Meeting Title: Recruiting and Client Management Sync Date: 2025-10-29 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:00:41.220 ⇒ 00:00:42.370 Robert Tseng: Hello? Hey.
2 00:00:42.750 ⇒ 00:00:43.680 Uttam Kumaran: Hello.
3 00:00:43.950 ⇒ 00:00:48.240 Robert Tseng: I need a coffee, dude. You, you stayed up pretty late.
4 00:00:49.340 ⇒ 00:00:51.619 Uttam Kumaran: I took a nap at, like, 5.
5 00:00:51.920 ⇒ 00:00:56.420 Uttam Kumaran: And then I had a late coffee, and then, yeah, I just needed to get, like.
6 00:00:57.440 ⇒ 00:01:07.029 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I just… I needed to get everybody set up on, like, where they can do their analysis, and I want people to do it in, like, this type of structured environment, and for me, it’s helpful.
7 00:01:07.280 ⇒ 00:01:09.449 Uttam Kumaran: And then,
8 00:01:10.510 ⇒ 00:01:23.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we… we… I just wanted to… this is the first week where I feel like we’re actually… we have data on, like, clockify, we have our operating stuff, and, like, I spent, kind of, 2 hours yesterday with Amber and Mustafa just, like, looking over everything, so…
9 00:01:23.900 ⇒ 00:01:39.389 Uttam Kumaran: It was getting better, like, I actually feel like we’re… the fact that we invested time is… the ROI is, like, pretty good. Like, we’re able to… this month, especially, I was able to start the month by giving people a clear understanding of, like, where they are. Of course, there’s changes, but,
10 00:01:39.670 ⇒ 00:01:42.170 Uttam Kumaran: This next month, we’re gonna be able to do the same.
11 00:01:42.570 ⇒ 00:01:42.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
12 00:01:42.910 ⇒ 00:01:54.010 Uttam Kumaran: I was… I think this month we actually made, like, for… one, we have some great hourly clients that we need to maximize further, like Hype, like, default,
13 00:01:54.360 ⇒ 00:02:02.110 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve kept… we’ve actually maintained… this month is the first month where I feel like we’re gonna come out and have, like, probably the best margin month.
14 00:02:02.330 ⇒ 00:02:08.150 Uttam Kumaran: I purely did that by just keeping, like, downward pressure, but, like, not to a degree that was, like.
15 00:02:09.100 ⇒ 00:02:12.909 Uttam Kumaran: just fucking stop working is more and more nuanced, which is great.
16 00:02:12.910 ⇒ 00:02:13.590 Robert Tseng: Sure.
17 00:02:14.900 ⇒ 00:02:33.600 Uttam Kumaran: And so, yeah, that’s… that’s basically also, like, how I’m thinking about planning for the next two months. Maybe let’s start with, let’s start with the recruiting stuff, first. So I saw your message. Yeah, I guess to start with, Lauren, there’s… there’s just a couple things, dude, like, nobody in the company right now can help me with.
18 00:02:33.620 ⇒ 00:02:52.510 Uttam Kumaran: like, that I have to… Leo Luna, like, for example, I was like, I just… can someone make me, like, a little bit of a normalized, like, leveling guide with… with rates that we can start to use versus just, like, throwing out rates? Yeah. Nobody can… like, Leo Luna, they fucked that up, Raquel can’t do that, so…
19 00:02:52.790 ⇒ 00:02:58.089 Uttam Kumaran: that’s, like, one thing I would need… I kind of just need some help with. So I do have 5 to 10 hours of, like.
20 00:02:58.350 ⇒ 00:03:00.679 Uttam Kumaran: Random shit like that, that is…
21 00:03:01.310 ⇒ 00:03:07.050 Uttam Kumaran: not active, like, client work, so I would… I don’t see Lore… I don’t see Lauren on, like, active client stuff.
22 00:03:07.050 ⇒ 00:03:07.719 Robert Tseng: I see.
23 00:03:08.350 ⇒ 00:03:09.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
24 00:03:10.540 ⇒ 00:03:13.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
25 00:03:18.950 ⇒ 00:03:26.109 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, if he’s just putting, like, admin docs, like, sure, I guess? Like, I mean, I don’t know, I don’t really have an opinion on that.
26 00:03:26.380 ⇒ 00:03:36.369 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, if you don’t have an opinion, then that’s fine. I just, like, yeah, it’s just admin-related shit, like, and it’s cheaper than Leo Luna, and, like, Rico’s at his, like.
27 00:03:36.490 ⇒ 00:03:43.699 Uttam Kumaran: capability level, like, I can’t have them do a little, even slightly more strategic stuff. There’s nowhere for me to go for some of these things, so…
28 00:03:43.730 ⇒ 00:03:44.770 Robert Tseng: Sure.
29 00:03:45.130 ⇒ 00:03:48.440 Uttam Kumaran: And then, on the Kayla, Joe.
30 00:03:48.720 ⇒ 00:03:55.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I want you to talk to Joe, like, I’m… this is where, like, I just still am so nervous by people that are, like.
31 00:03:57.640 ⇒ 00:04:14.759 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I mean, look, I think the history of our company, we’ve taken bets on junior people. Like, we just have to maybe keep doing that and sort of live with the… try to hedge a little bit. I would say he has background in sort of, like… he’s really young, he has a background in sort of this new, like, go-to-market engineering world.
32 00:04:14.860 ⇒ 00:04:18.920 Uttam Kumaran: I think… Definitely not, like, super experienced, but…
33 00:04:19.250 ⇒ 00:04:24.050 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think is a good foil for, like, an Amber, where he comes more from, like.
34 00:04:24.430 ⇒ 00:04:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: go-to-market side, so…
35 00:04:28.530 ⇒ 00:04:37.619 Uttam Kumaran: I just want to make sure that we’re aware that, like, there’s… it could not work out, and we’re just, like… I’m just trying not to… just be okay with that if it doesn’t.
36 00:04:38.140 ⇒ 00:04:51.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no, I don’t expect… which, I mean, yeah, I don’t have high expectations there, so… Yeah. Well, yeah, I do want to talk to him. Yeah, and then, like I mentioned, Sezim, I think, wants… is interested, so I want to.
37 00:04:51.240 ⇒ 00:04:51.819 Uttam Kumaran: Please, yeah.
38 00:04:51.820 ⇒ 00:04:53.130 Robert Tseng: We want to… okay, great.
39 00:04:53.130 ⇒ 00:05:10.249 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and then just CC Rico on that, so that… because he’ll just make sure, yeah, it all gets organized. And then, yeah, with Joe, I think he just wants to be… he knows, like, he wants to just be in our world and doing kind of the stuff that we’re doing. I feel like he could be good. And then I’m talking to Gabe
40 00:05:10.640 ⇒ 00:05:13.940 Uttam Kumaran: sometime this… I don’t know when, sometime this week, too, so…
41 00:05:13.940 ⇒ 00:05:15.780 Robert Tseng: You’re talking to him in 20 minutes, yeah.
42 00:05:15.780 ⇒ 00:05:21.929 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay, yeah, then yeah, I’m talking to him 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah.
43 00:05:23.480 ⇒ 00:05:26.250 Uttam Kumaran: So cool, I’ll close that out and find out.
44 00:05:26.250 ⇒ 00:05:26.650 Robert Tseng: Sure.
45 00:05:26.650 ⇒ 00:05:31.069 Uttam Kumaran: And then Kayla, yeah, like, look, I… If, if, like…
46 00:05:31.380 ⇒ 00:05:37.140 Uttam Kumaran: if we had, like, a ton of budget and a ton of opportunity, then I would be okay with it, but…
47 00:05:37.570 ⇒ 00:05:39.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s just not clear, and so…
48 00:05:40.870 ⇒ 00:05:51.649 Uttam Kumaran: again, like, the kind of three things that are top of mind for me is, one, like, getting us the margin on clients, and preventing churn, and getting us out. Kind of in, like.
49 00:05:52.500 ⇒ 00:05:53.700 Uttam Kumaran: bad order.
50 00:05:53.810 ⇒ 00:05:59.240 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And I don’t know how, like, spending full-time on her, like, I don’t think…
51 00:06:00.430 ⇒ 00:06:03.699 Uttam Kumaran: Directly affects either of those immediately, so…
52 00:06:04.320 ⇒ 00:06:08.180 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… I would rather not take a risk on that until the next year.
53 00:06:09.260 ⇒ 00:06:10.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sure, I think that’s fair.
54 00:06:11.760 ⇒ 00:06:22.469 Uttam Kumaran: to give you a sense, additionally, on what I’m trying to do, one is, like, I’m sort of gonna exhaust all of the remaining decent-looking analysts
55 00:06:22.630 ⇒ 00:06:36.890 Uttam Kumaran: and data people on Upwork. I did a big… oh yeah, that’s also what I worked on last night, so I just did a bunch of stuff on recruiting. So, I’m gonna talk to anyone that looked half-decent. If I can’t find anyone, I think our last resort is that we just need to start kind of, like, coaching.
56 00:06:37.080 ⇒ 00:06:46.749 Uttam Kumaran: And so what I’m gonna start to do is build recruiting lists from the other consultancies and start to DM people and find that.
57 00:06:46.940 ⇒ 00:06:48.899 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’re sort of exhausted.
58 00:06:49.060 ⇒ 00:06:51.680 Uttam Kumaran: Like, natural networks at this point.
59 00:06:51.920 ⇒ 00:06:52.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
60 00:06:53.580 ⇒ 00:06:56.750 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we’re so… I still ask people all the time, but, like.
61 00:06:57.470 ⇒ 00:07:06.320 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I wanted to wait to just… I just don’t… I don’t know, is that, like… it’s not, like, illegal, right? To, like, go after people at companies, like, pretty direct like that? Just…
62 00:07:06.320 ⇒ 00:07:09.260 Robert Tseng: No, I don’t think so. Okay, okay. Yeah, that’s what happens, yeah.
63 00:07:09.570 ⇒ 00:07:12.520 Uttam Kumaran: I just want to make sure, like, alright, alright, cool.
64 00:07:13.350 ⇒ 00:07:14.090 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
65 00:07:15.690 ⇒ 00:07:25.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I’m gonna lead with your… does your… does your job suck? Do you hate working in your shitty consultancy? That’s my.
66 00:07:25.720 ⇒ 00:07:29.559 Robert Tseng: My subject header. Okay, cool. So…
67 00:07:30.090 ⇒ 00:07:34.509 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s, that’s that.
68 00:07:35.070 ⇒ 00:07:38.240 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s talk about the Eden allocation,
69 00:07:38.400 ⇒ 00:07:46.320 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, I mean, I agree with you in that, like, I don’t… like, the allocations are honestly, like, a very liberal representation.
70 00:07:47.020 ⇒ 00:07:55.759 Uttam Kumaran: So they’re not meant to be accurate, but they’re not also meant to underestimate. Like, if anything, I’m happy that we over-allocate.
71 00:07:55.870 ⇒ 00:07:59.669 Uttam Kumaran: and people go below. What I don’t want to happen is that
72 00:07:59.910 ⇒ 00:08:06.979 Uttam Kumaran: like, I put you… I can’t put you, like, 1 hour on Eden, and then some weeks it’s 3, some weeks… like, I’d rather just say it’s a flat 5.
73 00:08:06.980 ⇒ 00:08:07.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sure.
74 00:08:07.660 ⇒ 00:08:14.250 Uttam Kumaran: And we under-hit it, right? So that’s all that is. So yes, I agree that having all three of us there
75 00:08:15.000 ⇒ 00:08:20.340 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think it’s accurate. I am talking about Eden every day, maybe roughly 30 minutes.
76 00:08:20.500 ⇒ 00:08:22.440 Uttam Kumaran: So, in some weeks it may go up.
77 00:08:22.600 ⇒ 00:08:24.269 Uttam Kumaran: again, I kind of would like…
78 00:08:24.480 ⇒ 00:08:27.339 Uttam Kumaran: If you can move to spending, like.
79 00:08:27.870 ⇒ 00:08:37.299 Uttam Kumaran: similarly, like, an hour or two a week on it, and then me, and then Zoran and Amber kind of lead from coordination standpoint, I’ll lead from stand-up, then I think it’s fine.
80 00:08:39.610 ⇒ 00:08:46.389 Uttam Kumaran: But… Yeah, like, so that’s roughly the allocation, and yeah, I’m, like, interested to see, like, how you wanna…
81 00:08:46.680 ⇒ 00:08:49.360 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I would like us to spend some time this week
82 00:08:49.830 ⇒ 00:08:59.559 Uttam Kumaran: thinking opportunistically… opportunistically about the next 2 months for Eden, and how to really bust out some stuff that’s… that’s really transformative.
83 00:08:59.930 ⇒ 00:09:04.600 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s, like, kind of, like, what I’m coming from, from my standpoint.
84 00:09:05.830 ⇒ 00:09:10.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I was wanting to get to that today, but it’s not gonna happen. Probably more towards the end of the week.
85 00:09:11.280 ⇒ 00:09:20.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, we can talk about it later today, too. Like, if you want… if you’re… I don’t know what your schedule is today, but if we do grooming, I can spend some time doing that. Like, that’s what I wanted to talk to, because…
86 00:09:20.900 ⇒ 00:09:24.799 Uttam Kumaran: We’re in a good spot, like, ticket-wise, for, like, just this random shit.
87 00:09:28.240 ⇒ 00:09:30.949 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, I mean, like, like I said, I feel like I…
88 00:09:31.100 ⇒ 00:09:35.970 Robert Tseng: Eden’s not really top of mind for me today. Like, I just… I don’t know if I’ll… I don’t know if I’ll get to it today.
89 00:09:36.130 ⇒ 00:09:37.230 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
90 00:09:37.230 ⇒ 00:09:37.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
91 00:09:39.600 ⇒ 00:09:47.730 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, on the… on the… this is, like, also, like, on the DEA side for Eden, like, I just don’t know what’s on the roadmap.
92 00:09:47.870 ⇒ 00:09:48.960 Uttam Kumaran: So…
93 00:09:49.110 ⇒ 00:09:54.630 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t know, like, if you still need both of them, or if you wanted me to make an indication to, like.
94 00:09:55.350 ⇒ 00:10:01.920 Uttam Kumaran: move one person out. I think there needs to be redundancy, given how chaotic This is…
95 00:10:02.490 ⇒ 00:10:05.889 Uttam Kumaran: Like, at least on paper, meaning, like.
96 00:10:07.120 ⇒ 00:10:13.889 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I’m fine with how we planned it out. I think it would work for the… I mean, I think it should work for the next month.
97 00:10:13.890 ⇒ 00:10:14.270 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
98 00:10:14.270 ⇒ 00:10:21.349 Robert Tseng: You know, if we’ve isolated Zora’s time, he’s basically 15 hours a week on his marketing stuff.
99 00:10:21.490 ⇒ 00:10:40.529 Robert Tseng: And, you know, that’ll… you know, I am curious, like, how this restructuring will actually shake out. Like, ideally, it just becomes a contained environment where he can run up his hours to 15, and, like, that won’t eat into the rest of the team’s time. Then we have… we have projects on the roadmap to go after, so I think.
100 00:10:40.530 ⇒ 00:10:45.539 Uttam Kumaran: how would you like me, like, how can I work best with Zoran? Like, would you like…
101 00:10:45.750 ⇒ 00:10:50.290 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I would rather just talk, like, I want to just help him become the best, like.
102 00:10:51.380 ⇒ 00:10:55.140 Uttam Kumaran: What I’m doing.
103 00:10:55.840 ⇒ 00:10:57.709 Robert Tseng: Sorry, your mic is, like, cutting out.
104 00:10:58.300 ⇒ 00:11:01.830 Uttam Kumaran: I said I want him to start doing what I’m doing for Eden, basically.
105 00:11:02.620 ⇒ 00:11:04.119 Uttam Kumaran: For just his work stream.
106 00:11:04.340 ⇒ 00:11:05.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
107 00:11:06.080 ⇒ 00:11:13.059 Robert Tseng: Well, we… we hopped on a call with them. It’s basically gonna be Cutter, Ryan, and…
108 00:11:13.180 ⇒ 00:11:17.890 Robert Tseng: and Zora. Like, I’m trying to keep their… they’ll be talking regularly.
109 00:11:18.660 ⇒ 00:11:21.009 Uttam Kumaran: They… they have their own, like.
110 00:11:21.650 ⇒ 00:11:27.640 Robert Tseng: OKRs or whatever, I told them to assign project objectives, like, they run everything on Monday, it’s fine.
111 00:11:27.800 ⇒ 00:11:37.720 Robert Tseng: once that comes in, then Zoran will bring… Zoran will bring those objectives to us, and you can… he can work with you to, like, kind of break those out into projects. So I’m kind of…
112 00:11:37.720 ⇒ 00:11:38.140 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
113 00:11:38.140 ⇒ 00:11:47.089 Robert Tseng: I made clear that, yeah, like, the communication between Zoran and Ryan, like, that… I’m not gonna be a part of that. But they need to be able to pass their priorities to him.
114 00:11:47.350 ⇒ 00:12:00.820 Robert Tseng: And then he needs to be able to communicate that to our team, so we ticketed it out. He still runs with our stand-ups. We’re not doing a new set of stand-ups. I don’t want him to do… to do two types of stand-ups with them, or whatever. So, I think they were… they were fine with that arrangement.
115 00:12:01.050 ⇒ 00:12:03.780 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great. Yeah, so then what I’m basically gonna do is I’m gonna treat…
116 00:12:03.960 ⇒ 00:12:07.390 Uttam Kumaran: him, like you, for marketing, I need it.
117 00:12:07.660 ⇒ 00:12:13.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yep. So, that’s kind of… so I’ll meet with him on Mondays to sort of plan shit out, and then…
118 00:12:13.340 ⇒ 00:12:24.019 Uttam Kumaran: if it’s just him, or if he needs more support, whatever, but ideally, like, I still want to own delivering, like, what are the three things we’re getting, like, what is the overarching theme, and then get that to you, so you can…
119 00:12:24.250 ⇒ 00:12:26.630 Uttam Kumaran: articulate to ELT. Okay, great.
120 00:12:27.080 ⇒ 00:12:31.660 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s good.
121 00:12:31.820 ⇒ 00:12:39.849 Uttam Kumaran: in terms of, like, the two upcoming clients, like, for Honey Stinger and for the CES, I’m gonna take Sam with me on CES.
122 00:12:39.850 ⇒ 00:12:40.580 Robert Tseng: Okay.
123 00:12:40.580 ⇒ 00:12:43.170 Uttam Kumaran: WASH is fully allocated?
124 00:12:43.300 ⇒ 00:12:43.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
125 00:12:44.940 ⇒ 00:12:57.850 Uttam Kumaran: And so I… and I wanna… I, like, I… I think Sam has the capability… Sam is, like, a little bit of a, like, nervous Nancy on, like, new stuff, but it’s clear he could do everything, and it’s gonna be more architecture heavy.
126 00:12:58.570 ⇒ 00:12:59.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
127 00:12:59.030 ⇒ 00:13:05.270 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re a slow company, so it’s a lot of, like, hopping on meetings, saying hello, blah blah blah, so…
128 00:13:05.270 ⇒ 00:13:06.030 Robert Tseng: Great.
129 00:13:06.030 ⇒ 00:13:09.290 Uttam Kumaran: I… I… if I can’t start ma- I kind of want him to…
130 00:13:09.830 ⇒ 00:13:24.480 Uttam Kumaran: to be that counterpart. And he’s… of course, he’s really aware of, like, their… what they’re… what they do and the stuff, so I’ll take him with me there when that closes. I’m not sure yet, like… ideally, I think we’ll end up with some work, and so I’ll need a third…
131 00:13:24.980 ⇒ 00:13:28.330 Uttam Kumaran: Executor, like, whoever the analyst is.
132 00:13:28.510 ⇒ 00:13:33.449 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know at what… I don’t know at what point I’ll need that. If I do need that, then I’ll…
133 00:13:33.980 ⇒ 00:13:36.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m not… I’m just not sure what the scope is yet.
134 00:13:36.800 ⇒ 00:13:37.530 Robert Tseng: Okay.
135 00:13:41.510 ⇒ 00:13:46.279 Robert Tseng: with Honey Singer, I mean, I think we should bring Henry.
136 00:13:46.510 ⇒ 00:13:47.220 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
137 00:13:47.410 ⇒ 00:13:48.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
138 00:13:48.670 ⇒ 00:13:52.510 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, obviously, I’m gonna have to be close to that client, so…
139 00:13:53.180 ⇒ 00:14:11.969 Robert Tseng: I mean, once they start, I’m… I’m gonna be… like, I’m gonna have to… well, I mean, right now, eat insomnia is better. Hopefully, by that point, I’m not really, like, day-to-day in reading anymore, so, like, I’m trying to, you know… if we start next week or two weeks from now, like, that’d be ideal. But I think it should be next week, is what we’re trying to aim for.
140 00:14:11.970 ⇒ 00:14:15.489 Uttam Kumaran: I think we should start next week. It’s gonna be, like, a week of access and stuff like that.
141 00:14:15.490 ⇒ 00:14:16.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
142 00:14:16.230 ⇒ 00:14:27.160 Uttam Kumaran: I… I… this is what, like, my whole nervousness is just, like, dude, the biggest thing we can’t lose is, like, clients, and we just risk… I just can’t risk that.
143 00:14:27.670 ⇒ 00:14:34.649 Uttam Kumaran: Like, margin is, like, we can save the margin conversation, but the biggest thing is we just can’t lose clients, especially these ones that are so easy.
144 00:14:34.990 ⇒ 00:14:42.760 Uttam Kumaran: And so, if anything on Honey Stinger, I think we should think a little bit about how we do it if you’re gonna involve Henry, like…
145 00:14:42.890 ⇒ 00:14:46.560 Uttam Kumaran: what the process is gonna be. Like, maybe it still is, like.
146 00:14:47.160 ⇒ 00:14:50.259 Uttam Kumaran: You and me get everything organized, and then bring him in.
147 00:14:50.450 ⇒ 00:14:59.650 Uttam Kumaran: But, like… like, Amber’s starting to do pretty well, too. Like, Casey and Mustafa both have capacity.
148 00:15:00.150 ⇒ 00:15:04.709 Uttam Kumaran: If… it depends on, like, what the work is, but if it’s, like, purely, like, analysis work, like.
149 00:15:04.960 ⇒ 00:15:06.710 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.
150 00:15:07.060 ⇒ 00:15:15.810 Robert Tseng: It’s never purely analysis until… I mean, like, Amber can come in and just knock out tickets because, like, we generally know what’s going on in there now, so…
151 00:15:15.810 ⇒ 00:15:16.380 Uttam Kumaran: F.
152 00:15:16.590 ⇒ 00:15:26.970 Robert Tseng: Same with those other guys, those guys… yeah, so, like, he… there’s no, like… none of them will be effective in the first, like, month in Huntington, in my opinion. So,
153 00:15:27.250 ⇒ 00:15:30.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and… so… but…
154 00:15:31.450 ⇒ 00:15:38.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah, the first week, first two weeks, just to kind of keep things go… get things going, should probably be me… me and you.
155 00:15:38.460 ⇒ 00:15:39.389 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, okay.
156 00:15:39.390 ⇒ 00:15:44.860 Robert Tseng: Ideally, once, like, the priorities are kind of let, we’ve already laid out the roadmap, and it’s like, okay, like.
157 00:15:44.940 ⇒ 00:15:53.290 Robert Tseng: we’re going… we’re gonna figure out, like, Am… I mean, Amazon and, like, Klaviyo. Those are the two tools. And, like.
158 00:15:53.370 ⇒ 00:16:05.459 Robert Tseng: Then, if those are very clear, then I can… then Henry can go in and kind of fill in all… can go in and then… and figure it out from there, I think. But for him to be able to go and
159 00:16:05.890 ⇒ 00:16:16.119 Robert Tseng: ask the questions to be able to build out the roadmap, like, I guess he can’t do that. That’s, he hasn’t done that on default, and he didn’t do that on README, like.
160 00:16:16.250 ⇒ 00:16:20.059 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that that’s probably what he can’t do.
161 00:16:20.310 ⇒ 00:16:20.910 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
162 00:16:21.080 ⇒ 00:16:21.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
163 00:16:22.500 ⇒ 00:16:23.710 Robert Tseng: That’s the way I see it.
164 00:16:24.450 ⇒ 00:16:25.580 Uttam Kumaran: So, do you see, like.
165 00:16:25.580 ⇒ 00:16:33.870 Robert Tseng: So, he can even help on insomnia now. Like, I feel like insomnia’s in a good enough place where, like, I should be able to step out of insomnia.
166 00:16:34.040 ⇒ 00:16:44.289 Robert Tseng: the objectives are clear enough. Like, we’re just trying to optimize, like, owned market, the own channels there, so he could even.
167 00:16:44.290 ⇒ 00:16:51.639 Uttam Kumaran: No, I think we’re close there, but the problem with insomnia is there’s no money. Like, we only have, like… we don’t have that many hours.
168 00:16:52.460 ⇒ 00:16:53.630 Uttam Kumaran: To work with.
169 00:16:54.500 ⇒ 00:16:54.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
170 00:16:54.860 ⇒ 00:17:05.160 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that’s the thing, like, with… if Aber’s come out and knocked out a bunch of stuff, Demulade’s gonna start doing some basic modeling enablement, like, we don’t have more time.
171 00:17:05.349 ⇒ 00:17:10.509 Robert Tseng: That’s why I don’t think it’s… it’s not really an engineering client for us, like,
172 00:17:10.660 ⇒ 00:17:16.169 Robert Tseng: Yeah, at least not in its current state. What they need is the analysis. They need to answer the questions.
173 00:17:16.390 ⇒ 00:17:20.499 Robert Tseng: I would rather just do what we need to do to…
174 00:17:20.670 ⇒ 00:17:25.040 Robert Tseng: Sure, like, I know, like, the upkeep for the existing pipeline.
175 00:17:25.040 ⇒ 00:17:26.270 Uttam Kumaran: I hear you.
176 00:17:26.270 ⇒ 00:17:26.880 Robert Tseng: Learning, too.
177 00:17:26.880 ⇒ 00:17:27.339 Uttam Kumaran: We should do.
178 00:17:27.349 ⇒ 00:17:28.149 Robert Tseng: Like, whatever it takes.
179 00:17:28.150 ⇒ 00:17:30.219 Uttam Kumaran: 20% is, to just keep it alive.
180 00:17:30.220 ⇒ 00:17:31.100 Robert Tseng: Yes.
181 00:17:31.100 ⇒ 00:17:31.820 Uttam Kumaran: For example, like.
182 00:17:31.820 ⇒ 00:17:33.570 Robert Tseng: I suggest the analysis. That’s it.
183 00:17:33.570 ⇒ 00:17:38.730 Uttam Kumaran: spent, like, 2 days just because she couldn’t run basic queries, and they were taking too long. Like, we need some modeling.
184 00:17:38.750 ⇒ 00:17:39.740 Robert Tseng: But I agree with you.
185 00:17:39.740 ⇒ 00:17:45.070 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll just nix it at the… as soon as it’s basic. Yeah. And then… okay, cool.
186 00:17:45.070 ⇒ 00:17:56.719 Robert Tseng: the future, the version 3 or whatever is not something we’ll get to in this current contract, yeah. But we should tell them, like, this is how it should be, and I, like, I want to keep communicating that. Yeah.
187 00:17:56.720 ⇒ 00:17:57.330 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
188 00:17:57.620 ⇒ 00:17:58.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean…
189 00:17:59.100 ⇒ 00:18:09.739 Robert Tseng: Originally, I was hoping at this point, end of October, I would ask them for the upsell. I don’t think we got there, so I don’t really think we can ask for another month, at least.
190 00:18:09.760 ⇒ 00:18:20.300 Robert Tseng: And, you know, by end of November, at that point, they may just, like, be like, whatever, just keep your contract till end of December, and we’ll talk about it again. So, that’s kind of why I think things have shifted on Insomnia.
191 00:18:20.870 ⇒ 00:18:21.430 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
192 00:18:21.650 ⇒ 00:18:39.740 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, we’re not really trying to grow a bunch with them right now, we’re just trying to be able to get to a place where we can answer their questions and at least keep a backlog, kind of like what we did before with Stella. Like, it took a couple months before we really were able to be like.
193 00:18:39.740 ⇒ 00:18:44.849 Robert Tseng: all right, there’s… you need the data warehouse, this is the… you need it now. And then…
194 00:18:45.010 ⇒ 00:18:48.189 Robert Tseng: No, I will say, I think we’ve gotten to, like.
195 00:18:48.390 ⇒ 00:18:59.250 Uttam Kumaran: I think the rhythm on Insomnia is… is now really, really good. Like, I think… I think I’m… what I’m trying to do is just, like, give you as much ammunition to go in with.
196 00:18:59.480 ⇒ 00:19:03.559 Uttam Kumaran: To push the analysts to ship stuff fast and ask for feedback.
197 00:19:03.740 ⇒ 00:19:04.140 Robert Tseng: Yep.
198 00:19:04.140 ⇒ 00:19:21.550 Uttam Kumaran: And then for you to just keep getting wins week to week, like, I don’t think we can move much faster than this. I think the only thing is, probably after this week, if all the info is set up, then we can layer on one or two more questions, and ideally, you’re able to do, like, three to five analyses per week, and if you can run that at the clip.
199 00:19:22.120 ⇒ 00:19:27.240 Uttam Kumaran: for the rest of the year, then that’s… that’s… that’s great. Like, that… that’ll be more than we’ve done for any client, you know?
200 00:19:27.420 ⇒ 00:19:30.829 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t even think it needs to be that many. Honestly, I think, like.
201 00:19:31.170 ⇒ 00:19:33.129 Uttam Kumaran: Or whatever, like, whatever the equivalent you mean.
202 00:19:33.130 ⇒ 00:19:34.919 Robert Tseng: One or two of those…
203 00:19:35.240 ⇒ 00:19:42.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah, just, like, a weekly, like, analysis deck is… is good enough. Like, yeah, like, I think it’ll… it should… they should be…
204 00:19:42.740 ⇒ 00:19:46.509 Robert Tseng: Like, at the end of the day, it’s not, like, the number of analysis that we’re trying to put out.
205 00:19:46.510 ⇒ 00:19:49.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s a bad example, but more like…
206 00:19:49.350 ⇒ 00:19:54.940 Uttam Kumaran: Everything will be… it’ll be 90% focused on just answering questions, and… yeah.
207 00:19:56.410 ⇒ 00:19:56.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
208 00:19:56.930 ⇒ 00:19:57.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
209 00:19:59.910 ⇒ 00:20:05.370 Uttam Kumaran: I still think we are lacking, we’re lacking, sort of, a product.
210 00:20:05.850 ⇒ 00:20:07.490 Uttam Kumaran: A true product analyst.
211 00:20:07.840 ⇒ 00:20:08.340 Uttam Kumaran: Like.
212 00:20:08.340 ⇒ 00:20:10.700 Robert Tseng: Well, I guess what I’m seeing now is.
213 00:20:10.700 ⇒ 00:20:19.110 Uttam Kumaran: Because, dude, the stuff in README, bro, is, like, so basic, but you have to have worked in B2B software, or at least digital
214 00:20:19.400 ⇒ 00:20:20.390 Uttam Kumaran: funnel.
215 00:20:20.550 ⇒ 00:20:21.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
216 00:20:21.250 ⇒ 00:20:23.589 Uttam Kumaran: To get… to get that. What, like…
217 00:20:23.780 ⇒ 00:20:28.390 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I feel like… Someone, like… like…
218 00:20:28.740 ⇒ 00:20:40.149 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, it’s just like, you just need someone who’s just worked in basic data or go-to-market at a B2B software company, and none of our folks have done that, so, like…
219 00:20:40.150 ⇒ 00:20:47.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I was debriefing with Henry yesterday, he still doesn’t understand, like, what README’s product is, like.
220 00:20:47.510 ⇒ 00:20:48.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude.
221 00:20:48.150 ⇒ 00:20:49.170 Robert Tseng: L2, whatever.
222 00:20:49.170 ⇒ 00:20:57.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s like, what the fuck? I just don’t, like, oh, what do I… what can we do about that? Which is fine, which is where, like, okay, if, like, he’s not… he can’t understand B2B SaaS.
223 00:20:57.910 ⇒ 00:20:58.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
224 00:20:58.240 ⇒ 00:20:58.970 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I don’t know.
225 00:20:58.970 ⇒ 00:21:00.359 Robert Tseng: Not his thing, yeah.
226 00:21:00.360 ⇒ 00:21:02.410 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know what the distance is.
227 00:21:02.840 ⇒ 00:21:09.699 Uttam Kumaran: like, but dude, the stuff you’re doing in README, even in your own limited time, is so basic.
228 00:21:10.340 ⇒ 00:21:19.190 Uttam Kumaran: And, like… Yeah, and so I agree with you that maybe we need to spoon feed, But, like…
229 00:21:20.380 ⇒ 00:21:22.479 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t know, that’s so tough.
230 00:21:22.610 ⇒ 00:21:26.080 Uttam Kumaran: like, I guess my… more of my question is, where do you think he can…
231 00:21:27.180 ⇒ 00:21:28.530 Uttam Kumaran: Come in and crush it.
232 00:21:30.990 ⇒ 00:21:36.150 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of on the sporadic marketing integration work, or…
233 00:21:37.040 ⇒ 00:21:41.449 Robert Tseng: Well, I don’t even think marketing integration is his… is his best thing. I mean, he’s.
234 00:21:41.450 ⇒ 00:21:45.910 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’m just trying to match him to the work that he crushes, right?
235 00:21:46.060 ⇒ 00:21:55.040 Uttam Kumaran: And I’d like to find that. It’s clear that… I mean, it’s clear that something is going well on Eden, and I’ve been trying to find, like, okay, is that more, like.
236 00:21:55.340 ⇒ 00:22:10.860 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not a default thing, it’s not a README thing, so what else is it? Because we have to… we have to… some people I can push, like, I can get… I can get… like, as you mentioned, like, there’s, like, Casey and Mustafa can go do anything, but they’re so junior. So I’m just trying to find, like, where I can flex people.
237 00:22:11.230 ⇒ 00:22:13.850 Uttam Kumaran: And then if we still have a gap,
238 00:22:14.500 ⇒ 00:22:20.330 Uttam Kumaran: you know, like, let’s take Honeystinger, for example. You’re saying he would come in at the point where we have, like.
239 00:22:21.010 ⇒ 00:22:35.160 Robert Tseng: Well, I already kind of have a sense of what HoneyStar’s gonna be like. I think one of their bigger priorities is going to be, like, getting data out of Amazon and being able to basically match, like, customers across platforms.
240 00:22:35.160 ⇒ 00:22:36.250 Uttam Kumaran: what we did for Javi.
241 00:22:36.250 ⇒ 00:22:38.559 Robert Tseng: Basically what we did for Javi, right? Okay.
242 00:22:38.560 ⇒ 00:22:38.970 Uttam Kumaran: So, but that.
243 00:22:38.970 ⇒ 00:22:40.820 Robert Tseng: But see, I would say that’s, like.
244 00:22:40.840 ⇒ 00:22:42.819 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like junior DE work, dude.
245 00:22:44.380 ⇒ 00:22:48.050 Robert Tseng: That is the… Well, not really, like, nobody could do it except for bias.
246 00:22:48.930 ⇒ 00:22:58.059 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but… but… but also, nobody was a… like, that’s so junior data engineering work, and… okay, so there’s two pieces of that. There’s the getting the shit out somewhere.
247 00:22:58.310 ⇒ 00:23:01.390 Uttam Kumaran: And then there’s the… doing the matching.
248 00:23:01.800 ⇒ 00:23:08.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, nobody could do it instead of Pius, but that’s… I think that’s a skill issue. Like, could Awish and Demolade have done it? Yes.
249 00:23:11.170 ⇒ 00:23:12.550 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that is a data model.
250 00:23:12.550 ⇒ 00:23:24.339 Robert Tseng: guys are good at creating fields. Like, they just pull data out of systems, and then, like… I mean, Awish has kind of been a good thought partner on Eden, telling me, like, as we were building out some of the early marketing attribution models, like.
251 00:23:24.700 ⇒ 00:23:39.100 Robert Tseng: here are the three different types we need, we need one version for this, whatever, like, he can tell me, like, why he needs the different models, whereas Dave Milani doesn’t come up… he… I don’t think Dave Milani comes up with new fields. Like, he just… we have to tell him what we want, he’ll go in, he’ll pull it out.
252 00:23:39.100 ⇒ 00:23:40.999 Uttam Kumaran: He’s getting better. He’s getting better.
253 00:23:41.000 ⇒ 00:23:50.070 Robert Tseng: That’s what I’m saying, that’s what a G or DE is to me. Like, yeah, they can combine data between different systems, but you have to tell them exactly what you need out of it.
254 00:23:50.070 ⇒ 00:23:52.519 Uttam Kumaran: Henry, you don’t think you’d have to do that?
255 00:23:52.520 ⇒ 00:24:06.359 Robert Tseng: No, yeah, I think he goes to figure out what he needs out of them, and then he’s working with the DEs to basically get that data, or he’ll just run the queries himself. Like, I think that’s how he was able to push projects along and eat it. Like, I believe that he’s proficient enough in.
256 00:24:06.360 ⇒ 00:24:13.300 Uttam Kumaran: Well, no, no, he’s doing the Tableau work, he’s doing the sequel work, which is why I’m just, like, so surprised, but this is where, like, I think he just…
257 00:24:13.410 ⇒ 00:24:18.759 Uttam Kumaran: faked it too much. Like, I think he came to us and was like, I can do that shit and he couldn’t do it. Which, okay.
258 00:24:19.310 ⇒ 00:24:19.840 Uttam Kumaran: I like to.
259 00:24:19.840 ⇒ 00:24:26.689 Robert Tseng: Yeah, he kind of was just like, oh, I thought I’ll be able to figure out amplitude, but I guess amplitude’s not that intuitive, or whatever.
260 00:24:26.690 ⇒ 00:24:36.539 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s like, we don’t expect everybody to know everything, but I just really, like, I can’t have people come into our company and fake it, continue their fake it till you make it. You made it.
261 00:24:37.020 ⇒ 00:24:44.600 Uttam Kumaran: just tell me what you can do, you know? That’s where I think he had maybe this, like, survival instinct, where he’s like, I gotta just say yes to everything.
262 00:24:45.050 ⇒ 00:24:53.499 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Well, that’s why I’m saying, he thought he was full-time at this point, and he’s not, he’s hourly, so obviously he’s incentivized to just go and take on whatever at this point.
263 00:24:53.500 ⇒ 00:25:00.999 Uttam Kumaran: No, I don’t… I don’t… but I don’t mind that… I don’t mind that, because that… but, like, also… but… but saying you could do it…
264 00:25:01.480 ⇒ 00:25:03.550 Uttam Kumaran: And then not delivering anything?
265 00:25:03.660 ⇒ 00:25:07.400 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe 6 months ago, we would have blamed ourselves.
266 00:25:07.550 ⇒ 00:25:10.890 Uttam Kumaran: But now, where it’s like… yeah, it’s, like, so obvious.
267 00:25:11.250 ⇒ 00:25:23.970 Uttam Kumaran: So what I… I guess my feedback to him is, like, he… I don’t… I don’t even mind if he went on to read me and said, hey, I just don’t… not familiar with this, but if you walk me through it, okay, because I could have picked up the slack and then coached him. But taking it…
268 00:25:24.180 ⇒ 00:25:29.360 Uttam Kumaran: saying, I got it, I got it, I got it, and then dropping the ball, and then… I don’t care, at that point, you’re like.
269 00:25:29.650 ⇒ 00:25:32.180 Uttam Kumaran: I’m totally accountable, it’s all my fault, like.
270 00:25:32.710 ⇒ 00:25:33.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
271 00:25:33.400 ⇒ 00:25:36.520 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t miss… I don’t care about that. Like, we’re gonna lose a client, dude.
272 00:25:36.520 ⇒ 00:25:42.380 Robert Tseng: train people out of that. I mean, every analyst we’ve done that has come to us with that. No one’s ever honest with their skill set.
273 00:25:42.610 ⇒ 00:25:46.949 Robert Tseng: Right? I think, you know, in any job, you’re kind of trained to just, like, say yes.
274 00:25:46.950 ⇒ 00:25:49.790 Uttam Kumaran: What do you think do, like, should I just be, like…
275 00:25:49.950 ⇒ 00:25:53.809 Uttam Kumaran: Deadass, tell me if you’ve done this, I don’t know what to ask people.
276 00:25:53.810 ⇒ 00:26:00.000 Robert Tseng: Well, I don’t think he’ll… I don’t think he’ll repeat the same thing, or if he does, then that’s, you know, that’s.
277 00:26:00.000 ⇒ 00:26:03.310 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I agree, I mean, I… we… yeah, I agree.
278 00:26:03.310 ⇒ 00:26:09.140 Robert Tseng: Pius did that, you know, obviously Shreya did that, and never admitted that she did do it, but Pius was also like.
279 00:26:09.350 ⇒ 00:26:14.440 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah, well, shit, like, I can’t do it, I’m not just… I’m the swamp. But he did that, and he told us, like, 2 months later.
280 00:26:14.440 ⇒ 00:26:28.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, all these people completely joshed us. It’s like, and again, at some point, you don’t… do you blame their confidence, or their, like, their naivety, or honestly, maybe they’re used to situations where their bosses are fucking morons, and…
281 00:26:28.960 ⇒ 00:26:32.580 Uttam Kumaran: they can be, like, I got it, and then they take 6 months to figure it out, where I’m like.
282 00:26:32.950 ⇒ 00:26:33.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
283 00:26:33.290 ⇒ 00:26:34.200 Uttam Kumaran: No, you don’t got it.
284 00:26:34.200 ⇒ 00:26:35.940 Robert Tseng: But they’re… that’s what they’re used to.
285 00:26:36.050 ⇒ 00:26:54.689 Robert Tseng: it’s either they don’t figure it out, or, like, they just hope that they can deflect it, and someone else will kind of pick it up later on. Like, I think the whole call your shot, like, approach is not… you don’t… you don’t learn that in the… at least at most of the… at most… at most of these jobs. Unless you’re… you’re, like, the first data hire, which, like.
286 00:26:54.720 ⇒ 00:26:57.760 Robert Tseng: I feel like, you know, there were situations where
287 00:26:57.820 ⇒ 00:27:03.890 Robert Tseng: Yeah, when I was at Flow Space, like, literally, like, everything I said, like, was on me only, so, like, I had to, like, you know.
288 00:27:03.890 ⇒ 00:27:10.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but dude, you know what I did? I went and read every fucking blog post ever on how to fucking do this, and then…
289 00:27:10.360 ⇒ 00:27:14.079 Uttam Kumaran: We make mistakes, but you at least own it, and you try, and you.
290 00:27:14.080 ⇒ 00:27:14.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
291 00:27:14.810 ⇒ 00:27:16.339 Uttam Kumaran: You go for outcomes.
292 00:27:16.610 ⇒ 00:27:20.810 Uttam Kumaran: Even if the thing is duct tape in the background, you still come to the meeting with something.
293 00:27:20.810 ⇒ 00:27:21.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
294 00:27:21.510 ⇒ 00:27:25.519 Uttam Kumaran: So I guess what I’m trying to learn is, like, how I just, like.
295 00:27:25.890 ⇒ 00:27:28.010 Uttam Kumaran: what we could do better here, like…
296 00:27:28.600 ⇒ 00:27:36.180 Uttam Kumaran: Some people are… like, for example, Sam will tell me I don’t know how to do that. Like, he’s on the other side. Like, I think he underestimates his skill set.
297 00:27:36.260 ⇒ 00:27:38.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Which I… which we’re gonna find out.
298 00:27:38.990 ⇒ 00:27:44.550 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t know, like, at what point in our decision-making process should I… should we have, like.
299 00:27:46.150 ⇒ 00:27:51.650 Uttam Kumaran: been like, hey, can you really do this? Or, like… or I should build some type of skill map for people.
300 00:27:52.430 ⇒ 00:27:53.559 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.
301 00:27:54.600 ⇒ 00:28:09.839 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, just basic human psychology. People don’t have an accurate view of themselves. People are always underestimating or overestimating themselves, and so we can’t expect us to ask different questions of people that give us more honest answers. We just…
302 00:28:09.840 ⇒ 00:28:11.049 Uttam Kumaran: Your interest is to lower the
303 00:28:11.960 ⇒ 00:28:15.430 Uttam Kumaran: But your answer is to lower the floor, like, to just meet them at the ground.
304 00:28:16.070 ⇒ 00:28:25.540 Robert Tseng: No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying, like, I mean, yeah, we should be able to assess them, like, we need to be able to assess them more quickly, which we are already.
305 00:28:25.840 ⇒ 00:28:28.659 Robert Tseng: And then, like, we have to put them in position.
306 00:28:28.660 ⇒ 00:28:29.360 Uttam Kumaran: Insane environment.
307 00:28:29.360 ⇒ 00:28:32.420 Robert Tseng: They will… where they will… they will fail, they’ll be.
308 00:28:32.420 ⇒ 00:28:34.960 Uttam Kumaran: If they fail, there’s no blast radius, yeah.
309 00:28:34.960 ⇒ 00:28:35.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
310 00:28:36.390 ⇒ 00:28:40.099 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, for example, on README, we probably shouldn’t have intro’d him to the client.
311 00:28:40.100 ⇒ 00:28:40.870 Robert Tseng: Yes, that was…
312 00:28:40.870 ⇒ 00:28:41.449 Uttam Kumaran: I just had him do.
313 00:28:41.450 ⇒ 00:28:44.019 Robert Tseng: Too risky, yeah. But, like, yeah.
314 00:28:46.960 ⇒ 00:29:00.570 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I feel good about that then. So then, I kind of… moving forward, if we… if we are not a… if we’re not con… if we have… someone hasn’t come into the company and proven they can do a thing, like, Awash, I was… I’m totally fine living him into hype.
315 00:29:00.590 ⇒ 00:29:03.780 Robert Tseng: There’s probably no other person in the company that I would have been, like.
316 00:29:04.310 ⇒ 00:29:06.020 Uttam Kumaran: do this, you know? Yeah.
317 00:29:06.150 ⇒ 00:29:09.970 Uttam Kumaran: So, for Sam, for example, I’m probably not going to…
318 00:29:10.180 ⇒ 00:29:12.789 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we’ll see, like, I’ll probably start with.
319 00:29:12.790 ⇒ 00:29:13.590 Robert Tseng: Well, you’ll just have to…
320 00:29:13.590 ⇒ 00:29:14.000 Uttam Kumaran: it out.
321 00:29:14.000 ⇒ 00:29:31.149 Robert Tseng: to him on it. Like, I shouldn’t have backed off on README as soon as Henry came on. Like, I mean, that’s the same thing. Whenever people… whenever we give people a chance, and we step back without… I mean, hype is the only example where I’m literally not involved. Like, I…
322 00:29:31.150 ⇒ 00:29:32.670 Uttam Kumaran: I’m involved there, dude.
323 00:29:32.670 ⇒ 00:29:33.290 Robert Tseng: You’re involved there.
324 00:29:33.410 ⇒ 00:29:36.260 Uttam Kumaran: Sure. That’s a cheat, that’s the cheat.
325 00:29:36.910 ⇒ 00:29:42.830 Uttam Kumaran: Like, there’s no clients where we’re not, like, really clo- ABC… is what… but, dude, ABC…
326 00:29:42.830 ⇒ 00:29:44.109 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it took a while before you…
327 00:29:44.110 ⇒ 00:29:44.840 Uttam Kumaran: a long time.
328 00:29:44.840 ⇒ 00:29:48.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah, that’s just… I don’t know, that’s just how it is for us right now.
329 00:29:49.780 ⇒ 00:29:50.450 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
330 00:29:50.570 ⇒ 00:29:51.100 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
331 00:29:51.100 ⇒ 00:29:56.300 Robert Tseng: We don’t have, like, a true, like, head of client success or delivery or whatever, like…
332 00:29:56.600 ⇒ 00:30:08.409 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think that that person has to be, like, a consulting background, engagement manager at McKinsey or something, like, I just… otherwise, they’re… like, I don’t think people are really trained to… to…
333 00:30:08.880 ⇒ 00:30:11.539 Robert Tseng: To handle these types of ambiguous situations.
334 00:30:15.970 ⇒ 00:30:16.600 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
335 00:30:17.020 ⇒ 00:30:19.949 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’m gonna go talk to Gabe. Okay, I’ve learned something today.
336 00:30:20.110 ⇒ 00:30:22.900 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, this is good. Alright, good.
337 00:30:22.900 ⇒ 00:30:23.810 Robert Tseng: Alright, talk to you later.
338 00:30:23.810 ⇒ 00:30:25.179 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you, dude. Bye.