Meeting Title: Self-Serve Funnel Strategy Check-in Date: 2025-08-14 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Phoebe Miller
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1 00:01:31.950 ⇒ 00:01:33.390 Robert Tseng: Hey, if you’d be.
2 00:01:33.830 ⇒ 00:01:36.650 Robert Tseng: You were muted, and I was camera off.
3 00:01:38.270 ⇒ 00:01:39.349 Robert Tseng: I think you’re still muted.
4 00:01:39.350 ⇒ 00:01:40.879 Phoebe Miller: Oh, I’m still muted.
5 00:01:41.910 ⇒ 00:01:44.819 Phoebe Miller: Sorry, I, I’m running all over today.
6 00:01:44.820 ⇒ 00:01:46.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah, same, all good.
7 00:01:46.540 ⇒ 00:01:52.480 Phoebe Miller: Hold on, give me one second to get organized. Okay, all right. How are you doing? How are things?
8 00:01:53.400 ⇒ 00:02:00.620 Robert Tseng: Good, yeah, today’s kind of one of those days where just, like, a lot of random 30-minute gaps between meetings, and, like.
9 00:02:00.620 ⇒ 00:02:01.680 Phoebe Miller: I hate those.
10 00:02:01.680 ⇒ 00:02:05.420 Robert Tseng: Like, try to do something, and you never really finish it, so….
11 00:02:05.420 ⇒ 00:02:15.400 Phoebe Miller: I always try to, like, block my stuff out, because those 30 minutes between meetings, I just, like, end up twiddling my thumbs, like, paralyzed by all the things I can’t get done in 30 minutes, so….
12 00:02:15.400 ⇒ 00:02:16.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
13 00:02:16.310 ⇒ 00:02:17.120 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
14 00:02:17.410 ⇒ 00:02:18.300 Phoebe Miller: Yeah.
15 00:02:18.660 ⇒ 00:02:23.730 Phoebe Miller: Anyways, … so thanks for sending over the proposals. I think…
16 00:02:24.380 ⇒ 00:02:43.110 Phoebe Miller: we can just chat through, like, what makes sense for our use case. I do have a fair bit, now that I’m, like, back in the swing of things that I want to get moving on. Sweet, yeah. I think I’m having some trouble understanding, like, what it is that the team you suggested…
17 00:02:43.200 ⇒ 00:02:46.860 Phoebe Miller: would do differently than, like, you would. ….
18 00:02:46.860 ⇒ 00:02:47.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
19 00:02:47.570 ⇒ 00:02:49.580 Phoebe Miller: For the same… for the same cost.
20 00:02:49.890 ⇒ 00:02:50.860 Phoebe Miller: Yeah.
21 00:02:50.990 ⇒ 00:02:57.510 Phoebe Miller: So, maybe I can tell you a little bit about, like, the things that are… about my priorities, and then we can… we can…
22 00:02:58.010 ⇒ 00:03:00.839 Phoebe Miller: based off of that, decide kind of what makes sense. So….
23 00:03:00.840 ⇒ 00:03:01.400 Robert Tseng: Okay.
24 00:03:02.000 ⇒ 00:03:03.060 Phoebe Miller: …
25 00:03:04.580 ⇒ 00:03:20.510 Phoebe Miller: now that we have tracking in place, for the most part, I would say, I still feel like I’m struggling on a weekly basis to just have, like, an oversimplified view of
26 00:03:21.340 ⇒ 00:03:27.659 Phoebe Miller: sign-ups, … or I guess, like, maybe it’s… it’s a funnel of, like, visitors.
27 00:03:27.870 ⇒ 00:03:32.720 Phoebe Miller: Successful signups, and then customers.
28 00:03:32.780 ⇒ 00:03:48.499 Phoebe Miller: like, that… that funnel. I just want to, like, stare at that every week. Yeah. And understand how the previous week performed. That’s, like, table stakes. And then, on top of that, as we layer on these, updates.
29 00:03:48.840 ⇒ 00:03:59.829 Phoebe Miller: to that funnel, so, like, the, the introduction of, like, the branch on the sign-up, or, like, the introduction of Coach Marks, then I want to be very…
30 00:03:59.920 ⇒ 00:04:17.320 Phoebe Miller: easily able to understand how people are interacting with those, I guess, you know, updates or whatever, new buttons, and how it is affecting the overall funnel. So, like, those… those are my priorities. It’s, like, a… a…
31 00:04:17.519 ⇒ 00:04:25.650 Phoebe Miller: quite simple, something I can look at every single week or every single day to understand how the overall funnel is performing, and then…
32 00:04:26.200 ⇒ 00:04:37.479 Phoebe Miller: Slightly more detailed tracking on the experiments we run, understanding how those are performing, understanding how they’re affecting the funnel that we look at every day, every week, so that we’re able to make changes quickly.
33 00:04:38.600 ⇒ 00:04:41.249 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that makes sense. I think, kind of that…
34 00:04:41.280 ⇒ 00:04:59.219 Robert Tseng: your… your table stakes view, just those core metrics on just, like, basic… basic growth metrics you want to be able to see clearly. And then, yeah, once you have, like, that funnel, yeah, the way you develop it is you keep kind of looking for, like, the in-between steps, and you add more tracking here and there, and try to build out more of that story. So…
35 00:04:59.220 ⇒ 00:05:08.329 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, I think, and so that, to me, at least the first, the first step is very just execution, so I think, like, I can be definitely…
36 00:05:08.570 ⇒ 00:05:16.820 Robert Tseng: you know, I just have more people working on stuff, and so they’ll be able to just run at things faster. Yeah. And then I think the second part of, like, knowing, like.
37 00:05:16.820 ⇒ 00:05:34.319 Robert Tseng: what steps to track? What are some things that you haven’t considered? I think that, to me, is the strategy piece. So, the way that I… we typically structure engagements is they start with 3 people, like, it would be a lead, so I’d probably still be there, because I’d be the one you probably talk to, and we can talk, higher level things, and…
38 00:05:34.360 ⇒ 00:05:51.049 Robert Tseng: yeah, kind of build… build a roadmap or whatever, and then I have a PM, who… she would just manage all the communications, pretty much, making sure that we’re giving you updates, asking any questions with good people, and then I would staff, like, one analyst with me, so…
39 00:05:51.150 ⇒ 00:05:56.129 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we have a couple people on the bench, that I feel like
40 00:05:56.450 ⇒ 00:06:00.380 Robert Tseng: I mean, they’d love to work on a new project, so I’d like to bring them in.
41 00:06:00.510 ⇒ 00:06:11.749 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I feel like that just, like, that you would get more hours, that way, and I think you’ll see the volume of reports be significantly more. I think, …
42 00:06:11.980 ⇒ 00:06:19.010 Robert Tseng: yeah, like, I… rather than just, you know, me just kind of running things end-to-end, so… I think that’s…
43 00:06:19.270 ⇒ 00:06:23.400 Robert Tseng: That sounds like that’s the preference, but, you know, if it’s more, like.
44 00:06:23.640 ⇒ 00:06:30.209 Robert Tseng: hey, you know, you prefer to go work for me, and like, you know, it’s… it’s just, more…
45 00:06:31.190 ⇒ 00:06:42.440 Robert Tseng: if it was more just, like, we need to strategize, like, on what to track, what types of reports to build, and then, like, kind of train someone internally to go and build those out, then I think that’s more of, like, a… I would just probably just do that myself.
46 00:06:42.440 ⇒ 00:06:49.299 Phoebe Miller: Right, no, that makes sense. Yeah, it’s the former. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess, …
47 00:06:49.660 ⇒ 00:06:53.519 Phoebe Miller: Did my proposal of 30 hours at 5K make sense?
48 00:06:53.800 ⇒ 00:06:54.849 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we can do that.
49 00:06:54.850 ⇒ 00:07:07.359 Phoebe Miller: Okay, cool. Yeah. That’s great. And then, I don’t know, you know, how long this will last, like, how long we’re planning to, like, run experiments for. I guess.
50 00:07:07.740 ⇒ 00:07:11.699 Phoebe Miller: Is this just… do you guys work month to month on resource planning?
51 00:07:12.200 ⇒ 00:07:16.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah, month-to-month is preferred, yeah, just gives me, like, heads up to kind of know who to put.
52 00:07:17.020 ⇒ 00:07:33.720 Robert Tseng: And yeah, as needs change, like, I think the benefit is that, hey, you don’t, you know, we don’t really need an amplitude person anymore after a certain point. Like, we want to go into more data engineering, because there’s more, kind of, like, you realize you want to connect with data sources. Then I would just swap out the analyst or engineer, and so…
53 00:07:33.720 ⇒ 00:07:38.260 Robert Tseng: At least, that’s what we’ve… that’s what clients tell us. They enjoy working with us, because…
54 00:07:38.260 ⇒ 00:07:53.719 Robert Tseng: they don’t have to think about, like, who are all the specialists they need to, like, make this work. Like, we kind of have, like, the full range, so depending on the needs, we can kind of… we can staff accordingly. And then, obviously, since I’ve worked across the stack, like, I would still be able to be… I would know how to
55 00:07:53.980 ⇒ 00:08:02.920 Robert Tseng: like, architect any part of the stack, so I would be the full-stacked, person that’s still on it. But as far as, like, you know, having
56 00:08:03.220 ⇒ 00:08:10.269 Robert Tseng: fingers to keys, and when we’re building things out, we have, like, a, you know, set of people that execute. Yeah.
57 00:08:11.040 ⇒ 00:08:14.439 Phoebe Miller: Okay, that sounds great. Let’s do that then. …
58 00:08:15.190 ⇒ 00:08:19.150 Phoebe Miller: Could you help me? So, I have, you know, …
59 00:08:19.500 ⇒ 00:08:24.939 Phoebe Miller: a meeting on Monday. I have two meetings now, a meeting on Monday and a meeting on Tuesday. One to, like, report up.
60 00:08:25.000 ⇒ 00:08:44.899 Phoebe Miller: how the self-serve conversion team is doing, and then on Tuesday, the meeting is to, like, work with the team actually implementing the experiments. So, on Monday, I want to come into that meeting being like, okay, this is, you know, what the last week looked like as far as… or maybe it’s the last couple of weeks, just to, like, level…
61 00:08:44.900 ⇒ 00:08:48.180 Phoebe Miller: Of… traffic.
62 00:08:48.800 ⇒ 00:08:50.060 Phoebe Miller: sign-ups.
63 00:08:50.500 ⇒ 00:08:53.599 Phoebe Miller: And I guess customer conversions.
64 00:08:53.950 ⇒ 00:08:57.389 Phoebe Miller: Could we start there, and then…
65 00:08:58.420 ⇒ 00:09:17.460 Phoebe Miller: the follow-up exercise is, like, these are the two experiments we’ve already run, the branch on the onboarding and the coach marks, and, like, this is the engagement with those experiments and how they’ve impacted the funnel. And then the final request is…
66 00:09:17.610 ⇒ 00:09:22.080 Phoebe Miller: I want to understand, historically, now that we have a couple of weeks of data.
67 00:09:22.430 ⇒ 00:09:34.930 Phoebe Miller: people who sign up and do or… what features they do or don’t implement, whether… and then, you know, whether or not they convert. Like, that’s the data splunking exercise that I don’t think we ever really got around to, of, like.
68 00:09:34.990 ⇒ 00:09:44.440 Phoebe Miller: Yeah. They have the, you know, this on, and not that, and this and that, and like, this is the perfect combination, you know, the perfect cocktail of things to get someone to be… to launch.
69 00:09:44.620 ⇒ 00:09:45.150 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
70 00:09:45.150 ⇒ 00:09:45.659 Phoebe Miller: Maybe it’s, like.
71 00:09:45.660 ⇒ 00:09:46.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so….
72 00:09:46.240 ⇒ 00:09:46.890 Phoebe Miller: requests.
73 00:09:47.440 ⇒ 00:09:54.140 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so to me, the latter one probably… the last one probably takes the longest, more like a cohort exploration exercise, trying to figure out, like.
74 00:09:54.370 ⇒ 00:10:00.559 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like you said, like, what’s, what’s the mix of activities, like, kind of segmenting it out by that?
75 00:10:00.560 ⇒ 00:10:01.690 Phoebe Miller: Yeah. ….
76 00:10:02.020 ⇒ 00:10:04.549 Robert Tseng: So, like, yeah, I mean, we… I…
77 00:10:06.300 ⇒ 00:10:15.210 Robert Tseng: I mean, assuming we start off, like, I mean, I think we could… we could chunk off some time over, like, tomorrow to… to do that, ….
78 00:10:15.230 ⇒ 00:10:27.810 Phoebe Miller: I, like, most importantly is I wanna, I just wanna go into the meeting on Monday prepared to say, okay, over the last 4 weeks, we’ve had X signups.
79 00:10:28.270 ⇒ 00:10:34.769 Phoebe Miller: Of those people, X became customers. That’s, like.
80 00:10:34.770 ⇒ 00:10:35.370 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
81 00:10:35.750 ⇒ 00:10:46.389 Phoebe Miller: need to have that on Monday. Yeah. And then, I imagine the follow-up question will be, okay, in the last 4 weeks, we also released this branch
82 00:10:46.520 ⇒ 00:10:48.909 Phoebe Miller: You know, this new onboarding branch.
83 00:10:49.150 ⇒ 00:11:01.910 Phoebe Miller: And we, just yesterday, released Coach Marks, so I don’t need to update on Coach Marks just yet, but I do need to have, the onboarding branch, like, I can’t say with confidence,
84 00:11:02.160 ⇒ 00:11:05.389 Phoebe Miller: Is that helping? Is that hurting? You know?
85 00:11:05.800 ⇒ 00:11:06.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
86 00:11:07.910 ⇒ 00:11:10.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I, I, I, yeah, we could, we could, …
87 00:11:10.930 ⇒ 00:11:14.269 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think there’s a simple way to kind of tell that. It’s just…
88 00:11:14.610 ⇒ 00:11:25.650 Robert Tseng: two groups of users, whether or not they’ve used that new onboarding branch, I probably just have to figure out, like, what, what triggers that would be, but I’m sure that’s just, like, a…
89 00:11:25.860 ⇒ 00:11:31.010 Robert Tseng: You know, what defines, like, actual usage is just looking at it, or, like, you know, what was, like, a…
90 00:11:31.150 ⇒ 00:11:50.069 Robert Tseng: what counts if somebody actually having used the product? Maybe we could do three, like, viewed, used, and, like, not… not even seen. Yeah. And then we can kind of go off of the signups, and also cus… or, I mean, everyone would be a sign-up at that point, so whether or not they become customers, or, like, does that lead to more activity? Like, I think there’s a… there’s a couple ways to tell that.
91 00:11:50.070 ⇒ 00:12:06.399 Phoebe Miller: Yeah, I guess, like, even looking at Amplitude now, I don’t even know where to look. Like, Falco did all that work, but it’s like, I don’t know where to look to understand what… like, if I want to go in and understand what’s being utilized, I don’t even know where to start.
92 00:12:06.830 ⇒ 00:12:07.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
93 00:12:08.050 ⇒ 00:12:14.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think there are a lot of… well, with the auto tracker, there’s just a lot of things being tracked, …
94 00:12:15.370 ⇒ 00:12:30.499 Robert Tseng: yeah, I think, hopefully it’s, like, you know, you’re telling me, okay, folks that know use the Enhort branch, so, like, I would pretty much try to build it in such a way where now you have, like, a cohort that’s just, like, these are folks that use this product, so…
95 00:12:30.500 ⇒ 00:12:38.939 Robert Tseng: the next time you want to go and investigate that, like, you would… you would… like, I’ve already done that legwork, so you could kind of… you could navigate that more easily. So…
96 00:12:39.450 ⇒ 00:12:50.730 Robert Tseng: I suppose that it’s still kind of a translation exercise, kind of, like, from what you want to, like, what the telemetry actually tells you versus, like, how you actually define the events.
97 00:12:50.960 ⇒ 00:12:52.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that’s…
98 00:12:52.620 ⇒ 00:12:58.730 Robert Tseng: In the early stages, it’s just kind of like that until you know what those, like, core
99 00:12:58.900 ⇒ 00:13:03.459 Robert Tseng: Like, features are, like, and how they actually…
100 00:13:03.610 ⇒ 00:13:23.240 Robert Tseng: how they’re actually defined, because, you know, like, certain features usage could just be, like, watching a video. I’m not saying this is necessarily unique to your product, but to just be watching a video. It’s very… it’s a very passive action, whereas others are, you know, there’s more of, like, a click-through kind of situation. So, I think that’s kind of where it’s…
101 00:13:23.420 ⇒ 00:13:26.620 Robert Tseng: There is, some range of, like.
102 00:13:27.190 ⇒ 00:13:44.140 Robert Tseng: like, even when you think is usage is maybe not, like, what I would see as usage, because I’m looking at, like, that event level, and there’s a lot of different, you know, things that you would have to stitch together to break the definition of, like, use this feature. So, …
103 00:13:44.320 ⇒ 00:13:46.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that gets easier over time, but yeah.
104 00:13:46.430 ⇒ 00:13:51.570 Phoebe Miller: Yeah, in general, like, I, I understand that. I’m hoping…
105 00:13:51.680 ⇒ 00:14:01.329 Phoebe Miller: in the beginning, because it gets easier over time, that we can, like, oversimplify. And even… even when I look at this, for example, …
106 00:14:01.610 ⇒ 00:14:10.329 Phoebe Miller: I don’t… I don’t understand how certain things are being defined, right? So, like, sign-up view, sign-up success.
107 00:14:10.800 ⇒ 00:14:21.290 Phoebe Miller: project created, like, … Where… is it documented somewhere how these are defined?
108 00:14:21.990 ⇒ 00:14:35.510 Robert Tseng: It is. I… yeah, I did give a tracking plan to Falfa to kind of build off of, so these events are all defined there. And… yeah, I think kind of, like, as I include any
109 00:14:35.590 ⇒ 00:14:45.649 Robert Tseng: events in the… in reporting, that should update in the track… or I would… I would update it in the tracking plan.
110 00:14:45.650 ⇒ 00:14:46.909 Phoebe Miller: Oh, do I have that?
111 00:14:48.070 ⇒ 00:14:58.189 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I… So, all executives, … We just called it the…
112 00:14:58.600 ⇒ 00:15:03.479 Robert Tseng: usage metrics and tracking plan templates, I can share it with you.
113 00:15:15.320 ⇒ 00:15:20.310 Phoebe Miller: Because, like, if I’m looking at this, is this saying that… comparing…
114 00:15:21.570 ⇒ 00:15:27.689 Phoebe Miller: like, are these… is this apples to apples to 90-day periods? Because other… like, that means that sign-ups are way down, right?
115 00:15:29.480 ⇒ 00:15:30.660 Robert Tseng: …
116 00:15:34.420 ⇒ 00:15:37.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that is what it seems like.
117 00:15:37.640 ⇒ 00:15:41.850 Phoebe Miller: Is it saying, like, the last 90 days compared to the 90 days prior?
118 00:15:41.850 ⇒ 00:15:42.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
119 00:15:43.040 ⇒ 00:15:46.939 Phoebe Miller: That’s bad. And then, is this…
120 00:15:47.860 ⇒ 00:15:50.500 Phoebe Miller: Oh, hold on, let me look at your tracking plan.
121 00:15:51.530 ⇒ 00:15:54.370 Phoebe Miller: … Okay.
122 00:16:00.910 ⇒ 00:16:13.269 Robert Tseng: So, we could trans… I mean, well, there’s, you know, events, triggers of, like, what causes the event to be logged, and then the definitions of the properties itself, but you probably just look at events and triggers to get a sense of it.
123 00:16:13.560 ⇒ 00:16:14.590 Robert Tseng: ….
124 00:16:17.630 ⇒ 00:16:24.170 Phoebe Miller: User signage says, okay, when the user profile is created within the system, is invite…
125 00:16:27.920 ⇒ 00:16:33.430 Phoebe Miller: Well, we don’t want invited… Well…
126 00:16:34.480 ⇒ 00:16:40.489 Phoebe Miller: I don’t wanna… can we pull that out? Because, like, for new sign-ups…
127 00:16:41.170 ⇒ 00:16:44.019 Phoebe Miller: Right? That’ll inflate if we have invited.
128 00:16:48.150 ⇒ 00:16:50.699 Robert Tseng: Sorry, what do you mean?
129 00:16:50.700 ⇒ 00:16:57.400 Phoebe Miller: If we’re looking only at… like, I wanna… so the funnel that I want to look at is new signups.
130 00:16:57.610 ⇒ 00:16:59.639 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that are not invited, sure, yeah.
131 00:16:59.640 ⇒ 00:17:00.970 Phoebe Miller: Right. So you want to film?
132 00:17:00.970 ⇒ 00:17:02.270 Robert Tseng: filter those out. Yeah.
133 00:17:02.270 ⇒ 00:17:03.530 Phoebe Miller: I think so, yeah.
134 00:17:03.530 ⇒ 00:17:04.569 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay.
135 00:17:04.940 ⇒ 00:17:05.430 Phoebe Miller: ….
136 00:17:05.430 ⇒ 00:17:11.270 Robert Tseng: I… I feel like that might already be… but I don’t… I… I’ll… I can make sure, yeah.
137 00:17:11.270 ⇒ 00:17:18.669 Phoebe Miller: Okay, that’s the thing, it’s like, I don’t… I don’t feel like I have clarity on how these funnel stages are defined.
138 00:17:19.160 ⇒ 00:17:22.679 Phoebe Miller: So, like, okay, like, what does sign-up success?
139 00:17:23.520 ⇒ 00:17:24.910 Phoebe Miller: is invited.
140 00:17:25.160 ⇒ 00:17:32.499 Phoebe Miller: Or their email was provided, right? Okay. What is sign… sign-up view? Just they viewed the sign-up page?
141 00:17:33.170 ⇒ 00:17:41.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I guess that’s just how they started. Any of the view events, that’s just, like, the page of, like, the… before the action is taken, so…
142 00:17:41.730 ⇒ 00:17:53.189 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s, … he substituted out, like, page viewed, like, whatever the page… like, yeah, the word page is substituted with whatever the actual page is called.
143 00:17:53.190 ⇒ 00:17:56.420 Phoebe Miller: But sir, are we saying that… sign-ups.
144 00:17:56.820 ⇒ 00:18:04.130 Phoebe Miller: I know this includes invited, so it might be skewed in the previous, but, like, are in half, almost, right? Probably, like….
145 00:18:04.130 ⇒ 00:18:09.119 Robert Tseng: Yeah, people who start, like, half of them actually, sign up.
146 00:18:09.320 ⇒ 00:18:13.169 Phoebe Miller: No, but then, like, in the last 90 days compared to the 90 days prior.
147 00:18:13.280 ⇒ 00:18:15.570 Phoebe Miller: This is down, like, by 40%.
148 00:18:17.320 ⇒ 00:18:22.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but I mean, has it really… has it even been 90%… or, …
149 00:18:23.660 ⇒ 00:18:34.529 Robert Tseng: 90 days since he implemented it, like… I mean, I would probably take this, and I would replot this over… I’d turn into just that first two steps, I would make it a line chart, I’d look at over time.
150 00:18:34.670 ⇒ 00:18:42.029 Robert Tseng: see, you know, when Falco actually implemented events, is there, like, kind of an artificial spike or drop because of
151 00:18:42.260 ⇒ 00:18:53.829 Robert Tseng: the… the… just the change in telemetry, or, you know, if it’s something we can exclude there, and try to normalize it to make sure. I mean, that’s what it looks like from this, but I… I think I would probably check
152 00:18:53.950 ⇒ 00:18:57.669 Robert Tseng: … I would do a check to make sure.
153 00:18:57.670 ⇒ 00:19:15.719 Phoebe Miller: What I’m getting at is, like, I don’t even know if I can trust what I’m looking at here based off of what you’re saying, which I agree with. It’s the same reason why I haven’t, like, shown this to anyone, but it’s like, okay, this is… this… this paints a really, really poor picture, right? And…
154 00:19:15.830 ⇒ 00:19:23.029 Phoebe Miller: I don’t know if it’s true or accurate, but if it is, like, I have to tell someone, right?
155 00:19:23.030 ⇒ 00:19:23.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
156 00:19:23.990 ⇒ 00:19:27.569 Phoebe Miller: So, what… what I need to know is, like.
157 00:19:27.810 ⇒ 00:19:37.950 Phoebe Miller: sign up… these are the correct funnel stages of, like, I’m imagining that this is, like, viewed this page.
158 00:19:40.020 ⇒ 00:19:42.110 Phoebe Miller: I might be logged in, so let me log out.
159 00:19:42.240 ⇒ 00:19:44.160 Phoebe Miller: Like, view this page, right?
160 00:19:45.280 ⇒ 00:19:45.810 Robert Tseng: Yep.
161 00:19:45.980 ⇒ 00:19:53.820 Phoebe Miller: Okay, that would be great. If that is, in fact, that, that would be great. And then sign-up success is, like, name and email, excluding invited.
162 00:19:54.370 ⇒ 00:19:58.659 Phoebe Miller: That… if that is true, that’s great. I think it includes invited, maybe it doesn’t, I don’t know.
163 00:19:59.080 ⇒ 00:20:01.970 Phoebe Miller: Project created would be…
164 00:20:02.350 ⇒ 00:20:11.479 Phoebe Miller: project created, that’s… that’s good. And then onboarding finish would be what they land in the dash.
165 00:20:13.230 ⇒ 00:20:25.439 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think what would be helpful is if I just kind of, … I would… when I reshare this, like, I’m sure I’ll run some checks, I’ll, … I’ll record, I’ll also screen record, just, like.
166 00:20:25.840 ⇒ 00:20:33.549 Robert Tseng: each step of the funnel, like, so you can visually see, like, what these events are correlated to. Yeah, maybe that’s… that would just be helpful.
167 00:20:33.550 ⇒ 00:20:41.720 Phoebe Miller: That would be great. Ultimately, like, I just… I want to… like I said, I want a funnel I can look at and stare at that shows…
168 00:20:41.770 ⇒ 00:20:53.689 Phoebe Miller: and maybe, maybe we just do one week compared to the previous week, or month compared to the previous month, until we have, you know, 90 days even to compare to. But, …
169 00:20:54.810 ⇒ 00:20:58.690 Phoebe Miller: So, this would be the fun… like, this would be the funnel, yes. Sign-ups.
170 00:20:59.200 ⇒ 00:21:08.269 Phoebe Miller: sign of success, project creation, onboarding finish. I agree, those would be the stages, and then maybe, like, one additional would be, like, customer, right? Yep.
171 00:21:08.540 ⇒ 00:21:13.899 Phoebe Miller: And then… Which I guess you have here, so…
172 00:21:14.170 ⇒ 00:21:19.340 Phoebe Miller: Hit the manage plan, view that page, great, and then….
173 00:21:19.340 ⇒ 00:21:22.519 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s when you hit that upper right-hand corner button, you get rerouted. Yep.
174 00:21:23.160 ⇒ 00:21:24.190 Phoebe Miller: …
175 00:21:25.520 ⇒ 00:21:34.209 Phoebe Miller: Okay, so the volume… the total volume is down, but the conversion is up. Okay. Again, like, I don’t know if these… if you trust these, …
176 00:21:35.180 ⇒ 00:21:36.110 Phoebe Miller: events.
177 00:21:37.330 ⇒ 00:21:38.279 Phoebe Miller: Do you?
178 00:21:39.320 ⇒ 00:21:39.910 Phoebe Miller: Chat, like.
179 00:21:39.910 ⇒ 00:21:40.760 Robert Tseng: Right, yeah.
180 00:21:41.300 ⇒ 00:21:49.989 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t see a reason why not to. I mean, maybe we’re missing a couple exclusions that, like, we’re not sure, but, like, some onboarding finish, which I think is a pretty…
181 00:21:50.530 ⇒ 00:21:56.540 Robert Tseng: This would be a pretty straightforward event that we’ve tracked, I think that was already there, or whatever, to…
182 00:21:56.840 ⇒ 00:22:07.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, you may lose some when you… when you do the manage plan, because it reroutes to a different URL, so maybe there’s, like, some drop-off there that’s coming… just coming from… there’s always, like, kind of, let me…
183 00:22:08.090 ⇒ 00:22:12.070 Robert Tseng: Things that you could say about why things are not so precise, but….
184 00:22:12.450 ⇒ 00:22:13.050 Phoebe Miller: Hmm.
185 00:22:13.470 ⇒ 00:22:17.180 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I mean, I think that direction, that’s… that’s… I think I would… I would believe that.
186 00:22:18.470 ⇒ 00:22:24.170 Phoebe Miller: Okay, and, … Why would the onboarding finish?
187 00:22:24.330 ⇒ 00:22:26.699 Phoebe Miller: Here be different than here.
188 00:22:28.390 ⇒ 00:22:36.640 Robert Tseng: So… I think where they land, from onboarding finish to…
189 00:22:37.390 ⇒ 00:22:42.849 Robert Tseng: like, I think this funnel, I think it… from the one that’s above, it’s… it’s starting, like.
190 00:22:43.030 ⇒ 00:22:50.610 Robert Tseng: I don’t… I forgot what I set it to in terms of, like, day… if sign-up to conversion is all within the same day, or 7 days, or whatever.
191 00:22:50.610 ⇒ 00:22:50.970 Phoebe Miller: Got it.
192 00:22:50.970 ⇒ 00:22:56.989 Robert Tseng: Versus somebody… like, that… the second report is, like, kind of a bigger bucket, so I would expect the fund to be a bigger…
193 00:22:57.130 ⇒ 00:22:58.550 Robert Tseng: Okay. Cool. People.
194 00:22:58.550 ⇒ 00:23:01.269 Phoebe Miller: Okay, so this, this one makes…
195 00:23:01.470 ⇒ 00:23:08.130 Phoebe Miller: more sense to me. Yeah. These are, like, to me, clearly defined.
196 00:23:09.760 ⇒ 00:23:18.300 Phoebe Miller: And it tells a slightly, like, a more compelling story that the people who are onboarding are then…
197 00:23:18.670 ⇒ 00:23:21.929 Phoebe Miller: Reviewing the managed plan and converting.
198 00:23:22.490 ⇒ 00:23:30.619 Phoebe Miller: at a higher rate than they did previously, although the volume in total is down, because it’s… the entire volume is down across the funnel. Okay.
199 00:23:31.520 ⇒ 00:23:32.060 Phoebe Miller: But this.
200 00:23:32.060 ⇒ 00:23:46.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I would just take that, and I would just kind of do a before and after off of the features that you feel like move the needle, and we could just look at a diff and diff, kind of week before, week after, to see if that has changed when, you know, the,
201 00:23:46.820 ⇒ 00:23:53.200 Phoebe Miller: What feature, like, the onboarding branch would launch, versus the coaching marks, or whatever, so, like, that’d be a way to kind of.
202 00:23:55.060 ⇒ 00:23:57.830 Robert Tseng: Start to fill in some of the blanks on…
203 00:23:58.370 ⇒ 00:24:01.949 Robert Tseng: how are people using this product? Is it driving that behavior that you want? Yeah.
204 00:24:01.950 ⇒ 00:24:02.540 Phoebe Miller: Right.
205 00:24:03.370 ⇒ 00:24:08.129 Phoebe Miller: Okay. Then, then this, ….
206 00:24:11.940 ⇒ 00:24:15.560 Robert Tseng: This was, like, based on their initial selection, when they…
207 00:24:15.670 ⇒ 00:24:21.290 Robert Tseng: are signing up, I guess, or, yeah, we call onboard… I mean, onboarding.
208 00:24:21.510 ⇒ 00:24:27.510 Robert Tseng: If they’re skipping the… file upload, or uploading it, or just going the manual route.
209 00:24:27.940 ⇒ 00:24:33.629 Robert Tseng: Does that impact, … them getting to…
210 00:24:33.750 ⇒ 00:24:38.800 Robert Tseng: Like, the… like, actually viewing payment plans and possibly making a change.
211 00:24:38.800 ⇒ 00:24:39.300 Phoebe Miller: Yeah.
212 00:24:39.420 ⇒ 00:24:45.810 Phoebe Miller: But I think… I think… so that one makes sense to me, but I think what we’re missing is…
213 00:24:46.320 ⇒ 00:24:54.689 Phoebe Miller: Is the launch of this branch actually affecting the… the… the funnel.
214 00:24:55.610 ⇒ 00:25:04.450 Phoebe Miller: Like, are less… are less people finishing onboarding altogether because of the introduction of that branch, because it’s, like, confusing?
215 00:25:06.160 ⇒ 00:25:06.830 Robert Tseng: Okay.
216 00:25:07.530 ⇒ 00:25:16.460 Phoebe Miller: So I don’t know, like, that’s, like, the one… what I want to be able to say on Monday is, like, number one, feel really good about this… this…
217 00:25:16.620 ⇒ 00:25:18.310 Phoebe Miller: Funnel.
218 00:25:18.480 ⇒ 00:25:22.920 Phoebe Miller: Which I think you spend time talking about, so that… that feels good. The second thing is, like.
219 00:25:23.190 ⇒ 00:25:29.739 Phoebe Miller: Do we need to roll back the… clearly, maybe this data’s wrong, but, like, based off of this.
220 00:25:29.870 ⇒ 00:25:33.519 Phoebe Miller: Sign-up success is down.
221 00:25:33.660 ⇒ 00:25:43.080 Phoebe Miller: as is project creation, as is onboarding finish, like, across… every… everything is… volume is down across the entire funnel. It might… it might be that, like, you know.
222 00:25:43.920 ⇒ 00:25:55.419 Phoebe Miller: total sign-up view is down, which is just trickling all the way down, but are there… are people dropping off here because they don’t like this new experience, right? Like, I don’t… I don’t know.
223 00:25:55.750 ⇒ 00:25:56.420 Robert Tseng: Sir?
224 00:25:56.660 ⇒ 00:25:59.709 Phoebe Miller: So I want to be able to go into the meeting and be like, okay.
225 00:26:00.140 ⇒ 00:26:06.559 Phoebe Miller: We should make the following changes to that branch, or we should leave it the same.
226 00:26:06.700 ⇒ 00:26:26.649 Phoebe Miller: this is why. And then the next one would be, like, doing the same for Coach Marks. Okay, we should make these changes to Coach Marks, leave it the same, this is why. How are… in general, how are those things affecting our self-serve funnel? Like, that… those are the types of conversations I need to be having, and, like, quite… quite quickly.
227 00:26:27.330 ⇒ 00:26:31.840 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, no, I hear you. Yeah, I know I haven’t touched these in a couple weeks.
228 00:26:31.840 ⇒ 00:26:34.190 Phoebe Miller: I haven’t either. Like, I haven’t either.
229 00:26:34.190 ⇒ 00:26:35.520 Robert Tseng: So, I’m coming, I’m….
230 00:26:35.520 ⇒ 00:26:41.990 Phoebe Miller: I’m coming in hot, but it’s like, I feel like right now, while we’re measuring a lot, none of it is, like.
231 00:26:42.390 ⇒ 00:26:45.149 Phoebe Miller: giving me the insight that I need.
232 00:26:45.420 ⇒ 00:26:48.530 Phoebe Miller: Because all… all I see here is, like, okay.
233 00:26:48.970 ⇒ 00:26:55.610 Phoebe Miller: well, the total sign-up view is down. Is that the reason everything else is down? I… maybe. I…
234 00:26:55.760 ⇒ 00:26:57.580 Phoebe Miller: It’s likely.
235 00:26:57.780 ⇒ 00:26:58.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
236 00:26:58.880 ⇒ 00:27:01.150 Phoebe Miller: But are there other things at play? I just don’t know.
237 00:27:01.580 ⇒ 00:27:07.379 Robert Tseng: Sure. Yeah, no, I think… I think there’s a lot of things that you could say. It’s like, well, maybe volume is down, but, like, if you’re still…
238 00:27:07.830 ⇒ 00:27:19.269 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t know what could be the driver of that. So, I mean, well, we have to verify it from the top, like, make sure that you trust those numbers, but yeah, then you can start to ask those questions. Is the quality of the traffic coming in that’s different?
239 00:27:19.310 ⇒ 00:27:26.180 Phoebe Miller: Right, especially because, like, I know that traffic is up, … Sorry, let me show you…
240 00:27:31.070 ⇒ 00:27:33.180 Phoebe Miller: Like, traffic is up.
241 00:27:34.590 ⇒ 00:27:41.469 Phoebe Miller: Well, it’s up in July compared to June, but it’s… down, I guess, compared to…
242 00:27:41.860 ⇒ 00:27:45.810 Phoebe Miller: months prior. So, that could be… Yeah. Yeah.
243 00:27:45.810 ⇒ 00:27:48.610 Robert Tseng: Well, yeah, for a quarter to quarter, that makes sense then, but yeah.
244 00:27:48.820 ⇒ 00:27:52.100 Phoebe Miller: But we didn’t have the tracking then, so, like, I don’t know, you know? I don’t know.
245 00:27:52.280 ⇒ 00:27:52.910 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
246 00:27:53.660 ⇒ 00:28:03.129 Phoebe Miller: I… if I could just… if by Monday, my meeting is, like, Monday afternoon, if by Monday I can go into the meeting I have.
247 00:28:03.290 ⇒ 00:28:09.369 Phoebe Miller: With a perspective on just those two things, like what the funnel looks like, maybe, you know.
248 00:28:09.900 ⇒ 00:28:15.380 Phoebe Miller: call it July 15 to August 15, compared to June 15 to July 15.
249 00:28:15.570 ⇒ 00:28:16.120 Robert Tseng: Yep.
250 00:28:16.120 ⇒ 00:28:20.990 Phoebe Miller: Would be helpful, and then a perspective on the onboarding branch.
251 00:28:21.350 ⇒ 00:28:24.199 Phoebe Miller: Because that’s the one experiment that we’ve successfully run.
252 00:28:24.830 ⇒ 00:28:29.900 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, can do that. Do you want me to just edit directly on this, or should I just, like, spend it on?
253 00:28:29.900 ⇒ 00:28:40.549 Phoebe Miller: Feel free to edit directly, feel free to edit. And I’m happy, if you want to link up sometime on Monday to chat through, we can do that, or if you want me to just react to, like, a Loom, I’m cool with whatever.
254 00:28:40.550 ⇒ 00:28:47.099 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, no, I’ll get it done and sent to you by tomorrow, so you have some time to review, and if you feel like we need a chat on Monday, we can, yeah.
255 00:28:47.100 ⇒ 00:29:04.969 Phoebe Miller: Okay, cool, thanks. I really appreciate it. And yeah, send me whatever you need me to sign to get the, 5K retainer set up. Okay. We’ll go from there. But yeah, I think, like, I want to feel really, really good about this funnel that we’re gonna all obsess over, that I’m gonna look at, right?
256 00:29:04.970 ⇒ 00:29:05.350 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
257 00:29:05.350 ⇒ 00:29:14.419 Phoebe Miller: All the experiments should move that funnel, and then we’ll have to double-click on the experiments specifically, like, the elements of the experiment, to see.
258 00:29:14.420 ⇒ 00:29:15.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
259 00:29:15.560 ⇒ 00:29:18.749 Phoebe Miller: Once the experiment’s rolling, like, what we can change or update.
260 00:29:19.320 ⇒ 00:29:23.419 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, no, I mean, I’ll make sure that all the scaffolding is set up right. I’m not gonna, like.
261 00:29:23.700 ⇒ 00:29:39.849 Robert Tseng: make you jump through all these hoops and curls, and there you have to report me down on this Monday, so I’ll make the changes, and we’ll… we’ll kind of… Perfect. Yeah. I’ll send you over the docs, too. It’ll just probably be the similar contract you sign, it’ll just be updated without, like, a… the dates will be updated, or whatever, yeah.
262 00:29:39.850 ⇒ 00:29:43.500 Phoebe Miller: I appreciate it, thanks. I know I’m coming in hot after being out for a couple weeks.
263 00:29:44.120 ⇒ 00:29:45.779 Phoebe Miller: I feel like we’re ready to go now, so….
264 00:29:45.780 ⇒ 00:29:48.180 Robert Tseng: Nice. Alright, excited. Alright, thanks, Avian.
265 00:29:48.180 ⇒ 00:29:48.840 Phoebe Miller: Right.
266 00:29:48.840 ⇒ 00:29:49.340 Robert Tseng: Right.