Meeting Title: Zoom Meeting Date: 2025-04-28 Meeting participants: Demilade Agboola, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:34.360 ⇒ 00:00:35.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yo.
2 00:00:35.630 ⇒ 00:00:36.300 Demilade Agboola: Hello!
3 00:00:37.710 ⇒ 00:00:40.620 Uttam Kumaran: Welcome to the best country on earth.
4 00:00:42.940 ⇒ 00:00:44.812 Demilade Agboola: Well, it’s not bad. It’s not bad.
5 00:00:47.740 ⇒ 00:00:50.010 Uttam Kumaran: No power outage here, yet.
6 00:00:50.030 ⇒ 00:00:52.250 Demilade Agboola: Yes, you never could tell.
7 00:00:53.880 ⇒ 00:00:58.239 Demilade Agboola: You never could tell. But yeah, I got in on Saturday.
8 00:00:58.240 ⇒ 00:00:58.970 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
9 00:00:59.280 ⇒ 00:01:05.220 Demilade Agboola: I landed like 3 like 3 o’clock central time.
10 00:01:05.430 ⇒ 00:01:07.600 Uttam Kumaran: Where it’s direct to Minneapolis.
11 00:01:08.560 ⇒ 00:01:12.529 Demilade Agboola: Yes, straight to Minneapolis I flew from Malta to London Heathrow.
12 00:01:12.760 ⇒ 00:01:18.069 Demilade Agboola: and that’s where I feel to to Minneapolis directly.
13 00:01:18.978 ⇒ 00:01:20.809 Demilade Agboola: So I got in.
14 00:01:21.050 ⇒ 00:01:28.120 Demilade Agboola: and then, like water control, got stopped there, you know, asked a couple of questions, and then they had. They asked me to
15 00:01:28.250 ⇒ 00:01:33.430 Demilade Agboola: go to immigration. So I had a conversation immigration. There were a lot of questions like.
16 00:01:33.430 ⇒ 00:01:34.910 Uttam Kumaran: What kind of questions.
17 00:01:35.280 ⇒ 00:01:39.495 Demilade Agboola: That’s the typical stuff. So like, you know, like on a visit, you’re not supposed to work right.
18 00:01:39.730 ⇒ 00:01:40.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.
19 00:01:40.310 ⇒ 00:01:45.210 Demilade Agboola: Anywhere like. It doesn’t matter who who your employer is, so it’s effectively
20 00:01:45.855 ⇒ 00:01:49.070 Demilade Agboola: how are you in your like?
21 00:01:49.940 ⇒ 00:01:53.849 Demilade Agboola: How are you like 30, and you’re able to
22 00:01:54.530 ⇒ 00:01:58.219 Demilade Agboola: travel and not work for so many months in a year.
23 00:01:58.970 ⇒ 00:02:00.010 Demilade Agboola: Basically.
24 00:02:00.450 ⇒ 00:02:01.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25 00:02:01.660 ⇒ 00:02:12.799 Demilade Agboola: So it’s that kind of thing. And so I had to like, you know. Come up with like, oh, I’m like a contract like a cycle like a second call contract, sort of thing. So it’s like like one off periods and that kind of thing.
26 00:02:13.100 ⇒ 00:02:17.270 Demilade Agboola: And then they went through all my shit. They just literally went through all my shit.
27 00:02:17.410 ⇒ 00:02:18.740 Demilade Agboola: And then
28 00:02:20.320 ⇒ 00:02:25.180 Demilade Agboola: I’m trying to remember what else. It’s just a bunch of questions. Do I have a house in Malta? Do I have a house in Nigeria?
29 00:02:25.790 ⇒ 00:02:28.149 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, do have a house in Angeria, my dad.
30 00:02:28.150 ⇒ 00:02:30.150 Uttam Kumaran: You have a but you have a Nigerian passport.
31 00:02:30.320 ⇒ 00:02:31.480 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. Have a Nigerian passport.
32 00:02:31.480 ⇒ 00:02:31.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
33 00:02:31.960 ⇒ 00:02:37.450 Demilade Agboola: Kind of what flags a lot of people to to you, and then
34 00:02:37.840 ⇒ 00:02:44.099 Demilade Agboola: they have a house in Nigeria. I’m like, yes, my father. My father is late now, left the house to my siblings, and I
35 00:02:46.320 ⇒ 00:02:50.849 Demilade Agboola: How much do I earn? How much have available to use right now?
36 00:02:53.820 ⇒ 00:03:01.900 Demilade Agboola: What do I plan to do? And ultimately it’s frustrating, because, like, when I’m here, I do spend quite a bit of money, because, like I am here to see my girlfriend, and so
37 00:03:02.340 ⇒ 00:03:04.334 Demilade Agboola: we went to watch the Lakers game.
38 00:03:04.860 ⇒ 00:03:07.002 Uttam Kumaran: No way. Let’s go no way.
39 00:03:07.820 ⇒ 00:03:11.000 Uttam Kumaran: Wait! Wait! Which game the one the game on Saturday.
40 00:03:11.000 ⇒ 00:03:13.580 Demilade Agboola: No, no, literally you gave me yesterday.
41 00:03:13.580 ⇒ 00:03:14.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yesterday.
42 00:03:14.450 ⇒ 00:03:16.640 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. The the one you guys lost.
43 00:03:16.640 ⇒ 00:03:17.480 Uttam Kumaran: Tough game.
44 00:03:17.480 ⇒ 00:03:23.730 Demilade Agboola: Tough game. But like, yeah, I was there. I was in the crowd. I was watching the game with my girlfriend like. So it’s like. It’s a bit frustrating, because it’s like
45 00:03:24.050 ⇒ 00:03:31.259 Demilade Agboola: if I wanted to like cause I’ve been here quite often, and if I wanted anything shady or illegal, I would have done that like a long, long.
46 00:03:31.260 ⇒ 00:03:32.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
47 00:03:32.560 ⇒ 00:03:43.960 Demilade Agboola: It’s like, anyway. But it’s fine I get. They’re doing their job. But so it’s like, you know what I I have someone who I started talking to, who are pretty helps like build out your profile for an eb. One.
48 00:03:43.960 ⇒ 00:03:44.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
49 00:03:44.610 ⇒ 00:03:46.059 Demilade Agboola: These are petition.
50 00:03:46.490 ⇒ 00:03:51.929 Demilade Agboola: It will cost me like 20 K. But yeah, I think that
51 00:03:52.040 ⇒ 00:03:57.309 Demilade Agboola: at at this point I’m just like, you know what? Potentially, you know, just let’s just do it. And just like over with it.
52 00:03:57.560 ⇒ 00:03:58.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
53 00:03:58.230 ⇒ 00:03:58.950 Demilade Agboola: So
54 00:03:59.230 ⇒ 00:04:09.740 Demilade Agboola: that’s that’s the this thing. So potentially, I plan to start like by next month, he says, like he, he needs like 4 months to build out the profile and then make the submission, and then you get like.
55 00:04:09.740 ⇒ 00:04:11.849 Uttam Kumaran: Tell me what you need from us, like
56 00:04:12.200 ⇒ 00:04:14.860 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I think we’re it’s probably like.
57 00:04:15.120 ⇒ 00:04:22.840 Uttam Kumaran: gonna be tough for us to contribute cash wise. But even if you, even if you need any amount for that, let me know, or whatever we can contribute, as like
58 00:04:23.080 ⇒ 00:04:25.180 Uttam Kumaran: the business case, or whatever.
59 00:04:25.896 ⇒ 00:04:29.629 Demilade Agboola: That’s fine. I I definitely I think he
60 00:04:30.180 ⇒ 00:04:34.460 Demilade Agboola: so cause again this, a lot of the immigration processes are very archaic.
61 00:04:35.297 ⇒ 00:04:38.600 Demilade Agboola: So like they’ve they’ve heavily favored things like research.
62 00:04:39.770 ⇒ 00:04:41.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
63 00:04:41.010 ⇒ 00:04:45.120 Demilade Agboola: We’re very heavy on like research papers, journals, stuff like that.
64 00:04:45.290 ⇒ 00:04:49.120 Demilade Agboola: So he’s like awards all those kind of things. And he’s just like
65 00:04:49.220 ⇒ 00:04:55.380 Demilade Agboola: to be honest, I think the profile is pretty good, like I I just need to be able to like put things around so he’s like he would
66 00:04:56.919 ⇒ 00:04:58.150 Demilade Agboola: do
67 00:04:58.440 ⇒ 00:05:08.200 Demilade Agboola: some like research papers in my name. All that kind of stuff just kind of like just to buffer and have like some other criteria. But he’s like, yeah, my actual like, credentials are fine, like.
68 00:05:08.380 ⇒ 00:05:12.220 Demilade Agboola: it just needs to like, put those things that fit the criteria that they’re looking for.
69 00:05:12.220 ⇒ 00:05:17.859 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But that’s why, even if you want to do like a blog post from us, or a video or something.
70 00:05:17.860 ⇒ 00:05:18.700 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
71 00:05:18.700 ⇒ 00:05:23.870 Uttam Kumaran: To do it fair enough us, and then, like you can keep that and.
72 00:05:24.890 ⇒ 00:05:25.630 Demilade Agboola: So it’s just
73 00:05:25.630 ⇒ 00:05:31.400 Demilade Agboola: all that stuff. So like he, he’s thinking, I’m literally thinking of something like as soon as possible. So he’s like
74 00:05:32.179 ⇒ 00:05:35.130 Demilade Agboola: working on it potentially by
75 00:05:36.820 ⇒ 00:05:42.200 Demilade Agboola: August September. Make the application. Make the partition so it’s like a 2 week turnaround time.
76 00:05:42.320 ⇒ 00:05:52.739 Demilade Agboola: So by September, all things being called, I would have feedback on that, like one of my friends did it literally got it. And then, after that, what you now have to do is you have to file for an interview.
77 00:05:53.777 ⇒ 00:05:58.859 Demilade Agboola: Then you go to interview. They have a conversation with you about all of that, like
78 00:05:59.370 ⇒ 00:06:01.869 Demilade Agboola: about you as a person and all that stuff.
79 00:06:02.200 ⇒ 00:06:07.410 Demilade Agboola: and then it’s usually like really short, like a 3 to 5 min interview.
80 00:06:07.590 ⇒ 00:06:12.499 Demilade Agboola: and if that goes through, then you come back, pick up your passport with the eb one visa, and like.
81 00:06:12.500 ⇒ 00:06:12.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
82 00:06:12.930 ⇒ 00:06:13.750 Demilade Agboola: For about.
83 00:06:14.630 ⇒ 00:06:15.240 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
84 00:06:15.490 ⇒ 00:06:18.310 Demilade Agboola: Asking you so what are you here to do? And why do you keep coming here often?
85 00:06:18.490 ⇒ 00:06:19.329 Demilade Agboola: So yeah.
86 00:06:19.330 ⇒ 00:06:21.271 Uttam Kumaran: I’m going to lakers game.
87 00:06:22.400 ⇒ 00:06:30.629 Demilade Agboola: One of these. I literally said that like I said, part of the reasons why I’m here. I’m here for my I’m here for at least my girlfriend. I’m here for a graduation with my friend.
88 00:06:31.059 ⇒ 00:06:35.800 Demilade Agboola: But I’m also here earlier, because, like there’s a Lakers game, and I really wanted to watch the Lakers
89 00:06:35.970 ⇒ 00:06:38.450 Demilade Agboola: play, and that’s just kidding.
90 00:06:39.540 ⇒ 00:06:47.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t know in in the Us. Now, like this is where I don’t know, because some of some of the immigration stuff now is really focused on the border southern border.
91 00:06:48.210 ⇒ 00:06:54.380 Uttam Kumaran: Usually foreign foreign stuff. They’re not really like too crazy. They’re not really like too
92 00:06:54.510 ⇒ 00:07:00.210 Uttam Kumaran: best about. Usually, I mean. I think they have a quota where they’re supposed to randomly
93 00:07:01.070 ⇒ 00:07:07.359 Uttam Kumaran: pick some people and go all the way because it’s similar, like Tsa, that the metal detectors don’t do much
94 00:07:08.263 ⇒ 00:07:16.740 Uttam Kumaran: and so they end up not finding a lot of stuff they have to actually just randomly search like they have some quota, for, like randomly searching a bunch of them.
95 00:07:17.785 ⇒ 00:07:18.660 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
96 00:07:18.660 ⇒ 00:07:19.630 Demilade Agboola: I had no idea.
97 00:07:19.630 ⇒ 00:07:24.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, but then, you know what they’re they’re they probably have some machine learning models that’s like
98 00:07:25.360 ⇒ 00:07:29.060 Uttam Kumaran: being like indicating, oh, would like, be all these characteristics.
99 00:07:29.690 ⇒ 00:07:31.319 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I don’t know. It’s
100 00:07:31.550 ⇒ 00:07:34.649 Uttam Kumaran: the flawed system. I don’t know how they figure it out.
101 00:07:34.650 ⇒ 00:07:40.650 Demilade Agboola: It’s really, it’s really, really flawed. Like I, for instance, I know, like the Uk had the system. For like they called the technician.
102 00:07:41.190 ⇒ 00:07:44.099 Demilade Agboola: basically, if you could prove you’re an industry leader or
103 00:07:45.050 ⇒ 00:07:49.690 Demilade Agboola: a top talent in your country, they would give you a visa to the Us. And.
104 00:07:49.690 ⇒ 00:07:50.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
105 00:07:50.640 ⇒ 00:07:54.769 Demilade Agboola: And the advantage of that was, it was a 5 year visa.
106 00:07:55.110 ⇒ 00:07:58.810 Demilade Agboola: and after once you’re like, once you’re done, you can apply for like a passport.
107 00:08:00.870 ⇒ 00:08:07.380 Demilade Agboola: And a lot of people like tried that. And I I know one of the problems people had was like, you could be really skilled.
108 00:08:07.990 ⇒ 00:08:08.800 Demilade Agboola: But.
109 00:08:08.950 ⇒ 00:08:13.079 Uttam Kumaran: At the end of the day. It’s always it always comes down to like a popularity contest, like.
110 00:08:13.080 ⇒ 00:08:13.899 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, yeah, yeah.
111 00:08:13.900 ⇒ 00:08:15.829 Demilade Agboola: Plans. Have you done this? Have you done so.
112 00:08:15.830 ⇒ 00:08:22.350 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s what I’m that’s what I’m saying like. And that’s why, if you, if it helps for you to get talks or whatever like dude. We should just run you through
113 00:08:22.710 ⇒ 00:08:28.920 Uttam Kumaran: a couple of that way. You have some promotion, but you’re right in that. You may be highly skilled, but if you have no one to vouch for it.
114 00:08:29.430 ⇒ 00:08:37.740 Uttam Kumaran: Like companies, for example, will do that where they’ll be like Facebook will be like this person is needed, and then they’ll get Facebook’s to vouch for them, or whatever.
115 00:08:37.740 ⇒ 00:08:38.520 Demilade Agboola: You know.
116 00:08:38.690 ⇒ 00:08:39.309 Uttam Kumaran: You know.
117 00:08:40.280 ⇒ 00:08:42.130 Demilade Agboola: Oh, well, that’s fair, that’s fair.
118 00:08:42.390 ⇒ 00:08:43.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
119 00:08:43.140 ⇒ 00:08:50.830 Demilade Agboola: Well welcome here, so I’m here till the 20th should be fun should be.
120 00:08:50.830 ⇒ 00:08:59.590 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m gonna try to. I’m gonna try to book. I’m just waiting for this month to close out. But I’m gonna try to book a flight sometime midweek.
121 00:08:59.780 ⇒ 00:09:03.249 Uttam Kumaran: either next week or the week after
122 00:09:04.374 ⇒ 00:09:06.830 Uttam Kumaran: but probably just like come for a day.
123 00:09:08.190 ⇒ 00:09:11.030 Demilade Agboola: Sounds good. I’ll be available and.
124 00:09:11.030 ⇒ 00:09:11.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
125 00:09:11.810 ⇒ 00:09:16.490 Demilade Agboola: There just like once. I just have the heads up of what time you’re coming in should be fine.
126 00:09:17.350 ⇒ 00:09:18.300 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool.
127 00:09:20.330 ⇒ 00:09:25.110 Uttam Kumaran: cool. Yeah. I mean, thanks for going through this, Doc. I’ve been sort of doing this with a bunch of people.
128 00:09:26.220 ⇒ 00:09:30.380 Uttam Kumaran: Where we’re finally, I think, able to.
129 00:09:31.020 ⇒ 00:09:43.250 Uttam Kumaran: even for me, take a step back and start to see how I can boost everybody. But, more importantly, like, I want to get a pulse check on everybody on some recurring cadence, on how everything’s going.
130 00:09:43.724 ⇒ 00:09:50.819 Uttam Kumaran: I want to talk a little bit about going through the the check in the perspective and the feedback loop.
131 00:09:51.318 ⇒ 00:09:55.200 Uttam Kumaran: And then I want to sort of share a little bit about how I’m thinking about goals.
132 00:09:57.010 ⇒ 00:10:00.330 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I have the document up so we can feel free to.
133 00:10:02.330 ⇒ 00:10:05.440 Uttam Kumaran: I left some comments, but feel free. We can just start wherever.
134 00:10:06.150 ⇒ 00:10:07.280 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
135 00:10:12.680 ⇒ 00:10:13.410 Demilade Agboola: see?
136 00:10:31.000 ⇒ 00:10:32.500 Demilade Agboola: do we start?
137 00:10:35.940 ⇒ 00:10:40.729 Uttam Kumaran: I sort of got what you were saying on the quick check in like what didn’t go. Well,
138 00:10:43.180 ⇒ 00:10:51.290 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, let me let me give you maybe my perspective on that. So for urban stems, it’s sort of a handshake agreement that we can’t really like
139 00:10:52.560 ⇒ 00:10:55.109 Uttam Kumaran: change much before Mother’s day.
140 00:10:55.450 ⇒ 00:10:55.770 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
141 00:10:56.810 ⇒ 00:10:57.910 Uttam Kumaran: So that I’m
142 00:10:58.550 ⇒ 00:11:02.670 Uttam Kumaran: we’re still finding ways to do a lot. But I think they’re trusting us a lot more
143 00:11:03.950 ⇒ 00:11:05.649 Uttam Kumaran: in terms of Eden.
144 00:11:06.030 ⇒ 00:11:07.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s
145 00:11:08.150 ⇒ 00:11:15.390 Uttam Kumaran: it’s again really tough. I think part of this is where, you know, hopefully, this kind of goes into goals is Robert and I are
146 00:11:15.740 ⇒ 00:11:18.030 Uttam Kumaran: basically the only like
147 00:11:18.570 ⇒ 00:11:31.799 Uttam Kumaran: appointed, like basically like project architects right now, where we’re determining, like the roadmap of the project and the why the project managers like Akash or Amber are the ones actually like.
148 00:11:32.010 ⇒ 00:11:37.299 Uttam Kumaran: basically assigning work, keeping track of allocations. And then we have the folks that are on engineering.
149 00:11:38.570 ⇒ 00:11:41.680 Uttam Kumaran: So this is where it’s like, we’re only in this.
150 00:11:41.970 ⇒ 00:11:45.780 Uttam Kumaran: We’re only I think at we’re basically as limited as like
151 00:11:46.100 ⇒ 00:11:53.479 Uttam Kumaran: our time is. And this is probably the next role that we basically need to solve, for which is just like
152 00:11:54.550 ⇒ 00:11:56.480 Uttam Kumaran: project architect.
153 00:11:57.291 ⇒ 00:12:06.079 Uttam Kumaran: like execution architect like, I don’t know what the name for this is but typically, it’s like, this is where the project manager function
154 00:12:06.500 ⇒ 00:12:16.960 Uttam Kumaran: I want. I want to separate a little bit out. This is like when it happens. And who does it versus like what happens? Right? What needs to happen? That’s a huge.
155 00:12:17.070 ⇒ 00:12:24.200 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve done a good job at like, I mean, if you think about where we were before. It was me or Robert doing all 3,
156 00:12:24.480 ⇒ 00:12:28.190 Uttam Kumaran: and then we took off engineering, and then we took off.
157 00:12:29.500 ⇒ 00:12:31.619 Uttam Kumaran: Then we took off Pm’s
158 00:12:32.040 ⇒ 00:12:37.450 Uttam Kumaran: right meaning like we. We now have a team that can enable that the next piece that we’re still
159 00:12:37.620 ⇒ 00:12:46.310 Uttam Kumaran: not able to move off of is like the sort of projects project architecture, you know, execution, roadmap, basically.
160 00:12:46.820 ⇒ 00:12:52.360 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I I think in just in that regard, I think it’s more of like on the projects it feels very much
161 00:12:52.750 ⇒ 00:12:57.780 Demilade Agboola: like we haven’t necessarily got into a stage. Where.
162 00:12:58.990 ⇒ 00:13:00.569 Demilade Agboola: if how do I put it?
163 00:13:00.700 ⇒ 00:13:06.959 Demilade Agboola: It feels like we’re not necessarily enacting what we.
164 00:13:07.630 ⇒ 00:13:12.020 Demilade Agboola: what our vision is for the client. It rather feels more like we’re
165 00:13:14.820 ⇒ 00:13:24.730 Demilade Agboola: solving the clients issues like, I don’t have to explain beyond that. But like it’s more like, Hey, this is what the clients are saying we should do, and we’re kind of handling that. And I feel like one of the
166 00:13:25.800 ⇒ 00:13:29.770 Demilade Agboola: best part of like consulting. Generally speaking, is the ability to be able to
167 00:13:29.990 ⇒ 00:13:38.470 Demilade Agboola: actually, not just problem solved, but actually built in such a way that they can actually see utility. Yeah.
168 00:13:38.620 ⇒ 00:13:43.199 Demilade Agboola: I feel like, sometimes it’s great when they see him.
169 00:13:43.870 ⇒ 00:13:56.420 Demilade Agboola: We have an issue with this dashboard, or with this like with these numbers. And can you help us figure that out. And we do that I feel sometimes it’s easier or like it’s the the true value shows a lot more when
170 00:13:56.670 ⇒ 00:14:00.199 Demilade Agboola: they can see an entire like
171 00:14:00.350 ⇒ 00:14:07.240 Demilade Agboola: roadmap, and they can see how that, how like that vision, has come together nicely while still solving those problems.
172 00:14:07.440 ⇒ 00:14:07.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
173 00:14:07.970 ⇒ 00:14:15.230 Demilade Agboola: For instance, we were having issues with our data.
174 00:14:15.836 ⇒ 00:14:24.393 Demilade Agboola: But now, all of a sudden, not only have you changed our entire infrastructure. We’ve set up like data quality tests. We’ve set up
175 00:14:24.900 ⇒ 00:14:33.280 Demilade Agboola: documentation. So now, things that we had issues, even figuring out. Now, we have a clear, sustainable way on how to maintain that and build that
176 00:14:33.811 ⇒ 00:14:36.220 Demilade Agboola: so like data, governance data quality.
177 00:14:36.766 ⇒ 00:14:45.079 Demilade Agboola: just being able to show them like best practices and things like that so that they like it’s a more of like a shift in how they like
178 00:14:45.230 ⇒ 00:14:46.490 Demilade Agboola: view data.
179 00:14:46.630 ⇒ 00:14:49.190 Demilade Agboola: I think that’s I think that’s kind of what I’m talking about, like
180 00:14:49.320 ⇒ 00:14:55.139 Demilade Agboola: where? Where? I don’t feel like when we like when on the products I’m on like I can speak for the ones I’m on.
181 00:14:55.140 ⇒ 00:14:55.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
182 00:14:55.610 ⇒ 00:14:59.399 Demilade Agboola: I don’t feel like, if we stop the product today, there’s actually a shift
183 00:14:59.530 ⇒ 00:15:03.740 Demilade Agboola: in how they would handle or view data. And I think that’s important, because
184 00:15:04.457 ⇒ 00:15:11.239 Demilade Agboola: you kind of want to be able to. That creates a stronger impact like when they feel like, hey.
185 00:15:12.250 ⇒ 00:15:20.570 Demilade Agboola: even like in little ways. I try and tell Emily that, too, sometimes, and like even with the model that’s part of why we have a new model structure. Now, Emily, is why that’s important.
186 00:15:20.570 ⇒ 00:15:21.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
187 00:15:21.030 ⇒ 00:15:35.510 Demilade Agboola: So now, if we go off the project, or if anything happens, she knows how the like, how a proper model structure is created. She knows why things are put in different layers. She knows how to name things in the appropriate way.
188 00:15:35.700 ⇒ 00:15:36.600 Demilade Agboola: and
189 00:15:37.229 ⇒ 00:15:46.769 Demilade Agboola: being able to do that creates more of a model shift than if you was just like, Hey, go in there and solve the problems and we solve it. It is fine, but
190 00:15:47.270 ⇒ 00:15:53.350 Demilade Agboola: ultimate. Ultimately, it’s just we solve the problem. And I think sometimes being able to
191 00:15:53.630 ⇒ 00:15:59.660 Demilade Agboola: show that like level of expertise that translates into that is kind of what what I’m speaking about.
192 00:16:00.240 ⇒ 00:16:01.810 Uttam Kumaran: And what do you think that
193 00:16:01.980 ⇒ 00:16:05.459 Uttam Kumaran: it was our like primary blocker between where we’re now
194 00:16:05.660 ⇒ 00:16:08.400 Uttam Kumaran: add, and actually delivering what you described.
195 00:16:09.190 ⇒ 00:16:14.999 Demilade Agboola: Depends on the client, I think, for urban stems. I think the primary booklet would probably be just the time
196 00:16:15.610 ⇒ 00:16:26.140 Demilade Agboola: we’re not like in the space where we can like, settle in and be like, okay, this is a very clear roadmap. This is what we need to do. This is how we’re going to do it. And this is why we’re doing these things.
197 00:16:26.300 ⇒ 00:16:30.570 Demilade Agboola: And this is kind of documentation that we can put out to like. Let you know
198 00:16:30.750 ⇒ 00:16:41.169 Demilade Agboola: one while we’re doing these things best practices, and how to ensure that you maintain those best practices we could even have like I don’t say classes, but like tutorials where it’s like once a week.
199 00:16:41.812 ⇒ 00:16:45.930 Demilade Agboola: You hop in. We talk you through everything we’ve done. Ask any questions you want to ask.
200 00:16:46.490 ⇒ 00:16:54.979 Demilade Agboola: We tell you what the plan like. You know that kind of education session where, like they feel like, oh, actually advertising a better place. They feel more confident in what we’ve done.
201 00:16:55.220 ⇒ 00:17:02.130 Demilade Agboola: because we’re able to speak on it and like walk them through the thought processes behind this. And they can buy into that.
202 00:17:02.880 ⇒ 00:17:05.699 Demilade Agboola: So that’s for, like urban stems for Eden, I feel
203 00:17:06.160 ⇒ 00:17:11.100 Demilade Agboola: that’s a slightly trickier client in the sense that like yes, we do pretend actually have the time.
204 00:17:11.650 ⇒ 00:17:15.540 Demilade Agboola: but I feel like there’s like a trust
205 00:17:15.950 ⇒ 00:17:17.569 Demilade Agboola: dynamic that we’re still trying to know.
206 00:17:17.579 ⇒ 00:17:18.409 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
207 00:17:18.810 ⇒ 00:17:22.982 Demilade Agboola: And that makes it a bit harder to now be like, hey?
208 00:17:24.430 ⇒ 00:17:27.759 Demilade Agboola: It’s still doable. I’m not saying it’s not doable, but it makes it harder to just be like
209 00:17:28.180 ⇒ 00:17:32.780 Demilade Agboola: hey! These these are like doc documents on how to handle this and how to do that.
210 00:17:33.153 ⇒ 00:17:44.830 Demilade Agboola: But I feel like long term. That’s the goal that should definitely be the goal we need to like. Make our imprints very clear here. These are the brain for docs on how to do this. These are the brain for docs on why you should do it this way.
211 00:17:44.960 ⇒ 00:17:51.330 Demilade Agboola: And so the brain for docs on like model data, quality and observability metrics. This and the like.
212 00:17:51.730 ⇒ 00:17:52.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
213 00:17:52.170 ⇒ 00:17:57.909 Demilade Agboola: Where they feel like, oh, okay, brain force has truly made an impact in our.
214 00:17:57.910 ⇒ 00:18:03.079 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. And do you feel like the limitation is because
215 00:18:03.450 ⇒ 00:18:13.209 Uttam Kumaran: we have like people that are executing. And we have people that are like moving tickets around like project management. And then there’s like, not a
216 00:18:14.100 ⇒ 00:18:21.869 Uttam Kumaran: like an adoption piece like I’m trying to think of. Like if I was to narrow down. Commonly issues are either the people
217 00:18:22.220 ⇒ 00:18:25.230 Uttam Kumaran: or it’s like a process problem. Right?
218 00:18:25.390 ⇒ 00:18:31.060 Uttam Kumaran: So I guess I’m trying to. And we don’t have to get to an answer. But I’m kind of trying to think about
219 00:18:31.530 ⇒ 00:18:35.129 Uttam Kumaran: like what is like some short term thing we can do
220 00:18:35.290 ⇒ 00:18:37.020 Uttam Kumaran: to get there. Is it like
221 00:18:37.900 ⇒ 00:18:41.779 Uttam Kumaran: a specific meeting or space where we sort of talk about
222 00:18:41.890 ⇒ 00:18:45.239 Uttam Kumaran: things at that level that aren’t just like moving tickets forward.
223 00:18:45.440 ⇒ 00:18:52.020 Uttam Kumaran: Like, is it? I don’t know. Yeah, I I totally hear you, though.
224 00:18:52.020 ⇒ 00:18:57.260 Demilade Agboola: But yeah, I think I think it’s a combination. I think us, for instance, having meetings where we can say, Hey.
225 00:19:00.880 ⇒ 00:19:09.590 Demilade Agboola: And I think. Also, we’re close. I think it’s just about like putting some things. For instance, all these like diagrams of like current states. That’s helpful. That’s great.
226 00:19:09.800 ⇒ 00:19:10.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
227 00:19:10.310 ⇒ 00:19:21.310 Demilade Agboola: Translate that into the stakeholder. So, for instance, being able to hop with Josh into a call, or like, I don’t know who are cutter and just being like, Hey, this is how things were before.
228 00:19:21.310 ⇒ 00:19:22.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
229 00:19:22.280 ⇒ 00:19:33.349 Demilade Agboola: That’s how things are now. And what are the differences in terms of like? What flexibility does it give you right like? Why did? Why did we put dbt. Instead of.
230 00:19:33.350 ⇒ 00:19:33.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
231 00:19:34.380 ⇒ 00:19:35.360 Demilade Agboola: Naturalized view.
232 00:19:35.973 ⇒ 00:19:43.410 Demilade Agboola: In our like having this schedule query in our bigquery. What are the advantages? Are we.
233 00:19:43.410 ⇒ 00:19:43.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
234 00:19:43.890 ⇒ 00:19:46.660 Demilade Agboola: License advantages. What are the long term plans for this?
235 00:19:47.950 ⇒ 00:19:49.500 Demilade Agboola: What is?
236 00:19:49.800 ⇒ 00:19:52.854 Demilade Agboola: How does that also like affect in terms of like
237 00:19:53.850 ⇒ 00:20:06.618 Demilade Agboola: scalability. How do? How are you able to scale this like the way orders details were set up before versus how we set up now, how can we scale it. How does people who come in to be able to understand what’s going on in the system?
238 00:20:07.110 ⇒ 00:20:19.693 Demilade Agboola: because the way it was before Rob was the only person who had an idea what’s going on. And it was very hard to scale. How does this allow you to eventually hire a data team that can be. Maintain this
239 00:20:21.330 ⇒ 00:20:27.249 Demilade Agboola: just being able to like, walk through those processes and just being able to like, clarify, which is like, I guess maybe.
240 00:20:27.250 ⇒ 00:20:42.209 Uttam Kumaran: It seems like part of it is like more documentation. Part part of it is like, so this is kind of you know. I think this is spot on with like, how, how I’m thinking about this lot of the data platform work is I want them to like, be like, ultimately, I want them to to have
241 00:20:42.380 ⇒ 00:20:50.790 Uttam Kumaran: the documentation. I want them to have the diagrams want them to have the explanations of why we made the decisions we made.
242 00:20:51.030 ⇒ 00:20:52.769 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’re right in that.
243 00:20:53.420 ⇒ 00:20:56.229 Uttam Kumaran: There, there’s some stuff that like
244 00:20:56.520 ⇒ 00:21:01.610 Uttam Kumaran: and on a given these are. But these are things that are like more on a week to week or a month to month.
245 00:21:01.720 ⇒ 00:21:09.930 Uttam Kumaran: sort of like tickets that we have to take on, which is just around explanatory things like
246 00:21:10.960 ⇒ 00:21:20.430 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I I sort of hear you, though, which is like for me. This is why our data platform work is important, because I want us to walk into a client and know that every client.
247 00:21:20.560 ⇒ 00:21:47.590 Uttam Kumaran: no matter what we leave with a great like full project. Explanation, Doc. We leave with the diagrams we leave with a couple of other artifacts that like are constantly evolving right. The diagrams are the 1st sort of push there which I’m like. I want to leave you with the highest quality architecture diagrams, not just in the way they look, but in the fact they include everything they have the details. We’re gonna try to do something around cost.
248 00:21:47.760 ⇒ 00:22:12.250 Uttam Kumaran: And then the data, really what I see as like the asset that I want to develop, and I’ll probably end up talking to you and Kai about is that data platform documentation spreadsheet like that is a product that we develop which we have all of our sources listed. We have all of our core infrastructure. Peaches listed for the for the core, infrastructure vendors. We have the contracts, the cost. When’s the renewal coming up? Those are things that, like
249 00:22:12.660 ⇒ 00:22:24.690 Uttam Kumaran: those are things that nobody really has. And even if full time data teams don’t do that, then we can get to like documentation on the core metrics, and like that’s something that we we do on every client, no matter what.
250 00:22:25.271 ⇒ 00:22:27.380 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’re right in that
251 00:22:27.770 ⇒ 00:22:34.799 Uttam Kumaran: for me, I think who is responsible for showing that. And like, how do we actually share that? That’s important.
252 00:22:35.543 ⇒ 00:22:39.200 Uttam Kumaran: Whether because we can’t do that, it’s not really easy to do it stand ups.
253 00:22:39.640 ⇒ 00:22:48.679 Uttam Kumaran: I think we should think of like, is it a? Is it like a weekly or bi-weekly business review meeting? Is it a monthly data in for a meeting.
254 00:22:49.560 ⇒ 00:22:57.889 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I I think so. I I think it will be best if it was like a bi-weekly or potentially monthly meeting in the sense that, like
255 00:22:58.000 ⇒ 00:22:59.729 Demilade Agboola: it will be best to be able to.
256 00:22:59.730 ⇒ 00:23:01.170 Uttam Kumaran: A platform meeting.
257 00:23:01.170 ⇒ 00:23:06.510 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think it’ll be best to be able to have that conversation. But I also don’t want it to be.
258 00:23:06.890 ⇒ 00:23:17.529 Demilade Agboola: I also depends. It also depends on the audience we’re looking at. Right? I think if it’s the data team, that’s the audience, it could be more technical like, it’s more like we’re talking.
259 00:23:19.460 ⇒ 00:23:24.069 Demilade Agboola: Why, for instance, like now, right now, what I’m working on is the incremental model for the
260 00:23:25.073 ⇒ 00:23:26.719 Demilade Agboola: Admin stems.
261 00:23:27.150 ⇒ 00:23:29.850 Demilade Agboola: And so potentially being able to go from.
262 00:23:29.850 ⇒ 00:23:30.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
263 00:23:30.640 ⇒ 00:23:31.280 Demilade Agboola: This is.
264 00:23:31.280 ⇒ 00:23:38.870 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s for us, is showing off our work right? Cause that may just go underneath that may just get brushed out of the rug, when, in fact.
265 00:23:39.190 ⇒ 00:23:43.090 Uttam Kumaran: if there’s so many great downstream impacts.
266 00:23:43.520 ⇒ 00:23:53.989 Uttam Kumaran: you’re totally right in that. That work is is completely lost right now where where we’re doing it, and it’s helping. But we’re not getting. We’re not getting credit for it.
267 00:23:54.240 ⇒ 00:23:56.600 Demilade Agboola: Like where we where we should.
268 00:23:57.000 ⇒ 00:24:10.940 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. And so like being able to like. For instance, now, when we’re done, urban stems potentially, we can look at like the business impact of mother’s day. Like if even like what Emily was saying today about being able to figure out like the buffers that are over buffered like the
269 00:24:11.070 ⇒ 00:24:23.609 Demilade Agboola: like ideally. What that would. What that would have resulted in is lots, lot ids that would just expire without being sold, because no one will think they’re available for sale. And like just being able to have that visibility
270 00:24:24.490 ⇒ 00:24:28.147 Demilade Agboola: is is something like it’s actually something
271 00:24:29.220 ⇒ 00:24:33.879 Demilade Agboola: and you know, being able to now say, Oh, potentially, we could even add a new metric
272 00:24:34.180 ⇒ 00:24:38.459 Demilade Agboola: where, like, you know, the buffer counts should not be more than whatever.
273 00:24:38.460 ⇒ 00:24:38.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
274 00:24:38.980 ⇒ 00:24:49.580 Demilade Agboola: Ratio should not be more than maybe 20% or something. And if it’s more than 20%, we have a Dbt warning that just pops in an alert that pops in when model runs and lets us know hey!
275 00:24:50.120 ⇒ 00:24:53.460 Demilade Agboola: Their their buffers, like their Delta ids with
276 00:24:54.440 ⇒ 00:24:57.990 Demilade Agboola: we count above like with the ratio above 20%
277 00:24:58.150 ⇒ 00:25:02.379 Demilade Agboola: things like that like being able to show them like, Hey, not only do we
278 00:25:03.010 ⇒ 00:25:12.249 Demilade Agboola: not only are we just solving like you asked us to do buffer models, which is one thing, and we’ve done that right. But here is how it’s also impacting your business
279 00:25:12.690 ⇒ 00:25:20.859 Demilade Agboola: right? Or here’s the technical way in which we did it. If we’re talking to the technical team like the data team, hey? Technical in which we did it, that, like.
280 00:25:20.860 ⇒ 00:25:21.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
281 00:25:21.540 ⇒ 00:25:28.289 Demilade Agboola: We can flaunt the new model structure, we can flaunt the new incrementality. We can flaunt the time we’ve saved and then.
282 00:25:28.290 ⇒ 00:25:28.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
283 00:25:28.770 ⇒ 00:25:45.329 Demilade Agboola: But from the business. If we’re talking to the business team or like the business stakeholders, it can be more about the cost savings like using polytomic. Yes, it might be an additional cost in the sense of this, but this is how much you’ve saved by figuring this these things out which you would not have done if you had stitch.
284 00:25:46.280 ⇒ 00:25:49.299 Uttam Kumaran: We should almost have like a meeting where we cover.
285 00:25:49.940 ⇒ 00:25:54.520 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, whether it’s data platform or sort of like, it’s almost like a
286 00:25:56.560 ⇒ 00:26:00.519 Uttam Kumaran: How we looked around the corner for you this month. Sort of meeting.
287 00:26:00.970 ⇒ 00:26:01.740 Demilade Agboola: Exactly.
288 00:26:01.740 ⇒ 00:26:03.920 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, I’m gonna write that down.
289 00:26:03.920 ⇒ 00:26:08.219 Demilade Agboola: And also how, how, how you can continue doing like, how you can build on this going forward
290 00:26:08.340 ⇒ 00:26:13.419 Demilade Agboola: so like, which is probably like the culture. So like, because the problem is not always that, like
291 00:26:13.650 ⇒ 00:26:26.759 Demilade Agboola: the problem, sometimes just the culture like. So so going forward, how do we build on this right? So we built incremental models on these models. We’ve saved this much time. So what are the other models that we should be looking at, optimizing and saving more time on, for instance, or
292 00:26:27.661 ⇒ 00:26:31.879 Demilade Agboola: the buffer models we’ve been able to catch the the height, the over buffered.
293 00:26:32.297 ⇒ 00:26:43.380 Demilade Agboola: How do we build on that and ensure that like this catch is automated. Which is why I said the whole thing about the Dbt model and adding tests, so that when Dbt runs and.
294 00:26:43.380 ⇒ 00:26:43.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
295 00:26:43.930 ⇒ 00:26:55.749 Demilade Agboola: We flags it right now, like we’re we’re letting them know. So now that they see. Oh, it’s been. It’s great that, like we’ve caught this errors over buffered lots
296 00:26:56.590 ⇒ 00:27:02.030 Demilade Agboola: now we we not only can we catch them, but we can have it automated such that like, we never have to like worry about it.
297 00:27:02.030 ⇒ 00:27:02.780 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
298 00:27:02.780 ⇒ 00:27:04.890 Demilade Agboola: Offered again without us knowing
299 00:27:05.010 ⇒ 00:27:11.469 Demilade Agboola: sounds. Great. Sign us up like it’s 1 of things that they start to go. Okay. These are the experts that.
300 00:27:11.470 ⇒ 00:27:15.880 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes, and I always do. I don’t want people to view us as like.
301 00:27:16.350 ⇒ 00:27:22.529 Uttam Kumaran: just like for higher engineers like Staff. We’re not. We are not in the staff augmentation business.
302 00:27:22.530 ⇒ 00:27:22.860 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
303 00:27:22.860 ⇒ 00:27:24.420 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we are a holistic
304 00:27:24.590 ⇒ 00:27:51.290 Uttam Kumaran: like engineering company, right? And so I don’t. I don’t want to take I no longer. We had to do what we had to do when we started the company. But I no longer want to take stuff where we’re not. We don’t have a seat at the table otherwise. And we’re gonna get fired for something we can’t control to prop, most likely. And so a lot of our clients. We’ve moved towards that direction where we’re not taking clients, where we’re not interacting directly with the core decision makers. And we don’t have like a basically a place to impact.
305 00:27:51.380 ⇒ 00:27:55.429 Uttam Kumaran: But you’re right in that. This is part of the data platform work which is like.
306 00:27:56.340 ⇒ 00:28:22.359 Uttam Kumaran: How do? How does every one of our engineers get enabled by the platform. And how do our project managers get enabled right like, for example, if we went and took this feedback to amber, I think she would totally be down to go run and and orchestrate at this meeting. You know, between that and then. But then it’s sort of even for them to understand that. Hey, there’s all this work that we’re doing, that we’re not shining a light on. And then let’s as part of all of our client engagements. We need to have a bi-weekly
307 00:28:22.450 ⇒ 00:28:30.719 Uttam Kumaran: like, look around the corner or data ecosystem meeting, where, depending on who the audience is, we just share like 5 ways that we
308 00:28:30.910 ⇒ 00:28:55.420 Uttam Kumaran: we 5 ways that you may not have realized we’ve set you up for success. And that’s it, and just opens up a different like, almost like it’s like more of like with a short term meetings. And then it’s like one long term meeting per week per month, and that’s just it. That’s not part of all client engagements. Right? Because what do we do for all client engagements? We try to do a grooming. We try to do planning. We do some level of stand up. We do retro, because that’s what I require. I told. I just said the Pm. Is like, I
309 00:28:55.520 ⇒ 00:29:01.530 Uttam Kumaran: default. You need to have those because we need some way, some meetings, that room tickets, some meeting to plan.
310 00:29:01.700 ⇒ 00:29:09.840 Uttam Kumaran: We need some level of Async or Non Async stand ups. And then we need a reflection period. We can add one more. That’s a focus just on
311 00:29:10.270 ⇒ 00:29:12.779 Uttam Kumaran: long term execution. That’s it, you know.
312 00:29:12.780 ⇒ 00:29:18.129 Demilade Agboola: I think one of the problems, because, like again, the interactions, especially with urban stems and.
313 00:29:18.670 ⇒ 00:29:26.849 Uttam Kumaran: Even stems is like a tough one. I I just like it’s such that’s such a unique, weird one that, like they have this like
314 00:29:27.480 ⇒ 00:29:29.849 Uttam Kumaran: super bowl, and we’re like.
315 00:29:29.980 ⇒ 00:29:35.779 Uttam Kumaran: don’t touch any they’re like, don’t touch anything, but also like make it work. But like don’t touch anything, and it’s like
316 00:29:35.910 ⇒ 00:29:38.090 Uttam Kumaran: alright dude, you know.
317 00:29:38.270 ⇒ 00:29:39.270 Uttam Kumaran: No.
318 00:29:39.270 ⇒ 00:29:50.730 Demilade Agboola: I think I think what reason why I see that is because I’m i. 1 of the things I just quickly picked up. And notice is that, like the interaction we have with our clients, tends to be in the stand up for months, which.
319 00:29:50.730 ⇒ 00:29:51.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
320 00:29:51.190 ⇒ 00:29:52.969 Demilade Agboola: Always the best way, to sure.
321 00:29:52.970 ⇒ 00:29:54.570 Uttam Kumaran: Correct. You’re exactly correct.
322 00:29:54.570 ⇒ 00:29:55.649 Demilade Agboola: Right like I don’t.
323 00:29:55.650 ⇒ 00:30:01.780 Uttam Kumaran: Medium is not conducive for long term conversation, but this is also where that stand up is not run by us.
324 00:30:02.390 ⇒ 00:30:03.200 Demilade Agboola: Right.
325 00:30:03.200 ⇒ 00:30:06.049 Demilade Agboola: So urban stems in our robust, I mean we we run Eden.
326 00:30:06.050 ⇒ 00:30:09.130 Uttam Kumaran: Eden is run by us, but we’re playing defense.
327 00:30:09.380 ⇒ 00:30:09.980 Demilade Agboola: Exactly.
328 00:30:09.980 ⇒ 00:30:10.679 Uttam Kumaran: A bit.
329 00:30:10.680 ⇒ 00:30:19.480 Demilade Agboola: Exactly so Josh is like, oh, what are we doing about this? What’s going on with this? What’s the next thing that’s coming out like. It’s not a space in which, like expertise, necessarily shines through.
330 00:30:19.480 ⇒ 00:30:20.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
331 00:30:20.570 ⇒ 00:30:25.150 Demilade Agboola: You’re constantly just trying to like. Oh, we’ve handled this task. This is task that we’re.
332 00:30:25.150 ⇒ 00:30:27.599 Uttam Kumaran: So you’re yeah. You’re purely like a help desk. Right?
333 00:30:27.900 ⇒ 00:30:51.790 Uttam Kumaran: You’re not. You’re not a partner. And so you’re totally right. Urban stems will change. As soon as that date flips we will start to run. We’ll start to most. We’ll start to look, to run those ourselves, and then also run some sort of longer term thing in terms of like a longer term meeting, like we can’t. I can’t go. I’m not like, because I can’t go to those meetings and just be like I did my work like dude. We’re like.
334 00:30:51.900 ⇒ 00:30:53.900 Uttam Kumaran: we’re at a different level than that. Like, I’m not like.
335 00:30:54.040 ⇒ 00:30:57.980 Demilade Agboola: That’s literally what I was saying. That’s like the vibe about like a lot of these calls is we.
336 00:30:57.980 ⇒ 00:30:59.296 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I’m like.
337 00:30:59.560 ⇒ 00:31:00.070 Demilade Agboola: I’ve done my.
338 00:31:00.070 ⇒ 00:31:04.390 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Did you get this ticket done? I’m like, Dude. What are we like? I was in kindergarten like.
339 00:31:05.020 ⇒ 00:31:14.440 Uttam Kumaran: like I need. We need. I got to talk about like some larger things, and like, get the work done. And this is also part of what I wanted to talk to you about, even about your goals, is like
340 00:31:14.660 ⇒ 00:31:37.510 Uttam Kumaran: this is also partly just gonna be like a junior versus senior thing, where folks like us, who can see the entire landscape we need to be. We need to have our time leveraged towards that. And then we need to have other people fill where it’s just like getting stuff done right, and naturally those people will get stuff done of enough time. They’ll start to think a little bit bigger, and then we’ll help them grow up.
341 00:31:37.570 ⇒ 00:31:50.070 Uttam Kumaran: and I’m having the same conversation with a wish having. I want to have this conversation with you, which is like how we can, how I how we can think about where you want to go and basically give you more leverage because
342 00:31:50.240 ⇒ 00:31:52.200 Uttam Kumaran: your time is wasted.
343 00:31:52.340 ⇒ 00:31:54.790 Uttam Kumaran: Your time is not, I wouldn’t say wasted.
344 00:31:55.310 ⇒ 00:32:01.590 Uttam Kumaran: The rest of your brain is not being leveraged when you’re just like fixing one off dbt, same with me.
345 00:32:01.730 ⇒ 00:32:04.730 Uttam Kumaran: But we do what we do. What we can do in the short term.
346 00:32:05.060 ⇒ 00:32:08.600 Uttam Kumaran: But what I but what I want to find a way to do is
347 00:32:08.700 ⇒ 00:32:16.919 Uttam Kumaran: get you towards where 1 h of your time impacts like 5 x versus like one to 1, 1 to 1, 1 to one
348 00:32:17.050 ⇒ 00:32:29.459 Uttam Kumaran: right? And so that’s part of like the goal setting exercises. I’m asking people where they want to go, and for the company I think a lot about how to use your time. Get leverage right? And then how can I? And how can hopefully that
349 00:32:29.690 ⇒ 00:32:49.029 Uttam Kumaran: wherever you want to go, how can we align that with real responsibility that’s just left in the open here? And leverage comes in different ways. Right? Leverage comes in. People. Leverage comes in like making broader decisions. Leverage leverage comes in like owning broader priorities. Where your decision then impacts like 10 downstream decisions.
350 00:32:49.280 ⇒ 00:33:00.650 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So that’s up to you, I think to to think a little bit about is like, where do you want now that you’ve worked and you’ve worked in, you know, court of agency work before, like, where do you? Where do you want to see your leverage
351 00:33:00.910 ⇒ 00:33:07.139 Uttam Kumaran: that you don’t have today beyond, like the engineering tickets, because that’s whatever like.
352 00:33:07.560 ⇒ 00:33:08.260 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
353 00:33:09.568 ⇒ 00:33:14.300 Demilade Agboola: I think for me, a lot of the leverage I would like to see would be in.
354 00:33:16.420 ⇒ 00:33:20.840 Demilade Agboola: I won’t necessarily say I think I’ll say projects management, because that’s a different thing.
355 00:33:20.980 ⇒ 00:33:27.770 Demilade Agboola: But I think, like project architecture, like being able to say, Hey, I think
356 00:33:28.740 ⇒ 00:33:45.269 Demilade Agboola: this is necessary. This is like direction in which I feel we might be best served in like being able to like, say, Hey! Like, which is kind of what I was talking about like this like, how do we ensure that the products we’re doing? We hit the targets we need to hit. But we also show expertise. We also show like.
357 00:33:45.450 ⇒ 00:33:46.680 Demilade Agboola: oh, no!
358 00:33:46.940 ⇒ 00:33:50.380 Demilade Agboola: This is what the consultants have. Let us know how.
359 00:33:50.380 ⇒ 00:33:51.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
360 00:33:51.000 ⇒ 00:33:56.710 Demilade Agboola: We need to leave whatever engagements we have with a very clear understanding like this was not just a thing of like.
361 00:33:56.960 ⇒ 00:33:59.099 Demilade Agboola: Here are a bunch of tickets. Finish this.
362 00:33:59.100 ⇒ 00:33:59.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
363 00:33:59.680 ⇒ 00:34:06.889 Demilade Agboola: So but they they leave knowing like, hey, we actually had, like a proper consultant.
364 00:34:07.340 ⇒ 00:34:08.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.
365 00:34:08.230 ⇒ 00:34:09.159 Demilade Agboola: With people.
366 00:34:09.520 ⇒ 00:34:14.170 Uttam Kumaran: How did you? How did you? How? How did you guys deal with this before? Like, how did you deal with this at data culture?
367 00:34:15.024 ⇒ 00:34:17.215 Demilade Agboola: We used to. We used to have like
368 00:34:18.070 ⇒ 00:34:27.119 Demilade Agboola: engagement sessions like we used to have like sessions. It wasn’t often it wasn’t necessarily scheduled, but we would have like so if we had a Doc
369 00:34:27.290 ⇒ 00:34:47.509 Demilade Agboola: or we had created a new way or a new tool implemented a new tool that maybe people on team didn’t know we would have sessions where they would hop in we would run them through what we did run them through how it’s meant to be used, run them through potentially like the guidance, like governance and stuff like oh, this is who has access to this as well.
370 00:34:48.817 ⇒ 00:34:51.139 Demilade Agboola: Let them know, like feel safe, that we’ve implemented
371 00:34:51.696 ⇒ 00:34:58.670 Demilade Agboola: and then that’s it like, but I think that space is is a different space from
372 00:34:59.300 ⇒ 00:35:04.959 Demilade Agboola: kind of how we only seem to interact with any stand up. I think that’s that interaction is, too.
373 00:35:05.670 ⇒ 00:35:11.449 Demilade Agboola: It’s 2 attack versus defense for you to get like that. Experts.
374 00:35:11.770 ⇒ 00:35:12.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
375 00:35:12.640 ⇒ 00:35:16.320 Demilade Agboola: You know, I feel we need to have more like neutral spaces where all.
376 00:35:16.320 ⇒ 00:35:16.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
377 00:35:16.840 ⇒ 00:35:32.650 Demilade Agboola: Us in the ascendancy where it’s like, hey? So this is what we’ve done. This is these are the fail safe. These are the things that we we’ve done so far. And this is even like the long term roadmap for what we’re still going to do. So like we’ve done in great. This is the impact so far. But just imagine us even building further on this.
378 00:35:32.650 ⇒ 00:35:37.589 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s also just like producing. For example, our our version of this is producing that urban stems
379 00:35:37.790 ⇒ 00:36:00.190 Uttam Kumaran: document where I put in like, here are the key outcomes. Here are the key milestones. Here’s high priority. That was the 1st version of me, basically creating like a full project architecture. This business facing, not technical. More of like, we’re gonna move these key initiatives forward. But this is the thing is like, I I was almost asking the project managers to do that, but they don’t like.
380 00:36:00.770 ⇒ 00:36:07.350 Uttam Kumaran: They’re not like technical enough to set the priorities and sort of set the in the order.
381 00:36:07.480 ⇒ 00:36:24.620 Uttam Kumaran: They’re the day to day people, so I can never get my head around this 3.rd I mean, it’s what I started the conversation with you about, which is like this 3rd role, which is like, really, it’s like a nice coincidence that this 3rd role is really tough, right? Because I can walk into a meeting. And I’ll not only can point out
382 00:36:24.850 ⇒ 00:36:28.559 Uttam Kumaran: the Dbt job that’s failing, but then I can point out.
383 00:36:28.670 ⇒ 00:36:33.719 Uttam Kumaran: oh, you have multiple etl tools, and like we should consider a migration to something.
384 00:36:33.720 ⇒ 00:36:34.290 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
385 00:36:34.550 ⇒ 00:36:42.159 Uttam Kumaran: That level of like. But then the thing is I don’t. What I don’t like to do is I don’t want to be in stand ups taking tickets
386 00:36:42.410 ⇒ 00:36:48.624 Uttam Kumaran: right? That’s like, not a good use of my time for the company. And then, secondly, is
387 00:36:49.810 ⇒ 00:37:00.630 Uttam Kumaran: So so one is like, Yeah, I don’t. Wanna. I don’t wanna be taking small tickets just here. And then the second thing is, I want to show that we’re bigger than just like taking on engineering tickets. I want to share that. We can think
388 00:37:01.020 ⇒ 00:37:06.670 Uttam Kumaran: bigger picture. And I want to have us think longer term. So we can sell longer contracts right?
389 00:37:08.470 ⇒ 00:37:10.260 Uttam Kumaran: So. But the the
390 00:37:10.590 ⇒ 00:37:23.379 Uttam Kumaran: the engineers, commonly engineers, don’t have enough business expertise to go up, and the project managers aren’t technical enough to go down. So you need like the sort of project architecture.
391 00:37:23.670 ⇒ 00:37:25.929 Uttam Kumaran: whatever. I don’t know what this role is.
392 00:37:26.090 ⇒ 00:37:39.809 Uttam Kumaran: but if you’re interested in like heading that direction, then there’s a huge gap we have, because right now, right now it’s mainly me and Robert and I would think it’s mostly me, because a lot of our projects are now getting beyond just product analytics
393 00:37:40.220 ⇒ 00:37:44.410 Uttam Kumaran: where we’re doing. I mean, the urban sums document is a great document where we’re doing
394 00:37:44.610 ⇒ 00:38:00.520 Uttam Kumaran: changes in Etl changes in warehouse changes in modeling changes in bi changes in governance, changes in virgin like, you have to be able to fit all that in your head and then be like, okay, let me orchestrate what needs to happen and why, and then translate it to a non technical or semi technical audience.
395 00:38:00.880 ⇒ 00:38:03.529 Uttam Kumaran: We need, we have a huge gap there, for sure.
396 00:38:03.880 ⇒ 00:38:05.630 Demilade Agboola: Definitely. Definitely.
397 00:38:06.254 ⇒ 00:38:21.199 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think that that’s just something that I just noticed and that that’s like all in all, I’m happy like the products I’m on are like stable, and being able to be a part of that and help stabilize the project. Great, but like
398 00:38:21.520 ⇒ 00:38:27.550 Demilade Agboola: long term, I don’t. I don’t. I like I definitely don’t feel comfortable in the sense that like
399 00:38:29.130 ⇒ 00:38:34.619 Demilade Agboola: when, if it’s time for renewals, or I think those kind of those sort of conversations I feel like
400 00:38:35.440 ⇒ 00:38:39.750 Demilade Agboola: it would be purely evaluated as a oh, how many tickets did these people.
401 00:38:39.750 ⇒ 00:38:41.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.
402 00:38:41.230 ⇒ 00:38:45.210 Demilade Agboola: Versus like, no, like we know the business impact that has been had.
403 00:38:45.210 ⇒ 00:38:45.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
404 00:38:45.700 ⇒ 00:39:10.319 Demilade Agboola: How much these people have have been able to like. Put us in the right track and help us save time, save resources, save you know whatever and how much visibility they brought us to things that were previously not visible, we know, like they’re like, they’re able to actually pinpoint a lot of these changes. Everyone, the technical, like, from technical perspective to the business perspective, they have a clear 360 view of what was.
405 00:39:10.320 ⇒ 00:39:10.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
406 00:39:11.800 ⇒ 00:39:22.530 Demilade Agboola: And I feel like that helps cause even if we don’t. We hadn’t accomplished a couple of tickets. A couple of tickets like they can still go. Like, yeah, we’re we’re set up for success. Like we know, we’re set up for success. We know.
407 00:39:22.530 ⇒ 00:39:30.430 Uttam Kumaran: So you want it to almost be like renewals, like a comical question, like, of course, we’re gonna renew like they’re like they’re doing so much.
408 00:39:30.520 ⇒ 00:39:31.160 Demilade Agboola: Exactly.
409 00:39:31.160 ⇒ 00:39:34.199 Uttam Kumaran: You’re right, and we’re sitting on that. We’re not. We’re just not displaying that.
410 00:39:34.350 ⇒ 00:39:39.350 Uttam Kumaran: You know how. How can like? How can I? How can we accomplish this
411 00:39:39.700 ⇒ 00:39:46.300 Uttam Kumaran: like? Try to get something for for Eden and for urban stems, or even our other clients like
412 00:39:46.750 ⇒ 00:39:49.819 Uttam Kumaran: this week like, how can I enable you to just like, try to
413 00:39:50.030 ⇒ 00:39:54.300 Uttam Kumaran: try something at that. You have our whole marketing team. You have.
414 00:39:54.440 ⇒ 00:40:02.319 Uttam Kumaran: You have amber on the Pm. Side, like I would love to to. I don’t know whether you think this is a deck or a document, or whatever.
415 00:40:02.500 ⇒ 00:40:03.270 Uttam Kumaran: but.
416 00:40:04.300 ⇒ 00:40:10.130 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think I think I think.
417 00:40:10.490 ⇒ 00:40:15.130 Demilade Agboola: like, for instance, even Eden, we’ve we’ve done like rejects for the.
418 00:40:15.130 ⇒ 00:40:15.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
419 00:40:15.580 ⇒ 00:40:17.770 Demilade Agboola: Notification of of orders right?
420 00:40:18.694 ⇒ 00:40:22.509 Demilade Agboola: Being able to like, actually show what that means
421 00:40:23.260 ⇒ 00:40:41.179 Demilade Agboola: like beyond, just like, oh, like, we don’t really think what does actually mean, what orders were previously misclassified, that currently classified? And how does that improve our counting of orders like even now? Robert and I are thinking about it, but like bundles come in, and we only attribute it to the 1st rejects that is caught
422 00:40:41.370 ⇒ 00:40:42.240 Demilade Agboola: right.
423 00:40:42.530 ⇒ 00:41:09.370 Demilade Agboola: But how about we figure out like what we’re going to do next is like split out into the different bundles, because now they have something called med kits. And so when Medkits comes in Medkits is an automatic bundle like it’s 2 different variant ids coming in. So how do we split it to the different variant? Ids? It’s just being able to figure that out is like very important. And so now not only are we doing this, but we’re helping you get better. Accurate counts of what’s going on in your numbers.
424 00:41:09.480 ⇒ 00:41:12.130 Demilade Agboola: and I don’t feel like we give ourselves enough credit for that like.
425 00:41:12.130 ⇒ 00:41:14.439 Uttam Kumaran: No, we don’t. We’re not at all.
426 00:41:14.660 ⇒ 00:41:16.720 Demilade Agboola: Exactly so. Things like that just be.
427 00:41:16.720 ⇒ 00:41:21.449 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, that’s but that’s been a historic problem with us, because we we knew that we have these higher level things. But it’s like.
428 00:41:21.690 ⇒ 00:41:40.250 Uttam Kumaran: It’s purely just a function of someone needs that responsibility. So I would love nothing more than if you’re interested in taking this for us to enable you to do that. I don’t know what the title is. I don’t know like what the thing but you. I think we’re pretty aligned on something around this like Project Architect.
429 00:41:40.400 ⇒ 00:42:01.819 Uttam Kumaran: which is not only architecting what the scope of the project is, but it’s also the show right? It’s also showing. Once we’ve executed it. It’s not something any of our engineers will typically be able to do. It’s not something our project managers will do, because the project managers are going to be the one that’s saying what’s coming down the pipe? What’s being done? But
430 00:42:02.130 ⇒ 00:42:06.369 Uttam Kumaran: they’re out of their depth. If they’re gonna go. Explain why we’ve looked around the corner.
431 00:42:06.570 ⇒ 00:42:11.409 Uttam Kumaran: All of those things, though, our ability to get the day to day done, our ability to look around the corner.
432 00:42:11.620 ⇒ 00:42:16.060 Uttam Kumaran: all of those things need to happen for us to have the best odds of renewal right.
433 00:42:16.060 ⇒ 00:42:16.820 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
434 00:42:16.820 ⇒ 00:42:19.599 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So I think if that’s something that
435 00:42:20.120 ⇒ 00:42:23.000 Uttam Kumaran: that like really gives you energy.
436 00:42:23.170 ⇒ 00:42:36.500 Uttam Kumaran: And of course, I encourage you to think even beyond that. Where do you think that could go like we should? We should plan on doing something for both of these clients, maybe this week, where we can think of it, if it’s like, even if it’s a 5 5 slide deck
437 00:42:36.770 ⇒ 00:42:37.800 Uttam Kumaran: or.
438 00:42:38.040 ⇒ 00:42:45.459 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, it’s not. It’s not. Yeah. It’s not meant to be like the again, it depends on the audience. But it’s not always meant to be like the most technical stuff.
439 00:42:45.460 ⇒ 00:42:46.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
440 00:42:46.820 ⇒ 00:42:53.840 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s where it’s like for you. I want you to think about what and then you can. You can have marketing, help you with the presentation.
441 00:42:54.080 ⇒ 00:42:55.040 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like.
442 00:42:55.190 ⇒ 00:43:03.290 Uttam Kumaran: basically because they have a bunch of deck formats. And like, if you take a 1st pass at it, hand it to them to say like, Help me make it really pretty, they will.
443 00:43:03.420 ⇒ 00:43:20.820 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s why, like, I’ve gotten them on the habit of like creating a lot of decks that are really well designed, because I want I want us to come across like we like belong in the conversation of being able to charge more, get 6 month engagements like, go bigger and take on more. And this is a key piece
444 00:43:21.060 ⇒ 00:43:39.209 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve I think we’ve we’re doing. We’re doing good on the day to day execution. We’re doing better at the project management like week to week. Now we need to manage sort of like the high level execution we’ve done it, but all like quite a bit of his. Come from me and Robert, and that’s like a huge risk for the business, you know.
445 00:43:39.440 ⇒ 00:43:41.250 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, fair fair.
446 00:43:41.470 ⇒ 00:43:45.622 Demilade Agboola: But yeah, I’ll I’ll definitely look into that this week.
447 00:43:47.240 ⇒ 00:43:55.609 Demilade Agboola: trying to clap like my plates on like Eden and open stems. It’s just like some stuff going on in terms of like, I’ll investigate this figure out like this is happening.
448 00:43:55.610 ⇒ 00:43:56.250 Uttam Kumaran: I see.
449 00:43:56.566 ⇒ 00:43:59.099 Demilade Agboola: But yeah, that’s that’s definitely not a problem.
450 00:44:01.610 ⇒ 00:44:05.459 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I I think for me, that’s just like, like my major, like.
451 00:44:05.590 ⇒ 00:44:10.479 Demilade Agboola: negative quote unquote feedback, I think, for the most part everything else has been like in a good spot.
452 00:44:10.860 ⇒ 00:44:11.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
453 00:44:11.350 ⇒ 00:44:19.910 Uttam Kumaran: I think I think, spend some time and think about like, now that you have this sort of North Star. Think about the reflection goals.
454 00:44:20.180 ⇒ 00:44:40.520 Uttam Kumaran: milestones like. If you have a chance to walk through that, take a stab at that. I definitely want to see like we’re starting. I’m starting to try to round out. Okay, what is this next layer of of folks in the company that are gonna start to own big pieces because I don’t. I don’t want people like you people like a wish
455 00:44:40.951 ⇒ 00:45:03.720 Uttam Kumaran: who are very senior, to be still taking on one off tickets with a majority of her time. We are going to supplement you with people that can take that on. But your leverage is way higher. And so I want to make sure that you’re in a position where you can take advantage of that, and that you’re able to actually impact projects and clients in a much, much bigger way, because you can hold multiple things.
456 00:45:03.960 ⇒ 00:45:12.940 Uttam Kumaran: you know, in your brain. But also, I think all 3 of us still love to do the day to day stuff like I’m so happy to do here. Stuff here and there.
457 00:45:13.670 ⇒ 00:45:19.209 Demilade Agboola: Actually another thing I was thinking of was also like scoping like between like sales. And like.
458 00:45:19.480 ⇒ 00:45:25.780 Demilade Agboola: thanks, I think that’s a space I’m interested in in the sense it’ll be nice.
459 00:45:25.780 ⇒ 00:45:28.419 Uttam Kumaran: When we’re putting together the sows and stuff.
460 00:45:28.420 ⇒ 00:45:46.130 Demilade Agboola: Exactly sows, being able to like. Hear what your clients, like potential clients, have as issues and being able to be like, hey, this is this is being able to pitch to them and be like, hey? Your case sounds very familiar on like this.
461 00:45:46.130 ⇒ 00:45:46.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
462 00:45:46.470 ⇒ 00:45:52.140 Demilade Agboola: How we will need to solve this if you’re having issues with this, this is potentially the solution for that.
463 00:45:52.450 ⇒ 00:45:58.046 Uttam Kumaran: You should totally hear. Why not? Because I I’m the one that typically comes on with Robert, and then I’ll do like the
464 00:45:58.600 ⇒ 00:46:11.599 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll usually be like, kind of do play like a little sales engineering where I’m like, yeah, we’ve clients. We’ve typically done this or what tools do you use things like that. I’ll ask him to just start to include you on the next one of those where you come in, because we try to play
465 00:46:12.067 ⇒ 00:46:15.540 Uttam Kumaran: either of us can probably answer both of those, but
466 00:46:16.050 ⇒ 00:46:19.020 Uttam Kumaran: they wanna they want to see that we’re a bigger company.
467 00:46:19.170 ⇒ 00:46:44.359 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, Robert, I brought on like Tom, who, like leads all of our engineering stuff. He can answer any of your technical questions. That sort of stuff helps. So I’ll ask him just to include you. So that way you’re involved in I don’t know what’s if there’s a word called pre sales. But this is more of like project scoping pre close like helping Rob helping Robert and sales basically put together the scope of work, understanding how many hours it’s gonna take, what tools is gonna involve.
468 00:46:44.920 ⇒ 00:47:00.299 Uttam Kumaran: Again, that’s something where that’s that’s 100 of like what’s falling on me. Where I would love to start looping you in. If you haven’t joined, you should join the Sales channel where? Okay? So we’re starting to see stuff going on in there.
469 00:47:00.725 ⇒ 00:47:03.380 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’ll start to share with you more about.
470 00:47:03.660 ⇒ 00:47:10.410 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll I’ll share with you our sows, and I’ll let Robert know. I’ll also add you to our sales meetings.
471 00:47:10.950 ⇒ 00:47:18.500 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know again. I think it’s rare, I think again for our company. I don’t think just about like, Oh, you want to go, IC, or you want to be a manager.
472 00:47:18.740 ⇒ 00:47:22.479 Uttam Kumaran: I wanted people to stretch a little bit, and so if a stretch for you is like
473 00:47:23.049 ⇒ 00:47:28.640 Uttam Kumaran: let’s stretch to do sales. Let’s also do some of this project architecture. Let’s continue developing.
474 00:47:28.900 ⇒ 00:47:31.199 Demilade Agboola: And that’s amazing. Right cause I cause.
475 00:47:31.500 ⇒ 00:47:34.759 Uttam Kumaran: Because we’re all sort of stretching a bunch, for example, a wish
476 00:47:35.070 ⇒ 00:47:51.139 Uttam Kumaran: he’s like interested in managing people. He’s interested in being more of like technical, like leading some of the platform initiatives like choosing vendors and stuff. So that way, I’m like perfect, too, because he wants to build. He wants to manage some people, but he also wants to sort of do some of this like tech lead sort of work
477 00:47:51.500 ⇒ 00:47:55.109 Uttam Kumaran: in commonly in companies, you’d be like one thing it’d be like, you’re either managing
478 00:47:55.360 ⇒ 00:47:58.550 Uttam Kumaran: or you’re like, you’re like a senior tech lead.
479 00:47:58.850 ⇒ 00:48:00.699 Uttam Kumaran: or you’re like selling. And I’m like
480 00:48:00.990 ⇒ 00:48:25.809 Uttam Kumaran: people can. As long as you’re comfortable, you can go because it’s all a flow, and maybe later down the line we’ll have more well defined roles. But if helping you scope projects, helping you decide on project architecture, scoping projects. Then you should also come to all the vendor calls I’m having with like picking who the vendors we want to partner with our like how would they? How picking the right vendor, you know, is helpful for our clients things like that.
481 00:48:26.000 ⇒ 00:48:30.600 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s that’s helpful for me to know, because I’ll just start looping you into some of that stuff.
482 00:48:30.600 ⇒ 00:48:32.730 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not sure if it’s your network or mine. But.
483 00:48:33.080 ⇒ 00:48:34.940 Demilade Agboola: Okay. It doesn’t mind.
484 00:48:35.260 ⇒ 00:48:36.449 Uttam Kumaran: Can you hear me now?
485 00:48:40.060 ⇒ 00:48:43.579 Demilade Agboola: Maybe your personal network is like glitching. I have no idea why.
486 00:48:44.100 ⇒ 00:48:45.500 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, one, second.
487 00:48:51.850 ⇒ 00:48:52.919 Demilade Agboola: Can you hear me now?
488 00:48:52.920 ⇒ 00:48:53.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
489 00:48:55.270 ⇒ 00:48:56.110 Uttam Kumaran: Can you hear me?
490 00:49:03.310 ⇒ 00:49:04.370 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
491 00:49:06.710 ⇒ 00:49:07.540 Demilade Agboola: Can you hear me now?
492 00:49:07.710 ⇒ 00:49:08.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
493 00:49:09.140 ⇒ 00:49:10.750 Demilade Agboola: I have no idea what happened, but.
494 00:49:10.750 ⇒ 00:49:11.535 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
495 00:49:12.320 ⇒ 00:49:15.760 Demilade Agboola: So there are 2 broadbands actually to the 5G. 1.
496 00:49:16.000 ⇒ 00:49:21.739 Demilade Agboola: Okay, no, no, you’re good. No. I was mainly saying that like, I’ll just start including you on stuff where we’re making like.
497 00:49:21.850 ⇒ 00:49:25.079 Uttam Kumaran: Vendor decisions, and more like project architecture stuff.
498 00:49:25.390 ⇒ 00:49:25.740 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
499 00:49:27.180 ⇒ 00:49:33.520 Uttam Kumaran: And then the yeah, the marketing team is is totally, you know, up for utilization by every team.
500 00:49:33.670 ⇒ 00:49:38.079 Uttam Kumaran: So if you want help making better diagrams, making decks, making documents
501 00:49:38.410 ⇒ 00:49:48.210 Uttam Kumaran: like, that’s all the stuff I wanna I want to have them. They’re basically marketing as a platform. So anything we need that involves well designed stuff. Well organized stuff
502 00:49:49.040 ⇒ 00:49:52.150 Uttam Kumaran: just diverted there like. Don’t don’t spend too much time.
503 00:49:52.490 ⇒ 00:49:56.950 Uttam Kumaran: Get a version of it, and then have them redesign it. So let’s that’s
504 00:49:56.950 ⇒ 00:50:05.479 Uttam Kumaran: let’s push towards that. Spend a little bit of time on this goal section, and then I would love. I would love for me, you and Robert to meet sometime later this week
505 00:50:05.680 ⇒ 00:50:21.989 Uttam Kumaran: to maybe just like run through these goals. I want to talk specifically about how we can get you into a role that’s more around project architecture, more around sort of this, like sales enablement project scoping piece as well.
506 00:50:22.180 ⇒ 00:50:29.029 Uttam Kumaran: Hopefully, that’ll scale you up there. I still think, probably between me, you and a wish
507 00:50:29.550 ⇒ 00:50:39.060 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna do all the the interviewing, most likely. So I think we can spend a moment talking about that. But I was, gonna say, we’re we’re at. We’re above. We’re like 3 0 9. So I don’t know if you have to jump.
508 00:50:39.780 ⇒ 00:50:42.899 Demilade Agboola: No, no, I don’t have any meetings today.
509 00:50:43.080 ⇒ 00:50:45.210 Demilade Agboola: I was going to say for the interviews.
510 00:50:46.058 ⇒ 00:50:48.450 Demilade Agboola: Just high level feedback.
511 00:50:53.650 ⇒ 00:50:54.670 Demilade Agboola: I find, like.
512 00:50:54.900 ⇒ 00:51:00.009 Demilade Agboola: The more the more technical people are between Sergio and Rostislav.
513 00:51:01.100 ⇒ 00:51:01.770 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
514 00:51:01.770 ⇒ 00:51:09.370 Demilade Agboola: I mean, there are people who are like software engineers who transition into data people. However, I I really said to Alex
515 00:51:09.530 ⇒ 00:51:18.580 Demilade Agboola: or Alexander, but he said I could call him Alex. So because he was very data.
516 00:51:19.570 ⇒ 00:51:32.589 Demilade Agboola: He’s a data problem solver. I don’t know how to explain beyond that. But like the when I was when I was interviewing him. And I’m asking him questions about like, what’s a technical issue you’ve had, or technical. It was more challenging projects you worked on.
517 00:51:32.620 ⇒ 00:51:56.180 Demilade Agboola: and one of the things he said was just like building out things, and then, realizing that the people didn’t necessarily need them. And I was like also, how do you go about solving that? And he says every time he works on a project he literally has calls with the stakeholders literally gets what they need, and then he does a v 1 to ensure that he’s still on track with that, and he deals that which is something like again, you can have the best skills in the world. But if you’re not constantly aware of that, you’re going
518 00:51:56.780 ⇒ 00:51:57.689 Demilade Agboola: will fall out of sync.
519 00:51:57.690 ⇒ 00:51:59.240 Uttam Kumaran: Especially in an agency. Yeah.
520 00:51:59.240 ⇒ 00:52:00.130 Demilade Agboola: Exactly
521 00:52:01.350 ⇒ 00:52:12.699 Demilade Agboola: and that’s not to say he’s like badly skilled, but, like the other people clearly, are like more skilled in terms of the technical ability than he is. But like, I think, I just really gravitated especially for, like a product analyst role.
522 00:52:12.890 ⇒ 00:52:16.370 Demilade Agboola: I think that that is something that would set him apart.
523 00:52:16.806 ⇒ 00:52:20.790 Demilade Agboola: And I think I don’t know. The technical skills can be learned like
524 00:52:20.930 ⇒ 00:52:38.710 Demilade Agboola: if, especially if your foundation is good, your technical skills can be learned, and it’s not like he has a bad technical skill. He’s also been around like in terms of data. General being a data generalist having to work on pipelines and all that, and he also has some current experience, like leading a team of like 2 general, 2 junior like analysts.
525 00:52:39.561 ⇒ 00:52:43.910 Demilade Agboola: So I I lean more to Alex.
526 00:52:43.910 ⇒ 00:52:44.510 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
527 00:52:45.980 ⇒ 00:52:53.405 Demilade Agboola: And then, yeah, I think I lean more to Alex as the the person I I felt was.
528 00:52:53.650 ⇒ 00:53:00.039 Uttam Kumaran: Because, you know, the the times. What we’ve we’ve struggled is when we bring on people that are purely focused on just like.
529 00:53:00.170 ⇒ 00:53:02.420 Uttam Kumaran: what’s the ticket. Let me get the ticket done.
530 00:53:02.540 ⇒ 00:53:07.070 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m trying to get people that we wanna have work on the system
531 00:53:07.350 ⇒ 00:53:15.420 Uttam Kumaran: right? Because all of us we can take on tickets. But part of the data platform approach is that we want people who in their respective domains
532 00:53:15.750 ⇒ 00:53:20.960 Uttam Kumaran: can like be a partner to like, how do we improve for the next client? How do we show off our work more?
533 00:53:21.380 ⇒ 00:53:27.880 Uttam Kumaran: So you need some self-awareness, right? You need some self awareness and some ability to articulate
534 00:53:28.290 ⇒ 00:53:32.799 Uttam Kumaran: the fact that you know it’s not just like throwing data at a problem right?
535 00:53:33.390 ⇒ 00:53:36.649 Uttam Kumaran: so if he’s like, if he’s the one that you think is
536 00:53:37.090 ⇒ 00:53:41.169 Uttam Kumaran: is worth moving forward on. Then let me. I’ll go ahead and talk to him.
537 00:53:41.630 ⇒ 00:53:55.780 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll go ahead and schedule time to talk to him. I thought Sergio was pretty good as well. I don’t know how interested he is. I think he’s maybe again just good to like I put a bunch. I put some people as just like they’re gonna take tickets and nail them.
538 00:53:56.404 ⇒ 00:53:59.229 Uttam Kumaran: I also think about some other people as yeah.
539 00:53:59.230 ⇒ 00:54:16.119 Demilade Agboola: That’s kind of like the the technical. But yeah, yeah, I can tell, like he’s he doesn’t work with Dbt, or he hasn’t actually. But, like again, from his experience, I I can tell he’ll ramp up quickly or figure it out like he’s not this, but like he just gave the he didn’t really give the vibe of someone who necessarily was
540 00:54:18.330 ⇒ 00:54:21.300 Demilade Agboola: the data problem solver. And I think that’s like a.
541 00:54:21.630 ⇒ 00:54:25.120 Uttam Kumaran: Do you think it’s like an obsession thing like, what do you think that is
542 00:54:27.040 ⇒ 00:54:31.309 Uttam Kumaran: like? How do we start to like bought? How do we start to like, identify this.
543 00:54:34.640 ⇒ 00:54:37.259 Demilade Agboola: I think it’s in. It’s in honesty.
544 00:54:37.480 ⇒ 00:54:46.320 Demilade Agboola: It’s in how people solve problems like one of the things like when I started learning tech and get into tech. One of the things I did was, there’s something called like humor center design.
545 00:54:46.850 ⇒ 00:54:47.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
546 00:54:47.690 ⇒ 00:54:48.860 Demilade Agboola: Is like
547 00:54:49.210 ⇒ 00:55:01.999 Demilade Agboola: you need to learn how to design for the people here who you’re solving for. And there’s this case about how like there was a remote village in Southern Africa can’t remember the exact country that they had issues with water.
548 00:55:02.280 ⇒ 00:55:20.120 Demilade Agboola: and then they designed this well like they developed a well close to back their quarters for them, and then discovered that, like it kept getting destroyed, no matter how much they repaired it like, it will keep getting destroyed. And then they did some research, and then discovered that most people lived in like a 1 room house.
549 00:55:20.500 ⇒ 00:55:28.190 Demilade Agboola: and the only times they could get any privacy between, like the parents was when the kids went out to go fetch water so they needed the well as far as possible.
550 00:55:28.460 ⇒ 00:55:32.420 Demilade Agboola: so eventually, like them building a well, even though it solved the problem of water.
551 00:55:32.710 ⇒ 00:55:47.099 Demilade Agboola: It was affecting the relations between the parents, and like they were like. No like. We need our privacy. And so like, you can solve a problem. And I on the surface of it’s solving the problem. But like the other things where, like, potentially.
552 00:55:47.620 ⇒ 00:55:53.629 Demilade Agboola: people need it differently, like the same way. The same way. The way Josh wants to look at his exact dashboard
553 00:55:53.800 ⇒ 00:56:01.850 Demilade Agboola: will be different from how the people want to look at the exact, their dashboards right? Like what they need to see, what they need to action.
554 00:56:02.410 ⇒ 00:56:07.339 Demilade Agboola: What their call to action is very different. And if you’re not, if it’s like in a
555 00:56:07.580 ⇒ 00:56:11.180 Demilade Agboola: ticket mindset of like, I need to keep just turning our dashboards.
556 00:56:11.180 ⇒ 00:56:14.039 Uttam Kumaran: I know you just have. You just have no care for the impact.
557 00:56:14.300 ⇒ 00:56:14.680 Demilade Agboola: Exactly.
558 00:56:14.680 ⇒ 00:56:22.559 Uttam Kumaran: This is like such I this is why, like I, I feel like the people I gravitated towards bringing on to Brainforge, even though I didn’t.
559 00:56:22.820 ⇒ 00:56:29.240 Uttam Kumaran: You know, I some people struggle technically, but everybody I focused on empathy.
560 00:56:29.340 ⇒ 00:56:34.000 Uttam Kumaran: I focus on some obsession with some part of the data stack
561 00:56:34.220 ⇒ 00:56:37.289 Uttam Kumaran: right? And then generally being able to like
562 00:56:38.150 ⇒ 00:56:43.820 Uttam Kumaran: being able to look at it as just like there’s a problem set, and I’m solving the problem
563 00:56:43.990 ⇒ 00:56:48.050 Uttam Kumaran: not necessary like, wake up and do a ticket and do a ticket, do a ticket. It’s like
564 00:56:48.370 ⇒ 00:56:51.969 Uttam Kumaran: they’re like, whether it’s for here or here. I don’t care like I’m just here to
565 00:56:52.410 ⇒ 00:56:54.450 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna get it done, no matter what you know.
566 00:56:54.670 ⇒ 00:56:56.220 Demilade Agboola: Here. Here’s a funny thing.
567 00:56:56.670 ⇒ 00:57:04.479 Demilade Agboola: I know I was talking to Alex, and then he says that he’s he’s a big dungeons and dragons person.
568 00:57:04.480 ⇒ 00:57:05.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
569 00:57:05.150 ⇒ 00:57:10.319 Demilade Agboola: And that to him he enjoys that, and that allows him to even see data that way as like creating his own world.
570 00:57:10.320 ⇒ 00:57:11.139 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
571 00:57:11.140 ⇒ 00:57:13.449 Demilade Agboola: And it was like, Okay, I would.
572 00:57:13.450 ⇒ 00:57:13.970 Uttam Kumaran: That’s right.
573 00:57:13.970 ⇒ 00:57:17.009 Demilade Agboola: Technology. But like, you can tell that this is someone who has like.
574 00:57:17.550 ⇒ 00:57:23.409 Uttam Kumaran: Some actual natural curiosity and natural interest. And that’s like someone you know. This is why I think a lot about
575 00:57:23.570 ⇒ 00:57:51.939 Uttam Kumaran: for us who who have, who have done a lot of how do we like? Take people like that, who, like Annie, is a great example of someone who’s very junior? She has a lot of interest. She hasn’t been enabled to do things like Dbt. In the past, but she’s totally capable. But then it’s perfect when she’s in our company, because you’re sort of can go do whatever you want here, and we can enable that versus if you’re only used to doing one thing and you like you’re you’re you’re either trained, whether you know it or not, to throw it over the fence.
576 00:57:52.060 ⇒ 00:57:53.920 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, like models broken.
577 00:57:55.180 ⇒ 00:58:11.249 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like dude. Come on like what it’s. So so I’m trying to build that, because then it allows us to all flex. A little bit more builds more resilient teams, and it builds more camaraderie. So okay, so I’ll call. I’ll call Alexander first, st and then.
578 00:58:12.620 ⇒ 00:58:15.040 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, we’ll see how that goes, you know.
579 00:58:15.570 ⇒ 00:58:19.019 Demilade Agboola: Sounds good. Just send me your thoughts about him when when you have to call him.
580 00:58:19.310 ⇒ 00:58:19.860 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
581 00:58:20.300 ⇒ 00:58:23.259 Demilade Agboola: And then I’ll book. I’ll book time for maybe Thursday.
582 00:58:23.610 ⇒ 00:58:32.520 Uttam Kumaran: Or Friday to maybe review these goals, and then I’ll I’ll put time just between me, you and Robert, and then, or sometime or yeah.
583 00:58:32.520 ⇒ 00:58:36.709 Demilade Agboola: I saw the thing on like. So when you say
584 00:58:36.890 ⇒ 00:58:46.890 Demilade Agboola: on the notion board or not notion, but a notion page where it’s like like when you say seeing you, you see, you find ways to teach such. Get more leverage from your time.
585 00:58:47.030 ⇒ 00:58:52.139 Demilade Agboola: What what outputs do you have in mind or like. What did you kind of see in that regard?
586 00:58:53.350 ⇒ 00:58:57.399 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I I think I just think about
587 00:58:57.920 ⇒ 00:59:06.909 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of the way I I sort of. Now I’m I’m governing. Everybody is sort of what I had to do in order to leverage in order to increase my leverage in the organization.
588 00:59:07.070 ⇒ 00:59:15.709 Uttam Kumaran: one of which is really just enabling people that are more junior or who are maybe not. Maybe Junior is not even it, but just like less
589 00:59:16.156 ⇒ 00:59:42.950 Uttam Kumaran: data inclined, which could be folks like Amber could be some of our junior folks on the data side. So part of it is like seeing seeing you spend time with them when they’re dealing with problems and helping them solve it. Kind of like, probably very similarly, to how you spend time with with Emily. Right? But also this can happen in multiple ways. So my main piece there was, I think, all of us have the capabilities teach
590 00:59:43.100 ⇒ 01:00:11.999 Uttam Kumaran: all of us, especially the folks who have benefited a lot from teaching, I think we should give it back. So this is for folks like Annie, for Kyle, for Luke, for amber. This could be other folks on the AI team as well. So teaching them about data and like, if finding ways to assist them, and and more of like not saying Do it, and then say, here’s how to do it. But walking through a pair programming things like that, and then getting more leverage from your time is really what we talked about, which was
591 01:00:12.160 ⇒ 01:00:15.640 Uttam Kumaran: the project architecture project scoping. How do you elevate?
592 01:00:15.960 ⇒ 01:00:27.800 Uttam Kumaran: I was basically just wanted to see, like I assumed you’re gonna have some answer, what whether it’s oh, I want to manage people. I want to go and trying to do this project architecture so that the second piece was just like nailing that down.
593 01:00:28.400 ⇒ 01:00:33.544 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah. Also, I would. In in a way, I I wouldn’t mind.
594 01:00:37.880 ⇒ 01:00:41.009 Demilade Agboola: I mean, kind of like what we talked about like the whole
595 01:00:41.680 ⇒ 01:00:48.500 Demilade Agboola: syncing with people like you, you said like Oatian, I believe, was Annie, and then myself and Carol? Or was it.
596 01:00:48.500 ⇒ 01:00:50.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
597 01:00:50.210 ⇒ 01:00:55.149 Demilade Agboola: The the like kind of pairing, whereas, like being able to walk with people and figure out like.
598 01:00:55.150 ⇒ 01:00:55.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
599 01:00:55.760 ⇒ 01:01:00.136 Demilade Agboola: What are you struggling with? How can I assist you? Is there anything that could help?
600 01:01:00.890 ⇒ 01:01:02.500 Demilade Agboola: I’m potentially like
601 01:01:02.970 ⇒ 01:01:21.689 Demilade Agboola: being able to figure out what problems that they’re having can allow us to even build better systems, such that we’re able to like build more robust systems that can handle these things in terms of hey? If they struggle with this? Or if they have issues with this, how about we figure out ways in which we can circumnavigate this, because sometimes
602 01:01:23.950 ⇒ 01:01:26.350 Demilade Agboola: it’s hard to build.
603 01:01:27.360 ⇒ 01:01:36.180 Demilade Agboola: because, like what? What I might consider easy or like, simple or like straightforward. And I’m like, Oh, I don’t need something for that potentially could be hard to someone else of
604 01:01:36.770 ⇒ 01:01:43.379 Demilade Agboola: be able to see like why those gaps are and how to like build things, for that could be very helpful, or will be very helpful.
605 01:01:43.680 ⇒ 01:02:07.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So I think a lot about building our data team culture and camaraderie. The data platform work was my 1st go at it. It’s just anything I do. It’s it’s like a risk of it, like not moving forward just because of like dude. I I don’t know how many sales calls I was in last week. But it was like a blur. And so part of this is like, Yeah, I think I wanna
606 01:02:07.180 ⇒ 01:02:30.079 Uttam Kumaran: consider who can run and push that initiative forward. I think a way she’s really curious about improving the tools in our platform. I think I think you’re very well equipped on like stakeholder communication on project architecture as a whole sort of like engaging with the clients. But I think maybe we should. Maybe between the 3 of us
607 01:02:30.140 ⇒ 01:02:31.720 Uttam Kumaran: we’d find a way to like.
608 01:02:31.850 ⇒ 01:02:48.419 Uttam Kumaran: basically try to run a data platform meeting or something where we bring everybody together. I was also thinking about just doing like office hours, right where there’s just office hours where we’re available to answer data questions. Maybe that’s something that you and a wish
609 01:02:48.520 ⇒ 01:03:04.629 Uttam Kumaran: can sort of own, or or one of you can own where it’s just an open forum where people can come and ask data questions. I want to just sort of get that off of my hands, because it’s a real risk for the success of that project. If it’s coming through me just because my time is is so fluid.
610 01:03:05.219 ⇒ 01:03:08.809 Uttam Kumaran: That if you’re interested in in any one of those.
611 01:03:08.990 ⇒ 01:03:12.269 Uttam Kumaran: I think it would be great for for you to own whether it’s
612 01:03:12.970 ⇒ 01:03:17.854 Uttam Kumaran: moving the data platform stuff forward, or just owning one particular area and continue moving forward.
613 01:03:18.290 ⇒ 01:03:23.779 Uttam Kumaran: or sort of bunch of people in the company. Even the marketing team, the sales team. They need data help.
614 01:03:24.020 ⇒ 01:03:27.850 Uttam Kumaran: So just being a resource through like data office hours or something.
615 01:03:28.470 ⇒ 01:03:30.420 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I think there’s something there.
616 01:03:31.800 ⇒ 01:03:37.689 Demilade Agboola: Sounds good. I will try. Yeah, I think this office hours could be pretty cool. Maybe. You know
617 01:03:37.860 ⇒ 01:03:43.599 Demilade Agboola: Thursday meetings twice a week where, like anyone can hop on. If you’re having any issues, or you just wanna
618 01:03:43.880 ⇒ 01:03:44.920 Demilade Agboola: walk and talk.
619 01:03:45.410 ⇒ 01:03:45.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
620 01:03:46.780 ⇒ 01:03:47.320 Demilade Agboola: But yeah.
621 01:03:47.320 ⇒ 01:04:05.069 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I that’s all I was thinking, because I know the AI team has random questions. I think Annie and Kyle will probably join here and there. Luke will definitely join, and just gives us more opportunity to collaborate and have, like this, open session, like, you know, versus like every meeting is so focused on like one thing.
622 01:04:05.350 ⇒ 01:04:10.240 Uttam Kumaran: So maybe I’ll ping. I’ll how about I? How about? Why don’t we go ahead and set that up? I’ll I can.
623 01:04:10.570 ⇒ 01:04:15.970 Uttam Kumaran: Would you want to just like grab some time to own that, and maybe you can run it this week.
624 01:04:16.120 ⇒ 01:04:22.090 Uttam Kumaran: and then we can see. I mean between me, you and a wish. Probably one of us can run it every week, but
625 01:04:22.570 ⇒ 01:04:24.759 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. It’d be great if you want to own that.
626 01:04:26.651 ⇒ 01:04:28.710 Demilade Agboola: I think it might be.
627 01:04:30.080 ⇒ 01:04:40.720 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, we’ll we’ll definitely say, I think, yeah, we could find a day, maybe, like Wednesdays or or Tuesday. So I’m trying to think of like a timeline that works, and it’s sustainable, which is why I said 30 min twice a week. I think that.
628 01:04:40.720 ⇒ 01:04:41.400 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
629 01:04:41.400 ⇒ 01:04:47.470 Demilade Agboola: For example, timeline, because, you know there are like pockets that you could just kind of find.
630 01:04:47.470 ⇒ 01:04:54.409 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s why I was. That’s why. Previously I was doing an hour twice a week, so that in case people were blocked 1 30 min
631 01:04:54.610 ⇒ 01:04:56.130 Uttam Kumaran: they come to the rest.
632 01:04:56.340 ⇒ 01:05:01.180 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. But I think that’s harder to maintain, though, because is a lot of time.
633 01:05:01.550 ⇒ 01:05:03.689 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I want, or I mean
634 01:05:04.530 ⇒ 01:05:06.880 Uttam Kumaran: you could do an hour away should do an hour.
635 01:05:07.480 ⇒ 01:05:08.640 Demilade Agboola: Potentially yeah.
636 01:05:08.900 ⇒ 01:05:11.599 Uttam Kumaran: And then and then again, if no one comes, it’s like whatever.
637 01:05:12.050 ⇒ 01:05:13.399 Demilade Agboola: Oh, yeah, yeah.
638 01:05:14.300 ⇒ 01:05:18.110 Demilade Agboola: I saw good, like, you’re still getting work done, anyway. And it’s just like.
639 01:05:18.110 ⇒ 01:05:19.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
640 01:05:22.630 ⇒ 01:05:23.340 Demilade Agboola: I just want.
641 01:05:23.340 ⇒ 01:05:29.329 Uttam Kumaran: To give people more opportunity to ask for help, because a lot of people are, I think, slack isn’t like that conducive
642 01:05:29.610 ⇒ 01:05:33.880 Uttam Kumaran: for like asking for help, and the stand ups are so focused.
643 01:05:34.180 ⇒ 01:05:37.839 Uttam Kumaran: Everything else is Async. So I wanna have some more open time, you know.
644 01:05:38.570 ⇒ 01:05:42.300 Demilade Agboola: That is fair, I agree. I agree it. It’s very helpful to have that.
645 01:05:43.740 ⇒ 01:05:45.270 Demilade Agboola: It is very helpful to have that.
646 01:05:45.270 ⇒ 01:05:48.780 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe think of what? Think of whatever works. And then we can optimize later.
647 01:05:49.210 ⇒ 01:05:54.820 Demilade Agboola: Gotcha, I will! I will sit down and think of that, and we’ll see how that goes.
648 01:05:55.080 ⇒ 01:05:55.670 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
649 01:05:56.120 ⇒ 01:05:56.800 Demilade Agboola: Okay.
650 01:05:57.140 ⇒ 01:05:57.970 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Cool.
651 01:05:58.100 ⇒ 01:05:59.220 Uttam Kumaran: Great chat man.
652 01:05:59.410 ⇒ 01:05:59.740 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.
653 01:05:59.740 ⇒ 01:06:00.740 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you so much.
654 01:06:01.130 ⇒ 01:06:02.340 Demilade Agboola: Alright! Then have a great day.
655 01:06:02.710 ⇒ 01:06:04.179 Uttam Kumaran: You too, bye.