Meeting Title: Brian <> BF - Referral Partner Sync Date: 2025-07-14 Meeting participants: Hannah Wang, Brian Pei, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:01:25.400 ⇒ 00:01:26.390 Brian Pei: Hello!
2 00:01:27.970 ⇒ 00:01:28.930 Hannah Wang: Hey!
3 00:01:29.080 ⇒ 00:01:30.430 Brian Pei: How’s it going?
4 00:01:31.000 ⇒ 00:01:31.750 Brian Pei: Good!
5 00:01:31.860 ⇒ 00:01:32.909 Brian Pei: How are you.
6 00:01:35.137 ⇒ 00:01:42.895 Hannah Wang: Monday, it’s always my brain is always like not recovered from Friday, so.
7 00:01:43.340 ⇒ 00:01:45.060 Brian Pei: I understand.
8 00:01:47.260 ⇒ 00:01:55.100 Hannah Wang: I don’t know where Itom is, but we’ll give it a couple, and it’s for him to join.
9 00:01:55.530 ⇒ 00:01:56.190 Brian Pei: Cool.
10 00:01:57.400 ⇒ 00:01:59.350 Brian Pei: That’s good with me.
11 00:02:00.090 ⇒ 00:02:05.940 Brian Pei: I don’t know. I thought he was optional on these. I thought I was just gonna start making
12 00:02:06.710 ⇒ 00:02:08.470 Brian Pei: colds, cold calls, or something.
13 00:02:08.479 ⇒ 00:02:15.619 Hannah Wang: No, no, I mean, ideally, he’d be optional. I think I’m
14 00:02:15.879 ⇒ 00:02:25.005 Hannah Wang: kind of. I’m like kind of stretching into this role. So I’m not like entirely comfortable, just like handling partnerships on my own, or just like all that stuff.
15 00:02:25.320 ⇒ 00:02:26.199 Brian Pei: Okay. Fair enough.
16 00:02:26.200 ⇒ 00:02:30.790 Hannah Wang: Ideally he’d be here, I mean, I see that he accepted the meeting, invite, but.
17 00:02:30.970 ⇒ 00:02:31.380 Brian Pei: Okay.
18 00:02:32.440 ⇒ 00:02:43.479 Hannah Wang: yeah, you don’t need to. Well, I mean, we have like a template for you. That you can use to just like go after people. But we can talk about that in a bit.
19 00:02:43.480 ⇒ 00:02:53.209 Brian Pei: Okay, see if I still have a rainforge email account.
20 00:02:54.430 ⇒ 00:02:57.540 Hannah Wang: I can also try to search for you on slack
21 00:02:59.610 ⇒ 00:03:01.994 Brian Pei: I think. Oh, no,
22 00:03:02.900 ⇒ 00:03:08.830 Brian Pei: yeah, I haven’t done anything in like a year. So I told her, Tom to just save money, so I think I’m
23 00:03:09.250 ⇒ 00:03:10.340 Brian Pei: kicked off.
24 00:03:14.180 ⇒ 00:03:15.370 Brian Pei: which is fair.
25 00:03:15.750 ⇒ 00:03:18.340 Brian Pei: He didn’t have to pay for me. I wasn’t.
26 00:03:18.770 ⇒ 00:03:20.440 Brian Pei: Let me see, it’s July.
27 00:03:21.490 ⇒ 00:03:28.479 Brian Pei: So this past fall was the last time I did something, and then
28 00:03:31.220 ⇒ 00:03:35.100 Brian Pei: Utam says I disappeared, which is true. I kinda did.
29 00:03:35.410 ⇒ 00:03:40.879 Hannah Wang: Yeah, he said. You ghosted him or something. I don’t know that one time you were playing golf.
30 00:03:42.000 ⇒ 00:03:47.999 Brian Pei: No, I was in Vegas, and I was gambling, and I couldn’t answer my phone.
31 00:03:52.610 ⇒ 00:03:53.600 Hannah Wang: That’s fair.
32 00:03:55.190 ⇒ 00:03:57.070 Hannah Wang: How did you meet Utam?
33 00:03:58.030 ⇒ 00:03:59.680 Brian Pei: We both went to Bucknell.
34 00:03:59.950 ⇒ 00:04:01.980 Hannah Wang: Oh, I see!
35 00:04:01.980 ⇒ 00:04:07.530 Brian Pei: And I helped him. I’m a bit older than him, so I helped him get a job at
36 00:04:07.710 ⇒ 00:04:10.610 Brian Pei: we work. When I worked there.
37 00:04:11.538 ⇒ 00:04:17.930 Brian Pei: I got him like his 1st professional gig, and we work.
38 00:04:18.870 ⇒ 00:04:19.689 Uttam Kumaran: Who me?
39 00:04:20.610 ⇒ 00:04:26.070 Hannah Wang: Yeah, you ask how you guys met, yeah.
40 00:04:26.070 ⇒ 00:04:28.290 Uttam Kumaran: Long time, long story.
41 00:04:30.090 ⇒ 00:04:32.569 Brian Pei: Yeah, we almost got we work rich until we didn’t.
42 00:04:33.070 ⇒ 00:04:36.000 Uttam Kumaran: I was never gonna get rich from there. You may be, you.
43 00:04:36.710 ⇒ 00:04:39.459 Brian Pei: No, my strike was like 18.
44 00:04:40.100 ⇒ 00:04:41.780 Uttam Kumaran: My strike was like 30.
45 00:04:42.710 ⇒ 00:04:45.080 Brian Pei: I still wouldn’t gotten rich, but it would have been
46 00:04:45.260 ⇒ 00:04:50.439 Brian Pei: nice to not get 0 like anything other than 0 would have been cool.
47 00:04:56.280 ⇒ 00:04:59.350 Brian Pei: I’m on 2 computers. So that’s why I’m looking down.
48 00:05:03.543 ⇒ 00:05:10.749 Hannah Wang: Okay, so I guess the main goal of these things I mean, ours is weekly, which
49 00:05:11.650 ⇒ 00:05:15.531 Hannah Wang: I don’t know if you still oh, it’s bi-weekly, okay,
50 00:05:16.550 ⇒ 00:05:29.369 Hannah Wang: yeah. The main goal is just to see like what kind of intros you can make. And then also how we like we can share on our side. Our existing pipeline of clients, so that you can kind of see the type of
51 00:05:29.850 ⇒ 00:05:35.469 Hannah Wang: like the market that we’re going for and ask if you can like intro us to
52 00:05:36.035 ⇒ 00:05:39.519 Hannah Wang: folks in kind of the sector that we’re
53 00:05:39.870 ⇒ 00:05:54.120 Hannah Wang: aiming for but I guess on the agenda. There’s also like client stories that would be interesting to share. I don’t know, Tom, if you have like any of those that you want to quickly mention before
54 00:05:54.410 ⇒ 00:05:56.700 Hannah Wang: we kind of dive into other stuff.
55 00:05:56.910 ⇒ 00:06:05.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, can we pull up like, maybe just the the slide with all of our clients? And I can just point out a couple that maybe Brian hasn’t seen yet.
56 00:06:05.420 ⇒ 00:06:07.868 Hannah Wang: Give me one sec.
57 00:06:08.480 ⇒ 00:06:12.789 Brian Pei: Utah. In the meantime, can you reactivate my Brainforge Gmail account.
58 00:06:13.600 ⇒ 00:06:16.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, I will. Have someone do that.
59 00:06:17.576 ⇒ 00:06:18.869 Brian Pei: Okay. Cool.
60 00:06:22.340 ⇒ 00:06:25.456 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, we can also get you into slack
61 00:06:27.640 ⇒ 00:06:29.530 Brian Pei: Again. Let’s go!
62 00:06:30.958 ⇒ 00:06:33.409 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. So yeah, I think since
63 00:06:34.330 ⇒ 00:06:41.940 Uttam Kumaran: we now worked with a bunch of people, I think since we last time talked some of these. Maybe you may be just familiar with in general, like
64 00:06:42.190 ⇒ 00:06:47.290 Uttam Kumaran: course via cocoa, you kind of know, just from bodegas and stuff
65 00:06:47.480 ⇒ 00:06:50.820 Uttam Kumaran: Javi coffee we worked with there like a coffee subscription
66 00:06:51.040 ⇒ 00:06:59.790 Uttam Kumaran: sort of Gen. Z. Company. Eden. Health is like a competitor to row, and hims for glp. One
67 00:07:00.795 ⇒ 00:07:05.260 Uttam Kumaran: like ozempic type stuff. Urban stems a flower
68 00:07:05.360 ⇒ 00:07:07.979 Uttam Kumaran: and then bolt is kind of like a
69 00:07:08.300 ⇒ 00:07:14.670 Uttam Kumaran: by this company called Stack Blitz. They’re like one of the big companies where you type in what you want to build, and it builds you like the entire AI
70 00:07:14.860 ⇒ 00:07:15.730 Uttam Kumaran: product.
71 00:07:17.360 ⇒ 00:07:19.170 Uttam Kumaran: They’re one of those companies.
72 00:07:19.890 ⇒ 00:07:25.339 Uttam Kumaran: Art helper was like an art. AI company echo chess. I think Robert worked with them.
73 00:07:25.480 ⇒ 00:07:30.029 Uttam Kumaran: Read me their b 2 b saas for documentation.
74 00:07:31.470 ⇒ 00:07:34.470 Uttam Kumaran: And then yeah, a bunch of like random ones on the right.
75 00:07:35.250 ⇒ 00:07:42.079 Uttam Kumaran: so we have a lot of different ones. I would say, like to give you any sort of context on like what we’re going for. We’re going for mid market
76 00:07:43.261 ⇒ 00:07:47.680 Uttam Kumaran: growing companies who want to grow revenue
77 00:07:49.520 ⇒ 00:07:55.479 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s really where I think we have the best shot at at like delivering. I mean, of course, we can go
78 00:07:56.070 ⇒ 00:08:00.609 Uttam Kumaran: if you have leads that are like much bigger we can go after. But typically
79 00:08:01.010 ⇒ 00:08:03.520 Uttam Kumaran: they will have all their competing people. And
80 00:08:04.030 ⇒ 00:08:06.960 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I think we’re really in the sweet spot where it’s just like
81 00:08:07.070 ⇒ 00:08:12.800 Uttam Kumaran: 5 to a hundred 1 million in revenue ideally 20 to a hundred 1 million in revenue or higher, is where we’re like
82 00:08:13.420 ⇒ 00:08:36.110 Uttam Kumaran: kind of like nailing it because they meet me or they meet Robert and we. I’ve just done this so many times, and especially if it comes to anything in in AI, because we use AI a lot internally. We talk directly to those problems and anything around data, too. It’s it’s pretty simple for us to talk through potential possibilities.
83 00:08:36.495 ⇒ 00:08:43.140 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, a lot of the people we’re talking to these days are related to AI, though where they have some some sort of like
84 00:08:43.400 ⇒ 00:08:54.939 Uttam Kumaran: push internally to like, figure out AI or leverage AI for efficiency, and then they call me. I think we get intro to them somehow, and then I just sort of give them a spiel on how we do things and the types of things we build.
85 00:08:55.408 ⇒ 00:09:01.799 Uttam Kumaran: But of course, the general data stuff is still valid, too. Where we come in. Either people have a data warehouse or they don’t have anything at all.
86 00:09:02.293 ⇒ 00:09:15.040 Uttam Kumaran: And we build, I would say a lot of times on the data side where we’re winning is we come in to fix their amplitude, mixed panel, rudder, stack, like their product analytics, and then kind of like burrow in from there.
87 00:09:15.190 ⇒ 00:09:21.709 Uttam Kumaran: So and and those are typically people with Sas applications that are using that, of course. But
88 00:09:21.820 ⇒ 00:09:24.109 Uttam Kumaran: we have a lot of success there as well.
89 00:09:25.890 ⇒ 00:09:28.510 Brian Pei: What was the name of those product analytics, tools you just mentioned.
90 00:09:28.510 ⇒ 00:09:29.750 Uttam Kumaran: Amplitude.
91 00:09:29.750 ⇒ 00:09:30.500 Brian Pei: Mixpan.
92 00:09:30.500 ⇒ 00:09:36.370 Uttam Kumaran: And Hannah. Maybe we can get Brian our tool. Doc.
93 00:09:37.770 ⇒ 00:09:39.200 Hannah Wang: The link to that. Yeah.
94 00:09:39.200 ⇒ 00:09:40.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, for.
95 00:09:40.250 ⇒ 00:09:41.549 Hannah Wang: Or the comparison.
96 00:09:41.550 ⇒ 00:09:43.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, for product analytics.
97 00:09:43.700 ⇒ 00:09:44.730 Hannah Wang: Okay. Yeah.
98 00:09:46.415 ⇒ 00:09:49.389 Hannah Wang: Well, once you join slack or have.
99 00:09:49.390 ⇒ 00:09:50.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we can start a channel with him.
100 00:09:50.730 ⇒ 00:09:53.810 Hannah Wang: Email. Yeah, I’ll add, I’ll add it to that channel.
101 00:09:53.990 ⇒ 00:09:54.550 Uttam Kumaran: Okay?
102 00:09:55.420 ⇒ 00:09:59.739 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s in the, it’s in the yeah. We can also show Brian the vendor.
103 00:10:00.220 ⇒ 00:10:00.770 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
104 00:10:00.980 ⇒ 00:10:01.520 Uttam Kumaran: Thing, yeah.
105 00:10:02.250 ⇒ 00:10:03.170 Hannah Wang: The yeah,
106 00:10:06.040 ⇒ 00:10:12.890 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, I mean I and I think on our sales side now we we. I’ll kind of show you a little bit. Maybe I’ll show you an example.
107 00:10:13.370 ⇒ 00:10:15.799 Uttam Kumaran: Or Hannah, do you have like kind of the
108 00:10:18.340 ⇒ 00:10:19.930 Uttam Kumaran: What’s it called?
109 00:10:20.368 ⇒ 00:10:28.419 Uttam Kumaran: Like the sample emails that we send. Maybe Brian can just take a look at that, because I think we have like decent email formats. Now, where we attach, like
110 00:10:28.530 ⇒ 00:10:31.510 Uttam Kumaran: our case study, we attach like
111 00:10:31.720 ⇒ 00:10:37.270 Uttam Kumaran: events that we’ve done or videos. So it sort of shows, you know, people that.
112 00:10:38.610 ⇒ 00:10:43.980 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. So here’s like an example of like an email that you can send or text where it’s like.
113 00:10:45.110 ⇒ 00:10:47.290 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, I wanted you to connect with these guys.
114 00:10:47.440 ⇒ 00:10:53.030 Uttam Kumaran: They help companies build data, infrastructure, streamline reporting
115 00:10:53.190 ⇒ 00:10:56.699 Uttam Kumaran: instead of stitching stuff together. Blah! Blah blah! And I sort of like
116 00:10:56.900 ⇒ 00:11:00.874 Uttam Kumaran: inundate them with like a bunch of stuff about us all of those.
117 00:11:02.037 ⇒ 00:11:11.269 Uttam Kumaran: maybe, Hannah, if you want to just send this link in in Zoom. Brian can probably click around. But all of these are they’re all really high quality, like
118 00:11:12.330 ⇒ 00:11:13.820 Uttam Kumaran: artifacts. So.
119 00:11:18.790 ⇒ 00:11:25.880 Brian Pei: I’ll probably need. Well, do you want to grant access to my just personal gmail? For now.
120 00:11:25.880 ⇒ 00:11:27.549 Uttam Kumaran: It’s public. So you should.
121 00:11:27.550 ⇒ 00:11:28.090 Brian Pei: Oh!
122 00:11:28.610 ⇒ 00:11:30.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you can just go to directly this.
123 00:11:35.450 ⇒ 00:11:36.130 Brian Pei: What the hell?
124 00:11:36.960 ⇒ 00:11:37.720 Brian Pei: Okay?
125 00:11:39.150 ⇒ 00:11:40.810 Brian Pei: Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. I see it.
126 00:11:44.100 ⇒ 00:11:47.509 Brian Pei: The email template was in here. Oh, yeah. Referral templates. I see. Okay.
127 00:11:47.510 ⇒ 00:11:48.709 Hannah Wang: Yeah, at the bottom
128 00:11:49.010 ⇒ 00:11:50.860 Brian Pei: Perfect. Okay. Awesome.
129 00:11:52.040 ⇒ 00:11:55.060 Uttam Kumaran: And then I think there’s a text, is there an SMS template below this?
130 00:11:55.350 ⇒ 00:12:00.409 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, you know, now, a lot of business is happening over text. I feel like.
131 00:12:00.510 ⇒ 00:12:02.059 Uttam Kumaran: just good and bad. But
132 00:12:02.830 ⇒ 00:12:06.170 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, like, in case you have just a homie, and you want to text them.
133 00:12:06.420 ⇒ 00:12:11.369 Uttam Kumaran: You can text this, and they click on the Pdf and.
134 00:12:14.030 ⇒ 00:12:15.189 Brian Pei: Huh? Could be chill.
135 00:12:15.860 ⇒ 00:12:18.389 Brian Pei: I’ve never done it over text, but
136 00:12:19.000 ⇒ 00:12:22.890 Brian Pei: I guess if somebody just has their number on a website.
137 00:12:22.890 ⇒ 00:12:25.980 Uttam Kumaran: Well, this is like also like for people in your network, you know.
138 00:12:26.700 ⇒ 00:12:36.270 Brian Pei: Oh, yeah. Okay, sales materials. Okay?
139 00:12:45.200 ⇒ 00:12:54.539 Hannah Wang: Is there anything else that would be helpful for you? From us, in terms of like just reaching out to your network or other people.
140 00:12:59.360 ⇒ 00:13:06.490 Brian Pei: So Utam, how did how do you? How do I deal with like?
141 00:13:07.600 ⇒ 00:13:10.490 Brian Pei: Let’s let’s use tech systems. For as an example.
142 00:13:10.630 ⇒ 00:13:13.170 Brian Pei: like they’ve still reached out to me for jobs.
143 00:13:13.610 ⇒ 00:13:16.539 Brian Pei: and I’m just letting them know like, oh, not right now.
144 00:13:16.540 ⇒ 00:13:21.140 Uttam Kumaran: Same for me. I mean, the problem with tech systems, though, is that they want like.
145 00:13:21.140 ⇒ 00:13:23.629 Brian Pei: Like. We can’t steal their client right.
146 00:13:24.280 ⇒ 00:13:32.490 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I’m actually not so interested in like subcontracting unless it’s like huge.
147 00:13:33.070 ⇒ 00:13:34.360 Uttam Kumaran: But for the most part.
148 00:13:34.360 ⇒ 00:13:39.890 Brian Pei: Figured, cause it wouldn’t. It would be through them and not through you.
149 00:13:40.080 ⇒ 00:13:46.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, for the most part, I don’t know if it’s I tell them, like, Look, I’m not kind of working anymore. But we’re happy to
150 00:13:47.190 ⇒ 00:13:50.780 Uttam Kumaran: subcontract if it’s the right situation, but ideally like
151 00:13:51.250 ⇒ 00:13:55.260 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I feel like they could either bring us in as like they can refer business to us.
152 00:13:55.820 ⇒ 00:13:59.150 Uttam Kumaran: or like I don’t know. I’m not sure it’s gonna work now.
153 00:13:59.150 ⇒ 00:14:05.870 Brian Pei: I don’t know how that would work right, because then you wouldn’t have jurisdiction over.
154 00:14:06.370 ⇒ 00:14:08.380 Uttam Kumaran: Basically your your process.
155 00:14:08.580 ⇒ 00:14:09.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
156 00:14:09.380 ⇒ 00:14:10.890 Brian Pei: Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
157 00:14:11.742 ⇒ 00:14:18.440 Brian Pei: Cause. The other idea was, I have the client names. I could just swoop.
158 00:14:18.630 ⇒ 00:14:23.420 Brian Pei: but I won’t do that that sounds like that might be against the rules, so I won’t do that.
159 00:14:23.420 ⇒ 00:14:28.039 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, I don’t care if you do that, but it’s tough. It’s tough to get those deals, because they may already be selling
160 00:14:28.250 ⇒ 00:14:30.570 Uttam Kumaran: into them some other way.
161 00:14:31.700 ⇒ 00:14:38.430 Uttam Kumaran: But also again, like our our marketing and and sort of sales resources could be yours, too. So if you’re like.
162 00:14:38.560 ⇒ 00:14:46.440 Uttam Kumaran: for example, if you’re like, Hey, I’m I’m well connected in like this industry. Can you go get me every company like this that’s using Snowflake? I can get you that list?
163 00:14:48.260 ⇒ 00:14:51.230 Uttam Kumaran: So you can leverage our like lead research
164 00:14:51.680 ⇒ 00:15:01.020 Uttam Kumaran: sort of workflows as well like, for example, if you’re like, Hey, I have an in into hims, and I kind of want to just hit everybody that’s in that world.
165 00:15:01.220 ⇒ 00:15:09.260 Uttam Kumaran: Give me everybody. Every company that’s like him’s in this sort of revenue range and give me all of their Ctos emails. I can get you that.
166 00:15:10.910 ⇒ 00:15:14.570 Brian Pei: Because you you pay, you pay for that service. Still, I can’t remember the name of it.
167 00:15:14.795 ⇒ 00:15:19.080 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not paying for them, but we we ditch them, and we we just do it all ourselves. Now.
168 00:15:19.500 ⇒ 00:15:20.360 Brian Pei: Okay.
169 00:15:20.360 ⇒ 00:15:22.650 Uttam Kumaran: We so, but like, those are things where.
170 00:15:23.010 ⇒ 00:15:30.219 Uttam Kumaran: if you’re doing manual research, just let me know, because I can connect you with our team, and then we can get you like that list.
171 00:15:30.420 ⇒ 00:15:32.270 Uttam Kumaran: But also again, it’s like.
172 00:15:32.400 ⇒ 00:15:46.110 Uttam Kumaran: it depends sort of how you’re thinking about playing it like, if you’re like, Hey, I’m you want to represent brain forge, and go sell, or if it’s it’s like, Hey, I’m personally connected, or I have people that are personally connected, and I just want an intro. You can make an intro
173 00:15:47.760 ⇒ 00:15:49.139 Brian Pei: I wonder which one would be better.
174 00:15:49.660 ⇒ 00:15:51.970 Brian Pei: I could do either way. I could do.
175 00:15:52.690 ⇒ 00:15:53.550 Uttam Kumaran: I would think that I.
176 00:15:53.550 ⇒ 00:15:54.089 Brian Pei: The person.
177 00:15:54.090 ⇒ 00:15:58.670 Uttam Kumaran: The personal intros are going to be easier because
178 00:15:59.200 ⇒ 00:16:04.419 Uttam Kumaran: cold sales is brutal like it’s just odds are, gonna be a lot lower. So I would exhaust
179 00:16:04.930 ⇒ 00:16:08.439 Uttam Kumaran: anyone who you actually have a personal connection with.
180 00:16:08.870 ⇒ 00:16:13.130 Uttam Kumaran: or can somehow manufacture a personal connection with.
181 00:16:13.290 ⇒ 00:16:15.220 Brian Pei: Before just going cold.
182 00:16:16.550 ⇒ 00:16:22.920 Uttam Kumaran: Additionally, the cold ones. If you sell, you’ll have to.
183 00:16:23.290 ⇒ 00:16:28.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, either you’ll have to join the call or whatever. So
184 00:16:29.000 ⇒ 00:16:35.740 Uttam Kumaran: this is, the risk is higher and the odds are lower. So I think I think exhaust stuff where you know the folks first.st
185 00:16:38.530 ⇒ 00:16:41.860 Brian Pei: And for the people who I know them
186 00:16:42.110 ⇒ 00:16:52.343 Brian Pei: to introduce me to somebody. Have you found success via talking to a CTO or a data person, or a recruiter like who should.
187 00:16:52.770 ⇒ 00:16:54.079 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, typically.
188 00:16:54.250 ⇒ 00:16:55.809 Uttam Kumaran: So we we talk. We talked to like.
189 00:16:55.810 ⇒ 00:16:56.420 Brian Pei: Audio.
190 00:16:57.600 ⇒ 00:17:00.379 Uttam Kumaran: Not really not usually
191 00:17:04.109 ⇒ 00:17:07.279 Brian Pei: What title? What title should I ask for? I guess when.
192 00:17:08.329 ⇒ 00:17:11.749 Brian Pei: We’re looking for. Coo, CEO!
193 00:17:13.599 ⇒ 00:17:14.149 Brian Pei: Okay.
194 00:17:14.150 ⇒ 00:17:17.139 Uttam Kumaran: Head of growth, head of Rev. Ops,
195 00:17:19.319 ⇒ 00:17:23.960 Uttam Kumaran: and I think, Hannah, we have some of these titles somewhere, too, like.
196 00:17:23.960 ⇒ 00:17:25.680 Brian Pei: Kind of marketing. Maybe.
197 00:17:25.680 ⇒ 00:17:29.149 Uttam Kumaran: Marketing head of Product Analytics, head of product.
198 00:17:29.350 ⇒ 00:17:31.440 Brian Pei: Okay, I could do that.
199 00:17:33.270 ⇒ 00:17:37.200 Brian Pei: Yeah, that sounds better than that, like going to.
200 00:17:39.230 ⇒ 00:17:47.319 Brian Pei: I guess, like a recruiter cause in the past. I just I went through recruiters. But now this is this is different. But I can. I can give that a shot.
201 00:17:48.510 ⇒ 00:17:55.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And again, it’s mainly you’re asking, like, Hey, what are you guys doing for data? Right now, are you guys doing anything? Is this a problem. You guys tried anything.
202 00:17:55.950 ⇒ 00:18:00.110 Uttam Kumaran: Well, like, I’m I’m connected with this firm, or, like my buddy runs this data company.
203 00:18:00.290 ⇒ 00:18:03.239 Uttam Kumaran: They do. They do sick work happy to make an intro.
204 00:18:03.240 ⇒ 00:18:05.530 Brian Pei: Oh, do you ever did you ever talk to a lean.
205 00:18:06.660 ⇒ 00:18:10.140 Uttam Kumaran: No, I didn’t, not if she messaged us. Should I call you.
206 00:18:10.370 ⇒ 00:18:14.050 Brian Pei: No, this was like a year ago. Remember, she was like, What are you guys doing.
207 00:18:14.050 ⇒ 00:18:15.019 Uttam Kumaran: 12 months ago.
208 00:18:15.020 ⇒ 00:18:20.769 Brian Pei: Or maybe maybe I’m drunk, but I just remember she’s at a really small company, and she was like, I need help. And then
209 00:18:21.270 ⇒ 00:18:22.669 Brian Pei: it kind of like died.
210 00:18:24.180 ⇒ 00:18:28.950 Brian Pei: But but I just remember she was she at a small company.
211 00:18:29.220 ⇒ 00:18:31.829 Brian Pei: She’s got a good position there.
212 00:18:32.440 ⇒ 00:18:34.929 Brian Pei: and she’s smart, so I trust
213 00:18:35.100 ⇒ 00:18:37.330 Brian Pei: that she’s at a good spot.
214 00:18:40.170 ⇒ 00:18:41.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I can ask her.
215 00:18:42.690 ⇒ 00:18:43.699 Brian Pei: Yeah. Why not?
216 00:18:44.580 ⇒ 00:18:46.980 Uttam Kumaran: Or you could ask her, and if it works you could get the money.
217 00:18:46.980 ⇒ 00:18:51.220 Hannah Wang: Oh, yeah, give me money. I’ll ask her. Don’t! Don’t! Don’t talk to her. I got this.
218 00:18:51.220 ⇒ 00:18:56.679 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, she said. Anyone knows a senior staff engineer looking for a role. She’s at addition.
219 00:18:57.080 ⇒ 00:18:58.390 Brian Pei: Addition.
220 00:18:59.130 ⇒ 00:19:01.719 Brian Pei: Never heard of it. Addition startup
221 00:19:03.760 ⇒ 00:19:07.080 Brian Pei: probably shouldn’t be wasting my time with this. But okay, whatever, I’ll just.
222 00:19:07.080 ⇒ 00:19:08.270 Uttam Kumaran: Addition, wealth.
223 00:19:09.711 ⇒ 00:19:11.760 Brian Pei: How do you feel about wealth?
224 00:19:11.870 ⇒ 00:19:13.449 Brian Pei: Finance straight.
225 00:19:13.450 ⇒ 00:19:14.870 Uttam Kumaran: I feel great.
226 00:19:15.646 ⇒ 00:19:16.660 Brian Pei: Okay, cool.
227 00:19:17.860 ⇒ 00:19:20.470 Brian Pei: Okay, let’s see.
228 00:19:21.230 ⇒ 00:19:26.989 Brian Pei: Okay. So I have a list of my
229 00:19:27.280 ⇒ 00:19:30.799 Brian Pei: connections. I’ll have a template. Well.
230 00:19:30.800 ⇒ 00:19:37.179 Uttam Kumaran: Another thing you could do is like, Look if you’re like, hey, can someone go through my Linkedin connections? Or
231 00:19:37.430 ⇒ 00:19:43.179 Uttam Kumaran: because people on our team can go do that for you. I guess this is where I would just think about like what you would need.
232 00:19:44.640 ⇒ 00:19:48.480 Brian Pei: But whatever happens, have like an I would have an idea in my head of like
233 00:19:48.790 ⇒ 00:19:54.439 Brian Pei: how likely somebody is to actually reply, based on how nice I was to them in the past. So.
234 00:19:54.990 ⇒ 00:19:55.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, of course.
235 00:19:55.500 ⇒ 00:19:56.770 Brian Pei: I can start there.
236 00:19:57.470 ⇒ 00:20:06.349 Uttam Kumaran: But do you want to get like? Do you need anything else from us like, can I give you more like our cause? Cause? Also, it’s helpful sometimes to refer to
237 00:20:06.480 ⇒ 00:20:09.700 Uttam Kumaran: refer to a client that we’ve worked on that may be similar to those
238 00:20:09.850 ⇒ 00:20:13.880 Uttam Kumaran: if you need. I mean you. You have these slides and stuff, but we can give you like.
239 00:20:13.880 ⇒ 00:20:14.320 Brian Pei: No.
240 00:20:14.320 ⇒ 00:20:14.780 Uttam Kumaran: Sizing.
241 00:20:14.780 ⇒ 00:20:19.499 Brian Pei: Like a these. The the slides and templates are helpful.
242 00:20:19.670 ⇒ 00:20:26.999 Brian Pei: I don’t know what kind of help to ask for until I like, I’m gonna make a Google sheet and put my brain down first.st
243 00:20:29.840 ⇒ 00:20:33.490 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And then if if anyone asked for pricing stuff, I would say.
244 00:20:34.010 ⇒ 00:20:46.330 Uttam Kumaran: the probably the biggest thing you can say is like, Look if you guys, if you don’t know, I mean one, I try to explain to people like how much this stuff costs. Right? So I talk about like an average data engineer in the Us. Is like 150 grand
245 00:20:46.440 ⇒ 00:20:47.860 Uttam Kumaran: if they’re half decent.
246 00:20:49.150 ⇒ 00:20:50.709 Uttam Kumaran: And they’ve probably only done
247 00:20:50.840 ⇒ 00:20:52.970 Uttam Kumaran: the stuff you’re asking to do like twice
248 00:20:53.630 ⇒ 00:20:59.920 Uttam Kumaran: and that’s like one person on a full team. You need to hire so quickly.
249 00:21:00.260 ⇒ 00:21:05.300 Uttam Kumaran: These can be a half a million dollar cost centers where you don’t get the benefit, for like 3 to 6 months.
250 00:21:06.140 ⇒ 00:21:10.000 Uttam Kumaran: Right. So that’s who I show is like our who we’re competing against.
251 00:21:11.500 ⇒ 00:21:18.040 Uttam Kumaran: So I say, like, Look, we start really quick. We’ve done this so many times with great partnerships to get you great discounts.
252 00:21:18.150 ⇒ 00:21:20.799 Uttam Kumaran: We’re like a partner. We’re not like a dev shop.
253 00:21:21.050 ⇒ 00:21:23.300 Uttam Kumaran: and I really harp on that, because people.
254 00:21:23.750 ⇒ 00:21:29.180 Uttam Kumaran: either they they racially profile me, or they just like work with consultants too much like
255 00:21:29.570 ⇒ 00:21:43.920 Uttam Kumaran: dev shops are like, you know, I’m like, we’re not a dev shop where we’re like a data team or like your data team. Basically. So I try to harp on that because I don’t think many people want another consult, want another like contractor they want like a partner, you know. So.
256 00:21:44.170 ⇒ 00:21:44.550 Brian Pei: Okay.
257 00:21:45.310 ⇒ 00:21:48.159 Brian Pei: And then you do. You said you do. A 2 week.
258 00:21:48.290 ⇒ 00:21:52.169 Brian Pei: $5,000 requirements gathering. Is that what I remember.
259 00:21:52.170 ⇒ 00:21:56.730 Uttam Kumaran: We typically do like for most of our clients, we start at a 2 week
260 00:21:56.850 ⇒ 00:22:00.769 Uttam Kumaran: 5 k, like proof of concept or like a paid, basically like
261 00:22:01.000 ⇒ 00:22:19.829 Uttam Kumaran: if it if the if the problem is like too wide and it’s like a discovery phase where we meet everybody, we build a roadmap, we build some basic diagrams and documentation of which I have a lot of great examples for you. That we have made. And that way it gets their feet wet a little bit. They know what it’s like to work with us, but it’s not like
262 00:22:20.220 ⇒ 00:22:21.679 Uttam Kumaran: an insane amount of money.
263 00:22:23.070 ⇒ 00:22:29.299 Uttam Kumaran: and we have some structured deliverables as part of that. It’s a great way for clients to sort of get a sense of like who we are and the type of work we do.
264 00:22:29.480 ⇒ 00:22:30.160 Brian Pei: I got you.
265 00:22:30.530 ⇒ 00:22:31.430 Brian Pei: Perfect.
266 00:22:31.430 ⇒ 00:22:42.089 Uttam Kumaran: And we also, we also have a lot of great partnerships. So like we’re partners with amplitude, with Mixpanel, like, I mean, of course, we are snowflake. Dbt, but like they don’t really care about us.
267 00:22:44.090 ⇒ 00:22:45.899 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna start doing stuff with mother Duck.
268 00:22:46.330 ⇒ 00:22:50.139 Uttam Kumaran: because I don’t know they do duck. dB.
269 00:22:52.125 ⇒ 00:22:53.769 Brian Pei: Okay, okay, that’s fine.
270 00:22:53.770 ⇒ 00:22:55.509 Uttam Kumaran: Started doing stuff with them.
271 00:22:57.850 ⇒ 00:23:01.390 Uttam Kumaran: And then like polyatomic. So like again, if you if you send people to my Linkedin.
272 00:23:01.580 ⇒ 00:23:04.579 Uttam Kumaran: we’re spamming on there. So they’re gonna realize that we’re legit.
273 00:23:05.570 ⇒ 00:23:16.250 Brian Pei: It’s Ops linked. And okay, how do you feel about law firms?
274 00:23:16.900 ⇒ 00:23:22.004 Uttam Kumaran: We have worked with some law firms and have have had some leads into law firms, so that’s great, too.
275 00:23:22.480 ⇒ 00:23:27.029 Uttam Kumaran: Again, the law firms may be less interested in data, though they may be more interested in AI use cases.
276 00:23:27.540 ⇒ 00:23:34.590 Brian Pei: Potentially. I mean any reason for me to use Maggie as a money resource. I will use.
277 00:23:34.770 ⇒ 00:23:37.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I can. I mean, we’ve talked to several. And
278 00:23:38.330 ⇒ 00:23:42.869 Uttam Kumaran: you should just simple, ask is just like, what are you guys doing for AI stuff like, Do you guys have a partner?
279 00:23:46.460 ⇒ 00:23:51.399 Uttam Kumaran: And at this moment I’m more interested in just hopping on the phone like I’m less interested in, like.
280 00:23:52.030 ⇒ 00:23:54.590 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, don’t connect with me like kind of like
281 00:23:56.260 ⇒ 00:23:59.960 Uttam Kumaran: bomb startup people with no money but
282 00:24:00.270 ⇒ 00:24:01.969 Uttam Kumaran: also like I’m not, I don’t.
283 00:24:02.350 ⇒ 00:24:05.940 Uttam Kumaran: You can just sort of get me into calls and like, or and you can join me, and
284 00:24:06.740 ⇒ 00:24:09.429 Uttam Kumaran: if we can, we can figure it out from there. I’m not like
285 00:24:09.780 ⇒ 00:24:14.179 Uttam Kumaran: to like, Hey, qualify every lead and make sure they have budget before calling me it. Just
286 00:24:14.730 ⇒ 00:24:19.900 Uttam Kumaran: some people really have like no money, and they just actually just like extract value from me on a call. And I’m like this is just giving.
287 00:24:21.200 ⇒ 00:24:28.319 Brian Pei: I don’t think I know anyone who’s like at a like a 4 person startup that has no money. So I I think that’s
288 00:24:28.630 ⇒ 00:24:29.600 Brian Pei: fine.
289 00:24:30.260 ⇒ 00:24:34.160 Brian Pei: I think that’s rare nowadays, although I don’t know. I
290 00:24:34.660 ⇒ 00:24:37.629 Brian Pei: you’ve you’ve been in. You’ve been in the trenches for 3 years.
291 00:24:37.630 ⇒ 00:24:41.960 Uttam Kumaran: Same, it’s the same dude. It’s all these who have no money, and then they want tons of stuff, and
292 00:24:42.420 ⇒ 00:24:45.039 Uttam Kumaran: they waste your time for like 4 weeks, 5 weeks.
293 00:24:47.070 ⇒ 00:24:48.170 Brian Pei: Okay.
294 00:24:49.480 ⇒ 00:24:51.209 Brian Pei: One more note.
295 00:24:52.560 ⇒ 00:24:54.830 Brian Pei: Okay, cool. So
296 00:24:56.680 ⇒ 00:25:03.819 Brian Pei: yeah, give me? Well, I mean, I guess I can. I’ll give you an update next Monday this whole week is going to be.
297 00:25:04.740 ⇒ 00:25:09.080 Brian Pei: Experiment me experimenting with
298 00:25:10.510 ⇒ 00:25:15.800 Brian Pei: my personal connections 1st to see how things go, and then we’ll we’ll go. We’ll go from there.
299 00:25:17.510 ⇒ 00:25:18.170 Uttam Kumaran: Okay?
300 00:25:19.400 ⇒ 00:25:24.210 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, we’ll start the slack. I think Rico on my team is gonna invite you. And then.
301 00:25:24.620 ⇒ 00:25:33.619 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, again, as you’re talking to people. If you want our help to research, or if you’re like, Hey, I’m talking to these guys. Do we have anything similar to them? Just send there and you’ll get support.
302 00:25:33.620 ⇒ 00:25:40.700 Brian Pei: Yeah, if I actually get a call with via one of my connections with somebody who I haven’t talked with before, and they actually seem
303 00:25:40.920 ⇒ 00:25:43.989 Brian Pei: halfway interested. Then I’ll let you know before
304 00:25:44.450 ⇒ 00:25:48.799 Brian Pei: before that happens. I’m I’m mostly gonna come up with a list and
305 00:25:49.110 ⇒ 00:25:51.719 Brian Pei: reach out to friends and acquaintances. First.st
306 00:25:52.160 ⇒ 00:25:56.430 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah. And then the yeah, sorry. Go ahead.
307 00:25:56.650 ⇒ 00:26:00.930 Hannah Wang: Oh, you’re gonna send over like the agreement thing right? Is that what you’re gonna talk about?
308 00:26:00.930 ⇒ 00:26:07.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, I’m like waiting, the lawyer is. She’s out. So her Co workers
309 00:26:08.180 ⇒ 00:26:10.030 Uttam Kumaran: finishing it up. But yeah, I’m.
310 00:26:10.280 ⇒ 00:26:10.780 Hannah Wang: Okay.
311 00:26:10.780 ⇒ 00:26:12.320 Uttam Kumaran: I literally have the. I just
312 00:26:12.520 ⇒ 00:26:16.020 Uttam Kumaran: asked for a 1 kind of change.
313 00:26:16.464 ⇒ 00:26:21.350 Uttam Kumaran: But otherwise yeah, I’ll have it sent out ideally this week she should get back to me like any moment.
314 00:26:22.583 ⇒ 00:26:25.919 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s just gonna have the commercial structure. And then.
315 00:26:26.480 ⇒ 00:26:30.729 Uttam Kumaran: ideally, I think we’re just gonna go for 10% of like 1st Year Revenue.
316 00:26:31.530 ⇒ 00:26:31.850 Brian Pei: Sweet.
317 00:26:32.870 ⇒ 00:26:36.512 Uttam Kumaran: If you end up making a lot of money, then I will renegotiate it with you.
318 00:26:37.054 ⇒ 00:26:38.310 Brian Pei: What do you mean?
319 00:26:38.572 ⇒ 00:26:46.190 Uttam Kumaran: Well, dude, if you start rolling it in. And I’m like, Okay, well, we’re just giving you what we’re just, but also kind of nice if actually we could.
320 00:26:46.330 ⇒ 00:26:47.919 Brian Pei: I’m good for it. Damn.
321 00:26:49.100 ⇒ 00:26:52.109 Uttam Kumaran: But you you will be our 1st official referral partner. So.
322 00:26:52.730 ⇒ 00:26:56.940 Brian Pei: I will. I won’t let you down, son.
323 00:26:57.270 ⇒ 00:27:02.940 Uttam Kumaran: And if we can help you market yourself in any way, or help you with your own personal data services, you can. Please let me know.
324 00:27:03.390 ⇒ 00:27:07.340 Uttam Kumaran: or or AI. Do you need any AI services for your small business ventures?
325 00:27:09.650 ⇒ 00:27:10.770 Brian Pei: I’m broke.
326 00:27:11.990 ⇒ 00:27:16.569 Brian Pei: My money is pretty tied up, so if you do it for free, sure. Yeah, if you.
327 00:27:16.570 ⇒ 00:27:18.720 Uttam Kumaran: See a nice. I see a nice guitar behind you. I can.
328 00:27:18.720 ⇒ 00:27:19.650 Brian Pei: It’s a homie music.
329 00:27:19.910 ⇒ 00:27:25.029 Brian Pei: Yeah, it’s telecaster. If you need something as leverage, we could talk.
330 00:27:27.180 ⇒ 00:27:28.450 Brian Pei: They’ve got that condo.
331 00:27:30.970 ⇒ 00:27:32.220 Brian Pei: Let’s see.
332 00:27:33.230 ⇒ 00:27:38.960 Uttam Kumaran: But also, if you hey, if you want to come to events with us, or go to events and pitch like we’re doing a bunch of that stuff. So.
333 00:27:39.790 ⇒ 00:27:41.360 Brian Pei: Will you pay for my drinks?
334 00:27:41.620 ⇒ 00:27:42.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
335 00:27:42.560 ⇒ 00:27:43.810 Brian Pei: Okay, interesting.
336 00:27:44.520 ⇒ 00:27:45.339 Uttam Kumaran: I will!
337 00:27:45.830 ⇒ 00:27:47.595 Brian Pei: Will they be in New York?
338 00:27:47.890 ⇒ 00:27:55.119 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I mean, if you want to go to New York events. Yeah, we’re we have a bunch of New York events. You want to go rip them, and I’ll say, for whatever drinks, yeah.
339 00:27:55.750 ⇒ 00:28:00.329 Brian Pei: No, that was a joke, although I’ve I’ve been to New York. Events are so.
340 00:28:00.330 ⇒ 00:28:06.610 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s horrible! This is, it’s not. I’m not. This is all for make money. This is not like, for you won’t get any personal like.
341 00:28:06.960 ⇒ 00:28:08.740 Brian Pei: No, I don’t think I will, but.
342 00:28:10.120 ⇒ 00:28:15.269 Uttam Kumaran: All I’m saying is in case you’re around people that need data. Just remember us. And you know, who knows.
343 00:28:15.270 ⇒ 00:28:16.400 Brian Pei: Yeah, I guess that’s all I needed.
344 00:28:16.400 ⇒ 00:28:21.900 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna get a hey? Who is that? Who are those? Who’s that data company you were talking about? And you’re like, Oh, cool, brave forge. Yeah, here you go.
345 00:28:22.060 ⇒ 00:28:25.440 Uttam Kumaran: and then if it closes, you got it, that’s it.
346 00:28:27.410 ⇒ 00:28:27.820 Brian Pei: Cool.
347 00:28:27.820 ⇒ 00:28:36.010 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like most of what is sales. I’m going to an event right after this, that’s all. I’m just gonna talk sort of shut my brain off and talk for like an hour or 2, and then
348 00:28:37.130 ⇒ 00:28:40.419 Uttam Kumaran: someone will call me back in a few weeks, probably.
349 00:28:40.420 ⇒ 00:28:42.000 Brian Pei: Someone will call me back.
350 00:28:42.590 ⇒ 00:28:45.585 Brian Pei: That’s yeah. I’ll put that hat on
351 00:28:47.300 ⇒ 00:28:49.900 Brian Pei: But yeah, I got. I’m I’m starting.
352 00:28:50.120 ⇒ 00:28:52.790 Brian Pei: Well, I was, gonna say, today, I’m starting tomorrow, so
353 00:28:53.040 ⇒ 00:28:57.730 Brian Pei: I won’t know what questions to ask until I, you know, come into some.
354 00:28:58.140 ⇒ 00:29:06.669 Brian Pei: either roadblocks or hopefully, hopefully, it’s just smooth and easy. And and yeah, you pay me a lot of money, and then you have to renegotiate my contract. Apparently, even though
355 00:29:06.970 ⇒ 00:29:08.520 Brian Pei: we’re friends.
356 00:29:08.710 ⇒ 00:29:13.930 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, this is gonna be great. I mean, I would give you. Yeah, this is gonna be great. It’s actually a good amount of money, if it if.
357 00:29:13.930 ⇒ 00:29:17.559 Brian Pei: I’ll get you work. Yeah, you’re gonna get the other 90% jerk.
358 00:29:21.830 ⇒ 00:29:32.005 Brian Pei: But yeah, email and slack let me know when that’s set up. But I have enough to go off on my own now and then, when I exhaust my connections, then we’ll talk about
359 00:29:32.760 ⇒ 00:29:39.590 Brian Pei: cold emails which, you know I’ve done that, too. It’s it’s it, can. It can all be in phases. I don’t want to overwhelm myself.
360 00:29:40.710 ⇒ 00:29:41.280 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
361 00:29:41.810 ⇒ 00:29:43.630 Brian Pei: Cool, alright.
362 00:29:43.810 ⇒ 00:29:44.839 Brian Pei: Thank you.
363 00:29:44.840 ⇒ 00:29:45.310 Hannah Wang: Soon.
364 00:29:45.310 ⇒ 00:29:46.800 Brian Pei: You both talk to you soon.
365 00:29:47.030 ⇒ 00:29:47.420 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.
366 00:29:47.420 ⇒ 00:29:47.840 Hannah Wang: Okay.