Meeting Title: Uttam Kumaran Date: 2025-03-10 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Sahana Asokan
WEBVTT
1 00:00:07.810 ⇒ 00:00:08.730 Sahana Asokan: Hey!
2 00:00:09.760 ⇒ 00:00:10.580 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
3 00:00:11.080 ⇒ 00:00:11.820 Sahana Asokan: What’s up?
4 00:00:12.200 ⇒ 00:00:13.149 Uttam Kumaran: How’s it going.
5 00:00:13.390 ⇒ 00:00:19.890 Sahana Asokan: Good. I was a little sick this weekend, so I’m still a little under the weather. But other than that, it’s been okay. How about you.
6 00:00:20.020 ⇒ 00:00:22.919 Uttam Kumaran: Good. How is the how’s the new apartment and everything.
7 00:00:23.010 ⇒ 00:00:28.799 Sahana Asokan: It’s been good. I feel like I finally feel like settled in, which has been really nice.
8 00:00:28.800 ⇒ 00:00:32.939 Uttam Kumaran: That’s pretty quick. I feel like it took me. It takes me like 2 months to be like
9 00:00:33.130 ⇒ 00:00:36.739 Uttam Kumaran: I know where stuff is in the drawers, and like stuff like that.
10 00:00:36.740 ⇒ 00:00:51.170 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I was just like, I can’t function without like not living out of boxes. So I just made number one priority. And I paid. I didn’t build a single piece of furniture. I just hired a bunch of tasks and just got it all done in a weekend.
11 00:00:52.000 ⇒ 00:00:53.099 Sahana Asokan: all right.
12 00:00:53.100 ⇒ 00:00:56.909 Uttam Kumaran: Solid move. Yeah, that’s the worst to let it linger.
13 00:00:56.910 ⇒ 00:01:09.419 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I was like, no, but yeah, it’s been good. Nothing new. I’m actually going back to Atlanta next weekend just to see my family for a couple of days. But yeah, it’s it’s just I think everything’s just been busy. So.
14 00:01:09.420 ⇒ 00:01:16.150 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Yeah, same. It’s been. I feel like it’s getting better. Probably you may not notice it outside of Eden.
15 00:01:16.260 ⇒ 00:01:23.499 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m noticing that things are starting to get a little bit lighter, with amber, and then with Steven coming on.
16 00:01:23.850 ⇒ 00:01:28.194 Uttam Kumaran: So that’ll solve a core problem with the project management stuff.
17 00:01:29.040 ⇒ 00:01:33.766 Uttam Kumaran: which I’m very, very excited for, because that’s most of our problems. Frankly,
18 00:01:34.420 ⇒ 00:01:46.620 Uttam Kumaran: so yeah, I guess I wanted to. Robert filled me in a little bit on your guys conversation, but I know we probably didn’t get a chance to chat for a while. I think from my angle would love to hear about like
19 00:01:47.180 ⇒ 00:01:52.739 Uttam Kumaran: how you think about this work overall, I mean, probably, since you join, what do you think about
20 00:01:53.152 ⇒ 00:02:00.327 Uttam Kumaran: how everything’s going, I think definitely would love to see if you have more capacity. Now, we can throw more things your way.
21 00:02:00.870 ⇒ 00:02:05.020 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah, I just want to hear overall feedback. And maybe we can start there.
22 00:02:05.240 ⇒ 00:02:08.740 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think it’s been going well so far, like.
23 00:02:09.060 ⇒ 00:02:15.540 Sahana Asokan: I mean, I’m trying to take on more responsibility on the Eden side, just like like Senior.
24 00:02:15.540 ⇒ 00:02:16.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
25 00:02:16.020 ⇒ 00:02:41.999 Sahana Asokan: Position, or what whatever. So that’s been good. I think I’ve been making a lot of progress there. I’ve just been holding Robert accountable in the sense of like. Whenever I do sync with him every week I’m like, how am I doing? How am I performing kind of like? I think I am trying to be a little bit more proactive with that. But yeah, it’s been good. I think. Obviously, areas of I think it’s improved. Since I’ve joined. I’ll say that, like I think, from like efficiency perspective and just like
26 00:02:42.370 ⇒ 00:02:44.600 Sahana Asokan: a workflow perspective, it’s definitely.
27 00:02:44.600 ⇒ 00:02:45.030 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm.
28 00:02:45.460 ⇒ 00:02:53.010 Sahana Asokan: Seems like we’re improving and like, I feel more adjusted. I think in the beginning I was just getting thrown into things, and I wasn’t really
29 00:02:53.260 ⇒ 00:03:00.129 Sahana Asokan: understanding like the dynamics. But now I do. That’s just easier for me to like
30 00:03:00.900 ⇒ 00:03:02.679 Sahana Asokan: come up with work, because I kind of.
31 00:03:02.680 ⇒ 00:03:03.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
32 00:03:03.040 ⇒ 00:03:05.630 Sahana Asokan: Know, like the expectations for everything.
33 00:03:06.030 ⇒ 00:03:19.840 Sahana Asokan: But yeah, I think again, like I, I do have bandwidth to take on more work. I think it. Just the only thing I need is planning. And I just like there are weeks like, for example, last week it wasn’t supposed to be a busy week for me. It was supposed to be.
34 00:03:19.840 ⇒ 00:03:20.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
35 00:03:20.320 ⇒ 00:03:28.500 Sahana Asokan: Me getting out my things done and owning whatever Robert told me to own, which I didn’t end up doing because of everything else going on right? So it’s like.
36 00:03:28.500 ⇒ 00:03:28.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
37 00:03:28.850 ⇒ 00:03:36.359 Sahana Asokan: When I have weeks like that, I really can’t connect more work, because with my 9 to 5 and this like.
38 00:03:36.490 ⇒ 00:03:43.540 Sahana Asokan: I’m just so so swamped like, I think half the reason I got sick last week was just because I really I really just had a really long week.
39 00:03:43.540 ⇒ 00:03:43.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
40 00:03:43.860 ⇒ 00:03:46.649 Sahana Asokan: So like, yeah, that’s just kind of where I’m coming from. So.
41 00:03:46.650 ⇒ 00:04:00.439 Uttam Kumaran: That makes sense. I think we probably have another like 50% of room to get way better, like where this is like a shit show right now, like very obvious I think we had to take 2 steps back, and like as you can tell, I totally ditched the notion I was like.
42 00:04:00.770 ⇒ 00:04:22.490 Uttam Kumaran: That’s let’s talk at the beginning of the week about like the couple of things we want to get done here and try and get those done like, regardless of process, we have made like significant investment into bringing on Pm’s and bringing on a cost who’s sort of gonna lead part of the Pm’s. And basically, I’m it’s probably gonna take another 2, 3 weeks to get to the final
43 00:04:22.600 ⇒ 00:04:24.810 Uttam Kumaran: sort of stage where things are probably, like.
44 00:04:25.790 ⇒ 00:04:37.179 Uttam Kumaran: you know, 30, 40% better. But I do think that things will get a lot easier for the engineers in terms of waking up and knowing what you’re doing. A lot, will. Ideally, I don’t. I don’t. I think my biggest concern
45 00:04:37.580 ⇒ 00:04:40.639 Uttam Kumaran: is, I don’t want things to slow in terms of output.
46 00:04:40.840 ⇒ 00:04:41.350 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
47 00:04:41.350 ⇒ 00:04:48.440 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m gonna always push, because this is naturally what happens is people rely on process. But then they almost like.
48 00:04:48.570 ⇒ 00:04:54.069 Uttam Kumaran: get withdrawn. They’re like, oh, just let the process go, and then we become sort of like
49 00:04:54.460 ⇒ 00:05:16.850 Uttam Kumaran: we rely on like. Oh, it takes 2 weeks to go from planning to backlog to assignment. That’s not gonna happen right? Like, I’m gonna continuously fight against us, being like, oh, there has to be a process. If it’s like a 1 line, change the one line change. And so I’m gonna I’ll I’ll always keep a balance of that, because that’s our competitive advantage is how fast we move
50 00:05:17.160 ⇒ 00:05:32.039 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s common for engineering teams, of course, is what you see, a big companies where they they go and rely on a ton of process, and Pm’s and bureaucracy, and then you lose sight of like getting anything out the door. Well, something would take few days will take a few weeks.
51 00:05:32.090 ⇒ 00:05:41.200 Uttam Kumaran: but it will get a lot better than it is now, so I expect that in the next few weeks, like it took us about, I mean again, as I mentioned on the call like we hired.
52 00:05:41.360 ⇒ 00:05:50.599 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve hired some great people in a timeline that was like, not, that’s like, not possible. And like, have tried to ramp like you know how hard it is to sort of get
53 00:05:50.620 ⇒ 00:06:16.479 Uttam Kumaran: people there, so we’re doing our best. I wish we could have done it sooner. We didn’t have money, so I can’t do it any sooner. So we we did it as as we could. But I feel confident that your the time you’re probably spending chasing things should go down, and that should ideally allow you to open up to taking on some of the analysts work from for for other really important as well. And I see senior folks like you. Not as like.
54 00:06:16.960 ⇒ 00:06:26.600 Uttam Kumaran: okay, this person is like just double like I see folks on your side as like triple or 5 times as effective with your time. Right? And so that’s how I think about
55 00:06:26.940 ⇒ 00:06:50.440 Uttam Kumaran: putting people in the right position. The only concern I have, and this is something I’ve shared with all the folks that are part time is it’s hard to bank our business on folks that aren’t full time here, and that’s always going to be something on my mind as I start to now, move from a place of can we accomplish the goals to redundancy, right? And so that’s the thing that I’ve talked to Price about is
56 00:06:50.540 ⇒ 00:07:04.919 Uttam Kumaran: over time I’m gonna come to you guys with a full time offer and be like we are. Go. I want to offer you a chance to come. Do this for us, but naturally, over time we are going to move away from relying on part time folks.
57 00:07:05.410 ⇒ 00:07:17.339 Uttam Kumaran: and just in general. I don’t know the timeline that isn’t like this month that is, the next 3 months. But like, naturally, that’s where the business has to go. In order to build a sense of redundancy. However.
58 00:07:18.080 ⇒ 00:07:45.249 Uttam Kumaran: my, this business was built on part time people coming in from wherever I could get friends and folks to do it. So there’s it’s nothing to say about the quality. It’s nothing to say about that. It’s just that like we are going to start to do things where I want people to build, be billed as a team and be available during the day, and sort of do that. So that isn’t coming up soon. But like this year, that is like on my mind, right? And so that’s what I talked to pies about, and I talked to everybody who’s part. Time is like.
59 00:07:45.760 ⇒ 00:07:49.330 Uttam Kumaran: I want to make a compelling offer to everyone to be like.
60 00:07:49.440 ⇒ 00:07:51.799 Uttam Kumaran: join us full time at some point.
61 00:07:52.350 ⇒ 00:07:52.730 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
62 00:07:52.730 ⇒ 00:08:03.060 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I’ll just throw that. I don’t think I’ve said that out loud, but I’ll just throw that out there. That that’s something that’s on my mind. However, we need you right now for for what you can give us. So it’s it’s still super super important to us.
63 00:08:03.510 ⇒ 00:08:22.640 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, no, I mean, I appreciate the transparency like I I mean, I totally like, understand where you’re coming from. I just think like for me full time like that. Just there’s just so many factors to consider. Like, I, yeah, contracting is like a side hustle kind of concept it always has been. I don’t even know if, like.
64 00:08:22.770 ⇒ 00:08:36.079 Sahana Asokan: like, I’ve never even considered like not working like a corporate. 9 to 5 job, because that’s like right like from a financial perspective. It’s like I just I don’t even know if, like, you would be able to give me what I’m making right now.
65 00:08:36.080 ⇒ 00:08:39.249 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know I totally agree. And like I played, I
66 00:08:39.419 ⇒ 00:08:47.130 Uttam Kumaran: I started this business because I was in your spot. So I know what making 2030 grand a month can look like, and how impactful it is.
67 00:08:47.130 ⇒ 00:08:47.510 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
68 00:08:47.510 ⇒ 00:08:52.859 Uttam Kumaran: But like that. But you also know that that is, there is challenges with balancing both and.
69 00:08:52.860 ⇒ 00:08:53.200 Sahana Asokan: One.
70 00:08:53.200 ⇒ 00:08:59.579 Uttam Kumaran: That’s just it, I think, for our current phase. We need everybody who we can use and don’t. I’m not.
71 00:08:59.920 ⇒ 00:09:27.609 Uttam Kumaran: I won’t discriminate against what what people are doing. I just need the output. But over time, especially as we go to think about the business more strategically like, it’s gonna matter to have people full time. However, you’re right like, can I afford to spend 2030 grand? It’s gonna be a lot. But like we are going to make a compelling offer, and that’s what I can from that’s that’s what I can try to do. And there’s there’s intangible. But also, like I, the thing is like I was totally in your spot, so
72 00:09:27.870 ⇒ 00:09:34.710 Uttam Kumaran: I can only make the offer when I have the opportunity. But, like also, I’m like, if you can still go. Make 20 K. Go do that like
73 00:09:34.930 ⇒ 00:09:49.440 Uttam Kumaran: I will try to. I’ll try to hook you up somewhere else. Like to joint. Do that. I have no problems about that. I would love for you to come work with us. I would love to find a way to get you more more money here than you would ever make and like, give you the best, and I’ll try my best. But, like that’s
74 00:09:49.790 ⇒ 00:09:53.400 Uttam Kumaran: you know, that’s a that’s what I can do. So.
75 00:09:53.610 ⇒ 00:09:55.682 Sahana Asokan: I mean, yeah, I mean, let’s see what happens. Right?
76 00:09:56.287 ⇒ 00:10:08.140 Sahana Asokan: But I agree, I think, like we are. I’m trying to like. That’s why, I was kind of annoyed at Robert honestly last week, too, because I was like, I know, you want to optimize for output right like. That’s why you wanted me to own.
77 00:10:08.290 ⇒ 00:10:08.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
78 00:10:08.640 ⇒ 00:10:12.899 Sahana Asokan: Like farm Ops, whatever. And I’m that that is going really well, like that.
79 00:10:12.900 ⇒ 00:10:13.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
80 00:10:13.870 ⇒ 00:10:28.189 Sahana Asokan: Like next week. So it it would have been done by this week. Right didn’t happen. But my frustrations and I I know I voiced it a little in the channel. And I messaged you guys, but it’s kind of like if you’re gonna spend X amount of money in some.
81 00:10:28.190 ⇒ 00:10:28.740 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
82 00:10:28.740 ⇒ 00:10:30.519 Sahana Asokan: Make my life harder.
83 00:10:30.520 ⇒ 00:10:30.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
84 00:10:30.910 ⇒ 00:10:39.420 Sahana Asokan: I am going to be really frustrated, because that’s exactly what happened last week. It’s like it took away from my personal progression with like
85 00:10:39.530 ⇒ 00:10:48.869 Sahana Asokan: getting this leadership or like senior level recognition. And it also just made everyone’s life so like, so messy, for no reason.
86 00:10:49.060 ⇒ 00:10:49.410 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
87 00:10:49.663 ⇒ 00:11:06.909 Sahana Asokan: So like, I just don’t want that happening again, like I don’t. I don’t know if I’m allowed to be part of these conversations. When you guys are deciding like, what kind of analysts do you want on the team? But it’s like, if I’m expected to be working with people, I kind of do. I do have pride over the work I deliver like I don’t wanna
88 00:11:07.140 ⇒ 00:11:10.779 Sahana Asokan: send dashboards like that.
89 00:11:10.780 ⇒ 00:11:11.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
90 00:11:12.040 ⇒ 00:11:16.060 Sahana Asokan: And it’s not a pride or ego thing. It’s just like this is not the kind of like.
91 00:11:16.620 ⇒ 00:11:24.018 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m with you. It’s it’s actually purely like this is what people are paying hard earned money to us to do.
92 00:11:24.520 ⇒ 00:11:28.740 Uttam Kumaran: on that point. Yeah, I mean one. I am open to the feedback.
93 00:11:28.920 ⇒ 00:11:33.922 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t mind if the messages get sent anywhere as long as it gets back to me, and we can make a decision.
94 00:11:34.340 ⇒ 00:11:47.910 Uttam Kumaran: This this client has been like fucked for us. This is the worst situation we’ve ever seen in terms of trying to enable work for client like not only how it 1st got to our plate, and then.
95 00:11:48.150 ⇒ 00:11:51.339 Uttam Kumaran: like us, not having the talent ready to assign to it.
96 00:11:51.750 ⇒ 00:11:57.810 Uttam Kumaran: They kind of suck as people like. I’m not gonna lie. They’re not really. They’re not really friendly, great people.
97 00:11:58.276 ⇒ 00:12:06.289 Uttam Kumaran: That doesn’t mean we still can’t deliver what they need. But like that’s also there. And so we’re trying like, the bow thing was like a complete
98 00:12:06.820 ⇒ 00:12:36.530 Uttam Kumaran: like issue, complete issue. I didn’t have like. I didn’t have other anyone else to plug in, so we went with it. But of course it turned out to be more of a detriment than anything. Money is one thing for sure, but like it, it’s actually hurt just him being on anything so so totally pull the ejector seat on that. And that’s that’s out of it. We are trying to bring on one more person at at your level that can supplement with Eden, but also across the board right, because even pious this time he has no time.
99 00:12:36.950 ⇒ 00:12:37.580 Sahana Asokan: And.
100 00:12:37.580 ⇒ 00:12:45.275 Uttam Kumaran: And and this is where a lot of my nervousness for contractors came actually from him, dropping the ball on like almost everything
101 00:12:45.630 ⇒ 00:12:48.050 Uttam Kumaran: that’s different. And I’ll tell you that’s different.
102 00:12:48.050 ⇒ 00:12:49.140 Uttam Kumaran: That’s totally different. Yeah.
103 00:12:49.160 ⇒ 00:13:00.229 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, yeah, I’ll tell you why. And I feel like I can tell that there is hesitation over part time. It’s like because of that. And I right like I think the difference between me and him is like, I’m part time.
104 00:13:00.420 ⇒ 00:13:07.880 Sahana Asokan: and I do it because I know I can come at 20 HA week, 25 HA week like that’s my like. I’m doing this for myself.
105 00:13:07.880 ⇒ 00:13:08.230 Sahana Asokan: Yes.
106 00:13:08.230 ⇒ 00:13:19.120 Sahana Asokan: finances, too, I think for him. It’s kind of like he’s taking on more at work. I’m not like, I’m not in a place where, like I want to like for me, it’s like, how can I balance both
107 00:13:19.710 ⇒ 00:13:24.279 Sahana Asokan: situations, and like also just like, have a like decent work. Life balance right.
108 00:13:24.280 ⇒ 00:13:24.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
109 00:13:24.730 ⇒ 00:13:35.570 Sahana Asokan: No, it’s like that is my priority. And that’s why it’s like every week like bandwidth is never an issue for me, because that’s what I’m creating for myself. I think for him. It’s like he wants to grow at his like 9 to 5.
110 00:13:35.570 ⇒ 00:13:36.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, he wants both.
111 00:13:36.870 ⇒ 00:13:41.819 Sahana Asokan: And he wants like more office here, and it’s like that’s not that, can’t. You can’t get both.
112 00:13:42.020 ⇒ 00:13:43.200 Uttam Kumaran: I agree?
113 00:13:44.030 ⇒ 00:14:00.859 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s just a shame because I said that. And it happened. And I said it again. And it happened again. And so that’s left that that definitely has left like a taste of my mouth. There, I’m like, Oh, shit! Look! We almost lost Javi as a client because of that problem. But I am not like I again.
114 00:14:00.990 ⇒ 00:14:24.999 Uttam Kumaran: This is why I’m trying to be transparent. Is that like, I’m not like a random corporate dude that doesn’t understand the game of like trying to balance these 2. I actually, I’m totally fine with the game, and I play. I just play for my team, and so for my team, we can’t. I don’t have other folks. And so I and I and you’re amazing to work with. Both of you guys are amazing to work with. And so I want to invest. But seeing that as a risk factor, I have to mitigate, and it’s not even
115 00:14:25.060 ⇒ 00:14:53.506 Uttam Kumaran: for like, oh, we just wanna bias towards full time. It’s like, if if I go for financing, people will look at all of our employees and like where people are coming from, a lot of it is a factor. And so but again, that’s not short term on my mind. Only thing short term on my mind is that we move every client to like crushing it. I’m willing to pay the premium, or I’m willing to take on the added risk to do that. So I similar to me. I can’t have cake and eat it, too, right? And I’ve and I know that
116 00:14:54.030 ⇒ 00:15:01.130 Uttam Kumaran: But like that’s also where we are, and that you’re totally right. I wanna we’re gonna try to bring on one more person as a senior analyst is like our next
117 00:15:01.330 ⇒ 00:15:09.300 Uttam Kumaran: focus higher, because, as you could see, I filled out the Ae class and that’s per. I want you to be involved in sort of recruiting that person, and also
118 00:15:09.610 ⇒ 00:15:13.050 Uttam Kumaran: giving them like whatever whatever they need to succeed.
119 00:15:13.160 ⇒ 00:15:19.400 Uttam Kumaran: This that’s going to be the class of of analysts. Right? So I don’t. I see that as the next team. We’re going to focus on
120 00:15:19.880 ⇒ 00:15:29.209 Sahana Asokan: I honestly think right like just looking at this like even taking a step back on Eden. Like they’re not. It’s not doing that bad. It’s doing bad because of like
121 00:15:29.620 ⇒ 00:15:32.249 Sahana Asokan: operational issues on right.
122 00:15:32.250 ⇒ 00:15:32.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
123 00:15:32.650 ⇒ 00:15:37.299 Sahana Asokan: Like even this executive like dashboard last week, like all 3 of those dashboards.
124 00:15:37.300 ⇒ 00:15:37.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
125 00:15:37.890 ⇒ 00:15:42.820 Sahana Asokan: Let’s just say I was owning it, and I was working on it. They would have been all shipped out by last week, too.
126 00:15:43.350 ⇒ 00:15:52.160 Sahana Asokan: We ended up shipping out right, and I think it’s like we we commit appropriately don’t have the
127 00:15:52.480 ⇒ 00:15:56.510 Sahana Asokan: like talent, the right talent to get it all done.
128 00:15:56.700 ⇒ 00:16:00.139 Sahana Asokan: and then it’s kind of like it removes efficiency from the other workflow.
129 00:16:00.140 ⇒ 00:16:00.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
130 00:16:00.530 ⇒ 00:16:09.939 Sahana Asokan: Right now, there’s like 3 different workflows. So that’s what’s happening. Right? So it’s like, I don’t know even if it means like reducing scope for what you guys are promising them like.
131 00:16:09.940 ⇒ 00:16:11.819 Uttam Kumaran: Agree. That’s what I said.
132 00:16:12.350 ⇒ 00:16:28.400 Uttam Kumaran: I I would. I said I was okay with that, because I don’t mind. If we’re not, we’re not able to do today, we’re not able to do it doesn’t mean like the company fails. I mean, like, anything happens. We just are. I’m okay. With that. I’m still gonna try right? And so you can tell. Every 3 days
133 00:16:28.570 ⇒ 00:16:34.369 Uttam Kumaran: we run a new play that’s hard to do. But like we’re gonna keep trying to run new plays.
134 00:16:34.370 ⇒ 00:16:34.780 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
135 00:16:34.780 ⇒ 00:16:43.889 Uttam Kumaran: And and get it going. But I also told Robert even 4 weeks ago, I said, if it doesn’t work out it doesn’t work out, and I’m at that with every client, because we company is bigger than one client like I.
136 00:16:44.430 ⇒ 00:16:47.529 Uttam Kumaran: That client had the opportunity to tank our whole company
137 00:16:47.770 ⇒ 00:16:55.920 Uttam Kumaran: right. And that’s just what happened. And I actually very much pulled the plug on like Robert, you need to spend 50% on time on sales like we did a lot of stuff that’s like
138 00:16:56.290 ⇒ 00:17:04.590 Uttam Kumaran: a week like my I, for there’s 3 days where all I did was eating stuff. And I’m like this is, gonna take the company if I don’t escape right? And so it’s okay.
139 00:17:04.599 ⇒ 00:17:06.199 Sahana Asokan: It’s never ending. They have.
140 00:17:06.200 ⇒ 00:17:31.149 Uttam Kumaran: Never ending. And it’s data, you know, it never ends. And so I I want to get. But this is this is also the thing. I think everybody’s learning is when you like. And I’ve run data team. So I know it. Just I have a level of stoicism when all this stuff where I’m like, it is what it is like. We’re gonna try. And even with data, it’s always something we’re always something new to do. So it’s people have a perfectionist mindset struggle in these environments because they can’t.
141 00:17:31.260 ⇒ 00:17:34.539 Uttam Kumaran: They can’t accept that. There could be improvements to be made
142 00:17:34.980 ⇒ 00:17:49.210 Uttam Kumaran: right. And I deal with some people who who are like, Okay, so you guys come in for 3 months and then what you’re done. I’m like, no, these are like, if your company is growing, you constantly have data. There’s not. There’s just so, it’s actually just like, Can you roll with the punches
143 00:17:49.470 ⇒ 00:17:51.249 Uttam Kumaran: in a stable manner
144 00:17:51.400 ⇒ 00:18:00.499 Uttam Kumaran: project management for us is a huge bottleneck. Just couldn’t invest in it until now. So I really think that’ll take a lot of weight between
145 00:18:00.650 ⇒ 00:18:06.529 Uttam Kumaran: triaging, incoming stuff and assigning out and sort of having that go a little bit better.
146 00:18:06.954 ⇒ 00:18:19.609 Uttam Kumaran: But you’re right, I mean, I think if we have to take lower scope we can. I think now we I feel pretty confident with Demo Lotte taking on Demo Lot innovation, basically building ae redundancy across every client.
147 00:18:20.230 ⇒ 00:18:22.859 Uttam Kumaran: And then I think it’s all I think it’s basically
148 00:18:23.790 ⇒ 00:18:25.530 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like, you get enough. Yeah.
149 00:18:25.530 ⇒ 00:18:30.790 Sahana Asokan: You don’t even need a senior person just like a basic bi person. Right? Like, yeah.
150 00:18:30.790 ⇒ 00:18:33.810 Sahana Asokan: the I person can build basic tableau dashboards like.
151 00:18:33.810 ⇒ 00:18:34.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
152 00:18:34.940 ⇒ 00:18:44.809 Uttam Kumaran: but we had no incoming requirements that were good enough. So that person gets screwed like, I think Bo is a good example of a junior person just getting pinched.
153 00:18:45.390 ⇒ 00:18:48.779 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, I think he could have been way faster.
154 00:18:48.900 ⇒ 00:18:49.880 Uttam Kumaran: But like
155 00:18:50.230 ⇒ 00:18:58.309 Uttam Kumaran: there’s there, I take responsibility for him getting pinched because there’s no clear requirements. You can throw me or you on anything, and that’s fine. But.
156 00:18:58.530 ⇒ 00:18:59.020 Sahana Asokan: I mean.
157 00:18:59.020 ⇒ 00:19:26.290 Uttam Kumaran: Every junior person getting a pinch. Kyle is going through the same thing on Javi, where he’s getting pinched. But you figure out junior senior. And I can. There’s a there’s a different element to like, are these the right people? And that’s more of the question I’m gonna start putting on the Pm’s is before, because I’m making a lot of judgments, and I have to bring people in and sort of put them. But a question for the pm. Because I can’t expect the Pm’s to succeed if they don’t have the right players. So my question is, is this the right team?
158 00:19:26.330 ⇒ 00:19:29.149 Uttam Kumaran: But for me, I’m like. Is this the right team?
159 00:19:29.220 ⇒ 00:19:37.330 Uttam Kumaran: Can I even afford to get the right? I have too much too many factors in my mind. I’m like staring at like 3 mirrors, and sort of having, like a group discussion.
160 00:19:37.500 ⇒ 00:19:38.220 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, that’s.
161 00:19:38.220 ⇒ 00:19:50.479 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, it’s, that’s that’s the equation. But the next once we have the class filled out of folks, my next question is, how can I? How can we divert the right work to the best people, but also the value.
162 00:19:50.560 ⇒ 00:20:19.189 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like, if you’re if you’re able to take on 3 people. I want to pay you more. And like I. And I actually want that to be set up, not in like a spot bonus, just because I like, it’s actually we’re working on like an incentive structure to saying, if you’re able to take on 90% of tasks in a different in a certain domain across 2 clients than 3 clients. There is X percentage that you get on top of like a base level. And so and so we’re doing a couple of factors there, which is one on the amount of work, second, on the amount of escalations.
163 00:20:19.480 ⇒ 00:20:25.740 Uttam Kumaran: but all that takes measurement, and so the Pm. Is the linchpin to there we can start to measure.
164 00:20:25.940 ⇒ 00:20:40.050 Uttam Kumaran: basically like how many tickets are getting done? Who’s taking most of the tickets? And then I want the reward to follow that. But I’d want that to happen in like a principled manner. Like if I if I start just doing that willy nilly like, sure. But
165 00:20:40.190 ⇒ 00:21:02.809 Uttam Kumaran: I I don’t think you guys should trust someone. This is what happens at bad companies is some someone is in charge of like a subjective like bonus program. I don’t want to do that at all. I want to reward the people that we can all look at a number and be like this is the word. This is who’s getting work done like the Eden example is perfect. Had we had project management there, it should have been obvious that
166 00:21:02.970 ⇒ 00:21:07.879 Uttam Kumaran: the dashboard tickets on both plate weren’t moving, my question would have been for the Pm.
167 00:21:08.030 ⇒ 00:21:16.749 Uttam Kumaran: What can you? What do you? What are your options? Your options are to move it to Sauna. Does she have bandwidth? And then that like or what like? What? That’s those are the questions I wanna have
168 00:21:17.143 ⇒ 00:21:28.230 Uttam Kumaran: and I want the value to follow that right, and whatever we can afford, I want the value to follow. Not only that, but also if the client renews. If the client upsells that team is. Gonna get a portion of that
169 00:21:28.583 ⇒ 00:21:34.159 Uttam Kumaran: and this is what we spent. You know. I’m spending some time talking to Robert and to some other advisors about how to do this.
170 00:21:34.910 ⇒ 00:21:44.629 Uttam Kumaran: like a lot of people actually say, don’t do this because they say, like a lot of companies startups. They’ll try to give out equity equity. I’ve been part of a lot of startups.
171 00:21:44.850 ⇒ 00:21:54.450 Uttam Kumaran: You don’t see you’re not gonna see that. And you’re not gonna see that for me 5 years, and then you’ll have to. You’ll have to accept a full time offer to get that like I get the other side of that. I was part of a lot of startups.
172 00:21:54.450 ⇒ 00:21:55.899 Sahana Asokan: It’s like a long game like no.
173 00:21:55.900 ⇒ 00:21:59.519 Uttam Kumaran: Long game, but it’s also a game that you have no control like.
174 00:21:59.520 ⇒ 00:21:59.980 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
175 00:21:59.980 ⇒ 00:22:04.179 Uttam Kumaran: You have no immediate control over, and no immediate short term. Feedback loop from.
176 00:22:04.180 ⇒ 00:22:11.379 Sahana Asokan: No, it’s also luck, like, I think a high percentage of people who benefit from equity is like, it’s a luck thing.
177 00:22:11.380 ⇒ 00:22:12.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, right?
178 00:22:12.600 ⇒ 00:22:17.259 Sahana Asokan: Right time, right place. It really has nothing to do with the end goal you’re working towards.
179 00:22:17.260 ⇒ 00:22:24.079 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I do think there’s a psychology about a short term feedback loop like, if you know, a thousand dollars could come your way. And you’re like
180 00:22:24.470 ⇒ 00:22:31.799 Uttam Kumaran: just one weekend a thousand dollars. I can’t tell you the amount of times as a data person. I I did that for free. I didn’t get anything.
181 00:22:31.960 ⇒ 00:22:35.390 Uttam Kumaran: Someone else made a fucking money off of me, working those weekends.
182 00:22:35.390 ⇒ 00:22:35.890 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
183 00:22:35.890 ⇒ 00:22:43.919 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. I don’t want to imply that, like you have to go over time, but I want to create some of those structures that that push people, and I want those to come out of cash
184 00:22:44.362 ⇒ 00:22:48.300 Uttam Kumaran: is my goal. If I can facilitate, if I can make that happen.
185 00:22:48.480 ⇒ 00:22:56.270 Uttam Kumaran: I am down because I have not seen another agency or another data workplace do that, and I don’t know why, like.
186 00:22:56.270 ⇒ 00:22:57.040 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
187 00:22:57.240 ⇒ 00:22:58.149 Uttam Kumaran: I’m I just.
188 00:22:58.150 ⇒ 00:22:58.880 Sahana Asokan: Like having yeah
189 00:22:58.880 ⇒ 00:23:04.041 Sahana Asokan: cash. I know you brought it up quite a bit. Is that like something you’re worried about like from like
190 00:23:04.470 ⇒ 00:23:08.229 Sahana Asokan: like mark like profit margins like I just. I’m just curious.
191 00:23:08.230 ⇒ 00:23:13.336 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so this is a probably a presentation. I’ll do this Friday, and our team meeting is sort of like what?
192 00:23:13.700 ⇒ 00:23:16.620 Uttam Kumaran: what our like financial goals, are for the company.
193 00:23:16.920 ⇒ 00:23:36.420 Uttam Kumaran: This is a cash flow. This is like a cash flow problem business, meaning all of our clients are on net 30, meaning. I have to make payouts to people sometimes before cash comes in. But right now we are working just building cash reserve for the business meaning building 6 months of runway for the business, so that, no matter what happens, the business is settled.
194 00:23:36.420 ⇒ 00:23:37.640 Sahana Asokan: On their check. Yeah.
195 00:23:37.640 ⇒ 00:23:46.056 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So that’s what is literally the number one priority right now. But it it takes every month. We have to put money away to to make sure that happens.
196 00:23:46.770 ⇒ 00:23:59.810 Uttam Kumaran: that’s sort of the position we’re in now. I’m not worried about the intra intra month stuff. It’s just that like this month was a last month was a huge month, but, like the money is gonna come in over the next 3 weeks. But I have to pay people now. And so there’s like
197 00:24:00.090 ⇒ 00:24:05.070 Uttam Kumaran: that sort of like issue. There’s other ways. We’re gonna solve it. We’re moving to a new accounting provider.
198 00:24:05.190 ⇒ 00:24:20.439 Uttam Kumaran: We’re thinking about getting access to credit line or other stuff like there’s ways to smooth over that that sort of drawdown position. I’m not too worried about that more I’m worried about is hitting our margin numbers right? And our core margin number to hit is like 40%
199 00:24:20.600 ⇒ 00:24:21.530 Uttam Kumaran: meaning like.
200 00:24:21.680 ⇒ 00:24:33.109 Uttam Kumaran: and that’s tough to do like in a in a people business like this. So that’s gonna be the number one thing. And then growing revenue growing Logos is the number one thing. And that’s where we’re spending all of our time on is, how do we build scale.
201 00:24:33.110 ⇒ 00:24:35.260 Sahana Asokan: Robert’s, mainly the one doing sales right.
202 00:24:35.260 ⇒ 00:24:38.030 Uttam Kumaran: Robert’s doing sales as soon as I get out of time.
203 00:24:38.030 ⇒ 00:24:38.560 Sahana Asokan: Fine.
204 00:24:39.339 ⇒ 00:24:45.250 Uttam Kumaran: Connor, it didn’t work out just yeah. He didn’t sell, so it didn’t work out.
205 00:24:45.880 ⇒ 00:24:56.020 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. Connor was a friend of mine, and he was in between jobs, and I was like, give it a shot, and it just wasn’t gonna pan out. We’ll probably hire one more salesperson
206 00:24:56.560 ⇒ 00:24:57.900 Uttam Kumaran: soon. But again I
207 00:24:58.300 ⇒ 00:25:04.000 Uttam Kumaran: like. I can’t make this many hires without more money coming in some sort of like.
208 00:25:04.000 ⇒ 00:25:09.269 Sahana Asokan: Where I’m saying, right? Like, like, How does? Okay, how does the entry level comp work.
209 00:25:10.581 ⇒ 00:25:12.510 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, how do we determine leveling.
210 00:25:12.510 ⇒ 00:25:17.680 Sahana Asokan: Like no like like, for like people like Beau, and like Kyle and stuff, are they hourly, too.
211 00:25:17.680 ⇒ 00:25:29.550 Uttam Kumaran: They’re all hourly. Yeah. So so for folks that come in now, everybody is basically we’re gonna do. So as soon as we get the insist incentive program and like profit program done, we’ll probably re-level people
212 00:25:29.690 ⇒ 00:25:44.746 Uttam Kumaran: and be like, and and basically there will already be kickers that will come in. And I, I feel like people will be okay with what the numbers shake out to be. But yes, that’s another thing we need to work on. This quarter is leveling. So like, how do we have junior senior people.
213 00:25:45.020 ⇒ 00:25:54.780 Sahana Asokan: We need to do the math in the sense of like. Okay, we have this. Many junior people. How many hours on average, clocking every week. What do we feel like their roi really is?
214 00:25:54.780 ⇒ 00:25:55.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
215 00:25:55.170 ⇒ 00:25:59.989 Sahana Asokan: Worth maybe giving, like hiring a senior person at a higher rate, but limiting them to like.
216 00:25:59.990 ⇒ 00:26:00.710 Uttam Kumaran: 100%.
217 00:26:00.710 ⇒ 00:26:01.540 Sahana Asokan: Hours, and like.
218 00:26:01.540 ⇒ 00:26:02.320 Uttam Kumaran: 100%.
219 00:26:02.320 ⇒ 00:26:04.300 Sahana Asokan: You know, like, I think that extra.
220 00:26:04.300 ⇒ 00:26:09.330 Uttam Kumaran: That’s a math we haven’t done yet, because I have no understanding of measurable throughput.
221 00:26:09.630 ⇒ 00:26:17.258 Uttam Kumaran: And so the measurable throughput number we will look at is tickets finished, most likely, because it’s hard to kind of game that
222 00:26:17.590 ⇒ 00:26:24.499 Sahana Asokan: It’s a good one. Tickets finish. I just feel like not everyone’s creating. Like I, personally don’t even create that many tickets for what I do.
223 00:26:24.500 ⇒ 00:26:28.079 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s not on what that’s not on you that’ll be on the Pm. Meaning.
224 00:26:28.080 ⇒ 00:26:28.989 Sahana Asokan: Alright. Okay.
225 00:26:28.990 ⇒ 00:26:32.809 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning like, Yeah, yeah, that’s not in the current. We’re like, we’re still a little bit far from that.
226 00:26:32.810 ⇒ 00:26:33.160 Sahana Asokan: Okay.
227 00:26:33.448 ⇒ 00:26:52.219 Uttam Kumaran: But it’ll be like on tickets finished. But also again, I wanna I wanna look at client success and anecdotally, I already know what what it is, basically. But I don’t want this to be subjective, like, I want there to be measurable like. Here’s what being senior means. Here’s what being a junior means. Again, I want that to be on escalations.
228 00:26:52.480 ⇒ 00:26:56.540 Uttam Kumaran: I want that to be on like ownership of a of a client.
229 00:26:56.540 ⇒ 00:26:57.030 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
230 00:26:57.397 ⇒ 00:27:03.639 Uttam Kumaran: And again, our objective, like our optimization function, is having less people and more clients, right?
231 00:27:03.830 ⇒ 00:27:12.580 Uttam Kumaran: Like I. And and then that’s that’s it. So I actually have no interest in. I would like this to be a team of junior of senior people. I can’t afford that right now.
232 00:27:12.580 ⇒ 00:27:13.069 Sahana Asokan: Exactly, and.
233 00:27:13.070 ⇒ 00:27:16.269 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m like figuring out what the optimization. Yeah.
234 00:27:16.270 ⇒ 00:27:17.560 Sahana Asokan: Exactly because I think.
235 00:27:17.560 ⇒ 00:27:21.760 Uttam Kumaran: Also, it’s it’s tough, because if I was to wait until we can measure, we would die
236 00:27:21.970 ⇒ 00:27:27.899 Uttam Kumaran: right? So I it’s like, I’m sort. I will. I will over hire
237 00:27:28.410 ⇒ 00:27:47.660 Uttam Kumaran: to solve the problem like lower the tension, and then I can start to move it. If if we only have. We we were in a position. We only had 3 people anyways, and I’m doing half the work. So we were. We were jammed. So the the short term thing is, I. We push to try to try to get everything solved. We are definitely overspending.
238 00:27:47.970 ⇒ 00:27:48.660 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
239 00:27:48.960 ⇒ 00:28:04.310 Uttam Kumaran: Then the the optimization problem is okay, like, how can we cut this by 30% by moving people to the right things? Of course, the old, the one thing that solves everything is just selling way more. So that’s gonna be our number. That’s gonna be our focus. More. Because
240 00:28:04.640 ⇒ 00:28:14.510 Uttam Kumaran: again, the problem is, you get to sweatshop mentality if you start to go, think about cost too much. And I’m not trying to do that. I’m okay with some level of overspending, because
241 00:28:14.750 ⇒ 00:28:16.800 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a human component to this, like
242 00:28:16.900 ⇒ 00:28:20.309 Uttam Kumaran: the people in agencies who get to that point, they just like try to.
243 00:28:20.410 ⇒ 00:28:23.530 Uttam Kumaran: They’ll try to find cheap talent I don’t like. It’s like a kind of a
244 00:28:23.890 ⇒ 00:28:26.909 Uttam Kumaran: there’s limits to the how far you want to play that game.
245 00:28:26.910 ⇒ 00:28:27.550 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
246 00:28:27.550 ⇒ 00:28:33.480 Uttam Kumaran: So the biggest thing is for us to continue to sell more bigger deals, and then have some
247 00:28:33.600 ⇒ 00:28:38.879 Uttam Kumaran: sort of refresh process every quarter, or on some cadence where we look at the team.
248 00:28:39.150 ⇒ 00:28:45.409 Uttam Kumaran: And again, a lot of this will go to the Pm’s. To be like. Tell me how what you think about the team about throughput.
249 00:28:45.560 ⇒ 00:28:48.669 Uttam Kumaran: and then I’ll sort of do some optimizations. But I would.
250 00:28:48.870 ⇒ 00:28:53.180 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I’m I’m not like much of a penny Pincher in that like.
251 00:28:53.540 ⇒ 00:29:01.479 Uttam Kumaran: I would rather be okay with paying people more if it keeps people happy because there’s a cost to that. And agencies. The natural tendency is to just
252 00:29:01.780 ⇒ 00:29:07.790 Uttam Kumaran: outsource everybody like have it be a like a really impersonal place to work like? There’s some value to that. So.
253 00:29:07.790 ⇒ 00:29:10.230 Sahana Asokan: How would you say your like attrition has been.
254 00:29:10.890 ⇒ 00:29:19.209 Uttam Kumaran: I would say attrition is has has been very low. All of our attrition has been due to people not doing the work.
255 00:29:19.210 ⇒ 00:29:19.620 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
256 00:29:19.976 ⇒ 00:29:24.259 Uttam Kumaran: It’s never like. I look at things like involuntary and voluntary attrition.
257 00:29:24.550 ⇒ 00:29:35.299 Uttam Kumaran: And I ask everybody during these meetings about like, what do you think about this place to work? There are challenges, of course, but I feel very proud that, like it’s not like a team filled with assholes or like weird.
258 00:29:35.300 ⇒ 00:29:35.790 Sahana Asokan: Not at all.
259 00:29:36.350 ⇒ 00:29:50.450 Uttam Kumaran: But I do ask that because I I have to ask, and we will have other ways that that doesn’t come from me asking to to gather that feedback, but it’s been good. All the all the people we’ve lost has been because of lack of like getting the the job they sign up for, done.
260 00:29:50.450 ⇒ 00:29:54.799 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I feel like that’s the general theme that I’ve kind of been hearing, too.
261 00:29:54.800 ⇒ 00:29:55.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
262 00:29:55.260 ⇒ 00:29:59.320 Sahana Asokan: On the yeah analytic side. But yeah, I think, like, high, like, high level, right? Like.
263 00:29:59.320 ⇒ 00:29:59.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
264 00:29:59.690 ⇒ 00:30:03.320 Sahana Asokan: Been looking at Eden like just like cause, like I know, like
265 00:30:03.830 ⇒ 00:30:07.159 Sahana Asokan: I, I have a pretty good understanding of like everything that needs to be done.
266 00:30:07.160 ⇒ 00:30:07.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
267 00:30:07.530 ⇒ 00:30:11.349 Sahana Asokan: What we’re working on. And really, you need, like Robert, something like.
268 00:30:11.350 ⇒ 00:30:12.980 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think it’s that much, either, but
269 00:30:13.350 ⇒ 00:30:17.029 Uttam Kumaran: jammed on. We’re just keeping jammed every week. It sucks.
270 00:30:17.030 ⇒ 00:30:17.660 Sahana Asokan: And I think.
271 00:30:17.660 ⇒ 00:30:18.360 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.
272 00:30:18.360 ⇒ 00:30:21.169 Sahana Asokan: Like dependence. The data is just.
273 00:30:21.170 ⇒ 00:30:32.389 Uttam Kumaran: Well, the last week last week messes up this week. We promised something we didn’t deliver. Then it carries over and we’ve had this this like. That’s why I’m throwing like everybody at it. Because you we have to catch up.
274 00:30:32.390 ⇒ 00:30:32.770 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
275 00:30:32.770 ⇒ 00:30:33.389 Uttam Kumaran: And then.
276 00:30:33.390 ⇒ 00:30:35.830 Sahana Asokan: We’ll get the dashboards done, and then, like.
277 00:30:35.830 ⇒ 00:30:38.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, at least the others they all know. It’s such a shame
278 00:30:38.810 ⇒ 00:30:41.879 Uttam Kumaran: that we like every week we start the week. Sort of
279 00:30:42.100 ⇒ 00:30:44.740 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s kind of in a there, but like.
280 00:30:44.740 ⇒ 00:30:45.590 Sahana Asokan: Ones.
281 00:30:46.187 ⇒ 00:30:48.510 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I just like.
282 00:30:48.660 ⇒ 00:30:50.610 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we moved Bo off.
283 00:30:50.890 ⇒ 00:30:59.639 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, like, I I work. I’m trying to get one more sort of person just to assist on analyst because we need help on other analyst stuff.
284 00:31:00.006 ⇒ 00:31:05.180 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, ideally, I would love for that to be you. But I want Eden to sort of get past some
285 00:31:05.890 ⇒ 00:31:17.069 Uttam Kumaran: feeling of like, Okay, the next week is, gonna Be a good week. You know that Pm. Steven will help that with the Pm. Side demalade will help that by taking me out and assisting with the wish.
286 00:31:17.420 ⇒ 00:31:18.590 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I think it’s like we were.
287 00:31:18.590 ⇒ 00:31:19.100 Uttam Kumaran: Too off.
288 00:31:19.100 ⇒ 00:31:23.800 Sahana Asokan: I think there’s been some like mess mess, especially even with like data, and like we should not.
289 00:31:23.800 ⇒ 00:31:25.149 Uttam Kumaran: And then it was 4 weeks ago.
290 00:31:25.150 ⇒ 00:31:29.280 Sahana Asokan: Exactly so. I think it’s like everyone knows what’s also pissing the other person off. So.
291 00:31:29.280 ⇒ 00:31:29.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
292 00:31:29.750 ⇒ 00:31:35.399 Sahana Asokan: I think everyone’s trying to be a little bit more intentional with the workflows, too. And the processes.
293 00:31:35.905 ⇒ 00:31:39.809 Sahana Asokan: So yeah, I think it’s I think we’re growing, and we’re making
294 00:31:40.040 ⇒ 00:31:44.489 Sahana Asokan: progress, and that’s all that matters. But I don’t. I wouldn’t be worried about like.
295 00:31:44.490 ⇒ 00:31:45.090 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
296 00:31:45.530 ⇒ 00:31:52.550 Sahana Asokan: Like starting the week off like I I’m just. I was sick, so I didn’t get it done last week, but like I have a lot to do this week, and I do.
297 00:31:52.550 ⇒ 00:32:00.069 Uttam Kumaran: Give me like, okay, until like, let’s talk again. Maybe next week or in 2 weeks about trying to bring you onto stuff for another client.
298 00:32:00.170 ⇒ 00:32:01.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think I want to see the.
299 00:32:01.620 ⇒ 00:32:06.279 Sahana Asokan: Robert, and he said that he wanted to. Well, he’s gonna intro me to the product
300 00:32:06.600 ⇒ 00:32:23.330 Sahana Asokan: product manager on Eden. So he wants me to start doing product analytics for them, which I think is fine, whatever. That’s just some that’s like my 9 to 5 job. So it’s should be okay, and then he also said he wanted to bring me on to urban stems.
301 00:32:23.330 ⇒ 00:32:23.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
302 00:32:23.840 ⇒ 00:32:26.729 Sahana Asokan: And maybe even Stock Blitz.
303 00:32:26.730 ⇒ 00:32:41.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, we have a, we have a bunch of other clients that are literally sitting waiting. But this is where, like I, my, I’m gonna need, Con. I want to get confidence that I don’t that we don’t run into the pious problem. That’s it. And I know you’re it’s not. That’s not on you, but like.
304 00:32:41.200 ⇒ 00:32:42.040 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
305 00:32:42.040 ⇒ 00:32:43.120 Uttam Kumaran: That is.
306 00:32:43.120 ⇒ 00:32:43.510 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
307 00:32:43.510 ⇒ 00:32:50.080 Uttam Kumaran: And I have to. I have to play that defense because I want to do a I want to have a like a mindset about when.
308 00:32:50.080 ⇒ 00:32:50.510 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
309 00:32:50.510 ⇒ 00:32:54.789 Uttam Kumaran: Onto clients and like how to build some redundancy, because.
310 00:32:54.900 ⇒ 00:32:59.230 Uttam Kumaran: like, I just don’t want anyone to get jammed. But again, like, I think in 2 weeks.
311 00:32:59.780 ⇒ 00:33:07.869 Uttam Kumaran: Eden, I think if we, if we feel okay even or even by mid next week again, I’ll have some support from the Pm’s. There to help make that decision.
312 00:33:07.870 ⇒ 00:33:08.250 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
313 00:33:08.250 ⇒ 00:33:12.089 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll we can start to loop you in. We have other clients that are way easier than.
314 00:33:12.090 ⇒ 00:33:18.579 Sahana Asokan: Just start looping me into these intro calls because I do like and appreciate the context. And then.
315 00:33:18.580 ⇒ 00:33:23.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we haven’t even onboarded the Pm’s onto any of those yet. But yeah, I hear you. I hear you.
316 00:33:23.230 ⇒ 00:33:32.109 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, once you guys are ready. And you actually feel like, okay, there are deliverables that need to get done like, just loop me in like I don’t think need like babysitting.
317 00:33:32.110 ⇒ 00:33:35.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, a lot of like hand holding, like, yeah, yeah.
318 00:33:35.170 ⇒ 00:33:41.370 Sahana Asokan: Just take it and run but I do need contacts. Like, I, yeah, that’s the one thing I asked for.
319 00:33:41.640 ⇒ 00:33:42.200 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
320 00:33:42.320 ⇒ 00:33:49.650 Uttam Kumaran: cool. Alright. This is really helpful. And yeah, please, if you have any feedback or any thoughts like this, just slack me. We don’t have to wait until this chat, but.
321 00:33:49.900 ⇒ 00:33:52.039 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I think it’s just more of like.
322 00:33:53.020 ⇒ 00:33:57.859 Uttam Kumaran: Even the questions like, I don’t mind easy. No, I’ll answer any questions about how we’re thinking about the business.
323 00:33:57.860 ⇒ 00:33:58.210 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
324 00:33:58.230 ⇒ 00:34:12.250 Uttam Kumaran: And I like. So I’m happy to answer, and some things I know some things I have a feeling about, something that I have no idea about, so I don’t know. Tell you where we are. I’ve tried to think this is. This is like a 5 year, 6 year, Marathon. I’ve tried to think to the next
325 00:34:12.360 ⇒ 00:34:18.979 Uttam Kumaran: post where I can get an energy gel. But, like I, I only know what I know today on a lot of stuff. So.
326 00:34:18.980 ⇒ 00:34:24.060 Sahana Asokan: That’s okay. And I think it’s fine. I’m just saying like, I think, even with Eden, like, last yeah, last week, kind of sucked. But like.
327 00:34:24.060 ⇒ 00:34:24.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
328 00:34:24.580 ⇒ 00:34:33.120 Sahana Asokan: I I was the one who was, I really think, a senior junior dynamic could work cause it’s kind of like I’m building most of this out like, Hey, dude! Just fix like XY, and z.
329 00:34:33.120 ⇒ 00:34:34.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.
330 00:34:34.130 ⇒ 00:34:43.370 Sahana Asokan: Wasn’t going that way. And I think that’s where everyone was getting frustrated because we didn’t think that these asks these little like minor like changes to a dash.
331 00:34:43.370 ⇒ 00:34:45.149 Uttam Kumaran: No, the work is so easy. It’s ridiculous.
332 00:34:45.159 ⇒ 00:34:49.519 Sahana Asokan: Right. It’s just like it’s like, it’s just like bitch work.
333 00:34:49.520 ⇒ 00:34:57.859 Uttam Kumaran: See? Yeah, I know it is. But then, yeah, you’re totally right. Like that was Comp, that was really bad. I’m still like of the mindset of like
334 00:34:58.190 ⇒ 00:35:03.190 Uttam Kumaran: if I can find opportunity for him. Cause I we just don’t have. I don’t. I haven’t.
335 00:35:03.190 ⇒ 00:35:03.870 Sahana Asokan: We spend the I just don’
336 00:35:03.870 ⇒ 00:35:06.560 Sahana Asokan: he doesn’t try. I’m gonna be honest with you. It’s like.
337 00:35:06.780 ⇒ 00:35:11.529 Sahana Asokan: you don’t have like, yeah, I get it. He’s like very young, and like he hasn’t had a lot of experience.
338 00:35:11.530 ⇒ 00:35:12.980 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I’m with you, I’m with you.
339 00:35:12.980 ⇒ 00:35:17.739 Sahana Asokan: So I get it. Like I, especially with data, it’s not like, it’s not like, you’re a software engineer. It’s kind of.
340 00:35:17.740 ⇒ 00:35:21.459 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I mean, I don’t think tableau. Yeah. I think you learn in like a week.
341 00:35:21.460 ⇒ 00:35:25.130 Sahana Asokan: You learn it, you need to learn it in a work setting like I didn’t know it until I was working.
342 00:35:25.130 ⇒ 00:35:29.780 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, me, neither, until you get pressed, and then you’ll figure it out. But what is it? It’s like? Not that bad.
343 00:35:29.780 ⇒ 00:35:38.020 Sahana Asokan: But my problem is is, if I’m like, Hey, like, can you, you know, look into like fixing this number format like, I don’t know. It’s just like
344 00:35:38.630 ⇒ 00:35:40.979 Sahana Asokan: it’s like, you can just Google it, you know.
345 00:35:40.980 ⇒ 00:35:46.569 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know I know. No, we will. We will raise. Well, that’s the thing is like I can’t. At this moment
346 00:35:46.680 ⇒ 00:35:53.950 Uttam Kumaran: everybody is open to come in and do stuff, the temperature will rise, and I want the value to get pushed to the people at the top.
347 00:35:54.160 ⇒ 00:36:00.259 Uttam Kumaran: So like, do you see what I mean like at the moment Brainforge can just we have access to who we have access to.
348 00:36:00.260 ⇒ 00:36:01.010 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
349 00:36:01.010 ⇒ 00:36:12.780 Uttam Kumaran: As as we start getting enough people. Then I’m like, Turn. I’ll turn the dial up. So you trust me like this is not? This is most likely not gonna be the final crew. We end up with.
350 00:36:12.780 ⇒ 00:36:13.520 Sahana Asokan: Yeah.
351 00:36:13.520 ⇒ 00:36:23.610 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fine. I think I I always need to solve the fires before I can go. Be like, Okay, who do we got? And then I’ll then I’ll sort of again. I but I want it to be a place where
352 00:36:24.190 ⇒ 00:36:37.670 Uttam Kumaran: people are incentivized to get better. I’ll put people with coaches, whatever needs to happen, but, like the water level, will start to rise, cause I know that getting efficient people is not like 2, 3 times better. It makes like everything so much better.
353 00:36:38.150 ⇒ 00:36:41.269 Sahana Asokan: Everyone’s like, like everyone, right? So.
354 00:36:41.270 ⇒ 00:36:51.709 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s like a weak link problem. It’s like, if you have one person on the team of like 8 people that’s like a C. The project is like deal. It’s like dead. Everybody feels bad, you know, and so.
355 00:36:51.710 ⇒ 00:36:57.239 Sahana Asokan: Last week. Literally, I think that was that, was it. So it was just like, yeah, Eden does need
356 00:36:57.560 ⇒ 00:37:01.491 Sahana Asokan: a little like you need to make. You need to be able to make some calls when you’re.
357 00:37:01.710 ⇒ 00:37:05.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, I just don’t think he’s there yet, which is okay.
358 00:37:05.740 ⇒ 00:37:09.730 Uttam Kumaran: I have one client that literally just needs like excel, like
359 00:37:10.340 ⇒ 00:37:14.850 Uttam Kumaran: just like basic inch like excel work that I’m having him do.
360 00:37:14.850 ⇒ 00:37:15.560 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, let’s.
361 00:37:15.560 ⇒ 00:37:23.560 Uttam Kumaran: I won’t, I will. I literally will not move people to more until, like we get the Pm. Thing sorted out, and then the Pm’s, I’ll basically it’ll start being their call.
362 00:37:23.560 ⇒ 00:37:27.460 Uttam Kumaran: So did you? Did you find someone to replace pius?
363 00:37:28.519 ⇒ 00:37:31.929 Uttam Kumaran: No, not yet, but but on on Javi!
364 00:37:32.470 ⇒ 00:37:51.089 Uttam Kumaran: It! The the Javi client is way. It’s so much easier. Javi client. We had an issue because Nico dropped the ball there and then pies dropped the ball there. It was like cascading issues, and I tried to add, Bo, he couldn’t even he couldn’t do anything there. I took on some stuff we had, Jacob. But Jacob is part time.
365 00:37:51.460 ⇒ 00:37:58.070 Uttam Kumaran: Jacob, kind of like, did some mediocre shit like we. We just had like comp like clown train, like
366 00:37:58.270 ⇒ 00:38:03.431 Uttam Kumaran: you know of like shit happen again and again. And this is like in parallel with I was like yo.
367 00:38:04.500 ⇒ 00:38:08.340 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. And then so we haven’t. I need one more analyst and.
368 00:38:09.283 ⇒ 00:38:11.169 Sahana Asokan: Think, like.
369 00:38:11.170 ⇒ 00:38:11.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
370 00:38:11.680 ⇒ 00:38:12.020 Sahana Asokan: So much.
371 00:38:12.020 ⇒ 00:38:13.650 Uttam Kumaran: We’re interviewing one guy.
372 00:38:14.040 ⇒ 00:38:28.960 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where all of our recruiting resources are going, cause we again we we fill it, we fill out the Aes, we fill out the Pm’s. The analyst is where I need one or 2 more people to basically be like cool. We’re done the next 5 clients. This is the crew that can probably handle
373 00:38:29.240 ⇒ 00:38:38.600 Uttam Kumaran: everything because some of our clients over time the workload reduces right like that. So that’s also the math I’m doing is upfront. There’s high work, but then the work sort of like gets.
374 00:38:38.600 ⇒ 00:38:40.270 Sahana Asokan: This is like every week. It’s like.
375 00:38:40.270 ⇒ 00:38:40.990 Uttam Kumaran: No.
376 00:38:41.220 ⇒ 00:38:42.180 Sahana Asokan: Like I was in Florida.
377 00:38:42.180 ⇒ 00:38:57.529 Uttam Kumaran: We are like fundamentally fucking up on like basic meta based dashboards that it’s like comical. And I don’t. And I we’ve, I’ve heard, like every excuse under the sun, and the problem with me is that like I will go do it. So there’s no excuse. There’s really like not much people can say, cause I’m like
378 00:38:57.730 ⇒ 00:39:03.219 Uttam Kumaran: yo. Do you not? How understand how to build like a bar graph like build a bar graph? Don’t tell me
379 00:39:03.370 ⇒ 00:39:09.320 Uttam Kumaran: this is where I’d like I don’t like. But again, like, if everything goes through me, it’s like a failure. So it’s like
380 00:39:09.620 ⇒ 00:39:19.230 Uttam Kumaran: trying to figure that I think I think you’ll be able to easily take on this stuff, or at least Javi, if not one or 2 more clients, and then we’ll have one other person that sort of fills fills it out.
381 00:39:19.450 ⇒ 00:39:25.330 Uttam Kumaran: and then that’ll be it like pious, I think, is probably only gonna be on pool parts until he can guarantee me that he has more than like
382 00:39:25.570 ⇒ 00:39:28.900 Uttam Kumaran: 5 HA week, because at this point it’s not clear that he has that.
383 00:39:29.450 ⇒ 00:39:38.770 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I would say, I’m like a I’m I’m like, been like, I’m like 20 at 25 do like 25 HA week, and it’s like manageable like. I’m not overwhelmed.
384 00:39:38.770 ⇒ 00:39:39.370 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
385 00:39:39.880 ⇒ 00:39:42.839 Uttam Kumaran: If you have anyone else that would be interested.
386 00:39:42.840 ⇒ 00:39:49.199 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, I know some people, I think, for my only hesitation is like everyone just so busy with work like, I think I just
387 00:39:49.400 ⇒ 00:39:51.850 Sahana Asokan: have always just gotten lucky with like chiller.
388 00:39:51.850 ⇒ 00:39:52.840 Uttam Kumaran: Good, good.
389 00:39:52.840 ⇒ 00:39:54.779 Sahana Asokan: You know, 9 to 5 jobs, but.
390 00:39:54.950 ⇒ 00:39:57.210 Uttam Kumaran: Good. Yeah, that’s something. That same thing with me.
391 00:39:57.340 ⇒ 00:39:59.720 Sahana Asokan: So, yeah, yeah.
392 00:40:00.090 ⇒ 00:40:00.740 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
393 00:40:01.850 ⇒ 00:40:04.429 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Good chat. Yeah. Slack me if you need anything.
394 00:40:04.430 ⇒ 00:40:08.770 Sahana Asokan: Yeah, we’ll do, and then I will send over that dashboard. I’m working on it right now. So.
395 00:40:08.770 ⇒ 00:40:10.119 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay. Great.
396 00:40:10.350 ⇒ 00:40:10.930 Sahana Asokan: Bye.