Meeting Title: Robert Tseng and Tope Longe Date: 2025-05-19 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Tope Longe


WEBVTT

1 00:03:16.960 00:03:17.830 Robert Tseng: Hey, Tobe!

2 00:03:20.060 00:03:21.010 Robert Tseng: Can you hear me?

3 00:03:21.910 00:03:23.650 Tope Longe: Yes, I can. Hi!

4 00:03:26.290 00:03:30.230 Robert Tseng: Okay. Sorry. I’m just like kind of in a hallway in between meetings.

5 00:03:32.280 00:03:34.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Sorry. I’m sorry I was running a bit late.

6 00:03:34.950 00:03:36.040 Tope Longe: No, it’s okay.

7 00:03:37.270 00:03:38.060 Tope Longe: Hi.

8 00:03:38.760 00:03:59.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, good to meet you. Thanks for taking the time to get on this call. Yeah, I think I reached out obviously because you have your experience with Customer I/O, and then you work with Mcaw. And then I guess you’ve got a lot of agency experience, too. So I think I was just curious. I’m just getting picking your brain on some things and getting to know your story a bit more.

9 00:04:00.060 00:04:06.380 Tope Longe: Yeah, so perhaps I should just run through my my experience, I guess.

10 00:04:06.580 00:04:07.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sure.

11 00:04:07.900 00:04:11.153 Tope Longe: Okay. So my name is Tope again. And.

12 00:04:12.230 00:04:13.739 Robert Tseng: Oh, it’s Topei! I’m sorry.

13 00:04:13.950 00:04:15.430 Tope Longe: Yes, no, it’s fine.

14 00:04:15.430 00:04:16.120 Robert Tseng: Okay.

15 00:04:16.510 00:04:22.490 Tope Longe: So my name is, I’m currently currently reside in Berlin, Berlin, Germany.

16 00:04:22.940 00:04:23.600 Robert Tseng: Cool.

17 00:04:23.780 00:04:29.060 Tope Longe: And I’ve been here for I think about one and a half years now, and

18 00:04:29.360 00:04:36.639 Tope Longe: obviously I think you saw my my outlook profile. So. I’ve been on output for quite a while and

19 00:04:37.451 00:04:44.369 Tope Longe: up until, like a few years ago, I I started working with Margo

20 00:04:44.530 00:04:49.247 Tope Longe: before Margot. I’ve been like doing things on open, focused on email marketing.

21 00:04:50.100 00:04:54.999 Tope Longe: back, then a lot of mail chain, active campaigns and things like that. But then.

22 00:04:55.120 00:04:59.189 Tope Longe: when I got into Maca is when I saw the beauty of you know.

23 00:04:59.810 00:05:04.370 Tope Longe: event based, you know, and email marketing using customer value.

24 00:05:05.100 00:05:09.239 Tope Longe: And then the scale at which you know, it could actually impact businesses.

25 00:05:09.460 00:05:14.470 Tope Longe: And then I got interested. Dan was very happy, you know, to throw me in.

26 00:05:14.790 00:05:19.909 Tope Longe: And then I got like the customer Rio Certification. When I was at Margo.

27 00:05:21.430 00:05:24.359 Tope Longe: But then I left Margo like a couple of years ago.

28 00:05:24.490 00:05:25.410 Tope Longe: But I,

29 00:05:25.530 00:05:36.760 Tope Longe: you know, took it. Took walked away from there with like a lot of experience around this. And then I started, you know, helping people on upwork. And so

30 00:05:37.240 00:05:41.050 Tope Longe: and I’ve been able to like work on like

31 00:05:41.800 00:05:44.050 Tope Longe: a number of, you know, campaigns

32 00:05:44.200 00:05:53.079 Tope Longe: from both small businesses to larger businesses, from and e-commerce to like a social app.

33 00:05:53.925 00:05:59.034 Tope Longe: This. So so just mention, like specific accounts that I’ve worked on.

34 00:05:59.590 00:06:02.660 Tope Longe: There’s the blank app, which is like a social app.

35 00:06:02.850 00:06:08.179 Tope Longe: There is keep, which is like one of Australia’s biggest, you know, pet resorts

36 00:06:08.350 00:06:12.649 Tope Longe: there is with lab, with with labs, which is like a

37 00:06:13.040 00:06:17.570 Tope Longe: learning platform for people who are looking to get professional certification.

38 00:06:18.208 00:06:20.600 Tope Longe: In like aws as well.

39 00:06:21.610 00:06:27.300 Tope Longe: and then a couple of other like sales and coaching businesses.

40 00:06:27.970 00:06:29.023 Tope Longe: And so

41 00:06:30.200 00:06:39.560 Tope Longe: with each project. Right? It’s a totally different experience, because in most cases it is tailored to the user journey

42 00:06:39.810 00:06:46.259 Tope Longe: for each of these businesses, and then which which each of those comes different, unique challenges.

43 00:06:46.490 00:06:58.849 Tope Longe: And so it’s been an exciting one. And then it’s also interesting to see that I know people are, you know, are getting a lot more interested in customer I/O event, based email marketing. And so.

44 00:06:59.354 00:07:05.040 Tope Longe: I’m happy that you know the experience at Margo actually set me on this path, and I’m totally enjoying it.

45 00:07:06.200 00:07:12.650 Robert Tseng: Nice. Yeah, no, it’s good to hear. Yeah, I think I I remember the Mailchimp days. And yeah, to

46 00:07:12.870 00:07:20.829 Robert Tseng: yeah, to switch over to event based marketing. I think, just to double click into that. So there’s a couple of things that I think about. So. I think

47 00:07:21.070 00:07:42.930 Robert Tseng: so I, I focus more on the data side. So maybe a little bit overlap with the golf. But like so setting up the the data layer, the the tagging tracking. We kind of centralize the data in a data warehouse. Typically and then we figure out like, okay, well, what parameters do we want to actually or computer traits. We want to pass into customer. I/O, right?

48 00:07:43.701 00:07:48.370 Robert Tseng: And so I do work with a few like lifecycle marketer personas probably similar to you.

49 00:07:49.493 00:08:13.789 Robert Tseng: I think it’s been interesting trying to figure out like what’s like the right balance to strike with. Obviously, customer has very self service like you can create a lot of down segments that you want, but knowing, like what like, where do we draw the lines of like? What’s better to pre compute like further upstream in the funnel, or like in in the pipeline versus, just like passing you like passing like

50 00:08:14.020 00:08:24.270 Robert Tseng: you know, the the lifecycle marketer like the raw, raw data for them to go and like construct the segments themselves. So I’m curious, like, if you have. If you have a perspective on that.

51 00:08:24.450 00:08:33.250 Tope Longe: Yes, yes. So in my experience. The best practice is to, you know.

52 00:08:33.880 00:08:38.900 Tope Longe: start with like very clean data that is mapped to

53 00:08:39.477 00:08:43.549 Tope Longe: each of the unique campaigns that you want to run

54 00:08:44.058 00:08:48.241 Tope Longe: and then, typical of, you know, like a life cycle, you start that, you know.

55 00:08:49.391 00:08:55.310 Tope Longe: Say, if you use like a framework, you know, you activate, which is your onboarding and things like that.

56 00:08:55.430 00:09:00.840 Tope Longe: And then you, you expand, you know.

57 00:09:01.500 00:09:07.180 Tope Longe: be basically, you know whatever you want to do, and then, before you even get started.

58 00:09:07.370 00:09:10.149 Tope Longe: And this is the biggest challenge that I see

59 00:09:10.580 00:09:15.259 Tope Longe: working in working with people who already had like an existing setup.

60 00:09:16.390 00:09:18.240 Tope Longe: And the data is a mess.

61 00:09:18.920 00:09:21.449 Tope Longe: Yeah? And because it’s a mess.

62 00:09:21.770 00:09:28.839 Tope Longe: it doesn’t make, it doesn’t make it easy for you to run super efficient and effective campaigns.

63 00:09:29.860 00:09:33.940 Tope Longe: And so in cleaning, at at least, I’ve done like 2 cleanups.

64 00:09:34.120 00:09:40.410 Tope Longe: I’m still working on one right now and then what actually solves that problem is

65 00:09:41.190 00:09:44.830 Tope Longe: outlining. You know the events, the key events.

66 00:09:45.271 00:09:48.189 Tope Longe: and the event attributes that you need for every step

67 00:09:48.780 00:09:52.969 Tope Longe: in the user journey which is vital to the campaigns that you want to run.

68 00:09:53.580 00:09:56.439 Tope Longe: Once you build out that data tracking plan.

69 00:09:56.940 00:10:02.230 Tope Longe: then that determines what events you want to capture or send from your like Cdp

70 00:10:03.320 00:10:13.270 Tope Longe: into customer, and once that is done, then it is relatively easy, you know, to just start building out the campaigns, the segments.

71 00:10:13.510 00:10:20.520 Tope Longe: Right? So for for for a successful campaign, I think, and

72 00:10:20.730 00:10:25.599 Tope Longe: the planning that happens at the beginning of the intercession between the data you need.

73 00:10:25.810 00:10:28.919 Tope Longe: and the campaigns that are important for the business

74 00:10:29.640 00:10:39.550 Tope Longe: is what matters most before you start. In the same way, when you get into a system where everything is messed up, and then the data is all over, the place

75 00:10:40.150 00:10:43.170 Tope Longe: being able to being able to. Also.

76 00:10:43.750 00:10:47.460 Tope Longe: you know, outline like a credit up plan that matches

77 00:10:47.680 00:10:50.259 Tope Longe: the key campaigns that you need to run

78 00:10:51.618 00:10:55.889 Tope Longe: and then consolidate that you know within the within the platform.

79 00:10:56.820 00:10:59.299 Tope Longe: So that’s basically what makes a difference.

80 00:10:59.890 00:11:08.850 Robert Tseng: Okay? No, I I think I see that. I mean when I’m doing event data instrumentation. Like, I also start with the tracking plan. I think it’s interesting that

81 00:11:09.030 00:11:12.899 Robert Tseng: I guess you also map out like which events to kind of like.

82 00:11:13.110 00:11:15.790 Robert Tseng: And or you also kind of just tie it to.

83 00:11:16.280 00:11:20.079 Robert Tseng: Are you already planning out the campaigns from like the tracking step on like what?

84 00:11:20.080 00:11:20.660 Robert Tseng: Yes, yes.

85 00:11:20.660 00:11:45.190 Robert Tseng: what events you will need, what trace you will need. So yeah, I don’t think, yeah. The tracking plan that I build specifically doesn’t really think about that. That step. So I’m curious, like, what what that looks like for you. I don’t know if you’d be willing to kind of like share, like every I mean. I can show you like what I’m curious. I would show you like a tracking plan that I use versus like, oh, like this is what how this is, what it looks like.

86 00:11:45.190 00:11:45.690 Tope Longe: Okay.

87 00:11:45.690 00:11:49.171 Robert Tseng: For for you like I think that’d be an interesting

88 00:11:49.720 00:11:52.590 Robert Tseng: like I. I’m just curious, like, what like, what would?

89 00:11:53.190 00:12:06.250 Robert Tseng: What would it look like to bring like the lifecycle marketers perspective earlier in the event data design process. Does it make sense? I think to me that you want to, you know, capture all of that. And then tracking.

90 00:12:07.800 00:12:08.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

91 00:12:08.660 00:12:15.640 Robert Tseng: So I think that’s 1 thing. And then also, like I think there’s

92 00:12:16.200 00:12:22.770 Robert Tseng: there’s like an issue, or even though you have the Cdp like a segment which my issue with segment is that

93 00:12:23.364 00:12:52.630 Robert Tseng: it’s not really the control center for most companies that I work with. Maybe they started off on segment, had a lot of the pre built connectors, and so, like, they were routing data through segment. But eventually along the way from like a marketing perspective, you start to test different channels. You don’t end up using like segment connectors for everything. Maybe you end up bringing other transactional data that isn’t in the event format. And so you start to like, mix in different types of data that, I think are important

94 00:12:52.770 00:13:01.199 Robert Tseng: that could probably probably be important to like to from a lifecycle perspective. And it doesn’t end up like getting

95 00:13:01.550 00:13:13.709 Robert Tseng: pushed into like cust like customer like it pretty much. You just get limited by only event data that’s tracked and managed in in a Cdp like segment.

96 00:13:14.151 00:13:24.419 Robert Tseng: And therefore, like, you know you don’t like you. You don’t. It’s maybe not as robust as it as it could be. If you just kind of went directly from from the warehouse.

97 00:13:25.510 00:13:27.239 Robert Tseng: I don’t know what you think about that.

98 00:13:28.210 00:13:33.110 Tope Longe: So I think so to to speak to the 1st thing you shared.

99 00:13:35.730 00:13:47.279 Tope Longe: And the I’m trying to like, you know, pick the right words to explain this. So

100 00:13:51.200 00:13:55.190 Tope Longe: I think the easiest way to explain this is like, show you something right.

101 00:13:55.190 00:13:55.910 Robert Tseng: Okay.

102 00:13:58.180 00:14:01.760 Tope Longe: And then this is pretty much following, like a standard that

103 00:14:03.013 00:14:06.329 Tope Longe: customer that either themselves reach and share.

104 00:14:06.630 00:14:21.980 Tope Longe: But ultimately, and the biggest problem that I see is aligning this across with the the data that people

105 00:14:22.646 00:14:27.409 Tope Longe: have across all these other systems. Right? So make sure it is consistent.

106 00:14:27.710 00:14:28.849 Tope Longe: Right. So

107 00:14:30.980 00:14:37.499 Tope Longe: the intersection between the data and then the campaigns you need to run and making sure that that data is consistent.

108 00:14:38.250 00:14:43.370 Tope Longe: you know, across board such that you, you’re able to.

109 00:14:45.330 00:14:48.070 Tope Longe: you’re able to match it to

110 00:14:50.090 00:14:53.279 Tope Longe: Say, for example, the product analytics data in your

111 00:14:53.440 00:14:56.450 Tope Longe: product analytics tool to be able to track

112 00:14:56.950 00:15:01.510 Tope Longe: and and attributes the results from some of these campaigns that you are running.

113 00:15:01.850 00:15:05.240 Tope Longe: It’s very important. And that’s 1 1 area where I see that.

114 00:15:05.390 00:15:09.299 Tope Longe: And people have challenges to, because

115 00:15:10.260 00:15:20.059 Tope Longe: the data, the way they’ve named this data, or rather the way it is set up is not consistent, which is one of the things that I think typically a Cdp should solve right cause.

116 00:15:20.540 00:15:24.180 Robert Tseng: Like segment should solve. Because, you know, the data goes in.

117 00:15:24.760 00:15:30.729 Tope Longe: So this central place, and then it goes, you know, and then you could do reverse, Etl. And then everything stays consistent.

118 00:15:31.810 00:15:33.900 Tope Longe: But in practice right?

119 00:15:34.140 00:15:41.450 Tope Longe: And it’s not always like that, even though we know it is best practice. And that’s because

120 00:15:46.310 00:15:47.889 Tope Longe: marketing owns.

121 00:15:48.030 00:15:51.410 Tope Longe: You know, the lifecycle automation.

122 00:15:51.560 00:15:54.919 Tope Longe: And then, in most cases, you know, the data team is just

123 00:15:55.060 00:16:01.269 Tope Longe: there, and in my experience, a lot of times they don’t get to work together

124 00:16:01.590 00:16:05.539 Tope Longe: to figure out how to make this work. And so marketing just ends up capturing

125 00:16:05.880 00:16:08.489 Tope Longe: and sending whatever events matters to them

126 00:16:09.380 00:16:14.520 Tope Longe: into like a customer dot I. And eventually attribution becomes a big problem.

127 00:16:15.540 00:16:16.220 Tope Longe: Right?

128 00:16:16.810 00:16:23.960 Tope Longe: So so that’s as far as that goes. And then what I wanted to share basically is the

129 00:16:24.970 00:16:25.849 Tope Longe: is it?

130 00:16:29.300 00:16:31.289 Tope Longe: Please let me know when you can see my screen.

131 00:16:32.060 00:16:32.680 Robert Tseng: Okay.

132 00:16:40.260 00:16:41.109 Robert Tseng: Not yet.

133 00:16:41.630 00:16:42.340 Tope Longe: Okay.

134 00:16:48.890 00:16:51.789 Tope Longe: I don’t know. Is it that I don’t have shared permission.

135 00:16:53.250 00:16:56.220 Robert Tseng: I think I put all participants can join there.

136 00:16:56.220 00:16:58.069 Tope Longe: Okay. I think you should be able to see it now.

137 00:16:58.250 00:16:59.290 Robert Tseng: Yep, I see it.

138 00:17:02.620 00:17:05.900 Tope Longe: So basically like, this is a tracking plan

139 00:17:06.800 00:17:09.089 Tope Longe: that looks at the intercession of

140 00:17:09.569 00:17:14.799 Tope Longe: you know what campaigns we need to run and what data is needed.

141 00:17:15.250 00:17:19.419 Tope Longe: And then in most cases this is just an example.

142 00:17:20.079 00:17:28.550 Tope Longe: And when you prepare a tracking plan like this, sometimes it may not match the way they’ve named it exactly. And then sometimes you need, like a developer

143 00:17:28.770 00:17:37.150 Tope Longe: that you provide additional context to to say, Okay, these are the things I need to capture, because that’s exactly how the customer journey runs right.

144 00:17:37.330 00:17:37.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

145 00:17:38.630 00:17:41.400 Tope Longe: And so you want to make sure that

146 00:17:41.700 00:17:46.979 Tope Longe: the events that you need to send into like a tool like customer that I, to start with

147 00:17:47.420 00:17:53.769 Tope Longe: follows the customer journey. I’ll I’d explain how this particular one works. Right? So these guys

148 00:17:54.000 00:18:00.493 Tope Longe: run, you know, like this platform where people could sign up and take and take

149 00:18:01.410 00:18:05.169 Tope Longe: and have access to prep materials to take professional courses.

150 00:18:05.570 00:18:18.790 Tope Longe: And so from the sign up events, I want to know what the entry source, because typically people can enter through 3 3 different sources. Either they like download the cheat sheets and start the free trial, or or take a free test.

151 00:18:18.900 00:18:21.409 Tope Longe: or they purchase a practice test

152 00:18:21.870 00:18:26.310 Tope Longe: right? And so based on that, you’re able to like, map it further down.

153 00:18:26.752 00:18:31.599 Tope Longe: See what they’ve done at every point in time. And then what are like? The key

154 00:18:31.730 00:18:36.100 Tope Longe: event attributes that you need, perhaps to trigger some of this?

155 00:18:36.360 00:18:40.870 Tope Longe: No, if you have, like a Cdp setup.

156 00:18:41.020 00:18:46.219 Tope Longe: And then all this information is in there. You can pretty much define the payload that you need.

157 00:18:47.080 00:18:49.330 Tope Longe: and they send it into customer. I/O.

158 00:18:49.820 00:18:57.440 Tope Longe: It’s also very interesting. And and it’s also very important to know that for sometimes

159 00:18:59.180 00:19:08.700 Tope Longe: for each key event. So, for example, if you send only sign up event now and then, and

160 00:19:10.140 00:19:12.990 Tope Longe: I’m trying to trigger a campaign based on this event.

161 00:19:13.830 00:19:19.669 Tope Longe: If in that payload only, this event attribute data is accessible on that event

162 00:19:20.280 00:19:27.010 Tope Longe: like, if only the event attribute. And that’s what I’m limited with working with, you know, within that trigger.

163 00:19:27.460 00:19:28.430 Tope Longe: right?

164 00:19:28.640 00:19:43.890 Tope Longe: And so sometimes you need to be able to figure out how you want to put all these together within one payload, such that in customer that I able to access all these event attributes in case you need to use them as filters

165 00:19:44.050 00:19:50.120 Tope Longe: and use them as filters, use them to set up conditions and things like that.

166 00:19:51.060 00:19:55.839 Tope Longe: And so these people essentially capture like loads and loads of events.

167 00:19:55.970 00:20:00.880 Tope Longe: but these are like the important ones that align with the customer journey.

168 00:20:01.170 00:20:06.079 Tope Longe: and then are important for the for the campaigns that we need to run, which is essentially around

169 00:20:07.452 00:20:11.709 Tope Longe: onboarding activation, moving users from one tire.

170 00:20:11.840 00:20:16.599 Tope Longe: And so, for example, from a free plan or a cheat sheet to being a a

171 00:20:16.750 00:20:21.299 Tope Longe: page user that buys a practice test. And then things like that.

172 00:20:22.020 00:20:31.230 Tope Longe: So I hope that answers like your 1st question around the challenge, and then and typically how?

173 00:20:32.820 00:20:33.790 Tope Longe: And

174 00:20:37.120 00:20:41.500 Tope Longe: it’s best to approach it, you know, using a Cdp where everything is in one place.

175 00:20:41.620 00:20:45.899 Tope Longe: and they are able to like, you know, build out whatever payload that you need

176 00:20:46.670 00:20:52.299 Tope Longe: to trigger and work with the campaigns and customer. That I/O. And then that’s exactly what you track for. Each event

177 00:20:52.750 00:20:54.489 Tope Longe: that follows the customer journey.

178 00:20:55.570 00:20:59.104 Robert Tseng: Got it. Okay, yeah, no. I think that’s a good way to break it down.

179 00:20:59.670 00:21:07.550 Robert Tseng: yeah. I think a couple other things that are less kind of like granular into this workflow. Yeah. So

180 00:21:07.940 00:21:08.980 Robert Tseng: I think.

181 00:21:09.460 00:21:15.130 Robert Tseng: well, 1st of all, I want to respond. I think, yeah, basically what you showed me was alright. You have some.

182 00:21:15.550 00:21:27.240 Robert Tseng: You look, you pay attention to events that you have mapped to the customer journey. And you’re basically just identifying which ones those are. So you can advise the data team like what the payload should look like.

183 00:21:27.240 00:21:27.560 Tope Longe: Yes.

184 00:21:28.530 00:21:32.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, if there are limitations to what properties are tracking on events.

185 00:21:33.058 00:21:42.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you basically would need to do the enrichment and then add it back to the event to be able to push it into customer I/O, because customer I/O only consumes event data. So I think that.

186 00:21:42.260 00:21:42.640 Tope Longe: Yes.

187 00:21:42.640 00:21:48.220 Robert Tseng: I mean, that’s that aligns with. I mean, I I think I do that. So no surprise there.

188 00:21:48.915 00:21:52.379 Robert Tseng: I think there’s yeah. I mean, then you can.

189 00:21:52.490 00:21:57.439 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you like the Cdp approach because you can go and like predetermine what all these?

190 00:22:00.670 00:22:09.150 Robert Tseng: what what it should, what it should look like. There’s there’s more of a self service piece to it. And then, like, there, you didn’t really talk about

191 00:22:09.763 00:22:20.896 Robert Tseng: being handed an audience or a segment that was pre computed in like a Cdp that you that you use in customer? I/O, so I don’t really think

192 00:22:21.640 00:22:25.879 Robert Tseng: yeah, I don’t I don’t. I don’t think you we we touched on that which is fine, but I think.

193 00:22:25.880 00:22:28.359 Tope Longe: Okay, so so to speak, to that.

194 00:22:28.520 00:22:32.810 Tope Longe: to speak to that customer, dot I/O allows you to pretty much

195 00:22:34.490 00:22:37.129 Tope Longe: segment. Your list, however, you want based on

196 00:22:37.820 00:22:44.470 Tope Longe: a combination of both events and event attributes, and then attributes themselves right.

197 00:22:44.620 00:22:45.859 Robert Tseng: And then.

198 00:22:46.360 00:22:51.059 Tope Longe: You know, depending on also how you need to run your campaigns.

199 00:22:51.650 00:22:54.249 Tope Longe: You are also going to outline all of these.

200 00:22:54.810 00:23:02.985 Tope Longe: and then, based on that. You could, you know, just set up the filters and say, I want to build this this segments. So, for example.

201 00:23:03.460 00:23:07.890 Tope Longe: you’ve built a segment of your power users right from

202 00:23:08.300 00:23:11.709 Tope Longe: wherever and then you want to actually be able to.

203 00:23:12.810 00:23:17.500 Tope Longe: You know, target that segment with perhaps a campaign in customerio

204 00:23:18.286 00:23:23.130 Tope Longe: whatever variables you use to define your power users.

205 00:23:24.080 00:23:27.960 Tope Longe: Just send that also into customer, dot iu, and then set up a filter.

206 00:23:28.170 00:23:36.900 Tope Longe: Now, the segments could be manual or data. Driven data. Driven means. People would move in and move out if they fulfill the criterias.

207 00:23:37.270 00:23:38.130 Tope Longe: 4.

208 00:23:38.130 00:23:42.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah, how do you deal with overlap between different segments?

209 00:23:43.660 00:23:59.379 Tope Longe: You could do in this and out of that, right in you can do that and all easily within customer. I/O. You build out different segments, and say if they are in this and not in this, or if they are in this and or whatever, it’s very flexible.

210 00:24:00.330 00:24:00.949 Robert Tseng: Got it.

211 00:24:01.140 00:24:04.589 Robert Tseng: Hmm, okay? And and that’s what I.

212 00:24:04.590 00:24:11.790 Tope Longe: Love about the platform like, you know, it gives you that level of flexibility. But of course.

213 00:24:12.365 00:24:16.749 Tope Longe: it it becomes easier when at the get go. You’ve planned it

214 00:24:16.880 00:24:21.049 Tope Longe: in such a way that it becomes very easy to implement and customize.

215 00:24:22.440 00:24:25.189 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay, I can see that.

216 00:24:26.177 00:24:30.560 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think question about, like, you know, working with Mcaugh is like.

217 00:24:30.780 00:24:44.670 Robert Tseng: we’re thinking about partnering with Mcaw. I don’t really know too much about them. Just kind of reached out, I mean, because you work for them. I’m curious, like what it was like working with them. I suppose you were contracted with them and then eventually left. I

218 00:24:47.160 00:24:47.890 Robert Tseng: yeah.

219 00:24:48.240 00:24:50.549 Tope Longe: I worked as a contractor with Mago.

220 00:24:52.150 00:24:55.930 Tope Longe: Very fantastic team. Dan is an amazing person.

221 00:24:57.160 00:25:11.349 Tope Longe: and it was. It was like a an all around very beautiful experience for me, because I did learn a lot. I did give a lot, too, but I think I I learned a lot more, and and working with Dan. And I had the privilege of actually working with Dan directly.

222 00:25:12.064 00:25:18.369 Tope Longe: you know. So it was. It was a. It was a really nice experience. They had like a very nice culture, too.

223 00:25:19.160 00:25:20.270 Tope Longe: And

224 00:25:20.560 00:25:33.279 Tope Longe: interestingly, I actually did meet Dan on on Linkedin, you know, just like we’re having a conversation like this because he shared something. I commented on it, and then we got chatting in the in the in the Dms. And then from there.

225 00:25:33.460 00:25:36.899 Tope Longe: you know I got the opportunity to work with him, so.

226 00:25:36.900 00:25:37.430 Robert Tseng: Cool.

227 00:25:37.880 00:25:42.019 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess you’re kind of in a different. Yeah, you’re at a different company now.

228 00:25:43.140 00:25:45.220 Robert Tseng: full time and then part time up work. That’s.

229 00:25:46.320 00:25:47.309 Tope Longe: Yeah, that’s okay.

230 00:25:47.310 00:25:55.219 Tope Longe: That’s my current situation. Because I moved here. I moved here like, like, I said 1 1 year and a half ago, and so

231 00:25:55.625 00:26:02.509 Tope Longe: I have to like, be in full time for a couple of months more before I can say, Okay, I want to do my thing.

232 00:26:03.330 00:26:03.940 Robert Tseng: Got it.

233 00:26:04.080 00:26:04.650 Tope Longe: Yeah.

234 00:26:05.180 00:26:12.030 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Well, I mean, it’s good initially meeting you for now, I think, yeah, it’s definitely probably

235 00:26:12.310 00:26:19.720 Robert Tseng: yeah, we’re we’re starting to think about like what this playbook to like and do more marketing data activation looks like.

236 00:26:22.230 00:26:23.834 Robert Tseng: yeah, I think.

237 00:26:24.510 00:26:34.390 Robert Tseng: I got to hear about your experience with, yeah, involving lifecycle marketing earlier in the data design process.

238 00:26:35.159 00:26:40.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah, seems like, you’re an expert in like being able to constructs

239 00:26:40.640 00:26:49.689 Robert Tseng: profile properties and event properties in a in a way that’s helpful for like customer I/O, or just kind of campaign campaign deployment

240 00:26:50.649 00:26:53.389 Robert Tseng: and then, yeah, I mean, I guess

241 00:26:54.340 00:27:06.380 Robert Tseng: I, yeah, we didn’t really talk about like, kind of your end to end kind of experience, like planning and executing like campaigns. But that’s okay, like, I generally believe you can do that. Yeah.

242 00:27:06.380 00:27:08.940 Tope Longe: Yeah. Yeah. So in in most cases.

243 00:27:09.120 00:27:11.370 Tope Longe: in fact, for most of the

244 00:27:11.950 00:27:14.360 Tope Longe: for most of the clients I work with.

245 00:27:14.600 00:27:18.740 Tope Longe: I work with them at the point where Dave.

246 00:27:19.520 00:27:26.559 Tope Longe: they’ve actually started doing a few things in Customer I/O. And then they just needed to get like a lot more out of it.

247 00:27:26.740 00:27:30.969 Tope Longe: Now, the beauty, the beautiful thing about it is for some of them.

248 00:27:31.720 00:27:38.049 Tope Longe: It’s a mess like the data is all over the place, and that can be very frustrating even for me, cause

249 00:27:39.616 00:27:42.809 Tope Longe: as a contractor. On the one hand.

250 00:27:43.470 00:27:47.889 Tope Longe: you know, you want to make sure that you deliver value to the client as quickly as possible.

251 00:27:48.530 00:27:57.339 Tope Longe: But then, on the other hand, you need to also balance it out with the fact that whatever we are doing right now is short them. They need to also focus on the long term. And how

252 00:27:58.430 00:28:08.480 Tope Longe: you know that that could make a difference for the others, especially those that understand the event based marketing properly. Those ones I delight to work with.

253 00:28:08.830 00:28:13.280 Tope Longe: And I guess that would be the case with you. Cause you guys have, like the understanding of the data.

254 00:28:13.770 00:28:33.109 Tope Longe: And so it’s easy to just instrument and send in what’s necessary into this into customer, that I, if we need to iterate and add anything, or most mostly add cause. Even if you need to remove something, it can just be there. It doesn’t. It doesn’t change anything right. If you need to add anything you can always, you know, update this, and then

255 00:28:34.150 00:28:42.724 Tope Longe: it’s it’s a delight working with them because you can move pretty fast. You can build out for the long term, and then they can start seeing the results right?

256 00:28:43.010 00:28:43.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

257 00:28:44.280 00:28:45.530 Tope Longe: And then

258 00:28:45.730 00:28:53.290 Tope Longe: for the ones who are just trying to figure it out from the onset. I’ve only worked with somebody one person like that so far.

259 00:28:53.520 00:28:58.880 Tope Longe: and then the experience has been good cause that that we were able to like design everything from the ground up.

260 00:28:59.690 00:29:00.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

261 00:29:00.260 00:29:03.769 Tope Longe: And then it just outlines and we’re able to execute on these campaigns.

262 00:29:04.340 00:29:12.229 Tope Longe: So for me, I understand the data bits. But then, in most cases I do not do like the

263 00:29:12.560 00:29:16.270 Tope Longe: coding, you know, to send the data into customerio.

264 00:29:16.660 00:29:26.069 Tope Longe: Yeah, in most cases, I have, like, you know, people who understand this data bit and the depths to work with, and then once they set it up and everything looks great. Yes, I am.

265 00:29:26.330 00:29:38.920 Tope Longe: I can, you know, sit in customer iod, and get everything that needs to be done. And then that involves from setting up the logic and flows to even the copy itself and even design.

266 00:29:39.750 00:29:42.770 Tope Longe: In some cases you’re right.

267 00:29:42.940 00:29:51.366 Tope Longe: The only problem with that is I tend to move slower when it comes to actually doing the designs myself, but for, like smaller people, I get to do all those myself.

268 00:29:52.240 00:30:05.459 Tope Longe: and then usually that’s where much much of what I do ends, cause we customize. You know, you’re able to like, build out these segments, and they use those segments as a basis to measure conversion

269 00:30:05.780 00:30:06.670 Tope Longe: right.

270 00:30:07.070 00:30:07.710 Robert Tseng: Yeah.

271 00:30:07.710 00:30:22.309 Tope Longe: Based on some of these events also. So, for example, if you’re trying to move people from maybe like a basic subscription to a premium subscription. You have the segment for anybody who has this event attribute premium and whatever, and then you’re able to use that to like, draw

272 00:30:22.440 00:30:25.309 Tope Longe: what the conversion looks like. And then typically

273 00:30:25.480 00:30:30.130 Tope Longe: and for the teams that has that worked with that also connects to like mixed panel.

274 00:30:30.290 00:30:34.000 Tope Longe: they’re able to actually now put like a monetary value.

275 00:30:34.890 00:30:39.400 Tope Longe: you know, around it to look okay. So what’s like the customer lifetime value and things like that.

276 00:30:40.300 00:30:44.380 Tope Longe: So that’s as far as what I do, you know, in customer I goes.

277 00:30:45.350 00:30:46.030 Robert Tseng: Okay.

278 00:30:47.670 00:30:58.059 Robert Tseng: Alright. Yeah. Good to know, I think. Yeah. The next steps for me. There’s like a client that I have in mind there, if anything I might try to bring you on, or like, you know. See if you want to be interested in doing like an

279 00:30:58.180 00:31:02.209 Robert Tseng: kind of an audit of like the current customer. I/O situation, I think.

280 00:31:02.520 00:31:06.749 Tope Longe: Oh, good Lord! It’s always a mess, especially if the data is terrible.

281 00:31:08.000 00:31:12.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, yeah, I think I need some time to think. Think about.

282 00:31:12.310 00:31:12.870 Tope Longe: Hey! Look!

283 00:31:13.260 00:31:17.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah, think about how how to structure it, and then I’ll I’ll send you some ideas.

284 00:31:17.310 00:31:18.790 Tope Longe: Yeah. Sounds good to me.

285 00:31:19.360 00:31:25.890 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool? Well, good meeting Utopia. And I think I gotta get going. But yeah, it’s good good chatting.

286 00:31:26.290 00:31:28.350 Tope Longe: Same here. Yeah. Cheers. Man.