Meeting Title: OKR Review and Planning Sync Date: 2025-09-04 Meeting participants: Amber Lin, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:09.270 ⇒ 00:00:10.550 Amber Lin: 420?
2 00:00:13.050 ⇒ 00:00:16.580 Amber Lin: What’s the fuck?
3 00:00:20.030 ⇒ 00:00:21.229 Amber Lin: Yo, he’s up.
4 00:00:24.270 ⇒ 00:00:26.030 Amber Lin: 435?
5 00:00:26.530 ⇒ 00:00:27.989 Amber Lin: I’m open to that today?
6 00:00:30.380 ⇒ 00:00:34.189 Amber Lin: Do you want to try and get both? I think that’s a little ambitious for us.
7 00:04:40.670 ⇒ 00:04:42.020 Uttam Kumaran: Hello.
8 00:04:43.960 ⇒ 00:04:45.020 Amber Lin: Hi there!
9 00:04:45.130 ⇒ 00:04:45.949 Amber Lin: How are you?
10 00:04:45.950 ⇒ 00:04:47.170 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?
11 00:04:47.540 ⇒ 00:04:53.100 Amber Lin: Pretty good. I think this week I’ve been having… the projects are…
12 00:04:53.720 ⇒ 00:04:57.019 Amber Lin: manageable, so I’ve been having time to do other stuff.
13 00:04:57.410 ⇒ 00:05:02.549 Amber Lin: Especially the delivery OKRs, that was not…
14 00:05:03.290 ⇒ 00:05:07.220 Amber Lin: I’m actually just looking at it right now. I’m looking at the new comments you added.
15 00:05:07.220 ⇒ 00:05:10.349 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go through it, let me know what you thought, because I looked at it last time.
16 00:05:11.080 ⇒ 00:05:11.740 Amber Lin: Yeah.
17 00:05:11.850 ⇒ 00:05:15.750 Amber Lin: pretty much settled on the remaining OKRs, I think?
18 00:05:15.870 ⇒ 00:05:18.100 Amber Lin: Yeah, let me share screen, absolutely.
19 00:05:18.100 ⇒ 00:05:19.770 Uttam Kumaran: Some of… cause some of them are, like.
20 00:05:20.260 ⇒ 00:05:25.029 Uttam Kumaran: measure this and impact. I think it’s better just to, like, make sure we can measure it.
21 00:05:25.150 ⇒ 00:05:28.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. And then we can talk about impact.
22 00:05:29.000 ⇒ 00:05:30.329 Amber Lin: Yeah.
23 00:05:30.330 ⇒ 00:05:31.210 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
24 00:05:32.120 ⇒ 00:05:35.540 Amber Lin: So, for… this one…
25 00:05:41.360 ⇒ 00:05:55.629 Amber Lin: So, I think the first one makes sense. The PMO assessment is just something that me and Alex want to do. It’s just a pulse check, because we started at the beginning of this quarter, so it’s just a pulse check at the end of the quarter, and then we’ll have a.
26 00:05:55.630 ⇒ 00:05:57.289 Uttam Kumaran: Is that something that, like, you can do…
27 00:05:57.290 ⇒ 00:05:57.870 Amber Lin: Lord.
28 00:05:57.870 ⇒ 00:05:59.580 Uttam Kumaran: Like, with other people?
29 00:06:00.580 ⇒ 00:06:04.600 Amber Lin: Let me check with him on how we want to do that.
30 00:06:04.620 ⇒ 00:06:05.980 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
31 00:06:06.980 ⇒ 00:06:09.839 Amber Lin: Thanks… Thank God.
32 00:06:13.140 ⇒ 00:06:29.080 Amber Lin: So probably it should involve feedback from the different team members, feedback from clients. I think part… similar to part of… we want to ask Zach about how are our communications? I think that could be part of the assessment.
33 00:06:30.690 ⇒ 00:06:31.370 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
34 00:06:31.370 ⇒ 00:06:31.910 Amber Lin: Yeah.
35 00:06:32.460 ⇒ 00:06:37.759 Amber Lin: And then the second one is to make things more scalable,
36 00:06:37.970 ⇒ 00:06:45.970 Amber Lin: how can we measure this? Like, we have action items, but what is the measure that we’re
37 00:06:46.310 ⇒ 00:06:49.670 Amber Lin: Pitting it against, especially with these playbooks.
38 00:06:50.540 ⇒ 00:06:55.839 Uttam Kumaran: Well, this is where, like, for example, for playbooks, I would say, buy playbooks. Like, just pick a number.
39 00:06:56.480 ⇒ 00:06:57.000 Amber Lin: Okay.
40 00:06:57.000 ⇒ 00:07:03.619 Uttam Kumaran: That’s my comment there. Maybe resolve… also, maybe resolve… if there’s any comments that are old here, maybe just resolve them, because I think some of these…
41 00:07:05.320 ⇒ 00:07:06.480 Uttam Kumaran: Or some of these…
42 00:07:07.680 ⇒ 00:07:08.770 Amber Lin: Okay, yeah.
43 00:07:09.490 ⇒ 00:07:17.810 Uttam Kumaran: Like, playbooks, I said, basically, like, okay, just do 5 playbooks. Create and roll out updated PM rituals. My point here was, like.
44 00:07:18.410 ⇒ 00:07:21.439 Uttam Kumaran: Create is a binary. What does rollout mean?
45 00:07:23.040 ⇒ 00:07:26.049 Uttam Kumaran: Right. Rollout is gonna be the harder thing to measure.
46 00:07:26.530 ⇒ 00:07:31.440 Amber Lin: Create me, create to me anytime, like, for other people, they have OKRs where they’re like, create.
47 00:07:31.440 ⇒ 00:07:34.239 Uttam Kumaran: this asset. I’m like, okay, the… the…
48 00:07:34.530 ⇒ 00:07:43.019 Uttam Kumaran: the end… the thing you end up with is you have to have a meeting where everybody approves. Who does everybody? Like, it’s at least gotta be, like, me, Awash, and someone like…
49 00:07:43.140 ⇒ 00:07:48.469 Uttam Kumaran: That’s, like, that’s, like, a great, like, okay, this is created, right? So PM mutuals, broadly.
50 00:07:49.200 ⇒ 00:07:55.950 Uttam Kumaran: I have… I know I’ve read some of it, but I haven’t, like, sat and walked through everything and got it all, like, stamped, right? So that could be a good thing.
51 00:07:55.950 ⇒ 00:07:56.520 Amber Lin: No.
52 00:07:56.770 ⇒ 00:08:03.110 Uttam Kumaran: And then second is, like, adoption is a different thing. So, making sure that everybody does it, we have to find a way to measure that.
53 00:08:08.120 ⇒ 00:08:16.420 Amber Lin: I think for Q3, it’s good to have it all approved, because we only have a month left, and then for Q4, probably we’ll have,
54 00:08:16.700 ⇒ 00:08:22.050 Amber Lin: How to measure… Rollout and adoption.
55 00:08:23.700 ⇒ 00:08:24.370 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
56 00:08:31.950 ⇒ 00:08:37.990 Amber Lin: Yeah, and then for the mid-level PM, are we… I know Justin said yes to the…
57 00:08:38.350 ⇒ 00:08:41.030 Amber Lin: Fractional, when will he be starting?
58 00:08:42.520 ⇒ 00:08:47.239 Uttam Kumaran: He did not say yes, so, yeah, we’re not, we’re, like, nothing’s figured out yet.
59 00:08:47.240 ⇒ 00:08:48.610 Amber Lin: I see, I see, okay.
60 00:08:48.830 ⇒ 00:08:49.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
61 00:08:49.810 ⇒ 00:08:50.600 Amber Lin: Okay.
62 00:08:50.600 ⇒ 00:08:54.230 Uttam Kumaran: So, not sure about that. Yeah, that’s why I was like…
63 00:08:54.390 ⇒ 00:09:00.389 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know what I said here, but I basically said, put recruitment Like, 2 client handoffs?
64 00:09:00.590 ⇒ 00:09:02.909 Uttam Kumaran: I put, like, move… probably moved to…
65 00:09:03.330 ⇒ 00:09:16.549 Uttam Kumaran: Q4, but then the recruitment, like, I just… everybody had some recruitment, so I was like, I’ll just take on all that, because, like, you wanna… you wanna sign up for what’s in… strictly in your control. If you sign up for recruitment, it’s…
66 00:09:17.030 ⇒ 00:09:19.859 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a hundred reasons why it could go wrong, you know?
67 00:09:24.120 ⇒ 00:09:25.130 Amber Lin: Gotcha.
68 00:09:26.650 ⇒ 00:09:31.790 Amber Lin: Resolve… Resolve. Oh…
69 00:09:34.900 ⇒ 00:09:36.070 Amber Lin: Yeah, okay.
70 00:09:39.090 ⇒ 00:09:43.680 Amber Lin: I’ll just say service re… full of…
71 00:09:50.460 ⇒ 00:09:53.229 Amber Lin: Okay, I’ll link it later.
72 00:09:53.770 ⇒ 00:10:10.119 Amber Lin: And then objective 3 is… I saw your comment, so I agree the objective and key result was sort of combined together. Is the objective of improving project margins good, or should we say improve
73 00:10:10.690 ⇒ 00:10:17.299 Amber Lin: Both the margins and visibility, because we don’t really know what our margins are like.
74 00:10:17.400 ⇒ 00:10:18.380 Amber Lin: On the regular basis.
75 00:10:18.380 ⇒ 00:10:24.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, so I guess, like, that’s the thing. If you say, achieve 40% margin, it forces you to measure.
76 00:10:24.640 ⇒ 00:10:25.530 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
77 00:10:25.950 ⇒ 00:10:31.870 Uttam Kumaran: So I think that’s fair, because the ask is going to be every week, what is our… what is our margin sitting at?
78 00:10:32.120 ⇒ 00:10:32.880 Amber Lin: Yeah.
79 00:10:33.410 ⇒ 00:10:35.580 Amber Lin: So… To have…
80 00:10:35.580 ⇒ 00:10:38.679 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that, I feel, is contained. I mean, you could split it up, like.
81 00:10:38.820 ⇒ 00:10:42.420 Uttam Kumaran: figure out how to measure and measure, I don’t know, that seems like kind of semantics.
82 00:10:44.380 ⇒ 00:10:52.249 Uttam Kumaran: Because ultimately, you wanna… we wanna have, like, only, like, 5 or 6 OKRs per team. I think right now we have kind of too much, but I’m okay with it.
83 00:10:52.600 ⇒ 00:10:56.270 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, that’s why Achieve 40% is fine.
84 00:10:57.950 ⇒ 00:10:58.970 Amber Lin: Okay.
85 00:10:59.050 ⇒ 00:10:59.860 Uttam Kumaran: Nope.
86 00:11:00.010 ⇒ 00:11:00.899 Uttam Kumaran: All day.
87 00:11:01.590 ⇒ 00:11:02.690 Uttam Kumaran: We’re like, dear.
88 00:11:02.690 ⇒ 00:11:03.350 Amber Lin: Oh…
89 00:11:22.510 ⇒ 00:11:23.200 Amber Lin: Okay.
90 00:11:23.890 ⇒ 00:11:32.440 Amber Lin: I’m done… I think for the last one, on the engineering efficiency… What…
91 00:11:32.800 ⇒ 00:11:34.830 Amber Lin: Do we do to measure it?
92 00:11:35.420 ⇒ 00:11:42.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but see, like, I put some of these on… on a wish. So, if you go to the engineering OKRs, if you go back to the sheet.
93 00:11:42.530 ⇒ 00:11:44.950 Uttam Kumaran: You can see what’s on the other teams.
94 00:11:44.950 ⇒ 00:11:47.410 Amber Lin: That way, you don’t have to take those on, because again.
95 00:11:47.890 ⇒ 00:11:53.289 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think you… like, if you take on engineering efficiency, what levers can you pull to impact that?
96 00:11:54.370 ⇒ 00:11:55.760 Amber Lin: Yeah, I agree. I think…
97 00:11:55.760 ⇒ 00:11:59.100 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, again, you don’t want to sign up for something where you don’t have, like.
98 00:11:59.100 ⇒ 00:11:59.750 Amber Lin: Yeah.
99 00:11:59.750 ⇒ 00:12:06.810 Uttam Kumaran: But even the reporting, like, everybody whose name is on the OKR has to report on it, so there’s no need for the PM team to own reporting.
100 00:12:08.100 ⇒ 00:12:15.730 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think more of my point is, like, own the objectives where you… can… Report and effect.
101 00:12:16.010 ⇒ 00:12:23.070 Uttam Kumaran: Like, engineering efficiency is a big one, and I don’t… I think the engineering team is the most leveraged to accomplish that.
102 00:12:23.790 ⇒ 00:12:29.190 Amber Lin: Okay, but they would… I guess thinking about that, then, what…
103 00:12:29.400 ⇒ 00:12:33.190 Amber Lin: the areas that I can affect is, okay, tickets…
104 00:12:33.320 ⇒ 00:12:38.919 Amber Lin: to nudge the engineers to have estimates on tickets. So that’s requirements during planning.
105 00:12:39.300 ⇒ 00:12:47.420 Amber Lin: The part… the part I can impact is, okay, midweek, what do we push out? And then… .
106 00:12:48.130 ⇒ 00:12:53.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess, like, this is… this is how I would think about it. One is, like, you want to make sure that,
107 00:12:54.460 ⇒ 00:12:56.109 Uttam Kumaran: Look, let’s take the first example.
108 00:12:56.230 ⇒ 00:13:04.630 Uttam Kumaran: you don’t necessarily need to be, like, I own engineering efficiency, but you can say what one driver of efficiency is the fact that tickets are well-groomed.
109 00:13:04.770 ⇒ 00:13:05.770 Amber Lin: Right.
110 00:13:05.770 ⇒ 00:13:17.189 Uttam Kumaran: So one OKR could be, given your assumption that, like, hey, if we point everything, our efficiency’s gonna go up, so the goal is point everything, right? So that’s why one of the top goals here is 90% of whatever, right?
111 00:13:17.360 ⇒ 00:13:22.920 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s fine. Like, owning engineering efficiency overall, like, that’s why if you go… if you open the OKRs.
112 00:13:24.140 ⇒ 00:13:29.130 Uttam Kumaran: Take a look at what Awash has on his… On his plate.
113 00:13:29.260 ⇒ 00:13:32.099 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you’ll see kind of, like, what’s already covered.
114 00:13:39.680 ⇒ 00:13:42.480 Uttam Kumaran: This is proposed. I would go to active.
115 00:13:45.080 ⇒ 00:13:51.680 Uttam Kumaran: So ensure 50% of tickets are completed before due date, ship data quality signals dashboard.
116 00:13:51.800 ⇒ 00:13:54.509 Uttam Kumaran: So this is all the ones that he has on his plate.
117 00:13:55.790 ⇒ 00:13:59.019 Uttam Kumaran: So you can see, I don’t… I did… what I didn’t put on him is, like.
118 00:13:59.360 ⇒ 00:14:06.370 Uttam Kumaran: Tickets need to be well-groomed. I put on him that tickets happen on time, and they’re estimated appropriately. That’s what is in his control.
119 00:14:08.900 ⇒ 00:14:12.350 Uttam Kumaran: But he can’t control the fact that, like, they get created well.
120 00:14:12.880 ⇒ 00:14:17.209 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, he can’t control the fact that, like, they exist.
121 00:14:17.290 ⇒ 00:14:20.780 Amber Lin: And they’re organized, right? Like, that’s what the PM team has to do.
122 00:14:21.300 ⇒ 00:14:22.310 Amber Lin: I see.
123 00:14:22.660 ⇒ 00:14:24.790 Amber Lin: So… .
124 00:14:24.790 ⇒ 00:14:27.420 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, that seems covered in Objective 1, like, why…
125 00:14:27.420 ⇒ 00:14:27.820 Amber Lin: Yeah.
126 00:14:27.820 ⇒ 00:14:30.320 Uttam Kumaran: Why are you concerned with duplicating? Yeah.
127 00:14:30.700 ⇒ 00:14:35.560 Amber Lin: Yeah, I agree. Even with finance, so we keep visibility
128 00:14:35.930 ⇒ 00:14:42.430 Amber Lin: Like, we need to build out that view. Is that something that I would own? Because I can’t create it.
129 00:14:43.230 ⇒ 00:14:46.369 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but that’s the thing, like, I… I would say, like.
130 00:14:46.590 ⇒ 00:14:50.510 Uttam Kumaran: Again, go back to, like, you’re owning the fact that we hit 40%.
131 00:14:50.950 ⇒ 00:14:57.450 Uttam Kumaran: So, I wouldn’t take on, like, a finance dashboard. I would take on, are we at 40%, yes or no?
132 00:14:58.020 ⇒ 00:15:04.000 Uttam Kumaran: If you have to build… if we have to improve revenue costs in order to accomplish that, sure, but, like.
133 00:15:04.270 ⇒ 00:15:08.190 Uttam Kumaran: I wouldn’t take… you don’t want to take on OKRs that are, like, so broad, like.
134 00:15:08.880 ⇒ 00:15:12.230 Uttam Kumaran: develop weekly report on finance. Like, it’s too broad.
135 00:15:12.430 ⇒ 00:15:16.859 Uttam Kumaran: You will have to develop something to hit your 40% okay on.
136 00:15:17.950 ⇒ 00:15:23.630 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, finance broadly, like, that goes on me, and then that goes on Leo Luma, like, the financing.
137 00:15:25.480 ⇒ 00:15:27.889 Uttam Kumaran: But, again, like, I think…
138 00:15:28.750 ⇒ 00:15:32.149 Uttam Kumaran: these, these, like, I don’t know what comment that I put on here, like, yeah, so…
139 00:15:32.580 ⇒ 00:15:37.350 Uttam Kumaran: I said, like, these are probably fine, but these more feel like the OKR should be…
140 00:15:37.540 ⇒ 00:15:40.860 Uttam Kumaran: Produce this every week for 6 weeks.
141 00:15:40.860 ⇒ 00:15:41.760 Amber Lin: Yeah.
142 00:15:41.760 ⇒ 00:15:45.020 Uttam Kumaran: Like, not just, like, create this, right?
143 00:15:45.740 ⇒ 00:15:52.829 Uttam Kumaran: or present this every week for 6 weeks. Because ultimately, like, these are, these are, like.
144 00:15:53.030 ⇒ 00:16:00.960 Uttam Kumaran: these are functions of our Monday meeting. It’s, like, presenting the engineering efficiency dashboard, presenting the finance dashboard, right? So…
145 00:16:01.310 ⇒ 00:16:06.109 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if, like, the OKR is either, like, Make sure they’re created.
146 00:16:06.410 ⇒ 00:16:10.250 Uttam Kumaran: Or, like, present them for, like, every week this quarter.
147 00:16:10.650 ⇒ 00:16:11.250 Amber Lin: Quest.
148 00:16:11.590 ⇒ 00:16:18.709 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… those are, like, more effective than just, like, produce this Tuesday, you know.
149 00:16:18.710 ⇒ 00:16:19.890 Amber Lin: Yeah, I agree.
150 00:16:20.960 ⇒ 00:16:22.490 Amber Lin: Boom.
151 00:16:25.560 ⇒ 00:16:28.520 Amber Lin: So I have to slim these down…
152 00:16:31.870 ⇒ 00:16:40.290 Amber Lin: So, is key result achieving the 40% margin, or is that objective?
153 00:16:40.290 ⇒ 00:16:41.579 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the key results.
154 00:16:42.050 ⇒ 00:16:43.290 Amber Lin: I see.
155 00:16:43.290 ⇒ 00:16:48.529 Uttam Kumaran: So the objective can be the same thing, though. Like, the objective is loose, the key results have to be measurable.
156 00:16:49.310 ⇒ 00:16:55.840 Uttam Kumaran: So, the objective can be this, right? Can be 40% margin, and the KR… one of the KRs can be the same thing.
157 00:16:56.020 ⇒ 00:16:57.340 Amber Lin: Mmm.
158 00:16:57.340 ⇒ 00:16:58.450 Uttam Kumaran: Doesn’t really matter.
159 00:16:59.570 ⇒ 00:17:04.309 Uttam Kumaran: Right, because our objective could be to be a high-margin company, I don’t care, those are the same things, right?
160 00:17:07.079 ⇒ 00:17:09.550 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I had a record with somebody who bought me, I’m telling you.
161 00:17:10.589 ⇒ 00:17:13.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I think it speaks for itself.
162 00:17:14.060 ⇒ 00:17:16.590 Amber Lin: I see. I like that, that’s a lot cleaner.
163 00:17:16.780 ⇒ 00:17:17.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
164 00:17:17.380 ⇒ 00:17:20.220 Amber Lin: Scalable delivery capacity.
165 00:17:22.990 ⇒ 00:17:28.430 Amber Lin: Even… I think the playbooks is good as a key result.
166 00:17:28.870 ⇒ 00:17:41.620 Amber Lin: Think… For the PM team, this should get… like…
167 00:17:43.030 ⇒ 00:17:48.319 Amber Lin: I want to clean that up a little bit more, the PM rituals…
168 00:17:48.480 ⇒ 00:17:57.429 Amber Lin: playbooks, or, say, heavy or light delivery cadences? Like, what is something that’s more measurable on that end, then?
169 00:17:59.110 ⇒ 00:17:59.700 Amber Lin: Excellent.
170 00:17:59.700 ⇒ 00:18:03.370 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, anything where there’s a delivery, it should be created and approved, right?
171 00:18:03.490 ⇒ 00:18:04.210 Uttam Kumaran: like, create.
172 00:18:04.210 ⇒ 00:18:04.790 Amber Lin: important.
173 00:18:04.790 ⇒ 00:18:08.020 Uttam Kumaran: Create it, hold a cross-functional meeting to approve, and then…
174 00:18:08.040 ⇒ 00:18:09.520 Amber Lin: Consider it done.
175 00:18:10.200 ⇒ 00:18:12.300 Uttam Kumaran: This is just the thing where it’s like.
176 00:18:13.180 ⇒ 00:18:15.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I think those are fine.
177 00:18:17.790 ⇒ 00:18:21.180 Uttam Kumaran: You just want to make it so it’s, like, measurable, and it’s, like.
178 00:18:21.650 ⇒ 00:18:21.990 Amber Lin: It’s.
179 00:18:21.990 ⇒ 00:18:23.519 Uttam Kumaran: Really what matters, like.
180 00:18:23.710 ⇒ 00:18:28.349 Uttam Kumaran: The goal should be, if we… if we hit all these, we’re in a dramatically different place.
181 00:18:28.880 ⇒ 00:18:32.569 Uttam Kumaran: So you don’t want to put stuff here that are, like, we’re doing anyways, right? Like…
182 00:18:32.980 ⇒ 00:18:37.649 Uttam Kumaran: Wake up in the morning, it’s not like a… Great key results all.
183 00:18:38.350 ⇒ 00:18:38.950 Amber Lin: Huh.
184 00:18:38.950 ⇒ 00:18:44.020 Uttam Kumaran: If the one thing holding us back is solidifying these documents, then that’s what we need to do.
185 00:18:49.620 ⇒ 00:18:54.389 Amber Lin: I think it’s playbooks to implement a project initiation.
186 00:18:54.750 ⇒ 00:19:00.379 Amber Lin: This is really loose. And Ellie, for example, Ellie started without… with nothing.
187 00:19:00.630 ⇒ 00:19:08.419 Amber Lin: So it took a… I had to go in and then set it up, and I want that to get set up at initiation.
188 00:19:09.700 ⇒ 00:19:15.699 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but I guess what I would say is, like, pick an area, pick the… like, break it down further, and pick
189 00:19:15.860 ⇒ 00:19:20.869 Uttam Kumaran: Pick one area to, like, solve, which is, like, every client, every new client.
190 00:19:21.100 ⇒ 00:19:24.130 Uttam Kumaran: If one thing here is initiation, you can say every new client
191 00:19:24.290 ⇒ 00:19:29.170 Uttam Kumaran: Follows the initiation steps within the first 7 days of signing.
192 00:19:29.470 ⇒ 00:19:30.150 Amber Lin: Mmm.
193 00:19:30.150 ⇒ 00:19:32.410 Uttam Kumaran: That way, it’s, like, a lot slimmer.
194 00:19:32.880 ⇒ 00:19:37.959 Uttam Kumaran: then… Complete and, like, use the entire playbook.
195 00:19:38.110 ⇒ 00:19:47.410 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna say, like, look, we can’t… maybe we can’t do that, but, like, if we can just make sure that every client goes through the initiation process, then that’s fine, right?
196 00:19:50.730 ⇒ 00:19:54.559 Uttam Kumaran: I would say think about what the most crucial thing we need done is.
197 00:19:55.290 ⇒ 00:20:04.099 Uttam Kumaran: And right now, I’m not putting a cap on the number, but I think for next quarter, I will. So I will put a cap on, like, hey, everybody can only take, like, max of 5.
198 00:20:04.370 ⇒ 00:20:07.309 Uttam Kumaran: Minimum of 3 or something, because I want to make it, like.
199 00:20:07.380 ⇒ 00:20:11.760 Amber Lin: We want all of these to be green, like, we don’t want it to be, like.
200 00:20:11.760 ⇒ 00:20:12.960 Uttam Kumaran: a stretch.
201 00:20:13.770 ⇒ 00:20:18.299 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think this is… This is their,
202 00:20:19.130 ⇒ 00:20:24.869 Amber Lin: I think a part of the playbooks is… it relates to the…
203 00:20:25.050 ⇒ 00:20:33.520 Amber Lin: this key result of 100% projects has PM plans and project roadmaps. I can change that to initiations. I don’t think…
204 00:20:33.670 ⇒ 00:20:39.710 Amber Lin: Because we already have project management, like, SOPs.
205 00:20:40.930 ⇒ 00:20:41.990 Amber Lin: I would…
206 00:20:41.990 ⇒ 00:20:43.229 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think that…
207 00:20:43.230 ⇒ 00:20:44.700 Amber Lin: about it, and then…
208 00:20:45.120 ⇒ 00:20:47.630 Uttam Kumaran: You also don’t need to have 3 objectives.
209 00:20:47.730 ⇒ 00:20:49.030 Amber Lin: I agree.
210 00:20:49.430 ⇒ 00:20:58.510 Uttam Kumaran: Right, but it’s more about, like, for example, I want to know this week, on the top four, like, how far off are we? Like, what projects don’t have plans and roadmaps?
211 00:20:59.730 ⇒ 00:21:04.269 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, what is that number? Is that 60%, the top number, or is it at 80%?
212 00:21:04.270 ⇒ 00:21:05.940 Amber Lin: So these are the things where, like.
213 00:21:07.470 ⇒ 00:21:15.429 Uttam Kumaran: you can accomplish the… the… you can accomplish the objective in many different ways, you just want your key result to be, like, forcing function, right? So…
214 00:21:15.950 ⇒ 00:21:18.880 Uttam Kumaran: 100% of projects have PM plans or project roadmaps.
215 00:21:19.010 ⇒ 00:21:29.649 Uttam Kumaran: That means that at any moment within one week, because of the cycles of reporting on this OKR one week, everything should have those, right? Which means any new clients should be initiated.
216 00:21:29.970 ⇒ 00:21:30.800 Amber Lin: It’s a lot.
217 00:21:30.800 ⇒ 00:21:34.760 Uttam Kumaran: Like, if we get to a Monday meeting, and there are two clients that were new on Wednesday.
218 00:21:35.370 ⇒ 00:21:42.120 Uttam Kumaran: We should be able to, like, we have to be able to report that, like, okay, these are gonna have, by the next follow-up meeting, 100%
219 00:21:42.360 ⇒ 00:21:44.219 Uttam Kumaran: Are gonna have these project plans, right?
220 00:21:44.790 ⇒ 00:21:50.959 Uttam Kumaran: But again, if you think we need to go deeper on the initiation part, then you just focus on that, that can be its own key result.
221 00:21:54.150 ⇒ 00:21:59.400 Amber Lin: I see, I hear you. Tickets…
222 00:22:03.960 ⇒ 00:22:05.040 Amber Lin: Yannon.
223 00:22:05.380 ⇒ 00:22:12.489 Amber Lin: Based on… reflecting on your point, then this point of 80% of planned tickets are completed in the sprint designated.
224 00:22:12.490 ⇒ 00:22:12.980 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
225 00:22:12.980 ⇒ 00:22:20.050 Amber Lin: The part I can affect is with planning, the part I cannot affect is with engineering velocity.
226 00:22:20.390 ⇒ 00:22:23.139 Amber Lin: So… I think I…
227 00:22:23.140 ⇒ 00:22:23.900 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm.
228 00:22:23.900 ⇒ 00:22:31.980 Amber Lin: Into something about… planning… Is within everybody’s allocations.
229 00:22:32.220 ⇒ 00:22:34.210 Amber Lin: Like, that would be something that…
230 00:22:34.210 ⇒ 00:22:34.840 Uttam Kumaran: I could…
231 00:22:34.840 ⇒ 00:22:37.299 Amber Lin: control, versus things get completely.
232 00:22:37.300 ⇒ 00:22:37.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
233 00:22:37.930 ⇒ 00:22:40.520 Amber Lin: Control how engineers complete things.
234 00:22:41.220 ⇒ 00:22:50.679 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so 80% of planned tickets are completed in the sprint as a meeting. Well, but, like, this is… I guess I would push back. I would say that…
235 00:22:51.340 ⇒ 00:22:53.550 Uttam Kumaran: If you… if your plan…
236 00:22:55.120 ⇒ 00:23:04.670 Uttam Kumaran: like, if your planning is so… is not good enough, and we’re only accomplishing 20%, then, like, I don’t think that’s entirely, like, an engineering thing, right?
237 00:23:05.330 ⇒ 00:23:08.529 Uttam Kumaran: So, maybe you should have an expectation of some slip.
238 00:23:09.260 ⇒ 00:23:14.190 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And maybe that slip is… 30%, where you’re like.
239 00:23:14.410 ⇒ 00:23:18.099 Uttam Kumaran: 30% of the stuff we plan on doesn’t hit, and that’s, like, that’s okay.
240 00:23:18.890 ⇒ 00:23:22.659 Amber Lin: Yeah, I agree. I want to change the wording so that.
241 00:23:22.660 ⇒ 00:23:26.250 Uttam Kumaran: Sure. So the goal isn’t 100. I don’t think 100 is reasonable.
242 00:23:26.250 ⇒ 00:23:26.970 Amber Lin: Yeah.
243 00:23:27.530 ⇒ 00:23:31.280 Amber Lin: Okay.
244 00:23:31.280 ⇒ 00:23:38.950 Uttam Kumaran: Changing that into… So there’s always… there’s gonna… but this is where it’s gonna force the conversation of, like, okay, let’s say one week it’s at 40%, what happens?
245 00:23:39.230 ⇒ 00:23:51.799 Uttam Kumaran: well, we had a bunch of ad hoc, or we overestimated. Okay, that forces us. But if we’re, like, at any moment we’re okay with, like, being 30% accurate, being 70% accurate, I’m fine with that, because there’s always going to be movement.
246 00:23:53.330 ⇒ 00:23:54.830 Uttam Kumaran: I…
247 00:23:55.800 ⇒ 00:24:04.000 Uttam Kumaran: So, but again, the benefit is, like, you should find out right now, is this, like, 20%, is this 50%? And then, we don’t need to achieve 100.
248 00:24:15.650 ⇒ 00:24:16.400 Amber Lin: Okay.
249 00:24:17.200 ⇒ 00:24:20.200 Amber Lin: So, that’s an activity.
250 00:24:21.310 ⇒ 00:24:29.130 Amber Lin: And the fact… 100% of client projects receive updates weekly.
251 00:24:29.420 ⇒ 00:24:33.540 Amber Lin: That’s something that we’re currently doing. I think we’re at…
252 00:24:34.900 ⇒ 00:24:43.070 Amber Lin: I know I do it for all my projects, but if we’re measuring delivery, do you think this is something
253 00:24:43.370 ⇒ 00:24:45.500 Amber Lin: Knew that we should aim for?
254 00:24:48.080 ⇒ 00:24:50.250 Amber Lin: Or should I put it in the AORs?
255 00:24:51.540 ⇒ 00:24:54.010 Uttam Kumaran: I would… I don’t know, like…
256 00:24:54.350 ⇒ 00:24:58.020 Uttam Kumaran: Do you think this quarter, every week, we’ve done it for all clients?
257 00:24:58.240 ⇒ 00:25:00.850 Amber Lin: I’ve done it for all of my clients.
258 00:25:01.230 ⇒ 00:25:05.910 Amber Lin: And default and interlude, now that I’ve been watching it.
259 00:25:06.100 ⇒ 00:25:10.410 Amber Lin: I believe we have been sending them, I don’t know if we’re pool parts.
260 00:25:11.250 ⇒ 00:25:12.450 Uttam Kumaran: I guess this is where, like.
261 00:25:12.450 ⇒ 00:25:13.170 Amber Lin: other ones.
262 00:25:13.170 ⇒ 00:25:15.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess this is where…
263 00:25:15.250 ⇒ 00:25:21.459 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t know, I’m not 100% confident that this has… this thing has happened for the last 2 weeks, or 3 weeks.
264 00:25:21.950 ⇒ 00:25:26.930 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think, like… but, like, again, I’m fine with this being an on-track OKR.
265 00:25:26.930 ⇒ 00:25:27.330 Amber Lin: -
266 00:25:27.330 ⇒ 00:25:35.030 Uttam Kumaran: But until this becomes a habit, I don’t want to get rid of it, because the next OKR is gonna be every client meeting gets a…
267 00:25:35.090 ⇒ 00:25:39.510 Amber Lin: follow-up summary, Slack or email, right?
268 00:25:39.800 ⇒ 00:25:43.690 Uttam Kumaran: So, naturally, I want to start to build these habits of, like, okay, at least
269 00:25:45.000 ⇒ 00:25:53.330 Uttam Kumaran: at the start of the sprint, right? What are our key communications? Like, kickoff sprint, retro, post-meeting, and end of week, right?
270 00:25:53.550 ⇒ 00:26:02.180 Uttam Kumaran: Those are the… those are the things I want to see happen for every client all the time. I don’t think we’re… we’re there, right? But, like, we have to knock down one at a time.
271 00:26:03.410 ⇒ 00:26:04.090 Amber Lin: Yeah.
272 00:26:10.620 ⇒ 00:26:11.960 Amber Lin: Sounds good.
273 00:26:18.130 ⇒ 00:26:19.120 Amber Lin: You have to go off the bed.
274 00:26:19.980 ⇒ 00:26:20.840 Amber Lin: Okay.
275 00:26:21.480 ⇒ 00:26:30.419 Amber Lin: This is helpful, and then on the AORs, I think… I think we mostly… Agree on these.
276 00:26:31.790 ⇒ 00:26:35.409 Amber Lin: Not much.
277 00:26:35.810 ⇒ 00:26:44.419 Amber Lin: Yeah, I’ll update the… I’ll work with ChatGBT on this a little bit more. I want to think about it a bit. I learned a few things this meeting, and then…
278 00:26:44.880 ⇒ 00:26:49.369 Amber Lin: I’ll update the proposed OKRs, and you can go take a look there.
279 00:26:50.140 ⇒ 00:26:53.030 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, yeah, I mean, I think that my sort of, like.
280 00:26:53.320 ⇒ 00:26:58.210 Uttam Kumaran: feedback is just make sure that you can accomplish them all, and I will challenge you if there are
281 00:26:58.370 ⇒ 00:26:59.890 Uttam Kumaran: If they’re ambitious enough.
282 00:27:00.500 ⇒ 00:27:07.929 Uttam Kumaran: don’t worry, I’m not gonna… like, there are… we’re not gonna accomplish most of this stuff, I already know. But, like, I would say focus more on…
283 00:27:07.930 ⇒ 00:27:08.490 Amber Lin: I’ll tell that.
284 00:27:08.490 ⇒ 00:27:16.799 Uttam Kumaran: making sure that what you sign up for can get hit, I will pull the other way, which is, like, I think we’re gonna… that’s gonna be easy, we should do more.
285 00:27:16.950 ⇒ 00:27:19.880 Uttam Kumaran: For the most part, we’re, I think.
286 00:27:20.240 ⇒ 00:27:24.950 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we’re… we’re probably gonna hit, like, 50% of them, and then for next quarter.
287 00:27:25.070 ⇒ 00:27:28.129 Uttam Kumaran: we can… I think we should be in a little bit of a better spot.
288 00:27:33.440 ⇒ 00:27:45.639 Uttam Kumaran: And then, you know, basically overall, I think we can also start to… we can start to, like… each individual team can start to break up. For example, your name is on these OKRs, but if you want to start to say Rico.
289 00:27:45.760 ⇒ 00:27:56.219 Uttam Kumaran: I need your help for one of these, you can start to get us help, but I… at my level, I need one person per sort of division. Like, that’s why on engineering.
290 00:27:56.360 ⇒ 00:28:03.079 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna tell Awash, like, get help from everybody to do this, but, like, he is the… I can’t… I… he’s the one that…
291 00:28:03.430 ⇒ 00:28:13.229 Uttam Kumaran: I have to go to to say, is it being done or not? So that’s why it’s, like, within teams, as, like, PM team starts to go from, like, just you to now, it’ll become 3 people.
292 00:28:13.580 ⇒ 00:28:16.229 Uttam Kumaran: The team’s… these are the team’s objectives.
293 00:28:16.390 ⇒ 00:28:18.740 Uttam Kumaran: But there’s one person leading, right?
294 00:28:27.080 ⇒ 00:28:30.549 Amber Lin: Awesome. I’ll update these…
295 00:28:31.540 ⇒ 00:28:45.439 Amber Lin: I was… I was looking at our calendar. We have a one-on-one tomorrow. Is there anything you want to discuss there? We can also talk… just talk now, and then wrap that… I can cancel the meeting tomorrow.
296 00:28:45.820 ⇒ 00:28:51.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess I wanted to talk about, like, I guess, like, a couple things. The one on the.
297 00:28:51.910 ⇒ 00:28:57.809 Uttam Kumaran: On the… maybe, like, update on the Justin piece. So, I think Justin is our guy, like…
298 00:28:59.060 ⇒ 00:29:07.649 Uttam Kumaran: He was really, really great. I drove about 2 hours to go see him, and we had a great conversation, I think…
299 00:29:07.920 ⇒ 00:29:19.620 Uttam Kumaran: he’s, like, the person we need. I don’t know, I haven’t been… as you know, I’m not, like, super easily impressed. Also, I don’t, like, I don’t know, I feel like when I think about, like, Bar Razor.
300 00:29:19.940 ⇒ 00:29:26.929 Uttam Kumaran: Like, he’s one of the few people we’ve interviewed recently who I really feel like that, and I think our vibes mesh a lot.
301 00:29:26.930 ⇒ 00:29:27.270 Amber Lin: Yeah.
302 00:29:28.840 ⇒ 00:29:46.770 Uttam Kumaran: Like, so I… I want to find a way to bring him. I also… but I asked him a couple things. So, one, I think he’s definitely, like… we wanted someone who could just come in and plug in as PM, and sort of, like… I think he’s… he can do that, but I think he wants to sort of also lead in some way, whether it’s
303 00:29:47.050 ⇒ 00:29:48.970 Uttam Kumaran: leading PMs, whether it’s, like.
304 00:29:49.310 ⇒ 00:30:00.990 Uttam Kumaran: bleeding in some other way, I don’t know. So there’s… we’ll have to figure that out long-term, but also he’s not, like, in a super rush. So he was open to starting with us fractionally and then growing it to something where
305 00:30:00.990 ⇒ 00:30:10.829 Uttam Kumaran: you know, he could come on full-time, we can afford him. The other thing, he was actually very, very open to doing, like, performance-based, like, pay and milestones, which I think
306 00:30:11.270 ⇒ 00:30:14.890 Uttam Kumaran: as a company overall, I’m also super interested in, like, I want…
307 00:30:15.320 ⇒ 00:30:31.199 Uttam Kumaran: like, I want to either tie it to OKRs or tie it to some other performance where, like, if he comes in and manages 4 clients in some time, and then he should be able to unlock more money, and I think that should happen across the company. Like, I think I’ve told you that that’s what I’m sort of hopeful that we can do eventually, and I think
308 00:30:31.600 ⇒ 00:30:46.010 Uttam Kumaran: Alongside you, him, there’s… there’s a… like, I think those… that’s something we can architect, where the best people get paid more, and the worst people don’t get paid as much. And, like, I want to start… so I think he has a similar philosophy on that as well, which is really great.
309 00:30:46.150 ⇒ 00:30:48.469 Uttam Kumaran: So I think, you know, I was kind of like.
310 00:30:48.570 ⇒ 00:30:55.829 Uttam Kumaran: I was bummed that he… that, like, we can’t immediately afford him, but because he’s open to come on fractionally, and it seems like he’s also open
311 00:30:55.910 ⇒ 00:31:13.730 Uttam Kumaran: to do that, like, during business hours, I think this has a really good chance of working out. I sent you, in Notion, sort of, like, a document I wrote, which is, like, a milestone kind of based, like, fractional plan. I’m gonna… yeah, I’m gonna talk to…
312 00:31:15.530 ⇒ 00:31:15.900 Amber Lin: What is…
313 00:31:15.900 ⇒ 00:31:20.499 Uttam Kumaran: Alex, about… If you just search for fractional PM, something should show up.
314 00:31:20.500 ⇒ 00:31:21.030 Amber Lin: Oh.
315 00:31:24.830 ⇒ 00:31:25.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
316 00:31:26.700 ⇒ 00:31:37.030 Uttam Kumaran: So, I… I just whipped this up, but I’m gonna brainstorm this with Alex later, and then… but, like, I would love to see your comments here on, like, what you would want to see from someone that’s…
317 00:31:37.030 ⇒ 00:31:40.059 Amber Lin: If he comes on for 10 to 15 hours a week.
318 00:31:40.180 ⇒ 00:31:42.030 Uttam Kumaran: What would you want to see from him?
319 00:31:43.390 ⇒ 00:31:50.419 Uttam Kumaran: assume this is, like, 10 to 15 hours, and this is, like, these are actual, like, PM expectations, what would you want to see from him?
320 00:31:50.590 ⇒ 00:31:53.559 Uttam Kumaran: I would lo- and I would like your feedback, because
321 00:31:53.890 ⇒ 00:32:05.209 Uttam Kumaran: his goal, one of his goals listed there is to directly affect your time, and so it’s important that, like, what we wrote there is… is, like, would be really helpful.
322 00:32:05.320 ⇒ 00:32:09.529 Uttam Kumaran: I have a feeling he’s gonna have no problems with that, because he’s… he’s really good.
323 00:32:09.630 ⇒ 00:32:22.490 Uttam Kumaran: But I just want to confirm. And then also, like, anything higher level that you want his help with, like, I certainly think that he could be a great person to start to give feedback, and almost do, like, game tape reviews of, like, watching stand-ups, like, doing
324 00:32:22.840 ⇒ 00:32:35.500 Uttam Kumaran: that I think because Alex is not available, like, during the day, and also, Alex is always going to be this, like, high-level advisor. I don’t think… I never… I don’t think it’s a good use of his time to sort of give this, like, super specific feedback.
325 00:32:35.500 ⇒ 00:32:41.909 Amber Lin: Yeah, and I tried to ask for super specific feedback, and it wasn’t that specific, because he’s just not.
326 00:32:41.910 ⇒ 00:32:42.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like…
327 00:32:43.360 ⇒ 00:32:57.860 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly, like, Alex is at a level where he’s… he’s like, oh, I didn’t… he’s not… at his level, like, he’s talking about, like, broad project management, and, like, really some higher level complexity, getting his feedback on stand-ups, although it could be useful.
328 00:32:57.880 ⇒ 00:33:16.449 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not a good use of this time. For Justin, I would want that. Or I want him to give, like, very low-level feedback on, like, the kind of some of the things I do, which is, like, how should… how should you literally format, like, Slack updates? Like, how do you make sure that communication is great? How do you run these… like, he should be the go-to for that.
329 00:33:18.020 ⇒ 00:33:27.230 Uttam Kumaran: And so anything that you think you need to call out on that front here should be great. And then I roughly think, like, yeah, you should come on and be able to take two clients.
330 00:33:27.630 ⇒ 00:33:30.919 Uttam Kumaran: Most of our clients are… most of our clients are all remote.
331 00:33:31.320 ⇒ 00:33:41.980 Uttam Kumaran: most of our clients are not getting communicated with enough anyways, so… and, like, our team is really flexible timing-wise. Apart from me, people can meet really early or really late, so…
332 00:33:42.480 ⇒ 00:33:45.370 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t see why what we’re offering is unreasonable.
333 00:33:45.480 ⇒ 00:33:51.780 Uttam Kumaran: Just put in there if you have anything, like, stretched that you want him to try to… accomplish.
334 00:33:52.000 ⇒ 00:33:52.970 Amber Lin: Yeah, okay.
335 00:33:53.090 ⇒ 00:34:04.469 Amber Lin: I think branching off of that, because I know one of the goals you have for him is to take over, to reduce my time on project management, I want to ask you what the next steps is
336 00:34:04.610 ⇒ 00:34:08.150 Amber Lin: After we reduce, say, my project management time.
337 00:34:09.000 ⇒ 00:34:14.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, well, this is where, right now, I would say, as you mentioned in the past year, like.
338 00:34:14.260 ⇒ 00:34:19.760 Uttam Kumaran: you’re probably at, like, 90% to 100% capacity, or more, right? That’s, like, kind of, like, what I heard today. It’s like…
339 00:34:19.920 ⇒ 00:34:25.059 Uttam Kumaran: In and out. So, one, I want to get you closer to, like, 50-60% PM.
340 00:34:25.060 ⇒ 00:34:27.530 Amber Lin: And then the rest of your time can go to start.
341 00:34:27.650 ⇒ 00:34:32.450 Uttam Kumaran: focusing on chief of Staff-related stuff. Like, your capacity is really high.
342 00:34:32.600 ⇒ 00:34:38.729 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know whether with just him and Rico, we can offload every client at this point.
343 00:34:39.100 ⇒ 00:34:44.839 Amber Lin: I don’t think it will happen, but it’s okay. I think right now, I can…
344 00:34:45.110 ⇒ 00:34:46.460 Amber Lin: I think after I…
345 00:34:46.460 ⇒ 00:34:52.839 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, let’s say, like, for example, if you just had Eden and ABC, and you weren’t working on, like.
346 00:34:53.350 ⇒ 00:34:53.810 Amber Lin: Aye.
347 00:34:53.810 ⇒ 00:34:58.590 Uttam Kumaran: you weren’t, like, having to run the PM function, like, how much time do you think you would get back per week?
348 00:34:59.340 ⇒ 00:35:04.550 Amber Lin: Eden takes about 10 hours, ABC takes about 5.
349 00:35:06.410 ⇒ 00:35:19.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so that’s it, right? But then, the rest of the time is going to, like, managing all people’s tickets, thinking about these PM rituals. Also, like, again, I don’t want anyone to be operating at 100% capacity. It should, like.
350 00:35:19.550 ⇒ 00:35:24.790 Uttam Kumaran: go up and down. So that’s hopeful, like, I’m hopeful he can come in, take on,
351 00:35:24.910 ⇒ 00:35:29.750 Uttam Kumaran: take on, like, companies like Default, Ellie, Insomnia.
352 00:35:30.950 ⇒ 00:35:35.060 Uttam Kumaran: And then… Again, we’re not stopping bringing on more clients, so…
353 00:35:35.060 ⇒ 00:35:37.089 Amber Lin: He would be the go-to for…
354 00:35:37.200 ⇒ 00:35:44.460 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of those, and then ideally, if we can isolate you to just focusing on… like, ABC, I think, is one where they really love you, like.
355 00:35:45.210 ⇒ 00:35:47.849 Uttam Kumaran: If we find another person, I can transition them in, sure, but…
356 00:35:48.030 ⇒ 00:35:52.160 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to kind of, like, I don’t want to shake that up or eaten because it’s our biggest client.
357 00:35:52.350 ⇒ 00:36:07.249 Uttam Kumaran: But I think, like, if you can… if you just nail both of those, then I would try to keep you there, and then hand the rest to… to Justin, and then as we sell more, I want to bring in another PM to sort of finally get you out of it. I don’t know whether that’s going to be by the end of the year, though.
358 00:36:08.150 ⇒ 00:36:22.339 Amber Lin: Yeah, I’m okay with managing those, because even with Chief of Staff, it’ll take some time to ramp up. I think I’ll feel pretty bad if I didn’t manage the project, because I wouldn’t see the impact immediately, and I feel like I wouldn’t be contributing value.
359 00:36:22.340 ⇒ 00:36:23.999 Uttam Kumaran: of staff is, like,
360 00:36:24.350 ⇒ 00:36:28.460 Uttam Kumaran: It’s gonna be a mix of, like, you working alone and directly with me, and then, like.
361 00:36:28.940 ⇒ 00:36:31.060 Amber Lin: Going into different teams, so…
362 00:36:31.060 ⇒ 00:36:33.699 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t, like, I think it’s actually, like.
363 00:36:33.990 ⇒ 00:36:35.920 Uttam Kumaran: A good way to transition there.
364 00:36:36.550 ⇒ 00:36:45.969 Uttam Kumaran: And then, you know, the other thing is, like, Justin, I want him to come on and basically, like, build a team, so he’ll take over, like, how do we recruit for the next PM, the budgets.
365 00:36:46.120 ⇒ 00:36:52.000 Uttam Kumaran: all that stuff. So, like, I think it’ll take a lot of weight off of Your plate, you know?
366 00:36:52.150 ⇒ 00:36:53.920 Amber Lin: Yeah, I agree. He has one.
367 00:36:53.920 ⇒ 00:36:57.490 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’ll be a welcome addition. Yeah, like, I think he’ll be a really welcome addition.
368 00:36:57.720 ⇒ 00:37:15.030 Uttam Kumaran: And again, like, your… for… when I think about you, I think about just, like, raw execution, horsepower, and I want to make sure that you have someone on the PM team that can kind of guide that, but he’ll take over, and then, yeah, I… my question is, like, like, what on the Chief of Staff has been interesting learning about so far, and…
369 00:37:15.510 ⇒ 00:37:18.269 Uttam Kumaran: Like, just want to hear about thoughts there.
370 00:37:19.520 ⇒ 00:37:29.609 Amber Lin: Yeah, I talked to two people that Robert recommended, and then went to the webinar. I also reached out on LinkedIn, so I’m talking to someone this Friday.
371 00:37:29.790 ⇒ 00:37:49.289 Amber Lin: I think so far, it all comes down to, okay, what does the business need that, right now, that I’m interested in developing? And so far, I think our core need as we’re developing these OKRs is on delivery, of how do we achieve higher margins, and that’s something that
372 00:37:49.490 ⇒ 00:37:55.519 Amber Lin: I… I find interesting, I would like to own, but if we’re hiring Justin, then that’s something that…
373 00:37:55.670 ⇒ 00:38:01.469 Amber Lin: we either own together, or he would own, because I don’t want to overstep, and if that’s something…
374 00:38:01.470 ⇒ 00:38:06.329 Uttam Kumaran: But see, but company margin is different than… Project margin, right?
375 00:38:06.330 ⇒ 00:38:06.910 Amber Lin: shouldn’t…
376 00:38:07.140 ⇒ 00:38:10.249 Uttam Kumaran: Like… And also, for example, he…
377 00:38:10.530 ⇒ 00:38:18.720 Uttam Kumaran: This is another thing, is where, like, there’s also an AI component that goes across the whole thing. Like, part of what I think this role could even go into is just, like.
378 00:38:18.910 ⇒ 00:38:22.049 Uttam Kumaran: Basically, it’s, like, chief of staff, but also just, like.
379 00:38:22.290 ⇒ 00:38:25.950 Uttam Kumaran: Chief Automation, because I don’t know whether Sam
380 00:38:26.670 ⇒ 00:38:34.710 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know whether that can be anybody individually, except for someone that has as cross-functional ability as, like, me or Robert.
381 00:38:36.650 ⇒ 00:38:50.890 Uttam Kumaran: Right, which is, like, for example, I think achieving 40% margin, you could do without any AI, but I think across the board, we’re gonna set, like, AI-related objectives. And you can see them on Sam’s plate, but none of those are related to financials.
382 00:38:51.030 ⇒ 00:39:05.229 Uttam Kumaran: But also, like, there’s other streamlining that can happen that’s not just AI. That could be, like, on meeting structures. That could be, like, there’s so many other levers to pull that I don’t think the PM person is gonna be able to do.
383 00:39:05.420 ⇒ 00:39:07.379 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
384 00:39:07.490 ⇒ 00:39:08.350 Uttam Kumaran: So…
385 00:39:08.910 ⇒ 00:39:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: like, I don’t know, it could also be on the sourcing and recruiting side, like, can we get a pipeline of people that are more cost-friendly? Like, there’s just other opportunities, so this is where, like.
386 00:39:20.650 ⇒ 00:39:25.970 Uttam Kumaran: Project margin is one thing, but, like, entire company margin is different. Like, we could talk about
387 00:39:26.230 ⇒ 00:39:37.819 Uttam Kumaran: we could talk about, like, margins, like, at different levels, like, on people, and then on sales and marketing, like, so there’s a lot of more opportunity, and the chief of staff has a lot more levers they can pull than just the PM person.
388 00:39:38.070 ⇒ 00:39:49.740 Amber Lin: Yeah, okay. And I think another key advice that I got from them is, one, how you work, and I think so far, I think the ways we work are pretty similar, and
389 00:39:50.090 ⇒ 00:40:01.650 Amber Lin: essentially what you see as the needs of the business, because right now, from what I see, is, more on the PM side, okay, service quality, delivery quality.
390 00:40:01.650 ⇒ 00:40:20.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is where I want to… I want you to see the whole thing, and I can give you that. What… what I… what I’m realizing I can’t do is execute. Like, I just don’t have, I just don’t have the time. Like, I’m just going into whatever the most… like, one, I’m spending as much time on sales, and then I just don’t have the time to…
391 00:40:21.060 ⇒ 00:40:21.990 Uttam Kumaran: like…
392 00:40:22.500 ⇒ 00:40:34.119 Uttam Kumaran: like, for example, AI adoption, I think we’re sitting on all these AI things that we can get, and they’re 10 points of margin, but I can’t… I just don’t have the time to go push stuff. So, I think the strategy is really clear. We want to grow revenue really fast.
393 00:40:34.500 ⇒ 00:40:48.199 Uttam Kumaran: And we want to recruit and retain the best talent. Like, that’s always been, for me, the most important things in running a business like this. I think long-term, we may get into, like, do we want to strategically acquire a company, a strategic partnership.
394 00:40:48.270 ⇒ 00:40:52.189 Amber Lin: Like, do we want to sell the business? I think those are, like, the things where.
395 00:40:52.250 ⇒ 00:41:04.330 Uttam Kumaran: like, those are the conversations that Robert and I will start to have, like, once the company grows. So those are things where, like, this… you’re… you’ll be in that role. There’s no other person that can help us execute something like that.
396 00:41:05.850 ⇒ 00:41:10.919 Uttam Kumaran: But there’s also things on, like, there’ll be things on, like, the marketing and promotion side,
397 00:41:11.380 ⇒ 00:41:20.029 Uttam Kumaran: So, I don’t know, I think, like, roughly overall on strategies, one, like, I think we… we need to build scalable systems on sales and on delivery.
398 00:41:21.480 ⇒ 00:41:30.390 Uttam Kumaran: like, for example, we’re not gonna… like, on sales, they’re… we’re sort of somewhat scalable. On delivery, we’re sort of somewhat scalable. On recruitment, sort of. But, like.
399 00:41:30.590 ⇒ 00:41:33.859 Uttam Kumaran: I’m the only one with, sort of, purview about all of that, you know?
400 00:41:33.990 ⇒ 00:41:34.720 Amber Lin: Yeah.
401 00:41:36.860 ⇒ 00:41:55.090 Uttam Kumaran: But I can tell you at any moment what the biggest challenge is, and, like, what sort of, like, what the strategy is, like, what the answers are to go do. What we need help with is, like, executing, like, getting the people in the room, getting people decided on, or hiring the new person, or making the partnership with another company to, like, get X done.
402 00:41:55.210 ⇒ 00:41:58.210 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’m still doing a lot of that core execution work.
403 00:42:00.370 ⇒ 00:42:00.889 Amber Lin: It’s like for.
404 00:42:00.890 ⇒ 00:42:11.879 Uttam Kumaran: Like, here’s a good example. Like, I got introduced to this guy, Jake, who’s a go-to-market lead. I’m the one that had to go talk to him, get him set up, get him hooked him up with Hannah, hooked him up with the people to go interview.
405 00:42:12.040 ⇒ 00:42:12.430 Amber Lin: Kind of like…
406 00:42:12.430 ⇒ 00:42:13.820 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that is all things.
407 00:42:13.820 ⇒ 00:42:15.340 Amber Lin: No, I see.
408 00:42:15.530 ⇒ 00:42:26.759 Uttam Kumaran: And also, there’s just, like, other… there’s just, like, these, like, anything that doesn’t fall under someone, it comes to me, and I execute. But then I can’t go do the things, like.
409 00:42:26.930 ⇒ 00:42:37.710 Uttam Kumaran: figure out, like, how do we… how do we actually, like, run a fully AI-driven business? Like, how do I go recruit the next best engineer because we’re… we have a great set of opportunities? Like, how do… how do I.
410 00:42:37.710 ⇒ 00:42:38.140 Amber Lin: go south.
411 00:42:38.140 ⇒ 00:42:45.350 Uttam Kumaran: a $100,000 a month client. Those are things I don’t have… I can’t, like, sit… I don’t do strategy work on that anymore, because I don’t have time.
412 00:42:49.340 ⇒ 00:42:59.189 Uttam Kumaran: But this could also be, like, look, it could be working with me and Robert, like, mapping out our time and slowly starting to pick things up. But I agree, I think what I’m… what I sort of am curious about is, like, what…
413 00:42:59.570 ⇒ 00:43:08.650 Uttam Kumaran: all the OKRs that you see are all the company objectives right now. So if you’re drawn to one or two of those, I think there’s a great way to be leveraged.
414 00:43:08.840 ⇒ 00:43:14.039 Uttam Kumaran: But also, like, we don’t do much forward thinking in this business.
415 00:43:14.170 ⇒ 00:43:17.219 Uttam Kumaran: Which is a huge,
416 00:43:17.620 ⇒ 00:43:24.009 Uttam Kumaran: like, downside. Like, we don’t do forecasting, we don’t think more than a one quarter ahead, like.
417 00:43:24.410 ⇒ 00:43:27.070 Uttam Kumaran: Nobody’s there to help me do any of that, you know?
418 00:43:30.770 ⇒ 00:43:42.040 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think it will take a little bit of time for me to pick up the strategy piece, because my mind has been stuck in the execution, but I think immediately to start, I’m gonna pick…
419 00:43:42.350 ⇒ 00:43:56.619 Amber Lin: your and Robert’s calendars and just go through what you’ve been doing, and then take this transcript and the notes you wrote in the Chief of Staff document to see, okay, what are the… what are the areas that.
420 00:43:56.690 ⇒ 00:43:59.279 Uttam Kumaran: we need to do. I think most of them…
421 00:43:59.380 ⇒ 00:44:12.980 Amber Lin: are interesting, even with sales, I think I just… I am afraid of it, but it will still be interesting, and I know today Robert had some go-to-market stuff that he tagged me in that I’m gonna go look at later.
422 00:44:13.300 ⇒ 00:44:23.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but it’s not even sales where, like, you have to be on the sales call. Like, that’s not what we’re looking for, but I’m telling you, there’s so many sales processes and sales operations things that are not happening today.
423 00:44:23.940 ⇒ 00:44:27.900 Uttam Kumaran: That are holding us back from selling additional deals.
424 00:44:30.060 ⇒ 00:44:34.159 Amber Lin: The question may be, why aren’t we doing those things? Because there’s no capacity, like.
425 00:44:34.220 ⇒ 00:44:40.530 Uttam Kumaran: for Robert to go get Hannah, Ryan, Soledad, just, you know, organized, takes hours of his time, right?
426 00:44:41.160 ⇒ 00:44:47.970 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s this disconnect between us dictating the strategy and, like, getting the people corralled to go execute it, holding them accountable.
427 00:44:49.640 ⇒ 00:44:57.040 Uttam Kumaran: Right, so that’s a huge… so for me, the biggest… I would say, but also, like, for me, I think, yes, we can run a pretty traditional consulting business here.
428 00:44:57.040 ⇒ 00:44:59.909 Amber Lin: I think the opportunity for the AI.
429 00:44:59.910 ⇒ 00:45:12.130 Uttam Kumaran: piece is so huge, and I don’t know… I don’t think, like, someone in Sam’s position can focus on, like, building the best solution and getting it adopted across the company.
430 00:45:12.310 ⇒ 00:45:22.540 Uttam Kumaran: I’m the only one that’s sort of forcing it. I would love for your help on, like, how do we get… how do we basically, like, make sure that everybody’s using AI, and it’s contributing directly to our…
431 00:45:22.740 ⇒ 00:45:24.289 Uttam Kumaran: Bottom line, you know?
432 00:45:25.130 ⇒ 00:45:35.430 Uttam Kumaran: that’s something that, like, to talk… to say… I would say you’re not going to meet another chief of staff that’s probably doing that, because it’s such a brand new concept. Like, this has not existed before.
433 00:45:37.460 ⇒ 00:45:45.389 Uttam Kumaran: So I think that’s a unique spin that I would like to propose, which is, like, this person almost helps with, like, pushing that agenda.
434 00:45:45.550 ⇒ 00:45:48.650 Uttam Kumaran: Cause that’s also… that’s, like, out of everything.
435 00:45:48.860 ⇒ 00:45:52.419 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s what makes us unique. Otherwise, we’re running just a normal consultancy.
436 00:45:54.190 ⇒ 00:46:02.420 Amber Lin: Yeah, I agree. I’ll think more on that. I just remember previously we tried to push adoption, and that failed, so I’m just thinking about, okay, then…
437 00:46:02.700 ⇒ 00:46:04.810 Amber Lin: what… Exactly.
438 00:46:04.810 ⇒ 00:46:08.049 Uttam Kumaran: No, we have to… we’ll have to figure it out. Yeah, we’ll have to figure it out, yeah.
439 00:46:08.050 ⇒ 00:46:09.290 Amber Lin: Yeah. Okay.
440 00:46:09.290 ⇒ 00:46:14.820 Uttam Kumaran: But again, I’m the only one pushing it, and I’m talking to everybody in the company. Like, there has to be another layer, right?
441 00:46:14.820 ⇒ 00:46:17.709 Amber Lin: Yeah. We don’t even have that much people in the company, so…
442 00:46:17.710 ⇒ 00:46:18.919 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know, yeah.
443 00:46:18.920 ⇒ 00:46:24.140 Amber Lin: So, it should be accomplishable, it’s just gonna be a lot of hand-holding from the start.
444 00:46:24.430 ⇒ 00:46:25.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
445 00:46:25.080 ⇒ 00:46:32.750 Amber Lin: Yeah. Okay, I think that, that is very interesting, and today I have some more time, because the project work, I think, most…
446 00:46:32.840 ⇒ 00:46:50.929 Amber Lin: Like, they’re all on track. At least nothing has, like, burned up on my end for now. Okay. I’ll work on these OKRs, I’ll think about the Chief of Staff, and then I’ll try and create the first set of Chief of Staff OKRs to… so we can take a look at them.
447 00:46:51.030 ⇒ 00:46:55.150 Amber Lin: I think the last thing on my plate I want to discuss is…
448 00:46:55.550 ⇒ 00:46:56.800 Uttam Kumaran: I have to jump.
449 00:46:57.290 ⇒ 00:47:00.889 Uttam Kumaran: To another thing I’m a little bit late to. Can I just call you right back after?
450 00:47:01.120 ⇒ 00:47:07.109 Amber Lin: Yeah, it’s just one question, I’ll send it over. It’s about the e-verifying visa stuff, I’ll just send it over via Slack.
451 00:47:07.110 ⇒ 00:47:08.520 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay. Yes, anything.
452 00:47:08.520 ⇒ 00:47:11.430 Amber Lin: Yeah, yeah, talk to you soon. Alright, bye!