Meeting Title: Zoom Meeting Date: 2025-10-23 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Zoran Selinger


WEBVTT

1 00:00:37.920 00:00:47.400 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, sir, how are you? Sorry, I’m just gonna grab a coffee. I’ve been sitting here for 4 hours to go. But how’s everything?

2 00:00:47.400 00:00:51.050 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, good, good. Yeah, just,

3 00:00:52.230 00:00:56.969 Zoran Selinger: Now, a few, few more tweaks, we got it, so…

4 00:00:56.980 00:00:58.000 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, good.

5 00:00:58.000 00:01:10.540 Zoran Selinger: everyone was there. Half of the team was there on the cold, we try and… and they were… they kind of, they had a reaction of, the Zora is here, so we’ll do it now.

6 00:01:10.540 00:01:12.600 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s go!

7 00:01:12.600 00:01:15.460 Zoran Selinger: They kind of had that reaction when I joined.

8 00:01:15.460 00:01:32.230 Uttam Kumaran: Good, dude, I have that reaction too, I know, I mean, like, I, I’m really glad. Look, this is where, like, I don’t… as you know, hopefully you’ve seen, like, I’m not someone that, like, freaks out very often, but I am someone who needs things tracked so that I know when and where I can help.

9 00:01:32.630 00:01:36.259 Uttam Kumaran: some of the problems, you know, I don’t… again, like, I think…

10 00:01:36.570 00:01:43.090 Uttam Kumaran: and maybe I should, like, I don’t know, I know you’ve been working freelance for a while, but even in engineering teams, like.

11 00:01:43.220 00:02:03.199 Uttam Kumaran: it’s… we just need some… we need, like, a unified approach to things, right? And so, for me, it’s important that we have an opinion on what’s going on, and we have a path forward. Like, I know that these things are tricky, and so, like, I’m not here… I’m not, like, a get it done at all costs, like, everyone’s stupid. It’s more of, like, okay, let’s just…

12 00:02:03.300 00:02:09.240 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s just map out what we’ve tried, what we haven’t tried, let’s keep everyone calm, you know, kind of… kind of deal, you know?

13 00:02:20.910 00:02:23.389 Zoran Selinger: Sorry, just forgot that I… if I…

14 00:02:23.390 00:02:23.779 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.

15 00:02:23.880 00:02:27.040 Zoran Selinger: My Mac, I don’t have a microphone.

16 00:02:27.040 00:02:28.160 Uttam Kumaran: All good, all good.

17 00:02:30.680 00:02:41.229 Zoran Selinger: I just, kind of, in the last few, few years, I was, like, I was mostly working for, for another agency in, in US, and I was so, like.

18 00:02:41.850 00:02:45.899 Zoran Selinger: they were so hands-off. I was so independent.

19 00:02:46.430 00:02:50.339 Zoran Selinger: I… because I basically, I control the whole backend by myself.

20 00:02:51.040 00:02:51.860 Zoran Selinger: And…

21 00:02:52.680 00:03:10.929 Zoran Selinger: no one was looking over my shoulder or needed documentation or anything, so I kind of need to get into the groove, again, of doing a little bit more of that. Because I just… no one… I was, you know.

22 00:03:11.800 00:03:19.149 Zoran Selinger: Just working by myself for that function. So really, there was no need to document much.

23 00:03:19.210 00:03:32.590 Zoran Selinger: And I mean, it wasn’t complexy either, so I… it was enough for me to just have everything. I literally knew the name of every single file that I was managing.

24 00:03:32.590 00:03:33.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

25 00:03:33.090 00:03:35.570 Zoran Selinger: And I knew what it was and everything.

26 00:03:35.570 00:03:41.550 Uttam Kumaran: But this… this… our challenge is that, like, I expect everybody to have that, but we have to have redundancy.

27 00:03:41.550 00:03:41.930 Zoran Selinger: Yep.

28 00:03:41.930 00:03:57.550 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because otherwise, you’re never gonna get a day off, you’re never gonna get to see your kids again. You know, and I think that’s one thing that’s important to me, is that, like, we have a team effort, and then also, like, look, this is not only… this… Eden is just one of our clients, right?

29 00:03:57.550 00:03:58.550 Zoran Selinger: And so…

30 00:03:58.710 00:04:10.880 Uttam Kumaran: we want to have that level of rigor for all of our clients, where we come in and we’re the experts. The nice thing is, like, I think your mindset is very similar to, like, me and Robert’s. When we come into a client, and when we go to a meeting.

31 00:04:11.030 00:04:25.789 Uttam Kumaran: always at the end, for the most part, people are like, wow, finally, someone who knows something, you know? And that’s the feeling that we want to give our clients, because ultimately, like, the way you make them feel is how they think about us when they…

32 00:04:26.100 00:04:29.239 Uttam Kumaran: They’re gonna think about, wow, Oh, that, like…

33 00:04:30.290 00:04:36.570 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I agree. I think that, if we get them to sleep better because we’re on… Yes.

34 00:04:37.260 00:04:46.819 Zoran Selinger: then we’ve done our job well. And, I mean, it is… to me, that brings… that brings me the most pleasure from working.

35 00:04:46.970 00:04:55.500 Zoran Selinger: is I want to be… I want to be the problem solver. I want to see that relief when I come to the task, right?

36 00:04:56.150 00:05:09.380 Zoran Selinger: what I saw just an hour ago. I want to get that reaction, and I was… I’m fortunate enough that I’ve managed, basically, to do that wherever

37 00:05:10.020 00:05:11.609 Zoran Selinger: Whenever I… whenever I work…

38 00:05:11.610 00:05:16.669 Uttam Kumaran: No, but that’s not… but that’s… but after some point, it’s not luck anymore, right? It’s skill, right?

39 00:05:16.670 00:05:25.789 Zoran Selinger: I mean, yeah, you get used to just kind of solving problems, and then, obviously, when you approach it with confidence.

40 00:05:25.980 00:05:28.860 Zoran Selinger: It’s, you know, it makes a difference.

41 00:05:29.260 00:05:29.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

42 00:05:29.720 00:05:41.959 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, so basically, I kind of wanted to see, okay, now I’ve been with you for a couple of months, month and a half, couple of months. I wanted to see what you’re thinking, like.

43 00:05:44.050 00:05:54.860 Zoran Selinger: I wanna, you know, I’m freelancing, okay? And that’s mostly because, for, you know, tax purposes here, it’s easier,

44 00:05:55.060 00:06:03.270 Zoran Selinger: than to be, like, remotely employed. It’s just I have, I have, like, tax benefits.

45 00:06:03.270 00:06:03.710 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, sure.

46 00:06:03.710 00:06:12.720 Zoran Selinger: being, you know, a freelancer. But generally speaking, I am available to, you know, full-time.

47 00:06:13.090 00:06:19.119 Zoran Selinger: If that is, you know, a possibility, I’m open to it.

48 00:06:19.290 00:06:25.350 Zoran Selinger: I see, for example, this month, I’m very close to full-time, almost 120 hours, and that’s.

49 00:06:25.350 00:06:26.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

50 00:06:26.290 00:06:31.210 Zoran Selinger: I like that. But basically wanted to see,

51 00:06:31.910 00:06:34.949 Zoran Selinger: Is there a place for me to do that regularly?

52 00:06:35.080 00:06:43.390 Zoran Selinger: to have… To have, you know, 100 plus hours, a month.

53 00:06:44.110 00:06:44.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

54 00:06:44.980 00:06:52.609 Zoran Selinger: And kind of long-term planning of where I want to go, where I want to be there.

55 00:06:53.390 00:07:09.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I guess my point is, one, I really appreciate you even considering us. You know, it’s been great working with you, and I feel lucky that I shot you that message, and then we got to work together, and this is a, I think, a very common

56 00:07:09.450 00:07:25.880 Uttam Kumaran: like, a way that a lot of our folks… like, a way started like that, Demolade started like that. A lot of folks have sort of grown, so this is exactly, like, what we… what we hope for. I think certainly there’s a path. Probably my only thing I would mention is… and, you know, I… I’m assuming…

57 00:07:26.060 00:07:36.689 Uttam Kumaran: I know your answer, because when we first talked, you know, I heard about your background into getting in all these things, and of course, it’s very non-linear, and so I’m sure you’ll be okay with it, but…

58 00:07:36.810 00:07:45.449 Uttam Kumaran: our work spans a lot of different categories. Like, as you can see, we have data work, we have AI work, we have architecture backend, so my only point is that, like.

59 00:07:45.600 00:07:48.870 Uttam Kumaran: Would you… are you open to, sort of, like, taking on…

60 00:07:49.070 00:08:02.899 Uttam Kumaran: even the stuff in data and other things like that, and of course, like, I’m not expecting you to know, it on day one, but we do have a wealth of data work on data engineering, data modeling, analysis,

61 00:08:03.140 00:08:18.600 Uttam Kumaran: And I know, like, your skill set is on the technical architecture backend side, but we do have a lot of that work on the data side that I would love to be able to consider your time for, and so that’s probably my… would be my only sort of caveat.

62 00:08:19.270 00:08:19.880 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

63 00:08:20.230 00:08:24.419 Zoran Selinger: Okay, so this is my, this is my, my view of this.

64 00:08:24.650 00:08:31.300 Zoran Selinger: I do want to… Be closer to the core of what you’re doing.

65 00:08:31.440 00:08:35.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So, obviously, like, this technical implementation stuff.

66 00:08:35.280 00:08:37.709 Zoran Selinger: This is not the core, right?

67 00:08:37.710 00:08:38.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

68 00:08:38.230 00:08:45.140 Zoran Selinger: I’m gonna be counted on for, you know, years. I need to be closer to the core of what you guys are doing.

69 00:08:45.140 00:08:55.210 Uttam Kumaran: It’s also… this is just the core of what we do today. Like, we… the heart of our company is data and AI. As you can see, we have fringe work, because it all kind of comes back to data.

70 00:08:55.380 00:08:57.280 Uttam Kumaran: And… but also, like.

71 00:08:57.550 00:09:06.809 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, like, my background, Robert’s background… so data is always going to be important. We are going to start to do more, but data and AI is certainly going to be…

72 00:09:07.000 00:09:08.880 Uttam Kumaran: the core, for sure.

73 00:09:08.880 00:09:10.260 Zoran Selinger: Yes, and…

74 00:09:10.660 00:09:18.909 Zoran Selinger: I, like, I’ll be completely honest, in my, in my, like, previous engagement, which is basically for the last 6 years.

75 00:09:19.050 00:09:27.510 Zoran Selinger: I’ve… I mean, I kinda didn’t learn as much…

76 00:09:28.450 00:09:34.049 Zoran Selinger: Apart from what I was doing day-to-day, and that was, I feel, pretty narrow.

77 00:09:34.670 00:09:41.700 Zoran Selinger: So, I wanna do… I wanna… I want to train on something new.

78 00:09:41.900 00:09:47.769 Zoran Selinger: Okay? I really want to do that. That’s one of my goals, is I wanna develop a new skill now.

79 00:09:48.100 00:09:56.930 Zoran Selinger: Okay? This, what you… what you see me doing right now, is general problem solving. I have really… I have.

80 00:09:56.930 00:09:58.999 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s true consulting, right?

81 00:09:59.580 00:10:15.799 Uttam Kumaran: This is what we do, man, like, this is… it’s true, like, coming in, any fire, and I was talking to someone about this, I said, you know how hard it is? We come in every day into clients where we have maybe two meetings before we sign a contract, and on day one, we walk in, we have no idea who’s involved.

82 00:10:15.800 00:10:23.729 Uttam Kumaran: what the situation is, like, how… the timelines, and we solve it, right? That is true consulting, right?

83 00:10:24.380 00:10:25.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

84 00:10:25.130 00:10:25.770 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.

85 00:10:26.030 00:10:32.190 Zoran Selinger: And I wanna do something closer to the core. If you…

86 00:10:32.530 00:10:36.350 Zoran Selinger: And I mentioned that in the message. I want to…

87 00:10:36.940 00:10:42.500 Zoran Selinger: I want to learn in a direction that you see being useful in the future.

88 00:10:42.880 00:10:45.749 Zoran Selinger: Obviously, for me, that’s…

89 00:10:45.870 00:10:52.720 Zoran Selinger: what’s important to me. I mean, I have a family, I have… I have kids, I need some job security, basically.

90 00:10:52.720 00:10:53.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

91 00:10:53.120 00:11:01.240 Zoran Selinger: Obviously, I cannot count on, like, on a fully, like, okay, this is gonna be here, 3 years from now, right?

92 00:11:01.340 00:11:06.630 Zoran Selinger: I don’t expect that, but I want to get as close to that as possible.

93 00:11:06.840 00:11:07.330 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

94 00:11:07.790 00:11:20.300 Zoran Selinger: If that means, I’m… and this is something I wanna do, I wanna sit somewhere… I know that I’m not super interested in doing that analytics.

95 00:11:21.610 00:11:22.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

96 00:11:22.290 00:11:33.459 Zoran Selinger: Not… so not necessarily analytics, but steps before that? Yes, so I’m interested in modeling, but also, maybe… maybe I would…

97 00:11:34.790 00:11:39.970 Zoran Selinger: the fast… the fastesters? Basically, I think…

98 00:11:40.100 00:11:44.539 Zoran Selinger: data engineering is the closest to what I know so far.

99 00:11:44.540 00:11:45.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

100 00:11:45.350 00:11:54.559 Uttam Kumaran: I agree, like, I… data engineering, setting up data architecture integrations, setting up, like… this is where…

101 00:11:56.530 00:11:58.209 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to do analysis.

102 00:11:58.330 00:12:01.180 Uttam Kumaran: The… I also agree, like, that is…

103 00:12:01.280 00:12:09.729 Uttam Kumaran: seems very non-technical, but I’m telling you, it’s not that hard. So, I know you’re a curious person, I think we’ll find…

104 00:12:10.130 00:12:11.650 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we’ll fine.

105 00:12:12.290 00:12:14.079 Uttam Kumaran: But, sort of, you can take on…

106 00:12:15.050 00:12:18.269 Zoran Selinger: Sorry, I barely hear you, Utam. I don’t know.

107 00:12:18.270 00:12:19.370 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, really? Sorry.

108 00:12:19.370 00:12:24.289 Zoran Selinger: I’ve never had issues, talking to you with sign-up today is…

109 00:12:24.290 00:12:26.680 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just… I’m just walking around my house, sorry.

110 00:12:26.680 00:12:28.110 Zoran Selinger: Okay, okay.

111 00:12:28.300 00:12:30.080 Uttam Kumaran: Is it okay now?

112 00:12:30.240 00:12:31.350 Zoran Selinger: Yep, yep.

113 00:12:31.350 00:12:35.989 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, no, basically the thing I mentioned is,

114 00:12:36.300 00:12:38.659 Uttam Kumaran: Hold on one second, just like,

115 00:12:48.020 00:12:51.490 Uttam Kumaran: Hold on, let me just… Robert just asked one quick question.

116 00:13:57.130 00:14:02.789 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so… I guess, like, my two points there…

117 00:14:04.040 00:14:06.509 Uttam Kumaran: One is, like, are you…

118 00:14:06.640 00:14:17.160 Uttam Kumaran: Are you interested in more of, like, moving to something that’s more fixed, or just having a sort of guarantee on, like, minimum hours? Like, what is that kind of, like, interesting short-term.

119 00:14:18.560 00:14:24.810 Zoran Selinger: Well, I mean, ideally, I mean, fixed is also fine.

120 00:14:24.810 00:14:25.400 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

121 00:14:25.960 00:14:28.170 Zoran Selinger: Fix would be great.

122 00:14:28.170 00:14:28.760 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

123 00:14:29.040 00:14:29.610 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.

124 00:14:30.200 00:14:34.610 Zoran Selinger: That would be great. I don’t know, I’m… Yeah.

125 00:14:35.690 00:14:48.049 Uttam Kumaran: So, I mean, I’ll give… you know, of course, you… I’m sure you know, like, the math on our side, so for us, like, we… we have some people that are fixed, but they’ve been with the company now… I mean, the whole company’s only been in business, like, a year, year and a half.

126 00:14:48.100 00:14:48.770 Zoran Selinger: But…

127 00:14:48.770 00:14:55.550 Uttam Kumaran: they’ve been with the company, or the company’s been two… two years, two and a half years. They’ve been with the company, like, a year, year and a half, and then…

128 00:14:55.660 00:15:00.449 Uttam Kumaran: they’re sort of… the other way it also works is they’re the first dibs on work, right? Like…

129 00:15:00.640 00:15:03.880 Uttam Kumaran: And so now, as our work is expanding.

130 00:15:04.240 00:15:10.639 Uttam Kumaran: For our… for our team, the important thing is understanding, like, who’s gonna fulfill that work, and at what… at what cost?

131 00:15:10.720 00:15:29.119 Uttam Kumaran: And so we do have folks that are new, like, you joined recently, Henry joined recently, Sam joined recently that are still on hourly, but my goal is to move something to more fixed, if possible, for the folks that want to, you know, stay here and sort of continue work. I think the equation for us is, like, look.

132 00:15:29.120 00:15:31.940 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to have to continue to manage, like.

133 00:15:32.410 00:15:47.960 Uttam Kumaran: like, we do have some understanding of everybody’s, like, gonna be able to work 40 hours, but if we end up working a little bit more here and there, like, we don’t have to worry too much about, like, budget. Like, so for us, the budgeting thing is important. The second thing is, like, we want to make investments in people that want to be here.

134 00:15:47.960 00:15:55.060 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and want to, like, help us. And also, for example, the other point I was gonna make is, even

135 00:15:55.060 00:16:10.129 Uttam Kumaran: like, you, I think, out of a lot of folks, you succeeded sort of freelance, and so you definitely have some type of sales understanding as well. And that’s where I think Robert and I wanted to ask you, too, on, like, how interested you are in even helping us

136 00:16:10.130 00:16:21.599 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not… not on the, sort of, like… it doesn’t have to be on the direct sales side, but even, like, producing case studies, coming on to our calls for, like, sales engineering or solution architecture.

137 00:16:21.600 00:16:36.270 Uttam Kumaran: like, even your interest in that, because I would like for us to be able to take advantage of your experience in, like, pitching yourself and talking about these types of tools to non-technical audience, you know, and, like, how you acquired even your last clients and things like that.

138 00:16:36.920 00:16:38.559 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, yeah,

139 00:16:39.330 00:16:46.099 Zoran Selinger: I’m open to… I’m open to it, of course. I… I do want to say this,

140 00:16:47.310 00:16:53.720 Zoran Selinger: The biggest… the biggest friction for me here Is this,

141 00:16:54.610 00:16:57.599 Zoran Selinger: These are really awkward hours for me.

142 00:16:58.420 00:17:02.920 Zoran Selinger: So, I do have, I do have,

143 00:17:02.920 00:17:05.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so yeah, tell me about that, yeah.

144 00:17:05.190 00:17:10.819 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, so I’ve never had this issue before, basically.

145 00:17:11.010 00:17:24.289 Zoran Selinger: I worked for… for… I mean, I worked for Australians, for… for Americans, but my work was always… I was always kind of making sure that anything I do.

146 00:17:25.119 00:17:27.820 Zoran Selinger: Is not… is not super urgent.

147 00:17:28.180 00:17:28.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

148 00:17:28.850 00:17:35.559 Zoran Selinger: I kind of insisted… insisted on that, so if I… if there’s a request for my… for my work.

149 00:17:35.790 00:17:40.470 Zoran Selinger: It can’t be anything that,

150 00:17:40.510 00:17:59.350 Zoran Selinger: That needs to be done. Basically, 24-hour turnaround is what I, what I went for. But I had a really unique situation at home. I was… so, basically, I have a little bit more availability now than I’ve had.

151 00:17:59.350 00:18:11.590 Zoran Selinger: For the last several… in the last several years. So I’m okay with, with a few of these, like, you know, two or three… these short meetings that we… that we now have.

152 00:18:11.690 00:18:13.710 Zoran Selinger: Yeah. And…

153 00:18:13.840 00:18:23.249 Zoran Selinger: if I’m gonna do more, and maybe longer ones, that’s… I’ll… that’s gonna be a difficult adjustment for me. No, no, so totally…

154 00:18:23.250 00:18:32.689 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. No, so I hear you. So I think the biggest thing for me is to just understand, like, what hours you’re going for. And, like, for example, those meetings are around…

155 00:18:32.750 00:18:50.929 Uttam Kumaran: like, 8 AM, 9am my time. So I feel like you’re typically on until about, like, now, usually, right? Or, like, you kind of log off a little bit earlier. So that’s just something we can adjust… we can adjust to and, like, try to do a lot of meetings in the morning, you know? Yeah.

156 00:18:50.930 00:18:51.500 Zoran Selinger: Yup.

157 00:18:51.500 00:19:01.119 Uttam Kumaran: And then give you a heads up if we do need you. Like, the stuff today with Eden and things like that, like, I don’t know, this is just, like, client fires, but for additional meetings and stuff, certainly, like.

158 00:19:01.230 00:19:13.079 Uttam Kumaran: I… we have people around the globe, and, like, a lot… I don’t… we don’t tend to do a lot in the afternoon where it, like, requires everybody. Most of our stuff is in the… is in the mornings.

159 00:19:13.510 00:19:14.560 Uttam Kumaran: Central Time.

160 00:19:15.080 00:19:27.460 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I mean, this, what’s happening right now is fine. I’m just commenting about if I’m gonna be more, more, you know, client-side, client-facing.

161 00:19:28.920 00:19:40.100 Zoran Selinger: that means a little bit more in terms of meetings, maybe later in the day, and that might be a problem for me. I just… I don’t know exactly.

162 00:19:40.100 00:19:43.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but I just…

163 00:19:43.040 00:19:44.269 Zoran Selinger: I’d like to know, you know?

164 00:19:44.270 00:19:51.750 Uttam Kumaran: I will tell you, because I’m in all the client meetings, or, like, I’m aware of all of them, not much happens after, like, 1PM here.

165 00:19:51.750 00:19:54.540 Zoran Selinger: Yeah. Like, in terms of, in terms of client meetings.

166 00:19:54.810 00:19:56.320 Uttam Kumaran: Most of our stuff is before that.

167 00:19:56.320 00:19:57.729 Zoran Selinger: That’s not too bad, that’s not too bad.

168 00:19:57.730 00:19:58.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

169 00:19:58.670 00:20:05.149 Uttam Kumaran: So most of our stuff is before now, or, like, another hour from now.

170 00:20:05.280 00:20:08.910 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and again, also, like, our expectations for, like.

171 00:20:09.080 00:20:18.890 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, like, more of what I want from, like, more senior folks like you, you, Henry, Awash, is just, like, giving our clients confidence.

172 00:20:19.010 00:20:23.510 Uttam Kumaran: being able to be, accountable for, like, Slack communications.

173 00:20:23.890 00:20:40.609 Uttam Kumaran: And then meetings and stuff, like, again, we will work to try to do those in the… like, I don’t mind doing that. It’s actually the biggest… the bigger problem here is that Robert and I have to be involved in everything. And so my goal for the senior people at the company is for them to start to, like.

174 00:20:40.780 00:20:50.359 Uttam Kumaran: own the client engagements, own the roadmap a little bit, and take that on, which… because it allows me to go spend more time on account management, expansion…

175 00:20:50.360 00:20:50.730 Zoran Selinger: Yep.

176 00:20:50.730 00:21:01.559 Uttam Kumaran: Right? If we’re in the day-to-day, like we are, I can never have a conversation with a client about the future, right? That is… you have to have that separation, and so that’s our immediate goal.

177 00:21:01.560 00:21:01.980 Zoran Selinger: Of course.

178 00:21:01.980 00:21:04.959 Uttam Kumaran: Right now. Which is still, like, as you can tell.

179 00:21:05.450 00:21:12.789 Uttam Kumaran: On some clients, it’s okay, but on other clients, we’re lacking that, like, driving force, that, like, true solution architect.

180 00:21:12.930 00:21:29.020 Uttam Kumaran: you know, who can not only architect the solution, I don’t… I don’t think it even necessarily needs to be, like, project managed. Like, you can see how I’m running the stand-ups, but it mainly needs to be partnering with me or a lead project manager on, like, hey, here are the tickets, here’s who should go do that.

181 00:21:29.210 00:21:34.280 Uttam Kumaran: like, let’s execute this week, right? Even that, for a lot of clients, I’m still doing. I think…

182 00:21:34.720 00:21:41.180 Uttam Kumaran: Part of this is probably we haven’t asked explicitly, but that’s what we want to see out of, like, our senior people, you know?

183 00:21:42.540 00:21:43.600 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, yeah.

184 00:21:45.890 00:21:49.469 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, okay, so how much…

185 00:21:49.470 00:22:05.709 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, like, yeah, like, how… how, like, in a rush are you? Because we will… next week, we’re gonna do our planning for November, so I’m gonna go… we go through all of our allocations, all of our clients, and look at, sort of, the time available, and then,

186 00:22:06.380 00:22:17.280 Uttam Kumaran: I can give you a sense of, like, where I think we can allocate you, for how much time, and then I can… I can take our conversation and go have a chat with Robert on, like, what some… what are some guarantees we can give you.

187 00:22:18.870 00:22:25.599 Zoran Selinger: No, no, that’s fine, that’s fine. Next week, is, is fine.

188 00:22:27.940 00:22:43.630 Zoran Selinger: I don’t have a… I don’t know, I don’t really have a strong deadline for… for this. I just wanna… I just wanted to see… obviously, you can’t answer… answer me right away. I did not expect that. Just.

189 00:22:44.290 00:22:49.549 Uttam Kumaran: We… I would say we are interested in working with you in a bigger format, like, 100%.

190 00:22:49.900 00:22:58.299 Uttam Kumaran: like, so I think you have that… that answer is clear from us. I think, for me, I need to look at our client portfolio and find out

191 00:22:58.410 00:23:05.869 Uttam Kumaran: where the opportunities are, to plug you in. But I guess the larger theme here is, like.

192 00:23:06.240 00:23:25.050 Uttam Kumaran: I want to leverage your time, your client poise, and your expertise in areas where Robert and I are filling in, so that we can kind of get out of some couple things. And so that’s where I think even your strategic understanding of, like, how should we run some of these clients, that’s how I want to leverage

193 00:23:25.200 00:23:41.720 Uttam Kumaran: if I was to ask for one thing from you, it’s like, if we are to make a longer-term investment in you, my expectation is that you also help us build a company a little bit, like, build the internal process. Like, how do we actually execute well on these clients, and move Robert and I to more of this, like.

194 00:23:41.720 00:23:48.069 Uttam Kumaran: control center versus, like, managing the day-to-day, like, that’s what I… that’s what… We need help with.

195 00:23:48.350 00:23:59.319 Zoran Selinger: That’s good, and that’s absolutely fine. I’ll probably have to be involved with a little… with a few more teams in…

196 00:23:59.440 00:24:03.400 Zoran Selinger: in… In the meantime, right?

197 00:24:04.230 00:24:15.229 Zoran Selinger: So maybe get involved a little bit more with data engineering and see how you do, you know, modeling and all that stuff. I need a little bit of understanding of.

198 00:24:15.950 00:24:17.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, totally.

199 00:24:17.850 00:24:19.830 Uttam Kumaran: That’s totally fine, don’t worry about that, yeah, that sucks.

200 00:24:19.830 00:24:30.520 Zoran Selinger: So, it’s probably not… not… I don’t think that’s gonna… if you count on that, that’s probably not gonna be something that I’m gonna be able to do in, you know, in a first month.

201 00:24:30.520 00:24:33.960 Uttam Kumaran: But dude, like, I’m not worried, don’t worry, my expectations…

202 00:24:34.290 00:24:47.049 Uttam Kumaran: for you are not, like, artificial, like… but also, this is where, like, I think you know how we work, is, like, we… we teach, and so we’ll work alongside of you until you can start picking these types of things up, so… Totally, yeah.

203 00:24:47.050 00:24:48.749 Zoran Selinger: Cool. Okay, okay.

204 00:24:49.110 00:24:50.950 Zoran Selinger: Excellent, excellent.

205 00:24:51.160 00:24:54.160 Zoran Selinger: Alright.

206 00:24:55.160 00:24:57.469 Zoran Selinger: I’m happy with that.

207 00:24:57.470 00:24:58.420 Uttam Kumaran: Appreciate it.

208 00:24:58.420 00:25:04.940 Zoran Selinger: See, see what you… Definitely. See what kind of… What you have…

209 00:25:05.130 00:25:11.980 Zoran Selinger: I understand, I understand what you want and what you need, and I mean, you mentioned this in our first conversation.

210 00:25:12.180 00:25:12.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

211 00:25:12.680 00:25:15.189 Zoran Selinger: And now that I’m here.

212 00:25:15.310 00:25:21.689 Zoran Selinger: for the last, you know, 45, 50 days, it does look like it’s… it’s doable, and I…

213 00:25:21.860 00:25:28.900 Zoran Selinger: And I think I showed that I can contribute, and I want to contribute. Totally. So yeah, let’s do it.

214 00:25:29.280 00:25:36.500 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, thanks, dude. Alright, so yeah, give me… give me some time, let me think about it over the next, couple days, week, and I’ll get back to you.

215 00:25:36.500 00:25:38.100 Zoran Selinger: Sure, alright, that’s fine.

216 00:25:38.150 00:25:39.329 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Appreciate it.

217 00:25:39.440 00:25:40.009 Zoran Selinger: Thank you.

218 00:25:40.010 00:25:42.170 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, thank you, man. Talk to you soon. Bye.