Meeting Title: Mickey_Hannah Date: 2025-03-04 Meeting participants: Michele Altomare, Hannah Wang, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:53.600 ⇒ 00:00:55.770 Michele Altomare: Oh, hey! Hannah!
2 00:00:57.750 ⇒ 00:00:59.380 Hannah Wang: Hi, Mickey, how are you?
3 00:01:00.580 ⇒ 00:01:01.820 Michele Altomare: Good! How’s it going.
4 00:01:03.000 ⇒ 00:01:03.730 Hannah Wang: S.
5 00:01:04.000 ⇒ 00:01:08.470 Hannah Wang: It feels chaotic, but doing all right.
6 00:01:10.190 ⇒ 00:01:12.459 Hannah Wang: Not just like work, wise, but just
7 00:01:12.910 ⇒ 00:01:15.590 Hannah Wang: everything. I don’t know why I said that. How’s it going for you.
8 00:01:15.590 ⇒ 00:01:21.970 Michele Altomare: No, that’s fair. That’s a super. That’s a super fair statement. I totally.
9 00:01:22.800 ⇒ 00:01:28.348 Michele Altomare: I totally get that good, not bad, all the same
10 00:01:28.890 ⇒ 00:01:34.360 Michele Altomare: I had a couple of meetings this morning, and then you’re on the West Coast, Tom mentioned.
11 00:01:34.780 ⇒ 00:01:38.359 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I’m on I’m in pacific time. I’m in la right now.
12 00:01:38.360 ⇒ 00:01:43.480 Michele Altomare: La, okay word I fly into. Have you been to Costa Mesa ever.
13 00:01:43.600 ⇒ 00:01:44.779 Hannah Wang: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
14 00:01:44.780 ⇒ 00:01:51.597 Michele Altomare: Yeah the company I work with. They’re based out of there. So I’m there like once a month. Haven’t been up to la yet.
15 00:01:52.060 ⇒ 00:01:56.410 Hannah Wang: Do you fly into like? I don’t know what airports Burbank, the Burbank airport, or.
16 00:01:56.410 ⇒ 00:01:59.949 Michele Altomare: Long wind. S, and a John Wayne. Okay, yeah, yeah.
17 00:02:00.280 ⇒ 00:02:07.130 Michele Altomare: Tiny, tiny little airport. No, we had some. We had some stuff this morning, but
18 00:02:08.360 ⇒ 00:02:13.880 Michele Altomare: you know how it goes. It’s like something gets pushed back 10 min, and then the next thing gets like 30 min, and then the whole day
19 00:02:14.160 ⇒ 00:02:17.320 Michele Altomare: doesn’t get fucked, but it’s like it’s nothing.
20 00:02:17.530 ⇒ 00:02:21.470 Hannah Wang: That’s how meetings go, especially back to back ones just
21 00:02:23.180 ⇒ 00:02:28.130 Hannah Wang: plus or minus like 30 min to 45 min just pushed. Usually.
22 00:02:28.130 ⇒ 00:02:28.650 Michele Altomare: Yeah.
23 00:02:29.210 ⇒ 00:02:29.750 Hannah Wang: So.
24 00:02:30.610 ⇒ 00:02:32.250 Hannah Wang: I don’t know if Utong’s gonna
25 00:02:32.400 ⇒ 00:02:38.029 Hannah Wang: join. I think I remember, he said. He’s gonna give like a brief intro of everyone on the team. But.
26 00:02:38.030 ⇒ 00:02:38.570 Michele Altomare: Yeah.
27 00:02:38.570 ⇒ 00:02:41.579 Hannah Wang: I’m assuming he’s running late, too, from his meeting.
28 00:02:41.904 ⇒ 00:02:44.820 Michele Altomare: I think you guys have. I think you guys.
29 00:02:45.400 ⇒ 00:02:47.250 Michele Altomare: Utah might be king of calls.
30 00:02:47.250 ⇒ 00:02:52.089 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, guys, I’m so sorry right on time. I’m very sorry.
31 00:02:52.630 ⇒ 00:02:54.904 Uttam Kumaran: Guess what I was on a call.
32 00:02:55.840 ⇒ 00:02:59.739 Hannah Wang: We’re just talking about that, how everything just gets pushed usually.
33 00:02:59.740 ⇒ 00:03:12.066 Uttam Kumaran: I know. Well, it’s story in my life that I’m like the worst employee here. I was already saying that. So I don’t. Did you guys say Hello! I could. I could. Just I could just leave if you’re all good.
34 00:03:12.360 ⇒ 00:03:17.149 Hannah Wang: We just said Hi, but and we talked about the woes of meetings, but.
35 00:03:17.150 ⇒ 00:03:32.784 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay, well, let me give a brief intro, and then I will leave. So, Mickey, this is Hannah. Hannah is an all star designer on our team. She has a background in engineering, but, of course, is moving over to the
36 00:03:33.510 ⇒ 00:03:41.189 Uttam Kumaran: What is what is like the the romantic era where they’re like. What was that era during the Roman time where they have like arts and stuff.
37 00:03:41.190 ⇒ 00:03:41.630 Hannah Wang: Renaissance.
38 00:03:41.630 ⇒ 00:03:43.470 Uttam Kumaran: Renaissance. Sorry Renaissance Era.
39 00:03:43.470 ⇒ 00:03:44.030 Hannah Wang: Take care!
40 00:03:44.030 ⇒ 00:03:48.720 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I thought, Okay, yeah. Renaissance era of her life where she’s moving to
41 00:03:48.960 ⇒ 00:03:51.859 Uttam Kumaran: working in design. She also does photography.
42 00:03:52.592 ⇒ 00:04:09.159 Uttam Kumaran: and a lot of other stuff. I’m sure you guys will find a lot in common. But she’s also, you know, helping a lot with our designs and brand. So everything from content to sales assets to thinking about as a whole. How does the marketing and design team affect
43 00:04:09.280 ⇒ 00:04:11.379 Uttam Kumaran: us? Bringing in more business?
44 00:04:12.840 ⇒ 00:04:14.520 Uttam Kumaran: And for Hannah’s.
45 00:04:15.260 ⇒ 00:04:20.367 Uttam Kumaran: I think I’ve given some context on Mickey. But Mickey is a really really good friend of mine has worked in Ecom.
46 00:04:20.730 ⇒ 00:04:28.599 Uttam Kumaran: has run his own Ecom Company worked with a lot several Ecom firms running brand creative content strategy. Everything from like
47 00:04:29.080 ⇒ 00:04:51.300 Uttam Kumaran: creating the ad asset to running the ad to basically determining the entire strategy around brands the feeling who we’re going after positioning. So I think really, really great person to take a firm like ours, which is in a technical realm, but still has probably a lot to gain from being, you know, really opinionated on the brand side. And how do we stand out among other very boring
48 00:04:51.450 ⇒ 00:05:01.359 Uttam Kumaran: companies in our in our industry? So yeah, I think I’ve both of you guys have context on this meeting, so maybe I’ll Mickey. I’ll just make you host, and then I’ll see you on the
49 00:05:01.990 ⇒ 00:05:02.690 Uttam Kumaran: on the next.
50 00:05:02.690 ⇒ 00:05:05.089 Michele Altomare: Yeah, I’ll I’ll text you later. You’re recording the meeting. Huh?
51 00:05:05.090 ⇒ 00:05:06.780 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, this meeting is being recorded. Yeah.
52 00:05:06.780 ⇒ 00:05:07.729 Michele Altomare: Oh, okay. Weird.
53 00:05:07.730 ⇒ 00:05:09.010 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Alright, thanks, guys.
54 00:05:09.800 ⇒ 00:05:10.180 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.
55 00:05:14.770 ⇒ 00:05:21.119 Michele Altomare: It’s always funny, like mutual friends, like the way like the intro, and things are always so civil. But
56 00:05:21.440 ⇒ 00:05:22.930 Michele Altomare: I mean you, too.
57 00:05:22.930 ⇒ 00:05:24.730 Hannah Wang: How long have you known Futon? For.
58 00:05:24.730 ⇒ 00:05:27.400 Michele Altomare: We. We’ve known each other for
59 00:05:27.960 ⇒ 00:05:30.226 Michele Altomare: 2 years. I moved to
60 00:05:31.720 ⇒ 00:05:41.266 Michele Altomare: to tech. So I’m in Austin, Texas now for Miami. And then now I’m working with the the firm in Costa Mesa. So progressively moving further.
61 00:05:42.140 ⇒ 00:05:42.830 Michele Altomare: it seems like you.
62 00:05:42.830 ⇒ 00:05:46.200 Hannah Wang: Come here, best best coast. Come to the list.
63 00:05:46.520 ⇒ 00:05:47.000 Michele Altomare: Yeah.
64 00:05:47.710 ⇒ 00:05:52.140 Michele Altomare: Ruton told me that you worked as an engineer for aws at 1 point.
65 00:05:53.171 ⇒ 00:06:00.476 Hannah Wang: Not not exactly aws. I worked at ring, which was acquired by Amazon.
66 00:06:01.800 ⇒ 00:06:19.356 Hannah Wang: for like 2 years post grad. And then I was like. This isn’t for me. So I pivoted to design, and I’m enjoying it a lot more. I I mean, I can be technical, I guess, but I just don’t really enjoy it. My brain doesn’t really think about like optimization, and just like infra and all that stuff I’m just like.
67 00:06:20.060 ⇒ 00:06:24.360 Hannah Wang: that’s not for me. I’d rather do design stuff. Here I am now.
68 00:06:24.540 ⇒ 00:06:28.869 Michele Altomare: That’s super real. You you put together the the brand for site, or like the figma.
69 00:06:29.610 ⇒ 00:06:30.150 Hannah Wang: Oh!
70 00:06:30.150 ⇒ 00:06:31.070 Michele Altomare: Is that what we’re.
71 00:06:31.070 ⇒ 00:06:31.910 Hannah Wang: No?
72 00:06:32.060 ⇒ 00:06:56.489 Hannah Wang: Well, that that’s not me. Give credit to the the designer and the web flow person, but it does. It does look good. I mean, that’s the feedback that Tom said we get. Now, which is that the website looks good. But I think kind of going this touching on our meeting like, yeah, he thinks that it’s still unclear kind of what we do and the positioning we have. And I mean, our target audience
73 00:06:57.190 ⇒ 00:07:11.290 Hannah Wang: are people who aren’t super well versed in data. So how do we like position ourselves so that it’s like very clear what we do? I think Tom and I also think that, like the copy and all that stuff could use some work. But
74 00:07:11.610 ⇒ 00:07:22.419 Hannah Wang: yeah, I I don’t know if you like, clicked into the strategy notion document that I made. I think I see your icon in it, but I can also share my screen
75 00:07:22.630 ⇒ 00:07:24.090 Hannah Wang: for that.
76 00:07:25.160 ⇒ 00:07:31.209 Hannah Wang: I mean, we only have like what 20 min. And I know you have like meetings with other people on the design and content
77 00:07:31.420 ⇒ 00:07:37.299 Hannah Wang: team. But I mean, yeah, there’s like a lot of questions here. But I think the main thing
78 00:07:37.590 ⇒ 00:07:45.190 Hannah Wang: that I’ll go over 1st is kind of the assets that we currently have. So we have the website. We have sales and we have.
79 00:07:45.300 ⇒ 00:07:55.179 Hannah Wang: And I guess this is not an asset. But yeah, I don’t know if you like. Took a look I’m assuming you did at our website, and you said it was clean and good. But
80 00:07:55.400 ⇒ 00:07:59.460 Hannah Wang: I don’t know. I just feel like it’s very verbose and.
81 00:08:01.520 ⇒ 00:08:06.440 Michele Altomare: Sure I don’t know like what does go ahead.
82 00:08:06.760 ⇒ 00:08:20.669 Michele Altomare: I’ll give like some like, maybe 30 second background. That might be. So. I also came from an engineering background like I went to school for software. Worked as a dev but then call it Renaissance.
83 00:08:21.485 ⇒ 00:08:22.300 Hannah Wang: Romance.
84 00:08:22.300 ⇒ 00:08:26.439 Michele Altomare: Shit. Yeah. So how he is good guy.
85 00:08:27.230 ⇒ 00:08:37.369 Michele Altomare: I started working a lot with the really creative like production teams from like a systems perspective. I hate to throw out so many buzzwords because I feel like they get played out all the time.
86 00:08:38.750 ⇒ 00:08:45.259 Michele Altomare: And now I’m building one inside of this E-com agency for them, and then the Ecom brands that they also serve.
87 00:08:45.440 ⇒ 00:08:46.829 Hannah Wang: Okay, so.
88 00:08:47.190 ⇒ 00:08:56.330 Michele Altomare: Yeah, I was just chatting with, because, like, right now, we’re building it out for our team and then for some of the In house brands that we have. But I was just chatting with him because he’s mentioned like
89 00:08:57.860 ⇒ 00:09:00.070 Michele Altomare: Brainforge is an AI company.
90 00:09:00.320 ⇒ 00:09:08.309 Michele Altomare: AI is its own kind of black box. Some of the people that come on the website may or may not be technical, but I was just really curious for my own learning, but then, also just
91 00:09:08.410 ⇒ 00:09:14.969 Michele Altomare: from experience. And if there’s any way to contribute to meet with some of the team and kind of just see how you guys have
92 00:09:15.760 ⇒ 00:09:21.619 Michele Altomare: work like, divided and assigned, you know, and kind of just how the interactions between
93 00:09:21.980 ⇒ 00:09:28.250 Michele Altomare: different teams work. I mean, I saw you have, like the figma, the website sales is, on the notion.
94 00:09:28.790 ⇒ 00:09:29.720 Hannah Wang: And then.
95 00:09:30.210 ⇒ 00:09:33.270 Michele Altomare: Would love to hear like your role within that
96 00:09:34.560 ⇒ 00:09:42.769 Michele Altomare: Utah has also mentioned like copy, and like desires for some of that to kind of be for y’all to have more autonomy with it. So
97 00:09:43.050 ⇒ 00:09:46.879 Michele Altomare: that’s kind of a ramble. But I guess within this, like, what is your role?
98 00:09:47.190 ⇒ 00:09:50.829 Hannah Wang: Specifically look like in, I guess the day to day. And then how that.
99 00:09:51.050 ⇒ 00:09:53.369 Michele Altomare: Plays with other members of the team.
100 00:09:53.950 ⇒ 00:09:59.779 Hannah Wang: Yeah. So before I actually joined like one and a half months ago, so I haven’t been.
101 00:09:59.780 ⇒ 00:10:00.830 Michele Altomare: That long.
102 00:10:01.106 ⇒ 00:10:08.010 Hannah Wang: And before me there was a designer who built out everything. And then there’s 1 content person, Ryan. I think you’re gonna chat with him.
103 00:10:08.860 ⇒ 00:10:17.290 Hannah Wang: I think, after me. So Ann is our designer, and Ryan is our content person. But Utam was looking for someone who could kind of lead
104 00:10:17.680 ⇒ 00:10:47.560 Hannah Wang: both of them in in a direction that makes it clear what it just aligns with the brand that we have and just kinda guide them. Cause, as you know, Tom is very stretched, and before I came in he was kind of managing Ann and Ryan but he kind of wanted someone to manage them on his behalf. Someone who could kind of bridge like the technical side of AI, and all that stuff with like the more creative romantic, whatever Renaissance stuff that he mentioned. So that’s where I come in. I
105 00:10:48.254 ⇒ 00:11:03.420 Hannah Wang: yeah, in the beginning, because it was kind of a lot. We, Tom, was like, okay, just focus on design first.st So I think I have like a handle of all the design stuff that we have. So the website assets, and then we have like assets for content, and stuff like that which we put a pause on, for now
106 00:11:03.945 ⇒ 00:11:13.719 Hannah Wang: and then he was like, Oh, slowly you can start to take over content. But I think we had a discussion one month in, and he was like, maybe you can just
107 00:11:13.880 ⇒ 00:11:17.870 Hannah Wang: be like still within the design team, but serve
108 00:11:18.620 ⇒ 00:11:36.840 Hannah Wang: like, make the content team like a client, so that you’re serving them rather than you like managing content because content is like a whole beast in and of itself I feel like there’s a lot of things that I don’t know about, content like SEO, and just like strategy, and all that stuff, and Ryan, I think, has like a good handle on it.
109 00:11:37.189 ⇒ 00:11:49.159 Hannah Wang: So that’s kind of my like positioning right now. I’m kind of like managing, I guess, in a sense, and and also doing some of the design work with her and co-designing with her, and then also trying to
110 00:11:49.320 ⇒ 00:12:03.830 Hannah Wang: help content. Wherever Ryan needs me in terms of like assets and stuff like that. But then, also, like with this meeting and the content strategy and all that stuff like I feel like I’m also still contributing
111 00:12:04.010 ⇒ 00:12:14.769 Hannah Wang: the content and not necessarily siloing myself to just design. So I think I’m kind of just like I’m fully designed. But also, like I have one leg half my body in content as well.
112 00:12:14.770 ⇒ 00:12:17.669 Hannah Wang: Yeah, not like super well versed in it. Yeah.
113 00:12:17.700 ⇒ 00:12:20.370 Michele Altomare: That makes sense. And there’s always overlap between these things. So.
114 00:12:20.370 ⇒ 00:12:21.090 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
115 00:12:21.090 ⇒ 00:12:22.670 Michele Altomare: Ryan cause. I
116 00:12:23.030 ⇒ 00:12:29.279 Michele Altomare: just conversations in the past with boots on. He does like copywriting for a blog, also in general copywriting.
117 00:12:29.480 ⇒ 00:12:32.859 Hannah Wang: Yeah, what makes it to the website in Figma. So then, is that Ann.
118 00:12:33.695 ⇒ 00:12:37.559 Hannah Wang: yeah, the website. All the figma stuff is Ann. And then me also. Now.
119 00:12:37.780 ⇒ 00:12:44.420 Michele Altomare: Got you. And then, when you say like, you like treating Utam’s
120 00:12:45.540 ⇒ 00:12:54.470 Michele Altomare: I guess, like the marketing or design team as a client. When what do you mean when you say that in the sense that like, will they request certain assets? And then you spin them up, and I don’t. Okay.
121 00:12:54.710 ⇒ 00:12:55.550 Hannah Wang: Exactly.
122 00:12:57.510 ⇒ 00:12:58.145 Michele Altomare: Is
123 00:12:59.700 ⇒ 00:13:06.230 Michele Altomare: is leading them something that you enjoy doing or want to be doing. The answer doesn’t have to be yes. By the way.
124 00:13:07.530 ⇒ 00:13:08.770 Hannah Wang: I mean.
125 00:13:09.100 ⇒ 00:13:28.783 Hannah Wang: in an ideal world. I would kind of be doing what Anna is doing, not necessarily leading and strategizing, but kinda just being told like, Oh, this is what you design, and kinda going head just heads down and being creative and designing and stuff like that. But obviously that’s not the role I like came in to fill.
126 00:13:29.800 ⇒ 00:13:39.235 Hannah Wang: the answer is, no, but I I’m happy to do so, and I think there’s a lot of areas to grow in in terms of just personally learning all these things.
127 00:13:40.300 ⇒ 00:13:41.350 Hannah Wang: and there’s like.
128 00:13:41.950 ⇒ 00:13:47.289 Hannah Wang: Yeah, it’s either I do it or they find someone else, I guess so. I don’t know.
129 00:13:47.580 ⇒ 00:13:51.959 Michele Altomare: Well, we don’t, I mean, I’ll say this in passing. I’m still trying to keep all the names straight, but like
130 00:13:52.080 ⇒ 00:13:58.400 Michele Altomare: as stretched as he is. I’ve really only heard good things to say as far as like what
131 00:13:59.180 ⇒ 00:14:09.500 Michele Altomare: y’all’s team has put together like we, Thomas, like a super ambitious dude. So I totally get when he’s like yo, we should build this thing and do this blog and clip this shit. I’m like dude
132 00:14:10.150 ⇒ 00:14:13.519 Michele Altomare: come to Earth for a minute like.
133 00:14:13.810 ⇒ 00:14:16.869 Michele Altomare: because he’s really he’s really clear with some of the vision stuff.
134 00:14:18.500 ⇒ 00:14:22.009 Michele Altomare: I know he’s gonna watch back this recording later. So this is all.
135 00:14:22.010 ⇒ 00:14:23.869 Hannah Wang: Gonna give you crap for it.
136 00:14:24.180 ⇒ 00:14:27.039 Michele Altomare: I mean it. I really mean it in a good way.
137 00:14:28.200 ⇒ 00:14:30.230 Michele Altomare: I’m trying to think so like
138 00:14:30.690 ⇒ 00:14:34.170 Michele Altomare: if we look at copywriting right where.
139 00:14:38.170 ⇒ 00:14:52.149 Michele Altomare: like, if something’s going to be created right, I guess the blog is one thing. The website is one thing you guys have, like figma pages and assets that you put together for different service offerings like I know you probably have it up there somewhere. We, Thomas, shown them to me before.
140 00:14:52.600 ⇒ 00:14:58.589 Michele Altomare: What does the workflow look like from like start to end when
141 00:14:58.980 ⇒ 00:15:05.630 Michele Altomare: and maybe this comes from who taught me? Let me know when it’s like, Okay, I want to deliver these one pagers for different client types
142 00:15:06.710 ⇒ 00:15:10.590 Michele Altomare: like once that’s said, what’s the path that that goes down.
143 00:15:11.530 ⇒ 00:15:16.030 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I think once the idea is created, I think
144 00:15:16.920 ⇒ 00:15:37.789 Hannah Wang: I mean cause I’m a designer. I think I think more about the design 1st rather than like the content, because ultimately, like Utah, has mentioned this to me before, like he would ideally make Ryan like the content, the copy, and the content person, and he would be the one that design would go to to grab copy
145 00:15:38.242 ⇒ 00:15:53.389 Hannah Wang: but now I think utam kind of positions himself where it’s like, Oh, you, you, as a designer, should also be versed in the copy so that you can create it yourself, instead of having, like Utam, provide the copy for us so currently as it stands.
146 00:15:54.200 ⇒ 00:16:18.089 Hannah Wang: And then I start like a Lo-fi mid 5 right wireframe of like a 1 pager we create. Well, I guess before that, like I guess someone would give us like, oh, these are the things that we want in the one pager, like the sections and kind of like the general idea. And then I take that we run with it. And then we create like a mock up. And then we just use, like Laura Mipsum, to fill in, like the copy.
147 00:16:18.090 ⇒ 00:16:18.740 Michele Altomare: Yeah.
148 00:16:18.740 ⇒ 00:16:33.430 Hannah Wang: As placeholders, and then we either tag Utam or like, try to schedule a call with him, and it’s like, Oh, this is the copy that we need takes like 2 to 3 business days for him to get back to us because he’s really busy. And then
149 00:16:34.840 ⇒ 00:16:59.220 Hannah Wang: he’s like, Okay, I’ll like come up with a copy, comes up with a copy later, and then we iterate again, based on the copy, because based on the length. How short or long. It is like the design changes. Obviously, we go through that like a couple more times, always tagging him like, Hey, is this copy? Okay? Is this design. Okay? And then finally, at the end, after, like multiple iterations of this, it’s like good to go.
150 00:17:00.810 ⇒ 00:17:03.959 Hannah Wang: So Utam is like the blocker cause he’s
151 00:17:04.440 ⇒ 00:17:23.689 Hannah Wang: he’s the one providing the copy right now. But I think he wants to come out of the picture and be like, you guys create the copy yourselves, and then I want to be the one approving it at the way end, like right before we push it to prod like, I want to be the one reviewing it, and I think he it’s easier for him and everyone obviously to like
152 00:17:24.410 ⇒ 00:17:39.770 Hannah Wang: revise, copy that’s already there versus staring at like a blank cursor and blank page. So I think he just wants to get us to a point where we can create like 85 to 95% of the one pager, and then he like gives the green light for the rest.
153 00:17:40.265 ⇒ 00:17:55.309 Hannah Wang: And then we like iterate, based on his feedback. So I think that’s like the main challenge that we have right now. Like the figma design process. And like, the yeah, the copy generation like, I’m happy to.
154 00:17:55.440 ⇒ 00:17:59.159 Hannah Wang: you know, like, look around and look at notion and Google stuff.
155 00:17:59.990 ⇒ 00:18:00.660 Hannah Wang: But
156 00:18:01.610 ⇒ 00:18:06.449 Hannah Wang: I mean, I haven’t tried it yet, but I think that’s just the direction that he wants us to go in
157 00:18:06.680 ⇒ 00:18:07.390 Michele Altomare: For sure.
158 00:18:08.460 ⇒ 00:18:09.770 Hannah Wang: Sorry. That was like a very long, winded answer.
159 00:18:09.770 ⇒ 00:18:12.440 Michele Altomare: No, no, no, it all. It all makes sense in it all. Like
160 00:18:13.380 ⇒ 00:18:20.990 Michele Altomare: gives context, because I could imagine. And you tell me if this is like hot or cold that
161 00:18:22.700 ⇒ 00:18:24.360 Michele Altomare: if if you’re doing.
162 00:18:24.590 ⇒ 00:18:33.049 Michele Altomare: I don’t know if you guys work off of like a ticketing system. But you’re like you’re building design components and assets and renders and figma, or wherever and then you have to go find the copy for them.
163 00:18:33.200 ⇒ 00:18:35.459 Michele Altomare: That would also involve research. No.
164 00:18:35.610 ⇒ 00:18:38.259 Michele Altomare: maybe somewhat like on what? Okay?
165 00:18:39.790 ⇒ 00:18:45.440 Michele Altomare: For for some of this writing, then like, if if Ron.
166 00:18:45.990 ⇒ 00:18:50.059 Michele Altomare: setting up things for like the blog, or different content in general
167 00:18:50.930 ⇒ 00:19:02.569 Michele Altomare: is the copy that he writes because it’s like for him to start like, let’s say it is a blank page to get it to 90% for Utop to green light. Is that something he can do, or that you guys have tried
168 00:19:02.750 ⇒ 00:19:13.069 Michele Altomare: like, is there any re any brief that’s written on like page notes, talking points, or a copy draft before it lands on you and Anne’s page to build
169 00:19:14.030 ⇒ 00:19:15.540 Michele Altomare: the lower medium 5.
170 00:19:16.588 ⇒ 00:19:19.099 Hannah Wang: So, for example, like
171 00:19:21.026 ⇒ 00:19:30.809 Hannah Wang: I I mean I it’s hard for me to give an answer clearly, because I came in in the middle of everything when it was already happening, for example. But, for example, like
172 00:19:31.490 ⇒ 00:19:48.910 Hannah Wang: this was like the initial kind of v, 1 v. 2, that Anne had and had created. So I don’t know where this copy came from. I don’t know if it was like Lauren for a while, and then Tom like, provided it, and she just like updated it, or if she came up with it, or if Ryan came up with it, but
173 00:19:49.740 ⇒ 00:19:51.730 Hannah Wang: I think generally
174 00:19:52.050 ⇒ 00:19:58.340 Hannah Wang: there is like a layout like we have notion, and we have, like a bunch of tickets and all that stuff, and, as far as I know, like
175 00:19:59.100 ⇒ 00:20:04.477 Hannah Wang: there has been. I’m pretty sure it’s from Chat Gpt. There has been like a layout created
176 00:20:05.530 ⇒ 00:20:15.829 Hannah Wang: and then I think, and just fills it in, and then waits for Utam to provide copy for the rest, and then we keep like, keep keep iterating, and the new Tom is very like
177 00:20:15.990 ⇒ 00:20:22.750 Hannah Wang: he has a good eye, and I think he insists on the high standards. So advising. Stuff
178 00:20:23.050 ⇒ 00:20:32.409 Hannah Wang: in terms of like content, like blog posts and stuff, I think what Ryan does. You can ask him later, but I think he uses a lot of chat gpt to to create like a outline.
179 00:20:32.410 ⇒ 00:20:56.790 Hannah Wang: and then he like drafts things up, and I think because Utam is so busy like Ryan, usually like Utah, just gives a thumbs up like I think he skims through the content. But generally he’s like, I’ll just push it out like. That’s what we’ve been doing for a lot of our blog posts and linkedin and stuff like that, like all of these articles, like, if they’re all Ryan, like Ryan, creates all of these. And I think Utam does give like a look through.
180 00:20:58.540 ⇒ 00:21:00.029 Hannah Wang: But yeah, it’s yeah.
181 00:21:00.550 ⇒ 00:21:01.974 Michele Altomare: Do you guys have?
182 00:21:03.080 ⇒ 00:21:08.209 Michele Altomare: And I know this sometimes falls like out of the scope of what design and marketing does.
183 00:21:08.690 ⇒ 00:21:10.500 Michele Altomare: but as far as like
184 00:21:11.050 ⇒ 00:21:16.900 Michele Altomare: it introduces a whole nother leg, but like leads, or how well this stuff performs.
185 00:21:17.020 ⇒ 00:21:21.040 Michele Altomare: How do you guys assess that cause? I know that’s another piece that he’s mentioned.
186 00:21:21.490 ⇒ 00:21:23.919 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I know.
187 00:21:24.310 ⇒ 00:21:26.780 Hannah Wang: Oh, I’m not logged in right now. I think
188 00:21:27.990 ⇒ 00:21:39.030 Hannah Wang: so. There’s post hoc, so I think the developer and Ryan they keep track of all that stuff and clicks, and you know, click through rates and all that stuff. We also have a tracker.
189 00:21:40.313 ⇒ 00:21:46.653 Hannah Wang: Just marketing trackers. So, for example, like on Linkedin, we have.
190 00:21:47.260 ⇒ 00:21:51.550 Hannah Wang: yeah, Linkedin has like analytics and stuff. So we just like keep track of those things.
191 00:21:52.180 ⇒ 00:21:57.689 Michele Altomare: Yeah, do you have a gut feeling on where the most impactful
192 00:21:58.510 ⇒ 00:22:01.610 Michele Altomare: content, or like assets or design
193 00:22:02.570 ⇒ 00:22:08.339 Michele Altomare: comes from or like? If you could be designing anything that you think would be one like
194 00:22:08.900 ⇒ 00:22:11.400 Michele Altomare: exciting to you and
195 00:22:13.040 ⇒ 00:22:19.779 Michele Altomare: like within your wheelhouse, and then 2 also like serving to brain Forge. Is there anything that comes to mind
196 00:22:20.900 ⇒ 00:22:21.490 Michele Altomare: that we’re.
197 00:22:21.980 ⇒ 00:22:23.219 Hannah Wang: That we’re not creating.
198 00:22:23.220 ⇒ 00:22:32.129 Michele Altomare: Yeah, and that can be a loaded question. It might not even be an answer off the top of your head. But, like, if you’re like, you have a blank slate to design anything, and you think it would resonate.
199 00:22:32.660 ⇒ 00:22:34.010 Michele Altomare: Is there something.
200 00:22:39.600 ⇒ 00:22:42.559 Hannah Wang: I think maybe just like other resources.
201 00:22:42.720 ⇒ 00:22:48.980 Hannah Wang: Oh, I don’t know if this is like design or content, but I guess they’re intertwined. But like, because
202 00:22:49.250 ⇒ 00:22:57.280 Hannah Wang: we’re trying to target an audience that is not super well versed in all this technical data stuff like creating like a 4 dummies type of
203 00:22:58.100 ⇒ 00:23:08.200 Hannah Wang: like asset or document, I think, would be helpful, and that kind of leads itself to like, you know, a lead magnet slash lead Gen. Like providing that for users and stuff like that. But
204 00:23:09.170 ⇒ 00:23:14.620 Hannah Wang: honestly, like, I don’t really know, because, like the marketing, the sales team like
205 00:23:14.670 ⇒ 00:23:33.199 Hannah Wang: is already talking with a bunch of client clients like, I don’t really know how we got those clients in the 1st place like, are any of them coming from our website? Or is it just from like personal like, Hey, I’m part of this company like, Do you want my service? And then it’s like through connections that we get clients like, I don’t really know. I guess I could ask the sales team
206 00:23:33.481 ⇒ 00:23:46.710 Hannah Wang: how we get our leads generally, but I don’t know if any of them actually came from, like our website at all, to be honest. So maybe that’s where we should redesign, you know, like redesign the website, redesign our Linkedin post. And just like the
207 00:23:46.790 ⇒ 00:23:49.519 Hannah Wang: sales funnel to make sure that
208 00:23:49.790 ⇒ 00:23:54.000 Hannah Wang: we’re actually doing what we’re wanting to do through the website.
209 00:23:55.480 ⇒ 00:23:56.960 Michele Altomare: That makes a ton of sense.
210 00:23:57.070 ⇒ 00:24:07.300 Michele Altomare: But is that where, like on the more artistic side, like, I think that for dummies picture is a really clear one, like something that would excite you, that you would feel
211 00:24:08.670 ⇒ 00:24:09.939 Michele Altomare: I don’t know. Interested in
212 00:24:10.700 ⇒ 00:24:18.939 Michele Altomare: or like different. You see what I mean, because I know there’s like the ideation component. Then there’s like whipping things up in adobe or whatever you use. And then there’s like
213 00:24:19.490 ⇒ 00:24:28.049 Michele Altomare: the specific writing. And then the approval process in other provisions, like, Yeah, like, I’ll I’ll give.
214 00:24:28.200 ⇒ 00:24:31.099 Michele Altomare: This is always stuck with me. And it’s surprising, because.
215 00:24:31.300 ⇒ 00:24:34.960 Michele Altomare: you see it with really really big creative teams like I used to work on a lot of
216 00:24:35.545 ⇒ 00:24:38.220 Michele Altomare: photo shoot sets, especially with like
217 00:24:38.840 ⇒ 00:24:40.819 Michele Altomare: cars and models and different things.
218 00:24:41.240 ⇒ 00:24:44.869 Michele Altomare: And there’s times where, like, I’ll give one example. We had a shoot.
219 00:24:45.310 ⇒ 00:24:47.430 Michele Altomare: and then there’s the person inside the car.
220 00:24:47.730 ⇒ 00:24:51.660 Michele Altomare: the photographer, which, like, really knows that I use the camera and different things, and then, like
221 00:24:51.910 ⇒ 00:24:53.480 Michele Altomare: me and one other person.
222 00:24:53.970 ⇒ 00:24:56.889 Michele Altomare: But if I step into the photographer and I’m like, Oh.
223 00:24:57.000 ⇒ 00:25:00.659 Michele Altomare: for this campaign and a potential future campaign.
224 00:25:00.860 ⇒ 00:25:08.629 Michele Altomare: How would you shoot this? Or like? What type of staging and stuff would you use? And some photographers are really good with that? And others are just like
225 00:25:09.930 ⇒ 00:25:25.880 Michele Altomare: now that they don’t know how to do it, because it’s adjacent. But for the guy who’s like sitting in the car already doing the work he’s like, just give me a shot list so that he can focus on like what his very specific thing is. You see what I mean. And then it’s like creative director or producers role. They give him like the one pager sheet.
226 00:25:25.880 ⇒ 00:25:26.440 Hannah Wang: Oh!
227 00:25:26.763 ⇒ 00:25:30.650 Michele Altomare: Obviously, there’s like collaboration and so much overlap between all these things.
228 00:25:30.650 ⇒ 00:25:31.110 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
229 00:25:31.110 ⇒ 00:25:35.979 Michele Altomare: But honestly like I don’t know.
230 00:25:35.980 ⇒ 00:25:44.649 Michele Altomare: It stacks up like when it’s like, Oh, what do you think about this? And like not everybody has to have a say all the time. I think sometimes when people think they’re like being inclusive.
231 00:25:44.900 ⇒ 00:25:51.160 Michele Altomare: it’s actually with really good intention. But sometimes, like the other person doesn’t even want to contribute ideas because they’re focused on what they want to be doing. Does that make sense.
232 00:25:51.160 ⇒ 00:25:59.439 Hannah Wang: Hmm, yeah, I mean, I think I definitely fall into the oh, just kind of like, tell me what to do, and I’ll like, create it like that’s
233 00:25:59.940 ⇒ 00:26:27.700 Hannah Wang: like I like. Honestly, I don’t wanna focus so much on like the direction. And just like the grand vision, like, I’m not naturally like good at that, like Utam, is so good at that, you know he has, like a clear vision, clear scope like this is the North star that we want to head towards. I it’s a struggle for me honestly to like come up with, like all these strategies and stuff like if I was told. But if I was told like, Oh, this is the scope that we’re doing. Design this, and these are the requirements like I would love to.
234 00:26:28.080 ⇒ 00:26:43.650 Hannah Wang: I love, I love that. But honestly, that’s not like how the real world works, you know. Like, even as as a dev in my previous company, like, yeah, thinking about moving up the ladder and being promoted like you have to think about like larger scales and more abstract things, and that’s just the nature of
235 00:26:44.220 ⇒ 00:26:45.630 Hannah Wang: you know, not
236 00:26:45.740 ⇒ 00:26:50.829 Hannah Wang: staying like. Not that I like want to move up the ladder or anything. I don’t know why I’m talking about this.
237 00:26:50.830 ⇒ 00:26:55.667 Michele Altomare: No, it’s but it’s super. It’s super fair, and I totally like I get you.
238 00:26:56.060 ⇒ 00:26:56.440 Hannah Wang: Okay.
239 00:26:56.520 ⇒ 00:26:58.340 Michele Altomare: It’s it’s it’s very real.
240 00:27:01.060 ⇒ 00:27:01.750 Michele Altomare: No, that makes sense.
241 00:27:01.750 ⇒ 00:27:23.439 Hannah Wang: Yeah. So, for example, like, I don’t know if this will help the company at all. But I enjoy like just personally, I love creating like on Instagram, like stories just like crafting it and like being creative in that way. I’m also just like creating yeah, even, for example, like creating an Instagram carousel like I would love to just like play around with it. And
242 00:27:24.074 ⇒ 00:27:27.549 Hannah Wang: just create content that way, or even like
243 00:27:27.710 ⇒ 00:27:34.689 Hannah Wang: editing videos. For example, like I really enjoy personally, like I just I purchased like final cut, like 2 months ago, and I enjoy.
244 00:27:34.690 ⇒ 00:27:36.050 Michele Altomare: I like creating.
245 00:27:36.050 ⇒ 00:27:38.710 Hannah Wang: Videos and doing all that stuff. And
246 00:27:39.140 ⇒ 00:27:43.049 Hannah Wang: I would say, like, just like the influencer type of stuff
247 00:27:43.250 ⇒ 00:28:07.690 Hannah Wang: like the type of stuff that influences do I feel like I would enjoy doing just like creating for, like the social media aspect of everything. I don’t know. It’s just fun being creative in that way. So that’s like, I guess my real answer like, that’s what I enjoy doing. Like the nitty gritty. Just like being creative, like moving things around and creating stories, carousel polls like videos. Whatever.
248 00:28:07.690 ⇒ 00:28:12.819 Michele Altomare: Does that overlap or like next to like the directive piece where it’s like.
249 00:28:14.510 ⇒ 00:28:17.260 Michele Altomare: I know, that’s like a lot more colorful. And
250 00:28:17.800 ⇒ 00:28:22.539 Michele Altomare: it’s it’s different than like writing copy for a figma. One pager, right? But
251 00:28:24.810 ⇒ 00:28:26.659 Michele Altomare: I’m trying to think of how to phrase this.
252 00:28:28.200 ⇒ 00:28:33.440 Michele Altomare: It’s like in the best flow in the good flow. Best flow, good flow that you would see. Is it like
253 00:28:34.050 ⇒ 00:28:39.849 Michele Altomare: a creative brief comes in with, like the raw information? And then it’s up to you how to present it
254 00:28:39.970 ⇒ 00:28:45.800 Michele Altomare: like how the layouts, how it like the colors, the structure. See what I mean, or do you want that?
255 00:28:46.480 ⇒ 00:28:48.320 Michele Altomare: And then you just want to crank it
256 00:28:48.640 ⇒ 00:28:55.500 Michele Altomare: in the video editor. If it’s a video in adobe, if it’s like a static, you see what I mean.
257 00:28:56.570 ⇒ 00:29:08.269 Hannah Wang: I mean, since we already have, like the colors. And our palette and branding and all that stuff like, I don’t really need to think too hard about. Oh, what color to use here, because I can just pick from like primary, secondary, like colors.
258 00:29:08.410 ⇒ 00:29:15.620 Hannah Wang: But I think the ideal process like, if we had all the people that we needed like we would have
259 00:29:16.470 ⇒ 00:29:45.110 Hannah Wang: like, I don’t think design people should focus on copy like that’s not like what we’re. That’s just like extra bandwidth that we need to be able to do the work that we actually pay to do. And I know everything overlaps. But like, I think, the ideal process is like, Oh, we have, like a outline of stuff and requirements that we want from, like our client, or whoever that comes in like some Ryan, for example, creates like the copy.
260 00:29:45.582 ⇒ 00:30:13.670 Hannah Wang: That’s in line with the tone voice, branding of Brainforge, and whatever all of that comes to the the designers. And we just focus on like the layout and the design, and the and just how it looks like the visuals of everything, and then that already would be 90% complete because the copy is already done, the designs done, and we just need the green light from Blue Tom. But right now, like everything is so inter like the designer just has to do everything.
261 00:30:13.670 ⇒ 00:30:25.920 Hannah Wang: I guess. And I I guess before this, like we haven’t really looped in Ryan on like the decks or the one pages that we made. So maybe that’s like the change that we make, and rely on him to
262 00:30:26.150 ⇒ 00:30:26.880 Hannah Wang: like
263 00:30:27.130 ⇒ 00:30:33.340 Hannah Wang: come up with the copy for the one pagers and the designs and all that stuff. But yeah, I think
264 00:30:33.720 ⇒ 00:30:44.309 Hannah Wang: I don’t know if this is wrong, but ideally, everything would be kind of like compartmentalized. And each person can just focus on doing what they’re like good at and know how to do. Because I think.
265 00:30:45.979 ⇒ 00:30:58.359 Hannah Wang: yeah, I mean, I could pick up Co copy. And like, I can learn all this stuff. And it would be hard in like the initial X number of months. But yeah, it would make me more efficient because I wouldn’t have to like reach out to other people for copy and stuff, so
266 00:30:58.490 ⇒ 00:31:03.679 Hannah Wang: I don’t know like I’m open to everything like anything. I guess.
267 00:31:04.110 ⇒ 00:31:07.160 Michele Altomare: No, it makes it makes sense so like what I hear you saying is.
268 00:31:08.120 ⇒ 00:31:20.760 Michele Altomare: it’s helpful when you can like specialize in what you’re doing, because I don’t know how it works for you when it’s like you’re creating. It’s like, Have you heard of the manager? Well, I guess it’s I gotta jump in a sec. But manager schedules that people have. Have you heard of that?
269 00:31:20.760 ⇒ 00:31:21.350 Hannah Wang: No.
270 00:31:21.350 ⇒ 00:31:25.520 Michele Altomare: I’ll find it somewhere, and then I’ll send it to you tomorrow. I’ll send it to. I guess we have emails.
271 00:31:26.010 ⇒ 00:31:34.979 Michele Altomare: but it’s like makers want to work in like an 8 h block uninterrupted. The manager doesn’t care if he’s like 10 min things as he just jumps and goes.
272 00:31:37.220 ⇒ 00:31:45.409 Michele Altomare: That’s a really marketable thing that people and it does well on Linkedin, because it’s like, Oh, my God! Look at this novel thing! But I think there’s a lot of truth to that
273 00:31:46.050 ⇒ 00:31:48.820 Michele Altomare: And in certain creative teams you often see people
274 00:31:49.180 ⇒ 00:31:55.520 Michele Altomare: again. I think it’s well intentioned, but it’s like you. You bring in a ton of different opinions to try to get like feedback loops.
275 00:31:55.970 ⇒ 00:32:00.069 Michele Altomare: But for a lot of makers like they just wanna make their thing. And then.
276 00:32:00.070 ⇒ 00:32:00.500 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
277 00:32:00.500 ⇒ 00:32:09.080 Michele Altomare: It’s a 2 way door. But like once the thing comes in, it’s like, Okay, Anna’s gonna cook on this for a couple of hours or like a day, and then it goes to the next person. Doesn’t mean it can’t come back, but it’s like.
278 00:32:10.220 ⇒ 00:32:14.390 Michele Altomare: Let that piece go I do think like the copywriting stuff
279 00:32:15.350 ⇒ 00:32:18.919 Michele Altomare: it can make you like a really you like, I used to overlook
280 00:32:19.210 ⇒ 00:32:21.100 Michele Altomare: writing because I thought it was like.
281 00:32:22.470 ⇒ 00:32:29.490 Michele Altomare: I don’t know as an engineer, I look down on writers, but then it’s like you start to realize, like people that are really effective and articulate with words.
282 00:32:31.570 ⇒ 00:32:37.130 Michele Altomare: It can like flow into so many other things. Now I’m kind of rambling. But
283 00:32:38.420 ⇒ 00:32:40.230 Michele Altomare: no, this was really helpful, like
284 00:32:40.380 ⇒ 00:32:43.729 Michele Altomare: I even told Utam there wasn’t a super fixed agenda. But
285 00:32:43.910 ⇒ 00:32:46.764 Michele Altomare: I’ve jumped on with like a ton of creative teams.
286 00:32:47.590 ⇒ 00:32:52.180 Michele Altomare: And it’s cool to like. See how these things play together. Is there anything you recommend me asking?
287 00:32:53.350 ⇒ 00:32:54.250 Michele Altomare: I think.
288 00:32:54.250 ⇒ 00:32:54.900 Hannah Wang: Ryan.
289 00:32:54.900 ⇒ 00:33:01.559 Michele Altomare: 3 30. I’m on the call next with Ann. But is there anything you recommend asking her? You said she’s mostly on like the site
290 00:33:01.950 ⇒ 00:33:02.590 Michele Altomare: figma.
291 00:33:02.590 ⇒ 00:33:10.890 Hannah Wang: She’s on. Like all design. She’s like handling all the design stuff. She’s mostly design. She doesn’t do a ton of like she’s just the designer.
292 00:33:11.210 ⇒ 00:33:11.840 Michele Altomare: Yeah.
293 00:33:12.270 ⇒ 00:33:15.760 Hannah Wang: I think maybe asking her. Hmm.
294 00:33:21.160 ⇒ 00:33:23.589 Hannah Wang: I can’t really think off the top of my head.
295 00:33:24.610 ⇒ 00:33:25.336 Michele Altomare: It’s okay.
296 00:33:27.023 ⇒ 00:33:30.359 Michele Altomare: Yeah. But no, no, this is.
297 00:33:30.360 ⇒ 00:33:40.719 Hannah Wang: Hopefully, you have more context, though I think the call with me was just like a general like overview like. Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to ask you. Like all these questions I have in the Doc. But.
298 00:33:40.950 ⇒ 00:33:42.380 Michele Altomare: Yeah, I think it was just good.
299 00:33:43.540 ⇒ 00:33:44.810 Hannah Wang: Overview. Yeah.
300 00:33:44.810 ⇒ 00:33:52.225 Michele Altomare: This is all. It was almost like, he’s like, Yeah, you jump on with like Hannah. First, st she’s pretty on top of everything. So you gave great context.
301 00:33:52.810 ⇒ 00:33:56.120 Hannah Wang: Hopefully. I’m on top. I fake it till you make it, you know. So.
302 00:33:56.725 ⇒ 00:34:07.479 Michele Altomare: That’s right. Cool. I’m gonna shoot. I guess I’ll message Anna in a moment, or I’ll just jump on with her. But I’ll probably slack you guys later today or tonight
303 00:34:07.600 ⇒ 00:34:08.740 Michele Altomare: and then roll from there.
304 00:34:09.210 ⇒ 00:34:13.130 Hannah Wang: Yeah, nice chatting with you. Thank you for letting me, I guess, rant or ramble.
305 00:34:13.139 ⇒ 00:34:22.849 Michele Altomare: No, no, I’m gonna find I’m gonna find that maker manager article and send it to. I’ll find you on slack and send it your way, because I think it’s cool. Once you put it into words. But
306 00:34:23.389 ⇒ 00:34:26.569 Michele Altomare: alright! I’ll jump on with this good to meet you.
307 00:34:27.050 ⇒ 00:34:27.679 Hannah Wang: Bye.