Meeting Title: 30 Min Meeting between Amber Siru Lin and Carlos Octavio Razo- Project Management Coordinator- Blue People Date: 2025-07-15 Meeting participants: Carlos Razo, Amber Lin, Daniela
WEBVTT
1 00:00:02.560 ⇒ 00:00:03.660 Amber Lin: Hi, Carlos!
2 00:00:03.660 ⇒ 00:00:04.830 Carlos Razo: Hi amber.
3 00:00:05.180 ⇒ 00:00:28.600 Amber Lin: Hi! So a quick overview of this interview, and it’s the 1st time you you’re talking to Brainforge. So a quick intro about me. So I’m the current project manager at Brainforge. I joined about, say, 4 months ago. And currently I manage a few clients. And then we’re currently in the process of building our project management function.
4 00:00:29.090 ⇒ 00:00:57.059 Amber Lin: And so how this interview will be structured is that we have a list of few questions that we ask in screening rounds for each candidate, and then, at the end of the interview, feel we’ll have a space for you to ask any questions you want, and then we’ll. We’ll continue on to the next rounds. If I’ll report to my supervisor on how this went, and then they will decide if we want to move on to the next round.
5 00:00:57.720 ⇒ 00:00:58.480 Carlos Razo: Okay.
6 00:00:58.970 ⇒ 00:01:05.329 Amber Lin: Yeah, so let me pull that out.
7 00:01:06.460 ⇒ 00:01:17.720 Amber Lin: Okay, so the 1st question I have is, I want to know, what are your career goals.
8 00:01:21.675 ⇒ 00:01:32.710 Carlos Razo: The 1st or or the principal goal in in my career is looking for stability in high enterprise.
9 00:01:33.310 ⇒ 00:01:43.449 Carlos Razo: That allow me to rice through any level and growing in professional.
10 00:01:46.450 ⇒ 00:01:52.819 Carlos Razo: Yeah, I I like to learn a lot of new new tools and.
11 00:01:53.440 ⇒ 00:01:57.310 Carlos Razo: To get new skills. I like to work in
12 00:01:57.540 ⇒ 00:02:05.639 Carlos Razo: in some places where where I can learn new new things. I, eager for learning
13 00:02:05.780 ⇒ 00:02:10.389 Carlos Razo: even in my house, I I take courses or
14 00:02:10.880 ⇒ 00:02:15.739 Carlos Razo: look videos or or something. I I like learning a lot.
15 00:02:18.120 ⇒ 00:02:28.089 Amber Lin: okay, thank you for answering that. And the second question, we have is what are you really good at professionally.
16 00:02:31.370 ⇒ 00:02:34.869 Carlos Razo: I barely hear you. Can you repeat the question? Please?
17 00:02:35.892 ⇒ 00:02:39.820 Amber Lin: My question was, What are you really good at? Professionally.
18 00:02:41.140 ⇒ 00:02:52.520 Carlos Razo: I’m a very organized people. I like to solve problems. I am very good solving problems, and then
19 00:02:52.890 ⇒ 00:03:01.240 Carlos Razo: put in practice all all my knowledge and my skills as a private player. I’m good at that.
20 00:03:02.320 ⇒ 00:03:16.959 Amber Lin: Okay, can you elaborate a little bit about what you mean when you say solving problems or organizing or putting in place practice like knowledge and things you’ve learned. Can you give me examples of what that means?
21 00:03:17.100 ⇒ 00:03:25.090 Carlos Razo: Okay, I I am a electronic engineer. I I enjoy math and physics and all.
22 00:03:25.988 ⇒ 00:03:27.301 Carlos Razo: All that is.
23 00:03:28.630 ⇒ 00:03:34.269 Carlos Razo: And I like solve problems like puzzles, logic problems, something like that.
24 00:03:34.610 ⇒ 00:03:45.095 Carlos Razo: But in in the job, and as a project manager when some project is not
25 00:03:46.560 ⇒ 00:03:49.760 Carlos Razo: in full with the project plan.
26 00:03:49.920 ⇒ 00:03:53.990 Carlos Razo: Some projects, or maybe all projects, have
27 00:03:54.180 ⇒ 00:04:03.109 Carlos Razo: a little deviation from the project plan. There are. No, no, there not exist perfect planning.
28 00:04:03.420 ⇒ 00:04:12.860 Carlos Razo: You many times. Don’t know what’s gonna happen in the project, with the resources, with with the the team, the the
29 00:04:13.160 ⇒ 00:04:18.450 Carlos Razo: the even with the requirements. Sometimes
30 00:04:18.630 ⇒ 00:04:26.820 Carlos Razo: here in Mexico happens a lot that change the requirements. You start the project with with some goal and
31 00:04:27.140 ⇒ 00:04:29.890 Carlos Razo: and looking for some something, but but
32 00:04:31.180 ⇒ 00:04:39.769 Carlos Razo: one month later they want to change the requirements, and you have to adjust the resources, adjust the the
33 00:04:39.990 ⇒ 00:04:50.820 Carlos Razo: the the plan, adjust anything. And I have to solve that type of problems and look forward for some issues or some
34 00:04:51.720 ⇒ 00:04:55.479 Carlos Razo: things that could happen and avoid avoid to happen.
35 00:04:55.690 ⇒ 00:05:02.370 Carlos Razo: You are working for reduce the
36 00:05:03.240 ⇒ 00:05:10.200 Carlos Razo: the percentage of probability that that things happen to to issue appears in the project.
37 00:05:11.053 ⇒ 00:05:12.180 Amber Lin: Okay, awesome.
38 00:05:12.794 ⇒ 00:05:20.680 Amber Lin: What about when you said organizing, do you mean organizing people or organizing knowledge, what do you mean by organizing.
39 00:05:21.050 ⇒ 00:05:27.720 Carlos Razo: Organize it in my work. I’m a very practical person. I
40 00:05:28.516 ⇒ 00:05:42.959 Carlos Razo: use a a notebook for right the things I have to do. And maybe in some electronic tools or some software tools
41 00:05:43.270 ⇒ 00:05:52.800 Carlos Razo: to help me to check, I have to do. I’m very organized and and try to
42 00:05:53.370 ⇒ 00:06:01.760 Carlos Razo: organize that in the project plan and work with with my team for for an organized work.
43 00:06:04.150 ⇒ 00:06:04.900 Amber Lin: Okay?
44 00:06:05.916 ⇒ 00:06:07.209 Amber Lin: That’s great.
45 00:06:07.826 ⇒ 00:06:16.639 Amber Lin: Then the last point you said was to put in practice on knowledge that you’ve learned before can you give me an example of when that happened.
46 00:06:18.760 ⇒ 00:06:31.630 Carlos Razo: Yeah. For example, here in Mexico, we use mixed methodologies. We use weatherfall methodologies and agile methodologies.
47 00:06:31.820 ⇒ 00:06:36.950 Carlos Razo: So we in Mexico.
48 00:06:37.250 ⇒ 00:06:48.010 Carlos Razo: like a lot to use a screen so I tried to apply my knowledge in this room as a screen master.
49 00:06:48.760 ⇒ 00:06:55.249 Carlos Razo: A, taking the the ceremonies from from his room
50 00:06:55.770 ⇒ 00:07:03.429 Carlos Razo: and and working in an agile and yeah, like way to
51 00:07:04.050 ⇒ 00:07:07.640 Carlos Razo: advancing the project, we have the
52 00:07:07.830 ⇒ 00:07:18.160 Carlos Razo: daily meeting. We have the retrospective. We have all the ceremonies in in scrum, and try to use
53 00:07:18.460 ⇒ 00:07:20.429 Carlos Razo: for the good of the project.
54 00:07:20.880 ⇒ 00:07:23.440 Amber Lin: Hmm, okay, sounds great.
55 00:07:24.170 ⇒ 00:07:36.209 Amber Lin: And then the 3rd question we have is very similar to the second one. It’s the opposite of that. So that one asks, What are you not good at, or not interested in doing professionally?
56 00:07:39.080 ⇒ 00:07:45.479 Carlos Razo: I’m not interested in, been in, in
57 00:07:47.280 ⇒ 00:07:51.450 Carlos Razo: is not growing up, in the, in, the, in, the job, in
58 00:07:52.510 ⇒ 00:08:04.180 Carlos Razo: be, in the I look at stability. It’s it’s contradictory. Because in in my 1st or my second answer, I said, I look for stability. I look at stability, but
59 00:08:04.300 ⇒ 00:08:10.470 Carlos Razo: I like to grow up in in the job. Not not being the same job for
60 00:08:11.060 ⇒ 00:08:17.909 Carlos Razo: all my left. I I, as I say, I like to learn, and I like to
61 00:08:18.330 ⇒ 00:08:22.150 Carlos Razo: share my knowledge with with the people. I I like to
62 00:08:23.210 ⇒ 00:08:32.380 Carlos Razo: enhance the people for learn more and for grow up. So I I want to grow up. I don’t want to be
63 00:08:35.190 ⇒ 00:08:42.419 Carlos Razo: stated in in some place doing the the same thing for for a life. Yes.
64 00:08:45.400 ⇒ 00:08:46.180 Amber Lin: Okay.
65 00:08:46.559 ⇒ 00:09:00.239 Amber Lin: Then what would you say that you are not good at doing professionally? Thank you for answering what you’re not interested in, and I’ll have a I have an answer for that in a bit, but I want to know what you think. You are not good at professionally.
66 00:09:00.780 ⇒ 00:09:07.980 Carlos Razo: I. There are a lot of methodologies I don’t even know, or or some tools I don’t don’t even know.
67 00:09:08.210 ⇒ 00:09:16.670 Carlos Razo: For example, here for the break I have to use linear linear. I don’t know linear. But I
68 00:09:16.810 ⇒ 00:09:22.090 Carlos Razo: I can learn. I can know how to to use that tool. No.
69 00:09:22.200 ⇒ 00:09:27.989 Carlos Razo: but but today I don’t know even if the linear tool exists.
70 00:09:28.290 ⇒ 00:09:39.649 Carlos Razo: So I started to find what is linear, what it’s about, what I need to to use it how I can use it for for the project.
71 00:09:40.605 ⇒ 00:09:41.120 Amber Lin: Okay.
72 00:09:41.120 ⇒ 00:09:45.389 Carlos Razo: There. There are many tools I don’t know, and every day
73 00:09:45.780 ⇒ 00:09:49.210 Carlos Razo: I are new tools in the market, and
74 00:09:49.390 ⇒ 00:09:55.860 Carlos Razo: new tools for different projects that that I don’t don’t familiar with.
75 00:09:56.610 ⇒ 00:09:57.550 Amber Lin: I see.
76 00:09:58.380 ⇒ 00:10:17.849 Amber Lin: Okay, I think the last question I have, and after that feel free to ask me any questions. So the last question we have is, who were your last 5 bosses, and how will they each rate your performance on a 1 to 10 scale when we talk to them?
77 00:10:22.310 ⇒ 00:10:32.460 Carlos Razo: My last boss was very helpful, was I was working in a finance company.
78 00:10:34.074 ⇒ 00:10:45.169 Carlos Razo: It’s it’s like very familiar, a fine form for working. I
79 00:10:45.270 ⇒ 00:10:57.090 Carlos Razo: I feel very supported by by my boss, and was great working there the previous one.
80 00:10:57.617 ⇒ 00:11:06.239 Amber Lin: Sorry, I think, for the last one. Would you say? What? How would he rate your performance on a 1 to 10 scale when we talk to them.
81 00:11:08.875 ⇒ 00:11:14.310 Carlos Razo: He let me free to work.
82 00:11:15.080 ⇒ 00:11:23.660 Carlos Razo: Send me dates, or send me goals, or send me send. Send me some things I have to
83 00:11:25.060 ⇒ 00:11:31.359 Carlos Razo: to do so. i i i do my my work.
84 00:11:32.300 ⇒ 00:11:39.100 Carlos Razo: but but I I feel free for asking for some advice or for some help if I need it.
85 00:11:39.670 ⇒ 00:11:42.860 Carlos Razo: And that’s the the way we worked.
86 00:11:47.870 ⇒ 00:11:50.750 Carlos Razo: I don’t know if that answers the the question.
87 00:11:50.970 ⇒ 00:11:59.320 Amber Lin: Oh, my question was that, how would he rate you on a 1 to 10 scale? Would he rate you a 5, a 10.
88 00:11:59.670 ⇒ 00:12:03.150 Carlos Razo: My right. I write him.
89 00:12:03.820 ⇒ 00:12:05.740 Amber Lin: He would, how he would rate you.
90 00:12:07.324 ⇒ 00:12:08.539 Carlos Razo: I don’t know.
91 00:12:08.940 ⇒ 00:12:11.980 Carlos Razo: Maybe 9.
92 00:12:14.050 ⇒ 00:12:18.700 Carlos Razo: Because no, I wasn’t perfect, but I do very well.
93 00:12:19.630 ⇒ 00:12:23.719 Amber Lin: Okay. So he would be very happy with your performance when we call him.
94 00:12:24.240 ⇒ 00:12:24.760 Carlos Razo: Yes.
95 00:12:24.990 ⇒ 00:12:29.270 Amber Lin: Okay, that’s really great to hear. What about the boss before that.
96 00:12:30.515 ⇒ 00:12:36.300 Carlos Razo: The guards are very complicated situation the the company is
97 00:12:39.630 ⇒ 00:12:48.740 Carlos Razo: have very many functions. Some of them is a bank and selling
98 00:12:50.450 ⇒ 00:12:55.259 Carlos Razo: groceries or a departmental store. It’s it’s many
99 00:12:55.810 ⇒ 00:13:03.180 Carlos Razo: business areas from that company. And I was working in the financial area.
100 00:13:03.180 ⇒ 00:13:03.740 Amber Lin: Hmm.
101 00:13:04.390 ⇒ 00:13:06.059 Carlos Razo: Both the boss.
102 00:13:07.170 ⇒ 00:13:09.380 Carlos Razo: I was working for the Pmo.
103 00:13:09.570 ⇒ 00:13:17.210 Carlos Razo: And there are. There are many project managers in that project management office.
104 00:13:19.670 ⇒ 00:13:34.230 Carlos Razo: Each Pm was a segment for some area. I was in the in the it’s innovation area.
105 00:13:34.720 ⇒ 00:13:38.500 Carlos Razo: I was working with new Projects board the bus there
106 00:13:39.420 ⇒ 00:13:45.169 Carlos Razo: doesn’t like the Pmo. He doesn’t want.
107 00:13:45.400 ⇒ 00:13:53.629 Carlos Razo: They break my 9 years, and I was the 3rd or 4th project manager assigned it to that project.
108 00:13:53.630 ⇒ 00:13:54.040 Amber Lin: Hmm.
109 00:13:54.040 ⇒ 00:14:01.620 Carlos Razo: Because she he fired all the the the previous managers.
110 00:14:02.700 ⇒ 00:14:12.930 Carlos Razo: So so the the director tell me, before I was hired
111 00:14:13.060 ⇒ 00:14:18.419 Carlos Razo: the the issue. He tell me that he wasn’t
112 00:14:19.370 ⇒ 00:14:25.459 Carlos Razo: feel comfortable with with the project managers. So it was a difficult task.
113 00:14:25.830 ⇒ 00:14:29.259 Carlos Razo: So I take take the risk, and I work with him.
114 00:14:31.270 ⇒ 00:14:36.630 Carlos Razo: The the previous project managers stay in the break
115 00:14:36.900 ⇒ 00:14:43.939 Carlos Razo: 2 months, or 4 or 3 months I stay with him for a year.
116 00:14:44.160 ⇒ 00:14:47.010 Carlos Razo: It was the property manager who
117 00:14:47.230 ⇒ 00:14:49.660 Carlos Razo: who most time is spent with the project.
118 00:14:50.130 ⇒ 00:14:50.800 Amber Lin: Wow!
119 00:14:50.800 ⇒ 00:15:04.040 Carlos Razo: But but it’s a difficult situation it’s a a very tension form of working. And
120 00:15:04.790 ⇒ 00:15:14.890 Carlos Razo: finally I was change it to another project, and another project manager was assigned to that project. I think he read me
121 00:15:15.130 ⇒ 00:15:20.790 Carlos Razo: like all the other pre managers, less than 6 or 5. I don’t know.
122 00:15:23.160 ⇒ 00:15:30.750 Amber Lin: where he would rate you and the other project managers as less than 6. But I thought he really liked you, and he let you stay for a year.
123 00:15:31.640 ⇒ 00:15:36.459 Carlos Razo: Yeah, yeah, over the year he tried to
124 00:15:37.590 ⇒ 00:15:40.669 Carlos Razo: put me out of the project and
125 00:15:41.290 ⇒ 00:15:44.860 Carlos Razo: talk with the project management office
126 00:15:45.100 ⇒ 00:15:49.579 Carlos Razo: for a change, or or for looking for someone else.
127 00:15:50.440 ⇒ 00:15:56.929 Carlos Razo: But but with my work they they he don’t have any.
128 00:15:58.170 ⇒ 00:16:04.329 Carlos Razo: A strong argument, for for I will be changing for the project.
129 00:16:04.530 ⇒ 00:16:05.530 Amber Lin: Hmm.
130 00:16:06.580 ⇒ 00:16:13.929 Carlos Razo: So until some many projects I was working for was ended.
131 00:16:14.030 ⇒ 00:16:18.220 Carlos Razo: So that’s the way he said.
132 00:16:18.480 ⇒ 00:16:20.469 Carlos Razo: He need me anymore.
133 00:16:21.832 ⇒ 00:16:26.669 Amber Lin: I see. Okay, so would he. Do you think he still rates you a 6.
134 00:16:28.500 ⇒ 00:16:29.000 Carlos Razo: Yes.
135 00:16:29.000 ⇒ 00:16:33.960 Amber Lin: I think the other Pm’s probably gets a lower rating because they only lasted 2 to 3 months.
136 00:16:34.970 ⇒ 00:16:42.019 Carlos Razo: Yes, see? Yes, I think he really may be fine.
137 00:16:43.240 ⇒ 00:16:45.373 Carlos Razo: It’s a very difficult person.
138 00:16:45.800 ⇒ 00:16:46.510 Amber Lin: Okay.
139 00:16:46.510 ⇒ 00:16:48.950 Carlos Razo: It’s. It’s complicated.
140 00:16:49.510 ⇒ 00:16:58.709 Amber Lin: Okay, okay, that’s I mean that happens. And I mean, that’s why you went to work for the other company which rated you at 9, which means it’s just a better fit for you.
141 00:16:58.980 ⇒ 00:16:59.760 Carlos Razo: Jeez.
142 00:17:01.020 ⇒ 00:17:02.990 Amber Lin: What about the boss before that.
143 00:17:07.659 ⇒ 00:17:12.359 Carlos Razo: Before that I was in.
144 00:17:16.669 ⇒ 00:17:25.629 Carlos Razo: That’s a a complicated situation. I was hired for
145 00:17:26.599 ⇒ 00:17:29.479 Carlos Razo: create a new product management office.
146 00:17:30.863 ⇒ 00:17:40.950 Carlos Razo: That’s Power Street was a company, or or it’s a company who work with an app for and
147 00:17:44.760 ⇒ 00:17:50.519 Carlos Razo: for for the small groceries or or small.
148 00:17:51.360 ⇒ 00:17:58.790 Carlos Razo: Yeah, it’s a small groceries in Mexico who ask the the probators
149 00:17:59.220 ⇒ 00:18:06.800 Carlos Razo: something and send some people to big the.
150 00:18:08.310 ⇒ 00:18:15.709 Carlos Razo: They take the the things he wanted, and we, the the company, sent.
151 00:18:17.300 ⇒ 00:18:20.730 Carlos Razo: send the the product to the grocery store.
152 00:18:21.195 ⇒ 00:18:21.660 Amber Lin: Okay.
153 00:18:22.340 ⇒ 00:18:23.510 Carlos Razo: And
154 00:18:24.120 ⇒ 00:18:36.909 Carlos Razo: they have many project managers, but they don’t have a project management office. So they want to implement the project management office, and I was hired for that.
155 00:18:37.180 ⇒ 00:18:37.840 Amber Lin: Okay.
156 00:18:39.140 ⇒ 00:18:45.540 Carlos Razo: But it was at the end of the year. In the last months, November, December.
157 00:18:45.670 ⇒ 00:18:46.320 Amber Lin: Hmm.
158 00:18:46.320 ⇒ 00:18:50.789 Carlos Razo: And I start working with the project managers.
159 00:18:51.180 ⇒ 00:18:56.929 Carlos Razo: I only work there for for November and December, because the.
160 00:18:58.310 ⇒ 00:19:08.170 Carlos Razo: The the owner of the enterprise or the company have so many work and and.
161 00:19:09.010 ⇒ 00:19:11.409 Carlos Razo: Don’t have the money for for payment, so.
162 00:19:11.410 ⇒ 00:19:12.599 Amber Lin: Oh, I see!
163 00:19:12.600 ⇒ 00:19:14.349 Carlos Razo: Close the project or so.
164 00:19:14.700 ⇒ 00:19:15.420 Amber Lin: Oh!
165 00:19:15.420 ⇒ 00:19:20.399 Carlos Razo: The project, management, project, management, office and.
166 00:19:20.400 ⇒ 00:19:21.150 Amber Lin: Wow!
167 00:19:21.150 ⇒ 00:19:25.750 Carlos Razo: The project, and I can continue with the the project.
168 00:19:25.750 ⇒ 00:19:39.130 Amber Lin: I see, I see that’s unfortunate. Would you say that with the with the time that you’re working with him, how would he rate you cause he didn’t fire. If he didn’t fire you, he just didn’t have the money. How would he rate you.
169 00:19:40.390 ⇒ 00:19:46.010 Carlos Razo: And maybe it’s not time enough for Rainy. But.
170 00:19:46.010 ⇒ 00:19:46.430 Amber Lin: Hmm.
171 00:19:46.430 ⇒ 00:19:51.140 Carlos Razo: In that time. I I think I’m 8.
172 00:19:51.530 ⇒ 00:19:53.360 Amber Lin: Okay, that’s really awesome.
173 00:19:54.870 ⇒ 00:19:55.570 Carlos Razo: Yes.
174 00:19:55.760 ⇒ 00:20:12.139 Amber Lin: Yeah, okay, thank you for telling me all of this information. I think I have a really good profile to show to my supervisor of what? What you have done and accomplished. Do you have any questions you would like to ask me.
175 00:20:14.130 ⇒ 00:20:24.639 Carlos Razo: I maybe about the teams or about the way they they work. How it will be.
176 00:20:25.200 ⇒ 00:20:43.129 Amber Lin: Yeah. So we are a fully remote team. So our people are all across the world. I’m in the Us. I think the most of the company’s clients are in the Us. And then we have a few people working in the Us. We have someone.
177 00:20:43.130 ⇒ 00:20:57.889 Amber Lin: We have a few working in the Philippines, and then someone in Europe. So Spain and Malta. And then we have someone I think, in before in Argentina. So we really work from everywhere, and
178 00:20:58.190 ⇒ 00:21:15.650 Amber Lin: we don’t have a set 9 to 5 any. You need to be there. So as long as you attend the required meetings and deliver work on time. We don’t have a requirement on where you work, and when you work.
179 00:21:15.810 ⇒ 00:21:20.759 Amber Lin: and in terms of ways of working, we are a
180 00:21:20.970 ⇒ 00:21:33.060 Amber Lin: consulting company. So we have a lot of different projects for different clients. And we don’t have a product that’s uniform. So each project is going to be different. And each team is about
181 00:21:33.550 ⇒ 00:21:50.200 Amber Lin: 2 to 4 people including including the man and plus the project manager, and so depending on the size of the team, each team might work differently, and it’s up to the project manager to decide how your team works.
182 00:21:50.310 ⇒ 00:21:52.220 Amber Lin: I hope that answers your question.
183 00:21:52.420 ⇒ 00:21:59.839 Carlos Razo: Yeah, sure. That’s that’s okay. Thank you. That that’s the only question I had.
184 00:21:59.840 ⇒ 00:22:00.760 Amber Lin: Oh, okay.
185 00:22:01.410 ⇒ 00:22:22.079 Amber Lin: sounds good. Yeah. So I will for the next steps. I’m going to present this to my boss, and then, depending on what they say. I think Rico will get back to you on the next steps, and if you have any questions in the meantime feel free to email, me, you have my email from this link.
186 00:22:22.520 ⇒ 00:22:24.159 Carlos Razo: Okay, sure. Thank you. Amber.
187 00:22:24.350 ⇒ 00:22:26.080 Amber Lin: Yeah, thank you so much, Carlos.
188 00:22:26.230 ⇒ 00:22:28.089 Amber Lin: It’s great and pleasure talking to you.
189 00:22:28.460 ⇒ 00:22:29.860 Carlos Razo: I hope to see you soon.
190 00:22:30.110 ⇒ 00:22:31.760 Amber Lin: Yep, bye.
191 00:22:31.760 ⇒ 00:22:32.460 Carlos Razo: Right.