Meeting Title: PM x Techlead meet Date: 2025-06-03 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Fireflies.ai Notetaker Awaish, Awaish Kumar, Amber Lin, Demilade Agboola
WEBVTT
1 00:02:37.940 ⇒ 00:02:38.650 Awaish Kumar: How many.
2 00:02:40.570 ⇒ 00:02:41.560 Amber Lin: Hello!
3 00:02:45.100 ⇒ 00:02:46.000 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
4 00:02:48.820 ⇒ 00:02:57.873 Amber Lin: Oh, give me one second. I am asking Gpt. To give me agenda
5 00:02:58.740 ⇒ 00:03:01.420 Amber Lin: or anything that you guys want to bring up first.st
6 00:03:08.290 ⇒ 00:03:10.260 Awaish Kumar: I have shared this Doc.
7 00:03:11.020 ⇒ 00:03:14.520 Amber Lin: Oh, awesome in.
8 00:03:15.340 ⇒ 00:03:20.730 Amber Lin: Oh, got it, John Johnson?
9 00:03:31.430 ⇒ 00:03:32.260 Amber Lin: Hmm.
10 00:03:40.070 ⇒ 00:03:46.180 Amber Lin: yeah. Let me just put the questions on the end.
11 00:03:53.840 ⇒ 00:03:57.879 Amber Lin: I mean, I wish if you have something here already which is great. Do you wanna
12 00:03:58.538 ⇒ 00:04:02.419 Amber Lin: point to any points we want to discuss first.st
13 00:04:03.880 ⇒ 00:04:12.240 Awaish Kumar: Like, I like nothing specific. I just wanted that. We have a clear but like like the
14 00:04:12.840 ⇒ 00:04:21.600 Awaish Kumar: the line between the the responsibilities, the ownership of what the team lead is going to do and what the Pm. Is going to do.
15 00:04:22.029 ⇒ 00:04:22.809 Awaish Kumar: Project.
16 00:04:23.159 ⇒ 00:04:28.719 Amber Lin: Yeah. And for me, most importantly, it’s more of where do I start asking for help?
17 00:04:30.407 ⇒ 00:04:38.139 Amber Lin: And where do I start protecting your time? And versus I can deal with this versus that you can say I can deal with this.
18 00:04:40.229 ⇒ 00:04:41.959 Amber Lin: Let me see.
19 00:04:45.399 ⇒ 00:04:47.109 Amber Lin: Communication.
20 00:04:49.159 ⇒ 00:04:51.559 Amber Lin: I’m checking this document.
21 00:04:51.939 ⇒ 00:04:53.749 Amber Lin: Leadership prioritization.
22 00:04:54.809 ⇒ 00:04:59.499 Amber Lin: Okay, looking at number 3, communication expectations.
23 00:04:59.889 ⇒ 00:05:03.499 Amber Lin: So planning spring kickoff, we do it together. Grooming
24 00:05:03.609 ⇒ 00:05:06.809 Amber Lin: great. We do that. Architecture reviews.
25 00:05:06.919 ⇒ 00:05:11.489 Amber Lin: Okay? Understood. That’s awesome incident reviews.
26 00:05:12.799 ⇒ 00:05:17.480 Amber Lin: What? What do you mean? Incidents like really terror.
27 00:05:17.480 ⇒ 00:05:18.980 Awaish Kumar: Something fails right.
28 00:05:20.012 ⇒ 00:05:21.340 Awaish Kumar: The urgent requests.
29 00:05:25.670 ⇒ 00:05:26.570 Amber Lin: Great.
30 00:05:27.570 ⇒ 00:05:43.939 Amber Lin: So, for instance, later on I have a matter more meeting that I invited you. That would be a customer feedback loop, I assume so. You can. Just. You can just sit there. You can just listen to it. You don’t have to attend. It’ll be great if you’re there, but they’ll help you give me some context.
31 00:05:46.820 ⇒ 00:05:48.450 Uttam Kumaran: Wait. Where? Where are you guys in the in the.
32 00:05:48.450 ⇒ 00:05:50.500 Amber Lin: We’re we’re in Number 3.
33 00:05:51.830 ⇒ 00:05:53.030 Amber Lin: I wanted to start with.
34 00:05:53.030 ⇒ 00:05:54.900 Uttam Kumaran: Customer and stakeholder.
35 00:05:54.900 ⇒ 00:06:01.489 Amber Lin: Or in or in communication expectations. The document is called Pm, technically collaborate.
36 00:06:01.490 ⇒ 00:06:05.420 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m in the document. I just didn’t know where in the doc. Okay, so communication. Okay.
37 00:06:05.420 ⇒ 00:06:06.010 Amber Lin: Yeah.
38 00:06:11.170 ⇒ 00:06:15.529 Awaish Kumar: So it’s in the top ownership areas. And the 1st table says on number 3.
39 00:06:16.410 ⇒ 00:06:19.639 Uttam Kumaran: Wait. We’re all, and we’re all clear what we’re talking about, right? So.
40 00:06:19.640 ⇒ 00:06:21.089 Amber Lin: Share my screen. Let me share my screen.
41 00:06:21.090 ⇒ 00:06:24.430 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I just. I just want to set the scene before we jump into this. So.
42 00:06:24.850 ⇒ 00:06:31.245 Uttam Kumaran: I suppose demolotti’s here. So I wanted to talk about. Can you go to the
43 00:06:33.760 ⇒ 00:06:37.187 Uttam Kumaran: Is this in clients? I don’t know. Where is this?
44 00:06:37.530 ⇒ 00:06:40.550 Amber Lin: This is in homepage, it seems.
45 00:06:40.670 ⇒ 00:06:42.669 Uttam Kumaran: No, just hold on one second.
46 00:07:00.920 ⇒ 00:07:09.780 Uttam Kumaran: you know. Where were we working on? Sort of the oh, it’s probably I see. Okay.
47 00:07:10.930 ⇒ 00:07:12.770 Amber Lin: Was that the talk we had with Miguel.
48 00:07:13.571 ⇒ 00:07:15.378 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m just going to.
49 00:07:16.160 ⇒ 00:07:18.450 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just gonna send one thing here.
50 00:07:18.640 ⇒ 00:07:19.300 Amber Lin: Hmm.
51 00:07:27.860 ⇒ 00:07:28.530 Uttam Kumaran: And then.
52 00:07:28.530 ⇒ 00:07:30.039 Awaish Kumar: Are you looking for the table.
53 00:07:30.440 ⇒ 00:07:33.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m just gonna put it at the top for now.
54 00:07:33.150 ⇒ 00:07:36.689 Uttam Kumaran: But I just want to set the scene before we just jump into things. So one is.
55 00:07:36.690 ⇒ 00:07:37.210 Amber Lin: Hmm.
56 00:07:37.210 ⇒ 00:07:53.310 Uttam Kumaran: We’re trying to arrive at a good set of expectations for each team member. I think we’re really clear on what individual engineer does on the team. I think more of what my concern was. It’s not clear what where the Pm. Job starts and stops where the
57 00:07:53.821 ⇒ 00:07:59.279 Uttam Kumaran: sort of like account, owner, Job starts and stops, and where, like the technical lead
58 00:07:59.410 ⇒ 00:08:04.630 Uttam Kumaran: job starts and stops. So for all of our clients, it’s 1 of this crew.
59 00:08:04.750 ⇒ 00:08:14.007 Uttam Kumaran: For the most part, except for for Eden. And Robert is sort of leading some stuff there, right? And I’ve also included in that screenshot internal teams where I’m I’m sort of project managing.
60 00:08:14.280 ⇒ 00:08:14.610 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sorry.
61 00:08:14.610 ⇒ 00:08:20.860 Uttam Kumaran: So our goal for today is the one for this crew to agree on what each
62 00:08:21.120 ⇒ 00:08:37.499 Uttam Kumaran: person is taking on. And this includes the account owner. Right account owner, you can consider, like the lead salesperson. Basically, that person is gonna be in charge of like renewals. That person’s gonna be in charge of handing, like, basically establishing the actual delivery team.
63 00:08:38.115 ⇒ 00:08:39.600 Uttam Kumaran: And of course.
64 00:08:39.770 ⇒ 00:08:47.099 Uttam Kumaran: you guys know, there’s there’s some like other writing we need on like, what’s being just like in those meetings and help smoothing things out
65 00:08:47.590 ⇒ 00:09:01.689 Uttam Kumaran: stuff like that. It’s almost like this, like sort of a managing director role. But there is technical lead and project manager. So today we can just talk about Pm and tech lead probably needs something around the account owner as well. But I think that’s probably what I wanted to
66 00:09:02.670 ⇒ 00:09:04.130 Uttam Kumaran: to sort of start with.
67 00:09:06.780 ⇒ 00:09:17.889 Amber Lin: Great what we have, or at least on this table. We have a pretty clearly outlined for our current
68 00:09:18.430 ⇒ 00:09:24.410 Amber Lin: client teams, which was taking on taking on most away. She’s taking on 2, and then logically taking on every instance.
69 00:09:25.420 ⇒ 00:09:29.280 Amber Lin: Great. Thank you. I needed that table. Let me delete this one.
70 00:09:33.240 ⇒ 00:09:33.780 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
71 00:09:35.210 ⇒ 00:09:36.420 Amber Lin: And so.
72 00:09:42.110 ⇒ 00:09:45.260 Amber Lin: hmm, is there
73 00:09:45.610 ⇒ 00:09:51.850 Amber Lin: just based on this distribution of workload? Is is there anything we want to change? Do you want to.
74 00:09:53.006 ⇒ 00:09:57.460 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t wanna talk about. I wanna talk about the document. Now. I don’t wanna.
75 00:09:57.460 ⇒ 00:09:58.360 Amber Lin: Okay. Okay.
76 00:09:58.360 ⇒ 00:10:06.160 Uttam Kumaran: The way the table is set up is the way it’s set up, like, I think this is accurate for what the situation is right now. But I want this meeting to be focused on
77 00:10:06.320 ⇒ 00:10:08.769 Uttam Kumaran: what each person is doing. So.
78 00:10:08.770 ⇒ 00:10:09.750 Amber Lin: Okay. Sounds good.
79 00:10:09.750 ⇒ 00:10:10.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
80 00:10:10.380 ⇒ 00:10:11.459 Amber Lin: We can start now.
81 00:10:11.610 ⇒ 00:10:12.400 Amber Lin: Think
82 00:10:17.590 ⇒ 00:10:18.909 Uttam Kumaran: Do we want it? Do we? Do we want.
83 00:10:18.910 ⇒ 00:10:19.300 Amber Lin: And to.
84 00:10:19.300 ⇒ 00:10:24.709 Uttam Kumaran: Like. I think we either we can take like a few minutes, and each of us read and add comments.
85 00:10:26.150 ⇒ 00:10:28.529 Uttam Kumaran: or we go through this together.
86 00:10:28.780 ⇒ 00:10:43.780 Amber Lin: Sure. Let’s read together to just get a sense of what we’re even talking about. There’s some questions down there. If we want to think about. You can highlight which one you think is important that we talk about, and then I’ll set a timer, and then we’ll come back.
87 00:10:44.550 ⇒ 00:10:45.130 Amber Lin: So.
88 00:10:45.130 ⇒ 00:10:54.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think if we can take yeah. So it’s good that there’s just like what? Who owns what I like this decision making authority, because it’s it’s almost like this is like an accountability thing.
89 00:10:56.580 ⇒ 00:11:06.090 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like, who makes decisions on what I think there is a clear like communication expectations, especially the most important to me, are when the client is in the meeting
90 00:11:06.420 ⇒ 00:11:10.070 Uttam Kumaran: like who is doing the talking and who is driving things forward.
91 00:11:11.051 ⇒ 00:11:17.160 Uttam Kumaran: And then yes, I want to talk about like, do some sort of red flags or sort of scenarios.
92 00:11:17.500 ⇒ 00:11:20.720 Uttam Kumaran: sort of like where we see this breaking down?
93 00:11:22.390 ⇒ 00:11:29.549 Uttam Kumaran: But I’d I’d I’d love to just maybe just take a like, how much time do we have for this meeting like? Yeah, maybe we could just take like.
94 00:11:29.850 ⇒ 00:11:34.119 Uttam Kumaran: like, 3, 4 min. Just leave comments, and then
95 00:11:34.510 ⇒ 00:11:37.959 Uttam Kumaran: we can come back and then just talk through them.
96 00:11:38.680 ⇒ 00:11:39.210 Amber Lin: Great.
97 00:11:39.740 ⇒ 00:11:40.689 Uttam Kumaran: That go for everybody.
98 00:11:41.630 ⇒ 00:11:45.510 Amber Lin: Okay. Also, the timer will come back in 3 to 4 min.
99 00:11:45.510 ⇒ 00:11:46.040 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
100 00:11:46.270 ⇒ 00:11:51.559 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, probably for future meetings. We could do that ahead of time. But I think it just gives each of us time to just like comment.
101 00:11:53.050 ⇒ 00:11:55.180 Uttam Kumaran: Otherwise. Yeah, I have a lot of opinions.
102 00:11:55.180 ⇒ 00:11:55.750 Amber Lin: Sure.
103 00:15:03.730 ⇒ 00:15:04.460 Amber Lin: Okay.
104 00:15:47.010 ⇒ 00:15:47.870 Amber Lin: okay.
105 00:15:48.070 ⇒ 00:15:56.020 Amber Lin: let’s come back. It’s been 4 min. If someone else share screen, my screen is acting up and I don’t want to make it take too long.
106 00:15:56.820 ⇒ 00:15:57.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
107 00:16:01.241 ⇒ 00:16:03.249 Uttam Kumaran: if you can still drive, that’d be great.
108 00:16:03.250 ⇒ 00:16:04.260 Amber Lin: Yeah, totally.
109 00:16:16.840 ⇒ 00:16:19.890 Amber Lin: So overall.
110 00:16:20.686 ⇒ 00:16:26.070 Amber Lin: Seems like. Only Utah made comments. I was trying to, but it didn’t. Didn’t go through.
111 00:16:26.370 ⇒ 00:16:27.540 Amber Lin: Oh, okay, great.
112 00:16:28.660 ⇒ 00:16:29.080 Uttam Kumaran: Personal.
113 00:16:29.305 ⇒ 00:16:29.530 Amber Lin: It’s.
114 00:16:29.530 ⇒ 00:16:30.280 Uttam Kumaran: Down here.
115 00:16:30.280 ⇒ 00:16:40.170 Amber Lin: Okay, awesome. Let’s start with not Uta, because Utam has a lot of opinions. And do you want to start first? st
116 00:16:41.423 ⇒ 00:16:45.409 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, sure. So I actually pm, the bill
117 00:16:45.580 ⇒ 00:16:49.400 Demilade Agboola: last week because Robert was out of office, and
118 00:16:49.890 ⇒ 00:16:54.880 Demilade Agboola: it kind of helped me see, like the other side of the
119 00:16:55.370 ⇒ 00:17:02.780 Demilade Agboola: like, technically versus like pm, I think effectively. The Pm’s get a lot of like requests.
120 00:17:03.000 ⇒ 00:17:17.890 Demilade Agboola: And, like the the important thing, I think, for Npm. Is to understand number one, the scope of what is needed. So being able to get the request into like a very digestible form that the tech lead doesn’t have to like go further into
121 00:17:19.930 ⇒ 00:17:24.060 Demilade Agboola: And so the technical action it that’s number one, I think number 2
122 00:17:24.460 ⇒ 00:17:31.329 Demilade Agboola: will be prioritization in terms of what is most important to the business and the end, result or end goal of the business.
123 00:17:31.330 ⇒ 00:17:31.790 Amber Lin: Oh no!
124 00:17:31.790 ⇒ 00:17:35.320 Demilade Agboola: You don’t like allocate resources to something that is like
125 00:17:35.930 ⇒ 00:17:45.109 Demilade Agboola: not does has very like low level in terms of utility. So just being able to like, properly define that will be very important.
126 00:17:46.103 ⇒ 00:17:49.570 Demilade Agboola: And then communicate that to the tech lead.
127 00:17:49.760 ⇒ 00:17:55.890 Demilade Agboola: Who then, actions upon it? I think that would be ideal, a good flow
128 00:17:56.720 ⇒ 00:17:59.650 Demilade Agboola: so effectively, these action in things that are
129 00:17:59.890 ⇒ 00:18:02.760 Demilade Agboola: the most important to the business, and.
130 00:18:02.760 ⇒ 00:18:03.200 Amber Lin: I mean.
131 00:18:03.200 ⇒ 00:18:10.379 Demilade Agboola: Like scoped out so that they don’t constantly have to ask so many questions before they can take the action in it.
132 00:18:10.878 ⇒ 00:18:16.029 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, so that’s kind of like how I I see that like interaction going
133 00:18:16.520 ⇒ 00:18:31.719 Demilade Agboola: obviously, tech lead can either push back on things based on technical difficulty or you know other other things in that line, but as much as possible I would think that there should be a limit to how much
134 00:18:32.720 ⇒ 00:18:39.690 Demilade Agboola: interaction detected has with the clients. I think if you’re interacting too much clients, I think that takes away from your proper
135 00:18:39.890 ⇒ 00:18:44.040 Demilade Agboola: development time or ability to execute basically.
136 00:18:46.350 ⇒ 00:18:49.629 Amber Lin: What do you guys think about this? It sounds valid to me.
137 00:18:50.350 ⇒ 00:18:53.230 Amber Lin: But any any points that we might be missing here.
138 00:18:53.380 ⇒ 00:19:04.860 Amber Lin: so what I hear is that the Pm’s will take the 1st pass on the communications. Essentially, we have different layers, right? The most outer layers facing the client, and so the Pm. Story is like a filter
139 00:19:05.160 ⇒ 00:19:17.400 Amber Lin: when all these taking care of all those external communications and then relaying it between the tech lead and the tech lead only steps up, steps up when necessary, and
140 00:19:17.560 ⇒ 00:19:26.250 Amber Lin: when it actually contributes to solving like a very technical problem the client has. That’s when okay.
141 00:19:26.250 ⇒ 00:19:30.940 Uttam Kumaran: I agree. I think this document reads like, for example, we don’t do ux.
142 00:19:31.740 ⇒ 00:19:34.890 Uttam Kumaran: We don’t do. We don’t do a lot of like.
143 00:19:34.890 ⇒ 00:19:35.500 Amber Lin: I think.
144 00:19:35.500 ⇒ 00:19:36.670 Uttam Kumaran: Billing decisions. We don’t.
145 00:19:36.670 ⇒ 00:19:39.189 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like developer. So one is.
146 00:19:39.190 ⇒ 00:19:42.999 Amber Lin: AI understood it as a product manager, not a project manager.
147 00:19:43.710 ⇒ 00:19:45.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I just think like.
148 00:19:45.820 ⇒ 00:20:01.509 Uttam Kumaran: okay, so, but either way, like, we should rewrite some of this because there’s a lot of stuff about building products that we don’t do. The 1st thing is, I want this to just be like much more clear on, like exactly the project manager is the initial point of contact
149 00:20:01.750 ⇒ 00:20:02.610 Uttam Kumaran: rule.
150 00:20:02.940 ⇒ 00:20:03.340 Amber Lin: Right.
151 00:20:03.340 ⇒ 00:20:07.719 Uttam Kumaran: Like, unless they’re out like, I sort of just want to have these clear rules
152 00:20:07.800 ⇒ 00:20:33.820 Uttam Kumaran: otherwise. And then there’s gonna be clear rules on the other side, right like. For example, if there is a meeting about a technical, for example, let’s say in in a stand up you have a you have a conversation about something you’re like. Okay, we should take this offline in that offline meeting. The tech lead needs to run that right. The project manager, if the project manager comes in and is like, Okay, hey, guys like, what are we talking about? It’s gonna it’s just gonna run very slowly. So that’s an example of like tech lead should be able to execute that.
153 00:20:34.730 ⇒ 00:20:42.269 Uttam Kumaran: You know. So I just had a couple of things. The other thing is like this, this, none of this is really focused on like making the client happy.
154 00:20:42.460 ⇒ 00:20:59.340 Uttam Kumaran: And what the client needs to know from us on, like even like a psychological level. Right? So one is, the tech. Lead is goal is to show that we’re the authority. And like, we’re credible when it comes to any technical decisions. The other thing is like a Pm. Needs to also own like client happiness.
155 00:20:59.510 ⇒ 00:21:03.340 Uttam Kumaran: and like the overall, like delivery health, so.
156 00:21:03.340 ⇒ 00:21:04.530 Amber Lin: Yeah, I, wish.
157 00:21:04.530 ⇒ 00:21:05.190 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of stuff I do.
158 00:21:05.190 ⇒ 00:21:05.570 Amber Lin: Let’s see.
159 00:21:05.570 ⇒ 00:21:06.410 Uttam Kumaran: Here.
160 00:21:06.410 ⇒ 00:21:10.679 Amber Lin: I was reading on a book today, and it’s empathy and competence.
161 00:21:10.900 ⇒ 00:21:22.710 Amber Lin: So it’s especially necessary for the technique to exude our competence. And empathy can be like the Pm. Probably more focused on empathy and a little bit of
162 00:21:23.214 ⇒ 00:21:33.260 Amber Lin: elaborating on our competence. But I think really, when we set those communication guidelines. We need the technique to say, Hey, we are very confident we’re going to solve this issue.
163 00:21:33.410 ⇒ 00:21:35.730 Amber Lin: Even if we don’t know, we’ll figure it out for you.
164 00:21:36.200 ⇒ 00:21:39.939 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think we should delete this section.
165 00:21:40.570 ⇒ 00:21:41.639 Amber Lin: No just go ahead.
166 00:21:42.440 ⇒ 00:21:44.980 Uttam Kumaran: Unless it’s needed. It seemed kind of a little bit vague.
167 00:21:48.120 ⇒ 00:21:51.519 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the other thing is like, I mainly said
168 00:21:52.190 ⇒ 00:21:55.599 Uttam Kumaran: any sort of anything around. How long this is. Gonna take
169 00:21:55.840 ⇒ 00:22:09.239 Uttam Kumaran: what needs to be done to get this unblocked from a technical standpoint and like decisions on scalable solutions, price cost that should go to the tech lead. The Pm. Is the it should own. We need a meeting to do this
170 00:22:09.810 ⇒ 00:22:13.319 Uttam Kumaran: is this in a ticket, and is it the ticket well written out
171 00:22:13.510 ⇒ 00:22:20.760 Uttam Kumaran: right? And then the Pm. Should own telling the client what have we been doing right like.
172 00:22:20.910 ⇒ 00:22:25.439 Uttam Kumaran: though that’s why I want. I want to be very clear and like the tech lead is not gonna own
173 00:22:25.690 ⇒ 00:22:32.919 Uttam Kumaran: is everything we’re doing going towards the same goal. The tech lead is here to say, you have this goal. Here’s how to do it.
174 00:22:33.360 ⇒ 00:22:36.130 Uttam Kumaran: The order of operations. And when we’re gonna get there
175 00:22:36.250 ⇒ 00:22:41.419 Uttam Kumaran: has to be on the project manager. And yeah, look, it’s I think it’s clear that. Yeah, this is just Project manager.
176 00:22:45.850 ⇒ 00:22:50.110 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing is like, I think, with the Pm’s. There also has to be piece of on onboarding.
177 00:22:51.510 ⇒ 00:22:52.010 Uttam Kumaran: Like.
178 00:22:52.010 ⇒ 00:22:54.860 Amber Lin: Let’s add a I’m gonna add a row.
179 00:22:55.230 ⇒ 00:22:59.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, there’s got to be a piece on onboarding and like pre sales potentially
180 00:23:00.516 ⇒ 00:23:03.840 Uttam Kumaran: and like, there may be some involvement from both folks on that.
181 00:23:05.650 ⇒ 00:23:10.610 Uttam Kumaran: I think we should also talk about like what happens like
182 00:23:11.410 ⇒ 00:23:14.940 Uttam Kumaran: when there are issues like, what are the common issues we have and like, what’s the room?
183 00:23:14.940 ⇒ 00:23:17.030 Uttam Kumaran: What’s the game plan? Common issues are like.
184 00:23:17.270 ⇒ 00:23:19.109 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a delay or a block.
185 00:23:19.590 ⇒ 00:23:21.809 Uttam Kumaran: The there’s too many priorities
186 00:23:22.438 ⇒ 00:23:27.529 Uttam Kumaran: or the we’re never. We haven’t been hitting timelines. We’re not getting time with the client
187 00:23:28.420 ⇒ 00:23:31.529 Uttam Kumaran: to talk about like who who does? What in that situation.
188 00:23:33.850 ⇒ 00:23:34.570 Amber Lin: Great.
189 00:23:36.470 ⇒ 00:23:40.410 Uttam Kumaran: And we don’t have to get all this done. But I just sort of want to put all the ideas out there right now.
190 00:23:40.410 ⇒ 00:23:41.170 Amber Lin: Yeah, yeah.
191 00:23:41.170 ⇒ 00:23:42.149 Uttam Kumaran: Meeting, but like.
192 00:23:42.850 ⇒ 00:23:47.600 Amber Lin: For example, like I read this like topic, and who drives it, and there’s too many Tl, and Pm.
193 00:23:47.960 ⇒ 00:23:55.619 Uttam Kumaran: Where I don’t think we have enough. We don’t have enough bandwidth for have both people involved and everything. There’s got to be a level of trust
194 00:23:55.980 ⇒ 00:24:00.530 Uttam Kumaran: that, like a Pm. Can lead planning a kickoff.
195 00:24:00.840 ⇒ 00:24:03.240 Uttam Kumaran: But a tech lead and a Pm. Have to be a grooming.
196 00:24:03.580 ⇒ 00:24:05.990 Uttam Kumaran: and the tech lead has to lead architecture review.
197 00:24:07.320 ⇒ 00:24:12.510 Uttam Kumaran: right? So I sort of see it like this.
198 00:24:14.930 ⇒ 00:24:19.360 Uttam Kumaran: And we don’t really do. I mean, we’re not doing like a lot of instant reviews, honestly
199 00:24:20.250 ⇒ 00:24:21.229 Uttam Kumaran: or, okay, that’s fine.
200 00:24:23.610 ⇒ 00:24:26.540 Amber Lin: Let’s see, I’m.
201 00:24:26.540 ⇒ 00:24:28.840 Awaish Kumar: We do get escalations.
202 00:24:29.330 ⇒ 00:24:35.219 Uttam Kumaran: We do get escalations. Yeah. But like we should talk about when an escalation happens
203 00:24:36.150 ⇒ 00:24:37.939 Uttam Kumaran: that should go to the Pm. First.st
204 00:24:38.880 ⇒ 00:24:43.040 Uttam Kumaran: Right? This this is where I want to be very clear, like, when an escalation happens.
205 00:24:43.220 ⇒ 00:24:46.120 Uttam Kumaran: go to the Pm. The Pm. Has to work to triage.
206 00:24:47.650 ⇒ 00:24:51.769 Amber Lin: Yeah. So escalations from both the client and our team members.
207 00:24:52.120 ⇒ 00:24:52.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
208 00:24:55.898 ⇒ 00:25:06.369 Amber Lin: Where do we put that escalations go to? Pm, first? st
209 00:25:10.730 ⇒ 00:25:12.300 Amber Lin: Oh.
210 00:25:21.810 ⇒ 00:25:22.620 Amber Lin: so
211 00:25:22.860 ⇒ 00:25:32.730 Amber Lin: really, if we draw out the visual representation of our organization, so should tech lead essentially, be outside, almost outside, lurking
212 00:25:35.520 ⇒ 00:25:38.590 Amber Lin: in the project team outside of the project team.
213 00:25:38.590 ⇒ 00:25:39.649 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, no, no.
214 00:25:39.650 ⇒ 00:25:41.090 Amber Lin: Okay, so these
215 00:25:41.570 ⇒ 00:25:49.179 Uttam Kumaran: The tech lead owns how long something is gonna take and and confirms what is gonna be done.
216 00:25:49.560 ⇒ 00:25:50.610 Amber Lin: Right.
217 00:25:50.830 ⇒ 00:25:53.170 Uttam Kumaran: The Pm. Owns like.
218 00:25:53.850 ⇒ 00:25:58.929 Uttam Kumaran: what are the updates to it? And then what? What’s blocking it? And then what do we need to do to get it unblocked?
219 00:25:59.880 ⇒ 00:26:07.330 Uttam Kumaran: Right. So the tech lead is a core part of the team and the tech leads also taking on work. But the tech lead is also reviewing Prs.
220 00:26:08.940 ⇒ 00:26:16.499 Uttam Kumaran: They are. They are the ones that should help the Pm. Set. Realistic due date and realistic estimations.
221 00:26:16.720 ⇒ 00:26:17.530 Amber Lin: Somehow.
222 00:26:19.070 ⇒ 00:26:23.419 Uttam Kumaran: And also should pull the Pm accountable for, hey, this ticket isn’t groomed like there’s
223 00:26:23.750 ⇒ 00:26:26.350 Uttam Kumaran: the you’re basically playing defense for
224 00:26:26.480 ⇒ 00:26:32.089 Uttam Kumaran: like, is this ticket actually gonna get done like it does have all the right scope. Things like that.
225 00:26:32.240 ⇒ 00:26:44.699 Uttam Kumaran: The Pm. Once stuff’s in the sprint. It goes to Pm, which is like things moving forward communications to clients, that things are going out, communications to clients, that things are blocked, and why
226 00:26:45.140 ⇒ 00:26:52.420 Uttam Kumaran: changes to the roadmap delivery meetings. That’s all. The pm, right? That’s yeah.
227 00:27:02.270 ⇒ 00:27:04.770 Demilade Agboola: I also just think that you know, it’s
228 00:27:05.080 ⇒ 00:27:08.850 Demilade Agboola: the technical lead is also responsible for
229 00:27:09.659 ⇒ 00:27:13.790 Demilade Agboola: just like updating when tickets will not be met.
230 00:27:14.520 ⇒ 00:27:17.660 Demilade Agboola: Yes, so just being able to be
231 00:27:17.820 ⇒ 00:27:26.680 Demilade Agboola: like, give foresight like, Hey, I know we have this ticket that was supposed to deliver. Say, Friday. But it looks like it’s gonna be Tuesday instead. Just that sort of thing.
232 00:27:28.570 ⇒ 00:27:29.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
233 00:27:36.440 ⇒ 00:27:38.539 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s where, like, for example.
234 00:27:38.670 ⇒ 00:27:45.092 Uttam Kumaran: And you know, I sent some notes about today’s. But today’s urban stems meeting the tickets like
235 00:27:45.830 ⇒ 00:28:08.890 Uttam Kumaran: hey? We set this to be done today, but it’s going to be done on Thursday instead, there’s the Pm. That’s where the Pm. Has to hold the engineer. The tech lead accountable right? Which is like, why did why did we estimate this incorrectly? Is that was that a scope problem? Was that a a grooming issue? Right? Okay, great. What is the next expected due date?
236 00:28:09.050 ⇒ 00:28:19.959 Uttam Kumaran: And then, does this affect anything else in the sprint? Those are all the questions that Pm. Has to ask, and the reason why you ask is, you’re on the hook to relay that to the client on like what what happened? Why didn’t we hit it.
237 00:28:20.100 ⇒ 00:28:26.119 Amber Lin: Right, the tech lead. But the thing is that’s not an accusatory thing, because this is always gonna happen.
238 00:28:26.280 ⇒ 00:28:29.450 Amber Lin: It’s actually just like that’s the collaboration in like.
239 00:28:29.570 ⇒ 00:28:33.539 Uttam Kumaran: The otherwise the Pm. Will have to assume, and we’ll make a mistake.
240 00:28:33.950 ⇒ 00:28:38.819 Uttam Kumaran: Instead of just saying what’s accurate, which is what the tech lead knows from the technical side.
241 00:28:39.690 ⇒ 00:28:41.452 Uttam Kumaran: Similarly, if if
242 00:28:42.560 ⇒ 00:28:58.879 Uttam Kumaran: if like, if tickets are coming into the sprint that aren’t full, or if we’re finding that we’re changing the scope of tickets mid sprint. Or if we’re finding that the tech lead is spending time in fires, that is a project management escalation and triage problem.
243 00:28:59.200 ⇒ 00:29:01.970 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s where the tech leaders say, Hey.
244 00:29:02.150 ⇒ 00:29:13.539 Uttam Kumaran: we have an agreement that we’re only taking on 20% of ad hoc work and looks like it’s almost 50%. What’s going on? Should we budget for more? Second, looks like I’m getting blown up by clients.
245 00:29:14.120 ⇒ 00:29:15.600 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t do my work.
246 00:29:15.730 ⇒ 00:29:17.810 Uttam Kumaran: What’s going on right
247 00:29:18.560 ⇒ 00:29:23.209 Uttam Kumaran: thing that’s those are this or 3, rd hey? The client is asking us for way too much.
248 00:29:23.520 ⇒ 00:29:30.150 Uttam Kumaran: and I don’t think we’re supposed we. I only have this much fixed engineering hours to execute on this. What’s going on.
249 00:29:37.510 ⇒ 00:29:53.400 Amber Lin: great. So this is, just, or I guess 2 tech leads team members.
250 00:29:53.600 ⇒ 00:29:55.850 Amber Lin: If that’s the right way to put it,
251 00:30:07.900 ⇒ 00:30:13.160 Amber Lin: great I know we should a comment lower down there.
252 00:30:13.400 ⇒ 00:30:15.510 Amber Lin: Let’s also go. Look at that.
253 00:30:19.070 ⇒ 00:30:19.860 Amber Lin: Oh.
254 00:30:20.060 ⇒ 00:30:27.309 Amber Lin: okay, it’s in the Red Flag section, are we? Good with this as a 1st stop to start our thinking, and then we can keep
255 00:30:29.000 ⇒ 00:30:33.999 Amber Lin: I’ll I’ll we can rewrite this document, and we can add more details to it.
256 00:30:35.520 ⇒ 00:30:42.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel pretty good, I think. Like maybe we should assign these questions out like I answered a couple of them.
257 00:30:43.350 ⇒ 00:30:49.089 Uttam Kumaran: But, for example like, how do we know when? A. How do we refine? How do we define ready for development?
258 00:30:49.280 ⇒ 00:30:50.899 Uttam Kumaran: This is something that I think.
259 00:30:52.222 ⇒ 00:30:54.479 Uttam Kumaran: You guys should work on like what is
260 00:30:54.700 ⇒ 00:30:58.420 Uttam Kumaran: this is also goes with like, what is a good ticket, or what is ready for development.
261 00:30:59.030 ⇒ 00:31:04.440 Uttam Kumaran: I answered, like how much tech debt should be prioritized within a sprint, I answered.
262 00:31:04.440 ⇒ 00:31:05.300 Amber Lin: Adhawk.
263 00:31:05.580 ⇒ 00:31:09.919 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I so I answered a couple of them where these are just easy for me to to answer
264 00:31:10.260 ⇒ 00:31:11.560 Uttam Kumaran: the rest.
265 00:31:11.800 ⇒ 00:31:17.050 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’d be helpful for y’all to iterate on.
266 00:31:22.940 ⇒ 00:31:34.389 Amber Lin: we are at time. I know that which one, you probably have a AI sprint that you need to go to, yeah, I think next time.
267 00:31:36.170 ⇒ 00:31:39.210 Amber Lin: let’s work on answering these questions like, I,
268 00:31:40.110 ⇒ 00:31:42.710 Amber Lin: I don’t really know how we’re gonna assign them.
269 00:31:44.330 ⇒ 00:31:49.329 Uttam Kumaran: Well, let’s just like, let’s just get another meeting on the calendar. Maybe later this week.
270 00:31:49.330 ⇒ 00:31:50.020 Amber Lin: Okay.
271 00:31:50.370 ⇒ 00:31:51.359 Uttam Kumaran: And then.
272 00:31:51.360 ⇒ 00:31:52.630 Amber Lin: Talk about this, too.
273 00:31:52.830 ⇒ 00:31:59.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe if if you don’t mind, just like sending like setting up a slack reminder or something that’s like, take a look at this
274 00:32:00.510 ⇒ 00:32:05.990 Uttam Kumaran: 30 min before, or like at some point like I would love to sort of lock this in.
275 00:32:06.120 ⇒ 00:32:09.380 Uttam Kumaran: and then we can. We can try to present this on Friday to the whole team.
276 00:32:09.380 ⇒ 00:32:15.410 Amber Lin: Great awesome. We have a managers meeting tomorrow.
277 00:32:15.610 ⇒ 00:32:17.969 Amber Lin: so we can either do this tomorrow or Thursday.
278 00:32:18.910 ⇒ 00:32:21.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I would just do it sometime Thursday.
279 00:32:23.050 ⇒ 00:32:29.670 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, but like I don’t know like my time, I’m not sure if I’ll join, but as long it just ends up my calendar. I’ll remember to look at this.
280 00:32:29.790 ⇒ 00:32:30.390 Amber Lin: Okay.
281 00:32:36.480 ⇒ 00:32:37.520 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I gotta hop.
282 00:32:37.740 ⇒ 00:32:39.030 Amber Lin: Okay. Bye-bye.
283 00:32:41.070 ⇒ 00:32:41.740 Demilade Agboola: Got it.