Meeting Title: Robert Tseng and Ashley Kim Date: 2025-04-29 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Ashley Kim
WEBVTT
1 00:01:38.680 ⇒ 00:01:39.759 Robert Tseng: Hey! Ashley!
2 00:01:41.020 ⇒ 00:01:42.170 Ashley Kim: Hi Robert!
3 00:01:44.190 ⇒ 00:01:48.710 Robert Tseng: Sorry I’m a little late. Yeah, good. Good to meet you. Thanks for hopping on this call.
4 00:01:50.230 ⇒ 00:01:51.390 Ashley Kim: Oh, absolutely
5 00:01:52.090 ⇒ 00:01:58.909 Ashley Kim: And so congratulations! And it sounds like you were admitted into Fordham. Law. Is that correct?
6 00:01:59.241 ⇒ 00:02:01.897 Robert Tseng: I’m actually not. I’m wait listed, but
7 00:02:02.230 ⇒ 00:02:02.790 Ashley Kim: I see.
8 00:02:02.940 ⇒ 00:02:06.630 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess it is where I would like to go. So
9 00:02:06.780 ⇒ 00:02:13.629 Robert Tseng: I’m yeah. I’m just still trying to connect with folks trying to learn more about the school. They’re actually doing like a
10 00:02:13.750 ⇒ 00:02:15.150 Robert Tseng: zoom
11 00:02:15.590 ⇒ 00:02:33.649 Robert Tseng: webinar thing for prospects tomorrow. So I don’t know. I’m just trying to express continual interest and and just learn more. You know, if if I’m given the opportunity to come here like will I choose. I I try to decide if I would choose for them over my other options as well.
12 00:02:34.390 ⇒ 00:02:35.789 Ashley Kim: Where are you? Considering?
13 00:02:36.560 ⇒ 00:02:41.380 Robert Tseng: So I probably will only stay around New York. I guess, for context. Like I,
14 00:02:41.510 ⇒ 00:02:48.569 Robert Tseng: I’ve only applied to part time like evening programs I think I might have. I don’t know if I mentioned that specifically. But
15 00:02:49.190 ⇒ 00:02:50.130 Robert Tseng: so like
16 00:02:50.350 ⇒ 00:02:57.279 Robert Tseng: Brook Brooklyn law would be like another like that. That’d be the the easy option for me to go to. I’m based in Manhattan.
17 00:02:57.740 ⇒ 00:03:03.739 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I would it would. I would prefer I mean it would. It would be ideal for me to to go to Fordham. I think.
18 00:03:05.820 ⇒ 00:03:08.410 Ashley Kim: Absolutely so. What can I help you with.
19 00:03:09.550 ⇒ 00:03:20.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So I’d love to just learn more a bit about yeah, your experience there. I mean, I saw that. Yeah, very. You’ve you’ve kind of have diverse background. You know.
20 00:03:20.710 ⇒ 00:03:36.919 Robert Tseng: we’re not in a pre law program and then ended up going to law school and I guess you’re a couple of years in at this point. So I’m curious like how your journey has been. I know you’re a full time student. But yeah, maybe just wanted to get to know your story a bit more.
21 00:03:37.670 ⇒ 00:03:41.199 Ashley Kim: Absolutely one sec. Let me just close the door. It’s a bit loud.
22 00:03:41.450 ⇒ 00:03:42.060 Robert Tseng: Sure.
23 00:03:46.550 ⇒ 00:03:47.540 Ashley Kim: Thank you.
24 00:03:54.220 ⇒ 00:04:23.049 Ashley Kim: Yeah. So I was pre-med in college. And then I kind of just switched or decided to apply to law school around my senior year, I believe. So that I graduated right when the pandemic started. So when I had just finished college, like, I wasn’t able to easily find a job where I had been interviewing at some firms like Whiting Case or those places. But
25 00:04:23.490 ⇒ 00:04:41.379 Ashley Kim: the economic turmoil, plus, like my lack of experience in anything. Law related kind of just didn’t work out. So I worked as a paralegal at a small firm near my house for 2 years, and it was very comfortable, very nice. I got to work in person because it was a small like. It was very small. They had like less than 10 people.
26 00:04:41.480 ⇒ 00:05:02.179 Ashley Kim: so we were like all like 6 feet apart, like masks on air purifiers. So that was a great experience. Then I came to Fordham, and I am a 1st generation law student. So no lawyers in the family. I was very lost. But basically, I just kind of
27 00:05:02.850 ⇒ 00:05:16.509 Ashley Kim: survived through the 1st year of law school, and then I, the only like student groups I was involved in during one all year was a pulsa, which is like the Asian American Student association. So through that I met
28 00:05:16.890 ⇒ 00:05:31.910 Ashley Kim: like 2 Ls. And 3 ls. And other people who had a lot more experience. So they helped me a lot in understanding what to expect or what to plan for. In law school I interned at Pfizer my 1st summer, which was a great experience.
29 00:05:32.290 ⇒ 00:05:58.709 Ashley Kim: So I was with the corporate governance group. Nothing like science related necessarily. But it was a lot of just like security regulation. How? What does the company have to do to remain in compliance with, like the sec or just to make sure that everything’s up to code. So that was an interesting experience they didn’t really like, give us anything super substantive to do, because it’s very confidential.
30 00:05:58.730 ⇒ 00:06:09.000 Ashley Kim: But it was nice to meet people or the attorneys at Pfizer, and to hear how, what kind of experiences they needed to have to be able to work in house at a company like that.
31 00:06:09.486 ⇒ 00:06:13.630 Ashley Kim: And I don’t know if you know this or not, but a lot of companies.
32 00:06:13.830 ⇒ 00:06:17.341 Ashley Kim: There are some companies that hire in house
33 00:06:18.680 ⇒ 00:06:45.279 Ashley Kim: for students straight out of law school, but that’s not a lot, because it takes a lot of time and money and resources to train attorneys. And so typically companies want people who already know what to do and already have experience, which is why in a lot of cases big law experience is required or recommended. It doesn’t have to be big law. It could be like a midsize firm. It could be a boutique firm
34 00:06:45.280 ⇒ 00:06:58.579 Ashley Kim: or something like that. And so I took some classes in IP law because of my science background. I’m not going to be working in IP Street out of graduation that might change. But I’m not really planning on it.
35 00:06:59.110 ⇒ 00:07:13.499 Ashley Kim: If you are interested in. IP. Fordham has a lot of great stuff. Maybe not as much as like some other schools. But there are a bunch of people very interested in it. They are more entertainment and media focused.
36 00:07:14.030 ⇒ 00:07:14.560 Robert Tseng: Okay.
37 00:07:14.720 ⇒ 00:07:20.124 Ashley Kim: But there are good resources for people interested in more hard science. IP
38 00:07:21.480 ⇒ 00:07:23.039 Ashley Kim: And then
39 00:07:23.170 ⇒ 00:07:38.710 Ashley Kim: I summered at Dla Piper, which is a big law firm. It’s an international firm. So that was a great experience as well. But I was with the litigation group. And there I did a lot of like products, liability kind of
40 00:07:39.050 ⇒ 00:07:49.270 Ashley Kim: life sciences, work and FDA regulatory work. And so that’s kind of what I’m hoping to do once I graduate. So I’ll be returning there after I graduate.
41 00:07:49.880 ⇒ 00:07:53.210 Ashley Kim: I took a bunch of classes on AI actually
42 00:07:53.490 ⇒ 00:08:00.979 Ashley Kim: starting starting last year. Because when I was at Pfizer AI was becoming a big thing.
43 00:08:01.090 ⇒ 00:08:11.989 Ashley Kim: and so they had me working on a bunch of projects there. And there are a few courses at Fordham that are AI focused. And I’ve been taking those because I think it’s important to.
44 00:08:12.190 ⇒ 00:08:18.270 Ashley Kim: I think it’s easier to learn it when you’re in school than trying to learn it when you’re trying to work
45 00:08:18.530 ⇒ 00:08:31.750 Ashley Kim: as well, it’s hard to balance that all. And then, yeah, that’s kind of it. So I’ll be graduating in a few weeks, and then I’ll be studying for the bar over the summer and then beginning work hopefully in the fall.
46 00:08:32.750 ⇒ 00:08:41.809 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay, well, congrats on the yeah. I guess you’re you’re almost done with the journey, and seems like you have something lined up to go back to. So yeah, seems like.
47 00:08:42.179 ⇒ 00:08:54.210 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m sure it wasn’t just like smooth sailing, whatever. But the way you summarize it, you had good times to explore your interests, and then you kind of found something that seems to combine what you were interested in before. And then kind of
48 00:08:54.400 ⇒ 00:09:04.179 Robert Tseng: yeah, obviously with more of a legal focus. Now, I’ll share a bit about my background. And like, maybe just try to connect some of the dots here. But I’m not a you know.
49 00:09:05.920 ⇒ 00:09:33.740 Robert Tseng: I’m like a few years out of also, probably older than you, and I’m not like a traditional law background, either. I run like an AI data company right now. So I think, the earlier of Ford on was setting 1st proximity. I live in New York. And then the opportunity to do something in the evening program but also like I have more of an interest in like public public interest law. Actually. So I don’t actually want to stay in tech the long tail of my career.
50 00:09:34.137 ⇒ 00:09:40.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think I’ve just met like quite a few lawyers or law students since moving to New York couple of years ago.
51 00:09:41.714 ⇒ 00:09:48.912 Robert Tseng: And yeah, I think people talk about how it’s been. I mean, obviously very polarizing
52 00:09:49.650 ⇒ 00:09:52.689 Robert Tseng: reviews of their law school experience in general, but
53 00:09:52.910 ⇒ 00:10:01.899 Robert Tseng: seems like those who actually finish their degree. And well, for the most part, don’t regret it. And yeah, I think I’ve I just.
54 00:10:02.490 ⇒ 00:10:15.099 Robert Tseng: I’ve I’ve been wanting to go back to school for something. So I think, long story short, like, I’ve tried a few different options, but feel like law. The law path is kind of where I’m trying to head down.
55 00:10:15.611 ⇒ 00:10:21.240 Robert Tseng: I do think that it’s a bit more structured, and I feel like pretty disconnected from
56 00:10:21.440 ⇒ 00:10:32.869 Robert Tseng: all the lingo that’s used there. Because, yeah, like, I, I don’t work for a paralegal firm. I’m not around like the industry. All that much right now. Just kind of more of like an outsider with interest.
57 00:10:34.130 ⇒ 00:10:37.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So I think that’s kind of where I’m at currently and
58 00:10:38.069 ⇒ 00:10:51.390 Robert Tseng: obviously still waiting to hear back from all the results of like this application cycle. But yeah, I think that’s that’s the extent of my, I mean, yeah, that’s the extent of where I’m at in my my law journey so far.
59 00:10:52.630 ⇒ 00:11:06.540 Ashley Kim: So Fordham has a lot of students that aren’t like traditional law students. I would say I’ve only met like a 3rd of the people I meet are people who like knew they were going to law school, or like.
60 00:11:06.540 ⇒ 00:11:07.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
61 00:11:07.090 ⇒ 00:11:34.859 Ashley Kim: Or were people who, like went straight out of college? The other 2 thirds are people who like took a few gap years, or like knew they wanted to go to law school, but wanted to get some work experience first, st or people who were like decades out of college and then like had been working another career or had families, and then just decided to pivot and come to law school, and to maybe like, for example, there are people that I met who like worked in publishing for like 10 to 15 years. And then they came to law school so that they could
62 00:11:35.450 ⇒ 00:11:47.939 Ashley Kim: be able to help other like creative, like writers, or learn more about that. And they’re fully successful and thrive. And I think law school, I will say
63 00:11:50.060 ⇒ 00:12:12.780 Ashley Kim: law school is more of a stepping stone to me to have a career, and I enjoy the flexibility that the career provides. Law school itself is terrible. Or some people thrive. I thought it was very stressful and very competitive especially because of the curve. So I have family. A lot of my family is in medicine. So
64 00:12:13.140 ⇒ 00:12:42.969 Ashley Kim: I I concede that medical school is harder than law school, but law school is so much more competitive because Fordham has this strict curving system where they curve to? I believe it’s a b or B minus. I don’t know it must. It’s a b. So if one person gets an A, then one person needs to get a B minus, and so on and so forth. So in a class of 90, like 5 people get an A and then like it. It’s on a bell curve. It’s
65 00:12:43.270 ⇒ 00:13:03.429 Ashley Kim: not. It’s it’s very competitive. But even if you don’t get the best grades there enough. There are definitely ways to still be able to find the opportunities that you want. But it is important to know that outside grades usually it’s more like connections networking.
66 00:13:05.290 ⇒ 00:13:34.639 Ashley Kim: Sounds like yours, which a lot of people a lot of places will find very valuable you could also intern or extern during the semesters. There’s also I don’t know if you know him, but there’s a professor at Fordham right now. His name is Aniket Kasari. I ra for him. He’s doing AI work actually, right now. You could. Oh, like I would recommend reaching out to him. That might be helpful. He teaches like a few court, or he like he was an adjunct professor. But I think he just became like a
67 00:13:34.800 ⇒ 00:13:37.800 Ashley Kim: he. He got tenure or something, I think.
68 00:13:38.020 ⇒ 00:13:40.409 Ashley Kim: And then I
69 00:13:40.600 ⇒ 00:13:50.880 Ashley Kim: yeah, so like, for example, like when you, if you come like, you could already for him, and you could like help him do work. He’s like trying to develop like, I believe it’s an AI program
70 00:13:51.670 ⇒ 00:13:56.620 Ashley Kim: for judges, or to study judges, or something like that. I forgot what it was.
71 00:13:56.950 ⇒ 00:13:57.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
72 00:13:57.280 ⇒ 00:14:08.130 Ashley Kim: So there’s also another adjunct professor that I took a class with. Her name is Professor Yanniski Shlomit.
73 00:14:08.730 ⇒ 00:14:15.799 Ashley Kim: I don’t remember, but she’s from Israel. She’s like an AI like genius. I learned a lot from her class as well.
74 00:14:16.516 ⇒ 00:14:18.420 Ashley Kim: So I don’t think
75 00:14:18.710 ⇒ 00:14:27.740 Ashley Kim: you have to be worried about anything like not being a traditional student. I also know a lot of evening students. That were able to or
76 00:14:28.910 ⇒ 00:14:49.979 Ashley Kim: yeah, most of them like one of them like, for example, works at the Uspto right now. I think she’s planning on trying to go into a firm, but she’ll have to quit her job if she wants to do that. So I think that’s something she’s considering. I also know someone else who is working full time. And then she just like
77 00:14:50.330 ⇒ 00:14:54.180 Ashley Kim: she’s coming to Dla as well. So
78 00:14:54.640 ⇒ 00:15:04.741 Ashley Kim: I think Fordham has a good evening division program where they’re all the students are very close to each other, and they kind of like, take care of each other and help each other out.
79 00:15:06.580 ⇒ 00:15:08.260 Ashley Kim: but yeah.
80 00:15:09.760 ⇒ 00:15:12.589 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, no, thank you for all the kind of I just
81 00:15:12.800 ⇒ 00:15:25.890 Robert Tseng: opens a couple of tabs and I’ll go and look at those professors later. Yeah, I mean, if you also, for just like the transparency on the yeah, the school experience itself pretty rough. But feels like, you know, you’re able to sell.
82 00:15:26.070 ⇒ 00:15:30.509 Robert Tseng: You know whether leveraging your past experience with the network kind of find the opportunities you want.
83 00:15:31.045 ⇒ 00:15:40.519 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess I’m curious a bit more on. Oh, yeah, I guess you kind of already talked about what your 1st year experience was. It’s kind of just like surviving.
84 00:15:40.978 ⇒ 00:15:52.449 Robert Tseng: Seems like you did meet people in the evening programs like, I know. Sorry, I’m like asking a lot of evening program questions. But like curious like, how do you overlap much with them? Like.
85 00:15:52.930 ⇒ 00:16:13.290 Robert Tseng: So I mean, sounds like there is still a good support system for the people in that program. As well. Do you know of any people that have like converted from evening to full time? Because maybe it like, it’s unrealistic to actually do an evening law program because of how rigorous it is. I’m curious to kind of hear some thoughts on that.
86 00:16:14.090 ⇒ 00:16:22.440 Ashley Kim: Absolutely so. The 1st year for J for full time. Students, you have. You’re basically in the same like
87 00:16:22.560 ⇒ 00:16:29.309 Ashley Kim: for the entire year. You’re in the same class classes as the same 90 people. And so
88 00:16:29.760 ⇒ 00:16:39.959 Ashley Kim: 1st year, like, I didn’t meet any evening students, except like, maybe during like a pulsa meetings or other club meetings. I I will say.
89 00:16:40.662 ⇒ 00:17:01.459 Ashley Kim: evening students do express frustration that a lot of sometimes like resources, or sometimes like certain like programs are during the day when they’re working. So it’s not a perfect program, but the network is strong and the school does try to accommodate as much as possible, and the professors are understanding.
90 00:17:01.922 ⇒ 00:17:13.497 Ashley Kim: I did meet more evening students my second and 3rd year through other classes. And just like being in clubs or journals.
91 00:17:14.480 ⇒ 00:17:20.889 Ashley Kim: and I do know people who switch from from the part-time student to full time.
92 00:17:21.430 ⇒ 00:17:39.509 Ashley Kim: It’s not. It’s not all of them, though, like maybe out of like 5 evening students that I’ve met, one of them would do that. The rest of them would continue to be part-time students, and then would either continue in the job that they had before, or they would pivot to another firm, or they would move on to something else.
93 00:17:41.060 ⇒ 00:17:44.469 Ashley Kim: I’m sorry. I think there was another question there that I wanted to answer, but
94 00:17:44.730 ⇒ 00:17:46.370 Ashley Kim: don’t remember what it was.
95 00:17:46.925 ⇒ 00:17:50.720 Ashley Kim: Yeah, the evening students. I I do know that they like
96 00:17:51.470 ⇒ 00:17:56.360 Ashley Kim: are tight knit because they need to provide each other resources and things like that.
97 00:17:56.810 ⇒ 00:18:01.225 Robert Tseng: Yeah, are they considered part of that 90 that you mentioned? Or is that separate?
98 00:18:02.990 ⇒ 00:18:11.710 Ashley Kim: They? They’re like they’re they’re the evening division is like House 9, like they’re their own separate 90 students. So like they all, I don’t know if they all.
99 00:18:11.710 ⇒ 00:18:12.190 Robert Tseng: On the same.
100 00:18:12.190 ⇒ 00:18:23.979 Ashley Kim: Classes together. So, for example, like, we’ll take all the core classes like the full time students take like property towards criminal law, constitutional law contracts.
101 00:18:24.700 ⇒ 00:18:26.570 Ashley Kim: civil procedure
102 00:18:27.100 ⇒ 00:18:46.889 Ashley Kim: and legislation and regulation. Like all during the 1st year, and the evening students kind of have that spread out during their 1st 2 years of the 4 year program so you might not be in the same class with the same like group of people. But you will overlap a lot with them, because from what I know, I think
103 00:18:47.220 ⇒ 00:18:52.087 Ashley Kim: evening students usually take 2 to 3 courses, a semester or.
104 00:18:52.530 ⇒ 00:18:53.350 Robert Tseng: Like that.
105 00:18:53.600 ⇒ 00:18:55.650 Ashley Kim: Yeah, so it’s a bit different.
106 00:18:56.770 ⇒ 00:18:57.920 Robert Tseng: Okay, got it?
107 00:18:58.253 ⇒ 00:19:02.729 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’ll have to double click into a couple of things that you’ve talked about like one is on the
108 00:19:02.890 ⇒ 00:19:12.140 Robert Tseng: the kind of the competition point. And yeah, you know, if you can get over yourself on the rigor in the classroom just like the opportunities. I’m curious like.
109 00:19:12.250 ⇒ 00:19:33.370 Robert Tseng: did you find it more difficult to access certain opportunities? And you thought, either because of like the academic competitiveness. Or you know, I think maybe this is like a mindset shift because I went to a pretty big 4 year anniversary. You know, it’s like 10,000 undergrads. Obviously, this class of those sizes are much smaller. It’s more, it’s a graduate program or whatnot. So I don’t know if you would have
110 00:19:33.570 ⇒ 00:19:44.210 Robert Tseng: any like, you know, advice from kind of someone who’s shifting paradigms from like like an undergrad institution into a grad. Obviously a law focused institution on, like.
111 00:19:44.330 ⇒ 00:19:46.230 Robert Tseng: you know, was.
112 00:19:46.590 ⇒ 00:19:52.810 Robert Tseng: did you find easier to access opportunities you wanted, or harder and like kind of how much of that is
113 00:19:53.030 ⇒ 00:20:01.520 Robert Tseng: like because of just unique to Fordham or like, you know, this is just something that you have to keep in mind as you’re like navigating kind of.
114 00:20:01.920 ⇒ 00:20:04.899 Robert Tseng: You know your your life as a as a law student.
115 00:20:07.300 ⇒ 00:20:13.179 Ashley Kim: By opportunities. Do you mean like employment or internships? Or do you mean.
116 00:20:13.180 ⇒ 00:20:20.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah, externship internship job. I mean, even journal, like, I mean, it seems like there’s a lot of things that you can get involved in.
117 00:20:20.925 ⇒ 00:20:24.829 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess I’m just curious, like, kind of how you navigated
118 00:20:25.090 ⇒ 00:20:35.199 Robert Tseng: out of all those like, what did you feel like? Maybe what led you to the decisions that you made on which ones you seemed like you, you did like a mix of everything. Yeah.
119 00:20:36.220 ⇒ 00:20:41.499 Robert Tseng: kind of open ended. Because necessarily know what I’m what what I what I’m
120 00:20:41.690 ⇒ 00:20:43.649 Robert Tseng: what what you’ll tell me. But yeah.
121 00:20:44.487 ⇒ 00:20:54.190 Ashley Kim: So I don’t know the differences on the 1st year between the full time students and part time students, because I haven’t really asked this, but for full time, students, the 1st year is like
122 00:20:54.360 ⇒ 00:21:02.990 Ashley Kim: crucial, because just because of the way that firms are changing like their hiring models, and due to just like changing timelines. So
123 00:21:03.420 ⇒ 00:21:04.779 Ashley Kim: 1st year is like.
124 00:21:05.120 ⇒ 00:21:13.062 Ashley Kim: I like, nobody does any leadership positions you could technically, which doesn’t hurt at all, but grades matter more
125 00:21:13.970 ⇒ 00:21:16.770 Ashley Kim: and because nowadays firm.
126 00:21:22.530 ⇒ 00:21:27.259 Ashley Kim: so like, they hire like a year ahead. If that makes sense, so they.
127 00:21:28.230 ⇒ 00:21:36.180 Ashley Kim: Like, for example, someone could already have an offer from a firm for the summer of 2026,
128 00:21:36.480 ⇒ 00:21:52.079 Ashley Kim: and then, if they do well, there they would get employed after graduation. So the timeline has shifted a lot since my 1st year. Even then it was starting to like like become more intense. But right now I’ve heard that it’s even worse
129 00:21:52.290 ⇒ 00:22:01.569 Ashley Kim: not to discourage you or anything. But it’s just something to be aware of the moment like you step into law school. So I’ve been told that law school is a Marathon, and it’s very true, especially the first, st like
130 00:22:01.770 ⇒ 00:22:14.579 Ashley Kim: 2 years or so, because that’s when you’re trying to secure everything for after graduation. 3rd year is when you’re just like every hopefully, everything’s all settled down. And then you can just actually enjoy classes or just live life.
131 00:22:15.220 ⇒ 00:22:41.150 Ashley Kim: so that is like something to consider the moment you step in, and a lot of that can be like through networking through, just like club stuff through just like cold emailing. Just direct applications. I will say, Fordham has a strong alumni network. So a lot of like Fordham. Alums and students are
132 00:22:41.350 ⇒ 00:22:54.271 Ashley Kim: pretty much everywhere in the city, and any Fordham people would be more than happy to speak to Fordham students like the network is strong. I’ve seen it, and it’s very strong, which is very nice.
133 00:22:55.800 ⇒ 00:22:57.550 Ashley Kim: and the
134 00:22:58.100 ⇒ 00:23:07.139 Ashley Kim: to apply to jobs and things like that it is easier because it’s more specific if that makes sense in undergrad. I found it difficult to find like internships or like
135 00:23:07.310 ⇒ 00:23:32.999 Ashley Kim: to apply straight out of graduation. But in law school it’s more structured. There’s like a like already pre-established like timeline, a way to apply what they’re looking for and how many people they will take from Fordham, and Fordham does pretty well in placing students in in like companies or firms that they want to go to. So I’ve heard, like most people are very happy with what they’re doing or where they’re going.
136 00:23:36.120 ⇒ 00:24:04.639 Ashley Kim: But I will say that it is important to not listen to everything. The school says the school’s career center lags behind a little bit. And so law students used to be hired through something called Oci on campus interviews. It’s like this, really like week of 2 weeks of like interviews where you have to like, apply months ahead for like interviews, and then they like slot you, and then you have your time. And then
137 00:24:04.940 ⇒ 00:24:33.610 Ashley Kim: it’s terrible. But typically students would only be like hired through that, or that was the formal way. But nowadays, or even my year, that’s when students, a lot of students with much higher gpas because they started later than most, and they relied on the campus ocis on like the ocis. They didn’t get hired and had to find jobs in other ways which sucks because you have to go through like 2 all year looking for a job.
138 00:24:33.890 ⇒ 00:24:36.410 Ashley Kim: So that is something to be mindful of.
139 00:24:36.620 ⇒ 00:24:52.740 Ashley Kim: to continue to be proactive. So always be networking. Always be applying like, Oh, you like email for them people at firms or companies that you’re interested in, or even if not Ford and people just like. So you have to be fast on that. So the school name helps the school itself.
140 00:24:54.320 ⇒ 00:25:13.850 Ashley Kim: Don’t rely on it too much. And then, like applying to leadership positions on clubs is important. For, like your resume, there are competition teams like trial advocacy, moot Court, Drs, which is dispute Resolution society.
141 00:25:13.850 ⇒ 00:25:34.179 Ashley Kim: I didn’t do any of them. A lot of people, do they enjoy it? And then you go to like national or international competitions. It does take a lot of time. So it’s all like, just like, do what you can handle. You can. Ta, you can be a research assistant, you can. There’s a writing competition to join a journal which is like a week long
142 00:25:34.420 ⇒ 00:25:47.519 Ashley Kim: competition where you have to just like write stuff. And it’s terrible but there are 6 journals at Fordham, so chances are that you’ll get onto at least one. Obviously the hardest one is a law review.
143 00:25:48.332 ⇒ 00:26:02.459 Ashley Kim: But even outside of that, the like people outside of law review, like the people who wanted to go into big law are in big law. So the journal name doesn’t matter as much as like before, I think.
144 00:26:03.088 ⇒ 00:26:09.179 Ashley Kim: And then the school gives credits for internships and externships. Only some of them, though, and they like.
145 00:26:09.770 ⇒ 00:26:16.930 Ashley Kim: I yeah, like, I applied to an internship. And I got it like for pro bono hours. Yeah.
146 00:26:17.890 ⇒ 00:26:22.337 Robert Tseng: Okay, got it cool? No. I mean, I yeah, I think sounds like,
147 00:26:23.450 ⇒ 00:26:26.999 Robert Tseng: yeah, like what I’m hearing. If I just repeat back to you like things.
148 00:26:27.610 ⇒ 00:26:34.370 Robert Tseng: Recruiting timelines have shifted. Yeah, like, I think what you said kind of the the sound bite would be like.
149 00:26:35.073 ⇒ 00:26:46.399 Robert Tseng: the name of the school helps but maybe the school resources don’t trust it so much like definitely be proactive. Keep doing. Keep networking, keep doing things on your own to try to like find the opportunities you want.
150 00:26:46.550 ⇒ 00:26:48.770 Robert Tseng: So I think that’s that’s good advice.
151 00:26:48.910 ⇒ 00:26:52.100 Robert Tseng: And then also, like, Yeah, you feel like it’s
152 00:26:52.270 ⇒ 00:27:01.950 Robert Tseng: bit more structured than undergrad was. Where, like, there are like pretty set ways that I go and get these opportunities. So you felt like that was clearer for you.
153 00:27:02.862 ⇒ 00:27:08.407 Robert Tseng: Yeah, if we have time for, like one more kind of like clump of questions. I know I kind of just like
154 00:27:09.400 ⇒ 00:27:12.130 Robert Tseng: group them together. I.
155 00:27:12.355 ⇒ 00:27:15.960 Ashley Kim: Just like as a note. I do have to head out in like 5 min, but.
156 00:27:15.960 ⇒ 00:27:21.300 Robert Tseng: Yes, yes, no, this will be. This is fast, I think. Quick, quick question on
157 00:27:23.500 ⇒ 00:27:28.470 Robert Tseng: Oh, I was curious to do.
158 00:27:33.240 ⇒ 00:27:41.949 Robert Tseng: I lost my train of thought. Oh, here, yeah, just you know, if you were to read you law school again, things that you would read, or kind of
159 00:27:42.240 ⇒ 00:27:49.780 Robert Tseng: as preparation heading in you have any like resources. You can also share them. Async. You don’t have to like pull them out in your head, but wanted to
160 00:27:50.140 ⇒ 00:27:52.199 Robert Tseng: wanted to ask for that. Yeah.
161 00:27:57.490 ⇒ 00:28:00.639 Ashley Kim: Like reading anything in preparation of law school.
162 00:28:01.500 ⇒ 00:28:08.299 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I I guess I tried to look for like foreign recommended pre reads. Didn’t see anything but like
163 00:28:08.460 ⇒ 00:28:12.560 Robert Tseng: I mean, every school kind of has a different set of lists. Maybe there’s like certain, like.
164 00:28:12.950 ⇒ 00:28:24.409 Robert Tseng: I would think, like a lawyer like mindset books or whatever. But nothing really, that specific is kind of what I’ve tried to. That’s what I’ve discovered on my own. So I was curious from someone who’s gone through it like
165 00:28:24.750 ⇒ 00:28:27.510 Robert Tseng: you’d be like, hey? I wish this I’d review this before.
166 00:28:28.160 ⇒ 00:28:44.359 Ashley Kim: There is a book that they have like every year read before coming in. I forgot what it’s called. It’s like something monet. It like breaks down like the court system, or like law and things like that. I didn’t read the full thing. It’s not super necessary. I will say
167 00:28:48.140 ⇒ 00:28:54.750 Ashley Kim: I don’t really think there’s anything you need to read material wise if you wanted to. There are like
168 00:28:55.847 ⇒ 00:29:24.192 Ashley Kim: like supplementary materials like you can find on Amazon. I forgot what it’s called. We have like smiley faces on them, and then they like explain like different practices of law that might be helpful. Because a lot of people in the law school, although there are nontraditional students, there are a lot of people whose like parents are literally like firm partners, or like attorneys, or have their own firms. And so those people obviously have an advantage so like
169 00:29:25.010 ⇒ 00:29:33.390 Ashley Kim: like it, it really is there like they are faster. They know what’s going on. They know what to look for.
170 00:29:34.040 ⇒ 00:29:44.570 Ashley Kim: if you wanted to. That is something you could do but I I would say that it’s not necessary. It’s more of a mindset thing like when you come in
171 00:29:45.090 ⇒ 00:29:52.139 Ashley Kim: just being open to talk to people, ask questions, ask for help. I did that a bunch, and it really saved me.
172 00:29:52.700 ⇒ 00:29:54.409 Ashley Kim: But okay, yeah.
173 00:29:54.800 ⇒ 00:30:03.720 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I’m I would be 1st generation as well. So kind of going in kind of blind, maybe similar to how you were. When you went in so I appreciate that perspective.
174 00:30:04.630 ⇒ 00:30:08.069 Ashley Kim: Not at all. And then like for me, I didn’t really read
175 00:30:08.610 ⇒ 00:30:20.320 Ashley Kim: books in law school. I just read mostly like outlines. So once you come to law school like the number. One thing is outlines. So people’s notes from prior semesters like those become like
176 00:30:20.500 ⇒ 00:30:22.350 Ashley Kim: people, fight over them. People will like.
177 00:30:22.350 ⇒ 00:30:22.700 Robert Tseng: Bye.
178 00:30:22.700 ⇒ 00:30:25.211 Ashley Kim: Each other fake ones like it’s ridiculous.
179 00:30:25.570 ⇒ 00:30:26.090 Robert Tseng: Yes.
180 00:30:26.090 ⇒ 00:30:26.610 Ashley Kim: Okay.
181 00:30:27.210 ⇒ 00:30:30.419 Robert Tseng: Huh? Haven’t heard anything about that. So okay.
182 00:30:30.420 ⇒ 00:30:45.719 Ashley Kim: I haven’t come across it. Personally, I’ve heard bad stories, though, but like some people like to take their own notes. Some people like to use other people’s notes. I’m the latter. I like using other people’s outlines just so that I don’t have to think as much. And I can just focus on the content.
183 00:30:45.720 ⇒ 00:30:46.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
184 00:30:46.060 ⇒ 00:30:47.509 Ashley Kim: But to each their own.
185 00:30:48.320 ⇒ 00:30:53.659 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Well, I appreciate your time. Ashley. Yeah, I know it was kind of
186 00:30:53.920 ⇒ 00:31:09.759 Robert Tseng: random. But yeah, no, I I think this is helpful. If you don’t mind, I might just like digest some of the things that you said. Maybe ask a couple of follow up questions or something, but other than that, I wish you all the best and your journey and congrats on finishing your your law school.
187 00:31:10.320 ⇒ 00:31:12.099 Ashley Kim: Absolutely. It was great meeting you.
188 00:31:12.390 ⇒ 00:31:12.910 Robert Tseng: Hey! Ashley!
189 00:31:12.910 ⇒ 00:31:13.490 Ashley Kim: Good luck!
190 00:31:13.850 ⇒ 00:31:14.870 Robert Tseng: Okay, thanks.
191 00:31:15.100 ⇒ 00:31:15.800 Robert Tseng: Right?