Meeting Title: BF Managers Meeting - Sprint Retros Date: 2025-05-30 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:05:22.400 ⇒ 00:05:23.620 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! Wish.
2 00:05:24.480 ⇒ 00:05:25.350 Awaish Kumar: Hello!
3 00:05:25.630 ⇒ 00:05:26.729 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! How are you?
4 00:05:27.620 ⇒ 00:05:29.190 Awaish Kumar: I’m good. How about you?
5 00:05:29.360 ⇒ 00:05:33.280 Uttam Kumaran: I’m doing great. That was a great meeting man, really happy.
6 00:05:33.280 ⇒ 00:05:33.980 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I know.
7 00:05:34.800 ⇒ 00:05:35.840 Uttam Kumaran: What do you think?
8 00:05:36.710 ⇒ 00:05:40.969 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, it was really great and well planned.
9 00:05:41.470 ⇒ 00:05:42.899 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s getting better.
10 00:05:43.680 ⇒ 00:05:44.230 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
11 00:05:50.200 ⇒ 00:05:54.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me check what was on the agenda. I have some things we can talk about, but just make sure.
12 00:07:17.140 ⇒ 00:07:20.100 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m just putting together the agenda one second.
13 00:07:24.390 ⇒ 00:07:24.960 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
14 00:07:32.680 ⇒ 00:07:34.319 Awaish Kumar: We’ll live in New York.
15 00:07:36.090 ⇒ 00:07:37.279 Uttam Kumaran: Who is me?
16 00:07:37.610 ⇒ 00:07:38.220 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
17 00:07:39.007 ⇒ 00:07:42.039 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m in Chicago right now, visiting a friend.
18 00:07:43.500 ⇒ 00:07:44.050 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
19 00:07:52.070 ⇒ 00:07:54.009 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I just put some.
20 00:08:06.850 ⇒ 00:08:13.710 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I mean, maybe let’s let’s begin. Maybe with me. And you can talk. So I guess yeah, I was gonna ask you like.
21 00:08:13.830 ⇒ 00:08:18.010 Uttam Kumaran: maybe I can ask you. And then I can go like, how do you think we’re
22 00:08:18.270 ⇒ 00:08:23.879 Uttam Kumaran: would love to get your feedback like, how do you think we’re doing as a management team?
23 00:08:24.350 ⇒ 00:08:29.490 Uttam Kumaran: like, what is your feedback for us as a crew, or just in general.
24 00:08:31.489 ⇒ 00:08:39.480 Awaish Kumar: So only like I think we we are doing like a good work. But
25 00:08:39.679 ⇒ 00:08:43.460 Awaish Kumar: like I would like like to like, have some like
26 00:08:44.190 ⇒ 00:08:51.180 Awaish Kumar: some clarity on the roles of how we will be managing things in the team
27 00:08:52.430 ⇒ 00:08:58.689 Awaish Kumar: as you mentioned that now we have a Pm. And a tech lead, or some if we have something like
28 00:08:59.060 ⇒ 00:09:00.639 Awaish Kumar: and he didn’t.
29 00:09:00.810 ⇒ 00:09:05.019 Awaish Kumar: So one like Robert as a person he’s managing the work
30 00:09:05.230 ⇒ 00:09:09.180 Awaish Kumar: related to like in terms of like, how how client wants.
31 00:09:09.760 ⇒ 00:09:12.500 Awaish Kumar: And then I, or as a
32 00:09:12.950 ⇒ 00:09:19.909 Awaish Kumar: tech, lead or engineering manager, whatever like, maybe like managing the
33 00:09:20.300 ⇒ 00:09:24.700 Awaish Kumar: people who are working in the from the engineering team like how they
34 00:09:25.770 ⇒ 00:09:33.140 Awaish Kumar: like, how the how, the estimate, the work, and then that they would delivered in the
35 00:09:33.260 ⇒ 00:09:38.500 Awaish Kumar: sprint. And they’re growing technically, things like that. Right? So
36 00:09:38.710 ⇒ 00:09:41.130 Awaish Kumar: we have to define that like how
37 00:09:42.050 ⇒ 00:09:45.609 Awaish Kumar: we should be looking at things from different point of view, because.
38 00:09:46.360 ⇒ 00:09:50.599 Awaish Kumar: obviously, like Pm. Is also kind of delegating the work.
39 00:09:51.010 ⇒ 00:09:53.140 Awaish Kumar: Another tech lead.
40 00:09:54.590 ⇒ 00:10:01.429 Awaish Kumar: I’m also participating in the maybe ticket creating or anything. So how we we have that line.
41 00:10:02.340 ⇒ 00:10:04.716 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s a good question. I think. I think.
42 00:10:06.500 ⇒ 00:10:15.789 Uttam Kumaran: I think one is I I look at you. I look at our management team in a couple of different ways. So management is not just like people management. But it’s also like.
43 00:10:15.940 ⇒ 00:10:18.770 Uttam Kumaran: basically like, who are the core decision makers.
44 00:10:19.539 ⇒ 00:10:23.849 Uttam Kumaran: And I think I think this crew between me, you Amber Robert.
45 00:10:23.980 ⇒ 00:10:33.350 Uttam Kumaran: and we make all the core company decisions right? And so for me, it’s like, I I think about it as a leader is like, I want a trusted group of people that I can
46 00:10:33.580 ⇒ 00:10:36.299 Uttam Kumaran: have, make decisions on the company’s behalf.
47 00:10:36.560 ⇒ 00:10:52.349 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s that’s 1 thing for me that’s really important. But you’re right in that. I think we should clarify roles on. So let’s talk about the engineering side. I mean, you know, like typical engineering structure, there is engineering manager, tech lead. There are Ics
48 00:10:52.933 ⇒ 00:11:01.599 Uttam Kumaran: their CTO. So I think one is helpful, like, I. I see you as the only like true, like
49 00:11:01.930 ⇒ 00:11:10.080 Uttam Kumaran: people manager and like tech lead. Right now, right? I think Demolade is more just doing like tech lead work.
50 00:11:10.320 ⇒ 00:11:11.299 Uttam Kumaran: Would you agree.
51 00:11:11.300 ⇒ 00:11:11.920 Awaish Kumar: Things.
52 00:11:12.690 ⇒ 00:11:13.860 Awaish Kumar: Oh, yes.
53 00:11:14.210 ⇒ 00:11:18.640 Uttam Kumaran: So that in that in that sense like for me, I think it’s important to.
54 00:11:19.040 ⇒ 00:11:25.249 Uttam Kumaran: It’s important to just like highlight like, Hey, that’s that’s the case right now. And so. But but the other thing is like.
55 00:11:25.390 ⇒ 00:11:47.880 Uttam Kumaran: I think, I want this team like this management through. It’s also gonna help make decisions on salary promotions. Like how teams are structured. Right? So that’s beyond. Just like, technically like, this is where I want some. We we I want to give you sort of the ability to actually dictate how engineering teams are run
56 00:11:48.060 ⇒ 00:11:59.970 Uttam Kumaran: right. And so that’s like my, that would be my expectations for your role as like an engineering leader like I don’t see it. I think engineering manager. Maybe the title, but like
57 00:12:00.440 ⇒ 00:12:07.970 Uttam Kumaran: it’s honestly like something beyond that. It’s sort of like you’re the representation of the engineering team
58 00:12:08.140 ⇒ 00:12:09.510 Uttam Kumaran: in these meetings.
59 00:12:11.640 ⇒ 00:12:13.299 Uttam Kumaran: Representative, you know.
60 00:12:14.420 ⇒ 00:12:16.750 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I I understand that.
61 00:12:17.010 ⇒ 00:12:22.518 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that’s that. That’s 1 thing. When we are meeting
62 00:12:23.160 ⇒ 00:12:32.760 Awaish Kumar: internally together, deciding on some things and like in terms of, as you mentioned, some internal company structure or things
63 00:12:33.350 ⇒ 00:12:39.430 Awaish Kumar: that could be one of the responsibility. But when we are in some client work like
64 00:12:40.230 ⇒ 00:12:45.670 Awaish Kumar: there, like one, is the engineering side, where you basically want to
65 00:12:46.832 ⇒ 00:12:50.540 Awaish Kumar: utilize our resources optimally to deliver to the client.
66 00:12:50.640 ⇒ 00:12:56.209 Awaish Kumar: And then we have another kind of like, if, if, like.
67 00:12:56.880 ⇒ 00:13:02.989 Awaish Kumar: there is someone as an analytics engineer, he has to look 2, 2 people.
68 00:13:03.150 ⇒ 00:13:06.519 Awaish Kumar: one as a tech lead, like you will say like, maybe
69 00:13:08.560 ⇒ 00:13:10.460 Uttam Kumaran: Like, take Urban Center as an example.
70 00:13:11.070 ⇒ 00:13:11.750 Awaish Kumar: No, no.
71 00:13:12.130 ⇒ 00:13:15.199 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, maybe use urban sums as an example, we can talk through that.
72 00:13:17.201 ⇒ 00:13:24.839 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, like, what I’m saying is, maybe Kyle, if if we assign them, Larry as a team lead.
73 00:13:25.120 ⇒ 00:13:28.160 Awaish Kumar: and Kyle comes up with something.
74 00:13:29.150 ⇒ 00:13:34.190 Awaish Kumar: Click! Who then? How he is going to?
75 00:13:34.830 ⇒ 00:13:35.980 Awaish Kumar: Alright?
76 00:13:37.570 ⇒ 00:13:38.260 Awaish Kumar: Click!
77 00:13:39.990 ⇒ 00:13:46.400 Awaish Kumar: So I think like I I just want to see like how the Pm. And the tech lead going to collaborate
78 00:13:46.690 ⇒ 00:13:52.430 Awaish Kumar: on what should be in the sprint which basically satisfies
79 00:13:52.860 ⇒ 00:13:56.380 Awaish Kumar: the the client needs, and then
80 00:13:56.480 ⇒ 00:14:05.370 Awaish Kumar: and that that leak takes responsibility of how it can be done in the sprint with the given team.
81 00:14:07.120 ⇒ 00:14:11.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So this is where it’s like, I think, for the short term, me, you.
82 00:14:12.600 ⇒ 00:14:16.110 Uttam Kumaran: me and you are gonna be playing multiple roles right? Like.
83 00:14:16.380 ⇒ 00:14:21.360 Uttam Kumaran: I think there’s gonna be times where I’m playing, because right on the on clients, there’s gonna be account owner.
84 00:14:21.940 ⇒ 00:14:24.560 Uttam Kumaran: There’s gonna be there’s gonna be a tech lead.
85 00:14:25.050 ⇒ 00:14:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: And there’s gonna be project manager.
86 00:14:27.180 ⇒ 00:14:31.410 Uttam Kumaran: And there’s gonna be engineering, right? So I think
87 00:14:31.560 ⇒ 00:14:33.400 Uttam Kumaran: on all of those it’s going to be.
88 00:14:33.600 ⇒ 00:14:45.700 Uttam Kumaran: I’m playing account owner on some of them. I’m also gonna play tech lead on some of them. I think you’re gonna play tech lead on some of them. And demolanti is probably gonna play tech lead on some of them. But I I also think of your role.
89 00:14:45.810 ⇒ 00:14:51.859 Uttam Kumaran: and I know we wanted to talk with Robert more about it. But I see your role as beyond, just like, technically right, like.
90 00:14:51.970 ⇒ 00:14:52.960 Uttam Kumaran: you’re
91 00:14:53.280 ⇒ 00:15:06.020 Uttam Kumaran: you’re doing engineering management. But you’re also sort of like, I I kind of wanted to ask you like, what do I want to know from your side? What do you think we should do? Because I see you as like our the partner on the engineering side, right? Because
92 00:15:06.230 ⇒ 00:15:12.140 Uttam Kumaran: I’m I mean without you making the decision and being bought in. It’s not gonna succeed. So
93 00:15:12.440 ⇒ 00:15:24.499 Uttam Kumaran: I I think, like. That’s where I see in our internal company meetings. I see you as the core decision maker like you can come to the table and say, Hey, this is how I think Pm’s and tech leads should mix together.
94 00:15:24.770 ⇒ 00:15:44.870 Uttam Kumaran: and then we can all have a discussion there. I told Amber next week to schedule a call between me. You awaitian Demo to talk about Pm. Tech lead expectations. But I would be I would love if you can sort of help run that conversation and and sort of we can leave that meeting with clear expectations about what each role should be doing.
95 00:15:46.780 ⇒ 00:15:52.930 Awaish Kumar: That sounds good, and I agree, like, like I already agreed with you on that part that.
96 00:15:52.930 ⇒ 00:15:53.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
97 00:15:53.350 ⇒ 00:15:57.530 Awaish Kumar: I what I will be working on as like I love to be
98 00:15:58.890 ⇒ 00:16:03.760 Awaish Kumar: people manager, but we are with with doing technical work as well hands on.
99 00:16:04.040 ⇒ 00:16:07.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. You also, you also tell me what what you like, cause there’s a strategy work.
100 00:16:08.160 ⇒ 00:16:10.959 Uttam Kumaran: There’s the people work. And there’s the tech lead work
101 00:16:11.140 ⇒ 00:16:13.250 Uttam Kumaran: right? You could do all 3.
102 00:16:13.530 ⇒ 00:16:18.389 Uttam Kumaran: And then I think at some point we’ll probably end up bringing on someone to take on
103 00:16:18.590 ⇒ 00:16:22.530 Uttam Kumaran: like one piece of that right, because all of our time is gonna grow.
104 00:16:22.700 ⇒ 00:16:32.990 Uttam Kumaran: So in the short term, though, you should definitely, if you’re open to taking all 3, I think it’s wide open, because, as you know, I’m making a lot of the engineering like strategy decisions myself.
105 00:16:33.160 ⇒ 00:16:38.440 Uttam Kumaran: and I would much rather have you take that. And then we review together.
106 00:16:40.850 ⇒ 00:16:42.360 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah, that.
107 00:16:42.360 ⇒ 00:16:59.300 Uttam Kumaran: Which is like team formation hiring. It’s everything on like the type of tools we’re using. You’re doing a lot of that, anyway. So I think it’s just continuing to level up there. And then, you know, I’m I’m really interested in also having you come in and help tech lead some of the the AI work
108 00:16:59.480 ⇒ 00:17:04.150 Uttam Kumaran: as well, so cause I’m the only sort of tech lead there.
109 00:17:07.510 ⇒ 00:17:11.076 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, so like what I’ve was thinking,
110 00:17:14.155 ⇒ 00:17:19.510 Awaish Kumar: like when you ask like, in terms of like when you say about strategy things so like
111 00:17:20.904 ⇒ 00:17:42.245 Awaish Kumar: I I haven’t been so since the beginning we started. It’s mostly like, some. I got some things to do, so I haven’t really been in in that situation where we are actually defining strategies or doing like, except the data platform work.
112 00:17:43.160 ⇒ 00:17:47.289 Awaish Kumar: So yeah, so it would be nice like, maybe if I can just shadow you
113 00:17:48.075 ⇒ 00:17:55.329 Awaish Kumar: like. If you meet with someone with with a client like, I’m gonna say, like how you it can be just silent.
114 00:17:56.180 ⇒ 00:18:00.280 Uttam Kumaran: No, but even I don’t even think the strategy work. The strategy work is not even like
115 00:18:00.750 ⇒ 00:18:27.890 Uttam Kumaran: client related. It’s more of like, what is the type of work that we’re doing. For example, when we decided, Hey, we’re gonna do snowflake work for clients. That’s a decision. That’s a strategy. Because we can do. We can do a hundred one different things right? So when we make a decision, hey, this is our service offering. That’s where I could use some help, which is like, Okay, what is, what is? What are we? Actually? How do we package an offering? What type of work do we take on, how much should we price it at?
116 00:18:28.080 ⇒ 00:18:30.379 Uttam Kumaran: Right like, how much time does it take?
117 00:18:30.510 ⇒ 00:18:32.750 Uttam Kumaran: And what should clients expect?
118 00:18:33.470 ⇒ 00:18:40.190 Uttam Kumaran: Right. And and that’s like the what? The delivery, that’s all delivery called delivery strategy. Basically
119 00:18:40.350 ⇒ 00:18:51.499 Uttam Kumaran: like, what are we delivering? What does it take to do it? Why deliver this versus another thing right? So I would love to include you on that right now I’m making. I’m making a lot of those decisions myself.
120 00:18:51.907 ⇒ 00:18:57.360 Uttam Kumaran: Robert does a lot of the sales and is selling those we both execute. But in terms of like
121 00:18:57.540 ⇒ 00:18:59.229 Uttam Kumaran: what we’re selling.
122 00:18:59.430 ⇒ 00:19:18.049 Uttam Kumaran: I’m making that a lot myself, and I would love to loop you in, because I think you have a really good perspective on how long things should take. You have a great perspective on the latest in technology, and you have the respect of everybody on the team. So let’s say, tomorrow we’re going to say, Hey, we’re gonna now start doing Mongodb services.
123 00:19:18.190 ⇒ 00:19:30.309 Uttam Kumaran: You know how what it would take for us to like. Bring a team together and and arrange around that service, offering right? So maybe if let’s do, we can do something around like reviewing all the things that we offer.
124 00:19:30.730 ⇒ 00:19:39.349 Uttam Kumaran: marking the things down like, hey, these are the these are the actual. When science is, what do you do for what can you do for us? Here are the things that we do technically.
125 00:19:39.380 ⇒ 00:20:00.739 Uttam Kumaran: And then here’s some things that we’re considering doing. And why? Right? So why can be okay? It gets us into a new market. So there’s more revenue. Why could be okay. AI, for example, if we’re not doing AI right now, like nobody’s gonna care, like, we’re just another average company. So and we also have the skill set. So, okay, so what should we position, how should we position ourselves in? AI?
126 00:20:00.820 ⇒ 00:20:08.529 Uttam Kumaran: 3rd thing is like, okay, we now that we know what we want to do, what are the best vendors in the space like, who should we call to ask for partnerships?
127 00:20:08.630 ⇒ 00:20:09.430 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
128 00:20:09.880 ⇒ 00:20:19.899 Uttam Kumaran: Like those are the those are those things I make. I’m just doing that myself like, but I don’t. I would rather do that with you. It’s like not. There’s not really any reason.
129 00:20:22.480 ⇒ 00:20:24.100 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that sounds good. Right?
130 00:20:24.100 ⇒ 00:20:24.750 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
131 00:20:27.210 ⇒ 00:20:43.489 Uttam Kumaran: so that’s really helpful to know. Okay? And then, yeah, I think the next week we’re gonna have this Pm tech lead meeting. And yeah, it would be amazing for you to lead that and lead that with amber. And those are the 2 stakeholders. And I’ll follow you guys lead, like. Whatever you feel like is is the way we should do that. Like I’m
132 00:20:43.690 ⇒ 00:20:45.479 Uttam Kumaran: I’m I’m open to it, you know.
133 00:20:47.820 ⇒ 00:20:50.059 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, I will. I will, like.
134 00:20:50.230 ⇒ 00:20:53.140 Awaish Kumar: maybe create some motion talk with some
135 00:20:53.630 ⇒ 00:20:57.640 Awaish Kumar: can define some, how it can be, how the responsibility
136 00:20:58.100 ⇒ 00:21:02.750 Awaish Kumar: can be split, or how how the team will work together.
137 00:21:03.040 ⇒ 00:21:03.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
138 00:21:04.080 ⇒ 00:21:12.130 Uttam Kumaran: I also, I also the next. Yeah. The only other thing is like we, you know, we haven’t since we brought on all these new people. We haven’t done much in terms of
139 00:21:12.370 ⇒ 00:21:16.460 Uttam Kumaran: like bringing on like new hires
140 00:21:17.081 ⇒ 00:21:20.880 Uttam Kumaran: but this is where I think. And then, whenever the next sort of engineering.
141 00:21:21.050 ⇒ 00:21:24.019 Uttam Kumaran: The next moves we make on bringing more engineers. I want
142 00:21:24.483 ⇒ 00:21:30.739 Uttam Kumaran: you to help me lead that like recruitment and like the interview process there.
143 00:21:31.000 ⇒ 00:21:39.320 Uttam Kumaran: I know you mentioned 2 people. We have a lot of people that want to work here, and so that’s something that probably in a few months we’ll just need to decide on like, what is our rubric
144 00:21:39.480 ⇒ 00:21:45.010 Uttam Kumaran: or hiring and like, how do we actually hire? And how do we streamline that process.
145 00:21:46.670 ⇒ 00:21:49.249 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So that’s that’s also really helpful.
146 00:21:51.980 ⇒ 00:21:53.600 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I was actually
147 00:21:54.155 ⇒ 00:22:04.750 Awaish Kumar: he was about to make something. But that last AI, I don’t know. I I don’t remember the name. Yeah, he just accepted the offer somewhere else. And
148 00:22:04.970 ⇒ 00:22:08.133 Awaish Kumar: I I just moved on with some other other things.
149 00:22:08.770 ⇒ 00:22:11.050 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, that’s fine. That’s fine.
150 00:22:14.280 ⇒ 00:22:32.579 Uttam Kumaran: okay, yeah. I mean, the I would say, the only other thing is like, Yeah, I think we should as soon as like me and Robert can get on the phone. I think we should talk about like like salary offer. I think you’ve been working like pretty diligently, and I want to give you some sense of security as well that you can dedicate full time here.
151 00:22:33.002 ⇒ 00:22:37.999 Uttam Kumaran: You know the other thing we haven’t talked about as a management team is like incentives.
152 00:22:38.130 ⇒ 00:22:45.430 Uttam Kumaran: and like, I don’t, I don’t want people to do management work and then not get like paid or not. Sort of win.
153 00:22:45.570 ⇒ 00:22:54.789 Uttam Kumaran: like, it’s more, it’s much more responsibility. And I get, there’s 1 thing it’s like, Yeah, I want to do it. But it’s also like, I want everyone to to feel like they’re getting rewarded. So
154 00:22:54.940 ⇒ 00:22:57.929 Uttam Kumaran: this is another point of discussion we should have is like.
155 00:22:58.585 ⇒ 00:23:01.419 Uttam Kumaran: how we’re gonna reward the management team?
156 00:23:02.155 ⇒ 00:23:08.060 Uttam Kumaran: You know, for for taking on more more work, but also like.
157 00:23:08.600 ⇒ 00:23:12.649 Uttam Kumaran: how can each of this group share in the risk right like, for example, if
158 00:23:13.130 ⇒ 00:23:18.489 Uttam Kumaran: if we do everything right. But we don’t make more money, there’s something wrong. Right? So
159 00:23:18.926 ⇒ 00:23:23.079 Uttam Kumaran: but also we should set some kpis and things like that like I agree.
160 00:23:24.720 ⇒ 00:23:25.100 Uttam Kumaran: No.
161 00:23:26.610 ⇒ 00:23:31.960 Awaish Kumar: That at least have an action to move like as a
162 00:23:32.090 ⇒ 00:23:35.761 Awaish Kumar: people’s manager, like, I’ve been meeting with these.
163 00:23:36.590 ⇒ 00:23:41.209 Awaish Kumar: I have been managing data platform work and collaborate, trying to
164 00:23:41.480 ⇒ 00:23:46.339 Awaish Kumar: everyone to collaborate with with each other and and deliver those documents.
165 00:23:47.050 ⇒ 00:23:49.539 Awaish Kumar: And apart from that.
166 00:23:49.830 ⇒ 00:23:56.720 Awaish Kumar: I’ve been meeting with them, one on and one on one, and trying to see if if they are happy with the work. But apart from that, like
167 00:23:57.010 ⇒ 00:24:00.340 Awaish Kumar: like like, if there’s a clear direction, like
168 00:24:00.720 ⇒ 00:24:04.510 Awaish Kumar: what exactly I can stretch like myself right.
169 00:24:04.510 ⇒ 00:24:04.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
170 00:24:05.040 ⇒ 00:24:06.870 Awaish Kumar: Then it would be nice to know that.
171 00:24:07.620 ⇒ 00:24:11.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think, number one, I could use your help on technical strategy.
172 00:24:12.650 ⇒ 00:24:16.290 Uttam Kumaran: What are the new things in AI and data that we’re trying to do?
173 00:24:16.410 ⇒ 00:24:22.369 Uttam Kumaran: Why are we doing the services we’re offering? How much does it cost to deliver versus? How much money do we make?
174 00:24:22.720 ⇒ 00:24:24.339 Uttam Kumaran: Those are the things I think about.
175 00:24:24.680 ⇒ 00:24:30.490 Uttam Kumaran: So I can start to include you there. The second piece is, I think, before
176 00:24:30.770 ⇒ 00:24:35.729 Uttam Kumaran: one thing that’s gonna start to happen is longer. People are here, and we don’t sort of promote.
177 00:24:35.850 ⇒ 00:24:38.140 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna see? People start to ask like.
178 00:24:38.380 ⇒ 00:24:45.370 Uttam Kumaran: and when am I gonna get promoted or salary increases. So we 1st need to decide on the incentive structure for the management team.
179 00:24:45.510 ⇒ 00:24:50.670 Uttam Kumaran: and then, second, we should then work on incentive structure for the entire team. So
180 00:24:50.850 ⇒ 00:24:55.449 Uttam Kumaran: that’s another thing I also want to formally announce, like this group.
181 00:24:55.930 ⇒ 00:24:59.039 Uttam Kumaran: like, I want to make a pretty formal announcement of
182 00:24:59.190 ⇒ 00:25:02.020 Uttam Kumaran: who is on the management side of things.
183 00:25:04.320 ⇒ 00:25:11.159 Uttam Kumaran: so like, I want to share with everyone like your we should decide on title. And I want to share with everyone that like
184 00:25:11.570 ⇒ 00:25:14.039 Uttam Kumaran: this crew of people is is
185 00:25:14.180 ⇒ 00:25:17.130 Uttam Kumaran: is on like sort of the the management side.
186 00:25:17.584 ⇒ 00:25:24.289 Uttam Kumaran: and share that hourly and sort of make clear on publicly, and stuff like that, too, so we can all cement it.
187 00:25:27.340 ⇒ 00:25:30.019 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like that also will help. Because
188 00:25:30.150 ⇒ 00:25:37.029 Awaish Kumar: sometimes, like, if I say something that’s like it, it has no weight.
189 00:25:40.560 ⇒ 00:25:44.900 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, you’re right. So I think that’s what we’ll do as well as I want to make it clear to everybody.
190 00:25:45.547 ⇒ 00:25:57.229 Uttam Kumaran: That. Okay, there now is a management team, and that for me, like having you guys is so helpful. And so I want to know that that we can all lean on each other as this crew, and
191 00:25:57.470 ⇒ 00:26:01.570 Uttam Kumaran: build, like, you know, an an amazing business, and grow even faster.
192 00:26:05.100 ⇒ 00:26:05.820 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
193 00:26:06.470 ⇒ 00:26:08.261 Awaish Kumar: Sounds sounds good to me
194 00:26:08.620 ⇒ 00:26:17.490 Uttam Kumaran: What’s your what’s your thoughts on the AI side like now that you’ve seen it for a few weeks, and you’re seeing how I’m running it like, how comfortable do you feel with, like.
195 00:26:17.990 ⇒ 00:26:21.539 Uttam Kumaran: you know, some of that work like, do you still, do you feel like.
196 00:26:21.820 ⇒ 00:26:25.820 Uttam Kumaran: okay, I can. I totally know what direction we’re trying to head. Or are you like.
197 00:26:26.170 ⇒ 00:26:32.979 Uttam Kumaran: okay? Actually, I just want to, maybe keep shadowing. Or how do you feel about the AI work. But I know you’re do the data stuff like that’s fine.
198 00:26:34.550 ⇒ 00:26:37.050 Awaish Kumar: Like from AI side. I think.
199 00:26:39.000 ⇒ 00:26:48.360 Awaish Kumar: Like our scope. What I can say like like the that is changing quite fast.
200 00:26:50.260 ⇒ 00:26:54.000 Awaish Kumar: Yes, so like, if we have a
201 00:26:54.570 ⇒ 00:26:59.000 Awaish Kumar: new client, then the like resources are going there. And then.
202 00:26:59.650 ⇒ 00:27:08.310 Awaish Kumar: Also, like we have, like, we have new ideas. And we have been like trying to work on that like I see, like the agency built initially.
203 00:27:08.900 ⇒ 00:27:09.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
204 00:27:09.696 ⇒ 00:27:18.830 Awaish Kumar: They didn’t mature enough, and we moved on to something else. I’m not yeah. So I think, like.
205 00:27:21.990 ⇒ 00:27:27.470 Awaish Kumar: we are like, maybe moving fast.
206 00:27:27.470 ⇒ 00:27:28.010 Uttam Kumaran: You’re right.
207 00:27:28.010 ⇒ 00:27:29.619 Awaish Kumar: 25 years, then.
208 00:27:30.120 ⇒ 00:27:32.499 Uttam Kumaran: See the you know. What can I tell you? The problem is like
209 00:27:32.680 ⇒ 00:27:38.999 Uttam Kumaran: they weren’t getting it done, and I can’t. And like, this is where it’s like. It took us some time, but
210 00:27:39.380 ⇒ 00:27:44.570 Uttam Kumaran: you can see the the opportunity cost is that we we built a zoom thing in 2 days.
211 00:27:44.730 ⇒ 00:27:49.370 Uttam Kumaran: Imagine we spent another 2 weeks working on like
212 00:27:49.480 ⇒ 00:27:56.509 Uttam Kumaran: super base and stuff like that. So like, I know, okay, we just have to. Sometimes we just need to take a break switch. We can come back, you know.
213 00:27:56.660 ⇒ 00:28:02.069 Uttam Kumaran: like. And also it’s like we, it just needs to. The AI guys are not data folks.
214 00:28:02.440 ⇒ 00:28:07.270 Uttam Kumaran: right? So they’re learning like basic data concepts for the 1st time right now.
215 00:28:07.490 ⇒ 00:28:09.790 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s the challenge is also like
216 00:28:09.950 ⇒ 00:28:16.769 Uttam Kumaran: I. That’s why I think they should do the Dbt. They should do the Snowflake course or super base course, or something, because
217 00:28:16.900 ⇒ 00:28:21.310 Uttam Kumaran: they need to be much more knowledgeable about like data structures.
218 00:28:24.750 ⇒ 00:28:26.940 Awaish Kumar: Yes, and I like, I think
219 00:28:27.290 ⇒ 00:28:33.029 Awaish Kumar: I also think like, like mostly people who are relying completely on AI
220 00:28:34.950 ⇒ 00:28:36.689 Awaish Kumar: Then they don’t know like.
221 00:28:36.950 ⇒ 00:28:37.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
222 00:28:37.790 ⇒ 00:28:42.799 Awaish Kumar: Like the concepts like how it is happening is just happening, because Aiote.
223 00:28:43.730 ⇒ 00:28:44.670 Uttam Kumaran: That’s correct.
224 00:28:45.910 ⇒ 00:28:48.080 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s the thing, I think, for those guys.
225 00:28:48.280 ⇒ 00:28:51.120 Uttam Kumaran: we should think about some sort of professional development.
226 00:28:54.590 ⇒ 00:28:59.900 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where, like I would lean on you to to say, Hey, we want to get everyone through like
227 00:29:00.240 ⇒ 00:29:04.909 Uttam Kumaran: some database course or some software engineering fundamentals course.
228 00:29:05.918 ⇒ 00:29:07.460 Uttam Kumaran: So that they can learn
229 00:29:07.930 ⇒ 00:29:11.489 Uttam Kumaran: because they’re all smart, you know. So the biggest thing is like.
230 00:29:11.610 ⇒ 00:29:14.119 Uttam Kumaran: you’re right. They’re getting stuck on like basic stuff.
231 00:29:17.600 ⇒ 00:29:20.219 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t know. Maybe we should think about like
232 00:29:20.950 ⇒ 00:29:26.330 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we could put everyone the Dbc course, I don’t know. Maybe we should. I want something more hands on.
233 00:29:26.330 ⇒ 00:29:27.330 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, guys.
234 00:29:28.120 ⇒ 00:29:31.780 Awaish Kumar: I think we should have some find some course which is basically
235 00:29:32.230 ⇒ 00:29:37.100 Awaish Kumar: which help them build like AI, like the agent work
236 00:29:37.250 ⇒ 00:29:40.819 Awaish Kumar: which is like build an app which basically runs the engine.
237 00:29:41.600 ⇒ 00:29:47.489 Awaish Kumar: But but that course, like teach teaches them all the concepts and the core concepts, and
238 00:29:47.850 ⇒ 00:29:52.360 Awaish Kumar: how exactly the architect the project and work on it like.
239 00:29:52.360 ⇒ 00:29:52.780 Uttam Kumaran: And.
240 00:29:52.780 ⇒ 00:29:56.779 Awaish Kumar: Basically they have done the same thing. But it’s just much more
241 00:29:57.080 ⇒ 00:29:59.070 Awaish Kumar: structure to what they are doing.
242 00:30:01.720 ⇒ 00:30:03.409 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think so, too.
243 00:30:05.080 ⇒ 00:30:09.149 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll send. I’ll I’ll send you one. Maybe you can check it out. I have one in mind.
244 00:30:10.620 ⇒ 00:30:11.220 Awaish Kumar: Thanks.
245 00:30:13.350 ⇒ 00:30:18.579 Uttam Kumaran: You can try and let me know if it’s like you think it’s fine.
246 00:30:26.810 ⇒ 00:30:28.100 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, and also, like.
247 00:30:28.580 ⇒ 00:30:37.110 Awaish Kumar: like on the, you can see like there, there are like very short courses which can basically teach you something in just a week, or something. So.
248 00:30:37.110 ⇒ 00:30:40.299 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I want them to learn some software engineering fundamentals.
249 00:30:42.900 ⇒ 00:30:44.840 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, at least in the database, it’s work.
250 00:30:46.180 ⇒ 00:30:52.199 Awaish Kumar: Now, what I’m trying to say is that like they will learn that software engineering principles while building an AI application.
251 00:30:52.455 ⇒ 00:30:57.309 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let me tell me if you tell me if you find one that looks decent.
252 00:30:59.540 ⇒ 00:31:03.059 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I will search for it and let you know if I find anything.
253 00:31:04.370 ⇒ 00:31:12.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I think so, I mean, this is so I would to give you a sense like the number one goal right now is like we’re gonna we’re trying our best to just like
254 00:31:12.380 ⇒ 00:31:18.859 Uttam Kumaran: to see how we can grow with just this current crew. I think we do have a little bit more capacity to do work.
255 00:31:20.790 ⇒ 00:31:23.819 Uttam Kumaran: I think we do have a little bit more capacity to do work
256 00:31:24.240 ⇒ 00:31:28.380 Uttam Kumaran: that doesn’t require more people like, I think we can take on 2 or 3 more clients.
257 00:31:28.933 ⇒ 00:31:36.589 Uttam Kumaran: But then quickly, we’re gonna have to just make sure we’re recruiting effectively, you know. So I think that’s our. That’s gonna be our biggest thing is
258 00:31:37.345 ⇒ 00:31:37.790 Uttam Kumaran: because
259 00:31:38.170 ⇒ 00:31:43.819 Uttam Kumaran: part of like what what we’re gonna have to work on with amber is allocations like how many people we have?
260 00:31:44.150 ⇒ 00:31:48.639 Uttam Kumaran: At what point do we need to recruit for more people? But the nice thing is, we have a lot of people that want to work for us.
261 00:31:48.900 ⇒ 00:31:54.790 Uttam Kumaran: So and I think we’re doing pretty cool work. So I don’t think it. We’re gonna have a hard time recruiting.
262 00:31:58.120 ⇒ 00:31:58.710 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
263 00:31:59.700 ⇒ 00:32:00.860 Uttam Kumaran: What do you think?
264 00:32:02.020 ⇒ 00:32:06.049 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, it’s the same like, we can easily find the people.
265 00:32:07.087 ⇒ 00:32:11.399 Awaish Kumar: With the like we are doing, we are doing AI data engineering work, which is.
266 00:32:12.610 ⇒ 00:32:13.729 Awaish Kumar: which is the industry.
267 00:32:13.730 ⇒ 00:32:15.139 Uttam Kumaran: Pretty hot. Works, yeah.
268 00:32:20.960 ⇒ 00:32:21.700 Uttam Kumaran: okay?
269 00:32:21.700 ⇒ 00:32:22.180 Awaish Kumar: Remember.
270 00:32:22.180 ⇒ 00:32:22.500 Uttam Kumaran: What else?
271 00:32:22.500 ⇒ 00:32:26.688 Awaish Kumar: So it’s a remote work. So it’s not like you have to find in the Us.
272 00:32:26.950 ⇒ 00:32:27.520 Uttam Kumaran: Agree. And that’s.
273 00:32:27.520 ⇒ 00:32:29.900 Awaish Kumar: For Turkey, Pakistan, India.
274 00:32:30.356 ⇒ 00:32:32.710 Uttam Kumaran: You can easily find good talent with.
275 00:32:32.710 ⇒ 00:32:38.619 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s also so so that’s also the question I was gonna have is like, so one of the one of the things I wrote down is.
276 00:32:38.820 ⇒ 00:32:44.089 Uttam Kumaran: I think we need a pro another project manager sooner than we need another engineer.
277 00:32:44.720 ⇒ 00:32:50.340 Uttam Kumaran: Keep my sanity until tomorrow afternoon, when I have the appointment like
278 00:32:51.960 ⇒ 00:32:53.284 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I think
279 00:32:53.550 ⇒ 00:32:55.869 Awaish Kumar: I know a delivery manager.
280 00:32:56.400 ⇒ 00:33:02.160 Awaish Kumar: He worked with me in the last company, and
281 00:33:02.840 ⇒ 00:33:05.290 Awaish Kumar: he’s in India right now. I’m not sure
282 00:33:05.410 ⇒ 00:33:13.150 Awaish Kumar: I can ask if if we want want to do if we meet with him, like, just to see if he’s good enough, or like.
283 00:33:13.800 ⇒ 00:33:15.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. When do you work with them before.
284 00:33:16.340 ⇒ 00:33:17.820 Awaish Kumar: I’ve worked at Mino games.
285 00:33:18.210 ⇒ 00:33:18.950 Awaish Kumar: Come with him.
286 00:33:18.950 ⇒ 00:33:20.770 Awaish Kumar: He wasn’t good delivery manager.
287 00:33:21.380 ⇒ 00:33:22.220 Awaish Kumar: Sorry.
288 00:33:22.390 ⇒ 00:33:23.210 Uttam Kumaran: He was good.
289 00:33:23.910 ⇒ 00:33:25.149 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah, he’s good.
290 00:33:25.810 ⇒ 00:33:27.050 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, okay, set it up.
291 00:33:31.350 ⇒ 00:33:36.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we need to. We need to get another Pm. Or delivery manager pretty soon.
292 00:33:36.570 ⇒ 00:33:38.820 Uttam Kumaran: But hiring here in the Us.
293 00:33:39.390 ⇒ 00:33:41.840 Uttam Kumaran: They’re lazy and they’re very expensive.
294 00:33:42.320 ⇒ 00:33:45.550 Uttam Kumaran: like amber is not a Pm. Amber is like a data analyst.
295 00:33:45.730 ⇒ 00:33:48.379 Uttam Kumaran: and she worked in ey like big consulting.
296 00:33:48.900 ⇒ 00:33:51.629 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s why I thought she could learn. Pm, because
297 00:33:52.190 ⇒ 00:34:01.189 Uttam Kumaran: pm, isn’t. The hard thing about Pm. Is actually like the larger strategy work. So, but a hiring in the Us. The Pm’s like suck. I don’t know. I don’t know what you thought.
298 00:34:14.090 ⇒ 00:34:15.310 Awaish Kumar: No, I was just thinking, thank you.
299 00:34:15.480 ⇒ 00:34:22.749 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I said, I just the the Pm’s I I have a lot of the Pm’s. Here are really hard to find quality project managers.
300 00:34:23.280 ⇒ 00:34:26.819 Awaish Kumar: No, he he was really good, like he
301 00:34:26.940 ⇒ 00:34:31.399 Awaish Kumar: kind of running sprint, flat rows, and everything, all the rituals he knows.
302 00:34:32.710 ⇒ 00:34:39.209 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, then let’s yeah, maybe. Is he on Linkedin, or do you wanna like you wanna reach out to him? Or what do you want to do.
303 00:34:41.620 ⇒ 00:34:44.820 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I I have like, maybe him.
304 00:34:45.250 ⇒ 00:34:48.247 Awaish Kumar: I’m connected with him on Linkedin. I can message him, and
305 00:34:49.260 ⇒ 00:34:53.520 Awaish Kumar: I can ask if he wants to meet. Then I will just share it.
306 00:34:54.230 ⇒ 00:34:57.859 Awaish Kumar: maybe set up a call, or maybe share his email with you or Cv with you.
307 00:34:58.330 ⇒ 00:35:03.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah. Can you send the? Can you also send? Send me his Linkedin. And I. Just so I have track.
308 00:35:05.253 ⇒ 00:35:06.040 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, sure.
309 00:35:06.250 ⇒ 00:35:06.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
310 00:35:08.370 ⇒ 00:35:09.060 Awaish Kumar: Sure.
311 00:35:09.920 ⇒ 00:35:15.400 Awaish Kumar: So actually, I have to go in a client meeting now.
312 00:35:15.400 ⇒ 00:35:16.689 Awaish Kumar: Okay, okay, alright.
313 00:35:17.230 ⇒ 00:35:18.150 Awaish Kumar: So yeah.
314 00:35:19.065 ⇒ 00:35:20.880 Awaish Kumar: See you after.
315 00:35:20.880 ⇒ 00:35:21.990 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thanks, so much.
316 00:35:22.880 ⇒ 00:35:23.830 Awaish Kumar: Thank you. Bye.