Meeting Title: Engineering Leads Sync Date: 2025-09-29 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Samuel Roberts, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:02.310 ⇒ 00:00:03.080 Awaish Kumar: Nope.
2 00:00:26.740 ⇒ 00:00:27.880 Awaish Kumar: Goldberg?
3 00:04:03.080 ⇒ 00:04:04.590 Awaish Kumar: Hello?
4 00:04:06.820 ⇒ 00:04:08.729 Samuel Roberts: Hey, how are you?
5 00:04:10.060 ⇒ 00:04:10.980 Awaish Kumar: How you doing?
6 00:04:11.720 ⇒ 00:04:15.010 Samuel Roberts: Moving a little slow, a little… a little sick today.
7 00:04:17.050 ⇒ 00:04:18.510 Samuel Roberts: Besides that, alright.
8 00:04:20.959 ⇒ 00:04:22.099 Samuel Roberts: What about you?
9 00:04:22.100 ⇒ 00:04:23.139 Awaish Kumar: Are you located?
10 00:04:25.030 ⇒ 00:04:25.860 Samuel Roberts: I’m sorry?
11 00:04:26.170 ⇒ 00:04:28.090 Awaish Kumar: Say, where do you work from?
12 00:04:29.230 ⇒ 00:04:31.580 Samuel Roberts: Oh, I’m in, am I in Cleveland, Ohio.
13 00:04:32.040 ⇒ 00:04:32.850 Awaish Kumar: Sorry?
14 00:04:33.580 ⇒ 00:04:34.630 Samuel Roberts: Cleveland, Ohio.
15 00:04:35.330 ⇒ 00:04:36.220 Samuel Roberts: Where am I?
16 00:04:38.440 ⇒ 00:04:39.130 Awaish Kumar: Sunny.
17 00:04:39.780 ⇒ 00:04:42.019 Samuel Roberts: I can’t… hold on, maybe my… can you hear me?
18 00:04:42.600 ⇒ 00:04:43.610 Awaish Kumar: I can hear you.
19 00:04:44.080 ⇒ 00:04:45.730 Samuel Roberts: Okay, but wouldn’t you ask where I am?
20 00:04:46.920 ⇒ 00:04:47.670 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah.
21 00:04:48.150 ⇒ 00:04:49.740 Samuel Roberts: I’m in Cleveland, Ohio.
22 00:04:49.870 ⇒ 00:04:50.889 Samuel Roberts: In the States.
23 00:04:51.190 ⇒ 00:04:51.970 Awaish Kumar: Oh.
24 00:04:52.140 ⇒ 00:04:53.220 Awaish Kumar: Ohio.
25 00:04:53.780 ⇒ 00:04:54.460 Samuel Roberts: Yes.
26 00:04:55.050 ⇒ 00:04:56.959 Awaish Kumar: United States, also.
27 00:04:57.800 ⇒ 00:05:00.370 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah. East Coast time.
28 00:05:01.110 ⇒ 00:05:02.040 Awaish Kumar: Okay, okay.
29 00:05:03.680 ⇒ 00:05:05.819 Awaish Kumar: So, have you been living there for, like.
30 00:05:07.760 ⇒ 00:05:10.210 Awaish Kumar: Like, born there, or just moved there?
31 00:05:10.210 ⇒ 00:05:13.800 Samuel Roberts: No, I wasn’t born here, but I came to college here, and I stuck around, so…
32 00:05:16.470 ⇒ 00:05:17.460 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, guys.
33 00:05:17.460 ⇒ 00:05:18.170 Awaish Kumar: Amazing!
34 00:05:18.170 ⇒ 00:05:18.799 Samuel Roberts: How are you?
35 00:05:19.710 ⇒ 00:05:21.400 Uttam Kumaran: Good, how’s the day going?
36 00:05:23.400 ⇒ 00:05:27.190 Samuel Roberts: I’m a little sick, I don’t know if you can tell by my voice, I’m a little congested.
37 00:05:28.450 ⇒ 00:05:30.429 Samuel Roberts: Something’s going on with me, so I’m a little slow.
38 00:05:30.430 ⇒ 00:05:33.270 Uttam Kumaran: Me too.
39 00:05:33.270 ⇒ 00:05:34.819 Samuel Roberts: Oh, no way!
40 00:05:35.030 ⇒ 00:05:39.139 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so, we are… we… Survives in a while, but…
41 00:05:39.140 ⇒ 00:05:41.860 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I got some.
42 00:05:42.560 ⇒ 00:05:44.099 Samuel Roberts: the medicine, I’m doing alright.
43 00:05:44.100 ⇒ 00:05:45.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
44 00:05:46.330 ⇒ 00:05:48.310 Samuel Roberts: That time of year, I guess, starting up.
45 00:05:49.780 ⇒ 00:06:03.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, hopefully not too much of a long meeting, but just wanted to check in with you guys on how everything’s going. I think the, you know, the delivery meetings are getting better and better. I think what we’re probably finding out, though, is, like, our
46 00:06:03.540 ⇒ 00:06:05.960 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of time for internal stuff is…
47 00:06:05.990 ⇒ 00:06:08.870 Awaish Kumar: Just gonna kinda stay slim until we can…
48 00:06:09.130 ⇒ 00:06:10.970 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of build up more work.
49 00:06:11.210 ⇒ 00:06:20.179 Uttam Kumaran: around, you know, build more space for internal engineering, but I still want to make sure that we talk every week about how we’re keeping standards high on
50 00:06:20.290 ⇒ 00:06:26.620 Uttam Kumaran: On engineering work and how we’re enabling all of our engineers, but yeah, that’s, sort of my goal.
51 00:06:28.680 ⇒ 00:06:35.699 Samuel Roberts: Okay, yeah, cool. Yeah, I’ve got my, like, monthly reviews scheduled for Thursday.
52 00:06:36.030 ⇒ 00:06:36.710 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
53 00:06:41.940 ⇒ 00:06:45.230 Samuel Roberts: Part of those I haven’t gotten around to that today yet, but I want to get that done before.
54 00:06:45.350 ⇒ 00:06:46.220 Samuel Roberts: Put stuff over.
55 00:06:46.220 ⇒ 00:06:46.820 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
56 00:06:47.460 ⇒ 00:06:48.710 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
57 00:06:49.670 ⇒ 00:06:51.200 Samuel Roberts: Sorry.
58 00:06:53.160 ⇒ 00:06:59.810 Awaish Kumar: I think, like, I shared… this ticket categorization with PM already, and they will be…
59 00:07:00.080 ⇒ 00:07:03.679 Awaish Kumar: Like, we will be working on together, like, in grooming meetings.
60 00:07:03.920 ⇒ 00:07:04.660 Awaish Kumar: Mostly…
61 00:07:04.660 ⇒ 00:07:05.410 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
62 00:07:05.410 ⇒ 00:07:11.899 Awaish Kumar: To, like… like, when we add these points and things, then we can also categorize them.
63 00:07:13.920 ⇒ 00:07:15.020 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great.
64 00:07:15.550 ⇒ 00:07:25.999 Awaish Kumar: that can help us in reporting. After that, I already shared in Slack, I already had a DBD project.
65 00:07:26.380 ⇒ 00:07:29.070 Awaish Kumar: For data platform, and pretty…
66 00:07:29.070 ⇒ 00:07:29.790 Uttam Kumaran: Great.
67 00:07:29.790 ⇒ 00:07:34.840 Awaish Kumar: modeled some things, and it’s available in Omni as well.
68 00:07:35.580 ⇒ 00:07:36.140 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
69 00:07:36.360 ⇒ 00:07:38.789 Awaish Kumar: But it depends, on, like, how’s…
70 00:07:40.610 ⇒ 00:07:41.690 Awaish Kumar: How far we want to go?
71 00:07:41.690 ⇒ 00:07:48.619 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess my question… my question there, you mentioned that there was some type of, account issue, right? Like, you still need me to look into that?
72 00:07:49.030 ⇒ 00:07:52.539 Awaish Kumar: So, yeah, like, basically, can I share? Maybe share?
73 00:07:53.470 ⇒ 00:07:53.980 Uttam Kumaran: wall.
74 00:07:55.400 ⇒ 00:07:58.090 Awaish Kumar: I’m on a different machine, but, you know, this would be…
75 00:08:03.000 ⇒ 00:08:07.190 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, actually, I’m able to…
76 00:08:13.630 ⇒ 00:08:16.590 Awaish Kumar: access it, like, I can run a query.
77 00:08:16.800 ⇒ 00:08:22.530 Awaish Kumar: And then, for example, I go here, I’m delivery reporting, I added this.
78 00:08:24.870 ⇒ 00:08:29.219 Awaish Kumar: our summary… I don’t know who, Jinx…
79 00:08:34.419 ⇒ 00:08:36.350 Awaish Kumar: Okay, somebody change the…
80 00:08:41.049 ⇒ 00:08:43.539 Awaish Kumar: Kerry, but we can maybe go in.
81 00:08:46.950 ⇒ 00:08:48.150 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, it’s Grant’s.
82 00:08:55.830 ⇒ 00:08:56.430 Awaish Kumar: Boom.
83 00:09:08.440 ⇒ 00:09:10.609 Awaish Kumar: I’ll just go and,
84 00:09:24.360 ⇒ 00:09:31.750 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, so what I’m… I was saying is that I’m not able to see those things here. If I…
85 00:09:32.320 ⇒ 00:09:39.089 Awaish Kumar: if I… I can run query here, and I’m able to run it successfully, like, for example.
86 00:09:39.470 ⇒ 00:09:40.950 Awaish Kumar: I could say it’s like…
87 00:09:44.160 ⇒ 00:09:45.800 Awaish Kumar: Wrong.
88 00:09:51.360 ⇒ 00:09:52.510 Awaish Kumar: Who knows?
89 00:09:53.000 ⇒ 00:09:57.340 Awaish Kumar: And then I have, called in… Oh, sorry.
90 00:10:00.200 ⇒ 00:10:02.729 Awaish Kumar: once dot, hours.
91 00:10:03.610 ⇒ 00:10:04.640 Awaish Kumar: Somebody…
92 00:10:05.140 ⇒ 00:10:14.559 Awaish Kumar: But we are not able to see, like, see that here. On the left-hand side, you cannot see the deep grot marks on the top, but…
93 00:10:15.080 ⇒ 00:10:19.510 Awaish Kumar: Under here, these are all schemas from raw database.
94 00:10:20.800 ⇒ 00:10:22.050 Awaish Kumar: So, I guess, hmm…
95 00:10:22.450 ⇒ 00:10:41.859 Awaish Kumar: And it’s because, in the Snowflake connection, when I try… it’s… it accesses, database raw. I moved it to, like, to access database prodd. I just renamed the database there in the settings, but it just renamed it, and… but didn’t actually…
96 00:10:42.350 ⇒ 00:10:48.609 Awaish Kumar: Throwing us… like, the content of ProdMods is content from raw database.
97 00:10:52.850 ⇒ 00:10:58.420 Awaish Kumar: But it is… we are able to run it, like, I can run it, and it just gets us the data.
98 00:11:14.830 ⇒ 00:11:19.799 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, sorry, I was on mute. Yeah, I guess, like, seems like something’s probably in connections, right? But…
99 00:11:19.920 ⇒ 00:11:20.810 Awaish Kumar: Let’s…
100 00:11:21.140 ⇒ 00:11:26.400 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fine, like, I’m not so worried about it. As long as we’re able to query now, I’m good.
101 00:11:26.680 ⇒ 00:11:33.249 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that’s what I did. I just run a query, and then here you can actually save it as a query view.
102 00:11:34.070 ⇒ 00:11:40.749 Awaish Kumar: Okay. Saved it as a query view, and then you can build a chart on top of it.
103 00:11:41.820 ⇒ 00:11:42.490 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
104 00:11:43.110 ⇒ 00:11:45.639 Awaish Kumar: So that’s what I did last time.
105 00:11:47.380 ⇒ 00:11:56.739 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, that way you can access. But, like, for… like, for me and you, it’s quite, like, it’s nothing, but for, like, Amber, maybe.
106 00:11:56.850 ⇒ 00:12:01.180 Awaish Kumar: if she can’t see the table name, I don’t know how she’s going to know, like.
107 00:12:01.180 ⇒ 00:12:04.209 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, so wait, can you refresh the connection or something?
108 00:12:05.680 ⇒ 00:12:10.020 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I already tried that, like, updating the connection.
109 00:12:10.480 ⇒ 00:12:15.269 Awaish Kumar: Basically… I have the best go bad.
110 00:12:16.140 ⇒ 00:12:17.400 Awaish Kumar: Settings…
111 00:12:25.160 ⇒ 00:12:26.110 Awaish Kumar: So…
112 00:12:30.350 ⇒ 00:12:36.729 Awaish Kumar: I came here, I tried to change this database, which only changed the name, and not the content.
113 00:12:37.900 ⇒ 00:12:38.730 Awaish Kumar: Oh.
114 00:12:38.730 ⇒ 00:12:40.110 Uttam Kumaran: Well, yeah.
115 00:12:40.290 ⇒ 00:12:41.679 Awaish Kumar: Maybe that will help.
116 00:12:42.240 ⇒ 00:12:43.859 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so do this.
117 00:12:47.270 ⇒ 00:12:49.999 Uttam Kumaran: So just click refresh, it’ll refresh everything.
118 00:12:52.520 ⇒ 00:12:53.260 Awaish Kumar: Would be…
119 00:12:58.150 ⇒ 00:12:59.280 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
120 00:13:00.180 ⇒ 00:13:03.999 Awaish Kumar: Then we’re gonna… then I’m also gonna add…
121 00:13:25.130 ⇒ 00:13:26.520 Awaish Kumar: Right.
122 00:13:31.820 ⇒ 00:13:32.610 Uttam Kumaran: Did it work?
123 00:13:33.840 ⇒ 00:13:37.679 Awaish Kumar: I can check, but I added this here.
124 00:13:38.470 ⇒ 00:13:39.150 Uttam Kumaran: Oh.
125 00:13:39.150 ⇒ 00:13:41.929 Awaish Kumar: Not seeing the DVD here, I don’t know why.
126 00:13:42.870 ⇒ 00:13:49.179 Awaish Kumar: Like, in the… I added this, this, and this is basically set up. I added a public key, and…
127 00:13:49.350 ⇒ 00:13:53.860 Awaish Kumar: Everything… This successfully connected with the database.
128 00:13:55.540 ⇒ 00:13:56.450 Awaish Kumar: With the GitHub.
129 00:13:56.450 ⇒ 00:13:58.510 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, we have to run this migration on the right.
130 00:14:02.340 ⇒ 00:14:04.330 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I tried that, also.
131 00:14:10.670 ⇒ 00:14:14.450 Awaish Kumar: Where does it show? Like, it said it runs migration complete.
132 00:14:17.310 ⇒ 00:14:19.260 Uttam Kumaran: I have to check the settings, I’m not sure.
133 00:14:20.840 ⇒ 00:14:23.229 Awaish Kumar: Okay, we can go back to…
134 00:14:28.110 ⇒ 00:14:35.349 Awaish Kumar: Let’s simply this view… Okay, diagonally.
135 00:14:35.880 ⇒ 00:14:39.079 Awaish Kumar: I can… see what’s in March.
136 00:14:42.760 ⇒ 00:14:44.990 Awaish Kumar: But this is still a problem.
137 00:14:47.160 ⇒ 00:14:48.830 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah.
138 00:14:49.250 ⇒ 00:14:50.190 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
139 00:14:50.190 ⇒ 00:14:50.930 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
140 00:14:52.280 ⇒ 00:14:55.169 Awaish Kumar: We can access per mod, per intermediate.
141 00:14:55.730 ⇒ 00:15:00.499 Uttam Kumaran: So I would just have no… yeah, I mean, unless you want to add the raw access.
142 00:15:00.710 ⇒ 00:15:04.119 Uttam Kumaran: You can add that, but ideally, everything should come modeled, right?
143 00:15:04.840 ⇒ 00:15:05.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
144 00:15:05.390 ⇒ 00:15:05.990 Awaish Kumar: Not anymore.
145 00:15:05.990 ⇒ 00:15:06.510 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t…
146 00:15:06.510 ⇒ 00:15:07.999 Awaish Kumar: I kept it there.
147 00:15:08.450 ⇒ 00:15:09.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
148 00:15:09.940 ⇒ 00:15:12.059 Awaish Kumar: Like, something like… Yeah, and then it…
149 00:15:12.060 ⇒ 00:15:22.050 Uttam Kumaran: You should check out what the modeling… because Omni has two-way sync, basically, which makes it really nice. So you can actually do modeling in Omni and push it back to DPT.
150 00:15:22.050 ⇒ 00:15:26.040 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, you can do it from here, like… convert to dbtim, whatever.
151 00:15:26.700 ⇒ 00:15:27.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah…
152 00:15:32.990 ⇒ 00:15:34.559 Awaish Kumar: And the Apple’s already connected.
153 00:15:44.510 ⇒ 00:15:46.140 Awaish Kumar: That’s okay.
154 00:15:49.370 ⇒ 00:15:56.769 Awaish Kumar: Only thing I’m missing, I saw in one of their, maybe, demo videos or something, they were showing all full dbt
155 00:15:58.180 ⇒ 00:16:02.290 Awaish Kumar: Project in here.
156 00:16:04.330 ⇒ 00:16:05.790 Awaish Kumar: Come on, maybe, yes.
157 00:16:08.760 ⇒ 00:16:10.309 Awaish Kumar: Okay, so it is here.
158 00:16:13.010 ⇒ 00:16:13.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
159 00:16:15.270 ⇒ 00:16:18.400 Awaish Kumar: Okay, if you, if you can… Fantastic.
160 00:16:18.400 ⇒ 00:16:18.950 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
161 00:16:18.950 ⇒ 00:16:25.310 Awaish Kumar: You can go to Model Change, and open an DVD ID, and you can see all care, basically, and…
162 00:16:26.430 ⇒ 00:16:27.340 Awaish Kumar: Wow.
163 00:16:27.340 ⇒ 00:16:33.579 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so ideally, I want to get everyone, like, trained on how, like, especially on the delivery team, those guys should start to build
164 00:16:34.380 ⇒ 00:16:36.080 Uttam Kumaran: views themselves.
165 00:16:36.540 ⇒ 00:16:37.250 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
166 00:16:37.860 ⇒ 00:16:38.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
167 00:16:40.080 ⇒ 00:16:41.150 Awaish Kumar: That’s corrected.
168 00:16:43.260 ⇒ 00:16:44.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
169 00:16:50.730 ⇒ 00:16:51.320 Awaish Kumar: Hey.
170 00:16:53.180 ⇒ 00:16:55.299 Awaish Kumar: Stop sharing. Okay, I’m done.
171 00:16:56.270 ⇒ 00:16:57.570 Awaish Kumar: Let us move on.
172 00:16:58.890 ⇒ 00:16:59.450 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
173 00:17:00.400 ⇒ 00:17:01.840 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great.
174 00:17:02.280 ⇒ 00:17:04.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think the other thing is I’m gonna… I think…
175 00:17:04.770 ⇒ 00:17:07.539 Uttam Kumaran: The… if we’re talking about talent.
176 00:17:07.560 ⇒ 00:17:23.549 Uttam Kumaran: I think there’s two, two folks. One, Sam, I’m talking to this, it’s actually a younger guy, his name is Joseph Good. He actually came recommended by Matthew, it’s Matthew’s brother, actually, little brother, and he’s been doing a lot of work
177 00:17:23.550 ⇒ 00:17:36.759 Uttam Kumaran: on the, in AI. Actually, he’s done a lot of work in Clay, and recently graduated and was just interested in, like, potential roles. I think he could be someone that could play… could help us both
178 00:17:36.830 ⇒ 00:17:44.029 Uttam Kumaran: On the sales side, as well as, like, sort of as the, potentially as a… Like.
179 00:17:44.280 ⇒ 00:17:53.770 Uttam Kumaran: Solutions Architect. He’s not that technical, though, but he is tech… he is, like, technical in some of these new, like, go-to-market engineering-related things.
180 00:17:54.190 ⇒ 00:17:54.770 Samuel Roberts: Oh, okay.
181 00:17:54.770 ⇒ 00:18:03.089 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna… I’m gonna be calling him later this evening, but I was hoping that maybe I can connect you with him later this week.
182 00:18:03.160 ⇒ 00:18:15.139 Uttam Kumaran: maybe you can just say hi, and again, like, I think one thing that we’re gonna start to change, and… and would love to hear your guys’ feedback, is, like, we’re… I think we’re gonna aim to hire less, like.
183 00:18:15.590 ⇒ 00:18:27.660 Uttam Kumaran: well-defined roles, and more folks that are, like, true consultants, right? Where it’s, like, partly you play as… the role you play is engineering, but also there’s a big communication aspect.
184 00:18:27.730 ⇒ 00:18:37.449 Uttam Kumaran: the problem with it is people are gonna always come to Brainforge from one or two directions. There’s gonna be business people that want to get more technical, there’s gonna be…
185 00:18:37.560 ⇒ 00:18:47.239 Uttam Kumaran: technical people that are, like, have to stretch to the business side. So, I think that’s helpful for us to keep in mind as we talk to candidates, which is, like, where are they meeting us?
186 00:18:47.360 ⇒ 00:18:56.210 Uttam Kumaran: And then, we’re gonna… I think, longer term, we’re gonna have to just train people. Like, they’re gonna have to… we’re gonna have to have, like, a 4-6 week, like.
187 00:18:56.400 ⇒ 00:19:11.470 Uttam Kumaran: boot camp, basically, onboarding, which is, like, it trains you in the area that you don’t have. So if you’re just an engineer, then we train you in everything, like how to communicate, how do we be, like, effective consultants. And on the business side, it’s more about the technical side. So…
188 00:19:11.810 ⇒ 00:19:19.129 Uttam Kumaran: You know, again, the roles that we have, we have, like, delivery people, and within delivery, we have engineers, and we have project managers, so…
189 00:19:19.250 ⇒ 00:19:21.990 Uttam Kumaran: You know, within it, we also have, like, sort of…
190 00:19:22.100 ⇒ 00:19:33.880 Uttam Kumaran: folks like us that can be more solution architects, that can be, like, tech leads, so I think it’s helpful, you know, when you talk to someone like Joe, to… to sort of say, okay, this… there’s, like, this kid’s coming a little bit from, like.
191 00:19:33.880 ⇒ 00:19:45.640 Uttam Kumaran: sort of the business side, wants to deliver for clients, but also has the capability of speaking and understanding their problem, so I think it’s helpful for us to just, like, think about folks in a more multidimensional versus, like.
192 00:19:45.740 ⇒ 00:19:56.690 Uttam Kumaran: oh, they would just be perfect for, like, this one role. Like, maybe he’s also helped… he could also sell what we’re doing, right? So he can take over and work directly with marketing on things, so…
193 00:19:56.950 ⇒ 00:20:03.359 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I guess I’m a little bit rambling, but that’s sort of how I want us to think about people more in, like, a traditional management consultant
194 00:20:03.660 ⇒ 00:20:08.789 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of way, versus, like, Oh, you are this, like, type of engineer, you know?
195 00:20:09.440 ⇒ 00:20:10.310 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.
196 00:20:10.470 ⇒ 00:20:11.540 Samuel Roberts: Okay, yeah.
197 00:20:12.410 ⇒ 00:20:13.930 Samuel Roberts: Let me talk with him,
198 00:20:15.170 ⇒ 00:20:17.970 Samuel Roberts: That makes some sense, yeah, definitely, like…
199 00:20:18.410 ⇒ 00:20:24.510 Samuel Roberts: I think there’s definitely a question of, like, how much people want to get, like, more technical and more business, and we’ll have to feel that out on, like, a…
200 00:20:25.190 ⇒ 00:20:29.189 Samuel Roberts: That’s part of the recruiting process, I guess, because they’re looking for a different thing.
201 00:20:29.980 ⇒ 00:20:49.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it’s also helpful for us to be really honest with candidates, is like, hey, there is a lot of communication, a lot of client stuff in this role. So, like, that’s a way we filter people out, right? Where it’s like, you will be directly talking to the people that we’re serving, you know, there’s no, like, there’s no two ways around that. So that’s something that I want to…
202 00:20:50.150 ⇒ 00:20:52.750 Uttam Kumaran: Make sure that people aren’t…
203 00:20:52.910 ⇒ 00:21:00.740 Uttam Kumaran: sort of surprised that we have engineers that are working directly with consultants. And in fact, we should be sourcing the people that that’s what they’re so excited to do, you know.
204 00:21:00.740 ⇒ 00:21:01.340 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah.
205 00:21:01.340 ⇒ 00:21:09.369 Uttam Kumaran: being like… because before, I used to try to explain to people, like, yeah, this is consultancy, but we’re still, like, a lot of engineering, and I do think that there is…
206 00:21:10.030 ⇒ 00:21:19.390 Uttam Kumaran: I think… I don’t know, I just think it’s important for us to actually use that as a filtering mechanism, which is, like, we want to get people that are excited to sort of stretch in both ways.
207 00:21:20.050 ⇒ 00:21:20.780 Samuel Roberts: Stephen.
208 00:21:20.780 ⇒ 00:21:28.389 Awaish Kumar: Also, like, in most of the companies where I’ve worked at, and also where my friends work, like.
209 00:21:28.550 ⇒ 00:21:31.450 Awaish Kumar: Most of the… these consultancies, where they…
210 00:21:32.870 ⇒ 00:21:38.130 Awaish Kumar: They assign the engineer to do engineering work and the communication, both of
211 00:21:38.300 ⇒ 00:21:46.819 Awaish Kumar: Both of… both of it, like, they handle the client from start to end, everything, but then they are, like, assigned on an only single client, and .
212 00:21:46.820 ⇒ 00:21:47.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
213 00:21:47.700 ⇒ 00:21:50.370 Awaish Kumar: We also have to, like, think about
214 00:21:50.790 ⇒ 00:21:54.920 Awaish Kumar: Like, because there’s more contact switching as well, we may be assigning.
215 00:21:54.960 ⇒ 00:21:57.980 Uttam Kumaran: Same question to, like, 2 or 3 clients.
216 00:21:59.180 ⇒ 00:22:02.970 Uttam Kumaran: That’s correct, yeah. Like, for now, again, none of our clients are big enough
217 00:22:03.120 ⇒ 00:22:05.400 Uttam Kumaran: With one stream, where it’s, like.
218 00:22:05.880 ⇒ 00:22:07.990 Uttam Kumaran: Easy to just have one person.
219 00:22:08.180 ⇒ 00:22:14.560 Uttam Kumaran: So… There’s definitely, gonna be significant Context switching.
220 00:22:19.890 ⇒ 00:22:24.320 Samuel Roberts: I mean, that’s a filter mechanism, people are… Less excited about that.
221 00:22:25.330 ⇒ 00:22:44.259 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree, and I also think it’s important for you guys to reflect on, like, okay, what was it like when you talked to me versus inside? Like, I think we missed a lot of details, but also, I just try to stress that, like, clients are number one, but, like, I would rather have fewer people and more people be, like, 5, 10, 20x engineers or delivery people
222 00:22:44.260 ⇒ 00:22:55.469 Uttam Kumaran: than fewer… than more people that are just, like, average. And I think that’s the thing, it’s like, I think the way it’s gonna work is actually the screening process, we’re gonna screen out more people.
223 00:22:55.480 ⇒ 00:22:56.259 Uttam Kumaran: And so…
224 00:22:56.260 ⇒ 00:22:56.710 Samuel Roberts: Yes.
225 00:22:56.710 ⇒ 00:23:01.820 Uttam Kumaran: this is where I think, emotionally, we should be okay with the fact that, like, not many people are gonna make
226 00:23:01.920 ⇒ 00:23:08.739 Uttam Kumaran: are gonna… because I don’t think there’s many people like us who could sort of bridge both, right? And so…
227 00:23:08.990 ⇒ 00:23:21.330 Uttam Kumaran: I think for us, it’s going to be important to say, like, okay, we… we know there’s not many people like us, and so our filter has got to be very high, and we will reject quite a bit of applicants until we find the…
228 00:23:21.590 ⇒ 00:23:22.910 Uttam Kumaran: the right person.
229 00:23:24.690 ⇒ 00:23:26.089 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think that’s…
230 00:23:26.350 ⇒ 00:23:27.080 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
231 00:23:29.060 ⇒ 00:23:32.330 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, unless you’re looking to grow headcount crazy, which obviously we’re not, like.
232 00:23:32.580 ⇒ 00:23:33.590 Awaish Kumar: Okay, right.
233 00:23:33.590 ⇒ 00:23:42.019 Uttam Kumaran: I just think that we have… I just think, like, dude, I just think it’s, like, it’s… even if we were to grow headcount, like, every hire has to be great, and I just don’t know…
234 00:23:42.020 ⇒ 00:23:43.689 Samuel Roberts: That’s what I mean, like, you want it proportion.
235 00:23:43.690 ⇒ 00:23:45.520 Uttam Kumaran: Compromised. Yeah.
236 00:23:45.520 ⇒ 00:23:46.110 Samuel Roberts: Total.
237 00:23:46.500 ⇒ 00:23:47.589 Uttam Kumaran: So, it’s like…
238 00:23:47.590 ⇒ 00:23:49.750 Awaish Kumar: From, from the experience.
239 00:23:50.430 ⇒ 00:23:54.659 Uttam Kumaran: being at Brain Forge, I think the only people, like, most…
240 00:23:54.740 ⇒ 00:24:02.740 Awaish Kumar: Who either worked at startups, or worked at constituencies before, or worked as freelancers are successful here.
241 00:24:03.410 ⇒ 00:24:04.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
242 00:24:04.100 ⇒ 00:24:05.960 Awaish Kumar: From product companies, like.
243 00:24:07.380 ⇒ 00:24:08.290 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve not done well.
244 00:24:08.290 ⇒ 00:24:09.120 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
245 00:24:09.880 ⇒ 00:24:10.840 Uttam Kumaran: I agree.
246 00:24:11.320 ⇒ 00:24:13.950 Uttam Kumaran: Which su- it’s just… it’s just tough, like…
247 00:24:14.370 ⇒ 00:24:18.759 Uttam Kumaran: You know, but it just forces us to rethink how we recruit and the questions we ask.
248 00:24:19.290 ⇒ 00:24:21.150 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you know…
249 00:24:21.960 ⇒ 00:24:27.250 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we care a lot about people that who can describe, like, how their work actually led to outcomes versus, like.
250 00:24:27.370 ⇒ 00:24:30.220 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I can… I checked all your boxes, it’s like…
251 00:24:30.580 ⇒ 00:24:30.910 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
252 00:24:30.910 ⇒ 00:24:37.399 Uttam Kumaran: It’s almost not often a box-checking exercise, you know? It’s just like, can we get to the next milestone fast?
253 00:24:43.290 ⇒ 00:24:43.880 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me.
254 00:24:44.820 ⇒ 00:24:54.610 Uttam Kumaran: That’s something, I mean, that’s all… all to be said is that just the bar is gonna keep going up, so… I think it’s up to us on the engineering as leadership to think about how do we keep the bar
255 00:24:55.180 ⇒ 00:25:03.649 Uttam Kumaran: really high, and we should see that we’re rejecting more people, or that it should feel frustrating. For me, it’s frustration, like, as…
256 00:25:03.840 ⇒ 00:25:06.889 Uttam Kumaran: I tell a lot of people it’s very hard to find folks, like.
257 00:25:07.150 ⇒ 00:25:14.880 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I feel lucky that I found… we’ve… the company’s found both of you guys from… from various different channels, but…
258 00:25:15.330 ⇒ 00:25:33.940 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think it’s gonna get easier, so I think we just have to make sure that we keep the bar very, very high, and so that’s what I think is gonna be a difference, versus, like, past company hiring, even who we were… how we were hiring 6 months ago. It’s just, like, the bar’s gonna get higher. Like, we really need to see that communication increase.
259 00:25:33.940 ⇒ 00:25:34.270 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
260 00:25:34.270 ⇒ 00:25:36.939 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we have to have engineers that are, like.
261 00:25:37.060 ⇒ 00:25:48.010 Uttam Kumaran: Mustafa, Casey, where they’re, like, really communicative, on top of their tickets, because then we’re not setting up our project managers to just crush the communication.
262 00:25:48.730 ⇒ 00:25:49.600 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.
263 00:25:50.340 ⇒ 00:25:51.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
264 00:25:52.910 ⇒ 00:26:00.280 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and just thinking recruiting-wise, that’s gonna mean, like, higher top funnel numbers to… because we’re just adding, like, another layer of filtering kind of thing.
265 00:26:03.270 ⇒ 00:26:12.139 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and actually, I’m not worried… I think I’m less worried about, like, the middle of the funnel. Like, I’m… I’m… I think we’re gonna get a lot of applicants, no matter what.
266 00:26:12.290 ⇒ 00:26:13.690 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s more about, like.
267 00:26:13.690 ⇒ 00:26:15.100 Samuel Roberts: I’m not really something to get it.
268 00:26:15.540 ⇒ 00:26:21.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, it’s fair. I think more of what we’re gonna have to figure out is, like, how do we screen effectively, like.
269 00:26:22.150 ⇒ 00:26:27.040 Samuel Roberts: Okay, is there a take-home exercise? And they come and do a week of work, paid, you know?
270 00:26:27.130 ⇒ 00:26:29.980 Uttam Kumaran: Or, like… Can we somehow, like.
271 00:26:30.320 ⇒ 00:26:41.139 Uttam Kumaran: maybe we do a mock, like, client presentation, and we do that for every engineer. Even, for example, like, Casey and Mustafa, and not every engineer is, like, presenting to the client, but maybe
272 00:26:41.860 ⇒ 00:26:45.310 Uttam Kumaran: They… maybe that should be, like, part of our interview process, so that
273 00:26:45.820 ⇒ 00:26:50.589 Uttam Kumaran: even if they can do that, then they can do anything less than that, right? Like, so we should maybe consider…
274 00:26:50.590 ⇒ 00:26:51.340 Samuel Roberts: Right, yep.
275 00:26:53.450 ⇒ 00:26:57.479 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, maybe we should consider stuff like that, where we have every engineer
276 00:26:57.760 ⇒ 00:27:01.159 Uttam Kumaran: Do a client demo of something technical.
277 00:27:01.760 ⇒ 00:27:11.889 Uttam Kumaran: So they have to come on, video on, present slides, like, you know, and maybe they don’t ever do it, but, like, they need to be able to do it, you know?
278 00:27:12.040 ⇒ 00:27:19.230 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and they certainly have to understand that that’s, like, what we’re doing as a company, at the very least. Like, even if they’re not giving presentations, they need to understand, like.
279 00:27:19.390 ⇒ 00:27:26.999 Samuel Roberts: oh, if I’m providing info to someone who’s doing a presentation, it needs to be this way. Or if I’m updating Slack, it needs to be… yeah, I think… I think that’s totally right.
280 00:27:29.470 ⇒ 00:27:39.979 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, so do you think, like, as part of, like… we don’t do technicals, but do you think maybe we should do, like, a client presentation aspect to every… even all of our technical hires?
281 00:27:42.920 ⇒ 00:27:53.009 Uttam Kumaran: like, what do you guys think is fair? I mean, because to be honest, like, I also want to do something that’s, like, we’re able to do via… like, we have to have first-round screens that’s, like, probably.
282 00:27:53.010 ⇒ 00:27:53.580 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
283 00:27:53.940 ⇒ 00:27:59.780 Uttam Kumaran: Where we have people record a loom, and we suss a bunch of things out. There’s no way I could have you guys be in, like.
284 00:28:00.510 ⇒ 00:28:05.289 Uttam Kumaran: Because if I start putting applications up, we’re gonna get hundreds and hundreds of people.
285 00:28:05.290 ⇒ 00:28:05.770 Samuel Roberts: That’s true.
286 00:28:05.770 ⇒ 00:28:08.469 Uttam Kumaran: But I have to have a great first-round loom.
287 00:28:08.670 ⇒ 00:28:14.820 Uttam Kumaran: that tests their ability to use Loom, like, communicate remotely, present something.
288 00:28:14.930 ⇒ 00:28:24.319 Uttam Kumaran: And then, I kind of want us to be, like, two interviews. So the second interview, there should be… really, it should be a low amount of people that make it.
289 00:28:24.900 ⇒ 00:28:28.659 Uttam Kumaran: And then of those that make it, it needs to be even another rung of, like.
290 00:28:28.960 ⇒ 00:28:30.409 Uttam Kumaran: What do we test for?
291 00:28:33.980 ⇒ 00:28:34.510 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
292 00:28:34.910 ⇒ 00:28:38.669 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think the Loom presentation side, it’s like, obviously, like.
293 00:28:38.900 ⇒ 00:28:46.110 Samuel Roberts: Maybe we do add something they have to, depending on the role exactly, like, do something somewhat technical at least, and then…
294 00:28:46.220 ⇒ 00:28:47.240 Samuel Roberts: present.
295 00:28:48.190 ⇒ 00:28:53.589 Samuel Roberts: Ask questions, like, get their… get them to give, you know, request information from us if they need it, like…
296 00:28:55.100 ⇒ 00:29:00.640 Samuel Roberts: As if we’re the client, and they’re, you know, missing a piece or something, or need insight into something, or escalating…
297 00:29:00.640 ⇒ 00:29:01.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
298 00:29:01.110 ⇒ 00:29:06.789 Samuel Roberts: to someone else, I don’t know. I’m just trying to think, like, how we can really craft that initial one where it’s like, here’s a thing.
299 00:29:07.750 ⇒ 00:29:12.029 Samuel Roberts: do it, present it in Loom, and then we’ll see how it goes, kind of thing.
300 00:29:12.830 ⇒ 00:29:16.670 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, for the technical, like, people, that’s really…
301 00:29:16.820 ⇒ 00:29:18.719 Awaish Kumar: Easy, like, we can give them
302 00:29:19.010 ⇒ 00:29:25.159 Awaish Kumar: take-home assignment, and they come up with a solution, and they can explain
303 00:29:25.270 ⇒ 00:29:31.980 Awaish Kumar: Their repository, how things are arranged, and what… what they did, what the logic is, whatever, and…
304 00:29:32.280 ⇒ 00:29:34.200 Uttam Kumaran: And you just think that should be all over Loom.
305 00:29:34.200 ⇒ 00:29:36.590 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah. They’re gonna lose.
306 00:29:36.590 ⇒ 00:29:41.199 Samuel Roberts: it’s a good first… if it’s… yeah, as long as it’s not, like, a crazy… you know what I mean? Like, I think there could still be a…
307 00:29:41.780 ⇒ 00:29:44.860 Samuel Roberts: you know, another step of, like, okay, great, but I think that’s it.
308 00:29:44.860 ⇒ 00:29:47.279 Uttam Kumaran: It should be the final step, yeah, I agree.
309 00:29:47.840 ⇒ 00:29:48.530 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
310 00:29:48.730 ⇒ 00:29:54.779 Samuel Roberts: But there could still be something, like, first pass, where, like, it will dissuade people that don’t want to do that kind of work initially, like.
311 00:29:54.780 ⇒ 00:29:55.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
312 00:29:55.460 ⇒ 00:29:59.689 Samuel Roberts: not every… Not every technical person’s gonna even want to do that, like…
313 00:29:59.900 ⇒ 00:30:01.420 Uttam Kumaran: No, and then they should not make it.
314 00:30:01.960 ⇒ 00:30:05.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Exactly, so I think that’s, like, the first step is, like.
315 00:30:05.190 ⇒ 00:30:10.180 Samuel Roberts: If you’re interested, the application is, do this task, send us a loom, kind of thing.
316 00:30:10.980 ⇒ 00:30:11.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
317 00:30:13.080 ⇒ 00:30:18.240 Samuel Roberts: And that will filter a ton that are just, like, not looking for that role, which is good.
318 00:30:18.520 ⇒ 00:30:22.289 Samuel Roberts: And then, yeah, the rest of the process, I think we have to sort out a little bit more there, because, yeah.
319 00:30:22.400 ⇒ 00:30:23.940 Samuel Roberts: But that’s probably a good…
320 00:30:24.130 ⇒ 00:30:24.900 Awaish Kumar: Damn.
321 00:30:25.430 ⇒ 00:30:30.879 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, but honestly, like, maybe the next round should be a technical presentation to the delivery team.
322 00:30:31.390 ⇒ 00:30:32.830 Uttam Kumaran: Because the delivery team is like…
323 00:30:32.830 ⇒ 00:30:33.650 Samuel Roberts: YouTube.
324 00:30:33.810 ⇒ 00:30:37.359 Uttam Kumaran: Because they’re not technical, but also they’re gonna be working with this person.
325 00:30:37.460 ⇒ 00:30:38.330 Uttam Kumaran: So…
326 00:30:38.330 ⇒ 00:30:38.920 Samuel Roberts: Totally.
327 00:30:39.220 ⇒ 00:30:43.490 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe, cause… cause me… I know the three of us can see past, like.
328 00:30:44.070 ⇒ 00:30:56.329 Uttam Kumaran: Because I see the best in all the engineers, like, and I know also we’ve gotten great people who maybe weren’t as good in communicating, and then now they’re great. But, like, it’s the delivery team who’s, like.
329 00:30:56.620 ⇒ 00:31:01.990 Uttam Kumaran: They’re going to be in front of the client delivering this person’s work, so it’s kind of like…
330 00:31:02.260 ⇒ 00:31:04.539 Samuel Roberts: They’re interviewing for their team.
331 00:31:04.620 ⇒ 00:31:09.840 Uttam Kumaran: Ideally, they should be the ones to be like, yeah, this person’s good enough,
332 00:31:09.960 ⇒ 00:31:14.110 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because I think we could always defend engineers, I think three of us
333 00:31:14.310 ⇒ 00:31:26.040 Uttam Kumaran: you know, we know, like, what it’s like to work in as an engineer and then also communicate, so I tend to give a lot of benefit to the doubt, versus… I think they may be like, yeah, I didn’t really get it at all, so maybe it is…
334 00:31:26.040 ⇒ 00:31:33.709 Samuel Roberts: filter, too, because that will understand, like, can they communicate something technical in a way that someone non-technical can understand, even?
335 00:31:34.020 ⇒ 00:31:41.790 Samuel Roberts: Rather than just, like, us watching a loom of them presenting to a fake client and being like, okay, they at least did it, that’s a first step. Was it…
336 00:31:42.460 ⇒ 00:31:44.529 Samuel Roberts: Were they articulate? Could they explain it?
337 00:31:44.880 ⇒ 00:31:48.120 Samuel Roberts: But, like, we’re gonna understand the technical side probably better than…
338 00:31:48.120 ⇒ 00:31:49.090 Awaish Kumar: That’s the…
339 00:31:49.370 ⇒ 00:32:02.459 Awaish Kumar: like, take-home assignment along with a loom, which can basically… can be a short presentation of their work, but then there will be follow-up questions or things like that, like, with the…
340 00:32:03.560 ⇒ 00:32:08.099 Awaish Kumar: the interview after that should be between… like, there should be everyone, like, I…
341 00:32:08.300 ⇒ 00:32:13.659 Awaish Kumar: engineers, delivery person from Bravery, and And they present to both.
342 00:32:14.820 ⇒ 00:32:15.770 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm.
343 00:32:15.770 ⇒ 00:32:16.410 Awaish Kumar: And we can…
344 00:32:16.410 ⇒ 00:32:18.580 Uttam Kumaran: And then what… but what do you think the topic should be?
345 00:32:20.810 ⇒ 00:32:23.050 Awaish Kumar: Like, that take-home assignment is that…
346 00:32:23.050 ⇒ 00:32:24.030 Uttam Kumaran: Oh…
347 00:32:24.030 ⇒ 00:32:24.959 Awaish Kumar: The discussion, like.
348 00:32:24.960 ⇒ 00:32:25.929 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, we need to take photos.
349 00:32:26.720 ⇒ 00:32:28.369 Samuel Roberts: Not that it’s, like, yeah.
350 00:32:28.620 ⇒ 00:32:34.300 Awaish Kumar: And, like, we can decide, like, okay, first 15 minutes, like, delivery team is going to be more talk…
351 00:32:34.490 ⇒ 00:32:42.240 Awaish Kumar: Talkative, and they will just Ask questions, and… and… and…
352 00:32:42.570 ⇒ 00:32:53.530 Awaish Kumar: Figure out how the person is in terms of communication, and then… then we can, like… an engineer can just interview them, and with more technical depth, and… and see…
353 00:32:53.530 ⇒ 00:32:54.210 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
354 00:32:56.340 ⇒ 00:33:02.900 Awaish Kumar: I think we should, like, should not be, like, those companies with 5-6 rounds of interviews, and…
355 00:33:03.620 ⇒ 00:33:10.960 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. And if, yeah, if that technical… even if it’s, like, a technical thing that has, like, a one part, two-part, and that first part is…
356 00:33:11.110 ⇒ 00:33:19.799 Samuel Roberts: You do this, record the loom, you then say, okay, great, do the second part, you’re gonna make a presentation to someone on the delivery team who is not technical, explicitly.
357 00:33:20.560 ⇒ 00:33:26.320 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I would love to close it in 3… 3… rounds.
358 00:33:26.820 ⇒ 00:33:28.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
359 00:33:28.630 ⇒ 00:33:34.759 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that might be… yeah, so if it’s like a take-home part one loom, we screen them and approve it.
360 00:33:34.960 ⇒ 00:33:36.730 Samuel Roberts: Take home part two.
361 00:33:37.030 ⇒ 00:33:43.539 Samuel Roberts: Present to a delivery, non-technical person, and then… that sounds… if that all goes well.
362 00:33:43.670 ⇒ 00:33:50.110 Samuel Roberts: you know, I don’t know if you want to be in the loop on everyone kind of thing, or if, it’s one of us, or, you know, whoever is the, like.
363 00:33:50.310 ⇒ 00:33:57.030 Samuel Roberts: manager that they’ll… you know, I’m not sure where that next third one is, but it could be a number of different things, depending on how you wanna… you wanna do it, but…
364 00:33:58.210 ⇒ 00:34:00.479 Awaish Kumar: And then that’s only 2 in-person meetings.
365 00:34:00.480 ⇒ 00:34:01.300 Samuel Roberts: 2.
366 00:34:05.290 ⇒ 00:34:06.350 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, but one take note.
367 00:34:07.610 ⇒ 00:34:11.630 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, one take-home, like, we could split it, like, make it… And the meeting…
368 00:34:11.750 ⇒ 00:34:16.529 Awaish Kumar: And then a final meeting with maybe… maybe, Utam, you can be the last.
369 00:34:16.530 ⇒ 00:34:17.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
370 00:34:18.000 ⇒ 00:34:18.810 Samuel Roberts: I’m thinking, yeah.
371 00:34:22.260 ⇒ 00:34:23.900 Samuel Roberts: That could be good. Okay. That could be good.
372 00:34:26.489 ⇒ 00:34:30.239 Uttam Kumaran: So let me get… let me take this transcript, and I’ll organize something with Rico.
373 00:34:30.530 ⇒ 00:34:33.899 Uttam Kumaran: And then we can start to put the next class of folks through that.
374 00:34:34.600 ⇒ 00:34:35.440 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
375 00:34:35.790 ⇒ 00:34:44.540 Samuel Roberts: So do we need, like, a few different, like, technical challenges kind of thing for different… or do you want just, like, something that’s, like, broad and, you know, how much they figure out kind of thing?
376 00:34:44.780 ⇒ 00:34:46.159 Awaish Kumar: That’s a challenge, right?
377 00:34:46.850 ⇒ 00:34:47.550 Samuel Roberts: Say that again?
378 00:34:48.179 ⇒ 00:34:58.769 Awaish Kumar: the take-home assignment we are going to give, for example, for an analytics engineer, we are going to give some raw data, some tasks, and then he’s going to build maybe a dbt project.
379 00:34:58.909 ⇒ 00:35:02.999 Awaish Kumar: And models, and, like, that’s the technical challenge, right?
380 00:35:03.000 ⇒ 00:35:03.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
381 00:35:03.580 ⇒ 00:35:05.540 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah, I don’t know why you did that.
382 00:35:05.540 ⇒ 00:35:08.740 Samuel Roberts: A few of those for different roles, or are you thinking we still want people that are, like.
383 00:35:09.010 ⇒ 00:35:12.910 Samuel Roberts: able to be… to learn other things, or how… like, I guess that’s the question, is…
384 00:35:15.140 ⇒ 00:35:18.180 Samuel Roberts: How many of these take-homes do we need to put together?
385 00:35:19.170 ⇒ 00:35:25.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it could be one take-home. It could be, like… ideally, it should just be one repo where we can test
386 00:35:26.140 ⇒ 00:35:27.850 Uttam Kumaran: DE type stuff.
387 00:35:28.690 ⇒ 00:35:29.500 Uttam Kumaran: type stuff.
388 00:35:29.500 ⇒ 00:35:36.970 Awaish Kumar: It will be different for per role, like, for data engineer, it can be different. For analytics engineer, it can be… tasks can be different, right?
389 00:35:40.370 ⇒ 00:35:41.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
390 00:35:41.170 ⇒ 00:35:41.890 Samuel Roberts: activism.
391 00:35:42.060 ⇒ 00:35:45.040 Samuel Roberts: The repo could be, like, one big thing, and they could pick
392 00:35:45.210 ⇒ 00:35:49.019 Samuel Roberts: something to tackle, maybe. And then, well, that’ll even show us what they’re more comfortable with, you know?
393 00:35:51.590 ⇒ 00:35:56.869 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, we don’t want to go too crazy creating a bunch of different, like, tech challenges that we’re gonna have to then…
394 00:35:57.340 ⇒ 00:35:57.990 Samuel Roberts: You know.
395 00:35:58.740 ⇒ 00:35:59.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
396 00:35:59.380 ⇒ 00:36:00.349 Samuel Roberts: What two gets away.
397 00:36:00.540 ⇒ 00:36:14.459 Samuel Roberts: But if you could do one that’s like, here are the three projects you can take on, and maybe we make them a little more focused in different areas, and either we assign it to them and say, do this one, because we think that’s the kind of, you know, role you’re looking for, or we say, pick one and explain why kind of thing, like, maybe that’s another
398 00:36:14.800 ⇒ 00:36:15.460 Samuel Roberts: this.
399 00:36:16.430 ⇒ 00:36:17.270 Samuel Roberts: But yeah, I think.
400 00:36:17.270 ⇒ 00:36:17.620 Uttam Kumaran: I agree.
401 00:36:17.620 ⇒ 00:36:28.650 Samuel Roberts: Like, it’s great to have, like, specific ones, but if we’re trying to get people that, like, maybe can bounce between the multiple things eventually, like, I don’t have a great sense in some of this dbt stuff even, and I want… I want a little bit of that, but… Yeah.
402 00:36:29.200 ⇒ 00:36:30.020 Samuel Roberts: If it’s someone…
403 00:36:30.020 ⇒ 00:36:31.059 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’ll have, we’ll have, like.
404 00:36:31.060 ⇒ 00:36:31.410 Samuel Roberts: men.
405 00:36:31.410 ⇒ 00:36:36.639 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll have engineers with, like, specialty, basically. That way, there’s, like, some minimum threshold.
406 00:36:37.530 ⇒ 00:36:38.170 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
407 00:36:39.910 ⇒ 00:36:40.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
408 00:36:41.350 ⇒ 00:36:41.940 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
409 00:36:43.830 ⇒ 00:36:46.430 Samuel Roberts: I’m probably gonna put something together that has, like… Yeah, go ahead.
410 00:36:46.430 ⇒ 00:36:50.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ll just throw something into a dock, and then we can… Poke at it a bit.
411 00:36:52.140 ⇒ 00:36:53.300 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me.
412 00:36:55.680 ⇒ 00:36:56.200 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
413 00:36:56.200 ⇒ 00:36:56.830 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
414 00:36:57.640 ⇒ 00:36:58.540 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect.
415 00:36:59.260 ⇒ 00:37:01.309 Uttam Kumaran: Alright. Thank you guys.
416 00:37:01.310 ⇒ 00:37:03.349 Samuel Roberts: I’ll send some stuff over Slack. Yeah, thank you.
417 00:37:03.780 ⇒ 00:37:04.400 Samuel Roberts: Sounds good.
418 00:37:05.020 ⇒ 00:37:05.840 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect, thank you.