Meeting Title: PM x TL placeholder Date: 2025-06-10 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Demilade Agboola, Amber Lin, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:10:24.400 ⇒ 00:10:26.050 Amber Lin: I wish.
2 00:10:27.720 ⇒ 00:10:28.370 Awaish Kumar: Hello!
3 00:10:28.540 ⇒ 00:10:31.240 Amber Lin: Let me ping them to join
4 00:10:45.000 ⇒ 00:10:47.159 Amber Lin: change not as well
5 00:10:57.260 ⇒ 00:11:01.220 Amber Lin: Sam, out of more meeting was tough. What do you think.
6 00:11:06.580 ⇒ 00:11:07.650 Awaish Kumar: Sorry.
7 00:11:10.590 ⇒ 00:11:13.489 Amber Lin: What did you think about the matter? More meeting.
8 00:11:14.280 ⇒ 00:11:16.870 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I think it. That’s okay. Like I,
9 00:11:18.270 ⇒ 00:11:21.020 Awaish Kumar: I I don’t think we are that far.
10 00:11:21.655 ⇒ 00:11:21.880 Amber Lin: Like.
11 00:11:21.880 ⇒ 00:11:24.849 Awaish Kumar: We have everything like we have the
12 00:11:25.350 ⇒ 00:11:30.200 Awaish Kumar: in, the, in, the, in, the, in the data platform sheet.
13 00:11:30.330 ⇒ 00:11:37.629 Awaish Kumar: the metrics which are listed. I assume. Most of them are already done in the loops work
14 00:11:38.540 ⇒ 00:11:43.859 Awaish Kumar: just we just we are just looking for more clarity, if there’s any. I just
15 00:11:44.491 ⇒ 00:11:48.020 Awaish Kumar: I just think that only the filters bar.
16 00:11:48.160 ⇒ 00:11:52.280 Awaish Kumar: Maybe there are. Maybe there. There can be some column which are missing.
17 00:11:52.500 ⇒ 00:11:56.569 Awaish Kumar: and he needs to add, but most of it
18 00:11:57.070 ⇒ 00:12:00.969 Awaish Kumar: seems to be done, because these are quite standard metrics.
19 00:12:00.970 ⇒ 00:12:01.589 Amber Lin: It’s like.
20 00:12:01.590 ⇒ 00:12:06.649 Awaish Kumar: 30 time duration, or the count of email like that’s not something.
21 00:12:06.650 ⇒ 00:12:07.380 Amber Lin: Yeah.
22 00:12:07.380 ⇒ 00:12:08.870 Awaish Kumar: Really, difficult, so.
23 00:12:09.230 ⇒ 00:12:09.690 Amber Lin: Okay.
24 00:12:10.790 ⇒ 00:12:16.510 Awaish Kumar: That’s okay. Like, after the investigation, we we figure out like, how how far we are from there.
25 00:12:17.030 ⇒ 00:12:17.810 Amber Lin: Okay.
26 00:12:19.020 ⇒ 00:12:26.510 Amber Lin: I just didn’t feel very confident when Luke said, Oh, I don’t. I don’t know if I can do it today. When you said it was gonna be 2 h.
27 00:12:28.600 ⇒ 00:12:29.589 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I like it.
28 00:12:29.960 ⇒ 00:12:34.199 Awaish Kumar: Like, I also think, like, when I was
29 00:12:34.770 ⇒ 00:12:38.179 Awaish Kumar: on this stage, maybe I was also like to work on
30 00:12:38.670 ⇒ 00:12:47.659 Awaish Kumar: implementation, which seems okay. I figured that out. Just implement it. But implement like implementation takes longer right?
31 00:12:48.420 ⇒ 00:12:54.020 Awaish Kumar: He can investigate it in 2 h of maybe 3 h, but he cannot implement everything in 2 h.
32 00:12:56.050 ⇒ 00:13:01.409 Awaish Kumar: Right, but I think spanning 2 more hours is is worth it, because we
33 00:13:01.590 ⇒ 00:13:05.399 Awaish Kumar: then we will have. We are working. We are not working in Blind Spot. We are.
34 00:13:05.530 ⇒ 00:13:07.760 Awaish Kumar: We know what, where we are going.
35 00:13:11.890 ⇒ 00:13:13.730 Amber Lin: I agree, Hi, Damalade.
36 00:13:16.370 ⇒ 00:13:17.190 Demilade Agboola: Hello!
37 00:13:18.732 ⇒ 00:13:22.170 Amber Lin: I pinged Utam. I don’t know if he’s gonna join, but
38 00:13:22.420 ⇒ 00:13:24.590 Amber Lin: and we probably can get started.
39 00:13:42.560 ⇒ 00:13:47.700 Amber Lin: Okay, I’m finding the document.
40 00:14:07.720 ⇒ 00:14:17.510 Amber Lin: I guess, even before we start this this meeting, just any comments. Recently, because I I have felt like
41 00:14:18.224 ⇒ 00:14:25.340 Amber Lin: we as project manager and technically has been collaborating a lot more for the last week. And this week.
42 00:14:26.060 ⇒ 00:14:32.910 Amber Lin: So I kind of want to hear from you guys of what what’s going? Well, what kind of questions that came up to you like what
43 00:14:33.050 ⇒ 00:14:34.870 Amber Lin: other things you were.
44 00:14:35.745 ⇒ 00:14:41.080 Amber Lin: That was hard or was easy. I just wanted to hear from how things were.
45 00:14:51.580 ⇒ 00:14:53.748 Demilade Agboola: Mean for me. So far it’s been fine.
46 00:14:54.800 ⇒ 00:15:03.140 Demilade Agboola: I will say that there has been like an uptick in meetings recently. Which I mean
47 00:15:03.260 ⇒ 00:15:05.710 Demilade Agboola: being able to figure out how we want to
48 00:15:05.940 ⇒ 00:15:11.920 Demilade Agboola: create those meetings, but also deliver in terms of having time for the actual development to be very important.
49 00:15:12.460 ⇒ 00:15:20.850 Amber Lin: Yeah, not great. I I feel that, too, man I’ve been. I’ve been in meetings the whole day.
50 00:15:21.480 ⇒ 00:15:26.360 Amber Lin: and I don’t really have any time outside of meetings right now.
51 00:15:27.030 ⇒ 00:15:29.569 Amber Lin: So trust me, it is a common goal
52 00:15:29.840 ⇒ 00:15:34.069 Amber Lin: to have less meetings, but sometimes you just have to have them.
53 00:15:37.939 ⇒ 00:15:45.769 Amber Lin: I guess on that that like. What do you think is the meetings we can reduce, or the meetings we cannot avoid like what do you think.
54 00:15:52.650 ⇒ 00:15:55.740 Demilade Agboola: And for me, I think, oh, man.
55 00:15:59.370 ⇒ 00:16:07.020 Demilade Agboola: being able to be maybe more efficient with our meetings instead of like, 1 h blocks. The goal should be 30 to 45 min, for most meetings.
56 00:16:07.310 ⇒ 00:16:09.250 Demilade Agboola: maybe, will be helpful.
57 00:16:11.120 ⇒ 00:16:20.099 Demilade Agboola: if I requires us, like preempting people, to fill out stuff before the meetings, or whatever whatever should be helpful.
58 00:16:20.890 ⇒ 00:16:27.750 Demilade Agboola: that would that would speed up the process of setting meetings. Also.
59 00:16:29.000 ⇒ 00:16:38.229 Demilade Agboola: I think we should also try and ask, like the importance of meetings, and like, be able to prioritize, which are the most critical meetings versus which meetings are
60 00:16:39.980 ⇒ 00:16:49.030 Demilade Agboola: nice to have. And I think just being able to find that balance is.
61 00:16:49.030 ⇒ 00:16:49.360 Amber Lin: It’s.
62 00:16:49.360 ⇒ 00:16:50.570 Demilade Agboola: Very important.
63 00:16:51.211 ⇒ 00:16:57.489 Demilade Agboola: So in my previous consulting experience, we only like we will meet the clients
64 00:16:58.250 ⇒ 00:17:06.020 Demilade Agboola: once a week to give them a weekly update. Now we had slack channels and stuff, and if they needed to miss us outside of those periods they could.
65 00:17:06.150 ⇒ 00:17:09.859 Demilade Agboola: But we all will. It would have like a weekly meeting where we would meet.
66 00:17:10.490 ⇒ 00:17:13.249 Demilade Agboola: Go, hey, this is what we’ve been in so far this past week.
67 00:17:13.390 ⇒ 00:17:15.260 Demilade Agboola: This is where we’ve had issues.
68 00:17:15.390 ⇒ 00:17:18.689 Demilade Agboola: This is what our wins this past week.
69 00:17:18.960 ⇒ 00:17:21.390 Demilade Agboola: and this is what we hope to accomplish in the next week.
70 00:17:25.780 ⇒ 00:17:26.780 Amber Lin: I mean.
71 00:17:28.339 ⇒ 00:17:39.160 Amber Lin: then we can. I I guess we can look at the meetings we have now. Right if if I I do agree that having those weekly meetings up to the clients are very important.
72 00:17:41.230 ⇒ 00:17:45.779 Amber Lin: What meetings we have now, do you think is inefficient.
73 00:17:46.570 ⇒ 00:17:51.719 Amber Lin: or needs to be improved, or is not necessary, like, what can you give me some examples.
74 00:17:52.250 ⇒ 00:17:57.080 Demilade Agboola: I mean for urban stems. I could. I could make an argument that, like our sprint
75 00:17:59.490 ⇒ 00:18:06.119 Demilade Agboola: brim planning, or some of the grooming could be, we could either reduce or not have some of them.
76 00:18:07.940 ⇒ 00:18:19.689 Demilade Agboola: and that’s not to say like sprint planning itself is is not an unnecessary act. It is necessary, but like being able to figure out how we want to do it instead, or like how we want to be able to
77 00:18:23.270 ⇒ 00:18:24.579 Demilade Agboola: just make it like
78 00:18:25.410 ⇒ 00:18:36.149 Demilade Agboola: less. Oh, we have 1 h blocked out there and then we would have sprint retro. That means in that week we have 2 h of meetings straight up, without any
79 00:18:36.580 ⇒ 00:18:45.029 Demilade Agboola: considered, without any potential working sessions, considered without any like it starts to it, starts to add up
80 00:18:45.570 ⇒ 00:18:50.390 Demilade Agboola: so just trying to figure out what meetings are important, what meetings put us in the face of the clients
81 00:18:50.500 ⇒ 00:18:54.939 Demilade Agboola: versus what we experience when we have outside the clients being present.
82 00:18:57.260 ⇒ 00:19:01.470 Demilade Agboola: And maybe, instead of setting, stand ups, we can literally have
83 00:19:04.190 ⇒ 00:19:12.069 Demilade Agboola: we can type what we’ve done the previous day or the like. Our points is like, how do we make certain things more efficient? And I feel like
84 00:19:12.560 ⇒ 00:19:14.769 Demilade Agboola: having so many meetings every single day?
85 00:19:15.297 ⇒ 00:19:23.320 Demilade Agboola: Especially when you’re working on multiple projects. You can literally spend so much time in meetings that, like, you don’t have a lot of time for productive
86 00:19:23.450 ⇒ 00:19:24.360 Demilade Agboola: need work.
87 00:19:25.380 ⇒ 00:19:36.920 Amber Lin: I agree honestly, I cannot agree more because I have to be present at every single one of them like I cannot like. This is my life, and I don’t like what’s going on.
88 00:19:37.390 ⇒ 00:19:42.139 Amber Lin: I’ve been trying to make people update their stuff before the meetings.
89 00:19:42.400 ⇒ 00:19:48.630 Amber Lin: but it doesn’t work. If people don’t update it, and then we have to talk about it in the meeting.
90 00:19:49.470 ⇒ 00:20:04.719 Amber Lin: I think if I can have everything Async, I would love to, it’s just the stand ups are existent right now, because we are not able to do it, Async like. If we were able to do it, Async, I would love to make it shorter. Take it offline.
91 00:20:04.980 ⇒ 00:20:13.259 Amber Lin: But we need the product to move forward. So I guess it’s a balance of it like, how do we make sure that it still moves forward. If we take it, Async.
92 00:20:16.070 ⇒ 00:20:20.239 Demilade Agboola: Is it? Is it possible for us to have, like a end of day
93 00:20:20.950 ⇒ 00:20:26.190 Demilade Agboola: and end of day? Based off the assigned tasks to people like you can get
94 00:20:26.350 ⇒ 00:20:32.270 Demilade Agboola: it can maybe come into slack and ask you for an update or something I don’t know, like.
95 00:20:33.580 ⇒ 00:20:37.020 Demilade Agboola: Maybe potentially, that will put it in disability of people.
96 00:20:40.100 ⇒ 00:20:45.249 Amber Lin: okay, I think we can, we can start trying that? I think I can also ask the AI team to
97 00:20:46.120 ⇒ 00:20:47.719 Amber Lin: to list the
98 00:20:48.250 ⇒ 00:20:53.779 Amber Lin: task, and I can take a screenshot of the tickets that day and then ask people, Hey, how’s progress?
99 00:20:55.010 ⇒ 00:20:58.140 Amber Lin: Like.
100 00:20:58.380 ⇒ 00:21:15.220 Amber Lin: I guess. Demo, as a reflection, what do you? What do we spend the time in stand-ups? Talking about like it always takes it. I mean, it took 15 min for the last stand up, but usually take for the 1st week. It took 30 min each time, like, what were we talking about? Why did it take 30 min.
101 00:21:18.660 ⇒ 00:21:25.980 Demilade Agboola: I feel like, because we were actually going through the nuances of the tickets, and which is which, which is why I feel like.
102 00:21:27.190 ⇒ 00:21:32.299 Demilade Agboola: I think the ideal stand up to me should be. We need to just get like what’s happening on this
103 00:21:32.590 ⇒ 00:21:38.589 Demilade Agboola: literally, is there progress being made? And if there is an issue. Such, there’s no progress being made.
104 00:21:39.090 ⇒ 00:21:47.250 Demilade Agboola: What do we need to do? And so potentially, that might set us up for another call like, okay, you need to talk to this person. I need to talk to you outside. Stand up.
105 00:21:47.450 ⇒ 00:21:52.809 Demilade Agboola: but, like, stand up, should not necessarily be the meeting where, like everything, is thoroughly debriefed, consistently.
106 00:21:59.230 ⇒ 00:22:00.240 Amber Lin: I see.
107 00:22:01.550 ⇒ 00:22:08.130 Amber Lin: So we should do all the briefing ideally outside of the stand up and we just talk about blockers in the stand up.
108 00:22:09.830 ⇒ 00:22:10.550 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
109 00:22:10.880 ⇒ 00:22:21.759 Demilade Agboola: yeah, it should be like, Hey, there’s been progress here. The model should be out today. That could literally be your update. And so if now, the following day, you have stand up and you said something should be out yesterday.
110 00:22:21.920 ⇒ 00:22:43.250 Demilade Agboola: If there’s a blocker you communicate, actually, what’s happened is that blah blah blah blah. And now, if you need to have a follow up outside, stand up, you can say, Hey, I will talk to you and schedule time with that person, but that doesn’t necessarily like we should don’t spend so much time on individual tickets, and so like ends up taking so much time.
111 00:22:44.240 ⇒ 00:22:49.510 Demilade Agboola: That, like, I think the ideal stand up should be to get direction rather than to solve every single thing.
112 00:22:50.739 ⇒ 00:22:55.909 Amber Lin: Do you think having better groom tickets will solve that problem as well, or
113 00:22:56.450 ⇒ 00:23:01.409 Amber Lin: do you think it’s just a matter of discipline of not talking about other things in the stand up.
114 00:23:02.370 ⇒ 00:23:03.319 Demilade Agboola: I think it’s just
115 00:23:03.690 ⇒ 00:23:09.300 Demilade Agboola: like grooming tickets will help. I also feel like the culture helps like if the culture is
116 00:23:09.860 ⇒ 00:23:13.170 Demilade Agboola: stand-ups are not necessarily this place the place to like
117 00:23:13.490 ⇒ 00:23:16.430 Demilade Agboola: talk through every single nuance of a ticket.
118 00:23:17.250 ⇒ 00:23:22.809 Demilade Agboola: It would become a thing where it’s like, okay, I’ve got your progress. Yes, I worked on that yesterday.
119 00:23:22.990 ⇒ 00:23:26.190 Demilade Agboola: Okay, I just send the Pr into the cool.
120 00:23:26.350 ⇒ 00:23:34.820 Demilade Agboola: That’s 1 ticket done next ticket is I haven’t worked on that yet. I was working on the other tickets. Oh, one ticket done next, like just
121 00:23:35.180 ⇒ 00:23:50.989 Demilade Agboola: quick updates. And then if there’s something that jumps out because it’s urgent high priority and hasn’t been handled. It can be, hey? Can we? Can you stay after this call to talk about this? Or can we fix like huddle after just.
122 00:23:51.450 ⇒ 00:23:55.750 Demilade Agboola: I just don’t feel like I consistently solve trying to solve every single thing
123 00:23:55.910 ⇒ 00:24:01.290 Demilade Agboola: in a stand up is the most productive way to spend time personally.
124 00:24:01.290 ⇒ 00:24:08.089 Amber Lin: I agree, I agree. We we got derailed many, many times and then took 30 min. I agree that was not great.
125 00:24:09.259 ⇒ 00:24:12.940 Amber Lin: Okay, I think, for this week. Let’s aim for
126 00:24:14.211 ⇒ 00:24:19.839 Amber Lin: let’s aim for 10 min. We’re gonna end up with 15 min. Let’s aim for it. To be really short.
127 00:24:20.080 ⇒ 00:24:26.700 Amber Lin: let’s always say, whenever someone starts discussing it, we’ll say, Okay, let’s book another call
128 00:24:27.190 ⇒ 00:24:32.480 Amber Lin: and I’ll try to make sure everybody updates their tickets beforehand.
129 00:24:32.740 ⇒ 00:24:35.430 Amber Lin: And so that we could run through it really quickly.
130 00:24:37.270 ⇒ 00:24:38.590 Demilade Agboola: Okay. Sounds good.
131 00:24:38.590 ⇒ 00:24:39.150 Amber Lin: Hmm!
132 00:24:39.910 ⇒ 00:24:43.850 Amber Lin: And probably to enable that I won’t need to have the tickets
133 00:24:44.160 ⇒ 00:24:54.780 Amber Lin: very groomed, and for us to have a very, very clear idea of what’s going on. I think sometimes it’s because we’re making tickets in the in the stand up.
134 00:24:58.370 ⇒ 00:24:59.320 Amber Lin: And
135 00:24:59.920 ⇒ 00:25:10.370 Amber Lin: no, I probably need to meet with you to figure out the priorities on the different tickets because I met with Kyle and he was. He was just like, I can’t tell you the priority. I don’t know.
136 00:25:10.480 ⇒ 00:25:12.659 Amber Lin: So I’m going to need your help with that.
137 00:25:13.290 ⇒ 00:25:14.909 Demilade Agboola: Oh, yeah, sure, that’s no problem.
138 00:25:15.130 ⇒ 00:25:16.540 Amber Lin: Yeah. Okay.
139 00:25:16.700 ⇒ 00:25:24.029 Amber Lin: good. Thank you for bringing that up. I felt that, too. The wish. What about you? Any? How do you feel on the
140 00:25:24.570 ⇒ 00:25:28.680 Amber Lin: how we collaborate in terms of Pn and tech leak.
141 00:25:30.130 ⇒ 00:25:33.850 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, in terms of stand ups, I think, like.
142 00:25:36.040 ⇒ 00:25:42.649 Awaish Kumar: like, what we are like. The only problem is that when you want to
143 00:25:43.050 ⇒ 00:25:45.849 Awaish Kumar: when we want to talk about something and have a
144 00:25:46.060 ⇒ 00:25:50.230 Awaish Kumar: extra meeting like that’s like, if it’s between the
145 00:25:50.670 ⇒ 00:26:02.519 Awaish Kumar: team like then it’s like, it’s okay. But sometimes like when like, for example, if there is something in and I want to get some time from Robert, or
146 00:26:02.710 ⇒ 00:26:06.619 Awaish Kumar: some questions regarding client like that’s becomes challenge, because.
147 00:26:07.060 ⇒ 00:26:15.010 Awaish Kumar: Robert might not have that time from for me to sit like for 30 more minutes, like outside the stand up so.
148 00:26:15.010 ⇒ 00:26:15.580 Amber Lin: Sweet.
149 00:26:16.050 ⇒ 00:26:17.030 Awaish Kumar: That’s like.
150 00:26:17.800 ⇒ 00:26:20.019 Amber Lin: Like at the end of the stand up.
151 00:26:21.130 ⇒ 00:26:28.819 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that’s that’s something. Maybe at this end of stand up, or or maybe we run quick
152 00:26:29.930 ⇒ 00:26:33.649 Awaish Kumar: for for the tickets where we can resolve within the team.
153 00:26:34.381 ⇒ 00:26:37.820 Awaish Kumar: Like the analyst analytics engineer and the
154 00:26:38.060 ⇒ 00:26:40.410 Awaish Kumar: then like, we can just do it
155 00:26:41.567 ⇒ 00:26:47.649 Awaish Kumar: after the meeting, or something like that. But when we have some client facing things, or some
156 00:26:48.110 ⇒ 00:26:53.580 Awaish Kumar: urgent things like that which are blocked, then we can discuss them in the stand up.
157 00:26:55.480 ⇒ 00:27:12.989 Amber Lin: Oh, with. So I think what I hear is with stand up that has clients there. So say, if Emily is there, or if on Eden. It’s when the clients are there. Then we start with their tickets first, st I guess, to talk about what they have, and then
158 00:27:14.410 ⇒ 00:27:18.780 Amber Lin: and then we run like ideally. Everybody on our team should have
159 00:27:18.930 ⇒ 00:27:23.360 Amber Lin: our tickets communicated, and any blockers also.
160 00:27:23.360 ⇒ 00:27:23.720 Awaish Kumar: Alright!
161 00:27:23.720 ⇒ 00:27:24.400 Amber Lin: Ted.
162 00:27:25.780 ⇒ 00:27:29.250 Amber Lin: Yeah, you can have time time with the client.
163 00:27:29.400 ⇒ 00:27:30.530 Amber Lin: Hi, Utam.
164 00:27:35.830 ⇒ 00:27:36.409 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, guys.
165 00:27:37.320 ⇒ 00:27:44.169 Amber Lin: Hi. We were just reflecting on the past week of our collaboration because we worked a lot more.
166 00:27:44.580 ⇒ 00:27:49.880 Amber Lin: I worked a lot more individually with oasis and dead lot in the past week, and we’re talking about
167 00:27:50.070 ⇒ 00:27:51.360 Amber Lin: how things went.
168 00:27:52.290 ⇒ 00:27:53.010 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
169 00:27:56.510 ⇒ 00:28:01.850 Amber Lin: And we mostly been talking about stand ups and how they’ve been a little bit longer, and I think we have
170 00:28:02.350 ⇒ 00:28:06.310 Amber Lin: a few things we want to try out this week to improve.
171 00:28:06.310 ⇒ 00:28:08.759 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, what’s the what are the conclusions?
172 00:28:13.480 ⇒ 00:28:16.439 Amber Lin: so trying to have
173 00:28:16.950 ⇒ 00:28:28.059 Amber Lin: end of day Async updates where people, I I remind people of their tickets and they give the updates because reminding them before the stand up has failed because people just haven’t really updated them
174 00:28:28.250 ⇒ 00:28:35.140 Amber Lin: and currently stand ups are very long because we go through each individual ticket, and we often get derailed
175 00:28:35.370 ⇒ 00:28:37.979 Amber Lin: into talking about specific problems. So
176 00:28:38.300 ⇒ 00:28:43.470 Amber Lin: I think we’re gonna adopt a very, very strict standard of
177 00:28:44.200 ⇒ 00:28:48.560 Amber Lin: this is not for the stand up. This is gonna go outside the stand up.
178 00:28:49.000 ⇒ 00:28:53.070 Amber Lin: and this will need another meeting, and.
179 00:28:53.070 ⇒ 00:28:54.939 Uttam Kumaran: What what other changes.
180 00:28:55.340 ⇒ 00:29:00.920 Amber Lin: And retros can also, I think Demo also brought up the meeting load.
181 00:29:01.190 ⇒ 00:29:06.449 Uttam Kumaran: But let’s talk about those. Let me talk about those 1st 2 things you mentioned so.
182 00:29:06.450 ⇒ 00:29:07.170 Amber Lin: Okay.
183 00:29:07.170 ⇒ 00:29:08.710 Uttam Kumaran: Like. You mentioned that.
184 00:29:09.100 ⇒ 00:29:13.289 Uttam Kumaran: Stand ups where, like? What were the what were the 2 items? Again.
185 00:29:14.410 ⇒ 00:29:18.800 Amber Lin: Stand-ups took long in urban steps.
186 00:29:20.560 ⇒ 00:29:23.240 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? And then the cause, because we’re going through every ticket.
187 00:29:24.630 ⇒ 00:29:25.530 Amber Lin: Yes.
188 00:29:26.630 ⇒ 00:29:31.090 Uttam Kumaran: I guess my question would be my. My question would be, why are we going through every ticket.
189 00:29:33.640 ⇒ 00:29:41.409 Amber Lin: Exactly, but because there were, they were not updated beforehand. I we needed to get status updates.
190 00:29:42.730 ⇒ 00:29:46.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. One thing I’m doing, cause I’m cause I’m so on the AI and the marketing team.
191 00:29:46.630 ⇒ 00:29:46.960 Amber Lin: Hmm.
192 00:29:47.423 ⇒ 00:29:48.350 Uttam Kumaran: I have.
193 00:29:48.690 ⇒ 00:29:54.109 Uttam Kumaran: I have the team. Spend the 1st like one or 2 min updating things.
194 00:29:55.070 ⇒ 00:30:05.239 Uttam Kumaran: Really quickly, because people I just don’t think updating outside of that meeting is gonna happen very frequently. So I have the 1st and then, second is, I don’t talk about tickets that are
195 00:30:05.640 ⇒ 00:30:12.400 Uttam Kumaran: in progress, or I don’t talk about things that are like still to do, because
196 00:30:12.580 ⇒ 00:30:20.780 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the status, right, anything that’s like, I find that I can affect in that meeting I’ll talk about. And then, yeah, I I leave everything until the end.
197 00:30:21.020 ⇒ 00:30:23.110 Uttam Kumaran: like I try not to. Basically just
198 00:30:23.750 ⇒ 00:30:26.086 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll avoid getting derailed if I can.
199 00:30:32.610 ⇒ 00:30:37.880 Amber Lin: I tried to have people update it into stand ups, I think it’ll just take a
200 00:30:39.360 ⇒ 00:30:41.669 Amber Lin: a few more iterations for
201 00:30:42.150 ⇒ 00:30:53.959 Amber Lin: for people to like, update it, update the statuses and also market if it’s blocked. But I think that’s a good starting point. And I I will continue doing that.
202 00:30:55.570 ⇒ 00:30:57.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And then certainly, I think.
203 00:30:57.230 ⇒ 00:31:01.320 Uttam Kumaran: like any sort of deeper conversation should get taken to the end of the meeting or offline.
204 00:31:02.750 ⇒ 00:31:10.184 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, yeah, I wouldn’t go through every ticket like that’s there’s no way, and honestly, like most stand ups should aim for like 15 min.
205 00:31:10.920 ⇒ 00:31:14.529 Uttam Kumaran: Like, and then I keep the last back half to talk about like
206 00:31:14.960 ⇒ 00:31:19.570 Uttam Kumaran: new tickets, or like changes, or we can talk long topics.
207 00:31:20.080 ⇒ 00:31:25.659 Amber Lin: What you say. You spend the 1st 15 min just to
208 00:31:26.030 ⇒ 00:31:34.150 Amber Lin: run through any blockers, and then you spend, if there’s any additional where you spend additional 50 min on it, or do you just you start.
209 00:31:34.150 ⇒ 00:31:35.060 Uttam Kumaran: Well, so like I don’t.
210 00:31:35.060 ⇒ 00:31:35.610 Amber Lin: 15 min.
211 00:31:35.610 ⇒ 00:31:39.210 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, like, I don’t really like ask people to like.
212 00:31:39.340 ⇒ 00:31:49.039 Uttam Kumaran: So like, Run, I basically run the meeting. So I’m like, here are, here’s all the tickets. So the things I look for is I look for stuff that I recognize is Block.
213 00:31:49.150 ⇒ 00:31:56.419 Uttam Kumaran: and if I’ve already asked about it yesterday, and I already got an answer. Then I don’t need to ask about it again, because it’s probably still blocked.
214 00:31:56.810 ⇒ 00:32:12.069 Uttam Kumaran: I also look at anything in Pr review that I can move forward because those are at the finish line. I then look at anything that’s I then look at the overall sprint, and I look at what day it is, and I say, like, Are we screwed? That’s those are the things that I look at.
215 00:32:12.220 ⇒ 00:32:15.459 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t ask about every ticket. And I don’t go.
216 00:32:15.660 ⇒ 00:32:23.759 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t go one by one and tell people to give updates like, I don’t. If if there’s no updates, in fact, like I’m like, Okay, cool, like, let’s just.
217 00:32:23.930 ⇒ 00:32:27.879 Uttam Kumaran: And the meeting. So I I asked, like, Are
218 00:32:28.080 ⇒ 00:32:33.980 Uttam Kumaran: I? Just look at the things that are that are that I should be looking at, which is the stuff that’s like most at risk.
219 00:32:34.140 ⇒ 00:32:36.630 Uttam Kumaran: But I run it like, I’m I’m just usually like.
220 00:32:36.850 ⇒ 00:32:38.890 Uttam Kumaran: what’s the what’s the update with this
221 00:32:39.732 ⇒ 00:32:43.819 Uttam Kumaran: like if it’s if it’s something’s been sitting in progress for way too long.
222 00:32:43.920 ⇒ 00:32:51.569 Uttam Kumaran: cause I I mean, it’s I’m only running 2 teams. So I see like this ticket has been there for 4 days. What’s going on? So I I start with the stuff that’s like
223 00:32:51.970 ⇒ 00:32:56.399 Uttam Kumaran: the worst. And then I anything that’s fine. I don’t really talk about.
224 00:32:58.930 ⇒ 00:32:59.580 Amber Lin: I think.
225 00:32:59.580 ⇒ 00:33:00.069 Demilade Agboola: Or if.
226 00:33:00.070 ⇒ 00:33:01.930 Amber Lin: Here, go ahead!
227 00:33:02.150 ⇒ 00:33:06.190 Demilade Agboola: Even just when people are giving updates on tickets. If there’s a culture of
228 00:33:06.720 ⇒ 00:33:15.800 Demilade Agboola: we, we don’t. We’re not sweating the small stuff on tickets. It could literally be the update could be, I built the model. The Pr should come in today. That’s an update.
229 00:33:15.960 ⇒ 00:33:22.450 Demilade Agboola: The next ticket is literally I haven’t worked on it. I didn’t work on it yesterday. I’ll work on it today
230 00:33:22.820 ⇒ 00:33:27.350 Demilade Agboola: and then like just, it doesn’t have to be long talk.
231 00:33:27.350 ⇒ 00:33:31.559 Uttam Kumaran: But see, I wouldn’t even I would say those are reflected in the status right like.
232 00:33:31.750 ⇒ 00:33:38.840 Uttam Kumaran: if something’s in progress and the due date is Friday. Then there’s nothing to talk about, right?
233 00:33:39.453 ⇒ 00:33:50.116 Uttam Kumaran: Because I always think that there are things that are worth talking about, like things that are blocked or become blocked, or things that like need to get reviewed, or stuff that is
234 00:33:51.080 ⇒ 00:33:53.059 Uttam Kumaran: stuff, that is is
235 00:33:55.334 ⇒ 00:33:59.599 Uttam Kumaran: like that. That’s been in progress for like way too long, or it’s over. Time
236 00:33:59.920 ⇒ 00:34:02.609 Uttam Kumaran: like that’ll easily fill up 30 min.
237 00:34:03.300 ⇒ 00:34:04.050 Amber Lin: Hmm!
238 00:34:04.930 ⇒ 00:34:10.819 Amber Lin: I think my sometimes my fear is that I don’t know if people know what they need to work on
239 00:34:11.530 ⇒ 00:34:17.780 Amber Lin: that day. I’m like. I’m scared that people will like, forget that they need to work on this, and then
240 00:34:18.230 ⇒ 00:34:22.299 Amber Lin: we come back. And it’s closer to the due date we’re like. Oh, no, we’re screwed.
241 00:34:22.300 ⇒ 00:34:31.020 Uttam Kumaran: But but if it’s closer to the due date, then you should bring it up. Hey? This thing is close to the due date, but if something’s due next Friday.
242 00:34:31.520 ⇒ 00:34:35.870 Uttam Kumaran: I. There’s no point to talk about it until, like next Tuesday or Wednesday.
243 00:34:35.870 ⇒ 00:34:36.810 Amber Lin: True. Okay.
244 00:34:36.810 ⇒ 00:34:50.399 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So so this is what this I think, what happens with with Pm, sometimes is is like every day, it’s like, Okay, what is this ticket? It’s like there’s no updates, right? Because we just talked about it last yesterday, and it’s not even due for like 10 days. So
245 00:34:51.300 ⇒ 00:34:57.629 Uttam Kumaran: my, I used to be like yo. I’m not working on this until like 2 days before. Why would I do it? Why would I work on it right now?
246 00:35:00.210 ⇒ 00:35:00.840 Amber Lin: Okay.
247 00:35:00.840 ⇒ 00:35:05.039 Uttam Kumaran: So for me, I just try to. I just try to ask about the things that are like, really at risk.
248 00:35:05.170 ⇒ 00:35:07.459 Amber Lin: And if there’s nothing at risk, that’s great, like.
249 00:35:08.250 ⇒ 00:35:09.879 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll keep it pushing, you know.
250 00:35:09.880 ⇒ 00:35:15.080 Amber Lin: I think good planning and grooming will give me a lot more confidence to do that in the cycle.
251 00:35:15.380 ⇒ 00:35:19.279 Amber Lin: because right now I think the 1st cycle for urban science. We had a lot of tickets
252 00:35:19.720 ⇒ 00:35:24.280 Amber Lin: floating, floating in or getting creative because we’re doing a lot of discovery.
253 00:35:24.600 ⇒ 00:35:27.219 Amber Lin: And so I wasn’t very confident, like
254 00:35:27.500 ⇒ 00:35:39.220 Amber Lin: on a subjective level. So I think I think I’m gonna work with them a lot to make sure that we have all the like the due dates are reasonable, because right now
255 00:35:40.790 ⇒ 00:35:49.999 Amber Lin: for now the due dates don’t make sense, but if they make sense, and I know that I can rely on these due dates to expect that things get done.
256 00:35:50.250 ⇒ 00:35:54.468 Amber Lin: I think that will give me a lot more confidence to run the stand ups
257 00:35:55.180 ⇒ 00:35:58.010 Amber Lin: a lot freely, not freely, a lot quicker.
258 00:35:58.010 ⇒ 00:36:04.339 Uttam Kumaran: I. Also, I also think that there’s a lot of stuff where, like, it’s not worth asking people, it’s worth making a decision and saying, is this, okay?
259 00:36:05.630 ⇒ 00:36:18.170 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t think like, I don’t think you like. For example, if it’s like, Hey? And and when do you think this should be due. That’s too open, ended of a question right like the Pm. Should lead with saying.
260 00:36:18.350 ⇒ 00:36:22.729 Uttam Kumaran: we’d like this to be due on this date. What do you think about that
261 00:36:22.970 ⇒ 00:36:32.590 Uttam Kumaran: like because you have, you have the. You have the sequencing in your mind of like when things need to happen. The individual engineers just should focus on getting their one thing done.
262 00:36:32.730 ⇒ 00:36:35.719 Uttam Kumaran: not like the sequencing of like, how this.
263 00:36:35.720 ⇒ 00:36:36.300 Amber Lin: Thanks. Everyone.
264 00:36:36.300 ⇒ 00:36:37.080 Uttam Kumaran: Else.
265 00:36:37.370 ⇒ 00:36:39.109 Uttam Kumaran: So I think you should just.
266 00:36:39.110 ⇒ 00:36:45.359 Amber Lin: Meet with my tech lead before I just assign the due dates and assign the people, and then.
267 00:36:45.360 ⇒ 00:36:55.070 Uttam Kumaran: But, like you only have 2 weeks right? It’s only 2 weeks. So the things have to get done at some point in 2 weeks. So easy thing is, you say it’s this Friday or next Friday.
268 00:36:55.070 ⇒ 00:36:55.410 Amber Lin: Like.
269 00:36:55.410 ⇒ 00:37:00.929 Uttam Kumaran: That so everything can at least have that. That’s why, when I see things without due dates, I get frustrated because I’m like
270 00:37:01.080 ⇒ 00:37:05.180 Uttam Kumaran: there’s only 2 there you can. At least there’s 2 dates that really matter this week or next week.
271 00:37:05.820 ⇒ 00:37:09.260 Uttam Kumaran: Right, and then you can at least set that, and then at minimum, everything has a due date.
272 00:37:09.470 ⇒ 00:37:31.170 Uttam Kumaran: What you can then do is you can have something more. That’s like Wednesday, Friday, Wednesday, Friday. But like getting so narrow and like, Oh, is it gonna get done today or like tomorrow afternoon, unless it matters for sequencing. It’s like less relevant, I think. What’s more relevant is that everybody’s bought in like once when you decide on a due date. The person who’s taking on the work is also like, Yeah, I’m confident I can get it done.
273 00:37:31.610 ⇒ 00:37:38.399 Uttam Kumaran: because otherwise, if you’re just like this is on this day, this on this day. Then it’s gonna be like it usually is where nobody even looks at the due date field.
274 00:37:39.210 ⇒ 00:37:44.549 Amber Lin: That’s a that’s a great point in terms of getting buy in. How much
275 00:37:44.680 ⇒ 00:37:51.780 Amber Lin: should how should the Pm. And technically collaborate on this like.
276 00:37:52.290 ⇒ 00:38:01.930 Amber Lin: can we think, can we think about it? Do you think it should just be the Pm. Telling the people they’re trying to sell this to the people of, okay, like, do you have? Yeah.
277 00:38:02.210 ⇒ 00:38:10.180 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I think on this like story points assigning that’s something team lead can tech lead can actually
278 00:38:11.027 ⇒ 00:38:19.869 Awaish Kumar: like, have a say more on it. But when it is about the due dates or roadmap setting of the sprint planning like what should be included
279 00:38:20.656 ⇒ 00:38:23.590 Awaish Kumar: in this sprint, it’s it’s more on Pm.
280 00:38:24.950 ⇒ 00:38:30.589 Awaish Kumar: Like I can say, like this ticket is going to take like 5 h. But when you are planning to do that like
281 00:38:30.740 ⇒ 00:38:37.609 Awaish Kumar: before, like by when when we doing like, when we need that like in this week, next week, or whatever
282 00:38:37.890 ⇒ 00:38:41.030 Awaish Kumar: it’s more on the Pm. Side.
283 00:38:43.370 ⇒ 00:38:53.560 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. Also, I also also agree that, like like what time said, we didn’t have just like default settings of these things need to happen this Friday or next Friday, and then.
284 00:38:53.560 ⇒ 00:38:54.350 Amber Lin: Yeah.
285 00:38:54.350 ⇒ 00:38:59.789 Demilade Agboola: So if, if, for instance, we like, for instance, if we need to have a dashboard out by this Friday.
286 00:38:59.920 ⇒ 00:39:11.960 Demilade Agboola: that means the model that powers that dashboard needs to be. Ha! It needs to be out by, say, Wednesday or Thursday. Latest right? So in that case, that allows us also, like landmark, other things
287 00:39:12.160 ⇒ 00:39:20.700 Demilade Agboola: as well. So we can say, Oh, if this needs to be out by Friday, then this model needs to go by Wednesday afternoon, Wednesday, and that allows us to be able to.
288 00:39:20.700 ⇒ 00:39:21.060 Amber Lin: And.
289 00:39:21.060 ⇒ 00:39:26.960 Demilade Agboola: You know, use that as reference, but like having, like those quick like this, Friday next Friday will be very helpful.
290 00:39:26.960 ⇒ 00:39:27.530 Amber Lin: Yeah.
291 00:39:27.530 ⇒ 00:39:28.020 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah.
292 00:39:28.020 ⇒ 00:39:53.019 Amber Lin: Totally, and I think to add on all your guys great points. I think I will also take the time allocated per person, so I know I will have the story points that my Tech League gives me. I will have the capacity of each person, and then I’ll just put due dates on things. I’ll put assignees and put due dates, and then I’ll run it past you to see. Okay, is this the is this the right
293 00:39:53.320 ⇒ 00:39:55.470 Amber Lin: person to do this
294 00:39:56.920 ⇒ 00:40:08.580 Amber Lin: and then. But then in the meeting with our actual team, we’re gonna say, Okay, do you guys agree? One. Do you agree with all this workload, as we said, and 2
295 00:40:09.005 ⇒ 00:40:12.549 Amber Lin: is this due date manageable like? How does that sound to you?
296 00:40:12.550 ⇒ 00:40:25.009 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like like Kickoff should not. It’s not a. It’s not a surprise meeting, like everybody should be like, it’s a check off meeting right? Like, really, the point is to be like, Hey, we all agreed on this work.
297 00:40:25.540 ⇒ 00:40:29.439 Uttam Kumaran: We all, are we all good with this? Yeah, okay, cool. Right?
298 00:40:29.900 ⇒ 00:40:30.240 Amber Lin: So
299 00:40:30.240 ⇒ 00:40:36.490 Amber Lin: do we agree on that work you said like in the kickoff. Everybody has already agreed. But at this point I don’t. I don’t think.
300 00:40:36.490 ⇒ 00:40:55.980 Uttam Kumaran: So after grooming, all this stuff should be basically ready to get reviewed. So typically in grooming, it’s actually not just the Pm and the tech lead. It’s like everybody. We’re a small team. So I don’t think everybody needs to be there, because most usually those meetings are just like 2 people talking, and everybody sort of silence. Kind of a waste of time.
301 00:40:55.980 ⇒ 00:40:56.430 Amber Lin: Yeah.
302 00:40:56.430 ⇒ 00:40:58.139 Uttam Kumaran: I think the solution is like
303 00:40:58.820 ⇒ 00:41:01.570 Uttam Kumaran: Pm and tech lead review everything. And then
304 00:41:01.800 ⇒ 00:41:05.090 Uttam Kumaran: they send an update to the rest of the team. Hey? We’ve groomed.
305 00:41:05.280 ⇒ 00:41:08.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, for the upcoming sprint. Here are all the tickets.
306 00:41:08.670 ⇒ 00:41:11.100 Uttam Kumaran: Take a look before the meeting. That’s it.
307 00:41:17.300 ⇒ 00:41:20.859 Uttam Kumaran: And then worst case during kickoff, people will will look at their stuff.
308 00:41:34.140 ⇒ 00:41:35.310 Amber Lin: Oh.
309 00:41:38.790 ⇒ 00:41:42.600 Amber Lin: right? Okay, sounds good.
310 00:41:49.780 ⇒ 00:41:50.670 Amber Lin: okay.
311 00:41:51.150 ⇒ 00:41:56.119 Amber Lin: So in grooming, we make sure that we have all the contents.
312 00:41:56.280 ⇒ 00:41:59.489 Amber Lin: And we have story points and priority.
313 00:41:59.730 ⇒ 00:42:11.610 Amber Lin: And then I work on a session to based on people’s time allocations. I assign due dates and sign needs and then offline. We also, and then we send the tickets Async to the team to review and then kick off.
314 00:42:12.530 ⇒ 00:42:15.730 Amber Lin: Team agrees, and then we’re good.
315 00:42:16.370 ⇒ 00:42:20.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, so for for marketing. So for marketing on 2 weeks friends.
316 00:42:21.165 ⇒ 00:42:42.459 Uttam Kumaran: but like, that team is pretty, they’re pretty close to each other. So like, I can have everyone in every meeting AI team, we do one week. So on Mondays or today, because everyone was out yesterday, we basically spend an hour. And I go through everything. That’s I close out stuff from last week. And I go through stuff that’s coming up this week. And we do that once a week.
317 00:42:42.856 ⇒ 00:42:52.670 Uttam Kumaran: But in stand up tomorrow, like I’m gonna ha! I’m also having someone else run. Stand up so like it’ll rotate between Mustafa Casey and Miguel like who runs stand up
318 00:42:53.300 ⇒ 00:42:58.249 Uttam Kumaran: that way like I can focus on paying attention to like what’s lagging
319 00:42:58.640 ⇒ 00:43:08.159 Uttam Kumaran: like, what isn’t gonna come out or like, what? Where in the sequence did I get stuff wrong, or like tickets that are like need other support like that? I need to book meetings for.
320 00:43:09.424 ⇒ 00:43:12.465 Amber Lin: I wanna, I wanna try that, too.
321 00:43:20.420 ⇒ 00:43:21.680 Amber Lin: Oh.
322 00:43:21.930 ⇒ 00:43:28.630 Amber Lin: okay, thank you all for helping me with that, I think that gives me a lot more clarity. And hopefully.
323 00:43:28.790 ⇒ 00:43:31.839 Amber Lin: I can run the. We can run the
324 00:43:31.970 ⇒ 00:43:35.110 Amber Lin: client cycles much more smoothly now.
325 00:43:36.990 ⇒ 00:43:45.780 Amber Lin: checking how much time you guys have if you want. We can go through one section on the Pm. Technically, collaboration, Doc.
326 00:43:46.060 ⇒ 00:43:50.260 Amber Lin: or we can meet again later this week.
327 00:43:55.200 ⇒ 00:44:00.469 Demilade Agboola: I mean, technically, I do have time. But like I have some things I need to turn out in terms of today’s.
328 00:44:00.470 ⇒ 00:44:01.890 Amber Lin: But that’s what I was.
329 00:44:01.890 ⇒ 00:44:04.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I have. I have to. I have to run.
330 00:44:04.130 ⇒ 00:44:07.689 Amber Lin: Okay, let’s do. Let’s do another meeting. I’m also sure.
331 00:44:07.880 ⇒ 00:44:11.059 Amber Lin: very, very tired from meetings today.
332 00:44:11.560 ⇒ 00:44:18.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t think I can. I mean, I just tell me, like where you need me. But like rest of my week is gonna be really tough. So.
333 00:44:18.050 ⇒ 00:44:18.580 Amber Lin: Okay.
334 00:44:18.580 ⇒ 00:44:19.090 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.
335 00:44:19.090 ⇒ 00:44:19.940 Amber Lin: Sounds good.
336 00:44:20.150 ⇒ 00:44:32.700 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think what I need from you is just if you have time just to drop any comments that come to your mind. Stop them in the document, and then me there a lot of ways can talk about them together.
337 00:44:33.520 ⇒ 00:44:33.859 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
338 00:44:34.720 ⇒ 00:44:35.470 Amber Lin: Yeah.
339 00:44:35.470 ⇒ 00:44:39.470 Amber Lin: So I will put you as optional for the any meetings that will follow this.
340 00:44:42.230 ⇒ 00:44:51.600 Amber Lin: Okay, thank you all. I know you have work you need to do. I’m gonna go look at the tickets a little bit and then
341 00:44:51.730 ⇒ 00:44:57.319 Amber Lin: let me know when you have time after your focus block to meet about urban stamps.
342 00:44:58.250 ⇒ 00:45:04.029 Demilade Agboola: Alright sounds good. I will probably do a 1 and a half hour focus block, and then, if you that works.
343 00:45:04.030 ⇒ 00:45:06.329 Amber Lin: Okay. Sounds good. That works perfect for me.
344 00:45:07.020 ⇒ 00:45:08.149 Demilade Agboola: That sounds good.
345 00:45:08.150 ⇒ 00:45:08.680 Amber Lin: That’s for sure.
346 00:45:08.680 ⇒ 00:45:09.090 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.
347 00:45:09.090 ⇒ 00:45:10.100 Amber Lin: Bye, bye.