Meeting Title: Uttam <> Miguel - Contextual Demo Date: 2025-06-24 Meeting participants: Miguel de Veyra, Uttam Kumaran
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1 00:07:27.060 ⇒ 00:07:27.860 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! Dude.
2 00:07:32.030 ⇒ 00:07:32.860 Miguel de Veyra: Hey, mate.
3 00:07:34.390 ⇒ 00:07:35.199 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?
4 00:07:36.212 ⇒ 00:07:41.380 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, pretty good. Yeah. But they didn’t expect the progress on that thing.
5 00:07:42.800 ⇒ 00:07:47.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, nice dude. I feel like it’s functionality wise. It’s really good.
6 00:07:47.730 ⇒ 00:07:48.190 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, I.
7 00:07:48.190 ⇒ 00:07:52.299 Uttam Kumaran: I think. Yeah, I mean, once we get the security up and
8 00:07:52.650 ⇒ 00:07:55.829 Uttam Kumaran: couple more things, it’ll be easy for everyone else to develop on it, too.
9 00:07:56.120 ⇒ 00:08:07.609 Miguel de Veyra: Yes, yes. And then, basically, yeah, I think the only thing I can’t really make dynamic here is like the demo pages and some AI agents. I think those are for specific use cases.
10 00:08:08.310 ⇒ 00:08:08.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
11 00:08:09.320 ⇒ 00:08:13.109 Uttam Kumaran: And then, you know, over time, I think we’ll also start to add, like
12 00:08:13.540 ⇒ 00:08:19.461 Uttam Kumaran: more like documentation. And like, you know, just like different sort of
13 00:08:20.300 ⇒ 00:08:20.760 Miguel de Veyra: Hi!
14 00:08:21.220 ⇒ 00:08:27.039 Uttam Kumaran: Platform stuff that like for, like, it’ll basically be a good way for new people to onboard and like.
15 00:08:27.280 ⇒ 00:08:28.419 Uttam Kumaran: it’ll be nice.
16 00:08:28.720 ⇒ 00:08:29.889 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, like, we have to.
17 00:08:29.890 ⇒ 00:08:34.850 Uttam Kumaran: Impressive. I mean dude. I don’t know another sort of consultancy with anything like this, you know, so.
18 00:08:35.580 ⇒ 00:08:38.234 Miguel de Veyra: Then we can solve that. This thing, too. No.
19 00:08:39.305 ⇒ 00:08:40.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
20 00:08:40.080 ⇒ 00:08:40.720 Miguel de Veyra: Okay, we have.
21 00:08:40.720 ⇒ 00:08:48.139 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, you know. You know frankly, when all my meetings about AI, I’m basically sharing our work, you know.
22 00:08:50.770 ⇒ 00:08:55.950 Uttam Kumaran: I just share my screen. I share all the stuff we do. So it’s actually not that. Far from that, you know.
23 00:08:59.480 ⇒ 00:09:02.000 Uttam Kumaran: How has it been with with Claude Code?
24 00:09:03.220 ⇒ 00:09:04.270 Miguel de Veyra: With what sorry.
25 00:09:04.650 ⇒ 00:09:06.229 Uttam Kumaran: How has it been with clawed code.
26 00:09:06.570 ⇒ 00:09:07.249 Miguel de Veyra: Oh, I use it!
27 00:09:07.250 ⇒ 00:09:07.860 Uttam Kumaran: Sir.
28 00:09:08.060 ⇒ 00:09:14.679 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, I’m using O, 3. Right now. It’s it’s because Claude is like, hyper expensive. I can’t continue to afford that.
29 00:09:14.680 ⇒ 00:09:16.140 Uttam Kumaran: Was it way better.
30 00:09:17.342 ⇒ 00:09:24.580 Miguel de Veyra: For certain stuff like. But then, like Claude, I would say, is.
31 00:09:24.580 ⇒ 00:09:30.159 Uttam Kumaran: I have a feeling they’re gonna make it cheaper in like one or 2 months. So maybe we wait until then.
32 00:09:30.160 ⇒ 00:09:37.679 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, Claude, like Claude understands you the 1st the 1st time in O 3. Max, you just have to explain a bit more.
33 00:09:38.120 ⇒ 00:09:38.700 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
34 00:09:38.700 ⇒ 00:09:40.040 Miguel de Veyra: But you know, like
35 00:09:40.250 ⇒ 00:09:45.670 Miguel de Veyra: it’s fine, it’s fine. If they do the same thing. You just have to explain a lot more.
36 00:09:46.150 ⇒ 00:09:47.090 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
37 00:09:47.370 ⇒ 00:09:55.290 Miguel de Veyra: But I guess that’s the that’s the advantage of being, you know, full stack, and also in AI field.
38 00:09:56.820 ⇒ 00:10:03.220 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, dude, this is the advantage. This is like, I know this is like what you wanted to work on for a while. So like, I wanna make sure that you
39 00:10:03.390 ⇒ 00:10:15.640 Uttam Kumaran: can lead this because you’re gonna enable everyone else on the team to start developing this stuff and give them ideas on what to what they want. So like even today, Kyle requested a feature about like fast forwarding through meetings and stuff like that. So.
40 00:10:15.880 ⇒ 00:10:17.590 Miguel de Veyra: Yes, yep.
41 00:10:18.750 ⇒ 00:10:21.730 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. So yeah, I wanted to talk about like developing a.
42 00:10:21.730 ⇒ 00:10:22.460 Miguel de Veyra: Controlled.
43 00:10:22.460 ⇒ 00:10:24.799 Uttam Kumaran: A law focused contextual demo.
44 00:10:26.310 ⇒ 00:10:32.800 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe like, I mean, I think the most basic demo is just like reading from contracts.
45 00:10:34.500 ⇒ 00:10:38.789 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think maybe that’s something really basic we can start with.
46 00:10:38.960 ⇒ 00:10:43.970 Uttam Kumaran: which is just like a rag over Pdfs. So I think from.
47 00:10:43.970 ⇒ 00:10:44.480 Miguel de Veyra: Absolutely.
48 00:10:44.480 ⇒ 00:10:45.860 Uttam Kumaran: The, yeah.
49 00:10:46.370 ⇒ 00:10:55.330 Miguel de Veyra: Honestly, my thought process was something like Hpi. Cause I think they were the cause. Our use case with them was technically low, right?
50 00:10:55.870 ⇒ 00:10:56.719 Miguel de Veyra: But I guess.
51 00:10:56.720 ⇒ 00:10:59.380 Uttam Kumaran: This is where I want to sort of do a go. One more
52 00:10:59.670 ⇒ 00:11:01.730 Uttam Kumaran: a little bit further is like.
53 00:11:02.040 ⇒ 00:11:10.929 Uttam Kumaran: part of this is not just like the chat experience. We need to do a lot more of like. Here are the documents. Here are the fake documents that this has access to.
54 00:11:11.180 ⇒ 00:11:21.339 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s like, basically the architecture of how we built it. And then here’s a demo you can try. And so that’s like what the that want the demo experience to be more of
55 00:11:21.490 ⇒ 00:11:25.399 Uttam Kumaran: that way. People really understand the complexity of like what we’re doing.
56 00:11:27.940 ⇒ 00:11:31.770 Uttam Kumaran: So I mean, I think the 1st place to start is just to like.
57 00:11:32.230 ⇒ 00:11:37.409 Uttam Kumaran: can we generate maybe 5 or 6 fake contract Pdfs.
58 00:11:37.780 ⇒ 00:11:43.290 Uttam Kumaran: And like, I can help you do that like if you want me to, or you can just basically ask, Chat Gpt.
59 00:11:43.430 ⇒ 00:11:46.910 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna make sure that they’re they’re in. They’re they come out of Pdf.
60 00:11:47.170 ⇒ 00:11:51.209 Miguel de Veyra: And just have, like 10 or 20 of them like. If you want to take a note, I would say.
61 00:11:51.857 ⇒ 00:11:53.822 Uttam Kumaran: If you want to focus on
62 00:11:54.370 ⇒ 00:12:01.832 Uttam Kumaran: let’s just say corporate related documents. My 1st ask would be, ask chat gpt
63 00:12:02.760 ⇒ 00:12:09.280 Uttam Kumaran: for, like a list of common corporate lawyer documents related to corporate law
64 00:12:09.640 ⇒ 00:12:17.360 Uttam Kumaran: have it generate 5 or 10 of those like fake ones like for a fake business and then
65 00:12:17.660 ⇒ 00:12:31.079 Uttam Kumaran: like, start to use that in contextual, I think second piece is, it would be great for you to sort of start to own a little bit of the developer relationship with contextual. So as you have questions just ping them directly in the channel.
66 00:12:31.310 ⇒ 00:12:34.049 Uttam Kumaran: because I want to share with them the stuff we’re trying to do.
67 00:12:34.580 ⇒ 00:12:35.000 Miguel de Veyra: Okay.
68 00:12:35.315 ⇒ 00:12:41.950 Uttam Kumaran: And then for the ui. I think this is where I’m not sure what I I would. I would honestly ask
69 00:12:42.070 ⇒ 00:12:45.790 Uttam Kumaran: Hannah to see if or if she can develop like a
70 00:12:45.980 ⇒ 00:12:50.079 Uttam Kumaran: a standard chat. Bot ui, because right now you’re just using the n 8 n.
71 00:12:50.400 ⇒ 00:12:52.000 Uttam Kumaran: Out of the box right.
72 00:12:54.065 ⇒ 00:12:56.500 Miguel de Veyra: What do you mean? Ui in.
73 00:12:56.500 ⇒ 00:12:58.797 Uttam Kumaran: Literally the ui for the chat
74 00:13:00.420 ⇒ 00:13:02.829 Miguel de Veyra: In in our ui. No, that’s already decoded.
75 00:13:03.550 ⇒ 00:13:07.939 Uttam Kumaran: But is that just like a what? What is that? Just like a basic react chat experience.
76 00:13:09.233 ⇒ 00:13:13.260 Miguel de Veyra: Basically. That’s the what do you call this?
77 00:13:13.580 ⇒ 00:13:22.730 Miguel de Veyra: I just told the agent to, hey, we don’t wanna over design this first.st Let’s just get something done. But yeah, we could probably ask Hannah to have something that’s, you know.
78 00:13:22.910 ⇒ 00:13:23.430 Miguel de Veyra: on.
79 00:13:23.430 ⇒ 00:13:30.429 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I guess I my ask would be, however, develop a branded chat experience
80 00:13:30.570 ⇒ 00:13:38.379 Uttam Kumaran: that has all of the core features that we always want in chat experiences, right? Which are suggestions
81 00:13:39.510 ⇒ 00:13:43.489 Uttam Kumaran: which is the ability to scroll.
82 00:13:47.640 ⇒ 00:13:50.219 Uttam Kumaran: You know, which is like
83 00:13:53.450 ⇒ 00:14:02.059 Uttam Kumaran: like the username session. So that would that way any sort of chat experience we develop. You can just use it
84 00:14:02.700 ⇒ 00:14:10.789 Uttam Kumaran: just same front end code for it and generate the chat like the Chatbot ui kit.
85 00:14:11.678 ⇒ 00:14:17.240 Miguel de Veyra: Yes, yes, actually, we’re we’re we’re kind of doing that like we didn’t really, you know, focus on the design.
86 00:14:17.240 ⇒ 00:14:20.500 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of you’re kind of doing it, but you didn’t carve it. It’s not carved out.
87 00:14:20.500 ⇒ 00:14:21.260 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s not.
88 00:14:21.260 ⇒ 00:14:26.255 Uttam Kumaran: Of like. So I would honestly, what I would do is
89 00:14:27.650 ⇒ 00:14:43.960 Uttam Kumaran: You can send this message or wait for this recording and then create a ticket, but, like I would, I would rather ask her to literally design a universal Chatbot Kit that way. Anytime. You want to do suggestions. All that it’s designed.
90 00:14:44.320 ⇒ 00:14:45.110 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah.
91 00:14:51.010 ⇒ 00:15:01.510 Uttam Kumaran: We can constantly evolve that because we want, we want our really, really solid foundation. And so for the demos and for pool parts, right? So it’s like, it’s a good investment.
92 00:15:02.070 ⇒ 00:15:06.450 Miguel de Veyra: Yes, yes, okay, yeah. I’ll I’ll create like a ticket for that.
93 00:15:09.060 ⇒ 00:15:10.429 Uttam Kumaran: And then.
94 00:15:10.940 ⇒ 00:15:19.259 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I mean the main, I would say, the main thing that we want to try to show with contextual is its ability to like? Do the bounding boxes.
95 00:15:20.862 ⇒ 00:15:22.880 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, that one. Okay, yeah. That makes sense.
96 00:15:22.880 ⇒ 00:15:28.349 Uttam Kumaran: That’s a really great visual demo. The second thing I wanted to
97 00:15:28.470 ⇒ 00:15:30.811 Uttam Kumaran: be able to do is
98 00:15:31.740 ⇒ 00:15:37.190 Uttam Kumaran: like, have the references like pull up. Hey! This is coming from this document. It’s coming from this document.
99 00:15:38.180 ⇒ 00:15:38.915 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah.
100 00:15:40.110 ⇒ 00:15:50.350 Uttam Kumaran: And then have a couple examples of like, easy to complicated things. You can ask it. So like, for example, I want to. I want to be able to show that we can parse tables.
101 00:15:52.135 ⇒ 00:15:52.700 Miguel de Veyra: Okay.
102 00:15:53.550 ⇒ 00:15:58.199 Uttam Kumaran: Right. So I wanna be able to show that that is like something out of the box that we can do
103 00:16:00.087 ⇒ 00:16:11.749 Uttam Kumaran: and then don’t worry about like sort of like, I would say, start with gut functionality. And then what what we’re gonna do is like we’ll make sure on the landing page for the demo. There’s all sorts of like explainers like
104 00:16:12.080 ⇒ 00:16:16.669 Uttam Kumaran: explainers on the technology we’re using on how we hooked it up.
105 00:16:16.850 ⇒ 00:16:21.619 Uttam Kumaran: how to use this like we’ll use copy to do that. But the demo needs to look.
106 00:16:22.100 ⇒ 00:16:24.190 Uttam Kumaran: you know, of course, pretty sharp, so.
107 00:16:24.190 ⇒ 00:16:24.829 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, of course.
108 00:16:24.830 ⇒ 00:16:30.340 Uttam Kumaran: And then I also, you know, I want to find a way for us when we develop it for contextual to help promote it as well.
109 00:16:31.533 ⇒ 00:16:37.900 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, okay, yeah, I I’m gonna start exploring their Api because I haven’t really, you know.
110 00:16:37.900 ⇒ 00:16:38.409 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
111 00:16:38.410 ⇒ 00:16:39.249 Miguel de Veyra: Deep into it.
112 00:16:39.540 ⇒ 00:16:40.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
113 00:16:41.270 ⇒ 00:16:44.030 Uttam Kumaran: But I think this is the 1st time we we actually
114 00:16:44.290 ⇒ 00:16:47.600 Uttam Kumaran: add some at a moment in time for you to actually look at it. So.
115 00:16:47.790 ⇒ 00:16:53.060 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, like, while pool parts is down. And the but yeah, the other thing.
116 00:16:53.060 ⇒ 00:16:58.760 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing I think, for you to note, and this is where, like I haven’t taken a look is, if you can explain to me sort of what the
117 00:16:59.020 ⇒ 00:17:01.620 Uttam Kumaran: pricing is like. I know, they just changed it.
118 00:17:01.840 ⇒ 00:17:07.510 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s it’s like they they’re now pricing, based on Api call, yeah.
119 00:17:07.660 ⇒ 00:17:12.689 Uttam Kumaran: So if you can like, once you’re playing around with it, I think we have a bunch of free credits, I would make sure.
120 00:17:12.869 ⇒ 00:17:17.310 Uttam Kumaran: And then, if you can sort of just tell like give me like an English explanation of like.
121 00:17:17.864 ⇒ 00:17:22.309 Miguel de Veyra: How much does this cost? Because some of our clients may be able to afford it? Some may not.
122 00:17:24.251 ⇒ 00:17:26.849 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, it’s 0 point 5 per qad.
123 00:17:28.069 ⇒ 00:17:29.629 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess, like, yeah, I guess.
124 00:17:31.679 ⇒ 00:17:36.789 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess like we, you’d have to. Once you build it, you have to tell me like sort of how many queries are getting sent.
125 00:17:37.119 ⇒ 00:17:38.309 Uttam Kumaran: and then.
126 00:17:39.240 ⇒ 00:17:39.890 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, okay, perfect.
127 00:17:39.890 ⇒ 00:17:52.490 Uttam Kumaran: Question. It’s like certain sense. So like, basically, I want to be able to say, cool, it’s a thousand dollars a month. And you get X amount like of questions. And that way I can explain to clients. Because if I say that per query, there’s no way they’re gonna get it.
128 00:17:52.870 ⇒ 00:17:56.729 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, okay, I just checked their page right now, there’s 2.
129 00:17:57.330 ⇒ 00:18:10.919 Miguel de Veyra: Oh, there’s 2 like on the on demand pricing. Basically, it’s 0 point 5 approximately per query, and then it’s almost $50 per a thousand pages for the document. Ingestion.
130 00:18:12.910 ⇒ 00:18:14.599 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s not bad.
131 00:18:14.600 ⇒ 00:18:23.160 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, it’s not bad, definitely, but I think that I think something I wouldn’t worry. I’m not sure if you agree initially, is like a time.
132 00:18:24.940 ⇒ 00:18:25.980 Uttam Kumaran: What do you mean by time?
133 00:18:25.980 ⇒ 00:18:26.350 Miguel de Veyra: The response.
134 00:18:26.350 ⇒ 00:18:31.160 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay, yeah, this is where, like, I’m gonna stuff to see what your demo is like, you know.
135 00:18:31.160 ⇒ 00:18:32.249 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
136 00:18:32.500 ⇒ 00:18:33.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
137 00:18:33.570 ⇒ 00:18:37.550 Uttam Kumaran: and we’ll have a couple of use cases that take time. But yeah, I know it’s gonna take some time.
138 00:18:37.550 ⇒ 00:18:45.959 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, cause. That’s usually how I develop. Right? I want to get the functionality 1st and then the design and then the optimizations and then security.
139 00:18:52.310 ⇒ 00:18:52.720 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
140 00:18:53.260 ⇒ 00:19:01.990 Miguel de Veyra: But yeah, I’ll just finish up the stuff for this dashboard, and then I’ll have to coordinate. And then I’ll start with this contextual stuff.
141 00:19:02.250 ⇒ 00:19:06.229 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, perfect. I would take the Zoom Meeting and then use it to make tickets.
142 00:19:06.380 ⇒ 00:19:08.230 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, definitely, like, I would.
143 00:19:08.230 ⇒ 00:19:13.450 Uttam Kumaran: Break down the contextual demo ticket into, like the 4 or 5 based on this meeting.
144 00:19:13.450 ⇒ 00:19:18.040 Miguel de Veyra: Yep, yep, definitely and then I have a question. By the way.
145 00:19:18.250 ⇒ 00:19:18.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
146 00:19:18.950 ⇒ 00:19:23.809 Miguel de Veyra: Regarding cause. I saw your calendar with Vix, with.
147 00:19:24.620 ⇒ 00:19:25.040 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.
148 00:19:25.040 ⇒ 00:19:29.580 Uttam Kumaran: Vixor, yeah, I’m I’m gonna send a note. I don’t know. I may.
149 00:19:29.580 ⇒ 00:19:30.149 Miguel de Veyra: Can I run it?
150 00:19:31.130 ⇒ 00:19:32.570 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, you want to run it.
151 00:19:32.570 ⇒ 00:19:37.620 Miguel de Veyra: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause I need to coordinate with some stuff, anyways. And I wanna keep Casey on the loop. So you know.
152 00:19:39.170 ⇒ 00:19:46.640 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah. Why don’t you go ahead and run it? I mean, we can start at 10 min early. I’m free right now and then I can at least join for the the beginning. If anyone needs any help for me.
153 00:19:47.350 ⇒ 00:19:48.329 Miguel de Veyra: Okay. Yeah. Sure.
154 00:19:48.330 ⇒ 00:19:54.090 Uttam Kumaran: How do we do that? Can you send a note and just say, like, Hey, can we all hop on just 10 min early, and that way I can jump.
155 00:19:54.370 ⇒ 00:19:55.190 Miguel de Veyra: Okay. Okay.
156 00:19:55.190 ⇒ 00:19:56.169 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not needed.
157 00:19:57.880 ⇒ 00:19:58.540 Miguel de Veyra: Okay, perfect.
158 00:19:59.490 ⇒ 00:20:01.620 Miguel de Veyra: We have calendar.
159 00:20:02.490 ⇒ 00:20:03.360 Miguel de Veyra: I don’t know.
160 00:20:10.410 ⇒ 00:20:12.360 Miguel de Veyra: Should we move on that call already?
161 00:20:12.810 ⇒ 00:20:14.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, we can jump in there.
162 00:20:14.100 ⇒ 00:20:15.619 Miguel de Veyra: Okay. See you there, too. Bye, bye.