Meeting Title: Personal Meeting Room Date: 2025-02-25 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Uttam Kumaran


WEBVTT

1 00:00:35.300 00:00:36.470 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Wish!

2 00:00:43.640 00:00:45.100 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! How’s it going.

3 00:00:46.266 00:00:47.500 Awaish Kumar: Go through.

4 00:00:47.970 00:00:51.599 Uttam Kumaran: Good. How is it? How is it traveling and everything.

5 00:00:53.080 00:00:54.230 Awaish Kumar: Sorry.

6 00:00:54.450 00:00:57.539 Uttam Kumaran: I was traveling back, and everything like getting settled there.

7 00:00:58.310 00:01:04.260 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, it’s it was okay. I had a home here. So it was not that

8 00:01:04.450 00:01:06.700 Awaish Kumar: problem problematic. But yeah, it’s

9 00:01:08.120 00:01:11.639 Awaish Kumar: it’s it’s I’m doing doing good so far.

10 00:01:11.640 00:01:14.089 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, what’s been the challenge.

11 00:01:16.760 00:01:17.870 Awaish Kumar: Huh!

12 00:01:18.720 00:01:21.149 Awaish Kumar: I don’t know like this is a.

13 00:01:21.720 00:01:26.321 Awaish Kumar: After a long time we are back to Pakistan. So it’s

14 00:01:27.090 00:01:40.260 Awaish Kumar: we are just getting used to to the different like we have been. It’s very busy here the the. You cannot go outside like in the city. It’s it’s dense.

15 00:01:40.630 00:01:48.219 Awaish Kumar: very hard to reach back home on time if I’m out. So yeah, it was bit more

16 00:01:49.002 00:01:53.459 Awaish Kumar: less crowdy in the in the in the Denmark, also in the Canada.

17 00:01:53.540 00:01:54.110 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay.

18 00:01:54.930 00:02:03.249 Awaish Kumar: Bit more organized. For here it’s kind of these things are kind of different. So yeah.

19 00:02:03.720 00:02:09.059 Uttam Kumaran: What do you think? What do you think? You’re gonna do like what? What’s your goal? Longer term.

20 00:02:11.324 00:02:17.869 Awaish Kumar: Yeah. Long term. I am planning to go back like I have been planning to go back to Europe

21 00:02:20.429 00:02:25.239 Awaish Kumar: to like do masters or something.

22 00:02:25.240 00:02:25.700 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

23 00:02:26.510 00:02:32.417 Awaish Kumar: And yeah from there, like then, like, just start from there and

24 00:02:33.495 00:02:39.030 Awaish Kumar: but right now, I’m just trying to like, have some few months here.

25 00:02:39.030 00:02:39.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

26 00:02:39.510 00:02:43.599 Awaish Kumar: Relax and reflect on like, and plan out the things.

27 00:02:43.900 00:02:46.820 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, really. Great. Okay. What? What? What? Masters?

28 00:02:49.708 00:02:55.919 Awaish Kumar: Like, obviously, I have experience in data engineering, I would go something, a mix of business

29 00:02:56.140 00:02:59.400 Awaish Kumar: and the data engineering world.

30 00:03:00.600 00:03:03.220 Awaish Kumar: So there are like lots of different.

31 00:03:03.400 00:03:07.990 Awaish Kumar: I’ve I’ve been trying to look at some masters in Germany where they are doing like

32 00:03:08.210 00:03:22.640 Awaish Kumar: there’s most like the the like kind of applied data science, where, in the, in the masters itself, we are doing a lot of work which is directly connected with the industry. So it’s kind of applied data science.

33 00:03:24.330 00:03:25.599 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, great, nice.

34 00:03:26.250 00:03:27.789 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’d be awesome.

35 00:03:28.930 00:03:39.569 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude, it’s good. It’s good to take a second reflect. I know it’s busy at even at work right now, but I think things will cool off a little bit on our side, and we’re

36 00:03:40.170 00:03:57.039 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna bring on. We have a bunch more clients that we just send proposals out to. And you know, ideally, I think maybe one or 2 of them will close. So we’re growing as well. So hope hopefully. I can support you, you know, as you make that decision. But it’s been it’s been nice, really, having you on the team for sure.

37 00:04:00.660 00:04:02.140 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, so.

38 00:04:02.140 00:04:02.550 Uttam Kumaran: What do you.

39 00:04:02.550 00:04:03.539 Awaish Kumar: It has been.

40 00:04:04.060 00:04:04.880 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Go ahead.

41 00:04:05.930 00:04:12.300 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I think I thought I was saying that it was also nice to to be part of the team, and has been

42 00:04:13.910 00:04:17.859 Awaish Kumar: Like the good great experience working with you.

43 00:04:19.140 00:04:26.319 Uttam Kumaran: What do you? What do you think? So far? You know, it’s probably what it’s been, maybe 3 weeks or one month, like, how do you feel so far?

44 00:04:28.050 00:04:42.049 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, the the like, the other like the it I have never. I have never worked in this setting before. Kind of where, like the kind of we are working based on hourly based. And then

45 00:04:42.806 00:04:43.860 Awaish Kumar: how you

46 00:04:44.656 00:05:02.130 Awaish Kumar: collaborate. And yeah, it has been like you, you mentioned that, like some like, I have worked on finance projects normally part time where you you get the requirements and and maybe like, it’s like.

47 00:05:02.630 00:05:16.150 Awaish Kumar: not the all the requirements, like a a big picture where you can plan out a roadmap and then work on it. But I’ve never worked in a setting where you are on call kind of things like where urgent things are coming in.

48 00:05:16.290 00:05:21.589 Awaish Kumar: And we are answering things. And so, yeah, that’s why, I like

49 00:05:22.230 00:05:27.150 Awaish Kumar: it was a different experience for me. Working like that.

50 00:05:29.444 00:05:45.980 Awaish Kumar: so yeah, that was the only thing like, normally in initially like, we, we know, like we have to do this modeling work of, I go in and work on that thing. And I know, like the next day I will report the progress. I’m not like

51 00:05:46.894 00:05:55.690 Awaish Kumar: and in in the full time work I have been doing that like, I know this is my working hours, and and I know these are something

52 00:05:56.383 00:06:11.229 Awaish Kumar: the responsibilities. But here I’m I was a bit like I don’t know how. How would I have managed it? Like how to like, if I want to work on a different hours, how do I manage

53 00:06:11.420 00:06:16.569 Awaish Kumar: and if like, if something urgent happens. Like if I if I

54 00:06:16.810 00:06:24.369 Awaish Kumar: maybe try to go away from a laptop, it’s it’s a bit difficult, because I cannot like

55 00:06:24.800 00:06:29.150 Awaish Kumar: move, because, like it’s in, there is, there can be something urgent.

56 00:06:29.330 00:06:29.970 Awaish Kumar: And

57 00:06:30.830 00:06:44.939 Awaish Kumar: yeah. And I also not sure how you are handling it with clients like before in, we have been working. So we we share the daily insights with the customers clients, for example. And then we get the feedback.

58 00:06:45.060 00:06:50.080 Awaish Kumar: And normally we have 24 h time, like like, do they.

59 00:06:50.080 00:06:50.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

60 00:06:50.510 00:06:56.120 Awaish Kumar: Like that 24 h span. It’s not like like we get feedback and try to work on that

61 00:06:56.310 00:07:00.769 Awaish Kumar: immediately. And like like, we are not like

62 00:07:01.230 00:07:18.299 Awaish Kumar: the short deadlines where? Yeah, okay, we will give it in 1 h, and then we take 3 h like it. It’s a bad if if we say like, okay, we, we can reflect it on in in 3 h, and we we and sometimes we, deliver it in 1 h, it will be a positive thing.

63 00:07:18.650 00:07:19.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

64 00:07:19.000 00:07:28.799 Awaish Kumar: Like vice versa, will be negative, like if we commit 1 h, and then it takes 4 h. Then it’s also like for the brain folds. It’s it’s not a

65 00:07:29.617 00:07:33.989 Awaish Kumar: like like it won’t, will not reflect the positive image.

66 00:07:34.700 00:07:40.840 Uttam Kumaran: No, you’re you’re totally right, like we. Our slas are not good enough right now. The problem, really, the problem is is like.

67 00:07:41.310 00:07:48.009 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a growing company. So really, we only had 2 A’s, me and one other person.

68 00:07:48.160 00:08:00.980 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s hard in a consulting business. It’s hard because we don’t have like Vc funding, right? So I sort of have to know that the money is coming in in order to basically go higher. And that’s a

69 00:08:01.230 00:08:02.100 Uttam Kumaran: that’s

70 00:08:02.810 00:08:27.439 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the challenge. You know. And that’s the challenge that we are we are dealing with in this next phase. Right? Because, to give you context, we we were only at like, you know, 3 or 4 clients. And now we’re at 7 or 8 clients, and we will soon be at like 1012 clients. So that’s all happened within 2 months. And you know, I’ve hired people in the past, but it’s a tough.

71 00:08:27.620 00:08:51.029 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like to go from 2 to like almost 5 on the Ae team, and that speed and then try to get. You know, people like you that are that are good and that know what they’re doing. It’s hard, and of course, like the hard part is actually, I think, one finding great people, but also making sure that you feel supported. And the work isn’t like insane. I think that’s the piece that we’re

72 00:08:51.230 00:08:54.339 Uttam Kumaran: fixing. The second piece, which is, how do I?

73 00:08:54.560 00:08:58.909 Uttam Kumaran: How do I build redundancy over all the teams. And how do I start to

74 00:08:59.070 00:09:01.340 Uttam Kumaran: make things a little bit slower?

75 00:09:01.480 00:09:19.589 Uttam Kumaran: And how do I help aid with better requirements? So kind of 2 big changes there. One. We’re gonna have one more ae join, and that’ll sort of be the sort of end for a little bit of like ae, so that’ll that’ll ensure that we at least have one person on every client.

76 00:09:20.930 00:09:41.419 Uttam Kumaran: The second thing is, we’re hiring like a formal Pm. Who we’re really really excited about I think I’m okay. But I, my time is really limited. So we’re bringing on someone to their whole job is just to do. Pm, I think you’re gonna find that to be extremely tremendous for

77 00:09:41.640 00:10:00.570 Uttam Kumaran: balancing work and delivery, and and that so I appreciate you know, sort of being patient for that and then the second thing is, you know, we’re gonna start to roll out. And I’m I’m gonna talk to the broader engineering team about this is we’re gonna start to roll out incentive plans.

78 00:10:00.730 00:10:07.136 Uttam Kumaran: So for Brainforge engineers that are full time for folks that are

79 00:10:07.960 00:10:32.449 Uttam Kumaran: for folks that are able to take on more than one client, and they’re able to handle escalations. We’re gonna start to give out bonuses. And that’s 1 thing that I’m gonna share with the engineering team hopefully within the next 30 days is what that structure is gonna look like. And that way it’s not. I don’t want people to just take on more work, and then sort of

80 00:10:33.070 00:10:40.740 Uttam Kumaran: it is what it is. I want people to be able to make more money, you know, if if they do that

81 00:10:41.112 00:10:45.749 Uttam Kumaran: and that way, we can support people more. And there’s actually like an incentive to do that.

82 00:10:46.257 00:10:59.602 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s 1 thing there and then. The other thing is, we’re gonna be looking to move everybody. That’s sort of part time as we get more work in to full time so ideally, I think we should be able to convert

83 00:11:00.130 00:11:06.419 Uttam Kumaran: your hourly into more like fixed salary, and that way it kind of saves you some time on tracking hours and things like that.

84 00:11:08.895 00:11:14.060 Uttam Kumaran: but we’re working on that. So again, the some of the decisions that will probably happen in the next 30 days.

85 00:11:16.250 00:11:21.219 Awaish Kumar: Okay, I like my, my thing was more like, not just for me. It was more

86 00:11:21.510 00:11:24.540 Awaish Kumar: like for the, for a broader perspective. Also like

87 00:11:25.630 00:11:28.709 Awaish Kumar: like this, this immediate

88 00:11:29.840 00:11:32.720 Awaish Kumar: solving like, okay, we will solve it in a.

89 00:11:32.930 00:11:33.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

90 00:11:33.450 00:11:37.799 Awaish Kumar: Minutes, or something like that, even committing to that the client to the client is.

91 00:11:37.970 00:11:40.590 Awaish Kumar: I’m not sure how it’s like it is. It’s.

92 00:11:40.590 00:11:47.039 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s like, it’s actually not that we committed it to the client. It’s that we are late on all deadlines.

93 00:11:47.720 00:11:53.449 Uttam Kumaran: So the problem is is like we had. We had past deadlines.

94 00:11:54.161 00:11:58.860 Uttam Kumaran: You know that other people on the team were on the hook for, and they dropped the ball.

95 00:11:58.970 00:12:06.270 Uttam Kumaran: And so you and Kyle are walking into a situation where we sort of lost trust with the client.

96 00:12:06.420 00:12:09.930 Uttam Kumaran: which is hard because you guys bear

97 00:12:10.160 00:12:13.299 Uttam Kumaran: the brunt of the effort. However.

98 00:12:13.440 00:12:16.159 Uttam Kumaran: that being said like, I want one

99 00:12:16.420 00:12:26.540 Uttam Kumaran: like, I mean, I want you guys to get paid. If you guys are working. And second, it’s just the situation we’re in right now. So partly, we’re gonna right size and make sure that

100 00:12:26.830 00:12:33.470 Uttam Kumaran: things are. We’re not Prom. We’re we’re actually not promising same day. It’s that the stuff we’re doing was due 2 weeks ago.

101 00:12:33.740 00:12:34.550 Uttam Kumaran: and.

102 00:12:34.550 00:12:35.210 Awaish Kumar: Okay.

103 00:12:35.560 00:12:40.399 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I basically had to frantically try to find people to help. Because.

104 00:12:40.840 00:12:43.659 Uttam Kumaran: as you know, we have other part time. People

105 00:12:43.830 00:12:55.919 Uttam Kumaran: like on the analyst side. And we just like totally dropped the ball. So I had to take over. Basically, that’s the situation like we’re, I totally hear you. There’s nothing. We’re promising same data clients.

106 00:12:56.080 00:13:05.069 Uttam Kumaran: Probably. I believe me. It’s all the stuff we’re doing. That that’s frantic is just because we’re already we’re late on it, you know. So.

107 00:13:06.780 00:13:15.560 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like that. That is actually like the only things we we initially also like, discuss this, that pro

108 00:13:16.431 00:13:18.439 Awaish Kumar: like, like, you get the

109 00:13:18.961 00:13:30.899 Awaish Kumar: escalation like I, I come in and after in the morning, I see, like you did a lot of lots of conversation and lots of things in the middle of the night like

110 00:13:31.130 00:13:32.450 Awaish Kumar: hinder.

111 00:13:32.860 00:13:41.539 Awaish Kumar: I’m not sure like then. Okay, where to start now. And like. And there’s a lot of things like it’s urgent. Kind of like the

112 00:13:42.268 00:13:51.420 Awaish Kumar: that’s good, like the the very. It seems like it’s very urgent, and it should be done. Now. Now, yeah, then I I just wanted to be

113 00:13:51.670 00:13:56.663 Awaish Kumar: okay, like, maybe how we manage that.

114 00:13:59.460 00:14:05.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think. 2 things, one for Eden and Javi. We are we? We just like

115 00:14:05.350 00:14:18.209 Uttam Kumaran: we’re behind on. So everything is sort of urgent until we fix that. The second thing is the work you’re doing for Eden, which is setting up the marts is really good. Right? I’m I’m taking on some of the stuff that’s up more upfront.

116 00:14:19.870 00:14:28.629 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’re gonna basically try to. We have to work on both work streams, right? Because the client needs something tomorrow. But then also, we want to build up the March structure.

117 00:14:28.810 00:14:33.599 Uttam Kumaran: It’s gonna be tough until we sort of have a Pm. Come in and sort of really

118 00:14:33.730 00:14:35.969 Uttam Kumaran: organize all the tickets.

119 00:14:36.752 00:14:40.610 Uttam Kumaran: You know. And so I probably need another.

120 00:14:40.790 00:14:44.467 Uttam Kumaran: I need another 2 to 4 weeks to sort of figure that out.

121 00:14:45.540 00:14:50.099 Uttam Kumaran: I think things will get a little bit better on Eden side, like it’s already getting better.

122 00:14:52.210 00:14:54.227 Uttam Kumaran: But I need a little bit more time.

123 00:14:56.150 00:15:02.762 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that’s okay, like, I’m I’m not. I’m just trying to like what to say.

124 00:15:03.460 00:15:09.620 Awaish Kumar: make it a like kind of understanding between us, like how it goes.

125 00:15:09.620 00:15:13.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, no, I I trust you. And and I

126 00:15:13.740 00:15:19.129 Uttam Kumaran: it’s. It’s a sense of urgency that like definitely freaks everybody out. So I’m definitely aware

127 00:15:19.460 00:15:23.070 Uttam Kumaran: it’s it’s tough, like we’re in the client service business. And so

128 00:15:23.590 00:15:32.930 Uttam Kumaran: you’re walking into situation. You’re you’re just walking into a rough situation. However, like these are, gonna these are just 2 clients. We’re gonna have more clients.

129 00:15:33.240 00:15:42.999 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna fix the Pm problem. So like, I see, I’ve seen this next 4 weeks as moving us towards more like stable environment.

130 00:15:45.750 00:15:50.560 Awaish Kumar: Yeah. Like. The 1. 1 more thing about this getting requirements from

131 00:15:50.680 00:16:03.300 Awaish Kumar: the analyst to to us is also like, kind of very for the Ltv, for example. It was really like the difficult because

132 00:16:03.700 00:16:10.820 Awaish Kumar: where we are getting marks based, like we, we discuss something, the requirements. And we are building march based on that.

133 00:16:11.423 00:16:37.766 Awaish Kumar: For example, one of the examples I can share is that like, you mentioned that when we discuss Ltv, that. Okay, we need 1st order product for a customer, the customer in his very 1st order, what product it bought, and then we want to calculate the total revenue generated from that product and customer like in over a lifetime. That is ltv, okay? Then,

134 00:16:38.430 00:16:44.209 Awaish Kumar: the way we it was being tested with Kerry shared with us

135 00:16:44.360 00:16:53.759 Awaish Kumar: it it was doing kind of different thing, like because of the that that adult queries in the adult queries. If you just put a filter 1st on a product.

136 00:16:54.060 00:16:59.179 Awaish Kumar: and then you say, Okay, right now, get me the 1st product of the customer.

137 00:16:59.760 00:17:11.620 Awaish Kumar: So it’s actually not a 1st product for 1st order of a customer. It is the 1st order of a customer for this specific product, because the data is already filtered out for that product.

138 00:17:12.000 00:17:12.835 Awaish Kumar: So.

139 00:17:13.670 00:17:15.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, no, you’re right. You’re right.

140 00:17:15.910 00:17:17.619 Uttam Kumaran: Filter was wrong. Yeah, yeah.

141 00:17:19.510 00:17:30.880 Awaish Kumar: Because now we are just taking data for that product and get the 1st order. So obviously, even the customer ordered before for any other product. That was his actual 1st order.

142 00:17:31.140 00:17:38.429 Awaish Kumar: Right? So this kind of these adult testing also creates confusion. So I’m not sure how to.

143 00:17:38.430 00:17:42.379 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I mean we should have. We should have had an hour meeting where we just figured it out.

144 00:17:43.530 00:17:51.050 Uttam Kumaran: The problem we had is like, Beau is West Coast. Me and Robert, our entire day is booked like.

145 00:17:51.980 00:17:56.640 Uttam Kumaran: cause it’s we’re. It’s just like that’s just the way it is. So.

146 00:17:56.640 00:18:04.030 Awaish Kumar: I. I try to come up with a process with excel sheets like where I just put some sample data and try to run some scenarios.

147 00:18:04.030 00:18:04.939 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

148 00:18:04.940 00:18:09.560 Awaish Kumar: Ask. Ask Robert to look. Okay. Look at it. If if that’s what you want.

149 00:18:09.730 00:18:15.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think that’s fine. Look, I I promise you, like, this is not

150 00:18:15.500 00:18:27.129 Uttam Kumaran: the long term situation. This is the worst. It’s gonna be every past day is the worst. It’ll be, I promise you. I worked in data. This is like, kind of crazy. But

151 00:18:27.690 00:18:36.929 Uttam Kumaran: the benefit is like, I think we’re gonna build a great company. And I want to pay people more than you’re gonna get anywhere else. So I think it’s worth

152 00:18:37.090 00:18:38.230 Uttam Kumaran: the challenge.

153 00:18:38.410 00:18:39.479 Uttam Kumaran: I also think, like.

154 00:18:40.123 00:18:45.270 Awaish Kumar: I have been in the startups. I have worked with startups. I know it’s it’s.

155 00:18:45.270 00:18:45.639 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, it.

156 00:18:45.640 00:18:54.781 Awaish Kumar: And I know it’s it’s sometimes you get the urgent request. It’s not a problem. I just want it to be a 2 way understanding. Not just

157 00:18:55.240 00:19:08.019 Awaish Kumar: like, if if sometimes things, obviously, you know, if everything is fast paced I’m also can miss something. So it should be a 2 way understanding of the situation.

158 00:19:08.020 00:19:17.519 Uttam Kumaran: Totally. So we’re always gonna so just like in in your past start environment, there’s gonna be 2 parties, right? So I never want the engineering team to feel like everyone’s 1 on one.

159 00:19:17.690 00:19:35.080 Uttam Kumaran: We are the engineering team, anything where you’re like uncomfortable. You can go through me. I’ll play defense. There’s also gonna be a client facing team. Right? You’re gonna have sales. You’re gonna have Pm’s. You’re gonna have, Robert. They are. Gonna they have to fight for their clients.

160 00:19:35.280 00:19:52.760 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s gonna be this conflict, no matter what it’s about, how we handle the conflict. Right? So one is. And this is actually a really good reminder is everyone you can expect that like, just if if something is getting inflated, or whatever just ping me and be like Yo, this is crazy

161 00:19:52.880 00:19:54.540 Uttam Kumaran: I got. I’ll have your back.

162 00:19:54.700 00:20:14.399 Uttam Kumaran: There’s I don’t. I’m not throwing you guys into the ocean and being like it’s oasis fault like I watch everything that happens. I know all the work that’s going on. Even if people are like this person’s not doing anything I’m like, I go and I see the Pr is coming. So don’t worry about that like, that’s what I can. That’s what I can really take on

163 00:20:15.320 00:20:18.649 Uttam Kumaran: in this next 30 day period. It’s gonna take

164 00:20:18.930 00:20:24.789 Uttam Kumaran: everybody to sort of be their own mini. Pm, and look, look at what the client needs.

165 00:20:25.200 00:20:36.639 Uttam Kumaran: and sort of break it down for us. Right? We went through the exercise yesterday. I think that was helpful. We’re gonna go through it again next Monday. I thought, I think that’s gonna be really helpful to sort of get the full roadmap.

166 00:20:37.520 00:20:41.040 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s gonna be a yeah. It’s gonna be a little bit difficult.

167 00:20:42.600 00:20:46.453 Awaish Kumar: Okay? And the yeah, one more thing I wanted to discuss about this.

168 00:20:47.130 00:20:50.900 Awaish Kumar: yeah, the the the cluster we are using.

169 00:20:50.900 00:20:51.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

170 00:20:51.310 00:20:52.450 Awaish Kumar: In the team.

171 00:20:52.700 00:20:55.133 Awaish Kumar: I am not sure like.

172 00:20:55.800 00:21:13.900 Awaish Kumar: it’s good. In generating like, for example, if we have an application, it’s it can can generate something which which has a feature and works. But in the data team I am not sure. Like. It. It generates a lot of reputations, some duplications.

173 00:21:14.070 00:21:40.009 Awaish Kumar: and like. If if a single thing can happen in a single city generates maybe 3 cities for that, and then it’s hard to debug like generating 1st time, code is okay. Like we give a command, it generates something. But when it comes to okay, when the escalation comes, then it becomes difficult. Okay, now, how to debug it? What’s happening if it’s broken.

174 00:21:40.790 00:21:44.099 Uttam Kumaran: No, we have to. We have to deprecate all that old, even code

175 00:21:45.640 00:21:47.519 Uttam Kumaran: as soon as we can basically

176 00:21:48.400 00:21:52.670 Uttam Kumaran: right and move it to our dim situation.

177 00:21:55.885 00:22:02.900 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah, like, in our like, in the joby, we have a shopify

178 00:22:03.130 00:22:07.760 Awaish Kumar: raw tables which are AI generated also. And there are a lot of columns.

179 00:22:08.310 00:22:13.329 Awaish Kumar: I cannot like read it like, what’s what’s that like? It’s it’s a whole lot.

180 00:22:13.330 00:22:19.840 Uttam Kumaran: It’s hard. It’s hard. Yeah. Yeah. But however we’ve done, we’ve modeled, shopify for several other clients.

181 00:22:19.960 00:22:26.860 Uttam Kumaran: So the one thing is, I want people to ask these questions out loud because we can help go share where

182 00:22:27.190 00:22:44.329 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve done past modeling where you can go. Reference that code right? Because this isn’t the 1st time we’ve seen all these sources. But however you’re right is that it’s a probably a wrong assumption for us to say, go figure it out, but I want to have that conversation back and forth like I expect the engineers to push back

183 00:22:44.430 00:22:50.599 Uttam Kumaran: and say, What is that like? I don’t have enough requirements for that. Things like that.

184 00:22:52.831 00:22:57.620 Awaish Kumar: Like, because I’m not just saying that the like

185 00:22:57.780 00:23:00.590 Awaish Kumar: I’m I’ve also worked with uncertain requirements.

186 00:23:00.590 00:23:00.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

187 00:23:02.330 00:23:11.000 Awaish Kumar: The problem really is that if we generate something and then which which makes it difficult for the 1st time, it’s okay. When.

188 00:23:11.000 00:23:13.579 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, it’s gonna be. It’s gonna be hard to maintain. Yeah.

189 00:23:13.580 00:23:17.494 Awaish Kumar: And then like how this actually works. Because, like

190 00:23:18.398 00:23:28.160 Awaish Kumar: there are like hundreds of cities generated now, like, what’s happening where to figure out, just debug that it’s very hard in SQL. Like, you know that.

191 00:23:28.160 00:23:32.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, this is all helpful feedback.

192 00:23:32.690 00:23:35.439 Uttam Kumaran: What’s your, what’s the plan for today?

193 00:23:37.880 00:23:42.967 Awaish Kumar: I have worked on this customer support model for the Zendesk.

194 00:23:43.550 00:23:49.270 Awaish Kumar: I’ve been getting familiar with the all these tables and the fields from

195 00:23:50.170 00:23:53.227 Awaish Kumar: like I’m I’m I will be writing some

196 00:23:53.820 00:23:59.350 Awaish Kumar: escalating SQL. Models, Ray and like so for the yesterday I just worked on

197 00:23:59.630 00:24:08.730 Awaish Kumar: seeing what was was there, and what fields are there, how it can be modern and how like something like agent performance

198 00:24:08.910 00:24:16.010 Awaish Kumar: dashboards can be generated from there. And today I will be just writing a script for all of that.

199 00:24:16.140 00:24:17.670 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you can buy it.

200 00:24:17.810 00:24:27.789 Awaish Kumar: Like for me like today is like half now enough in the morning. So by the next day I I hope to complete this.

201 00:24:27.790 00:24:37.180 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah, just push a small pr, like, whatever you have, even if it’s small, get something out, because then they can start building the dashboard.

202 00:24:37.410 00:24:40.709 Uttam Kumaran: So even if we don’t get all of the metrics.

203 00:24:42.060 00:24:43.009 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, it’s out.

204 00:24:43.010 00:24:44.069 Uttam Kumaran: So should be one

205 00:24:44.570 00:24:50.540 Uttam Kumaran: that way. I can review it, too, and then I can. I can review the big Pr, and then I can review the incremental changes.

206 00:24:52.750 00:24:56.699 Awaish Kumar: Okay? And yeah, I I was more like it was, just understand.

207 00:24:56.950 00:25:03.219 Awaish Kumar: So what’s happening there? The definition of each fields on the Zendesk docs I have to check, like.

208 00:25:03.410 00:25:10.860 Awaish Kumar: for example, a users table in the Zendesk contains all 3 kinds of users, like customers, agents.

209 00:25:11.357 00:25:21.779 Awaish Kumar: and the admin. So from the single table like without the documentation, I don’t know. Like users, table has the just the customers, or if agents are also as users.

210 00:25:21.970 00:25:25.289 Uttam Kumaran: You have to now separate them out in separate dimensions.

211 00:25:25.450 00:25:29.410 Uttam Kumaran: So here, okay.

212 00:25:30.930 00:25:40.432 Uttam Kumaran: okay, amazing. Thank you so much. And I appreciate the feedback. Thank you for being honest. And yeah, we’re working hard. I know it’s really difficult. So

213 00:25:41.030 00:25:43.340 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying my best. Well, we’re gonna make it happen.

214 00:25:43.340 00:25:44.299 Awaish Kumar: I think it’s

215 00:25:44.750 00:25:52.369 Awaish Kumar: I think this is like the the open conversation is is much better. I have learned in the past, like if I just

216 00:25:52.640 00:26:05.460 Awaish Kumar: don’t say anything and and every and it gets escalations. And and like, it’s just that. Okay, you are like, it’s all your fault or things like that happens.

217 00:26:05.620 00:26:08.769 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I I totally agree. And like.

218 00:26:09.350 00:26:13.589 Uttam Kumaran: But again, the the people closest to the client are going to be

219 00:26:14.110 00:26:16.610 Uttam Kumaran: the most wire. It’s up to me

220 00:26:16.900 00:26:22.419 Uttam Kumaran: to cut that in half, and then to really tell you guys. But what’s the focus? So

221 00:26:22.660 00:26:27.460 Uttam Kumaran: if I can help more of that, just just message me and and I will, but I hear you on that.

222 00:26:29.170 00:26:30.290 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, okay.

223 00:26:31.350 00:26:33.989 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thanks, Aish. I’ll talk to you soon.

224 00:26:35.040 00:26:37.440 Awaish Kumar: Thank you. Talk to you right?