Meeting Title: Data Strategy and Optimization Discussion Date: 2025-06-19 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Ben’s Notetaker (Otter.ai), Ben Steinberg
WEBVTT
1 00:01:18.340 ⇒ 00:01:19.050 Ben Steinberg: Yeah.
2 00:01:20.610 ⇒ 00:01:21.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Good morning.
3 00:01:28.300 ⇒ 00:01:31.199 Ben Steinberg: Let’s get my speaker situated. What’s up? Everybody.
4 00:01:32.410 ⇒ 00:01:33.380 Uttam Kumaran: How are ya.
5 00:01:34.830 ⇒ 00:01:40.010 Ben Steinberg: Good busy, just like just so many like disparate tasks of like
6 00:01:41.230 ⇒ 00:01:50.370 Ben Steinberg: interviewing people and being like, could that skill set fit at our company like, yeah, product growth kind of guy, and then like an Ops
7 00:01:50.700 ⇒ 00:02:00.723 Ben Steinberg: growth kind, you know, like, it’s nice that we are hiring. And I’m kinda at a point where it’s like you do this shit for 9 months. And like, you’re like, Yeah, just whoever just bring them on like
8 00:02:04.180 ⇒ 00:02:07.249 Ben Steinberg: Everyone seemed pretty stoked about like this
9 00:02:09.449 ⇒ 00:02:11.410 Ben Steinberg: trial project just like what we’re kicking.
10 00:02:11.410 ⇒ 00:02:15.050 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so was was pretty excited of, just like.
11 00:02:15.170 ⇒ 00:02:20.190 Ben Steinberg: I tried to give the engineer some context, and he was just like, I’m good with it. And I was like, Okay, cool.
12 00:02:20.380 ⇒ 00:02:20.909 Ben Steinberg: I think
13 00:02:20.910 ⇒ 00:02:26.910 Ben Steinberg: we’re a little like just the way we’re approaching this like game thing is, they’re building like 3 prototypes.
14 00:02:27.190 ⇒ 00:02:30.869 Ben Steinberg: And I think that’s just a pretty like big task to take on.
15 00:02:30.870 ⇒ 00:02:31.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
16 00:02:31.400 ⇒ 00:02:44.949 Ben Steinberg: Of like, yeah, let’s build 3 games at once instead of one, and just trying to like, do like some light coding, I guess, for them. But yeah, they were. They were pretty stoked for it, and I kind of positioned it of like guys. We’re gonna if you want me to spend a couple of 100 k. Over the next few months like
17 00:02:45.070 ⇒ 00:02:48.715 Ben Steinberg: it’d be pretty crazy to not have some data.
18 00:02:50.890 ⇒ 00:02:54.604 Ben Steinberg: I’m just trying to think of like the best way to go through this
19 00:02:54.870 ⇒ 00:03:08.219 Uttam Kumaran: I think. Just drive right in for me. There’s a couple of things I want to hear one I want to know. I want to hear what the problems are, whether it seems like you have let me just like kind of give you what I I feel is happening. One.
20 00:03:08.420 ⇒ 00:03:13.180 Uttam Kumaran: You probably have a lot of like, I need to get this data into the spreadsheet for me to do the analysis
21 00:03:13.450 ⇒ 00:03:20.389 Uttam Kumaran: right. There’s probably that piece second piece seems like we need to agree on the definitions of these metrics.
22 00:03:21.130 ⇒ 00:03:27.419 Uttam Kumaran: There’s probably also a a piece around like, maybe there’s 1 more like kind of core
23 00:03:27.610 ⇒ 00:03:41.540 Uttam Kumaran: problem. I also want to talk about like what this unlocks for you like. If you’re able to get those things working, what are the things that in like the short medium long term you think like.
24 00:03:41.760 ⇒ 00:03:44.819 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s settled like we could accomplish these.
25 00:03:45.700 ⇒ 00:03:48.799 Uttam Kumaran: and then I’ll have a couple of questions along the way, so
26 00:03:49.080 ⇒ 00:03:55.900 Uttam Kumaran: like I can walk. I can. I can go through us like a spreadsheet if you want to share that, or you, you can walk through it.
27 00:03:55.900 ⇒ 00:04:04.725 Ben Steinberg: No, I mean honestly, those items that you flagged. I kind of think like double clicking into each would be good. I have, and then I also have a doc.
28 00:04:05.160 ⇒ 00:04:05.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
29 00:04:05.930 ⇒ 00:04:07.559 Ben Steinberg: What was the 1st one?
30 00:04:07.800 ⇒ 00:04:11.180 Uttam Kumaran: The 1st one was getting data into the spreadsheet.
31 00:04:12.500 ⇒ 00:04:15.415 Ben Steinberg: Yes, let me share my screen a bit.
32 00:04:19.880 ⇒ 00:04:22.163 Ben Steinberg: Chinese zoom in a minute.
33 00:04:30.000 ⇒ 00:04:32.160 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, great, awesome.
34 00:04:32.160 ⇒ 00:04:40.839 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I I did like, put something together. What? What I’ll say is like in terms of this is what Greg was using. Basically, was this.
35 00:04:41.200 ⇒ 00:04:41.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
36 00:04:41.720 ⇒ 00:04:44.351 Ben Steinberg: I’m sure I’m sharing you on this stuff.
37 00:04:44.910 ⇒ 00:04:49.000 Ben Steinberg: Should we make brain forge at Fan Stake? Or should we kind of share? We’ve done a brain.
38 00:04:49.000 ⇒ 00:04:51.860 Uttam Kumaran: Share with me directly, and we can do that later.
39 00:04:51.860 ⇒ 00:04:52.890 Ben Steinberg: There we are cool.
40 00:04:58.500 ⇒ 00:05:01.739 Ben Steinberg: so this is what Greg was using. Basically.
41 00:05:01.930 ⇒ 00:05:05.499 Ben Steinberg: And the marketing spend
42 00:05:05.830 ⇒ 00:05:12.920 Ben Steinberg: is all manual. Input. Everything in green is all a manual input, and then the rest are equations. Actually, this is.
43 00:05:12.920 ⇒ 00:05:13.340 Uttam Kumaran: Test.
44 00:05:13.340 ⇒ 00:05:16.594 Ben Steinberg: Manual input. I just didn’t want to fuck with his one
45 00:05:17.100 ⇒ 00:05:19.879 Ben Steinberg: like, I put the source of of them.
46 00:05:21.560 ⇒ 00:05:27.740 Ben Steinberg: So like these like this is from quick sites. So just like whatever stakes you know.
47 00:05:28.200 ⇒ 00:05:35.670 Ben Steinberg: you scroll down to whatever chart that I wrote down like. That’s kind of our current process, for this is our investor reporting.
48 00:05:36.810 ⇒ 00:05:37.300 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
49 00:05:37.675 ⇒ 00:05:47.800 Ben Steinberg: Some of them are equations. This one was what we started to talk through a little bit yesterday of. It’s fixed. It’s this assumed coupon conversion rate.
50 00:05:49.300 ⇒ 00:05:49.860 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
51 00:05:49.860 ⇒ 00:06:04.589 Ben Steinberg: And that’s like the free credits, you know, turning into ad spend, because the athlete accepts the deal, you know, depending on the stake. So you know, again, like it’s gonna be. If you said, Hey, what would you put as the assumed coupon conversion rate on referrals? I would say a hundred percent
52 00:06:04.640 ⇒ 00:06:31.739 Ben Steinberg: or not, maybe not a hundred percent on players from this channel, like we have a channel that I’ll I would call player direct that we were putting the syntax in from player direct meaning. I found these players through an agent, and I’m like Dude. I’m giving these guys credit like, have them rip it with friends and family, that if I was doing a bottom up projection of the coupon conversion rate it wouldn’t be 20% right now. We’re just doing this like top down. So that’s just.
53 00:06:31.740 ⇒ 00:06:32.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
54 00:06:32.060 ⇒ 00:06:41.160 Ben Steinberg: We’re gonna look to solve, because, like, if I could at least do line item projections, and then it would all funnel up to a total rather than just picking a total. It’s so. It’s such a.
55 00:06:41.160 ⇒ 00:06:46.430 Uttam Kumaran: For for months that have finished. You want the actual convert. You want the actual coupon, like
56 00:06:49.229 ⇒ 00:06:51.309 Uttam Kumaran: like basic coupons redeemed.
57 00:06:51.310 ⇒ 00:07:02.234 Ben Steinberg: We? We might. Yeah, we might not know like the actual. I think the projected or the assumed is still gonna be more important, because you could. Just if you, if you stake somebody on week one.
58 00:07:03.050 ⇒ 00:07:19.640 Ben Steinberg: it could just take a while for that person, the athlete, to get DM. And to claim their profile. But it’s just something that like, at least at like a projected level. I know I could type in at a line item level of what it would be. It would still be some assumptions, for sure, but it would definitely be more informed than
59 00:07:20.430 ⇒ 00:07:22.680 Ben Steinberg: and then 20%, because we we have.
60 00:07:22.680 ⇒ 00:07:30.909 Uttam Kumaran: So so in this sheet, these on column B, these are all like, are are these all these like
61 00:07:31.190 ⇒ 00:07:36.040 Uttam Kumaran: all of these, are important, or give me like a priority list. If you were to do so.
62 00:07:37.510 ⇒ 00:07:48.090 Ben Steinberg: So these are in. I would say these are all important, because this is what Greg showing me investors. So until like, so this is, I guess, numbers that
63 00:07:48.360 ⇒ 00:07:55.370 Ben Steinberg: that’s like what I’m basing it on. Could he show investors different numbers and convince them that those for sure like this is just what he.
64 00:07:55.370 ⇒ 00:08:01.850 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I guess I just want to know, like, are all of these as important as as the others? Or is it like
65 00:08:03.100 ⇒ 00:08:06.650 Uttam Kumaran: it looks like. Probably like this is
66 00:08:07.030 ⇒ 00:08:10.770 Uttam Kumaran: support. This is and like this is important.
67 00:08:11.060 ⇒ 00:08:22.697 Ben Steinberg: Yeah. So so that that’s that’s super fair. Actually, because I think, for like my purposes of doing marketing analysis like this is the overall state of the business to an extent from with lens.
68 00:08:23.360 ⇒ 00:08:23.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
69 00:08:23.790 ⇒ 00:08:30.990 Ben Steinberg: There are certain components of this chart that you’re you’re looking at this. You want to know what the user Cac is or like.
70 00:08:30.990 ⇒ 00:08:31.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
71 00:08:31.760 ⇒ 00:08:58.367 Ben Steinberg: Tack is because we might have more people that signed up than actually put money in or even use a free coupon user. Definitely more important, collective dollars. That’s like, if the collective puts in money directly that does has nothing to do with marketing, spend or user cac. Same thing with stake dollars. That would be like revenue, and we don’t have a row as calculation at the bottom, just like, okay. Well, it’s just like superfluous.
72 00:08:59.290 ⇒ 00:09:00.839 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, cool.
73 00:09:00.840 ⇒ 00:09:04.339 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. It’s so, yeah, walk. So walk me through where this is coming from. Yeah.
74 00:09:04.660 ⇒ 00:09:16.690 Ben Steinberg: So marketing spend comes from this, doc that I use, which is kind of messy where this is not like a standardized naming convention that’s
75 00:09:16.880 ⇒ 00:09:19.270 Ben Steinberg: tied to Utm Source or anything. It’s just like.
76 00:09:19.270 ⇒ 00:09:19.960 Uttam Kumaran: For sure, for sure.
77 00:09:19.960 ⇒ 00:09:24.396 Ben Steinberg: Raymond’s terms. Just let me just have a plot of everything that we’ve done.
78 00:09:25.160 ⇒ 00:09:28.314 Ben Steinberg: so that’s what I’m using here.
79 00:09:29.180 ⇒ 00:09:34.009 Ben Steinberg: and this is like kind of the source of truth. Sometimes, you know, it’s it’s not perfect because there’s
80 00:09:34.780 ⇒ 00:09:39.502 Ben Steinberg: just others they travel spend. Sometimes it’s like we round up or whatever. But
81 00:09:40.060 ⇒ 00:09:40.620 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
82 00:09:40.830 ⇒ 00:09:57.109 Ben Steinberg: Anything in yellow is like, not yet confirmed. Well, it actually is. It’s not. I have to update it, but I think I would. I think I would take the information here and get it into a different format that could work sort of spend ingestion, and I could follow any format I’m assuming it would be like.
83 00:09:57.110 ⇒ 00:10:01.740 Uttam Kumaran: And so to fill this out like, walk me through filling this out, are you? You’re just going to the platform
84 00:10:01.850 ⇒ 00:10:04.210 Uttam Kumaran: filtering to the month, and then getting the total.
85 00:10:06.120 ⇒ 00:10:08.290 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I’m literally just like looking here.
86 00:10:09.030 ⇒ 00:10:17.120 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no like when you’re going into this like for each of these like, Are you just like I’m going into either, like.
87 00:10:17.300 ⇒ 00:10:24.360 Uttam Kumaran: for example, let’s let’s talk through. Let’s walk through the easiest one like for Meta. You’re just walk, going to the Facebook platform and just saying, What’s the total by month.
88 00:10:24.640 ⇒ 00:10:25.799 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
89 00:10:26.140 ⇒ 00:10:29.930 Uttam Kumaran: And then for for these, like, where are you tracking?
90 00:10:30.090 ⇒ 00:10:34.220 Uttam Kumaran: Non digital spend like, are you just like keeping receipts somewhere.
91 00:10:34.470 ⇒ 00:10:37.929 Ben Steinberg: Like here is what I’m using as like my source for track.
92 00:10:37.930 ⇒ 00:10:42.810 Uttam Kumaran: But like, is this 2,500 number, it’s okay. Okay. So.
93 00:10:42.810 ⇒ 00:10:45.329 Ben Steinberg: This is from like a person that just invoices.
94 00:10:45.330 ⇒ 00:10:46.210 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
95 00:10:46.210 ⇒ 00:10:47.260 Ben Steinberg: Contractor.
96 00:10:48.140 ⇒ 00:10:53.129 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, cool. So all of I see, I see. So there’s at least one. These are all like
97 00:10:53.490 ⇒ 00:10:56.710 Uttam Kumaran: within a category. Individual channels. Okay, makes sense.
98 00:10:57.000 ⇒ 00:10:59.590 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, it’s not. It’s definitely not perfect.
99 00:10:59.590 ⇒ 00:11:03.509 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, don’t, don’t worry, don’t qualify. I just. I’m just getting the current. I’m just getting the.
100 00:11:03.510 ⇒ 00:11:03.930 Ben Steinberg: Yes.
101 00:11:03.930 ⇒ 00:11:05.970 Uttam Kumaran: State that makes sense, I think.
102 00:11:06.140 ⇒ 00:11:14.039 Uttam Kumaran: Give me give me like, if you can, you quantify like, how much time it’s taking you per month to like or per week to like. Keep this up to date.
103 00:11:14.960 ⇒ 00:11:31.847 Ben Steinberg: Maybe 30 min, because it’s not that important, because I just have to look like maybe once a month, honestly, where I’m just like when I was doing a lot of like the smaller deals. Yeah, no. Still, probably about once a month, whenever Greg was like, Hey, is the marketing spend updated for this month, and I’ll be like, yeah, sure.
104 00:11:32.120 ⇒ 00:11:35.189 Uttam Kumaran: So you’re now you’re old, but you’re not able to see Midmonth spend.
105 00:11:35.490 ⇒ 00:11:44.440 Ben Steinberg: No, we’re also not doing anything right now that’s so variable. But in like this future state.
106 00:11:44.890 ⇒ 00:11:59.699 Ben Steinberg: like right now, we have no marketing live. We’re in the summer. The rosters are kind of set. But let’s say, we’re in August, Facebook spend Will. Definitely, we’re gonna turn that back on and influencer spend. I was tracking through a different sheet.
107 00:12:00.320 ⇒ 00:12:01.590 Ben Steinberg: I think it was this one
108 00:12:02.930 ⇒ 00:12:10.590 Ben Steinberg: where it’s very hacky. But this was just because I didn’t want to include, you know. Look at all these different, like individual fan pages.
109 00:12:11.730 ⇒ 00:12:13.079 Ben Steinberg: I would. But but
110 00:12:13.730 ⇒ 00:12:18.629 Ben Steinberg: and then this, this we will have to take a step back, maybe because I’m gonna I’m gonna jump a little bit. But
111 00:12:18.980 ⇒ 00:12:23.960 Ben Steinberg: this is where the coup, the how the coupon levels are situated.
112 00:12:24.600 ⇒ 00:12:35.880 Ben Steinberg: So I would probably if we were to like. Hey, Ben, take all the information from this sheet and all the information from the Budget sheet and put it in this format with a channel sub channel campaign framework.
113 00:12:36.550 ⇒ 00:12:37.910 Uttam Kumaran: I would probably give me.
114 00:12:37.910 ⇒ 00:12:43.779 Uttam Kumaran: Give me. Let me let me ask you one question. So how are you measuring the performance of these.
115 00:12:47.933 ⇒ 00:12:57.970 Ben Steinberg: Great question. So I’m giving. And it wasn’t perfect historically, because sometimes I was moving so quickly. I had one code for, like Tennessee Volunteers, and I gave them to multiple
116 00:12:58.170 ⇒ 00:13:00.370 Ben Steinberg: fan pages. But
117 00:13:01.090 ⇒ 00:13:11.120 Ben Steinberg: each of these, each of these people I gave a coupon code, and our engineer Alex. He makes the coupon codes. I basically just give him the specs.
118 00:13:11.120 ⇒ 00:13:20.950 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, but like are you? Are you not the performance of the coupon code? But are you looking at the performance of their socials like impressions, and stuff like that.
119 00:13:20.950 ⇒ 00:13:26.069 Ben Steinberg: No, no like looking at. I’m looking at the post.
120 00:13:26.600 ⇒ 00:13:30.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But like, is that information, would that be helpful for you to have? Like.
121 00:13:31.650 ⇒ 00:13:36.700 Uttam Kumaran: literally, the impressions likes bookmark, like, if it’s on X. Then, though, like, that’s what you get right.
122 00:13:37.090 ⇒ 00:13:47.300 Ben Steinberg: I think so. I think it would be like nice to have, but I think what would be need to have is like, how many sign ups did we get for $70? Is it something that we should just.
123 00:13:47.300 ⇒ 00:13:56.410 Uttam Kumaran: And so tell me why that’s not possible today. Like, is it because this spreadsheet with the coupons doesn’t link to that one? And then
124 00:13:57.210 ⇒ 00:14:04.870 Uttam Kumaran: you can’t just be like paid like, here’s what we paid. Here’s the sign ups. Here’s the user cap
125 00:14:05.310 ⇒ 00:14:06.560 Uttam Kumaran: by influencer.
126 00:14:06.690 ⇒ 00:14:15.139 Ben Steinberg: There’s honestly, there’s probably a world where I take everything in here and manually pair it with.
127 00:14:15.380 ⇒ 00:14:18.119 Uttam Kumaran: No no no manual, no manually pay like.
128 00:14:18.120 ⇒ 00:14:23.160 Ben Steinberg: I don’t know really know how I would go about it. There’s probably a way I could figure it out, though.
129 00:14:23.160 ⇒ 00:14:27.379 Uttam Kumaran: For for each of these right is there a record for each of these in that other spreadsheet.
130 00:14:29.610 ⇒ 00:14:32.949 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, when it’s not gonna be perfect like a perfect match. But.
131 00:14:32.950 ⇒ 00:14:40.149 Uttam Kumaran: But at least there for some of them. Maybe there’s a couple of duplicates. But yes, then we can do that for you like one is.
132 00:14:40.430 ⇒ 00:14:43.689 Uttam Kumaran: we should 100% consolidate like
133 00:14:43.830 ⇒ 00:14:47.429 Uttam Kumaran: a bunch of these spreadsheets into one place, or
134 00:14:47.650 ⇒ 00:15:07.859 Uttam Kumaran: I can show you how to like. Pull this into that other spreadsheet, and like, do that like we’ll do as well. I’ll I can help you in like the initial one to 2 weeks on, just like a ton of spreadsheet magic, and then we’ll talk about building something bigger of like getting the coupon codes match to that, and then getting both of those into the other spreadsheet, basically
135 00:15:08.370 ⇒ 00:15:09.850 Uttam Kumaran: into your budget planning.
136 00:15:10.910 ⇒ 00:15:11.740 Ben Steinberg: Okay.
137 00:15:11.890 ⇒ 00:15:22.299 Ben Steinberg: yeah. Cause I think right now, like like this level, I was just kind of comfortable being like, all right, they’re really low, level deals. I’ll just check their coupon code, or I’ll literally just see in.
138 00:15:22.300 ⇒ 00:15:30.449 Uttam Kumaran: But like you want to be able to do like mo more of these. And like dude, how are you looking at the like? How are you looking at the performance like your your eyeballing.
139 00:15:30.886 ⇒ 00:15:32.469 Ben Steinberg: I’m looking at this.
140 00:15:34.050 ⇒ 00:15:37.539 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But like also, you don’t know whether, like.
141 00:15:37.540 ⇒ 00:15:37.989 Ben Steinberg: Which is ugly.
142 00:15:37.990 ⇒ 00:15:44.669 Uttam Kumaran: For example, if one of the like, for example, if the if the ratio of impressions to spend on like this one
143 00:15:44.790 ⇒ 00:15:49.470 Uttam Kumaran: is and is better than this one. Then you should double down here right? Like.
144 00:15:49.950 ⇒ 00:15:55.770 Uttam Kumaran: I guess that’s what I’m saying about bringing in the impression or click data, because
145 00:15:56.000 ⇒ 00:16:00.590 Uttam Kumaran: this made me more efficient. Otherwise you’re just looking at like how much they brought in.
146 00:16:00.590 ⇒ 00:16:01.220 Ben Steinberg: Yes.
147 00:16:01.220 ⇒ 00:16:02.650 Uttam Kumaran: Is like how much you spent.
148 00:16:03.090 ⇒ 00:16:10.979 Ben Steinberg: Well spend versus like it’s kind of like that classic thing of like if you give you, if you like. One person gave me 10,000.
149 00:16:10.980 ⇒ 00:16:15.819 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s what you taught me, which is like you, Max, it out until it just stops.
150 00:16:16.070 ⇒ 00:16:18.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s so. Yeah, so. But.
151 00:16:18.180 ⇒ 00:16:24.399 Ben Steinberg: Oh, I see what you’re saying. You’re thinking about it from I. That’s a good lens of like. How much, how many times can we try and get this.
152 00:16:24.400 ⇒ 00:16:31.059 Uttam Kumaran: If if one of these guys that you paid gets like a 500 impressions, and
153 00:16:31.290 ⇒ 00:16:33.369 Uttam Kumaran: half of them are going and signing up.
154 00:16:33.650 ⇒ 00:16:47.939 Uttam Kumaran: you better triple down on that guy right versus the other person who you? Yeah, you maybe gave 100 K to. And yeah, they drove a bunch. But like this gave a ton of money right? Like you need to find the you need to find the influencer sort of like return.
155 00:16:48.590 ⇒ 00:16:52.110 Uttam Kumaran: and where where to put the where where to put the next dollar.
156 00:16:52.110 ⇒ 00:16:54.909 Ben Steinberg: I I agree with, but it is sort of like
157 00:16:55.850 ⇒ 00:17:06.910 Ben Steinberg: it’s so funny that, like our reference point is fucking flow code. But it’s like Kathleen when she’s like thinking about sessions. And it’s like Kathleen. I don’t care if that influencer got me a 10,000 sessions or.
158 00:17:06.910 ⇒ 00:17:07.660 Uttam Kumaran: No. Yeah. Yeah.
159 00:17:07.660 ⇒ 00:17:08.060 Ben Steinberg: Sessions.
160 00:17:08.060 ⇒ 00:17:09.059 Uttam Kumaran: What’s the efficiency?
161 00:17:09.069 ⇒ 00:17:14.299 Ben Steinberg: Just like, Yeah, what’s my user? Sign up like Cac. And, by the way.
162 00:17:14.300 ⇒ 00:17:15.970 Uttam Kumaran: Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.
163 00:17:15.970 ⇒ 00:17:21.630 Ben Steinberg: That’s where, like on this sheet, I think, like getting definitions like
164 00:17:21.800 ⇒ 00:17:27.309 Ben Steinberg: for this is, gonna be important like this is, I actually put something together. It’s funny that, like so long ago.
165 00:17:28.420 ⇒ 00:17:32.009 Ben Steinberg: I’m not gonna find it. But I put together like an analytics, Doc, where it was like starting to.
166 00:17:32.010 ⇒ 00:17:36.929 Uttam Kumaran: Show me. See if you can find I wanna I wanna I would love to see that like where you just took a stab at some of the definitions.
167 00:17:38.450 ⇒ 00:17:42.540 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, let me see if it do. I do.
168 00:17:42.970 ⇒ 00:17:51.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, just like, that’s where I started of like, okay, we need this because otherwise we’re talking about 7 different things.
169 00:17:51.180 ⇒ 00:17:53.650 Uttam Kumaran: Can you share? Can you share this with me as well.
170 00:17:53.650 ⇒ 00:17:54.139 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, this.
171 00:17:54.140 ⇒ 00:17:54.860 Uttam Kumaran: This is so we’ll just.
172 00:17:54.860 ⇒ 00:17:57.439 Ben Steinberg: I’ll say this is just old, though, but
173 00:17:57.890 ⇒ 00:18:11.745 Ben Steinberg: still things that we need. But like this is, if you look at the funnel, it’s it’s just goes to like Staker. I think we’re gonna need this for like active use, like, we’re building a very different product of like user activity and things like that.
174 00:18:13.010 ⇒ 00:18:14.289 Ben Steinberg: yeah, I’ll still share it with you.
175 00:18:29.040 ⇒ 00:18:34.750 Ben Steinberg: yeah, I think like, like, dude, it’s like the crazy thing is like, I think we are at a point still where
176 00:18:35.030 ⇒ 00:18:38.292 Ben Steinberg: yes, there’s all those individual $70 deals
177 00:18:39.040 ⇒ 00:18:43.199 Ben Steinberg: I would almost be comfortable, like from the seat that I’m sitting in now of like
178 00:18:44.050 ⇒ 00:18:50.270 Ben Steinberg: or fan pages worth it or not, or if, like just literally like, that’s the influencer spend in this channel, like I do think.
179 00:18:50.660 ⇒ 00:18:55.519 Ben Steinberg: like I had. So if you look here like I had an influencer contract, we’re paying her 5 grand a month.
180 00:18:55.720 ⇒ 00:19:06.559 Ben Steinberg: and she only ended up spending out, you know, between 5 and 2015 grand, and so it just wasn’t worth it for the staffing cost. But I think like then I would be interested in like.
181 00:19:06.560 ⇒ 00:19:10.199 Uttam Kumaran: Wait. What is the influencer contract? Oh, she pays other influencers.
182 00:19:10.200 ⇒ 00:19:13.630 Ben Steinberg: I paid her 5 grand a month to be on our team.
183 00:19:14.970 ⇒ 00:19:16.550 Uttam Kumaran: And then what does she do for you?
184 00:19:17.080 ⇒ 00:19:18.110 Ben Steinberg: Outreach.
185 00:19:18.910 ⇒ 00:19:19.710 Uttam Kumaran: Fuck that.
186 00:19:19.710 ⇒ 00:19:21.300 Ben Steinberg: Content, review.
187 00:19:21.610 ⇒ 00:19:22.869 Uttam Kumaran: Why don’t you do that.
188 00:19:23.130 ⇒ 00:19:24.465 Ben Steinberg: I’m busy dude.
189 00:19:24.910 ⇒ 00:19:25.630 Uttam Kumaran: I know, but like.
190 00:19:25.630 ⇒ 00:19:29.040 Ben Steinberg: I’m not trying to like. I’m not trying to do it. Our product is just fucking like.
191 00:19:29.290 ⇒ 00:19:48.139 Ben Steinberg: especially early on, like now, we have more organic social stance stood up. I could send people places, and that’s like part of why I got rid of her. But it was just like a lot to explain the dynamic. Is it gambling? No. And then it was nice to have someone to do all the contracting, all the content briefs, and review, and like
192 00:19:48.470 ⇒ 00:20:17.360 Ben Steinberg: she was looking at the impression level and just being like, Hey, is this a good bet or not? This? These guys will price you 10 K. And 10 K. Could be a steal, and 10 K. Could be whatever. And she’s just doing like very scrappy projections. But it was helpful, because I was thinking about like just a lot of like, just different stuff than influencer. I do think we light back up influencer having the Channel sub Channel campaign framework, delineating between like fan pages. And you know creators could be cool.
193 00:20:17.642 ⇒ 00:20:26.689 Ben Steinberg: Seeing at the individual Creator level, because that’s how the codes would be or the Utm sources. If we’re get. If we steer away from the codes I’m trying to like
194 00:20:26.770 ⇒ 00:20:44.159 Ben Steinberg: almost prep for both futures. I have a feeling when we have all these games live. We’re not going to do as much coupons. It’s going to be like, Hey, play these games and earn rewards for your team rather than here’s a free $25 for your team. So coupons like our current reality. But I don’t think it’s going to be forever.
195 00:20:44.450 ⇒ 00:20:44.970 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
196 00:20:46.080 ⇒ 00:20:53.350 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, like, I feel I would feel like a little uneasy, like only planning around coupons. But I think it’s fine for this 2 week thing, because.
197 00:20:53.600 ⇒ 00:20:57.959 Uttam Kumaran: Right now. And in the future it’s still seemingly gonna be a big part of our business.
198 00:20:57.960 ⇒ 00:21:03.099 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay? Makes sense. So I think there’s, I understand this piece.
199 00:21:03.735 ⇒ 00:21:11.149 Uttam Kumaran: There is a sort of like bringing all this data in, because this is a lot
200 00:21:11.320 ⇒ 00:21:12.860 Uttam Kumaran: like of stuff to go check.
201 00:21:13.240 ⇒ 00:21:15.139 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, it is once a month.
202 00:21:15.310 ⇒ 00:21:19.309 Uttam Kumaran: I think. There is like a metrics, definitions.
203 00:21:19.410 ⇒ 00:21:24.809 Uttam Kumaran: Can you talk to me about like, probably for the metric definitions piece like, what are the core conflicts right now?
204 00:21:25.220 ⇒ 00:21:27.070 Uttam Kumaran: Like.
205 00:21:27.370 ⇒ 00:21:32.809 Uttam Kumaran: what are those metric definitions that you guys aren’t agreeing on or like? There needs to be some discussion about.
206 00:21:37.310 ⇒ 00:21:51.230 Ben Steinberg: There’s not like too much conflict. Yeah, it just like hasn’t really come up so much because we don’t have that like muscle of collectively reviewing data together and figuring out what’s going on like we’ve never done one of those like ta data meetings ever.
207 00:21:51.551 ⇒ 00:21:53.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. So you need. So.
208 00:21:53.160 ⇒ 00:21:53.810 Ben Steinberg: We don’t have.
209 00:21:53.810 ⇒ 00:21:54.409 Uttam Kumaran: But like.
210 00:21:55.270 ⇒ 00:22:02.069 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, that’s what we should run like we should. That’s the milestone is like we run a. We run a monthly data review
211 00:22:03.220 ⇒ 00:22:12.310 Uttam Kumaran: like. And it’s not like the financials like looking at cash in the bank. It’s like looking at. You. Basically put put one of the Me and you put one of these together, and we run that
212 00:22:12.430 ⇒ 00:22:13.330 Uttam Kumaran: right.
213 00:22:13.330 ⇒ 00:22:14.440 Ben Steinberg: Yes.
214 00:22:15.170 ⇒ 00:22:25.539 Ben Steinberg: yes, and I think, like, then we show like, Hey, now, we have this function that we’re building. It wouldn’t happen unless we had the data structured together. Here are the.
215 00:22:25.540 ⇒ 00:22:25.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
216 00:22:26.080 ⇒ 00:22:32.209 Ben Steinberg: Don’t like. I think we can do it at like a monthly level, and be like, Hey, we should probably figure out ways to do this.
217 00:22:32.610 ⇒ 00:22:33.100 Uttam Kumaran: On a weekly.
218 00:22:33.581 ⇒ 00:22:38.879 Uttam Kumaran: How can we? How can we double click into the channel
219 00:22:38.880 ⇒ 00:22:42.599 Uttam Kumaran: when you run? If you were to think about the ideal monthly business review.
220 00:22:42.910 ⇒ 00:22:45.790 Uttam Kumaran: Like.
221 00:22:46.520 ⇒ 00:23:02.299 Uttam Kumaran: I guess I’m not as familiar with the products beyond stake like, are you looking at? Like, okay, we want to look at marketing. Then, once that’s like top of funnel. How are we getting users to the platform? Then we want to look at for the users on the platform like
222 00:23:02.420 ⇒ 00:23:11.399 Uttam Kumaran: would do you break it down like a. You want to break it down like a funnel, or you want to break it down like the product analytics. And then the marketing analytics like.
223 00:23:11.560 ⇒ 00:23:12.379 Uttam Kumaran: how would you.
224 00:23:12.380 ⇒ 00:23:24.769 Ben Steinberg: I think the Cac. I think the Cac analytics is where like this top priority right now, because I think Post talk out of box gives you like, some indication that nobody’s coming back to our site.
225 00:23:24.900 ⇒ 00:23:31.420 Ben Steinberg: Yeah. Yeah. So we have at least like, okay, like, it’s everyone’s gone by week. 4
226 00:23:32.390 ⇒ 00:23:45.469 Ben Steinberg: in terms of like the potential impact for the data set. So I think, like definitely the cac stuff. So we can enable more marketing. And then I’m always gonna have a bias, I think, to do more
227 00:23:45.770 ⇒ 00:23:53.389 Ben Steinberg: like product metrics through the lens of like user segmentation. And like where they come in from, and how are they behaving differently?
228 00:23:53.390 ⇒ 00:23:55.509 Uttam Kumaran: But like, where is that data that’s supposed.
229 00:23:55.510 ⇒ 00:23:57.140 Ben Steinberg: I guess. Post hog, yeah.
230 00:23:57.510 ⇒ 00:23:58.630 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah, cool.
231 00:24:02.850 ⇒ 00:24:04.199 Uttam Kumaran: And then, do you have
232 00:24:05.720 ⇒ 00:24:10.030 Uttam Kumaran: like? But product has a back end database with like user logins and stuff right?
233 00:24:11.300 ⇒ 00:24:14.089 Uttam Kumaran: Like, who is the user.
234 00:24:14.090 ⇒ 00:24:15.209 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I think so.
235 00:24:15.210 ⇒ 00:24:16.420 Uttam Kumaran: They have staked.
236 00:24:16.420 ⇒ 00:24:17.110 Ben Steinberg: Yeah.
237 00:24:17.110 ⇒ 00:24:18.850 Uttam Kumaran: Going to get that from post hog.
238 00:24:18.850 ⇒ 00:24:28.784 Ben Steinberg: No, that would no, no, that would be like all the quick sites, data, or the data that’s piped into quick sites. I don’t necessarily know where I think it would be directly from our app.
239 00:24:29.060 ⇒ 00:24:31.400 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I know. That’s what I’m talking about. Okay, yeah.
240 00:24:31.400 ⇒ 00:24:35.570 Uttam Kumaran: So we have the marketing analytics. We have product analytics. And then we have the user analytics.
241 00:24:36.570 ⇒ 00:24:38.400 Uttam Kumaran: Those are like the 3 cuts.
242 00:24:39.430 ⇒ 00:24:40.990 Ben Steinberg: What’s user analytics? In that case.
243 00:24:40.990 ⇒ 00:24:42.390 Uttam Kumaran: You. It’s this.
244 00:24:42.390 ⇒ 00:24:44.619 Ben Steinberg: Oh, yeah, yeah. And that’s.
245 00:24:44.620 ⇒ 00:24:54.149 Uttam Kumaran: How many users? How much are they staking? Where are most? What are the, what are who are most valuable ones? What are most valuable ones doing.
246 00:24:54.430 ⇒ 00:24:59.049 Uttam Kumaran: How is this growing over time? Yeah, like like a
247 00:24:59.820 ⇒ 00:25:01.800 Uttam Kumaran: like a way. Better version of this.
248 00:25:02.350 ⇒ 00:25:10.979 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I’m gonna say, like, I’m gonna get utam slash like fan stake email.
249 00:25:11.410 ⇒ 00:25:12.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
250 00:25:12.100 ⇒ 00:25:15.870 Ben Steinberg: With quick sites, access at least
251 00:25:16.250 ⇒ 00:25:21.130 Ben Steinberg: quick sites plus access, so like you could see all that stuff. So I’ll put that request in
252 00:25:21.270 ⇒ 00:25:30.250 Ben Steinberg: asap so you could at least see like, okay, these were charts that at 1 point we agreed were interesting enough to look at.
253 00:25:30.610 ⇒ 00:25:31.260 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
254 00:25:31.260 ⇒ 00:25:34.140 Ben Steinberg: Super messy, I mean dude. You look at this coupon one, and it’s like.
255 00:25:36.300 ⇒ 00:25:38.110 Ben Steinberg: How are you supposed to analyze this?
256 00:25:39.040 ⇒ 00:25:43.200 Uttam Kumaran: I know it’s it’s it’s pretty brutal, I mean, it looks like an engineer. Just put it together pretty.
257 00:25:43.200 ⇒ 00:25:49.059 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, so yeah, what else did I think was important to share?
258 00:25:50.520 ⇒ 00:25:55.616 Ben Steinberg: Oh, I did so. So you’ll see it in this, doc, which I think I shared with you.
259 00:26:05.260 ⇒ 00:26:11.680 Ben Steinberg: This was like it changed a little bit from. I had a conversation with Greg before. It was like to meet with Greg and Alex about
260 00:26:11.810 ⇒ 00:26:24.209 Ben Steinberg: goals request like structured raw data. By this the next step here would probably like I mean you. You’ll see it like. But the next step was to figure out like we aligned on this then
261 00:26:25.670 ⇒ 00:26:27.030 Ben Steinberg: building.
262 00:26:27.150 ⇒ 00:26:45.450 Ben Steinberg: based off those docs that I just showed you of like reformatting the spend and the coupon doc. So this spend Doc, probably need to reformat. It can maybe include, like the campaign level information for influencers. But you can see, like Uk videos
263 00:26:46.190 ⇒ 00:26:57.789 Ben Steinberg: pairing it with, you know, hope Uk videos is somewhere listed here. It’s not the same naming convention or whatever. But we could probably join it on on the code to create.
264 00:26:58.090 ⇒ 00:27:02.300 Ben Steinberg: This was like the data request of like raw data.
265 00:27:04.300 ⇒ 00:27:04.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
266 00:27:05.480 ⇒ 00:27:25.880 Ben Steinberg: So that was like similar to when I feel like, like, you know, my mind goes to flow code for some of this stuff because it’s just product. And it’s last really product I worked on. That wasn’t like e-commerce honestly in between now and then I was doing like e-commerce, or just like creative stuff. So I just kind of anchor in a lot of the flow code stuff that we did of like. Here’s what I would want the columns to be.
267 00:27:25.880 ⇒ 00:27:36.540 Ben Steinberg: We’re not gonna have like a lot of daily spend for our historic channels. But hopefully, in the future, we will have a lot more daily spend. And then basically with like this, this set of raw data.
268 00:27:37.530 ⇒ 00:27:48.790 Ben Steinberg: what I would be able to do with pivot tables. And then, like ideally, we can just create these as like, let’s just have these automated. Could do them manually, I’m sure, in the beginning. But
269 00:27:49.430 ⇒ 00:27:59.220 Ben Steinberg: and then you can see these red lines. It’s not the best, but that was kind of what I was saying before, like, I don’t really need to see collective stake dollars in order to observe, user Cac, that, you know.
270 00:27:59.640 ⇒ 00:28:02.156 Ben Steinberg: decreases load time and whatever
271 00:28:03.480 ⇒ 00:28:08.670 Uttam Kumaran: So then so then tell me like tell me, like what the problems for Greg stuff are.
272 00:28:10.100 ⇒ 00:28:19.199 Ben Steinberg: Okay. So I would say, I’m just gonna use this one, because at least it shows you where where the sources are, and it’s probably more up to date actual data, problem.
273 00:28:19.200 ⇒ 00:28:27.110 Uttam Kumaran: No, but his. His stuff is almost is exact, same as as yours, meaning there’s no like he’s not looking for another view. Oh, but this pivot table need is for him.
274 00:28:27.490 ⇒ 00:28:32.749 Ben Steinberg: This is what I put together in like the request. And this would basically answer like.
275 00:28:33.040 ⇒ 00:28:39.129 Ben Steinberg: it’s a different format. I like looking at months on the as the rows. But this has all the same information.
276 00:28:39.640 ⇒ 00:28:40.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
277 00:28:40.130 ⇒ 00:28:50.404 Ben Steinberg: This is just user pack by month. I I just prefer to view data, and that like drop down view, which I think is kind of unconventional, but I’m the one looking at it, so fuck them
278 00:28:51.960 ⇒ 00:28:58.070 Uttam Kumaran: If it table needs. Is the CEO okay? So then alright, I feel like I have enough there. Tell me like.
279 00:28:58.420 ⇒ 00:29:02.410 Uttam Kumaran: if you were to have. Let’s say all this was like magic. Wand was solved.
280 00:29:07.750 ⇒ 00:29:09.940 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what does this unlock.
281 00:29:13.100 ⇒ 00:29:22.330 Ben Steinberg: I think, automating this for just investor high level reporting unlocks time that Greg and I are spending putting.
282 00:29:23.180 ⇒ 00:29:48.719 Ben Steinberg: You know this, I’m talking about copying and pasting some data. But, you know, making sure this spends updated, then paste and like literally hovering in quick sites, being like 250 going back to the doc typing in 250. So it’s just manual right now, and everything else is equations. And I think one of the biggest pitfalls of this Doc. Is this row of the assumed coupon conversion rate, because it should be more informed by
283 00:29:48.900 ⇒ 00:30:02.190 Ben Steinberg: like, if we were to double, click into this and see all the different line items. They would all just be listed at 20, and it would be cool to be able to update those similar to like manual spend ingestion of just like a bottom up way to
284 00:30:03.240 ⇒ 00:30:07.389 Ben Steinberg: get towards what the total would be like with like a weighted average or something.
285 00:30:07.800 ⇒ 00:30:08.450 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
286 00:30:12.400 ⇒ 00:30:16.359 Ben Steinberg: Otherwise, like, I think, like, there are probably some column things like
287 00:30:19.320 ⇒ 00:30:25.540 Ben Steinberg: and that’s where like bi tools could maybe solve that at a certain point of like monthly new coupons.
288 00:30:28.430 ⇒ 00:30:33.510 Ben Steinberg: like the way that I set it up by month where it’s just like it just would show you.
289 00:30:34.010 ⇒ 00:30:41.249 Ben Steinberg: I guess, and you can filter by month so that you can just see the total you don’t need like these running totals.
290 00:30:41.760 ⇒ 00:30:57.140 Ben Steinberg: You know what I mean this is only gonna up. And then he has another formula somewhere for the new stake dollars. And there’s a lot of formulas. And I’m like, if we just have it by month, and you can filter, and you could see the totals for the months you’re filtering for. And you can see.
291 00:30:57.750 ⇒ 00:31:10.370 Ben Steinberg: you know, the individual month. So I felt like that pivot. This pivot table structure just solved for some of the line items here, specifically, the monthly coupons or the monthly state dollars.
292 00:31:10.700 ⇒ 00:31:20.728 Ben Steinberg: This 25. If you look at the formula, somebody, C, 4, minus B 4. It’s just this minus this. So I’m like, we have filters, I think like that would solve for a lot of it.
293 00:31:22.310 ⇒ 00:31:26.450 Ben Steinberg: and so I kind of like took, you know, Greg’s version
294 00:31:27.320 ⇒ 00:31:36.099 Ben Steinberg: kind of did made an updated version with updated data, then reformat it. How I wanted to reformat it where it’s just still, at least in his
295 00:31:36.430 ⇒ 00:31:44.249 Ben Steinberg: months, as the columns. And then, when I went to the raw data needs and like the pivot tables, I was just like, All right, like, let me just do this a little bit more.
296 00:31:44.990 ⇒ 00:31:45.840 Ben Steinberg: How I like.
297 00:31:45.840 ⇒ 00:31:46.460 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
298 00:31:47.750 ⇒ 00:31:54.380 Uttam Kumaran: So really, this is like, okay, would allow you a little bit more time. And it would allow you just basically to optimize where the where the next funds are going.
299 00:31:54.680 ⇒ 00:31:59.419 Uttam Kumaran: And then for Greg, is this like saving basically helping him produce what he needs for investor.
300 00:31:59.780 ⇒ 00:32:04.200 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, this is like, purely for investor stuff. I think, like
301 00:32:05.130 ⇒ 00:32:10.679 Ben Steinberg: it. It isn’t so actionable for me, because it is just the totals
302 00:32:11.270 ⇒ 00:32:21.840 Ben Steinberg: you still would have those anecdotes like, what do we do with this month versus this month? But it’s just monthly totals here. That’s where adding, in this layer of like or like these 3 layers.
303 00:32:22.323 ⇒ 00:32:40.076 Ben Steinberg: Which I was just a proposal like, I remember, with flow code. We ended up rolling them up so many fucking times, and you were I was doing like every time I’m in a pivot table. I’m like doing another manual grouping somehow to get the slice and dice I want to see, but I think this was a good start. And something. We went back and forth with a little bit
304 00:32:41.410 ⇒ 00:32:59.482 Ben Steinberg: but the Channel, one of the channels here of like partner direct, which is when we sign partnerships. There’s no ad cost associated, but want to make sure that, like those users like those are all included in our data. We’re able to attribute them based at on the code level. They’re all using the same code.
305 00:33:00.800 ⇒ 00:33:03.520 Ben Steinberg: coupon code. That is okay.
306 00:33:04.270 ⇒ 00:33:11.460 Ben Steinberg: So then I could see it. So then it kind of goes back like these questions that I listed at the top of this like data. Request Doc, where it’s like.
307 00:33:12.770 ⇒ 00:33:19.489 Ben Steinberg: what was the user Cac from Montana state partnership, whereby ad spend is 0. But coupon codes and referrals are significant.
308 00:33:19.830 ⇒ 00:33:22.020 Ben Steinberg: and we spent money on this partnership
309 00:33:22.210 ⇒ 00:33:29.030 Ben Steinberg: money left our bank account. It wasn’t on anything advertising. It was in coupon credits and organic social
310 00:33:30.110 ⇒ 00:33:33.080 Ben Steinberg: and I think, having
311 00:33:33.590 ⇒ 00:33:43.550 Ben Steinberg: that code as a line item, partner, direct bobcat, collective organic. There will be another Channel partner, direct Bucknell, collective.
312 00:33:44.070 ⇒ 00:33:44.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
313 00:33:44.580 ⇒ 00:34:08.260 Ben Steinberg: Organic, and then then, like the direct stake, would be like the, you know, they place funds. We can reflect that here they stake $18,000 on a player directly from their account. They’re still a user in the system. Now would be the channel, for, like that type of stake, I I believe. And then we kind of got into like some weird use cases where I think everything should be.
314 00:34:08.880 ⇒ 00:34:22.850 Ben Steinberg: I’m saying coupon code dependent. We could also say, like Utm source as well like, eventually take that information in. But, partner direct, if, like, we were just kind of going through different edge cases, which is like an annoying scenario to do early on, but probably helpful
315 00:34:23.050 ⇒ 00:34:27.479 Ben Steinberg: partner direct. So we’re just direct. We? What if we partnered with Montana State.
316 00:34:27.659 ⇒ 00:34:39.690 Ben Steinberg: And we did a podcast and it wasn’t with anything with the bobcat collective who works with Montana State. Still the same team, though. And I was just like we would call it something different and give them a different coupon code
317 00:34:39.800 ⇒ 00:34:42.229 Ben Steinberg: or a different Utm, you know.
318 00:34:44.449 ⇒ 00:34:53.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, this is where, like, your time needs to be going to making sure the attribution works, not the data coming out.
319 00:34:53.669 ⇒ 00:34:59.839 Uttam Kumaran: because your attribution until you get like a real affiliate platform.
320 00:35:00.699 ⇒ 00:35:03.339 Uttam Kumaran: it’s gonna continue to be like this.
321 00:35:03.659 ⇒ 00:35:05.420 Ben Steinberg: Like, what do you mean by that.
322 00:35:05.420 ⇒ 00:35:12.629 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning like something where you can automatically generate links, and you can hand them to your affiliate or influencer partners
323 00:35:12.830 ⇒ 00:35:16.039 Uttam Kumaran: like that sort of stuff.
324 00:35:16.040 ⇒ 00:35:17.320 Ben Steinberg: Like I mean.
325 00:35:18.600 ⇒ 00:35:28.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, there are a lot of affiliate like partner, like tools where
326 00:35:29.170 ⇒ 00:35:31.599 Uttam Kumaran: you can just generate unique links.
327 00:35:31.890 ⇒ 00:35:34.940 Uttam Kumaran: And like
328 00:35:35.520 ⇒ 00:35:39.939 Uttam Kumaran: that way, it’s sort of off your hands to be like, you know. Did we get this track? And blah blah
329 00:35:40.583 ⇒ 00:35:41.570 Uttam Kumaran: so maybe.
330 00:35:41.570 ⇒ 00:35:52.599 Ben Steinberg: Like the the difference between me giving like how I’m doing it right now, for like affiliate deals like I’ll show you like. Let’s go to like a recent. So this guy, Nick.
331 00:35:52.760 ⇒ 00:35:55.829 Ben Steinberg: from an some agency, has all these small time athletes.
332 00:35:55.830 ⇒ 00:36:03.799 Uttam Kumaran: I know. But, dude, you’re like you’re relying on him to like change the coupon code.
333 00:36:04.690 ⇒ 00:36:12.400 Ben Steinberg: No, I’m giving him you individual links. I’m sending him like a I’m sending him 20 links and saying like
334 00:36:12.540 ⇒ 00:36:18.860 Ben Steinberg: it literally, I’m I’m taking this code. I’m I’m doing it super quick and like a scrap paper, Google Sheet, and like.
335 00:36:19.250 ⇒ 00:36:29.849 Ben Steinberg: it’s annoying for me to do. But I’ll do it. I’ll like. Put my standing desk up and take a sip of coffee and just fucking. Bang them out. But I’m literally going searching in the players name, and then
336 00:36:30.000 ⇒ 00:36:33.069 Ben Steinberg: all I have to do is just add
337 00:36:33.950 ⇒ 00:36:49.060 Ben Steinberg: coupon equals. But I’m doing it in a formula. But yeah, I’m I’m I am. Is is there a benefit of other than the time saving of the an affiliate platform for link tracking versus sending the
338 00:36:49.350 ⇒ 00:36:51.710 Ben Steinberg: specific, like coupon links.
339 00:36:52.720 ⇒ 00:36:56.969 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just like you couldn’t. You’re gonna you may make a mistake here.
340 00:36:57.551 ⇒ 00:37:04.590 Uttam Kumaran: And you’re gonna you’re gonna wanna hand this off at some point to someone more junior than you
341 00:37:04.810 ⇒ 00:37:05.730 Uttam Kumaran: to do.
342 00:37:06.000 ⇒ 00:37:06.950 Ben Steinberg: Definitely.
343 00:37:07.170 ⇒ 00:37:12.509 Uttam Kumaran: So without junior person, it’s gonna have no clue. When you explain to them how this works.
344 00:37:14.980 ⇒ 00:37:16.089 Uttam Kumaran: Those are like could be like.
345 00:37:16.090 ⇒ 00:37:19.509 Ben Steinberg: I mean, I made a loom, and that was like a little helpful.
346 00:37:19.510 ⇒ 00:37:23.580 Uttam Kumaran: No, but like this one, I’m saying you, you know it. Things need to be really dummy proof.
347 00:37:24.180 ⇒ 00:37:25.000 Uttam Kumaran: So let’s say.
348 00:37:25.000 ⇒ 00:37:30.919 Ben Steinberg: Do an affiliate like partner platform. Then we would just have to like that. Then we’re using Apis.
349 00:37:31.730 ⇒ 00:37:35.689 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, you’d have an ability to like put information in there, generate.
350 00:37:35.970 ⇒ 00:37:49.549 Uttam Kumaran: Like the URL track like I don’t know. I I would have to go look at like what some options are. I just think like, there, there are some tools that that allow you to do this. Now that aren’t just spreadsheets. I mean, we could keep. We should just keep running it, but
351 00:37:49.990 ⇒ 00:37:51.470 Uttam Kumaran: it’s just complicated.
352 00:37:53.860 ⇒ 00:37:58.066 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, for sure. No, no, that’s that’s that’s that makes sense. I’m following
353 00:38:01.870 ⇒ 00:38:04.939 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, there’s a couple. Yeah. So okay, that makes sense. So really, it’s like
354 00:38:05.250 ⇒ 00:38:11.489 Uttam Kumaran: your ability. So I think overall like, what a lot of this data stuff unlocks is
355 00:38:11.710 ⇒ 00:38:14.179 Uttam Kumaran: one the ability to
356 00:38:14.500 ⇒ 00:38:23.210 Uttam Kumaran: find out where to invest more in and like where to sort of pull stuff in second is ideally we get. We get to a monthly reporting, and then
357 00:38:23.400 ⇒ 00:38:25.749 Uttam Kumaran: you’re able to then and try to achieve weekly
358 00:38:28.640 ⇒ 00:38:31.000 Uttam Kumaran: to support Greg, for like investor
359 00:38:31.210 ⇒ 00:38:33.859 Uttam Kumaran: related things. And 5th is like
360 00:38:33.980 ⇒ 00:38:35.620 Uttam Kumaran: there’s no bit. There’s no like
361 00:38:35.830 ⇒ 00:38:41.760 Uttam Kumaran: formal business review process at your company like nobody’s running meetings with data in it.
362 00:38:41.760 ⇒ 00:38:42.410 Uttam Kumaran: No.
363 00:38:42.410 ⇒ 00:38:43.760 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s that.
364 00:38:43.760 ⇒ 00:38:52.350 Ben Steinberg: I’ll have like a I’ll have like a very like, hey? I looked at the coupon code volume for this one deal that was expensive like. Let’s talk about it.
365 00:38:53.420 ⇒ 00:38:55.699 Uttam Kumaran: So that needs that like needs that like needs to change.
366 00:38:55.700 ⇒ 00:39:00.750 Ben Steinberg: Totally. I like the analysis that I did for Montana State kind of like.
367 00:39:01.890 ⇒ 00:39:05.089 Uttam Kumaran: But like so tell so tell me like, how long it took you to put this together.
368 00:39:06.760 ⇒ 00:39:08.509 Ben Steinberg: Oh, probably 30 min or so.
369 00:39:08.860 ⇒ 00:39:11.869 Uttam Kumaran: Dude you’re under us. There’s no way I feel.
370 00:39:11.870 ⇒ 00:39:12.410 Ben Steinberg: More.
371 00:39:12.410 ⇒ 00:39:13.240 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you all.
372 00:39:13.800 ⇒ 00:39:15.370 Ben Steinberg: Well, I already had this going.
373 00:39:15.370 ⇒ 00:39:20.014 Uttam Kumaran: Everything takes you 30 min. And why am I.
374 00:39:20.530 ⇒ 00:39:22.559 Ben Steinberg: Honestly dude in the trust tree.
375 00:39:22.560 ⇒ 00:39:25.590 Uttam Kumaran: You’re like. It took me 30 min over 2 weeks to get to.
376 00:39:25.590 ⇒ 00:39:29.170 Ben Steinberg: Dude. If me and you are in an Airbnb, I can crank and be really productive.
377 00:39:29.170 ⇒ 00:39:29.800 Uttam Kumaran: I know no.
378 00:39:30.448 ⇒ 00:39:34.339 Ben Steinberg: I’m not the most productive employee.
379 00:39:34.340 ⇒ 00:39:46.879 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I’m not criticizing your productivity. What I’m trying to get at is that there’s a lot of context switching and a lot of stitching and a lot of like, oh, this one thing is wrong, like, I can’t just bring the data and be like it’s good.
380 00:39:48.600 ⇒ 00:39:49.640 Ben Steinberg: Yeah.
381 00:39:50.870 ⇒ 00:39:56.850 Ben Steinberg: this this. I don’t know this, whether, however long it took me like it took me a little bit, and like
382 00:39:57.120 ⇒ 00:39:59.949 Ben Steinberg: it’s it’s a it’s a little bit hairy, but.
383 00:39:59.950 ⇒ 00:40:02.240 Uttam Kumaran: But dude that this is for one.
384 00:40:02.240 ⇒ 00:40:26.920 Ben Steinberg: One partnership. It was our biggest partnership. And I just felt like we were just doing basically what happened. Dude is like, there’s 2 channels, the Msu partnership, and I think, like they’re early stage things that are good for us. But like would we do them again and be happy about it. And like, that’s the question I asked these guys. And that’s been really tough to get an answer. And I want to use the data to fucking. Get an answer out of these guys and some of the things. For example, I had an athlete. I was giving him $25 for every user you brought in.
385 00:40:27.370 ⇒ 00:40:29.159 Ben Steinberg: That’s a $25 cac.
386 00:40:29.980 ⇒ 00:40:54.229 Ben Steinberg: Here’s here’s where, if I like even to walk, I think walking through this actually would like line by line actually does make sense just because it does paint the picture of our business model and like where it can go. So ad spend $0 for a partnership we got. This is like all inputs, the yellow coupons per fan. Somehow they got over this cap. I think we had the coupon break or something.
387 00:40:54.340 ⇒ 00:41:05.389 Ben Steinberg: But basically, these are all like easy to input where things get interesting is
388 00:41:06.580 ⇒ 00:41:11.220 Ben Steinberg: for our partnerships to understand the true cost. Then there are referrals.
389 00:41:11.350 ⇒ 00:41:18.800 Ben Steinberg: I don’t know if we should treat that as part of the partnership. That’s my push is, those referrals don’t exist without the partnership.
390 00:41:19.820 ⇒ 00:41:27.060 Ben Steinberg: The other side of things. Let’s just look at referrals as a separate line item and try and pull that lever with changing the incentive structure.
391 00:41:27.200 ⇒ 00:41:32.260 Ben Steinberg: But basically, referrals are a give 25. Get 25.
392 00:41:33.900 ⇒ 00:41:35.180 Uttam Kumaran: That classic? Yeah.
393 00:41:35.180 ⇒ 00:41:39.940 Ben Steinberg: So that’s a $50 user cac in coupon credits.
394 00:41:41.550 ⇒ 00:41:45.020 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if you want to give the
395 00:41:45.830 ⇒ 00:41:50.350 Uttam Kumaran: like. I don’t know if you want to give the credit to the partnership for the referral stuff.
396 00:41:50.350 ⇒ 00:41:53.270 Ben Steinberg: I think we should probably just have referral as its own channel.
397 00:41:53.270 ⇒ 00:41:56.129 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s helpful to look at it baked in, but like
398 00:41:56.950 ⇒ 00:41:59.549 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know how much the Montana State
399 00:42:00.320 ⇒ 00:42:08.619 Uttam Kumaran: partnership had to do with the referrals happening like this, you guys should probably be running a referral. There should be a slide in that monthly business review on referrals.
400 00:42:09.130 ⇒ 00:42:09.800 Uttam Kumaran: and there should be.
401 00:42:11.210 ⇒ 00:42:12.620 Ben Steinberg: Okay.
402 00:42:12.620 ⇒ 00:42:14.070 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, it’s my, it’s my
403 00:42:14.180 ⇒ 00:42:20.960 Uttam Kumaran: feeling. Okay. So so this. So I mean, so this makes sense. My other question I have is on goals
404 00:42:21.320 ⇒ 00:42:26.429 Uttam Kumaran: like, Do you guys have monthly quarterly yearly goals somewhere.
405 00:42:30.620 ⇒ 00:42:34.900 Ben Steinberg: Short answer is, yes, but it just hasn’t been
406 00:42:37.470 ⇒ 00:42:45.759 Ben Steinberg: like we we did have a process where we have, like a a team wide weekly meeting where there was some data review. And I’ll just share that doc with you.
407 00:42:53.480 ⇒ 00:42:59.530 Ben Steinberg: So it’s from q. 1. It’s a little outdated. But yes, I’ll just share this with you, so you can see it.
408 00:43:10.520 ⇒ 00:43:12.180 Ben Steinberg: So you could see, like the
409 00:43:12.610 ⇒ 00:43:14.780 Ben Steinberg: free user Cac paid user cac.
410 00:43:21.300 ⇒ 00:43:30.720 Ben Steinberg: It was a very hacky sheet users and stakes state fall amount
411 00:43:33.550 ⇒ 00:43:35.569 Ben Steinberg: thing that was like, I’m like, well.
412 00:43:36.180 ⇒ 00:43:43.020 Ben Steinberg: my budget doesn’t line up to these user and cat calls at all. That’s for another day, I think.
413 00:43:45.530 ⇒ 00:43:46.200 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
414 00:43:49.250 ⇒ 00:43:59.129 Uttam Kumaran: okay, so this makes sense. So we do have at least some Okr tracker. But this is like, you want to know, like, this is what needs to be talked about on the Monthly Review is like.
415 00:43:59.250 ⇒ 00:44:01.200 Ben Steinberg: Goals, like.
416 00:44:01.200 ⇒ 00:44:05.109 Uttam Kumaran: Some someone needs to be like yo. Are we hitting? Are we even like getting there? You know.
417 00:44:05.520 ⇒ 00:44:09.330 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, yeah, it’s building this process.
418 00:44:11.770 ⇒ 00:44:15.859 Ben Steinberg: Jeez, I didn’t realize how many freaking separate Google sheets I had until I had to click through them all.
419 00:44:17.260 ⇒ 00:44:24.059 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that still happens. Don’t worry, but you’re see your man. But you are like the only person in the middle of all this.
420 00:44:24.220 ⇒ 00:44:37.170 Uttam Kumaran: and like you, you have an innate understanding of the business, and you have levers. You cannot be like spending 80% of your time understanding and 20% making decisions. It has to be flipped.
421 00:44:37.490 ⇒ 00:44:42.681 Ben Steinberg: Yes, dude. I’ve been dude. I’ve been. I’ve been.
422 00:44:43.180 ⇒ 00:44:46.790 Uttam Kumaran: For us. The way we talk about our business is like, I’m trying to help people make
423 00:44:46.900 ⇒ 00:44:50.260 Uttam Kumaran: more accurate decisions and more of them.
424 00:44:50.915 ⇒ 00:44:51.360 Ben Steinberg: Next.
425 00:44:51.360 ⇒ 00:44:52.040 Uttam Kumaran: That’s it.
426 00:44:52.180 ⇒ 00:44:57.700 Uttam Kumaran: Cause I cause like ultimately, you are the one making the decisions like my job is not to
427 00:44:57.830 ⇒ 00:45:12.149 Uttam Kumaran: make. I can like tell you like recommendations, but you are like our clients are the ones that are like this lever, then this level and this. But like you, need to be spending most of your time pulling levers and seeing which one work and pulling the next one, not like
428 00:45:12.430 ⇒ 00:45:15.840 Uttam Kumaran: discussing the levers or being like I don’t know.
429 00:45:15.980 ⇒ 00:45:19.470 Uttam Kumaran: Really, if like, we should like. That’s pain so painful.
430 00:45:19.470 ⇒ 00:45:19.970 Ben Steinberg: Yes, good.
431 00:45:19.970 ⇒ 00:45:20.340 Uttam Kumaran: Here you got.
432 00:45:20.340 ⇒ 00:45:21.000 Ben Steinberg: How are you guys.
433 00:45:21.000 ⇒ 00:45:24.279 Uttam Kumaran: What? What you what you guys don’t have is time
434 00:45:25.330 ⇒ 00:45:32.679 Uttam Kumaran: right? Your constraint is time like how fast you can try something. It works and double down
435 00:45:33.550 ⇒ 00:45:36.909 Uttam Kumaran: right? That’s it. Because there’s money. There’s there’s cash burning.
436 00:45:37.100 ⇒ 00:45:40.419 Ben Steinberg: We’re we’re in a weird spot where, like seasonally.
437 00:45:41.900 ⇒ 00:45:44.119 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and you’re and it’s like, if your call is, if your call.
438 00:45:44.120 ⇒ 00:45:51.593 Ben Steinberg: The college football season is gonna start, and we’re gonna wanna like light deals up. And like, I, I like the same way like we have these goals.
439 00:45:52.340 ⇒ 00:46:02.119 Ben Steinberg: So we have these goals. And but we’re also like, internally applauding, just getting volume and like having tests work. But Montana State’s free user. Cac was like
440 00:46:02.460 ⇒ 00:46:18.989 Ben Steinberg: 29 bucks. And like, that’s the thing that I want to have the conversations around using the data. Or, for example, I signed like those those players that I showed you from that one agency. I gave them all 25 coupons. This guy, Parker Hughes, is from Middle Tennessee. He’s a linebacker
441 00:46:19.010 ⇒ 00:46:38.770 Ben Steinberg: probably weighs a buck 20. I’d run through but he generated a thousand dollars for himself through his coupon code, friends and family, and then, like a couple of those fans, ripped referrals, siblings, and stuff like that which is fine. But that’s weighing up our cac. And I’m like, do we want more of this
442 00:46:38.920 ⇒ 00:47:01.460 Ben Steinberg: athlete direct channel. Should I do more of these deals? Should we change the product features to enable athletes to? Once you sign up, you get free codes. We can do those things in product, too. So I definitely think we are spending a lot. I’m spending too much time thinking through like, what’s a good Cac, does this work? How does like dude? Look at all these different model like, where is it?
443 00:47:01.600 ⇒ 00:47:09.939 Ben Steinberg: I built all these different models of like an affiliate calculator. And like, there are variables that change
444 00:47:10.670 ⇒ 00:47:34.170 Ben Steinberg: like percent of coupon used by fans. Are they going to get referrals? Even going back to the Montana State one. It’s like we have referrals that blend up our cac from from coupons right? But then coupons aren’t just ad spend. The coupons are the deal amount that goes to an athlete. If we’re giving an athlete a hundred bucks, we actually get $5 back in revenue.
445 00:47:35.090 ⇒ 00:47:35.830 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
446 00:47:36.010 ⇒ 00:47:37.190 Ben Steinberg: That’s part of it.
447 00:47:37.440 ⇒ 00:47:38.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, if you haven’t.
448 00:47:38.710 ⇒ 00:47:41.247 Ben Steinberg: Great. You can see that here.
449 00:47:42.590 ⇒ 00:47:44.840 Ben Steinberg: one thing we won’t get into is like
450 00:47:45.130 ⇒ 00:47:49.689 Ben Steinberg: it’s not like that’s just for the user. We’re also paying an athlete for a post.
451 00:47:50.150 ⇒ 00:47:51.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
452 00:47:51.080 ⇒ 00:47:57.599 Ben Steinberg: That post will generate value in the future. That’s not gonna get integrated here in in A, in a current model.
453 00:47:57.730 ⇒ 00:48:04.700 Ben Steinberg: We’re so far away, I think, but I think in terms of the immediate what I’m hearing. Let me spit, spit at you a little bit, and then we can.
454 00:48:04.700 ⇒ 00:48:05.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
455 00:48:05.460 ⇒ 00:48:12.420 Ben Steinberg: What I think would be good is basically like cleaning up
456 00:48:13.740 ⇒ 00:48:31.160 Ben Steinberg: this. This sheet is a a little delicate, because I think it pipes into. There’s something tech with this sheet where I remember I like fucked with it. I added a column, and that fucked with some engineering things, I think. But basically, taking this sheet
457 00:48:32.710 ⇒ 00:48:34.519 Ben Steinberg: and the budget sheet
458 00:48:37.570 ⇒ 00:48:45.170 Ben Steinberg: and figuring out a way to automate and have like channel sub channel, you know, spit out.
459 00:48:46.220 ⇒ 00:48:48.060 Ben Steinberg: I guess this raw data set.
460 00:48:50.650 ⇒ 00:48:51.290 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
461 00:48:52.590 ⇒ 00:48:53.090 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t.
462 00:48:53.090 ⇒ 00:49:17.829 Ben Steinberg: Really know how it like. I think the assumed coupon conversion rate. I don’t know exactly the best way that we should or shouldn’t treat it in like a 2 week sprint, because I know I can talk and come up with ideas. But I want to find, like a reasonable scope for us to just kind of crush, kick, ass, show a sneak preview of what this could look like on deeper levels, and then get a contract to to do so.
463 00:49:18.560 ⇒ 00:49:19.020 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
464 00:49:19.020 ⇒ 00:49:37.499 Ben Steinberg: I knew this time was coming. By the way, like I put like that, Doc, that I shared you was from January. That’s when I 1st brought your name up internally, and we probably had the conversation, and then I’ve been. I’ve probably mentioned it here, there, because I’m I’m not one to keep my mouth closed. But I have like just kind of been like, all right, like, there’s gonna be a time like I’ve always known there’s gonna be a time when data comes.
465 00:49:37.500 ⇒ 00:49:38.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
466 00:49:38.100 ⇒ 00:49:48.009 Ben Steinberg: What I’m what I’m asking you would be the same thing that I’m asking, Alex. I only really know one way to kind of put it. And I knew these guys weren’t gonna have time. Once we did our offsite and they said that they were gonna start building games.
467 00:49:48.565 ⇒ 00:50:11.550 Ben Steinberg: Yeah. By the way, I think would be like in the roadmap. I think we would come up with all the different ideas. And what would be like game analytics. And what’s the sticky product feature, analytics and how to find that. But I think right now, we just need some basic Cac to figure out, do we want to do more of these partnerships? Or should we do $10 coupon codes or other incentives? And then setting us up to actually run marketing in in the future.
468 00:50:12.060 ⇒ 00:50:12.950 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
469 00:50:13.273 ⇒ 00:50:19.350 Ben Steinberg: Yeah. And you’ll even see like, there’s this is like, I’ll get you into the user data. But you’ll see here, there’s like a
470 00:50:19.560 ⇒ 00:50:37.480 Ben Steinberg: 1st stake team name like we kind of. We also want to like, be able to answer. This is all it’s all like you’ll see it when you go through the docs. But like what schools were staked on Facebook ad campaigns. So we want to kind of be able to see like from it for a given channel. Hey, Facebook actually generated
471 00:50:37.660 ⇒ 00:50:41.080 Ben Steinberg: your school this much money?
472 00:50:41.477 ⇒ 00:50:46.932 Ben Steinberg: So we could bring that back to the school and just like show the value but it’s all kinda kind of listed there.
473 00:50:47.620 ⇒ 00:50:48.080 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
474 00:50:50.070 ⇒ 00:50:57.989 Uttam Kumaran: okay, okay, perfect. Alright. Let me summarize this and get an email over today. And then I want to see if we can just kick off the 2 week thing on Monday.
475 00:50:57.990 ⇒ 00:50:58.500 Ben Steinberg: Yeah.
476 00:50:58.500 ⇒ 00:51:05.570 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’ll come up with a couple of deliverables like, based on what you showed me that we can do by then there’s a couple of like really low hanging fruit things.
477 00:51:06.155 ⇒ 00:51:09.814 Uttam Kumaran: And then, typically the way we work is like one
478 00:51:10.510 ⇒ 00:51:16.929 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we’ll just leave you with at least like by the end of 2 weeks, like a couple of things that we try to provide is one like
479 00:51:17.150 ⇒ 00:51:18.190 Uttam Kumaran: we provide
480 00:51:18.340 ⇒ 00:51:24.859 Uttam Kumaran: sort of a diagram of like how everything is flowing, so at least everybody can see like the complexity. Second is.
481 00:51:25.110 ⇒ 00:51:39.539 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll do. We’ll help you short term with like a ton, a ton of spreadsheet work. So you’ll have a bunch of guaranteed hours from that, like, I’ll I’ll handle that. Then we basically put in front of you guys like a roadmap like, here’s a 6 month roadmap of
482 00:51:39.720 ⇒ 00:51:41.510 Uttam Kumaran: the short and long term
483 00:51:41.650 ⇒ 00:52:02.650 Uttam Kumaran: like analytics that we want to build. I think this is great because you guys aren’t running monthly business review. So there’s a that’s a great sort of cadence for us to be able to present this work to the entire business. So we will plan like a monthly business review is something that we can totally own with you. Of course, a bunch of work in spreadsheets
484 00:52:04.350 ⇒ 00:52:08.190 Uttam Kumaran: and producing anything needed for the investor stuff.
485 00:52:08.380 ⇒ 00:52:11.480 Uttam Kumaran: And then, of course, there’s like, there’s a ton of other
486 00:52:11.730 ⇒ 00:52:17.999 Uttam Kumaran: information here on like future product offering analytics. Post hog related stuff.
487 00:52:19.630 ⇒ 00:52:35.152 Uttam Kumaran: so at that point it sort of becomes just like a, the way we typically do things is like, I sort of scope out those milestones. And then, if you want to do more in a shorter amount of time like, that’s what inflates the pricing. But we just have, like a monthly fixed fee. Typically
488 00:52:36.060 ⇒ 00:52:38.119 Ben Steinberg: Okay, that all sounds great.
489 00:52:38.120 ⇒ 00:52:43.520 Uttam Kumaran: But, like again, we’ll do that. We’ll we’ll sort of put that all in front of you at the end of the 2 weeks. Once. We
490 00:52:43.820 ⇒ 00:52:46.049 Uttam Kumaran: sort of show what what we can do.
491 00:52:46.310 ⇒ 00:52:54.680 Ben Steinberg: Okay, that that sounds great, I think. Like what? Not nervous. That’s not the right word. Just just let me know.
492 00:52:54.680 ⇒ 00:52:55.300 Uttam Kumaran: What it is.
493 00:52:55.300 ⇒ 00:53:01.049 Ben Steinberg: Wise. No, no, not even what it is. Just like. Context, wise just on like
494 00:53:01.510 ⇒ 00:53:04.960 Ben Steinberg: what you need from me. Given the documents I shared with you. I’m also.
495 00:53:04.960 ⇒ 00:53:10.900 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, no, no, we’ll so in this you’ll be our primary stakeholder, meaning like.
496 00:53:11.290 ⇒ 00:53:16.559 Uttam Kumaran: if if we end up running like a a larger engagement, like we’ll do stand ups.
497 00:53:16.980 ⇒ 00:53:18.660 Uttam Kumaran: You’ll be at those
498 00:53:19.070 ⇒ 00:53:25.179 Uttam Kumaran: like requirements come from you to like our team, and then we like work to build those things out like that’s.
499 00:53:25.440 ⇒ 00:53:44.410 Ben Steinberg: Awesome, awesome, but also just like vice versa, like, I just feel like, even if you get the right format like, I may need to go through each line item of of spend and coupon or something, and just like make sure that, like, you know, coming up with this partner direct term or paid media or like. I’m also open to recommendations and stuff like that, too. But just in terms of like, how we’re gonna
500 00:53:44.870 ⇒ 00:53:46.730 Ben Steinberg: marry to. How are.
501 00:53:46.730 ⇒ 00:53:49.420 Uttam Kumaran: No, totally just by marrying.
502 00:53:50.299 ⇒ 00:53:57.879 Ben Steinberg: This, which is like colloquial name, like, you know, how do we get channel sub channel campaign to this? And into like budgeting.
503 00:53:58.350 ⇒ 00:53:59.270 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
504 00:53:59.860 ⇒ 00:54:00.590 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
505 00:54:01.720 ⇒ 00:54:06.510 Ben Steinberg: And I, yeah, I’m gonna put. I’m gonna honestly, I’m gonna put together just like
506 00:54:07.230 ⇒ 00:54:14.489 Ben Steinberg: all the different docs here. So at least like I think it’ll just be helpful for me, too, and then you could at least have them with some like description. Mostly.
507 00:54:14.490 ⇒ 00:54:20.950 Uttam Kumaran: Share. Share this with me. And I’m happy to even put all of our notes here like I, we typically I was gonna do it in a notion, but I can do it there and then.
508 00:54:21.455 ⇒ 00:54:23.869 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll try to draft that stuff today.
509 00:54:24.330 ⇒ 00:54:24.865 Ben Steinberg: Awesome.
510 00:54:25.400 ⇒ 00:54:25.820 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
511 00:54:26.443 ⇒ 00:54:28.846 Ben Steinberg: Alright, sweet dude! I’m pumped for this.
512 00:54:29.190 ⇒ 00:54:29.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Cool.
513 00:54:29.810 ⇒ 00:54:40.489 Ben Steinberg: Business doesn’t run unless we just like, or the reality is like, Oh, costs are really tight. We can’t afford anything, and you just fly blind, and you hope that you figure it out over time.
514 00:54:40.490 ⇒ 00:54:49.489 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, you run a dude. Everything is you’re up against time like you have money to. That’s burning and like only like Greg, needs to go sell, and
515 00:54:49.940 ⇒ 00:54:54.319 Uttam Kumaran: you need to go spend. And it needs to work like it has to work.
516 00:54:55.010 ⇒ 00:54:56.090 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s no other.
517 00:54:56.090 ⇒ 00:54:58.550 Ben Steinberg: Bucknell, we have some Bucknell athletes actually.
518 00:54:58.740 ⇒ 00:54:59.719 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, really.
519 00:54:59.720 ⇒ 00:55:01.919 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, we have. I’ll show you.
520 00:55:04.020 ⇒ 00:55:06.570 Ben Steinberg: We have a big pat.
521 00:55:07.680 ⇒ 00:55:08.150 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
522 00:55:08.150 ⇒ 00:55:09.100 Ben Steinberg: Brady.
523 00:55:09.770 ⇒ 00:55:13.559 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, Dude. I mean, we should do some marketing. You can use me for marketing whatever you want to do.
524 00:55:14.310 ⇒ 00:55:15.060 Ben Steinberg: It’s.
525 00:55:15.060 ⇒ 00:55:17.390 Uttam Kumaran: Or if you want me to make an intro into Bucknell, let me know.
526 00:55:17.390 ⇒ 00:55:39.320 Ben Steinberg: But this is where, like all this, basically, it all boiled up because I started getting pretty annoying. So I was going to have to just find a new job if I can’t do my job here. And I didn’t want to do that. I really like working here. And I said, like, do we want more? Pat O’brien? Pat referred us as Teammate, Brady. We’re giving all those fans free. 5 cap goal. Should we adjust the goals
527 00:55:39.320 ⇒ 00:55:48.579 Ben Steinberg: and be a little more realistic? Or should we just only give them 5 coupon. Is it a $2 50 coupon? There is a number, you know.
528 00:55:48.580 ⇒ 00:55:49.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
529 00:55:49.110 ⇒ 00:55:56.419 Ben Steinberg: So like, it’s just we have to use this historic performance. Put the red numbers up versus the goal, and.
530 00:55:56.890 ⇒ 00:55:58.500 Uttam Kumaran: Know how we’ll run it. Dude if
531 00:55:58.710 ⇒ 00:56:00.130 Uttam Kumaran: we know how we’ll do things so.
532 00:56:00.130 ⇒ 00:56:23.800 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I think I think we’re really gonna crush this. And I think we can just do a good job in this 1st 2 week project. I think we can get like a 6 month contract with it with a bat of an eye, because I think you built a lot of trust in that meeting. I think like me doubling and tripling down like I built so much trust with these guys over 9 months like I feel super comfortable taking. I don’t feel like I’m taking like a risk like if it was a random influencer hire, I’m like, alright. I’m taking a risk on a higher. This isn’t for me. This is
533 00:56:24.200 ⇒ 00:56:27.242 Ben Steinberg: getting the best person to do this like awesome
534 00:56:27.580 ⇒ 00:56:30.960 Uttam Kumaran: Alternative is the higher again. For me, your alternative is a higher
535 00:56:31.110 ⇒ 00:56:37.660 Uttam Kumaran: someone that’s done it once or twice that you don’t really know that you have to interview. It’s tough. Bro, and like those people are expensive, like.
536 00:56:38.300 ⇒ 00:56:44.200 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. Okay, I gotta run. But let me put some stuff together and send me that. Let me that link that you’re working on, too. I can add all my notes. There.
537 00:56:44.670 ⇒ 00:56:49.310 Ben Steinberg: Alright dude, that’s that sounds great. Wait, wait! We didn’t talk pricing
538 00:56:49.570 ⇒ 00:56:54.419 Ben Steinberg: we should so we’re gonna do it on the 2 week. I already got approved for that, but.
539 00:56:55.040 ⇒ 00:57:00.770 Uttam Kumaran: So typically on the 2 week, we typically do like 5 K for 2 weeks.
540 00:57:02.570 ⇒ 00:57:15.630 Uttam Kumaran: if you think that’s too much, I’m I mean for all of the people that are like homies. I typically will try to offer like some discount, because I know you. But if you think that’s fair. Then that’s typically like where we start for our typical like, 2 week engagements.
541 00:57:17.570 ⇒ 00:57:22.740 Uttam Kumaran: And then we like. I don’t worry about hours in that process. I try to hit the goals
542 00:57:22.990 ⇒ 00:57:25.349 Uttam Kumaran: that week that out. So I think like.
543 00:57:25.350 ⇒ 00:57:29.090 Ben Steinberg: In in that email, just like whatever the deliverables are for.
544 00:57:29.090 ⇒ 00:57:32.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, scope just that being super clear. And that’s what I’m gonna do.
545 00:57:32.850 ⇒ 00:57:36.249 Ben Steinberg: They may ask me, and just be like, Hey, see if you can get it down a grand, and then I’ll.
546 00:57:36.250 ⇒ 00:57:36.870 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
547 00:57:36.870 ⇒ 00:57:40.049 Ben Steinberg: Say that to you, and then we’ll find 5. I don’t think.
548 00:57:40.050 ⇒ 00:57:47.589 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how that’s how I would rather do things. And then for the like it, for the sort of 6 month thing
549 00:57:47.760 ⇒ 00:57:50.629 Uttam Kumaran: the factors are. If we can get
550 00:57:51.060 ⇒ 00:58:01.289 Uttam Kumaran: like a 6 month deal, it’s. And also like that’s also really milestone based on my side, I calculate, like, how many hours. It’s gonna take for my team
551 00:58:01.400 ⇒ 00:58:03.500 Uttam Kumaran: and like things like that. But like
552 00:58:04.280 ⇒ 00:58:11.319 Uttam Kumaran: we do have like we could even continue to do things that like a smaller range. But it’ll I’ll show you how it affects the
553 00:58:11.690 ⇒ 00:58:14.310 Uttam Kumaran: the sort of roadmap
554 00:58:14.732 ⇒ 00:58:18.790 Uttam Kumaran: but everything we try to do on like fixed monthly fees. So it’s like super easy. So you’re not like
555 00:58:19.130 ⇒ 00:58:25.010 Uttam Kumaran: being like, oh, can you like try to do this with like 30 min instead of like an app like? I don’t like those like optimizations.
556 00:58:25.140 ⇒ 00:58:31.319 Uttam Kumaran: So instead, I’m like we said it like outcomes based, I know, for our team, like how many hours that roughly translates to, and then
557 00:58:31.790 ⇒ 00:58:36.390 Uttam Kumaran: we give you sort of like all the support. So we do. I mean, we everything like slack whatever. So.
558 00:58:36.890 ⇒ 00:58:40.090 Ben Steinberg: Alright sweet, that that all sounds like it’ll fly so that’s perfect.
559 00:58:40.090 ⇒ 00:58:42.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, all right. So let me get this to you today.
560 00:58:42.330 ⇒ 00:58:45.080 Ben Steinberg: Alright! Thanks, dude! Talk to you later.
561 00:58:45.080 ⇒ 00:58:45.979 Uttam Kumaran: Talk to you soon. Bye.