Meeting Title: Project Updates and Role Clarification Sync Date: 2025-07-31 Meeting participants: Hannah Wang, Uttam Kumaran


WEBVTT

1 00:06:24.060 00:06:25.430 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!

2 00:06:26.420 00:06:27.740 Hannah Wang: Hello!

3 00:06:29.100 00:06:30.160 Uttam Kumaran: How’s it going.

4 00:06:31.160 00:06:38.760 Hannah Wang: Oh, it’s my brain feels I don’t know, like all over the place.

5 00:06:39.260 00:06:41.789 Uttam Kumaran: How do you feel compared to last week this time.

6 00:06:47.550 00:06:54.930 Hannah Wang: I forgot what I felt last week, probably overwhelmed. Still kind of there. But

7 00:06:55.320 00:06:57.240 Hannah Wang: I’m just like I just need a

8 00:06:57.480 00:07:01.579 Hannah Wang: work, so I don’t know. Ignoring that feeling, I guess.

9 00:07:01.580 00:07:06.560 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, did it feel like we’re at least like, you know, there’s

10 00:07:06.690 00:07:13.080 Uttam Kumaran: tickets for stuff. I know we wanted to make progress on the website feel like it was a lot less of like an asset

11 00:07:13.480 00:07:15.469 Uttam Kumaran: week where we didn’t have like a lot of

12 00:07:16.370 00:07:20.240 Uttam Kumaran: too much like timely stuff. And I saw. I haven’t seen all the

13 00:07:20.560 00:07:23.049 Uttam Kumaran: stuff, but I saw activity in Sigma.

14 00:07:23.850 00:07:28.022 Hannah Wang: Yeah, most of the famous stuff is just the website,

15 00:07:28.620 00:07:38.210 Hannah Wang: like, we finished up the homepage redesign. And then, we’re working on the case studies right now. So that’s probably what the main thing is.

16 00:07:38.360 00:07:43.339 Hannah Wang: along with some like small linkedin infographic stuff for

17 00:07:43.620 00:07:46.620 Hannah Wang: posts. Since we want images for each post.

18 00:07:47.682 00:07:57.749 Hannah Wang: So yeah, I felt less asset heavy. But I mean feels more like ambiguous cause. I’m like doing stuff. I don’t really know how to do so.

19 00:07:57.750 00:07:58.779 Uttam Kumaran: The sales, stuff.

20 00:07:58.780 00:08:05.810 Hannah Wang: Yeah, like partnership stuff and sales stuff. And the thing that Robert proposed.

21 00:08:06.280 00:08:06.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

22 00:08:06.820 00:08:10.422 Hannah Wang: Sales nav stuff she’s like. I don’t. I don’t know what I’m doing, but.

23 00:08:11.380 00:08:16.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think I think Ryan and Sid are gonna play a bigger part, anyway. So.

24 00:08:16.350 00:08:16.850 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

25 00:08:16.850 00:08:19.380 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like they’re at least

26 00:08:19.830 00:08:24.270 Uttam Kumaran: starting to do more. I know Ryan message me. He’s gonna be working on more stuff there. So

27 00:08:24.560 00:08:30.190 Uttam Kumaran: feel like it’s getting a little bit better like both of them are starting to take on more.

28 00:08:31.560 00:08:38.019 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I just need Ryan’s help like populating the lead list so that I can do like deep research on it. But.

29 00:08:38.020 00:08:38.549 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

30 00:08:38.559 00:08:40.809 Hannah Wang: I know, like well, I asked him

31 00:08:41.099 00:08:45.719 Hannah Wang: to pull me to look alike. To start off. But

32 00:08:46.309 00:09:06.079 Hannah Wang: yeah, I think he has like a lot of campaigns in the backlog that he needs to run. So I will just start deep diving. I know. I asked him to pull a list for Brian for stuff that he can go after. I’m thinking I can just start there, too, because that’s a list of companies

33 00:09:06.729 00:09:09.088 Hannah Wang: that we can maybe target

34 00:09:10.259 00:09:27.159 Hannah Wang: But yeah, I don’t know. I just need that list, so I can kind of go after companies and do a deeper dive. But I know mine is more strategic. So I wanted to call Robert, but he he was busy today. So maybe tomorrow or next week.

35 00:09:27.360 00:09:30.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think you’ll find that that work is actually a little bit

36 00:09:30.380 00:09:36.250 Uttam Kumaran: easier, because mainly, we’re like trying to find companies. That match companies we work for.

37 00:09:36.460 00:09:42.309 Uttam Kumaran: Or you know, companies that fit our profile. It’s not so much like

38 00:09:43.040 00:09:54.319 Uttam Kumaran: as broad as the other stuff is, gonna be. But look, it’s gonna take a couple of weeks so like for us, the best time for us to have started. This was months ago, and so we’re just starting it now. So it’ll take.

39 00:09:54.440 00:09:59.969 Uttam Kumaran: That’s why I actually I I’m pushing to have like the Monday check ins, and

40 00:10:00.480 00:10:02.040 Uttam Kumaran: I’m still pushing to have

41 00:10:02.210 00:10:08.829 Uttam Kumaran: like beckon for stuff, because even if nothing happens, that’s a that’s worth talking through and understanding.

42 00:10:09.000 00:10:13.884 Hannah Wang: So the meetings will be painful for some time, like I know not worried about that.

43 00:10:14.560 00:10:21.080 Uttam Kumaran: Like that will show us like what we can handle and what the problems are. But what I, what I want to avoid is like.

44 00:10:21.230 00:10:30.410 Uttam Kumaran: okay, we meet every day, and then Robert and I kind of handhold through it, because then the rest of the team will never figure out like the specifics

45 00:10:30.860 00:10:45.689 Uttam Kumaran: and like, that’s just the trade off we’re gonna make. Which yes, could we have got it out if we spent 30 40 min every day. But it’s like it’s it’s up to this team to sort of get some of that understanding and like the end to end process

46 00:10:45.920 00:10:49.299 Uttam Kumaran: for for everyone individually to get that, it’ll take time.

47 00:10:49.430 00:10:51.379 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s nothing we can do about that.

48 00:10:51.755 00:10:57.640 Uttam Kumaran: The only thing we can do is like we just meet regularly. We talk through what the challenges are, we impart our feedback.

49 00:10:57.740 00:11:04.639 Uttam Kumaran: We can isolate working session to do where there’s a clear goal. We can do that. But these are things that that

50 00:11:05.090 00:11:11.880 Uttam Kumaran: what we I actually want other people to get involved in it to do because it’s not gonna scale with just me and him.

51 00:11:11.880 00:11:16.509 Hannah Wang: Yeah, yeah, growing pains of learning what you guys do.

52 00:11:17.570 00:11:19.130 Hannah Wang: Basically. So

53 00:11:19.940 00:11:26.910 Hannah Wang: yeah, it’s like, okay, just learning to. Even if with all the ambiguity, and not knowing how to do stuff, at least trying, and then.

54 00:11:26.910 00:11:27.780 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

55 00:11:27.780 00:11:30.389 Hannah Wang: People. Oh, this is what I tried! What.

56 00:11:30.390 00:11:30.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

57 00:11:30.810 00:11:35.080 Hannah Wang: Help me fix it, instead of just asking for everything on the on the.

58 00:11:35.080 00:11:41.719 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s the feedback I we talked in the managers meeting yesterday is like, I would rather people try and fail than.

59 00:11:41.720 00:11:42.280 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

60 00:11:42.280 00:11:50.919 Uttam Kumaran: Throw their hands up or say like, Oh, like, I don’t really know, or I’ve never done this like no one that we haven’t. I didn’t do this either, until recently. So like

61 00:11:51.080 00:11:56.569 Uttam Kumaran: it’s, it’s also just like we have the support system. Also, there is.

62 00:11:56.690 00:12:00.350 Uttam Kumaran: There’s several people in the company that have done parts of everything so.

63 00:12:00.350 00:12:00.910 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

64 00:12:00.910 00:12:01.900 Uttam Kumaran: You can

65 00:12:02.510 00:12:11.419 Uttam Kumaran: Google, and then slack your way out of a lot of things I feel like. And then worst case twice a week, 3 times a week we’ll have check in so.

66 00:12:11.550 00:12:12.280 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

67 00:12:14.870 00:12:18.380 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Yeah, I mean, I I ended up catching up with

68 00:12:19.120 00:12:32.799 Uttam Kumaran: Robert about kind of your guys conversations when he was in. La! I guess I was. Gonna I wanted to ask you like what your feelings were overall after speaking with him, and then I have some notes.

69 00:12:33.020 00:12:34.869 Uttam Kumaran: After talking to him.

70 00:12:36.740 00:12:39.299 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, just like wanted to catch up.

71 00:12:39.640 00:12:50.870 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I felt good. I don’t know. I always kinda like go back and forth

72 00:12:51.565 00:12:57.069 Hannah Wang: kind of what I shared with you before couple of weeks ago, where I just feel like.

73 00:12:57.600 00:12:59.450 Uttam Kumaran: To me like.

74 00:13:00.480 00:13:11.840 Hannah Wang: It’s easy. It’s tempting to think that I’m just like not a good fit for like a startup kind of culture like us. And I think that kind of like, negatively.

75 00:13:11.990 00:13:16.079 Hannah Wang: it’s just like unmotivating. Obviously, it’s like, Oh, I’m like, not built.

76 00:13:16.230 00:13:21.029 Uttam Kumaran: It just feels like I’m not built for such a fast self defeating talk. Yeah.

77 00:13:21.030 00:13:23.560 Hannah Wang: Yeah, exactly. So. I mean, I have a lot of that.

78 00:13:23.560 00:13:24.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

79 00:13:24.290 00:13:33.379 Hannah Wang: Who I that’s just how I’ve been all this time growing up. So yeah, my tendency is to be like, Oh, my gosh! Like, maybe I can’t like

80 00:13:35.682 00:13:51.777 Hannah Wang: It’s not very, sis. It doesn’t feel I mean I can do it now, but maybe in the future just like might not be sustainable. But maybe at that point, like, maybe you’ll sell the company or we’ll like scale, and it’ll feel a little bit more less like I’m wearing a ton of hats.

81 00:13:52.990 00:14:01.630 Hannah Wang: So yeah, I felt that a lot this week it’s like, Oh, my gosh, I’m like trying to do all this like partnership like event stuff. Which

82 00:14:01.790 00:14:30.399 Hannah Wang: I do like the event stuff of everything like talking with Mary from glimpse like I feel like that will be kind of fun, just like figuring out the events and all the logistics of everything, and I know that’s what Robert Robert kind of proposed to me on top of doing like some of the design, like handling design and leading in that way. So that sounds good, like I I felt good about that, but it shows every week I’m like, Oh, is this like sustainable for me? Long term.

83 00:14:30.400 00:14:30.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

84 00:14:30.950 00:14:36.029 Hannah Wang: And I don’t. I don’t know even for you, too. I’m like oh, I don’t know if it’s sustainable for you.

85 00:14:36.030 00:14:37.300 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, it’s not sustainable for me.

86 00:14:37.300 00:14:37.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

87 00:14:37.620 00:14:43.330 Uttam Kumaran: we’re. I’m not gonna be doing this long term like meaning like, I’m not gonna have a schedule like this long term, so.

88 00:14:43.330 00:14:46.619 Hannah Wang: Yeah, or that’s so bad for your health. So.

89 00:14:46.620 00:14:49.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I know I’m I’m aware. It’s also like.

90 00:14:50.060 00:14:54.170 Uttam Kumaran: you know, even to think of, like I’m thinking about kind of the stuff you have on your plate this week.

91 00:14:54.290 00:14:57.429 Uttam Kumaran: It is like the website stuff, the campaign stuff.

92 00:14:57.760 00:15:01.320 Uttam Kumaran: There’s like general sort of marketing.

93 00:15:01.927 00:15:04.780 Uttam Kumaran: Stuff. There’s everything we’re doing in slack.

94 00:15:05.060 00:15:09.799 Uttam Kumaran: the follow ups and the partnerships right? But this is, I guess the point is that

95 00:15:10.050 00:15:16.050 Uttam Kumaran: for everybody in the company it’s gonna keep layering on until we find the point at which

96 00:15:16.360 00:15:20.209 Uttam Kumaran: you’re like. I can’t do it right. But that’s the thing. I think everybody

97 00:15:20.810 00:15:26.940 Uttam Kumaran: needs to be honest and find that point where they can say

98 00:15:27.150 00:15:32.319 Uttam Kumaran: like, I’m not going anywhere on it. We have 10 things. I’m moving nowhere on all 10.

99 00:15:32.320 00:15:32.660 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

100 00:15:32.660 00:15:37.850 Uttam Kumaran: Right. But like I told until I hear that, or until you you are like.

101 00:15:38.480 00:15:47.079 Uttam Kumaran: okay, I I feel comfortable doing that. It’s gonna keep coming. This is just the. There’s also just the world. It is just the world of a fast moving business in that.

102 00:15:47.080 00:15:47.510 Hannah Wang: Right.

103 00:15:47.510 00:15:52.499 Uttam Kumaran: You are involved with a lot of core things, things, problems will find you.

104 00:15:53.107 00:16:00.970 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s why we have the managers meetings. That’s why we have a pretty transparent culture. Because, as I want to hear.

105 00:16:01.160 00:16:15.950 Uttam Kumaran: okay, I don’t think I can confidently do this. My answer is not always gonna be okay. Let’s like, exit out where, if we’ll find a way. But also I want to hear what the potential solution is, whether it’s like cool. I can’t do all these things. So how about we lay off any partnerships work

106 00:16:16.160 00:16:23.380 Uttam Kumaran: for another month while we figure out the website like, I want to hear the the solution. In addition to the problem.

107 00:16:23.380 00:16:23.700 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

108 00:16:23.700 00:16:28.779 Uttam Kumaran: But that has to come from everybody who is not just a

109 00:16:29.170 00:16:34.869 Uttam Kumaran: like employee where you’re not just like listening to what happens and taking it on right. You’re true, like

110 00:16:35.120 00:16:58.860 Uttam Kumaran: bigger part of the business. And that’s what you know. I kind of told Robert. I mean to start like I know he talked about like maternity and stuff. But for me, I I basically I told him to kind of split the 2. For me. It was 2 conversations. There’s 1 like I. I’m down to support you through that. However, we can like. I think you’ve been extremely important to the business, and

111 00:16:58.960 00:17:07.970 Uttam Kumaran: however, we can make that happen, and we have a couple of options that we’ve talked about. But for you to get paid throughout that process and like, be here

112 00:17:08.119 00:17:16.089 Uttam Kumaran: like I want to make happen. So that is, I would I for me. They may seem like kind of conjoined conversations, but

113 00:17:16.250 00:17:31.739 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t like I want you to be part of the company in some whatever capacity so like, I told him. That’s a pretty clear answer for me is that I will find a way to afford it, or figure out the logistics of making that happen. So

114 00:17:32.290 00:17:38.809 Uttam Kumaran: that’s like that. You have assurance for me on that. I think the second piece, you know, I told him, is that

115 00:17:39.250 00:17:43.960 Uttam Kumaran: on like salary for me, the biggest thing is understanding.

116 00:17:44.460 00:17:48.250 Uttam Kumaran: like where you want to fit in the company. I mean, I told them that

117 00:17:48.580 00:17:50.649 Uttam Kumaran: I believe you’re you’re clearly

118 00:17:50.770 00:18:09.680 Uttam Kumaran: have the ability to do the scope of work that we need someone in this role to do, I think what you’re finding is that there are edge things in addition to design and marketing that we’re having do. But, as you can tell. With pro, with project management we’re about to bring. We’re next week, we should close on another 2. We should close on 2 more project managers.

119 00:18:09.680 00:18:25.750 Uttam Kumaran: So Amber’s world is, was the hardest like is now the next hardest world. And so we’re solving that problem. And then the next thing will come up right? So we’re we can only systematically solve things as they go. But what I’m trying to show is that we have a track record of identifying the people that are getting slammed.

120 00:18:25.760 00:18:27.579 Uttam Kumaran: isolating how we

121 00:18:27.780 00:18:33.980 Uttam Kumaran: move them into something more sustainable, and then give the path towards doing that right. But but Amber has been sort of in

122 00:18:34.348 00:18:45.200 Uttam Kumaran: Crunch mode for like 2 months now. But I told her I said, we’re we’re interviewing almost one new candidate per day. We’ll find someone, and we’re about to like. Next week we’ll close on 2 people for sure, and then they’ll

123 00:18:45.490 00:18:50.069 Uttam Kumaran: that that that pro that area of like project management gets solved for a bit of time.

124 00:18:50.340 00:18:53.921 Uttam Kumaran: but for me, the biggest thing I told I told

125 00:18:55.803 00:19:07.959 Uttam Kumaran: Robert was that I believe that you can do this, and you’ve shown that you can do this. But for me, I I need everybody who’s at like on the management team to also have the belief in themselves like.

126 00:19:08.450 00:19:22.769 Uttam Kumaran: I can only for so long convince you that you’re actually really good, because it will take that confidence to go into the next new area, which is what we’re gonna be doing as a crew right, or deal with the next

127 00:19:23.020 00:19:42.070 Uttam Kumaran: person that has to leave the company or the next big issue together. But I like what I can’t. What I can’t help you with is that self belief? Right? I mean I I certainly can. But I don’t think the Comp. I don’t think we will end up with the time to do so like, and that’s something that

128 00:19:42.260 00:19:48.319 Uttam Kumaran: I think you have to bring to the table yourself is like that confidence and that belief that you are

129 00:19:48.720 00:20:07.550 Uttam Kumaran: the one to do it. Right. And I know I’ve said that to you a bunch of times. But for me, that’s what is probably the only thing missing like. I don’t think you’ve shown an aptitude to move into several other fields in just several. There’s a few months time right into things you had never had an experience of. So like

130 00:20:07.760 00:20:10.809 Uttam Kumaran: you’ve proved you’ve proved to me, and I think you should have.

131 00:20:10.910 00:20:13.700 Uttam Kumaran: My belief is that you should approve to yourself that

132 00:20:13.890 00:20:24.929 Uttam Kumaran: you could go do anything right like. I don’t think there’s much in the company that you couldn’t figure out if you really tried, and you’ve done it, you will. I just think maybe it is the fact that you haven’t seen how

133 00:20:25.130 00:20:35.250 Uttam Kumaran: slow and how tough it is to change in other organizations that you’re sort of seeing how it is in ours, and and taking that as like.

134 00:20:35.620 00:20:41.949 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I, this is like very tough. I I actually think that the fact that you changed so quickly is a testament to

135 00:20:42.110 00:20:47.000 Uttam Kumaran: your ability, right? But that’s also something you have to believe in yourself like.

136 00:20:47.000 00:20:47.800 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

137 00:20:47.800 00:21:00.880 Uttam Kumaran: Right, and and everybody that is on that crew needs to have confidence, to be able to push back against me, push back against Robert, like push like, propose new things, propose new ideas and be confident in the way you feel.

138 00:21:01.070 00:21:05.000 Uttam Kumaran: But that is, that’s that is only gonna get become more important, because.

139 00:21:05.380 00:21:20.679 Uttam Kumaran: like, we’re gonna try to go for bigger things. But that’s that’s kind of my 2 cents on. That is that like, I feel like you totally have the capability. I think you are well rounded and and like. I think you can own this part of

140 00:21:20.850 00:21:26.190 Uttam Kumaran: whether it’s marketing brand design. I mean ideally, where we kind of want to see you is like head of Brand.

141 00:21:26.410 00:21:30.579 Uttam Kumaran: where you you have an understanding of all the assets we have, how we talk about the business

142 00:21:30.780 00:21:35.840 Uttam Kumaran: sort of have an eye, and we can start to fill out other positions. But that’s where

143 00:21:36.090 00:21:38.789 Uttam Kumaran: you know. I kind of see you fitting, but that’s probably my

144 00:21:39.620 00:21:42.769 Uttam Kumaran: my feedback on on this part of that conversation.

145 00:21:43.040 00:21:43.840 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

146 00:21:44.150 00:21:44.580 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.

147 00:21:44.580 00:21:51.339 Hannah Wang: I guess what is head of brand mean or like entail Guy? I guess I could look it up, but.

148 00:21:51.340 00:21:58.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I think you’re gonna find that something different in every company. I mean, I think you know, a typical companies like ours. You have someone that’s like

149 00:21:59.200 00:22:08.870 Uttam Kumaran: you have marketing sales, brand, you typically don’t have like a head of design at an organization like ours.

150 00:22:08.870 00:22:09.270 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

151 00:22:09.674 00:22:14.120 Uttam Kumaran: Typically, you only have a head of marketing, which is like

152 00:22:14.810 00:22:19.239 Uttam Kumaran: that person is in charge of everything, including brand design, which is like

153 00:22:19.420 00:22:23.940 Uttam Kumaran: the how the company looks feels, but also

154 00:22:24.180 00:22:32.319 Uttam Kumaran: like how we basically all running all the marketing campaigns, which is like coming up with those Kpis coming up with the marketing strategies

155 00:22:32.460 00:22:45.099 Uttam Kumaran: creating the creatives. And I know that that’s probably some area that you’re not as interested in, just because that is a lot more like if we have to start running advertisements, for example, it’s like setting advertisement budgets.

156 00:22:45.100 00:22:45.540 Hannah Wang: Hmm.

157 00:22:45.540 00:22:59.079 Uttam Kumaran: Like that’s just like a different world. But like the world of like, okay, what like? We need, what assets do the best consultancies have. How are we making those available like what is? And but Brand is also beyond, just

158 00:22:59.210 00:23:07.340 Uttam Kumaran: like the marketing assets. It’s like, how should anyone describe the company. How should someone that goes to any of our different touch points see the company?

159 00:23:07.680 00:23:09.890 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That is sort of the

160 00:23:10.370 00:23:17.530 Uttam Kumaran: sort of the bowling alley that gets put on the bowling pins, or like the whatever the rails they could put on sales they get put on marketing, which is like.

161 00:23:17.800 00:23:19.729 Uttam Kumaran: how do you speak about the business.

162 00:23:22.150 00:23:25.280 Uttam Kumaran: So consistent tone, consistent voice.

163 00:23:25.480 00:23:32.359 Uttam Kumaran: But again, I would encourage you to to Google about that. But that’s where I kind of see. We see you fitting over time.

164 00:23:34.810 00:23:35.690 Uttam Kumaran: You know.

165 00:23:36.220 00:23:36.970 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

166 00:23:37.190 00:23:53.779 Uttam Kumaran: But again the alternatives, as you described before, which is just sitting in design. But for me, I told Robert like it would be a shame to just have you as a designer, because you can clearly do so many other things. But if that’s what keeps you involved in the company long term. Then that’s what

167 00:23:54.140 00:24:01.550 Uttam Kumaran: that’s what we will do right. But certainly the responsibility is open to do the next couple of things, and I would

168 00:24:02.280 00:24:04.940 Uttam Kumaran: definitely prefer it to be you versus

169 00:24:05.050 00:24:08.249 Uttam Kumaran: someone new, because then that person has to learn everything. But

170 00:24:08.380 00:24:12.950 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the only thing I can say. I I can’t force you to do that, you know. So.

171 00:24:15.090 00:24:16.130 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

172 00:24:21.420 00:24:28.200 Hannah Wang: yeah, that that makes sense like the trajectory. It just makes sense. Cause I’ve I’ve been touching all the assets and

173 00:24:28.490 00:24:31.447 Hannah Wang: involved in sales and all that stuff.

174 00:24:32.010 00:24:42.509 Hannah Wang: I did mention. I don’t know. I feel like I don’t know if there’s like a partnership head of partnership need here. I mean, clearly, we do have partnerships and stuff

175 00:24:42.730 00:24:47.760 Hannah Wang: like like I mentioned with Mary, like events.

176 00:24:47.760 00:24:48.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

177 00:24:48.700 00:24:52.309 Hannah Wang: I would be interested in that. I’ve never done it, obviously. But

178 00:24:53.033 00:25:02.756 Hannah Wang: just like being more on that side, and like coordinating all those things I know that strays more away from design.

179 00:25:03.710 00:25:07.459 Hannah Wang: it’s like it’s like a kind of a new vertical. I guess not. Really.

180 00:25:07.460 00:25:11.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I think, partner, like partnerships, longer term will sit under sales.

181 00:25:11.510 00:25:12.170 Hannah Wang: Right.

182 00:25:12.170 00:25:14.069 Uttam Kumaran: Which means it’ll be purely like

183 00:25:14.380 00:25:16.949 Uttam Kumaran: how much money is coming in I don’t know.

184 00:25:17.450 00:25:22.479 Uttam Kumaran: Like meaning. It will be tense like it’ll get a lot more

185 00:25:22.820 00:25:28.369 Uttam Kumaran: hence than it is right now on the partnership side. I do think that probably events

186 00:25:28.790 00:25:35.960 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll sit either under. We’ll probably sit under brand or sit under marketing or something. But see, the marketing crew will be

187 00:25:36.130 00:25:38.050 Uttam Kumaran: basically in charge of

188 00:25:38.210 00:25:46.850 Uttam Kumaran: like driving traffic to the site, driving traffic to events, driving traffic to our other channels and causing people to get into the sales. Funnel.

189 00:25:48.820 00:25:51.170 Uttam Kumaran: Right. But Brand touches the whole thing.

190 00:25:51.540 00:25:51.970 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

191 00:25:51.970 00:25:53.539 Uttam Kumaran: There’s also brand around

192 00:25:53.650 00:26:00.900 Uttam Kumaran: like the way our clients get our service right like, what do they see? How do they feel? And then also like

193 00:26:01.400 00:26:18.219 Uttam Kumaran: at the end. Like, what do they get as an output? Right? So Brand can can be a more evolving thing. But it is. It is in that world like less specific, you know, and everyone is gonna have metrics and stuff like that. So it’s not totally like an esoteric thing.

194 00:26:18.220 00:26:18.730 Hannah Wang: Right.

195 00:26:18.730 00:26:21.440 Uttam Kumaran: But I also don’t think we’re gonna have ahead of partnerships for a while.

196 00:26:21.970 00:26:27.830 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think we’re gonna have ahead of events for a while, just because we just don’t do enough to have like a head of.

197 00:26:27.830 00:26:28.320 Hannah Wang: Yes.

198 00:26:28.320 00:26:31.219 Uttam Kumaran: You know. So it will fall under

199 00:26:31.330 00:26:34.000 Uttam Kumaran: somebody until it falls under somebody else.

200 00:26:34.000 00:26:34.340 Hannah Wang: Okay.

201 00:26:34.340 00:26:38.830 Uttam Kumaran: And then, if it doesn’t fall into anyone else, it’ll fall under me or Robert. Let’s just say, you know.

202 00:26:38.830 00:26:41.880 Hannah Wang: Okay, yeah, maybe our.

203 00:26:41.880 00:26:51.609 Uttam Kumaran: But I will say again, like the head of Role or the directory, you you’re gonna have to have that belief like I don’t think it’s going to get any

204 00:26:52.545 00:26:53.210 Uttam Kumaran: like.

205 00:26:53.410 00:26:58.520 Uttam Kumaran: In fact, the stuff is going to probably get more esoteric and more unknown.

206 00:26:58.520 00:26:58.920 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

207 00:26:58.920 00:27:03.300 Uttam Kumaran: But your confidence should go up over time right like.

208 00:27:03.300 00:27:04.259 Hannah Wang: It’s the ideal.

209 00:27:04.260 00:27:07.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, right? And so. But that’s but that’s also something that

210 00:27:07.860 00:27:12.260 Uttam Kumaran: we can keep like. What you have for me is support. And then the fact that we can

211 00:27:12.450 00:27:17.119 Uttam Kumaran: continue to meet and help you build that like you’re not like left on your own.

212 00:27:17.310 00:27:22.379 Uttam Kumaran: But I wanna know that that’s like what you want to do and that like.

213 00:27:23.200 00:27:32.739 Uttam Kumaran: if we spend time working through that and working through okay, like, how do you come to these things prepared, confident and like measure results get feedback.

214 00:27:33.030 00:27:41.359 Hannah Wang: If if we do that, I want to know that you’re locked in and because the really the management crew of folks is really gonna be like.

215 00:27:41.520 00:27:49.260 Uttam Kumaran: The group of people that are gonna make decisions as a as a group, and their decisions are gonna get tougher and tougher. And so for me when I think about

216 00:27:49.510 00:27:58.069 Uttam Kumaran: like you. Awaii, Amber and Robert like. I don’t want people with my same opinions, and I don’t want people that agree with me all the time.

217 00:27:58.490 00:28:08.330 Uttam Kumaran: Cause then I would. Why would I? Why would we even need a team of people to do that right? It’s like I need the disagreement. I need the perspective, and I need people to be confident that

218 00:28:08.450 00:28:13.380 Uttam Kumaran: in what they say, but like it’s sort of like opinions, strong opinions loosely held.

219 00:28:13.630 00:28:14.470 Hannah Wang: You know.

220 00:28:14.470 00:28:20.649 Uttam Kumaran: But I need the strong opinions like we need people that are like from my perspective, I think we should go this way. Here’s what I think

221 00:28:20.780 00:28:24.919 Uttam Kumaran: otherwise. Like, we don’t get the benefit of having us all in a group.

222 00:28:25.230 00:28:28.740 Uttam Kumaran: It becomes myopic like it becomes super. One track minded.

223 00:28:28.740 00:28:29.170 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

224 00:28:30.110 00:28:31.050 Hannah Wang: You know.

225 00:28:31.880 00:28:35.380 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s gonna be the difference between all the employees in the company. And like

226 00:28:35.580 00:28:37.484 Uttam Kumaran: this group of people,

227 00:28:38.310 00:28:38.950 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

228 00:28:38.950 00:28:39.580 Uttam Kumaran: Right.

229 00:28:40.860 00:28:44.059 Hannah Wang: Oh, I don’t. Oh, my, gosh, yeah!

230 00:28:45.080 00:28:48.970 Uttam Kumaran: I’m I’m not saying this is like kind of like a

231 00:28:49.640 00:28:54.120 Uttam Kumaran: one and done thing, but also it kind of

232 00:28:54.360 00:29:06.549 Uttam Kumaran: it. Kind of has to be like. I think you either have a choice to sort of help mold this at the top. But it I I’m not gonna lie. It will come with added pressure. It obviously is coming with

233 00:29:06.730 00:29:21.389 Uttam Kumaran: not only being the go to for like random things, but it’s also coming with joining these management meetings. And I’m gonna and as you see, I’m gonna start to add more structure to these because we’re gonna get the maximum value out of them. And that’s stress like that is more work

234 00:29:21.580 00:29:24.469 Uttam Kumaran: than other people in the company. But as a benefit

235 00:29:24.800 00:29:33.929 Uttam Kumaran: like this crew is gonna I, for sure, is gonna make more money, and it’s gonna have more power over like where the company goes.

236 00:29:34.390 00:29:38.480 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s the trade off like that. That’s like as honest as I could be.

237 00:29:38.480 00:29:39.620 Hannah Wang: Yeah, yeah,

238 00:29:50.800 00:29:57.445 Hannah Wang: I mean, I came to this same fork in the road we’ll create this job,

239 00:30:00.190 00:30:08.999 Uttam Kumaran: But I also want you to put what? Because the 1st thing is already decided about going on leave and stuff. So don’t worry about that like. Don’t don’t think about that. That is like done.

240 00:30:09.300 00:30:11.180 Uttam Kumaran: but like

241 00:30:11.300 00:30:16.839 Uttam Kumaran: I believe in you and and I would it would suck to have you as just a designer.

242 00:30:17.010 00:30:24.299 Uttam Kumaran: But if that’s what keeps you around and keeps you motivated, and then so be it, because the alternative is

243 00:30:24.470 00:30:26.020 Uttam Kumaran: is worse, you know.

244 00:30:26.350 00:30:26.930 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

245 00:30:26.930 00:30:30.630 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s but that’s all I can do. Like I I don’t have the

246 00:30:31.510 00:30:33.889 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. That’s that’s what I can say.

247 00:30:34.980 00:30:37.390 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I mean.

248 00:30:39.040 00:30:45.709 Hannah Wang: I think I just feel a financial like, a little bit more financial burden, because we’re in escrow right now. And.

249 00:30:45.710 00:30:46.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

250 00:30:46.470 00:30:56.879 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I mean, obviously, that’s like a huge all the money that’s more money than I’ve ever seen ever. So I think that’s why, I feel a little like pushed.

251 00:30:57.180 00:30:57.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

252 00:30:57.972 00:31:02.287 Hannah Wang: To. Yeah. Make more, I guess. So it’s like, either

253 00:31:03.000 00:31:07.799 Hannah Wang: go look somewhere else or like, stay here and

254 00:31:08.262 00:31:13.000 Hannah Wang: yeah, get a pay raise. But I know, like, obviously.

255 00:31:13.230 00:31:22.880 Hannah Wang: you’re not gonna pay people like the higher up you go in the ladder the more you get paid. That’s just the way it is in organization. So it’s like, Oh, I’m trying to.

256 00:31:23.140 00:31:32.966 Hannah Wang: I’m like fighting 2 sides. It’s like, Oh, my natural inclination is obviously to play it safe. But I do feel like that financial pressure

257 00:31:36.690 00:31:39.790 Hannah Wang: cause. What I wanna say is like, I wanna design that’s like my honest answer.

258 00:31:39.790 00:31:40.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

259 00:31:40.180 00:31:48.509 Hannah Wang: But in this current state I don’t know if I can keep my current pay, and

260 00:31:48.690 00:31:52.930 Hannah Wang: we’d be a little. We’d just be more like paycheck to paycheck, which is fine, but.

261 00:31:52.930 00:32:01.890 Uttam Kumaran: But if that’s so, I mean, if that’s the answer, then what we’ll then what I’ll do is like, I know, kind of like the the number Robert gave me. Then I can take back

262 00:32:02.540 00:32:11.700 Uttam Kumaran: and work with him and think of something that’s that’s fair. But for me like, in order to make that calculation. I kind of have to just know where you want to sit overall, you know.

263 00:32:11.700 00:32:12.550 Hannah Wang: Exactly.

264 00:32:13.200 00:32:21.810 Hannah Wang: I know. I know. He brought up like laying not laying. Oh, yeah, laying off. And I was like, I don’t. I? Yeah, I.

265 00:32:21.810 00:32:24.330 Uttam Kumaran: I also, yeah, like 1 1

266 00:32:25.180 00:32:27.839 Uttam Kumaran: one. My, my one. My 1 point is like.

267 00:32:28.790 00:32:33.069 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think that was probably a mistake to say, that’s that’s not on the table.

268 00:32:33.070 00:32:33.430 Hannah Wang: Okay.

269 00:32:33.430 00:32:34.530 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s also like.

270 00:32:35.050 00:32:51.908 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s like putting too much pressure on you. Because now you’re like, if other kind of shitty companies will do that. They’d be cool. If you don’t go, then that person has to like. I’m not doing that and like don’t consider that like, and don’t consider that at all. That’s like, not that’s like, not what we’re considering

271 00:32:52.760 00:32:57.670 Uttam Kumaran: like. I do think that there’s enough work for for both of you to do yeah.

272 00:32:58.230 00:33:03.200 Uttam Kumaran: for me, like, I just need to be able to plan. Okay, like.

273 00:33:03.340 00:33:10.671 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna have to go out and get it of someone to come, run, Brand, to come, run, partner, to come, do these things, and we’ll start to plan for that.

274 00:33:11.130 00:33:11.710 Hannah Wang: Okay.

275 00:33:11.710 00:33:17.090 Uttam Kumaran: You know, that’s the that’s the main thing. But again, it’s like on a very personal level. I don’t.

276 00:33:17.390 00:33:23.669 Uttam Kumaran: This isn’t no meaning. This has no like bearing on your character, or anything like that, so like.

277 00:33:23.920 00:33:29.109 Uttam Kumaran: But I always, as you know, I want to give the opportunity to people we have before I go to new people.

278 00:33:29.110 00:33:29.460 Hannah Wang: Yes.

279 00:33:30.370 00:33:35.829 Uttam Kumaran: right. But there, there is a role to to be had there, and I want to offer it to you first.st

280 00:33:35.830 00:33:36.360 Hannah Wang: Hmm.

281 00:33:36.636 00:33:41.610 Uttam Kumaran: But you’re totally I’m like, what I’m not gonna say is that it’s gonna be easier that it’s

282 00:33:41.750 00:33:42.570 Uttam Kumaran: like.

283 00:33:43.307 00:33:54.089 Uttam Kumaran: it’s gonna be less stressful than it is now, you know. But like that’s why. But that’s but also like I do think that the upside is gonna be there

284 00:33:55.390 00:33:59.579 Uttam Kumaran: But again, I would rather find a way to keep you and keep you here sustainably.

285 00:33:59.740 00:34:00.380 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm!

286 00:34:00.380 00:34:02.670 Uttam Kumaran: If that’s like, if that’s what it takes, you know.

287 00:34:02.670 00:34:12.073 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I I mean, if I’m gonna project into the future, I honestly don’t think I can work full time if I have a kid.

288 00:34:13.650 00:34:17.799 Hannah Wang: If that like changes any of your decisions or anything but

289 00:34:19.350 00:34:45.430 Hannah Wang: I think I might well, the hope I mean, obviously, I don’t have a kid. So things could change. But I would ideally want to homeschool for a little bit for those 1st couple of years, and if I do that like I can’t work full time. So that’s why I think I’m also a little bit hesitant to go into like a higher authority position, just because I know

290 00:34:45.610 00:34:50.189 Hannah Wang: I have to like back down to like 20 h or something like I don’t.

291 00:34:50.330 00:34:54.859 Hannah Wang: I don’t think I can do full time. Obviously I’m not saying that with definite, definitive.

292 00:34:54.860 00:34:56.799 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, but that’s actually helpful to hear.

293 00:34:56.800 00:34:59.889 Hannah Wang: Yeah, like, I, yeah. Cause I don’t.

294 00:35:00.780 00:35:16.140 Hannah Wang: Yeah, we yeah. So that’s kind of why I’m like, Oh, like, I could go for it. And I could try. But I honestly like I just if I have a kid, I want to spend time with them. I don’t wanna just be working all the time. And I wanna

295 00:35:16.440 00:35:29.269 Hannah Wang: be with them and homeschool. I think I mean, it could change obviously. But that’s kind of where my head is at. So that’s why I think, sustainably speaking, yes, designing

296 00:35:29.660 00:35:31.618 Hannah Wang: is the way to go.

297 00:35:32.390 00:35:40.590 Hannah Wang: because that way I can kind of prioritize my family in that way. But yeah, that’s

298 00:35:41.480 00:35:45.866 Hannah Wang: yeah. I’m still like talking about it with Eric and thinking about it. But

299 00:35:47.330 00:35:50.820 Hannah Wang: yeah, that’s kind of an update. I guess there.

300 00:35:51.010 00:35:51.600 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

301 00:35:51.750 00:36:00.070 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, then, from from my lens, I think it’s it’s the right way to go. And I think that’s decision sort of made, I think, sort of long term.

302 00:36:00.070 00:36:00.570 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

303 00:36:00.570 00:36:02.309 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna I’ll speak with Robert. I’m gonna.

304 00:36:02.310 00:36:02.840 Hannah Wang: Yes.

305 00:36:02.840 00:36:06.340 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna we’ll make sure to get you a plan and a little bit of like how we can

306 00:36:06.880 00:36:14.899 Uttam Kumaran: sustain maternity for next year, and like whatever we’re gonna figure out to do that and then I think in the short term.

307 00:36:15.240 00:36:20.289 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. Not sure. I’ll find an immediate like change in like the next few weeks.

308 00:36:20.690 00:36:24.420 Uttam Kumaran: But what we can do is like, I still want you to come and bring up

309 00:36:24.660 00:36:27.810 Uttam Kumaran: like how we can make this more sustainable in the short term, like.

310 00:36:27.810 00:36:28.300 Hannah Wang: Okay.

311 00:36:28.300 00:36:42.162 Uttam Kumaran: If we have to make our decisions and cutting initiatives, then we should do that right. What we’re gonna do. We’re gonna do today, but we’ll do it on Mondays. We’ll look at all the Okrs. I have them all in one place, and we’ll start to see obviously like what we can’t do right.

312 00:36:42.800 00:37:06.680 Uttam Kumaran: And then over time, I think what we’ll do is we’ll find a way for you to at least sit, you know, for me. I would like you to sit. Whatever the highest position we have on design is, you know, and then that way, you can still play a big role. And it’s like it’s it’s not that, like all this, other stuff goes away. I think you will probably be the most enabled, like design person. Or you know, Brand Person, that we have, because you will have seen the whole.

313 00:37:06.800 00:37:15.440 Uttam Kumaran: you know, company. And then we’ll sort of we’ll we’ll figure out like what this whole part of the org looks like overall longer term.

314 00:37:15.580 00:37:20.340 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s helpful to know, and I think I don’t think any of your decisions are like

315 00:37:20.630 00:37:32.650 Uttam Kumaran: wrong or bad. By the way, like, I also think this is a negotiation between a company and its employee like I don’t. Both sides have things they need, and that’s all it is. So it’s not like

316 00:37:32.996 00:37:52.980 Uttam Kumaran: I I don’t know if I could make a different decision in your place. So that’s not. I don’t want it to come up. Come across like I’m disappointed, or anything. I’m not at all. I I just need the clarity, but I also wanna make sure that you’re that you’re not, that you’re not going anywhere, and that I can find a way to keep you in the company in any capacity is what I’m

317 00:37:53.140 00:37:54.750 Uttam Kumaran: that’s my number one goal. So.

318 00:37:54.750 00:37:58.850 Hannah Wang: Okay, yeah, I mean, I’m not pregnant. And I don’t.

319 00:37:58.850 00:37:59.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

320 00:37:59.230 00:38:13.550 Hannah Wang: Know if I will be in the next couple. I mean we we started trying, but I I don’t. Who knows how easy it’ll be so for now, like I can handle it like I can have all the time I’m I’m kid lists like I can work so no like pressure to find.

321 00:38:13.550 00:38:14.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

322 00:38:14.030 00:38:16.790 Hannah Wang: Immediately, like, I can still support

323 00:38:17.420 00:38:27.720 Hannah Wang: But yeah, obviously. And then we have 9 months of gestation. Right? So you have 9 months to figure out. And then after that, Matt leave, and then from there that’ll that’s

324 00:38:28.400 00:38:29.480 Hannah Wang: be different. But.

325 00:38:29.480 00:38:49.969 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s why. But for me, I just. I want you to have clarity on like where you fit, and so that way you can sleep well at night and know that, like we’re the companies here to support you, you know. And I don’t think. And also this is not something that I’m we’re doing for everybody. By the way, which I don’t know if that’s I don’t know what like. We don’t have policies around this, but for me.

326 00:38:50.130 00:39:03.430 Uttam Kumaran: I do this by impact, you know, to the company and by who’s gonna stick with us, and and has spent time and gone out of their way and been a huge impact on our existence today. Right? So that’s the way

327 00:39:03.580 00:39:06.800 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the way I prioritize my attention. So

328 00:39:07.060 00:39:09.539 Uttam Kumaran: like, I wanna make sure that we can.

329 00:39:09.940 00:39:14.836 Uttam Kumaran: We can support you in that. And I think it’s it’s more than fair for us, you know.

330 00:39:15.770 00:39:18.249 Uttam Kumaran: okay, so that makes sense. I’m I’m okay.

331 00:39:18.490 00:39:23.890 Hannah Wang: Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I appreciate you like even thinking that I’m

332 00:39:24.250 00:39:30.297 Hannah Wang: oh, I make an impact. I think I’m a words of affirmation person. So it’s nice to hear that once in a while.

333 00:39:30.560 00:39:48.390 Uttam Kumaran: I think you you will in in 5 years or 10 years, whatever you’re doing, in whatever capacity, whatever organization or in your family you’ll you’ll find that out for yourself. Everybody will tell you. So don’t worry. Maybe I’m just maybe I’m just the 1st in line. So like, I feel like you’re gonna do.

334 00:39:48.670 00:40:00.299 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna you could, you could. You could do whatever you want to do. You’ve shown that. So but yeah, more than I don’t, and I don’t like I don’t. I’m not saying that they gas you up like. That’s why you’re here, part of everything, you know.

335 00:40:00.590 00:40:02.830 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, so.

336 00:40:03.330 00:40:05.425 Hannah Wang: Appreciate that. Yeah. So

337 00:40:06.210 00:40:11.420 Hannah Wang: thanks for the Matt leave thing. And I guess I told you about the money stuff. So.

338 00:40:11.420 00:40:11.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

339 00:40:11.930 00:40:13.490 Hannah Wang: Talk with Robert about that. But.

340 00:40:13.490 00:40:13.830 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.

341 00:40:13.830 00:40:18.700 Hannah Wang: I I know the number he gave me. So, and I feel like that’s

342 00:40:18.960 00:40:28.280 Hannah Wang: good, I think. Oh, I I need a re crunch numbers. But I know the number you gave me, and I mean, that’s better. It’s obviously better than

343 00:40:28.410 00:40:29.520 Hannah Wang: currently so.

344 00:40:29.520 00:40:30.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

345 00:40:30.505 00:40:36.719 Hannah Wang: But yeah, just let me know. I I see a time block on Saturday that you’re gonna talk with him. So.

346 00:40:36.720 00:40:44.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, we’re gonna told him that we should just do something on Saturday to fit a bunch of random stuff to do together. So.

347 00:40:44.300 00:40:48.320 Hannah Wang: Yeah, open, super open calendar. It’s like I can see what everyone’s doing.

348 00:40:48.630 00:40:53.879 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. Yeah, I actually prefer, because if people see my schedule, then hope maybe it makes them work harder.

349 00:40:54.390 00:40:55.330 Hannah Wang: Oh, yeah, nice to meet you.

350 00:40:55.330 00:40:59.060 Hannah Wang: I’m like all these meetings that you’re in back to back. I’m like, all right. It’s time.

351 00:40:59.060 00:41:05.920 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re all different. They’re all very different people and goals. And today was pretty brutal, like I

352 00:41:07.400 00:41:10.360 Uttam Kumaran: I had. I was like really tough. That glimpse meeting was like

353 00:41:10.530 00:41:15.329 Uttam Kumaran: I had to drown a coffee. I was kind of really running out of gas because we’ve been doing a lot of interviews, too.

354 00:41:15.510 00:41:19.499 Hannah Wang: And those I’ve just been selling. Yeah, I’ve just been selling my ass off.

355 00:41:20.294 00:41:25.892 Uttam Kumaran: Trying to convince people to like consider us. So that’s why? Because because

356 00:41:26.750 00:41:30.599 Uttam Kumaran: Amber’s interview is a little bit more specific and more like

357 00:41:31.000 00:41:34.760 Uttam Kumaran: tough. So I don’t. I don’t want. I want them to go into that like

358 00:41:35.610 00:41:39.967 Uttam Kumaran: really excited, and try really hard versus like, if they get that first, st and they get really intimidated.

359 00:41:40.210 00:41:42.860 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm, you know. So

360 00:41:43.440 00:41:47.329 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I don’t mind having. I don’t, not having like any secret meetings or anything. So

361 00:41:48.292 00:41:49.660 Uttam Kumaran: that’s what it is.

362 00:41:49.660 00:41:50.850 Hannah Wang: Calendar.

363 00:41:50.850 00:41:51.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

364 00:41:52.596 00:41:59.533 Hannah Wang: But yeah, I mean, like I said, not going anywhere, for now I’m not pregnant, so I can keep helping

365 00:41:59.880 00:42:00.240 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.

366 00:42:00.240 00:42:04.325 Hannah Wang: It’s definitely been a ramp up. I’m I’m like working closer to 40.

367 00:42:05.100 00:42:05.550 Hannah Wang: Yes.

368 00:42:05.789 00:42:12.009 Hannah Wang: and but then it kind of feels like what you’re saying where it’s like, oh, you have 10 things, but you’re not doing any of those.

369 00:42:12.010 00:42:16.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, exactly. So that’s what we need to talk about is like the depth on things. But yes.

370 00:42:16.120 00:42:16.970 Uttam Kumaran: again, like.

371 00:42:17.170 00:42:24.290 Uttam Kumaran: unless I hear it, I’m not going to know when we’re gonna have mechanisms to address that systematically, like

372 00:42:24.580 00:42:27.700 Uttam Kumaran: we will find when we look at the Okrs.

373 00:42:27.860 00:42:36.600 Uttam Kumaran: what’s not happening, and then we’ll make a decision to either cut them or to to not so I will. I will start to facilitate those conversations pretty

374 00:42:37.040 00:42:38.870 Uttam Kumaran: like actively.

375 00:42:40.230 00:42:46.219 Uttam Kumaran: and I will ask people point blank, because also the results will be there like. And I can. I know what’s challenging.

376 00:42:46.320 00:42:52.770 Uttam Kumaran: But this is the thing like, I can’t save everybody every time I need people to come to that realization

377 00:42:52.960 00:42:54.960 Uttam Kumaran: sort of dropped the ball.

378 00:42:55.400 00:43:01.709 Uttam Kumaran: Say that out loud, and then we could go from there, because that’s the learning. Everybody in the company has to go through that.

379 00:43:01.710 00:43:02.090 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

380 00:43:02.469 00:43:07.360 Uttam Kumaran: Because otherwise you, it will happen in a situation where we can’t salvage it.

381 00:43:07.520 00:43:08.020 Uttam Kumaran: You know.

382 00:43:08.020 00:43:08.570 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

383 00:43:09.086 00:43:13.130 Uttam Kumaran: Whether it’s a customer or partner, or something like that, right like

384 00:43:13.763 00:43:20.819 Uttam Kumaran: but also we’re pushing, we’re pushing it like we. This is not the pace of an average company like we’re working working really hard.

385 00:43:21.271 00:43:26.809 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t. I don’t think. Yeah. I don’t think you’ll ever work at a company that’s trying this many things at the same time.

386 00:43:28.170 00:43:32.340 Uttam Kumaran: I certainly have not, you know. So now.

387 00:43:32.792 00:43:45.379 Hannah Wang: So I think maybe I’m just like at. I feel I feel okay now. But I I’m giving myself the benefit of the doubt of thinking. Oh, I’m just ramping up to it. So we’ll see in the next couple of weeks, like how how everything plays out.

388 00:43:45.380 00:43:49.380 Uttam Kumaran: Treat the Monday meetings really seriously, and the managers meetings like

389 00:43:49.700 00:43:56.549 Uttam Kumaran: try to get that feedback out. So we can spend that time working through the problems. That’s the that’s the best avenue to go.

390 00:43:56.550 00:43:56.970 Hannah Wang: Yeah.

391 00:43:56.970 00:44:02.770 Uttam Kumaran: Because the other check in meetings and getting stuff done. That’s where you need to execute. But the meetings where we have

392 00:44:03.110 00:44:09.929 Uttam Kumaran: to give feedback and give status updates. That’s where I want to hear like this is not working. Or I was not able to get to this.

393 00:44:10.060 00:44:14.109 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s not a you problem. It’s like a we. It’s like a all of us problem. At that point.

394 00:44:15.850 00:44:16.280 Hannah Wang: Hmm.

395 00:44:16.280 00:44:17.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

396 00:44:17.320 00:44:20.985 Hannah Wang: Good to know. Not a me problem, cause that’s the way I frame it. So.

397 00:44:21.230 00:44:21.955 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

398 00:44:22.810 00:44:23.703 Hannah Wang: Cool mindset.

399 00:44:24.887 00:44:30.292 Hannah Wang: But okay, thanks for the chat, and I know you owe me the Tnt slides.

400 00:44:30.630 00:44:31.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, I do. I do.

401 00:44:31.790 00:44:35.510 Hannah Wang: But I can email the I can email blue people the link right.

402 00:44:35.510 00:44:38.369 Uttam Kumaran: Can we just send them the link and then say, it’s our work in progress.

403 00:44:38.560 00:44:39.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, I’ll do that.

404 00:44:39.620 00:44:40.090 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.

405 00:44:40.705 00:44:44.394 Hannah Wang: And then other stuff to review.

406 00:44:46.600 00:45:05.609 Hannah Wang: yeah. And then I are. We’re just gonna keep cranking out the website stuff. So just take a look. We’ll ping you about that. And then I’m trying to think if there’s any other like partnership stuff. Oh, John, from contextual asked

407 00:45:05.960 00:45:06.925 Hannah Wang: if

408 00:45:08.320 00:45:09.599 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I can respond to him.

409 00:45:09.600 00:45:15.240 Hannah Wang: Okay, thanks. I don’t know how to respond to that. And then

410 00:45:16.430 00:45:21.949 Hannah Wang: I and then talisma, have we had a chance to redline stuff and look at.

411 00:45:21.950 00:45:25.220 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, shit. Yeah. I didn’t even look at. I saw the savings. I didn’t look at it.

412 00:45:25.220 00:45:28.189 Hannah Wang: Okay, yeah, you, you responded that we’d look at it. So.

413 00:45:28.190 00:45:29.549 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. I will look at.

414 00:45:29.550 00:45:30.050 Hannah Wang: Okay.

415 00:45:30.550 00:45:31.490 Uttam Kumaran: I will look at it.

416 00:45:32.113 00:45:33.360 Hannah Wang: And then.

417 00:45:33.770 00:45:43.440 Hannah Wang: yeah, I’ll summarize all these things and and then send it to you. So you have it in one place. But I’m gonna look through all the partnership stuff and see if there’s pending tasks, and then I’ll message you.

418 00:45:43.440 00:45:44.040 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

419 00:45:45.620 00:45:46.019 Hannah Wang: All right.

420 00:45:46.470 00:45:47.300 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect.

421 00:45:47.550 00:45:48.750 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.

422 00:45:48.750 00:45:49.630 Hannah Wang: You, bye.

423 00:45:49.630 00:45:50.439 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? Bye.