really know where we store our stuff, so…
25 00:05:37.180 ⇒ 00:05:41.090 Hannah Wang: Is this… this is, like, a sales… well, I guess it’s…
26 00:05:41.090 ⇒ 00:05:52.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it should be a sales thing, and I… I do think it can… we’ll do this exercise multiple times, like, I… I kinda… like, this group meets every two weeks, supposedly, so…
27 00:05:52.780 ⇒ 00:05:53.210 Hannah Wang: Huh.
28 00:05:53.210 ⇒ 00:06:01.380 Robert Tseng: I imagine that we might add more pages and do more of this kind of, like, collaborative working session stuff. Okay. Basically, whiteboarding, right?
29 00:06:03.510 ⇒ 00:06:06.419 Hannah Wang: Is this, like, go-to-market? Do you consider it?
30 00:06:06.720 ⇒ 00:06:13.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I would consider this go-to-market, but it’s really more trying to involve the folks that are on delivery, so that’s why…
31 00:06:13.280 ⇒ 00:06:13.630 Hannah Wang: Okay.
32 00:06:13.630 ⇒ 00:06:16.510 Robert Tseng: I didn’t add our, like, go-to-market team.
33 00:06:16.670 ⇒ 00:06:20.730 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I’m just wondering where to put it. Okay.
34 00:06:22.250 ⇒ 00:06:28.870 Hannah Wang: I’m gonna share my screen, and you can help me.
35 00:06:29.420 ⇒ 00:06:30.920 Robert Tseng: Okay.
36 00:06:31.960 ⇒ 00:06:35.140 Hannah Wang: Yeah, so this is the… so there’s this giant…
37 00:06:35.700 ⇒ 00:06:45.460 Hannah Wang: bucket, and I feel like it probably fits under internal, because everything else is client-based slash miscellaneous, so…
38 00:06:46.120 ⇒ 00:06:57.139 Hannah Wang: And then within here, there’s the go-to-market doc, which has, like, these random pages, and then this is where we did our lead nurturing thing, and then…
39 00:06:57.140 ⇒ 00:07:00.390 Robert Tseng: Do you think it should be in the same one? Should it just be a separate page on that, or should…
40 00:07:00.390 ⇒ 00:07:03.089 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I was thinking… that’s why I asked, does it go to market?
41 00:07:03.090 ⇒ 00:07:03.960 Robert Tseng: Sure, yeah.
42 00:07:03.960 ⇒ 00:07:04.930 Hannah Wang: Okay. Okay.
43 00:07:04.930 ⇒ 00:07:05.660 Robert Tseng: Let’s do that.
44 00:07:06.620 ⇒ 00:07:21.660 Hannah Wang: Services, mapping… Okay… So you’re saying people are gonna brainstorm Like… Based on the ICP.
45 00:07:21.950 ⇒ 00:07:22.610 Robert Tseng: Yep.
46 00:07:22.920 ⇒ 00:07:32.790 Hannah Wang: what services? Okay, so I’m just gonna create this for now. I’ll… I’ll create it as you talk, and then I can share the link with everyone.
47 00:07:33.020 ⇒ 00:07:34.299 Robert Tseng: Great. Later.
48 00:07:35.680 ⇒ 00:07:41.979 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’m gonna give it, like, another 2 minutes, just gotta prepare a little bit more for this, my notes.
49 00:07:53.470 ⇒ 00:07:59.140 Hannah Wang: Do you know when… is there, like, an insomnia meeting today? Because Utom asked me to…
50 00:07:59.240 ⇒ 00:08:04.270 Hannah Wang: help with the slides, but I don’t know when the meeting is.
51 00:08:04.500 ⇒ 00:08:06.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s in an hour.
52 00:08:06.950 ⇒ 00:08:11.770 Robert Tseng: Like, literally right after this. I haven’t even looked at them yet, so… okay.
53 00:08:11.940 ⇒ 00:08:15.739 Robert Tseng: I… it’s okay, they don’t have to look good, it’s… like, that…
54 00:08:16.400 ⇒ 00:08:29.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, we have… that, to me is not as urgent, because I can just walk them through it, and then we can, like, take a little bit more time to… on the design side before I send it over. I’m not going to send it over in advance.
55 00:08:29.880 ⇒ 00:08:34.889 Hannah Wang: Oh, he, like, sent me the project review deck. I thought you were gonna go over that during the call.
56 00:08:34.890 ⇒ 00:08:38.400 Robert Tseng: I am, but, like, it’s okay if it’s not done by then.
57 00:08:38.400 ⇒ 00:08:39.530 Hannah Wang: Okay.
58 00:08:39.770 ⇒ 00:08:40.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
59 00:08:40.630 ⇒ 00:08:41.039 Hannah Wang: Alright.
60 00:08:41.049 ⇒ 00:08:42.779 Robert Tseng: As long as the content is there, yeah.
61 00:08:42.780 ⇒ 00:08:46.869 Hannah Wang: Okay, he just asked for, like, the color palette.
62 00:08:47.290 ⇒ 00:08:48.349 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay.
63 00:08:48.650 ⇒ 00:08:49.150 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
64 00:08:49.150 ⇒ 00:08:53.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, if you… once we get going here, like, you can… I guess.
65 00:08:53.810 ⇒ 00:08:54.989 Hannah Wang: Try to multitask.
66 00:08:54.990 ⇒ 00:08:56.960 Robert Tseng: You can check out, I guess.
67 00:08:58.520 ⇒ 00:08:59.410 Hannah Wang: Okay.
68 00:08:59.570 ⇒ 00:09:01.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sorry, I pulled you into this last minute.
69 00:09:01.780 ⇒ 00:09:04.219 Hannah Wang: That’s okay. Also, like, no one’s here.
70 00:09:04.220 ⇒ 00:09:05.079 Robert Tseng: Except for Henry.
71 00:09:05.080 ⇒ 00:09:09.810 Hannah Wang: So, Henry. Well, no, that’s because they’re working on the slide, the slide deck.
72 00:09:09.810 ⇒ 00:09:14.180 Henry Zhao: There’s a Bonday.ai, demo going on right now.
73 00:09:14.970 ⇒ 00:09:17.200 Henry Zhao: But in 30 minutes, they should all be done with that.
74 00:09:18.300 ⇒ 00:09:20.519 Robert Tseng: Oh, what the heck? The body thing?
75 00:09:20.520 ⇒ 00:09:21.230 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
76 00:09:21.610 ⇒ 00:09:24.679 Robert Tseng: Not even, like… Is that even a boy porn?
77 00:09:25.500 ⇒ 00:09:26.650 Robert Tseng: Come on, D.
78 00:09:26.650 ⇒ 00:09:27.040 Henry Zhao: Also.
79 00:09:27.040 ⇒ 00:09:27.439 Robert Tseng: Sometimes I get.
80 00:09:27.440 ⇒ 00:09:33.350 Henry Zhao: I put into these demos with, like, no context, so, like, the first 10 minutes, I’m, like, just even catching up on what even is that…
81 00:09:33.350 ⇒ 00:09:37.789 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I… I get it. I also am like that.
82 00:09:40.030 ⇒ 00:09:43.910 Henry Zhao: But Robert, the sales Notion doc is really helpful to kind of understand.
83 00:09:44.200 ⇒ 00:09:46.399 Henry Zhao: Kind of our go-to-market strategy.
84 00:09:46.660 ⇒ 00:09:47.310 Robert Tseng: Great.
85 00:09:47.830 ⇒ 00:09:56.720 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, I mean, I’m not gonna wait for them. You know, we’re just gonna do it with the people we have here, and they can join later. So,
86 00:09:57.660 ⇒ 00:10:04.229 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess… Hannah, do you want to send that link to the Figma?
87 00:10:04.230 ⇒ 00:10:05.250 Hannah Wang: Yeah, sure.
88 00:10:05.250 ⇒ 00:10:08.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that way I can share my screen, I can kind of start talking.
89 00:10:11.280 ⇒ 00:10:15.680 Hannah Wang: Okay, I sent it in Zoom, but let me know if… You can’t open it.
90 00:10:16.120 ⇒ 00:10:16.950 Robert Tseng: Great.
91 00:10:18.240 ⇒ 00:10:20.799 Robert Tseng: Oh, Oakesha’s looking at the doc, great.
92 00:10:23.460 ⇒ 00:10:24.290 Robert Tseng: Okay.
93 00:10:31.410 ⇒ 00:10:33.959 Robert Tseng: Yep, I think it works.
94 00:10:34.350 ⇒ 00:10:35.060 Hannah Wang: Okay.
95 00:10:40.830 ⇒ 00:10:48.100 Robert Tseng: Okay, so kind of just following up on, like, our conversation that we started on Wednesday, we really focused on just ICPs.
96 00:10:49.680 ⇒ 00:10:50.660 Robert Tseng: Oh.
97 00:10:51.520 ⇒ 00:10:58.450 Robert Tseng: Maybe someone tell Awash, like, dude, don’t just, like, add bullets, just come to the call.
98 00:10:59.200 ⇒ 00:11:09.240 Robert Tseng: Hey, you can join the call instead of adding bullets to the… God.
99 00:11:10.560 ⇒ 00:11:16.410 Robert Tseng: Anyway, maybe he’s, like, kind of bored of the Bondi calm and just doing his own thing.
100 00:11:16.410 ⇒ 00:11:17.190 Henry Zhao: So, yeah.
101 00:11:17.190 ⇒ 00:11:33.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay, whatever, I’ll just leave them be. But yeah, so we’re gonna basically take this time to, turn each of these ICPs, into the sections, and we’re gonna just, like, do, like, some
102 00:11:33.980 ⇒ 00:11:43.760 Robert Tseng: spaced kind of blocks where we just, like, brainstorm stickies that we throw, like, things that we would do to, like, serve this,
103 00:11:43.890 ⇒ 00:11:58.050 Robert Tseng: I think, it’d be, like, one round will be, what do we think are the issues that they’re dealing with? And then we’ll do another, like, couple minutes on, like, like, what services
104 00:11:58.520 ⇒ 00:12:05.800 Robert Tseng: like, what are the services that we can provide that will be able to kind of meet those needs, right? And then…
105 00:12:06.180 ⇒ 00:12:09.140 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, that’s… we’ll kind of take it one at a time.
106 00:12:10.150 ⇒ 00:12:14.769 Robert Tseng: So… We had a couple examples here,
107 00:12:21.670 ⇒ 00:12:23.239 Robert Tseng: Great, thank you.
108 00:12:48.120 ⇒ 00:12:58.300 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, we don’t have to organize it right away, and I appreciate that. I think what we could do now is just, we’ll just focus on one, so I guess everyone needs to have this link, I guess.
109 00:12:58.520 ⇒ 00:13:02.670 Robert Tseng: And we’ll just spend some time throwing stickies on…
110 00:13:02.910 ⇒ 00:13:07.680 Robert Tseng: for… I mean, I’ll… maybe I’ll adjust this to…
111 00:13:11.010 ⇒ 00:13:13.909 Robert Tseng: Two minutes is good. We’ll see how we get there.
112 00:13:14.270 ⇒ 00:13:20.929 Robert Tseng: And so, yeah, just think about this persona, and, like, What you think…
113 00:13:22.620 ⇒ 00:13:27.710 Robert Tseng: what problems are they facing? Like,
114 00:13:29.640 ⇒ 00:13:42.960 Robert Tseng: I think I don’t want to over-define it. I do think I want to give people the ability to, like, think very specifically of a particular person, or the circumstance, or whatever it is. Like, I don’t really think we need to over-prescribe it there.
115 00:13:43.160 ⇒ 00:13:52.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay, so we’ll just do that. And, I guess since there are only three of us here, Hannah, you’re also welcome to contribute, or you don’t have to.
116 00:13:53.180 ⇒ 00:13:54.970 Henry Zhao: Okay.
117 00:13:55.380 ⇒ 00:13:56.130 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
118 00:14:11.190 ⇒ 00:14:12.800 Robert Tseng: post friends.
119 00:14:29.000 ⇒ 00:14:30.030 Robert Tseng: another minute there.
120 00:14:33.020 ⇒ 00:14:33.630 Hannah Wang: What?
121 00:14:34.960 ⇒ 00:14:37.279 Henry Zhao: Oh, I was wondering where that music was coming from.
122 00:14:37.550 ⇒ 00:14:39.080 Hannah Wang: Oh, it’s a big jam.
123 00:14:39.080 ⇒ 00:14:40.819 Henry Zhao: Oh, no, I thought I was going crazy.
124 00:16:58.170 ⇒ 00:16:59.180 Robert Tseng: Okay.
125 00:17:00.610 ⇒ 00:17:02.460 Robert Tseng: Wait, what? You guys didn’t write anything?
126 00:17:05.869 ⇒ 00:17:12.659 Hannah Wang: I don’t know what to say. I’m just like, they raised a lot of money, they need help. Like, that’s what I would have put, the sticky.
127 00:17:12.659 ⇒ 00:17:16.380 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay. Well…
128 00:17:16.380 ⇒ 00:17:19.490 Hannah Wang: data, or is it also AI services?
129 00:17:20.000 ⇒ 00:17:29.319 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, it should be… we’re not really prescribing what is just, like, a post-Series A software company, I mean, okay, maybe the prompt wasn’t clear enough, like, I…
130 00:17:30.170 ⇒ 00:17:33.729 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t know, Henry, like, what were you doing?
131 00:17:33.730 ⇒ 00:17:36.279 Henry Zhao: I just want to discuss this, like, right now.
132 00:17:36.670 ⇒ 00:17:40.330 Robert Tseng: Okay, you were just, like, kind of… alright, sure, well, I mean…
133 00:17:40.330 ⇒ 00:17:41.100 Henry Zhao: at your stuff.
134 00:17:42.320 ⇒ 00:17:44.370 Robert Tseng: Okay, I guess,
135 00:17:45.510 ⇒ 00:17:50.170 Robert Tseng: Yeah, let’s, like, we can take some time to discuss here. So, I guess, like, the way that I think about this.
136 00:17:50.170 ⇒ 00:17:53.050 Henry Zhao: I mean, he’s made me kind of conflated, so I’m gonna…
137 00:17:53.050 ⇒ 00:17:53.850 Robert Tseng: Yes.
138 00:17:53.970 ⇒ 00:17:56.520 Robert Tseng: Well, let’s duplicate it later.
139 00:17:59.360 ⇒ 00:18:11.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess, sure. Like, I think there’s this, like, okay, they literally just raised funding, they want to make sure that they’re ready to go to the next stage, they don’t really know what readiness looks like,
140 00:18:11.480 ⇒ 00:18:18.130 Robert Tseng: you know, they’ve tried a lot of things, we call it growth hacking, which is literally just what we’re doing here at Brain Forge, where we’re just
141 00:18:18.270 ⇒ 00:18:25.519 Robert Tseng: Trying a bunch of different things, and hoping that it… it works, and it gets… in order to raise a seed round, like.
142 00:18:26.260 ⇒ 00:18:43.259 Robert Tseng: I mean, raising a Series A is probably… is higher… higher stakes than, so you need to have some proven traction. It’s usually some monetary amount, you have a million in revenue, or you, you know, if your application, like, an app, you have, like, a million users or something, that’s what gets you your A.
143 00:18:44.620 ⇒ 00:19:00.240 Robert Tseng: Then there was, like, kind of, like, a need for, like, okay, well, you know, your growth hacking, like, is not the only thing that you can do anymore. You need to actually have reproducible growth. So, things that are, like, kind of tried and true. Paid ads, retention marketing, own channels, stuff like that.
144 00:19:01.890 ⇒ 00:19:08.329 Robert Tseng: And then there’s another, maybe, aspect of, like, okay, well, they have some initial traction, but they don’t really know who their best users are.
145 00:19:08.720 ⇒ 00:19:12.740 Robert Tseng: Like, this is kind of the state of affairs. Like, I… there’s probably more that we could add, but…
146 00:19:12.740 ⇒ 00:19:13.739 Henry Zhao: Kind of. NF.
147 00:19:13.740 ⇒ 00:19:16.430 Robert Tseng: So, right, a top 3, that’s kind of what it is.
148 00:19:16.690 ⇒ 00:19:25.959 Henry Zhao: Yeah, and I think along those lines, it’s like, at this phase, I think there’s a lot of, like, total addressable market research, where they want to understand, like, what is the amount of revenue that we can…
149 00:19:26.370 ⇒ 00:19:38.440 Henry Zhao: achieve, so they know, kind of, like, how much they want to spend, and how they can justify the costs of, like, the data stack, or, like, whatever they spend on marketing to, like, get to that eventual goal, you know what I mean?
150 00:19:38.630 ⇒ 00:19:39.230 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
151 00:19:43.990 ⇒ 00:19:44.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
152 00:19:45.900 ⇒ 00:20:00.069 Robert Tseng: Yeah, still proving out, kind of, different song, which is basically different, like, metrics around, like, market sizing. So, it’s, like, the total markets, kind of your particular share of the market, and, like, kind of the specific opportunity in the short term that you can capture, so…
153 00:20:01.090 ⇒ 00:20:05.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think they’re kind of, like, kind of to add on to that, there’s, like, a…
154 00:20:16.070 ⇒ 00:20:31.570 Robert Tseng: I don’t have anything to add onto that for now, actually. We’ll just kind of leave that there. Okay, great. So, I mean, you could spend a long time going, like, deeper and deeper into this, but, yeah, I think I just want to kind of keep this conversation going, so we can kind of discuss, like.
155 00:20:33.660 ⇒ 00:20:39.269 Robert Tseng: What are… can we have, like, a second set of, like, stickies that are, like, different colors to these?
156 00:20:39.270 ⇒ 00:20:40.270 Hannah Wang: Yeah,
157 00:20:40.270 ⇒ 00:20:44.409 Robert Tseng: And then now we’re gonna kind of talk about, like, the services that we do have.
158 00:20:44.960 ⇒ 00:20:45.560 Henry Zhao: Okay.
159 00:20:46.020 ⇒ 00:20:46.590 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
160 00:20:50.500 ⇒ 00:20:55.399 Robert Tseng: Okay, so we’ll do another… I’ll just call 3 minutes, maybe less. Okay.
161 00:20:55.630 ⇒ 00:21:00.060 Robert Tseng: So… Go… go at it.
162 00:24:03.950 ⇒ 00:24:08.339 Robert Tseng: Okay, so, I’m gonna extend this further.
163 00:24:08.340 ⇒ 00:24:10.049 Henry Zhao: I think a lot of ours are related.
164 00:24:10.480 ⇒ 00:24:14.130 Robert Tseng: I didn’t even look at what you did, so that’s good. I think we will see…
165 00:24:14.460 ⇒ 00:24:17.210 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so we can kind of just start to, like.
166 00:24:18.520 ⇒ 00:24:22.339 Robert Tseng: Kind of things, so… we’ll just kind of go through each one, so…
167 00:24:22.600 ⇒ 00:24:28.169 Robert Tseng: Building go-to-market experimentation foundations, yadda yadda. I think this is kind of related to this.
168 00:24:28.550 ⇒ 00:24:31.349 Robert Tseng: CAM and benchmark analysis? Sure.
169 00:24:31.470 ⇒ 00:24:40.549 Robert Tseng: Product analytics, yeah, over here, shrink the gap, between what the data shows, what users should do.
170 00:24:41.510 ⇒ 00:24:44.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, that’s pretty much product analytics.
171 00:24:44.490 ⇒ 00:24:46.889 Robert Tseng: Data warehouse and data pipeline set up.
172 00:24:47.440 ⇒ 00:24:49.129 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that kind of goes.
173 00:24:49.130 ⇒ 00:24:51.390 Henry Zhao: Those related to your… yeah.
174 00:24:52.510 ⇒ 00:24:54.199 Henry Zhao: Stitching together disparate…
175 00:24:55.020 ⇒ 00:24:55.630 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
176 00:24:55.800 ⇒ 00:24:57.189 Henry Zhao: You put that together, I think.
177 00:25:00.140 ⇒ 00:25:03.330 Henry Zhao: I don’t know, you can move it, I don’t know what you’re saying. Oh, I see, sure.
178 00:25:05.620 ⇒ 00:25:07.120 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I think.
179 00:25:07.580 ⇒ 00:25:09.250 Robert Tseng: That’s bad.
180 00:25:09.980 ⇒ 00:25:14.119 Robert Tseng: I’m not sure on that one. Dashboard reporting and cleanup,
181 00:25:16.010 ⇒ 00:25:22.190 Robert Tseng: I’m also not sure, and I think creating benchmarks, templates for how… yeah, I guess benchmark I talked about.
182 00:25:22.550 ⇒ 00:25:31.970 Robert Tseng: Data-informed decision making… not sure, triangulation. Okay, so this is interesting. What we have here is, like, yeah, there’s, like, a…
183 00:25:32.060 ⇒ 00:25:51.509 Robert Tseng: these are, like, very clear talking points. These are more aspirational, but they don’t really, like, directly meet, like, some, like, need. I mean, we didn’t obviously flush out all the most… all the needs there, but I think this is an important kind of, like, distinction. It’s like, this is what they think they want, but, like.
184 00:25:52.530 ⇒ 00:26:01.379 Robert Tseng: at this stage, like, is this actually… does this actually meet their needs? I think from a sales perspective, I definitely find myself, like, chatting about these things a lot more often.
185 00:26:01.640 ⇒ 00:26:20.980 Robert Tseng: this is kind of maybe the hook, but then, like, the actual problems that we’re talking about all end up kind of falling into space. And so, like, what do we actually do about the rest of this? Like, how do we kind of reframe this in a way that it actually, like, extends or, like, kind of folds into any of these? Wouldn’t dashboarding and stuff like that go into the upper left?
186 00:26:21.320 ⇒ 00:26:23.490 Henry Zhao: Because they need that to get to the next stage.
187 00:26:24.130 ⇒ 00:26:27.090 Henry Zhao: Okay, sure, that’s fair. I think that one could be…
188 00:26:28.440 ⇒ 00:26:41.999 Robert Tseng: But yeah, other stuff, like, you know, this is about insights, automation, it’s like, yeah, we always want that, but like, it’s hard to get there without… I mean, unless it’s part of any of this work. Like, none of this is stand-alone work that really solves.
189 00:26:42.000 ⇒ 00:26:54.059 Henry Zhao: Well, I would say, actually, thinking better, there could be another purple one that’s, like, operational efficiency and, like, minimizing costs, because I think when you’re at this stage, cost management is very important.
190 00:26:55.900 ⇒ 00:26:57.370 Robert Tseng: Okay, sure.
191 00:26:57.500 ⇒ 00:27:00.240 Henry Zhao: And, like, even reducing, like, manpower of, like, just…
192 00:27:00.640 ⇒ 00:27:04.029 Henry Zhao: Humans being hired, because that costs companies a lot of money.
193 00:27:04.330 ⇒ 00:27:05.410 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
194 00:27:05.480 ⇒ 00:27:13.990 Robert Tseng: I mean, I will… I mean, I would kind of push back a little bit on that, like, at the Series A stage, they were definitely not that disciplined with their costs. I think,
195 00:27:14.520 ⇒ 00:27:32.970 Robert Tseng: for businesses that have been in business longer, like, yeah, sure, Eden’s more disciplined in their costs. I mean, they’re, like, close to 2.50 an hour at us, like, and I don’t know, like, they… like, I’ve said this before, but they make less money than we do every before, so, like.
196 00:27:32.970 ⇒ 00:27:45.960 Robert Tseng: It’s kind of like, they don’t… they’re doing whatever they can just to grow their business at this stage. So, I would say after Series B, or, like, a lot of Series A companies that have been stuck there for more than a year or two years.
197 00:27:45.960 ⇒ 00:28:03.239 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, it’s either because their growth has slowed and that prevents them from going to raising their B, or they’re just, like, not very disciplined in their costs, and it’s just not very profitable, like, running that business. So, I think maybe, like, a more mature or, like, a later stage Series A, but if we’re talking specifically about, like.
198 00:28:03.240 ⇒ 00:28:06.400 Robert Tseng: Those who just raised and, like, really want to accelerate.
199 00:28:06.400 ⇒ 00:28:12.140 Robert Tseng: I don’t think somebody who’s that cost-conscious is gonna pull the trigger on building out data stuff right now.
200 00:28:12.600 ⇒ 00:28:12.950 Henry Zhao: No.
201 00:28:12.950 ⇒ 00:28:14.109 Robert Tseng: That’s my perspective.
202 00:28:14.300 ⇒ 00:28:14.770 Henry Zhao: Fair enough.
203 00:28:14.770 ⇒ 00:28:15.460 Robert Tseng: So…
204 00:28:15.650 ⇒ 00:28:23.949 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, but I think it’s an important distinction to make, like, depending on, like, yeah, the stage of the company really matters, like.
205 00:28:24.250 ⇒ 00:28:26.540 Henry Zhao: Obviously, to run, like, a more…
206 00:28:26.990 ⇒ 00:28:34.939 Robert Tseng: like, to run a sustainable business, like, you do need these things. But, like, yeah, I mean, we’re not… I don’t really think we’re catering to that person right now here.
207 00:28:34.940 ⇒ 00:28:35.610 Henry Zhao: Well…
208 00:28:35.610 ⇒ 00:28:36.210 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
209 00:28:36.550 ⇒ 00:28:37.380 Robert Tseng: So…
210 00:28:37.580 ⇒ 00:28:45.190 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Well, you know, I don’t really necessarily think we have to do this, like, model exercise of, like.
211 00:28:45.280 ⇒ 00:29:01.889 Robert Tseng: you know, what’s hard and what’s not. We’ll just move on to the next one. We’ll do for omnichannel CPG brands. A bit of context switching here, but yeah, I would, like, really try to, like, think about the nuances. Like, this is a very different audience, right? This is, like, maybe omnichannel CPG brands.
212 00:29:01.890 ⇒ 00:29:11.259 Robert Tseng: Doing $10 million plus in revenue, looking to optimize or, like, grow a particular channel.
213 00:29:11.300 ⇒ 00:29:12.180 Robert Tseng: Wow.
214 00:29:12.360 ⇒ 00:29:13.480 Robert Tseng: playing customer worries.
215 00:29:15.550 ⇒ 00:29:17.090 Robert Tseng: acquisition channel.
216 00:29:17.270 ⇒ 00:29:18.140 Robert Tseng: So…
217 00:29:18.910 ⇒ 00:29:26.209 Robert Tseng: Take some time. I mean, you may find some repeats there, but, like, really try to put yourself, I mean, in the shoes of just…
218 00:29:26.420 ⇒ 00:29:39.809 Robert Tseng: I mean, Henry, you’ve now spent a lot of time, I mean, obviously in your career, but also specifically with Eden, like, knowing what these guys think about. So, yeah, I think that’s kind of the lens that we should take here.
219 00:29:40.290 ⇒ 00:29:44.179 Robert Tseng: Let me just quickly pop over to Slack.
220 00:29:44.660 ⇒ 00:29:45.530 Robert Tseng: Brooklyn.
221 00:29:46.130 ⇒ 00:29:47.100 Robert Tseng: Buys.
222 00:29:47.280 ⇒ 00:29:49.819 Robert Tseng: Is the demo that important? Do we need, like.
223 00:29:49.820 ⇒ 00:29:50.280 Henry Zhao: Okay.
224 00:29:50.280 ⇒ 00:29:52.110 Robert Tseng: 10 people on a demo.
225 00:29:52.110 ⇒ 00:29:55.250 Henry Zhao: And I had, like, 3 pings, like, are you attending the demo, are you attending the demo?
226 00:29:59.450 ⇒ 00:30:00.160 Robert Tseng: empire.
227 00:30:00.420 ⇒ 00:30:03.100 Robert Tseng: Okay, here we go.
228 00:30:13.780 ⇒ 00:30:15.400 Robert Tseng: So we’re doing the problems.
229 00:33:09.960 ⇒ 00:33:11.970 Robert Tseng: Don’t let you finish your thoughts.
230 00:33:14.040 ⇒ 00:33:14.930 Robert Tseng: Okay.
231 00:33:15.050 ⇒ 00:33:18.370 Robert Tseng: Well… Okay, here we go. So…
232 00:33:19.810 ⇒ 00:33:25.279 Robert Tseng: Launched new fast-growing channel in the past year with growth, but growth has slowed.
233 00:33:26.050 ⇒ 00:33:29.399 Robert Tseng: kind of… I feel like this is a common theme that I hear often.
234 00:33:29.590 ⇒ 00:33:38.470 Robert Tseng: Also kind of thing. It’s like, great, the things that we were trying, or, like, we’re trying new things, but, like, the growth is not sustained, like, we don’t really know what to do about it.
235 00:33:38.580 ⇒ 00:33:43.159 Robert Tseng: so that could be, like, both in new channels, like.
236 00:33:43.300 ⇒ 00:33:46.370 Robert Tseng: something… Honey Stinger was like, hey, look, we…
237 00:33:46.560 ⇒ 00:33:49.650 Robert Tseng: we expanded into Walmart, and like,
238 00:33:50.540 ⇒ 00:34:02.689 Robert Tseng: you know, we expected it to, you know, not be the size of Amazon, because Amazon’s 50% of our business, but, you know, it’s, it looked like it was growing fast at first, but then now it’s kind of just tapered off, and we don’t really know what we’re doing at Walmart.
239 00:34:03.210 ⇒ 00:34:06.080 Robert Tseng: It’s more or less the sentiment that he had shared before.
240 00:34:07.690 ⇒ 00:34:15.190 Robert Tseng: trying to expand to a new park marketplace they’re not familiar with, doesn’t know what performance looks like, kind of like something about benchmarking here. It’s like,
241 00:34:15.380 ⇒ 00:34:27.129 Robert Tseng: yeah, like, we’re trying to, like, capture new opportunities, but, like, go and expand to new opportunities, we don’t really know how to, like, navigate it, right? Kind of similar thing here, it’s like, D2C company trying to go B2B.
242 00:34:27.850 ⇒ 00:34:40.969 Robert Tseng: Maybe another situation is, like, okay, we’re overly reliant on one marketplace and, or, like, one channel, and we don’t really know, like, how to build up our own, like, our own, like, brand.
243 00:34:44.480 ⇒ 00:34:56.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, that… that one I don’t necessarily hear that often. I think I just… I just put that there. Okay. No deep understanding of trend customers and how to improve retention. Yeah, I think this is great. This is, like,
244 00:34:56.500 ⇒ 00:35:04.030 Robert Tseng: Sure, you got to a point where you’re able to capture a lot of new customers, but then, you know, like, let’s say first-time customers are, like.
245 00:35:04.220 ⇒ 00:35:17.720 Robert Tseng: You know, 60 plus percent of your customer base, which means that you’re a dying business, because unless you keep driving new first-time customers, if you’re not getting repeat customers, you know, at above 60%, like, your business is gonna die.
246 00:35:18.000 ⇒ 00:35:18.750 Henry Zhao: Agreed.
247 00:35:19.110 ⇒ 00:35:32.580 Robert Tseng: need to understand consumer purchase behaviors and trends. Yeah, there’s kind of, like, a need to, like, well, we want to know, like, what our… who our customers are, like, what do they do? Like, how do we better market to different… maybe different new markets?
248 00:35:33.000 ⇒ 00:35:37.400 Robert Tseng: You could, you can think about it, like, vertically, like.
249 00:35:37.640 ⇒ 00:35:50.170 Robert Tseng: how do you get to somebody who’s willing to pay a higher price for the same product? Or horizontally, like, a new category of customers that, like, isn’t using your product right now? Maybe you don’t have the right SKU for them.
250 00:35:50.200 ⇒ 00:36:00.699 Robert Tseng: like, I don’t know, like, hormone drugs. You know, you’re selling female hormone drugs, but you’re not selling anything that’s, like, male. So, like, you need to, you know, expand your product line and move horizontally.
251 00:36:00.700 ⇒ 00:36:14.950 Henry Zhao: Yeah, and there’s a lot of products that also are, like, seasonal, so, like, they maybe do better sales in December, or, you know, people buy it every 6 months, and it’s like, how do I operationally make that effective? And this also goes into, I think, Black Friday and, like, promotions.
252 00:36:15.020 ⇒ 00:36:21.780 Henry Zhao: Like, how do we maximize, like, Black Friday marketing to, like, deal with the seasonality as well as, you know, things like that?
253 00:36:22.340 ⇒ 00:36:22.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
254 00:36:24.970 ⇒ 00:36:30.150 Henry Zhao: Like, that’s something I saw a lot when I worked at Facebook, is, like, CPMs are the highest during Black Friday.
255 00:36:30.270 ⇒ 00:36:31.230 Henry Zhao: But, like…
256 00:36:31.350 ⇒ 00:36:35.979 Henry Zhao: Does that make sense for the company to invest a lot in Black Friday? Just as one example.
257 00:36:36.350 ⇒ 00:36:36.970 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
258 00:36:48.570 ⇒ 00:36:49.410 Robert Tseng: Okay.
259 00:36:49.900 ⇒ 00:36:56.359 Robert Tseng: Unable to tie ad spend to physical? Yeah, sure, I think this is, like, a attribution problem at this point.
260 00:36:56.780 ⇒ 00:37:02.829 Robert Tseng: better set ROI of different ad campaigns, yeah. So, kind of ads, campaigns here. Sure.
261 00:37:03.240 ⇒ 00:37:10.199 Robert Tseng: Okay, I think these are kind of some distinct categories. Yeah, I guess Awaish just joined. What we’re doing here is we’re…
262 00:37:10.360 ⇒ 00:37:25.229 Robert Tseng: you know, taking a few minutes to kind of talk about, like, this brainstorm. One of the problems that each of these ICPs is kind of facing? We already kind of finished the SaaS one, so we already moved on to omnichannel CPG brands that are doing 10 million in revenue, yadda yadda.
263 00:37:26.870 ⇒ 00:37:44.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then now we’re going to spend, like, another few minutes, like, right, describing, like, how our services meet some of these needs. You don’t have to answer to all of them, just the ones that you feel the most comfortable with, but yeah, just kind of duplicate some stickies, and we’ll match them afterwards.
264 00:37:44.480 ⇒ 00:37:46.050 Robert Tseng: Oops.
265 00:37:46.430 ⇒ 00:37:49.249 Robert Tseng: Alright, ready to go.
266 00:37:54.270 ⇒ 00:37:57.100 Robert Tseng: Sorry, I didn’t really like the soundtrack. I’m gonna go with a different one.
267 00:40:51.140 ⇒ 00:40:53.400 Robert Tseng: Okay.
268 00:40:53.800 ⇒ 00:41:01.939 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know we could spend a lot more time writing all of these things, but the point is, like, hopefully what comes across your mind is the most important stuff, so…
269 00:41:02.390 ⇒ 00:41:05.199 Robert Tseng: Alright, so we’ll kind of zoom out a bit.
270 00:41:05.780 ⇒ 00:41:18.240 Robert Tseng: Sorry, I know this is kind of hard to see on your end, but you also have it on your computer, so… kind of go through this. Alright, reporting for channel revenue to modern channel performance. Yeah, I think…
271 00:41:19.440 ⇒ 00:41:25.579 Robert Tseng: This is, like, tying ad spend to, to, to revenue, right, by channel. So…
272 00:41:29.700 ⇒ 00:41:31.330 Robert Tseng: That belongs somewhere over here.
273 00:41:32.040 ⇒ 00:41:35.170 Robert Tseng: Tech analysis, reporting.
274 00:41:36.050 ⇒ 00:41:43.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, that’s… yeah, there’s gonna be a lot of stuff around attribution here. So, I wrote enhanced customer tracking, better attribution infrastructure.
275 00:41:46.460 ⇒ 00:41:47.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
276 00:41:48.530 ⇒ 00:41:55.909 Robert Tseng: I think there’s a lot of opportunity here around just, like, measurement. I think… and the problem… and the common thread is, like, every
277 00:41:55.910 ⇒ 00:42:17.130 Robert Tseng: client we start with, nobody has their… you’re never going to see consistent attribution across all the different, platforms. They’re going to have a North Beam, they’re going to have Google Ads, and they’re going to have, like, maybe something internal set up, either in a… through a CDP or, like, in some data warehouse that someone spun up, and none of the, things are going to match. You know, I just… I just,
278 00:42:17.130 ⇒ 00:42:21.279 Robert Tseng: audited, like, a comp… you know, Mirai Clinical, like, this
279 00:42:21.280 ⇒ 00:42:30.489 Robert Tseng: soap brand yesterday. And, yeah, I think, obviously Facebook ads are saying Facebook has the highest return, and,
280 00:42:30.550 ⇒ 00:42:46.469 Robert Tseng: then Triple Whale is saying, it’s actually not, it’s Google, and then their internal BigQuery is just, like, so messed up that it says that direct… direct traffic is the highest channel. So it’s, like, that’s… that kind of, like, chaos is, like, very typical that we… that we walk into. So…
281 00:42:47.990 ⇒ 00:42:59.770 Robert Tseng: There’s that. Customer 360, I don’t know. Nothing off the top of my head. MER reporting,
282 00:43:02.680 ⇒ 00:43:04.399 Robert Tseng: Also, not really…
283 00:43:04.400 ⇒ 00:43:06.640 Henry Zhao: Sorry, what is… what is mirror reporting?
284 00:43:07.270 ⇒ 00:43:11.300 Robert Tseng: marketing efficiency ratio, it’s really just like a.
285 00:43:11.300 ⇒ 00:43:20.209 Henry Zhao: It’s a full marketing spend, including all your online and offline channels. Like, I think I kind of wrote that to address this one, but it doesn’t actually fit that well.
286 00:43:21.090 ⇒ 00:43:24.189 Robert Tseng: Retention and insured dashboards? Sure.
287 00:43:25.540 ⇒ 00:43:30.159 Robert Tseng: Customer purchase trend, seasonality, yeah.
288 00:43:33.850 ⇒ 00:43:35.840 Robert Tseng: lookalike audiences.
289 00:43:38.670 ⇒ 00:43:39.870 Robert Tseng: Bearing.
290 00:43:41.060 ⇒ 00:43:42.970 Robert Tseng: new markets.
291 00:43:44.560 ⇒ 00:43:46.760 Robert Tseng: New market expansion.
292 00:43:48.600 ⇒ 00:44:00.219 Robert Tseng: I don’t know. You can put it in where you feel like it makes sense. But, okay, I feel like we’re a little bit more off the mark here, in terms of, like, it’s not like saying what we wrote here was not
293 00:44:00.350 ⇒ 00:44:08.620 Robert Tseng: Right, but it’s not directly answering these problems that we, that we share. Or if you think it is, like, make the case for it.
294 00:44:13.030 ⇒ 00:44:16.320 Robert Tseng: So… I think…
295 00:44:18.020 ⇒ 00:44:24.009 Robert Tseng: first and returning customers. Okay, this kind of, like, gets at the heart of, like, churn analysis.
296 00:44:24.180 ⇒ 00:44:36.409 Robert Tseng: So, I think this kind of shows, like, a gap in, like, our, like, capabilities as well. So, I don’t think we’re really able to help people who are doing this, that are, like, trying to really…
297 00:44:36.700 ⇒ 00:44:41.109 Robert Tseng: I mean, just invest in a new channel, I guess, and
298 00:44:41.570 ⇒ 00:44:47.249 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we may not be the first ones to help them stand up an Amazon or Shopify or whatever, which is fine.
299 00:44:47.500 ⇒ 00:45:01.599 Robert Tseng: that may not be… so we’re not going to be working with brands that are, like, really trying to just expand, like a pure Shopify store that’s looking to break into Amazon but hasn’t yet. That’s not a good timing for us to hit work with them.
300 00:45:02.150 ⇒ 00:45:16.569 Robert Tseng: Over here, it’s like, okay, they’re in a new marketplace they’re not familiar with, doesn’t know what performance looks like. Well, this is kind of the situation we’re with Honeystein. We don’t really know if this is going to be a good fit, but they do have a D2C to B2B kind of, like, presence, and
301 00:45:16.570 ⇒ 00:45:24.649 Robert Tseng: we’ll see how well we do. But, like, so far, what we’ve written has nothing really to do… to do with that. So, I think, Henry, as you’re working on that client,
302 00:45:24.690 ⇒ 00:45:30.650 Robert Tseng: yeah, I think that’s probably my biggest concern with… with Honey Stinger. It’s like… I mean, I think the…
303 00:45:30.890 ⇒ 00:45:40.109 Robert Tseng: they meet this ICP, but, like, the services that we’re thinking about don’t necessarily, like, directly address what they’re looking to solve.
304 00:45:40.320 ⇒ 00:45:44.370 Henry Zhao: Yeah, but I think we need some time to think about what our skill set…
305 00:45:44.750 ⇒ 00:45:47.580 Henry Zhao: Can contribute to these problems, right?
306 00:45:47.580 ⇒ 00:45:47.930 Robert Tseng: Yep.
307 00:45:48.150 ⇒ 00:45:55.760 Henry Zhao: I think we shouldn’t, like, freak out just because of this post-it exercise, because we only had 3 minutes, but I do think deep down, we can solve these issues.
308 00:45:55.760 ⇒ 00:46:14.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sure. I mean, I believe that about every problem that we’ve written. But yeah, I think this kind of exercise really… these are the things that are top of mind for you guys that you think that we could do. So, if it’s not top of mind, it’s not, like, what we’re… what we feel truly confident that we could do. So, anyway, I think it’s… it will just take more…
309 00:46:14.810 ⇒ 00:46:18.849 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’ll take more work to be able to service those things.
310 00:46:18.960 ⇒ 00:46:24.109 Robert Tseng: Launch a new fast-growing channel, okay, lookalike audiences.
311 00:46:24.620 ⇒ 00:46:27.090 Robert Tseng: I feel like that’s something close to this.
312 00:46:27.090 ⇒ 00:46:27.540 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
313 00:46:27.950 ⇒ 00:46:29.170 Henry Zhao: I was trying to tackle there.
314 00:46:29.600 ⇒ 00:46:30.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
315 00:46:30.970 ⇒ 00:46:32.010 Robert Tseng: I…
316 00:46:33.600 ⇒ 00:46:41.110 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I do think that there is a place for us to be able to build better segments for them to target, rather than
317 00:46:41.590 ⇒ 00:46:44.480 Robert Tseng: you know, we…
318 00:46:44.850 ⇒ 00:47:01.780 Robert Tseng: We walk into situations where they’re working with multiple growth agencies, they each have their own way of segmenting audiences, they all have their own, like, one co… like, one audience that, like, works really well, and that’s what got them the deal, because they’re, like.
319 00:47:02.020 ⇒ 00:47:20.149 Robert Tseng: hey, look at… yeah, like, that’s just how growth agencies operate. They pitch brands saying, like, hey, they have, like, a… they have a campaign idea that just absolutely crushes, and it, like, worked well across, like, 10 plus brands, whatever. And so they’re like, great, work with us, and, like, run… run every… you know, here’s a certain amount of budget.
320 00:47:20.150 ⇒ 00:47:38.600 Robert Tseng: run your campaigns. But obviously, if you’re only running one winning campaign, you’re not gonna be… you’re not gonna do well, because that’s gonna fizzle out at some point. The tactics have to keep changing. And so, this is kind of like the storm that, you know, brands are working with. Ellie has 15 growth agencies.
321 00:47:38.870 ⇒ 00:47:39.890 Robert Tseng: you know.
322 00:47:40.360 ⇒ 00:47:56.540 Robert Tseng: I guess now Eden doesn’t really work with the growth agency, they have in-house people, but those people cycle out, like, every month or two months, because they… they don’t necessarily do well. So, there is, like, something to say about, like, hey, is this… is this something that we want to get in the cross…
323 00:47:56.540 ⇒ 00:48:02.540 Robert Tseng: pairs of and, like, be involved in building those audiences and helping them? Or is it just kind of, like.
324 00:48:02.570 ⇒ 00:48:06.209 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, this is something we stay away from, we support, but we don’t really like.
325 00:48:06.490 ⇒ 00:48:14.220 Robert Tseng: That’s not, like, a core offering for us. Like, I don’t know the answer. I’m just, like, describing the situation as I kind of understand it from this.
326 00:48:14.830 ⇒ 00:48:17.719 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, it’s a highly risky…
327 00:48:18.060 ⇒ 00:48:31.369 Awaish Kumar: area to get into, like, we don’t know yet the, like, for example, if you are suggesting for new products or things like that. So, right now, we are not conducting any kind of research or surveys.
328 00:48:31.610 ⇒ 00:48:39.040 Awaish Kumar: to basically… Tickle that situation where we… we don’t have data points, enough data points for that.
329 00:48:39.390 ⇒ 00:48:40.840 Awaish Kumar: To answer that question.
330 00:48:41.760 ⇒ 00:48:42.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
331 00:48:42.960 ⇒ 00:48:43.960 Robert Tseng: Okay.
332 00:48:46.160 ⇒ 00:48:52.660 Robert Tseng: Customer 360 here. This might actually be better over here. It has nothing to do with… I just wrote it, because that was on my mind.
333 00:48:53.280 ⇒ 00:48:56.190 Robert Tseng: and myrrh,
334 00:48:56.790 ⇒ 00:49:03.489 Robert Tseng: also may not be the most important thing. Like, I think that’s also why it’s gotta just, like, lingering here. So…
335 00:49:04.810 ⇒ 00:49:09.319 Robert Tseng: Okay, I mean, any other kind of reactions or thoughts to this… to this one?
336 00:49:16.090 ⇒ 00:49:16.950 Robert Tseng: Okay.
337 00:49:17.170 ⇒ 00:49:20.960 Robert Tseng: Hearing none, I…
338 00:49:21.530 ⇒ 00:49:27.349 Robert Tseng: Obviously, I think we should take some time to kind of think through this a bit more.
339 00:49:27.960 ⇒ 00:49:36.149 Robert Tseng: If you look at our current portfolio, this is more than half our business, is CPG brands that are going omnichannel.
340 00:49:38.010 ⇒ 00:49:52.539 Robert Tseng: So, I do think that, like, you know, if we’re gonna double down on this and really be able to serve them better, we gotta have, like, some… some bigger wins, like, bigger, quicker wins. I’ve shared this with Henry before, but I haven’t really shared it with everyone else.
341 00:49:52.600 ⇒ 00:50:10.589 Robert Tseng: But, you know, I’m thinking about, like, what are some services that we have? And it’s funny, because none of us wrote anything about AI. I guess everyone here is on the data team, so… But yeah, like, I think there’s something about, what are… what’s, like, the low-hanging fruit where we can… it’s…
342 00:50:10.590 ⇒ 00:50:25.339 Robert Tseng: it’s easy for us to serve, but it’s, like, very high impact as well, right? And so, you know, I’ve given Henry the explanation of, like, conversion rate optimization is, like, something that’s pretty easy, relatively low lift.
343 00:50:25.380 ⇒ 00:50:28.610 Robert Tseng: you know, you’re basically… I had a…
344 00:50:28.970 ⇒ 00:50:36.160 Robert Tseng: I had a mentor who basically built an agency. His thing was, like… and he worked with all the biggest grants, because he was basically, like.
345 00:50:36.160 ⇒ 00:50:51.790 Robert Tseng: okay, I’m gonna build, like, games on your, landing… as landing pages for your website. So, whether it’s just, like, a random, like, slot machine thing, where you get on… I don’t know if you must have seen it, like, you go onto a brand website, it’s like, spin the wheel, or, like.
346 00:50:51.790 ⇒ 00:51:09.210 Robert Tseng: random slot machine thing, you get, like, a random deal, and then once you get your coupon, then you, or whatever it is, you enter the website, you start to browse. So all they did was, like, add these types of, like, gimmicky things into brand pages.
347 00:51:09.210 ⇒ 00:51:12.479 Robert Tseng: And they, and they, and they blew up. You know, I think,
348 00:51:13.140 ⇒ 00:51:16.859 Robert Tseng: It… it’s… it’s a non-invasive,
349 00:51:17.930 ⇒ 00:51:23.490 Robert Tseng: It’s a non-invasive service. They, don’t have, like, yeah, like.
350 00:51:24.110 ⇒ 00:51:41.270 Robert Tseng: they… it’s… it’s kind of just hosted on a subdomain, so it doesn’t actually impact the client’s, like, actual, like, traffic, so there’s no risk to the website. It’s very easy to run the experiment, because you just, like, kind of expose it to, like, a, you know, a sample group, and you can really see the results immediately.
351 00:51:41.380 ⇒ 00:51:59.659 Robert Tseng: Especially since, you know, conversion rate, you’re just, like, looking at, like, first purchase. And so that was his hook into building… going into brands and working with them. Obviously, once you’re inside, then there… then clients keep asking you to do more things, so then he kind of took his agency and started to go in different directions, and it was like.
352 00:51:59.660 ⇒ 00:52:04.380 Robert Tseng: Okay, they started to do paid ads management, and there’s just, like, basic things that were, like.
353 00:52:04.380 ⇒ 00:52:16.869 Robert Tseng: well, here’s a standardized way of how you do… how you structure your campaign name so that you can actually pick up all the metadata you want. And I don’t need to go into all the other things that we did. He did. But, like, yeah, like, that to me was, like.
354 00:52:17.000 ⇒ 00:52:23.450 Robert Tseng: like, what is the equivalent of that for, like, our business? Like, maybe it’s on the AI side, maybe it’s on the data side.
355 00:52:24.220 ⇒ 00:52:38.349 Robert Tseng: But, yeah, once, you know, he didn’t get to that immediately, but he was trying to just run paid ads, just like any other growth agency, for 3 years, and they stayed around the same size as us, you know, which is, like, somewhere between 1 and 2 million in revenue.
356 00:52:38.530 ⇒ 00:52:56.459 Robert Tseng: But once they switched over and started pitching only the CRO work, then their business grew to a 10 million, you know, revenue business, like, within a year. And then they grew to $30 million before they sold the business. So, like, it just, like, yeah, I do think that having, like, a really clear offer like that makes
357 00:52:56.460 ⇒ 00:52:59.060 Robert Tseng: Makes the biggest difference, for us at our stage.
358 00:52:59.060 ⇒ 00:53:09.169 Robert Tseng: I’m not saying we’re gonna come up with that right now, but, like, that’s… that’s what I’m kind of… as we go through more and more of these exercises, like, I want us to kind of figure out what that looks like for us.
359 00:53:09.870 ⇒ 00:53:16.700 Henry Zhao: Yeah, that makes sense, and also, I think that brings up a point, is, like, we forgot to talk about the pricing analysis. Yep. Like, that could be one.
360 00:53:17.630 ⇒ 00:53:21.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I do think pricing analysis could be… could be one, yeah.
361 00:53:23.390 ⇒ 00:53:24.390 Robert Tseng: Okay.
362 00:53:25.100 ⇒ 00:53:39.829 Robert Tseng: Cool. Well, then, I guess with the group that we have here, we’re not gonna move on and do lifecycle Marketers. My brain’s already kind of getting tired, and I’m kind of tired of talking, and so I’m gonna pretty much conclude at this point. Like, this would probably need a longer working session.
363 00:53:39.830 ⇒ 00:53:46.540 Robert Tseng: But if we could have some, like, homework here, yeah, you know, obviously I share the pricing analysis, or whatever it is, and…
364 00:53:46.540 ⇒ 00:53:55.249 Robert Tseng: I would like us to, you know, within these two different… whichever one you want to focus on more, between Henry and Wish,
365 00:53:55.270 ⇒ 00:54:02.849 Robert Tseng: Yeah, try to… try to extend this a bit further. Like, talk about, you know, we didn’t really go back into here and…
366 00:54:02.890 ⇒ 00:54:22.129 Robert Tseng: talk about our offers, whatever. I will say that today I was working, or this week, I was working on an offer. As I was doing the, like, segment audit for, like, a client, I was literally just, like, building out the doc, like, as I was going… going through it. Obviously, this is incomplete, but, like, you know, just…
367 00:54:22.680 ⇒ 00:54:32.950 Robert Tseng: and you may not think this way, maybe this is, you know, I’m just more of an operationally-minded person, but, yeah, like, I… it doesn’t have to be a package service doc like this, but…
368 00:54:32.950 ⇒ 00:54:44.600 Robert Tseng: you know, Henry, if you’re interested in, like, really thinking through what does that… how do we adapt, kind of, that pricing analysis work? What problems does it actually solve? Yeah, if you want to, like, put together something like that.
369 00:54:44.600 ⇒ 00:54:50.380 Robert Tseng: then I think we have a… then we’ll be getting to a place where we can actually be discussing, like.
370 00:54:50.380 ⇒ 00:55:01.269 Robert Tseng: okay, is this, like, is that a valid service? Like, how do we actually position it under our existing offers? Etc. So, right now, I do think that these are all of the offers that we do pitch,
371 00:55:01.720 ⇒ 00:55:08.449 Robert Tseng: Actually, no, we don’t. We don’t really do anything CRO. Maybe, like, the first 5 are things that we actually… that we actually do.
372 00:55:08.450 ⇒ 00:55:23.619 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I mean, eventually, I want this to be a place where you guys can look, and it’s like, okay, these are all the active offers, all the services that kind of, like, drive these different offers, and then here’s a catalog of all the other things that we’re kind of developing, so…
373 00:55:23.730 ⇒ 00:55:42.159 Robert Tseng: I don’t want us to get too overblown with this, like, I know it’s a little bit abstract, obviously, day-to-day, the work that you’re doing is really just, like, kind of executing on tickets, but the way that we talk about our work has to be in packages and offers and services, and so, like, this is kind of…
374 00:55:42.360 ⇒ 00:55:53.740 Robert Tseng: you know, this is where I spend 25% of my time, really should be, like, 75% of my time, but we’re just… I’m just not there yet. Yeah, so I think this is kind of…
375 00:55:54.010 ⇒ 00:56:02.070 Robert Tseng: you know, where… where I see, kind of, this kind of bi-weekly meeting kind of going towards.
376 00:56:03.310 ⇒ 00:56:04.440 Robert Tseng: Any questions?
377 00:56:04.440 ⇒ 00:56:13.649 Awaish Kumar: So, the bullet points I added was, like, I was kind of thinking in this similar way, where we have this packaged
378 00:56:13.970 ⇒ 00:56:24.499 Awaish Kumar: service, which we can easily do, like, the things which I… the float I have shown using arrows, like, I might not have given the, like.
379 00:56:24.640 ⇒ 00:56:30.839 Awaish Kumar: like, nice titles, but that’s what, like, we have been… we have been offering to our clients right now.
380 00:56:31.010 ⇒ 00:56:36.309 Awaish Kumar: and the flows and the tools which I’ve… I’ve written are, like.
381 00:56:36.440 ⇒ 00:56:43.349 Awaish Kumar: Kind of… we can offer them as a package, and, like, we have these capabilities to execute on this.
382 00:56:43.630 ⇒ 00:56:51.839 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so definitely the Heedra one. The go-to-market team is already working on that. It’ll probably go live next week, but I basically have them pitching
383 00:56:51.840 ⇒ 00:57:04.280 Robert Tseng: there’s a… there’s a group of 50 Series A startups that Joe found that have raised money in the past 6 months that look like Hydra, and Sparkplug, and… and Knit, and…
384 00:57:04.780 ⇒ 00:57:23.660 Robert Tseng: default few, like, SaaS startups that we’ve kind of talked to or work with, and we want to just pitch them the same thing that we offered to Hitra. So, yeah, I think we are kind of, like, building that out already. I will say, for gaming startups, I mean, this is nice, and I think we could do it.
385 00:57:23.900 ⇒ 00:57:36.029 Robert Tseng: We just haven’t… we haven’t actually worked with them. Like, we… we had a couple gaming leads that didn’t actually close, so I would say probably not the highest priority for us to develop right now, just because it’s not really just, like, something we’re in right now.
386 00:57:36.210 ⇒ 00:57:42.660 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I think noted that this is very much just an adaptation of what we’re doing with Pitra. It’s just, like, a different stack.
387 00:57:42.860 ⇒ 00:57:54.110 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, I see your… your perspective as, like, you could build some custom stack and package it for various, types of companies. I…
388 00:57:54.910 ⇒ 00:58:04.439 Robert Tseng: I think that’s valid. I think it’s just that, you know, who’s gonna have the money and the urgency to really do it? I think the software companies tend to have it more.
389 00:58:04.510 ⇒ 00:58:08.490 Robert Tseng: like, for the gaming companies we’ve worked with, I’ve worked with a couple
390 00:58:08.560 ⇒ 00:58:20.580 Robert Tseng: companies that rate seed routes from A16Z, they wanted the amplitude or the mix panel, and we helped get… helped them set it up. This was maybe before, right? But, like, they didn’t actually… they’re not really…
391 00:58:20.580 ⇒ 00:58:37.220 Robert Tseng: they’re gonna build, like, a whole data stack. Like, their focus is on just, like, building new features for their game, or, like, kind of growing user base, or whatever. So, at that point, they don’t really need all this stuff. But for the AI SaaS companies, they do need the data, because, like, there’s so much data that’s kind of flowing into their
392 00:58:37.530 ⇒ 00:58:47.489 Robert Tseng: from the user base already, and, like, all the inputs from the queries or whatever, you know, all the stuff that we’re seeing on the default side, we’re gonna end up seeing on the Hedra as well.
393 00:58:47.720 ⇒ 00:58:59.679 Robert Tseng: Like, I think that their business actually needs the data stack earlier. Gaming startups do not necessarily need it. Like, I’ve not seen anyone at, like, at seed stage that’s like, yeah, I want this.
394 00:59:00.080 ⇒ 00:59:14.809 Awaish Kumar: Okay, I’ve worked with, like, one of the gaming companies before, and, like, we started pretty early with the data stuff, like, in development. When the game was still in development, like, we were doing A-B testing on multiple
395 00:59:14.940 ⇒ 00:59:15.910 Awaish Kumar: Oh…
396 00:59:16.230 ⇒ 00:59:26.270 Awaish Kumar: like, levels of a gameplay, where the players churn, and what is the best… like, different… every testing for different characters, and…
397 00:59:26.380 ⇒ 00:59:31.130 Awaish Kumar: When they, went into the market with these, like, play.
398 00:59:31.280 ⇒ 00:59:41.100 Awaish Kumar: I forget the name, like, when you have these taste plays, where, like, a few players will join in and play the game, and then we analyze, like…
399 00:59:41.300 ⇒ 00:59:44.840 Awaish Kumar: Where the people churn, and why they churn, and things like that.
400 00:59:45.390 ⇒ 00:59:47.880 Awaish Kumar: Improvement… improving their end development.
401 00:59:48.170 ⇒ 00:59:49.060 Awaish Kumar: Thanks.
402 00:59:51.420 ⇒ 00:59:52.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah,
403 00:59:52.960 ⇒ 01:00:04.880 Robert Tseng: Sure, I mean, I could see that. I… I mean, I would like an intro to someone, and I could talk to more people in the space, but, you know, I’ve talked to… I mean, we work with Echo Chess, like, I’ve worked with…
404 01:00:05.090 ⇒ 01:00:10.129 Robert Tseng: Yeah, some of these names I forget, some VR-like game…
405 01:00:10.140 ⇒ 01:00:14.399 Robert Tseng: gaming company, Peep, before, this was, like, last year.
406 01:00:14.410 ⇒ 01:00:28.600 Robert Tseng: yeah, I mean, budgets are just lower there, I think, is just kind of my take. Unless you’re, like, a gaming star… yeah, gaming startup in development, like, I don’t know how they were able to pay for it. Obviously, buying in-house is…
407 01:00:28.600 ⇒ 01:00:38.349 Robert Tseng: in-house talent is cheaper than working with consultancies, but… I mean, I’m open to being proven wrong, but, like, I would like to hear an example of, like, a gaming company
408 01:00:38.370 ⇒ 01:00:48.759 Robert Tseng: that’s in development, that hasn’t released yet, has no paying users, that’s… that’s investing in building a data stack with a consultancy. Like, I… I don’t know anybody that fits that, so…
409 01:00:48.760 ⇒ 01:00:49.140 Awaish Kumar: Awesome.
410 01:00:49.570 ⇒ 01:00:54.760 Robert Tseng: I mean, you can prove me wrong, I just, like, I do think that there is, like, it’s a different…
411 01:00:55.870 ⇒ 01:01:11.729 Robert Tseng: you know, your crew is probably very technical, you guys could set it all up yourself, you were, like, kind of, like, double-dipping as data engineer and also kind of contributing to the game. Yeah, like, maybe, like, a post hoc setup and, like, doing all the technical, like, kind of setup yourself is…
412 01:01:11.790 ⇒ 01:01:21.429 Robert Tseng: easier to do, but, like, may not actually be, like, our strength, because ultimately, like, our analytics work is
413 01:01:21.590 ⇒ 01:01:34.849 Robert Tseng: helping marketers, like, decide how to spend their money, how to target their… to their customers, or it’s helping operators know how to make better decisions. Like, I don’t really know what decision we’re impacting on the game… on the game side, right?
414 01:01:36.930 ⇒ 01:01:38.979 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
415 01:01:39.500 ⇒ 01:01:51.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I do want to keep talking to them. We… I sent a lead list from other A16Z startups to, like, our go-to-market team. Like, I do want them to target them.
416 01:01:51.610 ⇒ 01:01:54.199 Robert Tseng: I just don’t know if the data stack is the best
417 01:01:54.960 ⇒ 01:02:08.640 Robert Tseng: offer, like, we can… we can work towards it. You know, when we have some more momentum there, like, I can loop you into that, and we can pitch them. Like, I do… I do want to pitch them. Like, I do think this is a good category. We’re just not… we just haven’t really, closed them yet.
418 01:02:09.100 ⇒ 01:02:16.579 Robert Tseng: Okay. Anyway, we could kind of deliberate on, like, all of these, but, yeah, kind of just take that, take note of this.
419 01:02:16.870 ⇒ 01:02:22.630 Robert Tseng: you know, you can go reference this Figma yourself, but, you know, I’m… I’m just…
420 01:02:22.920 ⇒ 01:02:44.510 Robert Tseng: you know, I’m not waiting until 2 weeks from now to keep pushing on this, like, I kind of think about this whenever I have time, so I’ll kind of run with what we already have, but if you guys want to be able to contribute and really help me kind of, like, build out the offers here, I think this is kind of… I’d be looking to match your solution to a problem that we’ve identified as actually a problem.
421 01:02:44.510 ⇒ 01:02:56.239 Robert Tseng: Obviously, there are a million problems that we could solve, but it’s got to be the problem that our ICP is thinking about, so I will push back on whatever you suggest, trying to be from the perspective of our buyer.
422 01:02:56.390 ⇒ 01:02:57.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
423 01:02:57.740 ⇒ 01:02:58.400 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
424 01:02:58.540 ⇒ 01:03:04.200 Henry Zhao: If we have stuff to contribute, how should we, like, contribute slash make you aware that we contributed somewhere so you can look at it?
425 01:03:04.650 ⇒ 01:03:11.179 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think just the sales and go-to-market strategy channel is probably the best place to do it. You can just tag me there.
426 01:03:11.400 ⇒ 01:03:16.140 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then we have these check-ins kind of regularly now. I don’t always want to be running, like, a
427 01:03:16.450 ⇒ 01:03:19.149 Robert Tseng: workshop like this, so.
428 01:03:19.150 ⇒ 01:03:19.500 Henry Zhao: I think they’.
429 01:03:19.580 ⇒ 01:03:23.410 Robert Tseng: We will get to a point where we will be able to just come in with pitches ready.
430 01:03:25.350 ⇒ 01:03:26.030 Henry Zhao: Okay.
431 01:03:27.590 ⇒ 01:03:35.230 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Well, I have a hard stop, I gotta jump to a black call, need to figure out what I actually have to say to Insomnia now.
432 01:03:35.590 ⇒ 01:03:38.600 Robert Tseng: So, I’ll talk to you guys later. Okay. Alright, thanks everyone.
433 01:03:38.600 ⇒ 01:03:39.380 Hannah Wang: Bye.