Meeting Title: Uttam_Steven Date: 2025-02-14 Meeting participants: Steven, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:05:52.250 ⇒ 00:05:54.190 steven: Hey, Steven, so sorry!
2 00:05:54.600 ⇒ 00:05:55.580 steven: How are you?
3 00:05:55.580 ⇒ 00:05:56.370 Uttam Kumaran: Good.
4 00:05:56.480 ⇒ 00:05:58.210 Uttam Kumaran: Just had like a
5 00:05:58.470 ⇒ 00:06:06.359 Uttam Kumaran: sales call. Go a little over good call, though. They’re funny. We’re working on a lot of like positioning stuff for the company. Now, which is sort of like.
6 00:06:06.710 ⇒ 00:06:09.369 Uttam Kumaran: okay, we’re looking at all the people we’ve helped.
7 00:06:09.920 ⇒ 00:06:20.030 Uttam Kumaran: what are like, the what, what is actually like, their problem sort of like when you go to a doctor’s office. They’re like what hurts. And we sort of like, I think we nailed it because we just talked to this person. He was like.
8 00:06:20.610 ⇒ 00:06:26.619 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, one of the things is like, sometimes people who bring us on. They hire like one or 2 people, but like
9 00:06:26.930 ⇒ 00:06:46.449 Uttam Kumaran: they’re sort of in the trenches working. Nobody sort of is the throat to choke on like the whole architecture for the data system. And then you sort of get left with like whatever they decide. But, like you don’t still don’t know the CEO or whatever, and like it was exactly the case. So I’m kinda happy that we talked about that this week. So yeah.
10 00:06:46.450 ⇒ 00:06:47.890 steven: Say a lot of me.
11 00:06:47.890 ⇒ 00:06:50.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, thank you for taking the time. Today, I appreciate it.
12 00:06:50.910 ⇒ 00:06:55.430 steven: Yeah, of course. Yeah, I appreciate you putting everything on the calendar, getting it set up, of course. So.
13 00:06:55.430 ⇒ 00:06:56.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
14 00:06:56.410 ⇒ 00:06:57.910 Uttam Kumaran: How’s the how’s the week going.
15 00:06:58.380 ⇒ 00:07:08.730 steven: It’s good man. It’s it’s busy, you know. It’s yeah. Been been a long week. But yeah, it’s good. It’s a good busy, though. So, you know, got a
16 00:07:09.010 ⇒ 00:07:15.649 steven: you know, Valentine’s Day today with with my wife. And you know, we’re gonna gonna do some hot pot. So.
17 00:07:15.650 ⇒ 00:07:16.190 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
18 00:07:16.190 ⇒ 00:07:23.820 steven: Always enjoy doing that so? And then a long weekend, too. So yeah, not not too shabby. What about you? How are you.
19 00:07:23.820 ⇒ 00:07:32.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m good. I actually just got back today from Argentina. I was visiting Buenos Aires for the week. I, friend of mine, was going
20 00:07:32.620 ⇒ 00:07:46.779 Uttam Kumaran: to a wedding. And I was like, Okay, well, I’ll just tag along. I’m not in the way. I’m not going to the wedding, but I’ll just tag along while you’re there for a week, and one of the one of our guys on our team is in Buenos Aires. So you have to spend some time with him there.
21 00:07:47.494 ⇒ 00:07:53.470 Uttam Kumaran: Still worked a bunch which is good. I feel like, you know. It’s like I I’m in Austin right now, but
22 00:07:53.580 ⇒ 00:07:57.709 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll feel lucky to be able to go travel and still get some work done.
23 00:07:58.123 ⇒ 00:08:06.819 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, I think this weekend we’ll be. I’m in Austin, and we’re we’re sort of close to this place called Fredericksburg. It’s sort of like sort of like Texas wine country.
24 00:08:07.726 ⇒ 00:08:09.310 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of like.
25 00:08:09.430 ⇒ 00:08:18.249 Uttam Kumaran: I mean. I grew up in the Bay area. It’s like, not really like Napa, but sort of like the Texas version of that, like, it’s, it’s still pretty really really nice.
26 00:08:18.350 ⇒ 00:08:19.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
27 00:08:19.370 ⇒ 00:08:29.439 steven: Napa. Napa is incredible, so I’ve been there only once. So I went right before Covid, like pretty much like the week or 2 before Covid. And
28 00:08:30.257 ⇒ 00:08:33.870 steven: yeah, it’s just it was.
29 00:08:33.870 ⇒ 00:08:36.739 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just amazing. It’s just you feel like a relaxed like.
30 00:08:37.070 ⇒ 00:08:38.890 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just slow, you know.
31 00:08:39.239 ⇒ 00:08:43.789 steven: Yeah, it’s it’s good. But yeah, you know, it’s you know.
32 00:08:44.010 ⇒ 00:08:48.900 steven: like, I said, it’s it’s it’s been a good work, week, you know, busy, but it’s a good busy. So.
33 00:08:48.900 ⇒ 00:08:57.039 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And so I’ve heard a lot of really great things from Robert. You know I’m I’m hoping that this conversation, I think, is one sort of you know,
34 00:08:57.630 ⇒ 00:09:04.630 Uttam Kumaran: giving you a chance to ask me any hard questions. But also, you know, I’m definitely, you know, a little bit curious
35 00:09:05.445 ⇒ 00:09:13.754 Uttam Kumaran: about you, and sort of from learning a little bit about our okrs and sort of the business from Robert.
36 00:09:14.500 ⇒ 00:09:20.410 Uttam Kumaran: sort of what your thoughts are overall. I think you know a little bit about our challenge so far.
37 00:09:20.530 ⇒ 00:09:23.070 Uttam Kumaran: you know, and to give you a little bit of
38 00:09:23.250 ⇒ 00:09:33.149 Uttam Kumaran: background on me. So I you know, I started Brainforge roughly 2 years ago. My background is in data engineering. I worked as a data engineer.
39 00:09:33.290 ⇒ 00:09:34.540 Uttam Kumaran: I then
40 00:09:35.014 ⇒ 00:09:43.120 Uttam Kumaran: led a data team, and then I became a Pm. And I led a full stack team. And then I led product at a startup.
41 00:09:43.280 ⇒ 00:09:49.230 Uttam Kumaran: So and I just sort of did that at increasingly smaller startup so really, just like
42 00:09:49.930 ⇒ 00:10:17.169 Uttam Kumaran: destroyed my life for like a bunch of years, and then decided to start this company which actually this, it’s been very hard, but hard, and like not not like company politics, ways, which is really really good, which is a lot of what I have to use to deal with. But yeah, so I totally get like and you know I am. I have a lot of opinions about how we do project management, how we, how we help our engineers work on the right thing for the right client at the right time.
43 00:10:17.610 ⇒ 00:10:35.809 Uttam Kumaran: You know, based on a whole host of factors and you know, I do think that we definitely have a lot of opportunity to grow in that area. I think we’ve done a good enough job at transitioning from, you know just me working on clients to me and some other people to then. Actually, now having a team working across several clients like
44 00:10:35.870 ⇒ 00:10:49.120 Uttam Kumaran: to successfully go through that evolution. I think we’ve done a good job this next phase. We’re really in the point where we have to build systems around successfully executing work reliably.
45 00:10:49.474 ⇒ 00:11:06.769 Uttam Kumaran: The nice thing is that from my perspective, none of the data work we’ve done has been incredibly challenging meaning. It’s a lot of the work that I’ve been doing for a number of years, and even for people that are like junior or mid level and data. The work is totally easy. So it’s
46 00:11:06.900 ⇒ 00:11:22.640 Uttam Kumaran: our challenges have not been on like anything in particular is like technically impossible. I think it’s been in a couple of areas, one sort of resource management understanding like, who’s available. What can they do? How do they get assigned work?
47 00:11:22.890 ⇒ 00:11:30.299 Uttam Kumaran: And the second piece is just communication with clients. I think one of the things that I learned a lot in this business compared to working in house is that
48 00:11:30.735 ⇒ 00:11:38.060 Uttam Kumaran: communication is like 50% of the game. I think when I was internally, it was maybe more like 20 or 30% like
49 00:11:38.470 ⇒ 00:11:46.899 Uttam Kumaran: got the work done fine. But here, really, we can buy ourselves a lot of goodwill by just communicating over and often.
50 00:11:48.230 ⇒ 00:12:15.903 Uttam Kumaran: and I think innately like, I know that I think Robert knows that I think we’re just trying to build that system, and that you know that sort of habit in the company. And so those are kind of like what I would prescribe. I don’t know if I’m you know. I’m sure. Robert gave similar slightly different answers, but from my perspective. I think that’s that’s really, you know where we’re hurting. And yeah, so we’re we’re just trying to bring on someone who who wants to take that on as a as a real challenge. I think.
51 00:12:16.310 ⇒ 00:12:20.390 Uttam Kumaran: we’re growing incredibly quickly. I think we’re not looking for.
52 00:12:20.800 ⇒ 00:12:30.589 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not looking to like. I think we’re. Of course we’re looking to hire. We’re not looking to bring on like a hundred people, right? So every hire for us incrementally really matters not just to
53 00:12:31.061 ⇒ 00:12:59.519 Uttam Kumaran: say that those people are it, but like we want to give as much responsibility as people can take and give as much reward right? And for me. I used to run, you know, engineering team. And I’m really. And I used to be in startups, and I don’t really consider us a startup like I want everybody in the company to feel like they’re part of the journey. But beyond just saying that, like, we want to work on ways to reward people for spending time and doing their best work for clients, but also become like one of the.
54 00:12:59.700 ⇒ 00:13:15.180 Uttam Kumaran: You know, more well known companies in, you know, data, analytics and AI consulting. And I do think that we have a pretty good shot at that. So so yeah, that was just a lot thrown your way, but anything I can answer, or any questions, or I would love to get your feedback on that.
55 00:13:16.030 ⇒ 00:13:21.020 steven: Yeah, it’s awesome. It’s good to hear that that, you know, have a good drive and passion with it, you know. I think that’s always
56 00:13:21.080 ⇒ 00:13:46.359 steven: really important to hear. You know, someone especially like a CEO to like, you know, actually like, really have like passion behind, like what they’re doing and everything. So I definitely hear that, you know from you. But yeah, I think just kind of add on that, too, you know. I think specifically when it comes to client communication and also internal communication. That’s like kind of one of my strong suits. I always, when it comes to internal communication I’m i i make sure to always over communicate.
57 00:13:46.819 ⇒ 00:14:09.919 steven: I think that’s kind of like a a good way to go, and just like kind of like, give a lot of information. Ask a lot of questions for your team. Just so like they have what they need to have like set up, or they like, you know, have essentially no tile, you know, unturned, or, you know, not turned right? So that’s kind of what I’m always trying to do with my team.
58 00:14:09.980 ⇒ 00:14:32.569 steven: you know, specifically, you know, in social marketing, you know, currently, that’s why I’m in you know, just making sure that. You know, if something is kind of like upcoming, and I might have a question about it. I’m gonna ask them. I’m gonna make sure that they have information on it. So when the time comes, it’s not just like a ta, an open task of sitting there, and you know no one knows what it is. You know it’s always make up to me to, you know.
59 00:14:32.630 ⇒ 00:14:38.160 steven: Keep pushing it along. As well as I know you mentioned. Like, you know, time management with everyone.
60 00:14:38.451 ⇒ 00:14:57.858 steven: It’s also important to like. Look at. You know, people’s time there, you know. What’s you know, what what people have do and and how to, you know, focus, strategy, and align people with like different tasks and different projects in order to kind of like focus the frame on, you know the main thing. So that’s something that I have a lot of experience in as well.
61 00:14:58.140 ⇒ 00:15:16.009 steven: with project. Management is is kind of, you know, tracking people’s time and making sure no one’s overloaded and when it does come to people overloading, you know, I gotta, you know. Use, you know, a puzzle of some sort to kind of, you know. You know. Hey, this is this is, we’re kind of early on here, like, let’s from there. So
62 00:15:16.430 ⇒ 00:15:20.599 steven: a lot of that I do a lot of that and I, just, you know.
63 00:15:21.030 ⇒ 00:15:31.440 steven: going off like the client communication aspect of it, too. I have always been client focused or client forward, talking with them. Essentially kind of like an account manager in a way.
64 00:15:31.440 ⇒ 00:15:31.850 Uttam Kumaran: Sure.
65 00:15:32.280 ⇒ 00:15:34.429 steven: So you know, I think.
66 00:15:35.190 ⇒ 00:15:43.239 steven: for the most part, you know. Sometimes clients can be late, and everything too, and and I’ve you know there’s some kind of strategy that has to be found within
67 00:15:43.510 ⇒ 00:15:49.665 steven: each different client in order to communicate with them. You know no client is the same, you know sometimes.
68 00:15:50.220 ⇒ 00:16:04.199 steven: you wanna, you know, think about bringing the hammer down on a client, you know. But think about the hammer is like a squeaky toy right? You know, it’s it’s not gonna hurt them, you know it. It’s you’re gonna like, you know. Make sure you can make a you know.
69 00:16:04.450 ⇒ 00:16:07.290 steven: You know, come up with some kind of plan or
70 00:16:08.031 ⇒ 00:16:25.920 steven: way to tell them that they need to kind of here to dates and everything, and cause that’s you know, that’s time that’s being taken away from your team in order to hit their deadline. So I think that’s also like a strategy as well. So that’s kind of like one of like the 3 ingredients I use for, like, you know, my magic pot of project managing and.
71 00:16:25.920 ⇒ 00:16:26.530 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
72 00:16:27.840 ⇒ 00:16:41.340 steven: so that’s kind of my approach to some of those things. But I think you know, with with this role. I I guess currently I learned from Robert that there’s 2 Pm’s in a way. So I think this role would kind of be.
73 00:16:41.560 ⇒ 00:16:47.819 steven: you know, working overheaded with them, or you know, what’s the what would the structure be for this role.
74 00:16:47.820 ⇒ 00:16:53.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So at the moment we have one dedicated Pm, I would say, me and Robert are both also pming
75 00:16:53.780 ⇒ 00:16:55.720 Uttam Kumaran: out of necessity, like
76 00:16:56.180 ⇒ 00:17:08.370 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, if there’s not a someone in the job, I’m doing it, or he’s doing it. So you could apply that to a a bunch of other areas. And one of our okrs for this quarter is to get our time down on clients.
77 00:17:08.809 ⇒ 00:17:37.749 Uttam Kumaran: Frankly, I would love to spend all my time on clients. But then we would have no machine right? And so part of my job, you know, hopefully, until I can spend a little bit more time there is to work on the machine, and the machine is really making sure that our sales effort is going well, that we have clients that are great fits for our work that we have the best engineers task to work on them. And that we can continue to, you know. Go get more and sort of build that cycle. Of course.
78 00:17:37.890 ⇒ 00:18:00.489 Uttam Kumaran: we also want to work on things that matter to the company and the people we want to work on, you know, bringing more people on full time building out more okrs. We want to work on either equity or profit, share things for comp for the for the employees. So there’s all these things that because our time is sort of still spent in the fire, we have a hard time executing on. So that’s sort of where I think you would come in is really
79 00:18:00.690 ⇒ 00:18:18.399 Uttam Kumaran: at the core level, identifying clients where you can basically absorb the project management and execution on. I think we’ve sort of arrived at this notion of like at least 3 roles per client, which is one is sort of an engagement lead. Second is a project manager, and 3rd
80 00:18:18.400 ⇒ 00:18:34.369 Uttam Kumaran: 3, rd 4, th 5, th are the people on the engineering side. And to give you a sense, this is sort of a recent decision. And again, I would for this person. In this role I would actually look for qualification on whether this was the right move, because we found that, given how technical
81 00:18:34.740 ⇒ 00:18:54.049 Uttam Kumaran: for me, like I think when I was managing clients, I I was also doing technical work. And then I also, I’m familiar with how to do the Pm. Work. So it sort of worked out, and I can sort of dish things out. I think we found that it was probably helpful to have someone who’s sort of like a lead on a technical side, someone who’s purely focused on
82 00:18:54.530 ⇒ 00:19:09.850 Uttam Kumaran: the jobs need to get done and out. And those people sort of collaborate to make sure what needs to get executed for the engineers. Whether that’s right or wrong, I’m I’m not 100% sure on yet, but that’s sort of our model right now. So for each client we at least have
83 00:19:10.030 ⇒ 00:19:24.742 Uttam Kumaran: me, Robert, or one or 2 other people that are can be the technical counterpart to the to the project manager. Basically qualifying what they need to do in terms of like technical stakehold sec technical roadmap.
84 00:19:25.410 ⇒ 00:19:30.658 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s that’s really we have about 7 clients. Now we’re having. We have one. It’s actually a
85 00:19:31.280 ⇒ 00:19:42.390 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a flower company. So this weekend is like their second biggest weekend of the year, and we’re coming on to actually work on some challenges related to that but we’re starting with them on Monday, and really
86 00:19:42.840 ⇒ 00:19:58.160 Uttam Kumaran: sort of I kind of am nervous even to sell more than we have right now, because we are not able to consistently execute. We have good weeks, and we have bad weeks. And I’m it’s tough because we sometimes we have a bad week. And we we basically risk the client
87 00:19:58.420 ⇒ 00:20:11.229 Uttam Kumaran: and a lot of that again is not due to us being technically incapable. It’s it’s all communication and just making sure that we didn’t lose 2 days because we couldn’t get like an Api key, or we didn’t lose 2 days, because.
88 00:20:11.290 ⇒ 00:20:22.109 Uttam Kumaran: like a 1 line change was sort of waiting for me to review or waiting for someone else, and then they went off or like, there’s some, you know, like, and you know how it goes. It’s just small stuff like that that unless
89 00:20:22.140 ⇒ 00:20:46.089 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sort of fixate fixated on those. And I can be like, where is this? Okay, go talk to this person. But we need to be doing that across all clients to. To then start to really become what we tell them, which is, you’ll never find a data consultancy that is going to be as honest as we are, and deliver as fast as we are right. And that’s what I really really believe. And clients know that that’s why a lot of clients really love us because
90 00:20:46.750 ⇒ 00:20:47.949 Uttam Kumaran: we do.
91 00:20:48.770 ⇒ 00:20:52.839 Uttam Kumaran: We execute on that on that promise? However.
92 00:20:53.050 ⇒ 00:20:54.699 Uttam Kumaran: I still think we could do way better.
93 00:20:56.160 ⇒ 00:21:08.800 Uttam Kumaran: so that’s that’s sort of long story about where we think this this role would fit in terms of the current project management structure. Again, I also, you know, I don’t know. I don’t. I’m not sure yet what the ratio of
94 00:21:08.800 ⇒ 00:21:32.059 Uttam Kumaran: clients or project managers are. We also have some clients that are smaller, some clients that are a bit larger. But again, my hope is that by filling this role I’ll be able, and me. Rob will step a little bit above, and sort of see and understand. How do we can best serve the people in the company? Whether it’s more people, whether it’s better process like, that’s where we need to be looking, you know, at the machine.
95 00:21:32.840 ⇒ 00:21:42.879 steven: Yeah, no, that makes sense, too. And I think it is important, for you know, you know, project manager and and technical to kind of, like, you know, be 2 different things right? Cause. Then it’s like, you know.
96 00:21:43.070 ⇒ 00:22:04.339 steven: it’s a worry that you know, you guys don’t have to worry about. It’s something that you know. You can focus on other things right? Because then I’m the one who, you know, who would essentially be the one who would, or the project manager be the one to come in and execute all that stuff. And then that’s you know. Stress off, you know, someone else’s back right? And then it’s, you know, up to them to kind of, you know.
97 00:22:04.820 ⇒ 00:22:31.660 steven: focus in on like certain, you know, areas and dates in order to, you know. See how you know you collaborate, you know, with, you know the engineers. In order to like structure, the work and everything. Without, you know, having to worry about client communication getting details. You know, because one of the things I do is right, like I said to. It’s like that you know communication and understanding of like, you know, when things are due and things are behind, you know I I have a good understanding of.
98 00:22:31.660 ⇒ 00:22:40.329 steven: you know, knowing that if you know who knows what happens, you know. So projects running late, and we have a certain deadline. Right? You know, it’s it’s up to.
99 00:22:40.500 ⇒ 00:23:05.660 steven: You know me to kind of, you know. Push that conversation right, you know, using that, you know. Kind of squeaky hammer to make sure that we’re getting all the information we can out of them, you know, with, with, you know, certain aspects of it, too. Right? Cause you know this, they’re paying to have this done right. Don’t they want time? You know, I I gotta make sure that I essentially say that in a way, but yeah, I think one of the things that I do well is working with my team is is
100 00:23:05.951 ⇒ 00:23:24.819 steven: coming in and eliminating, you know extra time that they would have to spend that. I take that over, and I work and manage the project, and essentially give them everything they need on a platter. You know they don’t really have to ask for anything. You know. They kind of just, you know, can have what you know, have everything ready for them, you know.
101 00:23:25.030 ⇒ 00:23:31.339 steven: and go and go along with it, too. I think that that’s like one of my strong suits, like the hospitality aspect of it.
102 00:23:31.971 ⇒ 00:23:38.669 steven: So I think that’s, you know, pretty interesting, too. So I know you mentioned, you guys have like 7 clients, I guess, like.
103 00:23:39.180 ⇒ 00:23:46.490 steven: you know, with this role, be managing all 7 of these clients. I guess you know. What if you could walk me through like
104 00:23:46.640 ⇒ 00:23:58.670 steven: you know the funnel of, like, you know, signing a client, you know the project manager, you know. Are they working with onboarding or off boarding, or anything, I guess, like the life cycle of a client.
105 00:23:59.390 ⇒ 00:24:03.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so you know, I think it it.
106 00:24:03.270 ⇒ 00:24:14.469 Uttam Kumaran: I think it basically depends on in terms of the number of clients, basically on what capacity looks like. So we would probably just start small and sort of expand from there in terms of lifecycle client.
107 00:24:14.972 ⇒ 00:24:31.060 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we. Typically, it takes anywhere from like one to 4 meetings to close clients. Typically by the last meeting we try to sort of either alert the project manager or or ideally bring them onto that last
108 00:24:31.100 ⇒ 00:24:45.472 Uttam Kumaran: call one. It helps our team to sort of get familiar with, Hey, these guys will. We may potentially work with them for them. They get a chance to meet. You know you’re a human being, and it helps close the deal better. Which I I love to do
109 00:24:45.920 ⇒ 00:25:08.090 Uttam Kumaran: again like I was an engineer for a while and worked on, and I felt like sometimes I’d work on things, and you would never get the luxury of knowing like how it actually made a business impact. And that’s the opposite of what I want to do for our engineers. Like, I want them to know that their work is actually going to make a difference, that they’re not just taking tickets off a backlog and
110 00:25:08.300 ⇒ 00:25:20.350 Uttam Kumaran: sort of being like peace. Because there’s gonna come a time where they need to think critically about what the work they’re doing and how it fits into a larger system, and the way I describe it is sort of like when you pick the trash up off the floor like.
111 00:25:20.490 ⇒ 00:25:43.340 Uttam Kumaran: I want people to think our clients there we’re we’re an extension of their company, right? We’re taking care of their company. And so I try to make sure the team is fully aware of the situation. And so for the Pm. And I think it would sort of be at that last step. Basically, I think, since until from between signing and starting. It’s usually anywhere from like 2 weeks to a month. Sometimes people have like
112 00:25:43.700 ⇒ 00:26:07.070 Uttam Kumaran: certain company things or whatever but then, yeah, we get like slack connects spun up, we get like one password, Google accounts, access to everything. We create notion which is what we use for, like all of our tickets right now. And then we sort of just like execute. So we we do typically one meeting a week. When the project starts, we do kick off
113 00:26:07.483 ⇒ 00:26:12.040 Uttam Kumaran: ideally. It’s sort of based on the plan that they have. We switch from hourly to sort of
114 00:26:12.270 ⇒ 00:26:37.650 Uttam Kumaran: like we have these 2 fixed packages. So based on what they’re in. I, we sort of give guidance to the engineers and, like you roughly, have this many hours again. Some work, you data work is tough because you don’t know sometimes what the issue is until you’re in there. But roughly, I I give people like some range of guidance on how many hours to spend on a given client. That’s something that like
115 00:26:37.710 ⇒ 00:26:42.529 Uttam Kumaran: would definitely fall under, I think. Purview of the project manager. Which is this, like budget.
116 00:26:42.923 ⇒ 00:26:53.840 Uttam Kumaran: The nice thing is, it allows us to say, to go to the client and say, Hey, we’ve been executing really? Well, we just haven’t been able to get to this next project in time.
117 00:26:53.950 ⇒ 00:27:05.489 Uttam Kumaran: Would could we increase budget? So we can start to add that stuff on right. That helps us with that conversation? And so ideally, that’s just it. So you have allocated a few like one to 3 people, and then
118 00:27:05.720 ⇒ 00:27:25.139 Uttam Kumaran: we start to take tasks on and typically, it’s it’s usually like 2 big rocks at any moment. And you know, we also, we do both stuff that’s sort of like fixing the today, but then also doing infrastructure work and larger things that clients may not see the benefit of
119 00:27:25.410 ⇒ 00:27:44.019 Uttam Kumaran: until we. But it helps like grease. The wheels on everything. So we try to do couple what couple of those the same time? Because it buys us like, if they need a dashboard today, we’re gonna get that done. However, whatever it takes, we may skip some steps, but we know the steps we’re skipping, and we’re sort of like trying to also work on that.
120 00:27:44.120 ⇒ 00:28:07.769 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the difference, I think, than most data engineers. If they were to hire a data engineer, that person would definitely go and just work on the infrastructure stuff that they’re gonna need to be like this needs to be scalable. Blah! Blah! If you’re gonna hire a data analyst, it’s opposite. They’ll just work on the dashboard. But, like have no understanding of like how to build like a scale like a sustainable infrastructure for more analyst questions.
121 00:28:07.940 ⇒ 00:28:20.349 Uttam Kumaran: and with data them. Once you start enjoying the data and you start using it, all you have is more questions. So we help clients like really set the stage for that motion. And so
122 00:28:20.560 ⇒ 00:28:35.830 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the sort of type of work that we then kick off. And then it’s basically like as we get closer to the renewal date. We start to have conversations about what’s the next scope of work? How do we do on like time? We spent versus budget stuff like that.
123 00:28:36.460 ⇒ 00:28:39.473 steven: Okay, yeah, that’s that’s good to know, too.
124 00:28:40.860 ⇒ 00:29:05.476 steven: yeah. And like, within, like the dashboard, right? I guess, like, you know, in terms of project managing. Right? I you know it’s opening tickets and and managing all that, you know, like timeline structure. Do you guys have like a timeline structure of like when you kick things off right like you have like a certain date, and then like within like, then it’s like me managing like, you know a certain timeline or
125 00:29:06.600 ⇒ 00:29:07.110 steven: Yeah.
126 00:29:07.110 ⇒ 00:29:10.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, so I guess there’s 2 things, one.
127 00:29:10.700 ⇒ 00:29:15.686 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of our clients don’t know how long things take in data.
128 00:29:16.220 ⇒ 00:29:26.679 Uttam Kumaran: we’re we don’t come into situations where they have everything figured out, one of which is how to set expectations for your data team. So we have the luxury of being able to
129 00:29:26.810 ⇒ 00:29:39.300 Uttam Kumaran: like, set that for them, which is really great. Right? I think the I think one thing you know, is that it just requires communication and setting expectations. It requires knowing that, hey.
130 00:29:39.450 ⇒ 00:29:53.610 Uttam Kumaran: we’re waiting on 3 data sources until we get those we can’t. There’s no dashboard to be built. And so we may get 2 of them. And then there’s still one that’s like lingering on someone that left the company, or we gotta talk to a vendor. So those are the typical hiccups.
131 00:29:53.975 ⇒ 00:30:13.404 Uttam Kumaran: But there’s still a dashboard or part of it. You could build it just the 2 sources right? But we sort of set the stage for a timeline like for me. I I sort of am overseeing all the engineering work right now, like across all of our clients, so I can work with you to give you a sense of like how long things should be taking
132 00:30:14.340 ⇒ 00:30:24.770 Uttam Kumaran: But then, for in terms of the client side, we help them. We we set that roadmap with them. Of course, like most of our engagements right now, are in the 3 month range, I don’t think
133 00:30:25.070 ⇒ 00:30:31.599 Uttam Kumaran: unless unless it’s like something crazy. Typically, we were able to work with that pretty successfully.
134 00:30:31.980 ⇒ 00:30:38.480 Uttam Kumaran: And we don’t have work that’s like we don’t have any work that’s sort of like in the 6 month range. So most stuff is like
135 00:30:38.940 ⇒ 00:30:56.009 Uttam Kumaran: any sort of big rocks, maybe 2 to 3 months, where it’s like, we need a dashboard. And we have no data for, okay, we have to go ingest a bunch of stuff model a bunch of stuff, then build it. Yeah, some sort of pass hands, that sort of thing. But otherwise we’re we’re setting the timeline and sort of giving guidance on what they should expect.
136 00:30:56.500 ⇒ 00:31:07.819 steven: Okay, cool. Yeah. And I know, I think, like, you guys like utilize like templates and everything for like timelines. Right? So it’s just like, you know, upcoming like uploading new templates and then managing that time, you know, how
137 00:31:07.990 ⇒ 00:31:10.379 steven: like, do I guess? Yeah, like.
138 00:31:10.850 ⇒ 00:31:29.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think I kind of get what you’re saying. So we’re using like, so we use clockify for for employees like track for the for engineers tracking time to clients. We do have ticket templates in terms of timeline templates. You would probably work with the engagement, lead on that basically, that person would be like, Okay.
139 00:31:29.440 ⇒ 00:31:32.499 Uttam Kumaran: here’s roughly like the 5 or 6 like
140 00:31:32.710 ⇒ 00:31:40.750 Uttam Kumaran: technical things that need to happen. And like, here’s probably the estimate on like, how long this is gonna take and yeah,
141 00:31:41.450 ⇒ 00:31:44.649 Uttam Kumaran: that’s that’s typically the process right now.
142 00:31:44.650 ⇒ 00:31:46.220 steven: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, too.
143 00:31:46.220 ⇒ 00:31:57.809 Uttam Kumaran: And the last thing is also cli. Our clients so far haven’t. They’re not so interested in like seeing every ticket and sort of getting burned down charts and stuff like that. That’s really not their concern. Their concern is
144 00:31:57.980 ⇒ 00:32:01.079 Uttam Kumaran: being able to get accurate data, and
145 00:32:01.520 ⇒ 00:32:07.350 Uttam Kumaran: the you know the best like. No, they only care about the burned out if they don’t trust that we’re doing anything.
146 00:32:07.370 ⇒ 00:32:08.220 Uttam Kumaran: So
147 00:32:08.220 ⇒ 00:32:20.489 Uttam Kumaran: we we luckily have not had clients like that. But sometimes it takes. Sometimes the problem we’ve had is like we get to a point where we’re working on something, and then we don’t communicate for like 3 days. It’s not like we weren’t doing anything except
148 00:32:20.740 ⇒ 00:32:24.059 Uttam Kumaran: they just didn’t hear from us. And they maybe they were like
149 00:32:24.250 ⇒ 00:32:33.310 Uttam Kumaran: thinking about something in data. And they were like this, I wish you guys checked in or like I didn’t wasn’t really clear, you know, something happened. So that’s the sort of hiccups that we get into.
150 00:32:33.440 ⇒ 00:32:41.549 steven: Yeah, for sure, too. And I I you know road mapping that, too, you know. I don’t know how, if it’s something that, like, you know.
151 00:32:41.710 ⇒ 00:32:46.640 steven: would benefit, you know, with data and everything. But you know, I think one thing that’s
152 00:32:47.160 ⇒ 00:33:11.420 steven: you know, you can utilize is, you know, like setting like certain like statuses for clients, and just like letting them know, like, you know, a week roadmap right like, hey, like this week, you know, it’s happening, you know, because I do that with my clients right where I give them, like, you know, just like a heads up like, Hey, these things are coming in this week, too. I think that’s important and and good to utilize. So you know I do that, too, and just like kind of bouncing back off like time tracking, too. Right like.
153 00:33:11.672 ⇒ 00:33:24.809 steven: You know, I work with like our Cfo on, like, you know, time tracking and like looking at Budget and seeing like if we’re over under, too. So I think that’s kind of important to like, you know, taking in that information, you know, tracking it. And then, you know, building out.
154 00:33:25.170 ⇒ 00:33:35.699 steven: you know the you know, future clients, you know, portfolios and everything like that, because that’s, gonna you know, utilize how you you know. Go about, you know, making more money.
155 00:33:35.700 ⇒ 00:33:36.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, that’s.
156 00:33:36.820 ⇒ 00:33:43.910 steven: Important, too, in a way of like, you know, building out projects, too, is also like looking at. Like, you know, the risks and issues. You know you have
157 00:33:44.470 ⇒ 00:33:56.369 steven: and kind of just, you know. Take track of that, you know. Just come, you know every project you you execute. You know the next one you’re gonna execute better, if more efficient. And
158 00:33:57.200 ⇒ 00:34:00.650 steven: you know, with with things, you know, you know, almost.
159 00:34:00.890 ⇒ 00:34:03.420 steven: you know, having more information and research in mind
160 00:34:04.030 ⇒ 00:34:12.129 steven: things. And and I think that’s important. I always try to do that when I, you know, kick off my next projects and everything. So that’s kind of important.
161 00:34:12.460 ⇒ 00:34:15.289 Uttam Kumaran: I guess I have 2 questions. So one is like,
162 00:34:17.040 ⇒ 00:34:25.949 Uttam Kumaran: like, how do you feel trying like moving it? Potentially moving into something that’s more on the data side and more technical in terms of the deliverable.
163 00:34:27.330 ⇒ 00:34:40.390 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m not saying I think the work you guys like I work a lot of marketing people. It’s it’s it’s like, equally as complex, I would say. But you know what I mean. It’s a different flavor of ice cream, maybe like, what? What do you think about that? And like.
164 00:34:41.016 ⇒ 00:34:42.879 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I guess. Like
165 00:34:43.489 ⇒ 00:34:55.730 Uttam Kumaran: of course I of course you could. I think the right. The right answer, maybe, is like I can handle whatever. But I guess what I’m trying to think of is, did you think about sort of any differences there and like may what what some challenges may be.
166 00:34:56.480 ⇒ 00:35:01.665 steven: Yeah, I mean, you know, when it comes to it, it’s it’s it’s 2 different things.
167 00:35:02.470 ⇒ 00:35:27.269 steven: like you said I can handle it but then it’s like it’s just it’s just jumping in, and it’s it’s learning it. Figuring out like you know how the clock ticks and and how you know, you know, past and previous experience will, you know, translate to that? And then, once that’s understood right? It’s then, you know, bringing that up to, you know, a frequency that I understand, and everything too. So I think you know
168 00:35:27.450 ⇒ 00:35:33.329 steven: the the main aspect of it is, you know it. At the end of the day. It is, you know.
169 00:35:34.220 ⇒ 00:35:39.450 steven: Project managing it. It’s it’s, you know, like you said, it’s different flavors of ice cream.
170 00:35:39.952 ⇒ 00:36:04.129 steven: You know, I I think it comes down to just me being able to communicate me. Being able to, you know, utilize people’s time and looking at everything that’s, you know happening and being proactive, to be able to like, understand, and, you know, jump in on things and getting people the things they need. Right? Like, you know those are similar in a way. You know, it’s just, you know, 2 different, you know, beasts that you know.
171 00:36:04.450 ⇒ 00:36:10.679 steven: You know you manage so it it is. You know, the thing you deliver is different. But
172 00:36:11.090 ⇒ 00:36:15.526 steven: you know I do think you know it’s it’s similarities with
173 00:36:16.490 ⇒ 00:36:25.150 steven: you know, getting that content and getting that, you know, info and data. You know it. It’s it’s all just, you know, pushing that timeline so.
174 00:36:25.460 ⇒ 00:36:38.699 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess my second question is sort of like, what do you? What do you think about for your like career in in Pm. World or beyond, like, are you, I guess? Tell me about how you think about that like, are you more
175 00:36:39.040 ⇒ 00:36:50.804 Uttam Kumaran: curious about like leading a product like a project function with like several? Is it more about taking on tougher challenges or larger clients like, I guess if you put any thought to that.
176 00:36:51.340 ⇒ 00:36:52.809 Uttam Kumaran: would love to hear about that.
177 00:36:53.330 ⇒ 00:37:18.714 steven: Yeah, my thing is just I. Wanna you know, I wanna be attached to something where I provide, you know, hospitality in some sort of, you know, being able to help people, you know, do their job better where I can like function as like a way to communicate, and you know, have them not worry about that communication where I can kind of jump in and be the one to take over like some responsibility. I think that I kind of get a kick out of that
178 00:37:19.200 ⇒ 00:37:20.779 Uttam Kumaran: You know just that notion of.
179 00:37:20.790 ⇒ 00:37:49.670 steven: You know, being able to you know, be a support system for people. That’s kind of like, you know. My main focus is I I think you know. You know, when it comes to communication, internally and externally right, like, you know, being a a familiar face for people to like, see and enjoy talking to and like knowing that they like gonna ask you questions. And you know, I’ll be able to provide answers. I think that’s important, too. In terms of growing right? I think it’s just like I really wanna just like, you know, jump in on like the next
180 00:37:49.990 ⇒ 00:38:12.130 steven: you know the next, you know, big thing, and keep on growing, you know, with with everything too. Right? Like, you know. I you know social media is, you know, cool and everything. But you know, data and analytics. Right? That’s always gonna be, you know, a thing. And you know, with AI, right, it’s all it’s it’s all growing. And it’s it’s it’s, you know, it’s it’s here. Say so, you know, definitely like, you know, going to and from, you know.
181 00:38:12.450 ⇒ 00:38:13.690 steven: you know different
182 00:38:13.850 ⇒ 00:38:32.290 steven: things that are gonna have like pushing power through the future, I think, is important and going into, you know, to be more of like an operational, you know. Position to, you know, help and manage everyone you know to be, you know, kind of like the main structure. You know the the iron, the iron rod in the building, you know.
183 00:38:32.290 ⇒ 00:38:33.240 steven: to have
184 00:38:33.240 ⇒ 00:38:39.910 steven: everyone else, you know, you know, lather all the everything up and build out. So yeah, I think that’s important. So.
185 00:38:40.110 ⇒ 00:38:47.369 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I mean, yeah, you said a couple of good things. One is like, Yeah, I think this business primarily is
186 00:38:47.780 ⇒ 00:38:49.469 Uttam Kumaran: branding great people
187 00:38:49.590 ⇒ 00:39:10.437 Uttam Kumaran: organizing them in the right way and getting really tough problems for them to work on right. And that’s fundamentally like what we do. And each one of those needs to work, you know, really, really well, and our ability to go after tougher problems where we can make more money, we can have longer guarantees, and we can attract better talent, and then, therefore, sort of loop.
188 00:39:10.800 ⇒ 00:39:24.939 Uttam Kumaran: this sort of making sure we can execute is is really really core. I think, additionally, yeah, I mean, that’s also the reason. Like I, we got into AI stuff here. I started the company as like, focused on data analytics. But
189 00:39:25.320 ⇒ 00:39:31.139 Uttam Kumaran: we started using a lot of AI stuff internally, you know, to automate brain forge. And then I was like.
190 00:39:31.420 ⇒ 00:39:56.580 Uttam Kumaran: where this stuff is a lot harder than you know, it seems, and we should go see if other clients need help with this sort of stuff. So we already have one big home home Home Service Home and Commercial Services company that’s based in Austin. They’re like one of the most well known home services companies in Austin. We’re helping their customer service team build a bunch of stuff in AI, and the fun there is like there’s no answer on like how to
191 00:39:57.020 ⇒ 00:40:15.480 Uttam Kumaran: like manage these things, or like how to organize a team against it, right? Even the talent that we have are all new to the technology which makes it fun? Because you can sort of figure out, okay, what are the are there common tasks that we need to do? How do we break this down? And we’re gonna and again, once we
192 00:40:15.630 ⇒ 00:40:37.020 Uttam Kumaran: win for them, we’re gonna look to expand and sort of do AI for a bunch of people. And the AI stuff is great because we’re using technology that came out like 6 months ago, like, there’s nobody that like can tell you how long things can take, which is fun. But also there’s a it’s challenging, right? Like I on the data side, I know how thing long things could take on the AI side. Sometimes we’re like.
193 00:40:37.330 ⇒ 00:40:49.080 Uttam Kumaran: what kind of like need to. It’s sort of like a domino. I don’t know right? And so, but that’s the thing that if they were to go to. They may go to like a Mckinsey and have to pay like a couple of 1 million dollars for.
194 00:40:49.310 ⇒ 00:41:06.600 Uttam Kumaran: and if they try to look elsewhere, there’s nobody right. Your only options of like hire like a freelance engineer. So that’s where really we come in. And even on the data side, it’s still a challenge like we find clients every day that have the same data challenges. I’ve been solving like for 5 years.
195 00:41:06.988 ⇒ 00:41:17.480 Uttam Kumaran: Which is amazing, because I know that we can nail that. And it’s it’ll be amazing to then get them to like predictive analytics, machine learning, help them with AI and
196 00:41:17.510 ⇒ 00:41:25.260 Uttam Kumaran: like attract the best talent that could do that right. And I don’t think also our company. I think a lot of consulting companies and agencies.
197 00:41:25.577 ⇒ 00:41:48.980 Uttam Kumaran: You know, I’ve I’ve just been involved with. Know some that run them and been startup land like they’re always like, really, sometimes crazy, like, oh, clients freaking out clients freaking out like, I’ve always worked in data. Data is fundamentally a service organization for the businesses that it supports. And so I’m really used to working with executives and things being on fire and blah blah, but that’s like not how our company operates.
198 00:41:49.000 ⇒ 00:42:12.229 Uttam Kumaran: There, of course, are moments of up, but it’s also equal moments of down. And so you try to keep even. I’ve been a lot of companies where it’s like, only up. And it’s like, you know, you burn out, even if it’s you’re motivated by the challenge burns everybody out. So that’s also one thing that’s really core to us is like trying to build business that’s sustainable, not only like cash wise.
199 00:42:12.350 ⇒ 00:42:23.182 Uttam Kumaran: but it’s like, Okay, it’s it’s not. You don’t have to come to work and like freak out or be nervous, right? And I don’t know. I really got irked by a lot of that when I worked in startup world and
200 00:42:23.580 ⇒ 00:42:26.740 Uttam Kumaran: trying to root a lot of that negativity out from this company.
201 00:42:27.710 ⇒ 00:42:48.609 steven: Yeah, no, that I’ve I’ve had that experience, too, of just like, you know, knowing that, like, you know, you see, you know, kind of like the downhill movement of everything, too. And you know, it’s like, Okay, like, how’s this gonna move forward? But you know, I I think you know, it seems like you guys are. You know, the pioneers on all this, too. You know, you get the early experience of like AI and everything, you know, that’s really.
202 00:42:48.730 ⇒ 00:42:53.820 steven: you know, that’s really neat and cool. And you know, that is, it’s cool to see it move like that. So
203 00:42:54.441 ⇒ 00:42:57.208 steven: yeah, I think it’s really interesting.
204 00:42:58.280 ⇒ 00:43:13.589 steven: yeah. So I know, you guys are, you know, I know you mentioned like you’re not, you know, trying to like the startup and everything. But like with that like, are you guys like, you guys just work off like pretty much as contracts. And you’ve just been like starting, you know, small work your way up, or is it like, you guys have series funding or.
205 00:43:14.020 ⇒ 00:43:23.369 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So where it’s all bootstrapped. I just had savings, and I sort of for what I had. I’ve worked at a lot of Vc backed.
206 00:43:24.830 ⇒ 00:43:36.120 Uttam Kumaran: you know, like companies that raise equity funding and I sort of veered against it. Primarily because it sort of creates just like
207 00:43:36.200 ⇒ 00:43:56.250 Uttam Kumaran: tons of bad incentives for the business owners in terms of growing unsustainably. That being said it’s been. Really, it’s really hard to make money sort of come out of thin air. Luckily, though, we are having this month will be our best month we’ve ever had. And last month was the best month before that.
208 00:43:56.320 ⇒ 00:44:17.309 Uttam Kumaran: And so over the last 6 months, we’re, we’ve really been growing. And we’ve really been narrowing down our focus into a couple of different sectors as well as getting sharper on the sort of services that we do. The, I would say. The only reason we aren’t growing faster is probably our nervousness about taking on
209 00:44:17.530 ⇒ 00:44:22.289 Uttam Kumaran: more clients. Right? And so I don’t see. I think
210 00:44:22.630 ⇒ 00:44:32.379 Uttam Kumaran: there’s 2 things one like for the people in the company. I want this to be a really great outcome, like, I don’t want this to be another startup where you join, and you’re sort of like.
211 00:44:32.510 ⇒ 00:44:47.569 Uttam Kumaran: get sold. A story of this could be really big. And then you’re like, by the time you’re even get close, that you’re like these people suck. I wanna leave I actually want I would love to, you know, make this a serious like outcome for everybody to
212 00:44:47.680 ⇒ 00:45:00.015 Uttam Kumaran: benefit in the growth of the company. Of course. Right now, we’re really just focused on making sure that we have, like 6 months of cash runway and like being like financially, you know, really stable there.
213 00:45:00.580 ⇒ 00:45:21.140 Uttam Kumaran: but that we’re not. We’re not raising any funding soon, I mean, I feel like we with our current margins and with our current business prospects and our growth. We could. I would probably need to be told a compelling reason why? Because the problem just like we talked about
214 00:45:21.530 ⇒ 00:45:24.330 Uttam Kumaran: raising funding sets a lot of expectations.
215 00:45:24.813 ⇒ 00:45:35.139 Uttam Kumaran: And it changes. It may affect the way I we run the company right. All those things I talked about. If let’s say we want to go from where we are now to
216 00:45:35.500 ⇒ 00:45:42.789 Uttam Kumaran: 50 times bigger in X timeline like, it changes a lot of the way we have to work. And
217 00:45:42.950 ⇒ 00:45:48.149 Uttam Kumaran: I I don’t know. I worry a lot about that when I’m trying to bring on people that
218 00:45:48.290 ⇒ 00:45:57.520 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve been burned by a situation like that, and I have as well. And I don’t know. I think fundamentally, we believe in that. There’s a need in the market for the services we have.
219 00:45:57.700 ⇒ 00:46:00.150 Uttam Kumaran: Of course, the only thing is how fast?
220 00:46:00.614 ⇒ 00:46:10.350 Uttam Kumaran: But when, again, when, if your if your equity stakeholders are just us in the company that we make that decision as a crew, and that’s what I’m much more interested in.
221 00:46:10.760 ⇒ 00:46:29.449 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t know. Like I it’s a it’s sort of a recurring conversation. I would say, like there was a moment where we were like I was like running out of money in my fidelity, and I’m like, you know we should go after something. Now it’s a it’s a little bit of a different story. But yeah, I don’t know. That’s sort of a transparent look.
222 00:46:29.570 ⇒ 00:46:31.759 Uttam Kumaran: it’s my brain on that topic. So.
223 00:46:31.760 ⇒ 00:46:37.119 steven: Yeah, no, that that’s cool, you know. It’s like it’s like, it’s an option. But like you don’t need to do it, you know, that’s.
224 00:46:37.120 ⇒ 00:46:45.279 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how you want it to be. It’s like you don’t want to. You don’t want to do anything out of desperation, especially give away equity in the company
225 00:46:46.730 ⇒ 00:46:51.139 Uttam Kumaran: and especially for me. It’s giving away equity to people who are just a check
226 00:46:51.450 ⇒ 00:47:00.069 Uttam Kumaran: right? And so for me, if we do give away money. It needs to be very compelling in terms of our roi, our roi on that right.
227 00:47:00.770 ⇒ 00:47:13.169 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t care about. I care about it, but I I care about our company winning, not just being portfolio right? And so I don’t know I don’t. It’s not clear to me that we need to do that in order to win
228 00:47:14.350 ⇒ 00:47:26.970 Uttam Kumaran: I think if we do that the stakes get a little bit different. And winning may be further out of sight right? And part of this business is sort of hedging risk, ultimately and so every step of the way we try to
229 00:47:27.410 ⇒ 00:47:40.609 Uttam Kumaran: decrease the risk of of every every next decision and sort of build. Sustainably. However, we’ve only been in business since, Joe, like we got our 1st dollar in end of July 23
230 00:47:42.190 ⇒ 00:47:48.160 Uttam Kumaran: And we are now 15 people in like a year, a year and a half.
231 00:47:48.808 ⇒ 00:47:55.729 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re doing a bunch of stuff with a bunch of clients that are well known, that are all like between 10 to 100 million dollar brands like
232 00:47:55.840 ⇒ 00:48:04.239 Uttam Kumaran: we move pretty quickly with no, with like nobody. So I don’t know. I feel I feel. Okay. Of course we can move faster, but
233 00:48:04.560 ⇒ 00:48:07.270 Uttam Kumaran: I feel proud of what we’ve been able to do. So.
234 00:48:08.830 ⇒ 00:48:12.930 steven: Yeah, it’s awesome. That’s that’s good to hear, you know. Good. A good foundation. So
235 00:48:13.580 ⇒ 00:48:14.859 steven: yeah, it’s really neat to hear.
236 00:48:16.150 ⇒ 00:48:19.230 steven: Yeah, I think just in terms of like, you know.
237 00:48:19.540 ⇒ 00:48:25.935 steven: company culture and everything too right? Like I mean, it’s it seems like it’s all remote, right, you know. It’s all.
238 00:48:26.700 ⇒ 00:48:32.380 steven: you know. I think Robert was in New York, I mean, are most of you guys in Austin, or kind of scattered throughout.
239 00:48:32.590 ⇒ 00:48:34.406 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s a good question.
240 00:48:35.030 ⇒ 00:48:44.159 Uttam Kumaran: we? It’s sort of around the world we have some people in in. La. I’m here. I’m the only one here in Austin we have a few people in New York.
241 00:48:44.681 ⇒ 00:48:49.550 Uttam Kumaran: We have a few people in the Philippines. We have one person in Latin. We may bring on someone in Spain.
242 00:48:49.700 ⇒ 00:48:55.060 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s for me. It’s sort of a function of cost, but also sort of a function of
243 00:48:55.680 ⇒ 00:49:00.790 Uttam Kumaran: if if I meet people that are capable. I I’m open to giving people opportunity wherever they’re at.
244 00:49:00.990 ⇒ 00:49:06.590 Uttam Kumaran: I think, definitely for customer facing roles. We’re leaning more towards us.
245 00:49:07.047 ⇒ 00:49:09.510 Uttam Kumaran: And I, but I don’t know whether we’ll
246 00:49:09.760 ⇒ 00:49:15.150 Uttam Kumaran: center it on anything. I think a lot of companies are
247 00:49:15.720 ⇒ 00:49:27.889 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of companies are doing like return to office and go to one place like, I don’t think we’re that’s gonna have any effect on us being successful or not. So I think most companies are just compensating for a deeper systemic issue.
248 00:49:27.890 ⇒ 00:49:32.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and but it’s tough. It’s like, if you’ve hired a hundred 1,000 people, then
249 00:49:33.140 ⇒ 00:49:35.040 Uttam Kumaran: like you may not have any way of like
250 00:49:35.360 ⇒ 00:49:43.100 Uttam Kumaran: curtailing that other than saying like, Let’s go back to the office. The nice thing is, we are pretty careful, and try to like hire.
251 00:49:43.510 ⇒ 00:50:06.279 Uttam Kumaran: Almost we try to. We’re always sort of interviewing and like, even for data like, we have a lot of people that want to work. But then sort of making the call right when it starts to get a little bit painful. That way, you know, there’s a real need. But also, we, we have people that are that can solve the problem. And so yeah, we we will. We’ll we’ll stay remote, I mean, for the folks in the Us. Though I want to try
252 00:50:06.420 ⇒ 00:50:14.282 Uttam Kumaran: to get people to Austin. I wanted with for folks in New York to meet together, and then folks in on the West Coast.
253 00:50:15.100 ⇒ 00:50:29.380 Uttam Kumaran: but again, we we sort of do have like daily stand up. We have, like we company weekly meetings on Monday, Friday, where we go through Okrs, Demos talk through clients and then for each team for the AI team and the data team, we have a daily stand up.
254 00:50:29.660 ⇒ 00:50:35.320 Uttam Kumaran: The marketing team has has a couple of meetings. Sales team has a couple of meetings.
255 00:50:35.805 ⇒ 00:50:50.004 Uttam Kumaran: And so we usually make it work. In fact, the only probably the only thing is we’re moving more from part time engineers to full time engineers, I think in the early days it’s sort of like what we could afford but now,
256 00:50:50.540 ⇒ 00:51:01.862 Uttam Kumaran: In order to make sure that we can respond to client requests intraday, especially on things that are small, we want to make sure that we have engineers that are available. And so that’s probably the only thing
257 00:51:02.290 ⇒ 00:51:09.499 Uttam Kumaran: and of course, like sometimes it’s time, zones and things like that, but everybody so far has been accommodating to work mostly Us. Time zone.
258 00:51:09.770 ⇒ 00:51:11.690 steven: Oh, cool. It’s good to hear. Yeah.
259 00:51:11.840 ⇒ 00:51:30.170 steven: yeah. I mean, I think it’s really neat, you know. Seems like, you know, really enjoy talking to, you know, like give like a passion with everything you know. It’s it’s it’s kind of, you know, good to hear that, you know. I feel like a lot of you know companies, you know, when you’re talking to someone, you really don’t get the background passion to drive with it, too. So that’s really cool and.
260 00:51:30.170 ⇒ 00:51:35.660 Uttam Kumaran: Appreciate it. Yeah, I never thought I’d be in this business. Really, I never thought I’d be in consulting.
261 00:51:35.900 ⇒ 00:51:47.510 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like an engineer. And so really, if you let me go, I would just be doing data work all day. But I therefore I am opinionated about how engineers work at our company, and how the people work.
262 00:51:47.690 ⇒ 00:51:52.220 Uttam Kumaran: And so really, you know, there’s some things we can do, some things we can’t do, but
263 00:51:52.430 ⇒ 00:51:55.560 Uttam Kumaran: we try our best for the things that we can affect, you know so.
264 00:51:55.560 ⇒ 00:52:03.600 steven: Yeah, yeah, that’s cool. I guess, in terms of like, you know, like salary wise, you know. What’s you know? What’s the budget you guys have allotted for this role.
265 00:52:04.442 ⇒ 00:52:12.257 Uttam Kumaran: We’re sort of I I would have to defer a little bit to Robert on that. I think there’s some 2 components, though. One
266 00:52:13.620 ⇒ 00:52:18.569 Uttam Kumaran: we wanna establish someone in this role. We want to make a really compelling offer to like, I don’t want.
267 00:52:18.830 ⇒ 00:52:22.170 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want money to be
268 00:52:22.460 ⇒ 00:52:41.710 Uttam Kumaran: the the I mean again. I the way I’ve worked in the past is if you’re always thinking about money and that sort of shadows, everything. So for me, I want to make whoever is in this role a compelling offer. The second thing is, we’re working on what an employee, equity, pool or profit share system could be and how that gets tied into our company. Okrs.
269 00:52:42.148 ⇒ 00:52:56.789 Uttam Kumaran: that’s something that we’re not complete on yet. For all the reasons. I stated where my, just, we just haven’t had any time to do it. But the nice thing is we do have Okrs now. And we basically want to create a system where
270 00:52:57.293 ⇒ 00:53:18.159 Uttam Kumaran: everyone in the company, and potentially, even the client pod gets benefited from the company making money, whether it’s clients renewing whether it’s client upsells, whether it’s overall company profit. We do want that to be a meaningful percentage, and not just like a guaranteed
271 00:53:18.550 ⇒ 00:53:20.889 Uttam Kumaran: bonus at the end of the year, but something
272 00:53:21.020 ⇒ 00:53:30.869 Uttam Kumaran: meaningfully on some velocity and reward. Folks that stick with the company, and and sort of promise that as the company wins like everybody wins.
273 00:53:31.341 ⇒ 00:53:38.379 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s probably what I can say now, I think, probably for next steps we’ll get back to you with with some details on that
274 00:53:40.050 ⇒ 00:53:42.500 Uttam Kumaran: But I mean for me, it would be
275 00:53:42.740 ⇒ 00:53:49.260 Uttam Kumaran: helpful if you can share what would be a number or a range that would make you be like, okay, I’m I’m
276 00:53:49.680 ⇒ 00:53:54.650 Uttam Kumaran: beyond the work, beyond the stuff like that, like this would be something that
277 00:53:56.510 ⇒ 00:54:02.749 Uttam Kumaran: like would make me would allow me to focus every day at work, and really just come in super strong and
278 00:54:03.107 ⇒ 00:54:08.800 Uttam Kumaran: you know, try to stick with us for the long term, like, if you can provide anything there that would be really, really helpful.
279 00:54:09.220 ⇒ 00:54:21.899 steven: Yeah, I think you know, you know, with you know, I really enjoy and love what I do. So I think you know some somewhere between, you know, like 125 to 1 50 is like, I think, would be comfortable for me, and I think that really help me engage and everything so.
280 00:54:21.900 ⇒ 00:54:22.480 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
281 00:54:22.890 ⇒ 00:54:23.420 steven: Yeah.
282 00:54:23.792 ⇒ 00:54:45.599 steven: But yeah, I know, I I really enjoy that. Like, you know, you guys also, like, you know, look at ways to, you know, help, incentivize, and everything, and and you know, keep your, you know, company and everything moving. I think that’s really, you know, really good, you know. It seems like, you know, you’ve it’s good to see, because, like just hearing from you talk, it seems like you’ve been in a position where you’ve been, you know.
283 00:54:45.680 ⇒ 00:55:00.339 steven: and then like, Oh, it’s like I would want my boss, or I want my CEO to treat me like this, you know. Now it seems like you’re kind of in this position where you know you’re kind of, you know, moving it forward with like, you know your vision of how we want it to happen to you. Now you get a push on others, and I think that’s you know.
284 00:55:00.340 ⇒ 00:55:00.980 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
285 00:55:01.040 ⇒ 00:55:02.090 steven: Yeah, so.
286 00:55:02.090 ⇒ 00:55:06.609 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel lucky I I feel lucky to do so, but it’s hard, because
287 00:55:07.095 ⇒ 00:55:16.140 Uttam Kumaran: most people run companies in a bad way, you’ll be surprised, or maybe not surprised. And you can’t look left to right and sort of
288 00:55:16.410 ⇒ 00:55:40.380 Uttam Kumaran: find people that are thinking as much as we are about like how to reward employees, because ultimately, like the problems that that manifest when you don’t do that are very deep rooted. You could go spend time on like selling, or go spend time on like doing short term things like parties or whatever like. And I I don’t think, I think fundamentally, you want people to feel
289 00:55:40.660 ⇒ 00:56:00.290 Uttam Kumaran: bought in, and there’s a number of ways in doing that. And I do think money is a core way. And I feel like it’s like there’s like a buffett quote, or whatever about like showing the incentives. And I’ll sort of show you where the money is. And so I think one of the things I really want to set up an incentive structure that works and that allows everybody to benefit. Look, we.
290 00:56:00.690 ⇒ 00:56:06.420 Uttam Kumaran: everybody’s taking a risk working at the company. And there’s varying degrees. But also.
291 00:56:06.740 ⇒ 00:56:15.500 Uttam Kumaran: I think we really confident that we’re gonna grow. And again, it’s sort of again the picking up the trash off the floor, picking the wrapper off the floor. Mentality is like what
292 00:56:16.100 ⇒ 00:56:27.190 Uttam Kumaran: what pushes people to do that if you’re just clocking in clocking out like, no matter what paycheck comes in right? So I I think about those things. I was on the other end of this stuff, so I don’t know. For me. It’s it’s like
293 00:56:27.720 ⇒ 00:56:38.740 Uttam Kumaran: I. I’m sort of surprised even in engineering, like people don’t reward engineers with any incentive based pay. It’s all sort of just like salary. And I will always surprise because I’m like.
294 00:56:39.030 ⇒ 00:56:42.620 Uttam Kumaran: How how are you gonna incentivize things to get done faster, cleaner.
295 00:56:42.730 ⇒ 00:56:59.610 Uttam Kumaran: if there’s like, if I’m getting paid as the next guy. But, like I can, I’m doing 10 times much work. So you don’t want those talks to sort of manifest right and so for me, I think I don’t know. I feel like we run the we run the company pretty transparently. There’s really like not many topics that I won’t
296 00:56:59.910 ⇒ 00:57:18.042 Uttam Kumaran: discuss with people about whether we know how to do it or not. I’ll be. I’ll be pretty open with it. And so I think this area about pay. And again, what I tell the company, too, is that the less people we have to accomplish the same mission, the more there is to go around. And so
297 00:57:18.700 ⇒ 00:57:23.469 Uttam Kumaran: that’s that’s really like how I want to articulate sort of that goal. So.
298 00:57:23.590 ⇒ 00:57:33.649 steven: Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. I really like to hear that, you know. So yeah, it. It seems like, you know, you, you’ve got a really good vision, and it’s, you know, moving quite nicely. So I I really
299 00:57:33.820 ⇒ 00:57:38.469 steven: really enjoy, you know, seeing and hearing that from you. So.
300 00:57:38.470 ⇒ 00:57:43.969 Uttam Kumaran: Appreciate it. Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. I know we’re at an hour. So thank you so much for the time
301 00:57:44.352 ⇒ 00:57:46.909 Uttam Kumaran: today. Where are you in? Are you on the West coast? By the way.
302 00:57:46.910 ⇒ 00:57:49.329 steven: I’m West Coast. Yeah, I’m in Santa Monica. So.
303 00:57:49.330 ⇒ 00:57:51.840 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. Okay, yeah, we have a few people.
304 00:57:51.950 ⇒ 00:58:04.020 Uttam Kumaran: I there, I think I may actually come to La next month. We have a few people in la, but you know, la, it’s like they’re like, I’m in. La, I’m like, you know, what? Like planet of la are you on? But
305 00:58:04.577 ⇒ 00:58:17.139 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, we have a few people there, actually, one person who’s on the analyst team just started. And we have a woman who owns marketing for us. She’s there as well, and one of our other analysts. So we have a good crew out there, so.
306 00:58:17.140 ⇒ 00:58:25.500 steven: Yeah, it’s awesome. Yeah, I I it’s it’s it’s so great out here. I really really love it. Still, I’ve never been to Austin, too. I know a lot of people have been there.
307 00:58:25.940 ⇒ 00:58:28.640 steven: I just keep on hearing great things about it. So.
308 00:58:28.640 ⇒ 00:58:30.459 Uttam Kumaran: Worth worth visiting. I mean, it’s
309 00:58:30.880 ⇒ 00:58:35.550 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not ton of like nature, but it is really amazing food.
310 00:58:36.040 ⇒ 00:58:40.579 Uttam Kumaran: And like very chill vibes like, Yeah.
311 00:58:40.580 ⇒ 00:58:46.580 steven: Here. Here’s the thing I’m from. I’m from Georgia. I I’ve been in La for about 7 years now, and
312 00:58:46.800 ⇒ 00:58:51.370 steven: I miss the barbecue. You know I I yearn for the barbecue.
313 00:58:51.370 ⇒ 00:58:58.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude when you have to visit and just like. But also it’s just like slow people are like, so nice.
314 00:58:58.860 ⇒ 00:59:05.820 Uttam Kumaran: very just like Southern, and like I’m usually like going crazy at work. And so how the rest of life be like
315 00:59:06.040 ⇒ 00:59:07.790 Uttam Kumaran: very calm. It’s
316 00:59:08.320 ⇒ 00:59:17.259 Uttam Kumaran: so wonderful. I was in New York before this. And I’ve been here now for a few years, and it’s great. It’s like the perfect balance for me. Otherwise
317 00:59:17.540 ⇒ 00:59:25.450 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like too much going on. So it’s really really lovely, I mean, of course, you know, it gets so hot
318 00:59:26.450 ⇒ 00:59:32.160 Uttam Kumaran: but otherwise I I mean, I grew up in the Bay Area. So the heat isn’t like the worst thing. But
319 00:59:32.640 ⇒ 00:59:35.620 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s really nice out here. So definitely come visit sometime.
320 00:59:35.620 ⇒ 00:59:52.069 steven: Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah. But yeah, seriously, you know, really, really love what you guys are doing. You know, I think it’s, you know, important with everything. But yeah, you know, just happy to, you know. Keep continuing talking next steps. You know, you and Robert seem like good guys so really, really excited to, you know.
321 00:59:52.490 ⇒ 00:59:58.350 steven: you know, hopefully, be given an opportunity, or, you know, see, you know what I can do to help. So really appreciate it. Thanks for reaching out.
322 00:59:58.770 ⇒ 01:00:00.319 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, thank you so much.
323 01:00:00.610 ⇒ 01:00:01.840 steven: Have a good weekend bye.
324 01:00:01.840 ⇒ 01:00:02.466 Uttam Kumaran: You, bye.