Meeting Title: Robert Tseng and Mats Engdahl Date: 2025-04-03 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Mats Engdahl
WEBVTT
1 00:05:10.710 ⇒ 00:05:11.680 Mats Engdahl: Hello!
2 00:05:14.620 ⇒ 00:05:15.320 Robert Tseng: Hey!
3 00:05:18.150 ⇒ 00:05:19.340 Mats Engdahl: Hey! How are you?
4 00:05:19.710 ⇒ 00:05:20.779 Robert Tseng: Good! How are you?
5 00:05:22.050 ⇒ 00:05:29.990 Mats Engdahl: I’m doing well. I’m I’m sorry that sorry.
6 00:05:32.280 ⇒ 00:05:34.730 Mats Engdahl: I’m sorry that I
7 00:05:36.800 ⇒ 00:05:40.369 Mats Engdahl: reschedule this once. I appreciate your flexibility.
8 00:05:40.660 ⇒ 00:05:43.289 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no worries. I’m glad we could find some time to chat
9 00:05:46.220 ⇒ 00:05:51.642 Mats Engdahl: So you’ll have to bear with me a little bit. I would say,
10 00:05:54.890 ⇒ 00:06:03.879 Mats Engdahl: I’m obviously not like a data engineer, or a software engineer. So my explanation of
11 00:06:04.270 ⇒ 00:06:12.579 Mats Engdahl: kind of like what I’m trying to accomplish here will probably come off like a little bit as a luddite to you.
12 00:06:13.885 ⇒ 00:06:17.029 Mats Engdahl: So forgive me for that.
13 00:06:17.300 ⇒ 00:06:21.679 Robert Tseng: No, no, I mean, that’s I talk to non dated people all the time. That’s what I’m here for.
14 00:06:22.520 ⇒ 00:06:23.730 Mats Engdahl: So.
15 00:06:27.160 ⇒ 00:06:38.349 Mats Engdahl: let let me let me ask you a few questions to start. Are you? Are you familiar with our company at all, at all. Kind of what we do
16 00:06:38.760 ⇒ 00:06:52.329 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I know some of I know, like Friday viewers, and like, I’ve kind of I didn’t I? The media Ecom mix is interesting. I don’t feel like I’ve seen too many of companies like that. But yeah, I mean, generally know some of the brand the branding behind your company
17 00:06:52.330 ⇒ 00:06:53.390 Mats Engdahl: Okay, cool?
18 00:06:54.053 ⇒ 00:06:58.190 Mats Engdahl: So I assume you’re familiar with barstool sports. Right?
19 00:06:58.190 ⇒ 00:06:58.950 Robert Tseng: Yes.
20 00:06:58.950 ⇒ 00:06:59.305 Mats Engdahl: Okay.
21 00:06:59.870 ⇒ 00:07:06.879 Mats Engdahl: So our head of sales was previously a director at barstool sports.
22 00:07:07.070 ⇒ 00:07:19.780 Mats Engdahl: And the idea for what I’m going to describe to use somewhat. Comes from him a bit
23 00:07:19.980 ⇒ 00:07:20.750 Robert Tseng: Sure.
24 00:07:20.930 ⇒ 00:07:22.030 Mats Engdahl: So
25 00:07:22.210 ⇒ 00:07:37.579 Mats Engdahl: we’re obviously a a still in a bit a bit more of a nascent stage than that company. But I would say in terms of what we sell our clientele like how
26 00:07:37.800 ⇒ 00:07:44.140 Mats Engdahl: sales operations work here. The 2 are broadly similar
27 00:07:44.700 ⇒ 00:07:45.380 Robert Tseng: Okay.
28 00:07:45.790 ⇒ 00:07:52.540 Mats Engdahl: And well, I I’m not sure what barstool
29 00:07:53.834 ⇒ 00:07:59.640 Mats Engdahl: used in the past when my colleague was there who unfortunately couldn’t join today.
30 00:08:02.090 ⇒ 00:08:11.090 Mats Engdahl: He described that the the Crm that they built was fair was almost a hundred percent. Custom made
31 00:08:11.710 ⇒ 00:08:13.219 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that makes sense to me.
32 00:08:13.350 ⇒ 00:08:19.049 Mats Engdahl: And it was built in order to draw in
33 00:08:20.810 ⇒ 00:08:31.369 Mats Engdahl: individual like media unit performance. Right? So if they sold through a campaign that was 20 Instagram posts like you could
34 00:08:32.169 ⇒ 00:08:43.260 Mats Engdahl: as a salesperson you could go into or Sales Ops person. You could go into this and see, like the individual performance of each post over, you know, a certain amount of time, usually.
35 00:08:44.450 ⇒ 00:08:54.130 Mats Engdahl: for these types of media packages the 1st 30 days are the most important right. That’s when
36 00:08:54.260 ⇒ 00:09:00.519 Mats Engdahl: that’s what all the like target thresholds that appear in these agreements usually are tied to that space of time.
37 00:09:00.760 ⇒ 00:09:01.300 Robert Tseng: Yep.
38 00:09:03.350 ⇒ 00:09:04.720 Mats Engdahl: And
39 00:09:08.860 ⇒ 00:09:12.176 Mats Engdahl: you you know it. It also served
40 00:09:14.486 ⇒ 00:09:25.620 Mats Engdahl: it served as a as an augmentation for their fp and a planning tools. So you.
41 00:09:25.800 ⇒ 00:09:29.620 Mats Engdahl: while sales teams were tracking
42 00:09:30.463 ⇒ 00:09:40.759 Mats Engdahl: close campaign performance, they were also able to update their own individual pipelines. In to
43 00:09:41.340 ⇒ 00:09:49.380 Mats Engdahl: this program, and the my equivalent at that company was able to like pull that in and
44 00:09:49.520 ⇒ 00:09:53.800 Mats Engdahl: stress test against their models. Sort of like help, like
45 00:09:53.940 ⇒ 00:09:58.210 Mats Engdahl: re forecast budgets for the year, etc, etc.
46 00:09:58.780 ⇒ 00:09:59.350 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
47 00:09:59.720 ⇒ 00:10:00.700 Mats Engdahl: So
48 00:10:03.860 ⇒ 00:10:11.570 Mats Engdahl: that type of tool, as far as I’m aware, is not like really
49 00:10:11.850 ⇒ 00:10:15.550 Mats Engdahl: available as an off the shelf product right now.
50 00:10:17.247 ⇒ 00:10:30.502 Mats Engdahl: There are individual tools that can help you track the performance of like a Youtube video, or basically like hook in with like Google analytics and visualize that data
51 00:10:31.130 ⇒ 00:10:36.320 Mats Engdahl: on a different you know, a different platform, or like a
52 00:10:36.550 ⇒ 00:10:44.969 Mats Engdahl: close platform or whatever. So that if you have multiple channels. You don’t have to click into multiple like Google analytics pages.
53 00:10:45.340 ⇒ 00:10:52.130 Mats Engdahl: Blah blah bye, as I’ve talked to a few people, whether it’s
54 00:10:52.550 ⇒ 00:10:57.499 Mats Engdahl: Sas salespeople trying to sell us a product or
55 00:10:58.650 ⇒ 00:11:04.160 Mats Engdahl: You know other people that work in our industry. It. It’s kind of become clear that
56 00:11:05.360 ⇒ 00:11:12.329 Mats Engdahl: we need the for, or at least it seems to me that, like the 1st step in building, like
57 00:11:12.470 ⇒ 00:11:23.580 Mats Engdahl: a useful Crm tool to accomplish our goals is to engage someone to help us build, and
58 00:11:24.020 ⇒ 00:11:27.350 Mats Engdahl: a cloud database that can
59 00:11:28.400 ⇒ 00:11:38.640 Mats Engdahl: automate some of the work that a few people here are doing manually kind of like tracking like these things performance after we sell them through
60 00:11:39.300 ⇒ 00:11:39.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
61 00:11:40.380 ⇒ 00:11:43.330 Mats Engdahl: So when I spoke to
62 00:11:44.930 ⇒ 00:11:45.920 Mats Engdahl: Oh, my gosh!
63 00:11:46.040 ⇒ 00:11:46.660 Mats Engdahl: I’m so sorry
64 00:11:46.660 ⇒ 00:11:47.519 Robert Tseng: And from real
65 00:11:47.520 ⇒ 00:12:00.099 Mats Engdahl: When I spoke to Sid, who was kind of talking about his data visualization project, it was very much predicated on working, built off of something like this. And he you were his referral to
66 00:12:00.695 ⇒ 00:12:04.380 Mats Engdahl: potentially do that or help us. How that would work.
67 00:12:04.960 ⇒ 00:12:10.300 Mats Engdahl: That’s kind of like the spiel. And like why I wanted to speak to you.
68 00:12:10.460 ⇒ 00:12:10.950 Mats Engdahl: I hope
69 00:12:10.950 ⇒ 00:12:11.960 Robert Tseng: Not for sure.
70 00:12:12.370 ⇒ 00:12:16.539 Mats Engdahl: I hope that isn’t like too surprising, or like too like off base
71 00:12:16.760 ⇒ 00:12:25.209 Robert Tseng: No, no, I mean I don’t think that was a Luddite explanation at all. I thought that was a pretty well put, I think. I try to like meet you where you’re at in my own language.
72 00:12:26.810 ⇒ 00:12:35.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah. I mean, I think what you’re running into specifically is an attribution kind of problem. With a particular like
73 00:12:37.570 ⇒ 00:12:51.409 Robert Tseng: set of kind of attribution requirements that, like an out of box tool, would not support. Right? You have these like, really custom. And yeah, like media partnerships with these attribution windows that.
74 00:12:51.580 ⇒ 00:12:57.940 Robert Tseng: you know, like a Google, analytics will not catch in their like auto tracking kind of capabilities whatever.
75 00:12:57.980 ⇒ 00:13:22.729 Robert Tseng: And so yes, you’re right, I think, out of the box tools really support, like paid campaign performance. So Google, Bing, Tiktok, Youtube, like Facebook, whatever all those ads like there are tools that you can just plug and play and see kind of paid paid. Spend performance pretty easily. But when you start kind of branching out into other things like, you know, we work with companies that do direct mailers and needing to do attribution for that.
76 00:13:22.730 ⇒ 00:13:39.945 Robert Tseng: So it’s literally just like a completely offline. A way of tracking attribution to yeah. Partnerships is typically pretty pretty custom. Then that kind of creates more of a need to like build something custom to bring to house all of your data in a single source.
77 00:13:40.320 ⇒ 00:13:48.090 Robert Tseng: and then you have the flexibility to build reporting on top of that so definitely would agree with your assessment there.
78 00:13:48.980 ⇒ 00:14:02.129 Robert Tseng: I mean, it sounds like, I mean, there’s usually an order of priority to things like, I don’t think my jump, I would usually jump to like, yeah, we’re gonna sell you on building a data warehouse and all that like that’s that’s not really kind of what I’m here for, I think
79 00:14:02.150 ⇒ 00:14:20.410 Robert Tseng: better wanting to understand. Okay, you told me about this one specific channel that you have a hard time. Kind of doing attribution. For what else? What else are you looking at? And just like kind of what? What else is in in your scope that maybe we can kind of talk through like, what’s the progression that we can actually outline out to get to where you want to be?
80 00:14:20.800 ⇒ 00:14:21.560 Mats Engdahl: Sure.
81 00:14:23.150 ⇒ 00:14:25.440 Mats Engdahl: I guess I’ll kind of start with.
82 00:14:29.650 ⇒ 00:14:35.029 Mats Engdahl: Well, I’ll start by describing like what a typical ad unit looks like here
83 00:14:35.030 ⇒ 00:14:35.630 Robert Tseng: Yep.
84 00:14:36.130 ⇒ 00:14:37.450 Mats Engdahl: So
85 00:14:40.890 ⇒ 00:14:47.912 Mats Engdahl: we it’s very rare for us to sell
86 00:14:49.080 ⇒ 00:15:05.360 Mats Engdahl: like a like a straightforward package where the ad unit is is is on one platform that a consumer can engage with. Right. I would say the only example where that normally happens is when we sell
87 00:15:05.500 ⇒ 00:15:08.489 Mats Engdahl: ad reads for podcasts, right
88 00:15:08.790 ⇒ 00:15:09.390 Robert Tseng: Okay.
89 00:15:09.590 ⇒ 00:15:11.100 Mats Engdahl: And those
90 00:15:11.770 ⇒ 00:15:20.760 Mats Engdahl: okay. You know, those range from, like our lowest. Like most nascent, podcast at 250, a pop to
91 00:15:20.900 ⇒ 00:15:27.240 Mats Engdahl: 3,500 a pop for like a 60 second Ad. Read on one episode
92 00:15:27.240 ⇒ 00:15:27.860 Robert Tseng: Yep.
93 00:15:27.860 ⇒ 00:15:31.790 Mats Engdahl: Most of what we sell is
94 00:15:32.000 ⇒ 00:15:40.179 Mats Engdahl: if we if we sell something like, let’s say we sell a 5,000 gross
95 00:15:41.946 ⇒ 00:15:45.030 Mats Engdahl: value package to Jose Cuervo.
96 00:15:46.870 ⇒ 00:15:54.899 Mats Engdahl: That will inevitably loop in
97 00:15:55.080 ⇒ 00:16:01.800 Mats Engdahl: 6 or 7 of like our internal media brands, and it will be
98 00:16:06.420 ⇒ 00:16:14.900 Mats Engdahl: diced up across Meta tick, tock, Youtube and most likely
99 00:16:15.300 ⇒ 00:16:20.670 Mats Engdahl: spotify. If A podcast is included in that total value
100 00:16:21.060 ⇒ 00:16:21.650 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
101 00:16:22.020 ⇒ 00:16:25.210 Mats Engdahl: So when I’m imagining
102 00:16:25.470 ⇒ 00:16:34.960 Mats Engdahl: kind of as like the 1st thing that some sort of all in solution would accomplish would be
103 00:16:37.490 ⇒ 00:16:44.400 Mats Engdahl: being able to assess the the
104 00:16:45.320 ⇒ 00:16:49.660 Mats Engdahl: performance of like an entire campaign on.
105 00:16:50.550 ⇒ 00:16:56.139 Mats Engdahl: you know, one one ux right or ui, I should say
106 00:16:56.450 ⇒ 00:16:57.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
107 00:16:57.090 ⇒ 00:17:03.630 Mats Engdahl: So like. What would be amazing is most ad agencies start
108 00:17:04.300 ⇒ 00:17:14.070 Mats Engdahl: planning their media buys for the next year around September of the year before. So
109 00:17:14.760 ⇒ 00:17:27.309 Mats Engdahl: Omd or excuse me, Havas, which is the media agency that represents Jose Cuervo. If they want to renew our package or start thinking about renewing our package.
110 00:17:27.839 ⇒ 00:17:34.229 Mats Engdahl: at least it for q. 1 or Q. 2. That conversation will probably start in September.
111 00:17:34.590 ⇒ 00:17:40.810 Mats Engdahl: and let’s say the campaign the current campaign is running May through July.
112 00:17:41.610 ⇒ 00:17:42.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
113 00:17:43.170 ⇒ 00:17:48.260 Mats Engdahl: What would be amazing is if we could create something where
114 00:17:49.380 ⇒ 00:17:56.380 Mats Engdahl: you have like a campaign id and say, like Friday beers, X, Jose Cuervo, 2025
115 00:17:57.560 ⇒ 00:18:03.220 Mats Engdahl: You open that up in this theoretic user interface.
116 00:18:03.450 ⇒ 00:18:07.330 Mats Engdahl: And you see the individual components and
117 00:18:07.640 ⇒ 00:18:20.409 Mats Engdahl: how they’re performing against like the projected or promised impressions, or whatever unit of measurement that our client is judging the deal by
118 00:18:22.380 ⇒ 00:18:33.229 Mats Engdahl: And seeing if okay, this brand is over performing, you know, within the scope are this internal brand.
119 00:18:33.400 ⇒ 00:18:41.070 Mats Engdahl: so, like Friday beers, the Friday beers. Instagram Page is over. Delivering on promised impressions
120 00:18:41.830 ⇒ 00:18:45.309 Mats Engdahl: could be the move which is another one of our is underperforming
121 00:18:46.570 ⇒ 00:18:48.359 Mats Engdahl: You know, and that would help like
122 00:18:49.100 ⇒ 00:18:51.730 Mats Engdahl: in order to get to that place right now.
123 00:18:52.120 ⇒ 00:18:55.350 Mats Engdahl: For us, it’s almost embarrassing to say
124 00:18:55.880 ⇒ 00:19:05.270 Mats Engdahl: there’s a 27, or a 26 year old, sitting in a room who opens up that Instagram
125 00:19:05.785 ⇒ 00:19:14.309 Mats Engdahl: page, finds the post and manually updates it in the project off the shelf project tracking software that we currently use
126 00:19:15.470 ⇒ 00:19:24.859 Mats Engdahl: that creates inefficiency because it takes time creates more.
127 00:19:27.310 ⇒ 00:19:28.819 Robert Tseng: Risk for human Error. Yeah.
128 00:19:28.820 ⇒ 00:19:31.100 Mats Engdahl: Exactly. You took the words right out of my
129 00:19:32.720 ⇒ 00:19:33.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
130 00:19:34.100 ⇒ 00:19:36.689 Mats Engdahl: I hope? That was answering the question
131 00:19:36.850 ⇒ 00:19:41.289 Mats Engdahl: you were asking. It might have diverged a little bit, but
132 00:19:41.290 ⇒ 00:19:52.609 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I think that’s a good example to use. So I mean, definitely feels like we, the way that we use like kind of terminology might be a little bit kind of off. So it’s fine if we’re just kind of trying to come to a common understanding.
133 00:19:53.287 ⇒ 00:20:16.160 Robert Tseng: But if I can just repeat back what I heard to you. So you use this example of the Jose Cuervo kind of partnership to you. That’s a single ux. But it could be it could be, or a single. Let’s just call it a single campaign. But then you can distribute it across multiple channels. And you want all of those channels to link back and obviously give credit to this like central campaign right?
134 00:20:17.100 ⇒ 00:20:25.590 Robert Tseng: And being being able to track that campaign performance across multiple channels is quite a manual process right now.
135 00:20:26.116 ⇒ 00:20:42.150 Robert Tseng: You gave the example of the Instagram Channel as being one where, you have somebody who has to go in and literally manual update the numbers. And I’m sure maybe you have people doing that across all the other touch points. Maybe it’s a podcast or maybe whatever other mediums or channels that you’re using.
136 00:20:42.570 ⇒ 00:20:44.909 Robert Tseng: Is that a good way to summarize what you said
137 00:20:45.120 ⇒ 00:20:49.580 Mats Engdahl: Yeah, I think that’s a perfect way to summarize it, I think. Like
138 00:20:50.720 ⇒ 00:20:56.130 Mats Engdahl: to answer something. I think you were another thing that you were asking like if
139 00:20:57.620 ⇒ 00:21:05.090 Mats Engdahl: if I were thinking about like for me, as the head of finance, like 3
140 00:21:05.300 ⇒ 00:21:11.600 Mats Engdahl: 3 important recurring decisions this would help make are
141 00:21:11.600 ⇒ 00:21:12.180 Robert Tseng: Yep.
142 00:21:12.530 ⇒ 00:21:16.769 Mats Engdahl: Do we continue? You know, if a let’s say.
143 00:21:17.190 ⇒ 00:21:24.790 Mats Engdahl: another view within this ui is like you go to, I mentioned could be the move as an example, right?
144 00:21:24.790 ⇒ 00:21:25.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
145 00:21:25.910 ⇒ 00:21:33.969 Mats Engdahl: I go into could be the move, and I see all of the campaigns that could be. The move has been a part of for the last whatever.
146 00:21:34.270 ⇒ 00:21:42.729 Mats Engdahl: 6 months, you know, I’m doing like a second half of the year reconcile or second half of the year deal, and it’s consistently over underperformed
147 00:21:42.950 ⇒ 00:21:44.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah, available
148 00:21:44.250 ⇒ 00:21:48.768 Mats Engdahl: You know I have the revenue amount or the accrued revenue amount, because I know.
149 00:21:49.250 ⇒ 00:21:54.087 Mats Engdahl: See what’s been delivered. Obviously I have the salary that I pay that
150 00:21:54.780 ⇒ 00:21:59.620 Mats Engdahl: creator. All these things I determine that it’s losing money.
151 00:22:00.068 ⇒ 00:22:06.489 Mats Engdahl: Now, if it’s in a vacuum, if something is losing money, and it’s early on. It’s not necessarily like
152 00:22:07.200 ⇒ 00:22:19.749 Mats Engdahl: reason to end that partnership right then and there. If something is losing money and underperforming kind of its sole like economic purpose.
153 00:22:20.140 ⇒ 00:22:20.780 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
154 00:22:20.780 ⇒ 00:22:27.210 Mats Engdahl: I can make a decision about whether that relationship should live on beyond that point
155 00:22:27.640 ⇒ 00:22:28.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
156 00:22:28.570 ⇒ 00:22:35.753 Mats Engdahl: The second thing, I think that something like this would help help me.
157 00:22:37.050 ⇒ 00:22:41.596 Mats Engdahl: And certainly our head of sales do more quickly is
158 00:22:42.700 ⇒ 00:22:46.959 Mats Engdahl: price adjustments for individual sales units.
159 00:22:47.320 ⇒ 00:22:48.969 Mats Engdahl: I think that’s something that’s
160 00:22:50.270 ⇒ 00:22:59.490 Mats Engdahl: obviously doable right now. But it’s very like arduous process, because so many of our processes right now are so manual
161 00:23:00.060 ⇒ 00:23:00.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
162 00:23:00.980 ⇒ 00:23:07.169 Mats Engdahl: And then the 3rd thing kind of like, which is, you know, almost the inverse of the 1st thing is.
163 00:23:07.960 ⇒ 00:23:24.700 Mats Engdahl: help me rationalize. If someone deserve. You know how deserving somebody is of like a compensation, adjustment, or a bounty, because of their over performance in any particular quarter or part of a year, or whole year.
164 00:23:25.470 ⇒ 00:23:26.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
165 00:23:26.492 ⇒ 00:23:35.259 Mats Engdahl: I don’t, you know. I I should have done this before, I should, you know. Like, when I’m building like an investor deck, right or a model. I usually like
166 00:23:35.790 ⇒ 00:23:40.200 Mats Engdahl: handwrite. You know what each slide is going to look like because it helps
167 00:23:40.740 ⇒ 00:23:49.960 Mats Engdahl: work faster and I kind of regret, not doing that for this, because this would have been a perfect time to engage in that exercise. I apologize
168 00:23:50.200 ⇒ 00:23:56.979 Robert Tseng: No worries. Yeah, no, I’m I’m I’m still tracking. I think so. Yeah, I mean, I think
169 00:23:57.400 ⇒ 00:24:01.778 Robert Tseng: sure. Let me kind of step out of like the weeds here a bit. And
170 00:24:02.230 ⇒ 00:24:21.169 Robert Tseng: yeah. So I think even what you’re describing right now it, based on what you describe. Yes, I can. I can see. Maybe I have an understanding of of the process now. I don’t want to jump necessarily to the solution. Yet I think, what what needs to happen is I I think this is may just be like
171 00:24:21.800 ⇒ 00:24:51.600 Robert Tseng: before any tool or kind of thing is implemented. Just making sure that your tracking process is really clean is, I think, is the number one priority. And so typically when we start with a client who’s kind of in this like complex, like attribution problem usually like kind of keywords. I listen for, oh, we don’t know how to attribute to podcasts or partners. And we’re offline offline channels like, those are kind of like the the wheels that get me turning typically of like, okay, I I think I understand kind of the
172 00:24:51.600 ⇒ 00:24:55.369 Robert Tseng: the the challenge that the client is is- is facing.
173 00:24:55.380 ⇒ 00:25:10.288 Robert Tseng: And you know some. A lot of this can be solved with just like clean, clean tracking. So I’ll I’ll just flash on my screen and I’ll show you a few things that we typically set up within like the first.st It’s kind of like part of the discovery phase. I would say, we do with clients.
174 00:25:10.870 ⇒ 00:25:17.645 Robert Tseng: I alright apologies if you’re gonna see your thing.
175 00:25:19.020 ⇒ 00:25:44.839 Robert Tseng: yeah. So like this is one example, where, yeah, like, we start with something like that where we set up just like guidelines, naming conventions, testing guidelines across all the channels that you’re looking at, and we let you like, even we go to the basics of Like, how do you name your campaigns in a way where, like things are not going to get dropped right? So it even just, you know, this is more from the paid media side. We laid some of this out gave some like kind of
176 00:25:44.880 ⇒ 00:25:52.080 Robert Tseng: classic ways of metrics, of how you track certain types of campaigns, Utm structures, name conventions. So
177 00:25:52.150 ⇒ 00:25:59.630 Robert Tseng: yeah, there’s there’s a set of these that we would tailor to any channel that you have. Because this as any data team that you end up working with.
178 00:26:00.062 ⇒ 00:26:05.069 Robert Tseng: They will want, you know. At least you’ll you’ll need this right, because the whole like.
179 00:26:06.260 ⇒ 00:26:10.590 Robert Tseng: I think, like for this particular client, for example, they got
180 00:26:10.800 ⇒ 00:26:18.609 Robert Tseng: they got confused. And like, they were inconsistent with the way they were naming campaigns versus mediums. And so
181 00:26:19.000 ⇒ 00:26:44.790 Robert Tseng: yeah, they have like this media network that they publish on that wasn’t getting credit. And that was like a huge like blow up in their face. And so, yeah, like, we solve that problem just by helping them rename the campaigns. And so this is part of like, like a media or like a campaign audit that I would probably do with your team just to like, make sure that everything that you’re tracking makes sense and that like there aren’t any obvious like things that are falling through the cracks.
182 00:26:44.890 ⇒ 00:26:51.589 Robert Tseng: Because if you are just trying to trace back to a single partner like, I think this is definitely like table stakes that you would need to have.
183 00:26:52.300 ⇒ 00:27:10.339 Robert Tseng: Then we would kind of like plot out like. So this is like another example for a client where? Yeah, which? Which? You know which sources do we want to actually kind of take in and do like the full modeling process for like dumping it into a data warehouse and like doing transformation on it.
184 00:27:10.852 ⇒ 00:27:15.219 Robert Tseng: I mean, this is like just one Ecom client. They have, like, you know, 15 to 20 plus
185 00:27:15.530 ⇒ 00:27:18.305 Robert Tseng: sources, not everything we’ve modeled.
186 00:27:19.130 ⇒ 00:27:32.799 Robert Tseng: you know, some stuff is pretty out of the box. And we didn’t touch it. So like Google, Meta, Youtube, bing, like stuff like that, we didn’t touch, but, like Tiktok Shop, is still a relatively new source, and that’s like a chip that’s like a new marketplace that they’ve been pretty active on.
187 00:27:33.380 ⇒ 00:27:45.229 Robert Tseng: and that like, there isn’t anything that’s good out there. And it made sense to custom build that. So we kind of do like a prioritization kind of exercise. So like, let you know, okay, for this
188 00:27:45.410 ⇒ 00:27:56.829 Robert Tseng: bucket into your data, your data sources into different groups. Alright, these sources. We can just use an out of the box tool for it. Like, you know, you can think of data connectors as like commodity at this point.
189 00:27:57.349 ⇒ 00:28:17.819 Robert Tseng: We have no loyalty to any connector. We just go off Price, and we just pull it into the data warehouse. But then there may be other sources that are really important to you that we really need that custom modeling for. And so then we would. You know, we would roadmap out like, what would it look like to actually bring those in like kind of the the ground up the bottoms up, approach
190 00:28:18.432 ⇒ 00:28:25.449 Robert Tseng: and so that would be kind of like a roadmap that we would build out with you for, and would give some estimations on how long that would take
191 00:28:26.098 ⇒ 00:28:35.329 Robert Tseng: so that’s kind of like how I would think about that problem. So just to kind of summarize one, it’s like a just like a naming conventions and tagging kind of like
192 00:28:36.230 ⇒ 00:28:47.389 Robert Tseng: audit. First, st just to make sure that that’s all kind of in a good place. And then we could talk about the tech and like what needs to happen or get the prioritize the right pieces to bring in for you.
193 00:28:47.490 ⇒ 00:29:09.410 Robert Tseng: And at that point that’s when you would engage a tool like real where real, you know, could pretty much just read directly off of your data warehouse. And they are, you know, we love working with them and implementing them because they’re super fast at reporting Cfo or finance background. People love real because it’s basically like a super powered pivot table that reads on top of your data warehouse
194 00:29:09.410 ⇒ 00:29:09.730 Mats Engdahl: Right.
195 00:29:09.730 ⇒ 00:29:10.140 Robert Tseng: So.
196 00:29:10.140 ⇒ 00:29:13.309 Mats Engdahl: Exactly. That was exactly my reaction when I saw it. Demo
197 00:29:14.450 ⇒ 00:29:21.900 Robert Tseng: So. Yeah, that’s kind of what I would say is like the general like, approach to where I feel like you’re at.
198 00:29:22.890 ⇒ 00:29:44.540 Robert Tseng: I would say, like the audit diagramming all that that we typically do that within 2 weeks with the client. And yeah. Then, whether you choose to go with us. Implement or not like that’s not really like, you know. We can. We can talk then, but making sure that you understand how to approach. The problem is probably the, I think, the the biggest priority
199 00:29:48.950 ⇒ 00:29:55.619 Mats Engdahl: So the other thing I will say, yeah, I think I’m I’m so preoccupied by like one.
200 00:29:59.180 ⇒ 00:30:05.860 Mats Engdahl: you know, one issue at the company. But, as you said at the beginning of the call, yeah.
201 00:30:06.120 ⇒ 00:30:14.749 Mats Engdahl: When you think about how we make money, we really make money in 3 main ways right? The way I described, which is sponsorship sales
202 00:30:14.750 ⇒ 00:30:15.100 Robert Tseng: Yep.
203 00:30:16.280 ⇒ 00:30:23.619 Mats Engdahl: There is merge so like something like this could benefit merch particularly
204 00:30:23.750 ⇒ 00:30:37.340 Mats Engdahl: like one thing that is a huge blind spot right now is like, how much actual traffic do individual creators drive as far as organic, so like no means of attributing that.
205 00:30:37.450 ⇒ 00:30:39.379 Mats Engdahl: So when we pay out
206 00:30:40.440 ⇒ 00:30:51.039 Mats Engdahl: bounties right now to individual creators. It’s entirely based on the gross sales of like skews like T-shirt specific to them.
207 00:30:51.800 ⇒ 00:30:54.920 Mats Engdahl: I would love, you know, if if they
208 00:30:56.080 ⇒ 00:31:03.500 Mats Engdahl: someone came through their skit, or that was on Instagram or whatever, and then bought a bunch of just normal
209 00:31:03.830 ⇒ 00:31:12.940 Mats Engdahl: Friday. Beers merch! I would love to reward them for that like fair. I just have no means of attributing that to them.
210 00:31:13.150 ⇒ 00:31:15.920 Mats Engdahl: Yeah, that’s another, you know.
211 00:31:16.710 ⇒ 00:31:18.754 Robert Tseng: That’s actually not a hard problem to solve.
212 00:31:19.050 ⇒ 00:31:22.930 Mats Engdahl: It’s I know it’s not. It’s just I mean
213 00:31:23.620 ⇒ 00:31:26.150 Mats Engdahl: hard for a lot of it to solve. But
214 00:31:28.050 ⇒ 00:31:45.320 Mats Engdahl: I you know that like when you think about like a like just being very candid, like a swot analysis of like our company, like we don’t really have like, we do not have the best understanding of this type of stuff. Despite being a digital media company, we’re like on 3rd party
215 00:31:45.940 ⇒ 00:31:50.030 Mats Engdahl: tools and manual processes to try and like Bridge, our
216 00:31:50.840 ⇒ 00:31:53.239 Mats Engdahl: lack of skill in this regard. You know
217 00:31:53.240 ⇒ 00:31:53.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
218 00:31:55.050 ⇒ 00:32:06.060 Robert Tseng: no, I get it. I mean, yeah, you’re you probably have more tools than you even know of. And yeah, I mean, it’s just how can anybody be expected to manage all of that? Yeah. So
219 00:32:06.803 ⇒ 00:32:07.830 Mats Engdahl: And then
220 00:32:08.150 ⇒ 00:32:14.749 Mats Engdahl: the 3rd way which is a bit more of a probably a bit more of a vexing problem.
221 00:32:15.860 ⇒ 00:32:19.500 Mats Engdahl: our largest marketing client is betmgm, but
222 00:32:19.500 ⇒ 00:32:20.390 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay.
223 00:32:20.390 ⇒ 00:32:26.340 Mats Engdahl: Yeah, but we also make money through them, using
224 00:32:30.013 ⇒ 00:32:37.859 Mats Engdahl: essentially, they will pay you a bounty ranging from a hundred to $500
225 00:32:38.010 ⇒ 00:32:49.360 Mats Engdahl: for anybody that comes to their app and puts down there a 1st bet. So they’ve been on a basketball game as attributable to us
226 00:32:50.280 ⇒ 00:33:00.677 Mats Engdahl: there. They have their own like vendor, accessible platform, where you can track like your revenue accruals, and give some like very
227 00:33:03.290 ⇒ 00:33:08.825 Mats Engdahl: very like superficial marketing or analytics tools as well.
228 00:33:11.880 ⇒ 00:33:13.010 Mats Engdahl: By.
229 00:33:13.910 ⇒ 00:33:17.749 Mats Engdahl: We’re kind of at the mercy
230 00:33:18.290 ⇒ 00:33:25.420 Mats Engdahl: of 3rd party. A few 3rd party paid marketing agencies.
231 00:33:26.740 ⇒ 00:33:32.400 Mats Engdahl: and I would love a way a better way to actually like, assess their work
232 00:33:33.130 ⇒ 00:33:33.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
233 00:33:35.500 ⇒ 00:33:38.019 Mats Engdahl: So those are like the 3 things that like
234 00:33:38.670 ⇒ 00:33:47.239 Mats Engdahl: an exercise or a project like this Capex project. However, you want to describe it could certainly help us solve
235 00:33:48.130 ⇒ 00:33:51.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know we’re kind of running up on time here. So let me just kind of
236 00:33:52.080 ⇒ 00:34:09.279 Robert Tseng: share with you, like at a high level, what I think I can follow up with. So I mean, obviously, there’s like this procurement piece, like, what data tool processes do we need kind of thing. In order to dance with that question, we need to do like a deeper dive, maybe kind of check the boxes on the things that I mentioned do like a good audit of like
237 00:34:09.290 ⇒ 00:34:24.420 Robert Tseng: all the different things that you’re looking at, the you know whether or not the the tagging, the naming conventions are all good. And then we kind of like, have, like a stack, rank prioritization of like, okay, what needs? What can you actually use out of the box tools for what do you? What do you? What should you actually have? Custom for?
238 00:34:24.960 ⇒ 00:34:30.489 Robert Tseng: And that should give you a clear picture of like what the next step, and the architecture kind of design would look like
239 00:34:31.023 ⇒ 00:34:45.789 Robert Tseng: and then the second piece here is like, Yeah, you want to be able to measure performance internally or you know, if your agencies, and also like kind of like whatever teams, internally as well on the sales side, or go go to market side. Yeah, I mean, and that’s
240 00:34:45.790 ⇒ 00:35:07.390 Robert Tseng: you kind of hit 2 birds with one stone, because once you have all that data in a single place, and you’re using a tool like real. You’ll be able to see like who’s like fudging their numbers or not. On the agency side. Most of the brands we work with. They’re usually kind of experimenting with, like, 2 or 3 different paid media agencies. And like, yeah, we help kind of them assess like.
241 00:35:07.420 ⇒ 00:35:09.719 Robert Tseng: who’s really like, I’m really I don’t.
242 00:35:10.320 ⇒ 00:35:23.209 Robert Tseng: Who should you really just go with or like who’s performing the best? So that’s a that’s a pretty common problem to solve. And then the icing on the top would just be like organic organic. Kind of impact to creators obviously wanting to make it.
243 00:35:23.510 ⇒ 00:35:29.899 Robert Tseng: You know your your platform, a great experience for creators, and they for them to buy in more to it and be rewarded.
244 00:35:30.454 ⇒ 00:35:35.480 Robert Tseng: That’s really just like a brand incrementalities test that you can do a lift and a lift study on
245 00:35:35.930 ⇒ 00:35:56.449 Robert Tseng: yeah, as long as you have some time. And we have a way controlled way to pretty much measure before and after over a 2 week period like you can, you can pretty easily measure measure that. So I think those are all great projects to tackle, obviously can’t do everything at once. But those are probably the 3 things I would probably follow up with you on.
246 00:35:56.900 ⇒ 00:35:58.330 Robert Tseng: If that sounds good.
247 00:35:58.470 ⇒ 00:35:59.350 Mats Engdahl: That does
248 00:36:00.170 ⇒ 00:36:09.830 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool? Then. Yeah, I’ll I’ll shoot. I’ll shoot you over an email with some things to kind of to read over. I appreciate your time, Matt. And to hear from you soon
249 00:36:10.270 ⇒ 00:36:14.996 Mats Engdahl: Yeah, I appreciate your time. And obviously again, thank you for your flexibility.
250 00:36:15.630 ⇒ 00:36:19.529 Mats Engdahl: yeah, no. This was really stimulating. I appreciate it
251 00:36:19.870 ⇒ 00:36:21.609 Robert Tseng: Cool, alright. Talk to you soon
252 00:36:21.610 ⇒ 00:36:23.890 Robert Tseng: talk to you soon see ya