Meeting Title: Project Management Challenges and Strategies Sync Date: 2025-08-21 Meeting participants: Fireflies.ai Notetaker Gibson, Gibson’s Day AI Assistant, Gibson Farone-Collins, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:04:08.270 ⇒ 00:04:09.210 Gibson Farone-Collins: Hello!
2 00:04:09.210 ⇒ 00:04:09.620 Robert Tseng: Hey, good.
3 00:04:09.620 ⇒ 00:04:13.509 Gibson Farone-Collins: Sorry, my… My over-aggressive robots have joined.
4 00:04:14.950 ⇒ 00:04:18.379 Gibson Farone-Collins: You can kick… can you kick them out, because you’re the host? I can’t… I don’t see it.
5 00:04:18.839 ⇒ 00:04:19.199 Gibson Farone-Collins: Okay.
6 00:04:19.350 ⇒ 00:04:20.180 Robert Tseng: Sure.
7 00:04:20.430 ⇒ 00:04:23.779 Robert Tseng: I was like, whoa, it’s a… it’s a party.
8 00:04:24.300 ⇒ 00:04:25.060 Robert Tseng: ….
9 00:04:25.060 ⇒ 00:04:26.049 Gibson Farone-Collins: Sorry about that.
10 00:04:26.050 ⇒ 00:04:29.839 Robert Tseng: No, no, all good. I get that that’s how it is these days.
11 00:04:31.120 ⇒ 00:04:36.669 Robert Tseng: I’m just trying to make sure I’m not… I don’t… because, like, when you kick them out, there’s an option to report it to Zoom.
12 00:04:36.860 ⇒ 00:04:37.580 Gibson Farone-Collins: Oh.
13 00:04:37.580 ⇒ 00:04:38.979 Robert Tseng: port it, because I don’t want to cause any issues.
14 00:04:40.640 ⇒ 00:04:46.270 Gibson Farone-Collins: I would be happy if they joined fewer meetings. I should probably change the settings, but…
15 00:04:46.910 ⇒ 00:04:48.150 Gibson Farone-Collins: They don’t want to.
16 00:04:48.150 ⇒ 00:04:49.980 Robert Tseng: Nice.
17 00:04:51.350 ⇒ 00:04:52.300 Gibson Farone-Collins: How are you?
18 00:04:52.300 ⇒ 00:04:59.449 Robert Tseng: I’m good! Yeah, I mean, I… first time I’ve seen you a bit more, buttoned up on… on… at home.
19 00:05:00.060 ⇒ 00:05:08.120 Gibson Farone-Collins: I have a… we have a client, like, a VD call in an hour, so I put on a shirt with a button and collar on it today.
20 00:05:08.120 ⇒ 00:05:11.970 Robert Tseng: Nice, yeah. Oh, sick, you’re in the… you’re on the BD side now.
21 00:05:12.980 ⇒ 00:05:17.149 Gibson Farone-Collins: Some, yeah! Yeah. Yeah. It’s… it’s kind of all over…
22 00:05:17.690 ⇒ 00:05:28.459 Gibson Farone-Collins: I don’t know, whatever they need me to do. This is a… we’re trying to do some, like, growth equity pitches, so a little bit smaller checks, smaller companies.
23 00:05:28.710 ⇒ 00:05:29.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
24 00:05:29.410 ⇒ 00:05:35.190 Gibson Farone-Collins: And… trying to figure out what the right consulting product to fit that is, so this is a…
25 00:05:35.420 ⇒ 00:05:37.740 Gibson Farone-Collins: Chat with a guy like that in an hour.
26 00:05:38.040 ⇒ 00:05:40.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah, nice. That’s, that’s cool.
27 00:05:41.420 ⇒ 00:05:42.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
28 00:05:42.240 ⇒ 00:05:59.780 Robert Tseng: How are you? I’m… I’m good. I think, I have a couple of my team that are in New York, so we have, like, a room. We’re, like, a co-working space right now, so it’s, always good energy here. But yeah, I think, we just… we kind of got into a pinch, like, on the delivery side, and, like, had to make, you know.
29 00:06:00.400 ⇒ 00:06:03.750 Robert Tseng: Trying to make some hiring decisions, …
30 00:06:03.930 ⇒ 00:06:16.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so actually, I don’t really have that much to say on the VD side today, but … yeah, I’m curious, like, how you guys manage your projects, but, like, one role that’s been really hard for us to hire for is, like, a project manager.
31 00:06:16.370 ⇒ 00:06:17.380 Robert Tseng: …
32 00:06:17.460 ⇒ 00:06:36.420 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m assuming that… I mean, actually, I don’t know, I don’t wanna… I don’t know… I’m not gonna assume anything, but at least, what we were advised was, like, once we scale up to a certain point, like, we need to establish, like, a project management office, or PMO, whatever, and … yeah, we would recommend it, you know, go and hire some PMPs or something, and, like.
33 00:06:36.450 ⇒ 00:06:51.569 Robert Tseng: yeah, like, you start to deploy them across your clients. And I think what I saw… we did take that advice, and we’ve been running it for the past, like, 6 weeks. Maybe it takes a bit longer, but I’ve not been that happy with the way it’s gone. Like, I feel like…
34 00:06:51.830 ⇒ 00:07:01.070 Robert Tseng: every… our pace of work has just slowed down considerably. We’ve just added a lot more, like, check-ins. People are, like, swamped with meetings, and so, like, overall, like, morale’s not doing too well either.
35 00:07:01.170 ⇒ 00:07:15.140 Robert Tseng: And yeah, like, our lead PM has just kind of, like, set up all the structure, and I kind of feel like it’s overkill for, like, what we’re doing, and … yeah, so I think I’ve been kind of just mulling on that this past week, like…
36 00:07:15.170 ⇒ 00:07:22.580 Robert Tseng: what do we… was this the right decision? Like, what, like, do we even need, like, PMs? Like, I don’t know. So, I think that.
37 00:07:22.580 ⇒ 00:07:28.179 Gibson Farone-Collins: How many projects are your… is your team supporting? Is, like, one team member supporting at a given time?
38 00:07:28.180 ⇒ 00:07:38.899 Robert Tseng: So, we have full-timers that are doing 3, like, 3 max at a time. And then the part-timers are on, like, 1 or 2. So, like.
39 00:07:39.240 ⇒ 00:07:45.009 Robert Tseng: Actually, yeah, like, there’s only one part-timer that’s on two, but those are very light projects, so…
40 00:07:45.260 ⇒ 00:07:52.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t know, like, the way that I had structured… maybe this is more of an organizational structure question, I’m curious, like, if you have any thoughts on this, but like…
41 00:07:52.440 ⇒ 00:08:02.600 Robert Tseng: we, you know, obviously I first started it, and everyone was kind of, like, contractor, like, part-time-ish kind of thing, and then, eventually we were able to hire full-time. For me, like.
42 00:08:02.600 ⇒ 00:08:12.490 Robert Tseng: For our engineers, we have, like, data engineers that are full-time. I think their workload is very consistent, it’s easy to kind of plan for that, so it made sense to just convert them to full-time.
43 00:08:12.550 ⇒ 00:08:29.459 Robert Tseng: And then we have, like, a couple, like, lead-level folks, like, one on the AI side of the business, and then, yeah, one on the data side of the business, and then everyone else is kind of, like, doing hourly stuff that’s, like, more, like, flexible, I guess. …
44 00:08:29.630 ⇒ 00:08:44.550 Robert Tseng: Yeah, just because, like, needs of the business change as we move from different phases in the engagement. And so, like, maybe, like, analyst hours may be heavier. Like, our data viz person may be heavier in the beginning, but then, like, that tapers off after a bit, and we have to, like.
45 00:08:44.550 ⇒ 00:08:44.870 Gibson Farone-Collins: do it.
46 00:08:44.870 ⇒ 00:08:57.739 Robert Tseng: more into an analyst hours or whatever. So, I feel like we’re always playing this game of, like, recalibrating how much we leverage our specialists, and it’s exhausting, just, like, kind of doing that, like, every two weeks kind of thing, so….
47 00:08:57.740 ⇒ 00:09:05.680 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah, I’m sure there’s some project volume where you wouldn’t need to, but you gotta scale into that project volume.
48 00:09:05.680 ⇒ 00:09:06.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
49 00:09:06.790 ⇒ 00:09:11.859 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so that’s… that’s kind of the… the pickle that I’ve been in the past, like.
50 00:09:12.330 ⇒ 00:09:15.099 Robert Tseng: Week, two weeks, yeah.
51 00:09:15.370 ⇒ 00:09:16.360 Gibson Farone-Collins: Interesting.
52 00:09:16.800 ⇒ 00:09:21.600 Gibson Farone-Collins: Ours… it’s a different… that I think…
53 00:09:21.830 ⇒ 00:09:26.380 Gibson Farone-Collins: I think in a lot of ways, what we do is… Similar.
54 00:09:26.810 ⇒ 00:09:35.480 Gibson Farone-Collins: But in some ways it’s not, and I think this is a way where it’s different, where we’re staffing, like, a team to a project.
55 00:09:35.480 ⇒ 00:09:36.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
56 00:09:36.710 ⇒ 00:09:44.750 Gibson Farone-Collins: And it’s… You know, there’s… there’s a project lead, and then usually call it 3 people reporting, like, three.
57 00:09:44.750 ⇒ 00:09:45.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
58 00:09:45.400 ⇒ 00:09:51.370 Gibson Farone-Collins: analyst associates reporting that person. Yeah. And we will have people split across two projects.
59 00:09:52.160 ⇒ 00:09:59.290 Gibson Farone-Collins: But… There’s not, like, a PMO layer that exists.
60 00:09:59.610 ⇒ 00:10:03.680 Robert Tseng: On top of that, like, it is very project-specific staffing.
61 00:10:03.880 ⇒ 00:10:04.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
62 00:10:06.520 ⇒ 00:10:08.500 Gibson Farone-Collins: So, I don’t know, I, like…
63 00:10:12.650 ⇒ 00:10:15.290 Gibson Farone-Collins: I don’t know if that would work in your case or not.
64 00:10:15.290 ⇒ 00:10:22.429 Robert Tseng: How do you… how do you apply, like… I mean, so, I’ll just take a hypothetical. So, the lead makes sense to me, obviously, and then…
65 00:10:22.510 ⇒ 00:10:35.399 Robert Tseng: the… at the associate level, I guess, or whatever, kind of, that sec… the… like, what… what are the… what does the overlap look like? Like, how do you… how does, like, the coverage work? I imagine that certain people… I mean, I guess you’re…
66 00:10:35.550 ⇒ 00:10:43.869 Robert Tseng: your… I mean, your stuff is still rolled out in phases, too. It’s not like… it may not be, like, super technical, like, engineering work or whatever, but, like…
67 00:10:43.980 ⇒ 00:11:01.449 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, I imagine that, you know, in the beginning, it’s a lot more… I’m just throwing, like, any… tell me I’m wrong, but, like, you know, your opportunity sizing, and then kind of figuring out, like, what… like, what projects specifically you’re gonna execute on, and then there’s some stuff that’s, like, work streams that run all the way through.
68 00:11:01.450 ⇒ 00:11:11.709 Robert Tseng: You know, there’s, like, different work streams that are going at different velocities. Some trigger in the beginning, sometime in the middle, like, how does that kind of all… like, how do the handoffs work across that?
69 00:11:14.090 ⇒ 00:11:15.230 Gibson Farone-Collins: So…
70 00:11:16.180 ⇒ 00:11:25.500 Gibson Farone-Collins: Sometimes we will scale up or down the size of the team if the project, you know, to your point, if it’s a four-week audit and we need
71 00:11:25.590 ⇒ 00:11:42.550 Gibson Farone-Collins: only a manager plus 2 to do that. Yeah. But then we think we’re gonna go to execution after that, and so we’ll add… it’ll be manager plus 4, or something like that. Yeah. Because there will be more to do. That is, like… but that will be pre-scoped and in the statement of work.
72 00:11:43.990 ⇒ 00:11:53.609 Gibson Farone-Collins: And it’s… people are typically persistent throughout the project. Like, we definitely have some specialization within our talent pool.
73 00:11:54.000 ⇒ 00:11:54.470 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
74 00:11:54.470 ⇒ 00:12:00.610 Gibson Farone-Collins: where someone is an SEO expert, or a paid social expert, or whatever, But…
75 00:12:03.410 ⇒ 00:12:11.180 Gibson Farone-Collins: you know, you want the SEO expert to do the audit, and then you also want the SEO expert to execute against the audit.
76 00:12:11.480 ⇒ 00:12:13.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Finding. So, like, like.
77 00:12:13.660 ⇒ 00:12:20.329 Gibson Farone-Collins: even though they’re a specialization, it’s usually persistent across a project. It’s not like we have a group of
78 00:12:20.780 ⇒ 00:12:24.890 Gibson Farone-Collins: Auditors, and then we have a group of executors, really.
79 00:12:25.620 ⇒ 00:12:26.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
80 00:12:27.990 ⇒ 00:12:29.140 Gibson Farone-Collins: So, yeah.
81 00:12:30.060 ⇒ 00:12:32.750 Robert Tseng: Interesting. I mean, you do work with, like.
82 00:12:32.920 ⇒ 00:12:42.339 Robert Tseng: contractors… I mean, you do work with some specialists that are, like, kind of… so, yeah, like, out of that range, too. Like, how do you bring them into the fold at that point, then?
83 00:12:43.700 ⇒ 00:12:54.190 Gibson Farone-Collins: That is usually a later conversation with a client, like, it… I don’t… I’m sure we have…
84 00:12:55.470 ⇒ 00:13:00.780 Gibson Farone-Collins: Come in on a project and said, We’re gonna staff this with…
85 00:13:01.810 ⇒ 00:13:19.150 Gibson Farone-Collins: you know, three generalist consultant types, and then one email marketer who is just gonna take over your email program, or something like that, and be, like, very hands-on keys. But more what I’ve seen is, like, we’re doing the audit, and it becomes clear during the audit that
86 00:13:19.490 ⇒ 00:13:26.820 Gibson Farone-Collins: They need someone to just be hands up… hands to keys on email, and so we bring that person in later on.
87 00:13:26.820 ⇒ 00:13:27.540 Robert Tseng: I see.
88 00:13:29.080 ⇒ 00:13:29.690 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah.
89 00:13:30.130 ⇒ 00:13:30.790 Robert Tseng: Huh.
90 00:13:33.160 ⇒ 00:13:41.939 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, sounds like you’re able to anticipate, kind of, the needs more up front in the scope of… in the scoping phase.
91 00:13:41.940 ⇒ 00:13:42.410 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah.
92 00:13:42.410 ⇒ 00:13:46.659 Robert Tseng: That even when you’re doing the audit or the strategy piece, like.
93 00:13:47.220 ⇒ 00:13:53.970 Robert Tseng: like, there aren’t these, like, surprises. I mean, and then you also… I mean, you’re… there is typically…
94 00:13:54.680 ⇒ 00:14:13.700 Robert Tseng: I mean, I guess I’m running into this issue more with, like, our longer-term clients, like, the ones that have been with us for, like, a year, kind of year plus, like, the organizations have just changed very drastically, you know, they’ve maybe grown a lot, and, like, things have… like, I think the same folks that started with them maybe 6-plus months ago, are not the same people who are gonna be able to keep.
95 00:14:13.700 ⇒ 00:14:14.240 Gibson Farone-Collins: Hmm.
96 00:14:14.240 ⇒ 00:14:25.100 Robert Tseng: meeting their needs now, and maybe that’s just, like, a matter of, like, the people that we’re finding are just… what we’re hiring just… they’re not… I think engineers tend to not be as…
97 00:14:25.270 ⇒ 00:14:29.020 Robert Tseng: broad as, I guess, consultant types, I guess, so….
98 00:14:29.020 ⇒ 00:14:29.620 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah.
99 00:14:29.620 ⇒ 00:14:31.689 Robert Tseng: There’s something to be said there, too, huh?
100 00:14:32.200 ⇒ 00:14:32.970 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
101 00:14:34.110 ⇒ 00:14:35.349 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah, that’s interesting.
102 00:14:35.690 ⇒ 00:14:36.320 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
103 00:14:38.080 ⇒ 00:14:38.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
104 00:14:39.110 ⇒ 00:14:41.280 Gibson Farone-Collins: the PMO office.
105 00:14:41.910 ⇒ 00:14:50.249 Gibson Farone-Collins: I can see why you would want to run with that, and I can also see how people would be like, after 6 weeks, be like, what the hell is, like, why am I… why am I on this call?
106 00:14:50.440 ⇒ 00:14:51.150 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
107 00:14:51.320 ⇒ 00:15:06.369 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I feel like we… we need to make a decision on whether we just suck it up and just keep going with it until it works, or we cut it off. Like, I don’t… don’t fully know yet. Trying to make that decision. Yeah.
108 00:15:07.460 ⇒ 00:15:08.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
109 00:15:08.330 ⇒ 00:15:09.150 Robert Tseng: So…
110 00:15:10.070 ⇒ 00:15:20.309 Robert Tseng: So yeah, that’s, that’s been, that’s been the, kind of, name of the game the past couple weeks, trying to, like, right-size some of our delivery, kind of, expectations. …
111 00:15:21.050 ⇒ 00:15:34.369 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then on… I guess on the BD side, we’re… yeah, we’re just testing different outbound motions. I know, yeah, I messaged you something about this PE thing. It’s moving slowly, so I wasn’t, like, super rushed to kind of send something yet, but something we’re actively talking to.
112 00:15:34.550 ⇒ 00:15:42.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… it was like, we are now… we are partnering, or we’ve partnered with a…
113 00:15:44.020 ⇒ 00:15:52.570 Robert Tseng: I guess another… I always call them vendors, but, like, just a tool that seems to work… they do well with, like, their book of business is all, like.
114 00:15:53.140 ⇒ 00:15:57.110 Robert Tseng: PE-backed kind of clients, and so they’re like, well, they actually…
115 00:15:57.110 ⇒ 00:16:20.260 Robert Tseng: sometimes it’s not as easy as, like, a plug-and-play, and they need somebody to come in and kind of get them ready, so that’s kind of, like, a hat that we’re trying to explore, like, putting on for them. So yeah, I mean, I think… yeah, I think your general thoughts were helpful, and just being like, okay, there is, like, a certain flavor that needs to come off the page when we… when we put this together. But yeah, that call is still, like, you know, like, two weeks away, so…
116 00:16:20.290 ⇒ 00:16:28.239 Robert Tseng: I… I don’t think I ever… we just… I haven’t worked on it yet, so… Yeah, two weeks away is….
117 00:16:29.460 ⇒ 00:16:33.769 Gibson Farone-Collins: That’s a… that’s a one-week and four days from now problem, or something like that.
118 00:16:33.770 ⇒ 00:16:36.659 Robert Tseng: Yeah, exactly.
119 00:16:37.330 ⇒ 00:16:41.090 Gibson Farone-Collins: That’s funny. Yeah, we… one thing we’ve been… I wonder if…
120 00:16:41.190 ⇒ 00:16:44.600 Gibson Farone-Collins: If you’ve seen this, or if you will see this.
121 00:16:46.450 ⇒ 00:16:49.290 Gibson Farone-Collins: One thing we’ve been thinking about the last few weeks is, like.
122 00:16:50.210 ⇒ 00:16:56.140 Gibson Farone-Collins: Our sales materials at Sales Motion is very PE-focused.
123 00:16:56.140 ⇒ 00:16:56.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
124 00:16:57.380 ⇒ 00:17:04.510 Gibson Farone-Collins: And I think it works in a diligence context, and in a value creation for private equity context, too, of, like.
125 00:17:05.109 ⇒ 00:17:10.509 Gibson Farone-Collins: We’re hitting them with a scorecard, and we’re saying, here’s 5 things they’re doing wrong, and here’s how we’d fix it.
126 00:17:10.510 ⇒ 00:17:11.089 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
127 00:17:11.359 ⇒ 00:17:26.529 Gibson Farone-Collins: And the product manager’s like, oh yeah, that sounds great. But then we get in the room with the CMO of the company, and they’re super defensive, understandably, about the five things that we’re saying that, you know, they’re like, oh, well, this data isn’t right, or…
128 00:17:26.979 ⇒ 00:17:32.909 Gibson Farone-Collins: What, oh, you know, oh yeah, we know about that, that’s on the roadmap for… that’s next quarter, we’re gonna fix this.
129 00:17:32.910 ⇒ 00:17:34.649 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
130 00:17:34.940 ⇒ 00:17:43.850 Gibson Farone-Collins: And it becomes immediately, like, a confrontational conversation with those folks in a way that is not… conducive to…
131 00:17:44.110 ⇒ 00:17:51.139 Gibson Farone-Collins: selling them consulting work. Yeah. But I wonder if you’ve had that experience ever, where… where….
132 00:17:51.140 ⇒ 00:17:51.790 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
133 00:17:52.190 ⇒ 00:17:57.399 Gibson Farone-Collins: Like, you’re… how do you think about managing those different stakeholders in that?
134 00:17:57.850 ⇒ 00:18:12.769 Robert Tseng: Oh, that is so real for me right now, like, we… we have, like, I mean, our… our… we saw… we started with, like, kind of our… our… pretty much our biggest client, like, this past… past month. And yeah, it’s been kind of what you’ve described, like.
135 00:18:12.890 ⇒ 00:18:24.380 Robert Tseng: it all sounded, like, all good when we signed the papers, the CMO, or whatever, signed off on it, and then we go in, and, you know, we’re basically butting heads with their internal data team a bit.
136 00:18:24.380 ⇒ 00:18:35.739 Robert Tseng: Like, well, their control data team is actually… he’s, like, a former engineering head who, like, he started, like, he just, like, switched over and started doing data work, like, two years ago.
137 00:18:35.740 ⇒ 00:18:54.240 Robert Tseng: And, like, he is, like, gatekeeping everything there, and not really letting us in to do things that we wanted to do. And then, like, my day… my day-to-day kind of stakeholder, who’s, like, the VP of Marketing, yeah, she’s, like, actually not really on the same page as the CMO, and very defensive about, like, the stuff that we said we wanted to do. …
138 00:18:54.240 ⇒ 00:19:03.179 Robert Tseng: So, like, yeah, a month has gone by, and, like, I’m sitting here scratching my head, because we’re gonna do our check-in next week, and I’m like, well, we didn’t really get as far as I thought we would.
139 00:19:03.200 ⇒ 00:19:04.870 Robert Tseng: A lot of it was just, like.
140 00:19:05.030 ⇒ 00:19:18.970 Robert Tseng: we’re just not on the same page, so I… I don’t have a good answer for that. I… I feel like with other clients, it took a long time to really earn that trust, and it, like, I just had to… I had to earn that trust with my day of, like.
141 00:19:18.970 ⇒ 00:19:28.269 Robert Tseng: kind of person who I’m working with, or… like, or else it just doesn’t work out, like, we’re just not… it’s just not gonna be a good fit. So, I… I don’t… I don’t really know, yeah.
142 00:19:28.270 ⇒ 00:19:31.390 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah That sounds hard. Ugh.
143 00:19:31.930 ⇒ 00:19:32.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
144 00:19:32.270 ⇒ 00:19:38.770 Gibson Farone-Collins: I mean, it sounds like those 3 people need to get in a room together and figure it out, but it’s hard for you to say that happened.
145 00:19:39.160 ⇒ 00:19:47.459 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I almost feel like it was, like, the CMO didn’t want to tell, like, her team that, like, this is what she wanted to focus on, and then…
146 00:19:47.890 ⇒ 00:20:01.160 Robert Tseng: hired someone outside to go and be the bearer of bad news, and then kind of, like, take all the punches from the team, and then… I don’t know, like, she’s gonna be like, well, I tried. I’m not sure.
147 00:20:01.510 ⇒ 00:20:02.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
148 00:20:02.420 ⇒ 00:20:06.439 Gibson Farone-Collins: We had… we had a client earlier this year that was just, like.
149 00:20:08.680 ⇒ 00:20:14.559 Gibson Farone-Collins: It was… it was CMO… it was actually… it was the CMO and her VPs and the data team were the three stakeholders.
150 00:20:14.560 ⇒ 00:20:16.329 Robert Tseng: Oh, really? Okay.
151 00:20:16.330 ⇒ 00:20:17.300 Gibson Farone-Collins: They just…
152 00:20:18.130 ⇒ 00:20:25.840 Gibson Farone-Collins: the CMO was so checked out, and there was one VP who wanted us there, and one who didn’t, and so, like.
153 00:20:26.400 ⇒ 00:20:28.119 Gibson Farone-Collins: They were very different.
154 00:20:28.360 ⇒ 00:20:34.170 Gibson Farone-Collins: people to deal with, and then… and so, you know, we did our project, and…
155 00:20:34.590 ⇒ 00:20:39.969 Gibson Farone-Collins: you put all the, like, elbow grease and shine on it that you can’t, but at the end of the day, I was like, we didn’t…
156 00:20:40.350 ⇒ 00:20:45.689 Gibson Farone-Collins: It was not worth the however many hundreds of thousands of dollars they paid us.
157 00:20:45.690 ⇒ 00:20:46.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah. For this.
158 00:20:47.520 ⇒ 00:21:05.249 Gibson Farone-Collins: And then, sure enough, we find out, like, 3 weeks later that the CMO is leaving the company. Like, she got… she got canned. Like, it was just like, oh, we were in the middle of a lot of dysfunction that we sensed, but it was not of our making. It was…
159 00:21:06.190 ⇒ 00:21:08.939 Gibson Farone-Collins: It was just a dysfunctional environment.
160 00:21:08.940 ⇒ 00:21:09.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
161 00:21:10.320 ⇒ 00:21:11.030 Robert Tseng: Huh.
162 00:21:12.660 ⇒ 00:21:14.519 Gibson Farone-Collins: I don’t know, what can you do?
163 00:21:14.520 ⇒ 00:21:15.230 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
164 00:21:16.010 ⇒ 00:21:32.720 Robert Tseng: Well, yeah, so now, I mean, I’m thinking about, okay, well, I need to go into this call next week, and like, yeah, I kind of did… we had the same thing, kind of, some scorecards, some, like, kind of… some roadmap that we were going to hit, short-term, medium, long-term, and I’m trying to go into that call being like.
165 00:21:32.720 ⇒ 00:21:40.969 Robert Tseng: Well, in an ideal world, it’s like, great, we did all the things we wanted to in the short term, this is the clarity we have on the adjustments that we’re making to, like, the medium-term roadmap.
166 00:21:40.970 ⇒ 00:21:53.009 Robert Tseng: like, let’s extend for another, like, 3-6 months kind of thing. I think I don’t really have as much… I don’t know how I’m gonna back to that store, I’m gonna have to figure it out, but… yeah, I just feel like…
167 00:21:53.070 ⇒ 00:22:00.810 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, like, maybe I should even just stray away from that script, and like… I mean, they’re all 3 people who are gonna be on that call, and, like.
168 00:22:00.810 ⇒ 00:22:01.330 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah.
169 00:22:01.330 ⇒ 00:22:07.829 Robert Tseng: to address the elephant in the room. Maybe not, I don’t know, like, I… do we sweep it under the rug? I’m not… not really sure, like, so, yeah.
170 00:22:12.120 ⇒ 00:22:12.750 Gibson Farone-Collins: Poe?
171 00:22:13.330 ⇒ 00:22:17.120 Gibson Farone-Collins: I mean, it’s not my business. It’s sort of, like, fun to imagine
172 00:22:17.520 ⇒ 00:22:36.099 Gibson Farone-Collins: you know, because you could spin it where, like, you bringing it up in that call and trying to resolve something actually does a ton to build credibility and relationship with those folks. But you could also spin it where it’s, like, they’re like, okay, never talking to that guy again, like, see you later, you know?
173 00:22:36.100 ⇒ 00:22:36.440 Robert Tseng: No.
174 00:22:36.440 ⇒ 00:22:39.360 Gibson Farone-Collins: I would totally go one of two ways there.
175 00:22:39.360 ⇒ 00:22:39.970 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
176 00:22:40.440 ⇒ 00:22:42.560 Gibson Farone-Collins: But I do think as an outsider….
177 00:22:42.940 ⇒ 00:22:54.010 Robert Tseng: I was gonna say, yeah, you finish your thought. I was gonna say, it’s easy for me on this side of the call to be like, you should see what happens, and like, you know, try to really have some more therapy with them, but… Yeah.
178 00:22:54.010 ⇒ 00:22:54.970 Gibson Farone-Collins: brisk.
179 00:22:55.520 ⇒ 00:23:06.249 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I feel like, as the outsider, you kinda have to default to being more provocative. Like, if you just keep the status quo, and you’re not, like.
180 00:23:07.020 ⇒ 00:23:19.469 Robert Tseng: I mean, yeah, you kinda gotta risk it, because, like, if it’s gonna go… if it’s like a… like a hell yes, like, yeah, they’ll… they’ll keep going with you, and if it’s not, then it’ll be very clear. Like, I almost feel like that’s… you can’t just, like…
181 00:23:19.580 ⇒ 00:23:25.180 Robert Tseng: there’s no status quo to maintain. The status quo is you being out of the picture. I feel like that’s typically what it is.
182 00:23:25.180 ⇒ 00:23:26.490 Gibson Farone-Collins: That’s very true.
183 00:23:26.490 ⇒ 00:23:26.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
184 00:23:26.880 ⇒ 00:23:27.380 Gibson Farone-Collins: Cool.
185 00:23:27.380 ⇒ 00:23:28.799 Robert Tseng: So, I do feel like…
186 00:23:29.030 ⇒ 00:23:41.309 Robert Tseng: you know, when we get into these situations, like, I have to come with, like, a point of view, like, a strong point of view, or a hot take, or something, and just have to be the one to push… push on that envelope somehow. Yeah.
187 00:23:43.010 ⇒ 00:23:45.200 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah, well, that’s….
188 00:23:45.200 ⇒ 00:23:47.150 Robert Tseng: I’ll let you know how that goes.
189 00:23:47.150 ⇒ 00:23:50.659 Gibson Farone-Collins: If you decide to do that, I’m curious how it goes.
190 00:23:50.660 ⇒ 00:23:52.140 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
191 00:23:52.410 ⇒ 00:23:53.130 Robert Tseng: Huh.
192 00:23:54.000 ⇒ 00:24:13.039 Robert Tseng: Cool. I mean, yeah, I mean, this is… this was good, just to… I don’t know, feels… feels familiar. I mean, I… I can… it gets me thinking. These are things that’s hard to talk about just with people on my team, even so. Totally. Even this is, like… I don’t know what you were expecting, but I… I appreciate just our little tangent here, so….
193 00:24:13.270 ⇒ 00:24:18.619 Gibson Farone-Collins: No, I always, I always like catching up. You got anything, anything fun planned on the horizon?
194 00:24:18.620 ⇒ 00:24:31.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, a couple things, yeah, well, I guess, I don’t know if you knew this about me, but after I graduated college, I lived in Kazakhstan for, like, a year, and then… yeah, well, I thought I was gonna go…
195 00:24:31.420 ⇒ 00:24:39.930 Robert Tseng: I thought I was gonna, eventually get a PhD in econ and, like, work for, like, the World Bank, doing some microfinance work in a second or third world country.
196 00:24:39.930 ⇒ 00:24:45.099 Gibson Farone-Collins: Hell yeah, that’s… that’s also what I thought I was gonna do when I grew up, but….
197 00:24:45.100 ⇒ 00:24:45.919 Robert Tseng: Oh, no way!
198 00:24:46.610 ⇒ 00:25:01.519 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… went off and did that. It was, like, not… it’s not exactly a Fulbright, it’s called a Boren Scholarship, something similar. And then I was doing that at a university in Central Asia, and …
199 00:25:01.910 ⇒ 00:25:10.620 Robert Tseng: yeah, I eventually came back to the States, and I went… applied to grad school. Didn’t end up going, because then, like, COVID… COVID hit, and then…
200 00:25:10.620 ⇒ 00:25:28.469 Robert Tseng: I was like, I’m not gonna start my PhD while doing, like, online or whatever. So, anyway, so that, that was, like, felt like a past life to me, but I still have a bunch of contacts there. And, yeah, in Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, like, a lot of the stands I’m very familiar with.
201 00:25:28.940 ⇒ 00:25:39.729 Robert Tseng: Long story short, like, Kyrgyzstan has… they started this high-tech park. It’s basically, like, a tax haven for foreign businesses to come in and, like.
202 00:25:39.730 ⇒ 00:25:42.979 Gibson Farone-Collins: basically outsource talent, do some staffing or whatever. Okay.
203 00:25:42.980 ⇒ 00:26:00.739 Robert Tseng: And yeah, so I kind of got reached out to by, like, the Kyrgyz government, some government… some contacts I had there to kind of come with… yeah, so me and a few other… I mean, I don’t know, I don’t know why I’m in the room, but a bunch of, tech folks from the Bay Area kind of going out there for a week, and then…
204 00:26:00.910 ⇒ 00:26:02.759 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t know, I guess we’re doing, like.
205 00:26:02.760 ⇒ 00:26:03.150 Gibson Farone-Collins: Boom.
206 00:26:03.150 ⇒ 00:26:06.119 Robert Tseng: JAMP and Hackathon or something, …
207 00:26:06.280 ⇒ 00:26:15.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and just networking, I guess. I’m more interested for the prospect of seeing, like, my brand’s name, like, with some of these other companies on.
208 00:26:15.040 ⇒ 00:26:15.590 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah!
209 00:26:15.590 ⇒ 00:26:25.520 Robert Tseng: But also, yeah, nice to just reconnect with some old friends and kind of see what it’s like. So, I’ll be going in, like, the week of Labor Day is kind of the long of it. Yeah.
210 00:26:25.520 ⇒ 00:26:34.239 Gibson Farone-Collins: And so you fly… New York to Istanbul to… Bishkek or something like that?
211 00:26:34.240 ⇒ 00:26:35.889 Robert Tseng: Exactly, yeah, yeah.
212 00:26:36.270 ⇒ 00:26:40.199 Gibson Farone-Collins: Cool! That’s amazing! What’s it like?
213 00:26:40.710 ⇒ 00:26:43.200 Gibson Farone-Collins: Being a foreigner over there.
214 00:26:43.550 ⇒ 00:26:55.260 Robert Tseng: Well, actually, I don’t know what you think of when you think of those areas, but the… they’re… they’re very much… they look like Hapas, or like half… half-white, half Asian kind of….
215 00:26:55.260 ⇒ 00:26:55.940 Gibson Farone-Collins: Correct.
216 00:26:56.100 ⇒ 00:27:01.269 Robert Tseng: They look like… they look like me, but, like, brown hair and brown eyes. Like, that’s, like….
217 00:27:01.270 ⇒ 00:27:01.710 Gibson Farone-Collins: Sure.
218 00:27:01.710 ⇒ 00:27:11.399 Robert Tseng: That’s, like, the mix, so… I don’t… I don’t feel that foreign when I’m there. Like, I… like, look… looks-wise, it looks pretty similar. And then… yeah, I mean, the culture is pretty…
219 00:27:11.400 ⇒ 00:27:26.869 Robert Tseng: different, like, everyone’s Russian-speaking, so it’s definitely got more of that, like, put-together vibe of Moscow, like, the women wear stilettos, like, walking everywhere, a lot of just, like, long dresses and stuff, and, it definitely feels less relaxed,
220 00:27:26.870 ⇒ 00:27:36.560 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I think people are very polite and hospitable and stuff, so it’s… I mean, I’m used to it now, I think. I’m sure it’s probably changed since last time I went, but we’ll see.
221 00:27:36.560 ⇒ 00:27:37.710 Gibson Farone-Collins: That’s so cool.
222 00:27:37.710 ⇒ 00:27:38.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
223 00:27:38.100 ⇒ 00:27:42.310 Gibson Farone-Collins: And so it… is it… are you just focused on this work thing, or are you doing any, like…
224 00:27:42.710 ⇒ 00:27:44.220 Gibson Farone-Collins: touristy stuff.
225 00:27:44.520 ⇒ 00:27:47.210 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, a few… I’m probably, like.
226 00:27:47.260 ⇒ 00:28:06.519 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, like, 5 days will be work-related stuff, or we’re just meeting a bunch of people, I guess, which I think is kind of fun. Touristy stuff? I don’t know, I’m not really going to anything new that I haven’t been to before, so… anything, I’ll just probably, hang out with some friends that I know there, yeah.
227 00:28:07.130 ⇒ 00:28:08.239 Gibson Farone-Collins: That’s amazing.
228 00:28:08.240 ⇒ 00:28:26.629 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so it’ll just be a week there, then come back, have a conference in Chicago, we’re going to Shop Talk, so, we’ll be there and try to, I don’t know, drum up some business, and yeah, so that’s… that’s September. It’ll be a lot of travel, but, yeah, that’s what I have going. What about you?
229 00:28:26.630 ⇒ 00:28:27.270 Gibson Farone-Collins: Cool.
230 00:28:27.710 ⇒ 00:28:34.830 Gibson Farone-Collins: Nothing that exciting. We have a couple weddings in SoCal this weekend and next weekend, so we’re…
231 00:28:35.230 ⇒ 00:28:37.010 Gibson Farone-Collins: gonna be out in LA.
232 00:28:37.010 ⇒ 00:28:37.740 Robert Tseng: Oh, nice!
233 00:28:37.740 ⇒ 00:28:41.180 Gibson Farone-Collins: Area for, like, 10 days, I think it’ll be total?
234 00:28:41.180 ⇒ 00:28:41.740 Robert Tseng: Cool.
235 00:28:42.050 ⇒ 00:28:42.790 Gibson Farone-Collins: Huh.
236 00:28:43.070 ⇒ 00:28:44.400 Gibson Farone-Collins: And then…
237 00:28:45.300 ⇒ 00:28:58.589 Gibson Farone-Collins: I don’t have any… I don’t have any plane flights booked after that. Yeah. Imagine a work trip or two will come up, but, like, domestic Tuesday to Thursday kind of thing. Yeah. So, I am…
238 00:28:58.930 ⇒ 00:29:01.629 Gibson Farone-Collins: I’m looking forward to a few months on the ground.
239 00:29:01.910 ⇒ 00:29:03.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
240 00:29:03.330 ⇒ 00:29:12.649 Robert Tseng: Yeah, my last trip was, like, last time I saw you, so I feel like I’ve been staying put for, you know, 5-6 weeks at this point. I can go out for a week, yeah.
241 00:29:12.650 ⇒ 00:29:19.499 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah. Cool. Wow. I’m super jealous. That sounds really fun.
242 00:29:19.940 ⇒ 00:29:29.559 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, it’s fun. I’ll let you know how it goes. I guess, like, one exotic food, or I don’t know how exotic it is, but they eat horse, or, like, horse products.
243 00:29:30.350 ⇒ 00:29:30.940 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
244 00:29:31.360 ⇒ 00:29:32.330 Robert Tseng: So…
245 00:29:32.690 ⇒ 00:29:47.150 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think, I… one thing I’ll bring back, and hopefully if I see you come to New York, I’ll save you some, because it’s shelf-stable, but … it’s, like, fermented horse milk yogurt, that’s, like, dried up in, like, these…
246 00:29:47.380 ⇒ 00:29:51.870 Robert Tseng: Like, they look like… chewables, I guess. Huh!
247 00:29:52.060 ⇒ 00:29:59.840 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it looks like chalk, that’s what… that was the word that was coming to mind. But it definitely… I mean, I used to eat chalk when I was a kid, but it doesn’t taste like chalk.
248 00:29:59.840 ⇒ 00:30:06.719 Gibson Farone-Collins: Yeah. What does horse meat taste like? I imagine it’s pretty… gamey?
249 00:30:06.880 ⇒ 00:30:10.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s very gamey. … I think…
250 00:30:11.060 ⇒ 00:30:19.509 Robert Tseng: I mean, it’s… it’s… it’s very… it’s stronger than beef. It’s got a really… it’s got a really meaty taste to it. Definitely…
251 00:30:20.050 ⇒ 00:30:24.740 Robert Tseng: high iron content to it. Yeah, and….
252 00:30:24.740 ⇒ 00:30:25.300 Gibson Farone-Collins: Bye.
253 00:30:25.830 ⇒ 00:30:31.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t know, they love it there. It’s like they’re… it’s like a national food delicacy kind of thing, so….
254 00:30:31.000 ⇒ 00:30:33.059 Gibson Farone-Collins: That’s… that’s crazy. Cool!
255 00:30:33.140 ⇒ 00:30:34.350 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
256 00:30:34.640 ⇒ 00:30:35.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
257 00:30:35.720 ⇒ 00:30:36.270 Robert Tseng: So….
258 00:30:36.510 ⇒ 00:30:38.740 Gibson Farone-Collins: Well, enjoy, and we will catch up.
259 00:30:39.090 ⇒ 00:30:40.180 Gibson Farone-Collins: next month.
260 00:30:40.180 ⇒ 00:30:40.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
261 00:30:41.620 ⇒ 00:30:44.679 Robert Tseng: Cool. Alright, well, catching up with you, Gibson.
262 00:30:44.910 ⇒ 00:30:48.020 Gibson Farone-Collins: Likewise. Yep. Talk soon. Talk to you later.