Meeting Title: PM x TL Date: 2025-06-06 Meeting participants: Fireflies.ai Notetaker Awaish, Demilade Agboola, Uttam Kumaran, Amber Lin
WEBVTT
1 00:05:15.150 ⇒ 00:05:16.709 Demilade Agboola: Hi amba.
2 00:05:21.240 ⇒ 00:05:22.900 Amber Lin: Good morning. Hello.
3 00:05:26.102 ⇒ 00:05:33.030 Amber Lin: let me check. Do you know if wish is gonna join today or he’s off today?
4 00:05:34.740 ⇒ 00:05:38.239 Amber Lin: Oh, okay, let me go grab
5 00:06:00.870 ⇒ 00:06:01.610 Amber Lin: Okay?
6 00:06:04.170 ⇒ 00:06:05.110 Amber Lin: Oh.
7 00:06:12.530 ⇒ 00:06:20.280 Amber Lin: okay, he’s gonna join. He was. He came here before both of us. He was there all alone. There he goes.
8 00:06:20.900 ⇒ 00:06:21.720 Uttam Kumaran: I guess.
9 00:06:22.600 ⇒ 00:06:23.510 Amber Lin: Hi.
10 00:06:23.690 ⇒ 00:06:24.580 Uttam Kumaran: Hi.
11 00:06:24.580 ⇒ 00:06:26.800 Amber Lin: Sorry you had to be there all along.
12 00:06:27.020 ⇒ 00:06:28.270 Uttam Kumaran: I know that’s okay.
13 00:06:29.242 ⇒ 00:06:36.049 Amber Lin: Have we had a chance to look at the documents and leave any comments.
14 00:06:37.680 ⇒ 00:06:38.590 Uttam Kumaran: No.
15 00:06:38.590 ⇒ 00:06:40.469 Amber Lin: Okay, let’s let’s do that. Then.
16 00:06:41.136 ⇒ 00:06:42.910 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, well, I’m excited.
17 00:06:42.910 ⇒ 00:06:43.570 Uttam Kumaran: Section.
18 00:06:44.120 ⇒ 00:06:47.379 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I mean, I’ve added some on Section 2.
19 00:06:47.620 ⇒ 00:06:49.070 Amber Lin: Oh, yeah. Great.
20 00:06:49.070 ⇒ 00:06:50.889 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice. You could. Okay.
21 00:06:51.799 ⇒ 00:07:03.239 Amber Lin: Sent it in the chat again. Let’s just take like 3, 4 min. Comment. Read, we’ll just focus on section 2 and 3 today. Hopefully, we can get those through.
22 00:07:04.710 ⇒ 00:07:05.060 Uttam Kumaran: Alright!
23 00:09:47.850 ⇒ 00:09:53.180 Amber Lin: Hi, have we had time to leave any comments or just read it.
24 00:09:55.870 ⇒ 00:10:06.300 Amber Lin: Okay, yeah, so just to quickly overview these 2 sections. So we have onboarding, which is
25 00:10:08.270 ⇒ 00:10:17.849 Amber Lin: So transitioning from discovery to sales. And then we have planning and prioritization which is essentially sprint planning.
26 00:10:19.620 ⇒ 00:10:21.520 Amber Lin: Let me just rename that.
27 00:10:23.900 ⇒ 00:10:32.660 Amber Lin: And actually, devil do you wanna drive section 2, and I can do. Section 3.
28 00:10:33.040 ⇒ 00:10:40.919 Amber Lin: I know you’ve read Section 2 already, so I’ll I’ll let you run through this and talk through your comments.
29 00:10:43.306 ⇒ 00:10:47.730 Demilade Agboola: Sure I was trying to finish up some food, but it’s it’s all good.
30 00:10:52.430 ⇒ 00:10:53.900 Demilade Agboola: Let’s see.
31 00:10:59.460 ⇒ 00:11:02.050 Amber Lin: You can share your screen with us. Helpful?
32 00:11:02.790 ⇒ 00:11:03.580 Amber Lin: Yeah.
33 00:11:03.580 ⇒ 00:11:04.359 Demilade Agboola: Can you hear me?
34 00:11:05.160 ⇒ 00:11:05.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
35 00:11:07.350 ⇒ 00:11:08.250 Demilade Agboola: Okay,
36 00:11:11.320 ⇒ 00:11:12.760 Demilade Agboola: So for
37 00:11:13.350 ⇒ 00:11:23.790 Demilade Agboola: onboarding. I think, generally speaking, it’s just basically about how quickly can we go from sales mode to delivery mode.
38 00:11:24.510 ⇒ 00:11:27.100 Demilade Agboola: And what does that transition look like?
39 00:11:28.885 ⇒ 00:11:37.600 Demilade Agboola: So we if you think of before, we’re thinking of like onboarding new engineers, we’re thinking of onboarding new clients.
40 00:11:37.980 ⇒ 00:11:42.070 Demilade Agboola: but thinking of introducing, like internal workflows, like slack
41 00:11:43.069 ⇒ 00:11:46.939 Demilade Agboola: and establishing the ritual. So stand up comms rituals.
42 00:11:48.060 ⇒ 00:11:53.620 Demilade Agboola: I think, from the lack of comments on this I think we’re largely aligned on
43 00:11:54.030 ⇒ 00:11:59.790 Demilade Agboola: was responsible, accountable consulting. And will be informed of all this.
44 00:12:01.900 ⇒ 00:12:13.520 Demilade Agboola: I think, for the tough questions it’s like, Do both irons and engineers know what success and don’t look like in this environment in that like 1st 2 week period. What does that look like?
45 00:12:14.270 ⇒ 00:12:24.570 Demilade Agboola: Are we on boarding just enough context without overwhelming, which potentially is one of those things where, if you come to the if you come on the projects, you know. Potentially.
46 00:12:25.710 ⇒ 00:12:27.750 Demilade Agboola: there can be so much to do
47 00:12:28.180 ⇒ 00:12:31.060 Demilade Agboola: that, you know, it’s just hard to do anything
48 00:12:31.683 ⇒ 00:12:39.249 Demilade Agboola: especially to understand who owns what and what decisions are made, and to which asks, this is covered in sprint planning.
49 00:12:39.600 ⇒ 00:12:44.589 Demilade Agboola: I’m not sure what time was going for. With this response, or with this comment, can you.
50 00:12:44.590 ⇒ 00:12:47.729 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I guess, like shared understanding of who owns what
51 00:12:47.890 ⇒ 00:12:53.749 Uttam Kumaran: like. That’s what we do in sprint and sprint, grooming and stuff, right? So I feel like it’s
52 00:12:54.850 ⇒ 00:12:58.950 Uttam Kumaran: meaning like. So I guess some of the things under tough questions. I’m like.
53 00:12:59.110 ⇒ 00:13:02.009 Uttam Kumaran: these are just the the answers to those right like
54 00:13:02.540 ⇒ 00:13:05.929 Uttam Kumaran: who owns what that should be determined in in sprint planning.
55 00:13:07.720 ⇒ 00:13:17.930 Amber Lin: Is it determined in spring planning, or is it determined in onboarding? Is that onboarding? Is that initial phase of getting introduced to the project? Right? It’s
56 00:13:18.510 ⇒ 00:13:22.360 Amber Lin: is it made? Is a decision made here, or is it made later?
57 00:13:23.620 ⇒ 00:13:32.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So who owns what I I think about which engineers are owning? What things like at the
58 00:13:33.630 ⇒ 00:13:39.880 Uttam Kumaran: or is this like, for example, is this about like between the Pm and sales? And technically, who owns what
59 00:13:41.210 ⇒ 00:13:44.790 Uttam Kumaran: cause I feel like? That’s already pretty clear, right? Like we
60 00:13:48.010 ⇒ 00:14:00.720 Uttam Kumaran: cause if it’s like what engine? Because I don’t. For for example, like the engineers, it it we it shouldn’t be like, oh, this engineer, we can’t do too much pre work meaning that sprint planning has to happen once we get the requirements like it’s
61 00:14:00.940 ⇒ 00:14:10.519 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not something we’ll know early on. But yeah, I guess, like I’m I’m kind of confused if this is related to like who owns what in terms of the client execution, or
62 00:14:10.520 ⇒ 00:14:11.570 Uttam Kumaran: I see, like.
63 00:14:11.710 ⇒ 00:14:16.869 Amber Lin: This makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Let’s, we can just delete that question
64 00:14:18.140 ⇒ 00:14:20.110 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a good question. I think it should be like.
65 00:14:20.110 ⇒ 00:14:21.260 Amber Lin: Move it later.
66 00:14:22.130 ⇒ 00:14:26.450 Uttam Kumaran: Well like, I think, who owns what is what we did in this graph in the graph, right.
67 00:14:28.398 ⇒ 00:14:30.810 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think it’s 1 of those things where
68 00:14:31.370 ⇒ 00:14:35.400 Demilade Agboola: I think part of good onboarding is we get clarity on.
69 00:14:36.720 ⇒ 00:14:46.590 Demilade Agboola: And what’s in the like sprint like, who’s responsible for, you know, whatever outcomes whatever tasks tickets get, you know, knocked out the park.
70 00:14:50.360 ⇒ 00:14:53.779 Demilade Agboola: so I think we could probably take out this question.
71 00:14:54.650 ⇒ 00:14:55.300 Amber Lin: Okay.
72 00:15:00.750 ⇒ 00:15:06.079 Demilade Agboola: Or have we equipped new teammates with the right tools, access rituals and relationships?
73 00:15:07.960 ⇒ 00:15:13.149 Demilade Agboola: I think I just added this comment on like this relies on scoping being done like adequately done.
74 00:15:14.106 ⇒ 00:15:19.840 Demilade Agboola: Because if if we’re coming onto a project and
75 00:15:20.200 ⇒ 00:15:22.670 Demilade Agboola: it’s not clear what needs to be done.
76 00:15:23.425 ⇒ 00:15:29.180 Demilade Agboola: The 1st couple of weeks will be discovery.
77 00:15:30.130 ⇒ 00:15:46.070 Demilade Agboola: So we’ll you know the engineers are coming on board, and then they’ll they’re learning about. Oh, there’s a new tool that we didn’t hear about, or there’s a new process that we’re not aware about, or there’s someone else that is a stakeholder that we’re not aware about that sort of stuff.
78 00:15:46.600 ⇒ 00:15:50.199 Demilade Agboola: and so that relies heavily on scoping being done such that, like
79 00:15:51.750 ⇒ 00:15:55.430 Demilade Agboola: whoever’s coming on the project knows all they need to know
80 00:15:55.841 ⇒ 00:16:03.710 Demilade Agboola: without being overwhelmed, but they know all they need to know before coming on board. So that’s kind of the comment I made on. Why I made that.
81 00:16:04.180 ⇒ 00:16:06.170 Demilade Agboola: Does anyone have any thoughts or.
82 00:16:09.830 ⇒ 00:16:11.410 Amber Lin: That makes sense to me.
83 00:16:13.610 ⇒ 00:16:14.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
84 00:16:14.480 ⇒ 00:16:22.099 Uttam Kumaran: in terms of in terms of standards and things like again, I think it’s all sort of determined in that 1st kickoff meeting and sprint planning.
85 00:16:22.320 ⇒ 00:16:24.820 Uttam Kumaran: I think my my whole thing is like.
86 00:16:25.350 ⇒ 00:16:32.739 Uttam Kumaran: we’re we have to buy like until we get become a bigger company. We’re not gonna have like a lot of
87 00:16:32.980 ⇒ 00:16:38.469 Uttam Kumaran: time like sales isn’t gonna be able to get all the requirements for this crew.
88 00:16:38.670 ⇒ 00:16:42.389 Uttam Kumaran: So a lot is gonna be captured during that 1st 2 weeks.
89 00:16:42.560 ⇒ 00:16:48.080 Uttam Kumaran: So my bias is that for those 1st 2 weeks should almost try to meet every day
90 00:16:48.300 ⇒ 00:16:51.459 Uttam Kumaran: with the client, like, for example, urban stems.
91 00:16:51.680 ⇒ 00:16:56.860 Uttam Kumaran: like. I can already feel like we may be getting a little bit like
92 00:16:58.187 ⇒ 00:17:09.810 Uttam Kumaran: distant, because Zack and Alex haven’t been to stuff. I know I met with Emily. But I just I can kind of see that it’s like there’s a slower momentum.
93 00:17:09.910 ⇒ 00:17:25.760 Uttam Kumaran: So I think this is where, like the Pm. Really has to push to make sure that, like you have to like, really like, kick, start the car. It’s not just like the Pm. Kickoff meeting. It’s like, Hey, let’s like guarantee. We can at least run through all the rituals for one sprint.
94 00:17:26.109 ⇒ 00:17:30.079 Uttam Kumaran: and they they can get onto our speed before we sort of like
95 00:17:30.750 ⇒ 00:17:35.759 Uttam Kumaran: try to chill out and like, do the job right like that’s my.
96 00:17:36.160 ⇒ 00:17:40.739 Uttam Kumaran: That would be my thing, because that’s what’s won us. A lot of clients is
97 00:17:41.569 ⇒ 00:17:45.059 Uttam Kumaran: the job only begins as after we sign the contract
98 00:17:45.340 ⇒ 00:17:50.890 Uttam Kumaran: right? And so we kind of almost want to overwhelm them. In the 1st 2 to 4 weeks
99 00:17:51.170 ⇒ 00:17:55.659 Uttam Kumaran: that way. We can start to then build a sustainable program. After that.
100 00:17:57.130 ⇒ 00:18:08.619 Uttam Kumaran: right? I I think, in matter more is also a good example where I think we had momentum, and then it sort of slowed. So that momentum like has. That’s like heartbeat has to keep going right. That’s, I think. Pm.
101 00:18:09.820 ⇒ 00:18:18.370 Uttam Kumaran: I think, where where the tech lead comes in is being the person to dictate the engineering team on. Hey! We have stand ups where you have to come to?
102 00:18:18.480 ⇒ 00:18:31.239 Uttam Kumaran: When are these tasks like? Why, why are these tasks taking longer than they should reach out for help? Send looms, request Pr reviews. That’s something that the Pm. Is gonna have a hard time to get buy in on.
103 00:18:31.380 ⇒ 00:18:38.990 Uttam Kumaran: But, like Demo out of you, or a wish, you’ll easily be able to say, Hey, can you send me a Pr. And the engineer and the team will will definitely do that for you.
104 00:18:39.130 ⇒ 00:18:39.970 Uttam Kumaran: you know.
105 00:18:40.280 ⇒ 00:18:46.119 Uttam Kumaran: So questions about when things are, how? Why things are taking so long. How is it gonna be built?
106 00:18:46.380 ⇒ 00:19:01.750 Uttam Kumaran: Scalability, that stuff is tech lead. But the this is where that frees up the Pm. To like keep the heartbeat. Because if if the heartbeat isn’t going, then like sale, like, I basically like, I have to step in to just like kind of restart.
107 00:19:13.710 ⇒ 00:19:14.840 Uttam Kumaran: Does that make sense.
108 00:19:16.440 ⇒ 00:19:18.060 Amber Lin: Yeah, that makes sense to me.
109 00:19:18.550 ⇒ 00:19:19.280 Demilade Agboola: Thanks Monroe.
110 00:19:19.280 ⇒ 00:19:19.660 Demilade Agboola: Aspect.
111 00:19:19.660 ⇒ 00:19:20.410 Amber Lin: And.
112 00:19:22.430 ⇒ 00:19:28.631 Demilade Agboola: I think my question on that is, which is kind of what I said. What are our standards of delivery in the 1st 2 weeks?
113 00:19:30.250 ⇒ 00:19:31.270 Demilade Agboola: because.
114 00:19:32.050 ⇒ 00:19:35.380 Uttam Kumaran: You’re saying inside of like actual like, end tickets and stuff.
115 00:19:36.210 ⇒ 00:19:46.130 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, like, when cause you part of what you said was, you know, we we want to overwhelm the clients, and, you know, meet with them frequently, and all that stuff, but that is not necessarily like
116 00:19:47.160 ⇒ 00:19:49.819 Demilade Agboola: necessarily deliverable per se. It’s
117 00:19:49.980 ⇒ 00:19:56.900 Demilade Agboola: I don’t know how to explain. But like so that’s why, I asked, like, what are these standards of our favorable? So how do we expect that like we want to come across?
118 00:19:57.520 ⇒ 00:20:00.639 Demilade Agboola: And also, what do we generally want to have transitioned over
119 00:20:00.770 ⇒ 00:20:04.170 Demilade Agboola: 2 in the 1st 2 weeks. So is it that, like
120 00:20:04.710 ⇒ 00:20:07.339 Demilade Agboola: we would have some Pr sensing.
121 00:20:07.730 ⇒ 00:20:15.956 Demilade Agboola: is it that we would have a certain number of meetings with the clients. Is it that we would have expected to have groom tickets to a certain point?
122 00:20:16.610 ⇒ 00:20:20.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it’s the. I think it’s the the tickets, like the 1st sprint.
123 00:20:21.640 ⇒ 00:20:23.830 Uttam Kumaran: like the 1st 2 sprints are groomed.
124 00:20:23.970 ⇒ 00:20:31.079 Uttam Kumaran: Basically that that affects everything right like it’s everything
125 00:20:31.340 ⇒ 00:20:34.919 Uttam Kumaran: like I don’t know. I’m in my brain. I sort of picture like a train
126 00:20:35.160 ⇒ 00:20:39.610 Uttam Kumaran: that’s like moving right in the in the beginning it’s like very slow.
127 00:20:39.800 ⇒ 00:20:48.359 Uttam Kumaran: but like as soon as we get 4 weeks of tickets, things can run. The other thing is yes, all the all the sprint
128 00:20:48.970 ⇒ 00:20:54.160 Uttam Kumaran: cross rituals for the 1st 2 sprints have to run like
129 00:20:54.410 ⇒ 00:20:59.180 Uttam Kumaran: to the T, you know, like we can’t immediately move to Async.
130 00:20:59.300 ⇒ 00:21:02.189 Uttam Kumaran: We can’t immediately, like start shifting stuff.
131 00:21:02.945 ⇒ 00:21:05.500 Uttam Kumaran: That like really needs to happen.
132 00:21:07.728 ⇒ 00:21:21.350 Uttam Kumaran: I also think we also. Still, we also need to build the like. How we report back to the team right? Like, I think, amber. We talked about either like weekly updates or bi-weekly like. However, we share
133 00:21:21.520 ⇒ 00:21:26.260 Uttam Kumaran: updates on like our progress has to also kick off immediately
134 00:21:26.480 ⇒ 00:21:31.270 Uttam Kumaran: the 1st 4 weeks. There’s a lot of risk, but also like a ton of opportunity.
135 00:21:36.350 ⇒ 00:21:38.340 Uttam Kumaran: you know. So we should take advantage of that.
136 00:21:41.640 ⇒ 00:21:43.981 Amber Lin: Totally. I’m writing down there
137 00:21:44.620 ⇒ 00:21:53.769 Amber Lin: what we should expect for the 1st 2 sprints. Right? I think it’s it was very helpful to list out the things we should hit.
138 00:21:54.402 ⇒ 00:22:04.199 Amber Lin: Because I still think onboarding is a like what I had in this document earlier. It was a little bit vague. And I like having say, Okay.
139 00:22:05.070 ⇒ 00:22:08.240 Amber Lin: no flexibility really in the virtuals.
140 00:22:09.287 ⇒ 00:22:13.540 Amber Lin: Starting all these reportings early and then
141 00:22:14.080 ⇒ 00:22:23.909 Amber Lin: getting the 1st 2 sprints groomed as soon as possible, cause I don’t think we can groom the tickets before we start, as you mentioned, because we start so fast.
142 00:22:24.260 ⇒ 00:22:28.920 Amber Lin: And so it’s it’s probably taking extra grooming sessions.
143 00:22:29.380 ⇒ 00:22:30.120 Amber Lin: So that’s.
144 00:22:30.120 ⇒ 00:22:30.670 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
145 00:22:30.670 ⇒ 00:22:33.060 Amber Lin: How this will be materialized.
146 00:22:34.610 ⇒ 00:22:35.839 Uttam Kumaran: That makes sense too.
147 00:22:42.966 ⇒ 00:22:49.310 Demilade Agboola: Okay? So I think we’ve started like answering this, whereas.
148 00:22:55.630 ⇒ 00:22:57.700 Demilade Agboola: okay, it’s just a hobby.
149 00:22:58.990 ⇒ 00:23:00.140 Demilade Agboola: Stand out.
150 00:23:02.328 ⇒ 00:23:07.610 Demilade Agboola: Sure, I I think voice time when.
151 00:23:15.960 ⇒ 00:23:29.219 Amber Lin: Yeah, just a oh, are we on the next section now? Oh, never mind. I was just wanting to ask or to write it down of how we want to make the clients feel, and this is probably more for the Pm.
152 00:23:30.790 ⇒ 00:23:33.650 Amber Lin: Of how I execute things.
153 00:23:33.780 ⇒ 00:23:38.040 Amber Lin: So I I believe we want to deliver a sense of
154 00:23:38.150 ⇒ 00:23:46.740 Amber Lin: order. We want to communicate to them that we’re well organized, and that we move very fast.
155 00:23:47.140 ⇒ 00:23:51.939 Amber Lin: And oh, also, here we also establish
156 00:23:54.330 ⇒ 00:23:59.869 Amber Lin: as part of onboarding to establish what we’re gonna need from them. So standards we have for the client
157 00:24:00.360 ⇒ 00:24:02.389 Amber Lin: learned that the hard way.
158 00:24:08.190 ⇒ 00:24:09.530 Amber Lin: What do you guys think.
159 00:24:22.790 ⇒ 00:24:24.549 Demilade Agboola: I mean, yeah.
160 00:24:24.550 ⇒ 00:24:30.880 Uttam Kumaran: This stage. It just has to be someone with like the authority, right? Like the client wants a guide.
161 00:24:31.390 ⇒ 00:24:33.609 Uttam Kumaran: So we have to really be
162 00:24:33.890 ⇒ 00:24:38.230 Uttam Kumaran: pretty clear and say, this is the way we do things.
163 00:24:39.100 ⇒ 00:24:44.789 Uttam Kumaran: Let us know if you have an objection versus what do you think
164 00:24:45.520 ⇒ 00:24:50.970 Uttam Kumaran: right like? Hey? We’re gonna do grooming on this day. We’re gonna do this on this day. We’re gonna do this on this day.
165 00:24:51.350 ⇒ 00:24:56.140 Uttam Kumaran: If you have an objection to those, let us know otherwise. This is the plan.
166 00:24:56.440 ⇒ 00:24:59.909 Uttam Kumaran: I think, on a lot of clients we’re plant, we’re we’re.
167 00:25:00.020 ⇒ 00:25:03.419 Uttam Kumaran: And this is again, probably more of a artifact of just
168 00:25:03.600 ⇒ 00:25:08.960 Uttam Kumaran: learning in that. I think we’re not as forward on like we’re gonna do this and this and this.
169 00:25:09.260 ⇒ 00:25:14.929 Uttam Kumaran: I think we have to. We have to really just like drive it home and own this because they’re looking for a partner, you know.
170 00:25:22.130 ⇒ 00:25:22.970 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
171 00:25:24.570 ⇒ 00:25:31.608 Demilade Agboola: I also agree that I think we should like get into the mind state, or just in general.
172 00:25:33.030 ⇒ 00:25:39.699 Demilade Agboola: just the general mindset that we are like the experts in the room. And that’s why we’re being paid, or we’re being paid.
173 00:25:41.070 ⇒ 00:25:41.820 Amber Lin: Yeah.
174 00:25:44.170 ⇒ 00:25:48.920 Amber Lin: And as part of this is how I guess pm, and tech lead collaborate
175 00:25:49.030 ⇒ 00:25:55.419 Amber Lin: of what happens when we don’t know? What happens.
176 00:25:56.000 ⇒ 00:26:18.550 Amber Lin: I guess that is also part in client communication. I think, overall. We can talk about how we actually exude what is required for us to Re to become this guide right that requires us to have prepared Rachel to have all these plans prepared, and to know what to solve when problems come up.
177 00:26:19.070 ⇒ 00:26:21.789 Amber Lin: That’s all my comments for this section.
178 00:26:26.500 ⇒ 00:26:34.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. The only other comments I just said is like, I, I sort of just clarified a couple of things which is like single internal point of contact has to be the Pm.
179 00:26:35.310 ⇒ 00:26:41.849 Uttam Kumaran: The tech lead. I don’t think this, but I don’t think the buddy program thing is like needed.
180 00:26:42.440 ⇒ 00:26:46.390 Uttam Kumaran: Anything technical should go through the tech lead.
181 00:26:49.700 ⇒ 00:26:52.449 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s like no other hierarchy.
182 00:26:53.587 ⇒ 00:27:00.620 Uttam Kumaran: I think, for I think the tech lead off should also tell the engineers.
183 00:27:00.790 ⇒ 00:27:05.180 Uttam Kumaran: You’re expected to come to stand up. These sorts of demos
184 00:27:05.330 ⇒ 00:27:10.489 Uttam Kumaran: like that, I think, coming from a technical person will get a lot of more buy in
185 00:27:15.330 ⇒ 00:27:20.509 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, just pack the 1st 2, 4 weeks with as many calls as humanly possible.
186 00:27:21.370 ⇒ 00:27:23.730 Uttam Kumaran: They’ll buy a lot of headache later.
187 00:27:27.520 ⇒ 00:27:30.290 Uttam Kumaran: like the old. The clients that were going well.
188 00:27:31.240 ⇒ 00:27:40.490 Uttam Kumaran: like urban stems went well, because for that 1st month, where I was just me, I met with them like 4 times, basically 4 times a week, 5 times a week, 6 times a week.
189 00:27:41.325 ⇒ 00:27:45.560 Uttam Kumaran: Pool parts I met almost every day for, like 6 months.
190 00:27:47.860 ⇒ 00:27:54.219 Uttam Kumaran: Like Eden. Robert was running solo. And we’re we’re like, basically their old data team. Now.
191 00:27:54.892 ⇒ 00:28:01.540 Uttam Kumaran: so all of these, we really need to just like consume and like really be top of mind for them, you know.
192 00:28:01.840 ⇒ 00:28:12.790 Uttam Kumaran: So this is why, like previously, what you know the way I when I was talking to Nico a lot. I was like they need to at least get a message, an email or a call from us every day.
193 00:28:13.310 ⇒ 00:28:16.430 Uttam Kumaran: like something has to happen every day.
194 00:28:16.700 ⇒ 00:28:28.860 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So that’s the thing is like we have to find a way to manufacture that because we are working on stuff for them every day there are some smaller clients. Yes, that maybe like a day or 2, can go by.
195 00:28:29.150 ⇒ 00:28:32.000 Uttam Kumaran: But like, for example, like today, I have to write.
196 00:28:32.150 ⇒ 00:28:49.640 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna I could ditch it today. But instead, I’m like, even though we didn’t do much for off the record, I’m still gonna send a message there. I’ve been emailing pool parts every day for the last 4 days with updates, even though like a bunch of stuff only got done yesterday. So you just you have. I found something to say.
197 00:28:49.760 ⇒ 00:28:56.130 Uttam Kumaran: and this is something I think Nico didn’t really execute on well, and we haven’t. I think we’re getting better.
198 00:28:56.420 ⇒ 00:29:06.180 Uttam Kumaran: But like it’s still super hinged to work getting done, and we need to separate. Those communicating to a client does not necessarily mean work has to get done. To do that
199 00:29:06.290 ⇒ 00:29:12.980 Uttam Kumaran: like ABC, we do a good job. But with all clients, we just need to be like talking to them right like
200 00:29:13.510 ⇒ 00:29:21.309 Uttam Kumaran: this job is actually the more communication. We do frankly, like the less engineering and the less engineering mistakes we will make
201 00:29:22.128 ⇒ 00:29:27.209 Uttam Kumaran: and so, and communicating and sending emails way cheaper than an hour of Dbt. Work
202 00:29:29.560 ⇒ 00:29:31.110 Uttam Kumaran: for everybody, you know.
203 00:29:34.310 ⇒ 00:29:35.270 Amber Lin: Totally.
204 00:29:35.470 ⇒ 00:29:41.960 Amber Lin: And and then I guess this also goes to the part later in the client communications of what if they don’t respond.
205 00:29:46.370 ⇒ 00:29:50.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, if if there is a well, this is where like there has to be escalation.
206 00:29:51.310 ⇒ 00:29:55.139 Uttam Kumaran: So there has to be a playbook, for like client is not responding.
207 00:29:55.620 ⇒ 00:29:58.999 Uttam Kumaran: Then we will fire them like I we can’t, we can’t.
208 00:29:59.790 ⇒ 00:30:01.740 Uttam Kumaran: We have to have some reset right?
209 00:30:02.410 ⇒ 00:30:06.870 Uttam Kumaran: But also this is where, like, for example, like you, I think you have to give me some scenarios
210 00:30:07.110 ⇒ 00:30:11.649 Uttam Kumaran: like like, give me an example of of like when where this is happening.
211 00:30:17.250 ⇒ 00:30:19.299 Amber Lin: I would say that they take a bit.
212 00:30:19.690 ⇒ 00:30:31.629 Amber Lin: Take a bit longer. I haven’t had scenarios when they completely just gave up responding is when they take a bit longer, and sometimes our development a little bit inched on them responding.
213 00:30:32.111 ⇒ 00:30:42.090 Amber Lin: But overall, I haven’t had a situation where they just gave up and never heard from them. Usually they’re just very slow, for instance, in matter, more in an ABC. Sometimes.
214 00:30:42.360 ⇒ 00:30:46.280 Uttam Kumaran: But see, this is the thing where, even in Mattermore, yesterday I said.
215 00:30:46.480 ⇒ 00:30:55.649 Uttam Kumaran: like we can only move forward if you do, and you have to get them to agree to that, because fine, if we can’t, if we, if if they’re at least as long as they’re okay with the timeline.
216 00:30:55.880 ⇒ 00:31:03.260 Uttam Kumaran: then that’s fine, right? Like we like we can’t be. We unfortunately can’t be like annoying
217 00:31:03.480 ⇒ 00:31:06.689 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like I don’t want to get looked at as like, oh, they’re just like
218 00:31:07.180 ⇒ 00:31:09.659 Uttam Kumaran: working, too. There’s too much going on
219 00:31:10.240 ⇒ 00:31:17.840 Uttam Kumaran: like instead, if it’s like, Hey, ABC works at this pace, and that’s all that’s all we can do. We can’t. We can’t do anything right. We’re not in their company.
220 00:31:17.980 ⇒ 00:31:26.369 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s it. But I also know that for ABC, there’s 10 other things that on our side have not gotten done yet.
221 00:31:26.480 ⇒ 00:31:41.330 Uttam Kumaran: So this is where, like I’m still haven’t yet to see a case where the project is completely blocked by kind, even on matter more. There’s 5 things that were not done that we found out yesterday. The Dbt work wasn’t done. The data platform work wasn’t done
222 00:31:41.480 ⇒ 00:31:44.629 Uttam Kumaran: like those things we knew about weeks ago.
223 00:31:44.780 ⇒ 00:31:48.299 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m still not super convinced that this is really happening.
224 00:31:48.420 ⇒ 00:31:49.540 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s like a real problem.
225 00:31:49.540 ⇒ 00:31:49.940 Amber Lin: I don’t.
226 00:31:49.940 ⇒ 00:31:52.849 Uttam Kumaran: Across any of our clients. I don’t think we’ve had a client where
227 00:31:53.240 ⇒ 00:31:58.049 Uttam Kumaran: we have been sincerely blocked by them. We’ve always had a lot of other work to do.
228 00:31:59.740 ⇒ 00:32:03.920 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, until I hear differently like, that’s probably gonna be my perspective, because
229 00:32:04.180 ⇒ 00:32:07.220 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think I’ve seen a client where we’ve truly been like.
230 00:32:07.610 ⇒ 00:32:11.049 Uttam Kumaran: we’re waiting on you. There’s so much other stuff that we can do.
231 00:32:12.910 ⇒ 00:32:16.140 Uttam Kumaran: And then when we get unblocked, that unlocks more stuff right? So.
232 00:32:16.980 ⇒ 00:32:17.820 Amber Lin: Agreed.
233 00:32:19.100 ⇒ 00:32:23.409 Uttam Kumaran: And and this is sort of also like how we treat internal people like at our company, like, if
234 00:32:23.610 ⇒ 00:32:27.139 Uttam Kumaran: who? Who’s waiting for a week on stuff like, you know.
235 00:32:28.210 ⇒ 00:32:34.320 Uttam Kumaran: Sometimes you’re wait. We’re waiting on one task for a week, but there’s 100 other things to do, you know. So we keep going.
236 00:32:37.070 ⇒ 00:32:47.030 Amber Lin: And that should also be a playbook, for when we have, I guess, in the in section, for when we, when someone is facing a blocker
237 00:32:47.190 ⇒ 00:32:48.450 Amber Lin: what should be done?
238 00:32:49.548 ⇒ 00:32:56.250 Amber Lin: But let’s talk about. We can talk about sprint planning if everybody agrees on Section 2.
239 00:32:57.390 ⇒ 00:33:01.799 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I would. I just the other last thing is like, I would just remove this buddy thing. And
240 00:33:02.970 ⇒ 00:33:07.730 Uttam Kumaran: and then, yeah, we should have some playbook on like we’re completely locked, like.
241 00:33:08.250 ⇒ 00:33:16.420 Uttam Kumaran: I would say there has to be some sort of like like diagnosis at that point, because again, like
242 00:33:17.410 ⇒ 00:33:42.439 Uttam Kumaran: yesterday’s meeting, showed that there were things that, like a waste, could have called out that probably weren’t called out. And it’s not his fault. He just got on that client. But like I was like, okay, immediately the data platform works out there. We haven’t brought this into Dvt. Yes, power Bi is still blocked. And we I brought it up like 5 times, but like there were all 2 things that we should have done before, you know, so that requires probably a reset
243 00:33:42.640 ⇒ 00:33:46.470 Uttam Kumaran: with tech lead and with sales, and looking at like what we I’m just, ma’am.
244 00:33:46.780 ⇒ 00:33:49.340 Uttam Kumaran: and like, are are we there yet? You know.
245 00:33:51.715 ⇒ 00:33:52.460 Amber Lin: Great.
246 00:34:14.800 ⇒ 00:34:21.480 Amber Lin: Okay, have we had a chance to go over? Section 3. If not, we’ll take 3 min read through
247 00:34:22.508 ⇒ 00:34:26.900 Amber Lin: prepare any comments, objections, and then we’ll talk.
248 00:42:02.350 ⇒ 00:42:05.550 Amber Lin: Okay. Seems like everybody have made it to the end.
249 00:42:06.101 ⇒ 00:42:08.269 Amber Lin: We have quite a few comments.
250 00:42:10.503 ⇒ 00:42:12.349 Amber Lin: Let’s see.
251 00:42:14.240 ⇒ 00:42:16.440 Amber Lin: So let’s talk about what the
252 00:42:16.950 ⇒ 00:42:24.280 Amber Lin: outcome of this should be. If you start the 3rd section off. I wrote here that
253 00:42:24.780 ⇒ 00:42:34.400 Amber Lin: out of this we want a clean groomed backlog, and essentially a sprint that we know what we oh.
254 00:42:36.140 ⇒ 00:42:38.269 Amber Lin: like a well planned script.
255 00:42:50.990 ⇒ 00:42:51.910 Amber Lin: Wow!
256 00:42:54.590 ⇒ 00:43:02.760 Demilade Agboola: I thought I told him about talk cause I saw him unmuted. But yeah, I think being able to
257 00:43:03.080 ⇒ 00:43:10.649 Demilade Agboola: number one, know what we want to do immediately, and also know what how things lead on to other things is kind of how I view it.
258 00:43:11.345 ⇒ 00:43:22.730 Demilade Agboola: So if we know if we know what we’re trying to execute now, and we understand the order of priority, and we understand what, how all these things come together in terms of like
259 00:43:22.860 ⇒ 00:43:24.280 Demilade Agboola: business value.
260 00:43:24.430 ⇒ 00:43:27.022 Demilade Agboola: That’s kind of how I feel, all of it.
261 00:43:28.450 ⇒ 00:43:31.819 Amber Lin: I’m sorry how they come together in terms of what kind of value.
262 00:43:32.370 ⇒ 00:43:57.399 Demilade Agboola: Business value. So we know that if we do A that translates to B+B translates to C and C is the final business outcome that allows, you know, some someone on the client’s team to be able to carry out a certain function and makes them or saves them. XYZ. Amount of money, because you know, their marketing team can function. The finance team can make certain, you know.
263 00:43:57.860 ⇒ 00:44:01.456 Demilade Agboola: decisions that sort of like business value.
264 00:44:01.970 ⇒ 00:44:02.650 Amber Lin: I see.
265 00:44:02.650 ⇒ 00:44:10.760 Demilade Agboola: Like, yeah, just being able to understand what we’re doing in that sprint and how it translates to impacts on the client side.
266 00:44:11.360 ⇒ 00:44:20.130 Amber Lin: So like an overall, higher, like a higher level view. Not only what tickets is going in there, but overall. Why are we doing this?
267 00:44:21.684 ⇒ 00:44:26.309 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think, like, like, ultimately, tickets are great. But like.
268 00:44:26.420 ⇒ 00:44:35.029 Demilade Agboola: if we’re doing tickets, because if we’re doing tickets ultimately, we can just have tickets where we’re fixing stuff, and we’ll just basically like.
269 00:44:35.170 ⇒ 00:44:42.840 Demilade Agboola: Oh, you come in here, come, do this. You come in here, come, do that. And you know, 3 months go by, or whatever period goes by, the spring goes by.
270 00:44:43.170 ⇒ 00:44:51.019 Demilade Agboola: and like, we can’t necessarily say, Hey, this is our wins, you know. These are the things that we’ve done that have, you know, translated to like
271 00:44:51.380 ⇒ 00:45:14.330 Demilade Agboola: actual business value for your for your company. And I think to be honest like when we’re translating our wins at the end of every sprint, we should be able to put some value to what we’ve done, or a dollar amount what we’ve done or be able to say, hey? Because we’ve made this data available. We’ve made that data available. This is what it translates to
272 00:45:14.580 ⇒ 00:45:24.739 Demilade Agboola: in like your everyday business decision, like everyday presentation making, or, you know whatever, just like being able to communicate the value that we’re adding.
273 00:45:24.850 ⇒ 00:45:33.290 Demilade Agboola: so that when we’re up for renewal. They are well, they’re well aware of how all the sprints have gone, and how that is, how that has been converting to
274 00:45:33.955 ⇒ 00:45:36.389 Demilade Agboola: business value all through 2 weeks.
275 00:45:39.290 ⇒ 00:45:40.000 Amber Lin: I agree.
276 00:45:40.000 ⇒ 00:45:44.139 Uttam Kumaran: I need some sort of like a business review monthly at least.
277 00:45:45.299 ⇒ 00:45:47.019 Amber Lin: Yeah, it should be.
278 00:45:47.020 ⇒ 00:45:48.180 Amber Lin: I was thinking.
279 00:45:48.180 ⇒ 00:45:48.719 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I know.
280 00:45:48.720 ⇒ 00:45:58.110 Amber Lin: We can have a work backwards process of when we start the sprint planning, we write out essentially.
281 00:45:58.440 ⇒ 00:46:17.690 Amber Lin: If we were to present to the stakeholders. When this sprint is done, what we? What would we have said? And that would have, because when we present to them we will always talk about the outcomes right, and then I think it will be really helpful to have that in our process, to have it even before we begin the sprint.
282 00:46:21.650 ⇒ 00:46:27.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. I mean, ideally, part of maybe the 1st 2 weeks is to start working on that
283 00:46:27.530 ⇒ 00:46:38.470 Uttam Kumaran: 1st like project, update or business review like upfront, you know.
284 00:46:41.360 ⇒ 00:46:45.890 Uttam Kumaran: I think on a monthly basis, like a business review, is fair, you know.
285 00:46:46.860 ⇒ 00:46:52.600 Uttam Kumaran: should be a deck. We can include other people from the company that maybe not. They don’t work directly with us.
286 00:46:52.760 ⇒ 00:46:54.620 Uttam Kumaran: and we could share all that.
287 00:47:02.420 ⇒ 00:47:09.760 Amber Lin: Yeah, okay, wrote that down. In the previous section to start preparing project on business review.
288 00:47:14.230 ⇒ 00:47:20.189 Amber Lin: Okay, and also, oh, it’s everything.
289 00:47:20.860 ⇒ 00:47:26.490 Amber Lin: Okay, William, do you want to go through your comments here.
290 00:47:28.320 ⇒ 00:47:38.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. So yeah. So one is like our goal for our tickets is accuracy.
291 00:47:38.620 ⇒ 00:47:44.340 Uttam Kumaran: like, we want to deliver things when we say we’re gonna deliver them, which we don’t have this problem thankfully.
292 00:47:44.460 ⇒ 00:47:51.439 Uttam Kumaran: But this is common in consulting where people just are like, oh, we have a hundred 1,000 things, and nothing gets done. And there’s like.
293 00:47:52.130 ⇒ 00:47:59.549 Uttam Kumaran: this is where, like we really, I think we want to buy sort of getting stuff done, which that itself is hard enough
294 00:47:59.770 ⇒ 00:48:03.690 Uttam Kumaran: versus like, sort of like showing off.
295 00:48:03.910 ⇒ 00:48:09.430 Uttam Kumaran: So this is gonna be something that like, we’ll have to constantly remind ourselves.
296 00:48:11.310 ⇒ 00:48:20.380 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I I sort of like also want to add to the Pm responsibility. Or like, we need to have some method for like, basically during retro
297 00:48:20.510 ⇒ 00:48:29.140 Uttam Kumaran: or something, we need to look at like how many tickets are getting done? Are they getting done on time? Have some measurement of like? Are we allocating properly?
298 00:48:31.640 ⇒ 00:48:36.170 Uttam Kumaran: I also said that the tech lead should own assignments of tickets.
299 00:48:36.550 ⇒ 00:48:46.139 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. I don’t think like we need to be too democratic in that right now. I think everybody’s pretty open to take, taking whatever as long as they can get it done.
300 00:48:46.270 ⇒ 00:48:49.440 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s that will save us some time in
301 00:48:49.820 ⇒ 00:48:52.350 Uttam Kumaran: sprint planning. If we just pre assign a lot of stuff.
302 00:48:52.350 ⇒ 00:49:02.239 Amber Lin: Great. Yes, please, because I don’t want to ask a meeting. Oh, hey, can you? Can you take this? Maybe? Can you take that it’ll be great if you just decide.
303 00:49:02.240 ⇒ 00:49:02.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
304 00:49:02.860 ⇒ 00:49:05.249 Amber Lin: Say, Hey, everyone! This is what it is.
305 00:49:05.250 ⇒ 00:49:07.832 Uttam Kumaran: And maybe it’d be helpful you could. You can.
306 00:49:08.960 ⇒ 00:49:27.100 Uttam Kumaran: You can watch how how I’m running. Some of the AI meetings is I just I assign first.st So I I do all the assignments, and then I come back at the end. I look at the workload across everybody, and then I can make adjustments. But everybody on the team should be able to do every ticket
307 00:49:27.350 ⇒ 00:49:31.870 Uttam Kumaran: right. And I I think that’s that’s what we want to go towards is that
308 00:49:32.150 ⇒ 00:49:40.079 Uttam Kumaran: like I feel like we, we don’t want there to be such like. Oh, this person can only do this stuff. But I assigned 1st like, I don’t ask.
309 00:49:40.420 ⇒ 00:49:48.869 Uttam Kumaran: I know what people want to work on. I know what people are good at, but like ultimately, I need, we need to make sure that people are occupied. And so I look at
310 00:49:49.080 ⇒ 00:50:07.889 Uttam Kumaran: 1st I do the assignments, and in the beginning there’s maybe some discussion. But I also like I’m not like. None of the work is like super boring or anything. So I I do the assignments first, st and then I what my reflection is on. I just go look at what is the capacity of everybody, and then I make adjustments.
311 00:50:09.120 ⇒ 00:50:12.830 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where the tech lead, I think, should just do the assignments ahead of time.
312 00:50:13.610 ⇒ 00:50:19.090 Uttam Kumaran: and your your conversations can be more about the tickets than about assignments.
313 00:50:20.250 ⇒ 00:50:26.750 Amber Lin: So this sounds to me like we need a separate quick meeting before the planning that involves.
314 00:50:26.750 ⇒ 00:50:27.959 Uttam Kumaran: Do this in grooming.
315 00:50:29.533 ⇒ 00:50:30.226 Amber Lin: Okay.
316 00:50:30.920 ⇒ 00:50:36.790 Uttam Kumaran: Typically in sprint, typically like in grooming. You’re not really supposed to do assignments.
317 00:50:36.970 ⇒ 00:50:39.720 Uttam Kumaran: However, you should just probably do it there
318 00:50:40.260 ⇒ 00:50:45.140 Uttam Kumaran: and like it doesn’t matter cause. And then in spring kickoff.
319 00:50:45.300 ⇒ 00:50:53.880 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve we’ve combined kickoff and planning. Typically, those are 2 separate meetings, and that you can just say like, this is what we’re planning on accomplishing the sprint.
320 00:50:54.190 ⇒ 00:50:56.999 Uttam Kumaran: Take a look at your tickets, let’s walk through them.
321 00:50:58.660 ⇒ 00:51:02.510 Uttam Kumaran: and like that meeting could be making adjustments, not like planning everything out.
322 00:51:03.110 ⇒ 00:51:05.829 Uttam Kumaran: So pack as much as you can into grooming.
323 00:51:06.575 ⇒ 00:51:13.449 Uttam Kumaran: In terms of ad hoc, yeah, I said, this like could be 20 to 40% depending on the client and depending on like the type of team.
324 00:51:15.140 ⇒ 00:51:18.090 Uttam Kumaran: This is how it goes in data. I feel like.
325 00:51:22.012 ⇒ 00:51:26.260 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, in terms of us assigning too much work.
326 00:51:26.850 ⇒ 00:51:35.059 Uttam Kumaran: I I mainly said that everything needs an internal reviewer and external review, and then somehow, it needs to get shipped to somebody
327 00:51:36.740 ⇒ 00:51:52.949 Uttam Kumaran: on the marketing and AI team. I think we’re doing this pretty well where I have. I I’m typically me or another designer or engineer is the is the reviewer, and then it goes to a step called Client Review.
328 00:51:53.050 ⇒ 00:52:10.359 Uttam Kumaran: where I get feedback from either on the ad team. It’s either whoever the automation is for or on the marketing team. It’s whoever we’re designing for, like it may be a partner, or maybe it’s Robert, or maybe someone else, and then it moves. Then it moves to done, and something gets shipped, meaning like
329 00:52:10.530 ⇒ 00:52:20.379 Uttam Kumaran: an image gets added to Google drive, or like a video gets uploaded or an automate like a met a loom record loom video is recorded about how to use the feature.
330 00:52:20.520 ⇒ 00:52:23.789 Uttam Kumaran: So I really require that there are those steps
331 00:52:23.940 ⇒ 00:52:27.839 Uttam Kumaran: because the internal person needs to take the 1st pass.
332 00:52:27.990 ⇒ 00:52:39.919 Uttam Kumaran: Then someone who’s like more friendly needs to take a pass, and then it needs to go wherever it needs to go like things can’t just die. Things don’t. If things just die with a ticket like are like, Oh, cool tickets done.
333 00:52:40.110 ⇒ 00:52:44.929 Uttam Kumaran: then it’s like nobody even knows that we did that work, you know.
334 00:52:44.930 ⇒ 00:52:45.420 Amber Lin: Oh, you’re.
335 00:52:45.420 ⇒ 00:52:45.899 Uttam Kumaran: And this is.
336 00:52:45.900 ⇒ 00:52:49.060 Amber Lin: About once this, the ticket is complete.
337 00:52:49.690 ⇒ 00:52:56.329 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But also this is again, this is an opportunity for the Pm. To send a message saying, Hey, we just got this done
338 00:52:56.560 ⇒ 00:53:01.120 Uttam Kumaran: right. So there’s all these ways to kind of manufacture the communication.
339 00:53:01.540 ⇒ 00:53:08.449 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess what I’m saying is like we do a lot of work for clients that goes unheard and unrepre and unrecognized.
340 00:53:09.232 ⇒ 00:53:14.880 Uttam Kumaran: For no reason like for absolutely no reason, just because we just don’t communicate it out loud.
341 00:53:17.450 ⇒ 00:53:21.640 Demilade Agboola: Also, how do we communicate like on?
342 00:53:21.990 ⇒ 00:53:37.139 Demilade Agboola: I’ll call them subtasks so like it’s not the final product, but it was a ticket that leads up to the final product. Do we communicate it as a like, hey, we’re about 20% on on the way to the final product. Or do we just talk about the subtask
343 00:53:37.250 ⇒ 00:53:39.199 Demilade Agboola: that was was that was competed.
344 00:53:42.280 ⇒ 00:53:47.040 Uttam Kumaran: So I think this. So there’s always gonna be like a couple of like
345 00:53:48.100 ⇒ 00:53:51.210 Uttam Kumaran: like golden things, right? Like actual like
346 00:53:51.640 ⇒ 00:54:00.949 Uttam Kumaran: scores in the net. There’s also going to be a bunch of background stuff that we’re doing the background stuff. I think we should cover in the weekly or bi-weekly update
347 00:54:02.960 ⇒ 00:54:08.949 Uttam Kumaran: right like or whatever like. For example, I’ve been starting to send slack. I’ve been starting to send cycle updates in slack.
348 00:54:09.100 ⇒ 00:54:12.850 Uttam Kumaran: There’s an above the fold and a below the fold being above the fold is like.
349 00:54:13.210 ⇒ 00:54:15.650 Uttam Kumaran: here are the 3 big things that we did.
350 00:54:15.830 ⇒ 00:54:17.440 Uttam Kumaran: Bottom of the fold is like.
351 00:54:17.710 ⇒ 00:54:19.480 Uttam Kumaran: and we did a bunch of other stuff
352 00:54:19.730 ⇒ 00:54:22.717 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like, for example, if you’ve seen like a
353 00:54:23.170 ⇒ 00:54:26.290 Uttam Kumaran: if you’ve seen like a change log from a software company.
354 00:54:26.530 ⇒ 00:54:31.709 Uttam Kumaran: they’re gonna say, like, we got this done, we got this, and then we got this done, and then we fix like a hundred bugs.
355 00:54:32.420 ⇒ 00:54:36.100 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what we should do my opinion.
356 00:54:38.660 ⇒ 00:54:42.970 Uttam Kumaran: cause there’s because otherwise we’re gonna start staff adding, basically.
357 00:54:46.970 ⇒ 00:54:57.669 Demilade Agboola: Fair enough. Fair enough. I I think. Yeah, we should definitely try and communicate as much as like what we do. So our clients are never lost on like what we’re what we’re currently working on.
358 00:54:59.820 ⇒ 00:55:05.400 Demilade Agboola: I also feel like, you know, when we have our tickets assigned.
359 00:55:05.650 ⇒ 00:55:06.520 Demilade Agboola: It’s.
360 00:55:08.170 ⇒ 00:55:21.290 Demilade Agboola: I think, yeah, like, kind of like what I said earlier about the whole sprint planning thing. We should just always know, like what our final outcomes are. And if we can always try and assign them to like, you know, a dollar amount or a business value, or like
361 00:55:21.470 ⇒ 00:55:25.030 Demilade Agboola: a business use case that is now much easier.
362 00:55:26.620 ⇒ 00:55:35.509 Demilade Agboola: I think we should always try and just communicate that. So that whichever stakeholder sees it can always know that, like there’s always been progress. There’s always progress being made.
363 00:55:36.370 ⇒ 00:55:45.220 Uttam Kumaran: I agree? Yeah, like I, we have to eliminate the are these guys doing anything question which is always gonna be asked. By the way, like.
364 00:55:45.400 ⇒ 00:55:54.620 Uttam Kumaran: I was just talking to someone yesterday at this event, like someone is going to be looking at the financials. And their company is going to say, what are these consultants doing?
365 00:55:54.810 ⇒ 00:55:58.780 Uttam Kumaran: And if in that moment no one can answer.
366 00:55:59.140 ⇒ 00:56:00.969 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a chance. We get chopped.
367 00:56:02.240 ⇒ 00:56:05.350 Amber Lin: Yes, so we should always just put it in there.
368 00:56:05.350 ⇒ 00:56:11.529 Uttam Kumaran: Or at least I’m gonna get a phone call and be like, Yo, what’s going on? And then, yeah, right? So
369 00:56:11.730 ⇒ 00:56:12.770 Uttam Kumaran: we want to just eliminate.
370 00:56:12.770 ⇒ 00:56:13.780 Amber Lin: Have to do eventually.
371 00:56:13.780 ⇒ 00:56:24.560 Uttam Kumaran: The Maslow’s hierarchy of like questions like, Are they doing anything? Well, how is getting an roi like those are basic things we gotta hammer home, you know.
372 00:56:26.670 ⇒ 00:56:28.370 Amber Lin: Won’t there be no doubt?
373 00:56:29.090 ⇒ 00:56:37.640 Amber Lin: Yeah, I, I want this, if this is possible to also be in the section in tickets, right, now our tickets. The minimum
374 00:56:38.092 ⇒ 00:56:48.729 Amber Lin: structure is that we have a goal and we have acceptance criteria. I generally, I try to also add a Y, but we can convert that section into business impact. And we can just.
375 00:56:48.730 ⇒ 00:56:49.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
376 00:56:49.150 ⇒ 00:56:55.889 Amber Lin: We can think about how much we can squeeze in. There’s some of the tickets. It’s not going to be that tangible, but.
377 00:56:55.890 ⇒ 00:56:58.869 Uttam Kumaran: Should indicate whether this is a small or big thing.
378 00:56:59.490 ⇒ 00:57:05.240 Uttam Kumaran: and then I think you should do a business impact. And at least you could just write something there, right? Just try it.
379 00:57:05.350 ⇒ 00:57:07.220 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s helpful. I like that.
380 00:57:08.150 ⇒ 00:57:09.040 Amber Lin: Yeah. Great.
381 00:57:10.500 ⇒ 00:57:11.990 Demilade Agboola: Add to all that.
382 00:57:23.330 ⇒ 00:57:24.050 Amber Lin: Yeah.
383 00:57:24.910 ⇒ 00:57:35.852 Amber Lin: that will make us talking about business impact a lot easier. And then I, I really like the examples you gave and how we talk about business impact, and I will be asking for your help as well.
384 00:57:36.320 ⇒ 00:57:43.580 Amber Lin: to write them, especially when it’s more related to some technical things that we’re going to be doing.
385 00:57:44.940 ⇒ 00:57:45.519 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I mean.
386 00:57:45.520 ⇒ 00:57:53.410 Demilade Agboola: here, I’m here. Even on products I’m not on. If it’s all about like communicating business impact. That’s something I’ve like done in the past, and just.
387 00:57:53.670 ⇒ 00:57:54.170 Amber Lin: Okay.
388 00:57:54.170 ⇒ 00:57:58.500 Demilade Agboola: Just being able to convey. What’s the impact of what we’re doing is always very important to me.
389 00:57:59.330 ⇒ 00:58:02.050 Amber Lin: Awesome. That’s a very, very important skill.
390 00:58:02.965 ⇒ 00:58:05.260 Amber Lin: Anything else in
391 00:58:05.550 ⇒ 00:58:15.110 Amber Lin: Section 3, which includes grooming and planning. I know a bit of stuff we talked about is about delivery and client communication. I I wrote the notes down there.
392 00:58:15.953 ⇒ 00:58:18.269 Amber Lin: Anything more in this section.
393 00:58:19.732 ⇒ 00:58:24.990 Uttam Kumaran: I think my only ask is like, we finalize sort of what our ticket format is, cause I need it.
394 00:58:25.370 ⇒ 00:58:26.160 Uttam Kumaran: I work.
395 00:58:26.730 ⇒ 00:58:27.690 Amber Lin: Oh, totally okay.
396 00:58:27.690 ⇒ 00:58:30.690 Uttam Kumaran: So if you can. If if this crew can finalize
397 00:58:30.930 ⇒ 00:58:39.850 Uttam Kumaran: for me the ticket format, the ideal ticket format, the ideal like midweek, sprint update format in slack.
398 00:58:39.850 ⇒ 00:58:40.270 Amber Lin: I’m gonna.
399 00:58:40.270 ⇒ 00:58:45.429 Uttam Kumaran: The ideal mid ideal sprint, update email format.
400 00:58:45.800 ⇒ 00:58:50.189 Uttam Kumaran: I can generate those automatically. And then people can edit and like.
401 00:58:50.690 ⇒ 00:58:54.299 Uttam Kumaran: do that. That would be something I could do for this crew.
402 00:58:55.260 ⇒ 00:58:58.140 Amber Lin: So ticket ticket format.
403 00:59:01.030 ⇒ 00:59:01.540 Uttam Kumaran: I’m losing.
404 00:59:01.540 ⇒ 00:59:02.280 Demilade Agboola: Question.
405 00:59:02.570 ⇒ 00:59:07.829 Uttam Kumaran: Meeting. Just give it to the I’ll. It’ll just post to the team, and then you can edit it and send it. However, you want
406 00:59:09.170 ⇒ 00:59:10.059 Uttam Kumaran: sorry I.
407 00:59:11.120 ⇒ 00:59:18.460 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think one question I did ask is, how do we? How do we manage scoping across multiple
408 00:59:18.830 ⇒ 00:59:19.930 Demilade Agboola: projects?
409 00:59:21.610 ⇒ 00:59:23.470 Demilade Agboola: So like people.
410 00:59:23.780 ⇒ 00:59:29.060 Demilade Agboola: So when we say someone’s workload per like, how are we viewing that if there are potentially.
411 00:59:29.060 ⇒ 00:59:29.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
412 00:59:29.610 ⇒ 00:59:30.770 Demilade Agboola: Multiple products.
413 00:59:31.870 ⇒ 00:59:37.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So we we’ve been doing like one meeting a month where we look at everybody’s
414 00:59:37.930 ⇒ 00:59:41.029 Uttam Kumaran: workload. And we’ve been sort of saying, like.
415 00:59:41.270 ⇒ 00:59:47.370 Uttam Kumaran: okay, this person has, you know, whatever the like. 35 h
416 00:59:48.226 ⇒ 00:59:51.059 Uttam Kumaran: it’s split 50, 50, or
417 00:59:52.710 ⇒ 00:59:57.120 Uttam Kumaran: whatever 15 blah blah across these 3 clients.
418 00:59:57.470 ⇒ 01:00:00.860 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think we’re doing that meeting today, if you want to join.
419 01:00:02.000 ⇒ 01:00:07.069 Amber Lin: I don’t think it’s booked yet, but I was planning to look at the allocations. But if you want to join.
420 01:00:07.070 ⇒ 01:00:10.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re we’re trying to do allocations on a monthly basis. Basically.
421 01:00:11.900 ⇒ 01:00:20.060 Demilade Agboola: Oh, okay, I I’m not sure what time it is, because I will be out of office for a bit. But, Jude, let me know if it’s later in the afternoon I’ll definitely be available.
422 01:00:21.560 ⇒ 01:00:25.409 Amber Lin: Do you just wanna do it in the weekly managers meeting.
423 01:00:26.983 ⇒ 01:00:27.850 Uttam Kumaran: Sure. Yeah.
424 01:00:28.365 ⇒ 01:00:32.830 Uttam Kumaran: But let’s see, let’s see what everybody I mean. Let’s wait for that meeting and see whatever.
425 01:00:32.830 ⇒ 01:00:41.300 Amber Lin: Oh, okay, alrighty. So if not that, then probably after the
426 01:00:42.150 ⇒ 01:00:46.349 Amber Lin: urban stems meeting, which I think, Demo, that you’re out of office for
427 01:00:46.700 ⇒ 01:00:52.339 Amber Lin: oh, gosh! Devil! And Kyle is out of office for the urban stems. Readjust the timeline.
428 01:00:52.840 ⇒ 01:01:01.339 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. The she just sent emily just sent a a link that the meeting their internal team meeting is about to start the planning team.
429 01:01:01.780 ⇒ 01:01:03.559 Demilade Agboola: and she’ll like to see.
430 01:01:04.400 ⇒ 01:01:07.049 Amber Lin: Okay. I think both of you have to hop.
431 01:01:07.640 ⇒ 01:01:09.970 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think I’ll just hop to see what’s happening.
432 01:01:10.440 ⇒ 01:01:11.690 Amber Lin: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.
433 01:01:12.140 ⇒ 01:01:14.150 Amber Lin: Okay, have a AI team stand up.
434 01:01:14.150 ⇒ 01:01:21.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I, I wanna just talk about urban stems like, I just wanna make sure, because there hasn’t been a lot of noise in the Channel.
435 01:01:21.650 ⇒ 01:01:28.200 Uttam Kumaran: So I just wanna make sure that, like we’re still good, like, we feel clear on what everything that’s going on.
436 01:01:28.890 ⇒ 01:01:31.799 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t talk to Alex or Zack this week.
437 01:01:32.505 ⇒ 01:01:39.799 Amber Lin: I feel clear. I think we do need to talk to Alex and Zack just to make sure they’re up to pace. But then a lot of how do you feel?
438 01:01:40.710 ⇒ 01:01:42.538 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I feel good. I feel like,
439 01:01:42.960 ⇒ 01:01:50.073 Demilade Agboola: things are really gonna explode next week. I think this week has been a lot of like auditing and trying to get out
440 01:01:51.740 ⇒ 01:01:56.330 Demilade Agboola: plans, and how we want to move forward for like next week, we will definitely have no license
441 01:01:56.470 ⇒ 01:02:01.999 Demilade Agboola: results driven or results focused action.
442 01:02:02.674 ⇒ 01:02:05.339 Demilade Agboola: But yeah, there was just like a bunch of audits in this week.
443 01:02:06.510 ⇒ 01:02:11.570 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, just loop me in if you need me. But yeah, I think what we have sprint.
444 01:02:11.800 ⇒ 01:02:17.100 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna do the 1st like we’re gonna do retro on Monday and then kick off on Tuesday right.
445 01:02:17.100 ⇒ 01:02:23.849 Amber Lin: Great. Yeah, I wanna make sure that Alex and Zack is there. Let me invite Alex to the screen.
446 01:02:28.460 ⇒ 01:02:29.070 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
447 01:02:29.290 ⇒ 01:02:29.760 Demilade Agboola: No, I think.
448 01:02:30.600 ⇒ 01:02:31.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Go ahead.
449 01:02:38.410 ⇒ 01:02:39.319 Demilade Agboola: Can you hear me?
450 01:02:40.110 ⇒ 01:02:41.030 Uttam Kumaran: I can hear you. Yeah.
451 01:02:41.030 ⇒ 01:02:42.879 Amber Lin: Sorry. Can you repeat that.
452 01:02:43.810 ⇒ 01:02:47.299 Demilade Agboola: I also was about to say something, so I wanted to hear that before I talked.
453 01:02:48.100 ⇒ 01:02:56.049 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no, no, I’m not. Gonna go ahead. I was just saying, make sure to make sure to invite them, because they haven’t been able to meet this week, so just make sure they’re they’re free.
454 01:02:57.770 ⇒ 01:03:08.790 Amber Lin: Okay, yeah, when we booked it, it should be in times that they’re free. Okay, you guys have to hop. I am gonna go talk to Mustafa and sync him on ABC.
455 01:03:09.810 ⇒ 01:03:13.060 Amber Lin: Oh, he’s in the meeting. Maybe I should join the AI meeting.
456 01:03:13.800 ⇒ 01:03:16.970 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? You can join the AI meeting, and then we can talk about that.
457 01:03:17.150 ⇒ 01:03:19.480 Amber Lin: Okay, great bye, bye, guys, see you there.