Meeting Title: Uttam_Nico Date: 2025-02-24 Meeting participants: Nicolas Sucari, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:03:34.400 ⇒ 00:03:35.430 Uttam Kumaran: Handicap.
2 00:03:39.000 ⇒ 00:03:39.930 Nicolas Sucari: Hey? You, Tom?
3 00:03:40.130 ⇒ 00:03:40.820 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
4 00:03:40.960 ⇒ 00:03:42.520 Uttam Kumaran: How are you? How are you feeling.
5 00:03:43.480 ⇒ 00:03:48.480 Nicolas Sucari: I’m fine. But yeah, this this weekend and those 2 days were a bit tough
6 00:03:49.023 ⇒ 00:03:57.020 Nicolas Sucari: so. But everything is fine. I mean, I’m just I’m gonna wait for the results these couple of weeks. But everything is fine. Yeah.
7 00:03:58.220 ⇒ 00:03:59.050 Nicolas Sucari: cool. Are you.
8 00:03:59.050 ⇒ 00:04:18.159 Uttam Kumaran: I guess. Yeah, I’m good. I think I guess I’ll sort of go right to it. So one, yeah, I think, basically, we’re probably we’re like, pretty close to like, I’m not sure whether we’re gonna end up getting the job renewal. And so we’re kind of catching up with some stuff there and on the Eden work. So I don’t know. I think
9 00:04:18.649 ⇒ 00:04:27.700 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s just still been kind of a struggle to try to get everything we need. I think part of it is, our is sort of on me and Robert. I don’t think we were like
10 00:04:28.030 ⇒ 00:04:34.579 Uttam Kumaran: extremely clear on what we wanted. I also just think it’s been sort of struggle to get.
11 00:04:35.160 ⇒ 00:04:41.649 Uttam Kumaran: Come clarity over to, you know, on for Joby, especially on like
12 00:04:41.940 ⇒ 00:04:45.939 Uttam Kumaran: just what what the timeline is on everything, and sort of what are the core?
13 00:04:46.416 ⇒ 00:04:54.959 Uttam Kumaran: You know, tasks and making sure that things get out. So I think at this time I think I’m probably just gonna take over and start doing.
14 00:04:55.100 ⇒ 00:04:59.649 Uttam Kumaran: You know, the Pm. Work for the for the data? Probably across all clients.
15 00:05:01.100 ⇒ 00:05:03.319 Uttam Kumaran: I I don’t. I don’t know if we
16 00:05:03.490 ⇒ 00:05:06.289 Uttam Kumaran: I think we probably could have done a couple of things better. But
17 00:05:06.540 ⇒ 00:05:12.069 Uttam Kumaran: like at this point, it’s probably like what what I’ll what I have to do, just to make sure we get some things out.
18 00:05:12.575 ⇒ 00:05:16.159 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess I wanted to pause there and sort of
19 00:05:16.930 ⇒ 00:05:19.179 Uttam Kumaran: get your feedback. Make sure that like.
20 00:05:19.660 ⇒ 00:05:21.669 Uttam Kumaran: of course, I know, like you.
21 00:05:22.060 ⇒ 00:05:29.140 Uttam Kumaran: you didn’t like intend for that to happen. But I just want to confirm that like you, you understand.
22 00:05:29.370 ⇒ 00:05:33.250 Uttam Kumaran: like, kind of what the issues were there and kind of get where we’re coming from.
23 00:05:34.790 ⇒ 00:05:43.559 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, okay, yeah. Obviously, I understand the issues. Obviously, I was not like my intention to reach these
24 00:05:43.820 ⇒ 00:06:00.490 Nicolas Sucari: like to this stage. Right I think like during the process. A lot of things changed since I think it was since when, since Robert joined and started to change how we were doing things. And maybe this happened because I never like felt
25 00:06:00.982 ⇒ 00:06:13.999 Nicolas Sucari: I don’t know. I feel that Robert doesn’t want me here actually, I feel that working with him was really difficult. He kind of ignoring, ignores me a lot and like trying to. I I tried
26 00:06:14.230 ⇒ 00:06:44.119 Nicolas Sucari: a lot to work towards having everything for Javi with him, but I was not like kind of receiving like the same from the other side. I think. I tried my best. Obviously I try to be aware of everything that was happening around, so that I can have, like the context on what were what was happening. But when when we started like splitting the stuff between engagement leader project management and stuff, I I had like no clarity on what was expected, for from my role. So I guess, like, that’s
27 00:06:44.260 ⇒ 00:07:01.079 Nicolas Sucari: why I struggled a lot. I think obviously it’s a lot on me. And and and I get it. But yeah, I think like, that’s my my only feedback is that I was not like understanding, and they asked a lot of questions. But I was like I had never clarity on what was expected
28 00:07:01.391 ⇒ 00:07:14.469 Nicolas Sucari: on my role, having the engagement leader like on the side and doing some other stuff right because he was. He was wanting me to engage with the client, and when I do that, then, like he criticized me, and just like
29 00:07:14.500 ⇒ 00:07:16.519 Nicolas Sucari: I don’t know I was not like
30 00:07:16.620 ⇒ 00:07:28.400 Nicolas Sucari: getting how he wanted to manage that relationship with the client. What wasn’t. What was that I needed to do for him? When he asked, Stuff! I try to deliver them to that to him. But yeah, I’m not sure.
31 00:07:29.310 ⇒ 00:07:36.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think part of part of the problem of this role is sort of like mind reading
32 00:07:36.886 ⇒ 00:07:39.073 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s tough, like,
33 00:07:40.180 ⇒ 00:07:46.320 Uttam Kumaran: you know, sort of couple of the things that I think we really needed to happen is one we needed a 3 month
34 00:07:47.080 ⇒ 00:07:49.000 Uttam Kumaran: roadmap for every client.
35 00:07:49.130 ⇒ 00:08:03.330 Uttam Kumaran: I think that was still one thing that we don’t have across any of the clients that like, you know, we’re we’re gonna really change. I think the second thing is. Yeah, I I don’t know. I don’t think we had. We gave much clarity on every week exactly what needs to happen. It was sort of just like.
36 00:08:03.440 ⇒ 00:08:07.140 Uttam Kumaran: make sure things get done on time. And it’s tough, like, I think.
37 00:08:08.210 ⇒ 00:08:20.229 Uttam Kumaran: like I’m able to handle. But I again, I kind of sort of see how these projects go, and I can sort of isolate. I think we lost a lot of time on like trying to figure out notion and try to figure out
38 00:08:20.390 ⇒ 00:08:25.920 Uttam Kumaran: just like all the project management processes for each client. We sort of always have like 5 things.
39 00:08:26.250 ⇒ 00:08:32.590 Uttam Kumaran: And so I don’t know. I I think we? We’re not, I think part of what’s happening is we’re moving from
40 00:08:32.690 ⇒ 00:08:36.220 Uttam Kumaran: sort of clients that are like full parts.
41 00:08:36.390 ⇒ 00:08:47.150 Uttam Kumaran: and they’re like kind of chill to clients that are. It’s like a lot more serious. And we sort of didn’t graduate to that point. We just we didn’t figure out exactly like what the roadblocks were
42 00:08:47.863 ⇒ 00:08:53.090 Uttam Kumaran: and at this point, like UN, unless we sort of get things figured out.
43 00:08:53.220 ⇒ 00:09:06.359 Uttam Kumaran: we’re we’re sort of like out of time, like I’m we’re just gonna start losing clients. So one is like, I just wanna make sure that clients get what they need. I don’t think we did a good job and sort of setting you up for success there.
44 00:09:06.897 ⇒ 00:09:11.339 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s also tough, like, I think what we needed was sort of a lot of
45 00:09:11.470 ⇒ 00:09:13.550 Uttam Kumaran: organization like looking at
46 00:09:14.090 ⇒ 00:09:23.520 Uttam Kumaran: the work you did for pool parts, looking at the work you did for Javi, and then sort of creating systems and frameworks, you know, across like having those that that work
47 00:09:23.670 ⇒ 00:09:28.590 Uttam Kumaran: meaning being able to say, Okay, we’ve done the same like 3 exercises
48 00:09:28.870 ⇒ 00:09:35.110 Uttam Kumaran: for for a bunch of clients. Let’s create a framework for processing these types of requests, things like that.
49 00:09:35.590 ⇒ 00:09:43.050 Uttam Kumaran: So that was like something. And then also, like, yeah, I just was kind of concerned about like how much time was going into it. I I think, like
50 00:09:43.750 ⇒ 00:10:00.510 Uttam Kumaran: I think, a lot of days we, me and Robert both both that sort of ask, like, what is the status of these items? And I know that there’s definitely engineers that were slow. But I sort of re architected my whole schedule now, and I’m talking to everyone every day, and I feel like a lot more clarity over where everything is.
51 00:10:00.680 ⇒ 00:10:06.680 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m sort of doing that now, with just a few hours of my day. So that was another concern is, I just wanted to make sure that, like
52 00:10:06.870 ⇒ 00:10:09.930 Uttam Kumaran: I want to get a sense for how you’re using
53 00:10:10.280 ⇒ 00:10:14.210 Uttam Kumaran: your time to sort of like, get those, and
54 00:10:14.510 ⇒ 00:10:22.950 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. It just felt for me that like, if you have 8 h of time some of those items that we’re moving over. It was just sort of 2 clients, right? So
55 00:10:23.170 ⇒ 00:10:36.999 Uttam Kumaran: I was sort of concerned with, like, Okay, how is the time getting used because it’s really just like with if you’re spending 8 h. And and really it was mainly just Javi. I don’t see how some of these items just don’t get moved forward. We don’t have like the organization around those.
56 00:10:39.430 ⇒ 00:10:54.580 Nicolas Sucari: Okay, yeah, yeah. No. I was spending the time trying to figure out everything like reading all I I spend a lot of time in notion having clarity on all of the tasks, trying to work towards that working on the different spreadsheets that you wanted. And like.
57 00:10:54.580 ⇒ 00:11:22.269 Nicolas Sucari: yeah, trying to figure out what was the best ways on doing that. I spent some time reviewing meetings every day I tried to ping everyone, trying to talk and gather all of the statuses on every task I send, like those messages in slack. At some point. It was really difficult to get time with people. As you said with the analyst it was really difficult to get time with from me, with them. And that’s what I what I was yeah, trying to do. I mean, I was trying to. Yeah, just
58 00:11:22.270 ⇒ 00:11:32.010 Nicolas Sucari: be on top of stuff. But at the same time I was left out on on a lot of other things. So, having all of that context, and like the information that I needed to
59 00:11:32.400 ⇒ 00:11:46.480 Nicolas Sucari: just a simple thing that was like sending the statuses, it was not easy, and I spent more time than needed there, because I needed to figure out what was going on just reading comments in black, just asking people, because I’m not in all of the channels just trying to get
60 00:11:46.610 ⇒ 00:11:57.749 Nicolas Sucari: Robert to help me with what? What’s that like roadmap? For the next 3 months he created all of the task, and we never chatted about that right. And they asked about that meeting, and he just ignores me.
61 00:11:57.750 ⇒ 00:12:17.840 Nicolas Sucari: So yeah, I I know it’s been. It’s been really difficult, and it’s been really frustrating for me, too. I know from your side like, Hey, I’m the owner of the business. If this is not working, we need to change things. But I tried a lot, and I tried hard to make that work, and it didn’t work. So yeah, I don’t know. I I think that it’s okay. If, like, obviously
62 00:12:18.166 ⇒ 00:12:27.300 Nicolas Sucari: your, it’s your decision to take over to be on top of all the clients, and that’s fine. I am down to work on on improving on whatever
63 00:12:27.300 ⇒ 00:12:36.599 Nicolas Sucari: whatever you want me to do, or trying to be or participate in other parts of the business if you want. I don’t know operations or any other stuff that you feel that I can
64 00:12:36.983 ⇒ 00:12:45.489 Nicolas Sucari: add some value there. I know I can add value on on the organizational stuff. But it was really difficult. With with all of these clients, yeah.
65 00:12:45.800 ⇒ 00:12:48.970 Uttam Kumaran: No, I agree, and I appreciate you. I know it’s hard to
66 00:12:49.250 ⇒ 00:12:52.180 Uttam Kumaran: talk to that. I know it’s like never easy to
67 00:12:52.370 ⇒ 00:12:57.009 Uttam Kumaran: sort of, but I don’t see this as like a with other people in the company. Yeah, go ahead.
68 00:12:57.550 ⇒ 00:13:05.050 Nicolas Sucari: I’m not asking to be easy, right? Like, I know, things are not gonna be easy, but some at some point like, even though it’s hard.
69 00:13:05.250 ⇒ 00:13:07.609 Uttam Kumaran: It’s out of your. But those items are.
70 00:13:07.900 ⇒ 00:13:10.689 Uttam Kumaran: It’s I don’t like. I I wish I could have.
71 00:13:11.280 ⇒ 00:13:18.310 Uttam Kumaran: you know, assisted, but for me, you know the way I did. It was I? I messaged everyone. I said it. You have to be in these meetings every day, or
72 00:13:18.840 ⇒ 00:13:28.969 Uttam Kumaran: you’re not going to be in any meetings right? But like from your perspective, from your side, it may be hard to do things like that, and it it takes it takes like fundamental change, right like.
73 00:13:29.120 ⇒ 00:13:57.089 Uttam Kumaran: and I don’t know but this is the difference between like you and other people we have in the company like I don’t. I don’t talk to you and like it’s not working. Okay. See ya, like, I actually want you to be part. And there’s so many other areas of the company that I still think that even watching you, I know you have interest, but also can succeed without having to deal. This part of the business is the hardest, the most stressful. And I know it’s like
74 00:13:57.280 ⇒ 00:14:10.730 Uttam Kumaran: it’s it’s not for me to say you can’t handle that. But what I’m more saying is that there’s still so much other part of the business that is left, and sort of like dying that that needs to get taken care of. So I don’t see this as a
75 00:14:10.790 ⇒ 00:14:29.860 Uttam Kumaran: hey. This didn’t work out like it’s not gonna work out. I think there’s all. There’s a lot of other parts of the business that I’m definitely interested. Your your personality number one and your charisma and your interest in the business is why you’re still here, like beyond everything. Right. I don’t, and I don’t. I don’t know for me, I know.
76 00:14:30.180 ⇒ 00:14:40.370 Uttam Kumaran: And this is again. I think something for you to think about. People come into a job. And they’re like, I want to do this job like, if I’m not doing that here, I’m not doing anything. I
77 00:14:40.570 ⇒ 00:15:02.500 Uttam Kumaran: from my perspective, I look at it. Can people help the business succeed in whatever. And today like, for example, my job, when we started, the company was engineering. Then I was on recruiting. I just sort of. Now, I’m like not doing any. Now. I’m like, sort of at a different thing, so similar to me. I look at people that maybe you were right, and you did. And I’m this doesn’t negate any of the work you did in the past, right like
78 00:15:02.820 ⇒ 00:15:11.530 Uttam Kumaran: I needed you and you delivered until now, where I think there’s an opportunity to find a new area in the company to deliver.
79 00:15:11.630 ⇒ 00:15:13.279 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how I think about it, like
80 00:15:13.460 ⇒ 00:15:36.929 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t like how people don’t fit in a position, and we are growing like we are not the same company we were 6 months ago, and we it’ll happen again, there will be other people affected by the same thing where the hardest part of a business is evolution, and commonly that’s what they say, like the founder doesn’t end up becoming the CEO because it takes a different sort of motion. This happens in every role in the company.
81 00:15:37.010 ⇒ 00:15:52.729 Uttam Kumaran: and for me it’s to find the people that I know can be chameleon and sort of go. And I do. I noticed that from you early on, because you helped on a lot in operations. You help basically, whatever we needed, anything you were like, I can go take care of that. And so that’s the sort of thing I would love
82 00:15:52.880 ⇒ 00:16:12.530 Uttam Kumaran: to kind of leverage that superpower of yours in a bunch of other areas like we, I think we still have a lot of room to grow on how to speed up new employee onboarding new client onboarding, helping like we may go, we may switch to linear. I may need some help with that we’re having. We’re gonna do a bunch of stuff on the legal and finance side
83 00:16:12.900 ⇒ 00:16:17.169 Uttam Kumaran: design team like has no basically project project management at all
84 00:16:17.724 ⇒ 00:16:27.779 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think there’s definitely a lot of room. And the nice thing about those clients is that they’re internal. And there’s only a couple of people involved. Right? So I mean, it’s
85 00:16:28.840 ⇒ 00:16:37.410 Uttam Kumaran: like even dealing with the clients now is like extremely hard for me. But of course, if it’s like moving us forward internally, being a better.
86 00:16:37.520 ⇒ 00:16:58.469 Uttam Kumaran: Immediately. People who join have a better experience. Everything is organized for us and where to go to access knowledge. That’s the sort of stuff. I think you can still be really, really tremendous at. And I still think you’re like an important member of the team. That’s why I have no interest in like you leaving the company. I’m like, I just I I just think this spot is is like where it is right now. So.
87 00:16:59.170 ⇒ 00:17:17.630 Nicolas Sucari: You know, that’s that’s really good to hear from your. So thanks, obviously. And yeah, I agree. I mean it. It was hard these past few. I don’t know. 2 months, maybe on Javi and on the other clients. So yeah, I agree. I think I can. I can still be helpful for you.
88 00:17:17.630 ⇒ 00:17:18.130 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
89 00:17:18.130 ⇒ 00:17:47.280 Nicolas Sucari: On on other other stuff. I think what you mentioned about the onboarding the legal finance design, linear any other stuff, I think right now, like at this point makes a lot of more sense like to shift me into more kind of operation side of things, and try to help internally than than with clients, and maybe at a future stage I can go back to clients when we are a little bit more kind of set up and standardize some some of the things that you and Robert are working right now.
90 00:17:47.585 ⇒ 00:17:56.709 Nicolas Sucari: And yeah, and and yeah, of course, thank you again for saying that for saying that what you just said that’s what I feel from you. But that’s what I I’m.
91 00:17:56.710 ⇒ 00:17:57.080 Uttam Kumaran: I know.
92 00:17:57.080 ⇒ 00:18:00.879 Nicolas Sucari: From Robert. No, so that’s what. Sometimes it.
93 00:18:00.880 ⇒ 00:18:08.939 Uttam Kumaran: I hear. I hear I totally hear you and I and I, and I understand that’s like definitely a shared feedback from a few other people. I think it’s 2 things. One
94 00:18:09.580 ⇒ 00:18:14.190 Uttam Kumaran: ultimately, like, yeah, I mean, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
95 00:18:14.610 ⇒ 00:18:22.581 Nicolas Sucari: That I I know he’s stressed like he’s the face to the clients right now. I know he’s like like
96 00:18:23.240 ⇒ 00:18:32.070 Nicolas Sucari: selling, and that’s like really wonderful. But sometimes he asked for stuff. People do them and like he doesn’t care at all, and just cares when like
97 00:18:32.100 ⇒ 00:19:00.800 Nicolas Sucari: when he really needs that right. And it’s the feeling of urgency all the time that makes stuff goes like, maybe these ways, right? And I’m not saying like, I like working with Robert. I think he’s like a really interesting person to work with. I I think I have like a lot to learn from him. He’s really good at what he does. He knows a lot of things he sometimes is, that is, that urgency and stress that is managing, that makes
98 00:19:01.170 ⇒ 00:19:03.786 Nicolas Sucari: other people feel the other way. Right?
99 00:19:04.610 ⇒ 00:19:31.689 Nicolas Sucari: but yeah, that’s why I I tried to talk to him. I tried to ask him for a meeting, and he just ignores me. That’s fine. I mean, if he doesn’t want to do that, I’m I’m okay with that because I’m not gonna like make him do it anyways. But like, I just wanna mention that because I feel the way you’re saying from your side, but from the other side I don’t feel it at all and I don’t know right now, like what’s like the like. Where are we going? In terms of like the company in between you and Robert, I mean.
100 00:19:31.810 ⇒ 00:19:33.469 Nicolas Sucari: But yeah, that’s it.
101 00:19:34.100 ⇒ 00:19:39.069 Uttam Kumaran: No, I that’s the feedback I want to hear. I think. I’ve received like sort of similar.
102 00:19:39.580 ⇒ 00:19:50.230 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, some people have said similarly, and I’ve definitely shared that to Robert. I think there’s 2 areas, one like anything in life, I think, takes a lot of trust. And ultimately.
103 00:19:51.410 ⇒ 00:19:58.480 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like, you know people mean well, but of course it doesn’t excuse, like
104 00:19:58.690 ⇒ 00:20:03.640 Uttam Kumaran: sort of people being rude or disrespectful. I totally hear you on that. There is a fine line.
105 00:20:04.279 ⇒ 00:20:12.539 Uttam Kumaran: There always will be a sense of urgency and a sense of expertise. But I but my style is, of course, very different.
106 00:20:13.244 ⇒ 00:20:20.119 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And and there are pros and cons to both. I think one definitely, you’ll see more.
107 00:20:21.010 ⇒ 00:20:29.200 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of the sense of urgency is mainly because, yeah, if he, if he’s going to meetings and stuff isn’t done. And he’s basically like we’re about to lose like 30 grand.
108 00:20:29.370 ⇒ 00:20:31.240 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, I guess.
109 00:20:31.240 ⇒ 00:20:34.399 Nicolas Sucari: No, yeah, that’s that’s why I get it. That’s why I get it.
110 00:20:34.400 ⇒ 00:20:44.170 Uttam Kumaran: You know what I mean, and for me, I I like. I’m a more stoic person, and that like, but it takes it takes everyone to sort of understand that that’s tough. But like
111 00:20:44.420 ⇒ 00:20:51.540 Uttam Kumaran: we should be pushing outwardly not like sort of attacking inside. So I totally. I’ll I’ll definitely deliver that feedback.
112 00:20:52.210 ⇒ 00:20:56.700 Nicolas Sucari: Why I have never mentioned anything to anyone, and try not to like build.
113 00:20:56.700 ⇒ 00:20:58.030 Uttam Kumaran: No, you should. It’s like.
114 00:20:58.030 ⇒ 00:21:20.520 Nicolas Sucari: Just it’s just me. And and that’s why I want to talk to him like what happened that with the Javi objective stuff like, I want to give a man what he needs, and he’s asking for me like really specific stuff. And when I go back to Robert, he says, like, no, we don’t need to share that. Okay, explain to me why and let me get some time with you. Try to figure out together, and then we come back, and we can align ourselves again.
115 00:21:20.670 ⇒ 00:21:24.189 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But yeah, no, it’s a it’s a
116 00:21:24.420 ⇒ 00:21:30.300 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a matter of like, yeah, I mean, I I hear you. I think one, I think like
117 00:21:30.710 ⇒ 00:21:41.090 Uttam Kumaran: ultimately for me. I want to know if your end objective and your goal is to become a successful Pm. And work with clients. I think there will be another opportunity to do that here.
118 00:21:41.310 ⇒ 00:21:55.040 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’re in. We’re in a phase right now where we just have to guarantee success. So for me as usual, like, there’s 1 way of doing that, I think, as we change and we get bigger.
119 00:21:55.360 ⇒ 00:22:03.699 Uttam Kumaran: there will be definitely an OP. More opportunity to do that. And I hope you can sort of see the reason why. I think, second, yeah, definitely, I think
120 00:22:04.400 ⇒ 00:22:10.959 Uttam Kumaran: we’re doing our best, both of us together, to try to set a shared vision, I think. Certainly.
121 00:22:11.596 ⇒ 00:22:13.780 Uttam Kumaran: We’re working on figuring out
122 00:22:14.090 ⇒ 00:22:24.570 Uttam Kumaran: like how to set the culture. And that’s why I wanted to bring on really Rock Star people, and wanted especially to keep folks like you, who definitely make a huge, tremendous impact in terms of
123 00:22:24.690 ⇒ 00:22:26.740 Uttam Kumaran: the culture and people being like
124 00:22:27.378 ⇒ 00:22:29.619 Uttam Kumaran: excited to come to work.
125 00:22:29.750 ⇒ 00:22:32.939 Uttam Kumaran: I think there is a portion of that that’s related to
126 00:22:33.420 ⇒ 00:22:38.550 Uttam Kumaran: the way we communicate, and and how we you know how we sort of
127 00:22:39.030 ⇒ 00:22:40.780 Uttam Kumaran: cut through some of the tension.
128 00:22:42.150 ⇒ 00:22:46.809 Uttam Kumaran: but we all we all sort of have things to work on, and things that we’re good and bad at.
129 00:22:47.090 ⇒ 00:22:48.840 Uttam Kumaran: I think, Robert one
130 00:22:49.253 ⇒ 00:22:57.430 Uttam Kumaran: you. You may be surprised, but he’s definitely aware of the way he comes across on slack, you know, and so, but ultimately it takes a level of trust. In fact.
131 00:22:58.270 ⇒ 00:23:04.800 Uttam Kumaran: I think this is where I actually people. If you haven’t worked with pretty serious of executives.
132 00:23:05.100 ⇒ 00:23:06.850 Uttam Kumaran: It’s worse than this.
133 00:23:07.210 ⇒ 00:23:17.789 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like, on one hand I get. But the fact that we’re all on the same team I want people to. I don’t want people to run away from the conflict. I want people to know that
134 00:23:17.940 ⇒ 00:23:20.490 Uttam Kumaran: that’s there, and I know you do a good job remote, but
135 00:23:21.090 ⇒ 00:23:31.240 Uttam Kumaran: those there’s there’s feedback I’ll give him, and and I think we’ll work through that. I think we’ll we’ll do a better job. This is gonna be our biggest month, but simultaneously, probably our most chaotic month.
136 00:23:31.440 ⇒ 00:23:32.280 Uttam Kumaran: and
137 00:23:32.420 ⇒ 00:23:49.479 Uttam Kumaran: and we just have to get through this and next month for some things to sort of slow down for us to set the pace for the next year, and I think there, as you as you can tell, there’s always changes. But again, there’s really there’s people I can stand losing. And then there’s really people that have like no interest
138 00:23:50.070 ⇒ 00:24:08.210 Uttam Kumaran: like I would find something right as long as you’d be open to it because I want you to get rewarded, not only to work with us, but like, I want this company to become big. I want the people that have been here the longest to win, because you set the foundations for the company right. And I really am. I’m not interested in sort of like.
139 00:24:08.840 ⇒ 00:24:12.930 Uttam Kumaran: like every 6 months. It’s like a brand new cast of characters. I hate that
140 00:24:13.470 ⇒ 00:24:19.160 Uttam Kumaran: we we’ve had that I don’t like doing that. And so I do think of this as like a business where
141 00:24:19.480 ⇒ 00:24:26.320 Uttam Kumaran: the next challenge is like right around the corner. If you are, if you are a good project, manager and heart, all you need is a tough project.
142 00:24:26.650 ⇒ 00:24:36.570 Uttam Kumaran: right? And for this things it’s actually, I don’t particularly think the data thing is hard. It’s really just like we don’t. We haven’t figured out the playbook on how to execute on clients.
143 00:24:36.920 ⇒ 00:24:41.109 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’ll figure it out in the next 2 months, and I think there’ll probably be another shot.
144 00:24:41.410 ⇒ 00:24:43.479 Uttam Kumaran: but for now I I could really use some help.
145 00:24:43.480 ⇒ 00:25:11.660 Nicolas Sucari: No, that’s yeah. And that’s that’s totally fine with me, like my goal is not not to be like the best project manager in the world I’m facing. And that stuff my goal here is to, as you said, like to make this company grow and to grow with it. It doesn’t matter if I’m like facing clients. If I’m doing something internally, if I’m learning Dbt or anything else like I just want to grow with the company, and I think we’re doing a pretty good job and yeah, and I don’t care if I’m like
146 00:25:12.160 ⇒ 00:25:18.410 Nicolas Sucari: client facing or doing something internally working on setting up a linear or any other operational.
147 00:25:18.410 ⇒ 00:25:18.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
148 00:25:19.630 ⇒ 00:25:28.770 Uttam Kumaran: it takes a lot to say that. And it takes, you know, you have to be very low, ego to say something like that. So I feel the same. I’m the same exact way where
149 00:25:29.310 ⇒ 00:25:50.429 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll do whatever you know. But I but I know that it’s hard from your perspective. But I just wanna. And I’ll say this again on the team meeting, like I want to commit to everybody who wants to spend their career here working with us that it will be. It will be very meaningful not only experience wise financially, emotionally, that this is a great experience, and
150 00:25:50.600 ⇒ 00:25:52.410 Uttam Kumaran: I ultimately think that
151 00:25:52.520 ⇒ 00:26:02.519 Uttam Kumaran: some people on the engineering side may become. Pm, some people may go other ways. I don’t it doesn’t. I care about the company succeeding right? So even broadly. It’s roles are one thing, but
152 00:26:03.220 ⇒ 00:26:13.490 Uttam Kumaran: like there are so many things there’s so much stuff to work on, and I do think that if you can help us sort of take on some stuff on operations, some stuff on design.
153 00:26:13.490 ⇒ 00:26:13.940 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
154 00:26:13.940 ⇒ 00:26:23.379 Uttam Kumaran: Stuff with legal finance like we are. Drop. We are like you. You won’t believe like some of the stuff we’re dropping the ball on, and that I think
155 00:26:23.910 ⇒ 00:26:32.689 Uttam Kumaran: you would one. I think we work a lot closely together, and there’s a lot of work to be done there, too. So that’s like that’s sort of how I’m thinking about things.
156 00:26:33.260 ⇒ 00:26:37.240 Nicolas Sucari: No, no, I I’m totally down for it. So yeah, sure.
157 00:26:37.720 ⇒ 00:26:38.330 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
158 00:26:39.530 ⇒ 00:26:45.129 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so let me. I think one thing is like it’ll be around sort of taking on the current
159 00:26:45.550 ⇒ 00:26:52.542 Uttam Kumaran: design level design sort of roadmap, I think. Let me think through a few core objectives
160 00:26:53.860 ⇒ 00:27:00.250 Uttam Kumaran: today around taking over some stuff on the design team as well as taking over some stuff.
161 00:27:01.330 ⇒ 00:27:03.130 Uttam Kumaran: For operations.
162 00:27:03.665 ⇒ 00:27:07.469 Uttam Kumaran: Is there anything else on your mind that you sort of
163 00:27:08.300 ⇒ 00:27:16.209 Uttam Kumaran: think like, okay, it could be interesting to go work on, because I’ll sort of build a little bit of a list of things. That we want to try to take care of.
164 00:27:17.739 ⇒ 00:27:37.129 Nicolas Sucari: Let me think about that. But yeah, like, moving everything regarding like notion to linear if you want on the like project side, obviously not managing, but like setting that up, trying to make it work, join like working closely with engineering. Maybe not, or may to be with engineers around it.
165 00:27:37.130 ⇒ 00:27:48.019 Nicolas Sucari: Maybe not on the client work if you want, but just trying to set this this up or working with Kayo closely on on what will like make this system work.
166 00:27:48.090 ⇒ 00:28:12.529 Nicolas Sucari: I’m down for that, too. In operations. I think there is a lot of of things to do like as you said legal finance, but also like how to manage all of the onboarding, to set that up like 1st week. 1st month of people try to have everything ready once someone is gonna start so that so to build also a little bit more on the culture of the of the team, like when someone is joining what needs to happen.
167 00:28:12.620 ⇒ 00:28:17.160 Nicolas Sucari: That person to have to have everything he needs, or he needs to start working.
168 00:28:17.160 ⇒ 00:28:20.720 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not doing a good job there at all. Like when people come in.
169 00:28:21.020 ⇒ 00:28:27.999 Uttam Kumaran: how do they feel like they’re joining like a really talented group of people like, we probably need to do some sort of presentation
170 00:28:28.150 ⇒ 00:28:34.660 Uttam Kumaran: like, I probably need to meet with everybody, and like all those things, I think like.
171 00:28:34.950 ⇒ 00:28:39.234 Uttam Kumaran: I just need to be taken care of. Otherwise, we’re gonna start losing people
172 00:28:39.880 ⇒ 00:28:45.339 Uttam Kumaran: for the same way. Right? So I do think of like all those things as a really open opportunities that.
173 00:28:45.530 ⇒ 00:28:49.660 Uttam Kumaran: like another person who wasn’t as like, I think
174 00:28:49.820 ⇒ 00:28:54.309 Uttam Kumaran: there are people who run agencies where they don’t care about that. But that’s why they everybody leaves
175 00:28:54.470 ⇒ 00:29:03.779 Uttam Kumaran: right? So I’m sort of thinking about a lot of things about employee retention, but also about improving the 1st day, week, month for employees.
176 00:29:05.270 ⇒ 00:29:18.619 Uttam Kumaran: like preparing stuff for the weekly and Monday meetings. Like sort of that, I mean, I would consider it all related to operations. I mean, we can make whatever title whatever you’re interested in. I don’t care.
177 00:29:18.620 ⇒ 00:29:20.949 Nicolas Sucari: No, no, that’s fine. I don’t need a title. That’s.
178 00:29:20.950 ⇒ 00:29:24.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, simple for me. I don’t care about the title.
179 00:29:24.260 ⇒ 00:29:34.380 Uttam Kumaran: I think, as long as you’re delivering you’re still delivering for us, like. So let me. Let’s work on some list like I think we could just run like we could do it in notion.
180 00:29:34.670 ⇒ 00:29:37.240 Uttam Kumaran: You just do it off a spreadsheet something easy. Where?
181 00:29:37.470 ⇒ 00:29:43.369 Uttam Kumaran: Where? Then? In the next? In the next 3 4 weeks, we’re gonna have some more.
182 00:29:43.600 ⇒ 00:29:47.350 Uttam Kumaran: We’re bringing on a new accounting firm, and they’re gonna sort of have a bunch of questions.
183 00:29:47.500 ⇒ 00:29:50.939 Uttam Kumaran: And so I think I could use a lot of help there as well.
184 00:29:51.560 ⇒ 00:29:51.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
185 00:29:51.890 ⇒ 00:29:52.440 Nicolas Sucari: Totally.
186 00:29:52.440 ⇒ 00:29:52.830 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah.
187 00:29:52.830 ⇒ 00:29:53.770 Nicolas Sucari: I like those kind of stuff.
188 00:29:53.770 ⇒ 00:29:57.420 Uttam Kumaran: I think, being someone like you who I know is just like sort of generalist.
189 00:29:57.960 ⇒ 00:30:07.809 Uttam Kumaran: You have that. You know the technical side. You’re the project manager side. You kind of know all the business it’s it’s it would be extremely helpful to get your help in like certain select ways. So.
190 00:30:08.430 ⇒ 00:30:09.040 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
191 00:30:09.370 ⇒ 00:30:25.040 Nicolas Sucari: obviously discount with me on that. I’m I’m down to do it. As I said, I I’m I’m down to do anything we need as a company to make it grow. I don’t care if it’s not. Pm, like, I’m not like, yeah, like my goal in life is not to be the best Pm. Though.
192 00:30:26.430 ⇒ 00:30:30.080 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Like, I think it’s rare a lot of people. They
193 00:30:30.200 ⇒ 00:30:32.929 Uttam Kumaran: they get an ego about those things, and.
194 00:30:32.950 ⇒ 00:30:33.700 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, I know.
195 00:30:33.700 ⇒ 00:30:36.140 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know there was a position. My, yeah, but it’s like.
196 00:30:36.540 ⇒ 00:30:50.910 Uttam Kumaran: but I don’t think about that. I think about how can people be part of the success. And I I think success here. It won’t be determined by your title. It’ll be determined by the impact and the tenure here and stuff like that. So that’s sort of like
197 00:30:51.120 ⇒ 00:30:57.810 Uttam Kumaran: you can keep that in your front of your mind, and I hear you on the feedback on communication stuff. I promise you that stuff will get
198 00:30:58.140 ⇒ 00:30:59.730 Uttam Kumaran: better over time.
199 00:30:59.950 ⇒ 00:31:03.539 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, we’re working on it really hard.
200 00:31:03.540 ⇒ 00:31:24.660 Nicolas Sucari: Just like, don’t focus on what’s like with me. I don’t care. I mean, I’m I’m an easy person to just discuss that on a meeting and just go away and continue working. But I’m not sure about other people, you know, like, if someone goes through that, maybe I don’t know how, what can happen? Right? But yeah, like, I’m not saying this personally with me, because.
201 00:31:24.660 ⇒ 00:31:39.310 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I’m not. Don’t. I don’t want people to be like oh, it’s like I said it, and I’m gonna cost them no, no, but like telling you. It’s a common thread. I hear it where we discuss it. We’re trying. We’re working, it is. I will say it’s hard, like both of us.
202 00:31:39.310 ⇒ 00:31:39.830 Nicolas Sucari: I know.
203 00:31:39.830 ⇒ 00:31:42.670 Uttam Kumaran: Probably worked 15 h every day last 3 weeks
204 00:31:43.840 ⇒ 00:31:48.379 Uttam Kumaran: I somehow stay happy, but like it’s hard, like I don’t. That’s why it’s hard. It’s just
205 00:31:48.550 ⇒ 00:31:54.770 Uttam Kumaran: but I but I I’m really telling you we are graduating into a next level right now that
206 00:31:55.030 ⇒ 00:32:19.670 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like extremely exciting. So many things are gonna change. And I do think that, like your ability to sort of come in and just like help everywhere, I already recognize that right? And so I want to lean in more on that, because I do think that you’ll see a side of even yourself that’s successful in being able to sort of flow and and just go wherever the fire is like. You’re sort of like me in that where it’s like whatever we need, I’ll go figure it out
207 00:32:20.176 ⇒ 00:32:24.440 Uttam Kumaran: and so I’m excited to sort of enable you to do that. So let’s let’s do that. Let’s
208 00:32:24.440 ⇒ 00:32:25.539 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, of course.
209 00:32:25.540 ⇒ 00:32:32.361 Uttam Kumaran: just ping me a list or something, or let’s work on some sort of collaborated notion, page or
210 00:32:33.080 ⇒ 00:32:34.389 Uttam Kumaran: and then we just hit on.
211 00:32:35.270 ⇒ 00:32:36.480 Nicolas Sucari: Of course. Yeah.
212 00:32:37.340 ⇒ 00:32:38.230 Nicolas Sucari: Great.
213 00:32:39.080 ⇒ 00:32:43.626 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, dude, thank you. I know not an easy conversation to have but hopefully,
214 00:32:44.670 ⇒ 00:33:05.870 Nicolas Sucari: And it was a needed conversation. So that’s what I like, and that’s what the same that we discussed when you came here. Like having those conversations. It’s great for me, I mean, I love them. I love the feedback. I love to keep the conversation going. So yeah, I’m down for it, and, as I said, like I’m I don’t want to be like the best Pm. In the world, and if I’m not the best Pm. Here, I will be at other place. No, I wanna.
215 00:33:05.870 ⇒ 00:33:10.210 Uttam Kumaran: No, I don’t think I don’t think like that. Anyone’s dream. If you want to do that, it’s like a kind of a.
216 00:33:10.210 ⇒ 00:33:10.940 Nicolas Sucari: No. Yeah.
217 00:33:10.960 ⇒ 00:33:15.799 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But I yeah, I understand. Okay.
218 00:33:17.610 ⇒ 00:33:35.120 Nicolas Sucari: Okay, let me know. Let me know if what you want to do with Javi, if you need me on anything, obviously with me on that. And what about pool parts? I mean, I can keep being if you want. I can keep being there. Or just yeah, whatever you want, just let me know.
219 00:33:35.260 ⇒ 00:33:35.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
220 00:33:35.750 ⇒ 00:33:41.580 Uttam Kumaran: give me another day, I think. Just like, let’s see, let me see over the next 2 days, and I’m sort of getting organized on everything.
221 00:33:41.580 ⇒ 00:33:41.940 Nicolas Sucari: Okay.
222 00:33:42.070 ⇒ 00:33:47.930 Uttam Kumaran: If anything immediate comes to you feel free. But I think pool parts. I’ll probably go to the meeting tomorrow and sort of get everyone organized.
223 00:33:48.630 ⇒ 00:33:54.630 Nicolas Sucari: Okay. Okay, yeah, I’ll I’ll prepare a list of stuff that I think I can help you with
224 00:33:54.770 ⇒ 00:34:00.500 Nicolas Sucari: regarding operations. And yeah, more, yeah, company wise stuff and get back to you. Okay.
225 00:34:00.850 ⇒ 00:34:04.220 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay, great. Thanks. Again.
226 00:34:04.730 ⇒ 00:34:05.539 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Talk to you.
227 00:34:05.540 ⇒ 00:34:06.239 Nicolas Sucari: Hey Mike.
228 00:34:06.530 ⇒ 00:34:07.200 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.